TRD Aurion Indefinitely Withdrawn From Sale
19 Sep, 2007
172 Comments 
Editor’s note and update:
Since many of you are still missing the update we ran on the story, I thought I’d clear the air on this issue.
One of our readers had informed CarAdvice last week of a crash involving a silver TRD Aurion in Melbourne, this was published alongside the report from Toyota that the TRD Aurion range had been withdrawn from sale.
Although we did not make a link between the two incidents in any way, many of you assumed the crash was the reason behind the withdrawal. This is not so. As previously mentioned, the withdrawal is due to a single engine failure, which did not result in an accident.
What is clear now though, is that the withdrawal from sale of the TRD Aurion is not related to the alleged crash.
The TRD Aurion should hopefully be back on sale before the end of the month.
Alborz.
Toyota has confirmed the initially reported accident involving the TRD Aurion was not related to the issues currently plaguing the model.Mike Breen from Toyota Public Relations has confirmed that a “sales stop has been placed on the TRD Aurion.”Mr Breen says that “This action has been taken as a result of an engine failure in a Toyota dealer vehicle. “The cause is currently under investigation and is not believed to be linked to the supercharging or power output of the TRD Aurion.
Sources inside Toyota have this morning suggested that Toyota have indefinitely stopped the sale of the new TRD Aurion due to “issues” – presumably issues stemming from under the bonnet.
CarAdvice is waiting for comment from Toyota to confirm the allegation. Although we didn’t have any issues with both TRD Aurion test vehicles we have driven, Toyota will presumably go to efforts to check dealer and marketing vehicles, along with customer vehicles if requested. In the mean time read our TRD Aurion Review.
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September 19th, 2007 at 11:27 am
********PRIMO*******!
LOL!!!
Maybe BigT have just twigged that no wood-ducks would pay that VERY silly price for a FWD with a body kit!
GOLD!!!
Cheers
F-O
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:31 am
oh dear…
This is not a good start for TRD,
Although the FPV Typhoon had similar issues and a massive recall, and that is still one hell of a car, TRD will get it right eventually.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:40 am
FWD+240kw=AWH (Accident Waiting to Happen)
Perhaps someone figured out how to switch the stability/traction control off.
Let’s hope it can be fixed before anyone gets hurt.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Ive heard of two cases, Im not sure if you guys were suggesting its the car handlings that caused a crash? But from what I hear its solely an engine related problem, not the car causing people to crash. Not great for TRD at all.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Lol BlueBlood quiet for a while now he comes out of the woodwork. This isnt good, in fact Id say its embarresing for TRD… but given the standards set from FPV and HSV and the like, they are still well within local benchmarks of quality and reliability.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Paul…how is an engine problem not the car causing the crash?
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:46 am
So if your engine seizes up for example that causes a crash? Its an unconfirmed report that incident involving a crash, it could very well be unrelated and just the salesperson pushign the car to hard, like many Holden and Ford fans do, making the news very often.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Hello Paul, I’ve missed you mate.
I have to admit this is very unusual for Toyota, and I don’t know of any new performance car that hasn’t had teething problems, we shouldn’t be too hard on them.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
hang on the clutch problem with the typhoon wasnt an FPV problem, what is was is that the straight 6 produced a unique harmonic which broke the clips on the clutch. The same clutch used on a Ferrari Enzo. And all this did was make it so you couldnt get the car in gear. And there have been no problems since. At least it wouldnt have made you crash.
Anyway safe money is that salesman got a bit excited and didnt know how to control a High Powered FWD car.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Does this mean that when I said these cars are to dangerous for young people to drive then maybe they also are to dangerous for older people to drive?
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Yeah, just as dangerous brake hose, fuel pump and seat belt recalls. I wouldnt be jumping to conclusions quite yet, as I said I think the salemen crash was unrelated but people are drawing links. If it was related to the engine problem, then he would have had to have been very unlucky.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
lol obbviosely didnt test it to much to see if there were any problems with the new bag of shit and paul u said to me the other day that the trd aurion had more power and torque than the current xr6 turbo and u are wron the current xr6 turbo has 245kw and the aurion is only 241kw the xr6 turbo has 480nm of torque the aurion has only 400nm of torque so i think before u speak u should at least check the facts before u speak
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Hahaha Tony M I like your thinking! I guess we cant look foreward to any more reviews or tests on it at this stage from you guys. There goes my Saturday morning mind you would be interesting to hear what the salesman’s excuse for not having one to drive would have been!
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Paul, you are a trajic case of one-eyed.
You will continue to offer lame excuses for this lame excuse of a car. Stop comparing it to HSV or FPV. I’m not a Ford lover, but the FPV is streets ahead of this TRD thing, and not quite as good as the HSV :)
Those of us with some life experience just knew it always was going to be a POS.
There are rumours that the engines are failing – if that’s true, and you are driving a FWD car which seizes an engine, there’s a good chance the drive might lock, causing the ultimate torque steer experience. Another possibility is a rod through the block, causing oil to cover the front tyres and causing the ultimate lack of steer/stop ability.
Either one could easily result in a crash. Melbourne has had a few wet roads lately, so maybe the salesman dude decided to plant the thing in the wet and found the equation of massive HP through FWD doesn’t work real well on a wet road…
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
i dont mean to hav a shot at u reckless1 but ford is miles ahead of hsv in the way that its f6 typhoon has less power than the hsv range but can still beat it in take off
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
So Toyota is pulling sales indefinitely? hmmm not good.
Would this suggest Toyota has issues like everyother manufacturer?
Supports my theory Toyota is no longer miles ahead than any other make.
Not forgetting the previous camry had recalls like the locals…Paul?
Honestly the reviews i’ve read so far don’t put this supercharged Aurion ahead of FPV or HSV.
Vote:I wonder why Mazda and Subaru used AWD and not just FWD to channel so much power through the wheels?
September 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
So close to launch too…not even a couple of years of real world use…
Vote:I’d love to hear the speal Toyota execs will use now.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
No one should be making any accusations at all why the accident has accured. With absolutely no details on hand about situation then every scenario passed by either a Toyota lad or a Ford man would be nothing more just an unfounded accusation until details of the incident and why this problem has occured has been made available to the public.
Over the years, there have been countless faults with HSV/FPV vehicles and even more accidents and fatalities associated with them becuase of speed and inexperianced drivers.
Anyone wether young or old who is inexperianced with high powered motor vehicles being FWD, RWD or AWD are extremely vulnerable to accidents.
RECKLESS – i have witnessed an uncountable amount of incidents of drivers loosing control of RWD vehicles in the wet. Don’t go making accusations that are nothing but unfounded comments until further notice.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
It appears that the Big T left the “U” out fo the TRD. No body in their right mind would try putting so much power in a front wheel drive. Anyway, we will wait and see if anybody is game enough to race in Production Car races. There was somebody trying to race a Mit 380, and I don’t think they have finished a race yet.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
“salesman dude decided to plant the thing in the wet and found the equation of massive HP through FWD doesn’t work real well on a wet road…”
Reckless1
and having the massive power going through the rear wheels on a wet road works better?
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Big Bear…
My point is lauch quality…many claim Toyota is better, this would suggest they are not.
Vote:‘Taken of sale indefinitely’ has NEVER happened to any HSV or FPV over the last 10 years.
Particuarly so close to launch.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Okay now Ford Australia TAKE NOTICE!!!!! Why on earth try and change the I6 to V6 when things like this are bound to plague the USA version of V6. BEWARE….bring back the I6!!!
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
lol, the US will have 4 years worth of use before we get the duratec V6.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
“…many claim Toyota is better”
I think there is a difference here between “Toyota” and “Toyota Australia”.
Toyota Australia always seem to get stuff things up (remember the Turbo Corolla Sportivio?).
In Japan the Camry/Corolla/Yaris are all available in all-wheel-drive variants. They also have the RWD Toyota Crown (which is comparable to the Commodore/Falcon here). I don’t see why Toyota Australia had to make their high-output performance variant a FWD Camry.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
All i want to say to Toyota is now you have time make it a rear wheel drive car. 240kw in a front wheel drive car is way to much thats what the problem is.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Holy CRAP!
I have one on test in my garage RIGHT NOW…!
I’m calling Mike to find out what’s going on
Shame, coz I like this jigger
Tom
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Widened Camry with poor taste body kit. Driven by people that hate Ford and Holden and obviously like torque steer
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
the only good thing about having the v6 in the new fords is that the will be twin turbo= more fun
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
This is a good thing for Toyota. It is a lesson that they must learn….A poorly developed local adaptation is no subsitute for proper factory development. The smirking overpaid Toyota Australia Execs and their marketing minions should not try to re-invent the definition of the Australian perfomance sedan with a FWD widebody camry called Aurion. They should wait for the expensive Lexus IS-F in 2008
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Gods, people.
They’re *cars*, not football teams.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
“They’re *cars*, not football teams. ”
Tell that to the bloke who bought to Veyrons because he couldnt decide on what colour to get….
ANYWAY:
I’ll wait until the *real* story gets out before making a judgment on the TRD.
Who knows what the circumstances were…
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
We talk about cars on this website…not football teams
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Two words for those that cant wait to drive the TRD Aurion to consider…”Torque Steer”
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Quote= Adam ” Supports my theory Toyota is no longer miles ahead than any other make”. Was just interested how you came to this theory hmmmm ? Although that is your theory so i can relax now :o) Hey by the way ever spelt your name backwards ? Mad A..
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
lol…
Well i get tired of hearing how Toyota is bullet proof for quality…they are not.
Last year they had a record number of worlwide recalls.
FPV or HSV have never launched a vehicle then one month later, pull sales indefinately…
I work in the auto trade…i see used vehicle problems all the time, including toyotas…
Regards
Vote:Mada…:)
September 19th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Haaa yeah fair call! personally it sounds better to me when you say “Ill pick you up for a spin in my new HSV Maloo” or ” Ill pick you up for a spin in my new Toyota” LOL! going by the Aurion that means literally spin…. in circles…
Vote:Harshhh
September 19th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Yeah I agree, I think the local brands are great…. seat belt, fuel pump, brake hose recalls, rock solid quality. And ther V8s are some of the finest going around, they dont suck down oil quicker then you can refill and their brakes on the cars dont fade at all!!
Get real you bogans, if anything, maybe the fact that the TRD Aurion was developed in Aus is the problem… because when its up to our Jap friends they tend to get it right! Now I know that looks very un-patriotic, but hey, I enter 1 billion dollar VE Commodoore as exhibit 1A of poor Australian engineering.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Haaaaa thanks Paul love you too! (Bogans haaaa) Nah i dont mind the Jap’s there ok…
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Boo hoo, TRD is a lemon….I can’t stop crying…..
What a joke. It isn’t a minor component recall here, this is a stop on production……get real. No comparison.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Yes they stop production when there is a problem… Holden keep it going and smile in your face knowing that their V8 sucks down oil faster then the trip it takes to go down to the local store and buy some more. So there is a comparison, one is doing it to ensure customers get the best product the other couldnt give a fark. And its still going on, look a the 2 star Barina, the salesmen conning people into buying that piece of Korean jink ‘oh it has dual front airbags’. Holden = SCUM
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
I Reckon you love the Barina deep down Paul as you compare every car to it ? So Paul do you love the Barina ???? Come oooonnnnn!
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Just read a piston and conrod parted ways in the TRD engine, OUCH.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Paul quit deverting attention off Toyota onto another brand and just accept that Toyota aren’t the faultless company you think they are.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
MMM Blue Blood ,So gudgeon pin faulty not installed correctly or not strong enough for the application?
What does this engine rev too ?
So I guess we had a few bent bits then?
Who are TRD getting their rods and pistons from ?
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Lol yes 250zx I love the Barina, in fact I own one, Ive affectionality named it Coffin on Wheels.
BlueBlood, yes, so I dont know how thats linked to the crash? Im sure its could lead to it if the guy was extremely unlucky, personally I place my money on it being unrelated.
Myke I dont think their faultless, in fact I do mention on rare occasions faults. But they have a far superior record to our local brands.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Something I heard in another forum, prity much baseless but could be true… its claimed the TRD Aurions with problems were in fact reasonably old and had been subject to some track excercises (ie thrashed). Still not really an excuse for such a problem.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
at last the perception of toyotas quality is un touchable has finally been thumped back down to earth. im not one to say bad things about toyotas but it amazes me how people never seem to see faults in toyotas.
previously i have listed quite a list of problems with camrys and stated that the camrys i know have had 2 recalls to my falcons big fat zero, yet people still dont recognise the point i try to make in that toyota quality is no better than fords (i wont say holdens because their bad history takes a lot of beating)
oh when i say problems with camrys in fairness i am talking about from when they started pumping them out here (OZ). my knowledge/ experience from before that isnt as good
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Looks like I have my reply hey Andrew,lol.
My experience with the SV21 Camry was always good, a whole lot better than any other fleet car were were servicing at the time. I know when they went wide bodied there were a few problems but overall they were a VERY reliable car. Oh and the Commy was the worst in the fleets to service then.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Not good to see Toyota have this occur. So much for quality and irrespective on what Toyota says whether problem limited to older cars it is bad. Must admit in the grey colour the car looks bit better (slightly).
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Toyota is reliable, yeah badly damaged here? Is it a problem from Japan or from input here? Anyone know whether this car is 100% made in Japan????? Suspect it might have Aussie input.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
klink are you serious? you think this car is 100% jap made?
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Iam certain it has Aussie genes fully? What Iam eluding too if it is a motor issue or anything else related to mechanical – that item/s might be made elsewhere. Obviously Aurion made Downunder.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
missile,
Vote:yeah it must be us aussies he he he
but one thing there is no denying toyota quality over the last 5 years has been no better than fords. i can actually cimpile a list of toyota problems in the last 5 years that actually outshine fords but to be fair i call it even.
some people just cant cop that
September 19th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Japan has the quality and checks; Aussie made is less quality somewhat.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Just threw the fishing rod out for a bite? Aurion is made Downunder
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
I know what caused it…………………….. The engines were all installed facing the wrong way.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Paul really is correct what he at 5.43pm eludes to Aussies and Japan
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
LOL Steve, fuuny guy……I use to say the same thing when a customer came in with a Chev,”mate your distributor is at the back thats your problem”
Your right Andrew no one likes to be told !
So are you off to Bathurst I asked you on the Cobra post last night but you had gone! OH got my BMWM3 anti spam word again,cool!!!!!!!
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Paul,
The facts are over the last 15 months since June last year Ford have had 2 product recalls (Brake hose and LPG O-ring where the supplier was at fault) and Toyota have had 2 product recalls (Dimmer switch and TRD Aurion – problem unknown). So I guess Australian boguns who love Fords drive such inferior models as compared to Toyotas where statistics reveal the same number of recalls. VE has had a few more recalls than both Toyota or Ford but get your facts straight first.
Research done on the Caradvice website since June last year. Have a look yourself.
Cheers. :)
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Talking about handling in the wet,it got a bit HECTIC for Nissan Skyline this afternoon on his way to MACCAS if he reads this he knows who he is.
He got away with it this time.
Wet roads are here after a dry spell.
Keep it sane on the roads.
Regardless of AWD RWD OR FWD they can all lose it.
Await with interest on the official word from TRD or Toyota.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
westy, the last gen camry also had a fuel tank recall too (although a bit longer than 15 mths ago though) but most people have forgotten about that i think. and along with recalls they have had door rubbers splitting etc and very very poor cloth trim which pills like mad and other niggling little problems.
yeah LPG o ring recall was even out on the commy too as they both sourced the same part from the same manufacturer. i know holden dont do LPG in house but the systems they refer you too use the same o ring.
has the brake hose been a proper recall yet? anyway it might as well be if not. yep its just a silly rubber hose from an outside manufacturer there at fault. if you looked into it im sure you would find that holden and toyota also get supplies from the same manufacturer. ford should really be going pirelli or who ever it is to foot the bill for what it has to replace
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Hey Andrew think PBR ,they make just about all brakes components in Aus ,they are normally a good producer though. I guess everyone is going down hill in quality these days though.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Paul said
September 19 2007 @ 5:43 pm
Yeah I agree, I think the local brands are great…. seat belt, fuel pump, brake hose recalls, rock solid quality. And ther V8s are some of the finest going around, they dont suck down oil quicker then you can refill and their brakes on the cars dont fade at all!!
Get real you bogans, if anything, maybe the fact that the TRD Aurion was developed in Aus is the problem… because when its up to our Jap friends they tend to get it right! Now I know that looks very un-patriotic, but hey, I enter 1 billion dollar VE Commodoore as exhibit 1A of poor Australian engineering.
Paul, you know jack s__t about any cars it appears. You have no reason to call us Holden or Ford owners bogans just because we dont drive A TOY OT. Yes Toyota’s are a Toy not a mans car.
The VE Commodore has set high standards of excellence in what can be done for a car for half the money the imports attract. I for 1 will not drive Japanese cars until they stop killing Whales for their eating pleasure.
Andrew M said
September 19 2007 @ 7:27 pm
at last the perception of toyotas quality is un touchable has finally been thumped back down to earth. im not one to say bad things about toyotas but it amazes me how people never seem to see faults in toyotas.
previously i have listed quite a list of problems with camrys and stated that the camrys i know have had 2 recalls to my falcons big fat zero, yet people still dont recognise the point i try to make in that toyota quality is no better than fords (i wont say holdens because their bad history takes a lot of beating)
Um Andrew M, I think you should check out the vehicle recalls for the last couple of years. Toyota has over 150,000 recalls, Ford Australia, over 60,000 cars recalled and Holden less than 20,000 cars infact around 16,000 so that puts your theory in the crap bin. Maybe you should read the facts before putting down Holdens which my family have driven since the 1950’s and I have driven my whole driving history which is over 20 years and I have had no recalls and all my cars have been brand new. And for what few recalls Holden have they at least put in a recall notice as soon as a problem is noticed. As with all totally brand new cars there are always early bugs, thats why I dont buy cars with compliance plates less than 6 months from the initial launch to the public of a car.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
QUOTE = The VE Commodore has set high standards of excellence in what can be done for a car for half the money the imports attract
Hahahah I stopped reading their, you had me in stitches. Billion dollars… a recall within weeks, 3 recalls to date… all of which are rather major componetry. Yes, high standards of excellence indeed!
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
To be honest Paul is correct in my view… the Japanese have been making cars longer without overstating how much is spent and doing it smart (albeit at times with bizzare designs). The Commodore has had quality issues regularly, as most cars like the Falcon, etc, etc
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
BEGS THE QUESTION… with all the hi tech slick commercials how can 3 major recalls be tolerated for the so called Car of the Year. LOL.
I used to like the look of the Commodore (more so from side on and behind car) and the more you see it from front on, rear on particularly is ugly and side on when right beside car the flares are way way too big and ghastly looking and Holden would of been smart to lessen front one that meets into front bumper and more so rear one should of had the rear bumper bar extended further out to meet flare. The lights on the rear do not suit the car as with flares it looks to drawn out wide and ruin look in my opinion. The rear needs better lights to blend in more traditionally then current lights.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
if Holden and Ford drivers shouldn’t be called bogans for driving, well what they drive, ( the way they drive them : if you’re even slightly intouch with the current day you’ll know the majority of hoons are around in commowhores).. then the same argument applies that Toyota/ Jap car owners shouldn’t be labelled anything either.
I’m quite happy to compare my Jap import to whatever you’re currently driving joohnno, mind you the reason why I did get an import is because I myself am not a fan of the Toyotas that are supplied to Australia, hence I got one in from Japan where they get proper rwd versions and better options.
Before labelling what’s a mans car and what not, do a bit of research yourself mate, you’d be surprised at what Toyota has to offer, keyword Toyota, not Toyota Australia.
“I for 1 will not drive Japanese cars until they stop killing Whales for their eating pleasure.” >> err do you know how many jobs Toyota Australia provides to Aussies here? yes Toyota you know the same Toyota we’re talking about, the Japs , I repeat the JAPS.
Apply the same rule that you so huffing and puffingly say to others and do some research coz as it appears you yourself know f__k all.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Well this is just more of the same from the mighty and greedy Toyota who feels it can better everyone by releasing a tarted up Camry.
Vote:Toyota isnt imune to recalls either, they have had their fair share of problems but people tend to forgive them more than most other manufacters.
All’s good, people will forget and Toyota will continue with their marketing juggernaut to convince the world they have the right car for everyone……NOT!
September 20th, 2007 at 12:05 am
“This is a good thing for Toyota. It is a lesson that they must learn….A poorly developed local adaptation is no subsitute for proper factory development. The smirking overpaid Toyota Australia Execs and their marketing minions should not try to re-invent the definition of the Australian perfomance sedan with a FWD widebody camry called Aurion. They should wait for the expensive Lexus IS-F in 2008″
Actually… hate to break it, but Toyota Execs are on a fixed salary just like everyone else who works for Toyota. Unlike Ford and GM who awards bonuses of upto 10 Million dollars for a successful project… HA…. funny. I think just making production date for a new car is considered a success.. So no, Toyota Execs are actually paid the same with small incentives even with successful results… because success is EXPECTED in the japanese culture.
I work for Toyota engineering been to Japan and currently USA… and I KNOW this for a fact.
And about this news… well I would also admit it, the last few years Toyota has had a lot of recalls.. especially here in the U.S, but mainly due to Suppliers… again… people here need to realize most of the times, problems occur when Suppliers stuff it up… and I’m sure this TRD Aurion being called back immediately.. is just to Toyota protocol as of late. They have been very strict when issues like this come up.
And funny to read someone say its bad to hammer a high-powered FWD on the wet…Really?… You must be kidding… Im pretty sure you’d do as much damage if you do it on a RWD also.
And I still would guarantee everyone here, Toyota is still better built than its american competitors… funny, Hyundai actually toppled Toyota this year for quality here in the states… but thats because they’ve copied Toyota almost blueprint for blueprint.. actually most of their new workers are ex-toyota… but the main reason toyota got beaten is due to the recalls on those full size trucks, Tundras over here… suprise surprise.. Supplier used “bad” batch of material for the camshaft….
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 7:04 am
Colonel Klink ,
Not sure where or what you are reading but what are the endless list of quality issues with the Falcon. Please elaborate. I found 2 over the last 15 months, same number as Toyota, for Camry, except the Falcon wasn’t stopped from being sold. Let me know your source as well.
Westy :)
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 7:18 am
All cars have issues, you are correct about Falcon.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 8:56 am
Westy the Camry ones were so minor, a frigging headlight dimmer switch or some crap. Look at the VE; seat belt – wouldnt wanna crash, because it unlatches itself! (major), fuel pump – there were leaks of fuel!(major), forgot the 3rd one and then Fords brake hose where we had people here saying they had experienced quite significant brake failure (major). This all compared to an engine which stuffs up, sure that aint great… but its not going to kill you either.
And people here often say Toyota has such a large market share because they offer a large range, well using the same logic, given they have such a huge range, their recalls have been within acceptable limits while Holden for example, their VE recalls alone are up their with Toyotas entire range!
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Toyota do have a large market share because they have some really good cars that are not freaky looking that are made well. Holden has slightly less range of cars and then Ford. Suggest Ford will be the dark horse as they have developed some great cars like Kuga, Verve and Mondeo and the sooner they update the butch ugly Territory and get rid of the Explorer and replace it with the Kuga the better. If you look through these car makers range of cars, none really really have an ugly car. Andrew, I would also reserve judgement with Toyota as it is to be proven yet whether the motor can be a life threatening situation (correct me if Iam wrong). Do admit the TRD in grey looks better, even with too busy front air dam!
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Funny that Toyota has a major problem on their hands and people start attacking Ford and Holden?!
What this means for everyone (re TRD Aurion engine failures) is that it happens to the best of them.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 9:58 am
True… but still frequency is an issue. And also have to consider, they essentially strapped a supercharger to an engine that it wasnt designed orignally to have… not saying this means the TRD is bad… but Toyota engines do what they are designed to do, in the case of the Aurion + Camry etc, they tick over day after day for many years. In this case, it wasnt designed to have a supercharger, so its having problems, although Im sure it might just be a supplier issue so it may turn out to be ok for TRD. Why they didnt just use the direct injection version of the 2GR I have no idea though, it has 230kw and 380Nm… and there aernt issues with intake temps and all that crap of a supercharger. Not to mention the R+D that would have went into the TRD could eventually have been applied to the next Aurion which would potentially get the direct injection variant.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Ummm Paul a Piston and Conrod parting ways i think is a very major problem. And a seized engine can cause an accident either from locking up the driving wheels or dumping oil onto the road.
Anyways its safe to say the accident with the salesman was driver error but if you dont know the different driving characteristics of FWD or RWD cars if an emergency happens in a setup your unfamilar with your more likely to have an accident. Hence why every driver should be taught how to drive in all 3 drivelines.
Whoops went on a tangent there
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 10:44 am
So, Toyota didn’t engineer something right the first time?
It appears they rushed this to market, but no…they are not trying to compete with FPV and HSV.
The reality is Toyota has become the biggest seller worldwide, hence the bigger number of recalls…only natural.
If i recall correctly Ford and GM were the biggest sellers for the past 60-70-80 years?
nothing stays the same, its all sings and round da abouts.
Vote:September 19th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Update:
Vote:The Accident initially reported is not related to the issue with the sale withdrawal
September 20th, 2007 at 11:26 am
I dont think they rushed it… I would be waiting for the full story on why there have been failures before jumping to any conclusions. As far as I know only like two cars have had problems, both didnt cause a crash, and both were subject to track excercies. It may have nothing to do with design and just be unfortunate, due to a bad batch of parts as another poster has alluded to… part of me thinks this would be the case as the direct injection variant of the 2GR has similar power and torque figures but doesnt have these problems (assuming bar direct injection all other components are the same) not to mention they did test this vehicles to a reasonably extent and such a failure isnt something that usually gets through that.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 11:28 am
so why the indefinate stop sale?
if it’s only teething problems manufactures don’t usually stop sales.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Well you dont know in this case… for starters the TRD wasnt going to get huge sales, so since its small scale they are stopping sales. Linked to this point, given its relative low demand, Toyota may not want to risk further ruining their image as being reliable or TRDs image which hasnt even been developed yet, so they want to ensure this issue is dealt with properly before releasing more cars with potentially more problems.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 11:47 am
FPV and HSV do small sales too.
The issue IS serious if they have put a ’stop sale’ order, thats my point.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 11:48 am
either that or they wouldn’t have a clue whats wrong…lol
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
All Toyota have to go on is their 1 million sales blah blah blah which Paul you jumped on the band wagon about how great they are but as i said the faster you churn out cars the less is invested in certain details because they have now set a standard! so no time to muck around churn and burn ! Because a company sells a million cars doesnt make it the best by a long shot and the way they have been marketing this car (AFL adds every 5 bloody minutes) they have had a high demand and alot of pressure to get this car out and on the road…. But at what cost??
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
While they’re at it, they should include 6-speed manual and 4WD.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Noooo…that would be entering the true high performace market…Toyota is aiming for the conservative end of the market!
No manuals…
No AWD or RWD…
Just Torque steer and body cladding…
Toyota needs some new stylists and suspension engineers.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
I was being sarcastic, by the way
Regards
Vote:Mada…:)))
September 20th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Paul,
Only a dimmer switch eh…..obviously Toyotas aren’t driven after dark!
Funny comment that one.
Westy :)
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Paul,
Also we must all remember recalls are usually in place to prevent accidents before they happen. So all makers are good in that they do inform the customers. I would rather that than not being informed but I think it’s horses for courses in that any recall can prevent accidents from happening. That’s the whole point of a recall I would have thought how insignificant WE might think they are.
Westy
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Yeah, loss of head light function is really only minor – What the ….?
Vote:Add in seat back failures, steering failures, fuel leaks & potential fires, brake failures….. all very minor problems really.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Has anyone noticed how much the front of the car looks like a VE Commode? Thought it was a HSV when I first saw it……………
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Umm no… how the hell did you think it was a HSV apart from the colour!?!?
As for the rest, yeah a headlight dimmer is far worse then fuel leaks, faulty seatbelts and brake failure… get real. Just like people as soon as this news came out tried to link it to a crash… clutching at straws?
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Paul,
Vote:Perhaps you dodn’t realise, the “dimmer switch” failure caused the headlights to fail, predominantly during continued high beam use, ie in the country. Let you into a little secret – it’s actually dark without your street lighting, when headlights fail at 110 km/h its a pretty ordinary experience.
September 20th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Hahha well for starters its news to be it happened during high beam use, the recall had nothing to do with that, it was both low and high beam. Regardless, its hard not to feel you are clutching at straws, mentioning the country, mate unless things have changed last time I was out that way there werent heaps of Camrys going around, let alone unlucky enough to be driving at night, at 110km/h, and having the headlight totally fail. Call me crazy but I would think fuel leaking, seat belts being ineffective and brake failures as being far more serious then 1 camry in the country having headlight failure.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Paul, what are you on?
The fault was caused by frequent swithching high/low OR coninued high beam use, all typical country driving. So now you think Camrys don’t leave the 50 km/h suburbia – clearly YOU don’t. 15 km from the Adelaide CBD you can be on a 110 km/h rd. You don’t have to be 6 hrs from a CBD to be doing high speed country driving. Plenty of normal “cars” perform interstate trips, yes even Camrys.
Yes fuel leaks, seats suddenly collapsing, brake failures and steering failures are ALL CAMRY RECALLS!
Look up sarcasm in the dictionary. Did you know the word gullible is not in the English Dictionary?
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Did you mate? I think its absoltely clutching at straws trying to suggest a headlight failure is up their with leaking fuel, brake failure and faulty seatbelts. But hey thats just me. What is next… the 2 star Barina is a decent vehicle?
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Thats me if it wasnt already clear ^
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
No the Barina could be 5 stars crash rating and still be shyte.
All the failures mentioned can be attributed to Camrys and all are serious, to suggest otherwise is stupid. Your comment re country driving and lack of even the basic understanding of what a total headlight failure on a dark road at 110 km/h is like perhaps only proves your stupidity.
Name change doesn’t help credibility.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Gee, never would have geussed it was you Paul…..
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
curious,
paul used that mame in another post to illustrate his point and im guessing he simply forgot to change it back.
paul, the headlight dimmer thing also affected other parts of electronics not just headlights and in bad cases the full wiring harness needed to be replaced. not that that changes the severity of the problem but a recall is a recall to me.
to be fair it is also unfair and inconclusive to say the engine problem didnt cause the crash aswell.
johnno,
Vote:mate its not a matter of how many cars are recalled its a matter of how many recalls there are. (thats how i see it)
the recall scoreboard should only tally per recall. for eg an LPG O ring recall for both holden and ford is 1 recall each each not 1000 for holden and 4000 for ford.
September 20th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Lol I dont think the engine failure caused the crash, I really done. As for recalls, fair enough, but Im sure you can see where Im coming from in relation to a headlight issue compared to something like fuel leaking. Both are bad, but one has, or should I say had a higher probability of resulting in a nasty incident.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
paul i see your angle and yes fuel leaks sound worse than light failure.
anyway a car manufacturer that had plenty of recalls VS none would not mean i would stray away. as long as manufacturers gladly fix what is to be done and you drive away again whats the difference.
its too easy….
just drop it in on its next service and while they change the oil and demand an arm and a leg for the service hey presto….recall no more.
recall history would be and is the last thing i would consider as a factor when i purchase.
Vote:i buy what i want/like/suits as a number one factor. if the manufacturer finds they want to replace something later on at their expence i say go for it
September 20th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Just read this on wheels site
“Toyota has denied the car.. was involved in a major crash..
Mr Breen said he approached the website which had reported the crash, telling its editor the report was incorrect..
We said that we considered that unprofessional, and we wanted the words removed entirely..”
So was it involved in an accident? You guys want a credible blog with the good oil.
I think this is important because making a connection between a fault and an accident implies the car’s fault caused an accident which is much worse for PR.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Liam, our original story said the car was involved in an accident, that has now been removed at the request of Toyota – we had originally simply put a strike through it.
A reader reported a crashed TRD to us last week and we are still waiting to get in contact with him for some further details and photos.
In the mean Toyota has also confirmed to us, that the crash (whether it happened or not is still not confirmed, we will have to wait to confirm that with the source) was completely and utterly unrelated, and hence the story has been altered.
Vote:September 20th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Continuing on with the recall/reliability theme –
Ford have two types of recalls – ‘Safety’ and ‘Program’.
Safety are obviously the ones that are made public and have to be fixed ASAP.
Program recalls are things fixed whenever the vehicle is in for its service i.e not an immediate concern. It is also not required for Ford to tell the owner that something has been changed/replaced/fixed in their vehicle.
Examples include brake hoses in all BA and on Falcons, electric window clips in Territorys, clutch clips in Fiestas, brake light assemblies etc etc.
So to say that Ford or Holden have had less recalls than Toyota is not being totally fair. No doubt other manufacturers have ‘Program’ type recalls as well, but you would expect there to far fewer of these with Toyota than Holden or Ford.
I am not against Holden or Ford and quite like the Territory and Falcon but I have an insider at a Ford service department who says the number of problems with both those models that is never made public is staggering and they would never buy one.
Back on topic – Toyota obviously feel this problem is a major concern and good on them for having the balls to take the Aurion off the market until it is sorted, knowing full well the crap they would cop for it. Hopefully they can get it fixed quick and it won’t have a detrimental effect on sales.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 6:46 am
Grump and co,
Here again I can see Ford and Holden get vilified needlessly when the issue here is Toyota’s testing procedures and QA. Obviously there is a serious issue to stop production otherwise why not just have a recall like Ford and Holden ?
I find it amazing how liberally a brush is cast in respect to Recalls with Ford and Holden. I owned a 2004 BA Falcon SR and had 0 issues or recalls with it.
I now own a 2007 AWD Territory SR and to date it is great, no issues…love the 6 speed.
Let’s face it. Toyota stuffed up with the TRD Aurion. Not enough testing was done before release and here is the result. I can just hear what everyone “PRO” Toyota would be yelling if it had been an FPV or HSV.
Hopless Toyota, just hopeless.
Westy :)
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 9:41 am
Westy you are correct… TOYOTA who was responsible for TRD in this model just dam well amateurish and hopeless alright. Touch of arrogance perhaps and not match R&D downunder!
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 9:50 am
What klink… arrogance and cant match R+D downunder? The TRD was developed essentialy in Australia, the Japanese component, the standard Aurion, has no issues. And tbh I say this, but people are jumping to conclusions, it might just be a simple issue of a poor quality part coupled with the fact that the vehciles in question were thrashed around tracks. But I respect peoples right to ahve a go, because its true Westy, Id be ripping into FPV or HSV. But on the flip side, there is good reason to, as they have a poor history.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 9:59 am
Paul, can you please elaborate on this so called “poor history”?
I don’t recall HSV or FPV ever removing a car from sale due to extremely volatile engine reliability issues.
Please don’t make things up just because they sound good…it makes you look like an amateur.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 10:30 am
>>Paul said
September 21 2007 @ 9:50 am
What klink… arrogance and cant match R+D downunder? The TRD was developed essentialy in Australia, the Japanese component
Ha I’m laughing pretty hard now.
Vote:TRD + R&D in the same breath.
I hardly call 1 graduate Engineer at TRD bolting on supercharger onto a Engine he knows nothing about High Tech Engineering.
It was inevitable that these bunch of Sales & marketing cowboys at TuRD would get it wrong.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:31 am
Yeah they dont remove their vehicles… they keep selling them with a smile on their face. Mate HSV V8s would have to be among the most unreliable in the world… generally things like oil consumption aernt a great thing? Please correct me on that one. They also had piston slap issues in early production of the LS’.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 10:36 am
Bitter & Twisted you are retarded, thats the only way to describe it. A few Aussie companies were involved in the development of the TRD, including Prodrive, who are affiliated with FPV! Regardless, alot of work has gone into the Aurion, this isnt an XR6T which is identical to the XR6 in terms of braking, styling, suspension etc. THe TRD has far better brakes, suspension, minor structural work, a supercharger obviously, larger rims, interior improvements etc.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 10:59 am
>>Paul said
September 21 2007 @ 10:36 am
Bitter & Twisted you are retarded, thats the only way to describe it. A few Aussie companies were involved in the development of the TRD, including Prodrive, who are affiliated with FPV!
The defense of the weak, make a personal attack.
Actually Prodrive build the TuRD. They did no Engineering.
I’m talking about the engine which has no development other than a Bolt on Supercharger, & ECU remap, & a fancy new cover.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:15 am
What more is there to do on the engine may I ask? You are aware the Aurion engine is a variant of the 230kw 380Nm direction injection unit, in the top 10 of wards engine of the year, seen in the Lexus… I wouldnt think the power being developed is the issue here. Although I would say a supercharger places different stresses on the engine yes, but still.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:26 am
>>Paul said
September 21 2007 @ 11:15 am
I wouldnt think the power being developed is the issue here.
I disagree, I think the TuRD’s crude modification of the base Engine has gone beyond one of the design limits. Engines don’t throw rods/piston unless something major is wrong.
What more is there to do on the engine may I ask?
Lots, different pistons, compression ratios, connecting rods are good starting points when modifying an engine.
I should add that the 230kW DI version might be the same family (Just like Prado/Hilux), but that doesnt’ mean they share pistons/connecting rods.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:33 am
Paul,
Yeh those are amazing stats from that engine. The STANDARD inline 6 from Ford delivers more torque out of the box. Admittedly less power(ie no blower though). Strap a low psi Turbo to it and look at the result. 240kW+ and almost 500nm of torque. That engine is such an engineering marvel that Toyota and it can obviously take so much more power without re-engineering the engine……funny really. If it allegedly can’t handle that small increase in power it really does have issues.
But let’s wait and see what the issues really are until we cast final judgement.
Westy
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:38 am
Yes I agree, but if it does share the same internals as the direct injection, then honestly I see no reason for why they would do any additional work in that department, because it is capable of handling the power of the TRD.
Westy… I wasnt stating figure trying to make it look great. But the Inline 6 is also a 4L not 3.5L and inline… so it can handle abit more torque. Regardless, I would still back a Toyota engine to withstand something like an XR6T… we must remember these issue with TRD are linked to a ‘dealer vehicle’ which supposedly saw alot of the track and no doubt wasnt broken in properly. And at the end of the day, its 1 vehicle (although I heard it might have been 2) out of MANY around Toyota dealerships in Australia and a few in private buyers hands.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:53 am
>>Paul said
September 21 2007 @ 11:38 am
Yes I agree,
Thank you.
its 1 vehicle (although I heard it might have been 2) out of MANY around Toyota dealerships in Australia and a few in private buyers hands.
Given that they were planning on about 500/year.
Vote:Its been on sale about 1 month.
That make it 2 Failures for 40 vehicles.
or 5% explosion rate. (Allegedly)
September 21st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Yes….. but thats not considering variables such as the fact that out of those 40 vehicles, many of them have been thrashed around tracks during their break in period… not to mention it could just be something else! Very wishful your use of stats.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Bitter & Twisted, there’s 150 demo/promo cars out there, plus a “handful” in private sales, which probably indicates that there are about 160-170 TRD’s in total. But I think it’s probably something that they assumed would be OK and didn’t check, so have to now go back and reconsider.
Yes Paul, fuel leaks are bad news. CAMRY was subject to recall for fuel leak.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Paul,
The inline 6 can handle the torque by design not because of capacity. Remember the I6 variants range from stock standard 190kw 380+nm to Typhoon (of which the new one for 2008 is reckoned to have 300kW and 550+ nm) and I doubt the Toyo would handle those power numbers with exploding. That’s a side issue anyways.
The thing is these days generally you shouldn’t have to worry about engines being run in as they have tolerances built in and are thrashed under testing conditions so they can withstand what some numnut does when test driving.
Still I will wait until I hear what the dilemma is before casting my final comments.
Westy.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Im not sure about your ‘tolerances built in’, the whole point if break in, no matter what the design, is that they use a poor quality oil and it gives all the parts time to wear in. If your thrashing it during this stage, it isnt good.
As for I6, yes I know it has alot to do with design, balance, but dissplacement also helps. In fact on a disaplacement basis:
Falcon
95Nm per L
Aurion
94.29Nm per L
I think thats calculated right. So yeah not a huge difference. Eitherway I dont care about that… the issue at hands is the TRD recall.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Westy – what hard, undisputed evidance have you got to support your claim that the TRD Aurion can not support that much power ?? None at all so stop with the crap.
There has been literally hundreds of FPV/HSV that have broken down over the years for many differant and varing reasons.
Unlike Holden, Toyota wants to ensure a qualiy product to the customer and have taken it upon themselves to investigate the root cause of the indident. Unlike some other manufactuers i can name, Toyota takes a lot of pride in thier engineering and do not look upon failures light heartedly of which is why they have the earn’t themsleves the solid reputation they enjoy today.
Here is a great example of which defines a company of PRIDE and one that DOESN’T GIVE A SH*T.
When the GEN3 was released it became apparent the engine had many persistant flaws of which caused many owners alot of grieve. The GEN3 was/is notoriuos for hefty oil consumption, pistons slapping issues and even reported complete failings with very little KM’s on the ODO. Infact, there were even examples that were identified were some pistons were void of some rings.
But, despite the common isues that affected hundreds of examples – did Holden ever take it upon themselves to STOP SALE until the issues were correctly identified and fixed… NO – NO THEY DID NOT !!
Instead, Holden just done what they have done for generations – push ‘em out the door as quickly as possible.
Not Toyota – there maybe (or maybe not) be an issue but to be sure either way, they do what they do best and investigate before going any further.
That is the differance between a good company and a crummy one.
Vote:September 21st, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Bitter and Twisted – you are another clown that has absolutely no evidance what-so-ever to be passing unfounded crap that you are.
What sort of an idiot are you going to feel like if Toyota identifies a one of issue and the remainder serve fault free.
A fool, that is how you will be looked upon by people like myself.
A why do cars like FPV/HSV that have so much more grunt can barely beat the TRD Aurion by a few puffs of a second. Piss poor to me.
Here is a 400NM Front Wheeler giving so called Big Grunty Rear Wheelers are far crack of the whip. The Aurion was even able to maintain pace in the ladened uphill dash of which all the extra torque of the Falcon should have beaten it comfortably but it barely opened half a second on it.
Vote:September 22nd, 2007 at 9:29 am
Dingo,
Stop being a baby. Toyota have a problem and we are all waiting to hear what it is. Because you like Toyota and your precious brand has a problem don’t lash out at me. Stop your own nattering. Literally hundreds of FPV’s have broken down have they…and you have a source of this information from where ? You know all the owners personally ?? Come on give me a break.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and the TRD is a poor example of a sports car. Unfortunately if FWD was a performance way to go then I am sure F1 would be using FWD if it is sooooo good. The little torque steery buzz box is out of it’s league. Stop being defensive as it is well short of it’s intended mark and CAN’T match an FPV Typhoon. Not even close. So back to the drawing board bud.
400nm you say….geez so scary that is……I could walk faster.
Westy :)
Vote:September 22nd, 2007 at 11:02 am
Can someone confirm that if this cars engine seized in gear then you would have no power assisted brakes or any steering due to to the wheels being locked cause its FWD ? Wouldn’t this then cause a stack ?
Vote:September 22nd, 2007 at 11:47 am
Hey Missile, hope well today! You were correct about other thread last night; mate talk about cracking up with tears (laughter). Well it is the best medicine and I overdosed on it! HA HA
WESTY, do agree about Toyota with TRD……. Paul and his beloved Toyota will give you a spin on that! I say flunked with Honours and they look stupid as they went on about it before release! Mr Toyota and his bean counters in Japan would be livid! Sure Mr Bean must of been on R&D of the souped up FWD wolf in girls clothing
Vote:September 22nd, 2007 at 5:54 pm
dingo and others like him
mate all this proves is toyota are only human too and not invincible as most of you toyota lovers like to think. thats all this argument is about at the end of the day.
the fact that they have removed them from sale pretty much says it is a design flaw or something needs to be strengthend up. if it were simple they would have been able to fix it on the run.
PS. paul stop breaking down motor stats into “per L” as you can not buy a motor by the litre. it proves nothing but the extremes you will go to to clutch at straws. whether you like it or not the falcon has 50NM more torque. dont try to manipulate it, it is what you get
Vote:September 24th, 2007 at 10:41 am
>>Dingo said
September 21 2007 @ 11:56 pm
Bitter and Twisted – you are another clown that has absolutely no evidance what-so-ever to be passing unfounded crap that you are.
Once again, I point out that personal insults are the defence of the weak. Don’t bother posting if you just want to defend your beloved Corolla.
Evidence: Wheels Magazine & Toyota media Release both talk about what work was done to the engine.
Vote:As for the other info, When Companies have big problems like this is not hard to find out down at the local pubs in Port Melbourne (After a few Ales!!)
September 24th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Andrew.M… it proves everything, you have someone saying the I6 has sooooo much torque yet its quote obvious that it doenst have heaps more torque then other engines.
As for Westy and Klink agreeing with him… well it shows how you people have no idea what you are talking about. For starters you say that it is a poor example of a performance vehicle, well I would suggest that a car which cant even withstand a handfull of laps around a track without fluids overheating and severe break fade, HSVs, is a POOR PERFORMANCE VEHICLE. The TRD Aurion might not be the fastest to 100 and it might not be the fastest around a track… but at the end of the day it offers a great compromise on all these things along with the quality, refinement and relaibility (1 car doesnt ruin many years of this) that only toyota can offer. And at the end of the day Westy you use the argument that RWD is best becaue F1 use them, FFS that is the dumbest argument ever… AWD is the best…. you are aware that racing cars have other issues to consider such as weight!?
Anyway for all those TRD haters, just look at these image of the TRD, sex on wheels… anyone who mentions this sh*t about it look worse then a regular Aurion sportivo has their head up their arse!
http://www.carsales.com.au/use.....Sort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|0&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1000&seot=0&__Qpb=true&Region=All%20Regions&Make=TRD&R=1708739&RegionID=&__sid=11533ADB3E5B&state_id=0&trecs=2
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 6:39 am
Paul,
Again remind me much torque the performance version of the I6 has please. Remind me how much torque the Typhoon has…..is it like 550nm ??? I can’t remember. The Aurion purports to be a performance version of it’s v6 and gets to 400nm. Let’s do those numbers again.
Typhoon 4L = 137.5 nm / L
TRD Aurion 3.5L = 114.3 nm / L
To match the Typhoon the TRD needs to have 481 nm.
Yes I think I know which one is waaaaaaaaay ahead in the torque/performance stakes and is that way by design. It can handle the torque. Plain and simple.
You do realise that the torque you have is what you use when getting a car off the line ????
You break it down to per litre but that makes no difference to a car. It doesn’t know that. It just uses what it has. The base Toyota has less. Simple really. I have researched some similar capacity V6’s to get the low down on torque figures. Here are a couple I have found.
Landrover Discovery 4L V6
160kW@4500rpm. Max Torque:, 360Nm@3000rpm
Ford Ranger 4L V6
154 kW 323 Nm of torque
Toyota Prado 4L V6
173kW 362Nm
These are just some I found quickly. As you can see, same displacement and less torque. So I guess I know which is the better engine for torque per litre by breaking it down to your numbers. The fact is the I6 does have more torque to use fullstop and that’s the point.
Paul you’re so funny about the F1 stuff. I am aware there are other issues….like power, weight, aerodynamics. What’s the premier motor racing category in the world today for normally aspirated cars…..let me think……aaaaaah yes last time I saw it was in fact Formula 1. Now, do they have AWD???
The definitely don’t have FWD as that would just be dumb.
Westy :)
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 7:09 am
WESTY… ever watched the movie ‘The Castle’. Remember one of the brothers in it, he was an ideas man. PAUL IS LIKE THAT MIXED WITH TRUCKLOADS OF THEORY AND YET TO STAND ON HIS FEET REALLY – HE PUTS UP A GREAT READ MOST TIMES AND PEOPLE GET RIGHT UP HIM REAL QUICK BUT HE IS GREAT AND AT TIMES IS FINE – MOST TIMES WELL…. YOU KNOW ?0*%#:”
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Lol mentioing the Typhoon, I dont think Toyota have a competitor for the Typhoon, so thats not a fair comparison. Torque aside (because the fact that the TRD maintained its gap in acceleration fully loaded against the competition in drives test between them suggests it doenst have any problems), what about the attack you put on the Aurion about it not being a ’sports car’? Tbh I agree, but EITHER ARE HSVs or FPVs! When they cant even make a handfull of laps around a race track it really brings their crediblity into question. Im not sure if the TRD has been put under the same conditions yet, but it has seen some track work, to date no really issues of overheating fluids, in fact its brake have been commended along with its sharp turn in and other positive handling characteristics. I think some people just write this car off because it is FWD, but Ive shown in other areas with an article comparing them, FWD can hold their own around a track.
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Paul,
You are good value. Like the banter.
Which of the following real “SPORTS CARS” are fwd.
BMW
MERCEDES
PORSCHE
LAMBO
AUDI
FERRARI
etc etc etc you pick the models as there are many.
I can’t list one in there. Of course there are many more sports cars but listing them all would be impossible.
For you crack about track work I certainly don’t agree. Do you watch any motorsport at all ?? Check out SBS on weekends and you will see FPVs/HSVs glady racing around against many other makes. Funnily enough they don’t seem to overheat or have brake problems as you report. Not sure where you get that information from and if it is even current. Certainly would like to know your source for that one.
In all honesty TRD have certainly got some power out of that V6 with a little help from the blower but I don’t think I would like to be tip toeing it around a wet track or road for that matter. Give me RWD with TC any day. I think you need to go for a test drive in a FPV Typhoon to get a true appreciation of what a 6 cylinder performance car should be like.
Cheers,
Vote:WESTY
September 25th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Guys,
Trying to explain anything technical to Paul is like flogging a dead horse – it is simply not going to work. THE END.
No matter how HARD you try, the poor guy just doesn’t have the grey matter required to understand a lot of the things that are explained to him.
It’s not his fault though I guess. (unless he uses drugs and that’s what has made him like he is today)
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Paul ive got you figured out… listen……..
so mum or dad either bought or told you which first car to buy (your camry) and because of that you think it or anything related to it is the be all and end all of cars.
am i right?
paul, even if you break down your per litre rubbish at least the falcon still holds an edge. i have never seen anybody view such stats in such a ridiculous manner before.
if you go by that then im assuming you would agree that the falcon is far more fuel efficient and much better for the environment.
bottom line the standard falcon HAS 50nm more torque than the base aurion and the F6 has 150nm more than TRD. dont try to twist it because YOU BUY A CAR AS A WHOLE PACKAGE GET IT YET?
Vote:if you go to look at an aurion and find that you want more torque then you look at a falcon the falcon simply has 50nm more. i know sales people are great at speaking rubbish but i bet they couldnt even tell my grandmother that the falcon doesnt have a bigger torque advantage
September 25th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Andrew.M, no you dont have me figured out… yes the Camry is my first car, but it isnt the be all and end all. Ive drivne a few cars in my short time on this earth, so Im not just someone who has 0 experience. In fact my next car wont be a Camry or an Aurion, even doubtful it will be a Toyota… given their lack of performance options (TRD Corolla WOULD change things!).
As for the rest, yes at the end of the day they have more torque. My point is a simple one, it isnt all that huge in comparison between an Aurion and a Falcon. You can consider it on a L basis because torque has a relationship with dissplacement. Regardless yes its about packages, imo as an overall package the TRD is ahead of FPV and HSV. Thats just my opinion. I dont want muscle, I want something with alittle refinement and style, which the TRD offers.
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Paul… if you believe it becomes true! Gee comparing a Aurion with Ford Falcon… well now I have had a HUUUUUGE laugh and dont know what you smoke but geepers must be some good solid shit!
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Umm Im confused, its wrong to compare an Aurion with a Falcon? Maybe you should stop smoking Klink?
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
PAUL…reality look at how you are in others eyes as you are really funny. Mate I do not smoke, but gee mate you sure create massive laughter for many and they giving you a caning!
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Yes a caning…. despite showing how the I6 simply doesnt have that much extra torque or because an F1 is RWD doesnt means its the best or FWD can still get around a track reasonably quick or TRD may not be a sports car but it certainly puts supposed performance vehicles to shame which suffer from brake fade and overheating fluids etc. Im the one doing all the laughing.
Vote:September 25th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
paul,
ok ill go with the way you think for a bit (which i think is absolutely ridiculous)
so do you agree that the falcon is far more fuel economical and much better for the environment than the aurion?
Vote:well because those things are related to displacement too
September 25th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Paul, mate read the comments wherever you frequent as you have some out there views and its great reading threads as comments around you says you must be smoking some serious stuff like Cheech Chong. No point getting shitty; you create it and then fall back into it and do really stink even more and then you have the weirdo bizarre thinking by suggesting you comments carry real weight. Hmmmm, Yes, I see, Oh yeah, I have come across this phenomenon before……
OK… lets look at it from your viewpoint as silly as that somehow is! The Hyundai Getz doesnt really lack that much torque compared to a Mazda 3 and it offers bang for your bucks. Or brake fade and overheating fluids you allege, well that is amazing too so much so I wont even comment.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Andrew.M… I dont know the emissions of the two, so I cant comment. In terms of fuel efficiency, as for its size, yes it would be more fuel efficient as its 4L compared to 3.5L while having comparable fuel efficiency. As an engine however, then I wouldnt be sure, as you would consider its fuel efficiency compared to the power it can produce… in which case I dont know. Anyway the whole point I was making about torque, or at least I meant to orignally make, is that the Aurions engine in terms of its output is not that far behind the Falcon, the stats would indicate this. Obviously in reality the Falcon has more torque, but when it comes to efficiency, producing the most torque out of the size engine you have… the Aurion is not far behind the Falcon. When you get to the Typhoon as you all love to mention, well I dont know… what boost is that runnning? Im sure I could get 500Nm out of a TRD, wouldnt last very long though, its my understanding they are running relatively low boost on the TRD and have achieved 240kw and 400Nm… not all that bad.
Klink… no now your being stupid. All Im going to say is RWD is better because F1 uses them, that is what people have been saying here, the people that are getting support. Although Id go one step further into stupidity and say RWD is better because motorbikes are RWD. Forget any common sense, like the engine is actually situated closer to the rear wheels and weight is a huge issue in racing cars… they are RWD… it must be better! Oh but then I will quote all the manufacturers are RWD (Like Audi and Lambos… which actually have predominantly AWD performance cars), forgetting that they usually use mid-engine and rear engine, so its really stupid comparing these to a front engine RWD Ford and Holden, they handle completely different. But hey, Im crazy, these are ‘bizarre’ concepts to grasp. Maybe in your little Ford and Holden worlds… but not in reality.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Same stuff dished up different name, hmmmmm yes that is Paul morphing into Toyota Paul…Aah yes, I see, mmmm (pause) interesting, I see! Iam not a ONE SLAB SIDED SUPPORTER LIKE YOU AND YES I DO LIKE FORD, BUT NOT AT EXPENSE OF OTHERS EG: AURION. Yes, the sweet smell of truth without weird science thrown into the equations Paul!
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 10:31 am
What next name Paul… PAUL PUP
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Mate there is a reason why my name has changed, I would have thought its obvious… someone else is using ‘Paul’ now. Funny you mention it though, ‘Roberto’.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Paul,
Your entire post which states that people were using “F1 is RWD so it is better” really shows just how much you missed the point that many were trying to explain to you.
They were using F1 is RWD as the EVIDENCE to backup their PHYSICS (yes, REAL WORLD NUMBERS). They were not using it as an ARGUMENT!!
This is where your lack of understanding lies! You read, and before you actually digest what is written, you simply shoot off the hip with your same old tired (and incorrect!) information.
Reading your last post mocking everything saying “F1 is RWD so it must be better, motorbikes are RWD so it must be better” really shows that you don’t have a solid argument so sarcasm now becomes your best friend. It’s not needed nor required here.
Unfortunately you are living in you lur little Toyota land of FWD and greatness… FWD is better you say! In reality??? NOPE!!
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 11:02 am
No it doesnt show that, it shows that Ive given up. How the f*ck does F1 being RWD when the engine ISNT up front like a Falcon or Commodore or has a massive wing to keep the rear down unlike a Falcon r Commodore shows the physics. Andrew.M in another article highlighted the best examples, at the drag strip, mentioing Formula 1 is just ridiculous, which was my point when mentioning how motorbikes are RWD. Its evidence of nothing.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 11:24 am
PAUL…I would of thought it was obvious why my name change as someone else was using Roberto sometimes (this was they cant get my name)!
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Well if you want to get technical Paul… a motorbike isn’t FWD as it is not good for handling AT ALL nor is it practical!!!
Explain how they would drive the front wheel?? Chain drive?? no! How can they?? the front wheel must turn left and right! Shaft driven with a CV(s) on the front nope! and why? becuase a motorbike is too light! Do you know what rotational intertia is Paul?? It is the relucatance of a body to change its current axis of rotation once it is spinning. I’m assuming you didnt understand that, but those are the PHYSICS reasons why a motorbike isn’t FWD!
Once again… just for you Paul… you said:
“How the f*ck does F1 being RWD when the engine ISNT up front like a Falcon or Commodore or has a massive wing to keep the rear down unlike a Falcon r Commodore shows the physics.”
OK.. READ THIS SLOWLY NOW PAUL… again… NOONE EVER SAID “F1 is RWD so it is better” What WAS said is that “AS F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport AND it is RWD” does that not hold ANY weight?? (Given that you cannot understand the rest??) Everyone was forced to use simplistic examples like that as you cannot understand the physics that is being explained to you!!
YOU are the one who INFERRED (Do you know what INFERENCE is Paul?) that people were saying “F1 is RWD so it is better!!!” YOU!
I was using F1 is RWD as an EXAMPLE of RWD and where it is used – just as I used ALL PERFORMANCE CARAS ARE EITEHR RWD OR AWD…. NONE are FWD!! AS AN EXAMPLE!! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID TO YOU FOR ONCE!!!!!!
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Mate Im not going to argue with you because your just nit picking. I use the RWD on a motorbike as a joke and then you try to lecture me about why they are not FWD as if I was suggesting they should be. Sounds like you want to argue for the sake of it, well Im done, you came late for this one… its finished.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Paul,
I do not want to “nit-pick” and “argue for the sake of it” as you put it. I simply want to state the FACTS. Not conjecture and heresay as some have done. You wrote using motorbikes as an example so I simply replied ON TOPIC to what you said.
And to avoid a discussion with me, please don’t tell me I “came late for this one.. it’s finished” Perhaps you have finished what you had to say, but please respect the rights of OTHERS (I.e. ME) to say what I want to also. This is a PUBLIC forums after all Paul. You can’t simply try and dictate to have things your way only – this attitude of yours comes across in how you post your ideas too. It’s an unattractive trait.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
HERE HERE HERE, I SECOND THAT MOTION… Ross dead right cobber! One needs ESP with him to firstly work out what he thinks and the real hassle I have is WHY DOES PAUL THINK LIKE THAT MOST TIMES.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
…. bit like putting Paul in a round room and asking him to find the corner. Instead of him going to the door he would be giving you his Toyota spiel or theories about quantum physics and other gibberish and prattle.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Colonel, Andrew M, Ross and others,
This has turned out to be a great post. Paul I think you are out numbered but still fighting to the end. Admire you for that. Well I am still waiting to hear how the TRD stuff turns out and let’s see what it is that broke.
FPV Typhoon runs 9 psi
XR6Turbo runs 6psi boost
Not sure what the equivalent is for TRD but I checked out the WRX Sti and it runs 11.6 psi just trying to get some performance figures out of another turbo’d car for example.
Westy :)
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Westy the STis run closer to 15PSI
Vote:the standard WRX runs around 12.5
at least for the GCB shapes
September 26th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Ross I didnt say you cant say no more, please dont throw allegations around, I simply implied that I was going… you can continue arguing with yourself if you please.
Westy, thanks… its good to hear varying perspectives, even if I dont agree.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Alborz,
Ok thanks kindly. I was trying to find the latest stats and that was as close as I could get.
Westy.
Vote:September 26th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Paul toyota pretty much admits it them selves as they make lexus’s RWD and their other performance cars and also their work vehicles. if it didnt really matter wouldnt they go for the cheaper setup (FWD)
Vote:is that enough for you.
i dont know why you have to take offence when people point out that a particular toyota set up might not be optimum.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Andrew M… stating the obvious, but you can only lead a horse to water and you can’t make it drink and Iam certain Andrew will be obtuse the the obvious (hang on he has new name again – WHATEVER PEOPLE WILL KNOW WHO HE IS!)
Vote:September 27th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Again you people are small minded on this, just because Lexus’ are RWD doesnt mean anything. For starters the biggest floor in your argument is that they offer it for the IS250 which has hardly any power or torque, certainly not enough to trouble a FWD setup. So this would suggest, as Ive said many times, that other variables like market demand influence them. RWD is PERCEIVED as being performance based (an article in another area referred to this, during the inception of FWD people branched into RWD camp and FWD camp) so companies naturally build to their market. The other point is that if it was truly for performance reasons, then theyd go for AWD and better yet, mid engine etc. They dont, because it has more to do with getting $$$ from what the market demands then producing a car that can go around a track really fast… something many of these cars wont ever see. So yes Klink you can lead a horse to water, but in your cases, you cannot make them drink when they are to caught up in their pro-RWD world.
Vote:September 28th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
If Toyota says they are now part of the Ford vs Holden war, they need to have a north-south engine rear-wheel drive car MADE IN AUSTRALIA! Not this east-west car.
The break down is most likey caused by car sales persons screeming the **** out of the thing, trying to impress the buyer. Like the MT Gravat Holden dealer screeming a new SS
Vote:up the mountan when the car had not done 1,000 KMs.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Yeah I would NEVER buy a dealer demonstrater… you can guarrantee they have been trashed during the breakin period where they shouldnt see anywhere near redline.
Vote:September 28th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Hey Paul you read this ? I have just found it ,released today from GO Auto.
TOYOTA Australia has yet to reveal the exact cause of a mysterious and embarrassing engine failure that led the company to withdraw its high-performance Aurion TRD from sale just weeks after it was released.
However, suppliers Prodrive, which modifies the basic Aurion for Toyota, and Eaton supercharger agent Harrop Engineering have both been cleared of responsibility.
Toyota maintains that the failure of the 3.5-litre supercharged V6 is an isolated case and has resumed production of the car, but stocks are being held back from dealers.
The company suspended sales of the TRD Aurion last week after an engine failed while being driven by a Melbourne dealer salesman.
“(TRD) are still doing their testing so they are not up to a point where they want to say anything yet,” said company spokesman Mike Breen on Monday.
“Once they got the engine back it was already detonated so it was hard to see what was cause and what was effect, so that’s been a challenge for them.
“They’ve been trying to replicate the situation the dealer had the car in to see if they could make it happen again and they’ve been checking the engines internals with an endoscope to see if there was any foreign matter inside the engines. But so far they haven’t found anything untoward.
“They still maintain it’s an isolated case, but until we are 110 per cent sure we’re just not willing to send them out. It might seem an over-reaction, but that’s the Toyota way.”
Mr Breen said that Prodrive was “totally in the clear” after checking the 150 cars built to date at its new facility near the Toyota factory in Altona.
“It’s not a Prodrive concern. One of the reasons (the engineers) wanted to look inside the engines was to make sure that during the changing of components some foreign matter didn’t fall inside inadvertently,” he said.
“They haven’t found anything to suggest that, and they didn’t think they would because the way things are done by Prodrive there’s no reason to think that anything could find it’s way inside the engine.
“Harrop dissected the supercharger that was on the car and checked it to make sure there were no problems with the castings or anything like that and they’re 100 per cent in the clear as well.”
Toyota had delivered only five cars to customers when the problem arose and has another 30 customer orders awaiting delivery.
Owners of the five TRD Aurions were not formally advised of the problem because Toyota is confident it is an isolated incident.
TRD launched the supercharged Aurion only last month after four years of planning and development. End of Story
Maybe some one ran normal unleaded in it and it ran lean and detonated,what you think Paul. I do find it hard to believe they cant find anything that caused it? Or does it have a knock sensor ?
Vote:September 28th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
Hey Paul ,did you read this ?
Vote:September 29th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Hmm interesting, yeah maybe they used normal unleaded that sounds like a logical explanation… but youd think the would have enquired the dealer about it, although maybe they lied to save their arse, who knows. Lots of speculation. Hopefully Toyota finds out or fesses up, eventually.
Vote:September 29th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Yep Paul you would think they would ask the obvious question on the fuel but quiet often we tend to always search for the most complicated reason for a problem.
I cant think of any other reason but that it didn’t have a knock sensor ,which would be madness on a supercharged application ,or that if low octane fuel has caused it to run lean the knock sensor it did have was faulty.
Either way I think Toyota know more than their letting on and they are going to have fess up if they have to make changes to the models that are already sold. Guess all will be revealed soon enough ha.
Vote:October 11th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
its back on sale now
http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2829928.aspx
Vote:October 13th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Hey Paul I wouldn’t read the latest Motor . The PCOTY 07.
The TRD Aurion made the grade but didn’t impress. Hey at lest it got in the class!
Here is what WAZZA said ” Really uninspiring.The highlight is definitely the engine,but the rest of the car just doesn’t inspire performance driving.You sit to high with not enough support…it just does an average job of being something its not…..a performance car is more than just extra power.A lovely family car though!” end of quote.
That was a bit mean!
Vote:October 13th, 2007 at 10:50 am
missile i would have to agree.
Vote:the interior of the TRD looks (and seems to be set up) the same as last gen camry’s i have driven.
they are totally uninspiring and yes first thing i noticed was how high you do sit. the second was the ridiculous placing of the handbrake.
im sure the TRD seats are a bit better but apparently they still sit quite high. i think the way the dash rolls to just looks awkward
December 6th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
This car is POS!!
…Take that Toymotor Paulie!
Vote: