Car Advice

HSV W427 goes 270km/h

By Alborz Fallah |

“Crickey, that thing is so wicked, it ought to be illegal,” the first words uttered by an excited Kiwi V8 Supercar driver Greg Murphy after stepping from his first few minutes in Holden Special Vehicles range topping W427 sports sedan.

HSV W427

Let’s be plain from the beginning, ‘Murph’ has spent more than a few minutes going very, very fast in all manner of cars, not just his regular V8 Supercar ride.

– David Twomey

Whatismore, it was palpably plain from the excitement on his face as he burst into The Chalet at GM Holden’s Proving Ground complex at Lang Lang outside Melbourne that he had had more fun than normally is the case, at least sitting down!

I, and my assembled motoring writer colleagues, stopped eating our very excellent GM provided lunch as Greg repeated his statement and then went on to wax lyrical for several more minutes on just how much fun HSV’s “supercar” W427 was – and all he’d done is a few laps of the so-called “ride and handling track” – a simulation of just about every bad piece of Australian road that GM has been able to put together.

Even better was to come later, certainly for yours truly, but let’s roll back a few hours to an early morning start in Clayton at the industrial complex-hidden headquarters of HSV.

While much of the local motoring media had spent a day at a wet and windy Calder Park Raceway near Melbourne with the HSV W427, CarAdvice was invited along to a road drive program from HSV HQ in Clayton that was to culminate at the super-secret Lang Lang Proving Ground with the opportunity to drive the W427 on some of the test tracks, in company with aforementioned Mr Murphy.

HSV W427HSV W427

How could we refuse? Of course we didn’t!

In the beginning there were the usual presentations from a string of HSV executives who explained that the W427 will be built to a total of 427 individually constructed vehicles over the next two years and the first 90, governed by the availability of the LS7, 7.0-litre V8 monster that goes under the bonnet, will be built and delivered to owners who, apparently, have happily parted with $155,000 for the most expensive Holden Commodore, and the most expensive HSV, ever built.

The W427 was conceived to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of HSV and the 375kW/640Nm Chevrolet Corvette-engined W427 is the car “HSV has always wanted to build” according to engineering manager Joel Stoddart.

He added that it had been the focus for the organisation over the past two years.

HSV W427HSV W427

Like most of HSV’s powerplants the LS7 engine is shipped direct from the GM Performance Build Centre in North America, but all the external bits, including the dry-sump system, the exhaust and the cold-air induction system were all developed right here in Australia.

The standard Corvette engine computer and the Electronic Stability Control system were also modified after a year of local development work.

HSV’s Managing Director Phil Harding was keen to tell us that the W427 demonstrated that engineering and design ingenuity was alive and well in the Australian car industry.

He’s also keen to have the W427 identified as a ‘supercar’ and while we doubt its credentials as such, preferring the tag to remain with somewhat more bespoke automotive creations, there is no doubting that this is one of the most competent cars ever built by HSV.

HSV W427HSV W427

HSV’s design team, led by Julian Quincey, are also keen to ensure that the distinctive mark they have left on the W427 doesn’t go un-noticed.

Quincey told us;” the design brief for the W427 was to create a unique face for this HSV, one that would signal the car’s immense capability, authority and power.”
“The W427 is the flagship of the HSV range and we wanted to emphasise the hand-built qualities of this car, “ he said.

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Has this been achieved, we think not entirely as the W427 still looks very much like a regular HSV with a few enhancements, including a very subtle rear spoiler, made in hand-laid carbon-fibre that takes one day to lay up and two days to clear-coat finish to mirror smoothness, very nice but almost too understated for an HSV!

HSV W427HSV W427

The biggest design statement is probably the wheels, their ‘castellated’ design graphic is repeated in the W427 badging and is the work of a former Wheels Young Designer of the Year, Adam Dean Smith.

They are certainly very distinctive and a definite statement as far as the W427 goes.

So to the business end of the W427, let’s get it on the road and see how it drives.

Our initial route, in a convoy of four cars, led by a yet to be released HSV Tourer, was through the suburbs of Melbourne heading towards some less trafficked outer suburban roads and then onto a series of country roads that would eventually take us to the Lang Lang Proving Ground.

HSV W427HSV W427

Sitting behind the wheel of the most powerful locally built car ever with Program Manager Graeme Dusting riding shotgun I have to say the initial impressions are of surprising driveability and total lack of temperament.

This could have been a car all full of menace with a ride to rattle your fillings and brakes, steering and clutch to match, but instead this is a car with sophistication, that goes like a race car but has a docile and well-mannered side that means you could live with it every day if that’s what you chose to do.

We suspect, indeed HSV say so, that more than a few owners will simply take delivery of their W427 and park it in the garage in the hope that a decade down the track it will be worth a lot more than the $155,000 they paid out.

HSV W427HSV W427

Equally we believe a lot of owners will enjoy these cars for what they are, something close to their revered Holden V8 Supercar, and will drive them both on a daily basis and on track-days.

Slipping the lever of the six-speed Tremec TR6060 transmission into first and letting out the surprisingly light clutch, thanks to HSV’s revised actuator system, produces an effect that may not have been expected – ease of operation. This is a car you could actually drive in stop-start traffic, in fact we did just that and didn’t end up with sore leg nor any other discomfort.

Incidentally there is no automatic version, the W427 produces just too much power, but the manual box has two overdrive gears and slots through the cogs with a minimum of fuss.

As the traffic began to clear, and we did need to keep up with the convoy (well that was my excuse) the throttle pedal got a substantial prod and the W427 lept into life with all the urgency of a racecar.

HSV W427HSV W427

Power delivery is very linear from the mid-range and there is no sudden peak in the torque curve, making it all feel very controllable without the risk of any sudden traction-breaking surge.

At the same time there is the NOISE! Oh yes, the noise, now I’ve driven the new Mercedes-Benz C63 and I have to say nothing sounds more like a V8 race car than that, but this comes damn close.

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Much of the noise is due to a very fancy exhaust system, using bi-modal rear mufflers that are computer controlled! These are necessary to meet idle and drive-by noise requirements under the ADRs.

The power of the W427 also makes light work of the car’s considerable weight, at 1847kg it is 45kg heavier than a ClubSport R8.

HSV W427HSV W427

At the same time there’s enormous grip available from the big tyres and some hard work a little later at the Proving Ground revealed progressive breakaway that is easy to control, while the brakes – HSV’s first ever six-pot front callipers – provide commendable feel and prodigious stopping power that is confidence inspiring.

A real surprise was the ride quality, not usually expected from a car running on 20-inch wheels, 8.0-inch wide at the front and 9.5-inch at the rear with low profile tyres, 35-series front and 30-series rear. It also needs to be remembered that the W427 rides 20mm lower than a GTS and has 30 percent stiffer springs and shock absorbers all round.

Personally never a great fan of HSV’s Magnetic Ride Control(MRC) system we have to say that the revised calibration in the W427 is something of a revelation, providing good manners or all but the harshest of bumps on the “Ride and Handling Track” at Lang Lang, even with the dashboard-mounted control button selected in the “track” setting for ultimate handling performance.

HSV W427HSV W427

So let’s cut to the chase – a few quick laps around the “ride and handling track” with your CarAdvice editor at the wheel proved that the W427 can really cut it with the quickest of cars and while it may not be as sophisticated as a real “supercar” but it is very controlled, very balanced and very quick.

It felt as compliant as a number of European sports sedans that it would vie with for customers, underscoring its daily driver credentials.

Now the Lang Lang Proving Ground has one feature that’s not usually available to mere mortal motoring journalists and that is a Speed Bowl.

This neutral handling facility has three lanes, the top most being reserved to cars being tested at very high speed and seeing as we are here, with the self-proclaimed fastest locally-made car ever it would be a shame not to put it to the test.

HSV W427HSV W427

So here we sit, Greg Murphy is strapped into the driver’s seat of a menacingly black HSV W427, your intrepid editor is in the passenger seat and in the back seat is Sarah from HSV’s PR Department.

Greg wheels the W427 out onto the lower lane of the Speed Bowl and we beginning gathering speed.

“You know this thing has a fuel cut out at 270km/h,” he casually drops into our conversation.

“How do I know, well I hit it” he adds.

I suggest to “Murph” that it would be a good idea to check that again and we continue to gather speed relentlessly moving up the lanes of the speed bowl as we rocket around heading closer and closer to the end of the 290km/h speedo.

Now into the uppermost lane of the Bowl we are rock steady, cabin noise is contained we are talking at a normal voice level, but my eyes are riveted to the speedo, now hovering tantalisingly close to the 270km/h mark.

HSV TourerHSV Tourer

Then we hit it and at the very moment a perceptible cut in power is detected and we immediately start to fall away from the magic number until at 250km/h the fuel kicks back in and we continue to circulate.

Greg winds the speed back and we slowly drop back down the bowl until we are cruising around at a mere 180km/h – and yes it does feel like you could get out and walk faster!

It was fun while it lasted and like all good things it had to come to an end – the ride was one to savour, this is certainly one very fast Commodore and one very well engineered one to boot.

Worth it, we doubt it, but that won’t matter one jot to the potential buyers, who just want the meanest, fastest baddest Commodore ever built.


 
  • Mike Hunt

    I just want one, or two?

    • Suntory time

      After seeing (& hearing) one of these take-off last night… wow! what a car. If one can’t appreciate such a car, that’s their problem… I can’t get that sound out of my head.

  • jon

    Still a taxi, same poor quality thats in a Commodore as I always say start with crap don`t matter wat u add to it, its still crap

  • SamR

    Hey where is Evan Green when you need him?

  • John

    What a true road going “supercar” and it’s made right here in Australia.
    We should all be very lucky and proud we can still buy these cars here.

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com/ SuperCujo

    With such a large lump of an engine producing 500hp, I was expecting closer to 300 than that.

  • Johnny

    Still buy these cars? Who is going to buy a $155K Commodore? Only a bogan with more $ than brains. Buy an SS build a 454ci LSX and it will blow the pants off this over-priced chump of a car (if you really need a fast Commodore).

    I feel sorry for those buying these thinking they will become classics. Please 1971 is over bogans, these things will never be held in the same regard as the muscle cars of the late 60′s early 70′s. Anyone thinking that is kidding themselves.

    At the end of the day a piddly little EVO IV can still run rings around this overpriced Commodore on the track.

  • Johnny

    I meant to say EVO IX, but hey even an EVO IV would shit all over it too lol.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Australian engineering is alive and well? yes sirree we really know how to bolt American crate engines into an opel donar chassis…
    Maybe he meant Australian Marketing is alive and well..
    Anyone else notice some desperation creaping into this car?

  • WVB

    umm….SamR, Evan Green died in 1996

  • WVB

    ………and just in case, Peter Brock was killed in 2006

  • Karl

    Get your facts right DanMan, there is not a single piece of opel donar chassis in this car you idiot. And get used to seeing more stuff from america next all new falcon will be sourced from there…

  • Richo

    DanMan – holden stopped using the opel omega donor chasis in the VZ you dunce, the VE was 100% engineered here in australia, where have you been for the last few years?

    HSV have gone out their and built a very profitable car for themselves which IS selling because there IS people who want to buy it, yet you dickheads still find a way to criticise it? You really all need to get a life

  • John

    You can love them or hate them but why would’nt holden power their cars with American grunt? Chevrolet have been making the “Small Block” and that is what the LS2/LS3/LS7 etc. are for 50 years now. The LS7 may be 7l too the LS2 6l but dimensionally they are the same size and the LS7 is only 8kg heavier. Chev know what they are doing when it comes too building a V8 and I don’t blame holden/HSV for sourcing their engines from there!

  • Frosty

    This is directed to those usual suspects complaining about anything Holden. Jealousy is a curse, get over it. At least V8 power is raw power not artificial bolt on power.

  • 328cobra

    Come on guys even when HSV & FPV come up with these great cars (by the way shit on any 70′s built cars) you still bag them is this because you dont have the funds to purchase such great cars or would you prefer modern oz muscle cars be extinct and live on the memory of the 70′s

  • http://Jeep Aussie

    Paying that much money for a car that rattles what a joke

  • Ra

    I think we can see this car being forgotten as quickly as the VX300 or GTS Coupe they really should have made it like the 2004 Ram Air 6 GTO that thing just looked brilliant.

    This new 427 looks like an omega with a plastic bodykit.

    I wonder if you guys will prefer to see what Vauxhall will do to create something similar.

  • MB

    E55′s have been doing this for sometime

  • jtoddy

    Good to see that Greg Murphy actually does something these days. Other than just turning up to the race track to collect his pay check.

  • Mick

    Frosty, John and Richo its good to hear a voice of people with an education and who actually are knowledgeable enough to realise that this is a great step for the Australian car manufacturing industry.

  • Allan

    I just cant see what the heck is so great about this car? Sure its fast, but $155k for a Holden Commodore? It doesn’t even look good for a start, has an ancient push rod engine and street cred that only appeals to bogans. For that sort of money you could easily get yourself something german with better technology, built quality and badge cred. But hey, anyone who buys this car most likely has enuff money to buy some other european exotic as well so this hsv is probably just for braggin rights with his bogan maaaates and to satisfy his equally bogan self esteem.

  • Jamie

    I like the look of the VE Holdens, but this…

    Engine, speed, price, handling aside it doesn’t look good at all. The front is a mess and the back it’s much better.

  • MB

    For $150K I would buy a GTR, if I needed a 4 door a M3 Sedan or C63 with a flash tune. I could even get a wagon

  • http://faster DanMan

    Mick Says:
    September 16th, 2008 at 11:22 am
    Frosty, John and Richo its good to hear a voice of people with an education and who actually are knowledgeable enough to realise that this is a great step for the Australian car manufacturing industry.

    Wow i only like people that agree with my point of veiw.It re-enforces the idea that i am right-minded.
    whatever guys… an OPINION i have is that HSV/FPV fans are the most insecure of all car followers.. why else do they get so angry when threatened? My god guys.. they are only metal and rubber.. and marketing like this article.. not very important to attack other people is it..
    sorry my facts where slighty wrong on the opel chassis. everything else and the gist of my previous post stands..

  • Theo

    Is there a 1/4 mile time for this car?

  • Richo

    DanMan your comments where slightly wrong, they where completely wrong, hence my comments.

    Also whats with this “pushrod engines are ancient” stuff? You do realise that overhead cams have been around since the 1920′s? Hardly ground breaking technology. Fact is GM use to make DOHC V8′s, infact the C4 corvette had DOHC, but what GM found was that yes they could give a DOHC V8 of 5.0ltr capacity the same power as a pushrod V8 of 5.7ltr capacity, but whats the point? Yes on paper the engine is more efficient, however it didn’t use any less fuel, it was SIGNIFICANTLY heavier and more bulky then the pushrod motor, as well as more expensive and complex to manufacture and repair. So, whats the point? Hence why GM shifted back to pushrod V8′s.

    And also, just because an engine has DOHC doens’t mean its a “high tech” motor, their is alot more to an engine then then way it actuates its valves! By that logic then the old Holden family II four cylinder is more high tech then the current commodores 6.0ltr V8 because it has DOHC, something we know is completely not the case.

    But narrow minded people cannot see past the old “pushrod, must be ancient, ra ra ra” crap and fail to comprehend that where the cams are is not the most important thing about an engine.

    Oh and Mercedes benz’s flagship V8 is a 6.2ltr V8 (although they call it a 6.3ltr for “historical” purposes) so its not like GM are the only manufacturer who uses big cube engines!

  • http://faster DanMan

    oh i give up trying to TALK to people about HSV’s. there is no point. the same old cliches get trotted out. OHC this, read wheel drive that, blah, blah, blah.
    Anyway it’s kinda sad because GM will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the 4th quarter (google gm death watch) and this this will all go away… So making stupid cost cutt, large margin, 34% chinese sourced,under engineered (25% OF SERVICE DEPT INCOME IS WARRANTY), over marketted,parts bin,poor handling death trap products like this will end.
    should free up alot of internet bandwith…

    • Suntory time

      This guys an idiot!

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    I grew up in Adelaide in the 70′s 80s and have sat at the kitchen table with many a bogan (Adelaide is where most of them reside) talking about the same stuff that is on this blog. Some bogans made it big and can afford HSV / FPV, but most are still doing up their Torana, and it gunna be a drag car. Thank god I got out of Adelaide.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Well played that man… sorry That SALESMAN.
    I have a wide veiw of cars and all things automotive.. happy to live and let live, as it were.
    But These right brained occoltist’s that blindly follow a company whose greatest achievement is marketing a silly V8 with the worst build quality in Australia.. Well, if cars are a religion, they are the Taliban..
    *runs to his underground bunker*

  • Bret

    The Salesman,
    Your post adds no value to the forum, is very derogatory and apart from that is totally wrong as well!

    Get run out of town for dodgy practices did you? Take your grudges eslewhere!

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    @ Bret.
    Yes I was run out for dodgy practices. I was welding a bunch of crappy parts together, charging a stupid price and calling it a super car. I am not rubbishing the product, nor would I rubbish any product. I just don’t like it.

  • FRUGAL_ONE

    Did/nt Murphy crash it?

    Cheers

    F-0

  • FRUGAL_ONE

    SALESMAN -

    Re Adelaide

    “Salisbury types” lol

    I tell ya its the water pucking with there brain in S/Aust.

    Should be a inquiry about it.

    Still, heaps of very very pretty girls in S/Aust., so all is forgiven

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Adam

    What the F*CK!!!!!!!!!
    it looks exactly the same as an R8.
    Big woop its more powerful. I guarantee most people, Especially women wouldn’t be able to spot the difference if their life depended on it.
    This is a much bigger flaw than you might think. Because if the only chicks that will recognise the car are bogans from melton, then what a waste of 155K.

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au Karl Peskett

    Frugal, no it wasn’t Murph. It was Tander while doing a run at Oran Park for a popular auto magazine.

  • Adam

    ^^^ with that all said. i like the look of it, probably has something to do with the fact i like the look of the R8.

  • Tim

    Buying a Falcodore for over $100 000? Umm, no thanks – however fast it goes, it is still just a bogan sedan.

  • Stevo the Devo

    How the hell can an extra 800cc be worth an double the price of a 6.2l HSV. The FPV boys will just put out something faster and more powerful for under $100k and the resale value on these overpriced commies will plummet.

  • Richo

    yeah yeah the resale will plumet bla bla, just like how a 1996 HSV GTS-R in original and good condition recently sold at auction for over $200,000.

    The anti-holden people on this page can’t explain away that one can ya’s! Seriously get a life, just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean other people can’t! I get so frustrated at people on here that just because they don’t like a certain make of car then everyone else who does must be bogans. How about you all go get a life instead of getting your jollies off insulting people on the internet just because you don’t like the kind of cars that they like.

  • Richo

    Then you get people like DanMan who runs around calling holden and ford fans overly sensitive and they are like the Taliban because they can’t handle hearing other peoples opinions, but then chucks the most almightly sooks when people turn around and have a go at his comments! Contradicting yourself much? How about just making yourself out to be a hypocritical tool? Yep, both!

  • Ra

    Just like the VX300 eh…

  • http://faster DanMan

    Anyone here taken my advice and Googled ‘gm death watch’?
    Anyone hear blog on ‘jalopnik’ or ‘detroit free press’ or ‘the truth about cars’?
    Anyone here actually driven an America Car in like say.. America?
    Anyone here actually like sold HSV and FPV and had to put up with the silly general public wanting to kill you on a test drive…
    I’m kinda guessing no… *meh*
    I’m going for a drive.. which of the 40 keys on my desk are closest?

  • Ivan

    For the same price you can get a GTR.
    Its got better handling, weight distribution, smaller more fuel efficient engine and AWD with all the sensors. Goes up to 290km/h as well.

    And the GTR kills the Carerra GT, McLaren SLR and Porsche 911 turbo, at 1/3 of the price. THAT will become a classic in years to come. Everybody in the world will remember what the GTR has done in the supercar world.

    The W427 is just a showcase of what HSV can do, and it’s definitely not the engine =P

    IF I has $150k to spare, I’d definitely go for the GTR.

  • Mr Brooksy

    I have to say that 270 in an Aussie 4 door sounds like fun! Congrats Holden on making it happen. It alsways seems like HSV seem to have an imagination, and FPV seem to always lag slightly behind in this area. I hope for my side (Ford/FPV) that when the GTHO (or whatever it becomes) comes along that it can break the mould a little more (like the 427) and see another beautiful Aussie machine!

    I say Ford and Holden go out there and make desireable machines like these. Stop under engineering your products for the masses, and bring back some passion in your creations. Great first step, lets see some more!!

  • http://faster DanMan

    Hi, Im currently selling our GTSR. It has under 8,000 kms. Still smells like new, and looks like new. All the carbon fiber is perfect. There is nothing else really to say other than its ‘like new’. Offers over $120,000. Also have a VN Group A selling too.
    Thanks.
    Richo, I dont think so..
    This guy never sold his in 2 months…

  • Fenno

    Pity the car was restricted. Before this trend I remember they could crack 265 with the GTS or the CSV. I wouldnt mind seeing how an unrestricted one would go.
    How did it pull from 250 onwards?
    What was the story with the two wagons in the photos?

  • Richo

    DanMan – what the hell are you on about now? Your making stuff all sense buddy. My point was you accuse holden fans of not being able to handle other peoples opinion, but your the one breaking into hysterics because we refuse to agree with you! Bloody idiot…

  • http://faster DanMan

    Na not really. I just thought i would search the net, do some cut and paste and present some ‘facts’ to justify the opinions I brought up. Referencing i think it’s called..
    You should visit here.. the weather’s great..
    I’m not quite schizophrenic but i will be two people today.. Hahaha.

  • BTYF

    what is DanMan on about.
    i actually want to understand what your saying. why are you advertising cars? i seem to be missing a couple pieces of the puzzle or your just off your face. also your gay

  • Frenchie

    If this car makes the owner feel good well its a job well done to HSV. Now if they have sold 100 of these W427′s, I think it makes some of these bloggers look pretty stupid( as far as not selling). Those who say it too much money are simply jealous that they can’t afford a car like this or any car that matter!

  • BTYF

    ^Frenchie. I’m pretty sure that if they Sell 100 but build 427, that would qualify as an epic fail. Not that i don’t think they’ll sell. just being a smart-arse.

  • Andrew M

    Mr Brooksy,
    the only part where Holdens imagination extends further than fords is in the way that holden are more focused on building cars for “fans”

    honestly, great imagination whoever sat down at the meeting and said lets make it go faster. Pfffttt!

    not trying to take anything away from this vehicle, but its not really sliced bread all over again is it???

    as ive said once and ill say it again,
    “holden only build vehicles for fans”
    thats their number one requirement when designing a new vehicle. they always throw all the tricks at a car that sound cool rather than putting some decent engineering into it.

    now ive gotten that out……..
    i would still love to give this a whirl though :)

    BTYF,
    im also pretty sure that if demand is greater than supply, that it means it isnt an “epic failure”.

    if you read carefully you will see that they have only been able to manufacture 90 so far due to a great demand for the 7.0L engine they are using in it.
    its not like the whole 427 are sitting there waiting for buyers.
    100 made, 100 purchased doesnt mean failure

  • Bollinger

    All this abt bogans / hsv vs fpv / weird insults is all beside the point. What Brooksy said is bang-on: its abt the imagination to build something different – a different take on an existing product and seeing where it can go. Admittedly they can improve upon it in a lot of ways but you have to agree this has caught the imagination of the masses. Much like FPV w their F6

  • Richo

    also people are saying “ahh its just a big engine” but its more then that, it has some brand new brakes on it that are apparently supreme and the handling setup on the car has been widely acclaimed as excellent. So its not just an engine.

    Andrew M, i’ve said it to you before and i’ll say it again, what the hell is wrong with building cars for fans? Who else are you going to build your cars for? Your hardly going to go out and design a car for someone you know isn’t going to buy it now are you? Your going to build a car for the sort of people you know will buy them! Thats just common bloody sense mate and its what every other manufacturer on the planet does! You really can be daft sometimes mate…

  • jon

    Look I can understand people paying around 50-60k on a Falcon or a Commodore, I mean I personally wouldn`t but they have good performance for the dollars. But to pay anything more than that for one is just stupidity it really is. At the end of the day they really are no better refined or have better quality than the base model and they are generally poor, but to pay 155k makes sense only to I guess someone trying to make money off it in the future and maybe they will and maybe they won`t, I guess time will tell.

  • Skitza

    Only a fool would spend a 155k on a Commodore. It could have 77Litres and it would still be not worth it. Get an evo and spend 50k on it, bye bye :)

  • Realcars

    Evan Green is dead.Nobody told me damn.

    Gee I am sick of elitist idiots putting shit on Aussie product.

    Why don’t u migrate to Japan or whereever if they would have u.Lol

    Shit U might have to get off your arse and do some work.LOL.

    Whats with DANMAN the Oxford educated mechanic.LOL.

    Suppose Salesman sells Toyotas.LOL.

  • Andrew M

    Richo,
    where did i say there was anything wrong with building for fans???

    i said holden places fan appeal over engineering.
    i didnt say there was anything wrong with that, and who can knock it from a marketing point of view because it obviously works for them.

    not everyone who owns/buys a vehicle is a “Fan”.
    you really can get “edgy” sometimes mate…..

    the buying public is made up of commuters, fans, enthusists, etc etc.
    as a black and white example,
    toyota build cars for commuters, and holden build cars for fans.
    if you think about it for one minute before you jump the gun and get on the defence,
    the black and white example of toyota and holden proves that not every manufacturer on the planet builds cars for the same audience.

  • Andrew M

    Richo,
    and if you missed the bit before, here it is again.

    i can appreciate what holden offers, and respect what they have achieved.
    i love the aussie product whether it be ford or holden, but for me its just certain things that edge me to be more comfortable with purchasing a falcon, from the better seats to the glove box that doesnt need 2 hands on it to close. the main winner with me as far as the falcon goes is the interior. since thats the place where i have to be when im in command of the damned thing, i wanna make sure its comfortable and enjoyable. (and then there is the obvious one of the awesome I6 engine)

    if for some reason ford never existed, i would find my self easily chosing a holden over the remaining oposition.

  • Falcodore

    I admire the engineering thats gone into this car, am proud of what aussies can do on relatively small budgets but something about the front looks off to me, dunno maybe too many square shapes or something? not sure.

  • dosie

    ummm, has anyone seen the COLOUR of the interior? I don’t care how fast or how much….i could not drive a car that had that interior….

    ughh

  • Evman

    I like the way every bloke that thinks he’s above the average Aussie goes on and on about how only bogans drive Commodores and Falcons. If any of you have ever been to Europe (which, I doubt most of you have) you’ll find the EXACT same fight between BMW and Mercedes fans. But seriously, Australian cars will never be worth any REAL money. I mean come on! Our engineering is nothing compared to Europe really. Wait, how many XY Falcons have been sold for over a million dollars now???

  • jon

    Look I don`t believe everyone who drives a Commodore or Falcon is a bogan, hey I drive one and I don`t consider my self to be one but hell there are some out there driving them and commenting on here. I`m happy enough with my BA RTV ute on gas its cheap it does the job, hey its far from perfect but what dissapoints me about Falcons and Commodores is the quality of my ute is the same as the quality in the sedan and I know, I had a BA XR6 turbo ute which was a disaster and made Ford take it back but they did only if I did a trade on what ever I wanted so I thought yeah the sedan will be better quality but guess what? it really wasn`t. So my negative comments about aussie built cars come from experience and from friends and family who have owned Falcons and Commodores. If the ute wasn`t so cheap to run I probably would not have bought another Aussie built car but hey its used for buisness and for that its good enough.

  • dosie

    again…..has ANYONE seen that interior???

  • http://www.ihatemycar.com.au ihatemycardotcomdotau

    Not bad at all…but still it is just a Commodore

  • topdog

    I think its a good car but thay are ripping there loyal customers off i mean can you honesty say this car is worth more than the cost of 2 R8s i mean its only a few tenths quicker and the fpv falcon is almost as quick for 70k I think if you fatter better rubber on the ford it would be quicker for less than half the price go figuer

  • Frenchie

    Evman

    Actually an XY GTHO Phase 3 was bought at auction for $800,000 a year ago. Not the million but getting there.

  • SamR

    Wow no-one got my Evan Green reference, I must be old.

    Read up about the 1972 Supercar Scare

    The car above is very much like the GTHO of 1972, excessively fast and in today’s context excessively thirsty.
    It’s a 427 for God’s sake!!

  • Richo

    SamR – I got it, I ignored it.

    Andrew M – i personally don’t believe that holden skimp on engineering as you say, i think you will find that the engineering team at Holden are as passionate about their products as any manufacturer anywhere in the world. Holden do a tremendous amount with the resources they are provided by GM. Compare basically all commodores from the VB to the VZ against their counterparts from opel on which they where all based, in EVERY instance the Commodore is far superior to the opel offering, not a bad effort given that the engineering budget provided to Holden has always been much smaller then what GM has given to Opel.

    Yes Holden had 1 billion to develop the VE, but what alot of people to get is that alot of that had to go into the upgrade of the manufacturing facilities at Holden, not all of it was spent on the development of the car! And besides, 1 billion is actually not all that much more then what ford australia spent on the AU Falcon! and look how well that turned out for Ford… So clearly Holden spent their money alot better then Ford did with that car!

    And besides, when your talking about developing a car from the ground up, not a major upgrade, not a new car on an existing platform, but a WHOLE NEW CAR platform and all, $1 billion is actually not all that much compared to what other manufacturers spend! It sounds like alot, but its actually not, merceedes spent $2 billion on the previous C-class!

    So Andrew M, i respectfully dissagree, i think holden’s engineers do a fine job given the resources they are provided with!

  • Richo

    and yes Holden could have spent the money on just a full update of the VZ platform like ford did updating the BF to make the FG, and as they already would have had a donor platform, like Ford, they perhaps would have been able to make their engineering dollar stretch further and provide some of the niceties that the FG has, But with the VE holden went out on a limb and provided themselfs with a future, an engineering base that was all new and could sustain them for many years to come. Ford on the other hand have a car that is very good now, but is not a sustainable business proposition in the long run. No exports, no basis to engineer new models (such as the VE spawning the comaro), basically no future.

    So, from a business point of view, Holden is clearly superior, they just are! Thats something that NONE of the anti-holden blokes can never take away from them (how long have they made Australia’s best selling car for now?)

  • Richo

    and yes Andrew i can get edgy, but i just get frustrated when i put time and effort into giving measure responses based on real information, only to get flamed down by the anti-holden crowd based solely on ignorance and eliteism.

  • James

    Ive said it before and many also.

    For $155K, I would buy about two dozen cars before I even look at this…. thats if I even look at this.

    Buy an SS, spend $10K on it and you get similar results, yet better looking doesnt offend as the “styling” on this.

    A modifed STi and an EVO IX for $155K would be much ideal also.

    How about that monster from Nissan?…. and that killer from BMW…..

    $155K for a “Holden” is not even worth thinking over.

    Just buy an SS and donate the rest to charity.

  • Mr Brooksy

    Richo I agree with the future Holden has carved is better etc. But be careful. The Corolla and Commy dice for the outright sales wins per month. Careful in making unreaserched claims! So it would seem that the Commy has only been the sales winner for short stints.

    If you mean, Large car segment (say so), then thats another story!

    Whats wrong with Holden building cars for fans anyway? You’d have to be stupid not too if it sells them wouldnt you? Thats how you KEEP loyal customers isnt it? I dont understand the logic (or lack thereof) in people complianing about Ford/Holden building cars that certain Aussies want. If you dont build them, what do you end up building… SangYongs?!

    FPV please build the GTHO, or an insane F6!!!!

  • GhisGT

    LOL at the assclowns who never even read the article. THe W427 is speed limited to 270km/h

    In contrast, the old Aussie V8 in the VT Clubsport hit 256km/h at the hands of the Wheels journos back in the day.

    Gotta lauch at the idiots comparing this to the GTR. All of you’s would never even own a GTR, so why the big sook?

  • Ivan

    ChrisGT, I realise that the W427 is limited to 270km/h, but what is its actual top speed?

    And you’re saying that old aussie V8 hit 256km/h back in the days. No disrespect for what the engineers has done but the difference between say 300km/h for W427 to 256km/h isn’t much. I realise that it’s harder to hit higher speed because the drag increases exponentially, but still, better aerodynamics could do the job.

    The only reason I would compare it to the GTR is because it’s the same price range ($155k). And I never said I could buy one, but if I was given 155k to spend on a car, I would spend it on a true supercar killer.

    I’m just saying that what Holden has done is a huge leap over its engineering, but it’s still short of the guys in Europe and Japan for that matter.

  • GhisGT

    Look at the base HSV had to work with? It was a four door, family car and with all things considered, I recon they did pretty well. Remember, this thing could easily tow a boat from Perth to Sydney, with a wife and three kids with a boot load full of luggage with ease.

    While the GTR is the better sports car, the W427 is easier to life with in ‘real life’ duties. Not every one cuts 200 laps around a race track, day in day out.

    By the way my previous comments weren’t aimed at directly at you.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Hi everyone.. Thanks for the insults yesterday..
    The point I was trying to make was, well kinda lost. Does anyone in this thread actually have indusrty experience to back up there opinions.. It is just made up or does the fact they suscribe to wheels and own two cars make them an expert?
    I cut and pasted an ad I found showing a GTSR for sale way less than Richo said… I guess the format of this website makes it very hard to get a point across.. The internet equivelent of road rage happens here…

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    Realcars, No I do not sell Toyotas. I do run several new car franchises though hence the name, and i have been in the motor game for a long time. Why is it people on this blog have a desire to have others come around to their way of thinking. Get over it. Here is a fact, GM is dying. Making cars for fans are they, well they need to sell crap loads of them if they are to survive so wouldn’t they want everyone want to own one ?

  • Bavarian Missile

    Evman your right,I wonder how many HOs sold for over the million mark too.Just because they weren’t sold at action doesnt mean they dont get sold privately,one here in the West was offered 1.3 mill at the GT Nationals last year,he refused the offer.

    I dont get why anyone wants to do 270 clicks in this country,I would prefer to have different rear end gears so I can get to 100 faster than a top speed,thats much more impressive, low down grunt………..yes please!

  • GhisGT

    The Salesman…

    The entire world wide auto industry is dieing, not just GM. Open the other eye.

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    @ GhisGT,

    India, China, Korea all thriving.

    GM, Ford dying.

    Google it 

  • WVB

    Hey SamR, refer blog#9.

  • Bret

    GM & ford have a pressence in India, China & Korea!

    Clearly the “Salesperson” doesn’t sell them so he’ll talk them down.

    You are showing the same lack of balance in some of your comments as the SpammerDog Dingo.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Bret et all.
    The salesman and i have very similar industry experience so i will back him %100. GM and Ford seem to make cars (and particularly HSV/FPV) that reflect the values of a past Australian society. not the current or the future. The forward looking,tech savy, Japanese dominate this country sales wise and will for about the next ten years.. ever wonder why that is.. really thought about why..?
    A clue.. It’s keeping most people happy, most of the time..

  • http://faster DanMan

    ‘Whats with DANMAN the Oxford educated mechanic.LOL.’

    Lol. ‘my gosh old chap, perish the thought.. I am an eton man through and though. still chin up, bally ho.’
    /said in the voice of John Cleese.

    I think that was a backhanded compliment, Realcars.

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    Bret, do you really think i did not know. Do i have to explain to you how importing and exporting work and the who’s who and where they come from and where they go of all brands in the world. Where do Holden source most of their products from? Yes they have a presence, TATA has a presence in Australia, so does Ssangyong, and Proton, and soon GWM (great wall motors) and Chery, hell, even Skoda is back. Got anything else champ?

  • Bret

    The Salesman,
    What makes you think that you have anymore knowledge than, and can “explain” anything to anyone in particular?
    Bottom line is your posts reek of pro-korean and anti Ford/Holden because it supports your own personall commercial activities.
    Have opinions and quote facts by all means, but don’t confuse the two.
    No wonder you’re at the bottom of the food chain – sales. Heck even if you’re management, you’re still “sales”. I guess not everyone is bright enough to learn the skills needed to get a real job!

  • http://faster DanMan

    Bret (with one T?)
    ohhh so bitchy. What the hell is pro korean (i’m procreati’n haha) would you buy a Korean mobile phone or an American one? A korean 60″ LCD TV or an American one?
    Also if he is a sales manager he is on a higher income and has more ‘real world’ power than you will ever have in your, maybe i’m guessing manafacturing (night shelf stacker?) job. Good day to you sir..

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    Thanks Bret,
    Yes I have to be more knowledgeable than most because I live in sales everyday and must know as must as possible so I can give the correct information to prospective buyers. I am not pro or con to any brand in particular. The Koreans and the Chinese are becoming the worlds factory for more brands than just their own. Sales is one of the oldest professions in the world and I pride myself on my ability to meet my clients at any level. My customer satisfaction has seen me awarded many over seas trips and incentives. I could never earn as much money as I do in a REAL JOB. I am not just a salesman (Manager) I am also a husband, a father to two boys, a son a brother an uncle a neighbor and a human just like you. Plus sales moved up from the bottom of the food chain when terrorism became a business. LOL

  • http://faster DanMan

    Well..
    Thats probably the best post ever put on this site…
    Never get into an argument with a really good salesperson. We have the levers to your mind and are so good with understanding the human condition we can really mess with your head. You wont like us when we are angry!

  • topdog

    Pro korean i thought most holdens were korean

  • Realcars

    Agree Bret. These guys run down Holden and Ford then wonder why they get a spray.

    Only companies that design a local product.

    If a so called “Bogan” wants to spend 155k on the ultimate Commodore good luck to him.

    Yes,lets all become importers that will certainly see Australia prosper. An economy of tertiary service industries fantastic.

    High tech manufacturing defines a first world economy.

  • Realcars

    What like walking around the corner to pretend to ask the boss if u can offer more for a trade.LOL.

    I thought Dan the Man was an Oxford Educated mechanic.LOL.

    Yeah and good salesmen are usually arseholes too.LOL

  • http://faster DanMan

    ‘I thought Dan the Man was an Oxford Educated mechanic.LOL.’

    I think there’s a compliment in there somewhere.. Is that because i can Articulate my knowledge and point of veiw about cars really well…?

    Oh yeah, people that really help you purchase consumer products that satisfy your needs and wants, saving you money in the long and short term, are ‘arseholes’?
    Hmmm i guess both are very usefull and under appreciated!

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    Sound like some one has been screwed before. Still a little raw is it mate? Well better luck next time.
    Leaver pulled, now stand back for the spray, here it comes.

  • Realcars

    Actually I quite enjoy dealing with smart arse salesman.LOL

    It’s fun winding them up.

    As if anyone with half a brain relies on the advice of a Salesman, Dan the Man.LOL.

  • Andrew M

    Richo,
    BM just nailed my whole point right from the start.
    when i knocked brooksy for saying “great imagination holden”,
    i mean in the way as BM words it…….
    QUOTE……..
    “I dont get why anyone wants to do 270 clicks in this country,I would prefer to have different rear end gears so I can get to 100 faster than a top speed,thats much more impressive”.

    and on the other stuff, i give up.

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    I have met a million people like you, I know just who you are, you can be led with out even knowing it. Do me a favor and rent a movie called Suckers. I think we are all more interested in talking about the cars than reading your slander, don’t be mad because you don’t understand all that is being said here. And take some of your own advice.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Yeah or if you understand the dialogue go for something cerebral (not an x-men) and get Glengarry Glen Ross!
    Best sales movie ever and an incredible cast.
    Oh yeah as you may have noticed, you cant really wind me up. ‘you aint got the time or the skills to shine me on,not in the real world and not on the net’
    Meh.
    Didn’t this start about something to do with commodores?

  • Realcars

    Done a good job of it thus far.LOL

  • Realcars

    So Dan the Man and Salesman are both insecure Salesmen.LOL

    How does it feel to be part of a profession?LOL that contributes nothing to the greater good?

  • http://faster DanMan

    Well i’m off for the night..
    which of the 39 cars should i drive home tonight?
    descisions, descisions!!
    Hmmmm. What i do every day, you do once every 4 years. thats gotta suck.
    over and out!
    (until tom.)

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice Motor Head

    Realcars, you have been smashed, give up, smoke another cigarette, roll over your fat missus and then dream of a life that could have been. What do you do that contributes to the greater good? Do you work for green peace? We all have make money some how, and i bet they make a bucket load more than you. We all know who is insecure here. People like you are not wanted on this site, please go to wheels where you can mingle with your kind. BOGANS!!!!!!!

  • Realcars

    Don’t think so Motor Head.

    A couple of idiot salesman enter a COMMODORE thread with derogatory rubbish about Holden and I show then up for what they are.

    U sound like a real rocket Scientist Motor Head!

    I bet I’m up there with them as far as income and actually produce something rather than inane comments about an Australian Icon and don’t have to sell my soul to do so.LOL

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice Motor Head

    The only thing you have shown is that you don’t like it when someone tells the truth about Holden. I don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see that. Almost all of your Holden’s or Holden parts come from overseas, their is nothing Aussie about it worth bragging about. Are you going to show up everyone who has rubbished this car on this blog. You have alot of work ahead of you.

  • Realcars

    Real class acts those salesman guys advocating movies that deal with ripping consumers off. Delightful.

    Hope I don’t get one of these wankers when I buy my next new Falcon ute!LOL.

  • Realcars

    The dynamic sales duet went further than rubbishing just this model.

    I respect REAL Salesmen but not these pair of conceited pricks.LOL.

    Apparently they are that “SMART” they can “play” with our minds don’t u know?LOL.

    They don’t have any qualms about heaping shit on some poor bugger packing shelves either in their state of delusional grandeur.LOL

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice Motor Head

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I have read all that has been said, i don’t blame these guys for defending themselves. So i am giving a shout out and three cheers to Danman and Salesamn, well done guys, you deserve all the awards you can get if you have to deal with people like Mr. Realcars everyday.

  • Realcars

    Just hope they don’t play with your mind Motor Head or are u one of them too?LOL

    By the sound of it it wouldn’t take much effort on their part.LOL.

    Anyway I am off to roll my fat wife over and no doubt Motor Head you will be off to play with your hand as usual I suspect.

    Remember Motorhead if u sit on it long enough u can pretend it’s someone else. How’s that for a tip for nothing Motor Head?LOL

  • Brett

    I’m laughing at the amount of people here who argue that this is a bogan’s car. I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve never met a bogan with $150k to spend on a car. A lot of this is spawned by jealousy. Frustration at going into your own garage and climbing into a boring Toyota everday. Don’t project your inadequacies onto motoring enthusiasts.

  • http://Citroen Boggy

    I have been selling prestige cars for over 13 years and there are alot of good honest people in this industry dealing with the general public on a daily basis and really trying to satisfy their needs and desires working long hours with often small returns, it is a more competitative market than ever before and we are i believe working harder than ever to earn a living, i guess like most indutries in the current climate “except mining ” so i guess what im saying is how about taking it a bit easy on us we are just trying to make a living like everyone. Cheers.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Well said BOGGY.
    Selling any kind of top end consumer durable can really change your idea’s of materialistic value. As recently as today I helped a couple get out of a really dangerous 90′s car that was quite unroadworthy Into A nice safe new small SUV. At delivery it was like they were picking up a Ferrari they were so happy.That feels good.. There is long hours and hard work in this job but sometimes it is very satisfying… All for the princly sum of $50 commision….
    (dont feel sorry for me, some comm’s are awesome!)

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    You will never change the opinion of the Bret’s and Realcars of the world. Well said Boggy. This can be a tiresome job with different outcomes on profit every time. But every day after work I still go to my two story home on the lake, drink a few beers, play with my kids and maybe tonight I will fire up the BBQ. It is a hard enough life, for us.

  • Bret

    The Salesman,
    Mate I haven’t been involved in this ongoing argument, why the BS above? I’ve deliberately stayed out, but you want to drag me back in.

    All I pointed out was the shallowness of your posts that support your product, whilst openly attempting to run down some others.
    You make the claim that Ford & GM are dying, yet then go on to quote countries that both have manufacturing interests in (as opposed to your narrow focus reply on “sales”).
    When you get “caught out” you shpuld just cop it sweet and move on, but no, you and the semi-literate DanMan come out both barrels with the abuse.

  • http://caradive.com.au Boss 351

    155k for a Holden dunny door i don’t think so what a waist of money give me a Ferrari any day for that kind of dollars
    But i know some fools will pay that!

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au David Twomey

    For those wanting to know what this car will really do, suggestions from those who should know is about 330km/h, unrestrained! Unless you disable the fuel cutout you’ll never, never know!

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    Bret, You said

    Bottom line is your posts reek of pro-korean and anti Ford/Holden because it supports your own personall commercial activities

    and

    No wonder you’re at the bottom of the food chain – sales. Heck even if you’re management, you’re still “sales”. I guess not everyone is bright enough to learn the skills needed to get a real job!

    You call this staying out of an augment. Nothing I have said has contradicted the other. GM and Ford dying is a statement of fact, Most of Holden’s products come from Korea (fact) More to the point Commodore as we know it will cease to exist as an Australian (mostly) built car, am I happy about that, no, not really. I do have an opinion on all things automotive, if you don’t like it, fine. Don’t attack me directly unless you seek a response.

  • http://faster DanMan

    Oh no i am posting after salesperson… again.
    hehe Bret, question, do you work for IBM?
    I have to be wrong with this guess but if i am right, my god it would be funny.

  • spam

    $155 k for a crummerdore you got to be joking , piece of junk , worth bugger all in 3 years .

    morons, fuel efficient cars are the future ,not dino’s

  • http://porsche Millatime

    Great car, shame about the money grab…

  • DanMan

    I am a gay, and i am on love with The Salesman.

  • http://AustralianCarAdvice The Salesman

    I am not gay, but i slept with a bloke that was once……

  • http://faster DanMan

    OMG i just read what that ghoster said hehehe.
    DanMan Says:
    September 20th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
    my god didn’t someone have a boring saturday night…
    Hmmm who else posted comments around the same time?? let me see..

  • Josh18

    I admitt the newest HSV the w427 is an icon to holden fans, this car also sets a new performance benchmark. BUT it should be ALOT quicker I mean 270km/h is that all??? the old 6 litre maloo broke that record with mark skaife as the driver. so shouldnt a car with an extra 1 litre of cubic centremeters and another 75kw on the maloo. BUT now holden has limited all hsvs and holdens to 250km/h WTF is with that. BUT YES THE VE IS A VERY NICE CAR. W427 RULES JUST GET THAT THING ON A STRAIGHT!!! OHH AND GIVE IT TO ME.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Josh18,

    BOGAN!!!!!!

  • Slick

    I’m more impressed that Aussies have 150k to spend.

    It’s there money, They will buy them, And they will enjoy them, All others that sook and moan can’t afford them and it’s jealousy that drives there dislikes.

  • Bob

    $155,000 for a Holden!!!! Ya got to be kidding me. Just an over-rated Commodore with extra plastic stuck on it

  • Slick

    Neal or bod ? That is one silly comment.

  • wookie

    how can any company whether its ford or holden call these so called supercars are australian,when ford uses usa motors,or holden uses either chevy or so called monaro with the name pontiac what is it.useing a usa 427 corvette motor now is this australian no so how do we get the name called made in australia.to many cons

  • Wheelnut

    Wookie – It’s the same as if you had a German Dad and an American Mum [for example] who both met in Australia; fell in love and had you…
    Despite the fact that half of the DNA what you are made up of came from the USA or Europe you were “made” in Australia and therefore; considered to be Australian.. Because until your mum and dad came together you were nothing you didn’t exist did you?

    Sure both Ford and Holden use a number of parts from Overseas including engines; but they come together in Australia to create some of the best cars this country has ever produced..

    Even Jeremy Clarkson; who has access to a range of European Sports Cars had to admit that he was impressed with the power and performance of the Aussie built Sports Sedan [VX-R8].

  • Wheelnut

    And in case you’re wondering Wookie; in relation to the W427: it’s Dad is Australian – as Holden was established / founded in Australia….
    and it’s mum is American – as that’s where the engine comes from and without the engine a car is nothing but a heap of metal.
    Which came together in Australia – so it too is Australian

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut, Gm and Ford are not traded on ASX, so it’s not australian!!

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut Says: “Even Jeremy Clarkson; who has access to a range of European Sports Cars had to admit that he was impressed with the power and performance of the Aussie built Sports Sedan [VX-R8].”

    But he also said it was moronic, and he wouldn’t have one!!

  • Wheelnut

    Thomas79 – There are a number of Australian companies that don’t trade on the ASX yet manufacture/produce/assemble things here; some are even exporters and their products wear the Australian Made logo…. so what’s your point?

    I mean you can’t buy shares in “Wheelnut” on the ASX either so does that mean that I’m not Australian even though I was born here.. in Adelaide – the home of Holden?

  • Wheelnut

    Thing is Tomas79 – there are a lot more people willing to pay $150K for the W427 which its essentially nothing more than a tarted up SS..
    than there are willing to spend $150K on the LX470 4×4 which is essentially just a Tarted up Landcruiser..
    even though the Lexus supposedly has better build quality etc….. [90 W427s Made [so far] = 90 W427s sold and advanced orders/deposits for the other 337 units]

  • BK

    No such thing as a Aussie car here in australia. Holden dont even come close to that and never have been. Current falcon is more aussie than the comodore. Without GM there be no holden.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut, you’re not too bright are you??

    Wheelnut Says: “there are a lot more people willing to pay $150K for the W427 which its essentially nothing more than a tarted up SS..than there are willing to spend $150K on the LX470 4×4 which is essentially just a Tarted up Landcruiser..”

    No1) I can guarantee you there there have been many more LX470 sold world wide, then the W427!! So your statement is just plain stupid!!

    No2) the LX470 doesn’t require a limited production to sell at that Price!!

    No3)WTF would you bring up the Lexus LX470 for??? There you go with your unhealthy toyota fascination again!! You are forgetting not everybody is fixated on brands such as your self!!

    Wheelnut Says:
    “I mean you can’t buy shares in “Wheelnut” on the ASX either so does that mean that I’m not Australian even though I was born here.. in Adelaide – the home of Holden?”

    People are not traded on the ASX, so whats your point?

  • Wheelnut

    Well you made it sound as though unless companies are listed on the ASX they can’t be considered to be Australian.. and as many of the companies that aren’t listed on the ASX but manufacture/export goods are private companies run by individuals families or trusts that often use family names etc such as Wheelnut trading as —— Pty Ltd

    As for me bringing up the LX470;

    This is an Australian website and this article os about an Australian built car therefore youd expect the majority of comments to relate to the Australian market
    in the same way UK sites relate more to the UK market and USA sites relate more to the American market etc..

    and in case you haven’t noticed the W427 is only sold in Oz – so given that I am a Holden Fan and You are a Toyo-phile I compared it to the demand in Oz for one of your luxury cars.. the LX470 – which; [despite the fact that they are two different types of cars built for different purposes] are in the same price bracket as one another..

    However as a Toyota fan you should be used to comparing apples with oranges given that you like compare the Aurion to a Commodore/Falcon or a TRD Hilux to a Maloo etc

  • Wheelnut

    There you have it everyone…. according to Tomas79…. those of you who like to call themselves or are proud to be an Australian must register their name and personal details on the ASX; otherwise you are NOT Australian!

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut, do you really think you are providing a valid counter argument, or you’re just grasping at straws??

    Wheelnut says:” you made it sound as though unless companies are listed on the ASX they can’t be considered to be Australian.. and as many of the companies that aren’t listed on the ASX but manufacture/export goods are private companies run by individuals families or trusts that often use family names etc such as Wheelnut trading as —— Pty Ltd”

    GM, and Ford are not “pty ltd”, but are traded at NYSE, hence they are American Companies, so why even waste time brining it up?!! You are definitely grasping at straws here!!

    Wheelnut says “and in case you haven’t noticed the W427 is only sold in Oz”

    I did notice, but it was you that said that more people a willing to buy a W427, then a LX470.
    Umm…regardless LX470 has been on sale in Australia since 1998, And I bet if I consulted VFACTS it would show that it has outsold W427’s limited productions many times over….
    So please, don’t embarrass your self further, by brining it up!!
    I won’t even mention that RRP of 110K-125K is not quite 150K+, and that the LX470 not even sold anymore….

    Wheelnut says “I am a Holden Fan and You are a Toyo-phile”

    Obviously, you love it when I have to repeat myself.
    But no, I’m no Toyota-phile, but I do drive Toyota Prado, and I really do love it!!
    I’ve had a Jeep, 3 fords, and a mazda beforehand…. My mind isn’t clouded like yours with brand loyalty!! I buy what ever suits my needs/wants at the time!! Regardless of what I have said in the past, If I needed to buy a value for money family sedan right now, I’d definitely get the FG XR6 Turbo… And if Ford ever gets a v6 or FWD platform, it genuinely will be an Australian collectable classic, not an artificially generated limited production classic like the w427…

    You on the otherhand seem to have a Holden, And Rest of the World VS Toyota mentality!!
    You seem to have a rather unhealthy fixation on Toyota…I’m afraid if Toyota was a person, it would probably end up in murder!!

    Wheelnut says” However as a Toyota fan you should be used to comparing apples with oranges given that you like compare the Aurion to a Commodore/Falcon or a TRD Hilux to a Maloo etc”

    That’s just stupid, I don’t care for the aurion, it is you that keeps on comparing the two!!
    Also, if you don’t remember you were the one comparing the TRD Hilux to the Maloo since they both considered “performance cars”!! I was against it!! A HSV Colorado/Rodeo VS TRD Hilux would be more accurate if they existed…

    Wheelnut Says: “There you have it everyone…. according to Tomas79…. those of you who like to call themselves or are proud to be an Australian must register their name and personal details on the ASX; otherwise you are NOT Australian!”

    Um, you on drugs wheelnut?? I would never say something as stupid as that!!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    TRD Hilux compared to HSV Maloo……what a bizarre comparison (Ummmmm not so!)

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    My mind is not clouded by brand loyalty……99% on here are but!

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Tomas79]: Wheelnut, Gm and Ford are not traded on ASX, so it’s not Australian!!

    Please Explain? this article is about the HOLDEN Special Vehicle W427; not a GM W427

    I was responding to Wookies question as to how a Holden can be considered Australian – Its Australian because the company that makes them is in Australia and the cars are assembled [using local and overseas components]in Austrlia

    Sure Holden is owned by an American Company However it The Commodore and its derivatives are made here in Australia and therefore Australian Made.

    BTW: HSV/HRT – its owned/operated by Tom Walkinshaw Racing Australia [just as FPV/FPR is owned operated by Prodrive Australia] who have an agreement with Holden to suplly AUSTRALIAN MADE Commodores on which their products are based – in the Same way Peter Brock and HDT did in the 80s

  • Wheelnut

    Tomas79; Back when the TRD Hilux was released Car Advice did a test drive and wrote a subsequent article on its features how it performed.. which they posted on this website.. as they do with every other car

    It featured a Photograph of a grey TRD Hilux on a sand dune on a beach.

    Below the article where “car enthusiasts” can write their comments there was one from you which said “Look a Hilux ute off road / on the beach…. where’s the Maloo?”

    I then came on and said that you logically compare the two as they aren’t direct rivals.. the Hiluxes direct rival is either a Rodeo or Triton the Maloos direct rival is the Pursuit. they are two different vehicles built for different purposes aimed at different markets – so it was you that compared Apples with Oranges.

    I doubt very few who were looking at a TRD Hilux would look at a Maloo and vice versa.

    As for me having a Holden vs the rest of the world attitude. NO I like cars from all over the world -infact I drive an 02 Subaru Impreza RS
    I just find it hard to believe why people either criticise or don’t support our local car/automotive industry.. because without it our economy is virtually stuffed.. sure there’s the mining boom but how long will that go for?

    You don’t necessarily have to buy a Falcon or a Commodore [even though that would help] just be proud of what the both car companies can do with the resources and the funding they have given the relatively small size of the market that they compete in compared to the international companies.

    Fact remains the W427 is built in Australia and is therefore; Australian Made – end of story

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Wheelnut…..you might drive a Subaru but your Holden blood shines in “all” your comments quite deep and strong. Hows about you drop the red blood and have car blood (like all should).

  • Wheelnut

    I was merely pointing out that the W-427 is made by HOLDEN Special Vehicles who base their cars on HOLDEN commodores; which are assembled in AUSTRALIA by HOLDEN which is an AUSTRALIAN Company… It’s made in AUSTRALIA – AUSTRALIAN MADE ergo AUSTRALIAN Supercar

    If it had a Toyota or Nissan Badge on it itr would be referred to as a Japanese Supercar..If it had a BMW or AMerc badge it would be calles a German Supercar as thats where the company that makes it is based. However; the HSV badge indicates that its an “Australian Supercar” as Holden/HSV are an Australian based car manufacturer

  • BK

    gee wheel nut are u trying to say HSV , holden and what ever that brand comes under is aussie all the way. You better think about it again. I think u are wrong there again. Well done Thomas79

  • Bavarian Missile

    BK …..please explain,?so what is it ? Where is it made ?

    Tomas 79 hahahaha,that has to be one of the most stupid comments ever made on this site,Holden not Australian ! Your not born here so does that make you not an Australian ?

  • BK

    holden dont manufacturer every single part for there cars. Holden have never made ever part for there cars. Holden dont have the tech to produce all there cars. Holden dont want australian made parts on there cars. No GM and no holden

  • Bavarian Missile

    Tomas79 Says:
    November 22nd, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Wheelnut, GM and Ford are not traded on ASX, so it’s not australian!!

    GM Don’t make the W-427 Holden do well Holden Special Vehicles to be more precise both companies were founded/established in Australia

    Show me a [modern] car in the world which actually wears a GM Badge? There’s Chevrolet Buick Pontiac Oldsmobile Vauxhall Opel and Holden all of which are Owned by GM. Yet as far as I am aware there isn’t a make around today known as the GM “?”

    That is GM isn’t a recognised Marque it’s just a Parent Company who own various car manufacturers/companies in the same way that Fuji Heavy Industries own Subaru and PSA own Citroen/Peugeot etc.

    BTW: Tomas79 you contradicted yourself [again]; because you said

    Quote [Tomas79 Nov23rd 1:20am ]: “…. the FG is the best value for money Family Sedan particularly the XR6…. if Ford ever gets a V6 or FWD platform, it genuinely will be an Australian collectable classic.”

    The Falcon is made by Ford.. but as Ford isn’t listed on the ASX it can’t be considered to be Australian either can it?

  • BK

    Bavarian Missle

    So what is a 100% aussie made car. You know it all.
    Good one Thomas79

  • Wheelnut

    There isn’t one – there wouldn’t be a car available today where all of its components are made in the country where the car is assembled.

    Corvettes uses PBR Brakes does that mena that its Australian Made?.. No they are still regarded as Made in the USA
    Even some Porsches use Hollinger Gearboxes does that mean that they are Australian Made?.. No they are regarded as being made in Germany.. All because of the Badge or Marque they wear.

  • Wheelnut

    Answer this then BK or Tomas79

    There are cars all around the world that use either Brembo Brakes; Pirelli Tyres; Recaro Seats.. does that mean that they are Italian?

    Lamborghini is part of Audi/Volkswagen which are owned by Porsche.. does that mean the Gallardo is actually German?

  • Wheelnut

    Or when you fill up with Shell does that make your car Dutch yet when you fill up with Mobil or Caltex your car somehow becomes American?

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    well of course it does……..Duuurrrrr

  • BK

    wheel nuts

    So what is a 100% european produced car
    So what is a 100% American produced car
    So what is a 100% Asian produced car
    So what is a 100% African produced car
    So what is a 100% Antartican produced car

    Wheelnut Says:
    November 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
    I was merely pointing out that the W-427 is made by HOLDEN Special Vehicles who base their cars on HOLDEN commodores; which are assembled in AUSTRALIA by HOLDEN which is an AUSTRALIAN Company… It’s made in AUSTRALIA – AUSTRALIAN MADE ergo AUSTRALIAN Supercar.
    What a pisser this is by weheelnuts. Holden dont have nothing to do with producing HSV. They dont even come close to even suppling the wheel nuts to these cars. You are one of these people that beleive that holden is still all aussie owned and made. No GM = no Holden

  • BK

    wheel nuts

    Wheelnut Says:
    November 23rd, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Corvettes uses PBR Brakes does that mena that its Australian Made?.. No they are still regarded as Made in the USA
    Even some Porsches use Hollinger Gearboxes does that mean that they are Australian Made?.. No they are regarded as being made in Germany.. All because of the Badge or Marque they wear

    So are you completelty sure corvettes are all made in USA.
    So are you completelty sure Porsches are all made in Germany.
    So are you completelty sure SHELL come from Dutch
    So are you completelty sure Mobil and Caltex are all made in USA.
    Where did u actully come from Wheelnuts???

  • Bavarian Missile

    I think you have summed it up; Wheelnut in the most simpletons terms ,although I’m not sure they quite understand it [still]!

    Shall we start on where other manufactures obtain their components from,I mean apart from Thailand !

    What idiot in this world honestly believes that all the components of a manufactured car doesn’t originate from that country it deems its design rights from!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Quote [BK]: “….Holden DON’T have NOTHING to do with producing HSV. They don’t even come close to even supplying the wheelnuts”

    Noce one BK you just contradicted yourself…. the word DON’T is “negative” as is the word NOTHING there by making it a Double-Negative which equates to a Positive [a negative plus a negative equals a positive] which means that Holden have something to do with producing these cars

    Particularly as they make the Commodores on which HSV’s are based.. If Holden didn’t have ANYTHING to do with making HSVs why then does HSV have the word HOLDEN in their name?

  • BK

    well done wheel nut u finally understand now after all these decades that nothing is all aussie made or euro made or african made. Your arguments with thomas just dont make sense. Im sure there are others here that think like you to. Let me know if you know some.

  • Tomas79

    BK thanks for your support!!
    These muppets are really grasping at straws, they have no valid counter argument to add!!
    What needed to be said, has been said!! So lets not waste time on them!! Time for Caradvice to clean up this blog again….

  • BK

    bavarian missile,

    its a simple answer to the HSV question. Holden dont have technology to make HSV cars. HSV is part of TWR. So u trying to tell me that Holden does have everything to do with HSV. I doubt that. And I bet TWR get all there parts from all over the world to put these cars together.
    Also remember that GM tell holden what to do here in AUST.

  • Wheelnut

    BK – I never said that HSVs Commodores or any Holden for that matter is 100% completely Aussie Made

    If you read my initial response to “Wookie” you would see that I said the W427 is an Australian Made Car because it is Assembled by a Car Manufacturing Company that was Established/Founded and Happens to be in Australia.
    People depict where a car comes from according to the Badge and the iconic Holden Badge is associated with Australia just as Toyota is with Japan and BMW is with Germany.
    That is All!!!!

  • BK

    wheel nuts

    read below what you say about HSV cars. There cars are built from bits and pieces all over the world you turkey not AUSTRALIA. If u still think there all aussie then u r a turkey like yu other mates in here.

    Wheelnut Says:
    November 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
    I was merely pointing out that the W-427 is made by HOLDEN Special Vehicles who base their cars on HOLDEN commodores; which are assembled in AUSTRALIA by HOLDEN which is an AUSTRALIAN Company… It’s made in AUSTRALIA – AUSTRALIAN MADE ergo AUSTRALIAN Supercar

    Wheelnut Says:
    November 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
    And in case you’re wondering Wookie; in relation to the W427: it’s Dad is Australian – as Holden was established / founded in Australia….
    and it’s mum is American – as that’s where the engine comes from and without the engine a car is nothing but a heap of metal.
    Which came together in Australia – so it too is Australian

  • Tomas79

    BK, so true…
    I don’t know the exact figure, but i believe some engineer working for Holden said that over 70% of the parts on the Wheelnut’s ALL AUSSIE VE are made in Korea!!

    Also wasn’t the ALL AUSSIE FJ Holden based on a failed U.S platform??

    As for cars trading as GM… Holden is actual “GM Holden Ltd”!

  • BK

    So where the hell do abos get involved with Holdens. Aint Torana and Monaro aboriginal names. Do abos make HSV parts. Do abos own a percentage of holden and or HSV. Told u wheel nut its from all over the world.

  • Wheelnut

    It appears Tomas79 that I am too having to repeat myself as you don’t seem to get it…..

    I know that Holden Comodores and HSV’s are made up of components from all over the world the Engine is from the USA etc but the Car is ASSEMBLED HERE therefore; its Australian Made therefore regarded as an AUSTRALIAN Supercar.

    The GT-R is ASSEMBLED in JAPAN [of local and imported parts] but is still regarded as a JAPANESE Supercar
    The F360 is ASSEMBLED in ITALY [of local and imported parts] but is still regarded as an ITALIAN Supercar
    THE M3 is ASSEMBLED in GERMANY [of local and imported parts] but is still regarded as a GERMAN Supercar

    Get it?….. I Doubt it

    As for the the VE being made made up of 70% imported parts.. The VE is approximately 60-70% locally made parts [as is the Falcon] – and that info is from Rod Keane who is the Factory Manager at Elizabeth.

  • Wheelnut

    I didn’t ask if there was a car trading as “GM” as I said GM is merely a company that owns a number of car manufacturers.

    I asked if you can name a [modern] car that specifically wears a “GM” Badge? in the same way that an XC-70 for example wears a “Volvo” badge or an Impreza wears a “Subaru” badge

  • Bavarian Missile

    Tomas and BK stop splitting straws,its Australias first Supercar so get over it for F..k sake! Geezzzzzzzzzzz.

  • pious

    Is there some kind of criteria for a “supercar”? I would have thought 0 – 100 in less than 4 seconds, maybe 4.5 at the outside, and a top speed of over 300kph. Can anyone tell me if there is a standard accepted? By the way, good argument, guys. Classic, on so many levels…

  • Bavarian Missile

    Pious seems the term Supercar can be used in a variety of ways.

    ” Supercar is a term generally used for high-end sports cars, whose performance is superior to that of its contemporaries. It has been defined specifically as “a very expensive, fast or powerful car with a centrally located engine”, and stated in more general terms: “it must be very fast, with sporting handling to match”, “it should be sleek and eye-catching” and its price should be “one in a rarefied atmosphere of its own”,but the correct usage of the term is both subjective and disputed, especially amongst enthusiasts.

  • Dlr1

    Pious, interesting question. Some people throw the tag “supercar” around in the same way others use the term “supermodel” to describe a thin semi attractive woman who has had their picture taken a few times. Sadly these days there is no accepted criteria for either to attain that status.

    My thoughts are…

    Must be the pinnacle model of any manufacturer, not one of its mainstream production cars… as the F40 or 959 was as opposed to a 348 or 911.
    Must be an uncompromising performance car, not a hotted up version of a lesser sibling. To me this excludes the M3, W427, Audi RS6 ect. Great cars but not supercars.
    As for the 0-100 time. 4 seconds seems to be this decades benchmark, as was under 5 seconds in the early 90′s. But achieving this alone isn’t enough.

    Interested to hear anybody else’s thoughts…

  • pious

    Thanks for that! I suspect also that what was a supercar 5 years ago wouldnt be today. 270kph is a little ho hum from a 7 litre v8, though faster than I’ll ever drive.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Quote [Pious]: “I suspect also that what was a Supercar 5 years ago wouldn’t be today.”

    It took some of the worlds best car manufacturers 10 years to break the record as the World’s Fastest [Supercar which was set by the BMW/McLaren F1 Road Car back in 1998

    The LS-7 engine in the W-427 is Naturally Aspirated and is the same as the Corvette which Broke the Nurburgring lap record a couple of months ago.
    HSV got the power/speed through recalibrating the ECU However; that would increase if they were to add a supercharger – as it is in the new ZR-1 Corvette.

  • pious

    Yep, the xj220 got 220 mph (350kph?) out of a turbo six in 1992. That’d still be a supercar now. 250 seems to be de rigueur for a good performance sedan these days but you dont see too many saloons that do over 280 (aside from the Audis I cant think of any). Maybe the holden is a “supersedan”…there you go – a new word…

  • Mark Greenburg

    The McLaren F1 record was set in 1994, not 1998.

  • BK

    hey wheel nut you still think that a car that is assembled in australia like HSV and holden is all Aussie. Theres a big difference between assembled and made here.
    You also say if its assembled here than its made here. Man you getting all mixed up in what is made here and what is assembeled here. Its gotta be made first before assembled. GM still tell Holden how to make and assemble there cars. XYGTHO phase 111 first ever supercar in Oz. Made in USA.

    Wheelnut Says:
    November 24th, 2008 at 9:46 am
    I know that Holden Comodores and HSV’s are made up of components from all over the world the Engine is from the USA etc but the Car is ASSEMBLED HERE therefore; its Australian Made therefore regarded as an AUSTRALIAN Supercar.

  • Wheelnut

    I never said that the Commodore is All Australian – Uts built here by a car manufacturer that is not only based here but also originated from Australia.. The Holden badge and the Holden name signifies that its Australian and sold on the Australian market therefore its Australian

    As for GM still telling Holden how to make and assemble there cars.

    Holden; went to GM with the plan to build the new VE commodore after rejecting the Pontiac Sigma platform.
    They had sketches of what the the First all Australian Designed Holden Commodore would look like along with a list of features the car would have including engines gearboxes suspension and brakes etc.. once it was given the go ahead Holden were given a budget with which the decisions as to how the car should be made etc were up to them – they did the R&D; they chose the robots etc [which took up more than half the $1bn budget] they decided the release schedule [sedan/statesman-ute-wagon]….

    GM merely approve or reject projects based on factors such as: cost; the time it would take to recover cost; and flexibility [can the car/platform be used on other cars in other markets [Camaro] as ALL cars these days are built to a cost/price

  • Wheelnut

    There is a big difference between assembled and being made here….

    Assembly [noun]: an assembling or coming together of a number of persons, usually for a particular/specific purpose: [as in school assembly]….
    Past Tense is Assembled

    Made [verb]:
    1. produced by making, preparing, etc., in a particular way/process (often used in combination].
    2. artificially produced [Man Made].
    3. invented or made-up: [to tell stories about oneself].
    4. prepared, esp. from several ingredients [or components - be it from here or from overseas]

    They mean the same thing as the are the coming together of various ingredients resources components materials etc in order to form one whole unit.. either a group of people or as in this case a car.

  • Wheelnut

    At the Sydney 2000 Olympics athletes from all over the world ASSEMBLED in AUSTRALIA.

    The VE Comodore is MADE in Australia by Holden using a range of components from all over the world.

    The components like the athletes come to gether in Australia for a common specific purpose and it all happens/happened in Australia

  • Duck

    ^^^^^^^^^^So the VE Holden Commodore was the first car (commodore) that GM-H Holden could make all by themselves without being told to do “this and that” and intervention from American Parent GM?

  • BK

    Wheelnut

    There you go, you admit the commodore aint all aussie once again. Well done for a person who follows a car thats foreign made. No GM = no holden and it wont be long to find out for holdens future here.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [BK]: Well done for a person who follows a car that’s foreign made.

    If you had read various artiles on here or in the car magazines etc from the time that the VE was released up until now you will see that the majority of them state that the Holden VE Commodore is made – that is “Asssembled” using components from Here and Overseas which come together for a common purpose – build a car
    in the Holden Assembly Plant in Elizabeth North Of Adelaide; South Australia.

    Infact most recently a number of them are about the future of the VE Commodore which is made that is “Asssembled” using components from Here and Overseas which come together for a common purpose – build a car
    in the Holden Assembly Plant in Elizabeth North Of Adelaide; South Australia given the current economic downturn and fuel crisis

    So how the hell is the VE Foreign made?

    That’s right Duck.. Initially GM couldn’t understand why Holden knocked back the Pontiac Sigma as the basis for the new Commodore; yet despite their financial problems gave Holden the go ahead and when they saw what Holden had Made in Australia they were rather impressed.

  • BK

    Wheelnut Says:
    November 24th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
    I never said that the Commodore is All Australian

    well done wheel nut you again admit holden aint all aussie.
    You proud to be owning foreign owned and made.

  • Wheelnut

    Foreign: of, pertaining to, or derived from another country or nation; not native: foreign cars.

    THE VE Commodore isn’t Foreign as its and MADE here in Elizabeth; Adelaide; South Australia.

    The Camry and the Aurion are more Foreign than the VE Commodore as the Camry is deived from the same car that’s sold in the USA with slight modifications etc..
    whereas the VE is an All Australian Design

    Drive past the Holden Factory in Elizabeth Adelaide South Australia and you will see a sign that says “Elizabeth Adelaide The Home of Holden – which as I’ve said before is where Holden was Established/Founded

    However; you obviously don’t realise that this article [like the majority of articles on CA] is about the car – VE Commodore / HSV-427 and not the Company – Holden

  • Wheelnut

    To see of something is Local or from Overseas you generally look at its roots establish where it came from

    Toyota Australia is and always was a fully owned subsidiary of Toyota which was established/founded in in Japan.. which set up operations in Australia back in the 1950s

    Holden on the other hand was established/founded in Adelaide Australia back in the 1920s before it was gradually taken over by GM which owned a number of other Car manufacturers [but didn't actually make a car that wears a GM badge unlike Holden]

    Hey Tomas79 here’s one for you: QANTAS ARE listed on the ASX but they use Boeings made in the USA so are they an Australian or American Company?

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Tomas79] “GM and Ford aren’t listed on the ASX and therefore; aren’t Australian!”

    GM don’t actually make/assemble [which ever term you would like to use] cars that actually wear a GM badge…. they just happen to own a number of companies that do make/assemble cars including Holden; Chevrolet; Pontiac; Buick; Vauxhall; and Opel which have Assembly plants throughout the world.

    In the same way that Fuji Heavy Industries don’t make Cars but they own a company known as Subaru that do make/assemble cars.

    GM didn’t establish any of the car companies or marques that they own; they gradually took them over – which is why Opel is still regarded as being European; Vauxhall is British; and Holden is Australian.

    In the same way Rolls Royce was taken over by BMW but is still regarded as English… and Lamborghini is still regarded as being Italian despite being owned by Porsche

  • Wheelnut

    Tomas79 and BK – whats the first thing that comes into your head when someone says the word Holden? what do you think of?

  • Wheelnut

    I was born in [I am from] Australia and I drive a 02 Subaru Impreza RS Sedan [so I'm not 100% biased towards Holden].
    A Subaru that was built/made/assembled in and comes from Japan.

    However; going by Tomas79′s “logic” the Impreza is actually Australian made; because I am Australian and I own it.. it belongs to me.

    Given that he believes because GM owns Holden its American and NOT Australian

  • master_scott

    So all the people buying a lovely Volkswagen Golf brag to their friends about their great, reliable(?), South African car?

  • Wheelnut

    Its where the badge comes from thats the thing and the Holden badge is from Australia therefore whilst there are a number of Holdens that are made overseas [in the form of Daewoos and Opels] the cars wear a Holden badge as those cars are made for the Australian Market to meet Australian Design Regulations etc

    However; the Holden Commodore on which the HSV W-427 [the car which this article is about - incase you have forgotten] is based is made in Elizabeth Adelaide South Australia which just so happens to be Where Holden was established back in the early 1900s.

    So unlike the Volkswagen Golf which wears a German badge but is built/made/assembled in South Africa or the Toyota Hilux which wears a Japanese badge but is built/made/assembled in Thailand.. The Holden Commodore wears an Australian Badge and is built/made/assembled in Australia

    Although not entirely of 100% Australian parts etc – like all other cars it uses components which come form local and overseas suppliers

  • Fred

    The motor, for instance, is a 60s American pushrod stroked to 7 litres to deliver the same power as an M5. Speaking of which, the 5-litre V10 has undergone a lot of research, only to be equalled on output by ancient technology. While the 427′s price isn’t really justifiable, it’s still way cheaper then the BMW, with similar performance. It just makes sophistication harder to argue over yesteryear functionality.

  • BK

    Wheel nut
    When we all think of holden we all know its a cheaply made import. I remember back in 2005 when holden decided no more glass windows from Pilkingtons in Geelong. They decide lets get em from asia cause cheaper and lower quality. Holden foreign owned not aussie.

  • BK

    Wheel nut
    Holden aint aussie. No GM = No Holden

  • Wheelnut

    Holden Foreign Owned Yes I know; but the Commodore and its derivatives are Built/Made/Assembled here and giving 1,000s of Aussies [jobs both directly and indirectly]

    And in case you haven’t noticed the HSV W-427 [like all HSVs] is based on a Aussie Built Commodore.

  • BK

    Everytime a manufacturing business closes down in australia cause Holden doesnt want to use there parts and material just simply means they prefer the cheaper overseas quality. And when people here and see it happening all the time all they say is that we aint proud aussies anymore and we prefer the cheap foreign brands.
    The Australian flag is the only real aussie icon left but commodore has never been.
    What will holden do if the mexicans cant make engine blocks and other engine parts any more for the V6 because GM went bankrupt. NO GM = NO HOLDEN

  • Wheelnut

    There’s the Holden Engine Company based in Melbourne which used to produce the 4.2 and 5.0 Litre V8s from the 1960s to 1990s and now make the V6 engine for the COmmodore as well as a number of other 4 and 6 cylinder engines for other car manufacturing companies – not only those that belong to GM

  • BK

    V6 Engines are produced in Mexico not in Australia. Holden dont have technology to produce engines here in OZ. Even the 427 is produced in Nrth America and not Australia. So there you go. So what are you gonna do when GM closes up. There be no holden for you.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut Says: “Tomas79 and BK – whats the first thing that comes into your head when someone says the word Holden? what do you think of?”

    Centrelink, bogans, Deawoo, and die hard Holden fanboys who still think GM Holden is Australian!!

  • BK

    hey wheel nut what is holden gonna do when GM go bankrupt.

  • Tomas79

    BK,
    Wheelnut’s Responce: “Holden won’t go bankcrupt, the new unconfirmed torrana and the volt due in 20XX will save the day”

  • BK

    We know its unconfirmed. GM Holden will try and keep it a secret till they are red in the face.

  • Wheelnut

    It’s sad to see that there are so many people on this site who like to think of themselves not only as
    “Car Enthusiasts” but also “Australians” who find pleasure in the fact that we are in danger of losing not only one of this countries oldest car manufacturers but also our automotive industry all together.

    Because once one goes the other 2 will follow particularly now KRudd has decided to reduce tariffs to virtually nothing.. which will have a negative impact on all other industries not to mention result in the loss of 100,000′s of jobs – maybe even there own.

    Whether or not their company is American British or Japanese shouldn’t come into it what matters is that they are keeping fellow Australians in a job.

    Yes GM are in financial problems due to lack of foresight and poor planning which is having an effect on Holden.. [In a way its the subsidiaries such as Holden keeping the parent companies afloat]
    Although people who think that it doesn’t matter if or when Holden [or Ford] close up and leave Australia are also showing a lack of foresight etc.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut,
    Didn’t GM Holden ltd make another lose this year worth hundreds of millions?? So how exactly is Holden keeping GM afloat??!! The facts are simple, holden just doesn’t make anything appealing for the common aussie….

    The question is, why did you wheelnut choose a japanese subaru, over the partially australian manufactured product?

    Just like Charlie cox, telling australians to buy australian cars…. I bet he doesn’t drive one as his daily drive!!

  • Tomas79

    Yep, i was right…
    “These days he (Charlie Cox) drives a Porsche GT2, a Mercedes S500, a Ducati Superbike and a Harley Davidson”

  • Bavarian Missile

    Well Tomas isn’t born here so I guess hes not Australian for a start what about you BK ?

    Who gives two hoots where the components are made,fact is the cars are assembled here just like Ford and Toyota.

    Thank god we have 2 car manufactures in this country that still deliver some excitement in their cars or heaven help the poor people that may have to resort to owning boredom in the form of Toyota.

    I saw the W427 today, white not a good colour for it but its not a bad looking car,why dont you do yourself a favor Tomas and head down to Brian Gardner’s show room for a look ! There taking orders off it ! Or head to a TRD dealer and get a heavily discounted TRD Camry from last year still ,is there a front wheel drive Supercar ????????hahahaha

  • Tomas79

    Bavarian Missile,
    TRD Camry,HSV,FPV….. Nah, sorry I find this entire family sports wannabe class boring… And I got to say, the FPV and HSV version of these cars look really tacky…
    I got to say, in standard guise they look much more respectable… But in FPV and HSV guise they look like a kmart special….

    As for M3, and W427 being a supercar, you got to be kidding…
    Supercars are purpose built from ground up, not tarted up common family car shells…

  • Wheelnut

    Although I don’t really have to justify why I bought a Subaru to you…. I bought it because at the time I was single and didn’t need a Full Size RWD V8 Family Sedan.. despite the fact the VT SS was a really good performer. [anyway it was a bit out of my budget].

    I looked around at other manufacturers [including Toyota] and as it turned out the Subaru was the most suitable car for my needs. it offered more safety more features not to mention more excitement/performance than other 4cyl cars

  • Tomas79

    Where was you concern for the Aussie battler working at holden back then??

  • Wheelnut

    Back then Holden was not only making a profit but the Commodsore was Australias most Popular selling car as there ere 1,000s of people buying Holdens – because obviously they realised/believed that the Commodore is a reliable practical car..

    Unfortunately though since then people have become more shallow more image conscious and switched over to full size 4x4s even though they unlike the Commodore don’t suit their needs they just give the impression that they have money etc

    My Parents have owned 8 Commodores including a VL Commodore which they kept for 15 years [with no major mechanical problems] which is one of the reasons I follow Holden..

    If I could afford a New Commodore I would buy one which I have as I am planning to start up a Car Detailling Business so I am getting a new Holden Ute.

    Again [like the Subie] because its the right type of vehicle for my needs and it just so happens to be a Holden
    and yes I did look at the Hilux

    I could ask the same thing about you Tomas79 Why do you drive a Prado yet you have said that deep down you are actually a Ford Fan why didn’t you buy a Falcon instead of a Prado – given that Ford are in a worse situation than Holden are.

  • Wheelnut

    The term supercar is subjective as it is open to personal opinion..

    I mean given that the HSV W427 is capable of close to 300Km/h [which it would reach if it was supercharged like the ZR-1 corvette] whereas most other sedans are only capable of 200Km/h the W427 could be considered a supercar.

    The performance of the W427 is particularly impressive given how low-tech the engine is

    The same thing applies in terms of power that a cars engine can produce.. 300kw for out of a turbo-charged inline 6 as in the FPV F6 for example is well above the output of your average 6 cylinder car giving it super performance.

    So inorder to be a supercar it doesn’t necessarily have to come from Europe or have a 6 figure price tag

  • BK

    Wheel nut

    I was born in USA, Michigan
    I have been a citizen of Aust for 30 years now. So I am a aussie. So where are you born. Let me guess all your components are from GM.

  • BK

    wheel nut

    So the XYGTHO PHASE III FALCON was the very first supercar in australia. Or is this car another component of foreign ownership. Took holden 35 years to create 300kw engines and to catch up to this car. Has to be classed as more than a supercar in aust.

  • BK

    Wheel Nut

    So everytime you walk into K Mart and by a tshirt and it says Made in China on it do you really still think it is australian cause you bought it in Kmart not from china. I think you got mixed up when you bought your WRX. You probably think its a commodore. You must be short sighted or some asian really outsmarted you when he sold the car to you.

  • Wheelnut

    Yes it was cos when it was released it was the fastest 4 door sedan in the world – no other sedan had gone as fast as that.. its power and performance was well above that of the average sedan at the time..

    Remember there was a photograph of a GT doing well over 100km/h on a freeway in Melbourne which was on the cover of the various local papers across Australia.. A photo which sparked the “Supercar Scare”

    The Scare effectively brought about the end of the GT Monaro and Charger. as at the time cars capable of such speeds were considered “unnecessary and unsafe”.

    Had the scare not have happened I’m sure Ford Holden [and Valiant]would have continued to make even faster cars with their subsequent models such as the rare Phase IV of which only 4 “prototypes” were made.

    However; they were virtually forced to back off a bit and make cars designed to do more “appropriate speeds”

  • Wheelnut

    No I know its a Subie. The Impreza has always been one of my favourite cars because of its engineering; safety; build quality; features and its performance.. although of late the styling has gone off a bit when compared to its direct rival the Mitsubishi Lancer.. so much so that I would have to say that my “Bug Eye” is the best looking [from this century].

  • Wheelnut

    As I have said before it doesn’t necessarily matter where a particular product is made – because when people buy something they tend to look for a particular “badge” “logo” or “name” because the company with that badge have developed a reputation for quality practical and reliable products in a certain area be it cars electronics fashion etc.

    If it wasn’t for reputation do you really think Toyota would sell as many Cars as they do? No – its because of their reputation that people buy them they don’t particularly care whether its made in Japan or Thailand – infact I doubt many Toyota owners would know where their cars are built.

    At the time when I was looking for a New car I would have loved to have been able to buy/afford a Commodore because over the years the Commodore has established a reputation for longevity and reliability which is why people buy them but as I said it was out of my budget.

  • Wheelnut

    Havig said that – It’s good that we still have a Local Automotive Industry and we should try to support it any way we can

    As I said I am buying a Australian Made Holden VE Ute for my Business

    Because if it goes or when its gone we will never get it back

    Those of you who think that when the locals are gone and cars will be cheaper are kidding themselves.

    Car Companies are in business to make a profit and in order to increase profits will most likely raise prices in fact they will be able to name their price as they’ve got something we want [its a simple case of supply and demand].. and we won’t have any other alternative/option.

    Not that there will be that many Australians able to afford a new imported car as so many of us will be out of work – and will end up driving 10-15 year old cars….

    Luckily the locally built Commodores and Falcons are known for their longevity eh?

  • Howie-VL

    Wheelnut:
    Luckily the locally built Commodores and Falcons are known for their longevity eh?

    Wheelnut, are you being sarcastic?

  • Wheelnut

    Correct me if I am wrong; but as far as I am aware this article isn’t about me or the car I own/drive.

    It’s about the New HSV W-427 a car which has been called an Australian Supercar. Why? well let me lay it out for you….

    In case you didn’t know HSV stands for HOLDEN Special Vehicles.. and funnily enough Holden Special Vehicles base [all but 1 of] their cars on Holdens.. Holden Commodores to be precise.

    The Holden Commodore is Made by Holden [Shock Horror]. Holden is a car manufacturer that was established way back in the 1920s.
    and it just so Happens that they were established in Adelaide South Australia – the bit of the map of Australia between NSW and WA.. just below the NT

    The Factory where the Commodore is made is located on the Phillip Hwy in Elizabeth for those of you who don’t believe me. The HSV factory is in Clayton Victoria….
    visit both of them and you will see the similarities between the two – although its easier to visit your local Holden/HSV Dealership [if you dare]

    All of these factors should prove that the Commodore is Australian Made as is the W427 and therefore; due to the fact its one of the only Australian made cars able to reach 250Km/h plus with performance unlike any other Aussie made car before it is justifiably referred to as an Aussie Made Supercar.

  • Tomas79

    Wheelnut says” I could ask the same thing about you Tomas79 Why do you drive a Prado yet you have said that deep down you are actually a Ford Fan why didn’t you buy a Falcon instead of a Prado – given that Ford are in a worse situation than Holden are.”

    1)I never said “deep down I’m actually a Ford Fan”.
    2)You can’t take a falcon off-road on the weekend!!
    3)You don’t have as good visibility, nor can you sit upright in a falcon!
    4)Falcons depreciate too quickly!
    5) I don’t want visit the mechanic every few months, and don’t want anymore oil stains on my driveway anymore…

    Wheelnut says” people have become more shallow more image conscious and switched over to full size 4×4s even though they unlike the Commodore don’t suit their needs”

    6)Just because you might not have a need for a 4×4, generalizing people that have to more shallow and image conscious is idiotic!
    7)People don’t need a commodore either, there is not much what commodore can do, while a smaller 5 seater can’t..

  • Wheelnut

    Tomas79 you refer to people who own Commodores as Bogans therefore I am within reason to refer to 4×4 owners as image conscious poseurs given that most NEVER go off-road like they are meant to…. cant get the metallic 2-pack dirty now can we? [let alone the leather interior]

    I admit there are a few 4×4 owners that actually take their 4x4s off road [less than 5%] as that’s what they are designed for.. However; there are a number of Commodore [HSV] owners/drivers who are highly educated highly paid professionals even managers etc who live in relatively affluent suburbs etc – not all of em come from places like Mt Druitt; Salisbury or Midland. [for example]

    You can’t judge a book by its cover yet unfortunately people tend to generalise others or group them together often to denograte them inorder to make themselves feel better. which is why we have “stereotypes”.

  • Bavarian Missile

    hahaha Tomas I hope your not blogging on work time !

    Rio Tinto also in the poo at the moment it seems,hope you dont lose your job!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Same chats and same BS……crikey. One side Holden luver and other side Toyota luver. This means you should both become car lovers and get rid of sarcastic comments towards one car maker.

  • Bavarian Missile

    You also said that Falcon owners/drivers are Bogans

    When I was working for Harvey Norman my boss – Gerry Harvey a self made millionaire who runs his own company and is one of Australias richest men [best friends with another self made millionaire Lindsay Fox of Linfox]drove an old XF Falcon Sedan despite the fact he had enough money to buy a BMW Merc-Benz Porsche or Lamborghini if he wanted to.

    Is he a Bogan?

  • Wheelnut

    You also said that Falcon owners/drivers are Bogans

    When I was working for Harvey Norman my boss – Gerry Harvey a self made millionaire who runs his own company and is one of Australias richest men [best friends with another self made millionaire Lindsay Fox of Linfox]drove an old XF Falcon Sedan despite the fact he had enough money to buy a BMW Merc-Benz Porsche or Lamborghini if he wanted to.

    Is he a Bogan?

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Iam unlike you lot…..I dont out and out support one car maker. Wheelnut is right – being 4×4 and SUV’s are only used for more room to lug more bods around and majority are never used off road and are a blight on roads. They are big and block your view most times as cant see other them. So Thomas; do you take yours real 4WD’ing? If yes… how often (being realistic here too)? We all wanna know? Is it a car you frequent with Rio Tinto or your own car?

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Calling Commodore drivers ‘bogan’ is wrong? I suggest you rephrase that and state its an institution and of cultural significance to have one? They are fine. I would be more worried about your pretend 4WD SUV jobby fuel guzzler sardine can on wheels.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Further….they must be doing something right at Holden as the look of VE more then holds itself up style wise against new Ford. The body and rear roof sweeping down still looks as hot as ever……something of merit in design hey! Same could not be said of Camry or previous model Falcon. For looks…..the Commodore rocks against new Falcon. As for Andrew M saying inside Falcon is better then Commodore…..me thinks not as its too intruding into front passenger space as too pointy and looks odd! Commodore inside is still lineball if not in front of new Falcon which albeit looks more classier.

  • BK

    wheelnut

    HSV W-427 was done by TWR so it aint aussie made. Get yu facts right. How are those made in china T shirts goin that u bought from Kmart. Did u change the tags on yu shirts to made in Kmart or made in australia.

    took holden and TWR to make 300kw engines 35 years. So wats so good about those cars.

  • Wheelnut

    Not this again…. Look at the badge. Yes Tom Walkinshaw Racing Australia [TWR] is the majority shareholder of; and operates HSV it also runs HRT. Yet HSV was established in Australia

    Because when HDT folded back in the 80s after the controversial Polarizer incident with Peter Brock; Holden looked around for someone to start up a new Performance Car division that would use enhance cars just as Brocky did.

    And as I have said in previous comments HSV base all [but one] of their cars on the Commodore which is also Australian Made in Elizabeth South Australia..

    TWR is to HSV what GM is to Holden they don\’t actually make the cars they own a car company that makes them for them

    I mean If you and your wife have a baby is that child yours or your mum and dads?

  • Bavarian Missile

    Pop Quiz Hot Shot [BK]: Is the BMW E-36 M3-R Australian or German

  • Wheelnut

    This is the official definition as to what is Australian Made according to the Department of Trade [Australian Made]:

    It doesn’t matter where the ingredients or components come from….what determines where a particular product is made is the location where those individual items are formed into a final finished product ready for sale.

    So even though there are a number of parts in the VE Commodore that come from overseas – they are put together by Holden at their factory in Elizabeth South Australia inorder to form a car which can then be sold therefore; it is deemed to be Australian Made.. [Same applies to HSV]

  • Tomas79

    Driving a Falcon/Commodore doesn’t automatically make you a bogan… But carrying on about them, and in particular going on how GM Holden is Australian does!!

    Bavarian Missile Says:
    “hahaha Tomas I hope your not blogging on work time!”

    I don’t blog!! This is commenting!! Do you even know what bloging is??

    Bavarian Missile Says: “Rio Tinto also in the poo at the moment it seems,hope you dont lose your job!”

    I don’t work for Rio Tinto!! I work for an Engineering Consultation firm, and at the moment I have 3 Projects going, each in a different industry!! So the state of Rio tinto is of no concern to me…

    Naughtyius Maximus Says: “Same chats and same BS……crikey. One side Holden luver and other side Toyota luver…

    Who is the Toyota luver tard boy?? I guess not having a one brand bias, is incomprehensible to you….

    Naughtyius Maximus Says:
    “They are big and block your view most times as cant see other them. So Thomas; do you take yours real 4WD’ing? If yes… how often (being realistic here too)? We all wanna know? Is it a car you frequent with Rio Tinto or your own car?”

    They are only taller then you average car, so harden th f*** up and stop whinging!!
    I take it off road seriously often, nearly every second week… My mates can’t believe where I take my brand new car…. Also I do a lot of weekend trips with 4×4 clubs… And yes, it is my own!!

    Naughtyius Maximus Says:
    “would be more worried about your pretend 4WD SUV jobby fuel guzzler sardine can on wheels.”

    Why would I be worried?? As a matter of fact I don’t see the purpose of soft-roader SUV such as the territory, the captive, or the kluger….

  • Andrew M

    NM,
    have you been in a VE lately???
    i suggest you revisit one if you think the VE interior is above FG.
    the flimsy glovebox and handbrake coupled with shocking visibility and very plastic looking centre stack simply dont do it for me.
    each to their own.
    I went right through the VE’s and FG’s before i purchased.
    the interior on the commys is a big deal breaker.
    even holden diehards can admitt the FG interior looks awesome.

    Question, have you driven a VE???

    Do a back to backer

  • Bavarian Missile

    How the hell does blogging on about Holdens make you a bogan ? I thought it was just being patriotic and loyal to a brand you support.

    So you no longer work for Rio………..lucky boy!

    I know what blogging is………….were you blogging on work time ????????

  • Bavarian Missile

    GM-Holden is the company that runs Holden on behalf of GM
    as in GM Holden “trading as” Holden Pty Ltd.

    In the same way its Fuji Heavy Industries “trading as” Subaru etc

    Holden is the brand name.. GM-H is the company that owns the rights to the Holden brand/logo.. as I said before show me a modern car that wears a GM or a GM-H badge!

    Anyhow this article is about the CAR and how it performs NOT the company that owns Holden or not how the Company is performing etc they are two seperate issues because
    the car could be selling exceptionally well yet the company tcould be making a loss

  • Tomas79

    Bavarian Missile Says:”
    How the hell does blogging on about Holdens make you a bogan ? I thought it was just being patriotic and loyal to a brand you support.”

    Patriotic? Are you american?
    Did i say anything about blogging about holdens?

    Bavarian Missile Says:”So you no longer work for Rio………..lucky boy!”

    What are you on?? I never have worked for Rio Rinto, or been involved on any of their projects…

    Bavarian Missile Says:”I know what blogging is………….were you blogging on work time ????????”

    Can you read, i have never blogged in my life!!

    Bavarian Missile Says:”the car could be selling exceptionally well yet the company tcould be making a loss”

    Oh Ok, so i sopouse it’s the fairies taking their cut…..

  • BK

    Just admit it wheel nut that TWR own a majority of HSV. TWR is located in the UK if you didnt know that yet. SO now you are gettin mixed up with UK and Australia. There both miles apart. You still havent shown proof that holden is all AUSSIE MADE.
    So where does all the money go to when a HSV is made. Where does all the money go to when a Holden is made.
    Vauxhaull VXR8 is the same as a commodore so i told you the commodore aint aussie its really a Vauxhaull.
    Pontiac G8 is the same as a commodore so i told u again the commodore aint aussie its a Pontiac. Told u theres no such thing as a real aussie commodore.

  • Al Juraj

    Australia was just used as a workshop for this ‘$1B’ project. All concepts (and many other components) come from overseas. To make it ‘Aussie’, all they need to do is place the lion badge. At the end of the day, the Commodore is just as Oz as a Camry. Our 427 here is actually a triple citizen at the very least, with an American engine, British backing and a backyard downunder.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Patriotic………..Im Australian as Ross and a lot of others on this site do Tomas.

    mmmmmmmmm I thought you worked for RIO ……….any ways your lucky if you dont,unlike Dingo!

    Hows work Ross ????

    hahaha never blogged at work time Tomas………….lets see shall we!

    Do you two guys read what you write or understand what others are saying………. ??????????????

    Off to bed and a life………nite!

  • Wheelnut

    BK…. If you and your wife have a baby is the child yours or your mums and dads?

  • BK

    Wheel nut
    If yu wife has a baby and the baby needs a heart transplant do you go to GM, Vauxhaul, HSV or holden to get one. One size fits all.

    NO GM = NO HOLDEN = NO VAUXHAUL = NO HSV

  • Tomas79

    Bavarian Missile,
    You don’t get it, look up the definition of a “blog”!!

    Wheelnut, do you consider IKEA furniture shipped from Sweden/ china but assembled at home Australian made?

  • Bavarian Missile

    Um whats your point Tomas ? Mine was are you doing this during work time……..seems you are !

    If the furniture is designed by a Swedish firm and made for them in China under their name then its still seen as Swedish furniture not China, gee you two are pathetic ! I thought only women wanted the last word but I tell you what seeing you both cant admit that the W427 is an Australian Supercar ,go ahead and continue to make fools of yourselves .

  • Wheelnut

    Okay then who makes the Hilux in Thailand if its not Toyota..

    Given that Thailand doesn’t have its own recognised car manufacturing company…. Going by your “Logic” the Hilux doesn’t really exist – does it?

  • Wheelnut

    Blogging – (an abbreviation of the term “Web log”) A Blog is a Web site, usually maintained by an individual with regular entries of news/updates, commentary, descriptions of events, or other material such as graphics or video etc.

    Many blogs provide commentary or news on a particular subject – such as cars. A typical blog combines text, images, and links to other blogs, Web pages, and other media related to its topic.

    The ability for readers to leave comments in an interactive format is an important part of many blogs

    And the word used to describe the action of anyone who enters or leaves a comment on a Blog site – such as this.. is commonly known as “Blogging”.

  • Wheelnut

    BK Says [November 26th, 2008 at 10:38 pm]:
    The Vauxhall VX-R8 is the same as a commodore so i told you the Commodore ain’t aussie its really a Vauxhaull.
    The Pontiac G8 is the same as a commodore so i told u again the commodore ain’t aussie its a Pontiac.

    Seems I have to repeat my self yet again.. So; here we go One more time for the Dummies…..

    This is the official definition as to what is Australian Made according to the Department of Trade [Australian Made]:

    It doesn’t matter where the ingredients or components come from….what determines where a particular product is made is the location where those individual items are formed into a final finished product ready for sale.

    The components that make up the VX-R8 and Pontiac G8 are assembled together to form a final product ready for sale at the Holden Factory in Elizabeth Adelaide South Australia Australia before being exported..

    Therefore; as no major-work or further assembly is required as the car is ready for its intended purpose as soon as it reaches its destination [the dealership] The Commodore The VX-R8 and the Pontiac G8 are Australian Made.

  • Wheelnut

    The Vauxhall VX-R8 leaves the Holden factory in Australia with the Vauxhall and VX-R8 badges all ready on the car.

    The Pontiac G8 leaves the Holden factory in Australia with Pontiac G8 badges on the car.

    Both the VX-R8 and G8 leave the Holden Factory in Australia with all the various features specifications etc – in terms of both mechanical interior exterior and safety unique to their respective markets

    Not only that; the G8 is also leaves the Holden Factory in Australia as a Left Hand Drive car therefore; no major engineering work – such as a conversion from RHD>LHD is required when the cars reach the USA or the UK. They are both Australian Made.

  • Wheelnut

    Heres a way Tomas and BK can find out whether or not the Holden Commoodore [Omega Berlina SS Sedan Ute Sportwagon] Statesman as well as the HSV [Maloo Clubsport Senator GTS] is made in Australia or the USA once and for all

    Over the weekend – visit your Local Holden Dealership [if you dare] and ask to see under the bonnet so you can have a look at the build plate which lists the various vehicle identification numbers etc as well as where the car is made/Assembled.

    and get back to me…. I think you’ll be surprised.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Thomass. Mate your blurb furball ramblings are imploding in your diatribe warbling ramblings. May I suggest an overdose of reality pills – if problems persist see your Doctor (like more then one). Thats what shytes me about your type…..people like you and TP and all these over so called wallies go on with shyte when questioned hard!

    Go find a rock and crawl under it you disgusting gimp!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    And……go find your tardis. It awaits keenly for you!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Blogging on work time…..hmmm. I see! Interesting.

  • Andrew M

    WOW,
    what a load of bitter rubbish going on here.

    why would such people enter an article about something they have pre formed emotions about.

    Tomas and co only come for the stirring.
    not here to post anything relevant, nor give credit where credit is due.
    they are just here to hunt down an article they can slag on and get response from doing so.

    these are the same sort of people that pinch their kids so they can yell at them to stop crying.

    its definately a mental condition

  • Tomas79

    Naughtyius Maximus and Andrew M,
    Pointless rubish, no wonder you guys keep on getting your comments deleted, and are threatened with a ban!!

  • BK

    You still dont get it Wheelnut. 70% of the commodre parts are made and assembled overseas and the rest here in OZ. You still say It doesn’t matter where the ingredients or components come from to put these cars together. I would be surprised if HSV , HOLDEN , Pontiac and Vauxhaul deal in this way cause if they did then they would be just junk. I would love to pull apart any holden and have a good look at where all there bits and pieces come from cause if u think a build plate under your bonnet is gonna tell you everything well your wrong there. Check out the Holden website and it will tell you where there parts are sourced from.

  • Andrew M

    Tomas has spoken,
    my point proven…….

  • Cupid Stunt aka No Name

    Thomas “No1) I can guarantee you there there have been many more LX470 sold world wide, then the W427!! So your statement is just plain stupid!!”
    Well thats a stupid comment if I ever read one. Why are you comparing a mass produced bling landcruiser with a limited production car.

    So Thomas if bogans did drive commies and falcons and now most are driving Prados, does that make you a bogan?

  • Tomas79

    Seriusly, why do all the mentally challenged fan boys keep visiting and commenting on this site?!

    1)No Name, you idiot, visit VFacts and add up all the LX470 sold since 1998!!

    2) No Name, you retards, i didn’t bring in the lX470 in tho this conversation, so get your facts straight first you idiot!!

    Andrew M, Naughtyius Maximus, you wankers, if you have nothing to add to the conversation don’t bother!!

  • Tomas79

    Bavarian Missile,
    My work is flexible, so i comment on here, on my own time!!

    Wheelnut, as i have said, if you buy sweedish or chinese made furniture from ikea, and while you are assembling it at home, you looose a screw, but replace it with an australian one…. You don’t call that australian made!!! Just because you assembled at home, and used some australian parts…

  • Cupid Stunt aka No Name

    Mmmmmmm a bogan’s ranting aimlessly.

    On Comment
    Do hope the few that want to afford running large capacity engines do so. Would be a sad day when the dictators say what vehicles we can run in or not.

    For my opinion regarding the australian content bit and this comming from a pohm not living in Australia is the Falcon and Commodor are Australian yank engine or not. Designed in Australia built in Australia and driven by Australians that are proud of it.

  • Cupid Stunt aka No Name

    Thomas your command of the english language is frankly appalling. “retards” when referring to the singular.

    I really don’t understand what you mean by your comment 1). above. I couldn’t see why you were comparing different cars
    also
    2). above I didn;t say you did not bring this into the discussion.

    Seems as ever Thomas you read something miss interpret it and then attack personalities. You’re sooo gullible. Ha Ha

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Yes I agree Andrew M…….tooooooooo right!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Prado bogan…………where do you go 4WD’ing? On the dirt road I bet?

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Tomas79 Says:
    November 28th, 2008 at 2:07 am
    Seriusly, why do all the mentally challenged fan boys keep visiting and commenting on this site?!

    NM response……..change ‘boys’ to you you braincelled wallie!

  • pious

    This has been fun reading, guys, but it is cutting into my redtube time. If someone decides to stop, it will die a natural death.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Tomas 79} Naughtyius Maximus and Andrew M,
    Pointless rubish, no wonder you guys keep on getting your comments deleted, and are threatened with a ban!!

    Poor Tomas it appears that he has been hit with a bout of Amnesia once again . Because he has had far more of his comments deleted than Amdrew M; Bavarian Missile; NM; Golfie or Myself….

    In fact Tomas is going close to breaking the record for the number of deleted comments currently held by his old pal D—O whose comments were deleted because they were offensive and off topic – Just like Toams’s most recent comments on this particular thread have been

    Not only that but D—O often resorted to personal attacks and insults when he was losing an arguement – in the same way Tomas is ATM

    Tomas I suggest you read the Car Advice code of conduct or you could find yourself banned just like D—O

  • Tomas79

    No Name,
    1)It shows someones intelligence, or the lack of when they spot an obvious typo, and have to point it out!!
    2)Wheelnut brought up and compared the LX470, into the discussion, so why bother me, you idiot!!

    Wheelnut Says:
    “Poor Tomas it appears that he has been hit with a bout of Amnesia once again . Because he has had far more of his comments deleted than Amdrew M; Bavarian Missile; NM; Golfie or Myself….”

    Wheelnut, Obviously your not too bright, but your now a absolute liar too!!!

    Anyway, thats it from me on this stupid subject! Time for caradvice to increase their ban list!!

  • Wheelnut

    The Holden website lists all the various parts that you would expect to go into building a modern car such as

    camshafts, crankshafts, pistons, gearboxes, ponnets, bootlids, doors, 1/4 panels, bodykits, differentials, brake dics, brake calipers, shock absorbers, coil springs, airbags, seats, windows, moulded plastics. headlights, indicators, alternators, badges, batteries, bulbs, horns, switchgear, door handles, interior trim, air conditioning units, in car entertainment systems, gauges, catalytic convertors, exhaust manifolds, air filters, fuel tanks, fuel filters, engine management units, wiring, mufflers, wheels, tyres, seat belts, air intake systems, radiators, hoses, windscreen wipers, motors, controls, rack and pinion steering systems; steering wheels, bolts/screws and other fasteners etc

    But it doesn’t specifically mention where or which country those parts come from.

    Yet as I said before this article isn’t about Holden or HSV [The Company] its about the HSV W-427 [The Car]

  • Wheelnut

    The V8 engine in the HSV 427 [The main focus/topic of this article] may be imported from the USA so to might the gearbox or the differential – all of which helps provide power and drive for a car

    However; you can’t build a car if you’ve got nothing on which to build it on. Therefore; the most basic and essentially the most important part of the car is actually the Platform – it’s the platform that gives the car its shape and its strength etc

    I know for a fact that the skeleton/platform doors bonnet boot lid roof and 1/4 panels for the all the cars in the VE Commodore range and WM Statesman are supplied by a company called Hirotec that is located approximately 15 minutes away from the Holden Factory where the VE Commodore is Assembled/Made.

  • BK

    so wheel nut if holden didnt get all there engines, gearboxes and other differential parts from USA then how will holden have a car that will work. You say again the most basic and essentially and the most important part of the car is actually the Platform.
    I say you are wrong there again cause if you want this car to work you have to have the complete built car not just a platform. And this Hirotec you talking about get all there sheet metal supplied from China. Holden like Ford and other auto companies in Oz get all there sheet metal supplied from CHINA. I say again 70% of the commodre parts are made and assembled overseas and the rest here in OZ. Maybe you can just sit in an empty shell of your holden and say this is all that is Aussie made. Maybe thats what you have out in the front yard of your house is a empty shell commodre cause all the other parts are foriegn made.

  • Cupid Stunt aka No Name

    Ha Ha this is sooo funny poor Thomas the tank engine. Quick duck n cover. Apparently I’m a retards …retards…theres two of me. Wooo double the amount of flack I can give Thamas now.

  • Wheelnut

    BK: I take it from your comment that you obviously never built a billy cart or a go cart.. you poor deprived child

    Because with out the platform what are you going to bolt the Engine Gearbox Diff Brakes Wheels Seats Panels and other components to in order to create the car?

    The Chassis or Platform is what holds everything together and gives the car its shape and structural rigidity etc…. its the foundations or framework on to which the engine and all the other components are added onto

    I mean if you didn’t have a skeleton there would be nothing to support you muscles and you would just be a blubbering mess of blood and tissue etc wouldn’t you?

    If Holden didn’t get there engines from the USA there is the Holden Engine Company [The worlds largest Engine Company] located in Melbourne. Not only is it the place where they used to build the legendary 4.2 and 5.0 Litre V8s from the 60-90s but they also build other 4 and 6 cylinder engines for overseas car manufacturers. And Gearboxes could be sourced from Hollinger Engineering who are also in Melbourne and supply a number of overseas car companies

  • Wheelnut

    BK sure a number of parts that go into building the VE do come from overseas but its nowhere near 70%..

    But what good is an engine or gearbox if there is no power or nothing for it to drive or drive it? its just a metal block and completely useless.

    What good is an ECU if there is nothing for it to control? its just a box full of circuits and microchips and completely useless

    It’s only when Holden put all these parts together in Adelaide do these individual components fulfill their purpose and actually become useful in the form of an Australian Made Holden Commodore.

  • Wheelnut

    I mean the simple screw [which was voted by engineers to be the best invention of the 20th century] was invented before the screw driver…. so before then the screw was useless

    See there is virtually nothing in a car that is fully independent they all rely on other parts to help them work and its Holden that puts it all together so that they do work

  • Andrew M

    The main thing that makes a Commodore and Falcon Australian is that they are the only 2 vehicles DESIGNED and ENGINEERED in Australia for Australia.

    it doesnt matter if holden sources an engine from the states, or if ford sources a ZF Auto box.

    as already pointed out there is no such thing as a “100% made here” vehicle whether its European, Italian or Australian.

    those that feel the need to argue such a trivial little point need to get a life.

    Im guessing Tomas and BK were hit by a commodore that took its own handbrake off when they were younger, because that is the only logical reason as to why someone could have so much devoted hatrid to an inatimate object

  • Andrew M

    OH,
    now Forza……um i mean Tomas needs a tissue, whats new.

    when you can no longer hide behind your insults, perhaps a tissue???

  • FrugalOne

    NOT much faster or quicker than a near $100k LESS R8 HSV.

    Just by a R8 HSV spend $30k on approved TomCat performance upgrades and it would kill this 427.

    $168k for a Holden…lol

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Station Wagon

    Citroen C6 $118,500 Ha Ha is that a joke or what.

  • Shak

    HSV is not asking anyone on this website to buy their cars, nor is it pitching it at you people. If you people have the image that this is a bogan car well thats just fine as none of you will ever buy one even if you had the money. So hows about you all stop giving your opinion on this car and just let HSV and its customers enjoy one of the great Australian cars. And just so you know most parts of most cars you buy are imported from other countries. ie ZF gear box. SO dont bag HSV for importing an engine. If the press, V8 supercar drivers and Jeremy Clarkson like this car then you can be assured its one helluva car.

  • Shak

    One more thing. How come no one has a go at MB for charging 20 000 for a pointed star, but when HSV charges for top Aussie engineering you so-called australian’s go up in arms. The europeans may have 100′s of years of experience, but that doesnt mean they dont stuff up(Citroen, BMW X6, MB R-Class.) If im a bogn for supporting my country then im a bogan.

  • Ben

    Hsv should have done a better job with this car, looked way to bland. Should have had a wild body kit, better paint patterns, It looks like a tarted up omega with a massive V8. N why such a huge V8? Why not supercharge the 7 ltr V8, nw that would have been awesome, should have been superchared for the price anyway

  • TDo

    My purchase decision is purely on the basis that this car will be a collectable in the years to come. Sure I can buy an Evo or whatever but generally these cars always lose value.
    I’m hoping for a decent percentage profit for this investment, if not at least I would still have a car to enjoy years down the track.
    Also I could always just go buy a GTR if need be and give it a flogging around the track then probably give it away as a charity organised prize that would go on to help cure cancer or something with the money raised.

  • dave

    Saw a W427 on the road the other day in Silver – it looked great. Good work HSV.

  • Paul

    hate evo and wrx’s. add a turbo onto a 4 cylinder and its a sports car, HAHAHA. 4 cylinders are for children. my v10 commodore eats evo’s and wrx’s for breakfast.

    • ABMPSV

      Yes you are right but it is only for short distance. A 24h race in Nurburgring and your car will be lucky to finish. I do not care about your acceleration or top speed put your car on the racing circuit and let see!! Even in this country Bathurst 12h, how many time the V8 won that race!!!!!

      • Shak

        The fact is that our local cars are made for our tastes. We like weekend holidays up the coast with five on board and all their luggage. We like easy steering, and compliant rides. We like useable grunt, and good looking cars. The EVO has its purpose as an everyday track car. Of course it would munch the W427, it is AWD and weighs about 350kg less. The Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon are family cars with a little bit of sport thrown in for whem mum or dad wants to have a bit of fun. That is the order of things. If you dont like the car, thats fine, but many still do.(And they are not all bogan’s, im from Fiji and i drive an SS-V, and im definitely no Bogan)