Hybrid and diesel Commodores two years away
19 May, 2008
191 Comments 
2010 Holden Commodore hybrid and diesel
The boss of General Motors Asia Pacific has said that hybrid and diesel powered Holden Commodores are only two years away.
At a media briefing in Melbourne today (Monday) GM Group Vice President and President of GM Asia Pacific, Mr Nick Reilly, said that the new power trains for the Holden Commodore could come to market as soon as 2010.
Mr Reilly, who is in Melbourne for the corporations quarterly regional board meeting and to review current and future product with senior Asia pacific executives revealed the future product plans as part of a wide-ranging discussion on Australian car market.
Suggesting that not only hybrid and diesel models were under consideration Mr Reilly made it clear that GM Holden would sustain interest in its large car product by developing a range of fuel options.
He also openly cited LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) , CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) and E85 (85% ethanol/petrol blend) as options that needed to be considered as viable “short-term” options for powering motor vehicles in all markets.
Mr Reilly said GM was working across a range of technologies and added that LPG and E85 would probably be the quickest to market.
However, he added that diesels were a priority – ‘we already have diesels in several of our cars in Australia’.
“We don’t yet have diesel in Commodore but that will come, “ he said. “As for hybrids, again we will introduce them in the next couple of years.”
As well as revealing that diesel and hybrid variants of the Commodore were under development, Mr Reilly also suggested that GM’s turbo four-cylinder petrol ECOTEC powerplant, already suggested as an option for the Chevrolet Camaro that’s been developed for the North American market in Australia, was a possibility for the Commodore.
Asked if the turbo four-cylinder petrol engine could be used in the Commodore in the future, Mr Reilly, replied:” that is certainly a sensible suggestion. It makes a lot of sense and therefore we are probably looking at it”.
He refused to be drawn further on the prospect of a four-cylinder Commodore.
His statements follow the recent announcement by new Ford Australia President Bill Osbourne that the Falcon would get a diesel engine in 2010 and come as Toyota grapples with pressure from the Federal Government to build a hybrid Camry in Australia.
Mr Reilly admitted that GM had dropped the ball on hybrid passenger cars, favouring development in large displacement engines, such as those used in heavy vehicles, and had given archrival Toyota a clear run with vehicles such as the Prius.
He said GM had not recognised immediately that the car buying public would pay for the application of hybrid technology in smaller engine vehicles, where the fuel efficiencies were much smaller.
“Our strength in hybrids has tended to be in larger vehicles,” he said.
Mr Reilly added that a hybrid Commodore could be one of the first GM hybrids on the market, adding that he would put a timeframe of “a couple of years” on it.
Mr Reilly added that there was not a priority on hybrid versus diesel, saying: “Honestly I think we need both.”
“I think we need to offer a variety if different answers and we are able to do that as part of GM worldwide.”
The green light to hybrid and diesel Commodores appeared to take other GM executives at the briefing by surprise and GM Holden Managing Director Mark Reuss has not yet announced anything confirming the proposals.
Mr Reilly’s public support for the proposals certainly means they will get a strong hearing within the company’s product planning forums. Holden engineers have been working on both diesel and hybrid power trains for some time, but have previously received little support from the wider GM.
David Twomey
Location: Home / Hybrid, Holden, Holden VE Commodore, Diesel, Car News / ...
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May 19th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Interesting…
Anti-spam word is “Faster” but im thinking this will be “slower”…..
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May 19th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Goodbye Falcon.
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May 19th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
they have all ready got the Ecodore in a museum
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May 19th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Diesel commodor -two years away - they must be joking. Honestly how long can it take to the buy a manufacturers engine (VM italy) and lift it ino the Commie. Don’t forget Opel had diesel Omega (Euro Commodor) year back so its been done. I would admit the Hybrid bit, due to batteries, is in reality some way off but engineering a simple diesel to in an engine bay is toadys knowledge.
It begs the question what have Holden been doing for the last year or two. Obviouly nothing but watching the competition run away over the horizon. I question the leadership!!
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
No Name, i dont see any diesel powered falcons or aurions driving over the horizon buddy! Holden will be the first of the aussies to have diesels, and it looks like the first to have hybrids, yet you still find a reason to criticise?
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Finally a diesel Commodore. Hey TP Ford has hinted they may have a 2.7 diesel in the pipeline for the Falcon. Maybe this will mean they may both live on in the wake of the petrol price doom.
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
I would be interested to know how the diesel motor from the Captiva would go in the Commodore. It’s there now and apparently moves the Captiva along respectably.
More food for thought: the 3.2 litre HFV6 from the Captiva could be a nicer base engine for the Omega. Yes, more expensive, as I think its features are on par with the 195 kw 3.6, but probably nicer, and would probably give the immediate fuel economy benefits everyone’s looking for.
Okay, just thinking aloud. Direct injection’s on its way, as is the death of the 4 speed and if we have to wait 2 years for diesel and hybrids, the wait could be worth it.
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Has anyone considered the price of diesel
Here where I live it’s $1.74.9
20 cents dearer than unleaded petrol
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Jimbo - That 2.7 litre donk for the Falcon as in the Jag by a 3.0litre donk. So mayby thats the one for the Falcon as its currently in the UK Ranger
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Exactly farmer, that and the additional cost at purchase tends to get overlooked in favour of “rideing on waves of torque…” scenario.
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
sorry meant to say the 2.7 being replaced by a 3.0litre. apologies
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I don’t think any Aussie manufacturer would develop a hybrid without the assistance of government funds.
Our market is just too small to develop a hybrid.
I say they will use technology from overseas - probably the US.
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May 19th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Richo - I could argue but my point is made. Holden are too slow in realising the market. Two years time with diesel/petrol prices rising daily diesel may not be the way to go then. Perhaps not a criticism just an observation.
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Of course, Ford already supply a large, modern, diesel-powered sedan - the Mondeo. I saw one as a taxi for the first time a few days ago.
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May 20th, 2008 at 6:23 am
what the hell are they doing thtey already make a 2.7 litere v6 hy not use that for gods sake in 2006 they siad ther would be a diesel option
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May 20th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Golfshwien, it would be a false economy to put the 3.2 V6 in the commodore the little torque to 3.6 has would be non existant in the 3.2 and the driver would constantly be “into” it to keep it up with traffic.
Need an example? Just look at the falcon with its beefy 4.0 using 10.1 litres versus the 3.6 commodores 11 odd litres. The falcons engine torque is perfectly suited to move 1.7odd tonnes. or maybe you’d prefer a 4cyl SUV that people are mistakenly moving into under the premise that because its a four cylinder it’ll use less. Um, no.
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:08 am
how will future backwards hat P plater kids modify their commodores????
bigger generators?
propane injection on the diesels…. hey theres an idea
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:10 am
the 2.0 litre they are talking about is the one which will be a option in the new camoro it’s a 2.0 direct injected turbo which produces 194KW and 353NM, not a bad option, soon all gm engines will have direct injection. even gm’s ls3 will got direct injection.
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Ethanol blend fuels are not even a short term option. They are a pipedream option. Anything that competes for land with the production of food is not a way to power our transportation.
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:44 am
GM needs to stop issuing press releases and actually develop the technology. BMW came out of no where with its recent hybrid releases.
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Ford already have the diesel lined up 2010 for the
Territory who would think its NOT going to be dropped into the Falcon only a D*ckhead.
Till then all Falcon models except for the G6ET
get the E-Gas(Dedicated LPG) engine
as a Factory option.
GO FORD
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I am a great believer in the diesel option, but first we need to improve the quality of the diesel (sulphur content)fuel in Australia.
I believe this article is nothing more than a fishing exercise by GMH. Both Ford and Holden, if they wanted to could put a diesel motor in their large cars now, but of course GM and Ford America have to OK it first. Our boys (GMH and Ford Aust.) are slowly sinking into the sunset while their parent companies in the US are trying to figure out what to do.
As for the Japanese car companies, Toyota, Nissan, etc. the only diesels they have are ones in their 4X4’s and they are small fry when compared with the Mercs, Audi, BMW’s etc in Europe.
Reality is GMH and Ford Aust need to look at Europe for direction not the USA/Japan. Our big car industry which is the Commodore, Falcon and Aurion/Camry might go down the sink if they don’t change dirction now.
If you want a good option then consider a 2.5 litre direct injection turbo diesel which also has LPG injected into it. This is and Australia design and it works extremely well.
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Holden and Ford could introduce stop start tech in the mean time and it would be a better solution than having to wait for 2 yrs only find more and more delays….. i mean when has a project gone as per the original plan…. diesel is very expensive and thats fine for some people i guess, but even thats bound to run out sometime…
bio fuel is a good gimmick … but frankly i would take “food” over “fuel for my car” anyday…. Holden jumped on the Hybrid bandwagon after Toyota revealed plans to build hybrid camrys’ in australia…
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:37 am
LOL… they’re considering bringing back a 4cyl Commodore? Who remembers the breathtaking Starfire 4? Hahahahaha!!!
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Where’s the diesel/hybrid camry/aurion!?
Thought so…
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Blue Blood Says: Ford already have the diesel lined up 2010 for the
Territory who would think its NOT going to be dropped into the Falcon only a D*ckhead.
The problem with the 2.7 diesel that Ford has access to is that while being a fantastic engine it is an expensive one. It mainly powers premium cars at the moment like the top of the range Pug 407 and LR Discovery where it adds $6K - $14K to the price. I suggest that if it is offered in a Falcon or the Territory it will be at the higher end of the model range.
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May 20th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Agree with Tony M. Stop start technology would be good.
although I dont think it mixes to well with turbocharged engines.
One question: who will buy a $45k hybrid commodore that will use about 7litres per100 with a 0-100 in the 11 second bracket?
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May 20th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Naughtyius Maximus…….if your out there please keep us up dated on the hydrogen on demand system that you installed on your Falcon ute!!!! quite a few bloggers are interested in what sort of results you are getting!!!
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May 20th, 2008 at 10:32 am
I think the CNG Natural Gas option is one that should be pushed - Ive seen plenty of taxis that run on this fuel, and it doesnt seem to worry them. Every home that gets Natural gas can refuel their own car at night - epsecially with all the gas fields this country has!
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May 20th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Snowman, you’re absolutely correct we are supposed to have 100 years supply of natural gas if we were to keep it strategically for internal consumption BUT our corrupt governments are giving the stuff away to China and Japan for 5 cents a litre and we have to pay 60 cents for LPG!!!
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May 20th, 2008 at 10:50 am
apparently the VF commodore update will be all about fuel economy. There will be some cosmetic bits and peices and they will no doubt ramp up the suspension tuning to match the FG falcon, but the main deal will be fuel economy. To that regard you can expect direct injection on all V6 models, displacement on demand on all V8 models, and possibly a 6 speed auto accross the entire range, even for omega. Although the more likely option is 5 speed auto for omega and 6 speed for the rest.
I don’t think it was any secret that a diesel would lob in 2010, but a hybrid? thats a bit new, but then again, they did do a hybrid comodore demo a few years back so clearly they have had it atleast in the back of their minds for quite a while now
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May 20th, 2008 at 11:40 am
60cent/L for LPG Carl? I wish! I’ve been paying 71.9 since a week before Xmas. We are getting gouged, but that’s nothing new.
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May 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Trackdaze, I was really just thinking aloud. Months ago, WHEELS ran an article on the potential fuel economy gains for Commodore by comparing differing technology and options. Yes, the smaller engine would yield no more than a 5% economy gain. The thing is, it would be sweeter to drive than the base 3.6 and the GM man who made the announcement says engine rationalisation is the key. At least, it did in Carpoint’s story.
So, something’ll get the chop. As the 3.2V6 in the Captiva travels the world, and the 3.6V6 base engine growls away in Omegas and Berlinas, I imagine the latter will go sooner.
Who knows, direct injection could sweeten all of them up, assuming the right things are done with harmonics to counter the increased noise from the new injection system.
With new trannies as well, it’ll be a whole different ball game.
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Morning guys……….hands up who wants a hybrid Holden??mmmm Bout as many as those that will want a Hybrid BMW……not many! Then again beats driving the worlds ugliest hybrid……Prius
Diesel could be interesting especially if their getting their
technology from BMW who put their hand up to help GM in the states.
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Oh, good morning Bavarian Missile. Lovely day up in the snow country?
I reckon there’ll be a market for hybrid Commodore for sure. And if the numbers for Australian sales don’t make the cut, what the heck! Spread the numbers to the Americas (North and South, remember - check out www.chevrolet.com.br and find Omega) and the Middle East!
The Yanks’d take to a Pontiac G8 with a hybrid set-up like apple pie .
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
MMMM,true forgot about the Americans.they do love their Hybrids…
back later time to chat to Wheelnut whos now at lunch!
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Watto-Cobra…..actually I’m paying 60.9 at my local independent and 57.9 at my local shell if i happen to have a 4 cent docket or else it’s 61.9, still it seems a lot cheaper than where you live….I’m in the inner city of Sydney but around the south west I’ve seen it couple of cents cheaper! the other day where i filled up petrol was 149 cents and diesel was 170 cents, that’s pretty rough for people trying to do the right thing and switching to diesel!
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Golfsy, captiva v6 weigh’s about the same as a commodore its official fuel use is 11.6…think the commodore is 11.2. thats the official fiqure in real life it’d use allot more than the commodore because the engine would have to have its neck rung. Autoweb www.autoweb.com.au tested one and returned 14.5litres they also cited the engine was course,gravelly just like the 3.6.
Like i said its about platform efficiency. Same reason a 1.8 corolla is a false economy as compared to its 2.0competitors.
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Carl, I’m at Albury-Wodonga. It was 54.9 before Xmas. I was expecting the price to go back down after New Years. No such luck
Looking back through my log, I’ve paid an extra $193 so far this year at 71.9 instead of 54.9. Still cheaper than fuel, I guess.
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Golfschwein - and there it is! Thats why GM would be keen to do a hybrid Commodore, because pontiac would be able to sell more hybrid G8’s then they could possibly get their hands on!
Interestingly, the hybrid drive system that GM uses in some of its larger american models was co-developed with BMW and Merceedes, and is the same system that BMW and Mercedes will be using in future years. The main difference between it and the toyota system is that rather then having a completely seperate petrol engine, electric engine and gearbox, the GM/BMW/Mercedes system integrates the electric motor into the gearbox, maining its exactly the same in many respects as a conventional drivetrain in the sense that a petrol engine bolts to a gearbox that bolts via a driveshaft to a diff. Obviously bootspace and a spare wheel will be lost to accomodate batteries so run flats will probably be required for this car, but it could be pretty cool
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May 20th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Life is all about compromises you pay a bit more for fuel but I’m sure life’s a lot simpler in a large country town like Albury! One day I’ll get out of the Sydney rat race if it’s the last thing i do!!! Cheers mate….
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May 20th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Yeah Starfire Four wasn’t that a half Rs Holden engineering
adventure. Take an ancient 2.85lite cast Iron OHV straight six and cut two cylinders off with a mig. Fit xu1 conrods and raise the redline from 4800 to 6000rpm. Fit the impossible to tune varajet carby and u have an engine that won’t idle smoothly under 1100rpm. They did last forever though.
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May 20th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
forgot to mention the water injection on the Commodore version. The version in the Corona produced two less kilowatts but was nearly as smooth as a jap ohc four.
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May 20th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
dough.air injection
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May 20th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I want to get the out of Sydney too!
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May 20th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
for the premium you pay on diesel, the extra expense of a diesel motor and the sluggish performance compared to their ptrol counterparts i really cant see who apart from green fleet operators would buy one especially when no real savings to the fuel bill is made. i feel sorry for anyone getting stuck with one of these for a company car becasue the company they work for wants to improve its green image.
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
the hybrid i guess makes more sence because as stated by Richo the yanks will go crazy over it
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Who give a crap
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
JP: I don’t know which diesel you are talking about but the European diesel leave all others for dead. Economical, servicing etc. They also have a tendency to go for 100,000s of kilometres.
The reason they are so heavy is because they run close to 22 to 1 compression and need to be bullit proof.
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
im not doubting their reliability for a second as i know other wise. and in europe where diesel is a cheaper ulternative to petrol i have no doubt they are economical. but hear we pay such a high premium for diesel fuel i wonder if it would be economical at all.
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Good!
Holden did the concept of the ECOmmodore on the VT before, remember anybody?
But good the first diesel (probaly) and maybe hybrid aussie car!
I hope holden offers a V6 diesel and the V8 turbo diesel also!
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Realcars: The Starfire and the XU1 are different rods, the Starfire is the stronger one of the two, hence why the are commonly used in high-po Holden sixes.
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May 20th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
The real issue Holden will have to deal with is the same one their V6 in the VE is dealing with now: Lack of low-end torque, so you have to rev the engine till it sounds like a blender filled with stones before it moves.
Hybrid - Electric engine can deliver Torque from 0 RPM while petrol engine can do the rest up at highr speets
Diesel - Great low end torque (esp if they go Turbo Diesel) but will restrict the overall RPM & KW output
4 Cyl - Can tune them look like a V6 or I6 on paper but even with a turbo they lack the low-end torque needed to pull a heavy car like the commy.
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May 20th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Duck, it will definetly be a V6 turbo diesel, however holden i very much doubt will be putting a V8 turbo diesel in any time soon. I think they will be stretched enough with a V6 petrol, V6 diesel, V8 and hybrid drivetrains. It costs alot of cash to engineer so many different drivetrains and i think 4 is probably the limit for the time being. Maybe the major VE upgrade (after the minor VF update) due in 2014 might see a 5th engine, but certainly not anytime soon
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May 20th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
TP, your one liners astound me.
Ford have already announced a Turbo Diesel Falcon for 2010.
Just like the Prius, the long term running costs (ie Battery replacements costing $5000) will most likely scare off some from buying hybrids.
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May 20th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Not to mention rubbishing diesels….
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May 20th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Senator: latest reports say that the Camaro won’t be offered with the Turbo 4cyl.. due to a bad reception from GM fans etc on various auto-blog websites in the USA.
The majority of whom said it goes against the image of the original classic Camaro.. they would however; accept a V6
I guess well have to wait until production starts in a couple of years which rumours suggest could be at Elizabeth as they are apparently looking at expanding the factory
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May 20th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Welcome to the 21st century GM.
I agree with Snowman and Carl. CNG is a good long-term solution. Shame the government is another slave to OPEC. We should have our own CNG industry and have aussie made cars running dedicated engines. The government should also give tax credits to air and electric powered cars built here.
*SIGH*
Its time for me to wake up now. We all know the government isn’t proactive.
Well……………….
I’ve got a push bike for when I can’t afford fuel any more!!!
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May 20th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Bucket, TP astounds everybody wit his total crap comments. Ford will have diesel Falcon and Territory around 2010 and with Hybrid technology in the American Ford Escape could have that as well. TP……..just go away and sit by yourself in a TRD HI-Lux…….a joke sitting inside a joke !!!!
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May 20th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Agreed F6,
TP- grow up and leave the inflammatory comments out.
Ford announced two months ago they will have a TDi Falcon/Tezza in 2010…
I’ve actually seen you be constructive with comments before…sometimes I wonder if there are a few people acting as TP on here…
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
JP - Go and educate yourself regarding diesels, you\’re wrong on all counts. For starters modern diesels are producing the same if not more power than an equivalent petrol, they produce less CO2 (25%), go about 25 to 30% further on a litre. Generally go further between services (up to 32K km) between services, and theres loads of wooshy torque to play with.
The negatives are: -
-they cost more to purchase $2-3K
-Diesel fuel as you know cost 15% more to buy
-they produce more NOX (attributable to acid rain)than petrol in their early years but less as they get older.
-they burn more engine oil (mine uses about a litre between 32k services)
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Bucket,
ford actually announced diesel terry and falcon about 12 months ago.
i dont see why this article lays credit to the new CEO for the diesel committment.
perhaps he has just re released that in a speech or something, because it was announced before Billy boy took over.
gee people have short memories
the real reason a diesel falcon and commy isnt here yet is because it would be a lesson in false economy
whats the best a diesel falcon would get?
say 8.0L at the absolute best. thats a saving of 2L/100k.
and to save that 2L you would have to pay 30c more for your fuel and 4K more during the initial purchase.
the thing would never save you a cent, let alone pay off your investment.
i say a dedicated LPG vehicle with a decent brain injecting the stuff would be a far better way to invest a bit of development.
ford is 3/4 of the way there but are just lacking a better computer. yes the current one is good and proven to save serious bucks, but it could be so much better by the use of the latest Vapour tech that is already on our shores.
a decent vapour system in the falcon could see it match both power and economy of its petrol relative
come on Carl, give us a yeee haaar in favour of LPG. (you know you want to)
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
There is nothing unique in getting a diesel engine from some Diesel engine supplier. Nearly all the Japanese & Euro manufacturers have diesel engine options in other markets. As far as what I have read before 2010 Mazda, Honda, Nissan & Mitsubishi will have clean next generation Diesel engines in most of their Australian sold Models.
Direct injection engines are not new technology first direct injection engine was developed by Bosh in 1952 for Mercedes-Benz 300SL. In the 1990s Mitsubishi perfected the GDI and patented it, built over million GDI engines for Europe and Asian markets. So Holden is not doing anything new with the Direct Injection engine.
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May 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Agree with Andrew M,
Also,Diesel and Petrol is a scarce resource, the diesel option is a short term fix on their behalf in an attempt to recover from their dwindling profits over the years.
Give 3-5 years people will be trying so hard to get out of the oil based products.
The go is Alternatives, like LPG atm. major investments in technology into LPG, Electric, Hydrogen is the go to secure a future. Just what if the Middle East goes into crisis tomorrow and the oils run dry?
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May 21st, 2008 at 2:40 am
Very interesting post..
But I think the discussions going on got me thinking even more.. : ]
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May 21st, 2008 at 3:50 am
Andrew M…..i can’t disagree with anything you’ve said in your previous post! in fact it makes so much sense that i’m afraid it just won’t happen.
if Ford was to invest just a small amount compared to developing a Hybrid or even adapting that brilliant V6 diesel in the Jag on developing an LPG system that doesn’t lose power and incorporates it to the Territory and the Turbo models then even the snobs that turn their noses up at LPG now, won’t be able to criticize it anymore!!!
i have no answer to why LPG is ignored by so many people, it’s baffling because most of those people are under all sorts of financial stresses and constantly complaining about how expensive petrol and diesel is yet we have BRILLIANT fuel that’s ready to go “NOW” and can be made in OZ without sending our dollars off to the middle east….it’s called LPG “WAKE UP PEOPLE” and smell the Co2!
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May 21st, 2008 at 8:15 am
Andrew M Says: May 20th, 2008 at 8:45 pm…….Diesels and LPG, etc, etc
NM response……BULLSEYE DEAD BANG SMACKO 100% PERFECT IN THE MIDDLE!
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May 21st, 2008 at 8:52 am
The economics of diesels and LPG etc and whether they will be the main fuel of the future will all depend on perceptions and what the marketing people try to sell the motoring public. What I see in this section of blogs is people who truly consider all the alternative. But what worries me is that in the end it’s not what we say but what the so called experts in the car industry want to sell. Better known as PROFITS AT ALL COSTS.
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May 21st, 2008 at 8:57 am
We have a deaf government. It was a deaf Liberal government, now its a deaf Labour. When will they take the initiative???
Sure there will be some pains along the way, but imagine the pain if they don’t act soon?
The thing is, we have ample natural gas for our automotive industry AND the export market. We have technologies for cars that run on compressed air, technology for electric-only cars.
Why must we wait for tomorrow to adapt these viable alternatives?
Someone?
Please???
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May 21st, 2008 at 9:19 am
AndrewM - i agree with you, although i would think if it had a REALLY good diesel in them then a diesel commodore and falcon COULD return as low as 7l/100km, but otherwise everything you said is pretty much spot on except for one thing, you are looking at the AVERAGED fuel economy per 100km’s when you say this. It’s quite common for diesels and petrols to perform quite similarly on the open road with regard to fuel consumption, which tends to even up the averaged economy that the ADR quotes a little bit more. In reality however, day to day driving in the city, the difference between diesel and petrol economy tends to widen, so although the official number may only be 2 or 3l per 100km, the difference in the city can be as much as double that. That is why its quite often easier for people to match and beat the quoted economy in a diesel, and why so many people struggle to match or beat the quoted economy in a petrol. Hope that all made sense
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May 21st, 2008 at 9:21 am
There is a guy that works at the Melbourne Victoria markets and he’s developed a rotary motor that runs on compressed air and he claims is more efficient than the french one…..he is running a forklift or or something similar at the markets……but no one except the beyond tomorrow show has bothered interviewing or helping this guy develop this technology enough to apply it to a full sized car!!
i think Australians are becoming lazy and or greedy and the same goes for our governments….what are we waiting for? are we too busy trying to get rich and paying off our McMansions to be innovative or think out side the square???
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May 21st, 2008 at 9:46 am
Morning Carl………….that sounds real interesting,compressed air! I bet the government wouldn’t bother giving him a grant to continue its testing yet would give some so called artist 200k to buy MnMs pour them over the floor throw a frame around it and call that art ,madness!Or some scientist $50,000 to work out if Ants fart?
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May 21st, 2008 at 9:50 am
Why hasnt this been acted on…
Cause the Petrol Companies have strong ties / influence to ensure that petrol is mainstream circulated and they’ll be happy to shut down any milestone innovation that will greatly dent their profits, the only thing they can’t control is the scarcity of resource. Plus the Australian government is loving the tax money from Petroleum.
Anybody noticed today, Barrel prices hit a new high!
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May 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am
the CNG idea is a good one, the only problem is that most cars are made in other countries, where is their motivation to make a car that runs on CNG specifically for the australian market which in the grand scheme of things really isn’t all that big? Yes i know normal engines can be converted to run on CNG, but they still would have to do all of the engineering evaluation work and it all costs money
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May 21st, 2008 at 10:00 am
Years ago I would have never considered a diesel vehicle but the recent publicity they have been given was swaying my mind.
I was considering a new Mondeo diesel in fact.
But where I live 91 RON is $1.50 and diesel is now $1.79 - that’s 29 cents difference!! I think LPG is around 75 cents.
I’d have to seriously sit down with a calculator and try and work out all the factors of initial vehicle cost, mileage, servicing etc to see which would come out on top for me.
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May 21st, 2008 at 10:03 am
I agree with that Richo. 70% or my driving is on the freeway, so the Falcon I6 is perfect for me. Big comfy car, heaps of torque, tows easily, etc.
My last 3 fill ups have been this :-
764.4kms for 60.52L = 7.9L/100kms - Economy driving.
558.9kms for 51.73L = 9.3L/100kms - Spirited driving.
710.6kms for 58.50L = 8.3L/100kms - Economy driving.
Of course, those figures would blow out if I had to deal with Melbourne’s gridlock.
It’s a shame to me that the newer gas tech isn’t in FG as Andrew.M says. That’d suit me perfectly.
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May 21st, 2008 at 10:15 am
Hey BM……you have real way with words!Hahaha
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May 21st, 2008 at 10:46 am
With the market increasing it’s move towards hybrid drivetrains, it proves Toyota was on the right track for investing into hydrid technology all-a-long despite the years of critism before-hand.
What i have notice is that most bloggers on this particular subject have openly duscussed a hybrid Commodore but before-hand were digging Toyota for developing the exact same system.
For all the past critics … what about the manufactuering, utilisation and then disposing of the batteries - why haven’t you people slammed Holden for such intentions but prior were all to quick to raise the point against Toyota … mmm !!
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May 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am
^^^^^^^^^^Here we go again….boring!!^^^^^^^^
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:05 am
^^^ Well, Andrew.M and myself aren’t in that boat.
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:05 am
Oh Hi TP/Dingo
I think you’ll find we have. Who in their right mind is going to buy a 45k commodore hybrid that does 7litres per hundred? It doesn’t make any economic sense. A diesel or lpg however?
You’re forgeting Honda have a hybrid civic aren’t you? It makes more sense than the PriARSE on cost benefit. But alas a hyundai i30 turbo diesel cost nearly half the price of the and uses less fuel than the PriArse.
Put a stop/start function in any of the modern b segment diesels and the PriArse becomes practically a joke! look at the mini Diesel in europe heaps of torque about the same cost and it practically doubled the mileage of the PriARSE on a recent test. Face it. petrol hybrid is a “ecowank”
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:34 am
Trackdaze - i may have missed it but i have not noted a single critism towards the Commodore for utilisation batteries that people such as yourself have slammed Toyota about in the past.
I agree diesels are a good option and moving forward aswell and may i remind you that Toyota in Europe uses a 1.4, 1.6 and 2.2 diesel donks and many of thier cars including the Lexus IS220d so they to are involved with such development but unfortunately behind the ball in Australia unless it is a 4×4/commercial.
With regards to petrol hybrids, there must good grounds that everyday people like ourselves are overlooking for so many manufactuers now persuing the technology with BMW, Mercedez Benz, Audi, Ford, GM and Nissan all coming onboard to join Toyota and Honda who have already been in the game for how long … !!
Also, most of the diesels such as the i30 that you compare against the Prius are latest models/generations while the current Prius is now aging and due for replacement in January/February 2009 which will not only bring greater performance but more efficancy in it’s third generation format.
It is also worth noting that in the past couple of weeks alone - the Prius engine won the ‘World Green Engine Of The Year’ award and then was ranked No.1 in the latest JD Powers UK Quality/Customer Satsifaction Survey fending off over 100 other models.
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:54 am
The reason why Petrol hybrids are being considered by BMW et al is for one reason only. its called the US of A. or more notably california. Its for that reason alone that they are bothering. Diesel time in america is fast aproaching.
Make no mistake a diesel with stop/start will trounce a petrol hybrid.
In case you haven’t heard me the Commodore petrol hybrid makes as much economic sense as the PriARSE.
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am
Was wondering how long it would take before BOB would mention the T word.
Hey Carl I may have a way with words but sometimes Im speechless to Dingo/Bobs arrogance when it comes to Toyota.
Bob has it ever occurred to you that Toyota read these comments and that must be starting to wonder if they should provide CA any cars in the future cause you make such a fool out of yourself over them causing arguments on them where ever you go and pure hatred towards Toyota with some of us now! ! Think about that,you may actuality stop the Toyota reviews singly handed!
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Who? Looks like someone needs a hanky. Pink or purple? Fluffy or cuddly?
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Sorry for my above use of well worn and sophisticated humour. Better get a hanky myself from laughing so hard!!!
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
hahaha that was gold,I like Trackdaze! You are absolutely correct too.
Toyota investing in Hybrid.pftttttttt thats a laugh I thought that was done by the Japanese Government. see below!
“”The automotive press was abuzz earlier this month as corporations flung around statements related to the development of hybrid vehicles, suggesting Toyota may have received an unfair advantage by receiving government funding for research and development.
This conflict flared up recently after Business Week magazine published a quote from Jim Press, former president of Toyota’s U.S. division: “The Japanese government paid for 100 percent of the development of the battery and hybrid system that went into the Toyota Prius.” In September 2007, Press left Toyota to become Chrysler’s vice chairman and president.”"end quote
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:17 pm
hahaha,morning Golfy…….weren’t we doing this last week? Listening to Bob go on and on about the worlds most boring car manufacturer ? yawn…….
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Anyway, well done to Holden and GM for bringing this extremely worthwhile technology to market. I hope they don’t pike out on either. Choice is good.
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:30 pm
GM FORD CHRYSLER started looking at diesel hybrids in the early 90s but obviously now have moved on to petrol,wonder why! Maybe cause the yanks aren’t big DIESEL LOVERS?
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pm
It’s great to see that us petrol heads can go further than big block V8’s, rice burners and turbos. I just wish the Governments of ALL political persuasion would remove their heads from areas where the sun doesn’t shine located behind the banners of oil companies and affiliated organisations (maybe car companies have shares in oil companies). The Governments role is to work for the good of the people not the good of defunk industries that create so much pollusion it’s not funny.
What a lot of people forget about hybrid cars is that the electric motor generates a certain amount of power/torque which is stored in the batteries. When the engine uses a diesel motor to generate power to be used by the electric motor it can only give as much as it has. That is power in equal power out. If the diesel has 100kw the electric can only give 100kw not more.
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Actually BM, everybody has looked at diesel hybrids, the reason no one has actually developed one however is due to an inheriant incompatibility between a diesel and a hybrid drive system. See while petrol engines can be easily started and stopped by simply turning the crank and dropping some fuel and spark in, something a hybrid drive system can do very easily, a diesel engine due to its very high compression ratio requires alot of voltage to turn the crank over, the same voltage that is required by the electric engine, which means the whole system struggles to work seemlessly like the petrol hybrids do. This is the reason why, currently at least, all hybrids are petrol.
As for the Holden/Ford Hypocrits bloke, mate the reason all the manufacturers are going after hybrids is because of the green factor. They make cars to sell them, and while their is a market for them they will keep making them and also enjoy the positive publicity they will get out of them. But ask the hard questions and they will all tell you that hybrids are not only not the answer, but they are also a false ecnomy and actually cost more to run and maintain in the long run then a conventionally engined motor car. Bob Lutz of GM recently said, in typical Bob Lutz form, that petrol electric hybrids are more of a fasion accessory then a genuine alternative to petrol and diesel powered cars. And this from a company which is about to release their very own prius type hybrid, the Chevvy Volt
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May 21st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Also, its not just brand new models of diesels which beats the toyota prius in fuel economy, but many small diesel cars from europe such as the VW Polo turbo diesel which have been around for years in europe, not only drink less fuel but as diesel burns cleaner then petrol, and they don’t have those environmentally disasterous batteries which dont break down for 1000 years, they are also MILES better for the environment then the prius. Again, its a false economy.
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Bavarian Missile, it COULD go something like this. Anybody, feel free to correct me, but I think I read something once; Because of diesels’ higher compression ratios and concomitantly (Ooh, dictionary time!) violent start-up and shut-down protocols, car makers have had a Dickens of a time trying to get them to drive acceptably in a hybrid situation. Can you picture it? Stop, judder, start, thump, thump, thump, etc. Heck, maybe it was the lack of a spark thingy that was the biggest problem.
I don’t know what the Mini system is or how it works, but I know it exists, and Peugeot are less than a year away from giving us the 308 diesel hybrid, so that means they probably have driveability problems licked.
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm
mmm,thanks for that Richo you have taught me something!
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Richo, our repsonses to Bavarian Missile hit the airwaves at about the same time. Glad to see you’ve got the technical side more under control than I have.
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm
mmmm,interesting results from International Engine Awards….seems BMW almost picked up another .How many were in contention for the award BOB? 6……….. here are the results. BMW only 3 points away..rrrr well next year they will do better after all getting 6 out of the 12 awards given just isn’t good enough hehehe
1. Toyota Hybrid 1.5-litre (Prius) 269 points
2. BMW Diesel 2-litre (118d, 318d) (Stop-start) 266
3. Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger (VW Golf, Touran, Tiguan, Jetta (140/170bhp)) (small capacity, high output) 150
4. Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI (Audi A3, Seat Leon, Altea, VW Golf, Eos, Jetta, Passat (125bhp)) (small capacity, high output) 140
5. Fiat 1.4-litre Turbo (Bravo) (small capacity, high output) 108
6. Honda Hybrid 1.3-litre IMA (Civic) 101
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pm
While people are buying, manufacturers will jump at the chance to sell. Hybrids are selling, so all manufactures want a piece of it - not necessarily due to any perceived or real benefit they have, but because they know they’ll make money from it. Why do Big Macs keep appearing on the menu at Maccas when there’s no health benefit from them - because people (like me :-)) keep buying them. Hybrids are the motoring equivalent of a Big Mac - simple.
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
hahaha.your version is much more descriptive though Golfy
So the diesel hybrid from Peugeot,is it from Peugeot? BMW currently supply Peugeot’s 307/308 with engines don’t they?
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Exactly J I have said the same myself before.its all about marketing and sales .Americans being the biggest suckers whoops buyers.
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Not sure, J. In a coffee context, hybrids are a skinny soy decaf latte. With a twist of lemon, ta. Not everyone wants one but (sigh) you gotta know how to make one.
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Peugeot’s 4 cyl diesel engines are their own, whilst V6s are shared with others. It’s the petrol fours that BMW are supplying to the 207 and 308(?).
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
BMW - out of curiosity, were is BMW when it comes to Quality/Customer Satisfaction Surveys … mmm !!
Put it this way, not even remotely close to Lexus … OOCH !!
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May 21st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Tony M - you are correct, but where most of the marketing energy goes with Hybrids is to show that some of the energy put into the moving vehicle is recovered to slow it down, whereas most other vehicles lose it to heat through your brakes. You can never get more energy out of a system than what is put in, but you can make the system more efficient, making better use of the energy you put into the system, or reusing the energy leaving the system in another form. And hybrids are one idea in making the system more efficient, as are diesels, direct injection petrol engines, low rolling resistance tyres, water injection, lowered Cd, & Brocky’s Polariser.
Point I make is there’s more than one way to skin a cat and hybrids are not the only silver bullet. Bigger point I’m also trying to make is that all these technologies still rely on the very product we’re trying to remove reliance on - oil.
Best vehicle uses *truly* sustainable & renewable fuels (wait & see the hype in the next decade over hydrogen - just imagine how much energy it takes to produce the hydrogen, pressurise it, store it a suitably low temperatures, pump it, etc - could be another false economy, but I digress). If I had the answer to this one a) I’d be rich, b) I wouldn’t be giving it away on a public forum
c) oil companies would bump me real quick…
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May 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pm
J, I think oil companies already bump or influenced others to bump people (think Syriana the movie) who have found away, or have taken thei idea and locked it up somewhere as something they can use in the future…
I think when Oil is much harder to come by is when we start seeing innovations coming out of the woodwork.
As for Japan, at least their government is encouraging going away from oil, unlike our or the US, I would love an Australian company be a forefront in alternative fuel powered engines..
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May 21st, 2008 at 2:57 pm
BOB / Bavarian Hypocrite there you go again embarrising yourself..cornered me on the BMW hybrid thing …..hahaha what a joke you are………I had the last word didn’t I!
Was that the S word you mentioned again……..again your a joke,how does 65 of the best jernos in the world from 32 countries compare to a survey? No credibility BOB just like you .
Cant wait to press the report button on you.Keep it going your going to bury yourself.
BMW not close to Lexus pftttt……your opinion that means jack crap on this site…..oh and my beloved US companies???BMW are German you fool!
I think I may contact Toyota Australia and give them your address details,that way they can tell you directly to stop embarrassing their name! Is that the sound of a dog that I can hear that just got kicked in the background….whimper whimper .Go lick your wounds and come back Bob Michell…..annoyed we know your real name instead of the many you try and hide behind……
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May 21st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Bavarian Hypocrite: I assume you are Toyota fan. There is nothing wrong with that but remember Toyota don’t make enovative anything. They spend their time trying to copy other people. I remember reading about the Lexus, how Toyota got their hands on the top Merc and BMW and tried to copy these cars in all things. Got it, they didn’t start with a clean sheet of paper and created a great car. No they just copy their competitors. True other Companies do the same but Toyota have made an art of it. If you want to see enovative then just look at Formula One. Oh that’s right Toyota have been trying for years to win races in this class of sport but haven’t been successful. I do have bad news for them, it appears that Ferrari will be getting involved in Cart Racing/Indy (I think one of these are defunct).
You see you have two types of drivers, those who drive cars and those who are drivers of cars. Which one are you?
Interestingly the anti-spam word is Jaguar. I use to own a 1966 S Type 4 speed manual with electric overdrive. This is a car for drivers. You know the one that tinkers with their cars, tuning the twin 2″ SU’s, doubling the clutch when you change gears, using the compression of the engine as part of the braking, getting 12 miles per gallon etc. etc. This car was at times a pain in the butt but it was a car to be driven. As for the Priuses at work, they are dangerous. They are so boring to drive I need the aircon on my face to keep me awake, let alone you get sea sick in them because they wollow front to back left to right and of course when you want to overtake, make sure their fully charged up or else you go no where.
Am I bagging Toyota? No way, they do make some good cars but they don’t make great cars. I better stop I think it’s time for someone else to have a go.
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May 21st, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Tony…you want to know what he drives….a wide bodied Camry and a Sportivo……that should give you an indication of what sort of driver he is!
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May 21st, 2008 at 3:56 pm
BM: Tragic, I have been fortunate that in a previous life (20 years ago) I use to sell cars. What have I driven, Fiat 130 with a 3.2 litre Ferrari motor, Jensen Interseptor with a Chrysler 7 litre hemi, GTHO Phase 3 , number 28, XU1 Torana, A9X Torana, 1980 2 litre Alfa Romeo with the gearbox and diff incorporated in the back and of course the fun car was a 1973 HQ Ute with 253 and 4 on the floor. Now all I drive is, well those who have read my blogs know.
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May 21st, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Wow this hypocrite guy is pretty annoying isn’t he? Mate how come i am a “proven liar” if i couldn’t be bothered digging up references to facts that most people know however you can freely distribute your “facts” without references and are somehow not a proven liar?
And where was i talking about “old diesels”? Oh thats right, i wasn’t! MODERN DIESELS with their common rail direct injection and particle filters are absolutely cleaner burning then petrol engines and produce less emisions per litre of fuel burnt then equivilant petrol engines. Thats fact too, and no i’m not going to bother digging up references to prove this is correct because i actually have a life!
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May 21st, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Very interesting Tony M,you must be in the same age group as Golfy NM,No Name and myself.
An interesting array of cars you’ve had,some of which I too have owned,if you go on to the CA Forum you will see the selection I have had over the last 22 years {she mumbles under her breath “god that makes me old”}. Looks like you would pass Shannons test as a car enthusiasts! I had to inform them the other day of how I am a car enthusiast and for how long before they would re insure the M3……….doubt they have too many Toyota drivers on their books.hahaha
Richo its hard not to bite back isn’t it,he takes everything out of context and twists it around to suit himself. Frustrating I know ask my key board and forehead they regularly met when he comes on CA……….
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May 21st, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Jimbo,
Let me clarify one thing for you, we have so much oil at the moment it’s crazy. Whatever you hear contrary is total rubbish. It’s profiteering and abusing supply/demand in the highest degree.
I work for a Multinational Oilfield Services Company and we can’t get enough people out to into the field. There is just that much work and the amount of wells we drill as apposed to the ones that close is silly.
Sure, America is running low but the rest of the world and the Ocean still have a lot to give. Oh and another thing…the only thing restricting us from getting deep water Oil is technology. The Oil is there…give them a few years and we’ll be pumping it up.
In addition, there are still a lot of places we havent looked for Oil nor have we widely applied the technology available to get it.
Why did GM scrap the electric car in the 90’s? Because the Oil companies didn’t have a finger in the Pie.
Hybrids long term have higher running costs than Petrol cars. Just wait and see.
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Richo,
yep you are right in that diesels maittain a more stable economy over the petrol variants, and fair enough the petrol versions drink it in the city, but thats exactlly why I and all of us must quote combined figures.
A petrol falcon for eg on the highway easily will get 8-9L/100k.
a diesel wont drop 3L off its combined total when it hits the highway.
fair enough when a petrol versus diesel hit the city, the gap widens, but when the petrol and diesel hit the highways, the gap narrows.
my use of combined figures was still an accurate and fair way to compare.
anyway, i dont go for diesel, petrol or even Hybrid.
i think LPG is by far the better NOW solution untill we have a zero emissions target (cause that will come too eventually)
LPG is better for the environment to start with.
it would cost bugger all to design a dedicated Vapour injected LPG vehicle.
it probably cost holden more to design BA headlights to fit the commodore than what it would have cost them to spit out a respectible LPG only commodore
and it would have cost ford even less to simply apply a better computer to their current dedicated LPG set up.
you would have thought the dollars saved by not designing new hub caps for the XT would have covered the cost of up grading the LPG “Brain”.
if only i was the CEO for a day……….
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:13 pm
i am seriously going to look into the possibility of getting a new E-Gas falcon, and taking it to an after market fitter and have the better brain installed my self.
the tank and plumbing would already be in place, and the biggest thing is that fords motor comes with proper LPG internals
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:26 pm
awwwww Andrew M I don’t think theres any thing wrong with your brain..is there. No need to get another installed in your self.hehehe
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Andrew M …………..do you ever check your email????????Sent YOU something today thought you would be interested in!
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Tony - All manufactuers copy one another to a digree which is no different to any industry yet fact remains … Toyota argueably remains todays most successful automotive manufactuer of all being not only the largest by volumn (popularity) but by production efficency, profit, wealth and corporate recognition not to mention their traditional values of QDR (Quality, Dependability & Reliability).
The only and true value that most people are concerned about is the end product and when you purchase a Toyota - not only do you purchase a quality product but one that most customers prove to be satisfied with.
With referance to coping, well … it seems many companies these days are now content to invest into hybrid technology that Toyota (and Honda) have done for many years. During this time, Toyota has copped alot of flack from such investment but now it seems that others are following in Toyota’s footsteps.
Oh yeah - and lets not forget about KAIZEN that is a unique Toyota regime that is now not only studied around the world by university students but increasingly becoming adopted by many global multi-national companies.
So … it seems Toyota is not the only company doing the copying.
The other ‘art’ that Toyota has been successful at … reading the market.
With regards to motorsport … agree, Toyota has much work to be done in F1 but that said, NASCAR is proving a gem for the group winning more races in each of the series - Sprint, Nationwide and Craftman Trucks - this season so far then any of it’s competitors : Chevy, Ford and Dodge.
Infact, Toyota is now arguably the most competitive manufactuer in NASCAR.
And the most enjoyable aspect of it all - they are beating the American automotive manufactuers at thier own game on thier own soil … OOCH !!
Oh yeah - and lets not forget our own Rally Championships (ARC) in which Toyota is currently the dominating force against Subaru, Mitsubishi, Ford and the recent new arrivals of Honda and VW.
In future, if you want to raise comments about Toyota’s involvement in motorsport - i suggest you tell the whole story and not part off.
You also stated that Toyota don’t make great cars … what a load of ROT !!
Not only are most Toyota’s mainsteam vehicles amoung the most competitive on the market - but thier 4×4’s/commercials are argueably the most robust and dependable of all while Lexus is now argueably the highest quality automotive brand that can be found anywhere in the world today.
To me … any Lexus is a GREAT CAR.
If i drive a car of choice, then i am a driver of a car !!
And a final note : when it comes to Quality/ Customer Satisfaction Surveys, which company is amoung the most consistant wether it be the UK, USA or Australian market … yep, that’s right - TOYOTA /LEXUS !!
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Bucket - you state that hybrids will have a higher running cost then conventional means and followed on to state - just wait and see !!
Were is your supporting ‘referance’ to such a cliam ??
Passing comment is easy but wether it will be prove to be even remotely connected to reality will no-doubt be another story.
How about passing comment that you can ’support’ instead of stating what could prove to be rot.
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May 21st, 2008 at 6:57 pm
TP in relation to the article in the NRMA Open Road = I think that you [like another toyo-tosser on this site] have missed thw point.
The article doesn’t state that the Falcon itself as a model car is dead it implies more that the LARGE Family sedan [Im talking about the car not the size or weight of the members in that family] Car is dead
That is the upcoming models of both the Falcon and Commodore will have to become more of a Medium Compact size using smaller capacity engines with similar power… just like the TT-36 Torana Concept car
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May 21st, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Did somebody hear something?
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May 21st, 2008 at 7:22 pm
And with the strong Aussie dollar and declining tarrifs who will be the first to pull the pin on local manufacturing if profits slip?
Who has the smallest local engineering input?
WHO will just import from another country?
Simple TOYOTA.
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May 21st, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Theses idiots(GM) are making it up as it goes it would seem.
No wonder Toyota has open slather on the market. Toyota only need to have half a clue. Ha .ha to whip their arse.
With the rough start up on diesels for hybrid why not some progressive cylinder activation tech i.e deactivation in reverse? Mate, the board need to sack the arse off this idiot.
Millions of dollars a year to pay this idiot to be five years or more off the pace?
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May 21st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Hypocrite- change your name…no need for direct jabs at anyone.
I mean to point out that currently, the Batteries in most Hybrid Cars i.e Prius need to be replaced after a number of years and that these cost thousands (they were $5000 in 2004
And now more like $3000)
So on top of regular servicing, servicing of hybrid components (which NRMA calculates total cost of ownership to be $235 per week) you also have to fork for