Victorian Assistant Commissioner (Traffic and Transit), Ken Lay, has been caught and fined for speeding through Too0borac, a regional town in Victoria west of Seymour.
Mr Lay was measured by the mobile speed camera travelling at 83km/h in a sign posted 70km/h zone. The three demerit point offence attracts a $245 fine.
According to Mr Lay’s own road safety propaganda, his chance of crashing increased by a staggering four times during his reckless encounter with the throttle.
Chief Commissioner Simon Overland and My Lay schemed to keep the speeding fine secret until after the recent Operation RAID, which targeted drink and drug driving.
Mr Lay said, “I knew I couldn’t keep it secret, so the decision I needed to make was did I make it [public] mid-November or do I make it early January.
“No doubt I’ll be criticised for it, but I think it was a sound decision.”
Although this offence was Mr Lay’s first conviction in 35 years, he was let off with a warning for another speeding fine five years ago.
What are your thoughts on Mr Lay’s most recent speeding offence?
I don’t care who you are. Everybody speeds. It is just a matter of time when you will be caught.
We have to assume Mr. Lay has been speeding regularly. I doubt very much he accidently crept over the limit just as a laser gun was focused on him.
Maybe he won’t be so self righteous when telling everyone to slow down. However even he must admit that 73 in a 60 is a little excessive. Should have been done at 65 in a 60 and see how annoying that is, especially when 5 km/h on an average speedo is a micron.
Ahhhh the love of digital speedos! I can’t remember the last time I looked at my needle…..
I have been driving an Omega for a few weeks and the digital speedo was useful. Now driving a Mondeo and I do miss it. However I would take the Mondeo over the Omega any day of the week.
Does anyone know….
Our service advisor spent some time trying to convince me that all manufactures retard the speedo.
For example you have the speedo sitting on 100kph but you are actually traveling at 90kph.
And don’t the police allow a 10% margin of error.
i have a gps and tested out the speed alert function. i set it to alert at 60kph and noticed that it did not beep until i hit up to 65kph on the needle – so there may be a 10% allowance. manufacturers are allowed to understate speed, but not overstate it.
It’s allowed to be as much as 10 percent under ADR. My Navara is 98kph at indicated 100. My GF’s Kia RIO is dead on 100 kph. Note that it has unlimited k’s warranty and is one of the few vehicles that’s accurate getting around.
Here’s the cruncher. If your car is 10 percent out, that reflects in your servicing and warranty. They should be made to make them precise. It’s a sham. That 10,000 k service may well have been nearer to 9,000 k’s and your 3 year 100,000 k warranty may be over at nearer to 90,000 k’s . Ripped off? You bet. Simple fix. Get that GPS . Work out if your car is out and if it is 10 percent go for a higher profile tyre.
My Navara was 93 kph at indicated 100kph before I changed the tyres to an oversize fit.
The manufacturers are on to a good thing if they can effectively give you 10 percent less warranty than what they advertise.
Actually not necassarily.
My car’s speedo is 10% slow (110 km/h indicated 100 km/h actual), but the ODOMETER is 100% accurate, tested against rodside signage over hundres of km on a trip and the GPS.
And BTW people, why is it sooooo hard to use the correct “km/h” unit designation?
I agree, every sign and every speedometer has written on it km/h. There is no such abbreviation as kph. When you think about it there is no metric unit “k”, it is a prefix to denote 1000 units, so kph means 1000 per hour. We have only be using the metric system on cars in Australia for 40 years. You think that people would have learnt by now, but I guess it is too difficult for some.
Also, why would you want to put larger diameter (higher profile) tyres on your car? If you have 60 series tyres on a 15″ wheel (eg 205/60-15) you would have to go to 75 series to get an 8% correction. This can have all sorts of consequences for clearances, weight and loading not to mention the deterioration in handling, braking and steering performance.
Oh please. who cares !!
If you don’t know what KPH stands for David you shouldn’t be driving on our roads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPH
Who’s says you’re right?
1 (kilometer per hour) kph = 0.0771604938 m2 / s
Oh and all the speed signs up here have a red ring aroound a black number. That’s all. No Km/h as you suggest. Now try and tell me the signs in Cairns are different to the ones around the rest of Australia Orifice.
Dear Clueless Aussie,
OK, not every sign, but the speedometer and all the yellow advisory signs do have km/h. I have never seen a speedometer or an official RTA road sign that has kph.
What’s the point of your wikipedia reference? It confirms what I and others have said. KPH is a colloquial expression “although these are not in accordance with international scientific standards.” And it is not me or anyone else saying it is wrong, try having a look at http://www.iso.org . There are standards for a reason and the correct use of the terminology and abbreviations is important for the same reasons that spelling, grammar, courtesy and civil discourse are important.
PS If you read David T’s post, he never said he didn’t understand it, he obviously did. He asked why people couldn’t use the correct km/h designation. A totally different thing if you hadn’t realised.
PPS I really am not interested in anything at all about Cairns, including the road signs. I have been there, seen the place and have no desire to visit it again.
PPPS Just because you say there are no Daewoo Cruzes at the Cairns airport rental lots, doesn’t mean that there aren’t. Have you surveyed the whole fleet of vehicles from each company? It also doesn’t mean that there are none at any other airports either.
Dear Clueless Aussie,
Regarding this statement – 1 (kilometer per hour) kph = 0.0771604938 m2 / s
Well done, you have managed to get four errors in one brief statement of nonsense. You have surpassed your previous efforts. For your benefit and education I will list them for you.
1) The word is spelt in this country “kilometre” (You’re not a septic are you?)
2) As you have been advised beforehand, the correct abbreviation is km/h, not kph.
3) kilomteres per hour (km/h) is a unit for measuring velocity, whereas m2 (square metres) is a unit for measuring area and it is incorrect to use both together in this way.(This comment box doesn’t allow me to use supescripts so I have to write it that way)
4) There is no derived unit of square metres per second as it makes no sense.
Keep up the good work, I enjoy reading your efforts at misinterpreting these simple matters.
Kind regards,
The Oracle
Dear Orifice. I didn’t spell it. It is a cut and paste from an American website where they spell it differently. Take it up with them. Of course this is a motoring site and not a classroom however as you are continually trolling I doubt that will matter to you.
The fact remains that both Kph and Km/h are used as reference and as this website isn’t a national highway I will continue to use kph. particularly as I now know it annoys you so much.
Love Callous.
Quote from the Oracle.
“I agree, every sign and every speedometer has written on it km/h.”
Further quote from the Oracle.
“OK, not every sign, ”
Confused much? People who live in glass houses…..
Dear Clueless Ostrich,
Me annoyed? Never, I’m having way too much fun!
“I didn’t spell it. It is a cut and paste from an American website.” Well that’s OK then. I now see that you quote references without reading them or verifying that they are correct or make any sense whatsoever. I’ll give you credit for consistency and clarifying for me your research methods.
The only thing I find confusing are your responses. They often seem to lack a coherent sequence of ideas and invariably finish with an ill-tempered stream of abuse, which of course demonstrates further a lack of clear reasoning. I also find it amusing that you accuse me of trolling, when I seem to spend a fraction of the time posting on this site that you do, but then, I have a life outside of this blog.
The Morris Minor link caused me to chuckle. Really, is that the best you could find? Aren’t there any other examples less than 60 years old? I guess that just proves my point that every speedometer in this country in the last 40 years or so has had the correct abbreviation of km/h. Besides, it doesn’t matter how far back you trawl and how many examples you find, kph is still wrong. It is like consistently misspelling a word, even though you know correct way, because that is how you have always done it.
Kind regards,
The Oracle.
If you go a higher profile tyre you might end up outside the rolling diameter.
Also you would have to consider load ratings.
You might correct the speedo but if you have an accident say good bye to the insurance.
Actually no. I checked before getting them fitted.
salesman,
try this(works for most g.m.products).driving at 100kph with the cruise on,reset the average speed/average fuel cons meter.when the figures come back on after a minute or so,THAT will show your true speed,not the analogue/digital speed meter(they are almost always on the high side)…
Cops not protecting their own, so refreshing!
How reckless.. He could of killed someone…
his chance of looking like a dick increased by a staggering four times during his reckless encounter with the throttle.
and another 10 times with that unflattering photo
Im so busy looking at my speedo these days that I reckon my chance of crashing has increased hugely.
I would like to make sure that he pays the fine and has the points removed from his licence.
Immediate resignation, no payout, never allowed to work any other government job. Refund all fines and demerits to all drivers who were caught speeding that day. I think that’s fair………..
This is hypocrisy at it’s finest.
Regards
Whitbomb07
I agree. If there’s no resignation it will undermine their anti-speeding campaign… ;-)
I cannot believe that rather than focus his attention 100% on the speedo (and therefore ignoring what was happening outside his vehicle), there is a chance he was observing road, pedestrian, motor bike and other road user activities, driving defensively and responsibly and thereby crept over the speed limit. Irresponsible!!
It was probably a safe speed for the conditions. I like the advers with the woman traffic cop nabbing someone on an arrow straight copuntry road with excellent visibility and weather doing 122 when the limit is (a ridiculously low) 100. “God ‘Im”.
Matthew
Try using any of that if you get done for speeding. I wish you good luck.
60km/h was the LIMIT, meaning not to exceed, if you can believe and consider it reasonable that he accidentally had 13km/h extra (just over 20% more than the limit) whilst he was conducting all the other tasks of driving then BOTH of you deserve to have your licences shredded.
I by no means agree nor support the speed limits that the big wigs decide on for the roads that we drive on, they spoil many great drives. However it is the law and there\’s no changing that. If you belive it to be inappropriate and then disregard it and apply your own law you deserve to have the book thrown at you.
Regards
Whitbomb07
in a funny sort of way i almost want more ‘undetectable’ covert cameras – it means every cop and politician will eventually get caught and tarnish their careers along with their cash-induced agendas. bring it on!
when will they realise that ‘everyone’ does 10kph over the limit (in 70\80\90\100\110 zones).
getting a speeding fine for doing 10% over is blatant revenue raising. the allowance is greater in europe. car scrapage schemes are a good way of getting people into safer cars.
if it’s not revenue raising, then stop penalising people with monetary fines to prop up your state budgets!
Damn straight it’s revenue raising. Since the introduction of speed cameras the road toll has plateaued after a downward trend for a couple of decades. With the rollout of speed cameras came a reduction in traffic cops. Police presence reduces offences. Not speed cameras. They don’t catch tail gaters, road ragers or people that cut others off. They are there entirely for revenue.
The cameras that advise you of their location with heaps of warning such as traffic accident blackspots, like the one at Flemmington Racecourse in melbourne or those on the Pacific Highway in northern NSW get my support. They are there to save lives. These ones hidden in wheelie bins on the main arterials out of major cities are nothing more than added tax.
Great to see a senior cop getting pinged. No Mr Policeman we don’t forgive you because you are now effectively a hypocrit.
Goodness me, what’s going on? For once I agree with you.
Most of the cameras on the NSW north coast are on straight sections of road where people are more likely to be speeding. If they were really for safety they would be placed to slow people down at dangerous spots.
For example, at Kororo just north of Coffs Harbour there is a speed camera on a dual carriageway downhill straight which is a 100 km/h zone. Only accident that has happened there was some schoolkids were run over crossing the highway many years ago, thats why the pedestrian bridge over the highway was built. Back a few kilometres towards Coffs, just below the Big Banana, there is a sharp bend at the end of the 60 km/h zone. Trucks regularly tip over here, and there are plenty of near misses as people take the corner too quickly and drift out of their lane. If the cameras were really for safety, surely they would put it here and ensure drivers take the corner at a safe speed?
I drove up the Pacific Highway in September and every single fixed camera I saw was marked at least 3 times before arriving at it by signs that read “Speed Camera in vicinity” then “reduce speed” and finally “speed camera in immediate vicinity Traffic accident blackspot”.
Each one was on a section where lives had been lost on blackspot locations. Yes, some were straight stretches but they were also accompanied by double white lines so clearly it was a dangerous stretch. The fact remains that if you are booked at these points you deserve to be as either a) you are a complete idiot or b) you are not coherent whcih means refer to a). When used in the above manner I am wholeheartedly in support until the Pacific eventually becomes the road it should have been 20 years ago.
Australia has one of the worst fuel tax /spend back on roads ratios in the western world. New Zealand spends every cent from fuel excise on it’s roads. We spend around a quarter of it.
Just like our speed cameras it is simply another form of taxation to pay fat cat politicians huge wages for doing little. Don’t believe the garb on tv . Fatigue is the big killer on our roads. But they can’t tax that. A driver doing 20 k’s under the limit with a mile of traffic stuffed up behind him will ALWAYS be more dangerous than some poor bugger that has drifted 10k’s over and in modern cars it is easily done even by the most law abiding amongst us.
What we need is a national rally to squash the BS. The trouble is many have already been brainwashed and if a rally was organised (as proposed by NRMA many years back) the dirty pollies would roll out the civil libertarians and survivors from road trauma. The facts a fogged by propoganda.
A person who drives 15,000 km’s per year has a 1 in 3,500 years chance of being involved in a fatal accident. Not killed, involved. The billions of kilometres driven by Australian motorists each year equate to 1,500 road deaths. More people die each year from complications from influenza. Fact.
The holiday roadtoll attracts major news coverage every holiday break and yet it is the safest time to be on the road . Given the much higher number of vehicles on the road the average death rate should surge and yet it remains static. Why? Police presence! There is no data to support otherwise. You have as much chance of being killed on a weekday taking into account vehicle numbers. Fact.
The current system of traffic mismanagement through speed cameras borders on communist rule. yet the governments all bring out the same crap as an excuse. Don’t speed and you won’t get caught. No you will just die in a head on instead because you spent too much time overtaking.
Well said and so true
Absolutely true.
Mate i want you to lead the next ad campaign, or whatever for those of us who actually have a clue about how the roads work, and not some politician who works with stats and not the cold hard facts.
Ummmm m he was 13 over in a 60 zone which = just over 20% over the speed limit.
Reagrds
Whitbomb07
“-but I think it was a sound decision”. What, the speeding or trying to cover it up?
gee he might have to cop it on the chin this time, no issues with the speeding we all make mistakes, fact that he tried to cover it up while espousing to all Victorian public that speed kills and we will catch you. Don;t forget he sacked a cop recently for giving out discounted speeding fines. He should take his own medicine shown some integrity and resign. Lost all credilbity now. And how many other speeding fines has he been let of for before, most cops jsut flash their badges and on their way. Hypocrite. mayeb he shoudl actually get some police out on the roads patrolling the major freeways 24/7?
Herald Sun said he was doing 80kmh in a 70 zone?
Callous Aussie – spot on, speed cameras are revenue raising at it’s finest. Governments then spend part of that revenue filling our TV screens and billboards with lies and propaganda.
Whatever happened to the Australian notion of a fair go? It’s excessive Government power.
We need to organise ourselves to stop these robbing bastard politicians and fat cat beaureacrats before they take away all that makes us Australian – all in the name of safety.
I challenge anyone to post an opposing view, that these cameras are about road safety, just please don’t forget to provide the evidence that these cameras save lives. There is none because they don’t.
The fact they have been removed in some countries is evidence enough for me that they are a hinderance not a help. They force people to watch their speedos instead of the road. They could only get so much money out of problem gamblers so now they will crank up the output of thee “flash for cash” cameras.
I agree with you guys.
Cameras get revenue – and ALOT of it.
The majority of this revenue needs to be spent on teaching 17 & 18 year olds how to drive properly, instead of propping up wasteful decisions made by politicians.
The current licence teaching & testing procedure for new drivers teachs them nothing about how to handle a car (the cruise control clown in the Explorer on Eastlink a few weeks ago proves that).
States governments now rely heavily on camera revenue – so it will always be a case of getting more cameras out there.
Spot on Pablo. Revenue should be used to revamp the training process and make better drivers from the day they get behind the wheel. But at this rate, don’t be surprised to see a camera integrated outside your driveway in a few moments!
Fell on his own sword!
Perfect!
The government and police demand perfection in our driving,now Mr Lay knows that we can all make mistakes and that the Victorian government IS banking(literally)on our human imperfection.
Speed kills…
Every K over is a killer…
Only 2% of all road deaths are caused by speeding….australian statistics
I know that speeding is only directly related in a minor number of accidents. I was just mocking the road authorities who continue to push that line (speed kils, every k over is a killer etc.) for their own purposes – pointing out the hypocrisy.
I guess tone is not well projected in text – my bad.
oh ok I take your point,..its like driving over the sa/vic boarder,same road same conditions,and your a killer for 10 k/hr over the limit
If this is true then thousands of us would be dead every day. Guess you are that compliant that believe everything the Government tells you.
Should be targeting the fwits that tailgate and harass drivers doing the right thing!
No, just obey the road rules and “keep left unless overtaking”. What that means is you are not judge or jury about what speed people travel at just get out of the right lane unless you are overtaking.
about mid-year 2009, a number of senior high-ranking Victorian police were mentioned as having incurred speeding fines. their names were SUPPRESSED, as was information regarding details of the speeds and fines incurred. double standards!
A police officer in the UK was pinged testing a patrol car but was found not guilty despite hitting 159 MPH ( 255Km/h). His onboard computer picked him up twice at 84Mph in a 30 zone and 131 Mph in I belive a 60 zone. Not sure where he was doing 159 but the national speed limit is 70.
I wonder if he will charge himself??
What I want to know is, when did he pay the fine? Was it when he got pinged or was it when he came clean about it? I’m sure we would all like a few months grace.
On the three occasions that I have got booked in 30+ years, I always write a letter and send the ticket back explaining the circumstances and what a good boy I am and how sorry I am and how seriously I take driving and any other sob story I can think of. It doesn’t always work, but if you have a good record, say 10 or more years between offences, you may get off with a warning. At the very least, you get another month or more before you have to give the bastards your money. The same applies for parking tickets.
Tooboorac can be missed by blinking an eye.
Good vision and you are hardly aware that you are in a townahip so not hard to do.
Police should be commended for the fact that they have proven not to be above the law.
If Ken had wanted to, he would have had access to data which would have told him exactly where speed cameras would be that day and at which time they would be operational.
It shows he is human and as far as I am concerned does not diminish the message he has been trying to get out nor diminish him any way in my eyes.
I certainly can not lay claim to only ever having had one speeding fine in 35 years.
There are many occasions, depending on conditions at the time, where a few k over the limit is not necessarily dangerous.
At all times it is against the law so when caught you cop the consequences.
That is what happened to Ken as happened to many of us.
You should approach Ken Lay and offer your services as a spin doctor, or anything that involves the use of your knees.
(click to show comment)
If you put a speed monitoring device in all the cars, everyone will be caught.
Haha that’s hilarious. Just shows how pathetic “speed kills” policing is.
I can understand why people exceed the speed limits on straight open roads, but not through towns.
My question is, how many times has he done this before & not got caught.
Quote:
He said he was driving alone and “a couple of hours down the road” had slowed to go through the town, but did not notice the speed limit.
In hindsight, Mr Lay said he should have taken a break from driving to stop fatigue setting in.
When he received the penalty notice in mid-November, he could not remember driving through the town.
End Quote
This is the worse part, if he was that fatigued he could have killed himself & others.
He has admitted driving fatigued, he should now be charged, have more points added & fined.
Quote:
“The system has worked on this occasion. I wasn’t concentrating and paid a penalty as a result.
“On this occasion I was very lucky – I didn’t drift into a tree, I got snapped (by a speed camera).
“I need to be more aware. I’m luckier than a lot of Victorians who weren’t. I’m still here to talk about it.
“Lots of people die in exactly those kinds of circumstances.End Quote
Rubbish the system did not work if it did he would have been pulled over & taken off the road, all this has done is raised some revenue.
yeah i thought i was pretty cool speeding and not getting caught, until i got caught…
Me too…it’s not very pleasant being without a licence for a month.
Learnt the hard way.
My cousin is a Victoria cop, she got pulled over in her private car doing 160 in a 110 zone and got let off because she flashed her police badge.
crap!
I believe I’ve got the same or better skill. Maybe I should be a cop and finally treat roads like an Autobahn.
Lets organise public support to oppose the government lies about safety and tackle this blatant taxation head on. Everyone I have spoken to about this over the last couple of years agrees it’s revenue, including the vast majority of posts on the subject online – therefore we have overwhelming public support. The Brits overturned the UK governments poll tax, let’s take the power back and get this up and running
If every K over is a killer ,why is flying still the safest way to travel? At 900kph.
Techniclly they arent speeding.
Sure its faster than a car, but not over the speed limits up there…
Surely even you realise that flying is different to driving? As said by others, it isn’t speeding in a plane.
PS The correct abbreviation is km/h. Weren’t you paying attention earlier?
Go away clown. You have nothing better to do than troll. Pay attention to the post under your dribble where someone else said “who cares”.
I could have worded it better Andrew. My mistake. I perhaps should have said if speed is so dangerous why is flying so safe? Of course there was a degree of sarcasm attacked however people like the orifice aren’t old enough for the penny to drop.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/kph
Have a read. If you’re capable Orifice. Weren’t you paying attention earlier?
Yes Callus,
I think you chose a bad example.
The campaign is every K over is a killer, and speeding is in relation to a speed limit.
I see what you are trying to say though, bad example.
As a further point , the training of the pilots is extensive. Speed in the right environment is safe is probably where I should have headed. German autobahns are proof that cars can do 250 kph and remain safe.
Of course ,the biggest factor is the standard of the roads. We built the snowy river hydro and yet we can’t seem to build roads. In a country as vast as ours where the cities are so far apart it is inexcusable.
Perhaps a 150 kph (km/h, mps, cmps, mmps ,mpw, mph) limit with training before you can use it at that speed? Afterall there are various classes for trucks. Was it speed only that killed the 5 young people in NSW this morning? I doubt it. It was a contributor, however I bet that a) he wasn’t driving to suit the road conditions and b) there is a high probability that with 6 young people in the car he was distracted.
But ,it will immediately be put down to speeding without any regard for his lack of experience.
I doubt you can blame the roads either.
Sure some are in a shocking condition, but driver error is the biggest contributer.
RE: the crash that killed the 5 young people…..
Reports were of around 200kmh!!!!
Driver error would have been the initial fault, but speed wuld amplify the error, and it would be the high speed that killed.
The reason why I also agree that the speed would have killed, is if they were doing the speed limit, the accident wouldnt have been as violent.
Lower speed during the initial driver error may have seen lives saved.
The speed did the killing, the driver error amplified by the speed caused the accident.
So you’ve never seen a bend in a road and thought “wow why haven’t they put a warning sign on that?”. I have and saw one yesterday. The road was a 100 kph zone and the bend should have been 40 kph and was over a blind rise then cambered the wrong way and sharp.
Refer to my post further down in response to your other comment for more on this. Blaming the drivers is not always fair.
despite many protestations and grand statements by many. I can say i have definitely booked people for tailgating, not keeping left and cutting in on people. The reason that you don’t see many get pulled over for it is due to the elements of proving the offences (particularly the keeping left). Many times, people transgressing these rules, start to behave when they see a Police vehicle. I don’t agree with the Victorian ‘tolerance’ of 3 or 2 or whatever it is. I apply at the very least an amount above 10%. If NSW ever dropped below that I would seriously consider getting out of traffic enforcement. NSW speed cameras, for which people really have to have their heads up their rears not to see, given the signposting, apply at least 10%. If covert cameras come in, it will certainly make it interesting.
That comment of your on how people behave when they see a patrol car is what I was saying in the thread about reducing speed limits… Instead of having camera’s (that for the QLD setup cost around $60,000 each van included) there should /could be 3 smaller Hi Vis things like Corolla’s Lancers whatever… twenty vans raising revenue and not stopping the idiot or drunk driver because he is swerving all over the place at 50km/h or sixty cars booking everyone for doing the wrong thing??? You tell me what is safer???
Sure having the human element in it is fraught with Police being let off, however it also allows the sensible officer to say “well we have 5 cars travelling at a safe distance obeying all laws on a good bit off road in perfect weather, sure they are 10km/h over the limit but they are safe… let them go!” or alternatively “we have five cars doing 80km/h in pouring rain at a safe distance and this one fool tailgaiting and chopping in and out causing the others to brake, he is only doing the 100km/h limit but he is driving without due car lets nab him!!” Cameras cannot judge what is safe or not, they can only act as the motoring equivalent to the supermarket bar code scanner..
As to where the money goes? Have a look (please allow this link Mods as it is relevant and ammusing for it’s stupidity) at this bit of money spending
http://quest-news.whereilive.c.....-the-road/
Best comment I’ve seen in along time, I don’t normally agree with you Safety but you are absolutely 100% spot on.
Guys, if speed really does kill, would someone be so kind as to mark on my speedo where speed is supposed to attack?
1km/hr will do it – any lane on any highway. If you don’t get rammed, you will surely be sent to your maker by irate motorists :)
Devil666 – that’s my argument in a nutshell, but you’ve expressed it much better than I did!
If we are to believe the Govt propaganda, Ken is a dangerous hoon, and menace to all road users.
Alternatively, Ken might be a perfectly responsible citizen, a competent and considerate road user, who has fallen victim to yet another irrelevant speed restriction & govt sanctioned highway robbery.
All that the huge numbers of people being booked for speeding really proves is that speeding (as in exceeding the posted speed limit) is usually not at all dangerous. Exceeding a posted speed limit is not intrinsically dangerous – often, the speed a driver should drive at has very little to do with the posted limit. It’s called driving to the conditions – that can mean driving at 30 kph in a 50 zone due to weather, traffic conditions and the number of pedestrians, and it can mean being able to safely drive at 130 kph in light traffic on a four lane divided highway posted at 110.
Drive to the conditions is the correct mantra. However, obviously speed limits do need to be set, whether we like or agree with them or not. Unlike an anonymous white van or some such like parked on the side of the road arbitrarily booking everyone for 2 or 3km/h over, I like to think that flashing my high beams and pointing fingers at most for ‘low level speeding’, frees me up to pull over and deal with those travelling too fast for conditions. That’s where the ‘discretion’ of a real life cop comes into play. Unlike the Victorian speed camera model of intolerably low tolerances and faceless contractors. Funnily enough the only speeders I tend to have ‘going to court’ are those that have a history, or will lose their licence due to points. Yet to lose. All on toast on video. As far as I am aware this Vic Assistant Commissioner isn’t the only Vic, Nsw or other cop to get booked. 83 in a 70 ? Personally that would barely warrant a finger point or headlight flash, because generally people in that range are paying attention and slow down when seeing a marked car, or if they have missed the speed sign or neglected to slow they soon do when seeing a marked car. I may point or flash at those that don’t slow, and if they continue the speed after passing the nice shiny Police car with the roof lights, I will probably go and have a word. Everyone, Police and general public have their own ideas about what is reasonable or not. The safest bet to avoid any dramas is to simply drive to the conditions and obey the speed signs, whether you agree or not. And it does not require eyes constantly on the speedo. What id does require is to actually be focused on driving, and not worrying overly about the stereo, or having a deep & meaningful conversation with a passenger, or trying to conduct a ‘business call’ via handsfree, all of these things distract driver’s from the primary task at hand. Driving. What annoys me a lot with many drivers is their inability to use their gearbox if necessary to assist in maintaining a steady speed, either down a hill or slight grade or up. Many do not realise or are simply too lazy to use their auto gearboxes in such a way as to assist with car control, and from what I have seen it appears that the ‘driving schools’ (and I use that term loosely) teach for the test, and not how to actually read traffic, effectively control the car, lift vision and effectively drive. I would very much like to see revenue from ALL traffic infringements put back into driver education, road improvements, and a better more effective licensing system.
You are obviously a policeman who knows how to exercise discretion. I have seen a Highway Patrol car do just what you have said, outside Moruya – he flashed his lights at a car coming into a 60 zone from an 80 zone. The flash had the desired effect – no ticket necessary, just a warning to a driver who hadn’t slowed down enough coming into town, but was aware of the traffic around him.
Speed cameras cannot exercise discretion.
When I started driving in the late 1970′s, it was very common to see Highway Patrol cars on the roads. Now, I can be driving for literally months and not see a single one – even during the Christmas blitz. It’s not hard to see that the NSW state government have saved literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year by cutting the Highway Patrol, while at the same time reaping hundreds of millions of dollars a year in speed camera fines. Bastards. Things have progressed to the point where the government could not reverse this situation (even if it wanted to, which it doesn’t) without affecting state revenue by over half a billion dollars annually.
Everybody speed, it just happened he was caught and not easy to accept that he’s the one doing it and surely he’ll be criticized for that, always look at your speedometer dude!
Why are police, ambulances, firetrucks and the like allowed to go over the limit? Sure it’s an emergency, but how are these vehicles able to go fast without compromising others’ safety? These drivers are professionally trained to control the vehicle in matters of life and death.
It’s all a matter of driving at a manageable speed, where you can react soon enough to anything that suddenly happens on the road. If you’re able to steer clear from danger having good skills, a well maintained ride and a proactive attitude towards others, then accidents need not happen due to acts of man. This, not speed limits, is the answer to road tolls.
Each time drivers get fined and points for speeding, would that make them better on the road? No prize for getting the right answer. The problem is people don’t get what they need to drive more responsibly, yet they receive what they don’t want. You go home from work seeing an envelope and voila, you have sped and they want your money or else they ‘have no choice’ but to go as far as impounding your car and/or putting you in jail, a perfect way of training people, isn’t it? If you want to object, you need to put up with lawyers who charge triple the amount of the fine. Very helpful persons eh?
The culprit is simply greed and selfishness. This doesn’t cost just money, but sometimes even lives. If the system were really there to help everyone drive properly and minimise deaths, then it needs to be fully revamped. Input from good driving countries like Germany and Finland would be essential. Roads also ought to be smoother and better designed. The revenue is heaps, from the moment we renew our regos to going over the limit, and it should be used to finally make Australia among the best driving environments in the world.
There are too many parasites sucking off the taxpayer to get a decent road system in Australia. Because of these parasites, the government needs to flog the living gus out of every working person any way they can, at every turn, to prop up the failing systems being hammered by leeches.
This guy just happened to get caught by his own trap. Stiff for him he now has to eat his own words. Its the same for all these policy makers who get on their high horse.
Robin, it has been that way for as long as I can remember and I don’t think that it will ever change. These parasites will always be around and feel that the world, (you,me and anybody that works hard), owes them.
That is the system that praises capatalism
Timely article as five were killed last night in Melbourne in a single accident.
The car was unrecognisable.
I think those that challenge that speed kills represent the mediocrities of our society.Witness what the ambulances,tow truck operators have to clean up,then witness the notification of the relatives,then those that survive but are condemned to an existence with relatives left to be carers.It is always more than one life ruined.
If you saw it or were touched by it in any way you would never speed,keep a safe distance & even if the limit says 60 or 100 you use judgement,you drive defensively at all times.
And yes I got caught once entering Burnley Tunnel when speed restrictions were in place & I did slow down but not soon enough, paid the fine & did not whinge.
It was an XR6 by the looks of the headlights. but the rest of the car didnt exist.
It’s not much point getting learners to go out on a skidpan and learn to control a sliding vehicle when at some point they may spend 10 minutes stuck behind some selfish pratt towing a caravan who refuses to pull over, only to be killed in a head-on because when he/she finally got a chance to overtake they couldn’t exceed 100.
That’s the sort of ad campaign that needs to be run in opposition to our far too rigid road laws. The ad should humiliate the person towing the van. In a way I feel a little frustration for this officer that got caught and here’s why. He is an instrument of ridiculous government policy and must toe the line or seek employment elsewhere. I have spoken to a couple of police I knew in Melbourne regarding this.
Prior to the mass roll out of speed cameras they had to make a minimum number of bookings each day or face the music. However the fact remains that due to their presence the roads were safer than they are now. The roadtoll peaked around 30-35 years ago when vehicles suddenly got more powerful but the safety systems weren’t catching up.
This officer has now been publicly humiliated through the media as a victim of an obvious flaw in the road laws. If an officer who has had extensive driver training as part of his job can be booked for such a ridiclous offence then it’s time for a review and overhaul of the system. I am not saying he should ne exempt from the system. He shouldn’t. But it’s the system that is wrong.
I remember a time when I was doing around 72 in a 60 in Melbourne across the old tapes on the road. A policman stepped out from a bus shelter and pulled me over. He said “driver could you slow it down a little as there is a school about to come out ahead” and waved me on. They were there to catch the clowns driving recklessly. Commonsense was applied.
The road toll is a lot better than it was many years ago.
Wind back the clock 50 years, and you will see on percentages, you are less likely to be in an accident today.
That’s largely due to a lower proportion of drink drivers (due to proper testing) and safer cars. I reckon the number of accidents is probably relative to population growth but the cars are safer to crash now.
As for your comments further on I agree to a point about the roads and driver error. it still doesn’t excuse the fact that our fuel taxes should be going towards better roads. I can accurately say that if all major highways were divided dual lane in this country ,the road toll would come down. Just as I can also say that if crash barriers were installed along the side of all roads to ensure that a vehicle can’t hit a tree there would be less deaths.
If all traffic is heading in the same direction on a given carriage way the risk of death is greatly reduced. Anyone who has watched 500cc motor cycle racing and seen riders come off at 280 kph will know exactly what I mean.
For far too long motorists have been made to pay the ultimate price for poor government management of our roads. The offshoot of this is for them to post ridiculous speed limits to compensate for THEIR lack of action. We are heading back to 3rd world standards on some of our highways. So yes ,the 5 young people that died today were victims of driver stupidity, BUT had there been a crash rail there they wouldn’t have hit the tree.
Just as a woman who was killed in a head on up here a few weeks ago would still be here if the government had put overpasses at the intersections years ago as promised. The culprit wouldn’t have been able to get onto the wrong side to avoid police to begin with.
It’s too easy for people to accept that we are victims of our own behavior, when sometimes it is government inaction that causes the deaths of innocent bystanders like the woman I mentioned above.
Why are there still huge H-section signs built for advertising right next to highways? Why do we still use white reflectors on the middle of higways when yellow are far more visible? Why don’t powerpoles have a crash absorbancy barrier around them along roadsides to slow impact?
Most importantly, why are politicians so thick?
A facebook group is growing with its anger towards the underhanded tactics of the government in regards to speed cameras and speed enforcement. All help in raising awareness is appreciated.
Facebook group: The Safety Camera – NSW says NO!
Personally I reckon speed does kill. (Or the sudden stop from it to be precise)
Speed may not be the cause of the accident, but if you do come undone speed worsens the consequences.
The faster you go, the more likely it is you will be killed in an accident.
I dont believe the police campaigns ever really say “speeding will cause an accident”……
It’s less about ‘absolute’ speed and more about ‘relative’ speed. If you are going faster (or slower for that matter) than the traffic around you, you begin to develop a difference in your speed to others around you increasing probability & energy of impact. The bigger the differential, the higher the risk of collision & damage.
Most of the “close calls” I see on highways (40,000km+ per year on highways) are caused by inconsiderate slow drivers either not completing an overtaking move in overtaking lanes (yes, even the second lane of a multi lane highway is not yours to dawdle along in at your discretion if you’re not overtaking – that’s the law in any speed zone over 80km/h – keep left unless overtaking), or are simply too scared to travel at the speed of the other traffic. This casues frustration & confusion – both precursors to accidents (quick lane changes, tailgating, road rage, etc).
Speeding *and* , ummmm, ‘Slowing’? both kill. Going 20 km/h over on a highway has same effect on impact risk as going slower by the same amount. The only benefit of going slower is when hitting a stationary object, under which circumstances your speed was not the only problem…
Solution? More driver training – and not just once! I don’t care how thorough the training was the first time you did it. Humans forget, road consitions change – indeed, road rules change – & thus the need for retraining. If you want your license renewed, complete a test (practical & written) – may as well get some value out of the $100 bucks it costs to do this for absolutely no value, except maybe as an ID card – what other value does a license hold after 10 years of not being revalidated?.
Anyway, rant over…
On accuracy of speedos….
It would be near impossible to maintain an accurate speedo.
The speedo cab vary something like 3 “Km/H” over the life of your tyres.
Ive also been told by the tyre dealer that the diameter of a tyre can vary 3mm depending on the tyre manufacturer, even if they are the same tyre profile.
Change in tyre pressure can also affect your speedo…….
I wouldnt be losing sleep about inaccurate speedos.
Ive compared my speedo to the roadworks warning signs and it tells me im doing 40 when my car speedo says 42.
Intergrated into our satellite network they would be spot on with GPS tracking. You would still need the standard speedometer also due to the uplink refresh time, however when maintaining a steady speed the device would show you exactly how far out your speedo is . Maybe then the ridiculously out of whack ones wouldn’t see someone up front holding up all the traffic in the belief they are doing the right thing.
The trouble with correlating improvement in the road toll with harsher speed limit enforcement is the massive improvements in car safety devices in the past 10-15 years.
I would be more interested in seeing the stats on serious crashes than the stats on deaths alone. Is the focus on speed limits reducing the number of serious crashes, or is the crash rate increasing while only the improvement in the safety of the average car on the road is keeping a lid on the road toll? Especially when the crackdown on drink-driving and drugged driving (far more dangerous than 70 in a 60 zone) has also been in place.
I would love to see figures to suggest the speed limit thing, ESPECIALLY on highways and out beyond the inner city, is helping at all.