Car Advice

Ford improves FG safety & fuel economy

By Matt Brogan |

Ford Australia has today announced a number of significant fuel economy and CO2 emissions improvements across its FG Falcon and SY Territory series vehicle range.

Revisions to the safety of Australia’s only dedicated LPG vehicle, the E-Gas Falcon, have also improved with the vehicle now scoring a five-star ANCAP rating.

From April 2009 production, a Falcon XT sedan – when fitted with the optional ZF six-speed automatic transmission – will have a fuel consumption rating of just 9.9 litres per 100km.

Accompanying the reduction in fuel economy is a reduction in CO2 tailpipe emissions – down to 236 g/km.

Key contributors to the improved fuel efficiency on I6 petrol (4.0-litre six cylinder) Falcon sedan models include a new, latest generation catalytic converter, a new engine calibration for improved cold start performance and a further optimised transmission calibration.

“Over the past five years, our engineering team has developed fuel efficiency improvements of almost 14 per cent on this powertrain, helping to reduce a key operating cost for our customers, while also reducing the vehicle’s impact on the environment by way of CO2 emissions,” Mr Burela said. “However, these fuel efficiency improvements have not come at the expense of performance – in fact both power and torque have also steadily improved over the same time frame, delivering on a key customer want of more performance and better fuel economy.

“Since the new Falcon was introduced last year, we have continued our process of ongoing engineering development and refinement of the award-winning FG Falcon range. This development has delivered genuine fuel economy improvements on volume-selling six-cylinder sedans fitted with the six-speed automatic transmission.

“The Falcon XT with a six-speed auto now equals the fuel efficiency of the top selling medium-size four cylinder auto model currently sold in Australia. Customers can now choose a true family size vehicle that delivers fuel efficiency equal with a four cylinder model, while also providing all the traditional benefits of a large car package, such as performance, refinement, interior space, passenger comfort, five-star safety, luggage capacity and towing capability.”

These improvements have been engineered without any degradation in the vehicle’s performance.

fg_falcon_xt_file_001

E-Gas powered FG Falcon sedans and utes plus BF MkIII wagon models have also managed an upshift in safety thanks to the introduction of Dynamic Stability Control (DSC – also known as ESP) across the range.

A unique DSC calibration has been developed for E-Gas vehicles, combining brake intervention, throttle control and spark retard, to improve active safety levels on E-Gas vehicles.

The introduction of DSC on E-Gas-powered models now means the entire FG Falcon sedan range will be equipped with the latest in chassis control systems, ensuring every model in the range comes with a five-star safety rating from ANCAP.

Ford also announced that it intends to increase the availability of its E-Gas technology to include the Falcon XR6 sedan from the third quarter of this year.

“The dedicated LPG E-Gas engine will be available as an option on the Falcon XR6 sedan, which will give customers greater choice by combining the lower fuel costs of LPG-powered vehicles with the distinctive visual appeal of the Falcon XR brand,” Mr Burela said.

The Falcon XR6 sedan with E-Gas will include DSC as standard equipment, as per all other E-Gas sedan models in the FG Falcon range from May 2009 production onwards.

syii_territory_file_001

Fuel economy improvements have also been achieved on Ford’s SY Territory with the introduction of the new look SY Territory MkII range, which will begin production during April.

Thanks to revisions including a new, latest generation catalytic converter, a revised powertrain calibration, improved aerodynamic performance from the new front end design and reduced kerb weights, significant reductions in fuel consumption have been achieved, particularly on five-seat RWD models.

A reduction of almost five per cent, or 0.6 litres per 100km, has been achieved on Territory TX and TS RWD models (five-seater), while the rest of the RWD range, including all seven-seat variants, have improved by 1.6 per cent or 0.2 litres per 100km.

The Territory also gains additional equipment and features across the range with TX models gaining side airbags, cruise control, body colour cladd pack and 17-inch alloy wheels as standard.

Territory TS will now include body colour cladd pack, reverse parking camera, front fog lamps, leather-wrapped steering wheel, handbrake and gearshift, and a third row seat as standard.

Ghia models also gain a third row seat as standard equipment, along with an Alpine rear DVD system, side steps, rear privacy glass and 18-inch alloy wheels, while the Ghia Turbo picks up the same list of additions and a new alloy wheel design.


 
  • JasonP

    Also, they really, really promise that the brakes will work on the Territory.

    Probably.

    :-)

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    Well done Ford, pity the Barra is going to be phased out soon. I’m sure they could do more to it with direct injection.

    Nice dig levelled at Toyota too.

    If I had to, I’d buy a Falcon over a Camry.

  • JasonP

    Absolutely.

    Camry doesn’t add up anymore.

  • Devil666

    Supercujo, me too.

  • PG

    ummm Barra’s will be around until at least 2013 (V6 program was canned November 08) in Falcons & possibly longer with large export deals being negotiated at the moment which could justify developement dollars being spent.

  • Andrew M

    Thats right PG,
    The new president at ford OZ MB has a massivge soft spot for the I6 and is working over time to secure its life beyond the currently penned in 2013 guideline

    I also love the dig regarding fuel consumption.

    Also the other bit is they didnt have to sacrifice performance like a certain other competitor did

    I thought you could already get the XR6 sedan in E-Gas, but I checked and you currently cant.
    You have always been able to get the XR6 Ute version on E-Gas right from BA,BF and FG

  • Motorhead

    0.2L per 100km isn’t a great deal in reality but getting into the single figures passes a big psychological barrier in many peoples mind especially fleets.

    Adding DSC on LPG is a big plus especially to fleets who previously had to weigh up OH&S safety concerns against the cost & environmental benefits of gas.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Andrew M…..XR6 was previously available for short time with E-Gas and currently not.

    Great work by Ford and my other half is wrapped in her base new Falcon stating to me its fuel economy is unreal and car is fault free. Thats after 17K in 4months!

  • Andrew M

    NM,
    thats what threw me.
    I was sure that the XR6 was previously available in E-Gas, thanks for clearing that up.

    The XR6 ute has always been available in E-Gas form

    My FG has also been faultless.
    Quality is a big step up.
    Its cxertainly a falcon to be proud of Ford

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    I wonder if Ford have considered a 3L turbo direct injection motor? It would rev better and with a turbo it would be a pretty efficient base spec motor.

  • Zorro

    Australia’s best car just got better. Private buyers and fleets, if you’re in the market, check it out – it’s the best in class by a country mile.

  • Falcodore

    Does that mean they’ve got the new gas injection system cause i didnt think DSC worked with the mixer type system?

    If they get an export program up and running for this engine they could then justify giving it DI and making it EURO V compliant. Imagine the economy and power it would have. Economy of a corolla with the power of a V8… Awesome! :)

  • Andrew M

    Falcadore,
    I also assume that it would need direct injection LPG for DSC to work.

    Im still keen to find out what changes they have made to the LPG system beyond putting DSC onto it

  • Falcodore

    Thats what i thought also Andrew M, thats why i asked if they changed it from the venturi mixer type system to the injection system. Maybe someone at CA could clarify this for us?

  • The Realist

    JasonP Says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
    “Camry doesn’t add up anymore.”

    Agreed. I’d take an Accord Euro in that price range.

    Zorro Says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
    “Australia’s best car just got better. Private buyers and fleets, if you’re in the market, check it out – it’s the best in class by a country mile.”

    Second hand makes more sense, some bargains in the 6 month old category for these cars.

  • omgwot

    Why would anyone buy a Bommodore or a Conformry now?

    Good work Ford, I hope you now get the sales success you deserve for this fine Aussie made car.

  • Buck

    Great move by Ford and very well done indeed to get a big car into single figures.

    Drove a G6ET the other day and was very impressed.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Ford or Holden still dont have a single car on the Top Performers with the Australian Green Vehicle Guide. CA, will these changes to the Ford get them on the list?????

  • Frontman

    Sorry guys no info on Di lpg. All info just on DSC so can confidently say that the engine hasn’t been upgraded yet! wouldn’t expect it till FG11 anyhows. Another snippet that was missed was BF111 Wagons are now standard with Heavy duty suspension. Whilst most of you believe it was wrong for BF111 to continue, check the marketing campaigns. None on wagon as they are a solid seller.

  • Will

    Although the Falcon is not my kind of machine, for a US subsidiary I think E-Gas is a step in the right direction. Now they just have to market appropriately.

  • Phil C.

    Australia’s best family car just got better.

    Just as a comparison to the Camry.
    Camry 9.9L/100km, 117kW/218Nm 2.4L 4cyl, 9.5s 0-100kmh
    Falcon 9.9L/100km, 195kW/391Nm 4.0L 6cyl, 7.1s 0-100kmh

    PS My neighbour got his new FG XR6 2 weeks ago to replace his VZ Berlina and loves the power, torque, economy, features and refinement.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Camry times for 0-100 would mean one would fall asleep behind wheel as boring bland trip to get there!

  • J

    Falcon is 200kgs heavier than Camry, too…

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Yep….the game has changed!

  • Frosty

    The Fouldunnycan will never out sell the Commodore while it still looks the same as a BF and the sales are proving that. One thing I dont get is how come a passenger seat belt reminder is more important for a 5 star AMCRAP than a rear middle seat head rest which most cars bar even the FG in top of the range G6E Turbo does not get. Surely a anti whip lash headrest is more important. The Commodores have it even the new Budget Cruze has them. I really thing the 5 star rating is a scam when they put a seat belt reminder ahead of known safety features like anti whiplash head rests. The DSC should have beebn arounf drom the beginning in LPG guise considering the technology has been there for years and it has taken them to 2009 to implement something that has been in the Commodore since the VZ abeit in petrol. Still took them to long for Fraud to make it standard accross the lane. By the way I am using those words like FoulDunnycan and Fraud as a result of Omg wot using his words. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

  • Frosty

    And yes, I did just notice the spelling errors on a few words. Thats what happens when you watch the keyboard typing and not the screen. Pity there is no edit feature like that on LS1 dot com.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Ummmm yes, just like the front passenger seat belt reminder in Commodore? You never cease to amaze me with your warblings Holden luver!

  • omgwot

    Sorry for making your brain hurt Mr Frosty, next time I’ll refer to it as the Daewoo Veritas :)

  • Goodfa

    I cannot understand how anybody can buy a Camry.

    It looks like Holden has even more catching up to do now.
    The VF better come up with the goods because slowly but surely the message is getting out that the Falcon is the better car at the moment.

  • Limited Slip

    Frosty…..FG looks nothing like like BF .totally different side by side. Its way more modern and flowing design……makes VE look very old already. Eveyone knows the only reason Commode outsells it is because of the fleet deals Holden has. VE sells most to fleets as it basically a fleet vehicle,which is why they get away with crappy engines and transmissions as they are a “thrash and trash” fleet special. FG is miles ahead of VE in every area.

  • Limited Slip

    Please read……..Speaking to GoAuto at the Melbourne International Motor Show, Ford Australia president Marin Burela said the Geelong-made inline-six (I6) engine was secure for the medium-term, and that the outlook for the operation had been strengthened by approaches from manufacturers who wanted to use the engine.

    “We are getting all sorts of interest from different sectors on whether or not we would be prepared to sell them some engines, for different applications,” he said. “They want to know would we be willing to sell them some I6 engines.

    “That’s a different angle on the Geelong engine plant story.”

    Mr Burela would not say which companies were making the enquiries or what sort of vehicle they would be used in. “There are different groups around the world. I don’t want to talk volumes.”

    The Ford chief said negotiations were in the early stages, but there was strong interest – “it’s really encouraging”.

    He said that even without any export orders, the engine would “probably” be kept in service until 2015 or 2016, although a decision will be made earlier than that.

  • Will

    Just qualifying my earlier comment. There is still no diesel or diesel electric derivative. That is a little sad, but I have no doubt Ford Oz will view such drive-trains in the not too distant future.

  • Andrew M

    Will,
    Diesel Falcon was announced as arriving in 2010 2 years ago.

    Limeted slip,
    and in reference to the falcon wagon as also mentioned earlier, in that same conference (i think it was) MB says the falcon wagon is a solid seller hence it will certainly stay on.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    your kidding yourself lsd,

    ford better looking?search your mind for a good reason ve outsells fg(and lose the fleet line,its getting real old).motor,no.gearbox,no.fuel economy,no.interior finish,no.warrenty,no.distribution network,no.fleet sales,no.(and consider fleet sales are renters,govt and shire cars,taxi’s etc.alot of them are given the choice)suspension,no.resale,maybe,ease of entry,maybe.gm badge,yes.(and ford badge the same)and lastly looks,absolutely.its enough to keep a one eyed ford fan awake at night…

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    All they need now is an FG Falcon Sportwagon variant. But not too Sportwagonny, don’t want to alienate the fleet buyers like Holden have.

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

    Well done Ford. Some digs at Holden and Toyota. They’ve certainly done some amazing things with that engine.

    Again Holden – where is those DI engine of yours??

  • realcars

    Falcon,The Great Australian Road Car.

  • Dan

    “Falcon,The Great Australian Road Car” – said Realcars, while puffing on his crack pipe.

    Then again, I’d take a falcoon over a dunnydore anyday. Out of two australians, one’s gotta be a winner, and one’s gonna be a loser.

  • Marcus

    Just for the dummys who think the VE only sells to fleet

    Falcon sell 85% to fleet
    Commodore sells 70% to fleet

    So who’s the fleet queen ?

  • Falcodore

    Dont know where you pulled that one from Marcus. Commodore only sold 13% to private buyers last year.

  • Andrew M

    Marcus,
    it must be embarrassing that the “queen” will bend the commy over any day

  • Andrew

    Now as I have been thinking about for a long time, a direct injected i6 variant combined with a slight decrease in displacement whilst maintaining torque and power levels or aiming to match the 95 octane figures for 91 octane. Also the standard issue of the 6 speed auto. Hopefully this slightly smaller engine could also be made to be a bit lighter. Of course the curtain airbags should be made standard across the range to match their Toyota and Holden rivals as well as simply implementing what is a relatively affordable option.

  • Frosty

    limited shift and you are saying the Falcon is not a fleet car? I can bet you anything most Falcon sales are fleet based infact most of the FG’s that i see are Taxi’s. And you are saying thats not fleet based selling?

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says: “Falcon,The Great Australian Road Car” – said Realcars, while puffing on his crack pipe.

    Then again, I’d take a falcoon over a dunnydore anyday. Out of two Australians, one’s gotta be a winner, and one’s gonna be a loser.

    Really Dan; So what your saying then is that the [supposedly] “Game Changing” Aurion doesn’t even rate when compared to the Falcon or Commodore despite its [supposedly] F1 inspired V6 is more advanced than the Ford and Holden.

    Its good to see your becoming a bit more sub-dued with your opinions.comments etc

  • Dan

    Wheelnut said – “So what your saying then is that the [supposedly] “Game Changing” Aurion doesn’t even rate when compared to the Falcon or Commodore despite its [supposedly] F1 inspired V6 is more advanced than the Ford and Holden. Its good to see your becoming a bit more sub-dued with your opinions.comments etc”

    No Wheelnut, sorry to disappont you but I am merely being factual as always. You see, I was referring to Australian made only cars. The Aurion is a global car. It is produced not only in Australia, but also in Thailand, Indonesia, China, Phillipines, Malaysia and Taiwan. So not really a true Australian car is it? Had it been in Australia only, of course it would kick their ass :) The engine you mentioned is the most powerful atmo engine out of the three. And you;re correct, it is more advanced out of the three. Happy to clear it up for you buddy :)

  • Simon

    The Aurion engine is a cracker for sure. I have no doubt that the I6 still has a lot more potential than what Ford have unleashed. It would have to be a marketing move. Aurion was a totally new model. FG Falcon is an evolution in progress. If Ford released a >220 KW I6 (which I’ve no doubt it could) it would lead to a lot of disgruntled AU,BA,BF owners as depriciation would be bigger than the ridiculous state it already is. They don’t want to upset the loyal blue army.
    As others have mentioned, imagine what Ford could do with a premium fuel, direct injected engine. Mate that with the ZF and see some smiles. Scary to think if they threw on a mill too!
    Holden has certainly dropped the ball, I’m starting to think they took it home too.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says: “….I am merely being factual as always.”

    ROTFLOL

  • Simon

    The Aurion engine is a cracker for sure.
    I have no doubt that the I6 still has a lot more potential than what Ford have unleashed. It would have to be a marketing move. Aurion was a totally new model. FG Falcon is an evolution in progress. If Ford released a >220 KW I6 (which I’ve no doubt it could) it would lead to a lot of disgruntled AU,BA,BF owners as depreciation would be bigger than the ridiculous state it already is. They don’t want to upset the loyal blue army.
    As others have mentioned, imagine what Ford could do with a premium fuel, direct injected engine. Mate that with the ZF and see some smiles. Scary to think if they threw on a mill too!
    Holden has certainly dropped the ball, I’m starting to think they took it home.

  • Richo

    Dan – most advanced engine does not necessarily equal the better engine. The Holden alloytec motor is technically a more advanced design then the Ford I6, but I don’t think anyone could realistically argue that the alloytec is a better engine.

  • Dan

    Why Wheelnut, you don’t believe me about where Aurion is assembled? What I’ve written above are the facts! I’m always about the facts :)

    Simon said – “it would lead to a lot of disgruntled AU,BA,BF owners as depriciation would be bigger than the ridiculous state it already is. They don’t want to upset the loyal blue army.”

    Geez, how much worse can it get? It’s ridiculous enough as it is. They lose 50% of value after just one year. Surely that’s not stopping them improving the I6…

  • Dan

    Richo, the only FAIL in terms of Aurion’s V6 is that it is coupled to a FWD drivetrain. Other than that, it is a better engine. Lesser capacity. Better economy. And of course more power. How else would you determine what’s a better engine. It ticks all the right boxes.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan I know the Aurion is also built overseas.. However; the ones we get in Australia are made here are they not? Therefore they are considered to be an Australian Made Car are they not?

    I mean in Germany they compare Audis VWs BMWs and Mercs with one another and consider them to be German cars even though they are made in other countries like the USA and South Africa

    BTW I also believe that the Aurion would have been much better if they made it RWD and kept the camry as the FWD alternative.

  • Dan

    Well, in that case then I will revise my comment above, and say that the Falcon is number one, followed by the Aurion, with the Dunnydoor coming last. Now only reason why I place Falcon as number one, is due to its RWD. As far as the rest is concerned in the car, I’d take the Aurion anyday. To those who don’t care which end is driven, take the Aurion :)

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    so dan if holden are wound up,and the whole component supply chain here dies,your next camry may well come from malaysia,taiwan,china etc.interesting thought…

  • Dan

    Hopefully it is just a thought. As much as I am not a fan of Holden, those thousands of people need to be employed. If it means some suckers have to buy the Dunnydoor, then so be it.

  • the fact

    whether you like it or not GM HOLDEN will shut the door sooner or later.so the australian government should not hand out any more money for them.this is a lesson for all other car markers in australia you cannot survive if you design your car only for fleet market and bad reputation on build quality .any wonder out of 10 commodores sold only 2 went to private buyers.sorry…if you not lift your game for so long then nobody to blame. camry is a global car so even local suppliers dried up toyota australia can still get the parts from around the globe including from thailand,japan,USA….ETC

  • Wheelnut

    Quote: “….any wonder out of 10 commodores sold only 2 went to private buyers.”

    Aaahh could the reason that 10 Commodores sold only 2 went to private buyers be because most companies that are big enough to run “fleets” make more money than most private individuals and therefore; have more money to spend on buying s new car than private individuals [more often].. or they have better easier access to finance as they have more valuable assets etc to use as collateral.

    I mean if more private individuals had enough money to buy a new car [as often as most companies do] that a few of them would most likely buy a commodore thereby taking it up to 4-5 if not more….

  • Dan

    You’re making no sense there Wheelnut. I rememeber a conversation we had before where it was considered that the bigger proportion of fleet purchases there is, the worse the car. Ie. no individual buyer would bother spending their hard earned on the car. Copmpanies don’t generally care, they update their fleet cars every 1-2 years, so they don’t care if they buy junk.

    Or have you changed your tune now, because your beloved Holden’s in the spotlight? :)

  • Acfsambo

    Back on topic.

    Ford have a great engine in a good car, and have made it better. The falcon should have, decades ago, been expoted to the US. The I6 is one of the best 6 cylinder engines ever (up there with the porsche’s flat 6). I really hope Ford engineer the engine with DI.

    For the DSC with E-gas, the reason why it wasn’t avaliable when the FG was released was because the DSC the petrol falcon uses doesn’t work with the E-gas set up, so ford spent time to make sure the DSC worked properly with teh E-gas set up.

  • BK

    My 2003 BA XR6 is currently using 12.1 litres per 100km and getting 645km on a full tank of 98RON. Not bad from a classic aussie car. I wonder how much lower my fuel consumption can get.

  • Al Juraj

    The Falcon range needs a 4WD platform, perhaps to be derived from the Territory, which would work best with the turbo I6. The blown 4-litre is power galore which can simply not be handled by two rear wheels only. It’s more like a big Evo or WRX. And upon the revival of the RTV ute, four driven wheels will certainly come of use.

    I also dare Ford to put the triangle “Australian Made” kangaroo on these cars and to say that sales will double is likely an understatement.

  • Tom

    Wheelnut, thats a fairly ridiculous argument. The fact that fleet sales have next to zero margin means that a typical car manufacturer needs to sell 3-4 fleet cars to make the same amount of profit as 1 private purchase. The only thing fleet sales are good for are market share and volume. Which are nice when you are operating at a profit. But when you haven’t posted a profit since 2004, chasing marketshare makes a lot less sense.3

    On topic, this is a great achievement by Ford. Thats the same figures as the Aurion which is smaller and has much less torque. It also shows how rubbish the Alloytec engine really is.

  • Glen

    AlJuraj, the Territory is based off the Falcon platform, plus Holden and HSV tried a performance AWD route with the Coupe4 and was a spectacular failure. Was heavier and had less power due to exhaust having to twist around extra drive shafts.

  • Frontman

    Ha Ha HA, The Fact you made a funny! Of the threee current manufacutrers in Australia, Ford has the LOWEST Fleet volume and the least amount of Govco handouts. So with your argument in mind thenboth GM-H and Toyota should shut shop and move on??

  • Falcodore

    Dan, when you say you place Falcon 1st, V6 Camry 2nd, Commodore 3rd, is that a fact or an opinion? :)

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    in your compliments for the Aurion V6 you mentioned the Aurions V6 to have better economy…..

    Did you read the article or not???
    Improvements now mean the previous irrelevant .2L has been shaved off the falcon, and beyond that in real world reviews the falcon (pre this update) had already been placed as more economical than the Aurion and beyond that its more economical than the cylinder deactivationg Accord.

    All the Aurion has is a higher displayed “power” figure.

    The aurion gets smashed for ease of driving characteristics coming from the falcons massive toque base that arrives not far after idle

    To say the only good drive line compliment for a falcon is its RWD origin is a laugh

    The falcon 6SP also betters the Aurion

  • Falcodore

    Couldn’t have said it better myself AM.

  • ZANDIT

    Dan, sorry to burst your bubble, but technically you are wrong!
    The Aurion is built here in Australia ONLY!
    Its a V6 Camry elsewhere

  • Dan

    Falcodore said – “Dan, when you say you place Falcon 1st, V6 Camry 2nd, Commodore 3rd, is that a fact or an opinion? :)

    I said what? I never said that. Read my post again. And also, last time I checked, the Camry doesn’t even come with a V6 here anymore either….

    Andrew M, I stand corrected to a point. Both the Falcon and the Aurion have a fuel consumption of 9.9L. Neither one is better in that regard then. And agreed that the Falcon drives better than the Aurion, it’s RWD after all, you’re simply repeating what I said above champ :)

    ZANDIT, so becasue the car has a different model badge on it, automatically makes it different? How so? You’re picking at straws mate :)

  • Zorro

    Dan you could also say you’re picking at straws mate :-)

    With the number of ex rental Aurions on the market their resale is appalling also.

    No matter what your bias, preference, or vested interest the facts are these; that Ford Australia have done a brilliant job with the FG Falcon, and continue to improve it. It is unanimously and undeniably the best Australian made car ever, and that includes cars made here and sold elsewhere with fifferent badges…

    Cheers

  • Zorro

    oooops, spell check.. fifferent should be different!

    Cheers

  • Dan

    No doubt, most of the cars in this category have an appaling resale. It’s become a nature of this segment I guess. Hence one of the reasons why I’d never buy a brand new one from this segment. From what I can see Aurion is doing a bit better in resale though, probably becasue they don’t get as many fleet sales.

    And no doubt Ford has done some brilliant work with the FG. Much bigger improvement from the previous falcon models, going back from XD or even earlier. All manufacturers improve their work over time, they have to. Can’t just stay still while competition overtakes you. Yes FG is an improvement over previous models. But did they have a choice not to improve? I think not!

  • j

    I would have bought Falcon FG, if it were as reliable as Camry ….

  • J

    ^^ would be a bad buy.
    It’s a good thing that the Falcon reliability has always been, and always will be better than a Camry!

  • Falcodore

    Dan says, April 2nd @ 10:52pm”I say Falcon is number one, followed by Aurion with the coming dunnydore last”

    And if you were all about the facts Dan, you should know the Aurion is just a V6 Camry with different front and rear styling treatment. Its only called Aurion in australia, the rest of the world its a V6 Camry, hence why i called it as such.

    Stop trying to pass off your OPINION as fact as you look like a goose ;)

  • Luke

    for the record the new Falcon with ZF achieves fuel efficiency of 13.8L in urban areas and a score of 7.6L in Extra Urban areas.

    Whilst this is a good figure for a vehicle of this size and displacement, the camry may outperform the falcon in terms of fuel efficiency within the urban areas.

  • Dan

    Are we talking about AUSTRALIAN large cars, or are we talking about global cars here Falcodre? IN Australia, the country of relevance here, the Aurion is different to the Camry. THey look different. Their interior is differnt. THe engines are differnt. Only reason why the Aurion is sold as a Camry in THailand or wherever is becasue they don’t have our model Camry. And umm, that’s a fact, not an opinion ya goose!

  • AndrewM

    While the Camry might have a better urban fuel figure, try that with 5 people in the Falcon, and 5 in the Camry, then you will see fuel economy in favour of the torquier Falcon, which won’t really feel the load, whereas a lower torque/power engine will feel the load and require more revs and more throttle to keep up.

    You can notice the difference more if towing too.

  • Dan

    FWD isn’t good for towing. The 4 cylinder engine doesn’t help it either haha. I think since Camry isn’t a V6 anymore, it shouldn’t even be compared to a Falcon Andrew.

  • Falcodore

    You still havent answered my question Dan, when you say you rate Falcon:1, Aurion:2, Commodore:3 Is that a fact or an opinion?

  • AndrewM

    Camry and V6 Camry (Aurion) share identical sheetmetal, floorpan, suspension geometry,wheelbase and track, the only diff is larger brakes, engine/trans ,plastic bumpers/lights and interior.
    Go and have a look at them being made at Altona, the body paint robots are programmed exactly the same for Camry and Aurion.
    Aurion is a local adaptation of a Global Camry to try and crack in to the large RWD Falcon V Commodore war (with a med-large FWD???).
    In other countries, Camry is still sold with a 4 or 6.

  • Dan

    Falcodore. You can answer that for yourself can’t you? IT’s plain obvious. When someone asks you, what car do you think is better, or how would you rate these cars. What do you call your answer? Think hard mate! :)

  • Bret

    Luke,
    Figures for Camry are:
    Urban: 13.8, Extra Urban: 7.6, Comb: 9.9

    So it looks as though it’s pretty lineball there.

  • ben

    Falcodore Says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
    Does that mean they’ve got the new gas injection system cause i didnt think DSC worked with the mixer type system?

    If they get an export program up and running for this engine they could then justify giving it DI and making it EURO V compliant. Imagine the economy and power it would have. Economy of a corolla with the power of a V8… Awesome! :)

    I always thought that the inline 6 came out with direct injection? If im wrong please tell me so, but i swear it said the 4ltr inline 6 has direct injection

  • Falcodore

    So please stop saying you’re “all about the facts” when its plainly clear its just your opinion.

    Dont bother replying Dan cause i gotta go unfortunately. Things to do, places to go, people to see.

    Cheerio :)

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    Its not the RWD factor that makes the falcon easier to drive, its the fact that you dont have to ring its neck to get it moving.

    For the record, the AndrewM with out the space before the “M” isnt me
    But in saying that, the other guy with a great name had it right anyway. the Aurion is nothing else but an attempt to crack the large car scene. At least it makes a better effort than the Avalon did

  • Dan

    Please don’t quote my comments out of context Falcodore! I was refering to my post about where these cars are assembled!

  • Dan

    Andrew M – “Its not the RWD factor that makes the falcon easier to drive, its the fact that you dont have to ring its neck to get it moving.”

    Yes Captain Obvious. 4 cylinder versus larger 6 cylinder makes a lot of difference in towing :)

    By the RWD, helps towing heaps also :)

    And yes, the Avalon was a joke haha.

  • Bavarian Missile

    arrrrrrrrrrrgh,2 Andrew EEMs……….confusing :|

  • ben

    Use bitch way to much aye, n use dont no much about the falcon, cause it is direct injected inline 6, its the boss motor that isnt. Try get it right fellas, do ur homework b4 u start talkin ok? N can the new falcon get any better? God only knows with the inline 6, it can with the V8 tho, which is being fixed for next year, yeh baby!!!!!

  • Andrew M

    Dan, we are talking about the Aurion, not the camry.

    The Aurion is 6cyl

    Oh and I wasnt talking about towing, but if you want to go there, the I6 torque will spank the V6 Aurion even before you put the cherry on top which is the RWD element

  • Andrew M

    Sorry Ben,
    the falcon isnt DI.

  • AndrewM

    Just for the record:

    Towing capacity (Body and driveline max recommended limits).

    Falcon: 2300kg- Largish boat or Caravan
    Commodore: 2100kg- not so largish boat or caravan

    Aurion:1600kg- small-med boat/ caravan
    Camry: 1200kg??- 6×4 box trailer with dirt

  • Simon

    Ok so I agree with what seems to be the common consensus.
    Dan is a knob.
    But to his defense, the FG matches the Aurion’s fuel efficiency ONLY with the ZF gearbox.
    This is not the standard auto.
    I hope Ford can change this, then the FG would be so far ahead in this segment that you would be a fool to buy anything else. Sadly this is extremely unlikely given the cost.

  • ben

    Andrew M, im sorry, but ur wrong. Go do a build n price on the falcon at ford.com.au n ull see that the falcon spec engine is DI-VCT. Check it out if u dnt believe me

  • Dan

    Ah sorry Andrew. Some people are talking about Camrys, some Aurions, it’s all getting confusing. See, problem here is, can’t really compare them on equal footing becasue there is no RWD Aurion. Havng it FWD, the weight of the load puts pressure on the rear wheels, and the drive wheels are lifted up a little, which means in towing situations, the Aurion is disadvanaged as it won;t put down its power to the ground as easily as Falcon would with the pressure placed on the drive wheels. And that goes for all FWD cars in towing situations.

  • AndrewM

    Sequential multipoint injection- yes, but Falcon has never had DI, neither has it’s competitors.
    Perhaps soon.

    PS: G’day Andrew M, long time no see :)
    Cheers.

  • ben

    Im not tryin to start an arguement, but ive followed this car since the 1st spy vid came out way back at the end of 07 i think it was. So I no a lil bit about these cars

  • Dan

    Simon said – “Dan is a knob.”

    Ah, me personal insults… A forum weapon to use when there’s nothing intelligent in your head to reply with. Let me guess, you’re an old Dunnydoor driver on Centrelink, aren’t you?

  • ben

    So ur tellin me that ford aus dnt no there own engine n have put up false info of there own engine?

  • AndrewM

    Ben, FYI: DI VCT refers to DUAL INDEPENDANT variable camshaft timing, meaning, inlet and exhaust cams can be advanced/retarded independendantly.
    Cheers dude.

  • Tim

    Andrew, thats what Dan said regarding RWD (that its better than FWD for towing) and he never compared any car to the Camry’s towing ability.

    Learn to read.

  • ben

    Ohhh omg i feel like a real dickhead nw lol, thanks for clearin that up, i remember nw lol

  • AndrewM

    Not only is RWD better than FWD for towing on the highway, but also better at the boat ramp when you have 2 tonnes pushing on the rear drive wheels to get traction vs 2 tonnes pushing the Front drive wheels off the ground.

    You will also find a difference between different rwd cars too, I used to tow my 2000kg boat behind my AU2 falcon company car and it would not sway until 110km/h, then they changed to a VZ wagon which would sway the same boat at 85km/h.

  • Dan

    LOL Tim. Some people here just love to have an argument with me, for the sake of having an argument :)

    Even in the very beginning I said I’d take the Falcon over the Aurion. Yet people somehow believe otherwise haha…

  • Dan

    Haha, boat ramps are classic! I once saw some dufus try to launch a boat with their magna. Poor thing just wouldn’t grip enough on the ramp becasue of all the weight being on the rear wheels, and subsequently got his rear end of the car a little bit wet haha.

  • J

    LOL Tim, some people on here just love to post under various names to agree with themselves just because no-one else will.

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    if the aurion was on a RWD base, the falcon would still be a better tower because of the much bigger amount of torque on tap, plus its reached a lot lower in the revs.

    I totally agree that RWD is better for towing, One of my trailers hardly ever comes off of my car so its fair to say I know my fair share when it comes to that subject.

    Tim,
    Totally lost me Bud, dont know what you are trying to say I did or didnt say.
    For the record though, Dan was the first to reference the Camry, not sure what you are getting at.

    Either understand the conversation or dont Butt in in future

  • Dan

    Andrew M said – “For the record though, Dan was the first to reference the Camry, not sure what you are getting at. Either understand the conversation or dont Butt in in future”

    Ummm, was like the tenth to mention Camry, in response to someone twisitng my comment! Andrew, understand the converation :)

  • AndrewM

    Tim and Dan etc, I’m not disagreeing, just reinforcing what I have observed ok, relax guys, I’m not out to start a fight or anything.
    :)

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    further to the record, i was referencing the conversation between ourselves, not what others were/are saying

    AndrewM (with out the space)
    Long time no see??????
    are you playing mind games???
    from memory you are the first person besides myself to post with that name.
    Who’s behind the mask???

  • AndrewM

    Andrew M, I hope we’re not confusing these guys with our user names :)

    I will change my name to just Andrew if it makes it easier…

    PS: Dan, I once saw a fat guy bouncing up and down on the boot of an old magna that had severe wheel spin (front wheels)trying to get a small fibreglass half cabin up the ramp. Was a big laugh to all.

    Personally I’ve never had anything more than a chirp from the various rwd cars pulling different size boats up the ramp (even ones with sand on them).

  • AndrewM

    Andrew M, we had a good convo early last year regarding -BF2 vs VE or something like that.
    ciao.

  • Andrew M

    Yes, i think the similar name tags have caught out Dan and Timmy.

    I got a mental picture of the 2 of them spinning around trying to catch their tails not knowing whats what

    Sorry to confuse you guys, it now makes sense that you were saying I said stuff that I didnt ha ha ha ha

  • adam (aka mada)

    Dan,

    Toyota Aurions dynamic abilities isn’t all due to being FWD, Toyota simply can’t tune a vehicle for class leading handling dynamics.
    Ford can tune a FWD mondeo to handle most like a RWD vehicle, class leading handling dynamics with focus, fiesta and territory also.
    I drive all makes and models weekly, the sterring weight and feel with aurion is terrible, drive a VE or better again FG back to back with aurion and the difference is very clear indeed.

    Toyota also can’t tune thier electronic nanies ( electronic stability programs etc) to cut in at appropriate
    situations.

  • Dan

    Adam, from my experience with driving rental VE’s their handling characteristics are shocking. It may be RWD, but it lacks the steering feel just like Aurion.

  • adam (aka mada)

    Dan,

    sorry i disagree, unless you experienced bad front steering alignment etc.

    Both VE and FG has some of the sharpest, most accurate steering and go against many other prestige RWD platforms worldwide. FG is slightly better than VE.

    aurion has torque steer, particuarly when you accelerate while turning a tight corner, the general ride quality is rubbery/notchy, even while on perfectly smooth roads!
    Throw an aurion around briskly and compare the handling traits to an FG or VE.

    Drive them reguarly, back to back and you will feel the difference.

  • Dan

    Adam said – “Both VE and FG has some of the sharpest, most accurate steering and go against many other prestige RWD platforms worldwide. FG is slightly better than VE.”

    Adam, please. They are not bad by any means, but they are not that good either. Most of the RWD cars in the prestige segment handle a lot better.

    Yes, they were rental VEs haha, since you can never be gentle with a rental, no doubt they were stuffed. One did have only 50 kays on the clcok though and its handling wasn’t anything to write home about. The FG has by far the best steering out of the three though.

    And yes, torque steer, and all the rest of the negativity with FWD, is the reason why I choose not to own a FWD car :)

  • realcars

    Dan the tool.LOL

  • Joober@Work

    Hmm never been in a base model Aurion, then again, probably thanks to the sports suspension of the Zr6, ride quality is what I expect from this car…

  • Dan

    Realcars said – “Dan the tool.LOL”

    You definately are a man of a few words. If those words were even remotely half-intelligent, it would have been ok. But you are just an obsolute moron Relacars.LOL

  • realcars

    Sums u up Dan and not the sharpest one in the shed either.LOL.

    Falcon,The Great Australian Road Car.

  • Dan

    Either? No no. Speak for yourself. It’s great you admitted that you aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed though. Man, crack must be hell cheap these days…

  • adam (aka mada)

    Dan,

    As i have already said, FWD is not the culprit, Toyota tuning of handling dynamics is.
    Drive any well sorted FWD platform and you will be surprised.
    you should already know the vehicles which handle well and which don’t.
    I can’t think of any current toyota product that is class leading for dynamic ability…

    Ford of Europe and Oz are now well known for setting/tuning well balanced FWD and RWD platforms.

    Ford the price of admission, i challenge you to find any RWD 5 seater passenger vehicles anywhere globally that can match an FG falcon, keep in mind the relative factors…
    Not just your opinion, many journos hold the same feeling that falcon and commodore offer the best package vers price you will find anywhere…

  • adam (aka mada)

    A Crysler 300c is even outhandles by the VE and FG, heck a base V6 300c is piss weak for performance/NVH and fuel consumption compared to the local vehicles, while build quality is worse.
    300c is style based only.

  • the fact

    dynamic ability from one of the oldest engine on earth and noisy drivetrain?just over price.you get what you pay for.

  • Dan

    Fair enoguh about the toyota’s FWD failures Adam. I have driven some relatively well handling FWD cars in the past, but I am biased towards RWD, so I didn’t like it either. You will never get RWD handling with a FWD car, no matter how much you try. Physically impossible. But you can reduce understeer and torque steer so that’s always welcome addition to any FWD car.

    I suppose when I refer to FWD being the culrpit in Aurion’s case, I mean it on that basis. The RWD cars Toyota has made in the past were actually pretty good. The problem I have with Toyota at present is that they don’t make any RWD cars anymore. Toyota being Toyota, won;t care about making dynamically superior Yaris, or a Corolla, or Camry. I guess they had a chance to improve the Aurion when they could, but didn’t.

    In regards to Falcons, I suppose finding better handling cars the same size wouldn’t be as easy. What I said before, was more general. Most manufacturers build cars that size with luxury in mind, so wouldn’t be too many performnace oriented vehicles, other than M5, S8 etc. neither of which I have driven, so can’t comment on which one’s better. Of course I’d place a bet on ze Germans if I had to. Globally, aussie cars are in their own little world I think.

  • realcars

    U are in your own little world Dan not Aussie cars.LOL.

  • the fact

    for most people, build quality,reliability and refinements are much more important than how the car can turn into corner.at least 300c doesn’t look and feel like a fleet car.

  • Tom

    ^^ No, it just marks you out as a w*nker instead. And if you read comsumer reports, you’ll notice the words Chrysler, reliability and build quality only exist in the same sentence when the words ‘lack of’ are included as well.

  • the fact

    well,i am not talking about 300c quality or reliability.we all knew american cars are not up to japanese quality standard and that including our 2 dinosaurs american owned companies.

  • Dan

    Has mummy picked you up from school yet, Realcars?LOL

  • The Realist

    132 comments… :-D

  • Simon

    Dan Said:
    Ah, me personal insults… A forum weapon to use when there’s nothing intelligent in your head to reply with. Let me guess, you’re an old Dunnydoor driver on Centrelink, aren’t you?

    Oh the irony! Hello pot, this is kettle….

    Dan said:
    Havng it FWD, the weight of the load puts pressure on the rear wheels, and the drive wheels are lifted up a little

    You still didn’t tell me if they breathe oxygen on your planet. Obviously the physics are different in your universe. How does putting more weight in the car lift the front wheels? Perhaps you managed to put a couple of tonnes of lead in the boot behind the rear axle? Oh yes then of course the RWD cars will be superior, if they can move with all the weight while wheelstanding.
    Oh I do look forward to your replies. I’m always impressed by your duplicity and stupidity.

  • Andrew M

    Simon,
    I think you misunderstood Dans comment.

    putting weight on the back of a car will take weight off of the front wheels. We were talking about putting weight in the form of a trailer on the back

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    I was reading something on the Ford Forums about Toyota being investigated by the ATO here………..anyone else heard this ? No its not a late April fools day joke……..

  • Andrew M

    Again????

    didnt they learn from last time when they got caught with their pants down

  • Tim

    J, WTF are you talking about? I have been on this site for months and I wasn’t agreeing with anyone.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Maybe its the for the same thing Andrew……..

    quote “I think the correct term is “international price transference” and the ATO did investigate a while ago…it seemed to coincide with Toyota’s big profit jumps recently as prior to this they made very little profit compared to the volumes sold and especially compared to Ford and Holden.

    Toyota Oz buy parts from Toyota subsidiary companies at inflated prices and writes the purchases of as expenses. Export as many cars as possible at a loss (or minimal profit), therefore not paying any tax, and ship the profits offshore through the subsidiaries…

    Does make you think why Toyota are here when they could make the same car else where………

  • Andrew M

    Thats the exact same thing they got done for before.

    Is it the same case still going, or have they done it again

  • Dan

    Andrew M – “Simon, I think you misunderstood Dans comment.”

    LOL! He did, or he didn’t. Usual Suspects like Simon are simply there to argue for the sake of arguing. Either that or he’s a retard and doesn’t understand how towing affects a car. Either way, no point wasting time on him :)

    P.S. Whats with the Toyota hijack of this article Bavaria? I thought you said you won’t be doing that anymore?

  • Simon

    Andrew M – thanks, you are quite right.I didn’t read the preceding comments and displayed my ignorance.
    Dan I retract my comments relating to such, and apologise for them.
    I stand by the comments pertaining to your hypocrisy.

  • Dan

    Such as?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Andrew seems I wasnt the person who bought up Toyotas first here ………..it was simply just passing on info read on the Forums last night.Hardly Hijacking….I think we all know who again has ruined yet another thread cause he wanted to argue.

    Quote “Dan Says:
    April 3rd, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Fair enoguh about the toyota’s FWD failures Adam. I have driven some relatively well handling FWD cars in the past, but I am biased towards RWD, so I didn’t like it either. You will never get RWD handling with a FWD car, no matter how much you try. Physically impossible. But you can reduce understeer and torque steer so that’s always welcome addition to any FWD car.

    I suppose when I refer to FWD being the culrpit in Aurion’s case, I mean it on that basis. The RWD cars Toyota has made in the past were actually pretty good. The problem I have with Toyota at present is that they don’t make any RWD cars anymore. Toyota being Toyota, won;t care about making dynamically superior Yaris, or a Corolla, or Camry. I guess they had a chance to improve the Aurion when they could, but didn’t.

  • Simon

    Dan are you really so dull?
    Dan Said:
    Ah, me personal insults… A forum weapon to use when there’s nothing intelligent in your head to reply with. Let me guess, you’re an old Dunnydoor driver on Centrelink, aren’t you?

    So there is nothing that would fit the description of “personal insults” in your comment? Seriously, hypocrite.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says: “You’re making no sense there Wheelnut. I rememeber a conversation we had before where it was considered that the bigger proportion of fleet purchases there is, the worse the car….”

    Fist of all since when do you have [civilised] discussions with anyone on this site..? they’re more like; and often end up as arguements as you are unable to think outside the square let alone accept or understand other peoples opinions.

    Secondly – How is a cars quality dependent on how popular it is with fleet buyers. Because I don’t think that a company would buy a whole fleet of Commodores Falcons or even Corollas if they knew that the cars would spend the majoritty of their time at the off th road being fixed now would they? The cars are used to help the company make money not waste it

    Not only that but because “the car” is so popular with companies and other professionals/tradesmen that sometimes they will often choose to buy the company car when it becomes available; if not buy a similar car brand new – if they have the funds to do so of course.

    it’salso one of the reasons why some young drivers prefer a particular make of car – that’s the car dad drove [for work] and it was a good reliable practical car.. However; I admit that kind of loyalty isn’t as strong as it used to be

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says: April 3rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
    Are we talking about AUSTRALIAN large cars, or are we talking about global cars here Falcodre?

    No Dan this article is about an Australian Built Car – The Falcon.. Therefore its why people are also referring to and including the Commodore and the Aurion as they are also Australian Built cars..
    It’s fairly reasonable understandable and logivcal if/when YOU think about it

  • Wheelnut

    Falcodore – nice job on showing up Dan and how he [often] contradicts himself – with him saying that he is “always about the facts” [ha ha]….

  • Dan

    Wheelnut, nice job taking stuff out of context, and just like Simon, not reading what people say properly, and just jumping on the bandwagon conclusions. The facts comment was in relation to where the Aurion is built. Perhaps you should spend less time posting, more time shopping for glasses mate :)

    Wheelnut said – “Therefore its why people are also referring to and including the Commodore and the Aurion as they are also Australian Built cars..
    It’s fairly reasonable understandable and logivcal if/when YOU think about it”

    April 2nd has called mate. They want their argument back. Seriously do you even read to the very end before you start posting. That has been covered and sorted two days ago! Falcon and commodore are exclusively australian built. The Aurion isn’t. Seriously, get some glasses pops!

    ANd in regards to fleets comment of yours. It’s not about the cars breaking down and being off road. It’s about their general quality. Fleet companies won’t care about cheap rattly interior etc. They pay the lease. And return the car to auction at the end. You contradict yourself heaps Wheelnut! Back in the Yaris thread or Corolla thread, you said most are sold to fleets, and that is a bad thing, compared to Mazda 3 which doesn’t get many fleet sales. So which way is it then Wheelnut? What is your view? Or do you selectively change it to suit you. Typical of you Wheelnut!

    Out of interest bavaria, care to provide a link to where you have the ATO vs Toyota story? Interested to have a read…

    And hang on, weren’t you forbidden by your missus to even talk to me Wheelnut? THen why are you talking to me? Are you desperately trying to prove you aren’t under the thumb? Don’t worry, that’s already established mate :)

  • Wheelnut

    Whatever Dan – but howhas anybody taken your comments out of context? given that you said:

    Dan Says: April 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
    “Then again, I’d take a falcoon over a dunnydore anyday. Out of two australians, one’s gotta be a winner, and one’s gonna be a loser.”

    By leaving out the Aurion [ which is made by your beloved Toyota] it was understandable/reasonable for people; like me to ask you why you left out the Aurion – which I did

    Wheelnut Says: April 2nd, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    Really Dan; So what your saying then is that the [supposedly] “Game Changing” Aurion doesn’t even rate when compared to the Falcon or Commodore despite its [supposedly] F1 inspired V6 is more advanced than the Ford and Holden.

    You then came back saying that the reason you didn’t include the Aurion is because you don’t regard it to be an Australian car because its made in other countries around the world

    Then there was even more contradictions and back-pedalling by you; which Falcodore picke up on – particularly when you said you are always about the facts”

    Dan Says: April 3rd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
    Please don’t quote my comments out of context Falcodore!

    I was refering to my post about where these cars are assembled!

    So if you are talking about wher the cars are made why didn’t you include the Aurion?

    Doesn’t matter thing is you would have been better off by saying something like

    “that out of the 2 Australians I would put the Falcon 1st and the Commodore 2nd.. I didn’t include the Aurion as I don’t regard it to be an Australian car as its made in other countries around the world”

    That way you wouldn’t have left any doubt as to why you think like that However; you still would have looked like an idiot because the Falcon is made/assembled in Australia…. The Commodore is made/assembled in Australia and the Aurion is also made/assembled in Australia

    Sure its FWD whereas the Falcon and Commodore are RWD
    However Toyota likes to compare it to the Ford and Holden so why dont you

  • Zorro

    Dan – off topic here; you are by far the most prolific poster on this thread, just curious, do you have a job, and if so, what do you do?

  • realcars

    Dan the keyboard warrior.LOL.

  • realcars

    He is an Accountant that is on a six figure salary traveling the world for work and drives a late model Lexus supposedly.LOL

    Looks like there is hope for the rest of us.LOL

    GOING FORD IS THE GOING THING………..

  • Wheelnut

    Zorro: Dan is supposedly an Accountant in his late 20s. He supposedly earns a 6 figure salary. He supposedly doesn’t have an opinion but he is supposedly full of “Facts”.

  • Falcodore

    Dan, you say the aurion isnt exclusively built in australia. So where else is it built and badged as an aurion?

  • Wheelnut

    He travels the world for work does he…? I thought that Dan was just looking for someone that acually agrees with hinm and has the same [distorted] view of the world as he does..

    Which I guess would be hard. because if he actually did find someone; that person would also have to believe that whatever Dan says is right as he is always about the facts

  • Dan

    WHeelnut, that’s exactly what I said! Glasses mate, glasses! You should get some! Here’s my post from two days ago:

    Dan Says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 pm
    No Wheelnut, sorry to disappont you but I am merely being factual as always. You see, I was referring to Australian made only cars. The Aurion is a global car. It is produced not only in Australia, but also in Thailand, Indonesia, China, Phillipines, Malaysia and Taiwan. So not really a true Australian car is it? Had it been in Australia only, of course it would kick their ass :) The engine you mentioned is the most powerful atmo engine out of the three. And you;re correct, it is more advanced out of the three. Happy to clear it up for you buddy :)

    Step away from the keyboard pops, you’re making yourself look even more stupid! If you got Alzheimers (it appears so), then I’m sorry.

    Falcodore, perhaps you also need glasses. Please refer to my post on April 2nd 2009 at 10:08pm…

    Seriously, half the arguments here are as a result of you people unable to read! WHat’s so difficult!?!?

  • Wheelnut

    Yes I know that Dan

    But that doesn’t change the fact that the Aurion is also built in Australia therefore; it can be; and is referred to as an Australian made car.

    As Falcodore says show us where else in the world the Aurion is built and sold as an Aurion – I have been on a number of other international Toyota websites and the only V6 cars I could find; which looked awful…. I mean awfully similar to the Aurion were called Camrys.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    FYI ,how is this NOT an Australian Car ????

    Quote “”Toyota, discovering that the Australian public wanted something that was Australian and modern, began working on the Aurion in 2003. The development kick-started when Nick Hogios left Ford Australia and joined Toyota, working in Japan on the design of the Aurion. Hogios became the chief designer of the car. He previously worked on designing the XR performance models of the Ford BA Falcon, and claims that the Aurion follows the traits of current Australian styling, with a tendency to look towards European designs for inspiration. The Aurion is marketed as a new model designed for Australians.
    The Aurion shares its doors, side windows and roof with the seventh generation Toyota Camry.”"

    Now can we get back on topic ? Me however have better things to do than spend a day here arguing about nothing,Im going out to enjoy the day.

  • Zorro

    He sure sounds like a bean counter, argues like a bean counter, clutches at straws like a bean counter too

    Putting my Psychology Degree to use and judging only from his posts, and the fact he always has to have the last word, I would say he was picked on and bullied at school, his few friends were also from among the social outcasts, wears brown a lot, is either very small or very fat, and through the internet, and the fact a keyboard is no threat to him, has found his voice.

  • the fact

    toyota is outselling ford and holden combined almost every months.people decided with their wallet for quality products.jealousies create few loud hollow voices.for most people, build quality,reliability and refinements are much more important than how the car can turn into corner.

  • Dan

    Hahaha, you must be one crappy psychologist Zorro. Is someone even paying you for your services? You must make a lot of damage to needy people by the sounds of it, as you got none of those claims right. I was not bullied at school. Have heaps of friends. DOn;t have any brown clothes in my closet (what the hell is with that?), I’m neither small nor fat but reasonably tall. ANd if I met you in person, you’d get the same treatment from me as over here. YOu sure sound like a loser psychologist wannabe. Argue like a loser psychologist wannabe. ANd clutch at straws like a loser psychologist wannabe.LOL

    WHeelnut, you really seem to be arguing at blank space. If you again bother to read my posts, what I meant were cars made in terms of EXCLUSIVE australian build. THen I figured fine, I’ll chuck the Aurion in the mix also. And that was all before you even arrived here. So what the hell is it you want?? You are arguing about a reduntant argument which was resolved 2 days ago!! Wheelnut, you have some serious issues, and it seems you always have to have the last word! Bavaria, get the whip out, and get your man back in line will you? It appears he’s not listening to your commands like he should!

  • Falcodore

    Last word = zzz

    Sorry Dan, you didnt get the last word in….for once :) )

  • Zorro

    Dan

    I forgot to add, yet to lose your virginity due to the time spent in front of your keyboard!

    Can you show us the facts to back up your unsubstantiated claims that you have heaps of friends..? :-)

  • Dan

    LOL! Zorro, I’m married and I have a kid on the way. Your psychology degree is a FAIL!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Zorro “Putting my Psychology Degree to use and judging only from his posts, and the fact he always has to have the last word, I would say he was picked on and bullied at school, his few friends were also from among the social outcasts, wears brown a lot, is either very small or very fat, and through the internet, and the fact a keyboard is no threat to him, has found his voice.”"

    I couldnt agree more which is why I dont bother engaging him any more. Kind explains why hes on here from dawn to dusk too……….

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says: “….what I meant were cars made in terms of EXCLUSIVE australian build. Then I figured fine, I’ll chuck the Aurion in the mix also – and that was all before you even arrived here.”

    Dan if you remember it was I who origianlly brought up the “Australian Made” Aurion.

    Remember my respionse to your comment where you said that out of the Australian Cars you’d have the Falcon over the Commodore.. I said

    “So what your saying then is that the [supposedly] “Game Changing” Aurion doesn’t even rate when compared to the Falcon or Commodore despite its [supposedly] F1 inspired V6 is more advanced than the Ford and Holden.

    It just seemed a bit werd that you didn’t mention the Australina Made Aurion what with you being a Lex-ota fan and [know] all.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says : “Zorro.. I’m married and I have a kid on the way.”

    I didn’t think that was physically possible for men tobecome pregnant or give birth

  • Dan

    How old are you Wheelnut? Half your posts are so childish, if I didn’t know you were married to bavaria I’d think you are 10 years old…

    Speaking of which, judging by the comments here, must be some marriage haha

    P.S. Have you cracked the whip at Wheelnut yet Bavaria?? He’s still disobeying you!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Anyone read the latest sales figures for the month……..

    Toyota shares may still be on top but they are decreasing faster than Holden and Fords here in Australia,Aurion sales are down by half on last year .

    Quote “Toyota’s market share for the year now stands at 20.8 per cent, 2.1 per cent down on last year, while Holden has a 2009 share of 12.7 per cent, just 0.1 per cent down on 2008.

    March sales for Holden were down 18 per cent, which is slightly better than the market’s year-to-date 20.3 per cent fall below the same period last year.”"

    Then those are facts but Im sure some will argue with their opinions ;)

  • Wheelnut

    What are you going to call your kid then Dan? Let me guess ALEXUS

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Let me get this straight………..Wheelnut is a car detailer ,drives a Holden, a similar age to me and married to me too……….hahahaha all wrong !

    See thats what happens when people dont know the facts…….

    Can we stick to the facts and stop getting personal.

  • The Realist

    172 comments and counting… what’s the record on this site? :-D

  • realcars

    I am pretty sure that a Toyota thread would hold the record.

    What’s wrong with beige clothes?LOL

    Guessing has something to do with blending in or not standing out Zorro?

  • Wheelnut

    Realist – I believe the record for the number of blogs on CA is approximately 1000 or so – which was on an article about the BF Cobra.. and from memory not only were the majority of comments actually on topic; but there wasn’t any arguing or personal insults/attacks either..which proves it is possible

  • Wheelnut

    Realcars – can you be a little more specific because as I am sure you are aware; there are a number of threads that start of being about either an: Audi; Alfa Romeo; Bentley; Buick; BMW; Bugatti; Chevrolet; Chrysler; Citroen; Dodge; DeSoto; Ferrari; Fiat; Ford; FPV; Gumpert; Goggomobile; Jaguar; Konigsiegg; Hispano Suiza; Holden; HSV; Hyundai; Kia; Lamborghini; Lancia; Lotus; Maserati; Mazda; Mercedes-Benz; Mini; Mitsubishi; Nissan; Opel; Oldsmobile; Packard; Pagani; Porsche; Peugeot; Renault; Rolls Royce; Rover; Saab; Subaru; Studebaker; Tucker; Triumph; Volvo and Volkswagen

    But virtually all of them have been Hi-jacked so that we ended up talking/arguing about Toyota TRD or Lexus

  • http://FordImprovesFG David S.

    Comparing the FG to a 4 cylinder Camry is a load of Croc. The V6 Camry would still give the FG a fair run for its money, with as good as or better economy. By the way I am Falcon owner, have been for 20 years.

  • realcars

    Very true Wheelnut!

  • The Realist

    Wheelnut Says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
    “But virtually all of them have been Hi-jacked so that we ended up talking/arguing about Toyota TRD or Lexus”

    You and BM are two of the biggest culprits for the hijacking in the first place… ;-)

  • Tim

    The selected 4 on this site are such tossers lol. Unbelivable!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Nothing useful to say as usual Realist ;)

  • Wheelnut

    Why would I want to hijack a particular article that wasn’t about Toyota.. make it so that we end up talking/arguing about Toyotas when I personally don’t like Toyotas?

  • The Realist

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
    “Nothing useful to say as usual Realist ;)

    Just mimicking you dear BM. ;-)

    BTW, I was reading some of my old MBA notes last night – came across some very interesting articles about Australia’s manufacturing industry and how our productivity was the worst amongst OECD countries. And to top it off we were amongst the most expensive too.

    The article was from 2002 I believe, so perhaps we’ve improved in the past seven years… what are your thoughts?

  • The Realist

    Wheelnut Says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
    “Why would I want to hijack a particular article that wasn’t about Toyota.. make it so that we end up talking/arguing about Toyotas when I personally don’t like Toyotas?”

    You tell me Wheelnut – I could easily pull up examples of you and BM start to discuss Toyotas on threads devoted to other topics.

    I reckon you’d love to have a Corolla parked in your driveway, next to your VN Berlina with racing stripes.

  • Cameron

    Feeling a little inadequate The Realist?
    Certainly a long winded comment to veil “mine is bigger than yours” and has nothing but a vague tangental bearing on the subject.

  • Tom

    David S, the V6 Camry isn’t produced anymore. The Aurion has the same fuel efficiency as the FG Falcon now. The Falcon has about the same performance figures as the Aurion, and is a magnitude more dynamically able. The Falcon is bigger, roomier, has more towing capacity, more practical. The comparison to the 4 cylinder Camry is just to show how bad it is. Toyota’s ad ‘Camry – Every bit brilliant’ should actualy be ‘Camry – Every bit below-average’.

    Unless you own a current model FG, you owning a Falcon for the past 20 years means nothing, as you won’t be comparing apples to apples.

  • the fact

    please do not compare your fg oldest engine block on earth to high tech lexus engine in aurion.you are comparing lemon and apple.drive your bad quality lemon and do not attack other brand.falcon is finished according to last month sale result.under 2000 units for the whole month?

  • Bret

    The Fact,
    Is that the Falcon I6 is more efficient than the CamAurion V6. The Falcon delivers the same economy as the FWD CamAurion in a RWD package that does almost everything better than a CamAurion.

    BTW Falcon/Territory still outsells CamAurion combined. Perhaps Camry is finished? Ouch!

  • the fact

    remember more than 100,000 camry/aurion units exported last year.what about falcon?designed for fleet,driving fleet.the oldest platform on earth only for here.oh what a small world.

  • Bret

    So why are Toyota building cars in Australia then? It must be solely for the Govt handouts because they don’t sell SFA locally produced cars.

    The Falcon’s herratige hurts soo deep doesn’t it? And it’s still better than your supposedly “modern” CamAurions.

  • the fact

    Top 10 makes, March 2009:toyota fighting with two dinosaurs and still win.march 2009 sale result
    Rank Make Sales % Share
    1 Toyota 16,608 22%
    2 Holden 9188 12.1%
    3 Ford 7570 10%
    4 Mazda 6116 8.1%
    5 Hyundai 4907 6.5%
    6 Mitsubishi 4694 6.2%
    7 Nissan 4396 5.8%
    8 Subaru 3415 4.5%
    9 Honda 3349 4.4%
    10 Volkswagen 2522 3.3%

  • The Realist

    Cameron Says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
    “Feeling a little inadequate The Realist?”

    Not at all – just wondering why we should protect an industry that hasn’t made a profit in 5 years, is obviously unproductive, and is still requiring billions in tax payer assistance.

    Perhaps you could answer?

  • The Realist

    Bret Says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
    “So why are Toyota building cars in Australia then? It must be solely for the Govt handouts because they don’t sell SFA locally produced cars.”

    Kind of like Ford ay? ;-)

    “The Falcon’s herratige hurts soo deep doesn’t it? And it’s still better than your supposedly “modern” CamAurions.”

    The Falcon’s heritage seems to only be relevant to the fleet market. Woohoo.

  • Bret

    The Realist, Ford are the only local manufacturer NOT to did into the current Govt funding, and they have consistently outsold Toyota for locally produced vehicles by large margins.

    Ford produce and sell cars designed and made in Australia, Toyota produce cars that are also made in many cheaper plants worldwide – surely it’s only State & frd Govt handouts that keep them here?

  • the fact

    because all toyota models are global cars so they can make their models anywhere in the world unlike your falcon desinged for fleet and cannot built or sell around the world.
    you cannot survive without export.end of story.whether you like it or not 2 dinosaurs will shut the doors sooner or later.

  • the fact

    only these 2 dinosaurs sacked many workers over the last 3 years .toyota is actually the only car company hiring people.
    why?they built the best quality australian made cars and also a global car that can export anywhere in the world.in US alone they built over 400,000 camrys a year and all eventually sold out.

  • the fact

    YES…without exporting camrys toyota will have to shut the door too.you are dreaming if you think ford will survive by selling less than 2000 falcons a month.

  • Andrew M

    The fact,
    perhaps you should get some.

    Ford produces 3 models in australia which all tip in to take their total production levels well beyond 2000/month as you preach, and to add to that they are soon to add a 4th model to further reinforce the viability of their operations downunder.

    What staff is toyota hiring???
    are they hiring security staff to mind the premises whilst the plant is implimenting the planned shut downs????

    Globally toyota has announced massive employee cuts along with many recieving news of heavily reduced working days

  • the fact

    any person with bussiness mind knew you cannot just say i will built this small car in a year.it just will not happened like they said will close down that dinosaur engine plant and will import v6 engine,then a flick of eyes….no no we gonna keep this dinosaur engine.of course…how much handout…we don’t know.

  • the fact

    READ the fine print .i said the last 3 years…not the last 3 months.that was incredible these 2 dinosaurs saked workers even in boom time.if you can’t make money during boom time…what hope you got now.

  • Millatime

    Back on topic, and this thread IS about Australia’s own Falcon; it is simply the best 6 cylinder car on sale in this country at it’s price point, without exception, made here or anywhere else in the world, bar none, end of story.

    And that friends, is THE FACT’s as they relate to this story.

    Whether you like it or not is completely irrelevant, be proud of what Aussie engineering has produced.

    And they just made it better…

  • the fact

    wondering how you would judge a car as the best.based on build quality?servicing?reliability?resale value?image?pr?how much cars they can ship?anyway the people(private buyers only) will decide with their hard earned money which car is the best for them.

  • The Realist

    Bret Says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 11:41 am
    “Ford produce and sell cars designed and made in Australia, Toyota produce cars that are also made in many cheaper plants worldwide – surely it’s only State & frd Govt handouts that keep them here?”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s why the big T are here in Oz. At least they’ve got exports.

    Look at Ford however. I can’t fathom why a global company like Ford is still manufacturing in Oz. Forget the social implications for a moment and look at it from a fiscal viewpoint – why would you build a niche model vehicle (global context) in a country where labour costs are high and productivity is low? You can’t export, and the only reason you make money is protectionism and tax payer funded handouts. You could certainly argue Ford are manufacturing here because of government assistance too.

  • Millatime

    ^^^ as are GM through Holden, as are Toyota, so you guys complaining about Govt assistance to industry should write to your local MP’s.

    Back on topic, best in the business is the FG Falcon, drive one to see why….

  • adam (aka mada)

    The realist,

    List the profit figures for Toyota, Holden and Ford Oz for the past 10 years.

    You do understand that EVERY goverment globally assists local industry with cash incentives?

    You know how much Ford has spent on falcon/territory to keep them local vers profit margins, for Holden and for Toyota?

    I do, you?

    You sprout off as if it’s all black and white, it’s not.

  • adam (aka mada)

    The realist,

    What do you drive? and how long have you driven the make and model you drive?

    I drive different makes and models all the time, vehicles from a few months old up to 6 years old, i know what they are ALL like to drive, i don’t just sit behind a computer reading comparison tests, i see the real world fuel consumptions, i see what it takes to recondition every make and model, including so called ‘the most relaible vehicle, Toyota’s’

    Do yourself a favour and drive an aurion back to back with an FG and VE commodore, take clear notice of all the following…

    * panel gaps, interior material quality and fit and finish, take note of the air vent dials, the rigidness of climate control dials/knobs.
    * door sound quality when you close them
    * door sealing
    * colour coordination
    * ergonomics and eligibility of intrument panels
    * the boot hinges, boot finishing
    * interior functions and usability
    * seat shape and comfort, seating adjustability.
    Everything!

    Then when you drive them back to back, note fuel consumption, steering feel and accuracy ride quality over every surface, noise intrusion, engine, road and wind.
    Squeeks and rattles, visibility rear, side and front.

    Transmission smoothness, kick down and braking when slowing to a stop.

    You may just learn that FG falcon now matches the Aurion for…

    *noise suppression
    *interior material quality, fit and finish
    *Door sealing and closing sound quality
    * performance and fuel consumption
    * resale value
    * interior pakaging
    * value for money, features and options
    Now the FG has exceeded the aurion in the following aspects…

    * towing ability
    * Handling dynamics and crash safety.
    * boot hinge packaging
    * some interior fittings show higher material qualities, such as the rotary dials for the vents, along with dials and switches.
    Greater seat comfort and support
    * servicing costs
    * Driving visibility

    You mayb argue that 5-10 years down the track the aurion would be more relaible, i would now disagree with the latest models, ive seen plenty of 10-15 year Toyota with as many issues as 10-15 year old Holdens and Ford’s.

    I’m comparing the FG directly with the aurion here, the VE’s interior material quality doesn’t exceed the aurion, while noise and driveline NVH is worse than both aurion and FG.

    Some need to get of thier butts and actually experience these vehicle in the real world, i happen to work in the auto industry and thus do experience these cars for real!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    He says he drives an M5 Adam,not sure what model………

  • the fact

    just few interesting notes from drive team.The Falcon’s 4.0-litre in-line six-cylinder engine is older than grandpa’s axe.The updated six-cylinder still has that characteristic Falcon shudder as it cranks over .And there’s a moment of coarseness as it gets going.The Falcon’s back bench is reasonably comfortable except the seat back is quite short. The fixed foam headrests (only on the outer two positions) barely come up to the necks of adults, let alone offer any decent whiplash protection. The middle back-seat passenger gets no headrest at all and, further, it’s possible to hit your head on the lug on the parcel shelf that child restraints bolt on to.The side bolsters on the lower seat cushions of all the Falcons, we noted, felt flimsy and wasn’t as supportive as it could be.private buyers knows where their hardearned money have to spend on a new car and the sale result each month confirmed that.the people are smarter than you think.please stop giving lectures.

  • Millatime

    the fact

    So you don’t like the headrests and the rear seats – big deal, minor points, I’m 6 foot plus and was completely comfortable in the back seat, and it’s still the first locally made car to receive 5 star safety rating.

    Brilliant car and a credit to Aussie engineering, don’t listen to the miserable bitter and twisted knockers with their hidden adgendas, go and drive it!

  • The Realist

    adam (aka mada) Says:
    April 8th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
    “You sprout off as if it’s all black and white, it’s not.”

    It is black and white – both from an economic perspective and accounting perspective.

    adam (aka mada) Says:
    April 8th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
    “What do you drive? and how long have you driven the make and model you drive?”

    2005 E60 M5, driven since 2005.

    “Do yourself a favour and drive an aurion back to back with an FG and VE commodore, take clear notice of all the following…”

    I’ve driven all of these, mostly hire cars. Have driven Calais V and G6ET too.

    Thanks for the essay, I could pick it to bits, but can’t be bothered wasting time with deluded folk like you who probably thought the XF Falcon was world class.

    I’d never purchase a large sedan from Holden, Ford or Toyota. Plus in that price range there are too many better alternatives. Unless you tow or are obese there is no reason to buy a Falcon.

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    April 8th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
    “He says he drives an M5 Adam,not sure what model………”

    Thanks for the contribution BM – glad to see you got your grammer close to correct. How are the English courses going?

  • Andrew

    I would only trust about half of what Drive reviewers say, in the past they have been proven to be the opposite of impartial, anyhow is that the worst thing you could pick on- the back seat, how about the good points?
    - conveniently left out.
    Have you sat in a new Falcon or driven one for yourself, or do you just ride in beat up taxi’s with 700,000+km on the clock at 2am and think they come rough like that from the factory?

    Even if the engine design was 200 years old, but had great power/torque ,relatively clean and efficient for its intended application, who cares?
    Just because it’s not a V6, doesn’t mean it’s no good.
    Gimme an I6 over lower torque V6 anyday.

  • the fact

    never ever ride a taxi here.why should i?even so called third world countries have better taxis than here.

  • Millatime

    the fact

    I agree, every city needs Tuk Tuks, nothing better than arriving hot and sweaty covered in dust and grime and stinking of diesel fumes with throat burning and eyes watering. You are a very strange person…

  • the fact

    really?have you ever seen a taxi that cleaned,tidy,not smelly and you do not feel like you are in a wrecker yard because loose parts or rattle parts surrounding you?

  • the fact

    also most taxis here are not roadworthy at all.not strange to see worn tires,headlights,taillights not working…build quality of these taxis are horrible and you won’t want to risk your life by ride on them.

  • Millatime

    As I said, you are a very strange person…

  • the fact

    have you ever visit to japan?the taixs over there are so cleaned you will not find a dirt in the car and yes the drivers are so polite and dressed in nice suits.yes…compare with their standard we are no better than a third world country.

  • Millatime

    OK… that’s very nice.. Ummm, I have to go now, you have a nice day…

  • Andrew M

    As Millatime said, you are a very strange person

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Realist says “Thanks for the contribution BM – glad to see you got your grammer close to correct. How are the English courses going? ”

    hahaha Realist,English course going jolly well ,you need to correct your spelling of “grammar” though ……….

  • matt

    Awesome, now i can convince the GF to get a G6 :) , i got an aurion with 88 thousand kays, and an XR6T ute, BA11, with 118 thosand on it, they are both due for a services….Turbo falcon… has used no oil… the aurion? has chewed through nearly 2/3′s of it…. Maybe thats why taxi’s are falcon’s.. their engines last just that bit longer………… :) We got them both brand new, Ive had no warrenty issues with the falcon, but the aurion had to go back to get the gearbox software played with, and the A/C button broke once, and the oil issue…. im told.. Is operating as normal… yeah sure toyota…., Safe motoring guys! :)

  • sick of bogans

    all toyota knockers…please read it. More than 60,000 people in 27 countries have anonymously voScoring 86.53 out of 100 in a survey conducted by New York-based private research and consulting firm Reputation Institute, the Big T came out as number one amongst the world’s top 1,000 companies on perceptions of trust, esteem, admiration and good feeling.

    No other car company was listed in the top 30. Volvo came in at 32nd, Honda 39th, BMW 88th and Daimler 99th.

    Google came in behind Toyota which also led from Swedish furniture retailer IKEA and Italian chocolate-maker Ferrero.

    In a more local study, Australian Reader’s Digest has also reported that Toyota is the most trusted automotive brand in the country. Mercedes-Benz came in second, followed by BMW, Holden, Honda and Mazda. Mitsubishi came in last (no doubt affected by its Adelaide plant closure).
    they voted the Toyota as the world’s most respected company.please do not compare toyota’s vehicles with yours crap falcons and commos.they are in different class and league.dinosaurs are dinosaurs.JUST DO NOT COMPARE LEMONS AND AN APPLE. it.

  • Luke.

    Only people who drive Tototas would participate in a Reader Digest survey though…

  • Wheelnut

    Thats it surveys are by no means factual- sure a particular company or product may come out on top in a particular survey.. yet I doubt that the result will be the same if the same questions were asked to another group of respondents.,

    People may think that a particular company are better than another however when they are actually in the market to buy a car or whatever they may actually find that a company they didn’t even think of has a better more suitable product offers them a better deal or provides them with better service etc.
    Because a considerable number of respondents probably wouldn’t actually kknow anything about cars or the auto industry.

    As they say Theory and Practice are two different things..

    Then of course theres the manipulation and interpretation

  • Millatime

    The fact that Holden came in fourth shows how ridiculous this study and its conclusions are… so it’s exactly as luke says, only the saddest oldest cardigan wearing lawn bowls playing white goods owning feeble boring lonely Toyota owners fill in Readers Digest surveys!

  • sick of bogans

    well,hodlen and ford should be in last place in real world…because they are the most breakdown cars on our road.any way lawn bowls playing toyota owners are better than law breakng,speeding PETROL HEADS on our road.the people don’t buy your crap falcons or commodores brand new(only 20% are private buyers).they wait for 1 or 2 years then buy at auction in rock bottom price.please do not compare your crap fleet cars with toyota’ vehicles or personal insulting on toyota owners.your today brand new fleet cars still can’t match the bulid quality of a lexus LS400(1989).please find other lower standard cars and compare with your fleet cars.

  • Sick of Cardidan Wearing White Goods Driving Tools Driving 20 k’s Below the Limit & Clogging Up Our Roads

    Whats a hodlen? I don’t like hoodlums wearing hoodies either. Very anti-social.

  • Millatime

    sick of bogans

    The white goods manufacturer that you worship sells many many of its models to fleets. So get over it, get a life and move on, or if you’re that sick, please do us all a favour and hurry up and die as quietly as possible.

  • Wheelnut

    Thing is people on this site [mainly those who follow Toyota] only ever refer to surveys when the their beloved car company comes out on top..
    Yet when it shows them to be inferior’ they ignore it or say “who takes any notice of surveys anyway?”

    If you are going to refer to a particular source to support your arguement; when the results are positive – then you shouldn’t criticise people who refer to the same source when the results are negative

  • Wheelnut

    Sickk Of Bogans – You believe that Holdens and fords are “the most breakdown cars on our roads” [grammar].

    However; it’s all relative…. the reason why Holdens and Fords supposedly have the most breakdowns – more than any other car on our roads; could be because there are more Holdens and Fords on our roads because for over 20-30 years the top selling car in Australia has been the Falcon or Commodore.

    Bearing in mind that over the same period of time Toyota should have been able to overtake Holden and Ford as Australias Number 1 selling car given that their build quality and reliability is supposedly far superior to Holden and Ford.

    Therefore; the fact that its taken Toyota 50+ years to become Number 1 in Australia despite Holdena and Fords supposed inferiority etc shows that a number of Australians are happy with the Locals reliability durability versatility practicality and longevity.

    However over time it all depends on how well the car is looked after regardless of what make it is.. I mean there would be just as many old Japanese and European breakdown on the side of the raod mainly because they aren’t designed or built to handel Australias unique harsh environment as well as Ford or Holdens

    Yet on the odd occassions when Falcons and Commodores do breakdown they are much cheaper to repair and maintain becasue there are more of them around [still after some 20-30 years].. you don’t see that many 20-30 year old Toyota sround do you?

    Not only that but

  • BK

    hey wheelnut you dont know nothing about cars

  • Millatime

    BK – to not know nothing means he must know something. Hope this helps.

    Have a safe Easter

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    BK do you have a car ?From memory you use the public transport system dont you,plus with a comment like this one below from you my guess is you dont like cars let alone understand peoples buying choices. ;)

    BK Says:
    March 27th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    We all know what the car industry is all about. Its all about suckin people in to buying there cars. Whatever publicity stunt they do will fool us into buyin a car and will do it through what ever media is out there. Ford Holden etc etc will never be as good as the best cars in the world. If people want the best cars then why dont they just buy the best cars out there. Sorry Ford and holden you aint the best.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut Says: ” there are more of them around [still after some 20-30 years].. you don’t see that many 20-30 year old Toyota sround do you”

    No, thats a blunt lie, I see many more toyotas driving around from that age group!! Any Ford or Holden from that period that is still around has been rebuilt!!

  • Andrew M

    Ah, the good ole survey line again……

    Says it all really when it is described as a survey based on “PERCEPTIONS”.

    I just love how such a worthless bit of media is embraced by a selected group as if its a loved teddy bear

  • Escort_Ghia

    Tomas79 what you just said is a blunt lie too i still have the original engine and gearbox for the Escort sitting there but i wanted more power so i bought another one it 30 years old i could put it back in and it would run fine.

  • sick of bogans

    thanks…tomas79…please don’t worry about these petrol heads.they will lied and said everything just to win the battle.this country will be less bogan petrol heads in 5 years time because ford and holden(2 dinosaurs)will shut the doors forgood and no more that crap commos and falcons will be on our roads.so we will be safer.oh what a beautiful world.

  • sick of bogans

    before that i would like to suggest to the government that every cars on road should be inspected before issuing new rego….this is another way to clear the law breaking petrol heads because surely most cars made by these 2 dinosaurs would be in unroadworty conditions.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Arrrrrrrrrr ok ! Well I guess it is the school holidays after people :S The RICERS are out ! Do you guys get handed crystal balls to see into the future or do you just have them ;)

  • Wheelnut

    D!ngo… oops I mean Dan…. Oops I mean Tomas: There are still more All Oringinal Fords and Holdens from the 1960-70s around than Toyotas.

    Sure they mighn’t be out on the road as often as the old Toyotas.. Most of them aren’t Daily Drivers – They are lovingly maintained kept under wraps during the week and brought out on special occassions or just to go cruising.

    However; when you go to a car show you still see them with registration plates which means that [believe it or not Sick of Bogans] they are roadworthy
    Not only that but when you do see a GT-HO or a GTS go past they grab your attention more than a bland and boring 1970 Corolla Surfari

    Even if they are rebuilt its because they are worth a
    sh!tload more than a 1970 Silly-car and are muh more collectable..an investment
    As far as I am aware a 1970 Toyota is yet to be sold at [a Shannons] Auction for over $100K let alone double their original purchase price like a number of 100% Factory Original Holdens and Fords have

  • Falcodore

    Sorry SOB, you are wrong. With the experiences all my family and friends have had with holdens, fords and toyotas over the years the toyotas have proven to be no more reliable than fords or holdens.

    And when things have gone wrong the fords and holdens have been cheaper to repair as well as servicing costs. I guess the reason for this is the exhorbitant prices toyota charge for parts. Its blatant highway robbery.

    Ive even had people who have new toyotas say to me they will not take their car back to the dealer as they charge too much for servicing.

    Now there’s a survey for ya ;)

  • sick of bogans

    read it you bogans.this is choice magazine not commodore(wheels magazine).

    ignition image HONDA, MAZDA, SUBARU and TOYOTA stood out for good reliability among both the one-to-four and five-to-seven year old cars:

    * The HONDA Civic in both these age groups and the CR-V in the 1997–March 2000 age group.
    * The TOYOTA Starlet and Camry MCV20 V6 in the 1997–March 2000 age group and the Camry SXV10 4 cylinder and Corolla AE101–102 in the 1994–96 age group.
    * The MAZDA 626 four-cylinder in the July 1997–March 2000 age group and the 121 Sedan four-door in the 1994–96 age group.

    No model stood out with a particularly good reliability record in the older age group.

    At the other end of the scale, the locally made FORD Falcons and HOLDEN Commodores featured prominently among the least reliable cars in our survey, including:

    * Various six-cylinder FORD Falcons: the EL in the 1997–March 2000 age group, the EF in the 1994–96 age group and the EB and ED in the 1990–93 age group.
    * The HOLDEN Commodore VR V6 in the 1994–96 age group and the V6 VS and V6 VT in the 1997–March 2000 age group.
    * The HOLDEN Astra TS and the Vectra four-cylinder in the 1997–March 2000 age group.

    Apart from the large FORDs and HOLDENs, only one other car was significantly more likely to have broken down: the MITSUBISHI Magna TR-TS four-cylinder in the 1994–96 age group.

    Some other cars in the tables have reliability records that seem equally good to the models listed above. However, their results can’t be statistically proved to be significantly above or below average, because not enough people reported on them. your petrol heads will not agreed with any surveys until it suit you.the only problem is 2 dinosaurs are always in the bottom.they have so many chancesto lift the game but they didn’t and no one to blame.sale results each month showed the private buyers are not interested in that 2 dinosaurs any more.who want to own a fleet car anyway?

  • Escort_Ghia

    sick of bogans how did the 1990 toyota corolla 4AGE stand in that list becouse I have one sitting here that blows smoke like no tomorrow with just over 200,000ks, while my old man has a VS V6 commodore that has just hit the 500,000k mark and only done 2 waterpumps since new and still looks like it came from factory you know why becouse he looks after it.

    real shame two becouse these 4AGE engine really go.

  • sick of bogans

    ghia,sorry about your corolla. it just might be the previous owners not taking care of the car as your dad do.i am not saying all toyotas are good or all fodrs and holdens are bad.
    some good ,some bad ..right?but in overall percentage there no arguments that toyota’s vehicles are far way ahead of these 2 dinosaur’vehicles in built quality .only speeding petrol heads refused to accept it.

  • sick of bogans

    the less petrol heads on the road the safer for other road users.

  • Falcodore

    ^And only lawn bowls playing, hat wearing, ignorant, bad toyota drivers feel threatened when the aussie sixes are proven to be as good or better than their beloved toyotas.

  • Escort_Ghia

    what tick me off more about this corolla is that its going to cost over 1000 for a new 4AGE engine when it only cost me $2000 to build the engine for the Escort and i refuse to spend that much on a car i only paid just over $3000 for the Escort is worth spending money on the Corolla is not.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut Says:
    April 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
    “Sure they mighn’t be out on the road as often as the old Toyotas.. Most of them aren’t Daily Drivers – They are lovingly maintained kept under wraps during the week and brought out on special occassions or just to go cruising.”

    Exactly, while Old toyota’s soldier on as daily drives with minimum care!!!

    Falcadore, if they are so good, why doesn’t the rest of the world want them?!

  • sick of bogans

    you are so funny.lawn bowls palying is innocent act..unlike your law breaking petrol heads.you bogans might not like it but these dinosaur times are up and numbered.we feel only threatened your law breakers petrol heads tailgating us.don’t even dream to compare your crap fleet cars with toyotas.they are in different class and different league.just find lower standard cars and compare with your dinosaurs.by the way even Korean have far more good quality than your craps.so you bogans might not find one to compare.

  • Falcodore

    Ahh Thomas, the rest of the world does want them. every time i see an article about the Falcon on an overseas website, especially the US, they always ask why Ford US wont let them have them. They are screaming out for an affordable RWD family sedan in the ford stable.

    Case in point, the Pontiac G8. Just had its best sales month ever. In a segment that went down the G8 increased its market share, bucking the trend. And the people who buy them absolutely love em. They cant believe they get a car with BMW like dynamics and performance at such an affordable price.

  • Wheelnut

    Sick Of Bogans says: read it you bogans.this is choice magazine not commodore (wheels magazine).

    What and you think that Choice Magazine is somehow more independent than Motor or Wheels Magazine?… at least Wheels and Motor do standardised testing where the results can be compared overtime to other [previous model] cars.
    Whereas Choice tend to simply assess the car according to how good it looks in the carpark.

    Tomas says: Falcadore, if they are so good, why doesn’t the rest of the world want them?!

    There are alot of other cars around the world with buildquality etc thats just as good [bad] as the Falcon or Commodore but we don’t get them here in Australia …. so what’s your point?

    Fact is if you care to visit a number of international web sites [similar to Car Advice] you wil see that the Commoodre has received rave reviews and that there are a number of Car enthuusiasts who have commented on how much they like it and wish that it was available in their country.

    They love the design the performance/handling not to mention the value for money.

  • sick of bogans

    Aussie sixes?oldest engine block on earth?push rod engines?oudated drivetrain?years after years of lemons?dumping ground for unwanted rubbish from U.S.A?holden also make it better… now dumping ground for korean too.

  • Falcodore

    SOB, dont you know the corolla and camry are the biggest fleet sellers? Guess that makes the m the crappiest cars then according to your logic.

    At least (from what i see every day) the so called bogan ford and holden drivers know the road rules, unlike the toyota drivers who seem to have absolutely no idea what they’re doing and dont look in the rearview mirror to see all the accidents they cause.

  • Escort_Ghia

    sick of bogans whats with calling petrol heads law breaker’s most hoons that drive illeage and unrouadworth car drive the likes of suped up Skylines or WRX’s or VL turbos with nissan powered engineor stock as a rock VN or VS commodores.

    there own thing that is a must when i buy a car i like to enjoy the drive to were i wanna go and that a problem with toyota these days there the most boring car on the market.

    the old man call’s them the vanilla of the car world.

  • Falcodore

    Yeah SOB, and this “ancient” engine has more torque and fuel economy equal to the modern, “Technically advanced” toyota engine. Makes toyota look like the crap it is!

  • Wheelnut

    SOB – has it ever crossed your minf that the reason shte so called petrol-heads mighn’t be petrol heads but just regular motorists.. and the reason they are tailfating you is that you are travelling at a speed below the speed limit – because you are unaware of what the speed limit is etc.. therefore; becoming an obstruction to the traffic flow… which is just as dangerous as travelling over the speed limit.

    Drivers that are inattentive; lack confidence; are timid uncertain; or easily intimidated etc are just as dangerous as drivers who are aggressive or over confident.. they can and do cause just as many accidents

    Back in the 30-60s the police/highway patrol [on motorbikes] used to pull up along side motorists who were causing such an obstruction and actually instruct them to speed up.

  • sick of bogans

    over 400,000 toyota camrys built and sold in U.S.A every year.that is only one model for one country.the smart people knew what they are buying.

  • Wheelnut

    Its not the make of car that makes a driver become a hoon and do burnouts etc it sthte mentality of the driver himself.

    I mena you wait a Hoon will get caught aan dhave his car taken off him for doing Burnouts in his VL Commodore.. he will then find a Skyline of a Celica etc and continue to do nurnouts.

    Hoons don’t partiuclarly care if their car gets seized or written off – proven by the fact that they would put their car through the torture of doing a burnout..
    Not to mention that most of the cars you see on the news on a story regarding hoons wouldn’t be worth any more than $10k

    Hoons don’t care what make/type of car they’re in so long as they get their fix.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut, Falcadore, money talks and b*llsh*t Walks!!
    There might be quite a few people around the world that might write up a rave article about cars they have a curious interest in!! And every village has it’s idiot!! But when it comes down to actually putting down money for that car, that’s a different story!!!
    Even though apparently “Holden means a great deal to Australia”, and yet they offer the G8 for a much better price in the U.S customer, then the Aussie taxpayer who kept the company alive. And yet those G8’s still don’t sell!! Nobody wants them!! And this leads holden into making a multi million dollar loss, just because they can’t make a truly world class car, that people outside of boganville would be interested in!! Same goes for the falcon!! Don’t you think Ford Australia would have released it elsewhere if there was a market for it?!!

  • Wheelnut

    Tomas – There are alot of other cars around the world with build quality etc thats just as good [bad] as the Falcon or Commodore that we would love to be able to be Available in Australia but we don’t get them…. so what’s your point?

    BTW didn’t you read that the G8 had one of its best months ever in the US Or did you simply choose to ignore that article and the figures because it had nothing to do with Toyota?

    Its sales increased last month even though the overall sales for Large RWD perfomance cars in the USA decreased. People aren’t buying them; people don’t want them…? Yeah right whatever you reckon!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    D1ngo and his mate why bother answering them ,they are only after an argument !

  • Falcodore

    Tomas, you asked a question and i answered it and because you cant handle the FACTS you drag out your usual BS comments that make no sense.

    What i told you is real. Maybe if you got your head out of the toyota brochure and expanded on your reading material you might actually learn something.

    SOB, whats US camry sales got to do with this article?
    The reason you bring that up is because you’ve got nothing!

    Go away and SOB somewhere else son. Let the adults talk. you are out of your depth.

  • Falcodore

    Yeah BM, i thought it was suspicious they both appeared about the same time. Was thinking the same as you.

  • Millatime

    Tomas79

    Depends what head office says..

  • sick of bogans

    why i mentioned about camry in U.S.A is teach you camry is world car your crap dinosaurs are not. want some more news you bogans don’t want to hear…here you are…oh what a small world.article from drive.Holden’s Commodore is one of 29 cars to get the lowest rating in a world-first study into the visibility afforded drivers by today’s new cars.The first-of-its-kind blind spot study tested 138 cars using lasers and computers to assess the visibility they afforded drivers.

    None achieved the maximum five-star rating and 80 per cent scored just one or two stars, indicating poor frontal visibility.

    The reduced visibility is a result of the pillars on either side of the windscreen being made thicker to improve occupant protection and achieve favourable crash ratings.

    “It is quite possible that someone could quite easily turn into the path of an oncoming car in a roundabout, a pedestrian or a motorcyclist [due to poor vehicle design],” Robert McDonald, the NRMA Insurance head of research, said.

    The motoring group picked popular vehicles in segments of the market from city cars to four-wheel-drives and commercial vehicles. The best-selling Holden Commodore was among 29 cars – including two other Holdens – that scored just one star in the car blind spot rating. Australia’s best-selling cars: How they rate

    Holden Commodore 1/5
    Mazda3 3/5
    Toyota HiLux 2/5
    Toyota Corolla 3/5
    Ford Falcon 2/5

  • sick of bogans

    dinosaur days are well and truly overed and numbered.less petrol heads=safer road.

  • http://Atkinson sick of bogans

    the quickest the government introduce the law that the cars need to be inspected before issuing new rego,the better for community.

  • Escort_Ghia

    SOB if the goverment introduces this lwaw the only car on the road will be the likes of xr’s and ss’s becouse there more likely to look after athe car than an old fart more than anyone that drives a toyota.

  • http://daimler blitzkrieg

    sick of bogans,you wouldnt happen to be of asian or indian decent would you?

  • Escort_Ghia

    hey SOB what kind of car do you drive might i ask

  • Falcodore

    Again SOB, what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

    I’ll tell you. Absolutely nothing.

    When the “game changing” Aurion is shown up by a “dinosaur” all the toyophiles trudge out these irrelavant surveys. Always clutching at straws when feeling threatened and insecure. Must be awful to feel like that all the time.

    When we rid the world of hat wearing, ignorant, oblivious toyota drivers then the roads will be safer.

  • http://Atkinson sick of bogans

    no…they will not…..they came out from factory as lemons.
    you can name all that carps models at the end they are truly lemons.even can’t be compare with the cars made in korea…let alone the TOYOTA the world’s largest and respected car company.

  • sick of bogans

    government should introduce lemon law as well.

  • Falcodore

    SOB, Those laws you talk about already exist you moron!

    Gotta get mine done next week.

  • Andrew

    Sick of bogans etc, obvoiusly doesn’t care about Australia, or it’s motoring heritage, he should go back to his country and stick his D!ck into the nearest toyota exhaust pipe!

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut, just because they sold 4 g8s that month, instead of the ussual 3, doesn’t mean that all off a sudden the yanks want the G8!! It’s been out for ages, the stock yards are full!! People just aren’t interested!!

    Falcodore, sorry you lack the comprehension skills to understand!! But time to smell the coffee, and face the facts!!

  • sick of bogans

    when bogans can’t face the truth,they start swearing.oh what a small world.THE FACT IS YOU WILL NEVER WIN IF YOU IGNORE THE REALITY.

  • sick of bogans

    BY SWEARING YOU JUST SHOWN YOUR LOWEST STANDARD .NOTHING GONNA CHANGE BY SWEARING AT ME….TOYOTA WILL BE STILL NUMBER ONE IN AUSTRALIA AND IN THE WORLD..YES..2 DINOSAURS WILL BE FINISHED SOONER OR LATER.

  • sick of bogans

    yes..holden loves Australia so much they even selling 10 years old rebaged daewoo to innocent aussies as a hodlen.
    and these 2 dinosaurs sacked more workers than toyota even in the boom time.
    well..if you can\’t make money even in the boom time what hope you got now?pack it up?asks for handout?its too late.smarter (private buyer) aussies voted with their hard earned money and monthly sale results reflect that.

  • sick of bogans

    why you losing money?because the people not buying your products…right?you can’t sell your products here and no one else on earth want your products..what will you do?

  • Tomas79

    So true sick of bogans!!!

  • Millatime

    “why you losing money?because the people not buying your products…” It’s very good of you to point out why car companies lose money. But why didn’t you tell us Toyota are also losing money and asking for government handouts?

    Congratulations, now you and Thomas have zero credibility.

  • http://daimler blitzkrieg

    ahh sick of bogans(you are indian aren’t you )where’s your precious TRD cough cough now.

    toyota has no racing heritage,no interesting products,no excitement and no spirit, just washing machines on wheels driven by people who have no interest in cars or the ability to observe whats going on around them.

    toyota racing developments,what a joke

  • Tomas79

    Millatime,
    Who wouldn’t want some free money? Especially if your competition is getting unfair government handouts?!!
    I hope you are smart enough to realize the difference between “want” and “need”!!!

    Blitzkrieg, you sound like typical racist bogan!!

  • Andrew M

    the ramblings of tomas and SOB are quite amusing.

    I dont remember who said what but after scanning through the last few postings i cant help but ask if toyota is the pot or the kettle….

    I saw the boot stuck into holden for bringing 10year old designs here from korea and flogging them as new holdens. I want to know how that is any different to what toyota did in bringing 10 year old Avalons here and flogging them as new cars???

    Also whats with the blind spot ratings????
    of course the smaller corolla and mazda 3 are gonna have better visibility. smaller cars almost always doo.

    how about this…….
    Falcon safety 5 stars
    Commodore safety 5 stars
    Aurion safety 4 stars

  • Andrew

    Andrew M, you stole my thunder dude!- about the old US market Avalon designs dumped in OZ, and the ANCAP safety ratings… :)

    Not bad for dinosaurs huh?

    PS: I’d consider any car that runs on the oil produced partly by dead dinosaurs from millions of years ago to be dinosaurs anyhow (99% of cars, that includes BMW,M Benz and Toyota- before you say it, Prius (petrol/electric) is a tiny market compared to big, gas guzzling V8 SUV’s that Toyota market here and in the states etc).

    So if Falcons/commodores or performance cars or RWD cars etc are for bogans or petrol heads, then what are Ferrari’s,Lambo’s, BMW M’s, M Benz AMG’s,Porsches or indeed TRD’s for?
    - leisurely drives to the shopping centre???

    Remember Toyota’s suck in line? “we race, we learn. you win?”

  • Andrew M

    Oh, and then the constant “Game has changed” suck in line too.
    “Most fuel efficient large aussie 6″ ha ha ha ha ha

    well firstly the only aussie 6 is the falcons I6, and 2ndly, the aurion is no more efficient according to the ADR ratings, and further more, real world testing has shown it to be easily less efficient then the Falcons “Big aussie 6″

  • Andrew M

    So since toyota are currently under investigation from the ATO, I would expect the office of fair trading to be not far behind

  • Alec Smart

    Ford Falcons are more fuel efficent than Aurion,Toyota owners are more thermally efficent than Ford owners(Ford Owners Are Cooler),because of all the cardigans there wearing.

  • http://daimler blitzkrieg

    calling australians who drive falcons and commodores “bogans” is equaly racist.

    if someone is going to use a derogotory term such as bogan they must expect people to reply.

  • Tomas79

    Andrew M,
    Just like twidle dum no.2 (wheelnut), you seem to have developed a rather nasty aurion/camry fetish, the way you keep on going on about them!!

    It would be hard for Holden and ford australia to be investigated by the ATO, since they would have to make some money first!!! :-) !

    Andrew M, it is a such a simple minded (bogan) thing to do to be impacted by advertisement slogans isn’t it?!!

    Blitzkrieg, indians are a race, boganism is a lifestyle!!
    So calling somebody a bogan, is not being racist, you idiot!!

    By the way, Only bogans get offended by being called bogans!!

  • Miniskip

    Aaahh… It just wouldn’t be a Car Advice thread if Tomas79 or Dan didn’t make his appearance with his usual comments which are off topic based solely on his narrow-minded ignorant arrogant distorted point of view; have nothing positive to add to the discussion and are full of personal insults.

    Nice to see you didn’t let us down Tomas79

  • adam (aka mada)

    The realist,

    So how much profit did Toyota, Ford and holden Oz make over the last 10 years??

    How much did you pay for your M5?

    You drove rental vehicles, right…

    That explains a lot.

  • Andrew M

    Tomas,
    isnt it ironic that you feel i have developed a nasty aurion/camry fetish whilst at the same time you display a nasty ford/holden fetish……..
    All i did was counteract your usual pointless speil

    I was just pointing out that you shouldnt be throwing stones as you live in a glass house too

    You are right that bogans arent a race, but eitherway what you issued was a form of discrimination just like racism is also a form of discrimination.

    Only bogans get offended by being called bogans???
    bogans are typiclly laid back with a massive shee will be right attitude. Hardly the type top be offended by name calling.

  • http://bent Millatime

    This is the 295th post on LPG FG Falcons, that\’s mightily impressive!

  • Karl

    Great. Now learn to sell them. Poach Holden Marketing people. The way they sell these inferior commodores is embarrasing for ford, or at least should be.