Prius patent appeal rejected
13 May, 2008
41 Comments 
A microprocessor is at the heart of a court case involving intellectual property rights.
Toyota had been slapped with a US$4.3 million infringement, for using another company’s technology in its hybrids. Yesterday, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal by Toyota Motor Corp against the decision, leaving the huge fine in place.
Washington’s Federal Appeals court also upheld the verdict last year.
The chip, which was devised by Paice LLC of McLean, Virginia, accepts torque information from both the petrol engine and electric motor, allowing both to run in synergy.
Although the appeals court would not order Toyota to stop selling its hybrids, the real kick in the teeth is that fact that Toyota may have to pay a US$25 royalty for every hybrid car it sells.
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May 13th, 2008 at 11:01 am
What have you got to say about that TP Dingo?
Toyota are the innovators not the imitators….YEAH RIGHT!
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May 13th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Wheelnut,
Yep I agree, and the bigger picture is not just this chip, but the FACT that Toyota are copyright infingers, and that they pich ideas and technology.
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May 13th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Naughty Toyota - i hope they get a rap across the nuckles.
Regardless, Toyota (and Honda) remain the forerunners in hybrid development that so many other manufactuers are trying to match today.
Worth noting that just so Ford could enter the hybrid market within a timely manner because they were so far behind in development - they now utilise ‘purchased’ Toyota technology while Nissan utilses an aged Toyota hybrid system in the Ultima that is sold in the US.
I agree Toyota has been naughty on this occassion and no-doubt will be punished like bad little boys but it doesn’t destract from the reality of Toyota’s dominate position in the the development of hybrid technology.
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May 13th, 2008 at 11:23 am
What is the topic about - a micro chip … wow , that has got alot to do with the hybrid systems.
$25 loyalty per car : gee - must be a huge chip … NOT !!
Naughty Toyota.
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May 13th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Wheelnut: Comments about the story are welcome.
Insults are not. Consider this a friendly warning.
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May 13th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Oh what a FEELING!!! haha…..Watch out Toyota VW are coming to get you!!!
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May 13th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Carl … i would be much more concerned about the impact VW will have on GM and Ford then Toyota.
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May 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
At least they can afford to pay the fine,not like a few other auto.companies(e.g.Ford,GM.etc.)
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May 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
is that it for the fine? what does the poor guy who invented it get?
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May 13th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Its not just Toyota but the Japanese overall that use the Kaizen method of bringing new products onto the market. They take what they can and improve on it. I remember seeing once on a BMW stand at the detroit motor show an industrial spy(Japanese by appearance) using a razor blade to remove samples of the interior plastics etc from a vehicle and putting them into little marked vials. It’s how they have always done things. If you look through history you’ll see that the Japs havent really invented anything major at all, but they have refined (read: borrowed ideas) and will continue to do so. Toyota just happened to get caught. Serves ‘em right!
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May 13th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
At the end of the day - the Japanese and most certainly Toyota produce a much better product then any of the American manufactuers and most European.
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May 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
JD Powers and Associates has just released it’s latest UK Customer Satisfaction Ratings with Lexus leading the pack followed by Skoda, Honda and Toyota.
Ford ranked 15th, Vauxhall 18th and Chevrolet 26th.
Model Specific - The Toyota Prius has ranked 1st toppling a list of more then 100 models.
cheers
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May 13th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I agree with Fenno.Nissan SR20 engines and Toyota 4AGE engines(both twin cam) roots can be traced back to Fords cosworth BDA twin cam racing engine.And in ww2 the Japanese got the Designs for the Mitsubishi Zero(a fighter plane that was far superior to what the allies had) from The Germans before the war.
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May 13th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Kaizen = to copy, to imitate, to pinch technology from whoever.LOL.
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May 13th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
… with stolen American tech. Japs have been stealing ideas and not observing patents since the beginning of time. Whats new?
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May 13th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Perhaps Mercedes should check out the latest Lexus for stolen tech!!!
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May 13th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Realcars - your description of Kaizen is WRONG !!
Kaizen infact means ‘continuous improvement’ and is now studied by university students all over the world not to mention is a modern day favourite amoung many large corporations including Rio Tinto who i am employed with.
Walk the offices of any Rio Tinto building and you will quickly become familiar with Kaizen which was adopted by Toyota many years ago and now is one of the most recognised ‘continuous improvement’ regimes in exsistance.
Maybe if GM and Ford were smart enough and followed suit many years ago - they wouldn’t have found themselves in the mud today.
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May 13th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
VW wants to be the worlds biggest car manufacturer before 2020 and some analysts believe they can achieve this by 2015……so if Toyota currently has that title then Toyota should watch out!!! GM and Ford aren’t number one so they are irrelevant to my previous post and unless they pull their fingers out they will continue to be irrelevant!!!
So i say again Toyota WATCH OUT!!!!!!! VW is coming to get your title…..hahah!!!
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May 13th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Carl, for some reason your post was flagged as inappropriate. Not sure why, but it has now been posted.
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May 13th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Karl…..thank you…i tried to put my point across and took extra care not to offend anyone.
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May 13th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Well kick in teeth for Toyota hey…..all that tech and R&D = illegal business activity.
In regards to VW……….CARL; I agree fully and Iam seeing this in there designs and increasing model range. Iam backing them to knock Toyota off number 1. I still think Ford is dark horse in pack; they have some stunning cars in there arsenal…..just depends whether they sit idle on current models and I feel they might start moving forward in 12-15months. Kia / Hyundai alliance is a threat but dare say that might take tad longer to unfold as relative newcomer. VW I think will KO Toyota off number one spot and I would say by 2013-2015.
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May 13th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Carl - again … you should be alot more concerned about the effects VW will have on GM and Ford instead of Toyota.
VW stating that they want to be No.1 and actually being able achieve the goals are two completely different challenges.
Passing statement for a challenge is the easy task but actually having the capacity to deliver is a whole different ball game.
If you believe Toyota with all thier wealth and resources are going to just rollover like that then you are seriously kidding yourself.
GM and Ford are in a much less influential position then Toyota and the likely candidates to be adversely affected then Toyota.
You should stop living in la, la land and check-in on reality once in a while.
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May 13th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Maximus - What was that … you acknowledged the Toyota Prius ranked 1st from a list of over 100 models in the latest JD Powers UK Customer Satisfaction Survey that was released today.
That said, manufactuer list rated Lexus 1st followed by Scoda, Honda and then Toyota.
Ford ranked 15th, Vauxhall 18th and Chevrolet 26th.
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May 13th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Continuously improving the method of copying everyone else it would seem.LOL.
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May 13th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Toyota Prius’s arent that fuel efficient anyway, are’nt they? So why buy them?
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May 13th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Naughty Toyota - Ford already have a hybrid on the market in the US the Escape Hybrid. Seems they are not so far behind in reality just the consumer is.
Patent infringement - well not much to say here but patents get broken all the time. Rules to be broken. $4.3M not too much of a dent for Toyota but if they have to pay $25 for every Prius then that is a dent with a million Prius’s on the road. Of course they’ll pass that onto every Toyota customer in price rises. Mmmm.
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Perhaps the JD Powers SATISFACTION survey (and yes I know what elements are taken into account) merely show that some people are more easily satisfied than others.
Obviuosly those less descerning souls that are vanilla enough to buy a Toyota in the first place, have lower than average expectations and are easily satsified.
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Oh yes Bret… Toyota buyers are completely different, they aernt even Human aye! Sorry but just like the idiotic advertising is why Toyota tops sales argument (Despite the fact for eg I didnt see the Aurion have a making of segmnet like Ford and Holden!), it comes down to a superior product which people are satisfied with… while the 55% of Ford and Holdens that go back to dealership within 6months aernt satisfied customers!
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
TP, firstly we are talking UK not Australia, secondly did my light hearted jibe cut a bit deep did it?
And the lack of media fanfare for the Aurion has everything to do with the fact that a few panel/bumper/light cluster changes to a US designed V6 Camry is nothing worth writing about. The Aurion is not designed in Australia, it is NOT a “home grown product” of any significance like the advertising falsly claims - but hye, the whitewash suits the vanila toyota buyers.
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
its not the point of what the copy or do behind the scenes that is quite funny,
but rather the public and arrogant claims they make.
they claim the prius is greener.
then they were ordered to remove those claims
they claim to have been leading the targa rally.
but clearly werent
they claim it is their hybrid tech.
but it isnt.
i dont care what they use or where they get it from, but they have a hide to try and get a patent put on something that isnt theirs
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Hope VW whoop Toyotas Rs in the future. Likewise the Koreans who have decent business ethics and observe patents unlike the Japs!
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Oh what a feeling you said “JD Powers and Associates has just released it’s latest UK Customer Satisfaction Ratings with Lexus leading the pack followed by Skoda, Honda and Toyota.”
Thats pretty easier when you sell less cars than others. Toyota have 5% of the market. April 2008 they sold 8504 against Fords 25,498 and Vauxhalls 26487.
Admittedly the big two are behind on customer service, I personally don’t take a lot to interest in JD’s survey as they gain answers by leading questions. After all a car in a consumers mind becomes unreliable when something menial occurs such as a blown light.
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May 13th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
isnt it great how Dingo picks and choses which country he choses is stats from.
i mean if he is in the mode of quoting UK survey results, then why not qoute UK sales figures to go with it?
and why didnt you quote the US figures like you loved to in the past?
well because you are pretty smart in realising that ford are right up there compared to toyota in recent survey results.
wouldnt want to display them would you? smart man
stop “photo shopping” your arguments in pulling this one from here because it sounds good, and that one from there because it sounds good
its like laying claim to a perfect student by taking Bobs great wood work marks and placing it with Bettys great cooking marks along with christophers great physics results, and saying gee we have the best student at this school
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May 13th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
TP - I know you’ll never answer but you state “while the 55% of Ford and Holdens that go back to dealership within 6months aernt satisfied customers!”
How do you know they are not satisfied. Your arguement is floored ha ha flawed once again. You seem to forget that Toyota has recalled over a million vehicles in 3 years. Fact. Also in the US pretty much the entire model range has been recalled on an annual basis. Source automalusa.com/toyota/recall
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May 13th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
If I were Toyota, I would have just paid a lumpsum to the one(s) who invented the chip. Ford or GM USA just might want a piece of this technology then.
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May 13th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Ha. Ignorance is bliss isnt it.
People bagging on the Kaizen method as a simple “rip off ideas” is blatantly degrading reputations without KNOWING facts. If you publish them you liable to be sued.
First off, GM found already made the claims that Japanese “copy” things they invent…. but he forgot to mention that Japanese improves on them….
Innovation is important, but Execution is what really matters in the end….
BTW, if you are an engineer you’d know “copying” isnt used at all… the term is “benchmarking”…
Learn it, EVERYONE does it… you dont think European manufacturers or Koreans or Americans do it… How naive and biased can you get?… seriously….
Again everyone does it, I have a mate who works for GM Holden and they had a couple of 350Z torn apart first month it was out in Oz… Toyota had a couple of sedans torn apart for parts benchmarking…. heck I can ring up a mercedes source and pretty much they’d have another manufacturer’s car there torn apart being studies also..
Its just funny seeing some people here call a process in real life engineering as “ripping off”… if you do… then you pretty much calling out on all manufacturers… because when you design parts for cars, you cannot get it approved without having technical reports on current market parts for other cars… its all about beating each other in terms of cost reduction and other manufacturing issues.
I hope other engineers here can actually help me out and support what I say, because some here thinks theres literally “good” and “bad” guys in engineering…. naive consumers… again thank you for your money and thank you for reading the brochure…. but if you plan on accusing companies of “theft” and such then again Your pretty much calling all of them out as they ALL do it… some gets caught some dont…. Toyota gets caught in this one, Its actually a minor issue, Im sure the engineer who didn’t “account” the microchip’s designer would be accounted and reviewed.
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May 14th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Andrew - i chose the UK survey because that is the latest Customer Survey to be released wether be it Australia, UK or USA. But haa… if you want to discuss Australian or US Customer Satisfaction Surveys then great - even better !!
Noname - were do you think the technology came from for the Ford Hybrid Escape …. Toyota !!
Read : For Ford to enter the hybrid market in a timely manner because they were so far behind, Ford infact purchased Toyota technology. Don’t believe me - research it for your yourself. Even for Nissan to release it’s first Hybrid on the US market - they utilised a dated Toyota electric motor inconjuntion with the 2.5 4 cyl Ultima.
is unbelievebale how little people like yourself truely understand.
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May 14th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Isn’t it amazing how the slightest mention of TOYOTA and all the “Toyota haters” come out from under their rocks.Jealousy is a curse.
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May 14th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Dingo - they didnt purchase it because they didnt have the knowledge - they belived that they MAY infringe on a patent of Toyota’s.
So instead of just risk infringing - As Toyota did to the chip designer - Ford did the RIGHT thing and negotiated a patent sharing arangement
“The Escape Hybrid uses technology similar to that used in Toyota’s Prius. Ford engineers realized their technology may conflict with patents held by Toyota, which led to a 2004 patent-sharing accord between the companies, licensing Ford’s use of some of Toyota’s hybrid technology in exchange for Toyota’s use of some of Ford’s diesel and direct-injection engine technology. Both Ford and Toyota state that Ford received no technical assistance from Toyota in developing the hybrid powertrain, but that some hybrid engine technologies developed by Ford independently were found to be similar to technologies previously patented by Toyota”
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May 14th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Isn’t it funny the slightest mention of how we think Toyota’s are boring or are knocking off someone else’s design , the Toyota lovers become all defensive!!
Jealousy is a curse..hahaha of what exactly??? Boring cars that boring people drive,yawnnnnn
For all those interested in the Prius landspeed records ,yes they bothered,130 MPH in 2 miles………wooooo impressive.Must be some more boring motor spots Toyota are involved in I can google,
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May 14th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Peterd …
“Toyota is granting US car maker, Ford a license to use the Japanese company’s patented technology for environmentally friendly hybrid cars for an undisclosed sum.
In a joint statement, the companies said that Ford Motor Co. will be licensed to use Toyota Motor Corps hybrid technology in a system it is developing which is already subject to more than 100 hybrid technology patents.
Referance : About.com
So, what does that say … Ford purchased for an undisclosed sum to utilse Toyota hybrid technology.
Am i wrong … NO !!
Cheers
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