Revenue raising at its finest
November 28, 2007 by Paul Maric
- Editor’s Note (23/12/07): CarAdvice is still waiting to hear back from the Victorian Department of Justice. The letter sent out on behalf of CarAdvice to the Victorian Department of Justice has permitted for a 14 business day response time. The Victorian Police on the other hand have responded.
Although they won’t permit us to reproduce the e-mail online, the media liaison has called CarAdvice a “biased editorial,” we have also “made no attempt to include include any facts” in the article outlined below – according to the media liaison. So, much like yourselves, we are yet to determine exactly why a Police vehicle was inhibiting the flow of pedestrians and cyclists, making it dangerous for their passage.
The only response we were permitted to publish is the following, courtesy of Natalie Webster, the Media Officer for Victoria Police, “The only response we will provide for you to publish is that anyone who seeks further information on traffic camera operations can find it on our website at http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=10366.” If any of our readers have any luck finding the section about Police vehicles causing unsafe passage for members of the public, please e-mail us, as we are yet to determine the need or reason for the vehicle’s position.
- Editor’s Note (05/12/07): CarAdvice is awaiting written response from the Victorian Department of Justice with regards to the concealment of a mobile speed camera. CarAdvice is also currently awaiting a response from the Victorian Police with regards to the Police vehicle being positioned on a footpath. We aim to keep you posted with developments as they come to hand.
Have you ever had to pull over on the highway? Be it for a telephone call, a flat tyre, or maybe even because you had run out of petrol?
During a recent road test, a tyre had managed to go flat while driving on a stretch of highway just outside of Melbourne. So the logical thing to do was pull over as far to the left as possible and take the old tyre off and replace it with a spare.
Pulling off the highway, I received the absolute shock of my life when a Toyota Corolla appeared out of nowhere. I received an even greater shock when I realised it was a mobile speed camera operator who had parked the vehicle behind a set of trees, virtually invisible to all drivers on the road, right up until the point at which they are side-by-side with the vehicle.
Not only was the positioning of this mobile speed camera unsafe, it was also in direct contravention of the “Victorian Police Traffic Camera Office Mobile Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual.” The aforementioned document can be sourced here.
Of particular concern is the final section of the document detailing the information below (see page 11 of Mobile Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual, under the section titled “Camera Concealment/Disguise.”)
Camera Concealment/Disguise:
To maintain community confidence in the mobile speed camera initiative, it is important for the operational use of the device to be seen as fair and reasonable. Under no circumstances are camera vehicles, tripods or portable flash units (when used) to be disguised by signs, logos, breakdown of vehicle (eg. boot open or spare wheel/jack visible), tree branches, lamp posts, rubbish bins or any other covert means.
The operator of the mobile speed camera has clearly broken the operational guidelines issued by the Victorian Department of Justice. CarAdvice would like to see all fines issued by the mobile speed camera in question refunded immediately and the site removed from the register. It begs the question, how many more illegal sites like these are in use? How many unsuspecting individuals is the Victorian Government robbing each and every day?
The other issue that has ruffled feathers today is the astonishing use of a speed radar on a public footpath – right outside a sporting facility and convention of people for an event. The undercover Police vehicle pictured is blocking enough of the footpath to make it hard for a cyclist to get through – even causing them to fumble past.
Matters were made even worse when the occupying plain-clothed Police officer got out of the car and questioned our photographer. The officer started getting quite rowdy when the photographer informed him of his legal right to take photos on public property. The officer also refused to believe he was blocking the footpath with his vehicle and claimed that (after flashing his badge) he could do as he pleased – because he was a Police officer.
So next time you’re out riding your bike, or going for a stroll, please make sure you watch out for cars parked on the footpath on official…life saving…Police business.
Print it: 
Ha ha! Great pictures, would love to hear back from the idiots as to why it was parked there. I’d imagine it happens frequently, wish more people would take photos, surely we can stand up to this rubbish.
As for the idiotic police officer, how come they will go and give tickets to anyone parked even remotely on the footpath, yet they do it themselves?
day by day i love this site even more
not only for the great reviews but a place where the community can stand up against the police. You have legit evidence of police breaking the laws. Kudos on the great work and may the new labor government do something about this clear violation of justice( false hope i know)
Ps- i would park my car right in front of the police and see what they do- no emergency situation so no right to park on a footpath- i would love to argue that in court!
a while ago here in wa a ranger issued a speed camera opperator with a parking ticket for setting up in a no parking zone. the matter went to court and was thrown out. why must we suffer this bullshit. it sickens me to feel so powerless
guys, fantastic article..i cant believe they get away with this. we as australians dont protest enough and i think your evidence should be taken further in the cour or even to current affairs to get the message out.
i dont see any safety benifit in the way the vic police have acted in this situation.
Caradvice just keeps getting better and better….keep up the good work
Yet another disgusting display of arrogance by our ‘finest’. Well done CarAdvice – keep the bast*rds honest.
But Your Honour, the life saving is working – it must be, because we are all alive to discuss this….
Can I suggest that in future, if approached by a cop, request his or her’s name, badge number and local police station, then publish it here so that we can write formal complaints.
Some of them need to realise that they aren’t above the law.
“Here, Here!”
As much as I dislike the way this site is anti-police and all these articles have NOTHING to do with CAR NEWS or REVIEWS – I have to agree these two examples are disturbing.
The camera car hiding is wrong but not all that bad – after all, if you don’t speed you don’t have anything to worry about.
However the car on the footpath is certainly just plain arrogance.
I ssume (once again) that the authors of these articles have reported these matters to the police ombudsman for further investigation, rather than just having a whinge.
I’d also like to suggest that these articles should be put in the RANTS and RAVES section, rather than the front page that should be solely for car news and reviews.
Sporting facility? On High Street Belmont??! Where? There is a run down old community hall under the highway. Generally the only sport going on in High Street is who can get to KFC quicker!
Hahaha…Well done.
EBF got it right, next time ask for their name, badge no. and police station. This should give them enough worry to behave as a real Policeman…
Grumps – I assume by your comment you’re a cop or ex-cop? I read CA a lot and find it great that someone has the b*lls to say it as it is.
Regardless, the police/camera operators have a charter or set of rules to abide by JUST LIKE THE REST OF US have the law to obey.
If those who uphold the law cannot obey it (and lead by example), then why should the rest of us be expected to do so. Double standards? Hmmmm…..
Make a official complaint to Victorian Police, attn. Christine Nixon
Tell her to lose some weight too, LOL!
Oh, and her beach house is WAY overpriced, but i am interested all the same!
Cheers
F-0
Grumps, the issue here is not to cop bash, it is that something wrong is happening. I’m sure I speak for most of us when I say that we appreciate and value the service most police offer to the community every day, BUT when they break the rules, the public has the right to know and they should be dealt with in the same way as an average person.
Grumps thats the problem with a lot of people they think because they arent speeding they’re safer than people who do. I think i person who drives to the conditions is a lot safer driver than the person who constantly is looking at the speedo.
Plus if speed cameras are there to “save lives and slow people down” wouldnt they be more effective if people can see them rather than just try and catch people. Thats just revenue raising in my opinion, if they are in plain site and someone gets pinged legally than ive got not problems but all cameras are on straight roads or freeways. If they are there to save lives wouldnt you place a camera just b4 a known dangerous curve rather than down a straight hill. At least people will slow down for that curve because we all know that everyone speeds up as soon as they pass the camera.
This site rules!
Guys,
You have a golden opportunity on your hands. Contact one of the current affairs shows and see if they would like to do a story with your photos. They get a good story and you get to give it to the camera operators and promote your site. Lot’s of people watch this stuff and I bet you guys would have more traffic the next day.
Keep up the great work!!
Casey – yes, I am an ex-HWP copper (as I have mentioned before). As I also said, I am not especially impressed by the unmarked car parking on the footpath. Should he get a ticket for it? Yes.
If CarAdvice wants to put stuff like this on the site I think it should be in the Rants & Rave section. I come here to read about new cars, not stuff that everyone in the world knows happens.
What about car reviewers. Do they stick to the speed limit and obey every law when testing a new car. Of course not, so where are those stories?
How about putting some good cop stories up like when they catch some berk doing 190km/h in a 60 zone. Or when they take a drunk/drug driver off the road?
Ben – no arguments there. If a cop breaks the law, and it wasn’t in the execution of their duty, by all means they should be (and are) dealt with like everyone else.
Glen – mate I hate speed cameras as much as anyone. I have said in other posts that I have always been totally against them. As far as I am concerned they are revenue raisers and serve no purpose other than that.
Being stopped by a cop and given a ticket immediately is a much stronger deterrent.
Let me also state that I have worked with some of the biggest morons ever to put on a uniform. Was I proud to know that these idiots were representing us? Of course not, but the bad things always stay in people’s minds. Are all HWP officers bastards. No, I worked with some of the most conscientous and polite guys you could know, who were dedicated (as was I) to keeping our roads safe.
I would just like to see CarAdvice balance these stories, or at the very least confirm that an official complaint has been made, rather than just “having a go” at the cops in general.
That’s enough for now :)
I agree Grumps. I don’t like it when cops do this sort of thing, but they do a damn good job in general.
And I’m pretty sure getting a few speeding tickets in the mail is a good deterant for speeders. If the cameras are in completely open locations, everyone just slows down for it, then speeds back up. Achieves very little. As long as they aren’t on stretches of road where it is safe to roll down a hill for example, I don’t have a problem with using speed cameras.
And Simon I despise those current affairs programs. Most of their stories are absolute BS, blatantly one-sided, and many are resolved prior to them showing it!!
Grumps the front page is as good a place as any to share this article as it is pertinent to the car enthusiasts who freuqent this site.
And you cannot tell me that you yourself as part of ‘its my job’ have not pinged someone for doing 130K/hr on a freeway that is clearly made to handle speeds higher than that can you? A place where driving at the posted speed limit is so slow for the conditions that drivers are falling asleep at the wheel. No point going on about keeping to speed limits when clearly they are bullsh*t.
I have never seen a cop in my straight as a pin 2.5 car wide 50km/h suburban side road on which it is possible to accelerate to 130 k/hr past my house and some goons often do – despite numerous calls to the police to do something about – and they dont. I would be happy to give the HWP a wrap if that happened (as per your request) but I can guarantee you there will be no danger of that happening any time soon.
Revenue raising gone overboard.
Flying High – of course I gave tickets out for exceed speed! I also didn’t stop or gave a caution to just as many.
But this article is not about speed limits. But my personal opinion is I would like to see higher speed limits on some freeways. Remember though, just because the conditions may be appropriate for a higher speed, it doesn’t mean that a person can adequately control a car at said high speed. Every mistake made at higher speeds is exacerbated.
:)
Flying High – The posted speed limit is usually fixed (does not change according to local weather conditions, road degradation and other factors that could lower road safety.) so a limit of 100km/h may seem low during optimal conditions, but consider what would happen if you were travelling at 130km/h in a storm. Then also consider that not everyone on the road will have the driving skill you posess.
But, even if you ARE capable of safely controlling a vehicle under these conditions, that does not give you the right to break the posted limit.
You cannot call someone a goon for breaking the law and then tear someone else down for enforcing the same law.
The thing that strikes me about this is that you were surprised the car was concealed. At least 50% of the cameras i pass on a highway are concealed. Ive seen them reverse parked in behind sound barriers regularly. . I understand the people arguing that cops do many good things, they do. The thing is they do many things that they will happily fine any other non uniformed person for. And that loses peoples respect. That said its not all police officers and it would be impossible to screen them such that they never get a wanker in the force but lets just hope that fools like these ones photographed are fined in the same manner we would be..
I don’t get the logic of people who say this site is “having a go at cops in general”. I think the article squarely focuses on the two instances at hand.
I notice everytime one or two ‘hoons’ break the law that every 18-25 year old male seems to be lumped in to the same group by other media so, as I see it, fair’s fair.
Sure if you’re going to speed, you’re going to get caught BUT, if you’re going to set up a camera where it shouldn’t then why shouldn’t you be punished too. Fair cop (pardon the pun).
Well said Matt.
Also, just out of interest, even if somebody was caught breaking the law by one of those cameras wouldn’t that be illegally gathered evidence and therefore inadmissible in court?
HAH! Whilst that may be the case Ben, considering it’s usually six months before the fact AND you wouldn’t have seen or even remembered the actual incident anyway, it’d be a case of good luck proving against it.
Face it, when it comes to fixed point and roadside cameras they have their bases covered and unless you’re loaded, a celebrity or a cop, you have NO chance of getting off.
Casey – Haha! I never thought of that.
Interesting to know that the proceeds of those cameras are illegally obtained. I thought there were laws against those sorts of things ;)
Everyone appreciates the basic issue is breaking the law to enforce it.
I don’t sympathise with some of the converted around here who feel hard done by the very existence of speed cameras.
For some speed detection devices will always be unfairly sited as they got caught or prevents them from doing what they like.
If cameras can reduce bad road behaviours this is no bad thing.
Have viewed the site selection criteria for speed cameras.PDF DOC from Dept of Justice.
If they were in operation the above do break some criteria As for the alleged behaviour of the officer in the Commodore,no wonder he is on braindead duty.
Hope that TOYOTA above is not PAUL!
I agree with Grumps on this one. Even though as some have said that this kind of article is interesting to the readers of this site, it does detract from the true purpose of the front page blog of the site. Furthermore, reading over the piece of prose you definitely sense that the piece has some personal fuel, ie. a rant / rave.
I’m not saying that the article isn’t informative and important, because it is, but it should be in the rants/rave section. Besides, there hasn’t been a new article in that section since June this year.
Thanks Aubz :)
Hi Aubs, the rants and rave section is about to be superseded with spy shots section.
Me,
No it wasn’t Toyota Paul.It was I.Inserted my anti spam into the wrong field.
Ben for the record I did not call someone a goon for breaking an arbitrary speed limit. I could not give a sh*t about the limit. The road in question in my example above should be used at about 40km/h, not even 50 km/h. I am talking about driving to the CONDITIONS. And nothing further is required. But the whole thing about fines is that their ONLY purpose is to raise revenue for the State. No question.
As another example, lets say someone smashes into your car and clearly it is their fault. Along comes Mr Policeman (or Ms Policewoman as the case may be) and slaps that person with a fine. Now, does that fine help the person whose car has been smashed at all? NO! Why does the State need to fine the driver who caused the accident? How does that help anyone in this situation? If it went directly to the person who was the victim, then fair enough – but it does not. It is yet another example of Revenue for the State by whichever means possible.
I love this site! I want to work for you :D
This reminds me of the speed camera they put on the M1 going towards the Gold Coast. Sits behind teh concrete barrier and you can’t see it until you are paralell.. always thought that was dodgy. Keep up the good work, great site.
I find it ironic that the people who complain about speed cameras, red light cameras and road rules in general seem to be the ones that get caught!
To me it is quite simple – if you obey the speed limit and road rules you won’t get caught. SIMPLE.
If you don’t agree with the road rules then don’t drive on public roads – there are plenty of other road users willing to obey them.
I’m nothing more than a regular road user – but nothing annoys me more than seeing other road users put myself, my family and others at risk because they think they have a ‘right’ to break the rules.
As all the adverts say – the road is there to share – please remember that next time you.
Everybody, seriously!
You lot a dead set bunch of morons. I’ll give you a really simple explanation to stop from getting caught by speeding cameras…….. DON’T SPEED STUPID!
The number of idiots on our roads is staggering and I hope you think about not speeding when your car is about to wrap itself around a tree due to you “expert” drivers losing control….or even worse, hit another car.
Think about how you’ll feel for the rest of your life (if your lucky enough to survive) knowing that you killed someone due to your incompetence and idiotic obsession with going “just that little bit faster than everyone else”!!!
Then again, you probably wouldn’t blame yourself anyway……
No,never revenue raising. So when are the speed cameras here on my bit or road, Monday mornings and where are they Saturday nighs when the “hoons” in 20 year old Falcons and Commodores are doing 120-140 kph in a 60 kph zone, nowhere to be seen, well I guess that’s the point but. I have rung the ‘powers that be” to advise of this behaviour……result negative. Mondays still cameras here, Saturdsys the “hoons” still do thier thing. So why bother notify, it’s seems to be pointless?
Cam / Pete,
I think one of the main points that has been raised here is not the fact that people feel they should have the right to speed and not get caught (by hidden speed camera’s), but Police should be setting an example by following the rules in place for them just as we should obey road rules.
Nobody likes getting booked for trivial/petty things – especially when the Police that are booking you are getting away with things like parking on the footpath above.
Cam:
If the Police were serious about curbing the road toll, they would invoke mandatory driver training. Hiding speed cameras behind bushes, so the driver receives a fine in the mail months down the track is pointless revenue raising.
People who say “just don’t speed” obviously don’t spend much time – if any – behind the wheel. A person who checks their speed every two seconds to make sure they haven’t ventured 3km/h over the limit is even more likely to crash than a person going over the speed limit and driving to the conditions.
Sorry, but your theory is totally flawed.
Benjie………..x 1000…….speed doesn’t kill,!Well said!
First off….Benjie U R AN IDIOT!…probably one of the dumbest people I have ever known. Speeding doesn’t kill??? And ur an expert???? When is the last time u investigated a Serious Motor Vehicle Collision??? 90 % of the ones I have were all caused by speed, or had speed as a major contributing factor. Next time ur pulling out from a kerb and someone comes flying around a corner and hits and kills you (and I do hope that never happens), should we blame it entirely on you for not giving way seeing as though speeding doesn’t kill??? And were is it that police have the power to force motorists to attend driver training??? We don’t create the rules, we enforce them (or break them as r the cops in the above photo’s.)
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I never presume to be above the law, and as apparent from the above photo’s, sometimes police do break them. But everyone is using these images to bag the cops. Everyday we go to work, get shot at, stabbed at, threatend, sworn at, assaulted, our families threatend, some of us are followed home, some of us don’t make it home! Yet we go out their and do our best to protect everyone else and do the dirty work that others arent willing to do. Next time u see a photo or two of a couple of cops breaking the law, remember the other thousands of us that are pulling lifeless bodies and children out of car wrecks, for those that attend domestics, neighbour disputes and other scene’s to help solve ur problems, remember all the cops that have been killed in the line of duty to protect ur rights. If u think u can do my job better, please feel free to have a go!
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As far as camera cars go, they should be llowed to be hidden, it is a far more effective deterant. if you can see them or know where they are, u slow down as you go past then sped u. If u never know where one’s going to be, u are more paranoid and are more likely to drive to the speed limit. It’s not ALL about revenue raising! It suprises me how many times I have given tickets for speeding and am told, “Why don’t u go catch real criminals?” I garantee u that if that speeder was ever hit and injured by another speeding motorist he wold be asking, “Why didn’t Police do something to stop speeding on that stretch of road?” Some people are never happy! The camera’s are there to deter driver’s from speeding so that u, ur family and ur friends aren’t killed by speeding idiots. We do this to keep u alive and ur family alive. If u can’t appreciate our efforts then by all means put in a complaint.
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People on here like grumps, pete and cam are on the right track. Don’t speed and u wont have an issue. Do u think i care that the cops hide their speed camera to catch speeding motorists that risk me and my family….NOPE! Hope they catch the idiots that put my life at risk!
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Feel free to continue putting down hard working cops that care!
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Anon!
the Victorian government couldn’t give two hoots about your safety. They’d literally walk over your dead body to get the pics off a camera!
Mick D/Cam,
In regards to you comments Mick:
“Nobody likes getting booked for trivial/petty things – especially when the Police that are booking you are getting away with things like parking on the footpath above.”
I don’t see how the police are “getting away” with anything – the police are exempt under both the camera guidelines that were posted and law. How are they “getting away” with anything?
I’ve been driving for 20 years – and I have been a car enthusiest for far, far longer. I was booked for speeding 19 years ago – I realised how stupid it was and have never got another ticket since. As I said, don’t speed and there won’t be a problem :)
In regards to your comments Cam:
“People who say “just don’t speed” obviously don’t spend much time – if any – behind the wheel. A person who checks their speed every two seconds to make sure they haven’t ventured 3km/h over the limit is even more likely to crash than a person going over the speed limit and driving to the conditions.”
Cam, that is just shear arrogance. The speed LIMIT is the LIMIT – if you don’t have the driving ability to stay on the LIMIT then drive 5km/h under it – then you won’t get booked. If it is raining or heavy traffic then by all means drive to the conditions and slow down – just remember the LIMIT is just that – the LIMIT.
Oh, BTW, I drive for a living.
Pete
Anon:
Nobody is questioning the Police’s ability and efforts outside of the issue contended in this article. In fact, I think they do a great job and it would impossible to live without them protecting people on the streets and in their homes.
But, that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is blatant revenue raising. Why doesn’t the government use all the money obtained from speeding fines and put them into driver training programs. There would be ample funds for such an idea to work – and then some.
Speeding IS NOT the sole cause of major accidents. The sole cause of major accidents is driver inability. I drive to the conditions and do speed when I see fit, have I ever had an accident? No. Have I ever been booked? No. Have I ever been hit by another car that hasn’t been speeding and has had an inattentive driver at the wheel? Yes.
The fact that you get done for speeding for traveling just 3km/h over the limit causes paranoia and moron drivers on the road. They’re forever gawking at their speedos, not paying any attention to the road or conditions in front of them.
Sorry, but it’s all revenue raising and speed cameras DO NOT help one bit in saving lives – which has been proven by statistics, time and time again. They are there to reap revenue and it would take a real simpleton to not notice that.
Pete:
I too drive for a living.
Driving UNDER the speed limit is more likely to cause a bloody accident. Difference of speed is what kills and when you’re sitting in the right hand lane doing 5km/h under the speed limit, you’re banking up traffic, pissing everyone off and causing a dangerous driving environment.
When will all you fools get that when you don’t speed, you don’t get tickets?!?
Every time I speed, I know damn well that I can get a ticket. I also see an enormous amount of people fly past me and I hope they are the people in here whinging about getting a speed camera ticket or using the anonymity of an online forum to bash the poor old coppers cleaning up hundreds of dead people off the road every year.
Speed cameras should be hidden and camouflaged. Just my opinion.
So what is the problem, if you dont speed there is none. I am not a police officer but I do believe that we need tougher fines, like $500 first offence, 1000 next and the last is car confiscation. Why are the idiots riding on the footpath? Thats illegal. Ok I’ve had my say, go Police.
Sean and Glen,
research from the UK, the US and other countries has shown one thing, speed cameras do not save lives, here is a link:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/67.....-official/
The “don’t speed and u wont get caught” statement is the same as the ones governments use to tap your phone and video tape everything you do “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about”, I am sorry, but that is not right.
We need better driver education, better driver training, better roads, better understanding of car culture etc etc..
the road toll is only going higher, in QLD this year marked Campaign 300, which was meant to keep the road toll below 300, speed cameras were quadrupled, did it work? No, its higher than the year before and year before that… what does that tell you?