Revenue raising at its finest
November 28, 2007 by Paul Maric
- Editor’s Note (23/12/07): CarAdvice is still waiting to hear back from the Victorian Department of Justice. The letter sent out on behalf of CarAdvice to the Victorian Department of Justice has permitted for a 14 business day response time. The Victorian Police on the other hand have responded.
Although they won’t permit us to reproduce the e-mail online, the media liaison has called CarAdvice a “biased editorial,” we have also “made no attempt to include include any facts” in the article outlined below – according to the media liaison. So, much like yourselves, we are yet to determine exactly why a Police vehicle was inhibiting the flow of pedestrians and cyclists, making it dangerous for their passage.
The only response we were permitted to publish is the following, courtesy of Natalie Webster, the Media Officer for Victoria Police, “The only response we will provide for you to publish is that anyone who seeks further information on traffic camera operations can find it on our website at http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=10366.” If any of our readers have any luck finding the section about Police vehicles causing unsafe passage for members of the public, please e-mail us, as we are yet to determine the need or reason for the vehicle’s position.
- Editor’s Note (05/12/07): CarAdvice is awaiting written response from the Victorian Department of Justice with regards to the concealment of a mobile speed camera. CarAdvice is also currently awaiting a response from the Victorian Police with regards to the Police vehicle being positioned on a footpath. We aim to keep you posted with developments as they come to hand.
Have you ever had to pull over on the highway? Be it for a telephone call, a flat tyre, or maybe even because you had run out of petrol?
During a recent road test, a tyre had managed to go flat while driving on a stretch of highway just outside of Melbourne. So the logical thing to do was pull over as far to the left as possible and take the old tyre off and replace it with a spare.
Pulling off the highway, I received the absolute shock of my life when a Toyota Corolla appeared out of nowhere. I received an even greater shock when I realised it was a mobile speed camera operator who had parked the vehicle behind a set of trees, virtually invisible to all drivers on the road, right up until the point at which they are side-by-side with the vehicle.
Not only was the positioning of this mobile speed camera unsafe, it was also in direct contravention of the “Victorian Police Traffic Camera Office Mobile Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual.” The aforementioned document can be sourced here.
Of particular concern is the final section of the document detailing the information below (see page 11 of Mobile Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual, under the section titled “Camera Concealment/Disguise.”)
Camera Concealment/Disguise:
To maintain community confidence in the mobile speed camera initiative, it is important for the operational use of the device to be seen as fair and reasonable. Under no circumstances are camera vehicles, tripods or portable flash units (when used) to be disguised by signs, logos, breakdown of vehicle (eg. boot open or spare wheel/jack visible), tree branches, lamp posts, rubbish bins or any other covert means.
The operator of the mobile speed camera has clearly broken the operational guidelines issued by the Victorian Department of Justice. CarAdvice would like to see all fines issued by the mobile speed camera in question refunded immediately and the site removed from the register. It begs the question, how many more illegal sites like these are in use? How many unsuspecting individuals is the Victorian Government robbing each and every day?
The other issue that has ruffled feathers today is the astonishing use of a speed radar on a public footpath – right outside a sporting facility and convention of people for an event. The undercover Police vehicle pictured is blocking enough of the footpath to make it hard for a cyclist to get through – even causing them to fumble past.
Matters were made even worse when the occupying plain-clothed Police officer got out of the car and questioned our photographer. The officer started getting quite rowdy when the photographer informed him of his legal right to take photos on public property. The officer also refused to believe he was blocking the footpath with his vehicle and claimed that (after flashing his badge) he could do as he pleased – because he was a Police officer.
So next time you’re out riding your bike, or going for a stroll, please make sure you watch out for cars parked on the footpath on official…life saving…Police business.
Print it: 
Glen:
I think the only idiot here is you.
Why on earth would a cyclist be stupid enough to ride on the road in that traffic – and with a Police car parked illegally with parts hanging out onto the road?
I think it’s laughable that you suggest they shouldn’t use the footpath. Is that because there is a Police car parked on it???!!! Hah.
EBF – you don’t seem to know the law very well. Police don’t need to provide you with their name, station, or rank unless they ask you for yours. Nor can you approach a police officer who hasn’t asked you for your details. Oh, and please, I’m interested to find out under what law police are required to provide their “badge number”. Well? Sounds like you’ve been reading the Legal Aid advice booklet.
And again, you still neglect to see that police aren’t “above” the law. You are all saying police are breaking the law. Well which law? You seem to be forgetting one thing… although none of you are smart enough to work it out.
This Cam joker is one of two things; a non driver or a blatant liar. If he drives – he has surely exceeded the speed limit at least once in his life, even it was to rush someone to a hospital or make an appointment.
The word Speed implies dangerous driving. I have driven many times in Europe at 170km/h for hours on end and on roads no better than those highway stretches from Sydney to Melbourne.
What gives in this country?
As a responsible 20 year old driver, i am shocked by others on the road. You try to do the speed limit and some smart guy decides to tail gate you to the point where you are pressured to go faster to avoid an accident. I think it’s a team effort, everyone needs to realise the importance of obeying the speed limit. It’s a catch 22, do the limit and risk pissing off people which in turn makes is a dangerous driving environment. Speed and risk your life and others which also creates a dangerous environment
I think it’s unfair to be booked 1-2km/h over the limit but i have no sympathy for anyone who decides to exceed the limit considerably. Unfortunately this kind of driver is very common in today’s world.
Luke:
You sound like the typical right lane hog. I too would sit up your arse if you were in the right hand lane holding up traffic.
As Tony said, Europe – in particular Germany – is a prime example of how we should drive and why the lack of driver education has placed us as one of the worst nations to drive in. A bunch of paranoid folk who won’t speed because they think the second they exceed the limit, everyone is going to die.
It’s the driver – and their lack of education – that kills, not speed.
The questions are are the Police breaking the law? In the first picture involving the speed camera NO! It is part of their Standard Operating Procedures and not a written law. Its an internal issue only. In the second photo where they are parked on the footpath YES! and is a traffic matter.
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The question you need to ask is, am i a law abiding citizen? If YES….then none of this should even bother you! Who cares if the cops hide the camera car, they aren\’t going to catch u, just the speeding idiot that might take u or ur family out!
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If the cops are on the footpath duing their duty, again, who honestly cares??? One of the captions mock them saying that they must be on \”Official lifesaving duties.\” Well they are. Look at the roadway…where are they supposed to park so that they can perform lidar on speeders???
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Imagine that its your neighbourhood and that ur wife/husband picks up ur kids after school then travels down this road everyday to go home. Everyday the Police are parked here at the same time to curb speeders, so u take photo\’s and put in a complaint. Next thing the cops are dragged upto the bosses office and get into strife. What do u think they are thinking, \”We ain\’t going their again! We will get a complaint\” So the next day thay park in some obscure side street so as not to generate complaints. Ur wife/husband with the kids is travelling down the same strecth of road. A young kid who has just got his licence (and this is not a representation of all young dirver\’s) and is inexperienced is doing 220 down the road to show off to his mates. 500 meters past where the cops normally sit he hits ur families car and kills them! If the cops had been their he would have been pulled over straight away, his licence confiscated, I would arrest him for drive manner dangerous and charge him so that he looks at gaol time or a severe sentence. Either way, he has been stopped and ur family is safe….NOW DO U CARE THAT THE COPS WERE PARKED THEIR???? If ur law abiding….is it hurting u if they are parked their??? OF COURSE NOT!!
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And every idiot who says \”get their badge number\” \”make a complaint\”. I\’ll tell u what that does because it has happened where I work. Obviously I am a Cop! We have a neighbourhood plagued by break and enters, cars getting stolen/broken into, people are bashed and robbed daily. So we patrol everyday. The crime rate dropped dramatically. The locals started to complain that we were speeding as we drove through. I had one come out and yell at me to slow down. I was doing 20k\’s in their 50 k zone. After we all got dragged into the boses office what did we say?? \”Well we aint going their again, we get into trouble.\” So now we go nowhere near the neighbourhood, and guess what, roberries are up, their houses are getting broken into again, and the place is trashed by graffetti and abondoned/stolen cars.
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Everyone complains that we take hours to get to ur complaints and that they drive past the station to see 10 cop cars out the front. half of those are recalled to the station to see the boss and answer complaints. Next time u call us and it takes us ages to get their, its probably because we have been in the boses office getting torn a new a**hole. U complaint that we dont patrol area\’s, again, we are tied up being interviewed, doing reports over complaints. U have no idea the amount of paperwork that goes into answering those complaints. We are treated worse than crimes beleive me!
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I think that the cops have been judged far too harshly on this site. Cops that steal, assault people, deal drugs etc, get rid of them, i dont want to work with them, but if they hide a camera car or park on a footpath to do their job effectively, well WHO CARES! i was disgusted by some of the responses made by some of the people on here about the cops. U should support and gives us thanks. We love it. When i get told that im doing a great job, i want to go out their and hlp the next person, i feel great. I read some of the comments here, and I think why do I bother, might aswell quite. And it is for this reason that we are losing some great cops! Next time u see us, stop us and thanks us, believe me we appreciate it!
As far as revenue rasisng, I dunno how it works in Vic, but here in NSW we are given the Camera car, and the command/station determines the most effective place for it to be used. We look at where speeding is a consitant problem, where we get the most complaints about speeding driver’s, and where accidents frequently occur attributed to speed. We target main roads that are known for speeder’s, because when they crash, they will take out a hell of a lot of other people first. We then target those locations. Thats how it works at my station anyway. Do we get the money made off these speed camera’s, NOT A CENT! Does it go to the cops or better yet my pocket, NO! Do I care how much money the camera gives to the government….NOT REALLY! If I park the car or hide the car and it starts to make people paranoid and slows them down, do i feel great YES! Have i saved lives by doing this??? MORE THAN LIKELY! Thats how it is from a Police perspective! Does the government use it for revenue rasing???DEFINATELY! Are the cops going to knockback a tool that can be used to save lives…NO! We use whatever we can get!
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Some people, and I know Grumps said it, don’t think that they work! Thats some peoples opinion and they are entitled to think that, and they may very well be spot on! I think that they DEFINATELY do reduce road trauma. Maybe not on a grand scale but if they can be used to save one life its worth having them!
Anon, the last time I saw a cop he was handing me a speeding ticket, the time before that, he was handing me a speeding ticket… the time before that.. u can see where this is going… I protest all my speeding tickets (because I believe them unjustified), the more paper work for you, the less speeding tickets is how I see it. Money isn’t the issue, its the fact that speed cameras dont save lives.
Back when I used to own a store premises, we had a break in, I called the cops, they showed up five hours later and instead of doing anything useful, they gave me a parking ticket for parking my car on the footpath (what would u do when u have a break and enter, and there are no car parks, and u cant leave the store to move ur car?)
So next time you are about to give a speeding ticket for a minor amount, how about you give the guy a break? I wish cops would get back to being cops and help stop crime, people below 30 have lost all utter respect for you guys, you have all turned into sour traffic police – do something useful.
Just because you can’t get promoted to something more useful doesn’t mean u have to take it out on us! The police service is now on par with used car salesmen, can’t be trusted.
Anon, please stop with the nonsense.
There was a time I had respect for cops, these days all they do is drive around and try and find some poor bastard doing an illegal u turn or going 65 in a 60 zone. Give us a break, saving lives? Please, we are no idiots here.
This is one of the only websites that stands up to the police while the rest are too scared, and here you are, as a police officer, criticising it.
Someone has to point out the absolute BS that takes place with speed cameras, what you dont realize is that for most of us, losing our license can be like losing our jobs and even family. Going 65 in a 60 zone doesn’t make me a criminal and sure as hell doesnt mean i cant drive,
why not target idiots that cant drive? Why not target elderly drivers that randomly change lanes without knowing, how can you tell me they dont cause accidents and going 5ks over does?
You cops are a joke, all your hard work as real police officers is ruined by your involvement with Speed cameras.
I would be ashamed to be a traffic cop.
Does anyone know where the speed camera was parked, or the day. Also since when did they start using corollas?
Adam:
Well said!
The scenarios Anon keeps blurting out are total rubbish. Driving 220 in a 50 zone cannot even remotely compare to getting booked for driving 63 in a 60 zone, it’s an absolute joke.
Why is it that I NEVER see Police on the road when someone passes me at double my speed? I only ever see cameras/Police booking people for the tiniest amount over the speed limit.
And what about this – http://www.caradvice.com.au/76.....d-at-work/ – why the hell are Police allowed to speed?
What makes them such better drivers than the rest of us? Absolute joke.
It really, REALLY amazes me that there are so many people who have these wayward opinions that are driving on our roads.
Why can’t people simply understand that a requirement for driving on a road is that you obey the rules? If the sign says “60″, you don’t go more than “60″ – get it? If you don’t like it then catch public transport!
And to those that say “I can’t loose my licence, I need it for work”, well it really is simple – obey the road rules and you won’t loose your licence! HOW HARD IS THAT?
To those that say the current speeds are too slow and ‘danagerous’, or that you can do faster speeds in other countries – I say to you tough titties. If you want higher sped limits then petition the local councils and Governments – but until it does get changed please stop driving like a moron and obey the rules.
If a sign says “60″ and you are doing “65″ then no, you are not a criminal – but you are breaking a traffic law, and so yes, you deserve to be punished. IT IS SIMPLE. Why should the rest of us obey the rules and you get away with breaking them?
And to those that continue to whinge and whine about speed cameras – please, get off your high horses. Speed cameras are there is catch speeders. Simple. Will they save a life? Maybe. Will they reduce road tramua? Maybe as well. Will it catch the people who refuse to obey the road rules and drive at the speed LIMIT? YES!
Speed cameras are there to catch speeders. Every road user knows there may be a camera somewhere. If you don’t want to get caught then DON’T SPEED!
People like Adam and Jason are PURE MORONS. They think that they are above the law. And for ur info, i’m not a traffic cop, im general duties and rarely hand out traffic tickets!
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If u guys have lost respect for the cops thats fine, from the sounds of ur replies u are both IDIOTS anyway and I don’t want respect from the likes of people like u. I would rather the respect of hard working decent people who can abide by the law. Jason, the fact that u admit to getting ticket after ticket shows that u obviously can’t drive and hopefully one day u will lose ur licence so that u don’t cntinue to put other drivers at risk. When I’m pulling dead bodies out of cars, the thing thats going through my mind is how u speeding IDIOTS dont give a dam about anyone but urselves and u should be made to pay. The fines need to be tripled if u ask me.
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U winge because we turned up to ur break and enter 5 hours later. the poor cop was probably in the station getting reemed because of ur complaint that they have parked on the footpath or something. Of course we have turned into traffic cops, everyone winges about us an puts in complaints so we have lost any interest in helping people. What do we get for our troubles. U think i’m going to put my life on the line for u…UR A WINGER! Crying because police park on a footpath. U need to get a life…SERIOUSLY. If u have got that much time to complain about something so trivial, and thats what it is, then u need a hobby!
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If u think there’s such a thing as safe speeding then u are wrong! Every K over the limit exaggerates the fore of impact, the damage and the injuries. So speeding does kill. So two cars hitting at 5 K’s is the say as two cars hitting at 220 k’s is. If u honestly believe that speeding doesn’t kill then it shows ur level of intelligence.
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People who feel the need to stand up to cops are always the ones that are criminals or are always on the recieving end of ticket eg: jason. Thats why ur disatisfied with us. Others who are law abiding never come into contact with us a rarely complain!
Anon:
You have clearly shown your lack of intelligence. High school physics is enough to understand the correlation between speed and the force of impact.
You are making several assumptions with your claims that ’speed kills’. Do you understand that cars like HSVs, FPVs, Ferraris, Aston Martins, Lamborghinis and a raft of other high performance cars are fitted with larger and more capable brakes.
So, you’re telling me that humble old Grandpa Joe who has slow reaction times and is driving an ancient Toyota Corolla with no active safety features is safe driving at the speed limit?
You do know that the aforementioned cars could stop in half the distance of this Corolla. So by that assumption, they should drive 1/3 faster than the Corolla because they are safer and can stop quicker.
Anon, only a moron falls for the ’speed kills’ mentality. You sound like a sheep.
Speed DOESN’T KILL. Morons who can’t drive kill. The sooner you realise that, the sooner you will stop looking like a clueless sheep.
That is right!
Guys,
Big thing everyone have forgotten is that in Victoria speed cameras are not operated by police officers but by a private company. The unmarked car on the footpath is not a camera car and the Police officer there may have been doing a targeted police operation and the only safe place to park was on the footpath. Which under the australian road rules Police. Fire and Ambulance are exempt from some road rules in the execution of their duty.
SA is the same they are not operated by Police officer but Police security services.
Admittedly I wish that the governments of Australia did come out and say that speed cameras are for revenue raising and are placed in positions where crashes have regularly occurred. The fact people are getting caught shows that the stretch of road is an area where people regularly speed.
My advice is if you do not wishto contribute to the government coffers Dont Speed. For interest sake in SA if I got zapped by a camera I have to justify why I was speeding and if it was not for a legit reason which is in my log book or going to a task from Police comms, I get the fine and have to pay it. If it is a significant speed I have to go to court over it.
Benjie….U R A RETARD! I cant be bothered arguing with u. I have to deal with enough inbreed, uneducated dipshits at work, without having to deal with another one in my off time. Believe what u want I really couldn’t care less to be honest. Its dumb ppl like u that get caught out in the end.
Speed does kill….if two cars hit at 5 k’s……and another two cars hit at 220 k’s, ur telling me their’s going to be no difference in the impact. Maybe when you complete high school, u can come back and educate me on ‘High School Physics’
Whilst ur at school, maybe learn how to read…because i’d like to know where it is that I have said that “humble old Grandpa Joe who has slow reaction times” isn’t a risk on the road. The only comment I made was that speeding does kill. So does alot of factors, shitbox car, inexperienced driver, lots of things kill…..and so does speed.
Ur the one saying that speed doesnt kill, but where is ur evidence??? I investigates prangs for a living, I have worked in the crash unit. I have text books amongst text books which will prove u wrong. Instead of coming on here and boasting unsubstantiated claims, why dont u back it up with some facts..MORON!
I’d like to know exactly what experience u have to be able to make such uneducated remarks and claims. If u can show me how when two speeding cars collide and the occupants die, that the speed is not a contributing factor then i’ll appologise. It is always a factor….therefore it contributes to the death and has KILLED! It’s not rocket science, but then again look who i’m talking to.
Anyway, continue walking around with ur head up ur arse! One day u’ll be flying around and u’ll come unstuck and crash. I just hopes its in my area so that I can attend and see the dumbfounded look on ur face!
Anon:
No offense, but I’m not the one who can’t spell and I’m also not the one who is a Police officer – so it’s barely appropriate to be calling me “uneducated” and a “retard.” Generally people stoop to personal attacks when they realise they have nothing appropriate or intelligent to come back with, you seem to have checked both boxes.
Anon, you’re assuming that two people speeding drive around with the intention of hitting each other – at speed. Speeding does not kill, speeding when appropriate is not a contributing factor to accidents.
Drink driving, inattentiveness and lack of ability are all contributing factors to major car accidents. I have never heard of one single car accident in Australia that has solely been caused by speeding – not one. Accidents occur when people exceed their level of ability or are impaired by drugs or alcohol. Accidents don’t occur simply because somebody goes 5km/h over the speed limit.
Anon, you have to understand that I don’t advocate doing 200km/h in a 50 zone with children around the place. I’m simply saying that if conditions permit and the driver is capable, that it’s entirely appropriate to sit on 130km/h on a 100km/h highway. In fact, I do so on regular occasions – when people aren’t hogging the right hand lane.
People who look ahead, people who are capable of controlling a vehicle – and most important of all, a capable vehicle – at the type of drivers we need on the road.
It’s a proven fact that speeding isn’t the sole factor of deaths on our roads – this can be proven by looking at the many Autobahns in Germany and seeing how intelligent driving can permit for greater speeds.
Unfortunately, the lack of driver training, lack of ability and overzealous Nazi traffic Police make it nigh on impossible for people to drive sensibly above the speed limit.
Anon, please feel free to provide any proof that speeding actually kills. As I said, I’m yet to read any scientific journals or notes that backup your claims of speed being the sole factor in so many deaths on our roads.
Please leave the personal jibes at the door, they really don’t do much for your credibility.
Anon please refrain from personal attacks and bad language or face being banned, for someone who is a police officer arguing for speed cameras, I am sure you can manage without swearing.
As for evidence, here it is again:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/67.....-official/
keep it clean.
Benjie,I agree with most of what you have said in your last post.When we all tone it down it assists in getting our messages across.
The arguement re Autobahns standard roads transplanted to this country has been reiterated time & again.
I guess if the taxpayer base can bear to pay for an investment in reengineering roads to a level that enables 130-140km/h minimum then well & good.Australia isn’t there & we havent even duplicated the Hume entirely.
Best of luck trying to get roads of this standard here.
Then we would need to work on other issues.
Australian road manners are poor,lane changing & merging skills at times are mediocre,inability to maintain a constant speed is another.
Tailgating is a nationwide problem does not solve anything
& NO I am not the rh lane hog.Try the Geelong Road any Sunday arvo Melbourne bound in heavy traffic & you will have someone on your arse at the speed limit or at a speed appropriate to the conditions in any lane.
I am surprised that anyone would admit to this dangerous practice.
Hazard perception is another.I recall on another thread some twit who admitted to doing 180k’s on the Monash REGULARLY.This guy has a death wish.He no doubt sees himself as one ace driver but I doubt he even thinks about his reaction time before he even moves his foot towards the brake pedal & the distance travelled at this speed before braking commences.If a hazard appears 100m away at this speed he is good as dead.
In the end it is the sudden stop that kills which is proportional to the speed attained before the sudden stop occurred.
The arguement could go on & on.Speed limits & cameras of increasing sophistication are here to stay.Get used to it.
Take it easy over Christmas New Year.
This debate is pointless and I am closing this thread.
For those of you arguing that we should not cover speed-camera related news, this is not going to happen.
All of us at CarAdvice feel strongly about Speed Cameras – and the fact that they don’t save lives, yes excessive speed increases the chance of an accident but sending a photo 2 weeks later with a fine does little to help,
Bad driving is what needs to be fixed, more needs to be done to tackle the real problems, which is limited driver skills.