2008 Nissan Maxima ST-L review

By Matt Brogan | February 27th, 2008

2008 Nissan Maxima ST-L review

“You’d be hard pressed to beat the combination of space, options, and price”

Model tested:

2008 Nissan J31 Maxima ST-L Sedan – $34,990
Options available: Metallic Paint $395, Sunroof $2,585.

Gutsy V6, Smooth CVT, Quiet, Affordable

Dated Design, Soft Handling, Weak Stereo

CarAdvice rating:

- by Matt Brogan

The large sedan segment is not quite what it once was. I remember a time when just about every second car on the road was a big family sedan. Times change though, and we all want greater flexibility from our vehicles – fair enough too – but what about those among us who still want a reasonably priced full-sized luxury sedan.

We all seem to be of the impression that owning a sedan like this means a Berlina or Fairmont, a few might even stretch their imagination so far as a 380SX or a Prodigy, but what about the Nissan stable?

The trusty Maxima seems to have been looked over in recent times and whilst it may be getting a bit long in the tooth, that doesn’t for a moment mean it isn’t still a great option when it comes to choosing a bigger luxury car.

For starters the standard appointments offered and just how well these present for the price really do impress. It’s uncomplicated, comfortable and easy. But it’s more than that, it looks elegant, it goes well and it’s a pleasant ride.

Sure the styling is getting a bit dated, after all the design goes back to 2005, but even with the progress made since then everything is still relevant and offers very little reason to want for something more high-tech when you consider that you can pick one of these up for $35K – new!

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So just what do you get for your money? Well, acres of room for a start and it’s nice room too. Leather seats, spacious design, simple and ergonomic lay out, just what you need for those long mornings in traffic or the weekend road trip for a few more cases of wine – and if like us that weekend trip turns in to several(ish) cases of wine, then you’ll have no problem bringing them all home.

The boot, in the standard Japanese unit of measurement, is three golf bags. It’s easy to access, has fold flat 60/40 rear seats and accommodates a weekend’s baggage, golf clubs and a few cases of vino with no problem at all.

Inside the cabin it’s not too shabby either. The dash, although quite basic, is easy to understand, very practical and super easy to use. The climate control is quiet (though has no condensation sensor) and the seating is comfy and supportive, especially around the shoulder region when many cars tend to lack.

You also get eight way electric seat operation, one touch power windows, remote central locking with panic alarm, four airbags, trip computer, rear centre table, cruise control (steering wheel mounted – not backlit), and pop out magazine holders in the doors.

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My only bone of contention was the stereo and the let down it is to the package as a whole. Everything else is just right, again it may be dated, but it’s functional and works well – except the stereo. It has no depth, poor clarity, weak reception and at volume is utter rubbish. To top it off it has no steering wheel mounted controls and was thought of before the iPod took off, so you can leave that at home.

But stereos aside – how’s it go? To be honest, surprisingly well. The 3.5 litre V6 is shared with the 350Z and although de-tuned to 170kW and 333Nm for Max, you’d hardly notice. It’s easy to see why this motor has won Ward’s Top Ten Engine award twelve years running.

The big Max gets up well, and the CVT keeps it rolling along very swiftly. It’s smooth, promt to respond, and far better than any other CVT box I’ve driven which takes some doing because ordinarily I’m not a fan.

Power delivery is also very smooth, predictable and incredibly consistent with only a hint of torque steer under hard acceleration which makes trundling around town altogether as pleasurable as can possibly be.

Steering and feedback is on par for the mechanicals utilised and given the car’s size is actually quite manoeuvrable. Reversing sensors would have been nice as the rear window line is a little high, but in all I found parking the Max of little consequence.

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Braking is quite strong, capable and with thanks to ABS, EBD and EBA is very safe as well. The pedal feel is hardly sporty, as you’d no doubt expect, but is confident enough after a little additional input from your right foot.

Perhaps my only real concern with the Maxima’s drive as such was the handling. I know, I know, it’s not meant for that, but bear with me. The reason I bring this up is that any sudden change in direction will be met with large amounts of body roll, a tad of a lateral slide, and a big input from the VDC before the straight and narrow is again reached.

It’s not pleasant and it’s certainly not what I’d have expected before experiencing it first hand so it really is best to leave that VDC switch on – just in case.

Max has a pretty standard suspension recipe, McPherson Strut front / Multi-Link rear but as it’s aimed to a luxury audience and the supple ride expected thereof, the handling side has suffered as a result. But, if you’re happy to not turn very quickly and love the relaxed leisurely feel of a comfortable ride, especially on the open road, then Max will no doubt suit you.

It may also be your last chance to secure a car with the Maxima name as the Skyline badge will most likely re-appear late this year. For this price Max is a great deal and despite being a little thirstier than claimed (15.0l / 100km urban), is well on target when cruising the highway (10.0l /100km highway).

In all though I must say I like the Maxima a great deal and have enjoyed my week with it, especially the touring side of things. The car represents great value for the money and is so easy to live with day to day that I reckon you’d be hard pressed to beat the combination of space, options, and price in another vehicle.

CarAdvice overall rating:
How does it drive:
How does it look:
How does it go:

• Engine: Nissan VQ35DE 3.5 litre DOHC V6 with VVT
• Power: 170 kW @ 5,600 rpm
• Torque: 333 Nm @ 2,800 rpm
• Drive: Front Wheel Drive
• Transmission: Xtronic six ratio CVT
• 0-100km/h: 8.1 secs (claimed)
• 0-400m: 16.5 secs (claimed)
• Top speed: 225 km/h (claimed – electronically limited)
• Turning circle: 11.4 metres
• Emission rating: Euro IV
• Fuel type: 98 octane PULP
• Fuel Consumption: 10.8 litres / 100 km (combined)
• Towing Capacity: 1,200 kg
• Warranty: 3 years / 100,000 kms

KJ

I used to like this car when it came out but now it just looks like a shoe box on wheels.
Les

Matt
I still think this is a very classy car, yes the design is a bit old .. but is still quite elegant and can last a fair few years.. However I was surprised to read that this will be replaced by the Skyline.. I mean its great that the Skyline will come ( dunno where you have heard that still, cause it makes more sense as an infiniti ) … but why wouldnt there be room for a new Maxima.. as well as the Skyline ( size wise the skyline is smaller .. ) Les
http://www.caradvice.com.au Matt

Hey Les, it’s just one of the many rumours going around. Nothing set in concrete yet but it would appear to make sense as there have been no whispers to date on a new Max! I guess we’ll stay tuned and see.
ScottB

Snoresville. Great engine in a dull, dull car. Why can’t we get some of the Nissans sold in the US?
Les

Great Point ScottB.. I agree.. Altima for example would fit in so well with the Aussie Culture.. and comes in a 4 6 and hybrid.. Better yet.. to cut costs, they can build the car here.. Take over Mitsubishis old car plant in adelaide and become a genuine Competitor to Toyota.. and their lousy camry/aurion.. Mate. I dunno why they dont do it.. … Also Matt.. I reckon a new US Maxima will be previewed soon.. based probably on the intima… so I think Maxima/teana is still alive.. Comments ?
Grahame

I’ve had the TI version for 4 years and 80K KMS, for mostly city driving with passengers and some longer freeway runs. For me this car is very livable. After 4 years it’s still a nice place to be in every day, it does the job well, never gets in the way and NOTHING has ever gone wrong. It even has the original tyres. It’s not a “performance car” but I have an MX-5 for playtime. I’m thankful for carmakers like Nissan who don’t loose sight practical priorities and can produce cars like this for such a price.
Mitch

The USA version has about 190kw, we miss out. is this from poor fuel?
Masynee

The USA version is also priced as a Camry competitor. I don’t know why Nissan Oz have always tried to pitch it as a semi premium vehicle.
golfschwein

I’d be no more likely to fly to the moon than choose a Camry over this…yeah, they’re getting on a bit and they’ve always been a soft car with an IKEA interior, but no less likeable for that.

Mitch, are you converting American horsepower figures to kilowatts? Be careful that they don’t measure their bhp in SAE format. It gives a far fruitier figure than our DIN measurement.
Frugal One

PRICES -

Nissan are NOWHERE with pricing in Oz, but learning.

The Murano, Maxima, Tiida and Pathfinder all had massive price cuts to get them where THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALONG!

The next to get a price cut is the WAY overpriced Dualis, it MUST be Suzuki SX4 money, ie kick off @$20k, not at high $20′s like now.Price WILL be cut, mark my words.

GT-R is also overpriced, only bogans will buy it instead of a pedigree royal *badge* 911 [I KNOW ITS QUICKER/FASTER, WHO CARES?] you need the label at the end of the day, will take Nissan to bring back Infiniti before it can have any class.

As for Maxima, nice car but its FWD and has poor resale.

Cheers

F-0
Matt

Les – still no whispers of if the Max (or Teana) will – or when it will – arrive here. All I hear is it’s (current Max) due for update soon. I have heard more rumours about G35 than Teana/Max though like I said, we’ll keep you posted.
richard

I to have had my max for 4years and its been great car.Its better than my old vt holden i had its faster use less fuel and its comfy.And it has a lot of gear standard in it.Yes sure its no sports car not for someone who wonts to throw it around corners.But as a family car its perfect
Reckless1

Nissans are overpriced, and their customer support and warranty are woeful.

There is nothing in the Nissan range that can’t be bettered for less money.

The Maxima has always had a SHOCKING resale value for those poor mugs who buy one.
Frugal One

Reckless1 -

EVERY brand should be doing better with the prices [as in lowereing them] exchange rate is much much better now and the price has not been reduced?

Not all Nissans are overpriced, both the Micra and Tiida have the best quality/price/features ratio of there segment.

The X Trail is bang on the money as is the Patrol and Navaras.

300ZX is expensive, but its not a volume seller anyway.

They WILL learn when the sales targets are way off, all the above i mentioned have been price-slashed, does wonders to resale…not!Poor punters who took the plunge and purchased when first released.

Yes, customer-service is non-existant and have not had any warranty issue thank God.Had 2 X Trails, wont buy a 3rd, not because they are bad, they are very good actually, just its time for a change and the SUV fashion for us is dead.

I was thinking a CX7 which i dont even consider a SUV, but it drinks far to much and its overpriced and needs PULP

I think she wants a Corolla, how long before the Corolla has:

5-speed auto?
elec. windows in the rear?
TCS/ESP fitted?

Feeling is BigT do just-enough as required, NOT good enough!

Cheers

F-0
Reckless1

“I think she wants a Corolla, how long before the Corolla has:

5-speed auto?
elec. windows in the rear?
TCS/ESP fitted?”

Hahaha, hehehe, hohoho, oh boy, …. That should be posted in Friday Funnies

Sorry, FO, but that cracked me up……
aw

Nice Car. Had a rental one about 6 months ago. Better than a Falcon or Commodore. I can live with the resale, I lease my cars so it isn’t as big a problem. It probably has a better resale than a Falcon or Commodore (not that it’s much of achievement)
Frugal One

RECKLESS1 -

Gets better, *she* wants a Toyota [Corolla is good size for her] BECAUSE LOCAL DEALER OFFERS lifetime *free* carwashes, as many as you want for zero dollars.Go to carwash 20 times in a day if u want, costs zip!

Cheers

F-0
aw

Value for money is also absolutely superb. I know they reduced the price, but now is a better time to buy one.
Realcars

Resale, resale Resale.Get real, nothing has good resale if bought new. Look at Commodore, Falcon, Aurion/Camry resale are all shit when traded. Compare prices for five to eight year old Maximas and they fetch double the equivalent Falcon and 1.5 times a v6 Camry of the same vintage because these Maximas are bullet proof mechanically and it shows over time.
Spitfire

The dashboard looks like a 1980′s Skyline.
Ethan Aras

if the maxima is a front wheel drive, why is there a transmission tunnel hump? check out the interior photo, where you can see a massive transmission tunnel hump… is this available as a rear wheel drive elsewhere???
rocket_v6

please sell the altima here
Ian

Maxima is one of the better Nissans in terms of performance and looks. And it’s great value.

An all new Maxima debuts at the New York Motor Show next month. I’m surprised at the speculation about Maxima being ditched for Skyline. If Skyline does come here, it would make more sense to me adding it to Nissan’s range, Maxima continuing to compete with Falcon / Commodore and the premium Skyline plugging the large void between Maxima and the upcoming GTR? I agree with Les – I don’t think Maxima is dead, at least not yet.
Lee

Nissan Australia should just bring the Skyline/Infiniti 35/37 over.
Frugal One

LEE -

Infiniti,

Met a guy yesterday who purchased a brand new Q45 Infiniti when they sold them here.

Paid $182,500 WOW its worth $10k now, thats gota hurt.Not trading, he will just keep it forever….

They should reestablish Infinti here, they could sell, lexus does ok!

Cheers

F-0
Gary

Traded my 05 Calais for 07 Maxima TI.
The Maxima is miles ahead in driveability and liveability.
The Maxima is a very unnasumming and underated car.
Frugal One

The Maxima has got *stale* if you ask me.

Its engine and quality etc are first class, but alas FWD and a poor ride/handling ratio has spoiled it till a new model is released latter this year.

Godd vlaue but not fantastic value, that would be the Thai built accord by haonda.

Cheers

F-0
Realcars

euro?

Hondas are ok if u can afford to turn them over every few years. Not really built for our roads.
Reality Czech

I have driven all of the family 6′s on the market, and the Maxima Ti is my choice. Not everyone wants or needs a car that can hit the twisties on the weekend and stick it to the bikes. Personally, I have mildly modded Golf GTI as a daily driver and a seriously modded RX7 for the weekends, but I have reached a point in life where having two performance cars is a dumb idea. I am after a luxury soft car that I can cruise into the city with my wife and not have my teeth fall out on the rough roads. FWD, who cares! Line up the Maxima in a straight line with the RWD 6′s and see which is better in the real world. There is no difference, with Maxima and Aurion being the quickest of the bunch. But being serious, these types of cars are not bought because the handle or go well. Maximas are bought because they are cheap for what you get, very quiet, comfortable, reliable, relatively economical for their size and are not as common as every other taxi on the road. I drove the VE Commodore, BF Falcons, Aurions, 380′s, Accord Euro, and even a Volvo C30 (nice BTW). The end choice for me was the Maxima. It felt a good $20k more expensive than it is to drive, and looked more upmarket than any $30k car has a right to. The CVT was smooth as silk with even my wife on the road test commenting on how she cant feel the gears (haha). It had a brilliant effortless low rpm torque off the lights without appearing that I was trying to race everyone. The CVT had the motor ticking along at 1200rpm virtually all the time, so I can see the motors lasting forever (not sure about the box though). I had the car overnight from a very nice dealer, and with a combo of freeway and alot of city driving it still showed 9.7L/100km for fuel use. Not bad in my books for this size car. For the bogans here, if you want power go buy a good turbo or V8 car… and suffer the fuel bills. If you want the harder suspension and better handling look elsewhere. But if you want a brilliant day to day car that costs little to buy and costs just as little to run, the Maxima is hard to go past. I just wish it had MP3 and a factory satnav instead of the big orange 80′s nightrider display. Colour LCDs are pocket change these days Nissan!
Gary

Agree with you Reality Czech
Everyone wants a car of the masses (XR6,Holden etc) but have they even driven a Maxima.
The day I need to worry about losing it because of the soft suspension I will be more concerned about the loss of license for exceeding the speed limit by LOTS
Reality Czech

I forgot to mention the Hyundai Grandeur that I also drove. Actually it wasnt that bad, but felt cheap and nasty like a kinda surprise type of build quality.

Something else with the big 6′s is that I cant get over how almost every comparison between them turns into which handles and goes the best. I would tend to believe that anyone who buys an XR6, SV6, or even a Sportivo as a performance car in the first place is fooling themselves. Now I am no old fuddy, in fact I drive high performance cars all day as a living (not going to say what I do, but there are other dedicated higher performance cars in the ranges of these cars. What I would tend to think most people are looking for in these cars is instead : space for the family, economy but with some torque, reliability with a good warantee, and the highest quality of build they can get. All of these cars have terrible resale because of the sheer number of them for sale. If you drive all of them and start ticking the appropriate boxes you start to see the Maxima edge ahead. I just tend to think that when it released a few years ago having a FWD 6 cylinder was a big no-no. Now it is more common with Toyota joining Nissan and Honda in the field but it also has made alot of people forget about the Maxima. Shame that.

And Gary you are right. My first drive of a Maxima gave me the impression of not wanting to drive fast. It calmed me down and made me want to drive on the speed limit, not over it. Part of the side effect of having soft comfy leather seats and suspension that glides over everything. Kind of a Lexus type of feeling as opposed to the XR6/SV6 feeling of, “I wanted a V8 supercar but this is all I can afford”.
TP

It would be between Maxima and Aurion for me… but the Maxima’s current design is abit dated, on these grounds Id get an Aurion. But apart from that, both vehicles offer true value for money… Maxima has alittle less power, but its a great engine. On powerful engines, the locals are now second and outright last, wit the Aurion and V6 Accord now the leaders… yet both with the least displacement to work with (theyll also, despite the power/dispalcement ratio, be the most reliable)
http://www.importjap.com ImportJap

It is tired, design is pretty much unchanged since 2003. The US version is better in all respects.

Truth be told, it would fare better in the market as RWD. It is a nice drive though.
FORD is No.1

This car is so boring , Nissan have dropped the ball when it comes to customer satisfaction ZZZZZZZZZZ Wake me up when Nissan can give us a spark, sorry but the GT-R is not enough for me Yawn!!!! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…
Reality Czech

Remember the last time Ford was up against the GTR in racing circles…. Bathurst . Next time I see a Ford production car that can run 11′s down the 1/4mile, and lap the “ring” faster than almost anything, and still pass all current safety and emissions standards, maybe then I will listen to more 15 year olds.

Anyway a bit off the point. The Maxima is meant to be a quiet, smooth, and refined car. Not an exciting car or a sports car.
franz chong

This has something going for it over BMW AND MERCEDES in this end of the market.Unlike a 3 Series or a C Class You have V6 Power and Japanese Quality
Value For Money

My latest set of wheels is a new 06 Maxima Ti, just when Nissan changed over to the CVT. This week is has just ticked over 100K and I cannot be more happy with the vehicle.

It has everything I wanted, leather trim, sunroof, superb engine with the bonus of good fuel economy, heaps of room, magnificent built quality and it has never missed a beat. It is one of the first cars that I have had where I have not had to make a claim for any warranty issues!!!! More than I can say for the EF Fairmont wagon I finally got rid of (had it since new as well). That car was on the verge of self destruction. Appalling quality, gas guzzler, unreliable, wore out tyres every 40K, obscene price for spare parts.

If this is the standard of Nissan vehicles, you can keep your Holdens and Fords, I will be back again in another Nissan product.
Brian

I live in Melbourne and imported a V35 Skyline (Infiniti G35) 3 years ago from Japan. My wife also has a 350Z and I can assure you that the Infiniti is in NO way more superior than the 350Z. I dont think that Infiniti would have a chance in Australia when compared to Nissan. Unlike Lexus and Toyota where you can see a distinct difference between the brands. If you go to the States and walk into an Infiniti dealer it looks just like a Nissan dealer just with different colors and logos. We just sold the 350Z yesturday and once again resale value killed it and also its hard to sell a 2 seat car. Now we are looking for a new Maxima it seems to be the best value car around at the moment in its segment.
Kevin

Today we went out and look at a number of cars including Mazda CX7 $51k, CX9 $61k Holden Commodore Calais V6 $60K,SS-V V8 $56k, Subaru Tribeca $65k and we had not considered a Nissan however as we were passing a showroom we dropped in just for a look, anyway we saw the Maxima Ti and took it for a test drive and I was pleasantly suprised and considering the value for money $42k drive away, price also included tow bar, window tinting, extended 6year warranty, DVD players and 7in LCD screens recessed in the rear headrests. What can I say except when compared to the other vehicles and specifications we were looking for we are pleased with our purchase and a saving of upto $25k.
It was interesting that the majority of Maxima owners are very happy with their purchase and the negative comments are from people who have not driven one and are basing their opinions on hearsay or road tests.
Miaad

Hi guys,

Im looking into buying a second hand 2004 Maxima Ti, had a look at a few between 15k to 19k. Most of them seem to be in good condition. I like the maxima, it’s a nice, luxary car and a pleasure to drive, however, i am worried abt the resale value. My other options are 2007 Civic VTi and 2004 Subaru Liberty although they are in total different categories. any ideas on what i should do?
thanks.
Marky

Hi guys..

I have a 04 maxima Ti. I’ve had the car for just over 2 years. no regrets whatsoever. Besides the battery dying, everything is great. I found it so effortless on the highway. Accidently doing 165km. You need to check your speed regularly because you cannot feel the road underneath you. I cant wait for new models to come out. How about a VQ37 eng 3.7L with RWD. I think this will attract more buyers. But for anybody thinking of buying one, I highly recommend the maxima. Great performance with good fuel economy. The best value for money luxury car you will drive. Great engine & quality build.
http://www.caradvice.com.au filo180

Hello everyone,

I am looking at a TI also, not for myself, but for my mum. We have just added the TI to the short list that already contains the newer Camry’s and Altises,newer X-Trails and an 07′ Sonata.

The TI that we have seen in the yard has 150,000kms on the clock and has a tag of $13,990 with a quiete extensive 5 year warranty.(Originally a Hire Car then privately owned)

I would love some more feedback on vehicles with more kms. I am very impressed with the car. I currently own a modified 180sx built for the twisties and tempted to get something very similar myself! for a change of scenary. If all goes well, i will be taking it to a Nissan specialist we know to give it a good look over.

I am a big fan of Nissan engines and my mums current 86 RB30 is the only vehicle that she has had without engine issues. My Sr20det with 150,000kms and standard internals, twice the factory boost and tuned aftermarket ECU etc. has not skipped a beat.

Mark
Graham Stuart

My Nissan Maxima is just one year old and I have to say that it is the most underrated car on the Australian market. Its build-quality is nothing short of superb. Its CVT is wonderful and clearly significant to the 9.2L/100kms fuel consumption over the entire year. Not to mention the CVT’s contribution to stunning acceleration. And the beautifully appointed Maxima had an RRP of just under $4000 less than the cheapest Commodore (Omega).
Not a solitary warranty claim. Absolutely nothing to complain about.

Nissan has produced a remarkably neutral-handling FWD car. You’d have to do something stupid to get into understeer discomfort. Those who bitch about FWD have to think outside the squares and learn FWD technique. In the last 40 years, most Monte-Carlo Rallies have been won by FWD cars.

Car however is not without some really dumb Nissan Japan design/specification flaws.

Ergonomics:

Lack of adjustable lumbar support for the front seats.
No axial adjustment of the steering-wheel.
Reflective aluminium chequerplate on the dashboard often totally blocks out the driver’s door mirror visibility.

Frustrations:

a) I curse Nissan every day – when I get out of the car only to realise I want something from the back seat and find the other three doors locked. The automatic door locking is ridiculous and makes no sense.

b) I curse again the lack of a “time delay” factor by which the electric windows can be closed AFTER I have turned off the ignition and half stepped out of the car to realise a window is not fully closed.

Practicalities:

a) Rear vision when reversing is very poor due to C-Pillar design, rear seat headrests and invisible boot lid.. The reversing sensors should be standard on both models. Not just on the sun-roof model.

b) The Dunlop Sport tyres are known noisy tyres and contribute negatively to destroy the otherwise quiet ambience of the vehicle. A bad choice Mr. Nissan.

c) Reflections of the bright aluminium chequerplate on the dashboard often totally block out any images in the driver’s side exterior door-mirror. (A sunny day manifestation).

d) Zero stowage facilities for any accoutrements of rear seat passengers.
(The pockets in the backs of the front seats are totally useless since they open but 2cms.
Good for only for stowing a few sheets of A4 photocopy paper !

________

I can accommodate all of the above shortfalls as a trade-off for the abounding benefits of the car in general … EXCEPT for the lack a lumbar seat adjustment and lack of steering-wheel axial adjustment. I would not buy another Maxima unless these two items were addressed. But after a year with the Maxima I have developed nothing but contempt for Commodores and Falcons which by comparision are just “chucked together”.

One of the world’s great car-makers did not “spoil the ship for a 10 cents of tar”.
It spoiled the ship because seemingly it has blind spots on all these issues on every model which it produces for the Australian market. Last month I had some business in Tasmania and hired a Nissan Tiida. Driving such was totally familiar in that it had all the same design specification shortfalls …. without exception.

Graham
michael

i bought maxima brand new december 2003 have flogged the guts out of it most underated car you can buy flogs commys fords it has autobahn speeds if your game this car rocks will buy latest model but theres nothing wrong with one i have this car drives like new 150k never uses a drop of oil these motors are fantastic any problem ive had has been fixed by nissan even after warranty expired for free they replaced door locks twice free new alternator free smoothest car to drive so quiet so fast was doing 220ks in third the other day then clicked into 4th the person beside me inside was stunned he said how long has this been going on i just laughed he now owns a nissan