but i wasnt quick enough to respond that QANTAS was born in QLD alongside XXXX and that they will take our airline though.

you would certainly cop it in the outback pubs though i guess

And don’t start on the VB thing … the ole’ man is always having a go at me about that so not you too.

That said – i have never said that Toyota does’nt have thier issues because EVERY CAR and EVERY MANUFACTUER have thier faults. However … some have more then others while others have more yet again. Apart from that, it also depends on how they choose to fix the identified problems … ‘if’ at all.

Example – the early widebody suffered from the lifting dash but Toyota fixed that problem pronto while Holden ignored any worthwhile attempt at every resolving the Rear main issue with the buick engine.

Even recently Toyota has demonstrated some resonsible behaviour like with stop sales associated with TRD Aurion and RAV4 V6 of which no-doubt has limited/stoppped the customers exposure to these identified irregularities.

Like i said earler today – it is a cultural thing.

there is/was 2 of those last gen camrys in the family including a 2002 4cyl manual sportivo (apparently it was the first manual they were asked for so they scrambled and found the hilux box to throw in it).
i know of all the little things you have mentioned (and the ones you dont want to)
at least you have stopped drinking your VB and are being honest with us that toyota does have fair share of issues too.

Question….
why do you drink VB if you are a QLD’r? obviously havent been here too long? i didnt know they sold that stuff here ha ha ha ha

oh and can i ask if your RHS (i think it is) tail light sticks out or is it not flush with the boot lid in the order of near 10mm?

In all i am happy with the car but admittedly there are some issues i would have expected better from Toyota. The reason i say it is because i also ’still’ own a ‘94 2.2 Widebody that has actually been an absolute gem as a solidly put together hack and of course one of the hardest examples of all to topple as a trouble free transporter.

Infact, i like my ‘ole girl’ (as i call it) because although it wouldn’t blow your hat in a snow storm (gutless), the bitch has never whinged a single day
in 13 yrs of motoring. Unfortunately – it is also one of those models that suffered from the lifting dash along the windscreen.

Anyway, sense i have had the Sportivo i have relised it isn’t as ROBUST as the ‘ole girl’ but on the other side of the coin – it is a much, much better drive. Also, it is very quiet and smooth on the highway … much quieter then my fathers 2002 Mazda6.

Issues i have had are all minor like replacing the two front window weather seals, gearstick boot and drivers door handle grab (squeeked a little but admittedly – i am a hard bastard when it come to cars) but mechanically … it hasn’t missed a beat.

Also – i find the paint marks all to easily.

Oh yeah , the ‘ole girl has now done 239 000km’h and has just deveolped it very first ever oil leak. A minor seepage from the sump gasket.

the gap between the front and rear doors.
at the top is fine but when you follow it down to the crease in them it widens.

also i can create a list as long as my arm on panel flushness/fit and finish and little problems with the last gen camry.

Sticking with name plates can often be a very wise choice especially if they are sellers. Correct marketing is a powerful tool.

Have a look at a typical Toyota add – they have mojo.
Then have a look at a Ford add – usually very dull like Ritchie Benaud inpersonation, it’s just so oh-hum.

So yes, seeling on familariy is a very good point but selling on merit is another.

Eitherway – how ever Toyota charges it is obviuosly working very well for them because not only are they selling cars but making an absloute multi-bilion dollar fortune form it aswell ofwhich is the balance that every company in any market wishes for.

if my mate bought the BT50 for the same price and there was no other cheaper alternative that offered a few gizmos more then i suppose he couldnt feel ripped off with a BT50.

he didnt feel ripped off cause he thought he bought a lemon, just because he could have gotten far better value for his money.

perhaps toyota need to demand a slightly higher price from its private buyers to make up for the discounts it gives its mass of buyers in the fleet sector?

i believe toyota sells a lot of cars on familiarity. i mean they have stuck to their name plates stronger than anyone else.
main competitors to the corolla, for eg the laser and pulsar had name plate changes meaning there would have been a big win for the rolla out of that.

I too now ’some’ people with the Hilux with some having them as work utilities and others as personal vehicles and ‘most’ of them have been happy with their purchase but once again – each for thier own.

I will agree with you on the fact that some Hilux variants have a price to them but i guess that only comes inline with that demand/supply increment.

Any manufactuer would be simply stupid if they charged less then what they could get for thier product. On a positive note – it proves that Toyota has the ability to play games with thier asking price if demand slips any.

Also – it just goes to show how powerful the Hilux reputation is when competitors ask less of thier examples and sell considerably less then say Toyota does despite it’s larger going price.

However – ask yourself this question – if your mate purchased an eqiuvalent model Hilux of the BT50 for the same price – would he still consider himself ripped off !!

It is the enjoyment that one manufactuer has the fortune to enjoy that another doesn’t.

Monthly sales of the Hilux is between 3500 – 4000 per month which is probably inline with Toyota Australia’s import quoter. If they can sell the bulk of thier monthly quoter at a ‘certain’ asking price then why would they wonna sell it for less.

Rememeber – Toyota is no different then any other company … they are in it to make money.

Any manufactuer would love to have the capacity to do that !!

Watto – yeah … that is nit picking.

Even a little humor,I especially like the Toyoya and Holden Robots,very clever Wheelnut!

Sorry Wheelnut……..HW took longer than I thought got carried away ! White carpet and a puppy don’t go too well!

Ill catch you tomorrow after work? I’m knacked now!

I’m guessing they didn’t until cars started coming back.

i doubt we will see eye to eye on the cruiser being a better off roader. the early use of coil overs in the patrol seems to be something that the cruiser has fallen behind in. its these coils as opposed to leafs that has seen the patrol have the greater suspension travel which is important for off roading.

i know a little more about hilux’s than i do cruisers so i can say they are by no means the commander or best in their class.
ive looked over their panel flushness etc and found it to be no better than anyone elses. also they ask quite i high premium for the lux over its competitors and the only reason i can see is because they can.
i have a few of mates who have current lux’s and a couple of them wish they had have got the BT50 as they felt they got ripped off.
they felt they just got swept into a lux because thats what we are suppose to drive isnt it?
hilux’s = good vehicles but not the best and therefore in my mind overrated

By the way .. Another way Toyota could enhance their image is by whacking a Supercharger on to their 1.8L 4cyl Corlla engine like Lotus did with the Exige S.. But not the one they boletd onto the TRD.

No – it is not about robots, it is about Reaserch and Development, fault identification, fault rectification, availability of speciised resources, training/education and off course the culture/discipline of the employees and as we all should know – that really can make or break a company.

Now … i am not saying that the discipline of a typical employee at Holden is any worse then say at Toyota but they can only perform thier duties in relative correspondance to accessible resources, training and of course – coaching.

Good example – Holden opted to let the Rear Main Seal on the buick to persist for 15 years while we all know Toyota would never allow that to happen…. it’s a cultural thing preached by more so by the company then any other.

No doubt all of us have left a position sometime in persuit of another because we haven’t agreed with how the business conducts it’s practices.

Does that mean that when the Toyota Robots have a break they do Origami or Sudoku

Yet when the Holden Robots have a break they have a smoke meat pie or a VB and scratch their back sides.

And because the Toyota robots are more disciplined they produce more better quality cars.

Andrew – because vehicles are manufactuered in the same country really does count for little because each manufactuer has it’s own cultural behaviuor.

Some great examples – Toyota, Holden and Ford all manufactuer cars right here in Australia yet statistically, Toyota vehicles have been of higher quality, reliability and dependability.

Hyundai and Daewoo are Korean manufactuered but Hyundai these days actually engineer a good car while even many companies biuld cars in Germany yet some have a greater reputation then others.

Country of orign is one thing but the cultural behaviour of a particular company is an entire different league and as proven – often the determining differance between a good vehicle and a not so good one.

No different to any bakery really – each may bake in the same town yet on of the two (or more)would have a better reputation for baking better pies.

Once again – learn to broaden your way of thinking.

Toyota has been confronted with many vehicles from the opposition for many years but have always proven to be the most rugged, reliable, dependable and durable off-road vehicle but with the upmost respect to Nissan and indeed the Patrol.

The Hilux has been around for years and has undoudtedly offered the consumer the most consistant performance while the Prado in it’s class is actually the best choice for off-raod ability – on road manners a liitle different admittedly.

The Landcruiser however – well, as far as i am concerned… it speaks for itself. To be absolutely truthful … nothing really does come as basic yet solid as a 70 series cruiser.

Have you actually checked out the latest example – the interior is virtually no-different by any means then those of twenty years ago but that said – they are engineered for a specific purpose. Actually, truth be told – Toyota actually states themselves that the 70 series is designed to be hosed out then driven off again.

Now … with referance to the Patrol, yep – a bloody damn good off-road muncher but the fact is … they have lost huge ground to Toyota is recent years.

The diesel Patrol can now only be had with a 3.0 turbo diesel and how on earth is that suppose to be able to compete with Toyota’s all new 4.5 turbo charged V8 diesels.

That said, Toyota is also leading the off-road technical race aswell.

People … i can understand critising Toyota cars but lets be brutually honest here – the off-road/commercial market is Toyota unchallenged domain for the very reasons it has consistantly and constantly proven why.