Ford - Geelong Plant Closure Disgrace - Opinion
18 Jul, 2007
90 Comments 
*editor’s note* - the article below is simply a rant - an emotional one at that. We understand the need for Ford Australia to move forward and appreciate the views of our readers pointing out that both Holden & Toyota have followed similar paths in the past.
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Ford has today given the final salute - the two finger salute - to 600 Geelong workers and its inline-6 cylinder engine.
Following today’s announcement of the culling of Ford’s inline-6 cylinder engine, to be replaced by an imported V6 motor, it has also become clear that over 600 jobs are in limbo due to the decision.
Ford’s top-hat Tom Gorman plays down the axing of jobs with reassurance of job re-allocation. Although it sounds like an attractive proposition, it totally defies logic and lacks any form of feasibility. Ford expects Geelong based workers to accept re-allocation to other available jobs at its Melbourne based Broadmeadows plant.
Much like most other sane people, the idea of driving one and a half hours per day (per way), or utilising public transport for in excess of two hours per day (per way) will totally defy reasonable logic.
Morale at the Geelong plant will also take a nose dive, workers will show no enthusiasm for work or desire to get jobs done. And who would expect them to? Knowing full well that in two years time they will have no job to speak of.
Despite accepting over $90-million from the Government in the past three years for further fuel efficiency developments and continued support of the Falcon and Territory, Ford will still relinquish the inline-6 cylinder engine.
The whole situation came to fruition due to an article GoAuto produced last week. Had GoAuto not released the article, it would be anyone’s guess when Ford would have told employees about job losses. My guess is that they would have kept it hush hush for as long as possible. The article caught Ford off-guard and it forced their hand to react.
It really is a sad day for the Australian motoring industry and all I can say is - Shame on you Ford! This will ultimately alter Ford’s image and if the soon to be jobless Ford employees have anything to do with it, it may also mean a boycott of the manufacturer’s product.
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July 18th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
How can you post such crap?
Was there any talk like this when Toyota switched to a fully imported engine?
What about Holden, did they get any of this crap? I know for a fact that the employees
In question will be utilized as much as possible. What people forget, is that when it comes down
To it, Ford is a business and must act accordingly. If you owned a small business would you stay open at a loss to keep paying people?
There will be benefits to this from Ford HQ in the states. Yes I do feel for the 600 people that don’t know the future of their jobs, but
I believe that Ford Aus will do everything they can to either help them find more work within the company or help train them etc.
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July 18th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
No doubt Mr Ford employee, you are NOT one of the FIRED 600!!
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July 18th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
How convenient Ford Employee.
You’re not one of the people who will have to totally change their lives if they were to accept Ford’s dismal approach.
It’s a total fallacy and Ford should be forced to pay redundancy packages, along with job search costs to all the people they have inconvenienced.
All this to ensure that cashed up bastard Tom Gorman gets his mega pay cheque each year!!!!!
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July 18th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Again with the Ford bashing.
No one has mentioned that this could turn the company around by globalising the Falcon and Territory platforms creating a more exportable product.
I hate this outcome but isn’t it more important in the long run the company survives.
I feel for the employees but Ford are doing what Toyota and Holden did years ago.
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Successive federal governments have turned off local manufacturing of any products in this country - and this won’t change with, whether Liberal or Labour are in power. Go shopping anywhere these days and just try and find something NOT made in China. Australia is fast becoming a nation of importers and consumers and no longer producers. Incredibly sad and ultimately dangerous in the longer term.
Part of the issue is that Ford hasn’t produced such a desirable enough product for it to maintain it’s position at the top of the sales tree. The other part is legislation that is removing the protection that local companies have used to maintain a competitive edge.. creating a ‘level playing field worldwide. But no political party has given any ‘vision’ for what Australians are going to do for work when we no longer produce anything in this country.
Today is a simple fact of modern Australian manufacturing. I have lost my job about 7 times now, as successive companies have folded their local manufacturing and sent their production off shore - China in particular for my industry.
Aussies either have to accept paying $50 000 for a locally produced Falco-dore or we have to accept that it is not going to be ‘made here’ and cough up the $35 000 instead.
Ultimately though… if no companies are producing anything here and no one has jobs, will they be even able to afford the $35K???
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
hey im affected by the dropping of the I6 and we have been told that we will be redeployed, so dont go believing everything you here in the press.so leave ford employee alone unless you know the facts.
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
This article raises valid points. No one will convince me otherwise that the decision to drop the I6 was made at the highest levels long ago. As with all of the larger companies the last people to know are the ones most affected by the decision, ie the workers. What stinks the most is Ford kept taking the government (aka TAXPAYER) funds, which were intended for the delopment of the Australian I6 to global standards, and from all accounts have done nothing of the sort. Every indication has been that Ford were committed to local manufacturing, happily taking the government funds.
The fact is that since the BA was released in 2002 the I6 development has been stagnant staying virtually the same for the last 5 years. Hardly a sign they have been working towards the known goal of Euro IV emissions targets. This just adds weight to the theory this motor was destined to be killed off long ago….conincidentally around the same time a Yank was instilled as the Oz Ford boss.
In my opinion it’s a sad chapter in Oz Ford’s history that they’ve given up on an Australian icon, the 4.0L I6 as it has been the best big six for years. The way they’ve gone about it does reflect badly on the management.
Ford should have come clean with the government (aka taxpayers) earlier instead of acting like deers in the headlights.
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Some good points Christiaan. I agree with your sentiments regarding the lack of real vision by governments in general, particularly around the globalisation. Realistically how can local industry compete with countries that effectively employ slave labour. It’s a fallacy to believe this is the only way to make industry competitive. Has Japan dropped it’s import tariffs for our industries? I don’t think so, and various industries are fighting to keep their tariff protections to prevent our products from affecting their markets (ie primary production, take beef & our fruit & veges). It seems our governments are always the stupid ones to go first, which conveniently wipes out local industry after industry. Where’s the sense in that?
Apart from that I do think Oz Ford do make desirable products…who wouldn’t want a Turbo’d I6 pumping out 480 Nm torque & 245kw for under 50K? Get ‘em while you still can though……
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Well what a complete load of uninformed bull—-!!!.So the engine plant is closing down in three years!Who in todays world has guaranteed employment forever? or even three years. Aussie manufacturers like Ford Australia are stuck between a rock and a hard place.The competition has already gone through this process and shed many jobs all in the name of being more competitive and staying afloat.Do Toyota make their 6 cylinder engine in Australia? No.They are made for all over the Toyota world in Japan or Thailand or somewhere in a plant that makes hundred’s of thousands of similar engines not only 80,000 like Ford Australia.With those economies of scale imagine the outcomes that can be achieved:euro iv, euro v, diesel etc.Shame n Ford for trying to compete.Holden lovers lamented the death of the old 5.0v8 but would they swap a Gen 3 or 4 for a 5.0? I think not.
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Joe, you’ve totally missed the point.
Nobody has job security, but there is a big difference between not knowing when you will be fired, compared to knowing when the deadline is and wondering when in between then and now you will get the boot.
Some of these people have mortgages and kids…some of them have worked for Ford their entire lives. This totally does over 600 people…
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July 18th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Joe,
Have you read any of the comments ? What are you on man ? WJ stated an interesting comment and I would love to hear Ford’s response as to what they have spent the Tax Payers dough on over the past 5 years. Where has that money gone that was intended to make a leaner greener Euro IV standard engine ? Someone needs to get a response on that from Ford.
I guess we should all just sell off our Aussie icons and hope like hell that down the track, when we are importing everything we aren’t held to ransom. No use complaining as it is what we all want….isn’t it ?
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
WJ and westy,
yes a good point on where have the incentives gone but i have to feel the government knows too right what is happening. i mean they dont hand out money with out seeing where it is going. is the government the one feeding this money elsewhere via ford and turning a blind eye. the government never loses and always knows what is going on whether they portray it or not
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Andrew M,
You are so right and I guess we the dumb public will never be privvy to such details. Trade relations between USA and Australia always favour the US of A or anyone else basically at our expense. God help us if we stood our ground for once instead of doing the bend over a barrel job!
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
The emotion/bias shown by the author of this news item could only be described as unprofessional and immature.
That’s evident in the first two lines when the author throws out any objectivity they may have had with cognitively impaired comments such as “the two finger salute - to 600 Geelong workers.” and then they go on to make comments like “it will also mean a boycott.”
Sorry but that’s simply plain stupid. What do you suggest Ford does? Continue to spend more money on a car which isn’t making money and go it alone while there’s other 6cyl engines in the Ford empire with technology such as direct injection, twin turbocharging, hybrids and DSG 6 speed transmissions(in the near future). It’s all well and good to sit in your comfy computer chain and throw eggs but what do you seriously thing Ford should have done?
And to the person complaining about Gorman’s pay check. Why don’t you get off your backside and work a job where you’re in the office for 14 hours a day and you’re thinking about work for the other 10.
I might also add that Ford doesn’t receive any of the government money until they’ve already achieved the goals set out in the agreement. Ford has to make the initial investment and if the government is happy with what Ford did, they will THEN give a cheque to Ford.
I’m honestly flabbergasted at this news article. I used to hold this blog in high respect.
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
They have a turbo diesel v6 in u.S. and are used in utes etc.
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
PaulST:
We’ll always get the Ford fanbois like yourself barging in here standing up for their marque.
You simply assume that this was Ford’s only choice. Unless you are part of management, I don’t see how you can comment on Ford’s move.
If Ford had bothered investigating this earlier, they’d never be in this mess to begin with.
For heaven’s sake, they were accepting money from the government to improve fuel efficiency and refine the Falcon and Territory…what the hell did they do with all this money?
And you sit in shock about the ‘two finger salute’ comment. What else more than a two finger salute is this to the 600 employees?
Do you think they’re sitting at home now feeling chuffed that because they have been fired, Ford’s future will be OK? I most certainly don’t think so.
I’m honestly flabbergasted at how inane and ridiculous your post is. You’re just standing up for your marque and don’t care who stands in the way of their future ’success’.
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
I may not be a Ford man. But the bias of the person who wrote this blog is embarassing. The shame is NOT on Ford - its on you. The 600 employees have not been given “The finger” and will not be fired.
I dont know if you have kept up with the news, but Ford will start production of the Focus locally - a brand new assembly line has to be set up, and the 600 employees will go there. Not to mention the T6 Pickup development coming up as well. Ford is globalising all its divisions, and Ford Australia has a leading role in development of Large RWD architecture, as well as a pickup, and an SUV…
As we know, Ford Australia is also looking into exporting, yet the I6 engine, however good it may be, is limiting the LHD conversion. It also makes little sense producing an entire engine for such few vehicles. Yes, there are drawbacks from switching to a V6 - but get your act together. Its the only way forward for Ford. You have treaten this news with the maturity of a 5 year old, and frankly I am disappointed with your article.
Get your act together. Your ignorance is inescapable, and you wear it proudly. The Disgrace here is that you are able to post such a news article. Shame on you.
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
It diidnt effect holden in s.a and it wont effect ford in vic when staff were sacked.
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
While it’s fine to vent and rage, just remember that Holden did the same thing with its 6 cylinder in 1986.
I think it’s a credit to Ford Australia they have pushed the envelope this far. Do you realise that by the time the Inline six is replaced in 2010, it will be 50 years young? This whole upset will be resolved in a reasonable manner and Ford have announced it long before closure so people have time to adjust their lives, unlike some companies that tell you after the factory is closed.
Please try to keep balance in your journalism, this is a bad enough time without pouring petrol on peoples hearts. Ford is in the struggle of its life and it would be crazy for them to act as if nothing is wrong. The Falcon has been a good product but now it’s too big and too thirsty for most Aussie families. Last year, 70% of the 50,000 Falcons went to fleet and only 15,000 were to private sales so the car that everyone supposedly loves is just not selling anymore. Ford need a better, smarter and more fuel efficient product.
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July 18th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Benjie,
As I said, I’m not a Ford Fan myself (Nor Holden). However, I can tell you that for the money Ford has received for development of the I6 engine has been used and is the reason why we have the I6 today.
I can tell you that the V6 was Fords only choice. Allan Mullaly, Head of Ford, is seeking to make all Ford divisions one global company. As such, it doesn’t make sense to have two engines of similar capacity, being developed together. The I6 engine is too tall to fit in most international Ford and Mazda models that are already using the 3.5 V6, and for packaging reasons, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to justify it even in a car like the Falcon.
Aside from that, Pedestrian safety will mean it will be very difficult for the I6 to comply with the standards (Being so tall). So the only option was to stick to the global engine.
And as mentioned, the 600 jobs at Geelong wont be lost. Plus this move might mean the very survival of Ford Australia, at its most difficult time ever. Would you prefer Ford Australia shut down and then ALL jobs will be lost?
Lets look at this more open-mindedly. If you were Ford, would you pay large amounts of money for two similar engines, and to get them both past safety and emissions standards, and updating them both and so on - or would you combine the two into one? Especially considering there’s big plans coming along for Ford Australia…
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
For the record, Ford don’t receive any government money until after they have spent the money themselves. So called engine investments were for meeting Euro III and improving fuel efficiency. Other grants are by way of tax relief. No government money is spent without substantiation, this is John Howard remember and he doesn’t give away squat when you read the fine print.
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Agreed with Superfresa, i dont beleive the amount of garbage thats written by the hands of the so called car journalists! The plant ISNT closing, if anything its moving to possible expansion with the Focus assembly: think outside Australia ppl. More jobs can be created by this and NOT less.
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
I love Ford cars. My current company car is a Territory Ghia Turbo with all of the bits and pieces.Yesterday I drove a colleague’s 10,000km Aurion Grande and the day before I drove another colleague’s BFII Fairmont Ghia and all that I can say is that apart from the Aurion’s slightly better fit and finish(soon to be addressed in the BG hopefully)I think that the Fairmont is a superior car to drive and be comfortable in and so I don’t quite understand why the sales of Falcon are shrinking(much lower than even the Au)and the Aurion’s sales are increasing even though the advertised fuel economy difference is only 0.2 of a litre/100km worse for the Falcon.
So I don’t want to see the 4.0 Barra family go, but if the only game in town is a high volume “World Engine” game,then you have only got two choices , haven’t you.
By the way,as far as the Government’s $90,000,000 goes,think about this:at 80,000 Barra powered vehicles per year over 6 years(3 years gone 3 to go) at a gst amount, on average, of $3500 per vehicle, that equals $1,680,000,000 in gst only - without any other taxes ,fee’s ,levy’s etc. Not a bad investment/inducement/gift/grant etc. is it.
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Any global car manufacturer with production in australia will close up in the not too distant future no matter what management are saying. Labour costs are too cheap in developing countries for them to ignore
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Stu, that isn’t right either. I hope not anyway. The fact is, Australia has some excellent, world class products. It’s unbeatable - for example - at RWD sedans, and as much as you may try, you can’t beat that overnight in China, or Korea.
Dont underestimate the Australian automotive industry. The chinese may be coming - but we’re not sitting there waiting for it to happen. We’re doing what we can to come ahead…. With things like, swopping to the Global V6 and exporting world wide.
Yet immature writers as the one who did this news article will complain and moan without checking his facts, unfortunately…
He could team up with One of those sensationalist TV shows, and newspapers, in the quest to show the world how biased and immature you can be when writing a news article. Although they do it for the viewers, who believe it. The writer of this news article does it because he doesn’t understand anything - and doesn’t want to either.
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
By the way, you (Author) may be interested to know that your article has been posted on several international websites as an example of pathetic coverage on this news. And so far, they all agree - you’ve lost it in this news article. You have shown your own ignorance and bias. I suggest you get a grip, or retire.
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
I can’t believe some of the rubbish people like Superfesta and friends are posting!
You guys are so uninformed that it’s not even funny.
These people will have no jobs in 2010…Ford will NOT produce the Focus here…what the hell would the point in that be? Was the Focus thing tongue in cheek? I haen’t worked it out yet.
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
To the author:
You must have heard enough by now to know how unbalanced and how much damage your article has caused to this website.
There are prominent TV programs and newspapers who wouldn’t let balanced views get in the way of a stunning headline, but caradvice is supposedly a decent automotive site, and you have let it down.
it’s perfectly good to feel sorry for those 600 workers who will undoubtedly have an uncertainly times ahead of them, but next time PLEASE devote more than 1 sentence to give people, many who have little knowledge of the industry, another angle to the story.
a disappointed caradvice blogger
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Benjie,
Ford Australia is producing the Focus locally whether you like it or not. I can see that I am obviously the mis-informed one…
You dont believe me? Look at this… http://www.drive.com.au/Editor.....leID=41504
And have you not heard that Ford Australia is developing the next Global Ute (Ranger replacement)? Or that, similarly to Holden, The Falcon Platform is going to spawn the next Mustang and a whole heap of other products?
Misinformed, I hear you say. Its okay, I’ll keep informing myself, and then, eventually, I hope to be as well informed as you are ;)
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July 18th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
That article should have not ever been put on the web, wot like the first poster said, where was the rage when toyota started importing the v6s, where was the anger when holden unloaded a heap of workers a few years ago. Now i’m upset about the I6 being killed off, but those 600 workers still have jobs within ford, which is better then being totally fired, but if this going to save the ford brand then good, and if this means the falcon will be exported to other countries, and remember that they are building this orion falcon so it can be built in LHD as well as RHD. You should take this article off this website its disgraceful, if you are going to post articles like this then you should do it the to the other 3 manufactures when they lay-off workers.
So the next time i hear of another manufacture laying off workers i expect to see an article the same as this one.
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Guys, thanks for all the comments, I agree with most of you that Ford are doing what is needed to move forward and catch up to the big two.
I have put the article backonline, whilst I dont necessarily share the views of this article, that is the beauty of opinion - this is a news site and review site - no doubt, but we are also humans, and our love of cars and the industry can get us revved up from time to time.
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Thanks, Ed!
I have no troubles with opinion, and different points of view. However, using the good name of this site to post a rant was never going to be pretty.
Thanks for adding that note, and all’s well again. I shall continue to read this pages with the same enthusiasm, happy to know you haven’t lost the plot.
Thanks once again for putting an end to this nonsense. It’s much better now as a simple rant (And I appreciate that the I6 is hard to let go of, especially for some Ford Fans out there).
- Superfresa -
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Ford run a business and to do that they must go through changes. I love the I6 engine but i know it is expensive to build for just australia. The 600 workers have 3 years to find jobs inside or outside Ford. While they are enjoying their RDO’s or fully paid long weekends or their fully paid religious days off they could improve their qualifications and get out of a factory job. With these changes and new directions Ford are taking there will probably be more jobs created anyway. Why be mad at Ford? Didnt Holden sack 600 0r 700 workers not long ago?
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
I hope all the workers at the Ford engine plant drive a Falcon or Territory…………if they dont then maybe they should. You cant blame Ford if you havent supported the company that pays you …………simple.
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
No problem superfresa, this site is fuelled by passion alone. (we all live on baked beans) :P
always feel free to leave any comments you wish in disagreement, we listen and we react accordingly!
Thanks once again, and a hello to all the guys from FordAustraliaForums :)
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Benjie; the State government has vowed to replace the 600 jobs anyway- so no damage done. Ford is still manufacturing cars in Austrlaia and this decision does stand to benefit our economy in the long run ( by making our products more exportable), so any negative publicity is potentially harmful to our economy.
I’m sure Ford wanted to keep the straight six motor but Detroit wants to assimilate all it’s outposts, so it had to happen.
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July 18th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Superfresa, are you suggesting every single news agency that has covered this story is lying?
You said “The 600 employees have not been given “The finger” and will not be fired.”
Despite News.com.au - “600 Ford workers will be retrenched when the car company closes its Geelong engine plant in 2010, Federal Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane has confirmed”
And GeelongAdvertiser - “FORD Australia today finally told 600 of its Geelong workers their jobs will be axed.”
And maybe even this from CarsGuide - “The Australian understands a further 600 jobs could be at stake at the company’s Victorian Broadmeadows plant, as Ford seeks to contract out part of its assembly and fleet maintenance work as well.”
This may be good news for the company in general - which I don’t disagree with - but it’s definitely bad news for 600 workers, no matter which way you look at it.
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:02 am
No worries! Hello from the guys at Ford Australia Forums too, and from the other sites that came to visit ;) LOL. I’ll make sure I drop by more often. I like baked beans too - lol.
Anyway, all’s understood and well now.
I6 will be missed dearly. But we’re looking forward now, not backwards. The Model T Ford’s end of production was also mourned by enthusiasts as well. But we now have blue, red, green, white and Silver Fords, as well as black ones. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you gain, but all you can do is look forward, and do the best you can, according to the circumstances.
- Superfresa -
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Ill miss the barra too, and i know the v6 turbo has high torque so it should be intresting.
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Benjie, I’m not saying that most news sites dont have a clue what they’re talking about. I’d never even imply that. Not when they have been reporting all day that Ford will stop producing their “Locally made V6 engine” - LOL.
To all mourning the decreased torque of the Duratech 35 - Ever considered upgrading to the V8 then? And then, there’s the rumoured Diesel coming (Hopefully) with 425Nm out of a 2.7L engine…
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July 19th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Benjie, honestly grow up.
Firstly, how do you know that I don’t have sources within Ford management? Secondly, if you think Ford had another intelligent option, why not post it up here? Thirdly, you ask what Ford did with money from the government? Modified the Barra I6 to meet Euro3 standards. Do you have a point to what you said?
And then you go on to talk about how evil Ford is for sacking 600. Fourthly, 600 people won’t be sacked. Get that figure out of your head (and I believe you know it’s crap but you love the sensationalized figure). Just because the media are reporting 600 doesn’t mean it’s true, and I know for a fact that it’s not true. And the fact that you’re dead-set-certain that the figure is correct simply because all of the media is reporting that figure as comical. Says a lot about your judgment.
And fifthly, people get sacked. It’s a fact of life.
In your whole post you actually didn’t say anything, you just criticized. How about adding to the discussion?
And sixthy, RE: the Ford fanboi comment and suggesting that everything Superfresa and friends say is rubbish. Mature…
Seventhly, you comment on how misinformed we are? Can you please point out where that is exactly? Or is that just another random claim you’re making?
Eighthly, I find your comments on the Focus “NOT” being produced here as interesting. Especially when you’re so dead-set-certain that you’re correct. Your ignorance will be revealed (even more so) in due course.
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July 19th, 2007 at 3:14 am
Get over it, its business
Sales of the Falcon have plummeted
Lucky they have not axed the Falcon [Like the Fairland/LTD] thats in the future
The market has changed and so Ford has to too.
Like it said it all omes down to $$$$ and Ford are not taking a hit because of its Aussie operation
Bye!
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July 19th, 2007 at 6:27 am
Didnt Holden sack 600 workers in Adelaide recently?? they gave them 2 weeks notice……….so why the Ford bashing? Holden and toyota and Mitsubishi all import engines or paatrs of engines. Lets satrt bashing Holden ……what happened to their 600 workers?? and didnt toyota also sack some workers this year???
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July 19th, 2007 at 6:28 am
was meant to be parts of engine not paatrs !!!!!!!!!! its early !!! lol
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July 19th, 2007 at 6:59 am
This whole article has been great. It looks like Ford engineers aren’t smart enough to get the I6 to the Euro standards required. Surprises me, because they certainly had no trouble re-engineering the suspension from live axle to control blade. But obviously Aussie brains can’t do it anymore.
Never mind someone else can think about it.
People get way too precious about things these days and I can’t believe people on their soapbox getting into the author. Political correctness at work again.
Cheers.
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July 19th, 2007 at 8:19 am
PaulST:
Yeah…sure thing mate, I’ll believe you - a Ford fanboi with no connections to Ford - over several reputable news sites.
Yep, nice one.
Next thing you’ll be telling me there is life on the sun, despite all media alluding otherwise!
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July 19th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Benjie, why dont you delight us and challenge us with a reasonable argument rather than calling anyone who is posting reasons and proof a “fan boi” and criticising THEM rather than their arguments? Give a reasonable argument then! I appreciate that you may not agree with this decision - but all I’m saying is suggest viable alternatives; show a line of thought, and reasonable arguments. Dont just go on a rampage without listening to what others are saying…
Westy - its not that they aren’t smart enough. Its that you wouldn’t invest in developing two similar engines - or more. Thats why Ford USA is in the mess its in. It has several products that are similar to each other - each of which requires a lot of dewvelopment money and so on.
As said before, the I6 is just 50 years old - Its had a very long run! But now its too tall and long to be conveniant packaging-wise and it gets in the way of pedestrian safety too. Sure, they can spend thousands developing it - and give it another 50 years of life. Lets assume they can. But why, when there’s a very modern engine within the same capacity right there under Ford’s group?
Yes, its sad to see the I6 go, even if its just because it was a special configuration. However, it must happen - its the only thing Ford can do, and it doesn’t prove the engineer’s incompetence - rather, competent management.
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July 19th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Aren’t we then going to have a Falcon that is designed for the I6 running around with the V6 aka VN Commondore. The whole dynamics of the car will not be right until a new full ground up design is done. How long away would that be?
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July 19th, 2007 at 9:11 am
I think some of the posts here have forgotten what the media actually is trying to do here. That’s sell its product.
I’ve tried to read every article on the web over this and I can honestly say that if you read all thoroughly, the future for most of those guys is quite rosy.
Go past the shock and awe that the media are flogging and understand that the casting plant will continue, the aluminium casting section will survive and the third vehicle line will have it’s panels stamped in Geelong. All of a sudden it’s not the end of the world after all.
Of the 600 people we have all been told by the media will lose their jobs, in reality only a percentage actually screw the engines together, the rest work in the other areas such as those mentioned above.
Having been through retrenchment myself, I think there are plusses and minuses on getting significant prior notice. But compared to the someone arriving at work and being told they haven’t a job, I prefer the notice anytime.
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July 19th, 2007 at 9:16 am
for everyone thats complaining, have a look at some of the other succesful ‘world marques’ such as Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Mercedes-
These companies offer thier complete range of cars on basically every continent on Earth, all powered by the same engines (a 5 series in Australia has the same engine as a 5 Series in the USA) The same as a Camry in Japan has the same engine as the Camry in Australia.
Mullaly is following in the footsteps of these carmakers and globalizing Ford, and only good things will come from this for Ford as a Global business. Its easy to forget Ford Oz is a small cog in a very large company. Thousands have lost their jobs in the states, and whether the restructuring that lost their jobs was caused by mistakes of the past, its irrelevant, the company has to protect its future.
Ford does have a contract to engineer the next Ranger pick-up.
Ford will build an as yet unnamed third model in Oz (most probably Focus)
Ford will get lots of money from head off to help develop a new RWD platform that will be used in cars around the world.
Locally, the state and federal governments have vowed to help the 600 workers (this is a great country we live in)
Ford will look in house for extra staff rather than outsource.
I don’t think I can change peoples negative thoughts on this announcement, but as stated earlier both Holden and Toyota made the big switch long ago, and have done very well for themselves, so shall Ford Oz.
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July 19th, 2007 at 9:37 am
To Benjie.
Dude, quit while your behind.
Ever heard of press releases. Ford issued one, all the new services did their reports from that with local spin attached.
Thats why they all have similar stuff. All seemed to have ignored the bit where Ford said they were going to be working to transfer as many jobs to other plants, therefore as stated in the press release (did you get it, or did you just make it up from what others reported?) UPTO 600 jobs may be lost in 3 years time. You must have a great crystal ball if you think, everybody will just keep working and stop in 2010, many will now reexamine their lives and look for other opertunities. Ford may have the inverse problem in 18 months, how to retain enough staff to build the I6 for Orion. But whatever happens, this is Ford taking a step forward, finally the Falcon (if it survives globalisation) will not have to deal with all that weight over and ahead of the front wheels. Now if they just got an Alloy V8 they would have a world competitive package.
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July 19th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Superfesa:
You’re the only one so far who is plucking fairy-like arguments from the air.
I have quoted reputable news services to rebut your ridiculous claims of no job losses.
Unless you have a source to quote, the rubbish you’re spouting is hearsay and can only be laughed off.
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July 19th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Hey All,
Call me a hair-splitter, but has anyone actually considered the wording of the news releases?
More importantly the mass media is reporting the loss of “600 JOBS“, this is correct, 600 JOBS will be lost, but this doesn’t mean 600 STAFF. As Ford as stated (and others in this forum) they will be aiming to retain staff in different jobs.
ie: Ford will axe 600 Jobs but try to create new ones to replace them (possibly with the rumored Focus production line). This does not mean Ford will axe 600 staff.
Just my 2c and observation ;)
- DBP
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
^
Using that logic though it could be less or it could be more…. for eg you have 2 people doing a job then 600 jobs axed, you are going to have more people then 600 axed!!!
As for this, as someone said Ford are doing the right thing, they are a business…. their duty is to their shareholders not to employees (Double edged sword in this sense, keep employees but run losses so shareholders are screwed over or get rid of them so employees screwed over but shareholders benefit). Im sure they are going to do their best, reallocation and Im sure redundancy payouts… but at the end of the day Ford are a business, they are doing whats best for the company.
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Exactly DBP. That’s why it annoys me when the media throw around the “600 jobs lost” figure because it’s simply inaccurate. As you said, staff will be relocated to other parts of Ford (be that with the Focus assembly) or to the large new R&D centre setup.
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Superfresa said
July 19 2007 @ 8:48 am
“…and it doesn’t prove the engineer’s incompetence - rather, competent management”
Ok so I am just curious how much would it cost to develop the I6 to Euro standards. Give me a figure ?
Or better still get management to shoot it through so we can make a judgement on that one.
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Also just another thing that gets on my goat…..why on earth don’t Ford OZ market their products?? Some of the blame has to be lack of marketing. I mean I see dozens of ads on a weekend for, Holden this, or Holden that and nothing from Ford. The only time we see anything from Ford is when they are trying to run out stock because they haven’t been selling. Does anyone remember the original BA advert with the XR6T ??? Where is the imagination ?
Anyway……..
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July 19th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Paul logic defies all logic! Deathbypizza you are spot on ! Thats exactly what Ford are doing and if people get caught up in the media trash and beleive them then they are bigger idiots than the clown who wrote this article! Quote that Paul!=
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July 19th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Forgive me if i am wrong but does’nt the commodore use more fuel than falcon??
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July 19th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Did holden lay a few people off a while ago? or do people for get that?
For some reason i think some of you would like to see ford gone alltogether? The only marketing ford gets these days is all negative! FOR GODS SAKE FORD DO SOMETHING PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
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July 19th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Westy, you are spot on about the lack of advertisement at Ford. Indeed, I fear a large quantity of their products are being ignored by the public. Just the fact that Holden is seen aas a more Australian option than Ford shows that Fords marketing department is lacking.
About the engine, the truth is that I can’t give you a figure - I dont know it off by heart, lol. But its certainly a lot of money (Talking many millions), because it is one of the key points where Allan Mullaly is trying to Globalise Ford in. As posted before, pretty much every succesful manufacturer has a single set of running gear across the globe. So its deffinitely a large figure.
Benjie - I see you’ve set this moment aside to embarass and humilliate yourself in public. Is there anything else you would like to add before we stop laughing at your ignorance and poor attempts to attack anyone who doesn’t agree with you that A Current Affair isn’t the ultimate truth?
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July 19th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
IAN, the Commodore has a better fuel consumption than the Falcon on paper. However, The Falcon has consistently returned lower real world figures in tests and from private owners than the commodore - especially the 6 Speed Auto ones.
You are right, Ford should really be working out their marketing, because currently its not working.
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July 19th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
280zx, you agree with what Deathbypizza says, and so do I. You then say I’m defying logic. And what am I quoting.
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July 19th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Also, it’s rumoured that $40 Million will cover the upgrade to Euro4.
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July 19th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Superfresa,
So what exactly will cost so much to bring it inline with emissions targets ? Many millions you say but how many millions to start importing the whole engine for every Falcon/Territory and FPV variant ??
Also you said previously ‘..As said before, the I6 is just 50 years old - Its had a very long run! But now its too tall and long to be conveniant packaging-…’
Well I have a bone to pick with that statement. So we are saying because it is 50 years old it isn’t technologically advanced. I seem to remember the old started with pushrods, which the CURRENT Holden V8 still employs, even today!! So the argument about age is redundant.
Finally about Ford having a V6 already there under everyones noses. So we are saying that now if Ford OZ take on board a V6 exports will just fall in their lap. No worries. Orders are backed up ?? They don’t even market the product locally so how will that occur ? They should be paying attention to their local market first and foremost and listening to us. But to get bums on seats you have to have a good marketing platform on which to build up revenue. If no-one sees or hears how great it is, even if it is biased, like Holden ads show, then it is lost like the I6 is forever.
This is a great group of responders. Enjoying the banter. :)
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July 19th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
ooops missed a word in my statement…..
I seem to remember the old I6 started with pushrods, which the CURRENT Holden V8 still employs, even today!!
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July 19th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
PaulST,
$40 million, that’s nothing in todays terms for engine development. Holden Spent $1 billion on the VE.
Very interesting if it’s true.
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July 19th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Westy, $40 Mill is a lot for a company loosing as much money as Ford (thanks USA). The change to the imported V6 isn’t simply due to not wanting to spend money upgrading the I6, it’s also going to bring a lot of technology to the Falcon (ie. DI, TT, DoD, hybrids, E85) which Ford Aus would have struggled to justify if they were only making 70,000 of them per year as opposed to around 1,000,000 Duratec V6s.
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July 19th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Westy, you’re right there about the Holdens being Pushrod and so on. The problem is that the I6 has several limitations; Its too tall to pass modern pedestrian safety, It’s a long Iron block, so it takes a long time to warm up to working temperature, packaging (As mentioned many times before), and also the Falcon has a PERCEIVED poor fuel economy, as well as lower power outputs than both the alloytech V6 Commodore and the Aurion V6 (Though more torque).
The thing is, why develop two engines when they can develop just one and spend the rest of the money on other things? I mean, they COULD have a V6 engine for America. And another one for Europe. And the I6 for Australia. And another one for Asia. And perhaps another one for South America. And one more for Africa. But why spend $50M on each, if they’re all similar capacity and so on? Its a waste of money. Besides, that sort of redundancies is what has Ford in its financial situation. Think about it - they have the Falcon platform, the Mustang platform, the Crown vic, the Taurus, and so on. Meanwhile, Toyota had The Camry. Full stop. How could they remain competitive by having so many cars of the same size and so on? Its the same with the engine. And as PaulST said, you gain a lot of new technologies with that too, and save money which could be invested, for example, in developing new safety technologies, or dedicated to a LHD conversion for export…
Moving to V6 wont guarantee exports, But sticking to the I6 pretty much guarantees that exports wont happen…
BTW, yeah thanks for the discussion ;) Comes to show that its better to discuss than to childishly accuse others of being fan-bois when you dont agree ;)
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July 19th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Some great points being debated, and I couldn’t agree more in relation to the lack-lustre marketing of Ford products, let alone the apalling dealer backup they offer. In fact I’d say that the level of service you get at Ford dealerships is probably a bigger issue than anything as to why people are choosing other brands, but I guess that’s another topic for another time.
So not to stray to far from this topic, in my opinion (and at the risk of sounding repetitive) there should be some assessment of the aggressive tariff reduction policy, to ensure we don’t cut our nose off to spite our face, and continue to overpressure our local manufacturing industry.
Finally it appears that at some levels of government there is a similar awakening. From this news story http://carsguide.news.com.au/s.....2,00.html, the following quote actually makes some sense…
“Victorian Premier Steve Bracks urged the Howard Government to reconsider its planned 5 per cent tariff reduction on imported cars, due in 2010, in an effort to help the domestic car market.
“We believe, if you look at what’s happening worldwide, where we don’t see the concurrent reduction in the tariff barriers of other countries, that there is a strong case to put to have a pause on that tariff reduction and to not implement that by 2010,” he said.
We’ve already lost our iconic Oz Ford I6, and I’d hate to see Australia lose the likes of the falcon/commodore based on loose government policy. Take a look around the world and see if other countries are reducing their barriers before we do the same. Why must Australia be the first to drop it’s skirt?
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July 19th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Some great points being debated, and I couldn’t agree more in relation to the lack-lustre marketing of Ford products, let alone the apalling dealer backup they offer. In fact I’d say that the level of service you get at Ford dealerships is probably a bigger issue than anything as to why people are choosing other brands, but I guess that’s another topic for another time.
So not to stray to far from this topic, in my opinion (and at the risk of sounding repetitive) there should be some assessment of the aggressive tariff reduction policy, to ensure we don’t cut our nose off to spite our face, and continue to overpressure our local manufacturing industry.
Finally it appears that at some levels of government there is a similar awakening. From this news story http://carsguide.news.com.au/s…..2,00.html, the following quote actually makes some sense…
“Victorian Premier Steve Bracks urged the Howard Government to reconsider its planned 5 per cent tariff reduction on imported cars, due in 2010, in an effort to help the domestic car market.
“We believe, if you look at what’s happening worldwide, where we don’t see the concurrent reduction in the tariff barriers of other countries, that there is a strong case to put to have a pause on that tariff reduction and to not implement that by 2010,” he said.
We’ve already lost our iconic Oz Ford I6, and I’d hate to see Australia lose the likes of the falcon/commodore based on loose government policy. Take a look around the world and see if other countries are reducing their barriers before we do the same. Why must Australia be the first to drop it’s skirt?
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July 19th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
wow i hadnt been here for 24 hours and it seems like it took me 2hrs to read all this. i forget who said what now.
i feel the real reason behind this is globalisation.
dont give me fuel consumption
dont give me large car sales slump
dont give me out dated motor stuff
all this stuff is just a smoke screen to help those who dont know much about life to find reason.
i have a fat $50 on the new V6 not being any better on fuel consumption. just take a look at holden and toyota. the 4.0l inline gives same consumption as the 3.5L toyota V6.
i do know who wrote this one though….
Paul, i love the way you always try to find/put a negative spin on anything that is not toyota.
DeathByPizza points out that it doesnt mean 600 people get sacked as it states “job losses” what it could be worded as is position losses. cause paul lets not assume that 1 person is classified as doing half a job meaning its actually 1200 people/positions, that would be silly now wouldnt it
my thoughts,
i can see why this is being done as it makes very good business sence.
its just a shame to see one of the best motors go
remember this
Most torque out of a 6 in the world
Most torque out of a 6 or 8 in Australia
Torque has been fords standout trademark. its also a shame that the falcon will have to blend into the crowd.
i have seen the torque stats on the twin force V6 and it still doesnt match what the typhoon has.
oh yeah i think people should stop believing the media. the breaking headline had to read “600 sacked shame on ford” to grab peoples attention. because “ford restructure their operations” would have been lucky to surface to page 30. people just love to find the negativity.
very well said by most people!!!
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July 19th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
9 years ago wheels ran a story that the falcon would be killed off by the next model change. To be replaced by the taurus. Its failure against the ef/el falcon at the time saved the falcon. But the writing has been on the wall for a long time. Look at Holden in the 80s it was bankrupt until GM pulled it out. That will not happen now for either Ford or Holden, their US owners are now in debt so if either run anyting at a loss they will just be shut down. It will be a sad day when the l6 stops production but if Ford needs to cut off dead limbs to stay alive so be it. At least we will still have an aus Falcon and maybe it will be sold like the VE to other countries. It is needed so the other Ford jobs can continue, dont forget Ford may assemble the v6 here so not all is lst just yet.
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July 19th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Andrew M, are you referring to me or another Paul?
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July 20th, 2007 at 8:57 am
PaulST, I was confused too, but I think he’s refering to, just “Paul”, who posted earlier on (scroll up ;))
Ford is now rumoured to be stopping opperations in Thailand - I guess with the Ranger being moved to being developed in Australia, they can do without the Thailand division. As you can see, losing the I6 engine is the least of what could’ve happened…
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July 21st, 2007 at 1:28 am
yep, this website has really gone to shit
sorry alborz
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July 21st, 2007 at 5:31 am
Looks like the kids are back saying the same shyite.
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July 21st, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Sorry guys, I was wrong. I was mislead by the amateur article by these inexperienced writers at CarAdvice. Perhaps in the future, they will write more thought out articles that ignorant people like me follow like blind sheep. I can actually admit that I am ignorant. I blame Caradvice.
I had a previous entry stating this, but the editors deleted it. This site is crap.
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July 21st, 2007 at 3:43 pm
It must be the school holidays, people imitating me with foul language and misleading statements are far from amusing.
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July 21st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Even if Ford continued to develop the I6, they’d be competing globally with not only Ford’s global Duratec V6, but also Volvo’s range of I5 and I6 engines displacing 2.5-3.2L and also featuring turbo technology.
The European manufacturers are switching onto this, and the rest of the world will soon follow. These large displacement engines, or even engines of all displacements, are going to be phased out for smaller, supercharged/turbocharged engines that are more efficient, especially when driven sedately.
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July 21st, 2007 at 10:09 pm
kids these days!
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July 21st, 2007 at 10:25 pm
with the 4.4 v6 turbo diesel in u.s 248kw and 698nm i know its gonna be good.
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July 22nd, 2007 at 12:22 am
That’s true Jacob and I wholeheartedly agree, but at the end of the day 600 people will be left without jobs.
That figure is also understated when you take into account all the suppliers for the I6 engine - which there were plenty of.
As with everyone else, I want to see the success of Ford, but feel ashamed that they have flicked so many people.
Life does go on but, meh, I just don’t feel good about a company I have loved for such a long time giving so many devoted and long-serving employees the can.
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July 22nd, 2007 at 2:26 am
These job losses arent something in the immediate short term though. Of course its never a good thing for it to happen, but its a fact of life - especially in the motor industry.
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July 23rd, 2007 at 11:22 am
** NOT DISGRACE!! **
300 new jobs at Ford
Good on them!
http://www.theage.com.au/news/.....89026.html
[Everybody now say sorry to FOMOCO]
F-O
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July 23rd, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Press release: http://www.fordaustraliaforums.....hp?t=25595
Ford Australia’s announcement that the Focus will be built here in Australia must be slightly embarrassing for you Benjie? Especially since you criticized others for suggesting that an announcement was only days away.
Back to class mate.
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July 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 pm
front page news here now :D
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July 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Havent you heard ? These people still have jobs for the next 3 years..they have not been sacked. In this time they have plenty of time to find other jobs inside or outside of Ford. Maybe they can even improve their skills in this time and get a better job?? With the Focus being bult here 300 jobs in Melbourne and who knows how many in the stamping plant in Geelong. Ford have to re-align themelves in a world market or they will go out of business. Eveyone must go through change so these 600 people have 3 years to decide what they want to do. Holden sacked 600 people and gave them 2 weeks notice…………Ford gave 3 years.
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July 25th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I hope events like this make people realise that buying products made in australia is very important. Isnt it better to have jobs than to save $5 a week in petrol?
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August 15th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
This is the most pungent piece of crap I have ever in my life heard of. What a sorry bunch of people you guys are. The very first comment made by Ford Employee is completely correct. Put yourself in the shoes of heads of Ford Australia. How would you like to have the information handed to you that if the I6 engine was to continue production longer then X amount of time, you could bankrupt entirely!?
It’s not something I particularly like to see, I really do feel sad for all the people that have lost their jobs in Geelong. But thats the way life is… And it is no one’s fault at Ford, its the general public for not supporting the only Australian built engine left.
So before you go blaming the people that had to make the necessary decisions at Ford, think hard about who really is to blame.
I would also like to point out, that should anything really bad happen to Ford over here, the Ford USA, SVT, Prodrive, Mazda, Volvo, Lincoln, Landrover, Mercury and Jaguar would stick their necks out to help. As much as some of you people don’t like it, we are actually friends with the “yanks”.
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