Imagine an R series AWD with a twin turbo set-up with 150kw and 400nm of torque and a 7 speed DSG.
With a performance diesel, the first thing that comes to mind is ‘chip’. This one small hardware will do wonders to power and acceleration. It’s too bad two front wheels can only do so much with heaps of torque. Perhaps an oiler R is just around the corner.
C.A you got fuel consumption wrong GTI 7.3LT to 100km and GTD 5.2LT to 100km and GTD can go down to 4.0lt to 100km on hwy lol love it.
I just checked it and both figures refer to DSG.
Now I know why only 280nm is available for the GTI.
The chassis must not be engineered to cope with extra torque unlike e.g the Megane RS250,XR5 and even the Focus RS which all cope extremely well with over 300nm!
Think again, dufus.
One tester thinks the car has too much torque (and he’s wrong) and you conclude the chassis is not engineered to cope with extra torque.
The City Performance MKV R32 with twin turbos has 247Kw at the front wheels (measured on a FWD dyno) and the chassis has no trouble coping with the associated torque, estimated at 550Nm. See Modern Motor October 09.
The MKVI chassis is an improvement over the MKV.
There are thousands of Stage 1 chipped MKV and MKVI GTIs getting about, all making 350-400Nm without fazing the chassis one tiny bit. No suspension or gearbox mods are necessary either.
Are we not talking about Front Wheel Drive?
So what does the AWD MKV R32 have to with the discussion?
I know…you didn’t know that the R32 is an awd Golf.
It’s the same chassis, dumdum.
A chassis that has it’s torque distributed through 4 wheels instead of two and with a different front/rear weight balance due to the driveshaft and diff up the back. That alone will make a bit of difference to handling, especially when accelerating out of a corner…
Note: I am NOT saying the FWD GTi’s chassis can’t handle the torque (I agree, it can handle much more than what a stock one produces). I am just saying that while the basic chassis is “similar” between the GTi and R32, the R32 chassis will ALWAYS be able to handle more torque due to the fact that it’s maximum torque will be distributed through twice as many wheels. ie, the front wheels will only be transmitting half as much torque to the road allowing them to ‘concentrate’ a little more on steering. I tyre only has so much grip available. It is basic physics…
“Let’s talk money. The Volkswagen Golf GTD is priced at $41,790, that’s $300 more than the GTI. Considering that you’re only saving 1.8L/100km in purchasing the diesel over the petrol powered Golf, it stands to defy logic why you would buy the GTD over the GTI.”
It’s called economy, yes?
Actually your wrong ont he pricing, GTD is cheaper. Base starting price for a 5 door manual GTD is $39,290 and for same spec GTi it starts at $40,490.
I haven’t driven a GTI, but I’ve driven a manual one of these and wanted to buy the car I drove, there and then. I have to wait a little longer, sadly. I loved it. The manual’s a beaut, and the engine note is surprisingly rorty. Didn’t notice the torque steer in the new car I drove respectfully around the dealer’s suburb.
The manual does 5.3l/100km, better than my MkV 1.9. That’s what there is to love, but I’d still want a go in a GTI. Do you go zing and zestiness or monster torque and economy? Different fun, but both fun, I’d say.
had a 103TDI Golf Mk VI as loan car while my GTI Mk V was in for service… very impressed… can only imagine how good the GTD would be…
I drove the GTD around Sandown for a few laps. The shortcomings of the narrow rev range of the diesel became apparent when exiting the first corner, even though the thing was pretty fast, reaching 210kph at the end of the straight, and utterly stable at speed and under brakes. I didn’t notice at any stage that the car had too much torque.
So, as good as the GTD is, the GTI is much better. A tiny bit more fuel is not a factor that should sway a purchaser.
I drove the GTD before I bought the GTI. Even on the street, the narrow rev range of the diesel was annoying to me.
Diesel engine + auto in what is meant to be a hot hatch??
NO thanks!!!!, Give me a std 6sp Manual GTI 5 door in classic white with tartan trim please, imo-)
The number of times I hear a journo complain about the DSG tranny amazes me, I’m qualified to speak as I own one (in a Skoda Octavia RS wagon)… rest assured I would not have bought a car with a DSG if it “shoved” my passenegrs around! Whilst I agree that Volkswagen could make the DSG smoother on the uptake (as other manufacturers seem to be doing with their dual-clutch trannys) the DSG can easily be driven smoothly, it simply requires the driver to adapt their throttle inputs… I do it everyday, and the DSG has no jerkiness, its a sensational transmission in my books but like all technology it requires the user to appreciate its particular nuances and adapt to them to extract the best use from the technology…. so quit your whining and learn how to adapt your driving style to the machine your in!!
I have 3 different volkswagens, all with DSG’s, each of them are different in the way they drive, the most expensive of which(V6 passat wagon) is the worst for jerkiness. still love the cars though
I’ve had my DSG 2.o ltr diesel golf for 4 months now. Love the car – but I have grown to absolutely hate with a passion the gearbox.
The built-in delay before forward motion happens can really leave you hanging out there. It has left me in scary postions with cars coming at me when I have tried to change lanes quickly from a standstill. It also feels like the car applies the brakes when I take my foot off the accelerator if I am driving in stop start traffic.
I understand the particular torque charecteristics of diesel engines, but having driven several other diesel auto vehicles for extended periods, none of them have done what this DSG gearbox does.
Reading the comments above and below, also show up different opinions – some love it, other all complain of the same issues, so perhaps some DSG’s leave the factory ok and other not… I also don’t struggle with other everyday basic tasks…
I have started looking around for another car again after only 4 months because I really am over this gearbox. Back to manual car for me.
I also cannot understand why people have trouble with the DSG saying it is not smooth from a standing start. I have a MkVI GTI with DSG and neither myself, my girlfriend, my mum or other friends who have driven it have had any problems getting a smooth start off the line. I can only wonder whether the people that have this issue also struggle with other everyday basic tasks….
GTI DSG being petrol is very different to the power delivery with a diesel DSG. This is partially because of the turbo lag. I think the best fix is for VWAG to put a bi-turbo or twin turbo configuration in these things.
Works a treat for BMW’s hot diesel hatch.
Interestingly my DSG does not suffer the same ‘jerkiness’ often ascribed to the box. It is a Skoda, and with the 103kw unit. I am only left with the conclusion that there is variance in the chip.
I have owned and driven a Golf TSi MkVI every day to work since May 2010 and find the DSG a pain in stop start traffic. I have owned about 20 different cars over the last 30 years including manuals and autos. Never experienced anything like this DSG and after 6 months fo drining still cannot get a smooth take off or stop in heavy traffic unless I drive like a 90 year old farmer George in the back of Bourke.
I have mixed comments from passengers. Some don’t really noctice it until I point it out, some notice it immediately.
For a car of this quality, VW have to fix it.
Other than that, it is a brilliant car!
I wonder who would take the cake if you compare GTD to Renault Sport Mégane II dCi 175 (which produces 127kW and 360Nm versus GTD’s 125kW and 350Nm). Maybe new Mégane will see a dCi variant join the range, like the previous generation.
Could it be that diesel hot hatches will become increasingly relevant in the future?
They wont. Renault have stated they wont bring in the updated diesel dCi variant because it had very poor sales last time round.
It had very poor sales because it wasn’t a patch on the performance of the petrol. A full second slower 0-100 in a model that ONLY sells on performance (it certainly didn’t sell on its fine interior)? Who on earth would buy the diesel version? I don’t think it says people won’t buy diesel sports cars in Australia, it just says people won’t buy diesel sports cars if they are slower than the equivalent petrol.
Steve, as you are probably be aware it takes a little time for Australia to catch on.
I have driven the Octavia RS. The accessible torque makes this machine quite a little beast in spite of the modest 125kw output.
Unless you are viewing a track machine, the torque aspect of diesels enhances their sports appeal no end. The condiment is that they run on the smell of an oily rag.
In the course of time…
One of the reasons to look at the GTD over the GTI is that of fuel savings. Here in Melbourne diesel sell for around the same price (depending on the discount cycle) as 91 unleaded. The GTI requires a minimum of 95 unleaded at around $0.10/ltr more than diesel. Based on the economy of both cars the GTD save the user around $750/year based on the average of 15’000 kms per year. Its not a lot but of course for a business user or somebody with a higher than average car useage per year, it soon mounts up.
Diesels are good at consuming less fuel than petrols in their first 100,000k.
After that, the running costs of the petrols are dwarfed by the diesels.
Try pricing an injector pump repair, an injector replacement, or a DPF replacement. All these items raise their heads in due course. The VW DPF replacement is $4000 or so for a MKV Golf.
These repair costs affect all diesels, not just VWs, and all brands are very expensive.
Having said that, it’s only fair to point out that the VW DI turbo engines all suffer from gunk buildup in the inlet tract, which gradually reduces performance till at 100,000 an inlet tract cleanout is required.
But also note that the same applies to ALL DI engines, turbo or not. It’s not just a VW issue.
Everytime I see this car I think of what an opportunity Mazda is wasting.
Mazda should put the 2.2 diesel in a 3 MPS body and simply put in the the mazda 6 diesel ECU tune.
Result = a Mazda3 MPS Diesel with 400NM of torque. It would fly!
They might need to borrow the revoknuckle suspension from Ford to stop all the torque steer though…
Mazda doesn’t have an auto, so that’s the opportunity they are wasting.
You can mix and match a theoretical combo of what Mazda could do, but even their theoretical best falls way behind the VW.
Mazda sells this combo in the UK, called the Mazda3 Sport Diesel. Awesomeness.
I asked about it, they said no plans to do it here. So I bought an Octavia.
I am a huge GTI fan, but now keenly interested in the RenaultSports offerings mind you, and thought this is a wannabe GTI that just can’t match the agility and heritage of the GTI.
The GTD is $1240 cheaper than the GTI 5 door and the GTD manual will save you about $1700 in fuel in the first 60,000 km.
I would rather have torque (350 Nm vs 280 Nm) than power.
I think 80 to 120 km/hr overtaking times are more important than 0 to 100 boy racer times.
Is the DSG jerky on take-off only when you floor the accelerator?
The DSG can be jerky when pussy-footing in stop-start traffic.
When you plant the foot, there is zero jerkiness, and instant reaction.
When in sport mode in the twisties, there is no jerkiness, just brilliant fun.
It’s worse in reverse or when on an incline.
I have owned a GTD (DSG) for 3 months. Apart from the Mechatronics unit (part of the DSG) failing after 1 month, the car is good. The surge of torque is amazing. You can takeoff from the lights like a rocket without the car revving right out and sounding like a d*ckhead.
I drive the car reasonably briskly and it is getting under 6l/100kms or just on 900kms off a tank. My friend has a GTI, yes it is ultimately faster, but its performance is not as usable in real world conditions (needing to rev it out) in my opinion. Also driving like for like, he barely gets 550-600kms out of a tank and then it is 10c more per litre to fill up. It really is worth doing a test drive.