2008 Ford Falcon Review

2008 Ford FG Falcon First Steer & Review

By David Twomey

Ford’s new FG Falcon is a huge step forward for the Blue Oval with improved vehicle dynamics, handling, performance and safety advances, the big question is will the buyers realise this or even care.

After close to 500 kilometres and a major two-day national media drive program in Central Victoria CarAdvice can say that this car is so much better in almost every respect than the already good BF II Falcon.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

There’s just one problem, the looks of the car don’t convey the massive level of work that has gone on under the skin.

Sure, when you look at the detail of the design the FG is substantially different to the BF but the drive-by impression leaves you wondering if you are looking at an FG or a BF.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

The standout impressions of driving almost every model in the range for me is the balanced handling, the new front suspension and the variable ratio steering, which make this a really sweet car to drive.

It’s balanced in almost every situation, although on rougher roads there is some rack-rattle through the steering, and the suspension of the XT, with its 215/60R16 tyres, does have to work hard to keep the car under control at the limit.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

Not so the newest, and most identifiable member of the Falcon fleet the luxury performance G6 range. In basic form the car is really a dressed up XT with more interior luxury a sportier suspension and a ‘Mondeo’ nose that at least makes you realise this is a new Falcon.

The G6 and G6E are nice but the real sleeper is the G6E Turbo, which can only be described as a ‘concealed weapon’. This thing is seriously quick and the 270kW engine fairly hurls the car down the road – until your suddenly hit the factory fitted speed limiter at 200km/h.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

Ford’s excuse: ” it’s needed to protect the transmission”.

Well come on guys, the same superb six-speed ZF auto gearbox is used in the XR6 Turbo, which is limited to 230km/h, and its also used in Euro brands that are capable of 250km/h+!

Swap to the similarly powered XR6 Turbo and at least you can hit 230km/h before the limiter steps in, but really these feel like 300km/h cars and we’d just love to have the opportunity to give one a blast down an autobahn.

In the XR range the real treat comes with the XR6 Turbo with the revised six-speed manual gearbox. You’ve just got to try the launch control – we did and it is manic.
Pop the car into 1st gear, floor the throttle and it will lock the revs onto 3500rpm, then dump the clutch and hang one!!

The car just rockets away from standstill and you are instantly grabbing second gear. One word of warning, don’t try it with the traction control turned off, unless you like axle tramp.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

The new FG Falcon is more than just the performance models; it is a range of large family sedans that offer excellent levels of refinement, handling that will cope with almost any situation and sharp pricing.

Ford claims this Falcon is the safest car it has ever built and we’d certainly say it has excellent credentials, the final verdict will come when it gets tested by the independent safety authority, ANCAP, and Ford insiders have told CarAdvice that they are quietly confident it will become the first five-star safety rated Australian built car.

Ford President bill Osborne said that he was very confident about the safety rating for the new Falcon and defended the decision to offer only four airbags on most models, with curtain airbags a $300 option on all but the premium models.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

The Falcon’s base 4.0-litre in-line six-cylinder engine is almost unrecognisable as the power plant from the BF and in cars like the XR6 it revs and barks with a sweet aggression than Holden’s asthmatic V6.

With 195kW, impressive real-driving fuel economy in the order of 9.0L/100km, in part thanks to the all-new French sourced five speed automatic gearbox the FG Falcon is a large car winner.

Interior space, the fit and finish of the trim and the roominess, including much improved rear seat ingress/egress due to a change in the shape of the rear roofline plus much wider opening doors have all served to overcome some of the often-criticised areas of the BF.

Suspension settings across the four options on offer from the base XT to the high performance XR6 Turbo and the one V8 that remains in the range the XR8 all offer levels of grip and handling that is first class.

A number of the cars we drove were on the optional 19 inch rims and even these provided a level of compliance and comfort, while exhibiting prodigious grip.

2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review
2008 Ford Falcon Review

This is truly a car that can shade Holden’s VE Commodore, in fact I’d be so bold as to say it is definitely a better car, especially when you consider attributes like the standard five-speed automatic and the balanced, refined handling and ride.

2008 Ford FG Falcon pricing summary:

  • 2008 Ford FG Falcon XT $36,490
  • 2008 Ford FG FalconXR6 $39,990
  • 2008 Ford FG FalconXR6T $45,490
  • 2008 Ford FG FalconXR8 $45,490
  • 2008 Ford FG Falcon G6 $39,990
  • 2008 Ford FG Falcon G6E $46,990
  • 2008 Ford FG Falcon G6ET $54,990

Options

  • 6spd automatic transmission $1,500
  • Egas $1,400
  • XT 16″ alloys $500
  • XR 18″ alloys $1,000
  • XR luxury pack $5,000 ($5,400 on std XR6) inc leather, permium, dualzone, 19″ alloys
  • G6 & G6E 18″ alloys $1,000
  • G6ET 19″ alloys $2,000
  • Techonolgy pack $450 inc blutooth and ipod intergration

Read more:



  • Frugal-One

    *****PRIMO!*****

    Do a review/report on the Falcon Ute too please

    And the Mazda CX7! :-)

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Frugal-One

    Speed limiter, MUST be removed, WTF cuts in @ 200kmh, NOT having any of that.

    The BIGGEST problem the FG faces is the looks, yes, it looks good, BUT its to similar to the BF.I suppose they run out of funds, the AU was a disaster so i suppose better wait for the FG2 Update with all new looks?

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Oz.

    Oh yes!!! This is what I’ve been waiting for!!! :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:

  • Matt

    Sounds like it’s going to be more of a driver’s car – about time. Looking Ford to a drive :)

  • Duck

    ………Balanced, refined handling and ride

    ^^^^^^^^^^So the commodore hasnt got this either? He obvisouly hasnt drove the VE!

  • Oz.

    Very promising review and yes I’m looking Ford to drive one! LOL

    Ford are saying FG will receive 5 Stars, this would have to mean all the air bags are going to be standard when it goes on sale. If not, the construction of the vehicle would have to be fantastic to receive that result without curtain air bags, unless ANCAP has a requirement that all cars must have curtain airbags to receive 5 stars.

  • bfarn

    realistically, what difference does it make it the car is limited to 200km/h? you can’t get close to that on our roads and whoever races these things in production racing will have the thing rechipped anyway, or at the very least remove the limiter…i’m not saying all cars should be limited, but i think 90km/h over our national speed limit is more than enough…if they didn’t have a limiter then even better, but 200′s is fine. plus, weren’t previous falcon’s with the 2-piece driveshaft limited to 180?

    besides that, glad the car delivers on the way it drives…now, to find the $55k+ needed for the G6ET…

  • Oz.

    LOL Duck. He means the Balance, refinement and handling are even better than the VE Commodore! :P

  • Duck

    Hey Oz., Is the only new falcon your are dissapointed in is the FG XR8?

  • Alec

    Love it. Awesome car, styling is a bit of an issue in pictures, but when you see them on the road, you know its the new one. Definately looks way better in the metal.
    This is truly Ford’s large WORLD CAR!!

  • Duck

    Toyota……..is Anti-Spam word. I have a feeling TP is coming!

  • Oz.

    Yes Duck, G6E turbo over an XR8 for me any day!

  • Duck

    One exhaust pipe on the XR8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thats sad ford………………………real sad!

  • Oz.

    As soon as Toyota “Thread Phucker” Paul sees this new article he’ll be disputing it and/or mentioning how Toyota has better reliability than Ford. etc

  • Karl Peskett

    Needed to protect the transmission, eh?

    So Bentleys, which do a whopping 326km/h, need protection for the ZF they use?….

  • Duck

    I mean ford that the Holden SV6 has two exhaust pipes and your XR8 (which is a V8 not a V6) has only one!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Holden SS has 4 exhaust pipes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Alec

    The value, especially on upper spec cars is unbelievable. The XR6/G6E Turbo has got to be one of the performance bargains of the last 10 years!!
    G6E Turbo or 4 Cyclinder import…… I’ll be keeping it Local thanks!!

  • Captain Mainwaring

    The turbo six is clearly a terrific engine, and the FPV Typhoon version of the FG is going to become an all-time classic. It will be very surprising if the new V6 engine due in 2010 has a turbo version as effective as this, but here’s hoping.

  • http://www.geardiary.com Mitchell Oke

    That looks to be a really nice car.

    That’s funny about the limiter, my 2000 Verada is limited to 210/220kph. I’ve never understood why they bothered with that, I mean if you have a crash at 200kph I can’t see you being much better off than if you were going 250kph.

  • Tony M

    Now we have some decent competition in the large car range. The thing that seems to stand out is the balance that the new FG has. I have read most of the reviews from all the journos in all the papers and the report is the same as Caradvice.
    Conclusion for me is the VE Commodore is a show pony and the FG Falcon is a thoroughbred. This means the comparison between these two cars will start.

  • Duck

    ^^^^^^^^^^Just because there is a thing on the new falcon doesnt mean can bag the crap out of Holden. And by the way i dont see how VE commodores are showponies.

  • Duck

    I still think Ford and Holden are level. The new FG isnt a step over the VE. The main thing the new falcon has over the VE is more kW, but doesnt mean it will be faster.

  • Duck

    If u have a photo of the XT to Omega interior they both look up to level. The same if u compare it to each and every model in holden and ford’s line-up and the same with the exterior.

  • brett

    who’s this duck bloke? counting exhaust tips out the back of cars…. fingers crossed the facelifted VE will come with 8 exhaust tips for the V8s!! haha but seriously.

  • Duck

    ^^^^^^^^^^^Who’s this Brett bloke? Sounds like he knows nothing. By the way BRETT the commodore doesnt need to be facelifted, it looks good next to the new FG and its 2 years old! 8 exhaust pipes now thats stupid! I mean Brett 1 exhaust pipe that i really sad, for a V8. U obvisouly dont know alot about one exhaust pipe on a V8 struggles!

  • Glen

    well i think with duck’s post it proves that VE’s are show ponies, The dual exhaust on the base model, thats just overkill. Plus the SS needs the 4 pipes to get close to the V8 rumble of the FORD.

    Umm Duck the FG XR6 Turbo has the same power rating as the SS and yet its quicker than the HSV’s.

    Yes we wish the XR8 was quicker but to get that sort of power out of an engine that more than half a litre smaller than the Chev V8 if a pretty good achievement.

  • http://integra Rick Harris

    The FG looks very different to the BF………..its just we have been looking at the BA|BF for so long any similarities in the FG stand out. It is a great body shape and will look more individual as they become familiar as we see them eveyday. The front of Aurion and VE asre very similar as well. So what if the V8 is a disappointment? Who would want a V8 Ford or Holden when you can get a sweet turbo 6 like this one? Well done Ford on only having one V8 model…….the turbo six is streets ahead. I compared the interior of VE and FG at the motor show……..VE interior is just black plastic crap and the ergonomics are woeful compared to FG…..that centre console in the VE is woeful !!!!! Then there is that stupid hand brake ……..what the hell is that about??? Power window swithes on the console ……..puuulease !!!!!

  • Tony M

    Reality is the new FG Falcon will make inrodes into the current sale numbers of the VE Commodore. From the leasing companies we deal with, they have been waiting for the new FG to replace some of their fleet cars. They have all the VE car they need. This is why I said the biggest loser in the big car market is the VE Commodore. It’s got nothing to do woth who has the best car.

  • Matt

    I’m sure the exhaust diametre is tuned to perfectly compliment the engine and develop correct back pressure regardless of how many outlets it has.

    The number of outlets in MOST cases is purely an aesthetic or styling cue and has little to do with the vehicle’s acoustic or performance details.

    That said though (and this is going back a bit), the 253ci Holden V8 actually ran better with a single pipe where as the 308ci ran better with dual pipes. Perhaps the same theory applies to the Ford engine – one pipe may actually be improving it.

  • Duck

    Glen, what dual exhaust pipe on the base model? There is only one!

  • Tony M

    Duck: Note, it’s not how many you have but how big it is.

  • Duck

    drive said though the 0-100km time the G6E Turbo is 5.1 secs and i have got to say that is quite good!
    Very good! And u all think im an one eyed holden fan. Holden will be making V6 turbos soon too, for the torana and possibly the commodore.

  • http://Mini Harry Dixon-Balls

    The G6E Turbo is the jewel in the crown. It looks great in the pic in that colour. The Calais V is also a very handsome car, although the I6 Turbo appeals to me much more than a 6.0L lump of lard over the front axle.

  • jp

    hahaha one exhaust pipe or 4 doesnt matter, it is the diameter u fool and how effective it is. The point of an exhaust and the way it performs most effectively is to get rid of gas in the most efficient and easiest way possible, that can be achieved with one pipe, just as easy as four. if not more effectively…..going back to the reference holdens are showponies…..puttin dual exhaust on a v6, yes it does look good, but can be now more or less effective thant he single pipe on fords. ford have reserved such looks for the performance models….. ie the GT….. as it has for the gt’s of the past! there is a reason ford fans love the gt, and that heritage is part of it.

  • jp

    can see this reaching well over a couple hundred post by knock off time

  • http://www.myspace.com/tjantilag Tom Jakovljevic

    Best of luck to Ford – this car looks seriously good, seriously fast, seriously safe.

    Lets hope the market agrees.

  • Duck

    Whats fords competitor against the Caprice and Statesman? Becasue the Fairlane and LTD are gone.

  • Frank

    What the fark is it with all the farken whingers “doesnt look any different.Only one exhaust pipe”
    Shut the fark up for christs sake.
    XR6T quicker than a HSV!
    It could look like a farken Lada for all I care just give us the POWER!
    The Blue oval is back so you better get out the farken way!.

  • Duck

    EXTERIOR STYLING:

    Holden Commodore Sedan and Ford Falcon- Even

    Holden Commodoore Ute and Ford Falcon Ute- Holden Commodore Ute

    Holden Commodre Wagon and Ford Falcon Wagon- Dont know because ill have to wait and see the ford falcon wagon. All though at the moment the Holden Commodore Wagon looks great!

  • golfschwein

    harry, don’t forget that Holden’s six litre lump of lard is all alloy.

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Falcon. The Great Australian Road Car!!!

  • Phil C

    Tony M comment was spot on. “VE Commodore is a show pony and the FG Falcon is a thoroughbred.”

    Some comparisons I’ve heard of the VE styling is that it’s Holden’s version of the BA (and there are plenty of similarities) with the Torana A9X flares.

    Probably the least flattering comment of the VE is that it looks like a fat kid with big ears or it looks like a bulldog with a punched in face.

    Performance, Economy, Quality, Desirability, Handling, Modernity. FG has got it all.

    The article’s closing paragraph says it all. “This is truly a car that can shade Holden’s VE Commodore, in fact I’d be so bold as to say it is DEFINITELY a better car.”

  • davidt

    A couple pf things. There is not Ute driving impressions available yet because the media launch for the Ute won’t be held until early May. Ford has got to get as much publicity out of this as possible!
    Just for the record I’ve driven every model of VE Commodore and all the HSV models so I stand by my comments about ride, handling, etc.
    On the question of the speed-limiters I’d question the Ford excuse for them but have to agree in our speed-limit obsessed society they are in the realms of academic.
    People who use the cars for track days will be frustrated in the XR6 Turbo and the G6E Turbo though as these are seriously quick cars and they will get up to 200km/h pretty quickly.
    Ford execs are happy to say that these are five second cars for the 400m!

  • Frugal-One

    YES…….I was as always *****PRIMO!******

    In any case, what about compare:

    The Falcon Glovebox -v- The Commodore Glovebox.

    I think it would be very very interesting, which is better and which would win??

    Cheers

    F-0

    “NO MORE SPEED LIMITERS”……pfffffffft

  • EscortGhia

    duck the fg look much fresher than the ve and the ve ute’s look crap its looks to short and they are nothing but a show ponies like all ve’s
    and as for having a single exhaust pipe most people who by the xr8 are going to mod it any way to get more ponies out of it.

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Reason for speed limiter could be right as I doubt that every
    ZF out of the factory is designed to go behind a twin turbo bentley v8 or the like otherwise the cost would blow out for the humble Falcon.

    I would guess that there would be several different spec gearboxes available with different torque/horsepower ratings for different applications. a Bentley zf would probably be very “hard” in it’s shift etc behind a lesser engine given that it would be built to handle more torque and power across the range.

    Same principle as the BW35 or Traumatic used in everything from 200bs to 5 lite v8s although I realise that these were no electronic gearboxes.

  • Oz.

    QUOTE: REALCARS “Falcon. The Great Australian Road Car!!!”

    It’s trim, It’s Falcon,
    It’s trim, it’s Taut, It’s Falcon
    And Falcon to be specific
    It’s Trim, Taut, Terrific!!!

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Stop squabbling Ford AND Holden fans.

    Both are World class cars in their own right.

    If they can both take sales from the skid steering Camerion then Australia will be a better place.

  • davidt

    My subjective impressions are that the gearbox feels entirely able to handle the power being put through it.
    Also the same gearbox is used in the XR6T and the G6ET yet the limter is set at 200km/h on the G6 and 230 on the XR6! The ZF in the Bentley, and I’ve driven one, is certainly by the same manufacturer but is not the same gearbox as the Falcon gets, however the box in the Falcon, with different mapping is used in BMW 5-series. And they are only limited to 250km/h to keep the German police happy!

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Keep em coming OZ!!!!

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    If that is the case David then the six speed option is worth every cent. Not only in terms of driveability and economy
    but also durability.

    Given that these i6 engines last forever
    u’ll never wear the thing out. New front end should be even more durable than bf as well.

    F-O disregard handbook and have auto serviced every 40,000 klms or fit a cooler if u want to see past 200,000 klms.

  • Tony M

    I quote Mr David Twomey….. “With 195kW, impressive real-driving fuel economy in the order of 9.0L/100km, in part thanks to the all-new French sourced five speed automatic gearbox the FG Falcon is a large car winner.” This statement will put fear into a lot of Camry and Aurion owners let alone Toyota executives who hope for good sales figures and resale figures on their so called big cars.

    I believe Holden will challenege these figures when the upgraded VE comes out but I don’t think Toyota will be able to with what they have unless they go bigger.

    The so called big front wheel drive cars are going to disappear. Cars like the Mondeo and the future Torana will fill this market place.

  • Daz

    re:” Oz. Says:
    April 11th, 2008 at 11:50 am ”

    This whole deal with the curtain airbags is annoying me.
    Ford is one of the only manufacturers to give a head protecting side airbag.
    The driver and front seat passenger will have the same protection no matter if the curtain airbags are optioned up or not. The $300 curtain airbags will add protection the rear seat occupants. This is the reason ford went for this type of airbag. Fleets did not want to pay the extra money for things they will never use.

  • toyota

    Sounds like a severly biased review, but maybe thats because ford fans have had nothing to shout about for the last 6 years…Also have to say based on looks the VE still stands out and looks better than FG and its already 2 yrs old.

  • Oz.

    has TP changed his name?

  • Andrew

    The new Ford FG Falcon is absolutely fantastic, a milestone for Ford in Australia.

    But why is it, that whenever a review is written in favour of Falcons, it’s “biased”? Whenever people write reviews about Holdens and Toyotas it’s all dead set gospel. Some of you people have to pull your head out of the sand and realise that Falcons are good cars!

    Styling is purely subjective, and of course when there are no statistics people can use to prove a competitor’s car is better, that’s what people will say.

    Ford makes good cars. Get over it!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Well well …I am pleased that it drives better than it looks,got to say its too understated for me,I think in the looks dept I would still go the VE ,sept in the FPV range Id swing over to the HSV but its just a little too hero for me . Mmmmmm the limited to 200 clicks sounds like an excuse to save something else Ford think they may have problems with ,my guess anyway. Axle tramp should happen whats the go? You get a dud one or is this a factory fault?

    Hey Matt when you planting your cute bum in the F6……will be very interested in your story on that ,thats going to be the the big one from FPV I feel.

    So we getting a wagon or not, they back to drawing board on it after sighting the Sportswagon perhaps? Interestingly enough at the moment I am considering another wagon as a need for a new buisness Im going back too,speaking to my lover the other night on it will either go another Volvo again or will take a look at the Sportswagon…I know……… whats Wheelnut done to me,under a spell,na like anyone else when looking at a price range I check all options and the Sporswagon falls in the price range for the new hack!Mind you if FPV did a F6 wagon Id be in like flynn.Oh n before you ask no the M3s not going…..as if.God Id have to change my name on here then,imagine that!

  • Abacus

    So, Duck, what car do you drive?

    I suspect that you are not exactly in the FG’s target demographic.

  • Oz.

    Welcome back BM! I’ve been away too

  • Bavarian Missile

    Geez Louise no pleasing people is there just read TPs post ,yep Oz I would think so too…….

    CA have finally started doing reviews on the Fords n Toyota fans don’t like what their hearing…..get over it.Im not excited about the looks of the poverty range but hey when you get your Toyota reviews do us Ford fans tell CA thier biased.Dont like to hear the truth perhaps that we have been trying to tell you for months TP n Dingo ,Ford make good cars too !

  • Glen

    Biased review??? If it was a biased review I bet we wouldnt be hearing about the lack of curtain airbags.

    But we’ll soon see how biased motor & wheels (or rather the 2 VE Commodore monthlys) are when they finally get a drive. Niether could stop raving about the VE since it came out. I subscribe to motor and nearly every month since august 2006 their has been a VE on the cover in one way or the other and the majority of those had it as the main cover story.

    Oh & again who gives a rat’s freckle that curtain airbags arent standard. If you want them pay the extra $300. I think whats worse is that aircon is still an optional extra on the VE Omega

  • Bavarian Missile

    Have you babe..Iv just been cut off the internet by the EX ,playing games …be back on as usual end next week to stir the pot! Miss me?

    Wheelnut tells me everynight whats a happening on here.Same old same old Toyota is god stuff!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Im with you on the airbags Glen,who gives a toss!Motor n Wheels is always worth a giggle though Glen,I hear what your saying,Ford needs to drop a few cases of Scotch in the boot for the Motor jernos too……….hehehehe.

  • AC COBRA

    What a wonderful car Ford has produced for our world, I think The FG models will compare to BMW, AUDI, etc… I say why not, Holden said VE would be as good as German builds (whoops that failed) but why not the already making waves Falcon, world class Ford, world class… my cheque book is ready GE6 Turbo….. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

    “Ford means alot to Australia” !!!!!!!!!!!

    GO FORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) :-)

  • Dlr1

    Tony M: “The so called big front wheel drive cars are going to disappear. Cars like the Mondeo and the future Torana will fill this market place.”

    Isn’t the Mondeo, which is very close in size now to a falcon, a front wheel drive? Same with Camry/Aurion, new Mazda 6, Accord V6 ect?

    Front drive will remain if only because of manufacturing efficiencies and versatility in their platforms.

  • Tony M

    Curtain airbags: Read the latest statement by the new head of Ford in Australia, you know the yank, Osborne. He is willing to give the new FG to the crash testing people without curtain airbags and have them do side impact crashes. He is so confided that the new FG is a 5 star rating without curtain airbags. I note that both Holden and Toyota refused to give VE Commodores and Camry/Aurions for this type of test.

  • Tony M

    Dlr1: Your right the Mondeo is a front wheel drive car. But it is a balance front wheel drive car. That is the dynamics /engine/gearbox are beautifully matched and here I am refering to the diesel and turbo 5 cylinder motors. This car does all it needs to do without reving it motor to bits. A facet a Japanese motors.

  • Phill

    Top stuff FordThe new benchmark car in the australian auto industry.To bad Ford don’t have a propaganda marketing machine like,you know who.If they did they could sell them as submarines

  • Fenno

    I think I’ll just wait until they are a year old and a series two has already come in before i look at a second hand XR8 for 12k at the auctions. I should be able to get most colours given how common these things are…

  • Matt

    Hah! Password – Holden

    Welcome back BM.

    The Ford by all rights should be a winner for Ford. I just home the consumer can see past the minor change is aesthetics.

  • Matt

    I meant Falcon – damn liquid lunch!

  • Frosty

    Glen, air coditioing is not optional on any of the VE’s Now. As you would know if you read any media releases that have been published in all the car websites air conditioning became standard at the same time 6 airbags were made standard along with alloy wheels, new grill insert and body coloured mirrors and door handles, This updated VE comes under the model year 09 and brings it in line with the specs of the Sportwagon apart from rear parking sensors,

  • audiman

    “I think The FG models will compare to BMW, AUDI, etc…”

    LOL, nice joke there AC COBRA!!!hahahahahah i’m still laughing that was so funny, hahahahahaha…

  • AC COBRA

    LOL hahahaha,,, Audiman, I was laughing while I was typing it, but not as funny when Holden said VE is comparable to the BMW a fews years ago :-) ………

  • audiman

    Its a complete joke to compare a falcon or a commodore to european brands like audi, merc and bmw!

  • Jase

    Wow the dark blue G6E turbo looks really sweet!

  • jp

    hmmm yeah audiman….no comparison….. i mean just look at the price u pay for one of those euro’s….

  • JCS

    Having seen FG in the flesh, and then contrasting with the BF, I disagree that this car is not a visual step forward. Australian cars, for many reasons have suffered serious depreciation and a progression in visuals rather than a complete departure (ie VZ to VE) is a relief.

    I am a Euro car snob.., but appreciate that the FG Flacon is something Australia should be proud of. It is unique to this country and totally suitable. A vehicle that with 300,000km on the odometre is not an economic loss due to maintenance.

    Good on you Ford. Next step is a diesel Territory and a Wagon al la Holden.

  • windsorace

    ALL I CAN SAY IS FORD HAVE TAKING A FULL ON BEATING FOR A FAIR WHILE NOW IS THE LARGE CAR STAKES, BUT FINALLY HAVE TAKING AUSTRALIAN AND A LITTLE EUROPEAN ENGINEERING TO A NEW HIGHER LEVEL. HOLD-ON MAY HAVE SPENT A BILLION DOLLARS ON THEIR EFFORT BUT DID THEY ASK THERE LOYAL BUYERS WHAT THEY REALLY WANTED!. FORD HAVE AND BY THE LOOKS OF IT HAVE COME UP WITH A WORTHY CAR, THAT CAN SHOWCASE WHAT WE ISLANDERS CAN DO WITH A BIT OF THOUGHT. HATS OFF TO THE ENTIRE COMPANY FOR GIVING A 100% EFFORT IN TURNING THEIR FORTUNES AROUND.

  • PoisonEagle

    What a masterpiece, with astounding performance numbers. Good to see quality is improved.

  • PoisonEagle

    Best part is, it obviously has Dingo and TP stumped- Im delighted to see they aren’t present.

  • Oz.

    Yeah, but wait until TP sees this, we’ll be at war “Aurion is faster”

  • muscles

    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE! OI! OI! OI! Well done Australia another world class car.

  • http://integra Rick Harris

    Seriously………put a BF next to an FG and then tell me thay look the same……..they have similarities but so do most cars. VE, BA, Aurion……….all similar at he front. In fact the photo I just saw of a TRD Aurion I though it was a VE !!!!!!

  • Duck

    Whats fords competitor against the Caprice and Statesman? Becasue the Fairlane and LTD are gone.

  • Duck

    Rick Harris, the Aurion looks completely different to the VE Commodore.

  • AC COBRA

    THE MORE I LOOK AT THE ALL AUSSIE SENSATIONAL NEW FALCON, THE MORE IT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO BA-BF MODELS, I THINK SOME PEOPLE HERE HAVE TO TEST DRIVE ONE, THEN COME BACK WITH A REASONABLE COMMENT…….

    GO FORD !!!!!!!!!!! # 1 AGAIN…………. :-)

  • jp

    Duck, i think u will find the g series is the answer to your question

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Have said this over and over if u are worried about depreciation don’t buy a brand new car.

    The more u spend the more u loose.

    Holdens and Fords are not unique in this regard.

    Buy a Tarago new for 65k and it will sell on the lot four years later with less than 80klms for 35k.Same deal with a prado.Buy an Audi and see what u get for it four years later on tradein even though it is a fine car.

    Forget about resale buying new!!! There is no such animal.

  • Oz.

    This is a song Ford should re-live, it’s from 1960 when the Falcon first came out…

    If your car is designed with Australia in mind
    Then you’re driving a Falcon by Ford.
    If your auto mobile is a sculpture and steel,
    Then you driving a Falcon by Ford.

    For clients,
    With a fleet of motor car features,
    Galore.
    Built for style, economy and comfort…
    And pride they’ll adore!

    Let your car take a bow.
    You’ll be proud to find how everyone in the world will applaud.

    The Australian Falcon,
    The fabulous Falcon,
    Australia’s Falcon by Ford.

  • T

    Gotta LOVE the bullshit about the exhaust tips!!

    Typical holden RICER idea that you need more pipes!!

    Holden has 4…. BUT 2 EXHAUSTS….. 4 TIPS…. 2 are for LOOKS …. looks over performance = RICER!

    im surprised commodores dont come with IRONING boards on the boot, chromies, clear tail lights and NEONZ bro!

    and THEY ( commod bogans ) have the audacity to call 4 cylinder drivers ricers…… when they are in fact, the originals!

    hahaha

  • T

    Oh

    and dingo AND tp are the same person.

    if not…. they were sepparated at birth!

    :p

  • AC COBRA

    GO OZ !!!!!!!!! GREAT LYRICS MAN,,,, FORD JUST NEED TO POLISH THEIR MEDIA EFFORTS, THEN EVERTHING WILL BE FINE… :-)

  • TP

    Its not BS about exhaust tips… Ford havent put the final touches on this vehicle, simple as that; family cars have twin exhausts, yet an FPV F6 doesnt! (Yes it doesnt need it being inline, but either does an Evo, STi and many other performance cars, its about the looks not such performance)

  • F@ GTHO

    CANT BELIVE IT KEY WRD WAS FORD

    GO FG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Go OZ!!!!!!

  • http://fordforums.com.au/ Nick

    Sorry Duck, blow as much sunshine as you want, it will not change the fact th FG is a generation above the VE.

    By the way, your sour grapes are showing.

  • Carl

    BM, I think Ford will bring the Mondeo wagon soon….it looks classy and roomy, might suit you????

  • More Boost

    Watch the turbo models blow the V8 competition away.
    13.4 GE6 Turbo, even the Boss boys will be trading up.

  • http://realcarsbigpond.com realcars

    Escort Ghia now there was a neat little car in it’s day. Mate had one in the early eighties and could sit on 140k all day.

  • Wheelnut

    Fromwhat I was told by the Ford represntatives at the Adelaide Motorshow [If you can call it that] was the Mondeo Wagon is epected to be released at the start of next month

  • Carl

    Wheelnut, Sooner than i thought and wouldn’t surprise me if that Mondeo wagon turns out to be a Commodore “sports wagon” KILLER!!!!!
    Specially the Turbo Diesel.

  • Wheelnut

    If you’re interested in a wagon TP would no doubt tel you to forget the Mondeo or the VE Sportwagonbuy a Toyota – wait a minutethey don’t make one… no Corolla no Camry no Aurion; no TuRD. HA!!!!

  • Carl

    Naaa…Toyota don’t have anything that won’t put me to sleep every time i look at it!!!!

    But yes I’m going to wait for the Mazda 6 diesel to come out before i commit to anything but i love the look and quality of the Mondeo!!

  • Carl

    Wheelnut, i don’t think you’ll get TP/Dingo to bite cos the Falcon is getting unanimous excellent reviews every where!!!
    He’ll stay away from these blogs until the Falcon reviews are over.

  • http://ninemsn geoff

    Looking forward to trading up from BA MKII turbo ute to FG TURBO UTE. As usual for a lot of us this car will be the starting point for mods. Good thing about the turbo over the V8 is the amount of dollars required to get some decent power from these engines. Start off with just the CAPA edit/injectors and dynotune and you will be looking at around 270(rwkw)approx 360fwkw. then go on from there.

  • http://ninemsn geoff

    and also the restriction of top speed can also be removed with the edit.

  • http://integra Rick Harris

    Duck……..the TRD Camry\Aurion does not look completely different………look at the grille\headlights……could pass for a VE or a BA…..have a look.

  • KJ

    Are those rims on the GE6Turbo the standard 18′s or the optional 19′s? Looks nice.

  • Oz.

    KJ, the wheels on the blue G6E Turbo are the optional 19″ and the red G6E has the 18″ because I can see how they have almost identical spoke designs, yet the G6E has higher profile tyres than the G6E Turbo.

  • windsorace

    I think if your comparing the Aurion/VE/BA you can safely assume that your comparing the Aurion/VE to the BA as it started life way back in 2002 where as, the no real interesting idea’s GM/Toyota combination’s latest and greatest family cars now look like the BA. How behind are these people!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • John

    i had the surprise to see these cars at the taylors lakes banquet and reception centre on wednesday! all i can say is…holdenwhat?

    after seeing the cars in the metal…and then seeing a ve commodore…i was like…holden…puh-lease! move over dead lion…ford is back and is gonna kick some red corner behind! now all ford has to do is market this baby like they’ve never marketed it before…

    and yes…the owner at the lakes reception centre who was a holden man…now wants to get a G6E Turbo…hmmm…do i hear the general shaking?

  • http://- Crouchy

    Im a holden fan through and through but i have to admit this car has got the look to win over everybody. The calais V won wheels car of the year.. the G6E looks 10 times better. Its like ford finally went: “ÿou know what.. maybe this time we will do something completely different. European looking, australian driving and japanese pricing.” Praise the lord.

    Lets hope holden steps up to the plate with the ve s2. if not its goodbye to their sales.

    Note: 1 downfall.. as the article suggests the xt looks too much like the bf. but who really cares.

  • Oz.

    Carl, this is a fantastic car, don’t ever listen to what TP says as he is extremely biased to Toyota and does all he can to make his crap anti-Falcon comments public. Obviously to try and get his be-loved CamAurion on top in sales so Toyota can take over the world of motoring.

  • EscortGhia

    tp what ever to say the Aurion is just a face lifed Camery with a bigish 6 that has been around for years your just upset because ford’s new falcon is better than the Aurion and VE commodore

  • Bob

    i was wondering did you(caradvice) do any speed test like 0-100km. or quarter mile?

  • AC COBRA

    The new Falcon will win Australia’s best large sedan awards this year and many other awards maybe not wheels magazine becauase thats reserved for Holden and euro models, people should praise what Ford has done even TP – Dingo can bow…………..World class Ford….

  • Shane

    WELL DONE FORD….You have worked very hard on this car to beat the competition, and you have based on all reviews I have read. If the test drive wows me I will be placing an order as I find VE boring and Toyota’s Aurion does nothing for me.

    All Ford needs to do now is ensure the dealers up their customer service…and focus on reliability and quality.

  • golfschwein

    Well, things are on the up. I can see this is a damned good car and the G6E (I SO want to call it a Fairmont Ghia) looks like class that people will hanker for.

    Oz, TP is not actually terribly clever. You’re asking why you have to repeat things for him. Only the Lord knows why, but it’s true. Even then, it won’t sink in. He’s perenially upset that Aurion came 6th in Wheels WASP test and that the Kluger rolled in COTY testing but distorts both results to Base Aurion Beats XR6 and What Sort of Toyota Phool drives around a gravel bend at 100 clicks anyway.

    So, I’ll take a deep sigh and say best of luck to you.

  • golfschwein

    AC Cobra, Territory and BA both won Wheels COTY. Mondeo was in the final running last year. I think they’re fair.

  • Oz.

    LOL Golf, no I actually think his negative rants and how he continues the argument after he’s proven wrong are pretty clever of him (despite his pathological state) and I’m pleased you no longer think I’m the same person as him. :)

  • golfschwein

    Did I EVAHHH say that Oz? LOL. maybe I did before I worked everyone out. Ahem. Yup, anyway. :)

    Rick, Toyota Phool dug deep for a hint of irony and humour, but only his usual smarmy sarcasm and ignorance emerged; he called it an FG wagon because he’s convinced that they’re the same underneath as a BF. He doesn’t R E A D and consequently doesn’t U N D E R S T A N D.

  • Oz.

    LOL

  • Duck

    I’ll have to stick to my VE commodore.

  • Oz.

    Oh Duck, if you stick with a VE, you don’t know you missing out on alot of fun!

  • Duck

    Oz, I’m joking……..i dont have a VE, but im still a Holden Fan i’ll always will be. And if Holden are going through hard times i’ll always be loyal to them and never change.

  • Frosty

    You cannot say that the new Falcon is better until they are both tested side by side in a comparison. Have any of the media outlets tested a current model year 9 VE yet. I don’t think so, so maybe all you biased fordia (Yes Ford Kia) should shut up until a compariso side by side is done. Remember the VE was last tested in 2006 and there have been quite a few running updates that have been doe since and in the past would have been called series 2 etc.

  • Oz.

    I understand what you mean Duck. Ford has been going through hard times recently in the media and sales department, but look! I’M STILL SUPPORTING FORD!

    :arrow: Go the blue oval! :arrow:

  • Oz.

    Frosty, show me the source were the new FG Falcon is actually a Kia?

  • Frosty

    Oz, I personally think that the same should apply to those who call Holden Holdenwoo. They are no better than TP. Yes GM Bought Daewoo but just because GM bought it doesnt mean aything as Ford bought Kia which doesnt exactly have a top reputation. All the current Daewoos are from prior to GM buying in except the Captiva. The next generation will be a lot better and if Holden follow suite with Astra/Viva and do Torana/Epica and Corsa/Barina they will be opening up Markets to people on all budgets. A smart business move that is.

  • Frosty

    I said Ford Oz not Falcon. Anyway the same link all you people say Commodore is Daewoo

  • Glen

    Ford doesnt really need to bring out a Falcon Wagon such as the Holden Sportswagon, the Falcon wagon is used by commercial fleets but Private buyers go for the territory. Why does ford need a sportswagon, they’re selling more territories than they would sportswagons.

  • Duck

    ^^^No the ford territories sales are going down fast.

  • Oz.

    Now what has Ford OZ have to do with Kia?

  • Frosty

    Glen, of course they are currently as the Sportwagon is not even released at the moment but I can tell you there is already goig to be at least a 3 month waiting period for the VE Sportwagon and I will tell you now the Sportwago WILL be outselling the Territory oce its released.

  • Duck

    Oz., Im not saying Holden are going through a hard time at the moment if they do i always will be with them. Like Frosty said we havent seen the comparo test between the different models of FG Ford Falcon Versus VE Holden Commodore yet. Holden still has a good chance.

  • Frosty

    The same as Holden Aus has to do with Daewoo, Its GM Daewoo not Holden Daewoo. Rmember Ford sold a Kia badged as a Ford when the Festiva was here just as Holden market a few Daewoo’s as Holdens.

  • Duck

    ^Agreed with Frosty. The Holden Commodore Sportswagon are going out like hot potatoes (i mean they will). The territory sales are slowing down alot now.

  • Bucket

    I think its safe to label almost all of TP’s input as null and void and lacking totally in fair judgment and common sense…Yes TP- it would appear you are not the full quid.You may as well not be here at all
    90% NEW DOESN’T SEEM TO REGISTER DOES IT?? You really think 750 Million (and then some) really just went into sheet metal?? Right…you’re wrong.

  • Glen

    Duck, Territory is still 2nd best selling SUV and that segment is GROWING. Territory sales are still strong. The Australian public has moved away from Family wagons and opted for SUVs instead, such as Territory, Klugar & Prado.

    The SS & Calais versions of the sportwagon I think will do ok but the Omega will struggle with fleets compared to BF mk3 because of limited load capacity.

    Oz I think the Holden boys are clutching at straws to discredit Ford because they imported the Kia built Festiva which was built using MAZDA mechanicals. When Holden blatantly just rebadged the Daewoo Kalos as the Barina and made minor changes to Epica (the sales success that is) and Captiva.

  • Duck

    Glen, We’ve always know that the Holden Commodore has never been a fleet sale car compared to the ford falcon.

  • Duck

    Glen, Toyota Kluger is ahead of the Ford Territory in sales

  • Frosty

    Glen, have you actually seen a Sportwagon i the metal and actually measured its load capacity to a Commodore or Falcon Wagon of the past. There is not a massive difference. Usable space is actually not that different when you put safety into the equation. You cant safely load up to Roof height. And the Wheelbase difference between a Commodore and a Statesman is only basically a little bit more legroom so its very minimal.

  • Oz.

    Frosty, you mean Ford Australia should be called “Fordia” because years ago a Kia was badge engineered as a Ford? That completely doesn’t make sense. Holden has been labelled as “Holdenwoo” because they are supposed to be known as pure Australian, yet most of their range, e.g Barina, Epica, Captiva are Daewoo’s from overseas. Do Ford OZ currently sell a Kia Festiva and advertise it as Aussie? I don’t think so.

  • Duck

    And GLEN, Holden arent looking at fleet sales with the wagon like they used to for VT-VZ with its bigger load capacity. Holden are mainly looking at private sales.

    VZ Wagon Load capacity- 2752L

    VE Sportswagon Load Capacity- 2500L (estimation WHEELS Mag)

  • Glen

    Frosty I didnt say it has less space, I said it has Load Capacity, which means weight. Thats why Ford still use leaf springs in Wagons & Utes, so they can carry more weight.

  • AC COBRA

    Frosty, Ford don’t deal with Kia anymore, GM Holden Daewoo have platforms in about half of their model line up, Ford only had very little involvment with Kia and that was many moons ago, obviously Ford learnt from using inferior Korean technology and now use euro kinetic design with German inspired quality, sorry Frosty, but Holden are no match with Ford at the moment.. sales don’t mean much either, as TP and Dingo keep spilling on this site…………

  • Glen

    The omega wagon will be squarely aimed at fleets like the sedan, if you think otherwise your very much mistaken.

    I think sportswagon will have initial success but the market is turning away from family wagons fast and heading to the suvs. Hence why only Holden & Ford are the only ones who offer a wagon at all.

  • Glen

    And remeber the Adventra & crewman both had multi-monthly waiting lists to begin with, and look how they ended up doing.

  • Duck

    Does anybody here go for the West Coast Eagles?

  • Frosty

    Maybe thats because previous Holden and Ford wagons were thought of as inferior in the past to sedan counterparts re. ride and handling etc. Now this Sportwagon is like the sedan but with extra cargo room. Its handling and ride will be near identical to the sedan. Yet despite the VT up wagons having IRS it still sold well in fleets just like Falcon did with its leaf springs so that has nill to do with sales to fleets. There are some families also who will buy the Omega Sportwagon because their budget doesn’t handle the cost of a uppermarket Sportwagon BUT it still has all the safety equipment people want, still andles like the Omega sedan but has extra room in the back for items such as cases, golf clubs, prams etc.

  • Duck

    Oz, U get some people saying that holden are crap because they are daewoo’s. There not. GM the company that owns Holden bought Daewoo and made them part of GM called Daewoo GM. Holden is olny responsible for placing the Holden badge own the cars which is done so by GM.

  • Frosty

    Nah Duck, I go for the mighty Western Bulldogs.

  • Duck

    Thats right Frosty. And i think (correct me if im wrong) The wagon price will be only $2000 over any sedan model.

  • Frosty

    Yes, a bargain at only 2 grand more and you get heaps of space and reverse parking sensors included in that price. The Sportwagon will be a winner and once Holden add AWD to a platform that already supports it, just watch more and more people go for it. Oh and by the way the VE would be a 5 star safety wise now after 6 airbags being standard now. I am sure that will come out once ancrap test the Sportwagon.

  • Duck

    Yes, id prefer the Sportswagon over the sedan anyday! I dont know, but Frosty would u rather have a SS V Sportswagon or Calais V Sportswagon?

    And your a HOLDEN fan arent you FRosty?

  • Duck

    I dont think Holden will make a AWD Wagon………i’ll have to ask Wheelnut.

    Oh………………WHEELNUT!!!!!!!!!!

  • Duck

    When ANCRAP tested the VE Holden Commodore Sedan. Did they just test the Omega? Because if that got 4 stars. The SS, Berlina, Calais etc. All had 6 airbags standard. That means the rest would have got 5 star ANCRAP?

  • Frosty

    Yeah Duck, I have already placed my order in for a Calais V Sportwagon which I pick up in July as I said as a result of the waiting list despite ordering at the Melbourne. Yes I do follow Holden just like my parents and grandparents did but I do wish Ford luck I just do not think they have done the right thing in particular with the long wheelbase and Wagon and despise those people who make childlish name calling of Holden. Its as if they are in primary school calling a child who is 4th generation Australian a name because of their cultural background like wog etc and my family have been here since the early 1800′s.

  • Frosty

    Yes ancrap oly test the most popular version which is generally the base model due to fleets etc so the 6 airbag models were not tested.

  • Duck

    Why did u prefer the Calais V over the SS or SS V?

  • Duck

    There we go Holden and Ford might be the first two large cars in Australia to get 5 stars in ANCRAP.

  • Frosty

    Oh and as stated in a previous post the VE Omega when tested only had front airbags so 2 in total compared to 6 now.

  • Frosty

    I like a few of the items on the Calais V like front park assist and 8 way electric seats plus the rear DVD player for the kids. I did option it as a 6 LTR so I still have the extra grunt of the SS/ SS V. I currently already have a VE SSV 6 speed manual for a bit of fun. This will be my second VE so I will own 2 at the one time to go with my 4WD.

  • Frosty

    I just think Ford are neglecting a particular market now, both the Luxury wagon market and the Luxury long wheelbase market.

  • http://integra Rick Harris

    Duck..are you serious? MOST OF THE COMMODORE SALES ARE FLEET SALES !!

  • Duck

    Im a Holden Man too. Did you get the Sportswagon Calais V in V6 or V8 guise? What colour? Did you get the interior in two-tonne colour?

  • Duck

    Not compared to the falcon

  • AC COBRA

    I’m a Ford man,,,,,,,, lllllllllllllooooooooolllllllllllll, there are Holden blogs on this site to you know, please don’t feel left out or flood new Falcon blogs with GM Holden Daewoo dribble……..

  • Frosty

    Colour Phantom Metallic, 6 Ltr V8 with 6 speed auto, Light urban leather as I like the contrast with the Phantom.

  • Duck

    AC COBRA, U get some people saying that holden are crap because they are daewoo’s. There not. GM the company that owns Holden bought Daewoo and made them part of GM called Daewoo GM. Holden is olny responsible for placing the Holden badge own the cars which is done so by GM.

    AC COBRA, the worlds not all about ford u know. And thinking that Holden in Daewoo, is wrong. U can give respect to other car companies too u know.

  • Duck

    God for u Frosty! Any other Options?

  • AC COBRA

    I’m placing my order on a Falcon GE6 Turbo or XR6 Turbo not sure until I complete a test drive, my colour will be either silver or maybe black…

    Ford Australia is World Class !!!!!!!!!!! :-)

  • Glen

    The reason Ford aren’t updating the Falcon wagon more is because their market research & sales have shown Sedan based wagons sales have dwindled from their fairly low sales position anyway.

    As I keep saying but Frost/Duck don’t seem to understand the market has switched from family stationwagons to SUVs. I can tell you its not because of handling or performance or luxury features. Its all about status, Mrs Jones got an SUV so why can’t I get one. Women find stationwagons too ordinary. The majority believe they are safer higher up and can see above everyone. This is not a sexist view its just my perception working in car sales.

    The sportswagon may do great, good but I’m just saying I can’t see it being the sales success Holden are telling people mainly because they have gone away from fleet sales and the market has shifted away from stationwagons.

    Now back to the topic, I can’t see Falcon losing too many sales over the fact that curtain airbags arent standard. There cheaper than the competition without them and are equal with them. Safety doesnt really sell. Look at the Corolla, 2 airbags std & no stability control. It was the biggest seller in Q1.

  • ChopstaR87

    This is whole the Holden/HSV battle will go…

    Battle of the Sixes: Winner XT/XR6 vs Omega/SV6 = Ford
    Battle of the V8′s: Winner XR8 vs SS/SSV = Holden
    Battle of the Premium Sedans: G6E/G6ET Vs Calais = Ford G6E Turbo
    Best Ford vs Best Holden: XR6 Turbo vs SS V = XR6 Turbo

    FPV GT vs HSV Clubsport R8 winner: to close to call(need to know more about the GT power output)
    FPV GTE vs HSV Senetor Winner: tie to close to call as above

    FPV F6 Vs HSV GTS Winner: FPV F6

    Bang for your Buck: XR6 turbo
    Performace car of the year: FPV F6

    on another note… i think by the end of 2010 we should see a F6-HO as the inline 6 will be put to rest.

    one other then…. i wish ford would built aussie Godzilla – a Lighter AWD F6 sedan with a power increase… even if just a concept… i think it would be a sight to be seen…

  • AC COBRA

    It seems the head honcho at Ford :-) , Alan Mulally has a thing for our new FG Falcon. The Ford CEO recently got behind the wheel of an FG Falcon G6E Turbo at an Australian test facility and came away mightily impressed. In fact he declared, “I want one”!

    There is a general world-wide consensus that Ford Australia build a better four-door sedan than Ford North America, so it is not hard to believe that Mulally would prefer the FG Falcon over the alternative at home – a Taurus.

    Will he ship one over? Who knows… We do know that there was at least one pre-production FG shipped to the States last year for evaluation. :-)

  • AC COBRA

    I also found a comment to go with my last post,,, He rated it much higher than his previous car, a Lexus GS430. hahahahaha Toyoda…….. :-)

    Go Ford !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Frosty

    Too early to say that ChopstaR87

  • golfschwein

    What’s a two tonne colour, Duck? We’re talking loud, not heavy! :)

    BTW, I’m going for West Coast Dru…EAGLES today, cos I live in Perth see. Might be on now. Arabs are dirty.

  • Wheelnut

    The other thing about the VE ANCRAP Test is that at the time the VE had just been released and Holden were focussed on getting enough cars out to the major dealerships for immediate delivery inorder to meet initial demand..
    Not only that but the cars are supplied to ANCRAP at the manufacturers expense – Therfefore Holden could only provide them with 4 cars [not 5] each of which passed the 4 tests they were used in

    whereas The Aurion passed the 5th test However; there are reports that the Aurion used in the 5th test failed and due to a loop-hole Toyoda were able to send extra cars for the test; which they did – until it passed.

    Which is why The ANCRAP tests dont assess the safety of a particular range or model of car But more the safety of an individual car which is from that range or of that model.. So your VE Commodore might fail an ANCRAP Test whereas my VE Commodore might actually pass.

  • Oz.

    Although it’s too early to say, but this is more like it….

    Battle of the V8’s: Winner XR8 vs SS/SSV = Too close to call

  • Oz.

    The Aurion still has a 4 star ANCRAP rating. It’s the same as the VE and BA/BF

  • Wheelnut

    ATM – I can’t see Holden making an AWD Comodore Wagon..
    not after the Adventra Experiment.

    However; Holden could come out wiht a AWD Sedan as the Torana is Expected to be built on the same “insignia” paltofrm as the upcoming Vectra which has been designed to take AWD – which AWD system will they use? I’d say they’d usethe same AWD as the new Saab 9-X [which is very similar to Subarus Symmetrical AWD]

  • Duck

    Golfschwein, i meant two tone colour. Sorry!

  • Duck

    Golfschwein, I hope the Eagles lose cause they are the druggo team and i go for the SWANS anyway. Whats the score? Ive got normal TV, so i dont know.

  • Duck

    So Oz, thats the exactly the same as the VY/VZ

  • Andrew M

    oooooooooooooKKKKKK

    parents really ought to ensure they dont give internet access passwords out to their children

    F-O,
    i dont just want a review on the falcon ute, i want a bloddy test drive, or even a fleshy look.
    does any one know yet when the QLD’rs will catch first glimpse?
    when is the sale date??
    is sale date of utes same as sedans??

  • Oz.

    I can agree with Andrew.M. I want to see them in flesh and know when we can see them in QLD. Not have to keep looking at reviews all the time(although they’re good and promising).

  • Frosty

    Oh by the way the Sydney v West Coast starts at 7.10pm EST so just under 2 hours away. GO Doggies lol 4 in a row ad 5 in a row after beating Richmod next week.

  • Duck

    Frosty, did you get the Sportwagon Calais V V8 with the two tone colour for the interior?

  • Andrew M

    I’d really to give the “launch control” a go.

    it sounds pretty clever and above that, like a hell of a lot of fun

  • Duck

    New Holden Commodre Prices (for Wagon (sportswagon) and sedan):

    Omega- $36,790 (Sedan)/ $37,790 (Wagon)

    Berlina- $40,290 (Sedan)/ $41, 290 (Wagon)

    V8 Berlina- $45,290 (sedan)/ None (Wagon)

    SV6- $40,290 (6 speed Manual) or $41,290 (5 speed Auto) (Sedan)/ $42,290 (5 speed Auto)(Wagon)

    SS- $45,290 (6 speed Manual) or $47,290 (6 speed Auto)(Sedan)/ $46,290 (six speed Manual) or $48,290 (six speed Auto) (Wagon)

    Calais- $45,790 (5 speed Auto)(Sedan)/ $46,790 (5 speed Auto) (Wagon)

    Calais V8- $50,790 (six speed Auto)(Sedan)/ None (Wagon)

    SS V- $52,790 (six speed manual) or $54,790 (six speed Auto)(Sedan)/ $54,790 (Six speed Manual) or $56,790 (six speed Auto)(Wagon)

    Calais V- $54,290 (six speed Auto)(Sedan)/ $55,290 (5 speed Auto)(Wagon)

    Calais V (V8)- $59,290 (six speed auto)(Sedan)/ $60,290 (six speed Auto)(Wagon)

  • Duck

    ^^^I’d thought that some of u would want to know. Or even could compare it to the new falcon.

  • Andrew M

    Duck,
    take my advice and piss off with your efforts to try and rain on this parade.
    this is a ford posting. you are obviously jealous of fords greater offering.

    go away before you get branded the “Holden propaganda guy” in the same way TP and co fill our screens with toyota sales rubbish.
    i dont hate holden, its just your efforts to patheticlly push holden media stuff down our throat that im getting a bit short of.

    i have mates who prefer holdens and i can respect that. they can also respect that i prefer fords

  • Andrew M

    Duck,
    isnt it time to fly south????

    really mate you have no logic.
    how is it that the top of the table team suck?

    and besides its about cars on here you know????????????

  • Oz.

    Settle down Andrew.M. Duck is just someone who is a bit worried about FG and is doing his best to calm himself down by going off-topic.

  • Oz.

    The G6E Turbo’s direct rival is the Calais V V8, it costs $59,290. However the Falcon G6E Turbo costs $54,990, I know which one I’d rather buy.

  • Andrew M

    OZ,
    its either warrented or its not.
    quite simply the way he has posted belongs to the later category.

    if people really want to know what the entire range of commodores cost, then im sure they would look in the commodore postings. people cant be that stupid to come to a ford page looking for a commodore pricing

  • Andrew M

    thats right OZ,
    if anything those prices highlight why you wouldnt opt for the higher spec commys

  • Frosty

    I suppose the same should apply to those Ford fans I see post o Holden topics or in your mind that doesnt count. Double standards thinks me.

  • Duck

    Geeeezzzzzz………Come down Andrew M. I did this not just for my liking but for ford fans also to compare the prices to the new FG. Grow up and stop having your little tamptrums.

    And by the way ducks dont fly to the south for winter!

  • EscortGhia

    ^ duck it becouse all you have done on this page is carry on if you dony like the FG Falcon then say what you have to say and P!$S off dont fill the topic with football and holden crap or whine about stuped things that the FG dont that dosn’t do anything for the car but add bling.

  • EscortGhia

    its an expression of speech duck

  • Frosty

    They do it those ford fans because either their jealous or have an inferiority complex or both. Considering Commodore is Falcons main rival I would be welcoming a bit of debate.

  • EscortGhia

    whats to debate car advise has clearly said the falcon is a better car

  • Duck

    EscortGhia, I never said i didnt like the new FG falcon, so dont asume i dont, because u are being very rude. Just because i mention one thing about AFL doesnt mean im changing the subject. I respect anybody that likes ford and they should do the same to me that i like holden.

    To prove u are very wrong i think the new G6E Turbo looks good and people will prefer it over the Calais and considering its faster to 100km than a 6.0L V8 is astounching.

    So dont think i hate the new FG.

  • Frosty

    OMG the old Escorts, My old neighbours had one in the early 80′s and we were not allowed to play cricket even with a tennis ball near it because if it hit the Escort it would fall apart. Dot get me started on Cortina’s.
    BTW I will leave it to the car market to decide which is best, the Commodore or Falcon. Over the last decade the Commodore has won easily despite Ford fans claiming Falco as the better car. Funny thing is More people bought the Commodores.

  • Duck

    EscortGhia, becasue i had never mentioned anything about the FG in the article doesnt mean i dont like anything about it. Like i said in one of the posts the commodre and falcon are level in exterior etc.

  • EscortGhia

    sorry duck but if you read my post i said if you don’t like the FG and i was implying it to everyone like TP not just you never said you didn’t like it and ivé seen your earlier post saying you did.
    thats funny frosty because my escort still has the factory engine and iv’e never had it break down on me but my vk Calais 5.0L is constantly got problems and it’s not the one who get the crap thrashed out of it and you know why because its well looked after regularly serviced.
    and as for more people buying the commodore over the falcon thats because the most people are so stupid to realize that the falcon is better on fuel and more reliable then the commodore because its a holden and it’s Australian the most unaustralian calming to be Australian besides the Aurion and the dawoose badged as Holden’s.

  • Oz.

    OMG this post is becoming overrun by Holden fans. This Falcon does not have to become number 1 seller to keep Ford going in Australia. But here’s an interesting fact, Commodore is no longer best selling and will continue to lose sales as newer competition comes.

  • EscortGhia

    thats right oz the funny thing is ford sell the most cars in Australia but holden and Toyota count the car they export more cars than they sell here

  • Duck

    Thanks for the apology, EscortGhia.

  • Duck

    Now Oz., Im a Holden fan but i put the prices up of the commodore for other people to compare to the falcon.

  • Andrew M

    Duck,
    ok ill clarify.
    the way you post is a little “clutching at straws”.

    show me where i submit ford marketing hype in holden posts.

    when it is a debate, fair enough, but when it turns to marketing tatics then i dont want to hear it.

    Frosty,
    remember the not so long ago VS commodore?
    i cant even fit on my arm all the people i know who do or have owned one. not 1 single person i know hasnt suffered a big list of dramas with them.

    holden build cars for fans, and thats why they rank better in the sales department.

    if you think i have double standards then you only need to visit the latest Maloo and R8 clubbie articles to see where i defended holdens products showing clear respect for holdens offerings.
    double standards me thinks not!!!
    what im sick of duck delivering is the impression of trying to tell people they should buy a commodore

  • Duck

    I didnt say that though Andrew M

  • Duck

    Andrew M, I meant that i didnt make an impression of trying to tell people they should buy a commodore.

  • Oz.

    Yes… the way Duck posts little “clutching at straws” is ‘ill’ clarify isn’t it! LOL

  • Duck

    Andrew M, i did not say anything about people to buy a commodore at all. I thought that some people would have appreciated what “I” did to get prices of the commodore to compare it to the falcon range out of my kindness. Because it took me a while to get the info and the commodore isnt cheaper than the falcons. None of them. So thats what i thought alot of people would have done, compare prices of models. But maybe i was wrong or maybe your the only one as i can see that doesnt appreciate what i did.

  • Oz.

    Seeing that this is on the topic of buying a Commodore or Falcon, I shall ask this…Who the hell would actually be reading through these comments to decide whether to buy a Commodore or a Falcon?

    If there really is someone doing that – Only decide from what you read in the article and not the reader comments at the bottom of the page.

  • Duck

    “Clutching at Straws”. Is that the way i do posts? Well Sorry!!!!

  • Andrew M

    clean yourself up then.
    you are welcome to comment but be realistic and accept the review that says the falcon shadows the commodore.
    realistically the VE only matched the BF. of course the falcon will surpass the VE with this new update.

    sorry if i offended you in making my point but im totally sick of petty little comments on this site. i scrolled down this article some 200 posts after it was added and i saw plenty of childish remarks to the point where it became pathetic

    now you’ve got your apology, how about mine for saying i have double standards? did you check out my comments on the holden pages?

  • Duck

    Oz., I hope your not saying that im not trying to convince people to a falcon or commodre, because if u are u are wrong.

  • Oz.

    Duck, how come you saying you did not say anything about people to buy a commodore, now you saying you hope I’m not saying you not convincing people to buy Commodore or Falcon.

  • Frosty

    AndrewM, it was me who actually said that there are some Ford Fans on here that have double standards. I didn’t say specifically AndrewM or EscortGhia etc. I can remember seeing many Holden threads where Holdens have been in a word defamed,
    In regards to a VS Commodore, I and my parents in 1996 did a double sale for our local Holden dealer at the time for a VS Equipe. Both of us ended owning them for 4 years for me, and 5 years for my parents. In that time neither of us had any dramas at all and the only times they were in workshops were for scheduled services and when other vehicles had hit them in the rear. A EF Falcon ran into the back of mine one week after mine was delivered.
    So basically we never had problems and neither has anyoe I know.The only reason I change cars is to update to a newer model.

  • Observer

    Id hope the new Falcon is 100% new, I dont spend $35k for a second hand car.

  • Toyota_Hater

    GO FG FALCON!

  • EscortGhia

    tp regarding reliability if the falcon is so bad why do they use them as taxi’s

  • Andrew M

    the new reliability stats are in.
    reliability is now on fords side and not toyotas.

    but if you want to cling to your survey of a teddy bear thats fine

  • Wheelnut

    TP you say you and drongo are the only ones that refer to “facts” from external sources yet in the majority of your posts you both tend to refer to statistics and surveys which are subject to opinion and even more so manipulation….
    as they say there are lies; dam lies and statistics.

    Whereas others on this site refer to articles or reports from other Magazines or websites etc and show performance figures etc which are a result of testing to show how it goes against its rivals which is the objective of the reviews perfromed by those from: Motor; Wheels; TopGear; Drive; CarAdvice; Inside Line; Car and Driver etc

    And when one or more of the reviews come up with the same conclusion or performance figures that carries alot more weight than what Mr Joe Average believes in a survey.

    Because in most surveys you can get a different answer from various participants – it all depends on how you word the question how you ask the question and how they interpret the questions whereas an on road test is more substantial proof/evidence as to how good a particular car really is

  • Wheelnut

    Afterall; Thats how they come up with [Performance] Car of the Year winner or Bang For Your Buck winner.. a group of motoring journos actually drive various cars from various categories and assess their performance

    Whereas I doubt that most people/bogans in the surveys that you and Drongo refer to have actually driven the range of cars that the Motoring Journos have – from Daihatsu to Konigsiegg.

  • Oz.

    Seriously, I’m fed-up with this TP kid and his absolute crap he keeps spreading. According to him, all of the following is incorrect…

    • First new Ford Falcon in 10 years, with 90 per cent new body and components.

    • Ford has reportedly spent roughly $700 million on its development (although it would not disclose the amount), compared with $1 billion on the new Holden Commodore.

    • All three engines have more power. The 4.0-litre six-cylinder engine has 195kW, the turbo six has 270kW and the 5.4-litre V8 has 290kW.

    • All models are up to 12 per cent more fuel efficient than the ones they replace.

    • All Falcon sedans have front and side airbags for front-seat occupants. Curtain airbags that cover front and back seats are optional on the basic model and standard on more expensive versions.

  • Andrew M

    OZ,
    thats not even the start of what went on under the skin of the new falcon.
    what about all the pillars and doors being designed for greater space, strength and practicality

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    I second the motion OZ. Maybe one should deal with reality and realise that the review takes more precedence over this twerp dropkick unorthodox TP!

    I would only say the following:

    1. Front light is very similar at first glance
    2. Rear tail light is very similar at first glance
    3. It is 90 per cent new body and components

  • TP

    Escort I have gone through this taxi argument literally 20 times. Taxis in real terms have easier lives then your average private use vehicles; they are serviced properly and they rack up a lot of continuous driving kms (most engine wear occurs on start up and the first minutes after start up… as oil circulates through the engine and gets to operating temp, where its most effective). And Im not saying this to somehow defend Toyota, they are Taxis as well… in fact they use them in the middle east, a faaaaaar harsher environment for a vehicle. And RE 80% including engines, what are you on? Does changing the intake material on the I6 constitute a new engine? You’ve got to be joking. The Aurion was more new then the Falcon going off previous V6 Camry, because the most important components of the vehicle was new, THE ENGINE. I don’t care if the seats are new, the tacho is new, the gearstick is new… that constitutes 10% of a car, so 80% of 10% is new lol. The engine however, is old, still less powerful with more displacement then the Aurion, which as easily a class leading engine.

    Phill the sad part is Im not Dingo, he is just another poster who has some logic… you will see in a number of threads such as Toybaru a number of posters who agree with us RE Toyota. The only reason why we look bad here is because the vast majority of posters are Ford fairies, who like to pat eachother on the back. But the fact is, we are part of the minority who actually support our opinions with external sources of evidence, while Ford fairies do not.

    Hater Im not Blinkey

    Oz now you know what its like when Ford supporters spread crap about Toyota… such as an EA Falcon beating a TRD Aurion

  • Wheelnut

    So infact your statements are more full of opinion – be it yours or someone esles;
    Whereas the majority of other bloggers statements are more based on substantial facts / documented evidence and tests.

    Because you rely so heavily on surveys etc whereas we refer more to actual tests and reviews from various reputable magazines / websites

  • Andrew M

    TP,
    i agree,
    taxis do get a harder life.

    isnt stop start city driving the worst style of driving for vehicles?

    less air flow through the motor, hard continuous pressures on the brakes, transmissions constantly changing up and down the gears

  • Oz.

    “The Aurion was more new then the Falcon going off previous V6 Camry, because the most important components of the vehicle was new”

    Umm……Yeah……So has the new Falcon have new components of the vehicle. You can’t change that!!!

  • Andrew M

    OMG the engine capacity is still 4.0L.
    it must be the same as an EB falcon then too pfffffft!!!!

    gotta love the logic

  • golfschwein

    I have just read the above posts and laughed so hard I fell over. Just call me Kluger.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    LOL OZ….he is not worth the time of day. Prince Mini Brain is what we should call him. Hey it was you who dared me to change name when we were joking….so I took challenge up for a laugh – so its your fault! LOL…he is too bizarre to remotely pay more then 10% attention to!

  • EscortGhia

    actually NM i’m studding video games development start in the work force next year and the salary ranges from 68,000 py – 80,000 plus py depending on who you work for

  • Phill

    I want a blue G6Eturbo,like the picture 4th from the top.

  • Oz.

    Yeah, Phill I agree. I hope we can get back on topic now, hopefully caradvice’s #1 Troll has left, I hope.

  • Oz.

    Thanks jbot, It’s good you replying in a positive manner.

  • Andrew M

    also agree totally with Phill,

    the G6E is simply stunning and classy.

  • EscortGhia

    if i wasn’t so short 5.2 tall i would be eventually looking at a falcon next year but unfortunately it will be a focus for me

  • Oz.

    Why Escort Ghia? The new FG Falcon is for all shaped and sizes!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    The other thing about the Falcon which worries me….as I drive a LPG BF ute, it appears the seats do not have enough side support on bolsters as my BF feels like you sit flat on sit and not craddled in it. Plus the padding is soft as and had to get replaced once (which was told foam was crap they put in to start with) – and I aint heavy or large! Will have to look better at this! Thats one thing I like about Aurion is seating better! Will reserve judgement til know more as keen on new LPG ute.

  • EscortGhia

    well it all depends on what i earn on what i will get if i only earn just over 60,000 then it will be a focus XR5 would ,love a XR6 turbo or G6E turbo though, but i will be getting a loan to to buy the car so i can put the old tiered VK away and continue to keep the k low on the escort

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    The GSE Turbo is wickedly hot as. Real classy front and very well all comes together! The style whilst similar is not a BF and upon closer examination there are differences and lots of work has gone into this and I like it!

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au/ alborz

    Please stay on topic

  • jbot

    Why were my comments removed????

  • EscortGhia

    yep NM it’s the pick of the bunch

  • jbot

    Definitely no worse than anyone else’s comments here.. NM’s and Oz’s are still up??? WTF

  • EscortGhia

    because they weren’t on topic i would say

  • EscortGhia

    yeah TP’s should be removed as well

  • Oz.

    I don’t know why people complain about the FG looking too much like the BF, you can see where they have kept the same impression but they look different. The VE Commodore maybe be completely new over the VZ, but they’ve still kept the same impression too.

  • jbot

    Who was complaining Oz??

  • Oz.

    jbot, your insult targeted at me was very unnecessary, that’s why they were removed. But at least TP’s comments are gone.

  • EscortGhia

    yeah i mean they could have made another AU but they played it safe and its payed off it’s like the VS – VT but the falcon is more new

  • Oz.

    jbot, Frosty was complaining about it looking too much the same.

  • jbot

    Wat was the insult? The truth about what your “friends” on here truely think of you?? Truth hurts mate. Deal with it. So you throw some insults my way too, then have a cry about me doing the same thing??? hypocrite of the highest degree right there.

  • EscortGhia

    i can see some posts being deleted

  • Oz.

    jbot, that is a very paranormal thing to say. You simply don’t know if my “friends” think I’m an idiot or not. I will take back any insults I’ve thrown at you. as long as we get over it, it’s fine.

  • jbot

    I know what they said to me Oz..

  • Oz.

    Yes I have and i’m sorry.

  • Duck

    Andrew M, There was only one article in the Car Reviews of “Holden” section which was the Omega ute review which was the only one i could see u backed up holden.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Iam sorry JBOT.

  • EscortGhia

    wow duck move on man

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Iam still of the opinion that there is a lot more curvature on car as front is more rounded….i.e. shorter overhangs to front wheels as not so much wheels pushed forward as in classy VE, but more so front sides pulled further back towards guards! Iam very suprised nobody has really picked up on this!

  • Duck

    EscortGhia, this final to Andrew M sure he does back up GM some times, but he he didnt have to go off and have his tamptrum. So Andrew M, Sorry.

  • Duck

    NM, Please explain?

  • Duck

    The picture of the XT up top some were, thats not how the XT in real life looks like.

  • EscortGhia

    well NM i think they did move the fron wheels forward and the rear wheels backwards it’s the only way they can make the rear door longer

  • Duck

    Are plastic rims standard on the XT?

  • Joober

    Good review and good car, as I said back in the speculation, concept phase, the car looks too similar to the BF, this can be bad for a number of buyers who are looking for a fresh look (disregard the tech specs), especially if they had a BF II.

    Going for a spin in one of these soon, and if it cracks up to what is said, then, excellent job Ford, its going to be a new benchmark for Toyota and Holden to come up with their next 6er!

  • EscortGhia

    there called hub caps i i would say yes

  • Oz.

    NM: at least there is some difference you can see between a VE and an FG! As for the front over hang, I’ve noticed it doesn’t stand out as much now we’ve seen it uncovered.

  • Frosty

    And I stick to my belief that it looks to similar. There has got to be a balance to stand out as a all new car. I saw my 2nd FG FPV the other day this time on Plenty Road Bundoora before it turned westbound on the Northern Ringroad and it does look too much like the BA/BF in my opinion and yes I did take a couple of photos of it which I will post on a forum that I am a member of. Looking at a VE and the previous VZ you can tell from all angles that it is new with the flared guards, black benzel headlights and a rear that does look different but you can still associate it as a Commodore. The tailights and headlights on the FG could have been changed at least a little, Maybe some round brake/tail lights or L.E.D’s or made a difference with what the XT/XR range have compared to the G6 range and definately the FPV’s. From the rear you see no difference. Makes it easy for someone to replace badges on the rear and front bumper and someone could claim their 40K XR is a 60K FPV. HSV at least did some more difficult alterations to change to make it more exclusive when the VE came out as many in previous model Commodores did exactly what Ford buyers could do.

  • Wheelnut

    golfschwein Says: April 13th, 2008 at 11:13 am
    I have just read the above posts and laughed so hard I fell over. Just call me Kluger.

    LOL….Nice one Golfschwein!

  • Wheelnut

    Duck – I don’t know if Plastic Rims are standard on the XT but I’d say Plastic Wheel Covers [or Hub Caps] are..

  • Phill

    Im a fan of production car racing,and a ford fan.I hope someone takes the f6 or GT in the 09 production car race series and the 12hr.The f6 in particuler with the new front end and extra power could be a winner,provied they don’t have any issues and can stay on track.Holden also could have a shot with the hsv Club sport,I mean 6 litres and 307kw should go good.Come on ford and holden have a go why don’t Ford & Holden support it and get v8 super car teams to use it as a warm up to the saeson.That would make it like old days.(big,powerful,Aussies v8s,taking it to the smaller imported cars,like minis and cortinas.thats what started the whole aussie muscle car culture,XRGT)I liken old minis to modern day EVOs & STIs.Tyre wear may be the limiting factor thought for both local cars

  • Duck

    When does the falcon ute come out?

  • Duck

    …………….very good statement Frosty.

  • Wheelnut

    Taxis do have a hard life. Stop-Start traffic; Slamming Doors and Boots etc.
    Yet if Toyota are supposed to be so strong and reliable why are there so few Toyo-taxis as opposed to Falcons and Commodores?

  • Duck

    I’m very confused with fords line up.

  • EscortGhia

    frost fpv have to invest in engine development hsv just bye engines and tweak them drop them it there also a hell of alot smaller company than hsv and have a limited budget and why change what look good already hsv’s rear looks crap i hate the round look and if fpv did something similar people would still complain.
    as for the ve’s looks well lets see what did they do to chage it i know they put falcon frond lights on it moved the vz’s rear lights up put some flare guards that look ridiculous on the basic model and some bmw doors in the middle and put a holden badge on it the ve is the worst looking commodore to date and ivé liked all the commodores up till the ve but the ve is to much mix and match for me

  • Duck

    Does it go like this-

    Omega/XT
    G6/Berlina
    SV6/Xr6
    XR6T/SS
    XR8/SS or SS V
    G6E/Calais
    G6ET/Calais V

  • EscortGhia

    no its more like this duck

    Omega/xt
    G6/berlina
    sv6/xr6
    ss ssv/ xr6t/ xr8
    calais/G6E
    Calais V/G6ET

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    DUCK
    If you were to place an Orion over a BF and view from above….and transpose this comparison on paper, I think you will find the front is curved more back into front guards. Have a look at very similar front shots of the two cars I talk about and you will see the fronts swoop back more curved towards front wheels!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    i.e. you will see less of the headlights. Both shots have to be in very similar position but hey! It looks miles better in the Orion as not slab sided!

  • Frosty

    If the VE has Falco headlights the the Falco has a Hyundai elantra (previous model to what is out now) and the Corolla of a number of years back that had the 4 round headlights where square ones were still the in thing or even BMW who apart from a few short term cars have always had the 4 round headlights for over 30 years. Its just part of a trend so nobody can claim it as copycatting.

  • Oz.

    Are the bras going to be optional? Please Ford make those same bras that were covering the ‘Orion’ prototypes available!!!!!

  • EscortGhia

    yes yes i know frost but at least ford can say that there falcon is a falcon not there holden is a mixter of other car slapped together to look like a holden

  • TP

    Taxis dont have harder lives… educate yourself. Granted stop start isnt ideal, highway driving is, the fact remains that something like 80% of engine wear is at start up, Taxis get the better part of this. They are also serviced properly, another thing some prviate owners neglect, and another thing that has a major impact on longetivity. Regardless Wheelnut I already mentioned prity much all Taxis in countries like Saudi Arabia are Toyotas, that a harsher environment then Australia! So Im not saying this to be against Ford/Holden, Im saying this because its common sense.

  • EscortGhia

    do they sell falcons in Saudi and Arabia?

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    This Orion will be benchmark for Commodore and Aurion / Camry.

  • jp

    “Makes it easy for someone to replace badges on the rear and front bumper and someone could claim their 40K XR is a 60K FPV. HSV at least did some more difficult alterations to change to make it more exclusive when the VE came out as many in previous model Commodores did exactly what Ford buyers could do.”

    U hav got to b jokin……is a completely different front end with the ‘Racoon mask’ not enough for you?…. being the car savvy person u claim to be i am sure a few badges couldnt fool u…. actually given your above comments then maybe…

  • Carl

    TAXIS have an easy life says TP!!!!!!

    Here we go again arguing stupidity…….how do Taxis not have hard lives?????????

    Come on guys we have to ignore this ignoramus that on one hand argues that Taxis have privileged lives but in the rest of the world most Taxis are Toyota’s because Toyota’s are so reliable!!!!!

    This person is the most one eyed numnut I’ve ever seen and this web site will become boring and many people will just stop bothering if we continue to engage this wanker with his useless arguments!!!!

  • EscortGhia

    yeah dont know what tp’s talking about taxis do over 1,000,000k in there life my car nearly 30 years old and its only done 70.000k and the vk is an everyday driver thats done 200,000 20 + years

  • Wheelnut

    Aah yes but in the middle east the sheiks and tycoons et al buy either Chevrolet Impala [SS] or Caprices [Statesmans].. instead of Toyotas.

    So whilst they may ride in [someone elses] Aussie built Toytota but they prefer to drive a Holden – as their own personal transport.

  • EscortGhia

    yeah thats because holden have something Toyota’s will never have style

  • Frosty

    That Racoon mask is just part of the bumper. One that can be changed as a direct swap with a XR. Get the new frot bar, change the badges ad what do you have from a external point of view. Oh and get G6E mirrors with the intergrated indicators and what do you have a FPV.

  • Joober

    NM: Well the Orion is the latest car, so it ‘should’ be the benchmark anwyays, it would be suicide bring out something underpar.

    I agree with Frosty someone, it has to stand out as a new car, to have that total wow factor, only the people who read spec sheets, meticulous drivers can tell its a whole new car, for some it may be a one up version of the BF, a BG model.

  • Frosty

    Exactly, not even a fraction of the population would read up on cars. My brothers don’t even do that and most people looking for a family car don’t. They look at the safety credentials normally asked from a dealer and something that will fit their family and suits the conditions they drive in. Most would not read reviews or check car company websites which I have told my brother to do as he is in the market for a new family car. He is looking for a midrange sedan, etc Berlina/F6 and wants 6 airbags, ESP and Cruise control for the long drives he endures when transferring to different defence force bases with his wife and child.

  • Frosty

    Oh and it needs to look like a new car, different enough to a old model.

  • EscortGhia

    you can mack a omega look like a hsv front guards rear light body kit wheels and badges bam hsv

  • EscortGhia

    yeah but the FG still looks fresher than the VE so it dont mater anyway and the BA – BF are still nicer looking cars than the VE as well

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    CARL,
    Yes spot on comment.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    CARADVICE…..ummm better correct writeup as EGAS only available in 4sp automatic and this fact has not been made clear…minor as it is!

  • Frosty

    No, you cannot actually make a Omega look like a HSV without actually changing the rear panels housing a totally different set of L.E.D taillights and also the front side guards are totally different. Expensive exercise. HSV made them different for the exact reason of copycatting.

  • Wheelnut

    Thats right Frosty the unique holes for the HSV Taillights is done with a plasma cutter and is done on the production line Elizabeth not at Clayton.

  • Wheelnut

    I believe inorder to get a replacement Rear 1/4 Panel for a VE Clubbie you have to quote the VIN and Engine Number etc from a VE Clubbie – HSV then check to see if the car is actually registered or just sitting in a dealership.

  • EscortGhia

    there would be reproduction parts out there that would pop strait in a basic VE if there isn’t there will be in time just like there is for every old car out there

  • EscortGhia

    and i would rather have change over part on G’s, XR. and FPV because then i don’t have to spend the extra $ on replacing a light.
    and at least the XR’s look different to every other Falcon with the different head lights unlike the SS witch is just like ever other commodore but it has a body kit

  • Frosty

    Its not quite that simple and would not be cost effective as even in the event of a rear end accident panel beaters still need to order one quoting a VE HSV VIN Number. No where near as simple as replacing a front bar, Putting the G6E mirrors and replacing badges.

  • Frosty

    Maybe so but Holden could change that at any update with relatively little trouble but the SS looks good anyway and they are all Commodores regardless not a different company like Holden and HSV who just use donor cars and aren’t actually owned by Holden, Just like what Ford have done with FPV.

  • Frosty

    Oh which is why FPV use their own badge now to distiguish Ford from FPV Products just like HSV replaced the standard Holden Lion.

  • EscortGhia

    wow whats a a badge you gotta remember hsv has been around how long compared to FPV

    and the ve SS look boring my escort has more style than heap of crap hell my VK dose to both look stoke as a rock except for wheels

  • HSV Senator

    Escort what the hell are you talking about the fg looks like a bf have a look at a bf xt and a fg xt same front grille similiar lights rear lights almost identical the lights have not moved just a slight change in shape have a look at march wheels magazine a bf next to a fg almost identical and it also has a ve underneath which clearly has a better stance i want you to put a vz next to a ve and there is no similarties, maybe the front grille and that is supported by multiple reviews, ford and fpv’s don’t even have LED’S and they use the same cheap lights and your bf fpv gt was a disgrace a ve ss was quicker no wonder it was put in a xr8 and it still reaches 0-100 in 6.2 also your ba gt had a 5-spped manual with a optional 4-speed auto, yes the hsv’s did have a 4 speed auto but never a 5-spped manual LOL. We took the design of the ba lights wrong the design of the ve was done before the ba came out and if you look at the caprice lights you might think we copied of a mecerdes c-class no again the caprice came out 6 months before the c-class. Review from drive even stated the car looked similar to the bf and is critical when trying to sell. and the fg rear door line is identical to the ve.
    Anyway the whole fg range has the same body kit, whatever you think of the ve design is your opinion and obvioulsy your a ford fan and see things diferently. You got to be kidding me a omega a hsv Lol? HSV have a different body kit rear diffuser, front bumber different grille differnt pipes to the whole range. differnt unique LED lights which look great, their own side vents, what does ford have? same rear lights same body kit to fg same grille, front bumper and the rear bumber is the exactly the same and the pipes are exactly the same to the ford range, the hsv has differnet pipes to the ss-v obviously HSV are more individual than FPV. I went to the ford website i saw a bf xt and i thought it was a fg xt identical front grille and front lights and front bumber with the same plastic fog lamp inserts the same sad face look front bumber the rear has not changed and the hub caps are exactly the same are you blind or what? why carnt u admit it looks similar when the experts have stated it?

  • EscortGhia

    so i’m a ford fan because i like the look of the FG over the VE (your a holden fan it’s made clear from you post) well i actually like both holden and ford hell i like every commodore but the ve because they got peaces of every car and and put them together ford didn’t copied holdens VE door lines because the body shape was locked in in 2002 the BA was never meant to happen.
    ive own 3 car in my life excluding projects a VB SL/E with JP 202 a VK calais 5.0L and a ford Escort 2.0L both the vk and vb are great car but like all holden commodore there worth nuthing it 20 years time the ve and FG will be the same so you can have your VE ss worth nothing I’ll stick with my escort witch only goes up in value

  • Oz.

    quote: “That Racoon mask is just part of the bumper. One that can be changed as a direct swap with a XR. Get the new frot bar, change the badges ad what do you have from a external point of view. Oh and get G6E mirrors with the intergrated indicators and what do you have a FPV.”

    And what about the wheels, side skirts, rear bumper, spoiler & headlights? You also said side mirrors, so in that case you can’t make a visual FPV out of an XR8 by changing the front bumper and badges.

  • EscortGhia

    and I’ll admit theres similarity’s between BF2 and FG but the BA – BF2 still IMO looks nicer than the VE and the FG builds on that.
    as for the boss 290 it was an engine that was designed to compete with the GEN 3 GTS 300 witch suffered the same problem of low bottom end talk but it was heaver than the GTS 300 and who cares are 4.0L turbo FG flogs you 6.0l v8 and theres the key factor to Holden’s reason they beating fpv there no replacement for displacement except for a turbo or supercharger if whats funny though is hoa the TS50 could acheave times just as quick as the GTS 300 wow and fpv had a 5 speed so what ford had a 6 speed before holden auto thats better than all of Holden’s gearbox’s combined.

  • Duck

    EscortGhia, Um are u sure……”I’ll admit theres similarity’s between BF2 and FG but the BA – BF2 still IMO looks nicer than the VE” Are u sure? Because the VE looks nicer than the BF.

  • Duck

    EscortGhia, sure a ford fan, but u have to admit the VE looks better than the BA and BF. Thats like me saying the FG still doesnt look as good as the VY and VZ.

  • Oz.

    OMG what look better, BA or BF or VE???? :shock:

    It’s all about personal opinion that you keep to your self and is useless to try and argue about it.

  • Duck

    So Oz, whats falcon model would u least want to buy and the most favourite?

  • Duck

    ^^^^^^^^Out of the new FG range?

  • Duck

    Is the least favourite the XR8?

  • Duck

    And most favourite……….the G6ET?

  • AC COBRA

    Ford is World Class, Give me the new GE6 Turbo or XR6 Turbo even the XR8 is fantastic and will be very competitive to VE V8 lineup, the FPV range is inspiring from all angles, with major updates, power wars won again in this category, thanks Ford, you have provided us with outstanding cars once again………..

  • Oz.

    You right duck, my least favourite model in the FG range without going into FPV’s is the XR8 and my fav is the G6E Turbo

  • Frosty

    Falcon needs to conquer the world prior to Ford Oz being world class just like Holden has with the VE has in the Middle East and the U.S plus soon to be Europe. Commodore is the closest Australia has to World Class so far and is the only Australian car that has been nominated for the World Car of the Year Award.

  • Oz.

    This is my FG Falcon preference list, of course not shared with anyone this is how I personally rate them…

    1. G6E Turbo
    2. XR6 Turbo
    3. G6E
    4. G6
    5. XR6
    6. XT
    7. XR8

  • Phill

    Hopefully the new front suspension will help cure the XR8 heavy front end handling so it can match or surpass commodore V8

  • john

    nothing like the new falcon to cause such a stir here…hehehe…

    go ford!

  • EscortGhia

    my favorite to least favorite is

    1. G6E turbo
    2. XR6 turbo
    3. Xr8
    4. G6E
    5. G6
    6. XT
    and i lied i do like 2 models in the ve range the Sports wagon and the statesmen

  • john

    frosty…the sad thing is…ve commodore just beat the standards of the bf3 falcon…

    bf to fg is light years in advancement – whereas holdens big step only just bettered the bf series falcon…looks nice…but looks are just looks…you need to back it up with dynamics, performance and plain tastiness!

    falcon kicks butt more than ever this time…i mean 270 killowatts for a turbo 6…533nms of torque? um…hello…holden…go back to the drawing board…

  • Andrew M

    frosty,
    just because a vehicle is distributed to a few more countries doesnt mean it is world class.
    the VE got nominated for world car of the year and thats about it.

    a car has to actually achieve something on the world stage before i would call it “world class”.

    i know you were only responding to AC Cobra so dont get too fired up

    the BF easily matched the VE as far as 6cyl packages went. it was only really the V8 packages from holden that had some goodness in them.

    a review on the FG i have read sums it up perfectly.
    “the FG isnt quite the transformation the VZ was to VE, but then again it didnt need to be”
    it was also quoted that the FG now easily shades the VE

  • Andrew M

    EscortGhia,
    agree mate,
    i too like the new commy sports wagon.
    i can appreciate its design very much, but a wagon isnt something that i would see myself buying

  • EscortGhia

    me eather don’t like wagon that much but it i was ofered one i would take it i only hope that ford will do a sports wagon one day

  • Andrew M

    my guess is they will turn the mondeo wagon that is due soon to their sports wagon image and leave the falcon wagon as a load lugging fleet magnet

  • Oz.

    The Falcon wagon is like the Australian counterpart to the Crown-Victoria. Only still in production for fleets.

  • EscortGhia

    yeah but we can hope

  • Carl

    Andrew M, i think your spot on and that Mondeo wagon will be a big hit while the revised BFIII wagon, specially with LPG will continue to be a great value and reliable work horse!!!!

  • Frosty

    The BF came nowhere near the handling or safety of a VE. As has been recognised weight distribution on the VE was near 50/50 which brought it up to Euro standards. The BF and FG may have good handling but without the weight distribution being 50/50 it cant be better than the Holden, Commodore also had ESP standard on all models from the beginning. You can say the Commodore oly just beat the Falcon but unless you treat it like a true drivers car for both you can’t realistically make that comment.

  • Frosty

    Now AndrewM, that comment cant be realistically made until they test side by side. As mentioned previously tests were done on the VE whe first released. I guarantee the VE has not bee tested since despite the running changes that have occured since. Wait till the test between FG and VE MY9 out now.

  • EscortGhia

    This is truly a car that can shade Holden’s VE Commodore, in fact I’d be so bold as to say it is definitely a better car, especially when you consider attributes like the standard five-speed automatic and the balanced, refined handling and ride. hey frosty dose this sink in because everyone has been saying cant argue with facts mate

  • Frosty

    EscortGhia, no ad it wont sink in, everyone drives differently and everyone has a opinion. No direct comparison published as yet so nobody can claim the crown yet.

  • EscortGhia

    aww dose it hurt that the commodore only got to have a two year lead as Australia’s most refined car dose it sting

  • Rogue

    Hello……..What a great looking car the FG is!! Saw an XR6 and a G6E yesterday on the Melbourne road. I found it a very attractive car with its integrated styling lines. It is easy to see it as an FG and and we see more on the road it will become more so. Who is this TP guy? He is so full of shit!!!!

  • EscortGhia

    yes rogue the fg is a great looking car and yes again TP is full of it

  • Oz.

    LOL we can see how Rogue really hit the nail in the head there.

  • Frosty

    With a direct injection V6, 5 speed auto, turbo diesel V6 and Cylinder deactivation coming inside 2 years VE will leap massively ahead again very soon.

  • Oz.

    Yes Frosty, we know how leap frog apples within the rivalry of the Falcon and Commodore. I must say the Falcon would have great improvements too from 2010, with new Duratec V6 with possible “Eco-Boost” and also a Diesel in the future from 2010.

  • Oz.

    Oops I meant leap frog applies, not Leap frog apples!

  • EscortGhia

    With a direct injection V6, 5 speed auto, turbo diesel V6 and Cylinder deactivation coming inside 2 years VE will leap massively ahead again very soon.

    yeah for what a month then the Duratec witch is a better engine than the Alloytec will be in the falcon and diesel witch has been confirmed to be here within 2 years for the territory.

    not to leave out the turbo and twin turbo application and the new boss v8 ranging from 5.8L – 7.0L

  • Oz.

    I just came back from Ford’s website, I looked through it a little more than last time and I was surprised to see that Ford are offering LCD screens for the back seat passengers that are mounted on the back of the front seat head rests like what Holden has done. Now that is a big step forward (although I wouldn’t really watch TV in the back seat of a car while moving because of leg room and it can make you car sick because you not looking at the road), but it is a load better than what it used to be with just one in the middle hanging off the roof.

  • robbo

    I wouldn’t consider Motor or Wheels objective. Just look at their biased coverage supported by their special HSV editions etc. They’ve always had it up for the locals.

  • Pablo

    Seems to be a fair few references to a ‘BF3′ on alot of different website blogs. I thought the current model is BF2, with a very slightly revised wagon carrying the BF3 model code.

  • Oz.

    Pablo, ‘BF3′? I haven’t seen any references to the wagons.

  • Duck

    EscortGhia, There will be no VE in 2010. I think u are confused. 2010 is the year the VF is released.

  • Duck

    Hey Oz., u placed the XT higher than the XR8. Why’s that?

  • Duck

    I wonder what will happen when holden runs out of letters for the models eg. VB,VC,VH,VK,VL,VN,VP,VR,VS,VT,VY,VZ,VE and VF have all been used. While the falcon has been doing it diffferently to holden for a while.

  • FG

    why buy a new car for $35000 , when you can buy a 5.4L 3V Fairmont GHIA for $18000, and still get more torque and power plus TWO to THREE fold more reliability from Barra220/Triton engine??????? seriously! base line V8 from previous era simply eats its brother 4.0Litre 182-190 and now 195 or 210kW on RON98 4.0Litre. V8 is a V8. How i see them try to overtake me, just because he drives an XR6 just because it has the body kit and sports suspension its actually 1/4 of a second slower than a base XT because its heavier. How i see BFII XR6s trying to pull next to me and overtake me, the 220kW Barra V8 just smokes them away literally driving off!!!!, thats when you try to compare a 383Nm car with 472Nm, yet 505Nm on RON98. very very stupid to try and drag with a similar car but that has the V8 in it!
    cheers

  • Duck

    I think the Ford Duratec has a maxium kW output of 224kW.

  • Duck

    Good point FG.

  • Duck

    I wonder if Holden will do the same thing as ford and put turbos in the large car (commy) and replace the V8′s in the calais and put in turbo instead. If they do they i hope they still keep V8 as a option. Though i know one thing for sure that a SV6T would be a great option for them.

  • Duck

    Ive found out that the ford Duratec Engine does have an maximum output of 224kW.

  • FG

    on the open road tests its been proven during early 2002 on the test courses that the Barra220 then finally tuned and ready to be used for BA from late 2002-2006, was proven that its actually 40km/h faster “TOP SPEED” than a stock 4.0Litre six. 40km/h is alot, specially when you accelerate from 160km/h to the MAX to the point where engine cant even pull. That explains the fact why 1000m times for the Barra220 was 6 full seconds LESS than for the 182kW six. And yet to prove that the GT which was 290kW was just 7/16 of a second faster , which means that the stock 5.4Litre 3V was actually just 2 car lenghts behind the 290kW Boss. In other words nothing beats the torque curve of a underrated reliable 3V head.

    Which means that the V8 5.4L 3V has allready achieved say 227km/h , while the SIX is still accelerating towards 190km/h. V8 is a V8….. and oh boy how it keeps up with Typhoons;) , very close, but cant actually overtake them, unless you’re lucky to oversmart the driver, because at the end of the day V8 is a V8.

    Reason why it was taken off production was because it was too reliable in F-150/250 trucks, never broke down and there was no need for more parts to be made, no money was made no profit.

    Only problem with 3V is when somebody doesnt know how to take off the spark plugs they can break them, but so far my 5.4 191800km and still like new! JUST LIKE NEW, i wonder how much longer is this thing gona look new.

    2003 Fairmont Ghia “fully optioned” 4speed, 5.4L SOHC V8, soon to be powerchipped, extractors, cold air intake system.

    We are looking at 285-300rwkW.

    ps: the FG XR8 290kW doesnt do 6.3s 0-100km/h as some said.

    I think its a little faster, i’ve driven XR8 5 speed 2003 and it did just under 5.8 seconds using LIVE WIRE 0-100km/h and it was a car with no mods, with just 260kW/500Nm stock , in fact it was so warn out that it just made 251kW and under 500Nm, a car with 150000km which was taken to drags for literally even week since 2003, 220 weeks in total.

    cheers!

  • Duck

    So it looks like ford only put the mirror indicators on the upper spec models such as the G6E and G6ET.

  • Duck

    Drive said that the XR8 (Anti-Spam Word!) does a 0-100km in 6.3secs. Not saying u are wrong FG but http://www.drive.com.au said that it was that time.

  • FG

    Ford Duratec has the max power of 227kW and not 224kW.

    227 because it has to compete against the new Chyrsler with Direct injection ,same engine used for VZ – VE V6 “ALLOYTEC”

    but those 227kW are at 6800rpm, vs 220kW at 4750rpm.

    there is only 360Nm on Duratec 3.5 at some 4600rpm ,vs 472Nm from 3250rpm to 4000rpm, and yet still 400Nm at 6000rpm.

    so technically a duratec should have 300kW/400Nm to be able to match exact driveability and pulling power/torque as the Barra220.

    and speaking of Barra230 with extra knock sensor , revised exhaust and ZF 6 speed.

    such cars in form of G8 and Fairmont Ghia will be hard to beat for driveability and torque.

    thats a medium sized-large 5.4Litre SOHC with massive cams, massive valves, de-tuned fine tuned to just 230kW and 500Nm for BF-BFII

    meaning that you get a balance in power/torque and piece of mind that the engine will do 1000000 miles easy.

    which means that even at 200000km or 500000km it will still make 230kW/500Nm and wont lose compression or fail or overheat such as every single V6 today in the market , along with every single other American pusrhod V8 along the HEMI and LS1/LS2/LS3 and even the 7.0Litre.

    5.4L SOHC was designed to be a work horse.
    Putting it in a car thats 800kg lighter from F-150 truck means alot.

    thats another 500000km more in engine life.

  • FG

    yes i know they used GPS to track it at 6.3s , but again read between the lines, i dont think thats true. Personally i can believe all i want and i will continue.

    Because if an old warn out screwed up BA XR8 series 1 with just 260kW or less because its old and stuffed can do 5.8s 0-100km/h manual with a dead clutch,then something is really wrong.

    I still believe that FG XR8 is a hell of a car and if you want to secure another great V8 engine “BOSS” buy it because they are as good as BARRA engines;)

  • Duck

    For anybody that wants to see video tests of the the new FG range from XT-XR8 click this link to……………www.drive.com.au

    P.S.- The hyperlink is under the XR8 picture.

  • Duck

    Click the hyperlink above my last comment (not the one above this one but the other one)

  • Duck

    FG, have u tested other XR8′s because that one might be the “LUCKY” one?

  • Duck

    So the Alloytec and be used at lower rev’s then the Duratec…………cool!

  • FG

    i have seen a few on youtube , on the net and drive dot com, we are talking marketing games here, brain washing and propaganda.

    Drive a car yourself.
    It will be impossible to decide which car to drive.

    My wife drives a VZ Berlina V8 6.0Litre 260kW/510Nm

    and i can NOT tell the difference between Barra220 Fairmont Ghia and that.

    only difference is anything above 4500rpm, but below say 4000rpm,Barra220 bends the arm of a 6.0L GEN4 that she drives.

    she’s a hard core holden fan.We had arguments over buying that thing in early 2007.

    but its a very quick car. but not quicker than Barra220 , 100 to 160km/h.

  • Duck

    ^I meant. So the Alloytec can be used at lower rev’s then the Duratec…….cool!

  • Duck

    So its hard living together being a Ford fan yourself and she a holden fan? But im sure u like both cars as good as the other, sometimes?

  • Oz.

    Duck, I just prefer the XT over the XR8 because it looks good for a basic point of view, more than the XR8 is for a sports point of view. The XR8 is a disappointment for it’s class, while the XT isn’t such a disappointment for it’s class like the XR8 is.

    FG, are you the same person who used to be called “BFII”?

  • FG

    no , the alloytec as we know it is as we know it.

    what you just said LOWER revves means nothing.

    Even the duratec 3.5 which is complete crap, makes 340Nm at just 2000rpm, and dont be tricked with marketing specs like 335Nm at 2800rpm for the SV6 or base V6 Commodore.

    any car makes similar figures.

    the Alloytec is 2nd worst GM engine ever after the 3.8buick pushrod that went wrong in USA and was passed like a ball here to us to ruin the commodore.

    4.0Litre Inline six engine is much better than Alloytec, even an old EAII engines arebetter ,still going hard at 1.1million ks.

    speaking of torque a stock BA 182kW makes 360Nm at just 1500rpm

    beat that!!!!

    stock Barra220 makes 411Nm atjust 1000rpm

    beat that!!!
    :)

    stock EF/EL/AU-AUIII make 300Nm at just 1700rpm.

    still beating the crappadores!!!!

    so the Duratec will still win , that 300Nm at 2000rpm which is okay;)

    still wont beat the I6 4.0 for driveability torque and pulling heavy loads.

  • FG

    i remember that person , no i am not a BFII, i am Robert, i chose to be free when typing up something about cars.

    i assume BFII drove an SR??? V8 5.4L??

    i drive a Fairmont Ghia Mercury Silver 2003 5.4L stock.

  • Oz.

    Quote: “yes i know they used GPS to track it at 6.3s , but again read between the lines, i dont think thats true. Personally i can believe all i want and i will continue.”

    Remember, they also had the Air-con on while they were doing testing the 0-100 times.

  • FG

    the air-con only really affects smaller cars below 2Litres.

    if you think about it , there is 290kW at the crank, once the cogs spin and continious belt moves the aircon compressor , there is not even a loss of 100watts of power.

    yet there is probably ZERO loss , because there is 520Nm of torque also , once that goes trough the gear ratio of the wheel which spins on which the belt resides

    its probably converted to 600Nm from 520.

    so there is no power loss , the car drives as if nothing was turned onn!!!

    it slike riding a bycycle in the 6th gear and trying to pull hard using your 500-600N per leg, but once you drop to the 2nd gear

    you turn faster and you have more torque , say 1500N

    so , same with AIR-CON .

  • FG

    and that myth that AMG merc needs 60kW to just power the supercharged, is a load of crap, it probably needs 500Watts of energy and literally no WORK to spin the supercharger that will give it another 250kW on top of the engines natural power.

    unless that car is some old camira , or toyota or nissan below 90kW, you will see the power loss and the car will feel slow and slug!!!

  • Duck

    If u look at it like i saw in the video, the falcon has such shorter front overhang than the commodore.

  • Oz.

    I’ve seen the video reviews on http://www.drive.com.au/FordFalcon2008/Video/ and I must say, for Drive being that positive about it, that really is a promising sign.

  • Duck

    I got an error when i clicked on your hyperlink Oz.

  • Oz.

    Oh I made a typo, sorry, backspace the last forward slash at the end of “video”

  • Tony M

    I don’t know why there is any mention of the duratec motors or the alloytec in the same breath. The true is the alloytec motor in the Commodore will compete with the straight 6 (6I)in the Falcon. The Falcon has the better motor for the day to day driving in Australia. The FG Falcon looks more today while the VE Commodore looks over the top, especially with the front flares. I can’t wait to read on the tests between the FG range of cars and its competitors, which should include the Aurion. From the initial reports the fuel consumption figures for the FG are much less than either the Aurion or VE Commodore, and believe me, this will be a major selling point. The sleeper it appears from what I have read is the G6E Turbo. Smart move including launch control on this vehicle. I bet there will be a lot of Commodore owners with V8′s who will start to regret jumping into the purchase of their so called high performance cars when the FG will certainly out perform them in acceleration, handling, interior and definately fuel consumption.

  • Duck

    Tony M, where did u here about the fuel Consumption? because the Aurion will still lead in fuel Consumption at 9.9L/100km while the falcon is 10.5L/100km and the Commodore 10.9L/100km

  • Duck

    The Aurion has a 6 speed Auto standard. The falcon 5 speed standard Auto. And while the Commodore still uses a 4 speed auto. So it makes sense with the fuel consumption.

  • Glen

    FG, its good to hear someone heap the praises of the 3 valve but a naturally aspirated 6 just doesnt compete with a V8 without revving like an BMW M3.

    You’ve got to remember than Falcon engines are notoriously tights when they are brand new but after about 5-10000 kms they loosen up & perform better. So the XR8 may do 6.3 now with aircon on but with aircon off & 10000 kays on the clock it will definately be in the 5.8 region. Hence why FG’s mates 2003 5 speed XR8 can do the times it does. And can you imagine what the XR6 Turbo can do when it loosens up.

    FG switching on aircon even with larger cars hinders performance by about 1 or 2 tenths. Not huge but it still makes a difference.

  • Duck

    So Glen does every performance loosen up? Tell me about it.

  • Glen

    Ok who was the idiot whose claiming that its easy to convert an XR6 into a FPV replica. Your kidding. Do you want to know how many executives i see with HSV body kits on them, hundreds. I have seen the od AU dressed up like a T-series but they are easy to spot.

    As for the current models, HSV put a plastic cap to cover the extra space left over from their different taillights.
    The FPVs have differnt headlights to the XR’s for the FG. And who cares that FPV don’t have LED tailights?? They’re for show and if they bugger up its not just a simple job to fix them. Yeah they look cool but the standard tailights do the job fine. Plus if you get genuine FPV parts you need VIN numbers like HSV.

  • Tony M

    Duck: I suggest you read this article above by David Twomwy. I have quote directly from this article ….”With 195kW, impressive real-driving fuel economy in the order of 9.0L/100km, in part thanks to the all-new French sourced five speed automatic gearbox the FG Falcon is a large car winner.”

  • Duck

    French now is it? Geeeeezzzzzz….it used to be German or they still have it?

  • Duck

    400 comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Glen

    You got selective memory duck??? The 6 speed ZF gearbox is German, the 5-speed is French built american designed & teh 4-speed is Aussie built

  • J

    Most ECUs switch the A/C compressor off under WOT, so A/C argument for 0-100 & 1/4mi times is mostly moot, except for working out real world fuel economy figures & real world driveability. Also, just a minor point – remember that A/C & supercharger horsepower requirements are directly proportional to RPM, so 500W might be correct at idle-cruise, but it’ll be much higher at higher RPM.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey Matt Im almost back babe……….any word on your next drive? Id stay away from the liquid lunch if your in the F6 hahaha Your smart enough to know that though babe!

    Hey Carl hadn’t thought of a Mondeo in a wagon but I need space,4 dinning chairs n 2 carvers can fit in a V70 doubt Ill get that in the Mondeo,spoken to Wheelnut on the space in the Sportsy n I think that could do the job,BMWs wagons are to small in height in the back! Hey Carl I imagine U attending Motor Show here next week, no suprises I guess but will be good to see some new stuff up close.

    Hey Golfy ya want to go ?

  • Duck

    BM, the Sportswagon would do the job.

  • Carl

    Hey BM, if you mean the Adelaide motor show??? no I’m stuck in Sydney for the time being so I’ll have to wait for later in the year……as far as your search for a wagon goes have you seen how big the VW caddy or the Roomster is??? the later is a little ugly but good looking wagons with a lot of room are hard to find….everyone seems to want an SUV!!!
    I’ll be in the market for a wagon soon but am waiting for both Mondeo and Mazda 6 diesels to come out before i commit to anything!!

    Anyway good luck with your search and have fun test driving!!!!LOL

  • Andrew M

    Frosty,
    a few notes,
    ford has also had ESP standard in the falcon since the same time as the VE came out.
    they had to add it as fleets frowned upon manufacturers that didnt have it.

    also do you honestly think that 50/50 weight distribution is the only way to make a car handle?
    how is the 50/50 achieved by the way? with a full tank of fuel and 2 lard a-r-s-e-s in the back? (something like that)
    whats the falcons weight distrubution in comparison to the commys? you make out as if its 80f 20r.
    dont forget that weight distribution isnt the telling factor in a vehicles handling attributes.
    have you heard of that funny stuff called suspension?
    ford easily has the better suspension setup as opposed to the setup holden are still using courtesy of “Mr Macpherson”
    whats the good of 50/50 if you arent going to back it up with good suspension?
    perhaps thats why fords 6yrold still very much held its own when speaking of dynamics? and now the FG gets revised rear suspension and the much praised pivot suspension from the territory.

    and back onto weight distribution, in some instances it is preferable to have a little more weight over the front wheels as it aids turn in ability

    its not just handling that would see a particular vehicle shadow another. its judged on the vehicle as a whole package.
    the VE never caught up nor passed the falcon on its drive train. the commy still runs a thirstier and slower 6cyl donk and a clunky 4sp.

    and if you also read the news you would see that ford announced a while before holden that they would have a diesel falcon by 2010. thats right ford will have the diesel at around the same time as holden.
    also at the same when you say holden will have a direct injected v6, ford will also be switching to the new V6 of which their is a direct injected variety

  • Phill

    I agree Andrew M,Fords have always handled better than Holdens except from when the VE come out,until now.Even then they only just drew level.Fords well and trully ahead now

  • Wheelnut

    And in a couple of years Ford are also switching back to a Pushrod V8

  • Duck

    Hey Phill if they do it will only be for 2 years.

  • Duck

    How much kilowatt’s Wheelnut?

  • TP

    Phill I draw your attention to Drives ‘hit for six test’. The VE was faaaaaar ahead of Falcon in handling, which was criticised for its bad steering feel and unease over rough surfaces. Even the Aurion didnt get attacked that much re handling

  • Phill

    Duck,Wheelnut – whats this you say about new Commodore suspension,just interested

  • Phill

    TP-Funny how you use the word attacked,shouldn’t that be critisised

  • Andrew M

    TP,
    isnt it funny how this apparently “attacked” on handling falcon still out performed the “non attacked” aurion

  • tj42

    GENTS, BEING A LEANER TOWARDS FORD (MAINLY BECAUSE I FIND SOME FOLKS SEEM TO BE A BIT TOXIC TOWARDS THE FALCONS WITHOUT GOOD REASON)FOR MANY YEARS I FEEL THAT HOLDENS MOVE TO KOREAN BUILT CARS IS A MISTAKE. FORDS MOVE TO GERMAN (FIESTA,FOCUS) AND BELGIAN (MONDEO) BUILT CARS FOR THE AUSTRALIAN MARKET AND NEW ZEALAND MARKET IS A SIGN OF THE COMPANIES PASSION FOR WELL ENGINEERED VEHICLES. AS LONG AS PEOPLE WITH THIS PASSION STAY IN THE FIRM AND THE ACCOUNTANTS DO NOT BECOME TOO POWERFUL THE COMPANY WILL ALWAYS SURVIVE. WHEN HENRY FORD’S SON COMPLAINED THAT THE OFFICE FOR THE ACCOUNTANTS WAS TOO SMALL,HE SACKED THEM. HE THEN ASKED HIS SON “HOWS THE OFFICE SPACE NOW SON?”

  • tj42

    DUCK i THINK YOUR MUM IS CALLING YOU, YOUR TEA MUST BE READY

  • Andrew M

    tj42,
    was you last comment the honest truth?
    ive never heard that one before but doesnt surprise me.
    good ole henry would have been a great man to meet i would reckon

    he also solved the problem of people not being able to afford motorvehicles in the early days by giving his employees a raise so they could

  • Andrew M

    ^^^^^^
    ha ha ha not the tea call, the one before that

  • TP

    AndrewM outperformed? Wheels hit for six has Aurion winning. WASP test didnt have a Falcon in it, just a benchmark XR6 (NOT a base model to compare). Mind you WASP wasnt dont on an uneven surface (ie public road) was it!?

  • Andrew M

    TP,
    but the falcon still beat the aurion in the handling section of the test didnt it.
    you gotta learn to deal with it mate.
    show me a review where it clearly says aurion handling is superior to falcon.

    to quote that very comparison (“hit for six”)
    QUOTE………..
    “The Aurion is not the best driver’s car here”

    the aurion won for other reasons, certainly not its handling attributes

  • Andrew M

    testing…….

  • Andrew M

    HHHMMMMMMMMMMMM

    how come it let me post that^^^^^^^^ but not my other comment????

  • Andrew M

    TP,
    but the falcon still beat the aurion in the handling section of the test didnt it!!!!

    you gotta learn to deal with it mate.
    show me a review where it clearly says aurion handling is superior to falcon.

    to quote that very comparison (“hit for six”)
    QUOTE………..
    “The Aurion is not the best driver’s car here”

    the aurion won for other reasons, certainly not its handling attributes

  • FG

    Falcon can obviously beat Aurion in every department.
    At the end of the day its the nature of the INLINE SIX technology.

    how does a stock BA XT 182 sound like , making 438Nm at just 1200rpm

    it only takes extractors, ECU tune, K&N filter.

    and there you go , just under 450Nm and just under 250kW of power.

    all from a naturally aspirated 4Litre SIX

    and you’ll still have 700000-1000000km of reliable driving.

    ps: LS2 6.0Litre engine makes only 380Nm at 1500rpm , thats 40Nm less at the same revves from the VZ series 1 5.7L LS1

    what a shame!

    and a stock BA182 makes 360Nm at 1500rpm and its just 4Litre ,

    simply prove my point, its INLINESIX, just the native occurance in these engines.

    Ford Falcon from BA to FG has better characteristics and attributes than any other V6 powered vehicle up to 4.0Litres on earth.

    Whether is BMW, or Merc, or Volovo, or Audi, or what ever.

    Nothing beats the INLINE SIX from Ford.

    ;)
    how does over 400Nm of torque sound like on the FG 4.0L stock when you run it on RON95/98

    Aurion TRD makes 400Nm at 4000rpm

    ahahahahahahhaha , and on RON98 , run it on RON91 and you get under 390,380Nm , and again at high unusable 4000rpm.

    While the FG I6 maintains the broad torque curve everywhere.

    FORD ALL THE WAY!

    I’VE ALLREADY SAVED UP FOR DEPOSIT!!!

  • FG

    ps: why doesnt BMW make front wheel drive cars???

    because once they’re over 1000kg they become unstable, have poor power delivery ,understeer.
    Poor handling.
    etcetc

    nothing beats a real and proper mans car, a family car , our creation our invention that just has the FORD badge on it , but in fact its 100% AUSSIE

    that is our Falcon with a bix INLINE SIX!!! rearwheel drive!

    TP has to check his facts very carefully , and re-learn what is the true meaning of “refinement”

    Falcon is the best mass production car on earth!
    We live in Australia and we have the best large family sedan ever!

    Nothing ever comes close to a Falcon unless its over $200000

    Falcon will always be part of Australia, and soon after the I6 is gone , there will be the re-birth of it aftermarket, and we’ll all still enjoy its pure innocent and natural TORQUE!!! no other engine can copy!

    even TVR speed six I6 4.0L engine cant match the torque of a 4.0Litre in our Falcon;)

  • FG

    spam word = ELFIN , ahahaah that aint Aussie either;)

    designed in UK , mechanicals from USA!

    FORD= just a badge , = 100% Aussie designed, you might call it something else and not FORD, but i am sure and its the fact , it aint Crown Victoria thats American,but it is a FALCON ,and it is 100% Australia excl: Barra220/Boss engiens “they’re from USA mustang platform”

    cheers

  • Duck

    “DUCK i THINK YOUR MUM IS CALLING YOU, YOUR TEA MUST BE READY”

    tj42, what would make u say something like that? idiot! Did i say something that hurt your feeling?

    For a smartass that knows everything, I DIDNT HAVE ANY TEA AT ALL! JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW STUPID U ARE!

  • Duck

    FG, fords still not 100% aussie like u say, because it was from america originally.

  • Bret

    But Duck, after some 45 years of fully local design and development it is as close to 100% Australian designed as any mass production vehicle is ever going to get.

  • TP

    FB, Falcon beats Aurion in every department? You better go tell Wheels that, Drives large car of the year two years running. The I6 is good for torque, but thats about it, Aurion wins for power and being FWD it doesnt lose as much power to Wheels.

    AndrewM you got latest Wheels mag? You always say it cant be proven FWD is more efficient (despite various links), how do you like this quote “With equal technology, any RWD car is going to be about a mile per gallon less good than an equivalent FWD car”

  • TP

    Bret who cares, the fact is the profits go overseas… Ford aint Aussie.

  • AC COBRA

    Ford is more Australian than your stupid cardigan wearing Toyoda TP……

  • Bret

    TP, So does the profits from Vegemite! and most power utilities, phone companies etc etc.
    I never made any ownership claims, I was merely responding to Duck, the Falcon is as Aussie as its ever gonna get. Period.

  • Andrew M

    TP,
    where did i say the FWD = more efficient argument cant be proven?
    i said in the aurions case it cant.
    I’d hate to see a RWD aurion with their 4.0L V6 donk in it. you would need plenty of woolies dockets on hand for your refuelling

  • name (required)

    oi for all those toyota fans out there get on a plane n fuk off to japan cause ur all un australian ford austraila is australia and ill evn say it for holden

  • Pablo

    Real smart bloke above (Aurion is made in Altona, Victoria numb nuts!)

    The start of this article still refers to BF III. Why, when the out going model is BF II?
    The only BF III that will exist is the wagon built from May 08.

  • http://integra Rogue

    I love watching Camry\aurions spinning their front wheels on the local boatramp……..no torque and no front wheel traction as they struggle to pull a boat up the ramp…….i have towed two out recently with my XR6 ute…

  • http://integra Rogue

    oh i forgot to say……..that TP guy is a total idiot !!

    Everyone knows that out in the real world even a BF gets better overall fuel economy the a Camry (Aurion is a Camry) They struggle with 4 passengers and luggage up hills because of their serious lack of torque, you have to thrash it so they make it up hills.

  • GhisGT

    Rogue: Aurion has non-switchable traction control and if they have no torque, why would they be spinning the wheels?

    Oh, and by the way I don’t actually like Aurions, but they sure as hell go like stink.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Ok anyone been watching the Nizpro site………..

    Cats out of the bag take a look you will be impressed!

    go to 1300nizpro.com.au Woo Hoo F6

  • http://integra Rogue

    No front wheel traction while towing

  • http://integra Rogue

    The FG is a great looking vehicle. The design is a nice evolution of the BA series. It has a nice sophisticated look. Saw one in Geelong yesterday in a carpark close to a BF. It looks much different but has similarities. Anyone seen the NEW BMW? It looks like the last 20 BMW new models but it looks different. Same as the FG ……elegantly different but some elements similar. Now……will eveyone go on and on and on and on about how the BMW looks the same ? My guess is no. And the NEW Model X-Trail…….and Jaguars………..same thing…..Similar but different.

  • GhisGT

    Quote FG:
    Ford Falcon from BA to FG has better characteristics and attributes than any other V6 powered vehicle up to 4.0Litres on earth.
    Nothing beats the INLINE SIX from Ford.

    LOL… VR38DETT? VG30DETT? VQ37HVR? NSX 3-litre, damn I could go on forever. They are some outstanding V6′s out on the market with more power standard, fantasic engineering and tons of potential. Take the blindfold off mate ;)

  • Simon

    I’ve got the the impression most of the posters are teens to 20′s.
    The new falcon looks good and sounds good on paper, but it seems its only ever destined for the falcodore argument. Sure the turbo is quick, and they’ll look great for 12 months, and then holden’s offerings will again be on par if not slightly infront. The falcodore’s drivers will inevitably be young males/bogans or fleet drivers. Intelligent car buyers will steer clear due to vicious depreciation and the common nature of both. Sure aurion goes like stink, but it will never be competeing on level terms, its just not built for big loads or towing.
    BTW toyota does have an aurion wagon – its called kluger!

  • Simon

    And just curious – what the hell is “world class”???
    I certainly would be reluctant to put anything aussie made against anything from Germany.

  • The Axe

    How about this people, especially TP.
    When FG is out, go out and drive an XT, then an Aurion and a Commodore Omega.
    I was lucky enough to drive XT and Omega back to back and the Omega felt a generation behind FG in NVH and handling. On the same FG drive day others were “lucky” enough to drive a G6 and a AT-X Aurion back to back on a wet road. They found the Aurion to be “scary” taking corners at similar speeds to XT due to Aurions understeer.

    Seriously, just drive them all. It will be easy to decide which is the better car then!

  • http://integra Rogue

    The Axe…….yes I agree. The BF Falcon is a very good car and stacks up closely to the VE and Camry\Aurion. The FG will be way ahead. Having compared interior quality between VE and FG the VE seems so cheap with cheap looking black plastic and slabby looking console. Ergonomics are also way behind. Holden would not have expected Ford to build the FG with so much new stuff……..they believed it was going to be a “TOP HAT” model, as did most people but that was not right. Great effort FORD.

  • Roudy

    He i got to say something, What is wrong with the power windows being in the centre console?.

    Think about this, You need to go there for the stereo controls, A/C controls, Centre display controls and to change gears, So i say this, What is so bad with having power window switches in the middle of the car?.

    Right hand never leaves the steering, Left hand can control everything else?.

    I can’t ever work out why so many cars today have so many different switches on both sides of the car, You need to balance your hands to get around to all of them.

    On interior i have to say this as a owner of a Calais-V 6lt 6 speed.
    I have been to the Motorshows and been very impressed with the G6E interia, However it would be rude of anyone to call something as the Calais-V interia cheap!.
    Both use plastics still and so does everyone else. Holden uses the same plastic dash parts as Mercedes does, So no there not cheap bits.
    Both cars have about the same to offer in interia gizmo’s.
    And lets not forget it’s only the FG that finally finally! introduced trip computer display that us holden nuts have been enjoying and playing with in our dash clusters for so many years.

    Ergonomic are fantastic to as driver i have no issues, Very easy to use. Most of what i need is at my finger tips on my Steering, You can’t ask for more then that. I have a personalised key that is programmed to my settings. Wealth of safety and comfort with performance and amazing handling.
    I was far of being tempted into something that can’t be matched by any Australian car maker, And that’s the Caprice. Loved the looks as much as any car but it’s very large.

    But I’ll be awaiting my test drive of the FG G6ET once in.

  • Andrew M

    Roudy,
    falcons have had a trip computer for years. not sure what you mean there?????

    i actually dont mind the window controls on the door. after all that is where the arm rest is. if you can change gears, adjust the radio and push the power windows button at the same time you are one talented sole.

    have you ever wanted to wind down the windows with out having to get completely in the vehicle? well thats one big benefit of having them on the door

  • The Axe

    Roudy, the reason why power window buttons are ideally on the door is simply because that is where the window is!
    Climate control and the CD player are in the middle of the dash so therefore the buttons will naturally be there too.
    Now, regarding Calais, on any VE using Benz dash plastics is a joke. Holden has plenty of hard coarse plastics vs the soft feel you find on most Benz dash parts.

  • http://integra Rogue

    Mercedes quality plastics in a Holden? What a joke!! The only thing that would be of the same quality in a Holden and a Merc would be the petrol!! lol Roudy……go sit in a FG and then straight away go sit in a VE…….its like going from a Merc to a Daewoo…….oh……wait……so thats where Holden got the plastics in the VE from……Daewoo………Holdenwoo!!!

  • Andrew M

    has anyone else noticed that the toneau cover set up on the falcon ute has changed??

    the elastic loops look to have been done away with

  • Phill

    I bet holden has no new suspension for the future.just media hipe

  • Starky

    Time for my occasional one hit wonder….

    TP The Aurion has never won a comparo in wheels except for the “Gold-Star” deal thing where resale is the most important thing. I quote
    “The 380 maintains its steering edge over the Aurion. It deals with road imperfections better than the Sportivo…
    “The Falcon strikes a great balance… it’s in a different league to the front drivers”
    In another Comparo the TuRD couldn’t even match the 15 grand cheaper XR6 turbo.

    And don’t give me any of Drive’s crap – to them, vehicle handling, steering and ride is as important as the insurance costs.

    Seriously mate you’re such a joke that you even made me come out of my “Silent Witness” state.

    Also “With equal technology, any RWD car is going to be about a mile per gallon less good than an equivalent FWD car”

    So, lets see, with the Aurion being .2 litres per hundred more fuel efficient than FG, that means it is half a mile per gallon better. So that means that the Aurion has inferior fuel-saving tech – if it and Falcon were equal, it would be a mile better per gallon! See maths can be fun TP – when school holidays are finished ask your primary school teacher about it.

    Don’t expect any of the other manufacturers to match FGs complex suspension or steering – As if Holden would, look at the past – stuck with a semi-trailing arm the whole time Ford had either Double-Wishbone or Multi-links. Toyota on the other hand is completely useless – I believe the Camry still has struts in the rear, not sure about Aurion. And for all the droners about 50-50 weight distribution – how about the porsche 911?

    Time to climb back into my hole….

  • http://integra Rogue

    TP……..ayou go on about Toyota quality well didnt you hear about the TRD engine blow ups? And another Toyota engine problem just recently? OH…and did you hear about how Toyota locked away TRD engineers, designers and the rest for about a month to try and sort out TRD? They admit TRD is crap……..now do you believe it??

  • PoisonEagle

    TP and Dingo are the worst bloggers ever HAHAHA. That G6E interior looks better and better every time I see it. I defy any potential 5 series customer to resist.

  • ok?

    Is this a joke?
    Is that a mondeo or a mistake?
    “to offer only four airbags on most models, with curtain airbags a $300 option on all but the premium models”
    And they expect a 5-star safety rating…Get real..
    I am in no ways a Holden Fan (Never owned one, but have owned Fords years back).But a Holden can’t compare in look with this thing. The Holden is 10 classes above this, easily.
    “factory fitted speed limiter at 200km/h.” A joke, simply a joke.
    Only think that looks good is the fuel figures.
    If this thing is anything like the previous Terrioty or falcon I hired, Ford are definently screwed, even more then they are now.

  • TP

    Rogue whinge whinge whinge… did you also hear they stopped sales? Meanwhile Ford continue to sell crappy vehicles (go to Ford forums, XR6T are riddled with problems). Meanwhile Holden sell oil guzzling and brake fading vehicles. Toyota are the best in the business, yes they have hicups, but they continue to be at the top

  • TP

    G6E interior is very nice… exterior though? UGLY.

    Exactly OK, among other media groups Ford has come under fire for four airbags, the market is going for six now, a new model should have matched it, especially given the price premium Ford are asking. Youd be crazy in base model guise to get a Falcon over a Aurion.

  • Lisa

    Crazy?
    3 reasons why I would buy a Falcon over Aurion:
    1. Space 2. Towing 3. Safer

    Only reason to buy an Aurion: you want a quick family car but can’t afford anything better.

    On second thoughts, it might save on gym membership as you fight that wicked torque-steer!

  • PoisonEagle

    We get it already,TP- dishwashers on wheels make u rub your tiny wee wee. Curtain airbags are a cheap option- why not give people the choice? Base Aurion might have more features but I guarantee the FG is in another league for driver enjoyment. You can’t even turn off stablity control on the Aurion, because they knw the chassis is incompetent.

  • ah huh

    Lisa-
    3. Safer..with optional Curtain Air bags LOL…say that
    again…I want to see there ANCAP rating please..
    The aurion is by no way a cheap car. Its a better car for the money, by a longg shot. Tell me why hire company Hertz are now mainly purchasing Toyota’s? They dont have and fairlanes now, they have presaras, they dont have terriotories any more, they have klugers,no falcons, only camry’s and aurions. Why? Have MUCHHHH better resale, and a thing won’t go wrong with them. Let the hirers throw as much as they want at them and they wont have a problem.
    I could easily buy myself a Caprice, Grange, 7 series bm, S or CLS class merc. But did I? Nope. I don’t need a badge to look good, I want a car that suits me with reliability, quality parts and a good drive. The VE just didn’t cut it, the old falcon, let me just say what was actually RIGHT with that car. Not the safety,not the fuel bill, not the drive and not the horrid rattles, just to name a FEW.

  • Andrew M

    ah huh,
    the hire mobs are using more toyotas because surprise surprise toyota gives then a damn good deal.

    there is still talk that maybe the extra airbags will become standard before the falcon is released.
    but the funny thing is, by the time you option the extra bags, it is no dearer than its competition.

    you guys carry on like they are trying to sell a car with out any airbags for the same price as one that has plenty of them. even if it remains an option, is the fact that you only have to tick a box for the falcon going to deter you to another make where the box is automaticlly ticked even if their is no price difference.

    if you dont know how to click the end of the biro to be able to tick the box, you shouldnt be able to purchase a vehicle to drive on our roads

  • Andrew M

    if you are whinging about having to tick a box for the falcon, you were never going to buy a falcon anyway, so piss off

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    AH HUH,
    Der like dont you get it into your head that Toyota offer a more lucrative package on the quantity Hertz wanted…. obviously you live in a tunnel and conclude different. It comes down to dollars and cents….something you display no sense in as you wear a Toyota Puller cardigan! Andrew M slam dunked your comments as reality pointed out!

  • http://integra Rogue

    TP….you are a total idiot. Just because they sell more doesnt make them better. Toyota’s quality rating all over the world has fallen by a big margin in the past few years. The Camry\Aurion isnt exactly free of faults, there have been many fault ridden Camry\aurions too.

    The FG is a nice looking car……..if you think that it is ugly what do you think the Camry|Aurion is? Out of place angles and bumps all over it ……..FUGLY !!!!!!!

  • http://integra Rogue

    The Camry\Aurion has six airbags and it doesnt have a 5 star crash rating. Why? Well Toyota wouldnt supply a vehicle for the pole crash test…….. they knew it would fail because of the poor body shell strength. A few more airbags doesnt cover the shortcomings of their body design. Just because it has more airbags doesnt make it safer…..
    Ford deserve alot of praise for designing a car for function ahead of styling for a change. This makes it a safer vehicle because it is easier to see out of while driving, unlike VE and Camry|Aurion with their poor front\side and rear visibilty. The front wheel drive is also a negative for the Camry\Aurion.

  • okie

    STOP praising a car that has not been released to the public.
    Why is this a Falcon v Aurion/Camry event now?
    The Falcon is aussie as an Aurion, face it. Both designed in Austrlia and produced in Austrlia, by overseas companies.
    Both will have its strengths, and its weaknesses.
    Both will have it faults. In the eyes of one, and in the eyes of another, which car suits them will be different in the end. Neither car is better or worse.
    The Falcon – what they call an “Aussie” car. Been around long long time. Known for descent reliability.
    The Aurion – the newish one on the block (Designed by a an ex-FORD worker) that simple minded people will not give a go. “OMFG!! ITS FWD!!!WHATTA **** BOX!!” Lets say its crap!!!
    Oh and I own a Grange.

  • matster

    Hey the turbo six is obviously a hero engine. A dufus earlier called the 6L from the VE a Lump of Lard. Obviously has no idea about engines at all. I do not know the weight of the turbo six but it is an iron block so that adds alot of weight. The LS2 only weighs only 208kg due too its alloy construction, which is extremely light for such a capacity. The 5L V10 from the M5 weighs over 50kg more than a 6L V8 from Chev.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Quote “The 5L V10 from the M5 weighs over 50kg more than a 6L V8 from Chev” Does it really? Maybe its all that technology BMW have in its engine that makes 373 kws,mmmm

  • http://- matthew

    The XR6 turbo is going to shit on the M3 and M5 crap heaps. It will eat them before breakfast. Put a nizpo kit on them and all the nazi pieces of rubbish will see are the turbo’s tail pipes in a blaze of unburnt hydrocarbons. BMW’s are shit!

  • hmmm

    BMW>FORD
    I don’t get it.

  • matster

    Bavarian Missile. I am not saying the M5 5L V10 is not a good engine. Obviously one of the best engines ever made. Won 6 engine awards in 2 years at the International Engine of the Year Awards. I was just saying that the 6L V8 from the VE is not a Lump of Lard because it is extremely light (208kg). Also the 7L V8 (LS7) weighs only 208kg as well and puts out 377kw itself so I don’t know why the M5 V10 with its 373kw weighs 50kg more if you are saying its because of the power it weighs 50kg more! mmmmmmm

  • matster

    Apologies for going off track on a Ford blog. Definitely looks like the turbo six is the pick of the bunch. Especially the upcoming F6!
    PS Should not have mentioned BMW on here because then it brings out the rabble who have no clue.

  • Bavarian Missile

    hahaha Master……….Im blonde but not stupid. Firstly can you tell me where you read that the BMWs V10 weighs more ? Have you ever seen BMWs layout of the internals of their engines? They are a work of art.Were they weighing with accessories attached on both or unattached ?

    What I was trying to say that BMWs V10 is a lot more complicated engine internally than your pushrod V8! Although I find it hard to understand 50kgs heavier,knowing the components they use in it are mostly light weight. You know the current 4 litre V8 in the E92 M3 is lighter than the previous I6 3.2! No point in getting into a the litre per 100 horsepower war cause you know who would win there.

    Ford do need to get rid of their iron age iron block though, I think the new 5 litre their looking at is all alloy. Funny how Ford go backwards in litres looking for more grunt though! But I guess if the old 4.6 quad cam would do 0-100 in 5.4 sec in a Stang back in 2001 then the stroked version should be capable of more for Ford Australia.

    I guess in the end BMW have 50 weight distribution and thats what matters in the handling side of things!

    Matthew Im a supporter of Fords and Nizpro,I started the post on the Forum for it after all! But running BMW down against Ford is just plain stupid! Compare factory against factory for a start,cause there are plenty of 1000HP M5s out there in Germany if you want to talk after market mate.

  • http://- matthew

    BMW sux, over priced and under powered for the dollar, a complet joke.

    M5=$457 per Horse power.

    XR6 turbo + VE SS = $127 per horse power

    BMW are shit.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Grow up Matthew what are you 12! You do know a BMW equal to a German Holden in Germany! Not in the mood to argue with kids!

  • PoisonEagle

    Dont worry BM, Natural selection will sort him out.

  • http://- matthew

    “Not in the mood to argue with kids!”

    What, sick of arguing with yourself?

    Loser.

  • mathew

    Bavarian Missile. BMW’s own specs for the 5L V10 on their website list the 5L V10 at 258kg!
    PS A killer engine. By the way “My rabble post” was not referring to you. It was directed at someone who said M5′s and M3′s are shit. Now that is clueless!

  • mathew

    Bavarian Missile. Sorry. Autospeed has the engine weight at 240kg. So I don’t know who is right. I suppose BMW would know you would think!
    PS As for horsepower per litre. An easy win too BMW. Hands down!

  • matster

    Oh No. I used my real name instead of Matster!

  • http://- Bavarian Missile

    I agree with matthew, BMW’s are realy over rated pieces of junk, particulally the M3.

  • No Name

    Oooh naughty someone pretending to be BM not the done think spuddo.
    Oh and you spelt ‘particularly’ wrong, something BM would not do.

  • http://- Bavarian Missile

    Oooh naughty someone pretending to be matthew not the done think spuddo.
    Oh and you spelt ‘particularly’ wrong, something BM would not do.

  • James

    You guys clearly have never driven a BMW and dare I say will never be able to afford one either (short of at the wreckers), so its unlikely you will ever appreciate the difference. You don’t like BMWs?? GREAT!!! I’d hate to think of one wasted on someone who prefers a falcon/commodore/aurion. Someone who has no idea!
    I don’t see people who once owned a BM buying anything aussie made, rather those who go BM will never turn back. You simply aren’t comparing apples with apples and your ignorance shows!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Not all those that cant afford a BM are as arrogant as Matthew James,there are plenty around like him though but not on this web site………..Matthew with 2 Ts, you are a child,I guess as No Name said could tell its you cause I can spell! Mathew with 1 Tee…..maybe the V10 was having a fat day with BMW when it got weighed? hehehe

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    To state the obvious – seems like couple of teenie boopers a bit short in the top paddock! Or to keep it building related….a couple of tiles short of a roof! LOL

  • Fred

    It’s just intriguing why Ford chose the G6 variation to replace the Fairmont name, since the G6 is actually a Pontiac (Holden’s sister company) model. If they put a luxury V8, then it becomes the G8, which is the American Commodore!

  • Oz.

    I saw the new FG Falcon for the first time today at a Ford dealership here in Brisbane. I’ve read on Ford Forums and a lot of people say “It looks better in the flesh” The trouble is I’ve seen so many pics of the FG I almost thought I was looking at the photos.

    I didn’t get a great time to have a good look, there was an XT, some XR6s and one XR8 ute. I’ve been reading over Australian F’Forums and someone said the utes are coming later in the month. Unless this was a pre-production version, I must of been lucky, the XR8 I saw was actually a UTE!

  • Andrew M

    OZ,
    mate i saw an XR ute and a G series sedan on the back of a transporter today.
    first time i have seen one in the flesh.
    i didnt get a good look at it.

    what dealership are the ones you saw at?
    im thinking that the transporter may have just dropped some at my local dealership. hhhmmmmmmm
    ill have to take a stroll in

  • Andrew M

    oh yeah,
    and the adfverts on the radio have been saying 10 days till sale date.

    i havent heard that the utes have a later sale date though. i assume they will be released at the same time.

    also the other outstanding thing to come, is the NCAP crash test results.
    they would have to do that before sale release i would assume

  • TP

    Hard to believe the Falcon will look better in the flesh

  • Bret

    Hard to belive that TP can type this sort of rubbish. Who turned the computer on for you, mummy??

  • Ford G Series

    Hard to believe TP has any brain cells, he has no flesh to protect them….

  • Oz.

    I haven’t herd any radio commercials because I hardly ever listen to the radio, but they say the TV ads are airing this Sunday.
    Andrew.M., The Dealership was Bryan Byrt Cabalaba. I did stop and look in at them from the street, the three XR6′s were along the street on those rack things, I remember one had the 18″ Y-spoke wheels and the other two had the standard 17″‘s. The XR8 Ute colour was the light blue(I don’t know what the colour name is), it had the 18″ Y-spokes too. The XT was dark blue(once again I’m not too sure on what Ford calls that colour ether, maybe “Steel”), I think the FG XT front looks a lot better than the BFII front. Well that was good you actually saw a G-series on a truck, There weren’t any G-Series’ there at that time, unfortunately as they are my favourite models before FPVs. The models that we most likely have to wait a little longer for are the G6ET & XR6T. Oh and of course, we still need to wait for the crash test results.

  • Harry

    I’m thinking this guy “FG” Is a little flying high if you get me, He’s a little over the top?.

  • Roudy

    “Rogue”

    Is there something you simply can’t come to terms with in that?.
    Can you not believe it or refuse to believe it?.
    You would be seriously surprised at how many parts are shared from car company’s. To ignore such a thing is plain ignorant.

    They already share a Gearbox and some suspension components from the same manufacture.
    Did anyone ever believe that GM and Ford Motor Company could share car parts between there models?.
    If looking hard enough you will find GM parts in older Fords and FoMoCo parts in older Commodores.

    On petrol stop sniffing it please it’s frying your brain.

  • TP

    Saw one in the flesh yesterday…. prity much the same as the pics except shinier (like all cars)… nothing special over previous model.

  • Comment 500! By Duck

    Comment 500!

    Yeah, i know TP its so boring isnt it?

  • Duck

    Okie, what model Grange do you own? A E series, Z series etc?

  • Roudy

    Me?.

    Hey guys, BMW must be doing something right, Holden and Now Ford are Bench testing there cars on most models they build,
    So i guess that means something?.

  • Nice work ruining the comments sections of every page on this site

    This is a real shame, everyone that argues and inflames this chest beating wrecks the use of this site for everyone. Can’t people move elsewhere and talk rubbish about cars they don’t understand.

    The new FG does look better than the BF by a long way. I think Ford is pushing the right direction, though its TV ads don’t show the car off to the best of its potential. My model pick would be G6E or G6ET for their higher technology levels, and of course with a small bullbar, a pair of spotties, a UHF and a phone kit with a decent gain aerial. Still I think I’d take the Calais V instead though.

  • http://non GTR

    Damn the new falcon is so cheap compared to the VE!

  • TP

    Open Road Magazine (by NRMA) sums it all up nicely… best Falcon ever, but still not good enough, the local Falcon is dead in a few years

  • Bret

    okie Says:
    April 26th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
    “The Falcon is aussie as an Aurion, face it. Both designed in Austrlia and produced in Austrlia, by overseas companies.”

    Well NO! Actually the Aurion is no where near as Aussie as the Falcon. Yep both built here, but Falcon is designed here, where the Aurion is a USA designed V6 Camry, with a locally “styled” nose and tail. Absolutely minimal local input and virtually no engineering design.

  • Wheelnut

    Aah yes TP but Toyota are yet to deny the rumours which have been around since the 2IC at Toyota mentioned in his statement at the Tokyo motor show last year that they are considering to close their Oz operations

    So neither Ford nor Holden are the only one in danger

  • Never buying a Ford ever again

    Trust me, the new Falcon aint anywhere near as good as the BA/BF. especially the turbo. The 5 speed auto is junk, the power steering hose continuously blowing and a Starter motor that does’nt allign ???? any wonder they’re only producing 200 a day. Can’t they launch a new car successfully just once ???

  • Duck

    Some people think the FG floggs the VE in Exterior……………….well that’s a load of CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its two years old and still looks VERY DECENT!

  • Duck

    ^Compared to the FG!

  • AW

    I had a look at a G6E this morning, and bloody hell it was nice. Well built, comfortable, better than a VE and Aurion. I think my money is going to Ford. So much better than a VE, and cheaper than the Calais V for the same equipment. Holden, wake up, and build something that is good. The FG left it for dead. I then had a look straight after the FG at a Calais V, and it didn’t seem anywhere near as good. I have always been a Holden man, but I have changed my mind.

  • Cobra & GT40

    Give me a FG anyday, I had a look at Fords new Falcon today, geez I was very impressed, makes the VE look kind of cheap and nasty like thier other rebadged Korean offerings..

  • AW

    Cobra & GT40. I couldn’t agree with you more. The car was fantastic, an absolute testament to Ford. Even the XT was great. But the G6E looks like it is for me. I am hoping for a drive next weekend. Can’t wait. The car was comfy, well built and had an impressive list of standard features. Much better than the General’s Offerings

  • TP

    I am ghay

  • Duck

    ^That obviusaly wasn’t TP. So who was it?

  • mitch

    why is it that the 6.0 L v8 307kw gts puts out 550nm and the new 6.2L 317kw puts out 550nm also is the right…..

  • Duck

    Im not sure ask Wheelnut. But just because there is a slightly bigger fuel injection does not mean higher torque only kW. I think that is right. Is it?

  • mitch

    thanks…

  • mitch

    what do u think of fords v8 5.4L 32v

    the chevy has abit over it in powertain….or do u think the new 315kw (from 290) will give the oldgirl a spark…

  • Duck

    Mitch, go to the forum. People will answer.

  • micheal

    ford are just copying the holden VE range because they knew it was doing well just look at the two and you will see there are not many differences but still ford say they made it all up

  • FRUGAL_ONE

    Do you relise i “stuck ther thing on pole” as the FIRST[Primo!] poster here?

    Anyway, i want a Falcon Glovebox -v- Commodore Glovebox, would be very good and important for mine! :-)

    Which would be better and superior overall?

    Like Glovebox room, quality, size, opening, light, cooling-vent, lined or plastic etc etc

    Thanks in anticipation,

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Holden Technician

    to Duck Says:
    June 3rd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
    i think the difference between the 6.2L and 6.0L is actually bigger displacement??? not fuel injection. no one on this website seems to have any mechanical knowledge at all. holden is a billion $$$ car manufacturer exporting to 16 countries, the commodore has been australias best seeling car for the last 14 years in a row now, so that probably tells everyone here who makes the better car. plus holden put more techincal support into their technicians, but simple minded bogans like ford supporters dont think of things like that, ie ea to au headgaskets failing, ive talked to a ford tech, no fix, put a new headgasket on it and wait for it to blow again, seems pretty intelligent?? just all opinionated rambling, nothing said on here has any factual basis.

  • Holden Technician

    and probably should point out the fact to that the commodore is the only true australian made vehicle, designed and engineered. so if yous dont like an asutralian built car, theres a great international airport in sydney maybe yous should get better acquainted with. add the fact that ford australia is closing down its factories in 1-2 years. just adding more to who is the better car manufacturer. good luck with the american built fords. and getting parts (headgaskets) for all your fords when they close down.

  • TINMAN

    Falcon Vs Commodore, Commodore Vs Falcon.
    Both represent unbeatable value in size/power/price ratio.
    Both are now designed and built in Australia by USA parent companies.(The final decision is always made by the USA HQ)
    Both direct Profit, if any, back to USA.
    Both require Australian Government support at manufacturing and retail levels.(Our TAX money).
    Both use local and imported components.
    Both support thousands of jobs.(Here and overseas).
    Both are fundementaly flawed in Quality Control.
    Both suffer shockingly from poor resale value.
    Both are fighting over same diminishing slice of the market.
    Both are vocally supported by many people who never bought a new one.
    Both are doomed to extinction as their consumption/emission/price ratio ceases to make sense in the modern world.
    So hurry up and buy the Falcon, as it is the most technically advanced, one of the two.
    The Falcon will be the first to go.
    The Commodore will be around a little bit longer due to political/patriotic reasons.
    HAVE A NICE DAY :)

  • ron

    some would say my BF this and that, my FG this and that. Some would say “i have a dual independent VCT” this and that, but in fact both BA and BF have identical engines. While the BF only has a different EDIT that makes its DOHC work independently when on idle or when you turn the car on for the 1st time, once you revve it above 1000rpm they both synchronize just like on that 1st BA Barra182 motor.Both cars in fact make 190kW, whether its BA182 or BF190 , it is the same, if you run a Barra182 on RON95 you get 190kW at slightly higher 5250rpm versus 5000rpm, and you get just a little more torque 3Nm extra and yet at lower RPM.
    And why lower RPM? , that is because higher octane fuels burn faster, therefore more power and torque will occur at lower RPM, while it wont be felt as much at the certain point in the mid–range, most is felt at low RPM and above 5000rpm.
    So basically a BF is just a software revised BA, both making same power/torque, while the BF is tested a lot more on premium fuels, hence the reason why it appears to make 8kW more. But there is more to this story, some claim that Ford used old testing equipment, so 182kW was just an estimate, some claim that car makes 180kW and 390Nm and not 182 and 380Nm.So there will always be room for error, the EUROIII emission standards that BF is under have measured that Barra182 to make 190kW/383Nm, so if you’re driving a BA it basically is a BF, but the only difference is that each cam is asynchronous at idle which saves fuel, instead of sitting at 1.7l per 100k on idle, on the BF its 1.4-1.5L which saves fuel thanks to the ECU software EDIT.
    Otherwise an engine is 100% identical and no special or different cam phasers are employed or different cam profiles.
    Unless we compare it to an FG which is slightly different yet approx 95% identical to the fist Barra182.
    So run your Barra182 on RON98 and you’ll see the figures that were never advertised, a figure of something like 194kW at 5000rpm and 402Nm of torque between 2500-3500rpm. Run it on RON91 regular unleaded and on a good day we are talking about 185kW/395Nm until the engine warms up and goes back to calibrated and tested 182/380 figures on RON91 on a reasonable humidity level in the air.
    Its all the same, whether you sit in a BA XT or BF XT or FG XT, whether a 4 speed auto , 5 or a 6 speed ZF.
    Unless we’re comparing EB Falcon and AUIII, there would be a significant difference, but when comparing say BA Fairmont 4.0L versus BF Fairmont 4.0L there will be zero difference, and if you were to compare a G6 4.0 195kW/391Nm on RON91 with BA/BF 4.0, there wont be even 1% difference on road performance, unless the FG made 220kW/440Nm so that the difference can be felt and seen as substantial or significant at least in theory.
    Correct me if i am wrong. Even when testing a new FG on RON98 where it peaks at 205kW/420Nm , i see only a small, very small incremental improvement versus the BA/BF XT on the same fuel, whether in 4 speed or 6 speed guise.

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