ZF: Transmission ratio war coming to an end | CarAdvice

Car Advice
  • Home
  • »  ZF: Transmission ratio war coming to an end

ZF: Transmission ratio war coming to an end

By Tim Beissmann
FIND DEALS

A senior executive from leading German transmission manufacturer ZF Friedrichshafen AG believes the battle between car and component makers to add more gears to their automatic transmissions could be coming to an end.

ZF North America president Julio Caspari told US industry journal Automotive News he is unsure if the potential fuel efficiency gains achievable by adding more ratios to auto gearboxes are great enough to justify their significant development and production costs.

“We are coming close to the limit,” Caspari said. “Can we produce a perfect transmission, and what would it cost? We would need to look at things like ceramic ball bearings to reduce friction, which would be expensive.”

Caspari said there was only an 11 per cent gap between the theoretical ‘perfect transmission’ and the most efficient transmissions on the market today.

ZF began producing its eight-speed automatic transmissions for vehicles with longitudinally mounted engines in 2009, which it says leads to 11 per cent better fuel economy than a standard six-speed auto. ZF’s eight-speed auto is used by a number of luxury European car makers including Audi, Bentley, BMW, Jaguar Land Rover, Rolls-Royce and Volkswagen, as well as Chrysler and Dodge.

Next year, it will begin production of a nine-speed automatic unit designed for vehicles with transverse-mounted engines, which claims to be 16 per cent more efficient than a six-speed. Chrysler is the first manufacturer to get on board, and plans to roll out the nine-speed across its entire front-wheel-drive line-up over time.

Caspari was unflustered by reports that Hyundai is developing a 10-speed automatic transmission for use in its high-end Genesis and Equus models from 2014, suggesting that time will tell if the extra ratio will make real-world economy improvements or prove to be little more than a marketing exercise.

Caspari would not comment on whether ZF was developing its own 10-speed transmission, and said the company’s next major project was an upgrade to its eight-speed unit.


 

  • kazuo

    lol, Hyundai 

    • jesse

      and your point is?

      • Troll No. 39

         His point is probably the utter stupidity and pointlessness of a 10 speed automatic transmission. Ridiculous.

        • Shak

          Some people would say the same for 8 and 9 speed transmissions.

          • nickdl

            True, but in Australia in particular, is there actually 10 different speeds that people drive at, where you would need a gear for each speed? There are 7 different speed limits in Australia in increments of 10 from 40 to 110km/h, plus 130 in the Outback. At the upper end in particular some of the speeds are so relatively close that there is absolutely no need for a different gear. e.g. the difference between 90 and 100 in a six- or seven-speed car. 

            There is never going to be a need for a car which has so many gears that it changes so often. For a start it would not be enjoyable to drive, it would be expensive to produce and maintain and the efficiency benefits, as ZF have said, will be negligible. Nowadays in particular, engines have such a broad torque band that they don’t require gearshifts as frequently. 

            There are plenty of six-speed autos out there that are easily confused already, Hyundai should know about this in the i45 – driving a rental one I found the kickdown took longer and was more violent than the four-speeder in my old 2000 Liberty. Of course ZF make good boxes – the six-speed in my Territory is superb. But with more gears there is more room for this sort of confusion as programming the transmission becomes much more complex.

            Ultimately CVTs will most likely develop and become more enjoyable and efficient. To me, anything more than the current eight or nine ratios in an automatic transmission will be utterly redundant. Hyundai would do better to invest some money into improving the steering and ride of their cars.

          • Shak

            I was saying the exact same thing as you. In my opinion you wont need any more than 6 or 7 speeds in most situations in Australia.

          • Smart US

             can only disagree… ratios are to suit driving conditions 60km/h on flat and 60km/h up-hill/down-hill are completely different situations… the article says that the benefits are limited pass 8-9 gear ratios considering the cost… for the matter of driving 4s auto in my territory does a good job… quality of the box depends on the company putting it together – 6s auto from crape company can be worse than old 4s falcon

  • Andrew

    I think the ZF is a great box, the best thing Ford Aus did in a long time was introducing the ZF into the Falcon…compared to the majority of autos out there it’s a great piece of kit.

    I really don’t see the need anything over a six or seven speed auto in a car…

  • Smart US

    ZF are great company – more of those gear boxes

  • Acfsambo

    Just think, they used to advertise 4 speed and 5 speed gearbox’s that were 3 forward or 4 forward speeds and a reverse. Wouldn’t a smaller light more efficient 6 speed be better than having a heavy complicated 10 speed? Less weight, components can be made to smaller tolerances as there are less to make and easier for them to be packaged in cars.

  • Bazz

    I think we are getting too smart for our own good.
    I drive a four year old diesel mondeo with a six speed normal auto box and have done 160000km without a problem. The box runs smoothly and will hold the gears up to 3000rpm on normal throttle before changing.
    We have a newer diesel mondeo in the fleet with the dual clutch auto. This is a pain to drive as all it wants to do is to get into sixth gear as quickly as possile and is not at all responsive. I believe these boxes need a major service every 60,000km
    Give me an old style auto any day

  • Haua

    6-speed is perfect

  • Schn

    Technically, the ratio war would have been won by CVTs, after all they theoretically have an infinite number of gears, and also really good fuel economy. 

    • JamesB

      CVT would have been the perfect gearbox if not for the droning sound at startup and its inability to handle more torque.

      • AxisofEvil01

        Thank you james. Well put

      • Schn

        True. Very true. Although, I think it’s really starting to gain some torque and some manufacturers manage to take away that drone. 

        • Mike

          Take away the drone? How so? The drone is not the transmission but the engine turning at the same optimal rpm number all the time, which is the very purpose of the CVT.

          • Schn

            Yes, well, not from the engine, but sound proofing it or something similar to make the drone minimal if not be able to be heard at all is possible, I think CarAdvice reported that in the new Audi’s CVT there was minimal if not any CVT drone. 

      • aranciata-oz

        I’ve driven CVT’s in the Maxima and Kizashi and also travelled in CVT-equipped Liberty – my thoughts are that it works very well in the Maxima with little ‘droning’, perhaps due to its torque from the silky smooth V6 keeping revs low, in the Liberty it was OK, in the Kizashi the droning was terrible, perhaps due to its lethargic engine in general and the tranny trying to keep up by holding the constant rev.

        My conclusion is CVT suits bigger torquier engines better, but that kind of flies in the face of them not being able to handle too much torque! :-)

        Finally, the 5-speed auto in my 4-cyl 09 Sonata works well (it does tend to shift into 5th gear very quickly, but that’s more to do with programming), so I do agree anything beyond 8-speed in a medium car one may as well lean towards CVT …

      • aranciata-oz

        I’ve driven CVT’s in the Maxima and Kizashi and also travelled in CVT-equipped Liberty – my thoughts are that it works very well in the Maxima with little ‘droning’, perhaps due to its torque from the silky smooth V6 keeping revs low, in the Liberty it was OK, in the Kizashi the droning was terrible, perhaps due to its lethargic engine in general and the tranny trying to keep up by holding the constant rev.

        My conclusion is CVT suits bigger torquier engines better, but that kind of flies in the face of them not being able to handle too much torque! :-)

        Finally, the 5-speed auto in my 4-cyl 09 Sonata works well (it does tend to shift into 5th gear very quickly, but that’s more to do with programming), so I do agree anything beyond 8-speed in a medium car one may as well lean towards CVT …

  • gt86.com.au

    Never stop innovation. I would want the theoratical maximum efficiency gear box, especially in some of the ridiculously priced luxury cars. Even if its a 15 gear box (but gives the 99% of the theoretical maximum benefit), it will be doing the shifting, not me.

  • Mick

    The 8 speed ZF is a great gearbox. 
    It helps get more performance out of fuel efficient engines, which is what I care about more than economy.
    I don’t think we need more than 8 though, but 6 should be minimum.

  • Mick

    The 8 speed ZF is a great gearbox. 
    It helps get more performance out of fuel efficient engines, which is what I care about more than economy.
    I don’t think we need more than 8 though, but 6 should be minimum.

  • Mick

    The 8 speed ZF is a great gearbox. 
    It helps get more performance out of fuel efficient engines, which is what I care about more than economy.
    I don’t think we need more than 8 though, but 6 should be minimum.

  • chook

    And regardless of how many ratios there are they will one day be outdated by constant variable ratio , which already is on the market in one model at least , possibly more . That will one day end the argument over who has the most ratios !!!,,,,,,and If we think about it , people want less cylinders but more ratios and larger rim diameters . Its quite ironic !!

  • Phunken

    I driven a Lancer equip CVT and while the droning noise is perceptively loud, the perormance equip for the car is no worse than other auto i driven. I found people who are use to manual have issue with it more when they just mash the pedal, the trick i found is to ease the pedal to build up speed 2500rpm than the constant surge will be a surprise with the speed. Because of the fluid gradual surge people think its not going as fast as it is.