“OH WHAT A SMASHING FEELING”

Congrats to Toyota… it would seem people continue to have confidence in their reliability despite the recalls.

Just goes to Show the Australian Motoring public are a bunch of Lemmings.

The Corolla is the product of toyotas contempt for the motoring public. Torsion beam suspension and no DSC. But heres the rub the public allow this contempt by continuing to put it on a pedestal.

This is Truly a VHS vs BETA moment.

The real worry is will other Carmakers dumb down their vehicles to compete?

i didnt realise they used torsion beams?

People are a creature of habit, theres no denying that… i work ata dealership and it amazes me how any people just buy a car cause of the badge on the front, they dont care about features! but they will remain loyal to the brand.

Remember Toyota Paul you can’t take reliability to your grave.

Think I’d prefer to keep my life and go with a car that has ESP.

That’s a lot more aurions than I thought were being sold :O

Speaking of getting things shoved down your throat, I wonder how many Toyota’s John Laws has. For those not in the radio broadcast zone John Laws is the Golden Tonsilled Morning Annoucer on countless radio stations around Oz who is Toyota’s golden boy.

Actually I sometimes wonder if Toyota Paul is actually John Laws… (kidding TP)

NO ARGUING ON HERE “Flying High”, TOYOTA PAUL IS FINE AND ENTITLED TO HIS VIEW AND HE SOMETIMES STEPS OUTSIDE THAT AND LIKES OTHER CARS = FACT, so not out and out and out Toyota lover!

Maximus you do realise that the Kuga hasn’t been released yet anywhere worldwide, and the Verve and Iosis were only concept vehicles don’t you? You keep mentioning them, but none are actually available yet…

(posted this on ss-v ute page by mistake)

Thats OK NM – just giving TP some good natured shit. I agree that Toyota have the best designed shells of almost any manufacturer. I have quoted previously that with a Toyota shell and Subaru internals we would get an excellent package.

But as boring (performance wise) as Toyota’s generally all are – the majority of Ozes car buying public is putting their $ into Toyota, so I cant see them messing with that formula anytime soon. And they are to be congratulated on getting to where they are.

Paul you shouldn’t be so upset about people attacking Toyota. It still receives plenty of complements from people who come on this website (I’m guessing there over 65 ). Plus it’s not like you don’t critcise other cars that aren’t Toyotas.

Glen,
Exactly.

Both Holden and Ford need to learn lessons from this.

I’ll say that I feel both Ford and Holden have more ‘exciting’ models than Toyota at the moment, but it should now be clear, this isn’t going to cut it alone. Holden and Ford now need to attack Toyota on it’s base be it perceived, or real, ‘reliability’, and offer a larger range of *quality* product. Holden, bring back the superior Opel Barinas, add diesel options. Ford, bring on the Iosis and Verve.

Toyota needs to attack Ford on Holden on their ‘exciting models’ – SS, XR6/8, FPV, HSV. All need to compete down to the wire, so when it comes for us to buy from any of these big 3, we’ll be paying less for superior product.

For now, I’m sticking with the A4, but will be watching with interest.

Fords and Holdens have to improve the quality of their products. I used my mates ford ute last week. it made terrible suspension noise even through it has seen less than 14000k. In both local cars, the interior panel quality and gaps are not up to par. Also the feul consumption is a problem with high feul price. If both can combine value for metal with quality plus good feul econ – we will have a winner.

aussies are becoming BORING!

This is not new, Toyota have been on top for a long time now… When new Fords and Holdens come out soon, it might change.

Has toyota beat Ford and holden for profit? sell as many as you like, if you can’t make resonable profits you won’t last for long.
Ford can still make money off the local market, while exporting cars to a small RHD export base while Toyota relies completely on heavy exports numbers to stay profitable.
When Toyota AUS can make more money than Holden and Ford individually, let alone combined (like their sales) then they will be a company to envy.
Mazda and Honda do a better job than Toyota, while making cars you WANT to drive and have equal reliability.
Many forget toyota buys buisness unlike the other ‘two’ japanese companies.just because you sell the most doesn’t make you the best…

Oh, i know what your saying, but Toyota has only recently become profitable and never at the same profit numbers as Ford or Holden, ever.
Toyota is now wanting import tariffs to be frowzen so its exports remain profitable.
My point is Ford hasn’t had any LHD markets to keep it profitable, whos running more efficiently again?
All this while Toyota being market leader for the past 4 years.

Tonyn and most non-bogan kids wouldnt have a pic of a Ford or Holden either… I know I didnt! I dont get your argument, ‘every brand needs a hero car’, obviously not because Toyota is the #1 car manufacturing brand in the world!!! For most people quality and reliability is a significant factor in a choice of car, why the hell do you think Hyundai who is now producing some decent cars is going as successful as they should? Beause they are perceived as being poor in these two crucial areas. What you have to realise is this ‘hero car’, vehicles with good handling dynamics and power etc… is a small market relative to the entire market.

Thats why GM has so far this year clawed back number one spot form Toyota?
Or why Hyundai is making alrge RWD V8 sedan?
15-20 years ago Toyota had great RWD, stylish cars, they simply don’t have the same excitment anylonger.
Look for this to change as Toyota itself has realised it needs better looking and more desirable vehicles to help keep it among the top selling brands.

Don’t underestimate the fact ford and GM are doing quite well worldwide, its the US and here they have lost volume.

Adam you are a twat! If you look at the profit announcments for the last financial year you will see how oh so wrong you are. Here we go ford as you read above a 40.3 mill loss, Holden a 146.56 mill loss whilst Toyota MADE 184 MILL PROFIT!!!!!!!!! These are the Aust figures. Would you like a side when you eat your words or maybe a icey cold drink to wash them down! LOL. The way they did this was by not wasting 1 bill developing a car for 1 countries market like Holden, while Toyota develop globel cars then make slight styling changes to suit the market. If Holden update their car with new technology each facelift then they would not have had to cough up such a bull crap amount. If that THING costs a bill to develop then they got ripped.

I Do Need a Vent

Kluger = hot – If you’re a Fat Arsed Yank
RAV4 = hot – If you live in Noosa and wear Tweed
Corolla = cute as a pin compared to others – Finally a Corolla that is safer then the model it replaced (see last model in saftey V pre Generation)
YARIS = better natural look then over tarted up Mazda 2 – what Drugs are you on can i have some
Camry = bland but great step up from last model – Shite is still Shite no matter how reliable
Aurion = Nice, especially in Sportivo model – where is my Avalon in beige
Aurion TRD = still dont like overdone front air dam / grille – FWD, Torque, Badge, have i missed anything?
Hilux = great – overpriced Tonka truck, bought by people who follow the badge (and mines) (what is with the undersized tyres)
Hiace = What do Holden and Ford have? Nil nearly – Transit you can park a Hiace in the back of one
Landcruiser = What do Holden and Ford have? Nil nearly- well you have me on this one.

Fair cop to Toyota ns well done , but if you have to buy market share and not earn it ( try competing in the rental market a rolla is cheaper than an Elantra)It must be a hollow victory.

Adam as Mark mentioned and I was going to, the more recent results indicate Toyota are doing well in profits and sales… in fact their profits were higher then Fords even when Ford was making a decent profit (now they are making losses…worldwide)!! Beside this point, you are a typical individual who doesnt look past the profit figures… which are easily manipulated. Put it this way its my line of work… you dont take profit figures as the be all and end all, my investment claim was just one example as to an explanation for profit figures for you. Sift through their respective financial statements before making any real claims.

Too right Bavarian Missile, Ford Falcon GT is an Australian icon, if kids put posters on the wall SO THEY SHOULD! That means they patrotic and any Australian that says they bogans need to wake up and find out what cars are in the country since the 60s.

oh and may i ask who was really sticking the boot in implying that ford was ripping us off in relation to DSC when the aurion had it standard before the falcon.

so now the boots on the other foot with the rolla and suddnley DSC doesnt matter?

ah so you have a job now paul? Accountancy is it? congrats mate!!
well maybe you might come across the books of a builder now and find they earn a hell of a lot more than you realise. (in good fun of course) i know Klink will get a laugh out of it.

so what are you saying about reliability? whats your take on the reports that toyota has had a hell of a lot more recalls than ford and GM?
do you realise the gap is not as you always suggest?

My take on reliability is they are still reliable… that link I provided showed Ford and Holden were equal last while Toyota was way ahead in terms of owners needing to bring their cars back to dealerships for unscheduled servicing because their car actually HAS s a problem… a recall on the other hand occurs when the company realises there MAY to be a problem with a particular car line up, not that all the owners who have to bring their cars in have the problems, and rectifies the issue. So although a recall doesnt look great and it really it isnt, the fact remains these aside Toyotas are very reliable… and long term (and judging by sales even short term) they will continue to have strong sales as consumers are not fazed by these reliability issues.

Kluger = too ‘feminized’ – not a fan of crossovers.
RAV4 = WAY too feminized. 2.4L is underpowered, and 3.5L is overpriced VS competitors. OLD school 4-speed automatic (on 2.4L) and only 2 standard airbags.
Corolla = 1.8L is underpowered compared to previous lighter model. OLD school 4-speed automatic versus Civics 5-speed. No 2.0/2.4L engine option (as per Mazda3/Civic etc)
YARIS = at $15190, its one of the most expensive and least powerful (1.3L) vehicles in its class.
Camry = Only 2 airbags standard?! All competitors have at least 4.
Aurion = Looks nice, but cant hide fact its a V6 Camry. It ain’t no Avalon replacement (see Toyota US for the real Avalon – its a beauty)
Aurion TRD = no comment. Is it even on sale?
Hilux = Somewhat feminized. Small wheels, NO CHROME! A real truck needs chrome. Bonnet scoop on diesel model is silly. 2.7L engine option needs to be offered on more models. Overpriced.
Hiace = What do Holden and Ford have? Hiace standard model is too narrow. Underpowered – needs to borrow 4.0L V6 engine from HiLux.
Landcruiser = What do Holden and Ford have? Actually, GM have the Hummer H3, which is a worthy competitor.

David Z,
mate im sure if we scrutinised every manufacturers line up of vehicles we could compile a list of un savoury things. especially when we get into the GM daewoos.

but what you pointed out does illustrate what i believe….

Toyotas are heavily overrated!!!!!!!

i think someone said on a while ago “toyota has no class leading vehicles”. it sounds a little odd that the king pin in sales has no class leading vehicles, but if you actually think about it they really dont have any class leading vehicles.
and if you think even further to what name plates are synominous with toyota, you would say landcruiser and hilux, yet they are possibly further from being class leaders than say an Aurion (the new comer)

It great for Toyota doing so well in Australia cause there going backwards in a lot of other Countries including their own.

Toyota recalls 470,000 vehicles in Japan
Toyota said on Wednesday it was recalling more than 470,000 vehicles in Japan in its fifth recall this year, highlighting the carmaker’s struggle to deal with quality problems as it expands globally.

The move brings the total number of vehicles
(Advertisement)
the carmaker has had to recall in Japan this year to more than 594,000. It comes after Toyota suffered a blow in the US when Consumer Reports, the influential consumer-advice publication, said it was reversing a practice of automatically recommending all new Toyota cars.

Toyota ranked third behind Honda and Subaru in reliability and two Toyota models had “below average” predicted reliability, Consumer Reports said.

“Consumer Reports will no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design,” said the magazine, which is extremely influential with US car buyers.

The latest recall is for various models, including the Crown luxury sedan, made in Japan between September 1999 and October 2004, and the specific problems include fuel pumps, fuel control and steering, according to Reuters.

The damage to Toyota’s reputation for quality follows a difficult period for the group, which is poised this year to overtake General Motors (NYSE: GM – news) as the world’s largest carmaker.

Recalls in Japan and the US, two of its most important markets, have totalled 1.18m this year.

Last year, when Toyota recalled 2.1m vehicles in the US and Japan, it was ordered by the Japanese government to reduce the number of defects in its cars.

In 2005, Toyota was forced to recall as many as 2.29m cars in the US and more than 1.88m vehicles in Japan, leading the carmaker to set up an emergency task force to improve its quality track record, under the direct leadership of its president, Katsuaki Watanabe.

Since then, recall numbers have been on the decline and Toyota has said it has addressed most of the problems.

However, “it seems, they have not addressed their problems 100 per cent”, said Koji Endo, auto analyst at Credit Suisse in Tokyo. “I don’t think Toyota’s quality has declined.” Half of the top 20-30 cars rated by Consumer Reports are still Toyota cars, he said.

The group is adding 600,000 units of capacity in North America, or more than some companies have as their total output and about a quarter of the entire global car market’s annual expansion.

According to the Bloomberge report on Friday
Toyota’s shares fell 4 percent to 6,480 yen at the close of trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. They’ve fallen 19 percent this year.

Along with another drop in sales in the US the past 3 months.
And this reported on the 16.10.07 on TOYOTA news page .
YONKERS, N.Y. — In a stunning blow to Toyota’s sterling reputation for reliability, Consumer Reports on Tuesday said it no longer recommends the V6 version of the best-selling 2007 Toyota Camry or the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the 2007 Toyota Tundra because of below-average reliability.

In the UK they have done a TOP 100 most reliable cars over the last 10 years

Here are the results

The list, compiled by independent mechanical breakdown insurer, Warranty Direct, found that every car in the Top 10, and an amazing 16 out of the Top 20, were Japanese models. The Honda Accord was at number one.

Models were ranked according to the frequency of failure and based on a database of over 55,000 vehicles. Last year, over 7.5m Britons spent £25bn buying a used car – nearly seven times the number of people who bought a new car privately.
Table Showing The Top Ten Most Reliable Used Cars according to Warranty Direct

Pos Model Used car expert commentary

1 Honda Accord A classy package, well put together and feels more special than the average family car. Superb engines and value for money.
2 Subaru Forester Not quite an off roader, much more than an estate with a sporty edge, making it the perfect combination. Great all round buy.
3 Mazda MX-5 Blueprint for the modern roadster with sweet handling and engines to match. Extremely easy to live with.
4 Mitsubishi Carisma Despite the name, not that interesting to look at or drive, but that’s not the point. Here is a no-nonsense hatchback that won’t let you down.
5 Toyota Yaris Superminis don’t come better. Bags of room and perky engines. Probably the best small car buy.
6 Honda Civic Solid build quality and good engines are just part of the appeal, the Civic is one of the most spacious small cars around. Great value.
7 Nissan Almera A dull package, but that’s no reason to dismiss the Almera which is practical and perfect for the smaller family who need a big boot and utter reliability.
8 Honda CR-V Proof that you don’t need an XXXL 4×4. Here is a four-wheel drive estate that is flexible, easy to drive and own.
9 Toyota RAV4 So few four-wheel drives are fun to drive. This car is suitably sporty, but very practical. Expensive used buy but worth it.
10 Nissan Micra The driving school favourite. Tough, fairly roomy, but with its light controls is easy to steer around town.

The highest placed non-Japanese model was the British built Jaguar X-Type in 13th with the mighty German automotive industry first appearing at number 25 with the sporty executive Mercedes-Benz SLK according to Warranty Direct.

Used car expert, James Ruppert says: “QUOTE”

Volvo’s S/V40 was the highest placed Swedish manufacturer in 15th, with the nation’s most popular manufacturer, Ford, delivering its best ranked model, the Ka, in 22nd. Hyundai’s Lantra was the pick of the Koreans and the Citroen Xsara was the best-placed French model at number 26.

“Obviously reliability is not the main reason why someone might choose one model over another, but it is still an important consideration for the majority,” says Duncan McClure Fisher of Warranty Direct.

“However, used car buyers are considerably more cautious. Japanese models may not be the most charismatic but you’re unlikely to spend a great deal of money and time in the garage keeping it on the road.”

Editor notes

Launched in 1997, Warranty Direct was the first direct personal Warranty Company operating in the UK. As a privately owned insurance intermediary, the firm operates within the automotive and household electrical markets. Its Reliability Index is featured in What Car? Magazine.

All Warranty Direct policies are underwritten by Cassidy Davis, a provider of specialist personal lines insurance. Through the unique licences held by Lloyd’s, they are able to offer products in over 60 countries across the world. In addition, Cassidy Davis policyholders benefit from the financial security provided by the Lloyd’s market.

Pos Model

11 Lexus IS 200
12 Mazda 626
13 Jaguar X-Type
14 Toyota Landcruiser
15 Volvo S/V40
16 MINI (BMW)
17 Suzuki Vitara
18 Mazda 323
19 Toyota Carina E
20 Saab 9-5
21 Lexus LS400
22 Ford Ka
23 Rover 45
24 Hyundai Lantra
25 Mercedes SLK
26 Citroen Xsara
27 Ford Cougar
28 Subaru Impreza
29 Skoda Octavia
30 Audi A4
31 Nissan Primera
32 Toyota Avensis
33 Volvo 850
34 Vauxhall Corsa
35 Seat Toledo
36 Volkswagen Golf
37 Daewoo Lanos
38 Fiat Brava
39 Hyundai Coupe
40 Mitsubishi Shogun
41 Rover 25
42 Mercedes CLK
43 Fiat Marea
44 Ford Focus
45 Peugeot 106
46 MG MG TF
47 BMW Z3
48 Hyundai Accent
49 Volkswagen Polo
50 Fiat Punto
51 Vauxhall Zafira
52 Mercedes C-class
53 Volvo S60
54 Toyota MR2
55 Mazda Xedos 6
56 Ford Puma
57 Vauxhall Astra
58 Vauxhall Omega
59 Chrysler Neon
60 Audi A2
61 Ford Fiesta
62 Ford Mondeo
63 Vauxhall Corsa
64 Citroen Saxo
65 BMW 3 Series
66 Vauxhall Vectra
67 Isuzu Trooper
68 Mercedes M-Class
69 Subaru Legacy
70 Rover 400
71 Fiat Ulysse
72 Mercedes E-Class
73 Renault Clio
74 Toyota Celica
75 Peugeot 306
76 Peugeot 406
77 Volvo S70
78 Rover 75
79 Daewoo Matiz
80 Peugeot 206
81 Mazda MX-3
82 Vauxhall Tigra
83 Seat Ibiza
84 Peugeot 106
85 Renault Megane
86 Peugeot 406
87 Saab 9-3
88 Audi A3
89 BMW X5
90 Mercedes S-class
91 Toyota Corolla
92 Seat Alhambra
93 BMW 5-series
94 Daewoo Nubira
95 Alfa Romeo 145
96 Saab 900
97 Mazda MX-6
98 Jaguar S-Type
99 Daewoo Leganza
100 Porsche Boxster

There is no doubt that Toyota is incurring a little rough patch with reliability, but you can bet they will be working their butts off to rectify it.

Can I just point out that when comparing product recalls, the number of cars sold should be taken into account. Toyota should be allowed double the number of recalls of either Ford or Holden at least in Australia

ANDREW M…7.42pm Yes LOL

Yeah the Prius. The wedge with lights. Shame Civic not more better motor and economy as miles better looking.

Wheelnut,
the reason may be that toyota depends heavily on exports where as ford and holden dont as much.
ford and holden can obviously survive on local sales (as they have proven) but toyota must not be “geared” to do so.

ford and holden also sell more locally made cars to locals aswell. meaning they are selling more in the same economic climate as the manufacture. (although they dont sell much more local made stuff than toyota)

Mark,
yes thats true holden did start a cycle at the same time but holden had a major development.
how much does toyota actually develop here? i’d say a lot of their development costs wouldnt be incurred within Australia. and you cant say holden isnt selling VE’s to recoup that huge outlay. oh and dont forget the 2006 figures would come from june ’06. Thats right before the VE was released. whats the june ’07 figure for holden? thats the better idea as it should have expelled most of the costs by june ’07
as for ford….. well they definately are out of sync with toyota and holden at the moment. their costs would have been reflected 06, etc and dont be surprised to see reflections of that come june ’08.

Andrew,
may i just point out that toyota has more than double the recalls of ford. it is more than 4 times in fact. that should surely make up for their higher unit out put.

even in one year they recalled more units than they made

Mark, you came up with one product only. What about Toyotas number one seller (to rental buyers, the Corolla? What about Hilux? Check the spec sheets of various Toyota products vs the competition, not just Holden.
Yaris is a good example of a great product, but you pay for it.

Water bed and heaps of booze = disaster. Doubled with girl beside! NEVER AGAIN

Wheelnut

toyota corolla and camry/aurion and hilux are global platform cars and are produced in other countries as well. so if the aussie dollar is too strong nobody would buy from toyota australia.

thailand is the culprit.

at the end of the day tho, its all about profits, not sales volumes, and toyota beats holden and ford at that too! lol

but frankly holden and ford will never match toyota for sales and they know that, thats why i think you will see holden and ford concentrating more on profitability in the comming years rather then sales volumes, particularly with their parent companies respective financial troubles!

Richo,

Toyota is profitable it just siphons the money offshore through inflating the price the local arm pays for its imported cars.

In fact the ATO have wacked it with a 100% mark up on its tax bill this year. & it is still investigating previous years.

Good australian corporate citizen?

So Next time you buy a corolla remember that Toyota is defrauding Australia….go see a doctor too because there are much better cars out there.

Richo you are a classic bogan wanka,where do you think the profits (or in the last couple of years -losses )of Holden aka GM and Ford go .in case you didn’t know they are American owned companies ,the same as Toyota is Japanese OWNED.get your head out of your **se.Dennis.

sorry Richo the last post was for Trackdaze.

Further digging up revealed as at Wednesday October 17, 05:35PM on the following link major reliability issues that largely have gone by not really known by the public:
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/17102007/399/toyota-recalls-470-000-vehicles-japan.html. Again bear in mind this is reality and reliable reporting!

The thing which I laughed heaps and hard about is that last year the Japanese government had to intervene (actually ORDERED TO) to reduce the number of defects in its cars, when Toyota recalled 2.1m vehicles in the US and Japan alone. Whilst it is being addressed, problems still remain and it took the Japanese Government to intervene which is a JOKE as Government streamlining there approach to produce cars as the road they went down was not straight down the middle, but a maze Toyota got lost on! Fancy that TOYOTA PAUL; who would of thought Government to step in!

Then we go back a wee tad to 2005, Toyota was forced to recall as many as 2.29m cars in the US and more than 1.88m vehicles in Japan (4.17million cars from only two countries gee shock horror), leading the carmaker to set up an emergency task force to improve its quality track record, under the direct leadership of its president, Katsuaki Watanabe. ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS THIS OR REARRANGES TO ACCEPT THAT IS A JOKE WANNABE! Maybe these same negative people who dont deal with reality and go off there gut feeling (which I may add is based a heap on upbringing as a kid) also believe that the world is flat or maybe John Howard is a rock star in a punk rock band in Amsterdam! LOL to the power of 629!

Oh in saying ‘the masses’ thats not really limited to Toyota, every brand WANTS to appeal to the masses… why do you think say Ford offers performance with regular vehicles? They are trying to cover a greater market with their brands. But Toyota seems to do well at really focusing in at the main segment, non-performance based vehicles… where things like reliability are held in high regard over performance.

Toyotas dont look that bad… the latest models in particular as starting to look better then their “sportier” rivals.

TOYOTA PAUL’s entree – research Japanese Government and orders towards Toyota forcing them to lift there act up on reliability as major major problems. And suprise suprise – did you know GM is the largest seller of cars worldwide for 3months leading up til September 2007; ahead of Toyota.

ive up loaded some lins awaiting moderation that will put paul to rest a bit too…..

I may to be able to respond asap but I will eventually! Funny how this information is meant to ‘shoot be down in flames’ yet when I post quite conclusive evidecne for example that I didnt lie about Andrew.M or that Toyota IN AUSTRALIA are reliable, they still aernt accepted!!! None the less I will show a more open view and accept them then the people accusing me of being closed (Tonyn Im mainly referring to you, although NM is sometimes guilty)!!!

TOYOTA PAUL…I only said shoot you down on flames a tad! Dont overeact as minor comment! I had significant writeup done based on facts and was not put up.

TOYOTA PAUL…can see your side about ANDREW M as well as yours TOYOTA PAUL, but must say that it does not conclude Andrew M meaning that ”Fords have a better track record in terms of reliability than Toyota” as that is not what is undelying foundation of sentence struture or format of his post you refer to!

ANDREW M…not in QLD, am in northern NSW. Getting boat refurbished fully and relocating work to either around Buderim or Cairns as better state, better location, better people, better climate, just plain old better! Getting sick of building for people who are possessing one braincell here – sometimes I think they timeshare that one braincell – Ha Ha!

yeah bogans drive toyotas too you must realise. 1 great example is “lowluxs’s”.

thats right tonyn, the only thing being argued is the “reliability” gap or difference isnt as big as percieved and now days even less

Sorry Paul that was go to Mitsubishi 380 post and refer my comments as still to be convinced on your response to my question I put tou you! Iam not holding you accountable – just telling you you contradict yourself there.

in reliability*

Paul what i gave in on was the reliability subject and trying to tell you that the gap isnt as big as you make out!!! it all started from you saying toyotas are bullet proof, a comment which you deny you made even after i found THE ACTUAL TEXT

how is that survey conclusive? it an opinion poll pretty much. so what was the target audience? how many were surveyed? to be conclusive they would have needed to contact every vehicle owner in OZ. and then interperit whether or not those people were totally honest/ or understood the questions.

FULL HOUSE on 380 and ROYAL FLUSH with sorry to ANDREW M…. If it was craps table then no hope!

OK. Not digging up any shit as just remembered ya views on Lancer. My point is dice, as you added to why you like 380 more “…as given as a package” (???) and yet at 8.52pm on 380 post you only spoke of exterior look! Pinpoint what ya mean as would like to know what ya stand for?

Whats going on here? …This again!

hehehe…. iwll let you know what the M3 is like…. im sure it will be good, im not a bmw fan, always had benzes and audis… but that m3 impressed me bar the smg!

Yeah it was a good pizza trip! concidering i drove an extra 50klms each way to get it!!! hehehehe….

TOYOTA LOVERS…Toyota, the world number two, sold 2.34 million vehicles worldwide in the July to September period, just below GM’s 2.38 million tally.

Toyota also suffered a blow in the US when Consumer Reports, the influential consumer advice publication, said it was reversing a practice of automatically recommending all new Toyota cars. “Consumer Reports will no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota built models without reliability data on a specific design,” said the magazine, which is extremely influential with US car buyers. Recalls in Japan and the US, two of its most important markets, have totalled 1.18m this year.

Last year, when Toyota recalled 2.1m vehicles in the US and Japan, it was ordered by the Japanese government to reduce the number of defects in its cars. The damage to Toyota’s reputation for quality follows a difficult period for the group, which is poised this year to overtake General Motors (as noted first paragraph) as the world’s largest carmaker (Toyota still most profitable then GM – so much TOYOTA PAUL for they can spend there way out of troubles as be there done that for years and experienced more then others).

And I turn my discovery to this report on the 16.10.07 on TOYOTA news page – in a stunning blow to Toyota’s sterling reputation for reliability, Consumer Reports on Tuesday said it no longer recommends the V6 version of the best selling 2007 Toyota Camry or the 4WD V8 version of the 2007 Toyota Tundra because of below average reliability.

In 2005, Toyota was forced to recall as many as 2.29m cars in the US and more than 1.88m vehicles in Japan, leading the carmaker to set up an emergency task force to improve its quality track record, under the direct leadership of its president, Katsuaki Watanabe (STUFF ME, FANCY HAVING A GOVERNMENT INTERVENE INSTRUCTING TOYOTA TO LIFT ITS ACT…DARE SAY WHAT “VESTED” INTEREST HAS GOVERNMENT???). Since then, recall numbers have been on the decline and Toyota has said it has addressed most of the problems. However, “it seems, they have not addressed their problems 100 per cent”, said Koji Endo, auto analyst at Credit Suisse in Tokyo. “I don’t think Toyota’s quality has declined.”

GREAT RESULT FOR UNCOMMON SENSE – NOW JOHN LAWS WROTE A BOOK TITLED ‘….UNCOMMON SENSE’ (of something real similar). TALK ABOUT LOL TO THE OBLIVIOUS NOT KNOWN BUT TOYOTA LOVERS DOWNUNDER!!!!

LOL…..x 1,007! Ha Ha Ha

NM your trying to start sh*t again… you have no point, Ive already stated twice now what I said, the Lancer is better looking then the 380, but it isnt perfect. In fact in one of the Evo threads I clarified this, by saying the Evo has a got front but ordinary rear, making it overall avg. I didnt say in the 380 thread its got, but avg looking is better then ugly, because the 380 rear is hideous and its front is better but still not great. If you cant understand this then there is no hope for you. Im getting tyred of being accountable to you, it already happened once with AndrewM and Ross, I proved myself… Ive done it again with you, accept it, move on and talk about cars rather then nitpicking.

Adam I dont know how you can try to argue Toyota isnt doing well in Australia! You gotta look beyond profits… in the last couple of years there have been other factors which have provided lower reported profits; in 2004 they opened a $50 million head office (a significant expenditure Ford + Holden havent had to deal with in recent years), in 2006 they had additional expenditure in preparing for the new models (Yes Ford + Holden have had same issues, highlighting why its hard to compare companies against each other based on years because one company may be in the introduction phase of a new vehicle while the other is in growth!), they export more then Ford + Holden who incurs addition costs and of course they had issues with the tax office, with the ATO claiming they owed in between $400mil and $1bil in tax and penalties, which Toyota more than likely provided a provision for in their financial statements thus reducing profits (suprise suprise as soon as this was resolved, along with new products introduced, they posted larger profits than Ford + Holden did in their peak!). There are some more things I can dish up which explain why they had low REPORTED profits… you have to realise that profits aernt the be all and end all, you just have to look at the cyclical nature of profits within the auto industry to realise this. A company will make a very small profit or loss in the first years of the introduction of a new vehicle as all the expenditure put into it is realised with minal sales, while a few years after this introduction it will start to profit, as sales increase due to awareness and the expenditure for previous years is offset. Now during this period of low profit or even loss going off your logic Adam you would say the company is doing badly, because profits are everything right, but you neglect the fact that the capital expediture (much like Toyotas with development of their plants and head office etc) will eventually lead to a great profit making ability! On top of this, then other external issues as seen by Toyota through ATO’s interaction can result in provisions and allowances to be made for potential events, which again reduce profits. Mind you this isnt complicated, I do Tax myself with only abit of Auditing… this knowledge Im sharing here is 1st year uni stuff.

Paul…

I said the last 5 years and even 10 years of average profit, not one year.
You ramble on with capital expenditure, ok…

You constantly say toyota spends more, WRONG.

Ford is selling it’s local engineering work, it’s opened up new styling departments too, these arguments you use for Toyota go for both Holden and Ford also!!

Look back at the last 10 years and what Ford has spend on falocn/terriotry alone and see what Toyota has spend on local products??

You never explain why Honda and Mazda do well???

Toyota worldwide is spending up big on exspansion, yet has record profits, funny that!

The reality is Toyota AUS sells the most yet doesn’t have the results to show for it.
Who again has been selling and making cars here longer? Ford and Holden, not Toyota.

Surely my 9.55am comment will be put up, this is based on accurate information of reputable sources. I would like a reply as to what you think TOYOTA PAUL. It concerns Toyota on the worldwide stage!

i dont think it is worth arguing!! toyota paul will never see to reason! if we all to agree to disagree we will all be better off!

Yes Tonyn I will never see reason… Im the one explaining issues with going off reported profits… ffs what a comment by you! Ive given you the reasons Adam, particularly the tax issue which was for $400mil to $1nil… which you can guarrantee Toyota would have made a provision for, thus reducing profits. If you want to continue defying logic then do so. Not that this matters, I dont know what you are getting at by attacking their profits… the fact is they have the same sales as Ford and Holden combined. This is a car blog, all we need to know is that people given these sales seem to think Toyota has it all over the locals. I love Tonyn comments to, they ONLY excel in sales, geez wouldnt sales be a reflection of how they are doing in all areas!?! Seriously this anti-Toyota sentiment is becoming a joke.

A better question…

Could Toyota AUS afford to be selling at the same volume as Holden, ford, Honda or mazda??
I’ve delt with toyota dealers as a broker, they sell many models for volume not profit.
Thats something Mazda and Honda don’t do. na dit’s somehting you won’t see Ford do selling the new mondeo compared to camry.
Don’t silly to think Toyota makes as much as you would think.
If they kept more profit per unit, they would make more money!
The reality is toyota has done what many mainstream brands do now, they sell more on price and less on brand value.
Do you think the previous corolla would have sold as many if they were priced the same as focus, mazda 3 and astra??
I don’t think so.
People were over the moon to be able to buy a corolla for a base price under $20,000!! reputation and price cutting helps.
Looks at the current camry, deals galore.

Adam,
ill give my view on your question.
NO toyota wouldnt be able to survive on the same volume sales as holden or ford. the aussie dollar gains like 5cents and they are screwed and have to pull up stumps.

will import tarriffs and the aussie dollar bother ford or holden? NO

but i will ask this question back to you…….
you say about getting a cheap rolla means they are cutting their throats, but you can get a base focus for under $20K aswell. and most of toyotas range seems to be actually dearer not cheaper than holden and fords.

maybe its how much they discount them to the fleets. you dont become the number one fleet seller by selling at RRP to them i suppose.

what im saying is i dont think it is in their low pricing that means low profits. their price is…… lets say comparible. unless they sell at total cut price for fleets which is possible i suppose

Just adding to this transfer pricing, something like this is done because overseas may have favourable taxation, given Australia is one of the most heavily taxed developed countries, Id say this was the case. By paying $14k for a $10k vehicle, Aus increases expenditure and thus decreased profit and taxable income, while Toyota Japan earns this $4k in a country which will tax it less than if it was earnt in Australia.

Also of note I just read that Toyota in 2007 was given a taxable income adjustment to the value of $350mil, which means they were in fact overly taxed in previous years… so this is the 5th reason Im providing for why previous years didnt have high profits

paul…. seriously mate…. i try to reason with you but you seriously dont get it…. fact is there not as grand as you make toyota out to be, sure there no1 in australia, but there profit isnt great, they cant seem to release a car without it having a stop sale on it lately…. and even cars that they are releasing have been delayed (TRD HiLux)… so mate dont kid your self sales is only where there exceeding, no where else…… if they were perfect in all areas as you would like to think, they would of made a huge profit, had no trouble with the tax guy, had no stop sales and released cars on time….. seriously you rag me for some of the comments i put on here but you continusly come up with bulls!#t and when you cant win you then turn on the poor me tonyn and andrewm are picking on me crap…. go back to accounting, im sure your exceptional at it… leave true car enthuiasts to talk about cars….

I didnt want to have to insult you but you keep putting me down on here…. seriously i will be leaving this forum because of you….. you bring up all of these “facts” based of one phone poll, then you admit there not as profitable as ford and holden but who cares about that? if they dont make profit they wont exist… oh thats why there prob looking at exporting camry from thailand….

i dont think i have ever said toyota do a bad job…. i infact applaud them for exceling in getting a reasonable product in every catergory…. i know a lot of motor manufacturers are still trying to do that with lirttle or no success!!, but you still carry on saying we bag out toyota, the only reason i do is you continue to give every one brain damage about toyota.

to all the sane car enthuiasts ill see you guys back on here when we dont have to hear crap anbout how good toyota is all the time!

Tonyn,
im prob not far behind you.
i enjoy a good argument (it keeps us healthy) but it is going a bit beyond the joke i must admit.

Paul is like the kid in the school yard that gets in a fight, gets legs and arms broken and ends up in hospital in a coma yet would still declare he won the fight.

and if someone reminds him that HE was the one in a coma he would simply pass right over the point.

Please do leave Tonyn, your providing nothing. Ive already stated that profits are not always a true reflection of reality… fogetting this logic a profit is a gauge of a companies sucess, sales in this case (prices are at the higher end) are the gauage of the products success. So who cares about profits, this is a car blog not a finance blog… Toyota gets the most sales because they sell for the most part, the best vehicles. SIMPLE. This isnt about me not realising their weaknesses, Im well aware of them, its about me showing you that they are in fact doing well!

your so full of it paul…. i will leave… ive added about as much to all of these conversations as you have…..

I have never stated toyota arent doing well you tool…. thats why there number one. watch out now seems like there becoming complacent!

you can say all the crap you want, i like a good debate, but it will be no good when your the only one on here crapping on about your toyotas.

I have spent many a year in the motor industry, driven more cars then you have had cheap take away dinners, met and dealt with some of the highest people in the motor trade, and argued with some of the most one eyed motoring enthuiasts, but ive never met someone that has frustrated me like you. Maybe if your so passionate i could organise you a job selling toyotas, see how you fair…

i just cant take it anymore…. you also offer nothing to any topic on here but to cause arguments about toyotas that are not warranted. congratulations! you are the main cause of grief on here, even when we try to side with you you attack.

i hope you do as well at your studies as you do at being a tool on here. if that is the case you will be a genius in your field.

barvarian and andrew, look forward to chatting via email…. you guys would love what i have in the garage tonight!!!

you idiot i did say it was a joke…. are you 8 or something!!

not with that bloke… we have tried to be reasonable but he just wont budge…. so they lose one loyal reader and keep one tool! i just cant keep my cool any longer!

Just leave him Tonyn……lets all chat via email then!David you in? AndrewM ?

I argue enough with kids Chinese Factories {the same}and customers daily,I just want to relax!

ill be on home email tonight Barvarian

I’m glad you see that now TP, if you read tonyn’s original post you can clearly see he’s joking, and then you go and attack him anyway, how is that ‘reactionary’. And from there on it just snow balls. You need to learn to not have a hissy fit at anyone how dare suggests that toyota isn’t the second coming of Christ or that some people might find another car brand better.

How did you get through school alive when you are so sensitive about something as minor as what’s the best car brand. Its almost at the level of a joke now on this site, you’re like a tickle me elmo doll. Say something that potentially can be construed as ‘i don’t want to have toyota’s babies’, and then watch TP have a temper tantrum for the next 20 posts. Reading through some of your posts in older articles you were never this bad, what does it hurt to just let people have their opinions and not rage out on them whenever they differ from yours? If someone at work says to me i don’t like your car or whatever, i don’t proceed to give them a tirade about how its the best and everyone is a ignorant fool for not seeing that. I just ignore the comment, like any other well adjusted person would do. I like the car, and i don’t really give a shit about what you think about it. Just accept that people have different opinions, and though you may see them as stupid and unfounded, who cares? It doesn’t affect your life, so why get fired up about it?

I tend to agree with 8.07pm comment by Tonyn, make sure regulars come back one here as 99% great people as sense is on wane cause of one person!

sorry to go off last night but if someone didnt tell him and show there frustration he will keep getting away with it.

I have calmed now, but i had steam pouring out of me last night, i had to go for a drive!

yeah… i love all cars…. and i admit i especially i am partial for fords and euro stuff… but ive never seen a point argued so strongly….. i would have a spot at a toyota dealership for him for sure! would love to try that experment!

Speaking of toyota, i was at a toyota dealership last night and seen a rav 4 v6, is the stop sale lifted?

I agree Tonyn – Iam owed a wad of $ and guy who sorting out is like fixated too. Since high school to 44yrs old he was a fulltime uni attendee and has some 7 degrees and stuff. So you have it bad… This guy is a professional numbskull with the lifeskills of a nat. Example we went swimming at beach with his solicitor friend – I spotted shark fin in deep water, I spoke with solicitor and we hightailed it out – he stayed even though I screamed and told him. Three days later, we went to beach and guy who owes me $ said to people at Surf Rescue “Really where was the shark sighting the other day, never heard about that”
One braincell that guy!

Moving on – yes I heard that about RAV4 V6, think it is being sold again?

Must be pay up Friday………. I also have to chase accounts

Looking forward to us ALL getting on later this arvo. Have a nice time away Tonyn this weekend.I want pics of you with the NEW M3 hehehe

yeah again i apologise alborz…. but he did need to be pulled in line…. by the way did you get my email? happy to help if i can?

We hope you come back Paul ……..more than happy to start a fresh!

Very true GFITGT………gee I wish you would get a smaller name again.hahaha. That is the passion of loving cars!

Hey Ross…..your in W.A ? Maybe we could have our own CA Xmas party? Not many of us ! Bloody QLDers…hehehe

Have a great time away this weekend Tonyn, and don’t spend too long down the pub Andrew tonight!

Hey NM ………gee you have a great range of vocabulary,you should have been a writer not a builder/bad debit collector at the moment! Hope you get him! You can really do 100 push ups ??????? I cant do chin ups,don’t have those muscles!

Can I have your email address?

Alborz if you haven’t gone away for the weekend ,could I have Ross’s email address if he says ok!

Anyone else want to come,know Cobra 045 will!

Just asked Alborz for your email address Ross,sorry logged off early last night.