US car industry to fight Obama’s green proposal
January 29, 2009 by Matt Brogan
US car industry groups are gearing up for a long legal battle against proposals made by President Barack Obama to allow California and 13 other states to set their own regulations on greenhouse gas emission from vehicles.
Manufacturers claim the state-by-state emission regulations proposed could add up to US$3000 to the cost of each new vehicle which would be fatal to the already ailing US car manufacturing industry and that the government should instead adhere to a strong national emissions standard of 35 miles to the gallon by 2020 that has already been agreed to.
“There will be continuing controversy over this. This is not going to go away,” said Bill Kovacs, vice-president for environment and regulatory affairs. “We will argue that this is a dangerous course of action.”
Industry groups will endeavour to find a compromise with the new administration before taking the legal action but in the depressed market are struggling to make ends meet and see Monday’s action as somewhat of a death blow to vehicle manufacturing.
“We are concerned that if states take off on their own then the economy will be Balkanized into regulatory fiefdoms,” said Hank Cox, vice president of communications at the National Association of Manufacturers. “The car industry is on the ropes right now. This would be economic folly of the first order.”
In an unusual loophole, California’s draft rules could so far favour some manufacturers and end up letting more high-fuel consumption vehicles on the road as in its present form exempts manufacturers that deliver for sale fewer than 60,000 vehicles per annum (this currently includes Volkswagen, Jaguar, Land Rover, Hyundai and Kia).
California produces roughly 1.4 per cent of the world’s and 6.2 per cent of the total US greenhouse gases and has often pioneered environmental standards.
Print it: 
*****PriMa*******//
My might HSV is very green conscious, I am always looking for a nice “green” patch of grass to do some circle work.
now i’ve heard it all.talk about biting the hand that feeds you(or keeps handing out bail out money)biggest wankers in the whole world…
HSV,
is that because ur might HSV wont do it on the sealed stuff?
I’m with JEKYL & HYDE on this one. The US government is giving them billions of dollars to save their businesses (i.e. jobs). Now in return they are giving them 11 years to clean up their acts. This is how the ungrateful US car makers react. If they did not employ 10% of the population either directly or indirectly, I would say, just let them die. Perhaps Obama should trade in his Caddy for a nice big bullet proof Diesel Audi as a protest.
Howie, that is gold mate, gold!
Howie-VL my might HSV is capable of doing it on the tar but I can’t afford the tyres and jacking someone elses tyres takes too much time. Besides who doesn’t enjoy ripping up nature every now and then. I prefer to save my tyres for “special occasions” ie Chapel Street on a Friday night.
LOL HSV you poser. You do know mate that the chicks on Chapel Street more than likely think your a knob. Quite the opposite reaction that you were hoping for I would imagine.
Just when I was starting to like the bloke.
If you really can afford to have a few HSV’s, I’m sure you can afford to get some second hand tyres fitted.
Jimbo & J&H, just a little thing. The report mentions US car manufacturers. Last time I looked this included Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes Benz, Mazda & Hyundai as well as the D3. What I read from this report is actually quite a rasonable response by the manufacturers in that having ine set of laws for Washington state cars, a different set for Californian and change them again for Iowa would simply add to the cost of manufacturer and achieve no real outcomes. Especially as the smaller importers would be exempt.
The US set out their CAFE laws (35mpg average across the brands fleet by 2020) some years ago and the manufacturers have all been working toward that. The US has more different types of Hybrids on sale than aby other country. As well as having a greater range of alternative fuels available. (It’s just that the end user doesn’t want them.) Now the administration wants to increase the target and then fragment the final goal. That in any business is just plain stupid.
This reminds me of the movie “Idiocracy”
America, this is your future.
SO the ‘Big Three’ beggars are planning to use bail out bucks to fight the government instead of spending it on intelligent and quality engineering, although they showed they can improve emissions 10 years ago but refuse to implement the changes.
Goodbye GM, Chrysler and maybe Ford of America, you have already proved you cannot turn a profit on your home turf. Stand back and let offshore compaines show you how to do it.
HSV, why do you bother writing this crap ?
No one here gives a shit about your cars (if you are really over 12yo and actually own one)
Your limited grasp of written English and ridiculous comments are exactly what give Holden and HSV it’s bogan image.
Lets face it 35MPG average (9.5ltr/100) in 11 years is rubbish. They should be able to manage that now. Especially when you consider the (Euro) BMW 530i 3.0ltr 200kw Petrol Six manages under 7.7ltr/100 as of 2 years ago!!
Horse, don’t worry about HSV he’s just a wind up!! His HSV is probably so old it runs on coal.
upshift Says:
Upshift again you pidgeon hole, But it’s ALL the MANUFACTURERS complaining!! There are more than three in the states you know.
lazybones Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
But that 35mpg also includes America’s favourite choice of vehicle (F150 was still the biggest seller there last year) the Pick-up and the SUV’s that the manufacturers have on their menus. So yeah it is actually a big call to get F series, Tundra’s & C/K series under that.
EG If Ford sell 500k F series and 500K passenger cars per annum then the average fuel consumption needs to be 35mpg! Now out of that pass make up, you might have 100k Fiesta 150K Focus 50k Hybrid Fusion / Escape and the rest would be Taurus and CV replacement. See the Challenge?
Don’t worry, people will soon buy electrics/hybrids from other manufacturers. Employees from the big 3 will start to move to other companies.
Yeh, just gotta build up steam before some doughies
Talk about resistance to change! If those manufacturers feel the need to fight rules like this that even gives them 11 years to get their act together they seriously deserve to shut up and close, but unfortunately as said above the industry employs a lot people.
I really don’t understand what obama is thinking. On one hand he wants to give money to the big 3 to prevent large scale job losses in US and further damage to their economy, yet he also wants to make emission regulation so strict that the big 3’s core product will suffer in sales. I don’t question the long term benefit to going green, but on the short term, he needs to address the economy and prevent the big 3 from going bust.
frontman,
i see your point.the article mentions “manufactorers”,without saying which ones.but at the same time one doesn’t have to be real smart to figure ford,gm,crysler etc(the guy’s who still make all the “big” ones)who have the most to lose.its really ironic that the f150 is the biggest selling truck,and yet the all the motor shows are displaying hybrid this,electric that.the oil barons are their own worst enemy,and the planet’s melting away in the meantime.sound’s like something’s gotta give…
the real issue here is that the car manufactorer’s should be saying “how can we do this”instead of “thats too hard,let’s fight it instead”.the root of the american auto industry is lined in corruption. oil barons,politicans,the military.what a mess…
Upshift…….its actually the “TWO” big beggars, not three.
I hear what your saying Frontman, but the challenge is getting yanks to think smaller!! An F250 passed me on the calder a while back. This thing is as big as a light goods vehicle! The simple answer is downsize, why do yanks think they need to drive trucks instead of cars?? Not to mention its petrol not diesel. I just don’t think the yanks get it!!
Lazybones, while you are right that it is good to downsize, if everyone around you was driving something of tank proportions, you would be reluctant to be driving something along the lines of a yaris for fear of death! It’s a mind set that needs to change over time. Much the same as the acceptance of electric cars. People just need to get over their initial reservations and will realise the benefits.
Why the (.)(.) can’t the dopey Americans get around the fact that this sort of thing is not the business of State Legislators? It’s one country with one automotive industry. If California’s fuel consumption and car emission rules don’t work for the whole country, let’s have some Federal standards.
Hey Captain given them back……….
Thanks Bav, I guess I should have asked permission to borrow them. ha(..)(..)ha
Actually J&H whilst the D3 do have a lot to lose, here’s a couple of interesting facts,
1/ Toyota have more SUV’s and Pickups than Passenger vehicles on their American menu. They have outlayed millions reverse engineering F150’s to come up with Tundra and haven’t had near enough time to reclaim some of that investment. Seing as Ford owes F series more than it owes Ford (something about gooses and golden eggs etc) it would worry Toyota to have to lose the Pick-ups, or even spend large on re-developing them.
2/ Ford have already put in place measures for the American public to be greener. Fusion Hybrids are the most economical in class, Escape is also proving to economical. F series are available with Petrol Diesel and Flex Fuel (ULP & 85%E) so these measures are already happening without any further government pressure. GM are also following with the fuel ranges and Hybrid adaptations of their fleet. Actually these two have probably been more active in the pursuit of alternatives than those manufacturers who have a green reputation. (no they aren’t angels and I don’t think either have to get out of bed everymorning for the sun to come up ;-)) Fords Hydrogen Edge currently doing the rounds of Europe is getting as high acclaims as the current fleet of H2 powered BMW 7’s being showcased everywhere.
Sorry for the long post but these are the reasons why i think this idea is a bit left of field and not properly thought through.
Cheers.
I have a solution for Ford.
For every F150 and retro V8 they sell they also sell a mini car with a 250CC 4 stroke engine that gets 200MPG for $200.
Just raise the price of the F150 to pay for it.
You average them out, problem solved.
Frontman Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 1:42 pm – Upshift again you pidgeon hole, But it’s ALL the MANUFACTURERS complaining!! There are more than three in the states you know.
“pidgeon hole”? WTF kind of cowardly statement is that?, I wish i could be a keyboard hero like yourself – Then you about face & write, “Actually J&H whilst the D3 do have a lot to lose”.
rack and pinion Says:
January 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Upshift…….its actually the “TWO” big beggars, not three.
Yes thanks for the correction R&P, makes for interesting future outcomes.
Ha.ha upshift… You mnis read me :-) I wasn’t calling you a pidgeon hole. I was actually refering to your actions. Same was as we say all Volvo drivers wear hats and Falcodore drivers are Bogans… That kind of pidgeon hole..
I’m no keyboard hero, I’m simply trying to point out that all the manufacturers over there are against these moves.
Sorry if I caused you any stress but I wasn’t name calling (c’mon I’d do better than that if I wanted to insult :p)
Simon, very true it will take time. I was watching an article on Fox news where they were talking about downsizing. The presenter said the Toyota Rav 4 was a good SMALL SUV that your kids to start in!! The new Rav 4 is as big as a territory. It gives you some idea of how far they’ve got to go.
As for fear of death, even once they downsize they will still be Americans and have guns :)
Bav, whats with the (.)(.)?? is that you just flashing your boobies or what?
If the US carmakers had of been working towards more efficient engines years ago, they wouldn’t be in this bind now. Bad management…
The 35mpg target won’t be achieved. Lazybones – by my calc 35 miles per imperial gallon is about 8.1l/100km but a US gallon is 20% less so the target equates to 6.7l/100km, which won’t be achieved by the Big 3 in 12 years.
I think they do have a point about letting each state setting their own targets rather than one federal objective. Imagine if in Australia Queensland could mandate side curtain airbags in new cars, Victoria required ESP, NSW mandated Xenon headlights etc, the cost would increase for everybody. If the US states can legislate different fuel economy and emission levels, manufacturers would have to meet the most stringent standard in order to sell a standard product range throughout the country.
Switch the F150s to diesel or diesel hybrid/stop-start whatever. It’s not hard.
Simple case of we want your money but not your rules.
Someone mentioned it’s not just the Big 3 who makes cars in the US, but most of them who aren’t Big 3 have a fleet average of under 30mpg because they don’t have hulking great steel bridges disguised as cars.
“target equates to 6.7l/100km”, well spotted Melbournedee. I was reading the wrong column in my spreadsheet!!
But that should be doable in 11 years. The europeans will manage it, why can’t the yanks?
They need to start the message now that downsizing is the only way. Not to mention they need to embrace Diesel.
Melbournedee, thank you for taking the time to do the sums, that’s actually what I’ve been sidding with the Manufacturers about, we’ve had to be looking at ways to get that average across the fleet whilst the buyers are still stuck in this “It’s my goddamned right to bear arms and I need a Pickup so-as I can carry me shotguns across tha back window”.
When you look at the cars available to them as quite normal vehicles with Hybrid drive units (Prius, Camry Highlander, Escape & now Fusion) there is no real reason for the manufacturers to feel guilty, the public should be held accountable as well for not buying these things.
Supercujo, the best selling vehicle for 25 of the last 27 years in the states has been the F series! The manufacutrers do build what the public want.
Slugger, sorry but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW and Hyundai are not yet under the limits set by CAFE Laws. In actual fact Toyota and Ford are very closely leveled when comparing their fleet results.