2007 Holden Epica – Korean Goodness
February 5, 2007 by Alborz Fallah
Previously when we wrote a bit about the Holden Epica, it caused a little bit of a storm, readers argued amongst themselves as to why Holden continues to bring out Korean made vehicles with a Holden badge stuck on. Anyway, last friday at the Brisbane International Motorshow, the Epica was unveiled, and my god was it ugly!
The Epica which goes on sale in early April 2007, will be available in two variants (CDX and CDXi) with a choice of either a 2.0 or 2.5-litre in-line six cylinder engine, depending on the model. At the motorshow, GM Holden Chairman and Managing Director Denny Mooney was there entertaining us with his Texan accent and trying to convince us that the Epica would offer outstanding value for money, an extremely refined drive and fuel economy comparable to a four cylinder car.
Firstly, if I can point out the obvious, for many years now Holden has been going on about how In-Line six engines are inferior to their V6 engines, obviously a stab at Ford’s Falcon which is competing directly with Holden’s own Commodore. But of course when you start sourcing cars from Korea, you really have no choice in the engine, so if its in-line its good!
Holden still hasn’t released any actual pricing figures, but specifications are a little cleared now. A five-speed manual or automatic transmission will be offered depending on model. Whilst a respectable fuel economy (ADR081/01) of 8.2 litres/100km for the 2.0-litre manual variant and 9.3 litres/100km for the 2.5-litre automatic.
“Epica’s in-line six cylinder engine delivers a very refined and smooth ride and returns better fuel economy than some of the four-cylinder rivals in the mid-size sedan segment.
It has generous interior space, excellent standard specifications and stylish fit and finish. We believe Epica will suit the value end of the mid-size sedan segment but will also be a great alternative to vehicles right throughout that segment.” Mr Mooney said.
Its obvious that these engines are designed for Korean cars, a simple comparison between this car the Toyota’s new Aurion would show a few things, I know the two cars are not in the same class and I am comparing apples and oranges but bare with me for a second.
Toyota’s 3.5L engine in the Aurion puts out 200kWs and 336Nm of torque, and has a fuel economy of 9.9 litres. Whilst the 2.5 litre 6 cylinder engine in the Holden Epica puts out 115kW of power and 237Nm of torque whilst using 9.3 litres. Hmmm? so Mr Mooney’s comments about the epica being refined, are absolute bullocks.
Let me assure all you potential epica buyers, this vehicle is not Australian, it has been given a suspension touch up and a rebadging here in Australia. The actual car is manufactured at GM’s Bupyong plant in South Korea.
Power figures for the two engines are as follows
- 2.0-litre 105kW – 195Nm.
- 2.5- litre 115kW – 237Nm.
The Epica model line up will be:
- 2.0-litre: CDX (manual transmission only)
- 2.5-litre: CDX (automatic transmission only)
An optional pack featuring leather trim (two colour options) will be available on the CDXi.
Holden Epica CDX standard features include:
- 16-inch alloy wheels (15” steel spare)
- front and rear power windows
- cruise control
- air-conditioning
- six-speaker CD audio system (MP3 compatible),
- ABS
- traction control
- front and side airbags for driver and front passenger.
Holden Epica CDXi models include all of the above, plus:
- 17-inch alloy wheels (15” steel spare)
- sports body kit
- climate control air conditioning
- side curtain airbags
- electronic driver information display
- eight-speaker six disc audio system (MP3 compatible)
- front fog lamps
- leather wrap steering wheel and gearshift.
Pricing: For both models it is still not clear as Holden is trying to work out how much the Australian public is willing to pay for their mistakes.
The Epica range will go on sale in April. God help us all.
Tags: Holden Epica
It is a bit of an ugly duckling. Much in the same way as a 380, Camry and Aurion.
It should fit in well.
Just how dumb do they think Australians are! …but then again, if they priced it at $9,990 drive away where it deserves to be, they might sell a handful to daggy middle aged women to drive to their local Lincraft store.
Froggy they will sell, there are plently of dodgy cars on the road now purchased with by people with no idea who certainly would not be readers of this site.
Looking at the back and side profiles I think it looks a lot like a SAAB only more ugly.
Holden are a disgrace offering cars like this, only hope it damages their brand rep and therefore future sales.
if it was $9,990 drive away, even I’d buy one :D
its not THAT bad
but when the pricing is announced I am guessing we would be looking at around the mid to low 20s to start with,
and that puts it into the Mazda 3 and Impreza territory.
Now I don’t know about you, but If I had a choice between this car and a Mazda 3, Id pick the mazda!
I wonder just how many crash rating stars this latest Korean effort will give us? As an ex-Vectra owner, this car is no match.
Remember Holden means a great deal to Korea!
“I wonder just how many crash rating stars this latest Korean effort will give us?”
FYI the Viva scored 4 fours for crash safety. Plus the looks are subjective or perhaps is something you have to get use to. Although I like the look of the Vectra now, I didn’t when it came out and got use to it.
I’m not pleased about the fact that Holden are sourcing most vehicles from Korea, but they seem to be selling better and if it helps to evenutally outsell Toyota, they are making a right move.
Plus every Korea vehicle they are selling seem to be on the improve, so I’d wait until the Epica comes out, before seriously judging it.
If I didn’t know Epica’s origins and I was told its a Vectra replacement,I would have a much more positive feeling about this car. The looks would grow on me fairly quickly. I have never owned a Daewoo but I did own a JS/JR Vectra and from my personal experience, reliability doesn’t get much worse than European made Vectra.
If I was in the medium car market, I would surely give Epica a spin around the block.
Epica will NEVER be sold in Europe as an Opel nor VX. Like the beep beep new improved (??!) Barina it will lack all of the European safety and economy that Australians really are due.
I haven’t driven one of the new Barinas but I have read that they appear to be built down to a price.
We have just sold a 2001 Barina (Built in Belgium) and although it never let us down it wasn’t a great car. If it was an example of Euro engineering and quality then I’ll leave Euro well alone.
It had done 59,000 klms when we sold it. It had repeated problems with the EGR valve and the manual gear shift was terrible, which is a well known problem with them. There were a plethora of trim rattles and the seats and plastic trims were horrible.
We just bought a new Suzuki Swift and while its not my kind of car it makes the Euro Barina look like a bucket of bolts. It cost less as well! Drives, handles and has build quality that far exceeds the Barina. Altogether a different class of vehicle.
The Japanese started off making rubbish and now probably make the best cars in the world. I think the Koreans are making big gains and will not be far behind the Japanese in a few years. Then there is China…
“The Japanese started off making rubbish and now probably make the best cars in the world. I think the Koreans are making big gains and will not be far behind the Japanese in a few years. Then there is China… ”
Couldn’t agree more, The Korean offerings right now are based on cheap & cheerful. The levels of safety and refinement are very poor (in general). The 2 Star Barina was a joke, and the current viva is no match for the outgoing Astra. But give them 5-10 Years and this will change. But for now, i’ll stick with my Euro & Japanese cars.
I think you’ll find that Hyundai are already there with the Japanese, at least in terms of Build Quality,
If I can point your attention to the Reliability survey conducted in the UK last month, the Hyundai owned brand Kia came in 5th, above all European brands!
you can find the survey here
http://www.caradvice.com.au/14.....le-brands/
definitely worth a look!
The Holden/Daewoo range of cars are quite simply stupid cars for stupid people. I mean really, how can Holden expect it’s excellent VE series of cars to be considered world-class when they have the same badge and sit in dealerships next to these toilets? Some will say that the proof is in the sales, but although the old euro-sourced Barina never set any sales records, it was a well-respected car. From overseas reports, new European Corsa (the Barina that could’ve been) is for the first time ever considered to be a match for the Ford Fiesta. This tight-arsed approach will come back to haunt Holden.
Yes its very true
I think Ford have done well with the Focus, its obvious the car isn’t selling as well as they’d hoped, but it is still a very strong European package, the XR-5 is an absolute blast to drive!
I don’t know what the plans for Holden are into the future, Mr Mooney (Holden CEO) seems to be a little crazy with his plans, GM is on the come back though, still losing money, but not as much….
I think over some time Korean cars will be just as good as Japanese cars as mentioned. Furthermore I would have no problem with this car if it was sold as a Daewoo, I think it would do well, I just dont like the idea of lying to the Australian public with the Holden = aussie aussie aussie mentality that Holden is exploiting!
Was kann ich jetzt sagen,
Persönlich würde ich glauben dass dieses Auto ein bisschen komisch aussieht. Aber die Idee hört sich sehr gut an. “Holden” hat sein Name von “Opel” bekommen und das ist aber sehr faul. Unsere Autos sind besser in Deutschland. Wenn du mir mal sagen könntest, warum ich dieses Auto kaufen soll, würde ich eine Entscheidung treffen.
Sein Motör wäre mit 2.5 toll, es wäre jedoch sehr stark! Vielleicht soll ich dieses Auto mal probieren!
Ich werde bald nach Australien zurückkommen, und dann kann ich es mal probieren. Was für ein Auto ist Holden? Weil ich gern wissen würde.
“Holden” is a carbrand?
I disagree with you Igor,the European Vectra is a vastly different vehicle from the old JR series.
It’s based upon the Saab platform with Can-Bus
electronics. They are also German engineered
(drivetrain as far as I know)….look under the bonnet most of the labels are in German.
If you talk to dealer service managers
they say very little goes wrong.In fact they’re
proving to be more reliable than the basic
commodore…
Another Korean Holden that seems to have escaped comment is the “Captiva”. Obviously targeted at the Escape/Territory SUV market, it seems to fall short in it’s execution, looking as if someone invite a SsangYong designer in for his comments when in the design stage. need I say more??
Holden just have it all wrong. Korean cars generally have terrible plastics that look cheap. There old partnerships in the past were good with the Jap companies but if they want to try and match or better previous models then I think they need to really think twice before releasing what is a box standard (sub Jap/Euro standard) Korean range of cars. Don’t get me wrong Korean branded cars have their place as being cheap and cheerful, but sticking a Holden badge on it just cheapens the Holden brand. Come on Holden raise the Korean standards!!!
I’m dismayed at all the fuss. No one here has likely driven the Epica, let alone given one a passing glance.
The issue is only about its origins – a Holden from Korea seems to frighten people who are dyed-in-the-wool Holden supporters. Cast your minds back 20 years or so and we had the same mindset operating when Holden bred the first Astras with Nissan and the first Barinas with Suzuki. The Barina is truly international, having been sourced from Japan, Spain and now Korea. The Astra as we now know it is a Belgium built Euro, after its initial run as an Australian built Nissan/Holden alliance.
GM is reducing its platform architecture to perhaps six in total, with GM-DAT taking on a significant role in light world-car development. The current Kalos based Barina/Aveo hatch is not GM influenced and is only a transition car. The Lacetti/Verona/Viva is more of a new Gen Daewoo, but also limited in its GM influence. It is competitive in many areas but lacking in others. The Captiva is probably the first legitimate GM-DAT product to hit the streets, built on GM Theta architecture. Like the Viva, it is a competitive vehicle in its class and far less compromised. Is anyone upset about the Captiva MaXX/Opel Antara/Saturn Vue which although styled in Europe comes out of the same Korean factory?
The Epica will also be competitive. It is also a transition car for GM DAT and will be replaced with something built on the Euro engineered Epsilon platform a bit down the track. But in the mean time, don’t put it in the same category as a 2 star Barina, because it simply isn’t from the same school of design.
I drive a Euro import and have issues with its build quality, resale and running costs – my next vehicle purchase will be made with a less blinkered approach and will certainly include vehicles on sale in Australia, regardless of their country of origin.
Just don’t make judgements based on a single criterion. Keep your Holdens precious by all means, but don’t be so narrow minded.
Many people seem to talk a lot about European and Japanese quality and discount cars from Korea, but most of these are simply stereotypes and prejudices. Careful study of the data show that although cars from Japan are most reliable, Korean cars are pretty close, and Korean cars today are consistently more reliable than just about every European brand, including Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Land Rover.
For a ranking of reliability, look at http://www.drive.com.au/Editor.....&vf=12
The market leader in Australia at the moment is Toyota and as time goes by Toyota is getting further and further ahead. Holden needs to do something to keep up. The Epica will put pressure on the Camry. Families who want an economical sedan may switch from Toyota to Holden.
If you must buy Korean, the Hyundai Sonata is looking a much better bet. The only reason Vectra C sold poorly is that Holden spent more on Denny Mooney’s haircuts than the marketing of the entire range over the last three years. They will push the Daewoo Tosca, a.k.a. Holden Epica, just to prove the naysayers wrong, only doing irreparable damage to their brand.
Last week, I met an old lady who had rented a Lacetti (Viva) and hated it, and said what a joy it was to get into her Corolla. I can only imagine how the Daewoo Tosca will be inferior to the Camry or Accord. When Ford brings in the CD345 Mondeo, it may cost a few bob more, but it will make the Tosca seem irrelevant.
Remember that Tosca, the car’s original name, stands for ‘Tomorrow Standard Car’. That’s right: Standard. In other words, not Special.
Holden Standard? Special? Where I have heard that before?
Sean, I think some of the above negative comments are not invalid. I respect Hyundai. I think they make great cars. But Daewoo: I am not so sure.
We all know about the débâcle over the Kalos. The Lacetti, by all accounts, is worse than the Astra G. I hear what you are saying when you state these are transition cars. However, could Australia not get the Daewoos after the transition is made?
A future Corsa will be twinned with the Kalos, so it may well have the best of both worlds. I wish Holden had waited till then, and the same comment applies to the Lacetti and Tosca.
The short-term approach is great on the bottom line for now, but buyers are guided more on brands and emotion rather than rationality when it comes to these more expensive purchases. Holden, which has spent a lot to tell us that Commodore is the best in the world, will lose a lot of goodwill with its marque as people sample Kalos, Gentra, Lacetti and Tosca.
As to the Winstorm or Captiva, I am still in the negative camp. I know Simcoe had a hand in the styling, but it still looks Asian. Yes, admittedly, the Antara looks less Korean. But I can’t bring myself to see anything but incongruity when I walk by a Winstorm with a Holden badge.
Jack
I agree with you about the lack of marketing behind the Vectra C and its relative failure in Australia. Even though it was respected by the press here in Oz, it was never highly regarded. And don’t forget that in the UK, the Vauxhall Vectra is viewed as a fleet hack’s car – not a premium product by any stretch of the imagination.
Your comment about the lady who hired a Viva and hated it; well, I’ve spent a lot of time in hire cars from Corollas to Falcons and lots in between, and always feel more at home in my own car. I also have to say I dread being given a current Corolla….an immensely underwhelming and stodgy vehicle.
Asian styling? Thank God there’s very little from GM-DAT or Hyundai that continues to torture metal into hideous shapes like some previous Korean models. Ssanyong – take note. I do understand what you mean about the genus of the styling, but the Epica is anonymous rather than Oriental or Continental. Perhaps you might be generalising about The Captiva, its origins influencing your final view. Granted that this blog is all about Holden’s return to Asian-sourced vehicles, but it would be interesting to know if you are as concerned about Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota or Honda and Asian styling.
Is there any evidence that the vehicles in question are damaging Holden’s reputation? From what I have seen and heard, warranty claims on TK Barina and JF Viva are minimal and somewhat less than J and Z series Vectras and S series Barinas. Their Chevrolet equivalents in Europe actually score more favourably than some Euro and other Asian brands. At least a well placed thump on the driver’s door won’t pop the central locking as it does on the Mazda3!!
We’ve been down this track each time Holden sources its vehicles from a new country. As I mentioned in a previous post, Holden was pilloried when it sourced the Barina from Suzuki and the Astra from Nissan. The emotionality of the Holden brand drives this fear more so than rationality. Did anyone bat an eyelid when Ford sold the Kia Pride as the Festiva?
The Epica won’t play in the same league as the Accord, 6 or Mondeo. Neither does the new Camry. It will be marketed with a healthy budget and as I have said before, will be competitive. It has already won awards for Chevrolet in the Middle East – but then again, the Camry has won awards for Toyota in America!
Holden is employing a marketing recovery strategy with these vehicles in a highly volatile, crowded and shifting market. It’s an economic solution that will assist the company to increase market share with vehicles that are acceptable to the public. Hence the expansion of the Astra range, the introduction of the Tigra and of course, our new Asian friends.
Wait until you’ve driven the Epica before saying its a dud. Drive the Captiva before shaking your head disapprovingly. Judge them on the criteria that a buyer would use and if you still come back and say that Holden is commiting marketing suicide with second rate, unreliable and styling-challenged vehicles, I’ll be more inclined to agree with you.
Cheers!
Hi Sean: thanks for such a well thought out reply. I can see where you’re coming from.
With me, I’m a marketing man, and I think the difference between the 1980s and the 2000s is that it is a lot harder to pull the wool over people’s eyes, and that emotion will come into their buying decisions more.
So when I say—without firm evidence—that the Daewoos will hurt Holden, I do so from that marketing standpoint. While warranty claims are very important, I keep wondering if there will be as much pride in having a Lacetti or Tosca in the driveway as an Astra or Vectra C (though point taken about the Vauxhall perception and, to a point, the Opel one in Germany).
The perception of these Korean models is going to be illogical, so even if GM-DAT has managed to get the quality spot-on, there are questions of how these cars will be perceived as social statements. Cars, fleets aside, will tend to be viewed as such.
We won’t really know for sure without having some focus-group data to base my claims on, so I will admit that what I write is guesswork, but a pretty educated guess based on watching the industry for some time.
You are right: Holden was pilloried back in the day of the original Astra and Barina (remember Drover and Piazza?). I fear the Daewoos will increase Holden’s numbers at the expense of goodwill: the reputation earned by a cohesive range of Corsa–Astra–Vectra will disappear. They just won’t be accepted in the same way.
Over in New Zealand, Ford’s three-tier range of Escort–Cortina–Falcon saw it in the number one position for the late 1970s. Once it was removed in favour of Japanese-sourced vehicles from Mazda, regardless of their superior technology and refinement, Toyota became number one. I think Holden is going down the same track and I would hate to read, as I did in the mid-1980s, that Australia’s Own is becoming a thing of the past.
As to styling, I think Hyundai is spot-on with the Getz and Sonata but not the Accent and Elantra, Toyota and Honda still look very Japanese, Lexus less so. Ssangyong deserves to be knocked for making the Austin Allegro look handsome.
Sean, I think the sales’ figures will prove you right in the interim and the competitive pricing will allow (and has allowed with Kalos and Lacetti, and probably with Winstorm) Holden to shift a lot of metal. But it leaves Holden very vulnerable because it becomes a price-competitive market, rather than a brand-based one.
Jack
I think your last comment is crucial; Holden is selling the Barina and Viva in incredibly price-competitive sectors of the market – where there are a lot of buyers new to “brand-new” ownership. Brand loyalty isn’t really in question at this end of the market to the vast majority of buyers.
I know of two Viva owners who shopped around long and hard in this incredibly competitive segment. The Viva won out on features, comfort and price. For these two owners, the Viva’s driveability is not in question. They spend their driving time on a mix of city, suburban and freeway routes, where the Viva does its job well. One does the odd country stint on WA’s poor B roads and still finds the car to be comfortable, stable and good on fuel. Both owners have had their cars for more than 12 months and aside from dealer servicing, there have been no warranty claims, rattles, squeaks, trim, paint or mechanical hiccups.
I think these would be typical Viva buyers – price conscious rather than brand conscious. If the Viva holds up well until trade in time, Holden has bought itself a swathe of next-gen Viva buyers and voila! Brand loyalty.
These two Viva owners have both come from last-gen Hyundai Accents and neither would go back to the brand. Prior to that, one had a Laser and the other a Lancer.
Latest sales figures show that the market in the light and small car segments is booming. Every brand has a nameplate in at least one of these segments. The “funk” factor sells truckloads of Mazda3s – if it was brand loyalty and awareness, the Mazda2 might be selling equally as well.
Yes – brand based sales are alive and well, but in market segments that are less price sensitive. Older buyers with more cash are buying Yarises, not Barinas. The Getz has picked up in its reputation and resale and is appealing to a wider cross-section of buyers.
Move into the mid-size market where the Epica will enter and you have an emerging price sensitivity. The Thai built 4cyl Accord is now selling for around $30K and features wise, makes the Australian built Camry look like Mother Hubbard’s cupboard.
Go further up the market and brand begins to play a much stronger game. Commodore is the emotional choice amongst large-car buyers. The give-away pricing of the 380 hasn’t helped it win buyer approval in a market where Toyota buyers are moving from Camry to Aurion. Dyed-in-the-wool Ford buyers are holding off for another 12 months, waiting for the next-gen Falcon – but if push came to shove, these buyers might just buy a Commodore before turning the key in a Toyota.
The Captiva has entered a segment that is now becoming more price competitive – Toyota used to own this market but with more brands in the mid-size field and existing nameplates growing in dimensions to squeeze into this category, the price-feature equation is going to be a huge consideration. The Captiva is already third highest seller in this segment. At $41K for the LX-with-the-lot, who wouldn’t think twice?
I’m also coming from the marketer’s viewpoint, Jack. Holden has sourced product that sells well now and with the likely exception of the current TK Barina, will probably generate new loyalty to the brand. I understand where you’re coming from, but Holden is not the only brand susceptible to the volatility of a price sensitive and competitive market.
The Barina, Viva, Captiva and soon the Epica – are all competitive players in the market. If they are bringing buyers to the brand and giving them a good return on the purchase, then HOlden, like Toyota, is playing a fairly typical marketing game.
Time will tell, Sean—but in terms of sourcing and pricing well, I think Toyota has Holden trounced, because it is playing the brand game very well. I don’t like Toyotas in general, but I admire what they are doing. They have both bases covered, whereas I still believe that Holden is playing the price game at the expense of what its brand stands for.
I’m not one who goes for the theory that the overall reliability of a Lacetti will lead to brand loyalty at the time of trade: this will apply to some customers, but not all. At that time of trade, a more appealing emotional plea from a rival, or simply stronger perceived quality, can draw the Lacetti owners away.
I see quite a few Lacetti buyers there—the wagon is especially popular on this side of the Tasman—but here, it’s fleets that are going for them. Private buyers are forking out a little more for Corollas and Focuses. Astra G, once upon a time, had fought a more successful battle with both fleets and private buyers.
You are right to single out the Kalos as an exception to what you have observed with Lacetti and Winstorm; there’s no denying that its poor NCAP results in Europe and Australia have impacted on sales. But I argue that this segment is as price sensitive as any other. The B segment (if you’ll forgive the Ford babble) is being fought by Holden on price (otherwise, why not simply get Corsa D?) and it is not winning.
But whatever the case, there’s no denying that for the immediate term, Holden will shift a lot of metal. There’s also no denying that whether one is a marketing or a sales’ guy, this battle will be very, very interesting to watch. I remain very pessimistic about the Tosca long-term, and I also think its chances will be severely limited here where the Mondeo remains a popular choice for CD segment buyers.
To all those who are sooo busy slagging a car that they haven’t even seen yet in the flesh. Every new generation model from Korea just gets better and better. Two years ago models from Korea just seems like ten years of improvements from any where else including Australia. They are catching up soo fast E.G. Hyundai Sonata/Kia models that I realy think that prejudging is just totally dangerous. At $25,000 this looks like a preverbial bargain…
I think that it is very amusing that so many people have negative comments about a vehicle they know nothing about. I have been involved in selling a few Korean vehicles and they are getting better and better all the time and as I have already driven the new Epica I believe that it is another huge step in the right direction. I also believe that this will be a big seller for Holden as it represents great value for money and there is a huge chance I will be driving one in the near future. Everyone should keep their comments to themselves until they have looked at and driven the new Epica.
Jack, I don’t know what you are going on about with “Asian styling.” You claim that Honda and Toyota have Asian styling and that some Hyundais are too Asian, but most of these cars have European styling. E.g. the Camry’s rear is European inspired. The Honda Accord Euro is another European styled car whereas the normal Honda Accord has American styling. I think Ssanyongs are mostly styled by British designers, but I’m not too sure about that.
Furthermore, there are many badge snobs out there, but not everyone is a badge snob. For those that are, there’s Merc, BMW, Lexus, etc for them, but for those who aren’t there are cars like the Epica. Especially in the small car and medium car market people tend to focus more on price and fuel economy. At the end of the day, buying for purely emotional reasons can be risky for me because I’m always debating in my head whether I’m made the right choice. It may feel right one day but the next day my mood will change and my opinion about the car changes. If I can make a solid mathematical argument for a certain car that involves objective things like fuel economy, depreciation, and repair costs, then I can feel secure over the long term about my purchasing decision. A car is not a can of soft drink. It’s a major buying decision.
I test drove the Epica today and was so impressed with the equipment, price and quality of it, I have just placed an order for an Epica CDX.
The trade-in and change over was close to $5,000 less than a Camry.
Really the Camry is looking over-priced to the Epica and I didn’t like the cheap and flimsy looking plastic of the centre console in the Camry, so Epica deservedly won my business.
I agree, the Epica is butt ugly. Holden have recently released the VE Commodore which is a world class looking car with performance but this cheap dim sim from korea is a step backwards. The Aussie dollar is over-valued, coupled with low import tariffs and no quotas the Australian auto manufacturing industry will perish in the near future. The Federal Govt. continues to sell Australia out and sign stoopid free trade agreements which only reduce our standard of living. At least we can now live in poverty and drive cheap crappy asian cars………aren’t we lucky?
Jack Yan siad, “I respect Hyundai. I think they make great cars. But Daewoo: I am not so sure”.
Mate sorry sorry Hyundai makes rubbish. The quality is low compared to Jap. or even Australian made cars, spare parts are expensive, re-sale is crap and performance is well…..about the same as a shopping trolley. Ever seen their cars after 5-6 years? The duco and plastic exterior look as good as a Lada. Hyundai is getting better but it still scores last in brand reliability. Plus their styling is just so ugly.
Have just cast my eyes over the Epica, sat in it, and just had a quite reflection. After almost 35 years in the motor trade, the quiet reflection on this “new” vehicle was ruined by the whole bucket of bolts screaming CAMIRA at me, remember them??
And no, I am not a brand junkie, I have seen citrus flavoured vehicles from most of the manufacturers by now, but this one has a more lemon than orange tang about it !!!
the new holden epica looks great its like a mini commodore wich is what more people are looking for these days 4 stars out of 5 good job holden
The problem is’nt with the product itself its the fact Holden has replaced all there existing models with inferior one’s, for example: the old XC Barina was replaced with the Daewoo Kalos and safety ratings went from 4 to 2 stars. Unfortunately GM wants Opel to provide cars for Saturn (USA only) and Daewoo’s will be Holdens. I used to be a loyal Holden supporter (since i started driving) but unfortunately have changed because of what Holden have done. Like I said before, the Daewoo product may not be that bad but Holden should not have replaced the Opel’s with inferior product its that simple! GM Holden believe they will beat Toyota with this idea yet sales are not proving this. Its so sad to see this once great company (Holden) reduced to rubble!
Today I test drive of the new epica holden.
It was a delight and great experience- the car was helded well, it is certainly a car I would consider to buy.
Well done Holden.
Hi all, I am sceptical about the new epica also. But i think it is only because it’s a Daewoo. In saying that back in 2000 i brought a Leganza because of price and features.
To this day it has been the most reliable car i have had. Other transport modes are a BA ute (dodgy front brakes and water pipe orings) and GSXR1000 K2, had it from new and have only hade one thing break- luv it. I have had 2 recalls- 1 for a software upgrade and one for the airflow sensor (i think). I did have issues in the first year with some broken plastics (door handle surround, passenger vanity mirror and a storage door)but these were replaced and have not had problems since.
I just replaced the origanal front brake pads, these were hard to get and had to resort to the terrible service at Toowoomba Holden( if i buy a new car from holden it will be a trip to Brizzy for me). $80 or so for them was harsh. So I hope i don’t have to replace anything else soon, oh the right headlight plastic has deteriorated to crap and i could only imagine what the price of a new one would be.
So the Leganza has been a very economical car with good equipment levels and reliability, but i still can’t explain why i not keen on a new Daewoo/Holden. Maybe i have been cought up in all the negative talk.
I am looking at buy a new car but it’s not worth trading the daewoo so i plan to let the daughter have it when she gets her licence soon, that is because i know she will then have a good first car. I have been overwhelmed in my search for a car in the upto 40k mark.
I think the Hyundai sonata is in the running for the same reasons as the Legnza but when i got in one for a look the coin tray door was broken so not a good start. Mazda 6 or 3 maybe! I think it’s easier not to buy a new car though.
Any way i’m dribbleing so i will have a look at what might be new leganza/epica because i think it doesn’t matter what car you buy you can still be the unlucky one who gets the lemon.
Thanks for sharing Tulky,
just one suggestion I have, I wouldn’t let me kids into a old Daewoo! Have you checked the Safety Rating on that car?
You can’t really put a price on your family’s life, it would make sense to buy a new 5 star small car for your daughter, as young ones are prone to crashes.
To Texas above: “Asian styling” involves everything from details to proportions and the fullness of panels. While Greenley did work on the Ssangyong Musso as you say, it is only natural that as the work is interpreted and literally moulded, the locals start putting their marks on. Or the designer himself intends for the product to suit management or its market. For example: Volvos were, till recently, styled by an Englishman, too, with the express intent that they have ‘Swedish’ design: simple surfaces, plain geometry.
I will concede that sort of discussion may be specialized, but I still believe that on a subliminal level, some may recognize the points without being aware of them. This is a parallel to why (most) people find serif fonts more formal and sans serif fonts more casual.
I still believe emotion comes into decisions as well as rationality, and that the Daewoo Tosca doesn’t stir any. If I had the choice between a rationally good car that doesn’t give me anything back and a rationally good car that does, I will buy the latter. This is not just about badging or badge snobbery, which is a related but different issue.
Have you not sat in a car wondering why it just gives you a sense of satisfaction, versus one that doesn’t? You might get that level of satisfaction from a Škoda and not a BMW—and in such a case I would opt for the Škoda.
“I mean really, how can Holden expect it’s excellent VE series of cars to be considered world-class when they have the same badge and sit in dealerships next to these toilets?”
There is no evidence that the Korea sourced vehicles are worse in terms of quality. Reliability of Korean vehicles according to quality surveys shows they are very reliable, not as much a Honda and Toyota but better than BMW, Mercedes, GM, and Ford. Also, Korean cars like the Holden Viva and Holden Captiva all have 4-stars, the same safety rating as the Holden Commodore.
Remember, just because the Commodore is made in Australia it doesn’t mean its parts all come from Australia. You’ll be surprised how many components in the Commodore come from Korea.
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“I will concede that sort of discussion may be specialized, but I still believe that on a subliminal level, some may recognize the points without being aware of them. This is a parallel to why (most) people find serif fonts more formal and sans serif fonts more casual.
“I still believe emotion comes into decisions as well as rationality, and that the Daewoo Tosca doesn’t stir any.”
Everyone’s different. Obviously many people do buy based on emotion, but emotions can be changed. This is why advertising exists.
Took the epica for a test drive to at least see for myself what all the fuss is about and its all true . It look and sounds great but its got not grunt, dead on any slight hill let alone the steep 1’s. No way Im a holden guy, but not this time test drived a new camary eltise not as quite but plenty enough grunt when you need it. Camry all the way CHEERS
I like it, few faults but… motor firstly average crap at best!
I think I will stick to Mercedes and Volvo.
With the quality surveys, how do they define a a problem?
I know if I drive a Japanese car, I have a problem.
The problem is where the indicator stalk is located.
This problem is not a reliabity issue or even a quality issue, but rather a user interface issue.
With some Mercedes cars, the parking brake location is in a non conventional place. For me, that is what I’m used to, but if I drove a different car, I’d get confused and for me that is a problem.
For me, a real problem (apart from user interface problems) is reliabilty of car etc
In summary, I’d like to know how the quality surveys for cars are conducted.
Do the surveys make apples with apples comparisons?
the new epica looks a bit messy.. but my uncle baught one and I just liked it. It had this power that pushes your face back –and– the engine rocked. It was so smooth, not like the outer-side of this veicle..
I found out from a Korean website that this car’s actual name is ‘tosca’ and that there is alot more cars that could choke the car dealers here.
nick folckes!
after you’ve seen the new cars in Korea, they will change your mind. (such as the–
-Korean cars that r-o-c-k =
-eqqus
-nf sonata
-opirus
-windstorm
-tosca
-the new chairman
and I could go on for days.
The Epica may be reliable and relatively efficient, but it simply lacks class. Headlights are obviously pirated from a BMW 5-Series, while the rear is plain ugly. The interior is bland and plastics galore with flat seats. Even the 2.5-liter V6 will be outran by a Corolla, which makes it hard to believe it’s Porsche engineered.
Koreans are kinda funny in automobile design. If there were an organisation evaluating the styling of cars before they’re released, SsangYong will certainly be out of business. Hyundai are also notorious in uglifying already decent looking cars, like the first generation Coupe and the Starex van. Now the Epica, as I have said, needs more originality and consistency in appearance.
I have no doubt the Seoul manufacturers will make their mark in the auto industry, but it’s just not now yet. They need more prestige and performance to really establish themselves against the benchmarks. The Epica may not be a bloody bad car as many people think, but it’s nowhere near very good either.
They say(koreans) that the epica looks ugly too.
Hey Paul you read the latest Wheels? An article on the Holden Epica against the Chrysler Sebrinng and Toyota Camry.Remember this is Wheels so it it comes to no surprise who came out on top ……..as usual.
Also a guy in the letters section going off at how many pages they went on about the new VE Ute compared to the TRD that he thought was “tucked away in the depths of the magazine” Oh and guess what another 6 pages on the VE Ute in this issue,so that will really piss the guy off!
Oh and Alborz Wheels compares a VE SS against the Rex,again who do you think came out on top?
I love wheels, I buy it just for the laugh. Great Magazine if you love Holden though…
Yep, Wheels might as well be owned by Holden.
This may be purely subjective (.ie. my opinion on looks) but I can’t stand it when the headlights or taillights go halfway up the bonnet or boot. I always thought the Mondeo from (7 or 8 years ago), with its almost boot length taillights, looked like rubbish for this reason, and the Epicrap has this same style in the headlights.
New Mondeo looks very classy tho and I’m betting it’s quality is way over the Epicrap.
Thats right, I thought wheels seemed to say more good stuf about Holdrolet than Ford.
Holdenwoo, shame on you for giving us more Korean crapness, just can’t be forgiving for making people think this is true blue, this rebadged crapica (disguised daewoo) will NOT mean alot to Australia, at least you are getting 10 year old technology… Fukkkkkkkkk
Well there is a lot of emotion in car choice, and I know for a fact that I’ll never buy a GM product again after my first taste. I was given an EJ for my first car. It seemed like an “old car” at the time, vintage really and I wasn’t too disconcerted when I dicovered that there were absolutely zero parts available for it from Holden. None, zilch nada nothing. However what seemed “old” to a 16 year old kid, now as a 45 year old doesn’t seem that old. The car was at the time only 14 years old. I’ve got 3 registered vehicles right now, none are GM, but my oldest is a suzuki. An import, and currently 22 years old. I live in the country and I’ve found that every single part I’ve ever needed has been delivered to me next business day at the latest and most delivered same day. Not that I’ve needed many parts. This car has *never* failed to get me to my destination *ever*. While my mate’s SV6 commodore spends more time at the dealers than in his garage, and we don’t need to mention the fact that my EJ broke down constantly, over heated when driven at more than 40 miles an hour, was more bog than steel, burned nearly as much oil as petrol and spun a mainbearing three months after getting it back on the road after a ground up rebuild. (ie. it was completely stuffed, I rang a wreckers who took it away for free). You may “love” your holdens, but comparing them to proper cars… They’re just a joke. Especially the “all new” commodore that uses an engine designed before the Vincent Black Shadow….
The car would match up with a taxi driver,with what they charge to go to point A,and B.Just a cheap mock up.
It’s not that the Epica is bad, its just ordinary in most area’s and poor in some. The motor was a bad call, its really just not up to it. The engineering is old and cannot cater for ESP. Handling and feel are also issues.
Holden has done some good work where possible tho, the handling could be much worse, and the suspension does a pretty good job as well in term of ride comfort. The motor is in some circumstances fairly quite and refined, on others the trannie is having a fit.
Daewoo build quality and reliability have mostly always been an issue, partic after 50000 kms as a general rule, when sadly buyers most likely will be out of warranty. It’s not a matter of whether the vehicle has been put together nicely(not to bad from reports) but will is stay together??
Sadly, historical indicators are that it wont.
This is a tarted up Tosca, not a safe as MOST rivals, does not have the handling and power of MOST rivals, does not have the historical build quality and motor reliablilty of MOST rivals. The bottom line engineering on this vehicle is nearly 10 years old. Think about it, does a cheap Korean car loaded with goodies, no engine performance and limited handling abilities sound 90′ish to you guys :)
I have just purchased a epica cdxi. I was actually after the VE but the epica was in a class of it own for the price. the omega didnt have 17′ alloys, leather interior, 6 cd stacker, MP3 compatible, full electrics. you ask most people and they would expect these as common components on a car that is worth 30k+. When i hopped into the VE it just said “basic” but when i sat and then drove the epica it said luxury. For the price of the CDXi you will be hard pressed to find a car that has as many features as it.
I Have also just Purchased an EPICA cdxi
I’m agree with Windy The proofs in the Pudding!
Go for a Test drive before you spray this Value for Money vehicle!
A lot of Toyota’s are made in Thailand as is the Mini Minors etc etc
Most of all you buy these days is out of some Asian Country’s
I’ve been Driving for Thirty Seven Years and have Driven Hundreds of Different Cars and this Epica is up there with the Best!
My Two cents worth
Regards tall poppies.
I feel sorry for all the suckers who have bought the crapica and didn’t do thier homework, now ugly crapica has produced bad sales for Holden and resale value keep’s rocketing down :-)hahahahaha, Ford Mondeo kicks Holden (GM-DAEWOO) ass to the kerb, gee wizz that must hurt….
Dont worry Greg, Holden has great plans that may be better than fords mondeo!
Gregory, can I HAVE SOME OF THOSE DRUGS YOU ARE TAKING?
The epica is an example of devolution, this is car going backwards in time. You were a fool to buy it.
I have an Epica 2008 Model and I have a big complain: after 2-3 km the front wheel (rim) become hot. The dealer said that is normal for this model, but….
Maybe is a bad car.
On the web site I cannot send any complain to manufacture.
Go to consumer affairs Jean.. Holden rebadge cars so it’s not a Holden in the first place it’s called false advertising…
The Epica looks better than the falcon range
“Anyway, last friday at the Brisbane International Motorshow, the Epica was unveiled, and my god was it ugly!”
Sorry CarAdvice but I don’t find this (the Epica) ugly it’s quite good looking!
It’s not awe-inspiring, but it’s hardly ugly. It’s very Camry, Aurion sort of bland.
The AU Falcon, now THAT was ugly.
In my work I get to drive most makes of cars and I was impressed recently by the smoothness and quiteness of the 6 cylinder Holden Epica I has the use of for several days.
It handled undulations and bumps in the road at least as well as any late model Holden or Falcon,was also quieter on the highway as well as being a much cheaper vehicle to purchase.
Maybe It could have done with a bit more power but unless you are a lead foot this would not worry you.
Every day the Epica (Daewoo Tosca) remains on sale it damages the Holden brand further. No ESP even in the “high end” models, dull dreary underpowered engines, dreadful resale values and in terms of ride handling dynamics it is completely outclassed by the competition.