Robert McEniry talks about Mitsubishi’s future

http://www.caradvice.com.au Anthony

Rob McEniry, is a passionate car guy and a passionate Australian and this would have been a hard decision he has had to deliver on behalf of his Japanese board.

Anthonii

Good thing for the workers there is a skills shortage…

Elitist

Im glad Mitsubishi is smart to realise Large car sedans are dying..
Ford and Holden on the other hand……

Frugal One

Elitist, you are correct, the large car segmant has fallen again, WORST Jan. on record!

Corolla overtook Comm. as #1 seller

Falcon worst month in history

The Falcon is doomed, its 100% the wrong car END OF STORY.

The question is WHEN will Ford Oz its press day to announce its closing down MANUFACTURE and just be a importer..?

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

I’m just wondering…Frugal One…

Do you realise that Ford AUS recently opened an engineering centre in AUS???

Ford has as much risk as Toyota does in closing up shop here.

Elitist…

So no mention of the fact that Toyota has the aurion, only Ford and Holden ‘don’t get’ the notion that the big car segment has lost volume, why is that so?

Ford is not going anywhere, niether is Holden.
They both have engineering bases that don’t rely on falcon and commodore to survive, i suggest some of start ‘reading’
Or go find some other site to troll as you constantly prove you know nothing of the auto world.

Watto_Cobra

You’re just a doomsayer o mighty frugal one.

Elitist, don’t FordOZ have “some” realisation in wanting to build the Focus here?

Adam (aka Mada)

Watto_Cobra…

Exactly. Drama queens is all…

Toyota was last to the large car party with the aurion right when the segment is declining! who’s the silly one?

Territory and focus being assebled locally is proof Ford is thinking ahead.

I don’t see Toyota or Holden getting any richer than Ford with exports…

Fred

The trend today, I think, is cars people need than want. If we don’t pay for fuel, then we won’t necessiate ourselves with economy cars. We’d want fast, great handling and fun vehicles if petrol speaks for itself. Sports cars are the best tools out there, but their impracticality is what made a lot of buyers go for more versatile modes of transport. For a time 4x4s are the fad as they can go practically anywhere, are spacious for passengers and their luggage – generally all-purpose. But these tend to guzzle gas, and a lot decided they’re not climbing mountains anyway. Now that Corollas have grown to have adequate space plus efficiency, this is what satisfies today’s motoring necessities.

Frugal One

ADAM -

The figures dont lie, the large car segmant keeps falling and falling…..

Good that Ford have employed more Aussies, for sure they have a bright future here, just car building in NOT one of them!

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

The prblem is that the large car segment is not declining due only to high fuel prices, more so the changing buyer patterns.

Drive an x-trail, territory, prado, rav-4 (particuarly the V)kluger, mazda 6, accord (which use premium fuel only so therefore cost as much to run as the 6cyl cars) even some of the hilux type vehicles etc all use considerable amounts fuel themselves or the costs to run don’t drop all that much from the traditional 6cyl local sedans.

If fule was the only factor vehicles like territory, prado, kluger, landcruiser wouldn’t last long at all.
But the biggest change is if you look at the 20 top selling vehicles the margin between each is closing.
The days where falcon and commodore commanding 5-8,000 units each per month is no longer, the sales levels with each vehicle is fragmenting.
the total sales volume in AUS is increasing while the pie is being broken up even more.

Frugal One

The market leader, Big-’s Corolla is infact a large car for passengers.

Most dont need any larger [SALES FIGURES SUPPORT THAT]

If u want to tow 2500kg+ you buy a landcruiser or patrol

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

Frugal One…

What are you on about?
i didn’t say the large car segment was declining, i said toyota entered a declining segment, as Elitist made the comment Ford and Holden don’t get that message, which it would appear toyota is slower in getting that same message.

Ford has an engineering base here and will be building vehicle here well into the next decade so i think you need to get your hand of your tool and stop being a drama queen after one months worth of sales figures, remember 12 months in a calender year??
New falcon in 2 months will sell better than the 6 year old BF falcon…
You have the facts in front of you and you choose to interperate them the way you see fit, that does not make it truth.
Next…

Adam (aka Mada)

Can you read? Please tell me one year in the last 40 years where the corolla was the top selling vehicle!?
Wake up!
your crowing about ONE MONTHS sales figures you twit! that your support????
commodore will be back on top when 2008 closes, falcon will be number 2 also. I’ll bet you fi you wish?

how do you explain the hiluxs sales position, based on your logic it shouldn’t be selling so well…

Peter

They will do quite well when the other variants of the Lancer are released. The fact that they will have a range of Lancers to fit all tastes will negate the loss of large car in their lineup. They are currently lineball with Civic in terms of sales, which is also sedan only.

Toyota have succeeded with the Aurion/Camry strategy because they have the reputation, plus the styling isn’t too bland, nor inoffensive (ugly).

Frugal One

MadAdam

Corolla will finish either first or second o/a in 08′

It was 2nd last year, not far behind the Comm.

The Falcon is FINSHED, it would need a miracle to be a popular seller, IN FACT dealers are already comfortable that its glory days are over as a volume seller.

Oh, and the large car segement IS shrinking, and Toyota would be happy with the Aurion sales, it overtook the Falcon’s volume, not bad no wagon, no luxo models, no V8′s a brilliant result really.

Is HiLux a Ford?Is HiLux in the large-car-segmwent, thought NOT!

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

Toyotas volume for camry/aurion isn’t where they would like it to be.
Camry volume has actually dropped since the realse of aurion, not surprising when a 4cyl camry consumes similar volume of fule compared to a 3.5 V6 aurion…
Ve and BF11 are ugly or bland either.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, frugal one has made some valid points and i don’t think he is that far from the truth. Unless Ford Australia can secure themselves a worthwhile export market, they will be in alot more trouble then Holden and Toyota. Apart from that, Toyota Australia has been able to return profit on most years unlike Ford in recent times.

Toyota entered the large car market in a most clever way by modify an already established platform (Camry) therefore containing investment costs while ensuring an efficent process of being able to manufactuer the two cars in a streamlined fashion.

Adding a strong car like the Aurion to the equation increases much unwanted pressure on Holden and Ford in any ready strained market which would be exactly what Toyota is trying to achieve so they are not that silly after all, just very cunny at the way they go about business.

Adam (aka Mada)

Dumb One…

with a new falcon, corolla has far less chance of snatching the number one position from the VE, i take it you want to bet?

Ford the last time, i’m not disagreeing the large car segment IS declining. I countered a comment made by elitist that toyota has entered a declining vehicle segment way too late!! got that yet. Ford and Holden have been dominate in this segment for the past 40 years! um hello.

The newer Aurion over took a the 6 year old falcon for the first time last month!! WAKE UP!
11 more months to go in 2008…you don’t draw conlcusions based on ONE MONTH, hence why you have no idea.

The hilux comment was in releation to you’re irelevant comment made about ‘if you want too tow more than 2500klg you buy a landcruiser’
So why is the hilux selling so well if people want corolla sized vehicles which can do the job of carrying passenger so effectively, that was your comment.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, if you read the released statistics you would note that the sales of the Camry and Aurion have infact increased not decreased. And don’t get ahead of yourself over the Camry/Aurion arguement because sense each is manufactured alongside one another it is not an issue for Toyota Australia eitherway. Infact, they are probably hoping for more local sales of the Aurion then the Camry.

However, sense Ford has just lumped a sizeable imported Mondeo into the stream, Ford Australia needs to manage themselves in a most careful manner that the Mondeo doesn’t eat into the already deminshed sales of the Falcon because that would only path way for even greater pressure on thier local ops unlike the setup with the Camry/Aurion duo.

Adam (aka Mada)

Bilstein…

I don’t disagree with some of your points, but…

I’m sick too death of the dramatics of Ford and Holden colasping! You know how long i have heard this same story? for the past 15 years!! Any manufacturer could close up shop at any bloody time, we all know this but i hear no definitive times frames from anybody on this blog who constantly says it’s goign to happen, then if it does happen in 2, 5, 10 or even 10 years from now the same doomsayers will pipe up and claim they were right! give me a break.

As for profit…let look at this shall we…
look back at the past 5 years and average out the profit for Ford, Holden and toyota…even look back 10 years if you wish.
you will discover Ford and Holden have been far more profitable than tan toyota with less volume sales…what a shock.
Now take Ford AUS and it’s lack of exports, toyota is NOT profitable without exporting half it’s locally assembled volume, while Ford has been.
ford and holden has an engineering base they rely on, not just local sales and assembly.
Now you answer this for me. Why would Ford spend money on a new falcon, updated territory, focus assembly come 2011 and money on a new engineering base if they were going too shut up shot anytime soon!? makes no business sense too me, does it too you??

Toyota has been trying to enter the current large car market since 1992! with the ide bodied camry and then avalon and they were failures in the large car segment.
It has oonly been since the release of the FWD aurion that toyota has had some sort of noticable impact!!
How long has falcon and commodore been dominant again??
Eeven the Toyota CEO has admitted they underestimated the large car competition.
toyoat isn’t making the impact they are now due to smart marketing etc, the market is changing overall and Toyota doens’t take credit for that, look at how the magna and 380 fell from grace too!

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, actually – with the release of the new Falcon, Toyota could just aswell have improved odds of overtaking the VE if the new Ford can deminish the sales of the Commodore even further. Apart from that, Corolla sales (as with the diesel version of the Hilux from Thailand) were partially resticted in Australia last year due to global demand of the product while Japan adjusted thier ops to allow more examples to be imported to Australia in 2008.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, please accept that lads like myself are everybit annoyed at comments passed that Toyota will fold.

I do agree however that Toyota did under-estimate the large car market in Oz but fortunately for them today, they have introduced a somewhat convincing product by all means. Even with that said, Toyota has always acknowledged that the Aurion will not outsell the Commodore or Falcon but if they can inflict an impact of any kind then they would have achieved their intentions.

I also acknowledge that Toyota profit is not as strong as should be (on the surface) but lets not be to judgemental on the issue because neither of us have any understanding of the financial structuring of the local operations and how it inter-twains (if that is correct i’m not sure, welcome correction) with TMC’s global operations.

However, considering the amount of investments in the past couple of years with the 90 million modernisation of Altona, commissioning of a local R&D and styling department, introduction of the Aurion and now a local TRD outpost – they must be satisfying the HODS at TMC HQ somewhat to have even convinced them to release such fundings.

Adam (aka Mada)

No questions answered…typical.

So when will Ford close up shop again, i’m waitin for an accurate answer as opposed to media type rubbish.

If falcons increases sales, corolla will fall back, have a look at the history of sales.
We are talking about top selling vehicle here not market leadership remember.

Mondeo will not eat falcon! they sold 360 mondoes last month, where has that affected falcon sales?

You’re also forgetting Fords volume includes territory, not just falcon.

So i ask once again, why would Ford, a business that survives with profits spend so much money on orion falcon, updated territory and local focus assembly and engineering base in melbourne!!??? if it was going to chut up shop anytime soon???

Answer this and i’ll admit i was wrong.

Adam (aka Mada)

So many can be neagtive and say Ford will close up, but no one can answer why Ford has spent so much? or when Ford will shut down?

The evidence if there, it’s down to interpretation. i look forward to end of 2008 when falcon sales have doubled Jan 08 figure and when many of you will be saying the same thing while Falcon sales contine as they have done for the past 40 years and Ford still remains a local manufacturer.

Frugal One

The question is what figure does Ford have to do, in annual Falcon sales to make it work?

The have even admitted that Orion is just a reskin and nothing really new.

Will it last till 2010 when the new V6 powertrain is imported?

So history will show the best car ever engineered in Oz will be the VE Commodore.

I CAN help them, sell it at LESS than $25k driveaway, longer warranty, free service, diesel engine.

But alas, let them do it there way, as Mitsu did

Cheers

F-0

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, the Falcon competes against the Commodore and Aurion (and to a lesser extent the Camry, Mondeo etc) and certainly not the Corolla so your reply makes no sense to me – sorry !

For all the reason i just posted above about recent investments in Australia by Toyota, i can pass the same question about why would Toyota shut up shop in the fore seeable future.

However, lets have a look at recent events. While Toyota has actually increased thier presance in local ops, Ford has gone the otherway. Have you already forgotten that Ford Australia has retrenched workers (as with Holden), ceased production of the long standing Fairlane and soon it’s L6 process in favour of an imported engine from the states. Also, not only have Ford sales dramatically dwindled over the years but so has that of the Falcon.

And if Ford continues to sell the Mondeo in such low numbers then it will eventually follow suit with the new edition as it did with the last.

Adam (aka Mada)

You just don’t improve your knowledge do you??????

Ford has NEVER said the orion is juts a re-skin, please by all means provide a link to prove your bullsh*t comment…

1. territory is part of broadmeadows factory output, why do you thin focus is being built from 2011??? to help with volume perhaps!?
2.Orion has a new front suspension, updated rear suspension which was brand new in 2002, heavily updated inline 6cul engine which is already amongst class leaders in the 6cyl segment for NVH, fuel economy and power.
New body and interior and whats your bet orion will crash better than VE and camry/aurion??
3.Commodore, camry/aurion, 3802 have all been re-skins or heavily updated hardware also!!! so nice try at spinning more sh*t!
All manufacturers re-use or update major hardware. toyota AUS even admitted that they had to completely carry over the 2002-2006 camry form the 1997-2002 camry as they couldn’t afford to update new hardware to to the volume levels expected.
Now you want to use that argument again?
3. Hmmm lets see Ford spends about 600-700million on orion and you’re asking if orion will last till 2010 when the new V6 arrives!? what do you think idiot??
why would you even ask that question?? oh thats right to invent drama and just something too psot perhaps or just to bash Ford for no good reason??
Ask a relevant question for once or better still why don’t you asnwer mine which relate to you bringing up points thathave no relevance…
4. What does VE have to do with this!? another stupid comment to insight an argument as you have been called on your childish comments, nice try…
6. Did you know that Ford intends on placing a diesel engine in the territory come late 2009 when they update the territory?? that would mean falcon is a good possibilty don’t you think?? since they share the same engine box and current drivetrain.
Appears ford is well ahead of you in that regard! wanna try again?? I’d ahet to see you be the CEO of Ford, you would spend all this money then shut up shop!!
Sure you were in charge at Mitsubishi!!??

Waht next, i can hardly wait…

Adam (aka Mada)

Bilstein…

you have got to be joking…you don’t asnwer my questions but ask me more, who has more infor then?

I never once stated Toyota would shut up shot, ok?
I’m asking those boneheads who say Ford will close to justify there reasons based on fact not fan boi misconceptions! no reasonable argument has been thrown around yet…

Yes lets look at recent events…
Toyota exports more than they sell locally, even toyota doesn’t like that.
toyota does not sell any more locally assembled vehicles than Ford, so not sure what you mean there.
thier top selling vehicle is IMPORTED, not assembled locally, Ford and Holden do…

Are you forgetting that territory makes up some lost falcon volume?? that focus will make up more lost volume, i wonder why focus will be assembled here!?
Ford isn’t the only one who has lost sales. ALL local assmblers have lost local sales, imported vehicle sales have risen…Toyota included!

Ford only said they intend to seel around 500 mondoes a month, so no, your not correct there, jee! get your facts right before posting…

Bret

Bilstein,
Lets not kid ourselves, the Aurion is not really a different car to the Camry. All it is is a US V6 Camry with an Aus STYLED front end. Bugger all DESIGN there. And a huge letdown for all of the aus Toyota buyers who want a large car.
Ford will build the Focus here and export to most of markets currently served by the South africa plant, which is being turned over to production of a different vehicle.

Lets not let the facts get in the way: Toyota is the only local manufacturer threatening to shut up shop if the Tarrifs are reduced!! That said, I don’t believe that any will anytime soon.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, 350 odd sales in not 500 although that is not suggesting Ford won’t sell that amount in the future.

And while you are talking about getting facts right, Toyota has never suggested any negativity towards exporting more Camry’s then selling locally considering Toyota Australia has been trying to increase thier export potential.

And what has the fact that some imported Toyota vehicles selling more then locally produced examples got to do with anything. I fail to understand what you are trying to get at.

At the end of the day, a company can spend as much money as they want on a product but it doesn’t guarantee it will be the hit they envisage. Have a look at the so called billion dollar baby for example. In times like today, companies need to savy and invest according to market potential otherwise they’ll end up in unfavourable circumstances as so many are today. Observe how Toyota went about with the Aurion in an effort to minimise the impact if the programme failed for what ever reason

And stop with speculating that the the Orion will achieve great results when you have no firm understanding otherwise. A great example was how Holden played up the new VE so much yet in reality in has failed to achieve the results more often then has.

Holden said it would the class leader in safety yet was pipped by the Aurion not to mention statements about quality improvement, efficency and so on.

http://aca Bilstein

Bret, nobody has ever said that the Aurion is a hugely different car then the Camry. They are your words not ours. And a let down according to who, you once again. Speak for yourself on the subject and not others.

Going by the relative success of the Aurion and amount of awards it has received in a short period, it is obvious your statement exhibited little thought.

Toyota may have been verbal but lets not forget they have the most effective means of containing costs and nodoubt the message come across Altona management and associated suppliers loud and clear. I also recall that Ford threatened that if the sales of the Falcon do not improve it will end it’s racing days in the Supercar Championships.

Lets just observe the facts here, while Toyota has increased it’s presance in local operations, Ford has declined.

Adam (aka Mada)

The mondeo has just been re-introduced, it had supply issues from moment of launch so it’s doing well for a low volume product. Toyota executive has commenetd that they would like to have more local sales rather than being heavily reliant on exports…ok? Your turn to prove me wrong for a change.

The relevance of a locally produced top selling vehicle is just as relevant as your comment that Toyota has become more prominant than Ford for local sales, which it hasn’t.
i fail see what you were getting at originally??

Now Toyota is smart as they re-hased a camry body to make a so called LARGE competitior!? give me a break, Toyota can’t no worn gwith you!

So i can’t speculate about how well orion will, while you boneheads can speculate about how Ford will close down!?
Yet i have years of sales figures to back my speculation on how well orion will do! any logical sence left in here!?
FRUGAL ONE can proclaim that falcon has fallen behind aurion and it’s doomed based on ONE MONTHS worth of sales figures, also forgetting aurion is a far newer vehicle than the 6 year old falcon, only commom sense would indicate that orion will outsell aurion easily if the 6 year old BF falcon has done, bar ONE MONTH??
Yeah i can see how my speculation is far fetched compared to FRUDAL ONEs and your own….

VE has to do with Ford how?? here we go again….VE is top selling, Toyota has not been able to beat it.
VE recieved the same 4 star rating as aurion.
Corolla has no ESP, who rolled a kluger duing COTY testing?
Lets not go into passive, active safety features, Toyota is far from perfect in this regard.
Also remind you that no camry has been miles ahead of falcon and commodore for active crash safety…

next…
FRUGAL ONE i’m still waiting for your answers!?

Adam (aka Mada)

Bilstein…

You telling Bret to stop talking for other people while you and FRUGAL ONE are allowed to claim Ford will colaspe with no solid backing for your arguments!?

You a broken record?

Please explain to me what local toyota presance has increased and what of Fords has declined??

Watto_Cobra

Bilstein, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

The reason the I6 (last truly aussie designed, engineered, and built engine) is being replaced in favour of the Duratech V6 is cost/volume.

FordOZ has been forced to go to a “global” engine, same as everyone else. They were the last holdout. Holden ditched the Aussie six back in the VL days.

There would be plenty of life left in the I6, but for the “relatively” small volume versus the money required to keep improving it to meet ever more stringent emmissions standards. As it stands it is cleaner and more efficient than the Alloytec V6 found in VE.

It has usually been the smoothest and had the most torque in its class. If you aren’t planting your foot everywhere it can be very economical too. I have gotten under 8L/100kms for a 40/60 mix of city/freeway driving.

Where is Toyotas V6 designed/engineered? I don’t know, but I’m assuming Japan. Holdens V6 is designed/engineered in North America. These are global engines with a HUGE customer base that offsets the captial needed for continuous improvements. The only place the FordOZ I6 is used is Falcon and Territory. I’m proud of what they’ve acheived over the years considering the playing field is very heavily swung in the global engines favour.

I will mourn the day the last I6 is made. I plan to buy an Orion F6 Typhoon, and I don’t make that decision lightly, because I’m on an average wage, not some huge salary. I want one of the last truly great Australian engines, in my Australian car.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, you are the one who is passing the comment so prove to me were you recieved your knowledge.

Lets break down the safety rating more. VE 27/37 compared to the Aurions 30/37.

Admittedly Toyota made a mistake with no ESP on the Corolla but that issue will be resolved in August. Regardless, it has been able to achieve a full 5 star rating.

Only Wheels would ever roll a Toyota. Sad days indeed when the magazine has to stoop so low in an effort to discredit the company. On the otherhand, great reply by Toyota indicating that Wheels recollection of the incident varied considerbly then the information downloaded from the ECU. Does that come as a surprise ?? Don’t tell part of the story, tell it all.

Also, noticed Wheels failed to follow Toyota’s direction and supply results.

I will remind you that no Falocn or Commodore has been miles ahead of the Camry for active crash safety.

http://aca Bilstein

Watto, i understand exactly what you have put forward without challenge but lets get something straight here, if people want to persist on critising Toyota and in this case thier local operations then prepare yourself for a few harsh reminders inreturn so don’t go around trying to push that Ford or Holden hold more value in this nation then our other local manufactuers because they don’t.

I to am pleased with Toyota’s achievements in Australia especially when they have fought many long battles against the more entrenched likes of Holden and Ford.

At the end of the day, other local manufactuers deserve every bit the recognition then the companies you know who i am referring to. It’s about time people like yourself started accepting the achievements of others in this nation and not just that of Holden and Ford all the time.

Adam (aka Mada)

So you continue to glaze over the points i’ve raised for the last 2 hours? The points which started this whole debate to begine with.

i didn’t pass the comment you originally did! you said Fords presence locally has declined under Toyota…
So explain that to me?

So aurion has 3 points ahead of VE, thats a significant margin, NOT. 4 star car just like the VE…

So now Wheels is pulling stunts to discredit Toyota!? ok…

I totally agree, falcon or commodore have not outdone camry, why not!? Toyota is the most cash rich auto company these days…
Why can’t toyota make a convincing class leader? Afterall there is only a falcon and commodore to beat, should be asy now…even a 380 outhandles a camry/aurion…it would appeat toyota is a great company making some average cars vers it’s true abilities perhaps??

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, Toyota have made many convincing class leaders especialy with light to medium vehicles, hybrids, commercials and 4×4′s and if not leaders then certainly amoung the best in each and every field they compete within with far greater consistancy across thier entire and somewhat spance range of vehicles then what Ford and Holden have ever been able to achieve.

Having wealth does not necessary mean Toyota wishes to spend it all in one era. Any smart company as they are would invest in to the future and no-doubt that’s exactly were alot of thier current profits are being banked towards. Ever heard of the saying ‘make hay while the sun shines’

Having said that, it is obvious that Toyota is investing the amount they consider adequate to remain competitive in todays market without going overboard while ensuring the viability of thier operations for the extended future especially considering trying times will no-doubt come thier way some at some point along the time line.

I’m sure the continued establishment of Lexus, re-entering various forms of motorsport, rapid growth/expansion and comprehensive fleet renewal and improvemnts have come at a cost aswell. Just have a look at how Toyota Australia’s fleet has evolved into today compared to that only a few years ago.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, that is 3 points above Holden brainwashing the public that the VE would be the class leader in safety. Doesn’t matter if it is 1 point or 100, it is still greater then what Holden claimed.

Watto_Cobra

Bilstein, I only wanted to give more of the story of “why” the I6 will be discontinued, in favour of a global engine. And again, I think it is a terrible shame.

With the kind of money Toyota has, I’d bet FordOZ would continue with it. I mean, why not? V6′s just don’t have the same usable torque unless you throw a hairdryer at it.

I didn’t bag out Toyota’s Australian operations. It sounds like if the all-seeing Frugal One had his/her way, there would be no local manufacturing, period.

Adam (aka Mada)

I never heard Holden claiming the VE was going to be the safest vehicle in it’s class?

I’m still waiting for some solid relevant information to prove Ford will shut up shop in the next 3 years?? remember the points that started this debate?

Oh by the way i drive all these cars on a daily basis, do you??

I know for REAL what the interior aulity is like in a camry/aurion, falcon, Ve and 380 and i’ll you this, the camry/aurion has some of the worst switchgear amonsgt the local offerings…
if you don’t believe me, take trip with me one day and i’ll show you each interior fitting and compare.

Adam (aka Mada)

Also where is the Toyotas passenger car diesel range??

snerd

Just ignore Frugal One. He seems to be wallowing ecstatically in the notion that despite losing our manufacturing base, Adam Smith’s invisible hand will ensure we get plenty of LPG powered unicorn flavoured rainbows to eat. Or something.

Adam (aka Mada)

LOL

http://aca Bilstein

Watto, it is a shame about the L6 because it has always been the best towing engine ever in a standard Australian family car by a country mile and certainly a very durable one at that. Equally the same, it was a shame that the Fairlane came to an end aswell.

I just don’t understand why Ford Motor Company didn’t exploit the potentials we have here in Australia with the Falcon and Territory buy opening them up to the global market. I beats me to understand otherwise, it really does.

Adam (aka Mada)

And that last comment is why i lack any sort of respect in relation to your auto knowledge…
You should know why.
still waiting…!

Oh, Ford i might actually last the distance, damn it!

Frugal One

ADAM -

We look foward to your ownership reports with your new [collectors item!] Orion

I am like most of the other public, no need or requirment for a big Falcon.

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

As usual you have something not worth saying…

Funny how people avoid answering questions that may require facts.

I drive all makes and models as my daily car…

I take you drive a 3 door yaris, bright blue in colour.

Adam (aka Mada)

Bilstein…

Want me to show you the quality highlights of a camry/aurion vers the a falcon and commodore?

So what do you do for a living, anything to do with the auto industry, as it appears you drive some of these cars to actually know what they are like?

Frugal One

Bilstein -

Good comment, the problem is there is no market for the Falcon, no need in Europe or Asia as its to big.

Just a few markets like S/Africa and NZ, but is small quantity

No use in USA either, they want pick-up-trucks and vans.

*Could* be sold in the middle-east but would need to be LHD, not worth the effort as Ford USA already have junk to send them

Cheers

F-0

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, i personally have never stated that Ford ops will close down in three years because quite frankly i believe they will be around for a while yet. You have aimed that at the wrong person.

If you want evidance that Holden advertised that the VE would be the class leader in safety then just refer to any magazine that covered the VE when it was launched. You will find all the answers to your question right there, wheels would be the perfect start.

Anyone can start nit pick anything on any car until thier hearts content so don’t get me started on issues and interior trim faults with the VE or even the Falcon for that matter because i can give you a list longer then my arm and it dooesn’t change the fact that the quality on the Camry and Aurion is ranked highly amoung many of it’s competitors especially against the Falocn and Commodore.

You must be getting desperate when you start putting quality related issues under the microscope.

Frugal One

ADAM -

Don’t drive a car, have a choice of 2 vans and *her* X Trail.

Looking at trading the X Trail and getting a Corolla or a I30, prob. the Corolla, as you get free lifetime carwashes [*she* wants that!!] and also will be stronger at trade-in time.

Will wait for the Stability-Control fitting and more luxo fittings ["hello BigT how about elec. windows in the back?"] and maybe a 5-speed auto [not holding breath on that]

If the local Mazda dealer offered free-carwashes [when will the wake up and learn?] would have already purchased a CX7….For the amount of miles she does the fuel use is not that much of a extra issue.YOUR CALL BRIGHTON-MAZDA!!

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

FRUGAL ONE…

You better inform GM and Holden on that info! could be helpful…

BILSTIEN…

You supported some of the comments made by the above mentioned when it came to Ford on thier way out…so it does apply to you also.

Oh, so your refering me to the so called sources for proof on your comments? But you don’t even know why falcon hasn’t been exported and why FORD US has never taken the falcon more seriously, you have me confused, you know so much and so little at the same time?? How does that work?

So do you work in the auto industry? or drive every model daily?? i suspect not so you really don’t have much to back you up…

I’ll try this on you now…it’s been commented many times in vehicle comparisons that camry/aurion and 380 interiors aren’t as good as thier reputations would have you believe and lacking in some areas compared to falcon and commodore.
I’m sure you can find that info easy, as you know wheels quite well?

desperate? me no…

You never answered my question on Ford losing local presence compared to Toyota, if you work in the auto trade and my offer to personally take you on a guided tour of interior quality of the local offerings!

but you can back yourself up with ‘ranked highly among many of it’s competitors especially falcon and commodore’
what the hell is that? you sound like a politician!
Real life experience is what will make you see the light…

Adam (aka Mada)

Frugal One…

Right, so you want strong trade in value?
Buy a civic, mazda 3 or golf, heck even a focus matches the corolla for resale!
So you won’t buy a current corolla, oh no ESP, power rear windows or 5 speed auto, you mean toyota isn’t class leader for modle options and choice!? what a bloody surprise!
but you will wait like many do for Toyota as they are so much better remember?

Oh, mazda doesn’t have to offer those freebees, they sell on the strength of the brand and vehicles themselves…
People like you will pop on over too Toyota while mazda waiting lists remain full.
I can’t ever remeber seeing an ex-rental mazda 3, civic, focus, astra or golf! can you??

Cheers!

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, we can start discussing the related quality issues with the VE now if you want to considering many examples have surfaced without even acknowledging the three recalls.

Faulty fan switches, battery drain issues, bootlids and suspension bushes on Statesmans and fuel cap release spring to name only a few would get us started.

What have you got on the Camry/Aurion, a couple of firmly placed wobbly knobs of which can only be dislodged with much added pressure.

I’ll give another example on the VE. Place one of your fingers under the plastic moulding that joins/covers were the carpet meets the centre console in the footwell and apply only a small amount of force. I can guarantee you will dislodge the moulding everytime and then struggle to reposition it, if you even do because i haven’t been able to yet. Then do the same with the Camry/Aurion, it will bow outwards with added force but it will not dislodge.

Lets not pass up the fact that Motor report twelve quality related issues with each of the twelve differant examples they test drove of the VE Commodore.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam – i will correct you, of all the media reports in the comparios i have ever read i have never on one single cccasion ever witnessed a comment that indicated that the interior trim on the Falcon and Commodore is better then that of the Camry or Aurion.

Lets cut the crap and be honest, the Camry (and Aurion) are widely acknowledged and acceptaed with countless amounts of quality and customer satisfaction surveys to support my claim to be of a quality standard beyond Commodores and Falcons and always have been

Must i remind you of the varies surveys released in 2007 alone or should there be no reason to go forward with that. Just accept it, Commodores and Falcons are not acknowledged or accepted by the general public as quality cars because quite bluntly, they are not. How much more evidance do you need then that of all the years they have been selling in Australia.

And you know what, that is based on real life experiance not just by myself but by the market itself. Why do you need to be challenged on the subject

Adam (aka Mada)

I can list many trim issues for camry/aurion that mimic VE, my point is they are nowhere near in front like you and many would like to believe…TRD anyone?
The reality is most new cars are line ball for quality issues. Most are not the extreme type.
Toyota used to be way in front but that advantage no longer exists.

So i take it you don’t work in the auto trade and you don’t drive different makes and models weekly like i do?

Adam (aka Mada)

I give up!

All i can say if Ford is going nowhere anytime soon. corolla will not be number one seller in 2008.
orion will once again overtake aurion for sales, after one month!!
Ford AUS will be profitable again over the next 2 years without the aid of LHD exports..
Ford AUS will outdo Toyota AUS for profit vers market share, everyone does!

If you believe everything you read, your a fool. I know how customer satisfaction surveys work, they aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

Take a read of the latest vehicle compariosn in the previous edition of wheels, with the TRD aurion and XR6 Turbo falcon, guess which was rated higher?

Adam (aka Mada)

If the market was proof of anything why does the VE and falcon still outsell camry/aurion???

Toyota is market leader due to the range of vehicles offered but has never had a top selling vehicle…why?
Also, in the US Ford has overtaken Toyota for best picks from customer satisfaction levels.
GM and Ford US models now match Toyota quality levels.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, no small car currently on the market within the price range of the typical small car has a 5 speed transmission so why even bring it up.

The only true fault of the current Corolla has been gripes against it’s lack of ESP and as i mentioned earlier, that will be rectified (by my undertsanding) in August. That to the side, the current Corolla has actually been describe in more comparios then not as the most most refined, highest quality car with the most practical interior then any of it’s direct competitors. That said, cabin noise suppression from road roar and handlng have also been praised as with it level of mod cons and safety rating so why do people like yourselves keep avoiding all the values why the Corolla is a solid seller.

Don’t believe me then i advice you to read DRIVES (or even ACA’s recent review) compario as you will find it very interseting indeed.

Unfortunately, the only reason todate why the Corolla has missed out on winning awards is because of it’s current lack of ESP even as an option while most comparios have suggest that if it was available then the chances it would be the current leader in it’s market even pipping the Mazda3.

And while you talk about sales, with exception to the Mazada3, none of the list you named are huge sellers such as the Corolla despite it’s approx 40% fleet sales rate.

Care to explain that because quite frankly they are no as good as you like to believe. The Golf for example, defantly not in the same class as the Mazda3 or Corolla for quality. Don’t believe me, refer to the Australian Quality Survey as i’m sure you will be surprised by the results.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, surely you can answer that for me. Surely, surely, surely you can.

The Falcon and Commodore are 80% purchased by fleet companies with only 20% purchasing them with thier own money.

Toyota don’t have any top selling models. Are you sure about that.

How do you explain the results of the Yaris, Corolla, Prius, Camry, RAV4, Hilux, Prado, 70 series or 200 series in each of thier respective categories not to mention they have more in Australia’s top 10 best sellers then any other. Infact, Toyota often occupies 50% of the top 10 sellers alone.

And you believe GM and Ford now match Toyota for quality in the states. Are you sure about that. I suggest you refer to the late Consumer Choice Survey to determine your statement otherwise aswith the various JD Powers publications.

I guess when quality surveys and customer satisfaction ratings go against you they automatically become default until otherwise.

For somewho who supposedly works in the car industry you are starting to pass some rash statements,

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, the Falcon doesn’t outsell the Camry/Aurion while the combined effort of the Toyota duo has approaced to be within very close numbers of the Commodore.

Another rash statement.

Andrew M

Blisten,
there is credit in what Adam is saying.
did you also know that JD Powers no longer recommends Toyota as a default choice for finding a quality vehicle? yep even JD Powers has taken toyota off their Default list or recommendations.

also you call toyotas commercial range class leading??
well how come the BT50, Ranger and Navara constantly outscore the Hilux in many 4X4 tests??

also how confident are you that “no falcon or commodore has been miles ahead in safety compared to a camry”?
well how about the fact that an EA falcon out scored the Avalon and pre ’02 camrys?
or that the falcon has reigned at the top of the safety tree for a hell of a long time. sorry but australia made family cars have a dominant reputation when it comes to safety.
the only way the Aurion has been able to just climb to a point where it has been notice is that it offers ESP and side airbags as standard.
what do you think DSC and side airbags on the new falcon will do to its rating? back to the top of the tree I’d reckon

Oz.

F-O, why dont you just take a hike, unless you can respect Australian cars? You seem proud the 380 is going, now you want the Falcon to go, why?

http://aca Bilstein

Andrew, if you are going to tell a story then tell it correctly.

The two vehicles of discussion is the American manufactuerd V6 Camry mainly because of transmission faults that have sense been rectified and some issues associated with the 4×4 Tundra Truck of which predominately have also been fixed and now enjoy increasing sales and evolving popularity of the vehicle.

I recall recently reading an article about the Tundra that described despite some initial faults with the truck, the substance of the vehicle can not be undermined.

The Hilux is a single example of Toyota’s diverse commercial and 4×4 fleet and one of the most highly regarded examples of all as proven by generations of solid performance. Toyota’s commercial fleet is also satisfied by the 70 series and 200 series Cruisers while the Prado rounds-out examples of it’s off-road abilities. I’m sure you can not dispute otherwise.

Comparisons are conducted over what, a few kilometers. Durability is conducted over years.

I agree that Falcons have enjoyed a strong safety record but incase you have not acknowledged, Toyota vehicles are regarded for their safety advancement in recent years amoung the best of them. Today, predominately most examples exhibit no less then 4 star ratings with many credited with 5 with some dedicated commercial examples exempt for what ever reason i personally do not understand.

As it stands today and until official NCAP results are released on the new Falcon, the Aurion currently holds the honour amoung large car competitors and they are the cars consumers purchase today.

Positives that came from the Kluger rollover that i believe was prevoked by Wheels according to the data download from the ECU unit off the vehicle involved was the structural integrity of the Kluger (and nodoubt any other Toyota) aswell as the effectiveness of the seatbelt pretensioners.

I also recall that Wheels acknowledged that Toyota’s ABS calibration is now amoung the best to found anywhere in the world. I guess some added attention may be required with thier ESP system but then again maybe Wheels is just being unreasonable.

Isn’t it marvellous when the whole story is expelled and not just convenient little snippets.

http://aca Bilstein

Oz, do you want the Camry and Aurion to go ??

Andrew M

yes mate im sure everyone likes the whole story, but it puzzles me as to what your comment had to do with the story that i told………..

Oz.

No Bilstein, I don’t want any of the Australian cars companys to go.

http://aca Bilstein

Oz, i like your answer.

Andrew, long i now but it puts substance to the story without neglecting the truth of it all. I believe it is always positive to tell the full story and not part off. That way consumers can make a more informed decision.

Andrew M

Blisten,
what i mean is that what you replied with was 90% excuses and not a result of anything i left out

for one i dont know how the kluger was relevant to “my story”

also whether or not you say the tundra and camry “are good vehicles beneath their problems” is irrelevant. The VE commodore is also a good vehicle “beneath its problems”

all i was trying to highlight is the fact that toyota quality has slipped to a point where the likes of JD Powers for e.g. no longer recognises them as a stand out reliable company, hence they are not really any better than most out there.

also with the Hilux, i was pointing out that toyotas #1 seller in the commercial range isnt exactlly class leading.

http://aca Bilstein

Andrew, all i am trying to do is ensure the accuracy of your comments. JD powers has for many long years and still does today recommend Toyota by default because of thier impeccible history with exception of two examples only and that specifically being the V6 Camry and 4×4 Tundra. You may also recall that they commented that once Toyota had rectified the faults they will once gain recommend each vehicle of which has probably already been done by now but that is only my assumption.

Toyota coming under fire from time to time is a positive as far as i am concern because it ensures they stay on the ball when it comes to the expectations they have created for themselves and that is not a bad thing because it should ensure a continued quality product from the T itself.

However, if they do experiance flaws then customers would only expect a professional attitude to rectify the shortcomings and that has been the ability that Toyota has been able to demonstrate in recent months.

That said, judging by all late surveys not just in Australia but in America, despite some late issues – Toyota remains amoung the very best of them were quality, reliability, dependability and customer satisfaction is of concern. Just refer to any dated or late survey to support my claim if you are indoubt.

The fact is, Toyota is still better then most out there it is just that some such as Honda and Mazda have court up whereas the likes of GM, Ford and Chrylser still very much lagg behind.

Class leading or not, the Hilux is very much a strong performer that has proven it’s capability, dependability and durability over many long generations not just a few blog laps around Cruiser Park.

I am sure you are a resonable person to accept that.

Adam (aka Mada)

Bilstein…

1. Toyota has NEVER had the top selling vehicle in AUS, as in falcon and commodore.
They collectively have the biggest market share to the size of product choice they offer.
The what i mean about Australias top selling vehicle.

2. You admit Toyota leaves ESP off the options box for consumers then proceed to make excuses for them just like a die hard Ford or Holden fan would!?
Take corolla %40 fleet sales away and mazda 3 and others would be line ball with the corolla, mazda 3 would beat it.
Thats reality.

3. Yes, yes i’m sure about that, and that and this. I’m sure…!

4.Why would you add the total of camry/aurion to outdo falcon or commodore? last i checked falcon and commodore don’t offer a 4cyl to make that compariosn fair, i guess you HAVE to add the totals?

5. Yes GM and Ford have closed the gap to asian auto makers, Sorry unless it’s Toyota you either won’t believe it or you will make an exception.

6. You sound just like a politician, please stop.
Class leading or not!? i thought that was the point for ultimate sales leaderhsip and such a steller reputation?

Truth is what sells more is not always the best. What sells the most is not always the most profitable. If you think that sales volume is the most important thing, your a fool, there is much more to sales than volume alone.

Out of all this, you have supported some of FRUGAL ONES baseless comments yet offered no real support as to why many think Ford will shut up shop.
You don’t drive any of these vehicles on a daily basis, you don’t understand why Ford has not used the falcon worlwide etc.
You can’t answer why Toyota AUs doesn’t make profits that support it’s market share standing, why toyota can’t produce convincing class leading products for such a cash rich company, yes i agree slow and steady, trouble is Toyotas time is up, no more excuses they have the time. Toyota have had the cash and size to make the best vehicles in the world, not just fridges on wheels.
Why can’t Toyota AUS make a substantial profit based on local sales and sheer volume of vehicles they export??
Why doesn’t Toyota AUS produce a unique vehicle for the AUS market? perhaps a RWD platform to go head to head with falcon and commodore? oh thats right Toyota has NO affordable RWD platform that can match falcon or commodore.
Before you mention Lexus, in the falcon or commodores price range! No V8s, No utes, no locally produced SUV, slime diesel options, no wagons.

Thoguth you wanted to tell the full story!?

You know one thing, Toyota reputation, nothing more.

Ex-Toyota contractor

Adam,
Stop wasting your time. You are not debating with a rational ‘individual’. You asked if Bilstein worked in the auto industry. Clearly he does: He is obviously being paid to spread the Toyota propaganda on sites like this. Toyota do do it – Fact. That is how come he has instant access to ANY info that will support his case, yet anything that will discredit his propaganda is strangely ‘unavailable’.

http://aca Luke GT

Adam : you just repeated the same stuff that you have done before that i replied with strong answers to but obviously you struggle to accept the reality of todays market.

No matter what – Toyota has the sales, reputation, diversity, stability, profits and wealth that companies like GM and Ford can only hope to achieve sometime.

And i haven’t ever stated that i don’t drive a diverse range of cars on a regular basis so why have you passed assumption otherwise. Why did you find it necessary to say it when you don’t understand the person you are chatting to.

Ex : i don’t work in the auto industry or anything of a kind. I just like my cars as most blokes do but i also enjoy my research everybit as much.

http://aca Bilstein

Oops, i just sent that under my sons identity.

We both have been having a chat on this site. We both enjoy cars and have been working on restoring an old 1982 Celica but is proving a little more difficult then anticipated and alot more expensive may i add.

Anyway, change that above post to Bilstein and i’m sure Luke will have his peace to add sometime aswell.

Adam (aka Mada)

Blah, blah, blah…

Come back whe you have some real life exposure to the vehicles you’re commenting on.

Truth

So thats at least 3 identities on CA that Toyota are spamming us with!

Toyota Propaganda

Bilstein, Luke GT, Awsome Aurion. One person, one PC, Paid by Toyota.
Have you killed off “Dingo” for good?

Adam (aka Mada)

Some people have too much time on their hands…

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, i suggest you come back when you can offer me information that is correct and just. You obviously have little to offer against my answers.

Who are you to be suggesting i have no life experiance with the cars we are commenting on. Were is your proof of that or do you have a habit of passing assumptions when outclassed. Suggests alot to me (or in this case, little) about your personality when you have to resort to low acts as i suggest you have little going for yourself otherwise.

One thing i must say and that is over the years i have increasingly noticed the poor sportsmanship of Holden and Ford supporters when challenged. Why is that i wonder.

As i said under another topic, myself and Luke GT are two different people on the one computer and are not Awesome Aurion or Dingo. I couldn’t careless otherwise. Sad conversation indeed when it has to come to this.

I am sorry for waisting my own time.

Adam (aka Mada)

Blah, Blah, Blah…

As i said earlier come back when you some experience driving the vehicles we are commenting about.
Your argument is based on toyotas reputation alone.

Also you can stop the politician like tone in your responses and acting like the victim.

I ask for supportive evidence as to why toyota AUS is anymore financially stable than Ford AUS and you can’t answer that question, simple.

Adam (aka Mada)

I’m not the only one curious about your answers…

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, i have never suggested that Toyota Australia is more stable. However, what i have done is highlighted valid and strong points not just about Toyota’s behaviour in Australia but that on a global level and why i consider they have a good cf a chance as any for sustaining ops in Australia so i believe i have very much answered your question in full.

Andrew M

Blisten,
my comments are fairly accurate (well a hell of a lot more accurate than you are trying to make out)
it is a fact that JD Powers stopped recommending Toyota (not just the tundra or camry) by default.

and why would they say when the fix it they will recommend then once again?
its like them saying once they fix the fuel leaks, seat belt dramas and battery drain issue they will recommend the VE commodore.
isnt a recommendation meant to be of a company that gets it right first time?

i dont buy by surveys but rather personal findings and experience. surveys reflect the “opinions” of people. they are more a reflection of customer service rather than the truely better “first time round” quality vehicle.

i can make a list the lenghth of my arm that i know regarding the previous gen camry.

also i am pretty familiar with the Hilux. familiar enough to comfortably say it is overrated.
why is it overrated? well because people think it is the best and it simply is not

http://aca Bilstein

Andrew – accurate are you, i think not.

Do yourself a good favour and re-visit that JD Powers survey because that is exactly what they stated – V6 Camry and 4×4 Tundra only and for the reasons stated. They then went on to comment that no other Toyota was affected by thier decision. Your information is grossly inaccurate.

I think you need to exercise more caution with what you say because you are beginning to look sillier at each response. Being a smart a*se does not change the facts and current climate of the automotive industry.

Each and every individual have thier personal experiances which is exactly why the more reputatable quality and customer satisfaction surveys are collated over a spance of demographical customers and location in any effort to improve the average and guage an overall standing.

I’m sure you can appreciate that comprehensive reviews hold a damn lot more weight and influance then that of individual opinions that chances are – are fabricated over the internet anyway. Sorry bloke but i don’t buy into your reply.

And once again, the reputation of the Hilux has been established over many long and often hard earnt years of exposure not just single individual opinions such as yourself. Who’s to say i haven’t been exposed to the Hilux or even drive one today.

You carn’t be good old fashion reality.

Adam (aka Mada)

Where is Toyota Corps competitive RWD platform?? V8s?

Imagine if Ford AUS facelifted the mondeo, placed a V6 in and called it a falcon!? there would outrage!

Lucky Ford and Holden use their own developed RWD platforms…
I’d hate to think how boring our choice would be if Ford and Holden go mainstream FWD.
variety is the spic of life.

TP

Where is Ford Australias reliable motoring vehicle? Doesnt exist. People here are so fascinated with RWD its funny, especially on a street, you power slide these days and you lose your car… hell you take a corner to fast (to show the differences between FWD and RWD your going to need to go VERY fast) you can get fined for reckless driving.

http://aca Bilstein

Adam, were is Ford’s competitive hybrid, RAV4, Prado, 70 series, 200 series, IS250, GS series, LS Series, RX series, LX series. Ford doesn’t even have a luxury brand anymore with the selling of Jaguar for a few pennies to the Indians and desmise of the Fairlane.

TP

All the Ford Fairies have is RWD (that inefficient platform that is no use on the street) and V8s (the engine format that is dying a slow and painful death).

Adam (aka Mada)

Bilstein…

Once again i have questions, not answers???? do you understand English????
Where is Toyota’s RWD platform? V8? wagon? ute? which just happens to be the top selling vehicle is AUS.
Oh, thats right it’s the facelifted camry with a V6 engine.

TP…

So now RWD is dangerous and thats why Toyota doesn’t have one? You like to handle your tool don’t you! but i thought Toyota invested in unique models like Ford and Holden????

Ford has plenty of reliable vehicles on sale here, again your hand on your over used tool.

So Ford should facelift the mondeo, offer the V6 and call it falcon???? would that make more sense for you 2?

So now a RWD platform is inefficient platform? I think you should inform Lexus now.

Bavarian Missile

Gee TP…….you get out of the wrong side of your Camry this
morning!

So I guess if Fords RWD platform is no use on the street no one else’s is either?
So why are V8s dying a painful death? Where’s your proof of that!

Tell me why are the Euro makers still developing their V8s {you know the benchmark that Lexus TRY to follow}and continue to use RWD……

Back in your Camry and get out the right side this time !

Bavarian Missile

hahaha…….Adam pass the phone to TP so he can call Lexus!

Adam (aka Mada)

I think Ford and Holden should just close down local assembly and become a local engineering base and majority exporter.

That way they could line up againgst Toyota more accurately.

They would sell more as the general public prefer cheap imports, waste less money on local development of falcon and commodore, use more more money on marketing to brainwash people about how quality is now an equal to Toyota due to exclusive importation.
A win, win all round!
They could utilise a more ‘efficient’ FWD mondeo platform, make it handle like a Toyota and call it a large car comptetitor, yeah toyota has the right idea, they waste less money developing camry/aurion while covering the medium 4cyl and large 6cyl market segments!
ditch those V8′s, wagons and utes.
Oh the only negative i see is selling more while making less profit!? Yeah thats the go.

What are you doing Ford and Holden!?

Adam (aka Mada)

Bavarian Missile…

LOL yeah TP has gotten out of the wrong side of his camry, lucky it’s FWD!
I have the number for Luxes HQ ready to pass over, phone in hand!

Frugal One

oz
F-O, why dont you just take a hike, unless you can respect Australian cars? You seem proud the 380 is going, now you want the Falcon to go, why?

Easy,

GovCo has paid millions of MY TAXES to these inefficent home grown car makers to prop them up, for far to long.

They are manufacturing cars that FEW WANT TO BUY

They have tariffed to death imports [i for one would like my imports to be 10% less] USA/Thialand excl.

They should have NO SUPPORT from the GovCo, which other industry has been silver-spooned like this.

If they cannot manufacture without protection and hand outs, they have NO RIGHTS in my opinion to be in business.

The parent company overseas can foot the build, NOT the GovCo which = us.

CLOSE THEM ALL DOWN unless they can compete without GovCo help and holding there hand.

Cheers

F-0

Adam (aka Mada)

Do you have a clue at all????

Wht do the clueless persist on spewing thier crap on auto sites?

1. ALL loacl assemblers get goverment hand outs, yes Toyota included.
2. Goverment assisstance is not an Autralian concept, many countries offer the same deal around the world.
3. I don’t understand this concept that we build vehicles we don’t want to buy???? i don’t see ANY imported car take the top selling position yet.
4. Focus will be built here from 2011.
5. Tariff reduction have held a helping hand in local auto industry downturn.
6.VE, falcon, territory still outdo the camry/aurion volume for local sales!
7. We you get a clue as to the REAL reasons why the large car segment have declined you might actually understand, it’s not just one or two factors involved.
8. The auto industry is not the only industry in this country to recieve such handouts! Many others do also.
9.To be honest the goverment hand outs pale in comparison to the actuall development costs that are really involved.
10. I’m sure there’re many things you don’t like your tax dollars to be spend on, what are you going to do about that?

CHEERS!

Bavarian Missile

Well I guess Frugal if you want to take funding away from Car Manufacturers in Australia based on the fact if they can’t do it themselves they should shut shop, that leaves a lot other businesses out in the cold too with Government funding…..

Gee its bad enough in this country manufacturing on all levels is decreasing without pulling funding away as well from those trying to succeed and continue giving Australians opportunities to prove themselves in the World market…..

Take a look at what the Government currently funds other businesses in Australia at

www {dot}business.gov.au/Business+Entry+Point/Business+Top

Take it away from all of those too you think, what do you think the out come would be for Australian business if we did that! Would it affect your job?

Bavarian Missile

Gee Adam you have to stop beating me to the answers…..arrrr well I guess we just have the same common sense babe! You passed that phone to TP yet or is he still trying to find the door handle in the Camry????hahaha

Oz.

.

F-O give some support for christ sake. How is that a reason to hate Australian products?

Andrew M

BM,
TP doesnt know which is the right side of the camry because they put the handbrake on the wrong side to start with. no wonder he is confused……

Blisten,
mate ill stop being a smart A##E if you stop being so full of your self……..DEAL??????

mate i too read when JD powers took toyota off their list i guess ill have to find a quote to satisfy you. dont count on it any time soon though as i have better things to do this weekend.

TP,
also while you are on the phone to Lexus, ask them to put you through to the head of the Hilux development.
try and tell those guys that trying to lug a load with a RWD is a has no use in the real world. i dont think A FWD Aurion could even tow a ride on mower with out going over the load restrictions.
what happens when you put load on the back of a FWD car TP????

also ive had this argument before but never gotten an answer to this
if FWD is soooooo much more efficient, then how come the Heavier falcon has no trouble matching the fuel economy and 0-100 sprints of the Aurion???
and dont argue over .2-.3 litre

http://aca Ford Oz No More

Last months sales of the Falcon – 1200 … LOWEST EVER !!

Last months sales of the Commodore – 3200 …. ONE OF IT’S LOWEST EVER.

Last years exports of local Toyota vehicles … 90 000

Last years exports of local Ford vehicles … BUGGER ALL

Ford Oz Employees … RETRENCHED

Ford Oz Fairlane … RETRENCHED

Ford Oz L6 … RETRENCHED

Ford Oz current monthly sales … LOWEST EVER

Ford Oz in quality Surveys … NOT GOOD

Ford Oz in Customer Satisfaction Surveys … NOT GOOD

Ford Oz ads … CRAP

Ford Oz profits … WHAT PROFITS

Ford Oz wealth … WHAT WEALTH

Ford Oz stability … WHAT STABILITY

Andrew M

^^^^
apart from showcasing you shallow approach to things,
what was your point to be made there??

the start of the year is tough for all retailers so does that mean no retailers on OZ too??

TP

Adam talking about waking up on the wrong side of things, I said RWD is dangerous? You cant read then. I said its inefficient, that doesnt mean dangerous… learn to read… I meant you get less power to wheels and sucks down more fuel… for the benefit of handling which isnt felt unless you drive it like you stole it, in which case enjoy spending time down at the cop shop. RWD and V8s is a poor argument against Toyota, they offer so much more then Holden and Ford and even performance, with TRD Aurion and possibly TRD Corolla in addition to Celica and AE86.

BM yes the V8 is dying out, the large Falcon itself is dying out… the poster above Andrew highlights the facts.

Andrew back to you RWD towing crap, its called a Kluger…. not that an Aurion couldnt handle light loads, such as a ride on. So yeah the Falcon can tow… but given their lack of reliability even when trying to tow their own weight, you wont get past 150,000kms pulling alot of weight… you will need the worlds toughest vehicle for that, the Hilux.

Oz.

Ford Oz No More, what is your point? Do you want Ford to go, or are you someone fed up with what Ford is doing, so they can do better when the new model comes out?

Andrew M

TP,
the poster above said nothing about V8′s dying out.

also hilux the toughest vehicle in the world??
are you baiting us or something? all other Jap truck offerings from mazda, ford, mitsubishi and nissan are equally as good as the hilux for a much more reasonable price tag.
and for the record my falcon will out tow a diesel hilux off the line.

oh and the toughest vehicle in they world hey??
have you heard of the F Truck range? they would come pretty close. they drop those things out of planes and swing them around by the front tow hooks to demonstrate the fact.

TP dont be so fooled.
just because toyota branded their hilux as “unbreakable” in their marketing campaigns you believe it.

AND THAT COMES FROM YOURSELF WHO HAS NEVER DRIVEN A HILUX

pfffft turn it up mate

oh and why does an AWD Kluger tow better than an aurion? think about it………
oh because it has power at the rear wheels to help!!!!

TP

Mate I linked the Top Gear video… they also took one into the snow… its been voted worlds toughest vehicle. Its all well known for its reliability, as most Toyotas are.

Oz.

Does that mean a Hilux is tougher than a tank?

A tank is vehicle, isn’t it

Andrew M

TP,
wasnt the top gear Hilux heavily modified?
gee you are easily won over by clever toyota marketing

Bavarian Missile

Yep as much Toyota as a F250 Monster Truck is Ford babe!hehehe

Oz.

Take TP’s comment as a joke!

Andrew M

yeah ill take your advice OZ,

i dont know if he is baiting us,
or whether he is really that dillusional

TP

Andrew they had another episode on the toughness of the Hilux, it was abit of stage show but its highlighted their reputation. I doubt they even know a Falcon ute exists in other countries, and if they did, theyd laugh, the design of them doesnt suit a working life.

Oz.

Ha Ha TP, So now you don’t admit the Hilux is the “World’s toughest Vehicle” anymore!

TP

No it is…. thats the reputation which is obviously based on peoples experiences, isnt it! But yes the tests they did on top gear was for a show.

Oz.

Can we laugh TP?

You never asked my question… Does that mean a Hilux is tougher than a tank?

Andrew M

TP,
mate just because the falcon ute has a far more comfortable ride and much better handling doesnt mean it isnt up to the hard working tasks that a tradie may demand.

ive seen many falcon utes that satisfy the needs of brick layers, and boy do they know how to miss treat a vehicle.
crap all over the vehicle and scratches every where also ripped cloth on the seats,
and they are still going strong.

saying the hilux is the toughest vehicle in the world is a bit like the claims that the maloo is the fastest ute in the world.
what did top gear test along side the hilux to ensure its claims were correct??
it was the toughest vehicle in the one horse race so therefore it is the toughest in the world???? Go figure…

have they dropped the hilux out of a plane in the same way they test the toughness of the F Truck series?
an F-Truck would kill the hilux for toughness.

also why do you conclude that the falcon ute doesnt suit the working life. i think that it will be us right here that get the laugh whilst you try to elaborate

Oz.

Also, I know what both F-250 and Hilux chassies look like and wow, the Ford F-Series looks like it’s a semi compared to a Hilux. Not to mention the F-250 has a monster Dana diff which is huge compared to a Hilux’s diff.

Oh, TP. If you think the Hilux is the toughest Vehicle, how come Toyota has a Tundra, which is tougher than a Hilux?

Now don’t go quiet, TP. How are you going explain that other than Top Gear?

Frugal One

I smell a rat, wasnt this guy, R.McEniry a ex GM/H top-knob?

He was placed in this position by GM/H to take Mitsu. out of the equation.

Another ~10,000 large sedan sales [ex 380 buyers] that GM/H can pick up a large portion of!

Cheers

F-0

TP

Oz and Andrew I dont have to justify anything guys, Top Gear did the test… they voted it worlds toughest vehicle. Provide me with a source which is contrary to this, or just accept it!

Andrew M

i have a source,
its called monster trucks ha ha ha ha

the top gear test was fiction.

i suppose you get your car reviews from that childrens car show called “Brum”???

Bavarian Missile

hahaha………Brum!

Oz.

Listen Paul, no matter what you say, Hilux’s are not a really tough vehicle. You can’t change that.

I am telling you a source, I know their chassies!

BTW, that Hilux Top Gear tested was modified.

Oz.

Damn you Andrew!

You responded to Paul before me!

Oz.

Paul: if you want an offical source to show what’s tougher than a Hilux, I’ll take a photo of a semi trailer’s chassies and A Hilux’s chassie beside each other and I’ll post it on the forum if you like….

http://aca Tony Rodrega

Andrew – why are you comparing the Hilux to a F series as they are not competitors. You should be comparing the Ranger to the Lux and the Tundra to the F.

That’s what any resonable person would do.

Let me tell you, a Hilux is very tough unit as demonstrated over many long and often hard years. Nothing comes more truer then the greatest test of all … Test Of Time – and you carn’t change that.

Oz, why are you comparing a truck to a Lux.

Oz.

Tony Rodrega, make sure you check what’s going on first. TP thinks the Hilux is the toughest in the world.

And why are we comparing a F truck with a Hilux? Because we showing an example of a vehicle which is tougher than a Hilux.

BTW, we are not disputing any test of time where a Hilux would do well – You CAN’T change that.

Bavarian Missile

The whole Hilux and F truck thing happened when TP implied that the Lux they {Top Gear } took to the North Pole was a Toyota….so then the reply came back that if that was a Toyota then F250 monster Trucks must be Ford!

Did you note the Hilux they used in the early TG was a Japanese made model…….why didn’t they use one thats now made in Thailand I wonder ?

http://aca Bilstein

Oz, i am sure Tony would agree with yourself on the matter. No the Hilux is not the toughest and Toyota don’t engineer it to be so within it’s own line up aswell. I believe the 70 and 200 series would take that mantle in Australia and probably the Tundra within it’s US range of vehicles.

I believe each paty of made some good points. Lets just try and compare apples to apples without each of us going overboard – myself included.

Regardless, over the years the Hilux has certainly proven to be a hard example to pass for durability. Very little can often seperate competitors when new or near new but the true values of each are all to often surfaced when they begin to age with time, miles and exposure and this is an area were Toyota has well for itself.

Andrew M

Blisten,
good to see a calm conversation mate dont you agree?

either way you look at it all the jap trucks are equally as good as each other. toyota has promoted theirs a lot better hence why they enjoy the spoils in sales that they do now.

ill repeat again…….
all the jap trucks are as good as each other whether it be a mitsubishi, mazda, ford or toyota they are all equal.

they only real thing that separates them is price. the hilux is probably the worst value for money…why? well because they can charge extra when they become the default choice for a light truck

Tony,
you jumped the gun mate…….
try following the conversation before you comment

Andrew M

oh and Blisten,
im pretty sure the F Series would eat the tundra in the US for toughness

http://whitecarchariot.net.au Stewie

It,s obvious that only half a dozen people reply to this site. Get A life!!!