But plugging them into the wall just shifts the energy requirements/pollution to the coal burning power stations, which are even dirtier.

Until most of the electricity grid is clean, renewable power, plug-ins are pointless.

I know what you mean Andrew.M. Celebs trying to look like they give a crap. I wonder if they actually anything about their so-called green car.

Haha, spot on.

Coal power plants are in actual fact more efficient and less dirty than petrol or diesel engines.

Using a combination of electrostatic precipitators (fly ash) and gas scrubbers (desulfurisation), the harmful emissions from a coal fired power plant can be minimised to a level much less than a car.

This place is anti-Toyota, pandering to its Ford readers… anything Toyota is attacked, this being a shining example. I was going to say myself that coal power stations are more efficient then a car, this is just common sense, readers here however are in a world of their own.

If they make hybrids in all their range it would be fantastic because no one will be trapped in buying a prius

Mikka you stole my name for the crapodore! Yeh quality and reliable arn’t exactly words used at Holden.
LATEST NEWS: Shell has just purchased a stake in GM as they looked at how much oil the crapodore drops and also how much fuel its uses, so they want to expand production to build their profits! Lol.
An eg is I have a mate who bought a VE SS when it came out and he is on his 3rd free engine, you know things are bad when you are on a first name basis with the staff at the dealership

ha ha ha sorry about the spelling mistake above ^^^^

TP + ToyotaPaul = Same person….

Paul, this post is not been attacked by Ford fans..

BTW paul, did you have a good chistmas?…SORRY I forgot you worship Toyota. We can’t bow down to Toyota’s HQ like you every day so grow up!

Hey Watto. I hear what your saying but here in Euroland most power stations are gas powered. There are masses of wind farms,a few hydro, wave and tidal are being built. Problem with the Aussie Gov’mt is they have masses of brown coal (the worst) to burn and don’t really give a toss about the big whole in the Ozone above melting the ice caps and giving you skin cancer.

Theres plenty of need for Hybrids in cities. Just wait for congestion charging in Melbourne, Sydney …
Next target $150/barrel Oil price resulting in a $1.80/litre fuel. Just wait

TOYOTA PAUL….come out come out wherever you are. Hope Toyota Claus got you nothing for XMAS, better check your Toyota tree as tad unreliable. Better get a Orion pressie. Or maybe Commodore pressie Or maybe Aurion pressie……always better to support an Aussie first. HOI HOI HOI and not chopsticks chicken choi mein!

Hahaha Yes Im embaressing myself guys… Im the one who has been saying per distance travelled that a internal combustion engine is more efficient then a power plant producing the same energy (mind you its only going to get better which stricter regulations and/or other energy sources). What people fail to realise here, no doubt because they have no idea of these alternative sources of engine power because their beloved Fords havent invested anything tangible in it, is that sure hybrids aernt great but its a stepping stone towards cars which are purely powered by hybrids. By having plug in hybrids they can ease into the phase where all cars are plug in, essentially phasing it in (which addresses this BS arguemtn about overloading the grid). So while Toyota are investing in the future for themselves which on a complementary note is investing in the worlds future, Ford and Holden are investing in bigger V8s. Hmmm who should really be attacked here? I can already predict a response to this, as is the nature of people here, small minded and very very very predictable (this is most true for NM)

TP – Ford Motor Co Yanky Land recently released thier first alternative source of engine power in the name of a hybrid so yes they have jumped on the bandwagon aswell but guess WHOM they PURCHASED the TECHNOLOGY from because they haven’t got the EXPERTISE nor DOLLARS to develope it for themselves … yeap that’s right – Ford brought it from Toyota.

Better still, Nissan also released thier first hybrid vehicle onto the American market called the Ultima and it to is also powered by an aged Toyota hybrid system.

Seems Toyota is making a few dimes on the side with this tech and just by sales alone.

Holden and Ford would be better off developing a car that is Solar Powered.. as cars in the solar challenge each year can manage 80Km/h quite easily

TP,
you obviously have no idea of what happens outside of toyotas media world.

did you know that ford was the first to release a drivable hydrogen/hybrid vehicle? or that they are leading the way with hydrogen studies in australia? or that ford are the only manufacturer in OZ to offer 2 different alternative fuels for a passenger vehicles?

i doubt you knew that cause it wont be in your toyota manuscript.

and to dumb it down……..
right here right now as said earlier if cars went plug in it wouldnt solve the green issue end of story.

No name,
up here in QLD we have a mighty rich surce of black coal (the bloody good stuff) and as far as i know it might even be the richest source in the world. down south is where the brown rubbish is. as far as i know we still export a hell of a lot of coal too.
cause there is still a hell of a lot left i cant see them getting out of it in a hurry.
imagine the impact on the economy if the mining industry was shut up over night……..the government must also tread very carefully for other reasons than green image

Andrew – study is one thing but actually DOING IT is an entire different ball game.

The fact remains – hybrid vehicles are undoubtedly the best way to go for ‘now’ but obviously not in the longer term.

Hydrogen is undoubtedly the best future alternative but so much more Research and Development is required to be performed before it becomes a genuine alternative and even when it does the chances are it will remain an expensive exercise for many years before it becomes finacially viable for the average joe.

Until then, hybrid vehicles remain the best alternative otherwise and more and more vehicle manufactuers are coming online at every passing year.

Some may critise Toyota for thier advancement in the technology but for some very convenient reason – most of those ctitics seem to forget the fact that Ford and GM are rapidly investing in the scheme aswell as they have (finally but a bit late) relised the shorter term viability of the programme.

That said, Toyota undoubtedly remains the worlds most advanced automotive manufactuer of the tech to the point that Ford now purchases it from them just so they could enter the arena while Nissan utilises aged Toyota systems so they can get into the market aswell.

It never ceases to amase me that if Ford or GM were the leaders of hybrid technology that all the Holden/Ford clowns would be blowing wind up thier arses but sense Toyota comfortably leads the field with all the others now playing nothing more then just a game of catch up – they get slammed … nothing more then just shear jealous dog attitude.

Get over yourselves wankers – even Ford and GM critised Toyota in the early days but now … gee wiz – haven’t they changed they attitude.

Really does go to show who the smarties and dummies are in the global market. No wonder why Toyota has become the top dog while Ford and GM continue down thier destructive paths.

And one last point buddy … if want to have a go at Toyota for hybrid tech then you bloody better have a go at you beloved Ford/GM companies aswell moron because they are now trying thier damn hardest to catch up on lost ground.

It really must be a pain in the arse to have someone like myself shead a bit of light on the REAL AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY and not just the blind folded one some choose to travel just to satisfy thier own attitude.

So answer me this … if hybrid is so crap – why the hell is Ford 9and other manufactuers) now paying big bikkies to Toyota just to obtain thier technology/systems !!

Go on wanker .. answer that one for me !!

First of all Glenn…..see that little red x on the top right of your screen…..click that.Now you don’t have to listen to us all dribble on!

To Paul and Mikka……….you guys seem like extremists yourself when it comes to Toyota!

My point is not just fuel and batteries but the manufacturing side of cars! What you don’t think of all those gases that get spewed into the atmosphere every year from the steel thats made in Japan ?? All the components that are made in China for them…..the cows that pump equally as many gases into the air so you can have leather seats in your Lexus!

Here is something I found for you from Ford!

“Top secret Ford plan: Recyclable vehicles
Piquette Project aims to ‘fight Toyota and everybody else and come out on top.’
The automaker has begun a secret research project in hopes of producing recyclable, environmentally friendly cars of the future.

The effort — known internally as the “Piquette Project,” after Ford’s famed Piquette Avenue factory in Detroit where the Model T was developed nearly a century ago — was launched last year by Chairman and CEO Bill Ford Jr. as part of his campaign to revive the company’s spirit of innovation.

“The goal is to help us do with products what we did with manufacturing at the Rouge Plant,” said Ford spokesman Jon Pepper, referring to the $2 billion environmentally friendly makeover of the Dearborn industrial complex.

Pepper said Ford hopes to show some of the first fruits of the Piquette Project by 2008, the 100-year anniversary of the Model T.

Bill Ford last year asked his top executives to create a cross-functional team loosely patterned after the one his great-grandfather, Henry Ford, assembled a century ago at the Piquette plant.

That team helped create the moving assembly line and developed the Model T, the car that made automobiles accessible to the masses.

Bill Ford’s goal is nearly as ambitious: develop renewable, clean and safe vehicles that would be both socially conscious and provide a competitive advantage in the marketplace.

By the middle of last year, Ford had assembled a group of what Pepper described as “the best thinkers in our company.” They were given a clean sheet of paper and told to tackle the tough issues of environmental sustainability, novel design and engineering and passenger safety.

Using a “war room” inside Ford’s world headquarters in Dearborn, the team began meeting in early summer under the direction of Tim O’Brien, vice president of corporate relations; Gerhard Schmidt, vice president of research and advanced engineering; Nancy Gioia, director of sustainable mobility technologies and hybrids; and William McDonough, an environmental consultant instrumental in developing the new Dearborn Truck Plant at the Rouge Complex.

Camilo Pardo, the designer of the Ford GT, was tapped to head the project’s design efforts.

“We thought it was important to get out of the demands of the regular product development cycle,” Pepper explained, though he added that senior product development executives like Derrick Kuzak have been kept apprised of the team’s work in order to make sure it is grounded in reality.

The existence of the Piquette Project was first revealed Sunday by Time magazine on its Web site. Bill Ford and his efforts to turn around Ford are the subject of a cover story reaching newsstands this week.

“Piquette helps institutionalize innovation,” Bill Ford told Time. “My goal is to fight Toyota and everybody else and come out on top.”

While most major automakers have teams of people assigned to look into the future and develop new vehicles and technology, the Ford effort is notable because the automaker is counting on innovation to return the struggling company to greatness.

Before Sunday, the existence of the Piquette Project was known only to those directly involved in the research and a handful of top executives.
Pepper said they will not be able to say much, both because of the need to protect the work from competitors and because it is still too soon to tell just what will come of the project. While it’s difficult to put a timetable on the project, the goal is to show some results by 2008.

“It could be vehicles and it could be elements of vehicles,” Pepper said, adding that the group is working on a variety of projects, including ways to make vehicles safer, stronger, lighter and cheaper.

Rival Toyota Motor Corp. also has made mitigating the automobile’s impact on the environment a central goal of its advanced research efforts.

“Bill Ford was talking about that issue long before Toyota was,” Pepper said. ”

I guess Toyota would need to look at their own backyard first cause Im sure they themselves have contributed a hell of a lot of the polluted air in Japan over the years!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the delay but my daughter has been having her birthday party!

gee settle down Mikka,
you must be red in the face after that long winded excursion……..

The main thing that i find funny about hybrid technology is that there are many small diesel cars out there with out electric motors that drink less than these hybrids.

even if ford or GM had a massive fleet of hybrids i still wouldnt jump on board. I do know that behind the scenes ford and GM are also right into hybrids now but it just seems toyota is the one that always takes the spot light. why did you not mention Honda in your rave?
GM is actually right up toyotas arse with hybrid technology too if you cared to follow, and i think that what hurts you toyota followers most is that the once big, dirty, and percieved dumb GM has progressed such a long way in such a short period of time.

hybrids are not the BEST way to go for now. how can they be when they cant deliver any real sort of power and also when plenty of small diesel cars are right beside them.
I know hybrids are and will get better but the argument was that plugins etc will purely shift the focus from the auto industry to another area.

to me a small diesel or LPG vehicle seems to be the way to go for now especially if you are not a big inner city driver.

Andrew check your mail!

Talk about laughable comments by some on here.

Some here state that we eventually go down the road of electric cars that simply plug in into household power points or whatnot. So we reduce greenhouse gases from cars as a band aid measure as there will be an increase in pollution to deal with the larger demands of more power made available on the grid. We must concentrate on newer technology in respect to silicone composition of solar panels as currently only around 14% of the sun is captured for usage – this needs to be ramped up significantly and this is being researched quite exhaustively. T

….typo.

This has to happen for the viability of plug in electric cars into the household grid as this is pivotal to this occuring to really put a decent dent into lesser greenhouse gases. This; and population control of the worlds population are the really major factors that will help our situation and not some silly redneck comments on here about resources located in the ground.

looks better than a prius? Noooooooooooooo

(sarcasm)

Bavarian – because i am raw and the point does not make me an extremist.

Get over it.

Now – great novel you took the time and effort to write but guess what … it all takes money and a lot of it to bring programes of such to fruition and that is something that Ford (and GM) are highly short off. Infact, Ford is that desperate to raise some cash that they just sold Jaguar and Land Rover to Tata for a pitence.

Better still, passing statement that they will challenge Toyota costs absolutely nothing monetry wise but actually going through with it will cost literally billions of dollars and considering Toyota’s multi-billion profit revenue each year compared to Fords (and GM’s) multi-billion loss ‘each year’ – it is all lost comments in the winds to me.

No use beating your chest if you have nothing to beat it with.

Better still, Toyota’s profit in 2005 alone was enough to have brought out Ford Motor Co as an entirity lock, stock and barrel. Refer to Wikipedia (Toyota) for confirmation.

The fact is Bavarian – Toyota has the resources, expertise and above all most – financial reserves to wave an automotive war far and beyond of what Ford (and GM) could even dream as a possibility.

And to conclude, great how you raised the point that Toyota has contributed to the Japanese pollution. I guess all the other multitude of Japanese owned companies haven’t or the fact that Ford, GM and Chrysler have unarguably demonstrated the best commitment not only in America but throughout the world not to pollute the world either considering they still manufactuer dated 7.0 v8 muscle cars and the fact that far more spare parts are required to keep them servicable then a typical Japanese example.

And what was that – the Aurion generates less CO2 pollutants then a Commodore or Falcon.

I guess the fact that Holden persisted with the rear main seal for a painful 15 long years (dripping oil all over Australia) is a prime example of thier anti-global pollution incentives.

Sorry for the delay but i was playing motor racing with my son.

And one last thing – if GM and Ford are going to sell hybrids inline with Toyota… how do you reckon they will market thier so called environmentally friendly machines – as better for the globe i suppose !!

Worth thing about , am i wrong … !!

No matter ‘which way’ or ‘how’ you look at it – Toyota is infront while GM amd Ford are trying thier damn hardest to bring up the rear.

Hang on I might need to get a packed dinner if this discussion is going to continue! Or at lest something strong to drink . Ill be back …………..

Im back!……..Mikka…….you asked if you were wrong and I gave a yes….! but yet you want to continue ? Why?

Beating my chest…..that would hurt the DDs….Why is it when you get your answer you don’t accept it!

I have provided you facts yet you argue still,so do you drive a Prius???? Will you ever? And why not?

Bavarian – i don’t accept your answer because it is far to shallow and as i am concerned, i have offered some raw facts in return but obviously many that you didn’t see coming or haven’t even passed thought about previously.

Do i drive a Prius – NO

Will i ever drive a Prius – certainly not in the forseeable future but my requirements (beliefs, thoughts, opinions etc) are different to many others as with your own.

1 million hybrids is a hell of a lot more then any other manufactuer and probably close to most others combined as an enirity.

That said, who would have thought that SUV’s would have boomed 10 years ago or poxy 4 cylinder cars would be the rave when the big donks ruled the roads in the 60′s/70′s.

The world is continuingly evolving and obviously some manufactuers have employed departments that read trends a damn sight better then others.

Tell me when GM or Ford plan on selling a million hybrids … better still – tell me when they do !!

Put it this way… i won’t be holding my breath.

Who really knows why the earth is warming and if it is because of human habitation. Regardless, each industry with no exception of the automotive arena must play thier part to combat it.

Finally – if you have had enough of Toyota supremacy talk then is absolutely fine with me but people like yourself (and many others) must start learning to accept the fact that a great percentage (and an increasing one at that) have had an absolute gut full of hearing about how ‘supposedly’ great Holden (GM) and Ford are aswell.

For far to many years this nation had to endure all the crap from Holden and Ford clowns but now that times are vastly different then even a few years ago the same morons now cry like a bunch of pink ribboned girls.

Like it or not – all i have done is highlighted some facts about hybrid technology and how more manufactuers are coming online but because Toyota is the current king of the revolution – you bunch of retards try and discredit the idea but how differently would your views probably be if GM or Ford lead the charge.

Infact, the funniest thing about it all – i’m starting to witness it now ever sense GM has given the green light for thier own advancement on the project.

I guess some real raw truths is far greater swallow then living in La La land for most of your lives.

Get over it and accept that Toyota today has far more travelling with it then any American owned automotive manufactuer will ever have in the near future.

Here is a hint of my own … sense Toyota outsold Holden and Ford collectivly in the month of October and probably by a mammoth 70 000 plus vehicles over Holden this year alone – whom seems to have less of an interest in who !!

Put it this way – i carn’t see Holden badged Daewoo’s winning any desirable posts any time soon.

ps – keep your DD’s out of it because going by the law of gravity, i ain’t into ‘things’ hanging around ones belly button.

Oh yeah – why do you find the need to let Andrew know you have sent him an email on this blog considering if he is online he would notice that little yellow envelope in the bottom corner anyway.

Is it an ego thing …

well havent i missed a fire ball.
firstly i never knew there was such a yellow envelope down the bottom to warn of an email, so perhaps BM knowing i dont spend all my time searching Wiki etc like you she felt the need to remind my computer illeterate backside??

well i dont think ill get to all of it right now but a few things gave me a chuckle and will send me to sleep knowing you only have half a clue what is going on.

firstly you say toyota is into diesel and LPG…..
so i ask where is it???
ford have passenger diesel and passenger LPG vehicles whereas toyota has a big fat ZERO.
in my opinion they are the quick fixes, not spending many many years and billions of dollars on technology that one day will also become obsolete.

also you say toyota outsold ford and holden the other month……well they also have recalled more than ford and GM put together too.

you must learn to forgive people for still wanting to buy and drive vehicles that they might actually want or enjoy to drive.

to be continued…………

oh and with all toyotas money and might why the hell cant they design or build a stable of decent looking or great handling cars?

to be continued still…….

Mikka you cant win with these people, Ive shafted them in the past and they dont hack it. Because their beloved Fords dont have hybrids they dont accept them… you can guarrantee if this article was ‘Ford aims for 1 million Hybrids’ theyd be praising it as a revolution!!! Instead they spruke on about what they know about Ford, being small minded, LPG bla bla bla… forgetting the issue isnt consumption so much but rather emissions which LPG really doesnt help. AndrewM, Mikka already addressed your little argument you forwarded to me way back up top, I know Ford way back started ‘developing’ this technology, but research is one thing, applying it is another. Toyota have done this successfully, they now have a reliable hybrid in the form of the Prius. OBVIOUSLY Ford dont have a dependable production hybrid because if they did, they would be cashing in on the enviro market! Same applies to Holden. Im not suprised, both these manufcatrurers cant even perfect the internal combustion engine alone after 80 years of whatever, what chances do they have with these newer and more sophisticated technologies!!

Bavarian I think its safe to say cars and the like are contributing to green house gases, if you deny this, then your part of the earth is flat club. The issue is, would global warming be occuring without it? Who knows, there have always been temp fluctuations in the world. But its certainly more pronounced now. This aside, there is also an issue of health, car pollution isnt great. But MOST OF ALL, fuel is becoming a scarce resource, peak oil has passed… technology has to be developed now or else. Luckily we have Toyota and Honda who are making huge inroads to this, while the yanks continue developing petrol guzzling V8s.

Andrew – i don’t spend my life sarching wikipedia, you can be assured of that. Regardless, a bit of knowledge has never done anyone harm … has it !!

Incase you haven’t noticed, Toyota is one of the worlds biggest supplers of off-road and commercial vehicles and correct me if i am wrong but the last time i noticed they all came with diesel engines, inconjuntion with petrol.

Prado, Hulix variants, Cruiser variants and Hiace variants are all diesel powered … and sense they are the largest selling section within the Toyota range they are demonstrating considerable resonibility in my book especialy when the latest 4.5 V8 Diesel offers far superior output then the aged 4.2 L6 yet notably more frugal.

Regarding passenger vehicles – no Toyota currently does not offer this relatively small market one at present but they most certianly have many diesel optioned cars on the global market – Corolla in Europe as a single example.

However … Toyota does offer the largest range of hybrid vehicles in Australia – were is Ford or Holden’s example ??

That said – Toyota also offers it competive share of LPG compatible cars with the Aurion being the latest example to be signed-off.

With referance to recalls … Ford Motor Company actually recorded the largest amount of recalled vehicles with a 3.5 million global recall in one foul swoop – happen to forget that did we.

That said – despite the fact Toyota have endured some quality related issues at late – they have still managed to eclipse Holden and Ford in everysingle quality/customer satisfaction survey.

Remember the Leaked Australian Quality Survey – if you do you would recall how Holden were rated BELOW AVERAGE in everysingle category. That’s right, they couldn’t even score par in one single avenue while Ford didn’t fair that much better. Actually, it was the Commodore and Falcon whom had the dubious honor of receiving some wooden spoons.

Then followed the JD Powers analysis of WA motorist of which Toyota ranked within the top three while Holden and Ford ranked much further down the list. That was then backed by the RAC National survey which once again concluded Toyota within the top three while the red & blue badges were actually decribed as below benchmark.

Even in the late Consumer Choice Awards Toyota still managed to rank all three of it’s selling subsidiaries in America within the top 6 satifing 50% of the first 6 positions alone. Ford had improved but still ranked outside of the top 10 in 13th,14th and 15th respectively while despite the fact that Buick (or was that Caddy) in 10th spot – faired extremely poorly with every other of it’s subsidiaries ranging from MID to END OF FIELD.

to be continued …

TOYOTA PULLER CLUB – gee there is a orgy smorgasbord of these wallies

Lets look back at how this started shall we?

I said on the 29.12.07 “Paul there are other way of being environmentally friendly not just bringing out a car that plugs into a power point.”

TP asks”Bavarian please explain? The only way for a car manufacturer to become more environmentally friendly is to get away from the internal combustion engine, simple. In the short term they can reduce the emissiions of their engines (I think the Aurion is a class leader?)… but at the end of the day they need new technology and a plug in hybrid is a stepping stone towards a purely electric engine which can be plugged into the wall with power sourced from renewable energy

Mikka joins in and says”Bavarian – yes, there will be better alternatives to help our environment in the future but name me one ‘now’ that is readily available to begin the long journey down the right path of environmental conservation.

Hybrid may not be the best ‘extended term’ solution but the fact remains … it is TODAYS best alernative until otherwise

Am i wrong … !!

If not – try and explain why many manufactuers (including GM & Ford) are all jumping on the cart.

I give my reply “To Paul and Mikka……….you guys seem like extremists yourself when it comes to Toyota!

My point is not just fuel and batteries but the manufacturing side of cars! What you don’t think of all those gases that get spewed into the atmosphere every year from the steel thats made in Japan ?? All the components that are made in China for them…..the cows that pump equally as many gases into the air so you can have leather seats in your Lexus!

Here is something I found for you from Ford!

“Top secret Ford plan: Recyclable vehicles
Piquette Project aims to ‘fight Toyota and everybody else and come out on top.’
The automaker has begun a secret research project in hopes of producing recyclable, environmentally friendly cars of the future.

The effort — known internally as the “Piquette Project,” after Ford’s famed Piquette Avenue factory in Detroit where the Model T was developed nearly a century ago — was launched last year by Chairman and CEO Bill Ford Jr. as part of his campaign to revive the company’s spirit of innovation.

“The goal is to help us do with products what we did with manufacturing at the Rouge Plant,” said Ford spokesman Jon Pepper, referring to the $2 billion environmentally friendly makeover of the Dearborn industrial complex.

Pepper said Ford hopes to show some of the first fruits of the Piquette Project by 2008, the 100-year anniversary of the Model T.

Bill Ford last year asked his top executives to create a cross-functional team loosely patterned after the one his great-grandfather, Henry Ford, assembled a century ago at the Piquette plant.

That team helped create the moving assembly line and developed the Model T, the car that made automobiles accessible to the masses.

Bill Ford’s goal is nearly as ambitious: develop renewable, clean and safe vehicles that would be both socially conscious and provide a competitive advantage in the marketplace.

By the middle of last year, Ford had assembled a group of what Pepper described as “the best thinkers in our company.” They were given a clean sheet of paper and told to tackle the tough issues of environmental sustainability, novel design and engineering and passenger safety.

Using a “war room” inside Ford’s world headquarters in Dearborn, the team began meeting in early summer under the direction of Tim O’Brien, vice president of corporate relations; Gerhard Schmidt, vice president of research and advanced engineering; Nancy Gioia, director of sustainable mobility technologies and hybrids; and William McDonough, an environmental consultant instrumental in developing the new Dearborn Truck Plant at the Rouge Complex.

Camilo Pardo, the designer of the Ford GT, was tapped to head the project’s design efforts.

“We thought it was important to get out of the demands of the regular product development cycle,” Pepper explained, though he added that senior product development executives like Derrick Kuzak have been kept apprised of the team’s work in order to make sure it is grounded in reality.

The existence of the Piquette Project was first revealed Sunday by Time magazine on its Web site. Bill Ford and his efforts to turn around Ford are the subject of a cover story reaching newsstands this week.

“Piquette helps institutionalize innovation,” Bill Ford told Time. “My goal is to fight Toyota and everybody else and come out on top.”

While most major automakers have teams of people assigned to look into the future and develop new vehicles and technology, the Ford effort is notable because the automaker is counting on innovation to return the struggling company to greatness.

Before Sunday, the existence of the Piquette Project was known only to those directly involved in the research and a handful of top executives.
Pepper said they will not be able to say much, both because of the need to protect the work from competitors and because it is still too soon to tell just what will come of the project. While it’s difficult to put a timetable on the project, the goal is to show some results by 2008.

“It could be vehicles and it could be elements of vehicles,” Pepper said, adding that the group is working on a variety of projects, including ways to make vehicles safer, stronger, lighter and cheaper.

Rival Toyota Motor Corp. also has made mitigating the automobile’s impact on the environment a central goal of its advanced research efforts.

“Bill Ford was talking about that issue long before Toyota was,” Pepper said. ”

I guess Toyota would need to look at their own backyard first cause Im sure they themselves have contributed a hell of a lot of the polluted air in Japan over the years!!!!!!!!!

Also …Studies have shown that “Diesels are better for Society than Hybrids!!”

You guys don’t think that Toyota sell Hybrids cause they have fooled you all into thinking its better for the environment? A great selling tool I guess! Just like VW sold a lot of Combies in the flower power era.

Now I think I covered your questions Mikka but nooooo you do a spin and start babbling on about
Ford saying they will but their broke………how he hell do you know they wont??

Sorry if you don’t like my last answer but we are done with the Toyota reliability thing we have all had this argument before and I feel I answered the original question

Oh and your opinion on my chest……..is just that,what now your an expert on breasts! Little do you know!!!

UK BOY………What are you on???????

Sorry Paul forgot to answer you…….Sure they maybe contributing but I for 1 think that they have nothing to do with Global Warming…….look back over 100 years and many
documents will state temperatures were warmer some more than they are now like Iceland in 1920 ……it had more icebergs melting then than now….and as for Al Gore…Pfftttt…the sea is going to rise 20 feet……..! Try 24 inches in the next 100 years! Look if Toyota think they can sell more vehicles by jumping on the climate change debate train then good on them,the so called evidence is out there for them to promote there vehicles to 75% of Americans believe that global warming is due to pollution and guess what they buy a lot of Priuses….believe me . Do we need other forms of fuel of course but we dont have to drive Hybrids !

hahaha………your mad!!

TP,
you say ford and holden cant even perfect the combustion engine so how can they move to hybrids????

well i hope you dont think toyota can perfect it cause ford has had a hell of a lot less troubles getting it right than toyota.

how many stop production calls have toyota had this year alone due to engine malfunctions? and how many people were involved in that class law suit action against toyota for the known sludge issue with their motors a little while back?
once again your bias is getting in front of your thinking.

Mikka,
you have yet to respond and educate me of the alternative fueled passenger vehicles that toyota offer us australians………

yes studying alternatives may be one thing and having it now may be another, but right now what has toyota got? only a prius with no power and with rival diesel cars that cause its consumption figures embarresment.
all the hybrid tech we are talking about isnt here yet either, in the same way fords hydrogen tech isnt on the roads yet either.

oh and if you were massive environmentalists like you make out you would already know thw hole in the ozone layer is actually getting smaller. i have heard the year they expect it to be fully healed but i forget (it wasnt far away surprisingly) ill try to find it so you tree huggers can dance bare foot in the street.

hey Mikka are you the old “Dingo” by any chance?

dont bother looking back BM, just take it from the ephalant ha ha ha ha ha

Hey is it true Mikka you are the old Dingo? WOW that would be a shock but hey shit happens

Cheers
NM
___________________________________________________________

Maximus – Toyota has slipped a wee bit in the quality stakes but that said – all quality/customer satisfaction surveys still rate Toyota amoung the best of any manufactuer were relibility/dependabiliy stakes are of concern.

That said, GM and Ford do not and most certainly ALL customer satifaction surveys conducted right here in this great nation of ours have not had a positive comment to pass in regards to thier quality management … PERIOD.

And guess what … shit does happen !!

Please explain to me how Holden so miserably failed in every single segment in the Leaked Australian Quality Survey or better still – ranked absolutely dead-set last in others. That said, Toyota managed to score ABOVE AVERAGE or DOMINATE in every single competed category.

Andrew – correct me if i am wrong but isn’t the Prius and all extended range of Lexus hybrid vehicles an alternative in powering some off todays vehicles sold in Australia.

Once again – were is Ford’s or Holden’s CURRENT SELLING alternative powered vehicle in Australia that i can actually walk out my door right now and drive away in ??

Let me help you a wee bit … there isn’t !!

And now lets further this discussion about Ford getting it right the first time around – you must truely eat, sleep and shit that clown suit of yours.

Statistically proven as mentioned a few times now – Ford and Holden have some of the worst quality/customer satisfaction ratings amoung all so how are they getting it right the first time around.

Has it ever accured to you that Toyota temporarily suspending sales is infact a very smart and ballsy move that other manufactuers should actually take note as part of thier future quality control measures.

Past behaviuor demostrated by Holden and Ford have been extremely poor examples by any measure. When the Typhoon and other high powered Ford examples were first released they suffered from glitches associated with the clutch but did they stop production until the problem was rectified … NO THEY DID NOT. Infact, they continued selling the product by the hundreds instead.

The exact same thing can also be said about that awful GEN3. Despite the fact that Holden exhibited full understanding about it’s oil consumption problems as well as piston slap issues and even completely seized engines – they opted to continue along with sales and sold literally hundreds of potentially flawed vehicles to many unexpected customers with out even considering rectifing the issues first before allowing them to continue down the production.

The rear mani seal – plagued the buick equipped Commodores for 15 very long years yet did they ever try and sort the fault … certainly f*ck’n not !!

“JUST PUMP ‘EM OUT BY THE THOUSANDS GUYS” – would have the orders swarn from above.

But – Toyota however have actually had the decency to demonstrate the behaviuor they have in order not only to protect thier reputation in light of recent issues but maintain integrity with the customer.

When the new Corolla was fisrt shipped to our shores it had the steering column clip related problem – were any customers affected … NO !!

The TRD Aurion had an embarrassing blow on a single reported occassion yet Toyota stopped in thier tracks and conducted an exhaustive investigation to determne the problem … have any customers ‘todate’ been affected … NO !!

Then came the ECU issue with the V6 RAV and once again Toyota demostrated a behaviour that has ensured/minimised that no customer should/would be affected by the fault.

Now … that to me is afar superior manufacturing culture to exhibit then say Holden and Ford who opt to biuld hundreds and sometimes thousands of examples with known problems but haa – WE’LL FIX IT SOMETIME DOWN THE TRACK JOE – would have been their attitude.

Infact, it is thier attitude.

Another great example – DRIVE decided to place the VE Commodore in the running for the ’2007 Large Car of The Year’ again despite the fact that they were concerned about quality related issues the year before. They decided to give the VE yet another go in hope that 12 months down the track the previuos concerns would have received attention but to DRIVE’s dismay – they hadn’t.

Even better – the 2 star rated Barina. Holden would have certainly relised the numerous concerns demonstrated by the various motoring press organistaions but do they continue to sell the potential death traps to unexpecting motorists whom would prabably be a young female … YEP – they certainly do.

Yeah – a great automotive culture that is … NOT !!

ok so now its a reliability argument again…….

TP,
i think it was in ’05 that toyota recalled more vehicles than it actually made and last year they recalled more than ford and GM put together. this year they were set to smash that record again.

what you guys need to understand is that toyota isnt god when it comes to reliability and they too have their big share of problems. where the main difference seems to exist is that toyota seems to deal with their issues a lot better leaving a lot less upset customers in its path.

i can and have listed many many faults with toyotas ranging from mechanical to general fit and finish problems, the very same sort of problems you seem to heavily critisise Ford and Holden seem to be accepted by you toyota lovers when exhibited in your own vehicles.

ok TP so if i have only listed a few recent examples of problematic toyota combustion engines, you must have a list of problems as long as your arm with fords engine problems so lets here it.

also i did cite 3 issues out of millions sold but dont forget they didnt sell just 1 of each. out of millions sold it still affected millions

Mikka,
yes toyota has slipped a bit in their rankings and it was to the point where JD Powers no longer recommends them as the default choice for a quality/reliable vehicle.

also none of these consumer surveys have any credability.
im not denying toyota has a better track record when it comes to reliability etc, but rather that it is not the massive difference now days as you make out.

oh and on emissions…
yes the aurion does actually emitt a bit less co2 but it is also the smallest in its class dont forget. the 3.6L commy is actually worse than the falcon 4.0L aswell for reference. the bigger falcon comes in at 2nd ahead of both the commy and mitsu 380.

and to finish…….
you guys need to get a life if the only reason you would buy a car is because of a survey results or a good past history on reliability.
there are many more factors to buying a car for most of us including….
Enjoyment
Handling
Safety
Comfort
And general fell of the vehicle.

in all of those above, toyota doesnt rank too highly in my mind and nor any reviewers.

You’re 100% right Andrew M in relation to recalls

Don’t forget TP and Mikka in a lot of cases Toyota use the same suppliers as Holden and Ford ..

Whereas Ford and Holden tend to do the right thing and announce either a proven or potential fault with their cars to the media/public which prompts owners to see their Holden dealer ASAP.

Toyota could be one of those who does their recalls on the quiet.. “we’ll just fix it when the owner brings it on for the next service” inorder to maintian their public image which is so heavily founded on their so called reliability

It makes me think that Toyota wait for Holden or Ford to make the announcemnt then wait for cars with parts from the same suppleiers to come in before they do anything.

It’s irresponsible because what would happen if there was a problem with the steering of the corolla; and a little old lady had an accident in her corolla [only days before the scheduled service] which was caused by the faulty component and she was severly injured or killed? -

It could have been avoided if Toyota made an announcement.
But [oh no] the public image is way more important it seems than peoles lives

Which is why I prefer Holden and Ford over Toyota

Andrew – EXACTLY !!

The way Toyota deals with it’s problems leaves customers far less disgruntled then many purchasers of Holdens and Ford.

Thank you o’dear lord – the clown has spoken it for himself.

And has it ever occured to you that many other reasons exist to why many people buy a Toyota and not because of thier robust history of manufactuering reliable, dependable and durable vehicles.

The fact is clown – Toyota vehicles are comfortable, do handle and ride respectively and most certainly are amoung some of the safest units on offer.

Lets just have a look at it’s passenger vehicles alone.

Yaris … 5 stars
Corolla … 5 stars
Camry … 4 stars
Aurion … 4 stars

Actually, while i mention Aurion – how f*ck’n embarrassing it must have been how Holden tried to fool the public by promoting how the VE has been engineered to be the safety Australian large car but when our very own official crash team conducts thier own tests – the Aurion manages to pip the so called great Commodore 27/37 to 30/37

Please o please clown – feel free to explain that to the rest of us bloggers.

That said, Toyota styling has improved and we certainly won’t get into bland cars because as far as i am concerned – just about all of them are styling bland cars with examples from Mitsubishi, Holden (and it’s new found love of Daewoo), Nissan, Subaru, Hyundai and may the list continue.

That said, Toyota products are highly competitively priced not just at sale but after care aswell. They are also highly competitive when it come to packaging and now – gee wiz they are actually amoung some of the most powerful examples of any.

And – general feel of the vehicle … spot on drongo and once gain – you said it for me !!

So yes indeed twit – Toyota has a hell of a lot going for it then just what the typical Holden/Ford clown likes to believe. It is not just about engineering a car that can handle – for many buyers of cars it is about the positive owner experiance of an all rounded vehicle that excells at nothing but bloody competant at everything and sense Toyota is the company that has risen to dizzy heights recently – it appears they are the one that has striked that balance more so then what Holden or Ford could currently even hope to achieve.

What’s even funnier – while most Japanese manufactuers are rapidly improving their vehicles right across the board – Holden proves how much of true idiot they are by trying to flog of Daewoo crap as competition.

Infact, so far the new so called Camry killer Epica has sold so poorly that Australian Best Cars magazine highlighted the fact that Lexus sells more prestiage IS250 series then Holden does of it’s cheap and nasty Epica crap.

And for some reason – you keep talking about cars.

Incase you haven’t noticed – SUV’s and Off-Roaders are highly favourable at the moment and onne again – Toyota pretty much leads the race expecially when it comes to buying a robust, capable and durable off-roader.

Infact, given the very nature of our country and the industries that predominantly drives it – what’s Ford and Holdens excuse for not leading the charge of suppling class leading commercials themselves.

TP……you maybe interested in this little story.
Driving a hybrid might make you feel better for helping the environment, but a study of the most common alternative fuels claims diesel provides the greatest benefit to consumers and to society.

It may surprise those who associate diesels with smoke-belching 18-wheelers, but a cost-benefit analysis by the RAND Corp. finds so-called advanced diesel engines provide a slight edge over gas-electric hybrids and both leave E85 in the dust.

Even more surprising? The study claims that the high cost and resource-intensive means of producing and transporting E85 – a mixture of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline – makes it less beneficial to society than using straight gasoline.

“Advanced diesel and hybrid technologies show very well in this study, in terms of benefits to the individual and society overall,” said John Graham, dean of the Pardee RAND Graduate School and senior author of the paper. “E85 simply doesn’t provide the same results.”

So what makes diesel so great? And are there any holes in the research? Read on…

Sm_hq_3 The researchers examined the costs and benefits to consumers and to society of hybrids like the Toyota Prius, diesels like the Mercedes Benz E320 Bluetec and “flex-fuel” vehicles like the Chevrolet Impala that can run on E85. Each was compared to gasoline vehicles. The researchers said they omitted other fuels, such as compressed natural gas and electricity, because they don’t see such vehicles being produced in great numbers during the next decade.

The researchers didn’t drive the cars, they studied data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the Environmental Protection Agency and elsewhere.

To quantify the benefit to consumers, the researchers weighed the cost of the technology against its fuel savings, mobility (likelihood to induce travel by cutting fuel expenditures) and performance (measured by torque). Societal benefits were determined by the impact each technology has on pollution (including the pollution created in the production and shipment of the fuel), vehicle emissions and energy security, defined as the likelihood of each technology to ease dependence on foreign oil.

They assumed fuel prices of $2.50 a gallon for gasoline, $2.59 a gallon for diesel and $2.04 a gallon for E85, a figure that includes the federal tax credit of 51 cents a gallon.

So what’d they find?

Advanced diesel engines offer the greatest savings over the life of the vehicle, cutting fuel costs by $460 for a mid-sized car, $1,249 for a mid-sized SUV and $2,289 for a full-sized pickup. Hybrids offered savings of $198, $1,066 and $505 respectively. Why? Because hybrids are typically have much higher purchase prices than similar diesels.

“While it is assumed that the hybrid vehicle will save more fuel than the advanced diesel, the overall advantage goes to the diesel because of its lower technology costs and better performance, such as increased torque,” Graham said. That picture could change, however, if the cost of hybrids comes down, he said.

The study found the operating cost of an E85 vehicle is higher than a similar gasoline vehicle because although E85 is cheaper than gas, it produces less energy so you have to burn more of it. Running E85 in a mid-sized car will cost you $1,034 more over the life of the car than using gasoline, the researchers concluded.

Things get harder to follow when it comes to assessing the societal benefits, as you can see from the study:

Our societal analysis introduces the following complications: (1) the impact of lowered U.S. oil consumption on U.S. energy security is quantified and monetized, (2) the lifecycle impacts of emissions of conventional tailpipe pollutants and greenhouse gas emissions are quantified and monetized, and (3) the indirect effect of each alternative on vehicle miles of travel through the “rebound effect,” including pollution, congestion and other externalities, is quantified and monetized. Fuel prices are treated net of taxes and credits in the societal case because taxes and credits are considered to be transfers (i.e. they produce no net change in well-being for society as a whole).

When those factors are considered, the researchers say, diesel provides the best societal benefit, narrowly edging out hybrids. Both, again, leave E85 in the dust. In fact, the researchers claim E85 won’t produce net societal benefits unless production costs come down or gas prices maintain or exceed current levels. The nationwide average was just over three bucks a gallon last week.

Interesting???

I think so,but I don’t think there is ever going to be one answer that keeps every one happy…..

Mikka…….I thought I had already said that?? Another avenue for manufactures to cash in on something that widely portrayed as a World Problem and for them to redeem themselves as polluters !! Very clever ……

Loose Wheel Nut – to prove how much of a clown you are, noy only is it ILLEGAL to hide a potential fault with a seat belt but no company including Holden or Ford would be so stupid to hide the fact if there was.

Better still, explain why Toyota temporarily suspended ful concern of all – SAFETY.

The point is twit – clowns like yourself is why an increasingly higher proportion of the public are killing themselves will laughter at the Holden/Ford clown because you are one of the great examples of an idiot.

People respect ‘class’ not ‘stupidity’ and if that’s what Holden and Ford stands for today – suppling cars to bogons – then no wonder the Japanese manufactuers are walking all over them.

I admit that SUVs or AUVs or whatever Toyota Likes to call them are quite popular at the moment..

Yet in an issue of NRMAs Open Road magazine [earlier this year] there was an article/survey as to why these Mobile Fortresses are so popular in suburbia.

The reporter did the survey at a primary school on sydneys north shore in the afternoon.. when mothers were gathering to pick up their beloved ankle biters.

When asked why they bought a 4×4 instead of a normal sedan.. The most common response was because of the feeling of safety they get.

The reporter told them that a normal sedan is just as safe. most of those who took part then admitted to having droven sedans [either Falcons or Commodores] but switched to a 4×4 because they were a crap driver and had so many accidents.

Which gives you an idea of the type of people who buy Landcruisers or Prados etc..

Theyre not popular because their good cars or practical their popular because the people driving them [in general] arr bad..

Who knows they could be like yourself and place high importance on the ANCRAP tests.

Note Cross-overs such as the Ford Territory are slightly different to 4x4s as theyre based on the same platform as a sedan – hence car like handling; not a sepperate chassis purpose built for offroad which is why they’re as manouvreable as a 18 wheeler

The reason Ford and Holden don’t have such an extensive range of Toyotas is because that segment of the market is dominated by Toyota.

It doesn’t make sense to try and enter a market [sector] which is so heavily dominated by one or two other “established” manufacturers. Because no matter how good your product is the chances of you being able to outsell them is close to Buckleys.. You may get credit for trying but you will never out do them. Infact in most cases it will either cost you $$$$ or send you bust

Hence companies tend to stick to what they’re better at doing. Toyota is better than Ford/Holden at building 4x4s
Whereas Ford and Holden ar Better at Large RWD Family Sedans.. and the germans are generally better than all 3

The reason ford have never stopped sale of the Falcon or Commodore is because they – as far as I can recall; have never had such a major problem with their “Hero car”
where a bearing on a supercharged engine seizes causing damage to the pistons valves etc and the car to breakdown then start a [small] fire whilst on a test drive on a public road in a major city with a potential customer on board.

Why because Holden and Ford do extensive research and development on their cars as well as rigourous testing of components – its called quality control..and when they find either a potential fault they notify the public with a rcall notice.. which also helps in the development of the next series of that model

As it turns out the ECU in the TuRD wasn’t calibrated properly because the Eaton supercharger too powerful for the engine. Yet it was a similar S/C to the one Holden used on the CV6 Monaro and they had no such problems

QUOTE Mikka………
“Correct me if i am wrong but hasn’t Andrew, LooseWheelNut (and yourself) have an extended history of insulting Toyota Paul”

yes you are wrong.

end of correction…………….

Mikka – I suggest you go cool off 4 a bit. It is a bit clicky though. Hey Alborz what do you think is this really what you want the website for?

Morning…………UK BOY!!!!!!

No it isn’t what the site is about and us “clicky” people had all said the same before………Alborz has listened which is why TP got banned last time ok!!

Time and time again we have all tried to change the subject previously but to no avail…….when sheer frustration clicks in regulars leave and thats not good!

Mikka: Both BM Andrew M and Myself are aware that there are more manufacturers than Ford or Holden..

To prove this I believe BM has a BMW M3.. I have a Subaru Impreza RS.. so we are able to think outside the square.
Once I drove a Prius [but I'm allright now]

The thing is there are a number of people on websites such as this who tend to say [Make X] is better than [Make Y] due to the fact that either:
a) I own one – or used to own one or; b) its from [Country]

Yet they criticise a car which they haven’t owned/driven or because they are so bigotted would never own or drive.
either because of the make; model or where it comes from

So unless you have owned or driven a particular car you don’t really have a right to say anything about it be it good or bad.. [except from looks]

Or they just don’t bother doing any research

Whereas I spend a fair amount of time reading various car magazines from both here and O/S or viewing various auto websites.. so even though we have our preferences I am able to accept that in certain areas:
a Toyota may be better than a Holden or Ford.
a Holden may be better than a Ford or Toyota.
a Ford may be better than a Toyota or Holden.

That’s the difference.. because BM AndrewM and I do reserach and we have experience a number of other bloggers agree with us.

Gee didnt realise that Jbot…who posts obsessed Toyota comments intensely seems like 33million times and then gets pulled up for meaningless comments. NOT THE SIDE YOU REFER TO. AND WASNT IT CUTTING TRUTH WHEN EXPLANATION GIVEN WHY HE WAS BANNED! Keep up the good work!

LooswWheelNut – these tests are conducted to give the public a guide regardless with what ever stunt you’ll try and pull otherwise.

That stated – were is the evidance that proves that a Holden or Ford would prove to have better crash integrity in a real life situation then compared to a Toyota – the fact is … there isn’t and it is all based on assumptions only just like how so many clowns keep ASSUMING Holden will be better but todate evidance strongly suggests otherwise.

Once gain – no matter your return quibble, the results published by the ‘AUTHORISED PROFESSIONALS’ give us an understanding better then what any gobby amatuer on the internet could ever provide that is usually based on emotion and not fact.

One thing i will agree with you upon though is the heavy use of Off-road monsters in Suburbia. Actually, i whole hearted disagree with it myself but the fact remains – manufactuers don’t design, engineer and manufactuer these to be utilised as suburban school buses but as thier intended designed function.

However, manufactuers (and that goes for all of them) can not control the use of these vehicles by the general public and that goes for some clowns who try and use a family sedan as a bush basher.

It is up to the public to utilise vehicles according to thier intended funtion not manufactuers.

Another thing i will agree with you upon is the stupidity of Toyata withdrawing from many motorsport arena’s.

The reason they done it was in pursuit of mega big bikkies and now that we look upon it – they have achieved exactly that but it has come at a cost aswell.

Now Toyota finds themselves with not much motorsport recogniton so they are now investing in getting back into the arena but not necesaarily the ones they once competed within.

F1 has indeed proven a far greater challenge then anticipate but regardless the learning from such an undertaking has allowed them to improve thier engineering in so many ways with examples now coming to fruition from the Lexus stand – IS-F & LF-A.

That said, Renault finally achieved the Golden Gloves but it took them 20 odd years to accomplish it and i hold absolute confidance that Toyota will eventaully achieve the same – not sure when though.

American Truck Racing has proven to be good grounds with them while thier first season in NASCAR racing yeilded some good results aswell but with much work to be done.

Infact, to help thier course further – Toyota has secured a long term favourable and podium winning GM team (Gibbs Racing – i think) as another Toyota Racing Team in the 2008 season. That should prove to be a very intersting result.

It’s like taking the Kelly Brothers or Lowndes and sticking them into a Nissan instead if you grasp what i am trying to get at.

On a much smaller scale but back here in Oz – Toyota remains the undisputed challengers in the local Australian Rally Championships (ARC) while the newly formed Hilux Heroes should prove a hit wit the public aswell.

TRD has finally establsihed thier own little outfit in Oz with the first examples now arriving while a TRD Aurion road Racer will be seen at many events beginning with Targa Tasmania. Infact, Neil Bates and his team have aligned themslves closely with TRD in Australia and i believe he will prove to be a good man for the job.

And lets not forget the recently imported TRD Camry drag monster from the states.

Yes, they are getting there once again but admittedly alot of work remains in the pipe line but they indeed heading down the right path.

I remember when Lexus first hit the market and the critism they receievd but 20 years along in time they are now one of the most respectd and recognised motoring companies in the world.

MIKKA IF YOU ARENT DINGO….ARE YOU TOMBOY PULLERS (TP) BROTHER OR WHAT.

Missile, cant lead a horse to water you can only tell them where it is…they would rather nag (like the horse) about Toyota as reality is thats there only road they know. Maybe they should discover the Hyundai i30 that is superior to Toyota in quality and whatnot as I provided evidence before, or like the Mazda 2 ahead of Yaris, or like the Mazda 6 ahead of Aurion, or like CX7 ahead of Rav 4 = reality is Toyota’s range is solid but not all at top of each category

NM ……..I have always thought Mazdas great cars…..

Just below Honda but above Subaru!

LooseWheelNut – you go on about research locally and aboard … and that means many other people don’t practice the same behaviuor because …

The thing is buddy – no matter how good you are … there is always someone better.

I to love my cars and enjoy noting the automotive scenes. Right now i am employing Toyota as my fighting card because it is crystal clear that the BIG T is far more distruptive to Holden and Ford then any other.

What i do hate with a passion though is how twits try and pass a negative comment towards Toyota without actually relising the same flaws associated with thier own beloved company.

Great example – you drongos try and take the mickey out of Toyota for investing in hybrid tech yet infact many other automotive manufactuers are doing the exactly same.

Better still, companies like Ford are trying so hard to get in on the act themselves that they purchase technology elsewehere (Toyota)just to hasten thier own pace.

Surely big fella you can undertsnd my point.

Mikka the same can be said for yourself……..
Quote……..
“What i do hate with a passion though is how twits try and pass a negative comment towards Toyota without actually relising the same flaws associated with thier own beloved company.”

you always pass negative comment about ford and holdens quality issues yet you dont want to take that toyota also has a pretty comparible list of faults too.
you too even gave an extensive list of known problems with toyotas yet you still like to hang shite on ford and holden.
do you remember something about glass houses and what you shouldnt throw if you live in them? well same applies to you mate

Mikka………we all know about the environmental band wagon everyone wants to jump on whilst its moving….but they still wont sell many …….any of the car manufacturers! But I guess if it pays for its self and makes a profit then good on on them all!

Why do you keep addressing Wheelnut?? He himself is noooooooo
idiot,trust me I know what he does for living! He is the furtherest from Bogan of any of us ……..none of us think that Holden and Ford don’t have flaws……..I myself have listed many that Im sure even Paul will admit seeing!

What you don’t get is that we are followers like yourself..and are passionate about our heritage in this Country…something Toyota doesn’t have,sorry……but true!

On that note……hubby has finally finished adapting the last set of headers to the new Cobra…….still not as responsive as the BA was but getting better! It may beat the M3 yet……hahahaha!! The BA could!

See…….Mikka….we do laugh at ourselves!

How you wont be walking all over me again this evening…….I guess you are about to find out why! I was trying to calm you down but again he start ranting!

NM………..Paul had more brains than this guy!

Seems hes drinking and posting!!!!hahaha

Mikka,
well if you have any give in you you will admitt that you were wrong when you said ford didnt halt up when they found a problem with the typhoon clutch.

just clear that up and we will move on with the rest of the arguments at hand.

im sick of you jumping over any valid points we leave in your path

TP is not bad and agree – just wrong how they go on about reliability is only reason and that Toyota gets that as huge empire, history and huge asset base – but they are piss poor in defence of useless track record with motorsport and then stupidly say its early days and heading in right direction when they have production history. Bit like going to toilet and wiping ya arse with other hand….dare say some sticks on them! In Mikka’s case like cement render 10mms thick all over…LAUNGHING MY ARSE OFF.

Fancy all that experience with production cannot be translated onto the race track….Will laugh again at F1 time when the huge name called Toyota go crap AGAIN!

Mikka,
you have fooled yourself yet again mate.

they caught the clutch drama VERY early on and as i said the ute variant never got time to leave the factory.

stop backpeddling and be a man

MIKKA…really cobber you just make me laugh with your selective memory loss and attitude misquoting me early (rather patchy at best) – you better get your sleep as big dog commercial already done with on TV. LOL!

Hey Lcat……..your no idiot I know that……….but Americans are ,too believe that driving a Prius will help! Solar panels have been addressed before….they expend more pollution than they expedite in production!

People keep looking at the beginning of the product not what it try’s to exclude at the end!…….as a producer…..trust me !
Production.production production………..that needs to be addressed not the end product!

I’m not asleep……..Uk boy!

If there is demand then its based on advertising not facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your still a wanker!!!!!!!!!!!

Im off for a drive in the stroked 5.8 ……..just to annoy you!

So your another numb f..k that believes that the world is about to explode cause a car firm tells you !!!!!!!!!hahahahahaahahhahahhaahhah Do you need the nearest number to a green car firm!!!!!!!!!! Give us all a break!!!!!!!!!!

What no reply……….Im off to watch Gone………….Gone with the wind!!!!

Bavarian – for somewho likes to be COOL, you are certainly showing your wacky side but i guess the UNCOOL do that when they have been down-right beaten.

Now … at 6.19pm last night you issued a warning to me about insults as if you are some sort of a mediator but yet have a look at your direct above posts – they are nothing but insults.

Any reason for that sense you were the clown issuing INSULT WARNINGS !!

You are not cool in the least Bavarian nor a mediator and most certainly not someone of any respect. But … i do know one thing for sure and that is you are abviuosly a hypocrite (inline with most Holden/Ford clowns) and someone with an extreme character.

It’s amazing how ones true character is revealed when pressured.

Maybe you should be Scud Missile – unreliable and all over the place.

Oh yeah – show the rest of us bloggers were any automotive manufactuer has ever stated that the world is about to explode. Can you actually produce us with that statement or should we right it of because you won’t be able to.

WEAK !!

Thanks Alborz. I’ll do my bit but the others its up to them.

In response to BM – I have a green credential and i’m proud to say it. Fact: the average Australian is the most poluting per capita on this small planet. Feel proud of that. When the average temp for Queensland has risen by 5degC & it becomes unihabitable remmeber your decision.

I appreciate the Prius for what it is and does.

You might think i’m w*ank*r i have my judgement of you which I keep to myself. After all this is a Cyber world. You might not even be who you say you are, Do you really have the M3, Cobra, the pool. I don’t care.

I’m expressing my point of view about the content of the Website.

As for me I live in the South of England, middle aged, wife & 2 sprats. I lived in Kew, Melbourne in 2005/6 and worked on the Eastlink project. We came home a year early due to mife wife being treated horrendously by male colleagues that was a $150K p.a post in Engineering.

Whilst I may be a bit of a greeny I do drive a larger than average (for the UK) engined car. I don’t think the Prius is the whole answer to clean motoring, its good for cities where polution control is required.

Don;t live in the past move on. Enjoy the 5.8 i frankly couldn’t give a to55.

Mikka. I Appreciate that, but the country folk are a minority. There are others in Oz. I’m a whinging P.O.H.M to you lot. You should feel proud that Holden still exist in name. Look what has happenned to the UK manufacturers. Pretty much all gone. Austin, Morris, Hillman, MG, Mini, Rover …..

Toyota are good as are Holden and Ford. Indeed I read the mooring press in the UK and Holden frequently get mentions.

Don’t too pi55ed at BM & Co. They like to race. I personally would like them to have there own forum to battle it out but it is all about discussion, comments are frequently taken too seriously.

See yah. P.S. keep it up.

Tell ya what Mikka is grilling you guys… and winning.

Ford+Holden people talk about Toyota offering nothing – He clearly shows they do, not that this was a hard task, their million of sales show they offer quite alot (you dont sell cars purely based on reliability)

Ford+Holden people talk about Toyota Covering Up Recalls – Another quite funny thing, as Mikka highlights somehow suspending production of a car / sales, which makes the friggin news, is far more public then discretely sending letters out to your customers like the locals (Didnt Ford a coupla years back mask a recall in some Ford servicing advertisement as well?)!

Ford+Holden people talk about insults – Mikka correctly identifies how these same people use to be the worst of the worst insulters around and even though they dont use personaly insults now, their distinct lack of knowledge (bar Ford) is an insult!!!

Ford+Holden people say Toyota has no heritage – The most recent post and Id say the pinnacle of Mikkas posts, an iconic part of Australia is the bush. As Mikkas says Ford and Holden are that Australian what do they even offer to people out in the country? A Territory? A Captiva? You go out in the bush… or even for you lazy people, just watch a program on the bush… what are they in? A Landcruiser. Hell even Nissan is more Australian in these terms then Ford and Holden. You cannot attack Toyota for its Australian heritage.

I only came to this late so Ive read over this all and I must say Mikka has summarised it all well. All you Ford people do for the most part is talk fluff, the recall comment clearly highlighted this… totally baseless. And to think this has all come out of a Hybrid argument lol

On topic (I dont know where it started going off)… as Ive said Hybrids are a stepping stone to purely electrics. Toyota have said a very achieveable target in my opinion, I just hope they design some attractive looking hybrids for once.

Definitely some truth there TP and Mikka, but, I never heard Mikka re-address Andrew.M’s point of how FPV halted production on the Typhoon to resolve the clutch issue.

I beleive Mikka said earlier “no matter how much you know, someone always knows more”. Very true, so Andrew.M is correct on the clutch issue. Will you acknowledge that?

I’m not surprised BM had a rant when these words were constantly heaved at everyone with the slightest criticism of Toyota:- “loose wheelnut”, “idiot”, “twit”, “clown”, “bogan”, “drongo”, “pigoen mind”, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I mean you called some people here “clown” what must have been DOZENS of times.

And “the rest of us bloggers”??? Many people will agree with your point of veiw, many will not. Personally, I agree with about 50/50. I hope I’m not a bogan clown now because it isn’t 100%.

yes paul,
but our stations arent green yet and they wont be green overnight. by the time our stations are green id bet hydrogen will be knocking on our door.
it has also been stated that electric cars during the production process arent that great for the environment.

thats why i reason that these small diesels that rival consumption of hybrids and LPG are the immediate solution because they are just as effective and offer little or no compromise.

i wonder if when plugins comein whether you have to have solar panels fitted to your house in the same way you must have a rainwater tank if you have a pool?

PAUL, maybe you saying power stations are better because the car company you love (Toyota) is doing it, so you have to back them.

No Name – yes they are but they are usually about as Australian as an Aussie can be and that doesn’t change our culture/heritage one wee bit.

Again – nothing remains more true to the outback but the ‘outback’ and ‘country folks’ themselves as a hard lived 70 series Cruiser and a cattle dog.

Simple – that doesn’t change.

Did you enjoy my Snowy Mountain Scheme rattle aswell – pretty much to the point haa … !!

Watto – i did acknowledge the Ford clutch stop sale as i stated earlier but not before many examples had already left the showroom floor – did i not !!

What’s even better watto is giving some of these clowns a good taste of thier own medicine. Correct me if i am wrong but the few i have critised have been amoung some of the very worst offenders in previous posts when it comes to critising other bloggers so what’s with the attitude when it all comes flying right back at ‘yas – what is it … carn’t hack it or something… it that what the problem is.

Fantastic example by Wallowing Missile … warns be about critising but when i engaged myself on this site this morning – there’s Miss Missile going hammer & tongs with insults.

Seriuosly buddy – were exactly do some these idiots actually get of. Truely amasing … absloutely truely amasing !!

If the clowns don’t want to take it then don’t dish it out in the first place … Period !!

Andrew – like i stated before, Diesel is another sound option to pursue at present but the fact remains – diesel engines are still fossil burners.

Until Hydrogen does come onboard – attacking the CO2 mission war can be fought from many fronts and not just one.

Euro4 compliant Petrol and diesel engines, greater use of diesel engines and even hybrid technology is what we have as current viable altenatives of which more and more manufactuers are taking onboard and that is absolutely no different to how Toyota is doing thier bit aswell.

Once again – why the critism towards hybrids when it is just another option of many for the global population to choose from so that they can do thier bit aswell.

That said – it brings me right back to my very first point – Holden and Ford fans predominately attack Toyota over hybrid technology because they are the ones whom undoubtedly are leading the hybrid race and now all of a sudden the American owned duo are desperately trying to cash in on the race aswell so explain to the rest of us bloggers how Toyota is ‘supposedly’ any worse then the others in this regard … simple – they’re not.

They’ve just been a hell-of-alot more smarter then the others so if these so called bloggers on here are car enthusists and not aligned to any particular manufactuer – wht don’t they adhere to thier own claims and give credit were credit is due.

Im suffering from PMS………….{PUTTINGUP MIKKA S..T}

Ruffled my feathers………hahahahaha…change hands!

Try and play mediator…….well it worked didn’t it I sent Alborz a email on you and you got warned!!!!!

Mate I proved my point on Hybrids being not the only alternative….maybe you cant understand English!

Mate I didn’t start out by being rude……you started that ball rolling not me ……what do you expect when you throw insults at others?? A pat on the back?

Mate you have no credibility MR DINGO! WHY the name change……pffttt can only think of one reason why you would bother, so now you have embarrassed yourself again whats the next name??

Well why don’t you ask Alborz to do so them mate!

If you take the time to read what was said you will see that he started with the abuse and as I pointed out we were meant too accept it!

Where do I say I run the site ????????

Your implying it aren’t you!

For those of you who belive Hybrids are the be all and end all have a look at this

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/29/automakers-losing-interest-in-performance-hybrids/

Whats with the statement that The Snowy Mountains Scheme is part of Toyotas heritage. A fair amount of Toyotas [and Subarus] Heritage is in building warplanes in WWI and II

Sure Toyotas were used during the construction process but that was merely a coincidence because it’s not like Toyota themselves intended to be involved it’s just that the people building the monument believed that Toyotas were the most suitable for the job.

Nor is the Australian Bush part of Toyotas heritage because there are places outback where you would be lost without a 4×4 [particulalry during the NT Wet Season] and as Ford and Holden dont make a large 4×4 the Toyota is really the only alternative. Toytota didn’t plan for them to be so common in the bush it’s just a coincidence.

If anything its the oyther way around where Toyota is a part of Australias HISTORY – which is different to our heritage

I mean I am yet to see a Car be it Ford Holden or Toyota listed as Part of Australias [let alone the worlds]Heritage List along side the Sydney Harbour Bridge etc.

If you think like that – you could say that Princess Dis Death is a part of Mercedes Benzs Heritage.. because that was the car she happened to be in when she died. But it’s not its merely coincidence

By the way there were actually more VWs [Bugs and Kombis] on the site of the Snowy Mountain Scheme than Toyotas.
Because they were air cooled required little maintenance and were the right width for the narrow tracks in the area.

BM hasn’t “bugged out” [which is such a bogan term from the 80s] she has far more important things to do

I agree Toyota are part of Australias History as all car companies do.. However; what I think BM was getting at in relation to “Australias Heritage” is that Toyota hasn’t done as much development etc in Australia as Ford and Holden. For Example Ford who invented the Utility or Holden who developed Radial Tuned Suspension.

Not only that but their Motorsport History in Australia isn’t that spectacular either as except for rally they haven’t had a factory backed team in the Touring Car Championship since the 70s.. And motorsport plays a big part in Australias Heritage has done since about 1940

Whereas Holden had the HDT – Now HRT; plus they also won several Repco Round Australia trials.. and its the “link” to the Factory that helps sell cars – Remember “Win on Sunday Sell on Monday.”

The thing is when you look at the basics it all comes down to the Traditional Ford V Holden thing .. it’s what we grew up with; its part of our heritage and its part of who we are..

and it’s something Toyota; Nissan or Mitsubishi will never beable to be part of it. We love our country and our Aussie Built V8 Sports Cars

Maybe if Toyota kept the Camry as their FWD Run-about and made the Aurion RWD dropped in a V8 [ Just as Tom Phillips wanted to do with the Mitsubishi 380] then maybe things would be different

And it’s not only Australia its the same in the States with Ford vs Chev [vs Dodge] and Europe with BMW V Merc V Porsche.. and I’m sure its the same in Japan with Toyota vs Nissan vs Honda

Hybrids may usel less fossil fueletc however it takes more energy and resources to build them.. Because they are so “delicate” it takes longer to assemble and repair them than it does a normal car particularly after an accident.

Which could be a reason for the slow pick up rate in Australia

My mate works for a [reputable] a smash repairer and he’s had a Prius in his workshop for nearly 2 months repairng both front and rear. Probalbly because the brakes are way to sharp.

Maybe as hybrid technology fuel develops it may become easier and cheaper..Yet there are other car companies like BMW and GM working on other eco friendly alternatives.

Wheelnut – you go on about Toyota’s motorsport in our country isn’t that spectacular and a fair added point i must admit.

But … that is just one single avenue of or motoring history. I can say to you that Holden and Ford do not have a spectacular heritage of suppling our Farmers, Mines, Heavy Industries and Trades personnel with desirable workhorses.

Now … motorsport does not make our economoy turn on the axle but our industries are the very backbone of our economy / society and Toyota commericals play a far greater role in that alone then Holden and Ford combined.

Now – you go on about the traditional Holden vs Ford thing and thats exactly it – a growing percentage of the Australian population have had an absolute gut full of the same ‘ole same ‘ole and are now actually challenging those traditions for more soul then the just the same ‘ole two time after time.

A growing number of people are simply over it … myself included.

What people are now inceasingly wanting in Australian motorsport is something new, something different, new soul and new character beyound the same ‘ole weekend thing.

Basically – much of the population have to put up with Holden battling Ford because they simply do not a choice otherwise.

WHY … because CAMS and the two local lads are to scared to open up the tournament to some REAL COMPETITION.

And this Race on Sunday and sell on Monday was retired years ago and the fact that an increasing amount of the Australian population opting to purchases from other manufactuers is a fantastic example to that testimony.

And it is obviuos that Toyota doesn’t need to sell RWD V8 Camry’s because they sell in numbers just the way they are. Infact, may i remind you that Toyota is comfortably the greatest selling manufactuer in Oz by a huge margin.

I believe they will outsell second place runner – Holden – by a whooping 70 000 plus vehicles alone in this relatively small market.

Achievements of that kind simply do not happen by mistake … PERIOD

Things don’t need to be different for Toyota – why would it be. On the other hand – it is clear that things need to be alot different with Holden and Ford. For starters – Holden could purge itself of it new found love of Daewoo vehicles and that is just the beginning.

Customers are the real judges not the automotive media of abundance.

MIKKA…that is it, self centred do gooders like yourself put all there eggs in one basket on one hand talking of sheer might of Toyota and then ignoring there useless history in F1 and other car racing. Bit like me being a builder and not putting a concrete slab down.

You are also bizarre to not understand that Ford do Territory, Falcon and Focus (soon) whereas Toyota do a measly one (Aurion/Camry as same category virtually as not like a 2WD and 4WD) and again like the obsessed do gooder you are you try to spin doctor me. You cant fathom Iam not talking about a cars origins, but rather where most parts for it come from. Even if you try to justify that as being lame the locally produced car with whatever % of imported parts will still take administration within Australia HQ to produce and organise. Do you think Toyota give a damn about its slipping reputation… no they don’t – it is nothing more then just about the money but for some reason people like yourself just want to live in a vacuum filled with there own self opinions and obsessions – like you with TOYOTA! Get a reality check and support all car makers because whilst you think Iam a Ford Supporter – Iam not really as would get a Yaris over Focus over Mazda 2, would get an Aurion Sportivo over current Falcon (about 0.1% ahead of Commodore), would get a Kluger over a Territory or anything smaller, would get a Hyundai i30 over any similar Toyota as superior (as I advised evidence of this before on CARADVICE) as build quality high and inclusions and reliability high. Maybe you should get rid of your Toyota cult like TP and live in the real world and not your insular world!

AMEN MIKKA. You are absolutely grilling them… I cant see any points that I disagree with. The most recent point I particularly agree with is that regarding Toyotas ‘heritage’… in terms of enhancing our Australian society Toyotas pursuits in the ‘commercial’ world have given us FAR more then some motorsport. The problem with people here is they have a tendency to reguritate what they see in TV, they see V8 supercars on TV… Ford + Holden = Aussie… but neglect the fact that what you dont see is a Toyota in the majority of every working mans driveway. Mind you in recent years even with their passenger vehicles they are becoming more Aussie then the locals, look at sponsorships for example, you have Toyota sponsoring iconic Australian events such as the AFl… where are the locals? And of course on top of this they build many vehicles here and hey Id even predict given Holden and Fords sackings, in the near future (if not already?) they will be employing more Australians in the car industry then these ‘locals’.

On topic, I think the Hybrid issue has been addressesed… hybrids have a place, this is a fact whether you like it or not. The only thing I really want to see from Toyota is a decent looking Hybrid, the Pruius has sold relatively well given its appearance and price… I would imagine a ‘hot’ looking hybrid would go like hot cakes (esp with the celeb appeal it would get, better image, more sales)

If so many Australians are “over it” then why is it at the various V8 supercar events such as Bathurst and the Clipsal 500 they break attendance records year after year

People do have a choice they can also watch Brute Utes; Historics; Aussie Racers Formula Ford Formulaa 3; Drifitng; Drags; GT-P; Porsche; HQs; Thundersports; even Trucks.. but have you seen the crowds at these events compared to the V8s

And if you would care to read a copy of the V8 Supercars rules and regulations [of which I have a copy] you would see that Toyota and Mitsubishi are welcome to join the competition provided that their cars meet certain criteria.. which states that essentially the cars must be:

Australian Made RWD Family Sedans powered by a 5 Litre V8 which produces 620-700Bhp.

All forms of motorsport have similar criteria to ensure close competitive racing.

Infact when Toyota and Mitsubishi were planning on building new cars [Aurion and 380] Tony Cochrane approached both of them to see if they would like to join

Tom Phillips at Mitsubishi was interested as he believed Mitsubishi needed to make a new RWD car – but was given the boot by Tokyo. John Conomos at Toyota was also interested However; Tokyo had dictated that they were to concentrate on F1.

And unlike F1 which is run by Ferrari [with Bernie as their frontman]; AVESCO run the V8s.. they make a rule change and if the teams don’t like it.. Tough. For Example: the new smaller brake alcor rotors being used this year

Oh yeah these tossers who bag car racing dont believe in a proud long lasting Aussie heritage that is footballs, meat pies and kangaroos that goes way back before Toyota landed here DOWNUNDER – just goes to show how narrow minded these spin doctors are and how they really love there other half….TOYOTA (a business for $$$ little pups and not a cult).

You say that Ford and Holdens heritage for providing vehicles to those in industry isnt as good as Toyotas

I admit that in recent years Toyota has become more dominant in the bush. Yet as I said before Toyota has only been in Australia since 1958 whereas Ford started in 1925 and Holden was established in the early 1900s

Which means it was Ford and Holden who provided 1o00s of people with affordable reliable transport not to mention jobs before and after both wars as well as the depression.
Long before Toyota rocked up.

So they have a bigger part in Australia’s Social History, War History ; Economic History and Motorsport history than Toyota

Toyotas reputation in the bush has only really been established in the past 20 or so years – after farmers noticed that they do make a vehicle which is most suited to the rugged conditions and which lasts.

However longevity isn’t such a good thing because if you make something that lasts as more people buy them the annual turnover drops because they don’t need to be replaced as often.

Not only that but over the years a number of country towns have “died” as more people leave and head for the cities.
Therefore there isn’t as much money in the country as there was before.. so farmers are unable to buy new vehicles as often as before.

I understand that it’s mainly due to environmental conditions but unfortunately it looks as though things will only get worse for farmers in the future and the trend of people leaving and towns dying will continue.

And given that a fair percentage of toyotas sales figures are made up of commercial vehicles [4x4s] As sales of such vehicles in the bush drop so to will toyotas overall figures

And at the Tokyo Motorshow the 2IC at Toyota hinted that Toyota could close it’s Australian operations.. so even though it’s an eventful history it could be a short one

Oh and I congratulate Toyota on gaining the overall market lead – it only took them 50 odd years to do so

Andrew – Supercar attendances are good but the fact remains that it would be a shear amount greater with a more diverse array of manufactuers.

Once again – no amount of quibbling will ever errode the very basic facts.

When Nissan entered, their cars were so fast that they were made not once but twice to back-off on the boost and when they still continued conquering – regulators then started playing around with the weights of the cars.

Basically – the GTR was artificial retarded time after time just to bring them back into much slower pace of the V8 tourers. Then we all now all about the flood of tears from above and the very controversal change of rules afterwards.

Here is worth while snippet for you to read

Refer to WHEELS November 2006 Page 9.

Quote :

No-one doubts for a moment that Toyota or Mitsubishi for that matter, could build highly competitive cars to the V8 Supercar formula. Infact, given it’s satus as the world’s most profitable car maker, concerns about the depth of Toyota’s pockets is probably the real reason for it being denied access to v8 racing. That, and the fact that series organiser AVESCO would think carefully indeed about revisiting those days in the early ’90s when the all-conquering Nissan Skyline GTR’s mercilessly crushed the aspirations of local V8 fans.

unquote :

The US Companies it seems do care about the past. If they didn’t why would they continue to use or bring nack names like Camaro; GTO; Mustang; Cobra; Corvette; GT; Monaro; Torana or Charger even though the modern versions are nothing lije the originals in looks or performance. The reason funnily enough is because of Heritage.

These cars have a name that goes back in history and evokes memories of days gone by when the baby boomers who can now afford these cars were kids who dreamed of owning one.

To show you hao much of a role Heritage/History plays in the auto industry look what happened to Toyota when they dropped the Celicar/MR-2/Supra.. now are they looking at bringing it Back. because Just like GT and Monaro it’s a name that sells.

And another thing GM and Ford USA have just announced that Holden and Ford Australia are their new R&D centres for all RWD projects. Whereas I said previously the 2IC at Toyota has hinted at the possible closure of Toyotas local operations.

Which gives you an idea as to important the Australian Ops are to their respective Parent Companies

Wheelnut – you have a real weird way of looking at things.

Biulding durability will only see annual sales decline – do you see a problem with Toyota’s current sales at the moment because i sure as hell don’t. It’s because of Toyota’s rugged nature why poeple keep going back to them.

If you didn’t biuld them to last then people would simply go else were instead … pure and simple really.

Surely it’s not that hard to work out.

Yes – sadly for our nation some country towns have dwindled but just incase you haven’t noticed – this great nation of ours is within the mist of a resoure boom so many other country centres have literally boomed and not just that a steadily increasing percentage of our population are enjoying SUV’s / off-road compatible vehicles more now then they ever have before.

Once again – the obvious has flocked straight between your ears.

Why Toyota is selling so well is because they are strong right across their entire range of vehicles from light cars to bigger examples to SUV’s, Off-road vehicles and of course commercials.

This is were companies like Holden have died in the arse with because thier only true strength lies with the Commodore of which just happens to be within a dwindling market. The rest of Holden’s range is lame at the best with the Daewoo offerings and commericals not really striking a big note with the Australian population.

Captiva and Rodeo partially excepted.

This is were Toyota has been a lot wiser and most certianly a lot more intuitive within the market – cater for it all with quality, reliable, dependable and competitively packaged / priced vehicles supported by a solid marketing department and obviously they have striked that happy – medium balance quite well.

MIKKA SAYS…

Here is worth while snippet for you to read

Refer to WHEELS November 2006 Page 9.

Quote :

No-one doubts for a moment that Toyota or Mitsubishi for that matter, could build highly competitive cars to the V8 Supercar formula. Infact, given it’s satus as the world’s most profitable car maker, concerns about the depth of Toyota’s pockets is probably the real reason for it being denied access to v8 racing. That, and the fact that series organiser AVESCO would think carefully indeed about revisiting those days in the early ’90s when the all-conquering Nissan Skyline GTR’s mercilessly crushed the aspirations of local V8 fans.

unquote :

I have referred to motor racing in general and clearly not AVESCO. So I would appreciate your soap box stance and spouting on would contain clear quotes as you are full of your own self importance to suit you. Toyota had sports cars here before like MR2 and Supra…MIKKA show some courage and balls to talk about Toyota robbing these people of chance to buy these cars as it is heritage too. The MR2 back in the early 1990′s was hot and would still hold its style well today, same with GT4 Celica, so what Toyota did was redefine its range to suit what they percieved the public wants and thereby reducing the heritage and loyalty displayed to people who got these cars. These people have been deserted by Toyota! WHY as they want maximum profit with ot top off range inclusions.

High end cars and real performance equals different constraints and issues after sale – LOL Aurion TRD was tested and hassles and other cars removed from sale by Toyota in the past (MR2, GT4). Maybe Toyota plays it safe but having them not around. It does not matter so draws the line. As crude oil is high – others should do likewise.

Maximus – what ever … keep going.

What have you got for me next !!

Maximus – i have never on one single accassion ever denied that many ohter manufactuers are biulding thier regimes aswell.

All i have done is taken the time and effort to highlight the fact that Holden or Ford no longer rule the roost in the this nation and as the other companies grow in strength aswell – it is unlikely they ever will in the foreseeable future.

Basically – they have become nothing more then just ‘another’ automotive outfit inline with all the others so i think it is about time you Holdnm/Ford diehards learn to live with it and stop thinking they are so much more then all the others because quite frankly – there not … period.

NM & Co your being smashed here… leave the argument to save further embaressment. I dont think Ive seen one decent argument from the Ford camp here yet.

TP………What about the truth……

One of posts still is awaiting moderation in some of that I mention driving a hybrid might make you feel better for helping the environment, but a study of the most common alternative fuels claims diesel provides the greatest benefit to consumers and to society.

It may surprise those who associate diesels with smoke-belching 18-wheelers, but a cost-benefit analysis by the RAND Corp. finds so-called advanced diesel engines provide a slight edge over gas-electric hybrids and both leave E85 in the dust.

Even more surprising? The study claims that the high cost and resource-intensive means of producing and transporting E85 – a mixture of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline – makes it less beneficial to society than using straight gasoline.

TP (TOSSER PULLER). How dare you have the stupidity to declare Iam a Ford supporter. You like this DIKKA are just thriving on arguments. You and DIKKA should back off with ya crap and keep it neutral instead of your obsessive plugging TOYOTA crap.

Ok the 200th Post and Im guessing theres about 20 posts that have anything to do with the subject…..well done Mikka for keeping going for so long!!Im sure the sponsors of this site must be wondering if its a site about cars or Toyota and its supremacy!!!

No its not………I for one have been mesmerised into wanting another Toyota from all the brain washing thats been said.

So All Hail King Mikka……..I am selling the M3 OZ for several Priuses so I can keep them plugged in when I am using the other take my paper and bottles to recycleland I wont ever wash them cause that would be wasting water and will only ever use polluted air to fill the tyres so we can eliminate some of those bad fumes the V8s have been spuing into the air.

Our Heritage Fords will be replaced with a Australian Heritage Landcruiser or 2 or 3 ……..yes I know there not collectible yet but I am going to start a new trend! I think it will catch on……might start with White ones cause there the rarest! But no V8 ones just Diesel

I know Hubby wont be happy about selling the NEW Cobra that made him $23000 in a week because of there demand but I have seen the lights of the Toyota finally and and I’m mesmerized at how great they really really really are!

Im sure we will all rush to Bathurst this year to see the new Heritage TRD beat those crummy old over rated bogan Commodores and Fords……..I have even heard that Russell Ingal has left Morris to start his own Team TRT……..Toyota Russell Team! My new name will be Toyota Titalator on the site what do you think????? Toyota yummmm

Come on Bestest buddy Paul – let’s go.

Our war has been won here so lets just leave these silly people quibble away wondering what in hell just happened while we go and find another war zone.

HIGH FIVE BUDDY …

Cheers for the new year dude.

Woo hoo!

Oh and I don’t care what Toyota HQ says to Toyota F1……I think their doing an awesome job….Im sure the Team will lead the Championship and win this year so they won’t get closed down in 2010!!!!Go Toyota you rule!!

I appreciate the effort/aims of mainstreaming hybrid technology, but are you finished patting yourself on the back Mikka? Fine, then move on.

TP, it seems your main contribution was “go get `em Mikka… hyuk hyuk hyuk…. sic `em…. hyuk hyuk hyuk… yeah we got `em going now…. hyuk hyuk hyuk…. etc”

has toyota ever had a supercar??? not a tuner… but a super car that is good at all things fast and are still really nice and comfy????

GM = Z06
Ford = GT40…. i think it won 4 Le mans in a a row againest the likes of Ferreri and etc…

Toyota = ????

what about world rally champships???

Ford has the most successful rally team…

toyota = ????

has toyota australia ever built a world fatsest car ever… ford australia has… GT-HO Phrase III world fastest 4 door car in the world at that stage….

any world record or champships worth counting that toyota have won???

To Set the Record Straight in relation to the Richo/Skaife thing – [I was there as a Flaggie] and the crowed booed in way of protest to the officials; they didn’t understand the with the red flag rule race control go back to the previous full lap before the flag was displayed and therefore the GT-R won.

It wasn’t about the car or the Driver

The fans had/have nothing against Skaifey or Richo they love ‘em hence the nick name Gentleman Jim.. No one can drive a car in the wet at High speed as well as Jim not even Schuey. As his son Steve says “if it’s got wheels and an engine Dad has either driven it or wants to drive it.”

And the car; a number of my Ford and Holden mates were in awe of the performance of the GT-R. The problem was that as Freddie Gibson [who ran the Winfield team] said ” the GT-R was too good and “became a victim of its own success”

Jim Richards said that he could understand why the changes were made and the GT-R was eventually banned because “no-one likes to go to a race to see whos going to come second”

Haa Paul … check out all the vultures who have braved a return to the battle zone once the almight conquering Toyota Soldiers vacated the field.

They have a few little pop shots left in ‘em but with all the smouldering fires about they don’t have a clue what they are shooting at.

Anyway pal – lets go the pub for a few cold chilled ales while these clowns siff through the rubble for any memorbilla.

WARNING : Be careful of any unexploded bombs …

chops – Toyota were the all mighty conquering champions in the World Rally Championships (WRC) when they vacated premises while our local TRD team are the Australian Rally Championships (ARC) running complete rings around Ford and everyone else. Infact, they just won every single round in 2007.

Other championships – American Truck Racing (on US soil … OOOCH) and won that in 2007 – again and yet another win in the Japanese 24 hr GTP to name only 3.

ooops …. there was one !!

Talk about B1 and B2. No better…Dumb and Dumber firing blanks….would you look at that, the mountain or the Holy Grail was American Truck Champs and inferior other little Champs as there gasping fo air reply like a fish out of water.

Mate watch the movie as between the pair of you clowns you annoy a lot only cause you lurve your girlfriend Missy T…… and cannot bear to be less devoted to it.

Hybrids will be a starting point. A weak start – but it will improve a lot and new technology will replace hybrids and lets just hope they nail some classy sporty numbers. Diesels are overated and not the answer. LPG is good but too short term. Hybrids offer more advantages in short to medium term. But in medium term fossil fuels need to be eliminated from the car and transport industry.

Hey NM………I read something today that they are going to stop looking into the development of performance Hybrids!!!

Re diesels I have just emailed you something that you will find interesting…….cheers

Haha Mikka couldnt have said it any better myself… they stay low while the shells come flying in cowering in their fox holes… now they come out firing away but the only problem is, the war is over and its to late, the Toyota camp has won it.

No-Name I dont have to contribute anything more when you have Mikka destroying the Ford camp, Ive had my time arguing and Ive won a few battles myself… now Mikka has a won a few battles and Id say this war is all but won. The only problem is the insurgents remain, the people who were cowards to attack originally but now go around looking at tiny insignificant details.

well i havent read the last day or two’s comments in great deatil, but it looked like just repeats anyway and i couldnt be bothered.

Mikka,
mate, toyota DO NOT supply australia with a diesel or LPG alternative passenger vehicle which is contrary to what you like to think. th eonly one they supply us is hybrids.

the Prius isnt so invincible when it comes to consumption as you think either. the hyundai and peugeot are pretty much right with it and as i pointed out that is without the use of hybrid technology. i’d prefer the diesel because it offers little or no compromise on performance like the prius does and the hyundai for eg is half the price of the prius making it also probably the most economical motorvehicle we have here in OZ

oh and you keep going on about how good toyotas commercial vehicles are, then how come the hilux didnt rank first in the 4X4 magazine review? they also explain what the test the vehicles went through as 2500ks of australias harshest outback terrain.
once again it proves just that it is another perception that toyota vehicles are un touchable because they obviously are

There you go again patting yourself on the back! Bring on next week! Oh and is that prizes???????? That mistake was priceless!!hahahaha

OK – no prices for 3rd place either.

^^^^^
that is you listen to what other people say and you acknowledge when they say something interesting or they are right

Ooooh … i am so excited.

We should all find out about Decembers cars sales (and lasts year total figure) soon so i am beside myself with anticipation.

Paul … are you just as excited as i am because soon well be able start some more fun at the expense of these clowns.

ooooh …. i have shivers down my spine.

ah let the kids play with themselves because that is all they are fooling (themselves)

Mikka and TP,
it was a one sided battle where you ran around in the room dancing and waving broomsticks in the air stabbing at pretend soldiers only amongst yourselves.

Never did you once open the door and come out from your safe place to face the full affects of a battle.

Our rocks were constantly hitting your cabin where you dance but all you did was hide under the table and cover your ears and then pop your head up and pretend you didnt hear anything else going on.

along with your december issue of vehicle sales dont forget to frame and hang your certificate from fleet sales Aust recognising your continued efforts to heavily discounting vehicles.

and sales means what by the way?????
certainly not a better vehicle as you are so quick to point out when the commodore takes the gong

awaiting a silly “we won we won” comment……………