Toyota slips in reliability
17 Oct, 2007
104 Comments 
Reports from the U.S. today suggest the king of reliability - Toyota - is starting to lose some of its thunder.
Consumer Reports, a U.S. based non-profit study into vehicle reliability, today admitted it will no longer practice recommending all new Toyota cars and trucks automatically.
The statement came amid two Toyota models earning below-average rankings in a closely watched reliability study. Those two models were the V6 version of Toyota’s flagship Camry sedan and the four-wheel-drive, V8 Tundra pickup truck.
In the U.S. the Japanese still lead the way in reliability, with Honda coming in first, closely followed up Subaru and Toyota.
Note to readers, Toyota vehicles sold in the U.S. are not built in the same factory as Toyota vehicles sold in Australia, therefore the reliability survey does not affect Australian delivered cars.
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October 17th, 2007 at 11:38 am
Hmmmmm TOYOTA SLIPS DOWNWARDS ON RELIABILITY IN BIG US MARKET. Big Trouble in Little Japan - Hmmmm wait til the Toyota Pope-Mobile touches in on this website today - hopefully his popemobile car will be ARD approved and not US approved… LOL
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October 17th, 2007 at 11:45 am
No surprise considering the surges in output/growth recently, overtaking GM, clearly quality is slipping. They better rectify it soon.
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October 17th, 2007 at 11:52 am
All car makers go through peaks and troughs, Toyota will too. First TRD Aurion flop as should of been ironed out be ADR approved, now this…like dominoes as once one falls it is a chain reaction!
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October 17th, 2007 at 11:55 am
I highly doubt Toyota will fall anytime soon,
this is a US based study, as the article says, it doesnt reflect aus delivered cars, so lets not get too worked up on it
but it is a good indiication that with supply rising and rising, standards are getting a little lower, perhaps Toyota cant keep up with demand, and it has come at the expense of reliability?
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Will leave you with a pertinant question - when Hyundai were getting accolades in USA nobody really in Australia took it overly serious even though Hyundai spoke about it (and it is showing up now, one only has to look at Hyundai i30 review on this website or print media I have sighted that stated it is above all Japanese quality except Lexus SOURCE: Courier Mail Oct 6th-7th Carsguide p3). We now turn full circle and with Toyota… admitedly different market yes but it may easily lead to ramifications here!
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Maxi has a point. In all aspects of business, those who believe they have been unfairly treated or have a point to prove, go the extra yard to impress, ie. Hyundai. Whereas those who are arrogant and believe they can do no wrong, taking their customers for granted, invariably come a gutsa! I don’t for a minute think Toyota won’t respond to this news, but they must realise that their god given right to be #1 is no longer a given.
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
I’ve said all along that Toyota does not excel in the quality department like they used too.
Not to worry though, perception and reputation will carry Toyota through…
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I think Toyota Japan will step in and start spanking people.
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Or start poaching South Korean executives…who have the same mental attitudes Japan Had 10-15 years ago.
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I just want to add:
That Camry, is not even produced here and i have never seen someone in a Tundra over here. Then you have the fact that is the American’s meddling.
Name means everything to the Japanese and I don’t think this will be taken lightly at all.
Lets not forget:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....Reputation
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October 17th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
I think you will find this ’slip’ is a short term thing… the reason for it is because the V6 Camry transmission in the U.S has had problems and obviously this has resulted in Toyota losing some of its reliability. Given we have a different transmission to them in Australia and we dont even have the Tundra (or its V8 engine in any of our vehicles….which is the source of the problem, bad batch from suppler resulted in camshaft failures), I doubt this survey is reflective of Toyota Australia’s reliability. Not that it matters, they are still number one in the states.
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Corolla reliability (percieved or real based on your view) carries Toyota through thick and thin.
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
why am i not surprised to see paul in here…LOL! jokes dude! yeah it was bound to happen…for years GM was dogged by quality issues as with Ford…now Fords in Europe are being compared and even equalling or raising the standard over BMW rivals…
the thing i dont understand is…why people buy the corolla when its built in south africa alongside the focus, and yet media organisations rave and applaud the focus over the corolla, yet the corolla goes 3 to 1 per sale…adam i think you’re spot on with the reputation bit…or is it that aussies have become too boring to go for something different and rather buy the cardigan brand.
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
LOL TOYOTA PAUL…yeah it doesnt matter. You are funny as!
Talk about dam shoe on other foot TOYOTA PAUL…BUT - when a minnow climbs up in a very short time like Hyundai and waves Toyota behind it in terms of bulletproof reliability under JD Power survey in USA and only Porsche and Lexus are above Hyundai means the GAME IS CHANGING! Already seeing that with Hyundai i30 Downunder that makes all Jap cars inferior in regards to quality FACT IS THAT MUST HURT AS THEY ONLY BEEN GOING SHORT PERIOD OF TIME! Yes it doesn’t matter, to the smart and not the silly TOYOTA PAUL. CYCLIC IT WILL BE, JUST AS IT WAS WITH FORD AND HOLDEN, ETC. If Toyota do not do it then some of the others will overtake your pacesetter. Really TOYOTA PAUL you are a goose as others give you same reasoning about supplier problems, etc when you attacked there reliability at the time on other posts & you don’t buy it… mate are you double dutch or what!!!
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Great point John. Seems like it has more to do with company and its standing then actual product as you just pointed out a classic humdinger example! Remember it is like NIKE, when made from its place of origin nearly everyone got a pair. They get the name, move the manufacturing and still act as if all same and continue PR blurb and charge heaps for minimal costs. They also get huge incentives to do this in overseas countries and Governments swarm to them (most times) like bees to honey. Same RRP but cheaper to produce - oh what a tangled web they all weave!
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
John…
Unfortunaltey Aussies want a safe vehicle purchase, toyota was the best 20 years ago, not now but that doesn’t matter.
perception and reputation is what sells Toyotas predominatley in this era.
They make boring cars, people will still buy and i think your right Aussies will drive mainly boring cars, not as bad as the Yanks but not far behind.
As Toyota paul proves, Toyota is stumbling at the moment, the reaons are irrelevant, Paul gives us a whole list of reasons why and says that this is just a short term issue, I don’t know too many other brands in the world which can get away with these same excuses?
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Toyota paul…
Just out of curiousity, which 6 speed auto do Aussie toyotas get compared to the US versions??
Do you even know?
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October 17th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
adam…oh well…no matter how much toyota tries to ditch the cardigan image, its just as futile as ford trying to improve its quality image…
it’s a catch 22…but look at ford uk…ford uk is trumpetting all rivals…ford uk has 23% of all new car market and growing…why? uk folk like quality, driveability and pizzaz! only if ford oz, and maybe even holden looked to europe for inspirtation and forget the yankee doodle dandies and the airy fairy koreans…
and max…yeah i cant believe how multinational companies can get away with it…one thing is, why is ford importing the focus from south africa and selling it for $19,990 and holden gets the astra from belgium and sell it for the same price…i would’ve expected ford to sell it for $18,990 since the dollar is much stronger…but then if they did this…the aussie motoring public will see it as an attempt to become a major discounter, putting the focus alongside the elantra and tiida…how sad…
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October 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Looks like this only affects US made Toyotas?
I know Toyota has had quality issues in the past with South African made Corolla.
If you want a quality Toyota, make sure it is made in Japan, specifically the Tahra plant, which produces all Lexus models (except ES series), Landcruiser, Prado and a few other Toyota models.
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October 17th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Well you could say that about any other auto brand too, provided it’s made in japan you won’t have a problem.
How many vehicles are made in japan and exported here anymore?
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October 17th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Found some more info on it thats also interesting.
Quoted
“According to the Consumer Reports survey released today FoMoCo has significantly improved in quality of its cars and trucks. Toyota on the other hand slipped out of the number 1 spot all the way down to fifth place.
93 percent of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles showed average or better reliability in the most recent reliability survey. Ford’s Mercury brand came in 11th, the Ford brand itself came in 13th and the Lincoln luxury brand ranked 14th. Overall, 41 of Ford’s 44 models scored average or better in the predicted reliability survey.
Honda came in number one followed by Acura, Scion and Subaru. For the first time in history, The Toyota Camry V6 isn’t recommended by the Consumer Reports. Thanks to egmcartech dot com.
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October 17th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
ToyotaPaul, Aurion has the same 6 speed as Camry V6 in the states. But the problem was discovered and fixed before Aussie launch of Aurion (US gets Camry the earliest). And the Trunda V8 will be slotted into Lexus LX570, but the cam problem has also been fixed. Yes, there are increasing number of problems in Toyotas because of increasing productions, but its not like Toyota cars will have the same quality of GM Holdens’ any time soon…
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October 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
And the difference isn’t as great either…
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October 17th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
HA,HA,HA TOYOTA PAUL!!!!!!!!(LOL)!!
Going on about toyota, saying it’s more reliable all the time just to make you feel better and Look at the Title of this page!
LOL!
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October 17th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
There is no denying that Toyota in recent times have endured some growing pians but i also reserve confidance that Toyota being the resiliant company they are will invest accordingly to rectify not only outstanding matters but to minimize any other potential problems.
I have noted that some people have highlighted the increase in reliability of other manufactuers such as Hyundai but has anyone given it any more thought then a straightline opinion.
Yes companies like Hyundai may start having an impact on the sales of Japanese companies have what about the impact they will also inflict on the American trio - worth considering.
That said, bar a few growing pains - Toyota has proven thier ability to mass produce highly competitive cars but what gaurantee is there that if/when other manufacturers such as Hyundai increase in popularity that they will be able to maintain the same discipline.
I have noted that Hyundai has improved the quality of thier vehicles remarkedly but they are still only producing in relatively small numbers. Once/if production increases to meet any new increase in demand of thier vehicles, what gurantee is there that they will be able to maintain order and that goes for any other outfit.
Time will be the only judge.
Despite some misfortunes, Toyota as it has for many years still remains towards the top as a quality manufactuer and some of thier recent failings could just aswell prove to be the realiy check they need to remain highly competitive.
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October 17th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
hey guys, i challenge anyone to hop into a new aurion and check the fittings out…
Particuarly see how NOT rigid the centre console is! i just tried one…the entire centre console of this aurion has too much free play, try that in a VE or BF11 and i bet you they are more rigid.
Try the climate control rotation knobs out too, they wiggle and make creaking noises! try that in a VE or BF11 and see which feels more expensive to operate, try the knobs that let air in and out of the air vents, Falcons and commodores are rubber coated while the camry and aurions aren’t!
I have no doubt that Toyota still has reliability, but when it comes too fittings and construction they have lost some shine in this department.
I’m literally shocked at how average the camry/aurion have become for fit and finish…
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October 17th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I know because we have over 200 vehicles at our location, all makes and models… so i can check any model out at will. I work for a major dealer group for new and used vehicles.
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October 17th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Here is a more detailed review of the report.
Toyota (3rd), Lexus and Scion all ranked in the top 10 while the top rated domestic brand was Buick at 10th. Toyota had 17 of the 39 most reliable of which was far more then any other brand.
Of the 44 least reliable, Toyota and Ford had 1 each while Chrysler had 6 models compared to GM’s 13.
Hummer and Landrover were the least reliable.
Apart from thier recent growing pains - it appears Toyota is still manufacturing highly competitive vehicles.
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October 17th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Adam - you could not have raised a better example and i must say, i really don’t know how you came to that conclusion. The Aurion’s centre console infact is more sturdy then that of the VE and BF so yes - i do challenge readers to check it out for themselves.
That said, sit in the passenger seat of the VE and see how weak and flimsy the plastic trim is that runs along your right leg. Give it a gentle pull (and mean only a gentle tug) and it will dislodge extremely easily. Then, i challenge you to reconnect it without fussy around for a couple of minutes.
And before you hop out of the Commodore, inspect the A and C - Pillar trims and ofcourse the flimsy roof lining along the front and rear windows. Another area of concern is the front seat rear pockets.
So yes, take the challenge and indeed report the quality differance of the Aurion compared to the other two locals. One area apart from the drivetrain were the Aurion does impress the most and that is interior quality.
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October 17th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
LOL…cut the tug out mate (your words!). Think you got that wrong! Why, as sampled!
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October 17th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Sorry Rodrega, I have to agree with Adam.
I just walked outside to check this out… I have three BFs here at work and also two Aurions. The Aurion centre console can be wobbled around whereas the BF centre consoles are solid.
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October 17th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
wow just as i have been shot down for suggesting that toyota quality has slipped and they are selling cars on their perception of quality, then hey presto im not as dilusional as people on here say. (you know who you are)
well on the apology count it is 2 for me 0 for toyota paul.
i cant see how this doesnt affect the aussie produced vehicles. since 2002 toyota went down hill in OZ (in my opinion) as far as quality/reliability. didnt the surveys that suggest that toyota was once good on reliability only originate from USA too? so why do people see the good news applies here but the bad news doesnt?
Rodrega, im lost in your stats a bit. so what is the cut off for being classed in the “most reliable title. top 39 is it? well if it is above average shouldnt all cars that average or above be classed as that which would mean more than 39 classed as most reliable.
growing pains shouldnt be an excuse. hyundai was able to go from a bad reputation (i still dont understand how they got a bad one but anyway) to expansion and increase quality at the same time.
and as already stated ford is marching along strongly in europe and maintaing quality.
i see it as the reason why toyota is the biggest seller on a world scale is because they sell in asian cities which makes up a hell of a lot of our population. asians will pretty much only buy their own products so no way will ford for eg gain market share in such places even if they are better
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October 17th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Andrew check your mail!
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October 17th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
The drive train trobles the LandCrusers have is not good. See that Paul!! Toyota is not that perfect as you say is it?
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October 17th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Agree about numbers being sold in Asian cities as it will be sold there first before it steps out to outside areas with lesser populations. After all where is the biggest population on the globe per square km? (this is in no way racist one bit either!).
Yes we know who that is! Dare say you will get double figures before the score moves off 0 and the ToyotaPope will probably step out from his beloved Toyota Popemobile to contemplate his 1st apology to you ANDREW M - either that or he might break down due to camshaft failures!
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October 17th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
BUT… then again that is at hand and sorted as onto it faster then Superman!
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October 17th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Sorry Ross, i have 3 Aurions and two BF’s here at work and i just checked it for myself aswell. The interior quality of Aurion is unquestionably superior then the VE and BF.
Andrew, Fords and GM only sell well in the states because rednecks will only buy thier own products.
And, why don’t you just accept what Rodrega produced without swining. Typical Holden/Ford loser, always gotta get upset at the slightest of things.
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October 17th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Haven’t driven the base VE but the Senator sure feels quality. I haven’t noticed anything bad in the Aurion either, but have in the 380 Series II.
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October 17th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
To each there own IMPORTJAP… 380 is meant to be right towards top on quality reviews and VE down so, yeah????? Then Aurion in TRD on this website talks a little bit of inside too being tad??? (albeit in that model not giving it character).
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October 17th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Like I said, have not been in a base VE, the 380 could quite possibly crap all over it. The 380’s issues weren’t massive, just the knobs kept coming off.
I suppose I was in a top spec HSV :D
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October 18th, 2007 at 12:20 am
I can attest to this…
as I am in the U.S and working for Toyota Engineering.
Toyota has “regressed”.
Ford has improved… yada yada yada..
good now, the gap isnt night and day… :-)
Ford has actually worked hard to change their quality… to put it bluntly… when your knocked down… You can only get back up…
And when your on top… You can only go downwards…
thats the perfect metaphor to explain the situation here.
tell you though… its a HUGE concern over here. Thats all I can say….
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October 18th, 2007 at 1:27 am
There is absolutly no problems with the Australian Toyota’s, my family owns three of them, (05 corolla, 06 Yaris sedan, 06 camry grande) and we have no problems, any that we have had its simply been picked up in regular services and toyota has got it all done in no time. There was a recall on the camry headlights, but that was fixed in an hour at a dealer… Toyota is number 1.
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October 18th, 2007 at 1:47 am
JAMISON - what is of concern !!
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October 18th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Sorry Cam,
But no matter what you say can’t change the fact that that you can wobble (albeit slightly) the Aurion centre consoles and not the BF ones.
Cheers mate.
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October 18th, 2007 at 11:45 am
My point is i can check more than one or 2 cars, as we have over 200 different makes and models.
Another point is…Toyota doesn’t exceed the locals like it used too, they are pretty much all line ball, toyota can no longer crow about having better fit and finish on the interiors…
Rubber coating on the BF11 and VE but never on a camry/aurion? check that out.
Check the operation of the climate controls knobs in the camry/aurion…they wiggle and feel like plastic, the BF11s don’t and if you can’t see that you must be blind…
Maybe the centre console i checked out one a one off bad fitting?
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October 18th, 2007 at 11:46 am
check the knobs for the air vents…
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October 18th, 2007 at 11:52 am
I certainly wouldn’t be buying a Toyota based on better quality than anybody else any longer…
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October 18th, 2007 at 11:56 am
I suppose I should qualify that my earlier comments about the three BFs and two Aurions centre consoles are only what I have observed based on 5 of my work vehicles.
In saying that though, the Aurions are newer, so I don’t think they should have that free play in them - unless that’s just how the design is - which I suspect it is.
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October 18th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
well most centre consoles ive seen the ba and VZ/VEs are have much better for solidity.
I had a customer who complained that the centre console bib lid was rattly and had too much free play! that was the previous generation camry and i simply said ‘thats the way all the camry console lids are like’ and they expected it to be rigid because it was a toyota!
this is the issue…perception vers reality.
Every other maker has caught up with toyota.
Another example is…take the falcon and commodores of the early mid 90s, it was very rare to see falcon or commo take the lead and win a comparision review…
No, you will find quite often the camry and magna/380 will be mid pack or at the very last of the rankings in most comparisons made today.
NVH, dynamics, fuel efficiency and performance is where Holden and Ford have made huge gains on, while fit and finish is where they are starting to match toyota.
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October 18th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
http://www.leftlanenews.com/to.....japan.html
More recalls?
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October 18th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Hmmm, 1115 on that site sounds a lot like our Toyota_Paul.
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October 18th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Heaven help others if him as he is a unit!
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
You people are really sad… your gonna have to deal with the fact that your Ford and Holdens were rated as EQUAL LAST in studies on reliability, they had in cases nearly half the reliability of Toyotas…. which is even more pathetic when you consider their more scale of production compared to Toyota, youd THINK smaller production means better quality, obviously not when your sourcing Korean parts and using American designed engines and associated components!!! You come here talking up this article, which is based on problems Australia hasnt experienced, Im going to deal with the facts, Toyota is still number 1 in the world and in Australia its still far far far better then the locals who are a disgrace. 3 recalls in a year for a billion dollar vehicle is pathetic. Only 40% of vehicles as shown in the recent study not having problems is pathetic for Holden and Ford. Toyota isnt immune to issues, the gen4 camry had sludge problems, which were rectified… but at the end of the day customer surveys, independent studies etc show their reliability is the best, thats why they are among the cheapest cars to run per km, due to low additional maintenance costs, because yes some have problems but when you sell millions of vehicles a hand full of problems is nothing… while they are driving strong a massive 60% of Falcons, not a handfull in any sense, are back at the dealership getting fixed within 5 months of sale.
When your brands have better relaibility, then get back to me, until then, I will continue laughing at your hypocritical antics.
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…seri-ass
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Not every dai Paul that you get a giant rising from the ashes like Hyundai. Do your self a favour buy one todai - you will be pleasantly suprised! Look at the survey results there. Forget Holden and Ford, yes I like Fords (and remember I have said I like Hyundai) but Iam not a one eyed cyclops with one eye on Ford as you are with your girlfriend Miss Toyota! Must hurt to here the i30 is ahead of any Japanese carmaker bar Lexus. Great result in a short period of time hey!
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Ummm not it doesnt hurt, Ive said it a 1000 times before I dont intend to buy a Toyota next… Im defending logic here, Toyota is not only the biggest manufacturer in the world but the most reliable. This along with the fact that your ford is LAST must hurt!!!
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Paul, it is not the only issue. I like a honest, genuine, character filled car………just like when one looks for a girlfriend. You with me!
And so it is the same with cars, I like cars to have soul and character, are you with me on that one! I agreed with other views highlighting this too as one does not have to be 6miles across the forehead to join the dots to come up with JUST COMMON SENSE. Maybe revisit the days of the great Toyota Celica 4WD, man that had some poke and some show. Memories Paul as they are bit more high maintenance and they are unlike the pedestrian lot that Toyota sell todai! Asta la Vista closet Toyota lover!
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
HA,HA,HA LOL!!!!!!!!!
Toyota Paul said Toyota’s are “MORE RELIBLE THAN FORDS AND HOLDENS”, now you say they “EQUAL on reliability” Figure it out! LOL!
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October 18th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
‘Going Ford’ go back to school and learn how to read, I have said Ford and Holden are both EQUAL LAST not Toyota equal with them.
Naughtyius you want something with more character, you get a Lexus, which shytes over anything the locals offer here. The fact is Toyota sell predominantly to people who want reliability over performance, they are meeting the demands of their customers. Although in saying this, they are slowly moving towards others, their cars are looking better and performing better (Aurion > Current Falcon) not to mention TRD is now coming into it, a filler for those who cant quite afford a Lexus but want something better.
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October 18th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
No Paul, you go back to school…
OH Sorry, you havent even started grade 1 yet, I forgot.
TRD is comming into it, but they are behind FPV and HSV, just before FPV will take off next year. Toyota can’t quite do what Ford and Holden do because they not really based in Australia, unless they change when time goes by.
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October 18th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
1 quick thing is corolla driver you said you can say there has been no problems with your toyotas then you go on to state that you had to have things fixed when they are in for service???? sorry dont get how you figure no problems when you admitt you’ve had things fixed?
Cam, mate my point on asians only buying their own products is very valid. have you ever been to any asian cities to view the proof of this? I have.
have you ever been to europe or UK to see that they are a little more open to what they buy/sell = a more diversified range of vehicles? I have
Paul,
i didnt know ford used korean parts and american engines. im sure you were refering to holden alone there so be carefull not to tar ford with the same brush.
also the term reliability is too loosely used. if such surveys reflect poor fit and finish issues does that make a car more unreliable?
i think ford has taked a big step up in terms of fit and finish since the BA came out. maybe it takes time to reflect changes in these surveys. and if most of them are related to fit and finish the purchaser gets a chance to inspect it first and decide if it is acceptable first.
what im getting at is that these surveys call it “poor reliability” but it doesnt mean you will always breakdown.
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October 18th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
If ford is so holy and wonderful, why are they broke as hell?
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October 18th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
^^^ Why are they broke?
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October 18th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Anthony,
ford are not “broke as hell”. if they were they would cease to trade. and also they would not still own the many reputable assets that they do.
i think i know what you are getting at though and the answer to the financial differences between toyota and ford lies within their global business strategy.
mate its a lesson in business structure and not what you are actually selling.
do you want a bit more of an indepth explanation as to why toyota are better off financially than ford or can you understand where it is going?
oh and do you buy a car from the manufacturer that reports the bigger profit do you?
do you bank with the bank that reports the biggest profit? like hell i would because that means they are ripping you off.
dont get upset im not saying toyota are ripping people off it was an example that proves it is not always the product that dictates profit
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October 18th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Anthony, if you can say Ford’s going broke, Genral Motors are too. That means no Holdens
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October 18th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
^
Im willing to accept that… both of them are surviving off the back of fleet sales and government grants. Take away these freebies and they would cease to exist, in Australia at least. Meanwhile Toyota for the MOST part has to compete in a market where its competitors have an unfair advantage… and it doesnt just compete, its now thriving.
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October 18th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Yes Paul but it will change
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October 19th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Toyota paul…
Will you please stop the crap you make up in relation to Ford and Holden getting unfair advantages over Toyota, ive said it before and i’ll say it again, your WRONG.
AND let me inform you that Corolla, camry and Aurion have just as many fleet deals going as the 2 big cars, corolla would slip behind astra, mazda 3 and focus if fleet sales were taken away.
saying that toyota is the biggest manufacturer as an argument is irelevant also, GM was the biggest for over 70 years up until last, what does that prove a big fat nothing.
What sells the best is not always the better product, corolla is a great example of this.
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October 19th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
NO YOUR WRONG AS USUAL BIASED ADAM.
Id link the site but this post wouldnt come up, but go to drive and look for the Myth Busted article.
Private sales, the Corolla sells 16,000 the next competitor, Mazda, sells 15,000. The fact is no other manufacturer in Australia sells 80%+ of one model to fleets, this IS what keeps Ford and Holden alive. Its as simple as that. The fleets who want an Aussie image, couldnt care about the car itself… keep Ford and Holden alive. Deal with it. Meanwhile Toyota gets good numbers of fleet sales, the people who actual use their own money to buy the best vehicles available… which in most cases is a Toyota.
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October 19th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Another nice little fact, the Falcon wasnt even in the top 15 of private buys LOL! Surviving off the back of gift sales.
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October 19th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
^^^
Doesn’t mean anything.
Just because of sales doesn’t mean how good the car is ok!
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October 19th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Ahhhh yes it does. You dont have people buying your car if your offering shyte… which is one reason why Holden and Ford rely on fleets, because they offer shyte.
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October 20th, 2007 at 7:40 am
ah, ah, aah, aaah, aaaarh, oooooh ummm…Toyota!
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October 20th, 2007 at 7:42 am
^Wow Ford used in fleets, THATS OK! Beause they can only use good cars for fleets, not like some ****.
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October 20th, 2007 at 7:47 am
Naughtyius Maximus (NOT KFC), sounds like you abit hung-over thismorning?
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October 20th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Gee no, had a few and fine as! Just get sick of some of the chameleon wannabe know it alls. You know who I mean! Better to laugh then take some serious!
Going to wedding today near Glen Innes, then up to God’s country tomorrow to Brissie (QLD) and we are off to Cairns monday morning to work on my ketch and diving! Like your name on here!
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October 20th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Hipster Dufus Tander is on pole possie.
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:00 am
Winterbotton, penalised and take’n back of the grid. Frostyarse had the best looking car, shame what his team did!
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:05 am
How is bignose hooter Skaifey?
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:20 am
Mark T-Boned PRick and not in the top 10. To crap drivers finaly at the back
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:25 am
Gaybo and Hooter up the back, bad (GOOD STUFF) luck hey!
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:45 am
hey guys i havent had time to check here for a bit…….been flat out.
so whats been going down…….lets see……
aaaaahhhhhhhh so paul is still going on about absolute rubbish.
paul you have been caught stating wrong facts before so before you want to grace us with new ones how about you apologise for what you have gotten wrong before.
mate were you hit by a ford or holden at a pedestrian crossing when you were younger? i dont see why someone would develop such haterid for such a vehicle they have never owned!!!!!!
mate you are getting pathetic now you carry on with “ford only offer shyte”
mate grow up or join the holden fan club as that is something that a blind holden follower would say.
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:52 am
So am I reading this right both Kelly and Skafie were fined for still racing under a Yellow flag
“Kelly had another shocking day - following on from his DNF with Tander at Bathurst - when he was T-boned by Mark Skaife in practice and later fined $1000 for failing to slow down sufficiently under the yellow flag.
The incident created high drama in the day’s opening session with Holden Racing Team’s Skaife also fined $1000 for the same reason”
All I can say is go James and Jamie!!!!!!!!
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October 20th, 2007 at 8:55 am
Mate Andrew.M yiur f*ckin pathetic with your lies, I havent said one lie here, I have been stating the facts I posted the link to… an indepdendent study using industry figures. Ford and Holden equal last in reliability. The person who should be apologising is you buddy (and Klink), you barged into the TRD review agreeing with that twat about relaibility and Ive completely shown you up for the biased Ford support you people are. Time to eat your humble pie and pull your head in, Ford might have Toyota in other areas but they DO NOT have better reliablity, or anywhere near it for that matter, than Toyota. Comprehende?
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October 20th, 2007 at 9:04 am
paul lies…..
stating toyota had bullet proof reliability
stating fords werent exactlly known for their safety
does any of that ring a bell you tool???????
a biased person is someone who actually puts a certain manufacturers name ahead of their own
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October 20th, 2007 at 9:19 am
QUOTE=Toyota_Paul “Ford might have Toyota in other areas but they DO NOT have better reliablity, or anywhere near it for that matter, than Toyota. Comprehende?”
I agree with you here to an extent Paul. Toyota does have a better track record for reliability, but because your getting pissed off with all the arguments, lately you’re putting Toyota at the very top and Ford/Holden at the very bottom. The gap is decent but just isn’t that HUGE.
My brother’s 2000 Hilux, cam belt broke long before it was due for replacement. My sister’s late ’90s Camry, 5th grear died twice due to weak hard-facing on teeth. Some other little probs not really worth mentioning but those are two big ones.
My Fords have been have been very good to me. Only prob my AU has had in 7 years, a slow leaking water pump.
If I based my opinion purely on personal experience, I’d say Ford was miles in front of Toyota. Of course I know that isn’t the case. I factor in/accept surveys up to a point.
So I agree Toyota is near the top, Ford/Holden are a ways behind in reliability, but not the bottomless pit you’ve been dropping them in lately. I’m still happy as with my Falcon.
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October 20th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Toyota paul…
No lies huh?
1.The better vehicles are not always top selling!! The VZ was NOT a better car than the BA yet outsold the BA.
Ford has stated that they simply can’t build the same volume as Holden as territory takes up the remaining factory build volume.
The previous corolla was close to the bottom of the small car pile for overall ability, yet sold better than any other small car…the list goes on.
The previous camry never won any comparison with magna/380, commodore or falcon.
So the more accomplished vehicles don’t always sell better.
2. Fleet sales, more than ever people have the CHOICE with what company vehicle thay get to drive, unlike 10-15 years ago, salary sacrifice…etc.
So the argument that fleet sales keep the big cars alive is a dying argument.
Please break out the fleet sales % for the VE commodore, i think you will find the VE has the highest rate of private purchases than any commodore before it.
The falcon sales have dropped off due to it being the oldest vehicle in it’s class, orion should boost sales once again, also remember Ford AUS is not operating like they used to, they are starting to focus on less volume, more profit per unit (mondeo).
Take a look at the top 10 selling new vehicles, the margin is spread out over more evenly than what it used to be when falcon and commodore used to command 5-7000 units a months each and the gap to 3rd spot was much bigger.
The market is changing…the way people can buy company vehicles is changing.
In a recent comment buy Ford AUS boss Tom Gorman he admitted that focus doesn’t have the rental sales that the corolla currently has and it’s an opportunity to chase more healthy fleet sales for focus in the next few years.
The camry and aurion haven’t blown anybody else away when it comes to sales, not even beating the 6 year falcon.
VE remains top seller, does show that people still want cars that have some personality?
As i have said to you many times before, Toyota doesn’t have class leading products across the board, yes they are reliable, but nearly every other brand is closing the gap.
toyota has admitted itself that they will need to focus on better looking cars for furture products as they will need to start relying on other areas of improvment such as, dynamics, styling, desirability not just a reputation for quality, they have too.
When Toyota starts building cars that hit the top class for every measurable area, then i’ll proclaim Toyota to be the best vehicle producer.
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October 20th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Andrew.M no I have never said ‘bullet proof’ reliability and yes Fords aernt KNOWN for their safety, they are on par with every other manufacturer.
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October 21st, 2007 at 9:55 pm
paul do you get kicks out of making people repeat themselves? and then you disappear for a bit and expect everyone to forget you havent answered questions placed at you?
ok here we go again……………
Paul, mate check this out……this came from another posting of yours in reference to mondeo………..
“Toyota Paul Says:
October 12th, 2007 at 10:47 am
but what it doesnt have is Toyotas bulletproof reliability.”
you have also quoted that……
“fords arent exactlly renowned for their safety”
actually if you check this out you will find that it is toyotas that arent exactlly renowned for their safety and fords are actually regarded as being quite safe.
http://www.news.com.au/heralds…..gs2007.pdf
i think you let your bias carry you away a bit sometimes.
so tell me how a manufacturer with say 5 class safety toppers (like ford) is on par with toyota with 0?
ford has dominated safety in its class with the falcon for a very long time.
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October 22nd, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Yes my bias! When I say bulletproof relaibiliy I dont mean NO PROBLEMS AT ALL, they havet problems, but given they are in the top 5 Id say you can say they are bulletproof… while your playing on words you dodge the fact that you said Fords have good reliability, I think you even gave the taxi example, when in fact they dont, equal last. And your link doesnt work, but regardless where are the stats this thing I assume quotes from? I would hope its of the same quality as the relaibility ones, industry figures.
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October 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
You have to admit Paul, you’ve been caught out fair and square there.
You really have no leg to stand on when you keep saying you never mentioned toyota’s are bulletproof.
Perhaps it’s time you ate some humble pie? Are you man enough to admit you lied?… (There is no point disputing it… it is there in black and white in the Mondeo thread)
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October 22nd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Toyota Paul, I think you are 12 by now - because you go on like some kid I used to know. There were things I said about Toyota’s problems, but you could never respond to them because you no nothing in that area of cars, (thats if you know anything).
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October 22nd, 2007 at 7:55 pm
so paul is this the bit where you say sorry and admit you did actually say that “toyotas are bulletproof” and i am not a liar like you so childishly illuded to?
mate the facts in the chart actually rank each car in terms of safety for every class. it is not an article nor a survey (which is based on opinions) but rather factual findings of how safe our cars are. and not just recent tests but it also places older models against newer models.
maybe you could find the link from the other times i tried to get it through to you or use your computer skills you have (i assume you have some you are always on here it seems) and copy and paste the wording to your browser.
mate i do think fords have acceptable reliabliity. have you ever owned one to know?
the thing is the survey includes fit and finish items aswell doesnt it? well that to me doesnt affect the reliability of the car. so the the reliability info you live your daily life on actually has a play on words itself as the wording implies that certain cars always break down. unreliability means you cant count on something and it causes you great inconvienience. does a poorly fitted body side rubber mean the car is un reliable?
so lets start by growing up and stop calling me a liar when…..well…..the blood is on your hands.
god you gotta love print!!!
bullet proof does mean NO problems
resistant means it is affected less.
big difference
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October 22nd, 2007 at 8:00 pm
the link has been modified since i copied and pasted it it must be part of their moderation thing they do now.
you are right it just spins you to a home page for i certain news site.
any ideas on how to give the true link?
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October 23rd, 2007 at 6:30 pm
yes paul just go quiet for a bit now and then come on again and try the “i never said it” line again like you have i think 3 times now. you are either in denial or you seriously have a memory span of a gold fish
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October 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Paul is sulking. :)
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October 23rd, 2007 at 6:42 pm
No there is no going quiet, if I cant see the article being posted at Im not going searching. There is nothing to say sorry about, by bulletproof I meant they have solid reliability, when I mentioned I never said it I meant in the context you were putting it in… that toyota NEVER has problems. Im well aware of them, my car was one of them that had sludge issues (not actually more car but the generation). Your just playing on words here when the fact is, you barged into the TRD thread agreeing with some clown that Toyota doesnt have reliability… and Ive shown they are dam good while Ford who you claimed did have good reliability, were equal last.
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October 23rd, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Paul no no no
i havent barged in saying toyotas dont have reliability, i have tried to say that toyotas arent invincible like you go on and on and on about. and for the record if you actually read what i say, i have said that toyota has a better track record when it comes to defects
sorry paul i must have missed a unit of physcology where they say bulletproof doesnt mean bulletproof.
are you 12 and say sometimes yes means no?
mate all im saying is how can you call me a liar when you specifically claim you did not say those words yet you did? why did you not just debate what you meant by it?
so what about the safety? you know something that many people would regard as being more important
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October 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
so is it on the side of the road with a broken water pump (or whatever) or on the side of the road dead for you today sir?
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October 23rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
dont abuse me if you cant get your terminology right.
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October 23rd, 2007 at 8:38 pm
What are you on Andrew.M… and abuse you what the hell? Lets deal with facts, Ford equal last on reliability when you say they are decent while Toyota is in top4 when I said they were. One person is right, one is wrong.
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October 24th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
yep paul is a goldfish (very short memory)
mate you went off at me and called me a liar because you denied you said toyotas have bullet proof reliability, when you had said it.
also i have never said fords have better track reliability so what the hell straight back to ya!!!! i conceded that one remember??? i have defended the way you make out that fords are absolutely shocking and pieces of shite. (and yes you have said that)
have you ever owned a ford?
if you have you would find that their quality is acceptable. maybe not the best but quite acceptable none the less.
so what about the safety aspect?? are you still trying to say toyotas have a better or at least equal safety track record? because they dont.
dont be so biased and realise that the only thing that toyotas have going for them is their track record in reliability. and now they are even losing that
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October 24th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Arrr so we have a goldfish and an elephant!hahaha
Sorry honey but your first post of the day is serious!
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December 30th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Fords are outdated pieces of fucking shit. Ford are in real shit, due to the lack of quality. Drove a territory with 1000km on it, was falling to bits. Leavers and knobs were faulty, it just simply was rubbish. A mate of mine has a Territory GHIA (35,000km on the clock now) and is extremely un-happy with it, and is about to trade it in for a Liberty GT. I bought a manual falcon for a sister, the gearbox was just rubbish. Don’t let me start on the falcons shape. Its just outdated by yearssssss.
Now the the commodores.
What was that like 3 recalls?
I love the VE, no doubt about that, but 3 recalls is that time period is not impressive.
But don’t get me started on the Epica and Captiva. Both made in korea, and let me tell you they hide the compliance plates well! Even the salesman refuse to admit where there made, i asked one “Are there made in belgium” Salesman 2 “I don’t know”
If Holden, or in fact any car maker does this, they will lose sales.
The 380-
One cra i’ve never driven, it has good review, but just doesn’t sell. I personally dislike the shape.
And to Toyota, I do admit there quality is slipping, well sort of.
The South African corolla was pretty dodgy, but they learn’t and are now building the corollas in Japan.
The Aurion and Camry are Australian built cars, but still exceed the falcons qaulity. If this new Falcon isn’t a hit, I have grave fears for Ford Australia.
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