Mazda to seek Toyota’s help with hybrids – report
July 17, 2009 by Matt Brogan
Mazda, keen to join the hybrid vehicle onslaught, will join forces with Toyota in securing the required techonology.
In much the same way Nissan licensed its early hybrid technology from Toyota, Mazda will now follow a similar tack according to a report published in Nikkei business daily.
It is reported that Toyota will supply Mazda with the core parts for its forthcoming hybrid vehicles which are due to hit the market by 2013 with Mazda planning to sell 100,000 hybrid units annually.
While it’s unclear which Mazda model is to receive the hybrid treatment, early tips are on the popular Mazda3 model.
Tags: mazda hybrid
*****PRIMO!*****
Well i have noted that Mazda’s are never frugal [no relation!} on fuel use, so its a good deal for both.
BigT[tm.F-0] already have “arrangements” with other car makers for hybrid technology, nothing new here, after all why bother inventing the wheel when BigT have already done all the hard miles!
Wonder which models, hybrid RX8?
Cheers
F-0
I would have thought the Mazda6 would be a perfect fit for a hybrid drivetrain.
Should try the hybrid with their Hydrogen Rotary in the RX-8.
I thought Mazda were better forward thinkers. Just now they are playing catch up? Better late than never. Allot of hype around hybrid. What about hydrogen?
The hype about hydrogen was over its ability to provide zero emission motoring, however in reality it provides no less emissions than plug in vehicles.
Fuel cell cars.. hmm.. seems like the hype about them has long gone. I guess everyone seems to be agreeing that the hybrid is the next step. 5 years from now it will be interesting to see what cars are on sale :D
Mazda, 15 years late to the party – will there be any food left on the table?
Well this is one way for Toyota to re-coup some money that it was sued for stealing hybrid tech in the first place
Wow – this is a huge slap in the face for Ford.
Now let me see – do I buy the Ugly Prius or the Stylish Mazda3 with the same mechanicals (or shoud that be Electricals)
Toyota’s Prius sales will dive if this comes to fruition, unless Toyota is getting smart and demanding Mazda’s Zoom Zoom design expertise in return, haha.
I hate the tail lights on the new Mazda 3. Why are they so huge?
Mazda have not abandonded hydrogen technology, it just wont be ready in time for when the new CAFE regs come into effect in the US. In the meantime they need hybrids to get their emmissions down.
Not something they wanted to do but they didnt really have a choice.
definitely late than never…good for Mazda to finally join the hybrid technology. Mazda fanatics would probably still buy Mazda hybrid cars over other brands…I’m still keeping my fingers cross on this news…
The latest issue of Wheels tested both the Corolla and Mazda3… the real world fuel consumption of the Corolla 4-speed auto is 6.7L/100km and the Mazda3 5-speed auto is 8.6L/100km.
I am not saying everyone should go out and get a Corolla as it would be too boring. But Toyota technology > Mazda technology.
Toyota didn’t steal any hybrid technology, it was infact nothing more then a microchip they manufactuered that was indentical to a patented chip that was already in use by another company. No hardware what so ever was copied.
andrew m,
wash your dirty mouth before open up.
think the fact before accusing TOYOTA.
WE ALL KNEW YOU BOGANS ARE NOTHING BUT LOUSY PEOPLE AND TOYOTA BASHERS FOR NOTHING.
Soon,
so how does this work…..
Is everyone who doesnt buy a Toyota a Bogan????
FYI Both of the cars I own are the un disputed class leaders of the categories they compete in.
If thats Bogan buying behaviour, then im guilty
On the hybrid topic…..
IMO Hyundai/Kia are about to pull every other manufacturers pants down (of the main players). On paper their new systems are very promising, Im just waiting to see how they perform in the real world
Leone – It may just be a microchip; However; its the microchip which a lot of Toyotas Hybrid Drive System relies on inorder to operate and as a result Toyota were heavily fined for an infringement of US patent Laws for intellectual property
Soon – we could say the same thing about those who bag Ford and Holden.. because just as you believe that comments made by us Bogan Toyota Bashers are incorrect etc yet the same applies to comments made by you and your crew in relation to Holden and Ford…. Qui Pro Quo
Andrew M,
I don’t believe Soon ever said that anyone not driving a Toyota is a bogan?! But then again non-comprehending other people’s posts is such a bogan thing to do!!
But your tall poppie syndrome, causing you to discredit
Toyota’s tech as stolen. That is such an envious bogan thing to do!! Got Proof????
And nothing quite says “I’m bogan” like a bright lime coloured ute!! Yuck….. Do you wear bright yellow singlets to match?!!
Andrew M Says:”
FYI Both of the cars I own are the un disputed class leaders of the categories they compete in.”
It’s not too hard to be a class leader in a two horse race!!
I am starting to think that considering how much the word BOGAN gets thrown around on this site [particularly by those who prefer a particular Japanese brand]
Is because it’s a way of making themselves either feel or appear to be better [in some way] than someone else when in fact its most likely that they are no different – if not worse than those who they label as a Bogan..
It’s almost as if they think that Bogans only drive Holdens and Fords – which gives you an idea as to how ignorant they are/can be
The same applies to the term W@nker [another term used by those who prefer a particular Japanese brand].. They use it when talking about premium luxury performance cars [mainly BMWs] to make it sound as though those who own/drive one do so just because of the badge etc as its all about image.. Yet the same could be said for Lexus owners
Yet if truth be known [in both cases] given the chance they wouldn’t mind owning one.. that is if they could pull themselves [pardon the pun] out of their Lex-otas and walk into the dealership.
I mean both terms are mentioned so much on this site that they’ve virtually lost their effect let alone their meaning.
You want Proof…? Although I know that you won’t believe it here it is anyway Tomas
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/0.....ringement/
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0.....for-prius/
Now if Toyota weren’t fined for breaching US patent laws for the microchip…. then why did they appeal?
Tomas,
Do you actually think that calling me a bogan is going to force a tear down my cheek or something????
I mean fair dinkum is that all you have got…..name calling……
Also you may want to get your facts right.
Are you implying I have a bright lime cououred vehicle?????? WRONG
Are you saying that both my vehicles only compete in a 2 horse race???? WRONG
No, soon didnt directly say anyone not driving a toyota is a bogan, but im clever enough to read between the lines
You will have to give me more time on digging up the details of the hybrid infringement settlement details, im not the best at surfing the web.
Also whats with the bright yellow singlet tag????
If you were trying to go further with the bogan image, I would have thought the navy singlet would have been more the angle…..
people who wear bright yellow singlets are safety conscious people.
Bogans arent safety conscious
Thanks wheelie,
thats sort of what i was looking for
Wheelnut exactly, infringing a patent is hardly stealing and copying things …
There many devices i could design and try to sell right now, which would cause a patent infringement!! Without me ever looking over anybodies shoulder….
Wheelnut, you have admitted before that you accept Toyota never stole any technology regarding hybrid’s, but that you just like to trot out that dribble to stir up the Toyota people. You have been called a few times on this so just give it up.
Infringement [noun]: a breach or infraction; as of a law. a violation.
the act or an instance of infringing; especially : the unauthorized use of copyrighted or patented material or of a trademark trade name, or trade dress
NOTE: Infringement of a trademark, trade name, or trade dress involves use of one by the infringer that is the same as that of the owner or so similar that it is likely to deceive or to cause confusion or mistake on the part of the average purchaser.
Infringement of a copyright involves the copying of a material and substantial portion of the protected work. If the alleged infringer denies copying.
Which is what Toyota did they broke the law – and therefore received a fine.. just as you would for stealing – although being a company the fine was much greater
They were deemed to have breached US Patent law as the microchip which the Prius relies on to operate was deemed to be identical to the one developed by Solomon Technologies.. They stole the idea; the material the object and they denied it.
Things would have been different had Toyota done a bit more research and asked Solomon Technologies if they could have the rights to use the chip.
Steve – since when have I said anything on this site which is in anyway positive about Toyota the company their cars or their fans..?
So why would I come to their defence in relation to a court case where the evidence shows that Toyota breached US patent laws and were fined?
Anti-Spam word: Prius
Ok, Andrew M,
What colour is your Ute, If not Bright lime green?
And don’t give some BS marketing name like “Destiny”?!
As for “Are you saying that both my vehicles only compete in a 2 horse race???? WRONG”
I don’t know what your other car is… but I’m saying your Ute competes in a two horse race!! Unless you reckon jimbuck is a performance ute, or your ute has 4×4 vehicle origins…
“No, soon didnt directly say anyone not driving a toyota is a bogan, but im clever enough to read between the lines”
If you say so… But thats not what I reed.
And how come you are not clever enough to understand my bright yellow singlet statement…
Anyway this is getting too bicker…
Ok les disect this back from where it all started shall we…….
QUOTE……………
Andrew M Says:
July 17th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Well this is one way for Toyota to re-coup some money that it was sued for stealing hybrid tech in the first place
……………………………………………….
OK,
Did Toyota lose money as a result of a fine/law suit (or whatever you want to call it) stemming from the use of someone elses technology?????
YES
Will Toyota receive money/royalties from Mazda for the asistance they will lend it hybrid tech??
YES
Could that money effectively help them re-coup the money they lost????
YES
Did Toyota steal the tech??
Well Im sure they didnt do it at knife point with a stocking over their head, but using someone elses legal property in the form of an idea with out permission is effectively stealing.
I dont understand why it boiled into such a touchy subject.
I was just commenting that it would be a nice little stream of revenue from Mazda for Toyota, and apparently thats a bogan thing to say.
I mention Toyota and Mazda an apparently thats Bogan speak???? Go figure
Wheelnut, seriously… you spent all that time typing up what infringement is, as if we didn’t know… And still failed to counter my original argument of being able to infringe on a patent, with out doing so intentionally. Actually a vast majority of products on the market do so already, except nobody spends the time researching, or bothering to pursue it in the patent office!!
Also, I worked as a full custom IC designer (Chip design) in germany, and did my thesis on it here in Australia. So please let me know what exactly they copied?!
Miniskip,
“[particularly by those who prefer a particular Japanese brand]”
save us all that bable, you too sound like a Toyota bashing bogan…
I dont know any people on this site that
“[particularly by those who prefer a particular Japanese brand]” apart from d_ngo, and he hasn’t been around for ages. But I know a few bogans that trying to flink crap at Toyota every chance they get!! And you sound just like one of them!!
Are you sure you’re not Bavarian missile, who has been resorting to changing her nick recently??!!
Anyway, I’m off for a few hours… I suggest you guys do the same!!
Wheelnut, I never said you said anything positive about Toyota, even I am not dumb enough to think that. I just recall another Hyrbid article where you went on with the same old story of Toyota stealing the whole hybrid technology. When you were called on it and proven that any ‘theft’ related only to a microchip, you admitted that you knew this and only brought out the hyrbid theft story to stir up Toyota people.
Tomas79 says: “…and nothing quite says “I’m bogan” like a bright lime coloured ute!!…..”
Really I thought nothing said Bogan like driving around in a Dark [Forest] Green Prado
..and what would really finish it of is a set Western Star or RM Williams Mudflaps.. go on Tomas you know you want to
Golfschwein emits gentle sigh. Always fightin’, Tomas 79, always fightin’.
Why?
Tomas – I didn’t post the definition of the word infringment for everyone.. as I suspect the majority of people on here knows what it means…. it was just for you
Fact of the matter is Toyota got caught they got taken to court [by Solomon Technologies] they were charged lost and they were fined end of story..
BTW I didn’t start this arguement on the stolen hybrid technology…. Leone did.
Here you go Tomas79 [and Co] who doesn\’t think that Toyota does anything illegal… Read this:
http://www.autoblog.com/2005/0.....ment-suit/
Quote ” Did Toyota steal the tech??
Well Im sure they didnt do it at knife point with a stocking over their head, but using someone elses legal property in the form of an idea with out permission is effectively stealing.”
Spot on Andrew,some should just admit when they are wrong and pay the penalty,including public shame !
With all due respect guys, please keep this discussion clean from any racial banters and poor taste comments. If this goes on, Caradvice might change the way they moderate and filter comments before publishing it and it will take longer to see them online – if any.
It takes only a few to ruin it for all!
Seems like a good deal for Toyota. I’m curious as to how much of their technology would Toyota agree to help all these companies with… Also, with their factories making hybrid powertrain for themselves, how would they be able to fulfill all these plug-in demands from other companies? Does that mean that all hybrid cars whose system are supplied by Toyota will have a drive feel that is similar or worse than a Prius?
Hmmm…. Good utilisation, but I don’t know if it is good business sense altogether.
Wheelnut, do us all a favour and tell the correct story and not a line of lies.
Toyota were not fined, they were infact directed to pay a $25 royality fee for each hybrid unit produced which is a pitance compared to the several thousands of dollars per unit sold.
Simple coverage really, just tak another $25 on the purchase price.
Furthermore, i didn’t start any arguement – simply highlighted that a microchip is the centre of attention that some personalities are exaggerting the matter upon.
Eitherway, Toyota not only continues to lead the develpment of hybrid technology but an increasing amount of other car makers are pitching towards obtaining assistance from the one whom obviously been the most successful with the adventure.
Ford nearly made a similar mistake with many of their hybrid parts designs becoming closely identical to that of many of Toyota’s patented designs and subsequently had no choice but to come to an arrangement with Toyota yet i see no mention about the subject from yourself regarding the this.
I recently read an article on an American website that even GM is potentially interested in rebadging it’s own version of the new Prius and have arranged a converence with the Japanese brand sometime in August / September this year.
Leone – you are obviously angle parked in a parallel universe
Because as far as I am aware a fine is considered to be a financial penalty imposed by a court or law enforcement agency for breaching a particular law.. is it not?
As the various articles relating to this issue have said – Toyota were ordered BY A COURT in the USA to PAY $25 for each individual hybrid car sold/
Yes they could simply add $25 on to the purchase price of each Hybrid they sold in the future..
However; they also had to multiply every Hybrid that they had sold up to that point by $25 – which worked out to be quite a substantial figure [given that the Prius had been on sale for almost a decade]
Either way fact of the matter is Toyota broke the law they got found out; they got taken to court; they were found guilty and were ordered by the court to pay a financial penalty; which they appealed and subsequently lost – again
In relation to the issue regarding Ford and Toyota.. the difference is Toyota didn’t take Ford to court.. because as you yourself said:
“Ford nearly made a similar mistake with many of their hybrid parts designs becoming closely identical to that of many of Toyota’s patented designs and subsequently had no choice but to come to an arrangement with Toyota”
Ford did some research etc before going ahead with the project and saw that a similar system already existed; a system which was developed and pateneted by Toyota Therefore; Ford asked Toyota for assistance thereby avoiding any legal action – and a fine
Pity Toyota didn’t do the same with Solomon Technologies..
Although I suspect Toyota knew about the chip from Solomon Technologies.. and went ahead anyway thinking that no-one would dare take on the worlds biggest car manufacturer in a law suit .. [and if they did; they thought Toyota would win.
wheelnut – if you are sad enough person to spend your weekends trying to demonize Toyota over an infringement of a microchip then you truely need to get out and about alot more.
Quite frankly, the overwhelming majority of people couldn’t give two-hoots about a fallout over a microchip and also certainly doesn’t subtract from reality that Toyota is clearly the innovative leader where hybrid technology is concerned.
You have invested alot of energy discussing an infringement of a microchip yet virtually no time highlightly why Toyota has been able to not only gradually breakdown the negative mould against hybrid drivetrains ofwhich an increasing amount of other car makers are now moving towards but why they have by far been the most successful developers.
Joining Ford and Nissan, now Mazda wants in with Toyota – says alot really and it probably won’t be the last car maker to ask Toyota for assistance.
I know were my respect stands.
Geezes, different article, same people starting the same fights, over and over again. Reading this website and the ridiculous comments is like being in your very own version of Groundhog Day.
So much for the new rating system putting a stop to this crap.
Oh, hi Drongo. Sorry for doing a trace on you so soon. Don’t you run the risk of losing your home through legal action via the Commonwealth wotsaname if you come on here?
This blog full of rubbish comments from the same group of people who arguing the same thing.. all the time… Toyota vs Holden & Ford. Toyota basher team as usual BM Wheelnut DesignEng and i think they’re the same person anyway. Just got to much time on their hand, should really get a life dude. I think this blog are become rubbish article with your idiotic comments. Do you realise that Wheelnut aka BM aka DesignEng?
Wheelnut, so many posts, yet you still failed to counter my original argument.
Golfschwein, whats with stupid questions and statements, if you don’t have anything to say on topic, why bother?
Also brownnose, why don’t you ask wheelnut, or BM, why they always fight? They certainly do that more then anyone else!!!
Thomas69 is a tossle.Lol
Sigh….so much fightin’, Tomas79. So much fightin’…
To those who believe that toyota didn’t break any laws or steal anything
May I remind you about 10 years ago a poseur/pretender by the name of Vanilla Ice was taken to court for using the music from the song “under pressure” by legendary rock band Queen as the backing music for his song Ice Ice Baby..
He was also charged with breaching the law in relation to intellectual property copyrights and trademarks etc.
He lowered the volume of the vocals yet if you listen carefully and have a good quality sound system you can hear Freddy Mercury and David Bowie singing in the background
So even though he didn’t actually steal anything “physical” like a car etc he was still charged and fined for using “property” which belongs to another party without permission
which is a form of stealing.
He used something which wasn’t his and tried to pass it off as his – as an original song
The same applies to Toyota with the microchip used by the Prius.. Hopefully this settles the matter once and for all
Jees, these bogans certainly aren’t too bright, are they?
Fact1) Solomon technologies, didn’t file for a patent infringement for “microchip technology”.
Wheelnut and co, you provided the links, and write up long essays on the topic, so how about you morons actually read the links for your self’s first!!!!
Fact2) Solomon technologies infringement claim has been thrown out of the court back in 2008!!
As I have said a few times before to infringe upon a patent you don’t actually have to steal or copy anything.
All you have to do is create a product, with attributes that have already been patented by another firm. This happens with big corporations all the time, but rarely it is picked up upon, unless a patent is owned by a patent troll. ( A patent troll is a scam firm with a business model to file concepts without the intention of ever developing the idea or just to negotiate some kind of licensing deal.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll
Fact 3) The microchip patent infringement claim has been won by Paice LLC a famous patent troll firm.
Fresh towels, Tomas79?
Good on Mazda. They need help. So its not coming from Ford it has to be a competitor who is on the bleeding edge on hybrids, Toyota.
Doesn’t matter who comes up with the technology, its who makes use of it and consumers start buying them. Apple didn’t invent the mp3 player, it created a brand called iPod and dominates the market because of design flare and marketing.
Joe,
You’re a loser mate, why bring me into this slanging match when I haven’t even commented?
Don’t even know why you want to label me as a “Toyota basher” – I express opinions on many makes.
And BTW how the he11 can I be wheelnut or BM when I’m in a different state?
Just because you change your name all the time doesn’t mean everyone else does. D1ngbat!
Thats interesting stuff Tomas. How many hours did you work on trying to defend you case ?
Sugar coat and spin it around as much as you like Tomas but the fact is Toyota were fined .