Revenue raising at its finest
28 Nov, 2007
71 Comments 
- Editor’s Note (23/12/07): CarAdvice is still waiting to hear back from the Victorian Department of Justice. The letter sent out on behalf of CarAdvice to the Victorian Department of Justice has permitted for a 14 business day response time. The Victorian Police on the other hand have responded.
Although they won’t permit us to reproduce the e-mail online, the media liaison has called CarAdvice a “biased editorial,” we have also “made no attempt to include include any facts” in the article outlined below – according to the media liaison. So, much like yourselves, we are yet to determine exactly why a Police vehicle was inhibiting the flow of pedestrians and cyclists, making it dangerous for their passage.
The only response we were permitted to publish is the following, courtesy of Natalie Webster, the Media Officer for Victoria Police, “The only response we will provide for you to publish is that anyone who seeks further information on traffic camera operations can find it on our website at http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=10366.” If any of our readers have any luck finding the section about Police vehicles causing unsafe passage for members of the public, please e-mail us, as we are yet to determine the need or reason for the vehicle’s position.
- Editor’s Note (05/12/07): CarAdvice is awaiting written response from the Victorian Department of Justice with regards to the concealment of a mobile speed camera. CarAdvice is also currently awaiting a response from the Victorian Police with regards to the Police vehicle being positioned on a footpath. We aim to keep you posted with developments as they come to hand.
Have you ever had to pull over on the highway? Be it for a telephone call, a flat tyre, or maybe even because you had run out of petrol?
During a recent road test, a tyre had managed to go flat while driving on a stretch of highway just outside of Melbourne. So the logical thing to do was pull over as far to the left as possible and take the old tyre off and replace it with a spare.
Pulling off the highway, I received the absolute shock of my life when a Toyota Corolla appeared out of nowhere. I received an even greater shock when I realised it was a mobile speed camera operator who had parked the vehicle behind a set of trees, virtually invisible to all drivers on the road, right up until the point at which they are side-by-side with the vehicle.
Not only was the positioning of this mobile speed camera unsafe, it was also in direct contravention of the “Victorian Police Traffic Camera Office Mobile Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual.” The aforementioned document can be sourced here.
Of particular concern is the final section of the document detailing the information below (see page 11 of Mobile Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual, under the section titled “Camera Concealment/Disguise.”)
Camera Concealment/Disguise:
To maintain community confidence in the mobile speed camera initiative, it is important for the operational use of the device to be seen as fair and reasonable. Under no circumstances are camera vehicles, tripods or portable flash units (when used) to be disguised by signs, logos, breakdown of vehicle (eg. boot open or spare wheel/jack visible), tree branches, lamp posts, rubbish bins or any other covert means.
The operator of the mobile speed camera has clearly broken the operational guidelines issued by the Victorian Department of Justice. CarAdvice would like to see all fines issued by the mobile speed camera in question refunded immediately and the site removed from the register. It begs the question, how many more illegal sites like these are in use? How many unsuspecting individuals is the Victorian Government robbing each and every day?
The other issue that has ruffled feathers today is the astonishing use of a speed radar on a public footpath – right outside a sporting facility and convention of people for an event. The undercover Police vehicle pictured is blocking enough of the footpath to make it hard for a cyclist to get through – even causing them to fumble past.
Matters were made even worse when the occupying plain-clothed Police officer got out of the car and questioned our photographer. The officer started getting quite rowdy when the photographer informed him of his legal right to take photos on public property. The officer also refused to believe he was blocking the footpath with his vehicle and claimed that (after flashing his badge) he could do as he pleased – because he was a Police officer.
So next time you’re out riding your bike, or going for a stroll, please make sure you watch out for cars parked on the footpath on official…life saving…Police business.
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November 28th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Ha ha! Great pictures, would love to hear back from the idiots as to why it was parked there. I’d imagine it happens frequently, wish more people would take photos, surely we can stand up to this rubbish.
As for the idiotic police officer, how come they will go and give tickets to anyone parked even remotely on the footpath, yet they do it themselves?
Vote:November 28th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
day by day i love this site even more
not only for the great reviews but a place where the community can stand up against the police. You have legit evidence of police breaking the laws. Kudos on the great work and may the new labor government do something about this clear violation of justice( false hope i know)
Ps- i would park my car right in front of the police and see what they do- no emergency situation so no right to park on a footpath- i would love to argue that in court!
Vote:November 28th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
a while ago here in wa a ranger issued a speed camera opperator with a parking ticket for setting up in a no parking zone. the matter went to court and was thrown out. why must we suffer this bullshit. it sickens me to feel so powerless
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 6:40 am
guys, fantastic article..i cant believe they get away with this. we as australians dont protest enough and i think your evidence should be taken further in the cour or even to current affairs to get the message out.
i dont see any safety benifit in the way the vic police have acted in this situation.
Caradvice just keeps getting better and better….keep up the good work
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 7:27 am
Yet another disgusting display of arrogance by our ‘finest’. Well done CarAdvice – keep the bast*rds honest.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 7:39 am
But Your Honour, the life saving is working – it must be, because we are all alive to discuss this….
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Can I suggest that in future, if approached by a cop, request his or her’s name, badge number and local police station, then publish it here so that we can write formal complaints.
Some of them need to realise that they aren’t above the law.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 8:13 am
“Here, Here!”
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 9:20 am
As much as I dislike the way this site is anti-police and all these articles have NOTHING to do with CAR NEWS or REVIEWS – I have to agree these two examples are disturbing.
The camera car hiding is wrong but not all that bad – after all, if you don’t speed you don’t have anything to worry about.
However the car on the footpath is certainly just plain arrogance.
I ssume (once again) that the authors of these articles have reported these matters to the police ombudsman for further investigation, rather than just having a whinge.
I’d also like to suggest that these articles should be put in the RANTS and RAVES section, rather than the front page that should be solely for car news and reviews.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Sporting facility? On High Street Belmont??! Where? There is a run down old community hall under the highway. Generally the only sport going on in High Street is who can get to KFC quicker!
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Hahaha…Well done.
Vote:EBF got it right, next time ask for their name, badge no. and police station. This should give them enough worry to behave as a real Policeman…
November 29th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Grumps – I assume by your comment you’re a cop or ex-cop? I read CA a lot and find it great that someone has the b*lls to say it as it is.
Regardless, the police/camera operators have a charter or set of rules to abide by JUST LIKE THE REST OF US have the law to obey.
If those who uphold the law cannot obey it (and lead by example), then why should the rest of us be expected to do so. Double standards? Hmmmm…..
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Make a official complaint to Victorian Police, attn. Christine Nixon
Tell her to lose some weight too, LOL!
Oh, and her beach house is WAY overpriced, but i am interested all the same!
Cheers
F-0
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 11:38 am
Grumps, the issue here is not to cop bash, it is that something wrong is happening. I’m sure I speak for most of us when I say that we appreciate and value the service most police offer to the community every day, BUT when they break the rules, the public has the right to know and they should be dealt with in the same way as an average person.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Grumps thats the problem with a lot of people they think because they arent speeding they’re safer than people who do. I think i person who drives to the conditions is a lot safer driver than the person who constantly is looking at the speedo.
Plus if speed cameras are there to “save lives and slow people down” wouldnt they be more effective if people can see them rather than just try and catch people. Thats just revenue raising in my opinion, if they are in plain site and someone gets pinged legally than ive got not problems but all cameras are on straight roads or freeways. If they are there to save lives wouldnt you place a camera just b4 a known dangerous curve rather than down a straight hill. At least people will slow down for that curve because we all know that everyone speeds up as soon as they pass the camera.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
This site rules!
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Guys,
You have a golden opportunity on your hands. Contact one of the current affairs shows and see if they would like to do a story with your photos. They get a good story and you get to give it to the camera operators and promote your site. Lot’s of people watch this stuff and I bet you guys would have more traffic the next day.
Keep up the great work!!
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Casey – yes, I am an ex-HWP copper (as I have mentioned before). As I also said, I am not especially impressed by the unmarked car parking on the footpath. Should he get a ticket for it? Yes.
If CarAdvice wants to put stuff like this on the site I think it should be in the Rants & Rave section. I come here to read about new cars, not stuff that everyone in the world knows happens.
What about car reviewers. Do they stick to the speed limit and obey every law when testing a new car. Of course not, so where are those stories?
How about putting some good cop stories up like when they catch some berk doing 190km/h in a 60 zone. Or when they take a drunk/drug driver off the road?
Ben – no arguments there. If a cop breaks the law, and it wasn’t in the execution of their duty, by all means they should be (and are) dealt with like everyone else.
Glen – mate I hate speed cameras as much as anyone. I have said in other posts that I have always been totally against them. As far as I am concerned they are revenue raisers and serve no purpose other than that.
Being stopped by a cop and given a ticket immediately is a much stronger deterrent.
Let me also state that I have worked with some of the biggest morons ever to put on a uniform. Was I proud to know that these idiots were representing us? Of course not, but the bad things always stay in people’s minds. Are all HWP officers bastards. No, I worked with some of the most conscientous and polite guys you could know, who were dedicated (as was I) to keeping our roads safe.
I would just like to see CarAdvice balance these stories, or at the very least confirm that an official complaint has been made, rather than just “having a go” at the cops in general.
That’s enough for now :)
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
I agree Grumps. I don’t like it when cops do this sort of thing, but they do a damn good job in general.
And I’m pretty sure getting a few speeding tickets in the mail is a good deterant for speeders. If the cameras are in completely open locations, everyone just slows down for it, then speeds back up. Achieves very little. As long as they aren’t on stretches of road where it is safe to roll down a hill for example, I don’t have a problem with using speed cameras.
And Simon I despise those current affairs programs. Most of their stories are absolute BS, blatantly one-sided, and many are resolved prior to them showing it!!
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Grumps the front page is as good a place as any to share this article as it is pertinent to the car enthusiasts who freuqent this site.
And you cannot tell me that you yourself as part of ‘its my job’ have not pinged someone for doing 130K/hr on a freeway that is clearly made to handle speeds higher than that can you? A place where driving at the posted speed limit is so slow for the conditions that drivers are falling asleep at the wheel. No point going on about keeping to speed limits when clearly they are bullsh*t.
I have never seen a cop in my straight as a pin 2.5 car wide 50km/h suburban side road on which it is possible to accelerate to 130 k/hr past my house and some goons often do – despite numerous calls to the police to do something about – and they dont. I would be happy to give the HWP a wrap if that happened (as per your request) but I can guarantee you there will be no danger of that happening any time soon.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Revenue raising gone overboard.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Flying High – of course I gave tickets out for exceed speed! I also didn’t stop or gave a caution to just as many.
But this article is not about speed limits. But my personal opinion is I would like to see higher speed limits on some freeways. Remember though, just because the conditions may be appropriate for a higher speed, it doesn’t mean that a person can adequately control a car at said high speed. Every mistake made at higher speeds is exacerbated.
:)
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Flying High – The posted speed limit is usually fixed (does not change according to local weather conditions, road degradation and other factors that could lower road safety.) so a limit of 100km/h may seem low during optimal conditions, but consider what would happen if you were travelling at 130km/h in a storm. Then also consider that not everyone on the road will have the driving skill you posess.
Vote:But, even if you ARE capable of safely controlling a vehicle under these conditions, that does not give you the right to break the posted limit.
You cannot call someone a goon for breaking the law and then tear someone else down for enforcing the same law.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
The thing that strikes me about this is that you were surprised the car was concealed. At least 50% of the cameras i pass on a highway are concealed. Ive seen them reverse parked in behind sound barriers regularly. . I understand the people arguing that cops do many good things, they do. The thing is they do many things that they will happily fine any other non uniformed person for. And that loses peoples respect. That said its not all police officers and it would be impossible to screen them such that they never get a wanker in the force but lets just hope that fools like these ones photographed are fined in the same manner we would be..
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I don’t get the logic of people who say this site is “having a go at cops in general”. I think the article squarely focuses on the two instances at hand.
I notice everytime one or two ‘hoons’ break the law that every 18-25 year old male seems to be lumped in to the same group by other media so, as I see it, fair’s fair.
Sure if you’re going to speed, you’re going to get caught BUT, if you’re going to set up a camera where it shouldn’t then why shouldn’t you be punished too. Fair cop (pardon the pun).
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Well said Matt.
Vote:Also, just out of interest, even if somebody was caught breaking the law by one of those cameras wouldn’t that be illegally gathered evidence and therefore inadmissible in court?
November 29th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
HAH! Whilst that may be the case Ben, considering it’s usually six months before the fact AND you wouldn’t have seen or even remembered the actual incident anyway, it’d be a case of good luck proving against it.
Face it, when it comes to fixed point and roadside cameras they have their bases covered and unless you’re loaded, a celebrity or a cop, you have NO chance of getting off.
Vote:November 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Casey – Haha! I never thought of that.
Vote:Interesting to know that the proceeds of those cameras are illegally obtained. I thought there were laws against those sorts of things ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Everyone appreciates the basic issue is breaking the law to enforce it.
Vote:I don’t sympathise with some of the converted around here who feel hard done by the very existence of speed cameras.
For some speed detection devices will always be unfairly sited as they got caught or prevents them from doing what they like.
If cameras can reduce bad road behaviours this is no bad thing.
Have viewed the site selection criteria for speed cameras.PDF DOC from Dept of Justice.
If they were in operation the above do break some criteria As for the alleged behaviour of the officer in the Commodore,no wonder he is on braindead duty.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Hope that TOYOTA above is not PAUL!
Vote:November 30th, 2007 at 9:31 am
I agree with Grumps on this one. Even though as some have said that this kind of article is interesting to the readers of this site, it does detract from the true purpose of the front page blog of the site. Furthermore, reading over the piece of prose you definitely sense that the piece has some personal fuel, ie. a rant / rave.
I’m not saying that the article isn’t informative and important, because it is, but it should be in the rants/rave section. Besides, there hasn’t been a new article in that section since June this year.
Vote:November 30th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Thanks Aubz :)
Vote:November 30th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Hi Aubs, the rants and rave section is about to be superseded with spy shots section.
Vote:November 30th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Me,
Vote:No it wasn’t Toyota Paul.It was I.Inserted my anti spam into the wrong field.
December 1st, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Ben for the record I did not call someone a goon for breaking an arbitrary speed limit. I could not give a sh*t about the limit. The road in question in my example above should be used at about 40km/h, not even 50 km/h. I am talking about driving to the CONDITIONS. And nothing further is required. But the whole thing about fines is that their ONLY purpose is to raise revenue for the State. No question.
As another example, lets say someone smashes into your car and clearly it is their fault. Along comes Mr Policeman (or Ms Policewoman as the case may be) and slaps that person with a fine. Now, does that fine help the person whose car has been smashed at all? NO! Why does the State need to fine the driver who caused the accident? How does that help anyone in this situation? If it went directly to the person who was the victim, then fair enough – but it does not. It is yet another example of Revenue for the State by whichever means possible.
Vote:December 2nd, 2007 at 10:55 pm
I love this site! I want to work for you :D
This reminds me of the speed camera they put on the M1 going towards the Gold Coast. Sits behind teh concrete barrier and you can’t see it until you are paralell.. always thought that was dodgy. Keep up the good work, great site.
Vote:December 4th, 2007 at 6:54 am
I find it ironic that the people who complain about speed cameras, red light cameras and road rules in general seem to be the ones that get caught!
To me it is quite simple – if you obey the speed limit and road rules you won’t get caught. SIMPLE.
If you don’t agree with the road rules then don’t drive on public roads – there are plenty of other road users willing to obey them.
I’m nothing more than a regular road user – but nothing annoys me more than seeing other road users put myself, my family and others at risk because they think they have a ‘right’ to break the rules.
As all the adverts say – the road is there to share – please remember that next time you.
Vote:December 4th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Everybody, seriously!
You lot a dead set bunch of morons. I’ll give you a really simple explanation to stop from getting caught by speeding cameras…….. DON’T SPEED STUPID!
The number of idiots on our roads is staggering and I hope you think about not speeding when your car is about to wrap itself around a tree due to you “expert” drivers losing control….or even worse, hit another car.
Think about how you’ll feel for the rest of your life (if your lucky enough to survive) knowing that you killed someone due to your incompetence and idiotic obsession with going “just that little bit faster than everyone else”!!!
Then again, you probably wouldn’t blame yourself anyway……
Vote:December 4th, 2007 at 11:21 am
No,never revenue raising. So when are the speed cameras here on my bit or road, Monday mornings and where are they Saturday nighs when the “hoons” in 20 year old Falcons and Commodores are doing 120-140 kph in a 60 kph zone, nowhere to be seen, well I guess that’s the point but. I have rung the ‘powers that be” to advise of this behaviour……result negative. Mondays still cameras here, Saturdsys the “hoons” still do thier thing. So why bother notify, it’s seems to be pointless?
Vote:December 4th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Cam / Pete,
I think one of the main points that has been raised here is not the fact that people feel they should have the right to speed and not get caught (by hidden speed camera’s), but Police should be setting an example by following the rules in place for them just as we should obey road rules.
Nobody likes getting booked for trivial/petty things – especially when the Police that are booking you are getting away with things like parking on the footpath above.
Vote:December 4th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Cam:
If the Police were serious about curbing the road toll, they would invoke mandatory driver training. Hiding speed cameras behind bushes, so the driver receives a fine in the mail months down the track is pointless revenue raising.
People who say “just don’t speed” obviously don’t spend much time – if any – behind the wheel. A person who checks their speed every two seconds to make sure they haven’t ventured 3km/h over the limit is even more likely to crash than a person going over the speed limit and driving to the conditions.
Sorry, but your theory is totally flawed.
Vote:December 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Benjie………..x 1000…….speed doesn’t kill,!Well said!
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 1:20 am
First off….Benjie U R AN IDIOT!…probably one of the dumbest people I have ever known. Speeding doesn’t kill??? And ur an expert???? When is the last time u investigated a Serious Motor Vehicle Collision??? 90 % of the ones I have were all caused by speed, or had speed as a major contributing factor. Next time ur pulling out from a kerb and someone comes flying around a corner and hits and kills you (and I do hope that never happens), should we blame it entirely on you for not giving way seeing as though speeding doesn’t kill??? And were is it that police have the power to force motorists to attend driver training??? We don’t create the rules, we enforce them (or break them as r the cops in the above photo’s.)
Vote:.
I never presume to be above the law, and as apparent from the above photo’s, sometimes police do break them. But everyone is using these images to bag the cops. Everyday we go to work, get shot at, stabbed at, threatend, sworn at, assaulted, our families threatend, some of us are followed home, some of us don’t make it home! Yet we go out their and do our best to protect everyone else and do the dirty work that others arent willing to do. Next time u see a photo or two of a couple of cops breaking the law, remember the other thousands of us that are pulling lifeless bodies and children out of car wrecks, for those that attend domestics, neighbour disputes and other scene’s to help solve ur problems, remember all the cops that have been killed in the line of duty to protect ur rights. If u think u can do my job better, please feel free to have a go!
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As far as camera cars go, they should be llowed to be hidden, it is a far more effective deterant. if you can see them or know where they are, u slow down as you go past then sped u. If u never know where one’s going to be, u are more paranoid and are more likely to drive to the speed limit. It’s not ALL about revenue raising! It suprises me how many times I have given tickets for speeding and am told, “Why don’t u go catch real criminals?” I garantee u that if that speeder was ever hit and injured by another speeding motorist he wold be asking, “Why didn’t Police do something to stop speeding on that stretch of road?” Some people are never happy! The camera’s are there to deter driver’s from speeding so that u, ur family and ur friends aren’t killed by speeding idiots. We do this to keep u alive and ur family alive. If u can’t appreciate our efforts then by all means put in a complaint.
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People on here like grumps, pete and cam are on the right track. Don’t speed and u wont have an issue. Do u think i care that the cops hide their speed camera to catch speeding motorists that risk me and my family….NOPE! Hope they catch the idiots that put my life at risk!
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Feel free to continue putting down hard working cops that care!
.
Anon!
December 5th, 2007 at 6:50 am
the Victorian government couldn’t give two hoots about your safety. They’d literally walk over your dead body to get the pics off a camera!
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Mick D/Cam,
In regards to you comments Mick:
“Nobody likes getting booked for trivial/petty things – especially when the Police that are booking you are getting away with things like parking on the footpath above.”
I don’t see how the police are “getting away” with anything – the police are exempt under both the camera guidelines that were posted and law. How are they “getting away” with anything?
I’ve been driving for 20 years – and I have been a car enthusiest for far, far longer. I was booked for speeding 19 years ago – I realised how stupid it was and have never got another ticket since. As I said, don’t speed and there won’t be a problem :)
In regards to your comments Cam:
“People who say “just don’t speed” obviously don’t spend much time – if any – behind the wheel. A person who checks their speed every two seconds to make sure they haven’t ventured 3km/h over the limit is even more likely to crash than a person going over the speed limit and driving to the conditions.”
Cam, that is just shear arrogance. The speed LIMIT is the LIMIT – if you don’t have the driving ability to stay on the LIMIT then drive 5km/h under it – then you won’t get booked. If it is raining or heavy traffic then by all means drive to the conditions and slow down – just remember the LIMIT is just that – the LIMIT.
Oh, BTW, I drive for a living.
Pete
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 10:36 am
Anon:
Nobody is questioning the Police’s ability and efforts outside of the issue contended in this article. In fact, I think they do a great job and it would impossible to live without them protecting people on the streets and in their homes.
But, that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is blatant revenue raising. Why doesn’t the government use all the money obtained from speeding fines and put them into driver training programs. There would be ample funds for such an idea to work – and then some.
Speeding IS NOT the sole cause of major accidents. The sole cause of major accidents is driver inability. I drive to the conditions and do speed when I see fit, have I ever had an accident? No. Have I ever been booked? No. Have I ever been hit by another car that hasn’t been speeding and has had an inattentive driver at the wheel? Yes.
The fact that you get done for speeding for traveling just 3km/h over the limit causes paranoia and moron drivers on the road. They’re forever gawking at their speedos, not paying any attention to the road or conditions in front of them.
Sorry, but it’s all revenue raising and speed cameras DO NOT help one bit in saving lives – which has been proven by statistics, time and time again. They are there to reap revenue and it would take a real simpleton to not notice that.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Pete:
I too drive for a living.
Driving UNDER the speed limit is more likely to cause a bloody accident. Difference of speed is what kills and when you’re sitting in the right hand lane doing 5km/h under the speed limit, you’re banking up traffic, pissing everyone off and causing a dangerous driving environment.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 11:29 am
When will all you fools get that when you don’t speed, you don’t get tickets?!?
Every time I speed, I know damn well that I can get a ticket. I also see an enormous amount of people fly past me and I hope they are the people in here whinging about getting a speed camera ticket or using the anonymity of an online forum to bash the poor old coppers cleaning up hundreds of dead people off the road every year.
Speed cameras should be hidden and camouflaged. Just my opinion.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
So what is the problem, if you dont speed there is none. I am not a police officer but I do believe that we need tougher fines, like $500 first offence, 1000 next and the last is car confiscation. Why are the idiots riding on the footpath? Thats illegal. Ok I’ve had my say, go Police.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Sean and Glen,
research from the UK, the US and other countries has shown one thing, speed cameras do not save lives, here is a link:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/67.....-official/
The “don’t speed and u wont get caught” statement is the same as the ones governments use to tap your phone and video tape everything you do “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about”, I am sorry, but that is not right.
We need better driver education, better driver training, better roads, better understanding of car culture etc etc..
the road toll is only going higher, in QLD this year marked Campaign 300, which was meant to keep the road toll below 300, speed cameras were quadrupled, did it work? No, its higher than the year before and year before that… what does that tell you?
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Glen:
I think the only idiot here is you.
Why on earth would a cyclist be stupid enough to ride on the road in that traffic – and with a Police car parked illegally with parts hanging out onto the road?
I think it’s laughable that you suggest they shouldn’t use the footpath. Is that because there is a Police car parked on it???!!! Hah.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
EBF – you don’t seem to know the law very well. Police don’t need to provide you with their name, station, or rank unless they ask you for yours. Nor can you approach a police officer who hasn’t asked you for your details. Oh, and please, I’m interested to find out under what law police are required to provide their “badge number”. Well? Sounds like you’ve been reading the Legal Aid advice booklet.
And again, you still neglect to see that police aren’t “above” the law. You are all saying police are breaking the law. Well which law? You seem to be forgetting one thing… although none of you are smart enough to work it out.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
This Cam joker is one of two things; a non driver or a blatant liar. If he drives – he has surely exceeded the speed limit at least once in his life, even it was to rush someone to a hospital or make an appointment.
The word Speed implies dangerous driving. I have driven many times in Europe at 170km/h for hours on end and on roads no better than those highway stretches from Sydney to Melbourne.
What gives in this country?
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
As a responsible 20 year old driver, i am shocked by others on the road. You try to do the speed limit and some smart guy decides to tail gate you to the point where you are pressured to go faster to avoid an accident. I think it’s a team effort, everyone needs to realise the importance of obeying the speed limit. It’s a catch 22, do the limit and risk pissing off people which in turn makes is a dangerous driving environment. Speed and risk your life and others which also creates a dangerous environment
I think it’s unfair to be booked 1-2km/h over the limit but i have no sympathy for anyone who decides to exceed the limit considerably. Unfortunately this kind of driver is very common in today’s world.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Luke:
You sound like the typical right lane hog. I too would sit up your arse if you were in the right hand lane holding up traffic.
As Tony said, Europe – in particular Germany – is a prime example of how we should drive and why the lack of driver education has placed us as one of the worst nations to drive in. A bunch of paranoid folk who won’t speed because they think the second they exceed the limit, everyone is going to die.
It’s the driver – and their lack of education – that kills, not speed.
Vote:December 5th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
The questions are are the Police breaking the law? In the first picture involving the speed camera NO! It is part of their Standard Operating Procedures and not a written law. Its an internal issue only. In the second photo where they are parked on the footpath YES! and is a traffic matter.
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The question you need to ask is, am i a law abiding citizen? If YES….then none of this should even bother you! Who cares if the cops hide the camera car, they aren\’t going to catch u, just the speeding idiot that might take u or ur family out!
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If the cops are on the footpath duing their duty, again, who honestly cares??? One of the captions mock them saying that they must be on \”Official lifesaving duties.\” Well they are. Look at the roadway…where are they supposed to park so that they can perform lidar on speeders???
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Imagine that its your neighbourhood and that ur wife/husband picks up ur kids after school then travels down this road everyday to go home. Everyday the Police are parked here at the same time to curb speeders, so u take photo\’s and put in a complaint. Next thing the cops are dragged upto the bosses office and get into strife. What do u think they are thinking, \”We ain\’t going their again! We will get a complaint\” So the next day thay park in some obscure side street so as not to generate complaints. Ur wife/husband with the kids is travelling down the same strecth of road. A young kid who has just got his licence (and this is not a representation of all young dirver\’s) and is inexperienced is doing 220 down the road to show off to his mates. 500 meters past where the cops normally sit he hits ur families car and kills them! If the cops had been their he would have been pulled over straight away, his licence confiscated, I would arrest him for drive manner dangerous and charge him so that he looks at gaol time or a severe sentence. Either way, he has been stopped and ur family is safe….NOW DO U CARE THAT THE COPS WERE PARKED THEIR???? If ur law abiding….is it hurting u if they are parked their??? OF COURSE NOT!!
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And every idiot who says \”get their badge number\” \”make a complaint\”. I\’ll tell u what that does because it has happened where I work. Obviously I am a Cop! We have a neighbourhood plagued by break and enters, cars getting stolen/broken into, people are bashed and robbed daily. So we patrol everyday. The crime rate dropped dramatically. The locals started to complain that we were speeding as we drove through. I had one come out and yell at me to slow down. I was doing 20k\’s in their 50 k zone. After we all got dragged into the boses office what did we say?? \”Well we aint going their again, we get into trouble.\” So now we go nowhere near the neighbourhood, and guess what, roberries are up, their houses are getting broken into again, and the place is trashed by graffetti and abondoned/stolen cars.
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Everyone complains that we take hours to get to ur complaints and that they drive past the station to see 10 cop cars out the front. half of those are recalled to the station to see the boss and answer complaints. Next time u call us and it takes us ages to get their, its probably because we have been in the boses office getting torn a new a**hole. U complaint that we dont patrol area\’s, again, we are tied up being interviewed, doing reports over complaints. U have no idea the amount of paperwork that goes into answering those complaints. We are treated worse than crimes beleive me!
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I think that the cops have been judged far too harshly on this site. Cops that steal, assault people, deal drugs etc, get rid of them, i dont want to work with them, but if they hide a camera car or park on a footpath to do their job effectively, well WHO CARES! i was disgusted by some of the responses made by some of the people on here about the cops. U should support and gives us thanks. We love it. When i get told that im doing a great job, i want to go out their and hlp the next person, i feel great. I read some of the comments here, and I think why do I bother, might aswell quite. And it is for this reason that we are losing some great cops! Next time u see us, stop us and thanks us, believe me we appreciate it!
December 6th, 2007 at 12:16 am
As far as revenue rasisng, I dunno how it works in Vic, but here in NSW we are given the Camera car, and the command/station determines the most effective place for it to be used. We look at where speeding is a consitant problem, where we get the most complaints about speeding driver’s, and where accidents frequently occur attributed to speed. We target main roads that are known for speeder’s, because when they crash, they will take out a hell of a lot of other people first. We then target those locations. Thats how it works at my station anyway. Do we get the money made off these speed camera’s, NOT A CENT! Does it go to the cops or better yet my pocket, NO! Do I care how much money the camera gives to the government….NOT REALLY! If I park the car or hide the car and it starts to make people paranoid and slows them down, do i feel great YES! Have i saved lives by doing this??? MORE THAN LIKELY! Thats how it is from a Police perspective! Does the government use it for revenue rasing???DEFINATELY! Are the cops going to knockback a tool that can be used to save lives…NO! We use whatever we can get!
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Some people, and I know Grumps said it, don’t think that they work! Thats some peoples opinion and they are entitled to think that, and they may very well be spot on! I think that they DEFINATELY do reduce road trauma. Maybe not on a grand scale but if they can be used to save one life its worth having them!
December 6th, 2007 at 1:05 am
Anon, the last time I saw a cop he was handing me a speeding ticket, the time before that, he was handing me a speeding ticket… the time before that.. u can see where this is going… I protest all my speeding tickets (because I believe them unjustified), the more paper work for you, the less speeding tickets is how I see it. Money isn’t the issue, its the fact that speed cameras dont save lives.
Back when I used to own a store premises, we had a break in, I called the cops, they showed up five hours later and instead of doing anything useful, they gave me a parking ticket for parking my car on the footpath (what would u do when u have a break and enter, and there are no car parks, and u cant leave the store to move ur car?)
So next time you are about to give a speeding ticket for a minor amount, how about you give the guy a break? I wish cops would get back to being cops and help stop crime, people below 30 have lost all utter respect for you guys, you have all turned into sour traffic police – do something useful.
Just because you can’t get promoted to something more useful doesn’t mean u have to take it out on us! The police service is now on par with used car salesmen, can’t be trusted.
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Anon, please stop with the nonsense.
There was a time I had respect for cops, these days all they do is drive around and try and find some poor bastard doing an illegal u turn or going 65 in a 60 zone. Give us a break, saving lives? Please, we are no idiots here.
This is one of the only websites that stands up to the police while the rest are too scared, and here you are, as a police officer, criticising it.
Someone has to point out the absolute BS that takes place with speed cameras, what you dont realize is that for most of us, losing our license can be like losing our jobs and even family. Going 65 in a 60 zone doesn’t make me a criminal and sure as hell doesnt mean i cant drive,
why not target idiots that cant drive? Why not target elderly drivers that randomly change lanes without knowing, how can you tell me they dont cause accidents and going 5ks over does?
You cops are a joke, all your hard work as real police officers is ruined by your involvement with Speed cameras.
I would be ashamed to be a traffic cop.
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Does anyone know where the speed camera was parked, or the day. Also since when did they start using corollas?
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 8:51 am
Adam:
Well said!
The scenarios Anon keeps blurting out are total rubbish. Driving 220 in a 50 zone cannot even remotely compare to getting booked for driving 63 in a 60 zone, it’s an absolute joke.
Why is it that I NEVER see Police on the road when someone passes me at double my speed? I only ever see cameras/Police booking people for the tiniest amount over the speed limit.
And what about this – http://www.caradvice.com.au/76.....d-at-work/ – why the hell are Police allowed to speed?
What makes them such better drivers than the rest of us? Absolute joke.
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 9:45 am
It really, REALLY amazes me that there are so many people who have these wayward opinions that are driving on our roads.
Why can’t people simply understand that a requirement for driving on a road is that you obey the rules? If the sign says “60″, you don’t go more than “60″ – get it? If you don’t like it then catch public transport!
And to those that say “I can’t loose my licence, I need it for work”, well it really is simple – obey the road rules and you won’t loose your licence! HOW HARD IS THAT?
To those that say the current speeds are too slow and ‘danagerous’, or that you can do faster speeds in other countries – I say to you tough titties. If you want higher sped limits then petition the local councils and Governments – but until it does get changed please stop driving like a moron and obey the rules.
If a sign says “60″ and you are doing “65″ then no, you are not a criminal – but you are breaking a traffic law, and so yes, you deserve to be punished. IT IS SIMPLE. Why should the rest of us obey the rules and you get away with breaking them?
And to those that continue to whinge and whine about speed cameras – please, get off your high horses. Speed cameras are there is catch speeders. Simple. Will they save a life? Maybe. Will they reduce road tramua? Maybe as well. Will it catch the people who refuse to obey the road rules and drive at the speed LIMIT? YES!
Speed cameras are there to catch speeders. Every road user knows there may be a camera somewhere. If you don’t want to get caught then DON’T SPEED!
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 10:57 am
People like Adam and Jason are PURE MORONS. They think that they are above the law. And for ur info, i’m not a traffic cop, im general duties and rarely hand out traffic tickets!
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If u guys have lost respect for the cops thats fine, from the sounds of ur replies u are both IDIOTS anyway and I don’t want respect from the likes of people like u. I would rather the respect of hard working decent people who can abide by the law. Jason, the fact that u admit to getting ticket after ticket shows that u obviously can’t drive and hopefully one day u will lose ur licence so that u don’t cntinue to put other drivers at risk. When I’m pulling dead bodies out of cars, the thing thats going through my mind is how u speeding IDIOTS dont give a dam about anyone but urselves and u should be made to pay. The fines need to be tripled if u ask me.
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U winge because we turned up to ur break and enter 5 hours later. the poor cop was probably in the station getting reemed because of ur complaint that they have parked on the footpath or something. Of course we have turned into traffic cops, everyone winges about us an puts in complaints so we have lost any interest in helping people. What do we get for our troubles. U think i’m going to put my life on the line for u…UR A WINGER! Crying because police park on a footpath. U need to get a life…SERIOUSLY. If u have got that much time to complain about something so trivial, and thats what it is, then u need a hobby!
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If u think there’s such a thing as safe speeding then u are wrong! Every K over the limit exaggerates the fore of impact, the damage and the injuries. So speeding does kill. So two cars hitting at 5 K’s is the say as two cars hitting at 220 k’s is. If u honestly believe that speeding doesn’t kill then it shows ur level of intelligence.
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People who feel the need to stand up to cops are always the ones that are criminals or are always on the recieving end of ticket eg: jason. Thats why ur disatisfied with us. Others who are law abiding never come into contact with us a rarely complain!
December 6th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Anon:
You have clearly shown your lack of intelligence. High school physics is enough to understand the correlation between speed and the force of impact.
You are making several assumptions with your claims that ’speed kills’. Do you understand that cars like HSVs, FPVs, Ferraris, Aston Martins, Lamborghinis and a raft of other high performance cars are fitted with larger and more capable brakes.
So, you’re telling me that humble old Grandpa Joe who has slow reaction times and is driving an ancient Toyota Corolla with no active safety features is safe driving at the speed limit?
You do know that the aforementioned cars could stop in half the distance of this Corolla. So by that assumption, they should drive 1/3 faster than the Corolla because they are safer and can stop quicker.
Anon, only a moron falls for the ’speed kills’ mentality. You sound like a sheep.
Speed DOESN’T KILL. Morons who can’t drive kill. The sooner you realise that, the sooner you will stop looking like a clueless sheep.
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
That is right!
Vote:December 6th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Guys,
Big thing everyone have forgotten is that in Victoria speed cameras are not operated by police officers but by a private company. The unmarked car on the footpath is not a camera car and the Police officer there may have been doing a targeted police operation and the only safe place to park was on the footpath. Which under the australian road rules Police. Fire and Ambulance are exempt from some road rules in the execution of their duty.
SA is the same they are not operated by Police officer but Police security services.
Admittedly I wish that the governments of Australia did come out and say that speed cameras are for revenue raising and are placed in positions where crashes have regularly occurred. The fact people are getting caught shows that the stretch of road is an area where people regularly speed.
My advice is if you do not wishto contribute to the government coffers Dont Speed. For interest sake in SA if I got zapped by a camera I have to justify why I was speeding and if it was not for a legit reason which is in my log book or going to a task from Police comms, I get the fine and have to pay it. If it is a significant speed I have to go to court over it.
Vote:December 8th, 2007 at 3:40 am
Benjie….U R A RETARD! I cant be bothered arguing with u. I have to deal with enough inbreed, uneducated dipshits at work, without having to deal with another one in my off time. Believe what u want I really couldn’t care less to be honest. Its dumb ppl like u that get caught out in the end.
Speed does kill….if two cars hit at 5 k’s……and another two cars hit at 220 k’s, ur telling me their’s going to be no difference in the impact. Maybe when you complete high school, u can come back and educate me on ‘High School Physics’
Whilst ur at school, maybe learn how to read…because i’d like to know where it is that I have said that “humble old Grandpa Joe who has slow reaction times” isn’t a risk on the road. The only comment I made was that speeding does kill. So does alot of factors, shitbox car, inexperienced driver, lots of things kill…..and so does speed.
Ur the one saying that speed doesnt kill, but where is ur evidence??? I investigates prangs for a living, I have worked in the crash unit. I have text books amongst text books which will prove u wrong. Instead of coming on here and boasting unsubstantiated claims, why dont u back it up with some facts..MORON!
I’d like to know exactly what experience u have to be able to make such uneducated remarks and claims. If u can show me how when two speeding cars collide and the occupants die, that the speed is not a contributing factor then i’ll appologise. It is always a factor….therefore it contributes to the death and has KILLED! It’s not rocket science, but then again look who i’m talking to.
Anyway, continue walking around with ur head up ur arse! One day u’ll be flying around and u’ll come unstuck and crash. I just hopes its in my area so that I can attend and see the dumbfounded look on ur face!
Vote:December 8th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Anon:
No offense, but I’m not the one who can’t spell and I’m also not the one who is a Police officer – so it’s barely appropriate to be calling me “uneducated” and a “retard.” Generally people stoop to personal attacks when they realise they have nothing appropriate or intelligent to come back with, you seem to have checked both boxes.
Anon, you’re assuming that two people speeding drive around with the intention of hitting each other – at speed. Speeding does not kill, speeding when appropriate is not a contributing factor to accidents.
Drink driving, inattentiveness and lack of ability are all contributing factors to major car accidents. I have never heard of one single car accident in Australia that has solely been caused by speeding – not one. Accidents occur when people exceed their level of ability or are impaired by drugs or alcohol. Accidents don’t occur simply because somebody goes 5km/h over the speed limit.
Anon, you have to understand that I don’t advocate doing 200km/h in a 50 zone with children around the place. I’m simply saying that if conditions permit and the driver is capable, that it’s entirely appropriate to sit on 130km/h on a 100km/h highway. In fact, I do so on regular occasions – when people aren’t hogging the right hand lane.
People who look ahead, people who are capable of controlling a vehicle – and most important of all, a capable vehicle – at the type of drivers we need on the road.
It’s a proven fact that speeding isn’t the sole factor of deaths on our roads – this can be proven by looking at the many Autobahns in Germany and seeing how intelligent driving can permit for greater speeds.
Unfortunately, the lack of driver training, lack of ability and overzealous Nazi traffic Police make it nigh on impossible for people to drive sensibly above the speed limit.
Anon, please feel free to provide any proof that speeding actually kills. As I said, I’m yet to read any scientific journals or notes that backup your claims of speed being the sole factor in so many deaths on our roads.
Please leave the personal jibes at the door, they really don’t do much for your credibility.
Vote:December 8th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Anon please refrain from personal attacks and bad language or face being banned, for someone who is a police officer arguing for speed cameras, I am sure you can manage without swearing.
As for evidence, here it is again:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/67.....-official/
keep it clean.
Vote:December 8th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Benjie,I agree with most of what you have said in your last post.When we all tone it down it assists in getting our messages across.
Vote:The arguement re Autobahns standard roads transplanted to this country has been reiterated time & again.
I guess if the taxpayer base can bear to pay for an investment in reengineering roads to a level that enables 130-140km/h minimum then well & good.Australia isn’t there & we havent even duplicated the Hume entirely.
Best of luck trying to get roads of this standard here.
Then we would need to work on other issues.
Australian road manners are poor,lane changing & merging skills at times are mediocre,inability to maintain a constant speed is another.
Tailgating is a nationwide problem does not solve anything
& NO I am not the rh lane hog.Try the Geelong Road any Sunday arvo Melbourne bound in heavy traffic & you will have someone on your arse at the speed limit or at a speed appropriate to the conditions in any lane.
I am surprised that anyone would admit to this dangerous practice.
Hazard perception is another.I recall on another thread some twit who admitted to doing 180k’s on the Monash REGULARLY.This guy has a death wish.He no doubt sees himself as one ace driver but I doubt he even thinks about his reaction time before he even moves his foot towards the brake pedal & the distance travelled at this speed before braking commences.If a hazard appears 100m away at this speed he is good as dead.
In the end it is the sudden stop that kills which is proportional to the speed attained before the sudden stop occurred.
The arguement could go on & on.Speed limits & cameras of increasing sophistication are here to stay.Get used to it.
Take it easy over Christmas New Year.
December 21st, 2007 at 3:48 pm
This debate is pointless and I am closing this thread.
For those of you arguing that we should not cover speed-camera related news, this is not going to happen.
All of us at CarAdvice feel strongly about Speed Cameras – and the fact that they don’t save lives, yes excessive speed increases the chance of an accident but sending a photo 2 weeks later with a fine does little to help,
Bad driving is what needs to be fixed, more needs to be done to tackle the real problems, which is limited driver skills.
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