Expert believes Australian car industry won’t survive | Car Advice

Car Advice

Expert believes Australian car industry won’t survive

By George Skentzos |

With their US parents on the verge of collapse, an automotive industry expert has claimed that Australia’s car assembly industry will simply not survive the economic recession.

Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the car buyers’ Dog & Lemon Guide, has suggested that while a US government bailout plan for General Motors will rescue Holden’s parent company in order to protect American jobs, this will come at the cost of our own local industry.

Holden has already halved production at its South Australian plant and Mr Matthew-Wilson believes that this slowdown is the beginning of the end.

“Australia’s car factories are losing money on every vehicle they make. No amount of incentives from the State and Federal governments can solve this basic problem. It’s not a matter of whether they close down, but when they close down.”

Mr Matthew-Wilson believes this will be the fate of not only Holden, but Ford and Toyota in Australia as well, as their parent companies seek to trim unprofitable divisions in order to ride out the recession.

“People falsely believe that Ford is doing okay. That’s not true. American Ford’s sales are down 43 per cent in the first quarter of this year. Ford is losing billions just like GM; it’s just that Ford arranged private sector finance before the recession, so it’s not quite so obvious how serious things are.”

“Australia’s only other manufacturer, Toyota, is globally facing its first annual net loss in 59 years. How long do you think Toyota is going to put up with losing money by assembling cars in Australia?”

His perspective is that the Australian automotive industry is simply not competitive on a global scale, with a glut of new cars at bargain prices emerging from Asia while locally produced models become less relevant to international markets with a push toward smaller, more sustainable vehicles.

“The Australian government can throw $6 billion or $600 billion at these car plants, but they still won’t be economically feasible. The Australian car industry can re-focus on small cars, green cars, blue cars or red cars. None of this will make the slightest difference.”

It is his opinion that the $6 billion Australian car industry bailout plan will simply be paying the bills for a few multinational corporations, while doing nothing to solve the underlying problems and would be better spent by giving it to the affected car workers.

Finally, Mr Matthew-Wilson suggests that to be a successful car manufacturing nation requires a very large local market, a profitable export market or extremely low costs – none of which Australia has.


 
  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    WHO THE HELL IS THIS GUY WHEN HES NOT AT HOME ???????????

    quote “It is his opinion ” Nuff said!

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Not sure by who’s definition Clive Matthew-Wilson is an ‘automotive industry expert’ (he drives a 1957 Morris Oxford with a retro-fitted airbag because he claims it to be safer than a modern car).
    On this issue however, he is right. There is no way that the Australian car market is big enough to continue supporting a high-cost indigenous car manufacturing industry, even if most of it wasn’t geared to producing a class of vehicles that are no longer attracting volume buyers.

  • Wheelnut

    Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the car buyers’ Dog & Lemon Guide is a supposed Expert…?

    Well we know what an expert is: Ex meaning he’s a has been; spert – meaning over a short period of time.. therefore there was a short period of time at which Mr Clive Matthew-Wilson was good at whatever it was he did

    He is most likely an academic with no real experience in the Automotive Industry – working for a car company etc but believes because he has a university degree [not to mention a hyphenated name which makes his sound as though he is from the British aristocracy] that he is an Authority on anything and everything.

    I mean look at it he is the editor of the “Dog & Lemon” guide a publication which as its name indicates focuses solely on the negative points of a car.. [I wonder if The Realist and The Elitist are contributors]

  • Vince

    I agree. We need to adpot NZ’s car setup, full import and pretty much whatever you want. Sorry but we don’t have the population or the low manufacturing costs to keep it viable. Maybe we can get some real cars in this country without paying the the huge government luxury tax + everyother stupid tax it has on cars.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Anyone with a hyphenated last name is a t**lshine anyway!

    Sooooooooooo I hear you all saying the same ,who the hell is this guy anyway,well here you go!

    “Clive Matthew-Wilson was born in 1956 in Wellington, New Zealand, the son of a wealthy local businessman. Despite being largely educated at exclusive private schools, Matthew-Wilson found academic life too difficult and left school at the age of 15. After several years traveling, he became a motor mechanic. He ended up running his own garage before becoming bored and experimenting with a number of careers, including advertising, songwriting, jewellery, computers, publishing and public relations. He eventually became a professional writer, and published works include The Information Effect, The Turners & Growers Natural Foods Cookbook & The Dog & Lemon Guide.”"

    AHHHHA,so I guess we should all believe him based on those credentials,come on …………….

    Pleeeeeeeeease give me a break,expert !!!!! At what?

    Would love to see Holden and Fords response to that load of BOLLOCKS!

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Glad you googled him BM (+)(+), I was going to suggest that. Yes, he is quite an eccentric and his ‘expert’ label is probably self-anointed.
    But on the subject of the future of the carmaking industry in Australia he is correct.

  • http://integra holstein hore ).( ).(

    Hes right, maybe one can survive , guess ford , building small cars , goodnight big 6 and V8 its all over .

    No amount of screeming and ranting can change the numbers , fuel costs will keep rising , economy cars are the future .

  • Wheelnut

    IMHO Holden and Ford mightn’t be as Profitable as Toyota but Holden and Ford are more viable and have far more potential than Toyota particularly in terms of their parent companies Future

    Yes the Falcon and Commodore are Unique to Australia However; their unique-ness means that not only can the platforms on which they are built can become the basis of some more practicle versatile projects in the future
    But the cars themselves can be sold overseas and become a welcome addition to the lineup of their overseas relatives.

    Both the Falcon and the Commodore have received rave reviews from international journalists and car enthusiasts on websites similar to Car Advice – its just that the ignorant arrogant narrow-minded people in charge of their parent companies are unable or refuse to realise how good the aussie cars are.. or they know how good they are and are scared that it will show how inferior the USA made cars really are.

    Whereas Toyo-Oz are building 2 cars which are identical in every way to cars that are being built elsewhere in the world; They’re not building a car which is unique and can become a unique addition to the line up of related comapnies in other countries etc
    In a way It’s just like Mitsubishi-Oz they wanted to and they had the ability to make an all new [RWD] car that could be sold overseas but Tokyo said No.

    My point is If Toyota start experiencing financial problems etc – which it appears they are starting to [they arent immune to the financial crisis afterall] why would they continue to build a car in Australia thats being built in Japan – given that duplication and replication of identical cars in factories that are in close porximity of one another is one of the reasons GM is in so much trouble.

  • Ryan

    Toyota will most likely survive, Holdena and Ford defintely won’t. Which is a blessing really…

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    hahaha Captain you turned them into HOT CROSS BUNS ,I guess E is for Easter,hope you had a good one .

    Back on topic………….I dont think anyone knows the out come of the Australian Car Industry and my guess is its all been said before over previous down turns in the world economy.

    Saw a great video on Ford Australia the other day and they have been through worse than this.

    A bit more positivity and less negativity would help from these self proclaimed experts!

    Ill quote more expert information from Clive Matthew-Wilson

    “Matthew-Wilson is blunt: “Only three types of people buy new cars: old people, because they’re buying their last car and want something nice; organisations, like hospital boards, city councils and police; and yuppies, who know full-well it’s going to bleed money from day one but who do it anyway.”

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Wheelnut, no argument from me about the excellence of the Falcon and Commodore platforms, but the reality is that they are now orphans since their American masters decided not to use them for big-volume models in North America. They will see out the next few years of declining volumes, then be replaced by front wheel drive ‘world’ platforms, which are unlikely to be built in Australia. And all this assumes that the ‘motherships’ are still in business.

  • Wheelnut

    Ryan – do you honestly/seriously believe that if Holden and /or Ford close and leave Australia that Toyota will somehow remain?

    Because if Holden and/or Ford do close it will mean that the local parts suppliers will have to increase their prices to Toyota. Which will then mean either one of two things either:
    Toyota will increase the price of the Camry/Aurion; making it even less value for mney than what it is now..
    Or they too will pull out and continue to make the Camry/Aurion overseas as they do already.

    Now which do you think is more likely to happen?

  • Wheelnut

    Ryan – then there’s the fact that if/when olden and /or Ford close..
    There will be approx 20-30;000 people out of work who were directly employed by or associated with Holdne and Ford.

    Thats 20-30ooo less people who can afford to: go out for dinner or a movie; buy a new televison or furniture; travel or stay in a hotel; build or buy a house….

    Which will mean a severe downturn in those industries most likely another 20-30l000 [initially].. and which will subseqently continue.

    In the end their will be so many 100s of 1000s of people out of work and reliant on Centrelink that the Federal Gummint will be forced to increase centrelinks budget and maybe even offer more stimulus packages etc
    Therefore; inorder to recover the money they will increase income tax and other charges.. which will mean those who are lucky enough to have a job will be paying so much in tax that they probably won’t be able to afford a new imported car either.

    Most people will probably only be able to afford an old Ford or Holden

    Which is ironic really because that would really annoy the people on here with negative attitudes toward Holden and Ford [most of whom favour Toyota]
    People who not only degrade Holden and Ford at any opportunity without substantial factual evidence.. because of their supposed inferiority or longevity etc.. But also
    seem to think that because they don’t work in the Auto industry that they won’t be affected….. Idiots

  • Wheelnut

    One of the reasons GM kept the Holden name and have kept the Factory Running for so long is inorder to maintain a presence in the Pacific Region.. [juat as they did with Opel and Vauxhall] the same applies to Ford Australia.

    Toyota already has a presence in the region as they have a factories in nearby Thailand Malaysia and of course Japan.
    Where they can/do build a FWD car similar/identical to the Camry Aurion.

    Therefore; if Toyo-Oz closed Toyota wouldn’t lose one of ther most popular Family Sedans or the experience etc Toyo-oz have to offer [if any]

    Not only that but the Holden and Ford-Oz factories are more modern more productive and more flexible than a number of factories in the US which I believe is another positive for the “dinosaurs” future.. plus our cars are more practical versatile reliable not to mention better looking than some of the cars desinged/built in the USA

    Having said that it would be debtrimental to the Australian economy if any of the remaining 3 local operations were to close

  • SamR

    Wheelnut, everything you say does not matter in the end.

    Ford and Holden are just not profitable, are making the wrong cars and their parent companies are broke.

    They only exist because the Govt buys their cars when they really should be buying smaller cars.

    Govt assistance and support is only paying for highly paid union jobs and causing everyone else in Australia to pay for it.

    The days when a commodore or falcon were a family car are long long gone.

  • The Original Tom

    meh. Some of you are attacking this guy’s character because you disagree with his sad and unpopular opinion.

    But he might just be correct. Do your own informed research, don’t discount someone just because you don’t agree with them.

    There are many reasons for our local manufacturing to fail and these have been expounded over and over by many motoring journos, not just this “eccentric” as you call him.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Thanks for your OPINION Sam…………

  • topdog

    I think theres one thing that nobody has thought of or said anything about and that is holden may not afford to build cars here cause of labour costs.So why dont thay just do what every other car maker dose and build them any were else in the world just join the band wagon there would be nothing wrong with commondores built in thailand just as bmw and others or anywere then thay would be built way cheaper or holden will be making money on them instead of losing money on them

  • Ryan

    To Wheelnut,

    Thankfully Australia has social welfare, which will enable those ex-employees to have some standard of life.
    Not ideal of course, I’m simply saying that motorists would be better off without commodore’s and falcons on the road….

  • http://integra willatime

    Top dog thats probably how it will turn out epicas badged as commerdores , nice smooth SMALL 6 , tip top groovy handling ,a ready made diesel , or maybe torana as where all downsizing in this brave new world .

  • Wheelnut

    That may be so Tom but one of the biggest contributing factors is peoples negativity and uncertainty in relation to the Local Car manufacturers

    Ther are so many people out there who are thinking/saying [both publicly and privately] that Holden and Ford are going to close.. which then infliences peoples decisions as to whetehr or not to Buy a Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon because they are unsure if they will be around or if parts etc will be available.

    So in away the ones who will be equally responsible if Holden and Ford do leave Australia will be The average Australian Motorist because unfortunately the national patriotic aussie can do spirit etc has died.

    As I have said there are a number of people overseas who are impressed with the Falcon and Commodore and would love to get their hands on one but there are a number of Aussies who don’t see it.

    As Janis Joplin said “You don’t know what you got till it’s gone”

  • High Beam

    If there where no Commodores on the road the road toll would be much lower. My mate is a Policeman and in the force commodores are known as “tree and pole magnets” !! Its so true……..

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    quote “I’m simply saying that motorists would be better off without commodore’s and falcons on the road…”

    Based on what Ryan ?

    Yet another opinion…………greattttttttttt !

  • driver

    streuwth

  • High Beam

    Anyway, enough jokes………its almost official and will be announced later in the year that Holden WILL shut down. GM will become a small auto maker in the USA only as they will sell their European brands and Holden will be sold off or shut down.

    Ford will remain and will build various vehicles off the Focus platform for themselves and Mazda. Ford will also announce a large export program for the I6 engine which will keep the Geelong plant running for a long time.

  • http://integra willatime

    Bla bla its not even an australian owned industry , the bloody yanks and the japs will shut it tomorrow if the numbers dont add up .

    So our crummers and falcs come from thai/korea/ spare parts will be available just as they are for kias , hondas , mazdas etc etc

  • http://www.AUSringers.com Liam

    The world will still revolve if Australia doesn’t have a car industry.

    What the Gov and industry need to be doing is working out what all these workers will be doing next. I’m guessing not many assembly hall workers have the IT knowledge to help build Ruddnet. I dare say it’s time they started to learn.

  • Alex

    This wouldn’t be happening if they made some decent small cars!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    hahaha…….. hey you guys….can you tell us where your getting your crystal balls from ??

    Love reading your facts !

  • Alex

    Look at any recent Australian Car sales statistics and you’ll see neither ford nor holden are in the number one spot. How’s that for facts?

  • http://integra spade

    We are a mirror of the US , making big lazy 6 and V8 jobs while the rest of the world was moving quickly into small turbo petrol and diesel cars with fuel efficiency .

    Now the down turn hits and their pants ar well and truly down at the ankles , too late .

  • Wheelnut

    Ryan says: I’m simply saying that motorists would be better off without commodore’s and falcons on the road….

    So you think that if/when Holden and Ford do close.. that all the hundreds of thousands of: FJs FXs FBs FCs EKs EHs HGs HRs HTs HKs HQs HXs HZs LCs LXs LHs VBs VCs VHs VKs VLs VNs VRs VSs VTs VUs VEs etc not to mention the XLs XMs Xps XRs XTs XWs XYs XAs XBs XCs XDs XFs XGs EBs EFs ELs BAs BFs FGs will all evapourate/disintegrate into thin air?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Thats statistics Alexs,you just stated that yourself!

    How is that saying Holden and Ford are gone ? mmmmmmmmm

  • http://integra spade

    Most of those old bombs are well and truly gone to the nackers yard .

    Next to go the current bunch , when fuel skyrockets as it will .

  • Wheelnut

    Alex – Holden and Ford ,mightn’t be number one ATM. However; Toyota have only been number one for the last 3-5 years.. that means that they weren’t number one in Australia for the first 45 years that they have been in Australia yet they’re still here…. so what’s your point?

  • http://integra axel

    There were many ford and Gm factories in the uk in the seventies , today non , its inevitable . Cheap labour , big production runs thats the key to survival , and we cant meet that equation in australia .

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Oh really Spade…………another opinion !

    Based on that Im back to finish watching TG ,thinking of that magic day ill be able to by a new M3 for 50k cause the Government would have disintegrated the luxury car tax and tariffs cause the local car market is dead……..pppfttttttttt hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Sooooooooooooo glad we’re not trusting our local car market to the hands of the young ones that seem to have an opinion on here,one would have thought they were on the board of Holden and Ford in Australia knowing so much ;)

  • Andrew M

    QUOTE……………….

    “Mr Matthew-Wilson suggests that to be a successful car manufacturing nation requires a very large local market, a profitable export market or extremely low costs – none of which Australia has.”

    Australia has had none of these attributes within the auto industry. We arent talking about a 10 year old industry that popped up in boom time but one that has had a 100 years (well not far off) of existence under its belt, and over those years aussie wages have never been cheaper than chineese, also never had a big domestic market, and certainly never had a profitable export program worth spruking about.
    This Guy is clearly the kind that places his bet once he sees a horse take the lead. His reasoning is very weak.
    The Auto industry is stuffed world wide. There are actually more shutdowns taking place in countrys where manufacturing should theoreticlly be more viable than OZ

    The only thing that has changed over the years is Australias welcoming arms to everyones elses products. Sure, whats wrong with free trade????? nothing i suppose except when noone else accepts our products with the same fair treatment.

    Who’s throwing the line around that only toyota will be left???
    Toyota will be the first to jump off the ship if anyone.
    Through tough economic times things tend to reform to basics. Destruction takes place in the reverse order of construction, or should I say last on first off.
    The biggest boomers through the good times are the biggest fallers come the bad times.

  • http://integra spade

    Hissy fits over the history of the oz market is pathetic , history means nothing in todays world .

    Tariffs pretty low now ,not going to make much diff to price m3 in the future .

  • Wheelnut

    Axel its cheaper to build a car in Australia than it is in the USA ATM – I mean the American Auto Workers at GM in particular receive approx $40 per hour + annual leave etc not to mention the retirement health care benefits.. which they got when the Bush Snr Administration forced the Car Companies to sign an agreement with the UAW inorder to end a long ruunning strike.

    It got to the point that former GM CEO Bob Lutz said if the UAW refuse to play ball we will have to look at other options which includes the possibility of pulling out ogf the US and making cars overseas in more modern more flexible more productive plants such as Holden and Opel

    Now the American Auto Workers are refusing to take a pay cut whereby they forego the health care benefits and will ony receive about $20-25per hour [for producing the same poor quality cars that they do].. They don’t seem to realise that a job is better than no job

  • the fact

    its worse than you think…wheelnut.toyota is outselling 2 dinosaurs combined most of last year and almost in this year by just a few cars .these 2 dinosaurs and blindness bogans days are numbered and soon will be over ed.here last month result.Top 10 makes, March 2009:
    Rank Make Sales % Share
    1 Toyota 16,608 22%
    2 Holden 9188 12.1%
    3 Ford 7570 10%
    4 Mazda 6116 8.1%
    5 Hyundai 4907 6.5%
    6 Mitsubishi 4694 6.2%
    7 Nissan 4396 5.8%
    8 Subaru 3415 4.5%
    9 Honda 3349 4.4%
    10 Volkswagen 2522 3.3%
    stop dreaming….2 dinosaurs are finished.

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    You missed quite a few models there in your rant.
    I had an XH a while back and was dissapointed not to see the great old Longreach not mentioned

  • Wheelnut

    Clive Matthew Wilson says: “Holden has already halved production at its South Australian plant and Mr Matthew-Wilson believes that this slowdown is the beginning of the end.”

    A number of other car companies around the world have cut back production at a number of their factories [including Toyota ]so does that mean its the beginning of the end for them too?

  • AAA

    Even a primary school kid knows that people aren’t buying large cars when petrol is expensive and the economy is bad. Don’t need an MBA grad from Harvard to tell us that.

  • Tack

    Well, I don’t mind at all.
    If everyone can get oversea car cheaper, why we buy Holden or Ford?
    Small Holden cars are from Korea anyway.
    It is simply we follow supply and demand.
    Not many people like V8 race.
    And it is clearly Holden and Ford can not provide cars which we want to.

  • omgwot

    Who is this is this bow tie wearing git with a hyphenated name? Dog and lemon? Bet its a spotted bow tie too blah blah

  • fasthonda

    I hope eventually everthing that Australians buy will be made overseas and many services outsourced as well,all foods,all cars etc would be cheaper if made overseas.When our Australian dollar drops to 35 cent American(because we don’t produce over 90% of our goods and services and have very high unemployment),we can buy a Matiz for say,$25,000 Won’t that fabulous? Hey at least those type of teeny weeny cars will save fuel and produce less CO2 oops…. I forgot to mention petrol would be $3 a litre because of the exchange rate.Some of the comments on this topic are simply dismissive and don’t even acknowledge the human consequences of these factories permanently shutting down.
    As for this so called expert,he doesn’t suprise me at all.Have you noticed all the Climate change ‘experts’ coming out of the wood work?These “experts” love to make BIG attention seeking claims so that hopefully,they will create some following to further bolster their own self importance and influence governments and people in general.

  • SamR

    Really, who buys a Commodore or Falcon these days?

    1. Government
    They feel they have to buy them to support the industry

    2. Fleets
    They feel they need big cars, they don’t 99% of the time.

    3. A small group of enthusiasts who buy XR6 Turbos and Commodore sports models, no women here.

    Who else? no-one!!!

  • Frenchie

    So if the m3 and manufactured goods that are produced in Australia move offshore. What becomes of the economy?
    Look at the UK at what they manufacture. Since the GFC they have nothing to turn to and has resulted in their economy more than likely to stay in reccession the longest out of all OECD nations.

  • High Beam

    GM speeding towards bankruptcy……..BYE BYE HOLDEN…………..yipppeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • Glenn

    To High Beam and all you other clowns that get off on wanting the industry to die I dare you to stand outside say Holden or Fords plants with a banner and chant the words that you cant wait to see the plant shut down and tens of thousands of jobs go placing these people under unbelievable pressure as bread winners for their families. YOU WOULD BE RIPPED APART FOR YOUR PATHETIC VIEW, there is no place for you on this web site or any other you miserable poor excuse for an Australian.

  • Pious

    I’m with the guys who think this wouldnt be happening if they made good small cars. Really, that is where it is at the last 10 years or so, that and the mid sized SUV. The family sedan is soooo 70′s, it wouldnt matter how good it was, a lot of people will want something else, no matter how practical the sedan/wagon is.

  • Supply & Demand

    If all it takes to be considered an expert on the auto industry is to release a list of Dogs and Lemons I’m going to consider a career change.

  • Brett

    The guy is right; no expertise is needed to see the writing on the wall for the Australian car manufacturers.

  • Mega

    Just let the industry close its factories and let the government give the workers extra pay-outs. We don’t need a car industry. I would never buy an australian car that we have made so far (short of maybe the XR6T).

    Expert or not, Mathew-wilson makes a few valid points. Labour is not cheap here, our export market is not profitable (we sell holdens for less overseas than here FFS), and our local market is small and sales are declining. Even Japan is having the same problem and many of the most popular vehicles are now made/assembled in Thailand (Honda Civic) and other low-wage countries.

  • Cracker Barrel

    In all honesty i think the closure of Ford and Holden(GM) would be great for the world environment!

    Econ 101 easily shows that the US (and Australia) certainly do not have a Comparative Advantage (ability to produce a particular good at a lower opportunity cost than another country/person) in the Auto industry.

    People need to stop letting there Ego of “homegrown” products get in the way real efficiencies. For every Falcon/Commodore produced the world has forgone a reliable/efficient/productive Japanese vehicle <<– Think about how many earth hours are going to be needed to offset that ????

  • XR6T GOD

    I’d like to see these facts everyone is coming up with…..GM and FORD will shut up shop in OZ this year, were do you get this bull dust from, both parent companies are is alot of trouble, yes, but the amount of money that is invested in Holden and Ford OZ is huge, shutting up shop will not be the answer. I think down sizing is. Ford building the Focus is the right thing to do and they are well advanced on that, holden on the other hand are in alot more trouble. Yes we can’t keep building large cars, but the industry has had harder times. I’m sure we all don’t want to see ppl losing there jobs, the ppl on here that can’t wait to see this happen are un-intelligent idiots and very un-australian. I have a XR6T and is in my opinion the best build OZ car, it will be a shame to see it go, but it will. I’m looking forward to a FPV OZ build Focus. Lets be positive ppl, enough of the negativity.

  • QwKEddie

    For everyone wanting the closure of Ford and Holden
    I SINCERLEY hope that the industry/business that you are in also folds up and is moved or outsourced out of Australia.I have mates that work at Ford and Holden.
    I would LOVE to see pompous people like RYAN,SAMr,MEGA,HIGHBEAM,TACK etc lose their jobs and have their families out on the street.
    Should we lie down and die because Australia doesn’t have wages of 50 cents an hour?
    Yep,it seems we have treacherous people in our mist that want jobs to go overseas rather than remain in Australia.
    I believe treason use to be punishable by death?

  • the fact

    well….you cannot survive by producing poor quality fleet cars only for local market and no one else on earth wanted. you are finished without world class high quality cars.years after years of lemons the smart people have enough of them.only few blindness people trying ignore the reality.
    2 dinosaurs are finished.

  • Tek

    “So if the m3 and manufactured goods that are produced in Australia move offshore. What becomes of the economy?”

    Um, it’ll probably get better! Australia hasn’t relied on it’s manufactured goods since the second world war. Manufactured goods account for 1/10th of the economy and 1/5th of exports. Australia relies on mining and natural resources for exports, full stop. The dollar goes up and down based on other countries demand for our natural resources.

    The sooner GM sell Holden and Ford sell Ford Australia the better. Maybe some visionary company can buy them up at a discount rate and take them into the future (maybe into a Tesla Motors-style company). So long as GM and Ford US are in charge they will never have Australia’s interest at heart.

  • Andrew M

    Fasthonda,
    you beat me to it in painting the real picture of what will follow.

    If we start sending our major manufacturing industries over seas one after the other our country becomes worthless. Our dollar will become worthless to a point where it will eventually cost us more to purchase imported crap, than it was costing us to buy our own products when they were made here.
    Im not just talking about the auto industry but also food and whitegoods (of the non toyota type I mean).

    Anyone care to hazard a guess at how many jobs are related to the entire manufacturing industry???
    The whole world revolves around construction and manufacturing.

    This forecast has nothing to do with what ford holden and toyota do or dont make in OZ nor how good or poor of quality it may be.
    Those that harp that line simply dont have a clue

  • Jason@Holden

    As a Holden employee, can I suggest we whoa the truck for a minute. Firstly, what constitutes an expert? So CMW has published a car book. What else? What data is he basing his views on when happily sounding the death knell for Australian car makers? Has he worked for a car company, been on a car launch or spoken to our executives? No. Does he have access to company business plans? No. Our finances? No. Does he even live in Australia? Um, a Kiwi. So what gives this one person the right to call ‘time’ on an entire industry with more than 60,000 jobs at stake? Shameless self-promotion at our expense is repugnant and should be held up for what it is. For the record, Holden has had the best selling car in the country for 13 consecutive years and we’re not going anywhere. We’re in there fighting in a pretty tough global environment. And luckily, we won’t be discouraged by bystanders.

  • Millatime

    Speaking with the owner of a very large motor group recently, he owns dealerships representing nine different manufacturers, his view, and one shared throughout the industry, is that it’s only a question of when, not if, we lose the next Australian manufacturer.

  • http://bent Millatime

    So the question is, who’s up next?

    The blokes at the Alamo fought hard Jason@Holden, but it didn’t do them much good…

  • Golfschwein

    I don’t believe anything this Camry fan has ever written. Why start now?

  • Lukaas

    This “expert” is not really stating something new or something hard to believe given the situation(s).

    Just want to clarify why it is more logical to manufacture overseas.
    [1] Australian labourers generally earn more than your typical white-collar worker, in comparison to USA or everywhere else really. Here, the blue collar workers have unions or some other bodies or government laid policies that allow them to be “well paid”, again this is comparison to other countries. Automotive industry is made up roughly 80% blue collar workers, 20% white collar workers. And thats being generous towards white collar, the ratio is higher towards blue collar workers in general.

    So why pay someone $25-$30 AUD an hour if you can pay someone, lets say in China, $10~$15 (AUD equivalent) to produce the same car.

    To change the blue collar policies and salaries and match other countries, is to basically re-structure Australia itself. We live the way we do because of this current setup… with it changed, everything changes. Basically, Australia is what it is today because of blue collar workers having same or greater income than most white collar workers.

    In comparison to Ford and Toyota, Holden is in greater strife due to GM going bankrupt. Australia-unique RWD platform is one reason why Holden doesnt look so good, as most of these cars are designed for the Australian market.
    Ford’s opt to the smaller market is a good start, but will struggle in its first stages due to the recession.
    Toyota, is in trouble too, some people here say the Camry is produced in other countries, which is correct. However the Aurion is manufactured here. Believe it or not, Thailand and Australia is technically hand in hand as they cover ASIA pacific and Middle East in terms of market.
    I can see cut back on staff, or down sizing or reduced work hours, which is currently implemented for all 3 companies (ford, holden, toyota) but simply folding the plant here and moving isnt as “wise” as it sounds… the investment Toyota has made on the local plant has been great and Toyota Australia has proven they are successful… barring the last 18 months or so…

    The ONLY way to get out of this recession is to basically put confidence back to the consumer, as recession feeds on it self, the more people get scared they will lose their job, the greater the chances they DO lose their jobs.

  • http://bent Millatime

    Golfschwein

    I am surprised at you, normally your post are insightful and intelligent, are you having a bad day?

    I am far from a Camry fan. Read any of my posts, the most recent as they relate to a certain white goods manufacturer are on the story “Ford improves FG safety & fuel economy”. You’ll find this in the last 100 Posts.

  • BJ

    Jason@Holden; that’s a nice load of spin. Do you really think that anyone falls for that rubbish?

    Fight as hard as you want; but you cannot hide from the fact that GM is nearing a court-controlled administration and Holden’s very survival is on the line.

  • http://bent Millatime

    Jason@Holden: If the Commodore has been No. 1 for 13 years, why are Holden losing so much money? Giving cars away to retain a particular positiion in the market is now coming back to haunt them.

    There are only 2 outcomes for GM.

    The most likely is bankruptcy, which means goodbye Holden.

    The other is a massive government backed restructuring. Selling off what can be sold and closing down what can’t.
    The aim will be a core business built around American jobs in the US. Holden have been losing money for years. You do the math.

    Holden will not see 2010.

  • CB

    You can blame our unions for much of the low productivity, and fostering a culture of laziness. Working for an engineering company I’ve been present when strikes have been called for ridiculous reasons at steel plants, maintenance workshops, underground mines, and docks, throughout the country. And I still remember years ago when a union rep at Port Kembla proudly told me how they could hold BHP Steel to ransom if they walked off the job. I’ve been physically threatened by coal mining Union reps when I asked why most of their sickies and strikes occurred on prominent dates like Melbourne Cup day.

    A lot of the people here complain about the American Auto Unions – perhaps you need to look in your own back yard first…

  • gearboxdawg

    The Detroit contagion has spread to Australia. GM and Ford need to take drastic decisions to cut their production and cut their losses. Holden and Ford Australia are not sacred cows even if its Australia’s strategic industries.

    After years of neglect by the parent US company which focused on gas guzzling SUV and trucks, something has to give it. Pare down the local operations or prepare for a firesale like what they have done to Volvo and Saab.
    The purse strings are tightening in Detroit, Obama will only give out taxpayers money if there is a strong business case to support these big 3 autos.

  • Pious

    well, whether it’s true or not, a cynic might observe that :-
    (a) the public awareness of “Dog and Lemon Guide” has today increased at least tenfold; and
    (b) Mathew-Wilson is described (in wikipedea) as a mechanic/writer. Does this mean he is an “expert” for the purposes of the article? Until I looked, I thought (from the title to the article)that he must have been an economist/financier.
    Dont get me wrong, I think there is probably truth in what he says, but “expert”? That’s just wrong, really.

  • the fact

    not really matter holden can built 50,000 commodores or 200,000 commodores a year,the only problem is the people are not buying it.
    its all came down to mismanagement of holden.we can talk about the product activity when we can built high quality world class cars and can export them to the world.now…not….what you can do with these poor quality fleet cars sitting in the yard??holden have a chance to lift the game but they ignored the reality.interestingly they tried with that 4 cylinder vectra once and failed that one too even in the boom economic time.now they are saying Korean designed 4 cylinder car to be built here….sorry…that not going to happened.its all too late.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Gee I hear Qantas is about to sack 1800 people more miss management ?

  • Andrew M

    The Fact,
    perhaps holden should seek some advice off of toyota as to what they are also doing with their paddocks full of vehicles that no one is buying.

  • Shane

    mmmmm, it does not take an expert to take this assumption. It is an easy assumption to make at best, however I believe in particular Holden and Ford can survive if allowed to do so. The parent companies need to wake up and streamline their range to a global platform (I know this is apparently in the process). As it has been touched by others, Holden and Ford make damn good large cars and if offered on a global platform it could offer so much more. Without a doubt I believe the Commodore and Falcon are the best large cars offered under their parent companies, Ford NA or GM do not make a large car to really rival them. Therefor they need to stop shunning the Aussie cars and embrace them, use them as their GLOBAL large car. If this method was adopted we will continue to see our cars manufactured in Australia.

  • Golfschwein

    Millatime, the Dogs and Lemons Guide offers such depressing a-nal-ysis (had to do that to get past the auto-moderator) of all vehicles other than Toyota Camrys and Corollas, that the only choice available to Vern and Shirley would appear these.

    No mention of head gaskets, crunching synchros, peeling trim…nothing.

    He rates nothing more than a sensationalist stooge, in my book.

  • Frontman

    Yay lets hope this guy is right!! Actually lets hope all motoring manufacturers who are propped up by the governments (be it by handout or political policies) are allowed to crash!!! To all of you who think that the 6.1 bil package (with enough strings attached to frighten a puppeteer) is the wrong thing and that we should all be driving imported vehicles, take a look at their country of origin and the import policies in place there!

    Gee Holden and Ford are building cars the public don’t want… Funny how they are still in the top five sellers. yes their respective numbers have dropped. That is as result of two main underlying factors, 1/ Government policy (on all three tiers) is bending for more 4cyl vehicles in a misguided green credential attempt. 2/ the previously classed medium sized vehicles are now large cars! SO where as before the family person looking for a family car discounted the Accord and Mazda 6 as to small, they are now as big as VZ’s and BA’s so there is more choice in the LARGE car market. Woops sorry! the Accord and the 6 are only mediums aren’t they? That’s what marketing tell us but not the tape measure or fuel consumption readings.
    Oh hang on 6 and Accord aren’t fleet hacks? Well guess again. The largest percentage of those vehicles are going to Novated lease packages! ie where once a company had a fleet car, the employee now gets the choice and has to worry about the ongoing costs. (not the company accountant) and the number 1 volume seller in the country concentrates all of it’s model line on fleet markets! So i guess it’s wrong to have a fleet bias in your model line. If you looked seriously at what a lot of you wrote, you would understand why Australia is becoming the laughing stock of the developed nations!

  • The Realist

    If high wages produced high productivity that’s fine – but when high wages produces the lowest productivity in the OECD it’s a problem.

    Oh well – it was fun seeing the husband and wife rant and rave…

  • http://skyline The Salesman says. “Shine on you crazy diamond”

    Some other thing “EXPERTS” have said
    “The world is flat”
    “Man will never fly or go into space”
    “There is no water on Mars”
    “Dan is right about everything”
    We have an expert for everything now days. This guy is about as qualified to comment on the Australian car industry as I am to be a pilot a plane. Yes production is down. Yes GM could go bust. But that just means the good assets will be bought and the bad debt will be left behind. Australia will always have a market for locally produced cars.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    hahaha Salesman , this thread seems to be full of experts with their opinions and assumptions .

    Quote “Oh well – it was fun seeing the husband and wife rant and rave…”

    See what happens when you assume Realist you get it ALLLLLLLL WRONG……… ;)

  • the fact

    stop dreaming… top five sellers and still losing money?you do your own match and get the reality check.80% of them went to fleets at rock bottom prices.that’s why sell more cars still losing money.smart private buyers spent their hard earned money on high quality world class cars not on that craps.

  • Tommy

    “Expert believes Australian car industry won’t survive”

    GM have been told by congress in the US no more bailout money and to file for bankrupsy. When you can buy better built and performing cars from overseas much cheaper than the crap we sell here why the hell would the local industry survive? It’s had over 50 years to get it’s act together. Let them die I say!

    It’s no surprise our local auto industry is doomed.

    And before anyone says but its cheaper to make a car in asia blah blah blah. I’ll just say one thing. Germany! Enough said.

  • Buck

    I hope your right Salesman but I suspect Holden’s quality control problems will come back to haunt them if there’s an attempt to sell the brand to another manufacturer WHEN not if, GM go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

    We live in a new dawn of extreme financial realism where capital is a commodity in estremly short supply.

    With Holden’s chequered past its hard to see anyone coming up with another billion or anywhere near that to update the VE.

    Its somewhat foolish to try and predict the future in these extremly challanging times, but only a very brave person would be counting on Holden being around to honour their warranty issues over the next three years, so it beats me why the FG Falcon isn’t outselling it by a comfortable margin as on the face of it, its a better more modern product with a reasonable chance of being there to honour your warranty, supply service and spare parts.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Bet all YOU experts are out there telling YOUR mates that maybe considering buying a Holden or Ford not too cause YOU as an expert know for fact they’re both gone so whats the point……..So what are you advising them to buy…. just out of interest ?

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    If you assume you make an Ass-out-of-u-and-me. Allot of these comments are driven by fear of the unknown. This guy is just being outrageous to promote his site. I wonder how many hits he has had. There is no solid evidence to back up his expert opinion.

  • http://bent Millatime

    Golfschwein, thank goodness, as your post @ 12:17 immediately followed 2 of mine I thought you were referring to me :-)

    I doubt I could think of a greater insult than to call someone a Camry fan..

  • Pious

    well, I’m not gonna be left behind. I’m looking at the sky, so I’m an expert climatologist. When I look at youporn, I will become an expert gyneacologist (I’d better learn how to spell it first)

  • max

    f you assume you make an Ass-out-of-u-and-me. Allot of these comments are driven by fear of the unknown. This guy is just being outrageous to promote his site. I wonder how many hits he has had. There is no solid evidence to back up his expert opinion. – Salesman

    Have you ever read his book? Its not a bad read actually and pretty much on the money.

    BTW he has been saying this for quite a few years now, there was a post on this very site last year as well, fair bit has transpired in that year, and it all supports his views.

    There is nothing wrong with our big cars, but consider this;

    Their sales numbers have nearly halved in the last 10 years. Yet over all, new car sales are up around 30%

    Falcon has no exports, Holden has lost export sales, not sure about Toyota.

    RWD is not vogue(green and cost)and has been put aside by both GM and Ford in terms of future development.

    Australia is a small market.

    380 went over a year ago.

    GM is dead as we know it, Ford is also in trouble, as is Toyota.

    Its pretty simple, you spend X dollars on design and engineering of the model, amortize that on a unit basis over 5 years(whatever) and then do the same with fixed costs(these do not change), your profit is then built into each unit.

    But then, you lose 15% in domestic sales, 30% in exports(G8 etal)and find you are having to discount your price to low levels to sell the bloody thing. There goes your profit, those fixed costs and platform dev costs are not changing on a unit basis, in fact, as you sell less units they are actually increasing per unit as sales have reduced from anticipated levels.

    It makes NO difference if the VE, Falcon and Camry/Aurion are in the top 5 sellers, they have lost the sales volume required to make money. I would suggest that each unit is making a loss at this point. Its a small market, and export levels are simply not high enough.

    The so called expert is actually right, you guys are just ignoring reality.

  • Jimmy James

    Mr Dog and Lemon may be a tool, but he’s right about this.

    I will take no joy in him being proven right, nor will thousands of other Australians employed either directly or indirectly by the industry.

    But its going to happen and when it does, expect a media and political sh*tstorm the likes of which you have never seen before.

    Concerned faces, furrowed brows, and a million experts offering could haves and should haves and why didn’ts.

    Can’t wait to see Mel from Channel 7′s sunrise program pretend to understand the issues and then utter ‘wow’ when her brain has reached maximum capacity and her eyes glaze over.

    JJ

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Let me guess Max, you know someone that drives a 1957 Morris Oxford with a retro-fitted airbag and he also claims it to be safer than a modern car ;)

    Remind me again how this guy is an expert ? Perhaps he should
    have Patented his Morris and sold the rights to GMH,maybe that would have helped them out based on HIS OPINION ….hahahaha

  • BJ

    He doesn’t need to be any expert of any kind to see what is happening. And even if he isn’t an expert that doesn’t mean he is wrong.

    And why is his opinion less valid than yours Bavarian Missile?

  • max

    BM, the guy can drive whatever he wants, its his money and his drive and yes, HIS OPINION.

    I just presented the facts in my post above, these facts happen to support the view held by a lot of people, right or wrong.

    As to your comment regarding GM taking advice from him, Listen, GM could have taken advice from Scooby Doo and they would probably be better off than they are now :)

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    “Have you ever read his book? Its not a bad read actually and pretty much on the money”.

    Are you sure? How could anyone know what is going to happen. It is best guess for everyone at this stage.

    Reality is an individual perception by a normal person can not be defined by others. How do you preserve normal, can you define normal? So he has been saying it for years? He has only voiced a common opinion known by most that yes, GM is on the brink of reconstruction/bankruptcy. Who did not know that? So why report what we already know. Now a true expert would be able to tell us something we don’t know. That would make for interesting reading. This “report” is a regurgitation of old information as is your comment. Do you really think we don’t know what’s happening in the market? I don’t need this guys book to tell me what I already know.

  • Bret

    Max, I thought it was Daffy Duck was in charge of GM??

  • Troppa

    Reaily can not believe how many people want the aussie car industry to close down,I hope they don’t call themselfs Australian,and if they do,pull your heads in tossers.

  • max

    Are you sure? How could anyone know what is going to happen. It is best guess for everyone at this stage. – Salesman

    Salesman, “The Dog & Lemon Guide” is essentially a commentary on past and present models, discusses their issues in terms of safety, recalls and reliablity, and other issues. There is some commentary on economic matters, euro design, Jap and Oz design, and other matters.

    Yes he has commented on GM, and also the fact that the day will come, when their will be no more producers in OZ.

    Reality is just that, its whats happening, circumstances and outcomes, perception is merely how you interpret those same events. The reality wont change, its happening right now, as we type, you may perceive the outcome of these events as you like, as may I and others. Lets not eat each others lunch for doing that :)

  • max

    I would laugh Bret, but…

  • Buck

    I reckon the car(s) you drive say an awful lot about the driver, so anyone who drives a 1957 Morris Oxford on the basis that’s its safer than XYZ and more reliable is a complete idiot, pure and simple.

    I’ve read some of his rubbish and if you followed his advice we’d all be driving Toyota Corolla’s or some such other boring underpowered Japaneese brand because its reliable and honest transport…..

    This clown just doesn’t “get it” about cars and the one he’s chosen to drive says it all.

  • the fact

    if only Mr.Cilve said”holden and ford will be survived”then these blindness people will be surrouding him and cheering him up for sure instead of attacking him.these bogans will not accept anything unless it suit them.but the good news is there will be less that crap poor quality cars on our roads and less bogans on this website.can’t come soon enough.do not just put face into the sand….just face the facts.at least holden can still inporting daewoo craps like they doing it now.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Um BJ this thread is all about a “so called Experts beliefs”

    BJ for months the media has been beating this drum and all its doing is making things worse for the manufacturers,if they go,they go but stop adding more negativity to it and especially from so called experts.
    Whos going to buy a car from any of them if the media keeps informing the public the car companies are going bust………how many more times are we going to discuss the demise of Ford and Holden and now is seems Toyota in Australia!

    Hey Salesman good times for Hyundai and Kia coming soon, all those Gov Departments,Rental Companies ect……..based on what THESE EXPERTS are saying Id be sending out the letters of offer for your stuff now babe!

    Now what are we going to do with our V8 Supercar Sport…….got anything rear wheel drive they can offer us ;)

    Max the type of people that are agreeing with your views would have loved to see the demise of Ford & Holden in the 70s too…….. they have hatred for them nothing to do with economics reliability or build quality. Young and silly some of them ,what can I say! ;)

  • max

    BM, I would hate to see the demise of Holden/Toyota/Ford
    as OZ producers, they offer this country a lot.

    Just my interpretation of what will happen.

    Buck, the Guide is not for enthusiasts, just vanilla drivers, which just happens to cover probably 80% of the worlds drivers, get there, get home and low maintenance please :) Sound like an appliance?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Um The Fact, he is also saying your beloved white goods manufacturer is closing too in Australia……just so you ricers dont miss out ;)

    Looks like we will be all driving around in German & Korean cars …………good hey.Whats your pick when you get your license :)

    So Max your expert opinion Id like to know what you think we will all be driving when the 3 pull the pin and what we expect to be paying for them seeing the local competition will be inilated.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Quote “BM, I would hate to see the demise of Holden/Toyota/Ford
    as OZ producers, they offer this country a lot.”

    Good to hear Max pity your follows dont have the same view …

  • max

    Will we be driving Mazda’s, Toyota’s, Honda’s Subies, Ford, GM, Nissan, Korean, german, italian, and so on.

    Jetta FSI petrol turbo for weekdays BM, 2001 MX5 for funtimes(live in the hills!)

  • The Truth

    The Fact,Your a Goose

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Max theres Ford in those rides……….where are they coming from ?

    Sorry Max I was asking “THE FACT ” what he will be driving when he gets his license ;)
    Your choices no problem though ,we too have a Jap and German in the garage up in the Hills also :)

  • zero

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    April 13th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    WHO THE HELL IS THIS GUY WHEN HES NOT AT HOME ???????????

    quote “It is his opinion ” Nuff said!

    well, we will have to wait and see for ourselves don’t we?

  • Cupid Stunt

    If the UK cannot keep an car industry going with a population of 68 million then there realistically is little chance of an Australian one going on its own with out the support of a multinational consortium. I reckon the Holden name will disappear as a manufacturer and become a re-badged brand name. It’s sad to see it go along with thousands of jobs and folk suffering.

  • Phill

    Sounds like,the fact and some of the others want to drive Tara Nano’s,each to his own I suppose.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Well Zero dont hold your breath……….

    Just heard news regarding Mr Wilsons opinions……..Holdens response to him ” they are irresponsible and baseless comments “…..

  • Miniskip

    Realist says: If high wages produced high productivity that’s fine – but when high wages produces the lowest productivity in the OECD it’s a problem.

    That would have to be the most insightful comment you have ever made on this site Realist not to mention that it actually relates to the Topic for once

    However; I would have to agree with you – The American Auto Workers are overpaid considering the poor quality cars they build and the low output that each plant produces – as GM and Ford have a number of “dedicated’ plants operatiing at less than 75% building identical cars.

    Which is why I believe it would be much more viable for GM to close some of their US plants [if nt pull out all together] and move production to facilities that are more modern more flexible and more productive…. such as Opel and Holden

  • BJ

    As if the spin doctors at Holden would say anything else!

  • the fact

    wondering who is irresponsible?Mr Clive or holden importaning 10 year old crap daewoos and rebagded as a holden.not really matter holden can built 50,000 commodores or 200,000 commodores a year,the only problem is the people are not buying it.
    its all came down to mismanagement of holden.we can talk about the product activity when we can built high quality world class cars and can export them to the world.now…not….what you can do with these poor quality fleet cars sitting in the yard??holden have a chance to lift the game but they ignored the reality.interestingly they tried with that 4 cylinder vectra once and failed that one too even in the boom economic time.now they are saying Korean designed 4 cylinder car to be built here….sorry…that not going to happened.its all too late.

  • BJ

    Oh that’s right, the US Government is going pump billions into keeping GM afloat so that it an shift manufacturing to places like Australia and Europe. That’ll go go down gangbusters with US taxpayers footing the bill.

    You people believe your own B******t.

  • Wheelnut

    They just had a brief report on Channel 10 news about Mr Clive Matthew Wilsons opinion about the future of the Australian Auto Industry etc.. He even appeared on camera to TRY and elaborate as to why he thinks like that

    Yet all I can say is that I would find it farily hard to believe a sceptic/pessimist who [looks like Graham Gardener from the Goodies] is completely bald exept for a pair of sculptured sideburns.

  • Wheelnut

    That is I would gind it hard to take him seriously

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Yeah BJ and you believe Mr Wilson that Holden Ford and Toyota are gone in Australia……..if that’s your Bed Time story for the night then sweet dreams ;)

    The Fact you need to change your name please…….and is it possible you can use Capital letters every now and then…..this isn’t MSN you know !

  • BJ

    I don’t know whether he is right; anymore than you know that he is wrong. I am open-minded to see he makes a reasonable argument.

    You, on the other hand are blinded by your own prejudice ..

  • Wheelnut

    BJ back in the mid 80s the Australian Gummint gave Kodak billions of dollars to try and keep them in Australia and create more jobs as part of the money ewas to help build a new film processing plant.
    However; when Kodak got the money they pulled out of Australia and used the money to build a new factory in Europe.. and there are a number of similar examples

    You got to remember the Bailout money is to intended help GM survive to do some restructuring etc.. and because they have a number of plants in the US operating at less than 75% they could say the closure of these plants is to help us survive

    I doubt they will pull out of the USA completely but they should close at least 1/3 of them so that in stead of having 15 plants operating at 50-75% they have 10 plants operating at 75%-100%

  • http://integra spade

    Hey dreamers its not an aussie industry , get that through your thick scones , its all owned by the yanks and the japs , profits out the door .

    Numbers dont add up so they close it , its the suppliers owned by aussies that will loose out , and the most jobs .

    Cupid is right UK lost its ford and GM factories years ago with 68 million pop , what hope , maybe ford , not the others

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Come on BJ…………. at no point have I said it wont happen I just dont believe we should be burying them on some guys opinion who seems to perceived as an Expert on this thread…….nice attempt at back peddling though mate ;)

  • Wheelnut

    Spade going by your logic then; if I happened to own a Holiday house in either Monaco; the French Riviera or the Carribean for example it would still be my Australian Holiday House…? yeah right!

  • zero

    Well Zero dont hold your breath……….

    Just heard news regarding Mr Wilsons opinions……..Holdens response to him ” they are irresponsible and baseless comments “…..

    well, as i said..we will have to see whether they are “irresponsible and baseless comments”

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Yep Zero , but how long are all the local car manufacturer haters going to give them ……..3 months 6…..12 10 years 20 years,Im betting us local followers wont be holding OUR breath for an apology from you all let alone the EXPERT when it doesnt happen……..

  • the fact

    we do not have much suppliers here as local contents for falcons and commodores are less than 30%.they even import the windscreens from china.2 dinosaurs are here for making money not concerned for local suppliers .what we make here?screws?batteries?

  • luvalambi

    WHEELNUT , PULL YOUR HEAD IN AND STOP TRYING TO SPEAK FOR BM? Two wrongs dont make a right??

  • eveready

    We don’t have many local suppliers?

    Try saying that to Dana, Continental, Sumitomo, Autoliv, Venture, Futuris, Plexicor, Bosch, PBR, Sckefenacher to name a few – building everything from IRS modules to stamping tools, Airbags, brakes, interior and exterior mouldings and trim…

  • Tomas79

    Eveready,
    All foreign owned!!

  • the fact

    WELL….try to say that to these 2 dinosaurs then..why local contents still less than 30% if we have so much local suppliers here and the commodore is the least local contents of any cars made here.how many times we heard on news that car factories have to shut down because of there a strike in bolts or nuts suppliers?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Luvalambi ………….turn the caps lock off . When have I ever needed anyone to speak for me ?

    I dont remember even having a conversation with you anyway on this subject, so take your own advice perhaps ;)

    What two wrongs are you referring too ?

  • Wheelnut

    The Fact; your statement that the Local content of both the Falcon and Commodore is just 30% is purely a guesstimation that you have made to try and support your arguement

    because there used to be a Federal Government Policy whereby the locally made cars had to be made up of at least 80% locally made parts/components as well as list the names of their suppliers – but that policy no longer exists

    Therefore; Holden don’t release what % of their cars is made up of Locally produced parts/components nor do they list the suppliers names.. and as far as I am aware neither do Ford or Toyota they are quite coy about it.

  • the fact

    i am not saying 30%.i am saying less than 30%.i am not guessing just ask the commodore magazine(wheels magazine)or find other reviews of that dinosaur a few year back.do not just put your face in the sand.just face the reality.is it so hard to accept the true?

  • Wheelnut

    The Fact – here is an exerpt form an article about the VE from Goauto.com.au – its from an interview with former Holden CEo after the launce of the VE….. pay particular attention to the 2nd paragraph

    GM HOLDEN maintains the VE Commodore is the most Australian car it has ever built after developing the vehicle architecture and designing and engineering the car from a “clean sheet”.

    Acknowledging that about A THIRD [that's 33%] of the car’s components, including big-ticket and big-budget items such as engines and transmissions, ARE SOURCED FROM OVERSEAS. GM Holden Managing Director Denny Mooney said: “This car was 100 per cent designed here.

    Did you get that 1/3 of the cars components comes from overseas.. which means approximately two thirds [or 66%] of the cars components come from local suppliers; some of which may be foreign owned but have factories in Australia making various parts for the local car companies.. Not just Holden

  • the fact

    well..this is from drive.With previous Commodores, Holden boasted about the local content of its cars. Now it refuses to divulge details. Taillights from Korea, fuel injectors from China, wheels made in Thailand, body-moulding tools made in Japan. And that’s just a taste.

    “We don’t discuss that level of detail,” is the stern response from Holden’s spokesman Jason Laird. “We don’t discuss local content”.Every model Commodore – from the VB launched in 1978 to the VT of 1997 – started life as a European Opel sedan that was heavily reworked to become an Australian Commodore.wondering how you could you spent 1 billion for so called a new VE.(wasn’t that all new)..with carried over nosiy imported engine,transmission.of course…we won’t know how much tax payers in it.

  • eveready

    Sure the bulk of the supplier base are foreign owned – it doesn’t detract from the fact they employ thousands and thousands of engineers, logistics, administration and process workers, let alone the amount of expenditure they do on R&D. Vehicle manufacturing is one of the last major value add industries left in Australia…

    Most industries are dominated by foreign owned companies anyway, be it IT or financial services – it doesnt mean they are any less important to the health of Australia’s economy.

    btw – the BA/BF faclon was reported to contain around 80% local content – although the FG is not that high – it is nowhere near as low as 30%… I think you will find 50-60% is a more accurate figure.

  • Future Man

    Theres too many Multi’s on this site.