Porsche returns to ‘Ring with new 911
June 18, 2008 by George Skentzos
Following the release of the next generation 911, Porsche has returned to the Nurburgring to settle a grudge.
With the Nissan GT-R setting the benchmark at an incredible 7:29, and a limit of 7:59 set by the Cadillac CTS-V to avoid humiliation, there was certainly very little room for error.
The announcement of the figures says it all, revealed only to a small gathering of press at a media event in Germany.
According to Porsche, it recorded three different lap times from three separate vehicles including the current 911 Carrera S as a benchmark.
In third place was expectedly the aforementioned benchmark Carrera S, which lapped the Nordschleife race circuit in 8 minutes and 2 seconds – just shy of the CTS-V’s lap time, but heroically sporting less than two-thirds of the power.
Next up in second position came the brand new 2009 model 911 Carrera S with the standard manual transmission, completing a lap in 7:58 – a second quicker than the Caddy.
Finally, in first place was the 2009 Carrera S with Porsche’s new twin-clutch automated manual Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) transmission, featuring PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) and performance tyres.
This set the fastest lap time of 7 minutes and 50 seconds – eight seconds faster than the manual variant but still a far cry from the GT-R.
According to Porsche, the PDK shifts 60 percent faster than the former Tiptronic S automatic, and offers a small improvement in fuel economy over the six-speed manual-equipped 911.
Now while the GT-R’s lap time has still eluded Porsche, Nissan should certainly be worried with the “entry level” 911’s showing such great form on the track – and the Turbo, GT2 and GT3 still to come.
Source: Edmunds
Tags: Porsche 911
all the best to Porsche however Nissan still far cheaper and prove to be a great car. However Porsche has its own style.
Back when we raced karts, there were plenty of fantastic lap times being claimed by the competitors leading up to a big race event. You could hear the disbelief all through the pits – so&so did such&such a fantastic lap time, how the hell can we match that, etc, etc.
Problem was, when it came to the racing, those fantastic times were never seen (until the leadup to the next State Championships or Nationals.)
That’s great porsche. Now, if you can also reduce the price to the same level of the GT-R, then we can start comparing both of you.
So are you saying Nissan also falsified their times? Your experience doesn’t relate because where talking about automotive manufacturers with millions behind them, not some backyards boys playing with kitty karts.
Back to the article. Even though the GT-R is a great performance car, over a lap after lap race with equal drivers I’d put my money on the 911. Simply it’s lighter (by heaps), would be easier on it’s brakes and tyres, probably has the more consistent and stronger engine Porsche has proven it’s relailty time and time again in production car racing. Therefore by the end of the race the 911 should have the GT-R stiched up (if the GT-R is even still running). Just take a look at most Targa and tarmac rally events. 911’s are always at the pointy end even with their fat cat crap rich drivers. EVO’s also do well here. GT-R’s are usualy less consistant in these type of events. Weight is what will kill the new GT-R in a track race.
John, Im sure if comes to racing, a racespec version will be made out from the GTR (stripped down etc), no car with Subwoofers as standard is built specifically for racing, wait till the Specs come out…
While both cars are seriously quick, there is one area where the 911 has it all over the GTR… style. Next to this the GTR looks, well… like any other rice burning, body kit wearing, designed with a ruler Nissan or Mitsu EVO. If only they could design a car that looks good from the start, without the need for the spoilers, splitters, big blacked out sections and holes.
WTF?? the GTR competes with the 911 AWD TURBO, not the 2WD NA Carrera’s. Of course they will be slower.
And of course I’m not talking about pricing. Because a Porsche will always be more expensive than a Nissan regardless of performance.
My 2PSI
@John:
I know the R35 has so far been shit on the track in Aus, But last time I checked Newman’s R32 was punishing the competition in Dutton. Given the heritage of the GTR namesake, I wouldn’t be surprised if the R35 proves to be quite a capable car. I agree that the 911 is exceptional, but I like the underdog. Best thing in the GT series is that little Exige taking on the F430’s and 911’s.
@Dlr1:
Um…you’re aware that splitters/spoilers/canards and the like all serve a purpose? Like the fact the GTR has a Cd of 0.27 (same as a Prius, which is odd given the Prius is hideous and the GTR isn’t).
Just because a bunch of P-platers slap spoilers on their cars doesn’t detract from the functionality of aero kits. Have you looked at F1 or touring car series recently? Noticed the size of the front air dams/spoilers/splitters?
I watched fast lane daily on youtube on 13/06, new gtr vspec is coming out with engine upgrades and lighter body weight.
Wait till the 911 tubro laps the track, as much as I love Nissan, I’d happily pay more for the 911 turbo, you just can’t compare!
As some said, yes the class and prestige that is a Porsche exceeds that of a Nissan…
engineering wise its pretty much benchmarked to the T, so apart from patented technology and such, both are top notch in that department..
Practicality of course, you can have passengers in a GTR and do your shopping in it too…. so points there.
The tune-capability of the GTR is also higher, although the transmission might be limited, I have not heard anything bad about it, except some people prefer manual as its more engaging.
They did a comparo- here in the states, between the M3, Porsche 911 and the GTR…
M3 won… but not for outright performance… it was the slowest out of the 3… but the results factored in that M3 was the better everyday drive (No $hit!, its a luxury performance), better interior comfort (again No $hit!)…. and good enough performance (yes, for everyday it would be as there are speed limits and stop signs to consider, but on a track and outright capability, M3 chassis is great but straight from factory, the porsche and gtr is better)
GTR finsihed first in terms of performance, brake distance, 0-60 miles etc….
GTRmon, i’m not saying the aero bits aren’t functional, sometimes they are just plain ugly. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but can anyone honestly say the GTR is beautiful? Powerful, agressive, puposeful? Yes Yes Yes. An automotive work of art? No. More sledgehammer than scalpel.
Allborz, same goes with i’d pay extra for a Bugatti Veyron over the 911 turbo, you can’t compare either…
Agree with Grant, lets see the test results from the turbo first!
I don’t understand why everyone is comparing a Porsche to a Nissan.
But its quite obvious those duel clutch transmission gearboxes shifting time over such a large track makes a substantial difference.
Hence why cars like the ZR1 that are much faster in the real world are still slightly ousted by the GTR, because using a proper manual gearbox is apparently a disadvantage in this day and age.
So porsche has been beaten around the ring. Ouch thats got to hurt.
GTRmon – The only issue the GTR’s have had on Australian tracks so far is the lack of R-comp tyres in 20 inch sizing.
The Donut King GTR tried to run targa on the standard tyres – it was always going to be an epic fail. So dont count that.
The Fabcar GTR did a low 55 short track on debut on those tyres, while the record for a genuine street car on r-comps is 53.9 by a highly modded Evo 9 MR – carbon fibre doors, no interior, motec m800 full ohlins suspension, endless brake package, etc etc…
This is at Barbagallo BTW.
By no means is the GTR slow around a track. R-comps will make that time up I’d say.
I beleive it was Nissan who began comparing themselves to the almighty Porsche brand, and their lap times of the ring. Now porsche replies, and the usual excuse of the price is Nissan fans defence… Great car Nissan, but, a Porsche will always be a Porsche.
Adrian… ahh not sure if you read the above?
How did Porsche reply being substantially slower?
Tom, thats a carrera S, wait till the turbo, gt’s then comment again.
Nissan made that because the 911 is on top of the tree (for a street car that looks like a street car) for the Nurb, GTR knocked it off. They werent comparing the style, desire of the car and all that swank that make a porche more wanted, but on raw performance.
Porsche won’t go down quietly to Nissan. However, these aren’t 998 Porsches are they? Just the minor same generation update to the 997, isn’t it?
Autogyro it might be an update but the engine is all new.
my opinion. gtr = excellent. porsche = excellent. my pick, the porsche :)
Tom, you forgot to mention that the Donut King R35 is slow due its shithouse driver.
I personally rather like the look of the R35, probably more than the 911 turbo, which is much better than the Carrera (turd-like things).
I appreciate the huge amount of engineering and development that has gone into the R35. I know Porsche has obviously put a fair bit of effort into the 911 for the last 40 years; but the R35 means more. It’s got a number of new features which are impressive: the transfer case, carbon fibre driveshaft, ceramic coated cylinders.
If I had the money, I’d be all over the GTR like a cheap suit from Lowes. The 911 turbo on the other hand, I’d be too tempted to fork out the cash for something else similarly priced.
GTRmon, you are in love GTR and that is respected, but there are those who are lovers of 911 from more than 40 years ago. GTR can have excellent technology and you can praise this car and say anything you like about it, but the 911 is trascendecia of generation after generation … their progress and technology defy the physical laws of motion … as a 6-cylinder engine in rear position can have so much stability, agility and power, not only that but also use it every day …
The 911 is facinacion, passion, history and is the result of the effort of hundreds of Engineering who have been working over time in different decades, winning thousands of races. Thanks to all that effort and experience you can say that a Porsche is a porsche.
GTR is novel and is very good, but not a 911 …
The price for people knowledgeable and have money to buy a 911 is irrelevant.
Do I really understand?
If you do not understand that, then expected to leave the new 911 turbo and understand …
ATTE. Evolucion Porsche … :)