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Petrol to hit $1.50 per litre

By Matt Brogan |

shell-clyde.jpgIn what may be an ominous sign of things to come, petrol prices are set to hit a record $1.50 litre mean average within the next week.

Oil prices again hit the $100USD per barrel mark last night driving the pump price up as demand continues to outstrip supply.

The current pump average in Sydney is $1.44 whilst outer suburbs are already paying $1.50. Melbourne is paying well in to the $1.40 mark in what may soon become the norm considering political tensions in oil producing nations and heavy demand from new industrial giants like China and India.

Not only is the concern centred around the price of petrol, but the flow on (pardon the pun) affect of increased inflation and therefore higher interest rates.

CarAdvice looks forward to hearing your views in our comments section, and perhaps what you’re paying for fuel in your part of the country.


 
  • Frugal One

    ****PRIMO!*****

    Yeap, saw it went through the US$100 barrier.

    Time that Rudd cuts the excise on fuel.

    If ULP is $1.50cpl, DIEsel will be $1.60cpl

    NOT good, need to getg into a LPG vehicle ASAP

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Stu

    $1.35 in Bundaberg (Qld) for standard unleaded

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au Matt

    It’s even worse when you have to use Premium Unleaded (PULP). Payed $1.56 in South Melbourne this morning.

  • Benny J

    Filled up yesterday (Wednesday 2/1/08) at Gymea Shell at about 6:00PM and the guy inside said that the prices jumped 18cents to $1.47/L in the last 5minutes and that I had just missed it…thanks very much buddy…

    I asked him if an oil rig had exploded justifying the price rise and he replied “Oh no sir, I just get the phone call to put it up”

    I agree that Rudd needs to cut the excise.

    - Benny J

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    Cutting the excise on fuel will only provide a temporary relief from high prices. What we need is more efficient cars for the masses and the Hyundai i30 is a great start.

    Fuel will continue to climb regardless of whether Rudd cuts the excise because it is running out. Simple as that.

    What I can’t understand is all the folks buying massive 4WDs and then complaining about the price of fuel. You knew what you were getting yourself into. And if you didn’t, you are an idiot.

  • Reckless1

    If Rudd cut the excise, the oil companies would immediately increase the price to cover it.

    That would mean far less money in the Gov’t coffers (not that that would hurt, since Howard fleeced us pretty well so the coffers are well and truly overflowing, and far more money in the oil giants’ pockets, and NO saving for us.

    Forget the stupid schoolboy dream of reduced excise, and get used to the fact that petrol will soon be $2.00 a litre. Europeans have been paying twice what we pay for many years, and their economies work around it. Ours will have to as well.

  • Frugal One

    Why a Hyundai i30?Whats so special about it?

    A Yaris and a Mazda 2 are better engineered and better made and also more fuel economical vehicles, with better resale to boot.

    Its better than GM’H's Barina though!

    Yes Koreans have come a long way, NO NO NO they are not at the level of the Japanese, the Japs wont let them:-)

    If you refering to DIEsel, its 10-cents more, and around $2k more, take years and many many km’s to make it back

    Excise is currently 37-cents, Rudd does not have to give it all away, maybe just 20-cents.

    The BEST solution is LPG, end of story [Esp. since Rudd still gives you $2k to have it fitted!]

    Cheers

    F-0

    F-0

  • Lazybones

    “Cutting the excise on fuel will only provide a temporary relief from high prices. What we need is more efficient cars for the masses and the Hyundai i30 is a great start.”

    Yup spot on, the duty should be invested in future technologies.

    Anyway if you think $1.50 is bad, I was paying $2.50 per ltr in the UK in 2005!! Trust me, there is still plenty of room for price hikes.

    I heard an analyst on SkyNews claim, petrol would be about $60-$70 per barrel by the end of 2008. Personally i thinks he’s dreaming!! or working for Holden.

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    Frugal One: The Yaris and Mazda 2 are much smaller cars that have no hope in hell of fitting a family of 4 and all their stuff into them. An i30 on the other hand can.

    Removing the excise is akin to cutting income taxes, all it will do is increase spending in other areas and interest rates will go up creating more burdensome costs elsewhere. It may also increase demand for fuel, which will drive prices straight back up.

  • Glen

    I can tell you now oil is not running out. Oil companies state how much crude oil is refined per day to create a situation like now where they say there is a shortage whereas the truth is there is a shortage of refined product. There are millions of barrels of crude in sotrage all over the world just waiting to be processed but the oil companies are restricting production.

  • Peak Oil

    What if oil is running out?

    Whether you believe in peak oil or not – one fact remains – Oil production around the world from all oil fields has been in decline since 2005. No new large oil reserves have been found and domestic consumption of oil in the middle east has increased by 70%. We have to compete with every other country in buying oil from the middle east. The highest bidder wins. I don’t think Australia has the money to out-bid the US, China and Russia.

    I think you will find that within another two years – petrol will be at over $5 per litre. Not only will it be more exspensive – it will also be in short supply, so that will mean long queues at the servo.
    Just stop for a minute and think about what affect that will have …. on everything. Taking the kids to school – getting pineapples trucked from Qld – flying to Darwin – driving to work from the outer suburbs.

    If oil prices are set to rise in the coming years (and I think they are) – our governments and car companies don’t seem to be doing much about it.

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    What can the goverment do??

  • 280zx

    Thats great Stu maybe ill drive from Melbourne to Bundaberg and fill up! Whaddya reckon? LOL….

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au/ alborz

    I paid $1.55 last night for BP Ultimate in brisie, not taking my car for a drive anymore!

  • Andrew M

    frugal one,
    you will find that the Hyundai i30 actually drinks around 1.5L LESS/100k than the yaris and mazda 2 class vehciles

    but i do agree that LPG is by far the way to go to overcome the steep petrol prices.

    Did you guys know that when they fitted a decent LPG system fitted to a Ford Territory (like the ones expected to be fitted to the orion range) that a the Territory was cheaper to fuel than a Toyota Prius!!!!

    it also means no power decrease and in some cases a power INCREASE plus you can still drive a realistic sized car.
    Also by the time you add LPG to a Territory for eg it would still be no dearer than a Prius

  • Andrew M

    hey 280ZX,
    when you head up to bundy can you bring me back a few jerry cans of fuel?

    Cheers

  • Peak Oil

    Glen

    Just to reply to your comments:

    If oil companies are creating a shortage – this will only increase the price of fuel.

    There are millions of barrels (actually billions) of oil in storage. I don’t know what Australia’s figures are – but I do have the US figures –

    The US has an estimated 2.6 billion barrels of oil in it’s inventory. Last year at the same time, inventories were 125 million barrels. If the US stops importing any oil – it’s inventory will last 50 days – I’ll repeat that … 50 days. That’s how much is consumed domestically within the US. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/gifs/Fig11.gif

    OPEC decided in December 2007 to maintain its existing production quotas, noting that, in its view, the global oil market continued to be well supplied.

    The question is – are they maintain its existing production quotas to increase the price – or are they just unable to increase the extraction of oil from the ground.

    If they are increasing the price of oil artificially – they run the risk of losing the market all together as it created a market for bio fuels.

    Either way – it’s all pointing to higher fuel prices. As I said earlier – and I know that sound crazy – but I really think we are looking at $5 fuel in two years.

  • Tony

    By this time next year, $1.50 a litre might seem cheap. Either that, or we would have gotten used to $1.50 a litre, just as we have gotten used to $1.30 a litre a year ago.

  • Peak Oil

    Adam (Aka Mada) – there is a lot that governments can do:

    Stop wasting money on old warships for the Navy and pump some money into the best asset this country have – CSIRO. Let those guys come up with some ideas that we can sell (export) and make money to buy new warships.

    Put a tax on high fuel consumption engines – This will force people to use more fuel efficient cars.

    Get local councils to build/design suburbs that do not require a car to get around. If you live in any outer suburb in Australia – you need a car you get to work – get to the shops or go out for entertainment. With better design – it would not require someone to use the car all the time.

  • http://caradvice Alex

    The best thing that could happen for the cities would be for the fuel to hit $6 per litre. That will get people out of cars and in public transit and onto 2 wheeled vehicles. The building of new tunnels, bridges, highways and roads is fundamentally flawed.

  • ford freak

    a way that u can save som cash on the petrol bill is by doing litle mods to ur car for eg:air inductions give better fuel ecconomy, exhaust makes the engine breath better=more km’s on a tank=saving in pocket, litle things like that help out in a big way

  • Nick

    I think we should concentrate on diesel…

    Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know, diesel is the resulting byproduct of the making of petrol.

    This should mean the cost of diesel production would be minimal compared the cost of producing petrol.

    why is it more expensive than ULP?

  • Bavarian Missile

    Maybe we should all just change the compression of our engines and all run on AV GAS! Im sure thats still cheaper!Plus it smells great……..

  • Andrew M

    Peak oil,
    the government has already implemented some of your suggestions.

    they are now going to slug you on vehicles that arent environmentally friendly ie drink more fuel.

    also here in QLD there is one estate that does promote itself as residents being able to walk to everything. and its not a 300house estate, it is massive with apparently 15yrs of development left in it.
    it has a Uni and absolutely massive shopping centre all incorporated. also soon to include hospital etc aswell

    Alex,
    if the government put prices upto $6 per L for eg imagine what would happen for businesses. we would also be paying for it through our extra grocery costs etc.

    i for one can not work with out my vehicle and there are many like my selves that would not see that as a sensible move

    Once again LPG anyone HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    then we say bye bye to the world oil governing body.

  • Frugal One

    Time to move to Venezuela, petrol is US$0.17 C E N T S per US-GALLON,[3.785L] that =’s AUS$0.05cpl!!!

    Yes its subsdised by the GovCo big time, this is what happen when the GovCo evev THINKS of putting the price up:

    “When Venezuela raised fuel prices in 1989 as part of an austerity move, it pushed up bus fares and crystallized anger among the poor, setting off riots. Soldiers and police clashed with rioters, leaving more than 300 people dead, according to official estimates. Human-rights groups put the toll much higher.”

    Venezuela also is well know as “Miss World Factory”.

    Time to move? :-)

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Peak Oil

    Nick – I agree with you – diesel is our best short term solution. But it comes from oil so it too will become expensive. The best thing about diesel is that you can go more km per litre.
    And yes – why is diesel more expensive than petrol? Diesel takes less refinement than petrol – so you would think that diesel would be cheaper to manufacture.

    Alex – could you imagine fuel at $6 and only a couple of cars on the road. It would be like the traffic levels of the 1950′s. We would have all these roads everywhere – but no train lines in places where people need them. We could even see in 10 years governments ripping up roads to build new railways. The last railway to be built in Melbourne was in 1932. City is a bit different now. We really need to look at public transport in all capital cities.

    Let’s hope that some boffins somewhere in the world design a new power source that’s really cheap and environmentally friendly and these issue will not arise.

  • 280zx

    No worries Andrew M but it wont be fuel ill be filling the jerry cans with (well sort of fuel)anybody want to chip in for fuel and ill bring back some bundy !

  • Peak Oil

    Andrew M

    Good to hear Qld is showing the rest of Australia how to do it. Hope people here in Vic take notes.

    On you last comment about LPG – or Liquid Petroleum Gas. As this is a by-product in the manufacture of petroleum (petrol) – how does that help?

    And yes – if fuel goes to $6 – transport will be hit very hard. This would mean that food will need to be grown locally as the cost of trucking it in would be to costly. $6 fuel radically changes the world we live in.

  • Glenn

    People are going to be driving petrol powered cars for a very long time, I for one will keep driving my VE HSV R8 no matter what the cost, thats my choice,its all relative to the cost of living, everything else will go up due to transport costs, but so will wages so its all proportional.
    Those nannys on this site that get off on cars like a Prirus need to go and do some knitting somewhere else and stop polluting an enthuiasts site with your crap.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=674330849 lazybones

    “Plus it smells great……..”

    Bav, I’m very concerned about your state of mind!! Have you been hanging out near the airport again?? :)

  • 280zx

    I have told you time and time again BM stop hanging around the glue factories!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey Lazybones……….you don’t spend enough time on here any more!! Although I seem to spend a lot of time at the Airports its always dropping someone off…..no sniffing!!!!!
    We have a special license that enables us to buy it in 44 gallon drums though ,so no need for the Airport anymore!
    Thanks for your concern though!!hahaha

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    “Those nannys on this site that get off on cars like a Prirus (sic) need to go and do some knitting somewhere else and stop polluting an enthuiasts (sic) site with your crap.”

    I don’t think there is a single person on this site that ‘gets off’ on the Toyota Prius (Toyota Paul may be an exception :) ). There are, however, people who are looking to the future and realise that we all need to do what we can to reduce our consumption of oil. The Prius is one way, changing to diesel is another or driving less is another. This will help oil to stay around longer while we come up with other methods of personal transport that don’t consume dino juice.

    Keeping oil reserves around longer will mean that when someone wants to take their Phase III or HQ Monaro for a spin in 50 years time, it will still go. If we use it all up now, what will happen to these great pieces of automotive history…

    “I for one will keep driving my VE HSV R8 no matter what the cost”

    Sure, that is your choice. My choice is to believe that you are a bogan. See, choice is good in this world. But when oil runs out, we won’t have that choice anymore.

    And anyway, this site is a site for anyone interested in cars, not just those who love low-tech pushrod V8s. Being a car enthusiast doesn’t mean you just love fast cars, it means appreciating all sorts of cars, fast or slow, big or small.

  • Bavarian Missile

    280ZX……….you still getting over XMAS and New Year!!I was only thinking where you had got to this morning!

    You haven’t been trying GOOGLE EARTH me in the Pool again have you…….hehehe

  • Glen

    The best short term answer for the shortage of oil (which there isn’t) is more likely to be ethanol or methanol. Now I said short term because the best long term solution will be hydrogen. I dont think electric powered cars are viable for at least 30 years mainly because the whole infrastructure of cars is the internal combustion engine. If we all changed to electric cars then motor mechanics would have to basically be retrained over night. Plus the range of an electric powered vehicle is still no where near good enough for countries like ours or the USA.

    The production of alcohol based fuels can be done right now but we’ll need dedicated crops of sugar & corn to do it. Hence why we have E10 & E85 fuels now. It wont be long until there is pure ethanol at bowsers & cars able to use it. The biggest hurdle with alcohol fuels is the amount of water that can get in the fuel.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Supercujo…..I’m with you!

    Ive given up even looking at what it costs!

    Oh you have missed TP new and best mate………Mikka and UK BOY!!!!

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    Ethanol IS NOT THE solution to the world’s oil shortage.

    To produce ethanol, you need to change over previously fertile ground that produced food for us humans to a paddock that produces fuel for cars. Where does the food that used to be produced get grown then?

    With the world’s population growing still, converting food producing land area to producing fuel is just plain silly. All it will do is drive up the price of crops which will make fuel expensive and also our food.

    And using feed crops to produce ethanol is extremely inefficient, corn only produces 3100-3900 litres of ethanol per hectare because only the kernel can be used for fermentation and sugar only 5300-6500 litres per hectare but can only be grown in tropical areas. If ethanol is to be used as a serious fuel, more work need to be done on the processing of high cellulose plant matter such as those from hemp, poplar and wild grasses. The bonus is that hemp and the wild grasses can grow in a wider range of environment that corn and sugar can grow making it easier to find suitable land. But as I said, it all relies on better technology that hasn’t arrived yet.

  • Kinetic

    Alex,
    The Public transport system sucks balls man! have you ever caught a train at Peak hour in Sydney? its always like a sardine can!
    How do you expect more people to catch the train when the system can’t even handle the load of people who already catch the train every day?
    Buses are even worse and the routes they take are bizzare in nature.
    I think we’ll all just have to quite work and go on the doll…it pays less but we’d save more!

  • Peak Oil

    Glen said –
    ” The best short term answer for the shortage of oil (which there isn’t)”

    Where is the evidence? The only thing I can see is OPEC saying they have plenty of oil – but that does not reflect the actual real data showing oil supplies in decline, such as Mexico’s Cantarell oil field declining over 15% pa. The Cantarell oil field is the third largest in the world.
    I cannot find any info out there to back anyones claims that there is plenty of oil. All I can find is oil consumption going up and supply falling.

    “its all relative to the cost of living, everything else will go up due to transport costs, but so will wages so its all proportional”

    In Economics it’s called inflation. When you have inflation you have less jobs. If you still have a job – you can buy expensive dino juice for your VE HSV R8.

  • Anthonii

    Lets face it, we are all soon going to have to bore holes in our car floors and make like the flinstones…

  • Spitfire

    Peak Oil your posts are claptrap. To you and all the other doom and gloom merchants out there, oil is not running out. If it was government’s all around the world would be rationing it to keep a supply for two important reasons, defence and food production.

    We can also be sure of one thing, and that is that some nerd in a white coat in a laboratory will discover an alternative. Dont underestimate the ability of the human race to find a solution.

    Right now that V10 Volkswagen Toureg is looking good.

  • 280zx

    God BM you read my thoughts better than i do ? Yeah cant remember much so must have been good! Petrol around the corner $1.42 hmmmm? And be greatfull people with your coles and safeway vouchers Haaaaa NOT!

  • Glen

    Supercujo, I said its the best SHORT TERM solution. Not THE solution. I think methanol would actually be more viable to produce considering it is made from wood pulp, so waste wood from timber mills could be used for the production of methanol. But in anycase no matter what other energy source you use instead of oil based something drastic will change. If we all drove plug-in electric cars the amount of energy needed from power stations would be increased, so more pollution there (although nuclear power plants would help there but then everyone gets a bit funny when you mention those words) so if you want change you’ll have to sacrifice something.

    And as I said b4 Hydrogen is more or less where we need to head. The technology is not far away to use it (Honda are releasing a hydrogen fuel cell car) and it will have the least environmental impact of all considering the only byproduct is water which can then be reconstituted into hydrogen & oxygen again.

    OPEC is the one saying there is a shortage, to drive up prices.

  • Peak Oil

    Spitfire

    I’m with you – let all hope it’s claptrap.

    Glen

    Opec have said there is PLENTY of oil in the ground – but maintain its existing production quotas, noting that, in its view, the global oil market continued to be well supplied.

    ———-

    Do we have lot’s of oil or are we running out?

    There are plenty of people saying they THINK there is lots of oil and there are people who THINK we are running out. I’m not really interest in anyone opinion – what are the facts?

    The only hard facts I can find is a world decline in oil output from all oil fields.

  • Tom

    There always seem to be “experts” that are polarised on controversial topics, and most people seem to have wedged themselves into a particular point of view and refuse to budge.

    Some of the suggestions here are laughable and suggest to me we, as a country, are in trouble if these comments are representative of the views held by our policy makers.

    Any alternative fuel chosen as the only successor to so-called fossil fuels will immediately become more expensive as a result.

    Just as well they haven’t invented a car that runs on water, otherwise we’d all be screwed.

    I think the approach to minimising our reliance on fossil fuels should, and will, be multi-faceted. From more economical fuel burners, to alternative fuels, to alternative transport.

    On the topic of public transport:

    Simply saying that we should raise the price of petrol so that we all use pubic transport (pun intended) would be fine if our transport systems were up to scratch. But they aren’t. Nothing like European systems, even in dodgy Eastern European, former communist countries like Poland.

    They build something 10 years too late, let it fall into disrepair and forget to factor in growth, eventually causing congestion on roads AND public transport such as trains. Is this not the pattern of public transport in Australia in general?

  • W Wilkin

    I have heard the Howard federal government pushed a bill just before the 2K rebate on the LPG conversions to raise the excise of LPG 2 or 5% per year for the next 5 to 7 years (one of the reasons LPG has gone higher all of a sudden)so if you are using 1.7 litres of LPG to 1 litre of petrol then the LPG isnt going to be that far in front unless petrol goes to $6.00/ litre. Then we will have a HSV or FPV to start and roll out of the garage and back in again and a 83 diesel gemini to go anywhere else.
    Petrol in Iraq was 1.5c/litre before the USA arrived to see what the problem was?
    Come on Rudd cancel this Howard bill and stop robbing peter to pay paul.

  • Tony

    Petrol at $1.50 a litre (or higher) will probably mean the falling sales of the local dinosaurs of Ford Falcons, Holden Commodores, etc. will fall even further. Time for them to pack up and leave.

  • Shane

    I don’t know all…but what I do know is all the doom and gloom posts above are only speculation until actual facts are shown. But in reality I don’t think oil is running out any time soon and there are only supply problems pushing up prices. Keep in mind the price of oil rises due to people freaking out at “possible” supply problems like Iran, Nth Korea, Pakistan, further possible China growth, possible cyclone etc. And there are LARGE untapped oil supplies globally but you have to hunt if you want to read about it. Russia has claimed large reserves under the arctic. Reading the UK times online today an article reads of a possible major reserve under Greenland containing an estimated 110 billion barrels and a link from that story reads a fifth of the worlds oil is under the Arctic. It would make sense large oil companies and oil producing nations keeping discoveries seceret as the oil price would drop.

  • reality

    First of all a clarification to Andrew M’s post at 11:22 a.m. in that the Hyundai i30 is more frugal than the Yaris and Mazda 2. The diesel version of the i30 uses less than the Yaris and the Mazda 2. The petrol i30 still consumes more than the Yaris and Mazda 2.

    Second is more of an observation on a recent trip to Spain in that I thought people there seemed more practical in their choice of vehicles. Most people seemed to drive small cars with diesel engines or small petrol engines. It looked, to me at least, that they (the normal average Jose/Maria) chose their vehicles based on what they actually needed. With fuel costs being what they are in Europe, it probably isn’t a big surprise. Maybe that is a possible future for us here in Australia if petrol keeps going up.

  • Sam

    Look guys, be realistic. I think, if anything, the excise should be raised not lowered.

    There should also be MANDATORY greatly increased average fuel economy quotas on all new cars sold here.

    Not only for Global warming (Which I don’t think humans have caused if it is happening at all) but also to reduce usage and price of a finite resource …oil.

    Everyone acts like you need big powerful cars, you don’t, you WANT them.

    The Toyota Corolla is bigger inside, faster, longer lasting then a Holden EH, the family car of the 60′s

    Come on be realistic.

  • Andrew M

    Peak oil,
    well i should say perhaps we wouldnt need the world oil body as much if we used the oil we got more effectively

    yes i know how LPG is made. there are actually 2 ways it can be made. bugger all of our supply is made from the by-product of petroleum.
    it can also be made from Natural gas and that is something in which our country is rich in
    Here is a Quote i have pulled to back up my claims
    Quote………..
    “Australia has plentiful natural supplies of LPG and in 2005 exported 1.6 million tonnes (about 3 billion litres).”

    sorry but LPG anyone?
    it is a far better NOW alternative than anything else out there in my mind

    W Wilkin,
    mate for starters LPG consumption isnt anywhere near 1.7L LPG to 1L petrol. if it was then yes it would be hardly worth it.
    also the excise bill on LPG has been in a long time. I read about it ages ago.
    it was actually meant to have been started around 12 months ago i think it was but they have delayed it and changed the stratogy for the way they are going to introduce it. they new way they will introduce it is less sudden than they had planned originally aswell

    i still dont think excise is being applied YET but correct me if im wrong.

    Reality,
    yes mate i was referring to the diesel i30 because thats what i thought we were referencing, as Frugal mentioned diesel. but in all, the larger diesel does consume less than the smaller petrol cars so the point is still relevant

    sorry if i confused………

    soooooooooo LPG anyone??

  • No Name

    Hi Bavaria – you been wallowing round the pool again (couldn’t see you on google, sun went in when the butt came out). Oh the thought of it!

    Fuel prices…the only way is up. Its those wealthy oil barons getting greedy…they just want to bling up their TOYOTA Landcruisers a bit more. The Aussie fuel prices seem to be a bit more volatile (meaning the ‘unstable, for Bav M.)than the UK rates, probably as its cheaper. Ours is equivalent to $2.58 now.

    Hi Mika – did you get the Toyota spin there. Tee Hee Snigger snigger.

    see yah
    Cupid Stunt, Aka No Name

  • Sexythang

    solution is to limit china and india’s growth or pray they pray they go into recession faster.

  • Steve

    Diesel is more expensive because the oil companies have had to refine diesel better than it use to be in order for it to work in modern diesel engines as well as cut the nasty gasses it creates down to a suitable amount.

    I’m not too versed on these gasses, but basically diesel is a lot cleaner now than it was 10-15 years ago.

    I don’t understand the comment on going LPG and not taking part in the oil companies games with fuel prices. Liquified PETROLEUM Gas is a by-product, and as such, is also affected by oil prices…. otherwise it would still be sitting at 15-20cents instead of the price I saw it for the other day…. 60 cents

    Which is how much I was paying for petrol ten years ago.

    The Corolla cannot outlast an EH. Impossible, not because the Corolla is crap but because cars back then where made with a little pride. These days everything is made to cost. You’d be lucky to get 10 years out of a new Corolla. My mate’s girlfriends year old model is falling to bits already. And she looks after it well.

    One of my clients has a EK that has been in his family since new. Still looks as good as the day it was bought. Engine is silky smooth. Column shift still crunches nicely into first. He’s spent less money and time on it in the last 5 years than my mates girl has on her two services and non-warranty fixes that Toyota don’t want to know about.

    Yes it’s true, everyone wants bigger cars. We don’t need them. But what about the people that do need them? I know I’d rather drive from Sydney to Wauchope in a Falcon than a Honda Jazz. Why? Because the little Honda can’t make it up a hill in my street. I’d hate to think of how hard it would be to drive at 110km/h on the Pacific Hwy across Mooney Mooney bridge with the nice buffeting winds. While my rather “planted” Falcon will be fine.

    I’d like a Jazz for around town. Makes perfect sense. But I want it to be a Falcon when I need the power, stability and comfort.

    Back to LPG. It makes sense for Australian cars to all have LPG. The people that say there’s a power loss. Unless your drag racing, I highly doubt Joe Average is going to notice that it’s harder to pull away from the bus at the lights now that he’s on LPG. Please…

    This country has tonnes of the stuff. It’s cheap. It’s better for your engine, it’s cleaner too.

    But like anything else, it’s still not a long term solution.

    Steve

  • Glen

    Well until australia has a better public transport structure, we will use our cars over excessivly. But people need to buy cars they need. Although I shouldnt talk I just bought an XR6 Turbo, but i do a fair bit of country driving and I couldnt find a Turbo ute in my price range so got the sedan. But at least if I have the Falcon now, if I start a family in the next few years I’m set, no worrying about space or comfort. But for those people in northern Sydney mostly who drive around in Landcruisers, Prados, Pajero’s or Patrols that have never seen dirt. FFS you are the biggest problem and I’m betting that the vast majority of them are the ones saying people (apart from themsleves) should be driving more economical cars. Unless you have 4 or 5 kids get a falcon or commodore, or if you only have 1 or 2 get a corolla or Focus. Don’t buy a Prius your money is better spent on a diesel focus, peuguot or VW.

  • Andrew M

    Steve,
    i will firstly re-quote myself…….

    “bugger all of our LPG supply comes from the by-product of petroleum”
    “Australia has plentiful natural supplies of LPG and in 2005 exported 1.6 million tonnes (about 3 billion litres).”

    if that wouldnt mean we would lessen the need for the oil giants then i am missing something.

    i cant remember where exactlly it is but i have been told that here in australia we are continually burning the stuff off cause we have not enough demand for it.

    i think the price goes up with Petrol just simply because it can. its a way fuel stations can profit from it. the focus is all on the unleaded and no one complains about what they are doing with LPG prices as it is still under half the price anyway

    if you put a decent LPG system on your vehicle like the systems that are coming in now you wont find any power difference what so ever. in fact i read that when fitted to a SS commodore they actually recorded a slightly increased power output.
    also of course the actual consumption reduces greatly to the point where it isnt drinking that much more than a petrol equivalent.
    the same system was also fitted to a ford territory where they recorded a lower fuel cost for the territory than a Prius when they tested them over the same route

  • Andrew M

    Glen,
    perhaps people who want to purchase a 4X4 should have to warrent their reason for having one? in the same way you have to qualify for a gun licence?

    just a thought……

    perhaps they should be put on a seperate licence/rego category so that a prospective owner must prove themselves?

    awaiting 4X4 owners to fire up………..

  • Watto_Cobra

    I know what you mean Andrew.M

    A year ago, a workmate was planning to replace his written off VT Commodore with a Commodore or Falcon. But his fiance insisted on a 4WD/SUV and they ended up with a Prado. She said “to feel safer”??

    He says it’s been a good vehicle, except he’s paying more for tyres, fuel, etc. He goes fishing and says there was only one occasion when he actually needed a 4WD to get into a spot, and would prefer to have bought a sedan.

  • Andrew M

    Watto,
    the funny thing is 4X4′s typically are less safe than some large sedans. most have an increased risk of rollover and they offer far less pedestrian safety, and that is one they are starting to place focus on now days too when they rate a car

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com Supercujo

    4WDs wouldn’t be so popular if they didn’t enjoy the commercial car status that they currently enjoy.

  • Sam

    In response to Steve
    “The Corolla cannot outlast an EH. Impossible, not because the Corolla is crap but because cars back then where made with a little pride. These days everything is made to cost. You’d be lucky to get 10 years out of a new Corolla.”

    Were you around in the 70′s? A 10 year old car then was ready for the scrap heap. A scratch would instantly rust. Boots would leak and rust out the floor. Sure you could keep them on the road but you were replacing major components or it would look and drive like crap.

    A 10year old Corolla should be rust free, still have a good engine. Plus a new one is cheap to buy so you may just trade it in.

    In 1977 I made the mistake of buying a HQ V8 it was already an old car. EHs were almost all rusty and very old looking. The only good ones were the restored ones.

    Well that’s how I remember it.

    As for the performance of a Jazz, they go fine, Much better then an EH Holden and no-one complained then. No A/C then either a long drive was hell in summer.

  • No Name

    Here we have a CO2 based ‘Rego’ the more CO2 the more to pay annually. Theres pressure to increase the heavy polluters as nuch as $4700 per year for driving say big 4×4′s, and sports cars.

  • Watto_Cobra

    No Name, I assume you’ve converted to $AUD. If so, OUCH!! $4700 for rego would maybe keep the people who never see dirt out of big 4WDs. I pay about $430 for rego.

    And over $2/L for fuel? Ouch again. Good thing UK isn’t the size of Australia, with such long travel involved.

  • No Name

    Yep Watto – $4700′s correct but thats only proposed at the moment. Lowest Rate is $0 highest is $505. Theres much pressure to get people out of their Chelsea Tractors. Apparently Hybrids are the thing in London town as they are exempt from the congestion charge. Taxis are also exempt so people are registering their BM’ Mercs etc to private cabs. It costs less than £100 p.a.

    The diesel market here has risen from 18% to 40% of cars in 5years, it had to with fuel at £2.55/litre

  • Watto_Cobra

    £2.55/litre? Does that work out to over $5AUD/L? I’d heard they had some sort of congestion charge for central London.

  • No Name

    Watto – got the currenccy wrong mate, its £1.10 or $258/litre. Londons congestion charge is £8/day soon to be £25/day for cars over 225g/km of CO2.

    Coming to a city near you soon… a ta guess

  • David

    Hi Peak oil,
    Broadmeadows to Craigieburn extension in MELB was opened last year.A lot of mistakes were made over the decades eg Glen Waverley line stopping where it did.A relative of mine lobbied for setting aside a reservation to extend the line.At the time 1950s it was dismissed,’Melbourne would not grow any further’should have been extended beyond Stud Road into Knox.
    Too often we are governed by the shortsighted.A road tunnel
    is seen as viable costing 100′s of millions + tolls yet a narrow low tech rail tunnel is seen as prohibitive.
    I’ll hang on to my ageing cars & wait for the next big tech advancement.
    Agree with Sam in the 70′s 10 year old rust buckets were the norm.
    Replaced areas of floor of an EJ wagon in 1980(first car cast off from parents) my oldest 92 Subaru is now the same age,no comparison.Feels like it will go forever.
    I thought we imported the low sulphur Diesel which is partly why it is so expensive.Yet we export LPG & CNG for next to nothing.
    Agree with AndrewM,LPG ought to be our Diesel.
    Diesel engines in cars are far too expensive as is the fuel itself you will be hard pressed to recoup the cost.
    Closing thought,Given that OIL COMPANIES are rebirthing themselves as ENERGY COMPANIES & that they burn off LPG
    how is the price hike in LPG justified?Also why oh why is it not used to run a turbine for power generation to contribute to the energy grid?

  • Glen

    The whole debate about charging a higher tax for cars that produce more CO2 is stupid, considering CO2 is a natural gas and cars contribute less than 14% of the CO2 emissions in the world. That is another knee-jerk reaction tax so the government is looking like its doing something when it isn’t.

    I think a special license for 4×4/SUV is a good way to go, and not just a theory test but you have to be able to go off roading safely. I’m sure that will weed out a few of the urban landcruisers.

  • Andrew M

    Hi David,
    its good to see someone else understands LPG and how it would be so beneficial to our country. it would save many of the problems people keep whinging about.

    ive always wondered how the price increase of can be justified aswell. it is a natural product to OZ, we export a hell of a lot of it , and we are constantly burning it off due to no use.

    people go on about Unleaded fuel price profiteering when LPG suppliers are worse. why? well cause they can be and no one says anything cause the LPG car drivers are still halving their fuel bill by using it.

    a read a few years back that Taxis were complaining about it. i thought you beauty they might have a watch dog on that now too (like everything) but what the government did to shut them up was de-regulate the taxi fares meaning they could simply pass their extra costs to the consumer.

  • W Wilkin

    Andrew M this is from the NRMA blog sight

    LPG vs. Petrol

    So you’ve done all your calculations and decided to convert your car to LPG like over 70,000 other Australians. It sounds good in theory and the government rebate of $2000 is a great help. The fuel figures show your savings in dollars will have your conversion paid off within a year or two depending on your vehicle and the mileage done. But have you got all the facts?
    Environmental impact

    The environment is another winner in the change you have made by lowering greenhouse emissions. The Australian Greenhouse Office website states that the mass of CO2 gas released of the exhaust pipe by the burning of one litre of fuel is:
    » 2.3 kg for Petrol
    » 1.5 kg for LPG.
    LPG = Less kilometres per litre

    You can expect a 20-30 per cent increase in gas consumption over petrol per kilometre because the lower energy content of gas requires more to be burned in the engine compared with petrol. For example, a six cylinder Commodore achieves 10.9 litres per 100 km on petrol compared to 16 litres per 100km when run on LPG.
    Excise
    (or about 1.6 to 1.1 (99.2C to $1.61))
    There is no government excise until July 2011. But then the price of LPG will gradually rise over 5 years.

    The excise will increase as follows:
    » 1 July 2011 increase of 2.5%
    » 1 July 2012 increase of 5.0%
    » 1 July 2013 increase of 7.5%
    » 1 July 2014 increase of 10.00%
    » 1 July 2015 increase of 12.5%

    In knowing all this, is or was a change to LPG worth it?

    Do all the figures add up and, despite the cost savings, has your vehicle’s power and torque suffered? It is less efficient when towing or carrying heavy loads, especially on long trips and going up hills?

  • Andrew M

    w wilkins,
    it must have been on another posting that i went further into LPG.

    the vapour injected systems that are now here actually dont mean an increase in consumption by very much at all. when tested on a ford territory they didnt even record an increase by 1L (nearly but not quite.

    well has your vehicles torque suffered? actually no here is a quote that proves NRMA doesnt know what the hell they are talking about and they are probably to blame for the many ill informed people out there.

    Quote (from a reputable LPG source)
    “On Autogas, torque is available at lower engine revs, which aids driveability – particularly in stop/start city driving. In some cases total torque is actually increased.”

    I know the savings are real because i have a Dedicated gas falcon running the older system and i dont go anywhere near as high as 16L/100k. when i switched to it the money i forked out each week at the bowser was instantly halved and that takes into account any extra consumption.

    co2 emissions will still be better than that of petrol either way you look at it.
    did NRMA tell people that LPG also reduces other toxic emissions by up to 90%? not just the co2 but the other gases that come from a tail pipe that are linked to many illnesses and diseases including cancer?

    also LPG has the same energy content (if not better) as unleaded. its not the energy content of the fuel thats the problem…. its the old school technology that feeds it into the motor. its like a carby unleaded motor V an EFI motor if you like.

    but at last the “EFI” versions of LPG have arrived and it is set to feature in the dedicated LPG falcon range

    the same territory with LPG example i gave before recorded lower running costs than a prius when they were run together

  • Andrew M

    also excise of 12.5% on LPG wont put it anywhere near $1.50

  • Gibbo

    Its not only petrol that is increasing. LPG has shot up approx 10-15c per litre over the past few months. It wasnt that long ago that I was paying 59c per litre for gas and now at the same servo Im parying 75c per litre. Gas is now more expensive than what petrol was when I had my vehicle converted to LPG.

  • Andrew M

    Gibbo,
    ive never seen gas anywhere near 75c

    that is just blatent profiteering by the servo if you are paying that.
    anyhow even at 75c you would still be getting a better deal.
    we are still getting it for 60c as you say where i see it

  • Watto_Cobra

    Andrew.M, do you know for sure if Orion will feature DI gas? I sure hope so.

    Gas in my area went from 50-55c/L to 65c seemingly just for the holidays. But it’s still much cheaper to run my old EB on gas than petrol.

    I paid $1000 for the car a few years ago already converted, so I didn’t have to recoup the costs of a conversion, and I am miles in front.

  • Andrew M

    ive asked many of people who seem to be in the know and they say yes it is coming with the orion.

    i know ford were planning to have it at the start of ’05 (i think it was) but was delayed due to copyright issues in being able to use the system.