Toyota outsells Holden and Ford combined
6 Nov, 2007
178 Comments 
Most of you are probably used to the monthly “Toyota remains on top” headlines here, but October was a little different. Toyota managed to not only outsell Holden and Ford individually, but also beat the combined total of its two rivals.
Last month Toyota sold 20,212 cars, compared with the combined Holden and Ford total of 19,621! It’s not hard to see why, with the company selling the second and third most popular cars in Australia (Corolla, HiLux).
“It has taken us almost 50 years to get to this position in the Australian market - and it is a great achievement for everyone involved with Toyota.” said Toyota Australia’s senior executive director sales and marketing, David Buttner.
Toyota has lifted its market share by 0.5 per cent to 22.4 compared to 2006, having sold 19,000 more vehicles in the same year-to-date period.
The tally for last month goes:
- Corolla (4123)
- HiLux (3752)
- Yaris (2486)
- Camry (1994)
- Aurion (1831)
- Prado (1273)
- Kluger (1173)
The record comes despite some troubled times at Toyota with the company temporarily pulling the TRD Aurion and most recently the all-new V6 RAV4 due to issues with the 2GR-FE 3.5-litre engine.
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:17 am
“OH WHAT A SMASHING FEELING”
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:35 am
In this case i expect Toyota AUS to start posting profits that exceed Ford and holden individually.
That won’t happen though…and i can’t understand why?
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Congrats to Toyota… it would seem people continue to have confidence in their reliability despite the recalls.
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:50 am
congratulations to them.
i have a theory as to why toyotas sales are increasing…. well the population is getting older, more pensioners as ever before, so of course it would make sense for them to buy dull lifeless cars…. hense toyotas increase of sales!!! thats my theory anyway…..
Please take this as scarasam, as i am sitting here laughing to myself just quietly… above all else it is a great achievement…
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Just goes to Show the Australian Motoring public are a bunch of Lemmings.
The Corolla is the product of toyotas contempt for the motoring public. Torsion beam suspension and no DSC. But heres the rub the public allow this contempt by continuing to put it on a pedestal.
This is Truly a VHS vs BETA moment.
The real worry is will other Carmakers dumb down their vehicles to compete?
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:58 am
I wonder, will they get a medal or a chest to pin it on….
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
i didnt realise they used torsion beams?
People are a creature of habit, theres no denying that… i work ata dealership and it amazes me how any people just buy a car cause of the badge on the front, they dont care about features! but they will remain loyal to the brand.
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Its funny how people have tall poppy syndrome when it comes to Toyota. The lack of stability control on the Corolla is a huge disappointment… but at the end of the day Toyota still offer reliability and thats why people buy them, trouble free motoring.
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Remember Toyota Paul you can’t take reliability to your grave.
Think I’d prefer to keep my life and go with a car that has ESP.
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
if people bought on just reliability…. it would be a boring world….
it will be interesting to see how toyotas reliability will remain at a time when sales are increasing rapidly…. it is a little shaky now…
i dont think it is tall poppy syndrome, but when you get toyota shoved down your mouth all the time you cant help but be on the other side a little!
My anti spam word was toyota… freaky!!!
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
That’s a lot more aurions than I thought were being sold :O
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
No its tall poppy syndrome… you Tonyn have always been like this, attacking Toyota. As for maintaining reliability in light of ‘rapid sales’ well it isnt rapid sales, they have been at this current level for a while I believe, the article even says a 0.5% increase in market share, a decen amount but not earth shattering.
Jason I dont deny no ESP is bad form on Toyotas part, but did we have people attacking for example Ford that often prior to their introduction of ESP on the Falcon!? Mention it by all means but dont overshadow a great sales effort by Toyota because of it!
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Speaking of getting things shoved down your throat, I wonder how many Toyota’s John Laws has. For those not in the radio broadcast zone John Laws is the Golden Tonsilled Morning Annoucer on countless radio stations around Oz who is Toyota’s golden boy.
Actually I sometimes wonder if Toyota Paul is actually John Laws… :-) (kidding TP)
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
FACT CLEARLY I AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN = TOYOTA HAVE THE BEST MODEL RANGE AND IT IS A BIG ONE. Risk takers if even if they get bad model made up one year as they plough forward. FORD were like that til dogs body of a letterbox sawtooth grille and weird as lights on AU in 1998 - since then they have frozen with some good cars but too scared to source exciting cars. That dill called Tom Gorman looked worried when pic of him up looking at Holden wagon. He is useless and slow as and if I had my way would chuck him as he is a plodder and not a go getter as he is still twidling his thumbs with Iosis, Verve and Kluga and sitting still on old looking Territory. Mondeo is good news, Fiesta is great, Falcon better be massive upgrade on current model (as Aurion is still top of list for moi in hot Sportivo model).
Lets go through Toyota and reliability issue will be there with all so DONT CARE as not MAJOR worry:
Kluger = hot
RAV4 = hot
Corolla = cute as a pin compared to others
YARIS = better natural look then over tarted up Mazda 2
Camry = bland but great step up from last model
Aurion = Nice, especially in Sportivo model
Aurion TRD = still dont like overdone front air dam / grille
Hilux = great
Hiace = What do Holden and Ford have? Nil nearly
Landcruiser = What do Holden and Ford have? Nil nearly
All companies can have wads of $$$, if designs are wrong and company not hellbent on great looking cars then stale as. Testament of this is FORD in America, go look on website of FORD there and Henry Ford would be turning in his grave and I LAUGH LOUDLY as they would have to pay me to drive some of the disasters called car design.
Well done Toyota as you have the balls to buck the trend with cars I talk of (i.e RAV4 and Kluger are similar size).
What others do BUGGER ALL!
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
NO ARGUING ON HERE “Flying High”, TOYOTA PAUL IS FINE AND ENTITLED TO HIS VIEW AND HE SOMETIMES STEPS OUTSIDE THAT AND LIKES OTHER CARS = FACT, so not out and out and out Toyota lover!
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Iam a Ford supporter but would not hestiate getting a Aurion Sportivo as clincial and great design and top notch inside = forget Ford and Holden
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Maximus you do realise that the Kuga hasn’t been released yet anywhere worldwide, and the Verve and Iosis were only concept vehicles don’t you? You keep mentioning them, but none are actually available yet…
(posted this on ss-v ute page by mistake)
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November 6th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Of course mate, but Ford must be desperate to replace old crap boxed up shit they have with new beaut she bang models. I know a history and all that need to go down that road - I would be fastrack it as crap cars and Ford designers mshit themselves since AU inception in 1998!
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November 6th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Thats OK NM - just giving TP some good natured shit. I agree that Toyota have the best designed shells of almost any manufacturer. I have quoted previously that with a Toyota shell and Subaru internals we would get an excellent package.
But as boring (performance wise) as Toyota’s generally all are - the majority of Ozes car buying public is putting their $ into Toyota, so I cant see them messing with that formula anytime soon. And they are to be congratulated on getting to where they are.
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November 6th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
What??
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November 6th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Paul you shouldn’t be so upset about people attacking Toyota. It still receives plenty of complements from people who come on this website (I’m guessing there over 65 :P ). Plus it’s not like you don’t critcise other cars that aren’t Toyotas.
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November 6th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
If you have a model range as big as what toyota has you should be number 1. Yes they are good cars but I still wouldnt buy one. The toyota’s my parents have owned have broken down repeatedly with no explaination from toyota. Plus they are BORING. They have not got one exciting car in their line up. And if someone mentions the TRD as exciting its only because it can go fastish in a straightline. Plus paying the same price as a F6 for something with the power & torque of an XR6 Turbo is a joke.
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November 6th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Glen,
Exactly.
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November 6th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
geln,
Exactly
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November 6th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Both Holden and Ford need to learn lessons from this.
I’ll say that I feel both Ford and Holden have more ‘exciting’ models than Toyota at the moment, but it should now be clear, this isn’t going to cut it alone. Holden and Ford now need to attack Toyota on it’s base be it perceived, or real, ‘reliability’, and offer a larger range of *quality* product. Holden, bring back the superior Opel Barinas, add diesel options. Ford, bring on the Iosis and Verve.
Toyota needs to attack Ford on Holden on their ‘exciting models’ - SS, XR6/8, FPV, HSV. All need to compete down to the wire, so when it comes for us to buy from any of these big 3, we’ll be paying less for superior product.
For now, I’m sticking with the A4, but will be watching with interest.
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November 6th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
i would say that hyundia is the best buy at the moment - reliable and good quality plus cheap as chips. The new i30 diesel is a great move. If the T brand can bring diesel camry or corolla to oz but excuss of market studies etc.. any info on kia cee’d coming to oz…
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November 6th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Fords and Holdens have to improve the quality of their products. I used my mates ford ute last week. it made terrible suspension noise even through it has seen less than 14000k. In both local cars, the interior panel quality and gaps are not up to par. Also the feul consumption is a problem with high feul price. If both can combine value for metal with quality plus good feul econ - we will have a winner.
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November 6th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
toyota paul… i only attack toyota cause you attack ford…. truly mate you are like a 3 year old, i think you need to grow up when it comes to toyota mate….
I DID say congratulations to toyota earlier in the post… i think it is a great effort. I dont hate toyota products nor have i ever said so. Its so frustrating to hear you dragging everyone into an argument…. you doing exactly the same as you are bagging all of us “ford fairies” for… i hate to say it but it is tiring to hear the same thing over and over again.
We know they are reliable…. we know that…. they build a good product… we all know that… so i cant see your poor me argument… what are you trying to argue about?
once again…. congratulations toyota, you have worked hard to get where you have.
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
aussies are becoming BORING!
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Ok Tonyn Im the one who came here and goes on about his ‘theories’ why Toyota are successful… which is just stupid because Toyotas do well in all countries, not just Australia with an aging population! So please save me commetns like telling me to grow up when you post crap like that.
As for product range no doubt they have a big one, but remember they beat Ford AND Holden in sales, I very much doubt Toyotas range is as large as these two manufacturers combined… they are doing some good work not only in Aus but internationally as always.
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
This is not new, Toyota have been on top for a long time now… When new Fords and Holdens come out soon, it might change.
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
i did say at the bottom of my post it was humour…. or did you forget to read that… selective reading on your part paul… everyone needs a sense of humour you know….
Toyota has a huge range of products, what sort of a comment is that, one of the reasons it is so sucessful is because it competes on every catergory…. so what was that statement about? and comparing the two manufacturers combined, of course they are going to have more products… give me a break… thats like me combining bmw and benz and pitching them against audi… saying poor audi…
Im not here to argue with you paul… im here to read the articles all the guys work hard to produce…. but surely you can see your the most one eyed guy on here… regardless of make… and no matter what you say a brand cannot rely on reliability alone….. im sure kids dont hang a pic of a camry on there wall and look at it, dreaming to own one cause there so reliable…. every brand needs a hero car…. a point you cant clearly understand!
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Has toyota beat Ford and holden for profit? sell as many as you like, if you can’t make resonable profits you won’t last for long.
Ford can still make money off the local market, while exporting cars to a small RHD export base while Toyota relies completely on heavy exports numbers to stay profitable.
When Toyota AUS can make more money than Holden and Ford individually, let alone combined (like their sales) then they will be a company to envy.
Mazda and Honda do a better job than Toyota, while making cars you WANT to drive and have equal reliability.
Many forget toyota buys buisness unlike the other ‘two’ japanese companies.just because you sell the most doesn’t make you the best…
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Actually toyota probably would have beaten both Ford and Holden in terms of profit, considering Ford posted a 40m loss during the last financial year.
(Not having a go at Ford here, its just the cycle and they will have big profits again after the orion, just like they did after the BA)
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Oh, i know what your saying, but Toyota has only recently become profitable and never at the same profit numbers as Ford or Holden, ever.
Toyota is now wanting import tariffs to be frowzen so its exports remain profitable.
My point is Ford hasn’t had any LHD markets to keep it profitable, whos running more efficiently again?
All this while Toyota being market leader for the past 4 years.
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
how do you also explain Honde and Mazda!?
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Tonyn and most non-bogan kids wouldnt have a pic of a Ford or Holden either… I know I didnt! I dont get your argument, ‘every brand needs a hero car’, obviously not because Toyota is the #1 car manufacturing brand in the world!!! For most people quality and reliability is a significant factor in a choice of car, why the hell do you think Hyundai who is now producing some decent cars is going as successful as they should? Beause they are perceived as being poor in these two crucial areas. What you have to realise is this ‘hero car’, vehicles with good handling dynamics and power etc… is a small market relative to the entire market.
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Typo… Hyundai ISNT going as well as they could*
As for profits as said its all cyclical, I dont know how aruging sales v profits is relevant, if anything the fact that these high sales dont translate into high prfoits may be because Toyota invests more into their products then other brands… a bad thing?
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November 6th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Thats why GM has so far this year clawed back number one spot form Toyota?
Or why Hyundai is making alrge RWD V8 sedan?
15-20 years ago Toyota had great RWD, stylish cars, they simply don’t have the same excitment anylonger.
Look for this to change as Toyota itself has realised it needs better looking and more desirable vehicles to help keep it among the top selling brands.
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November 6th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Toyota Paul…
Don’t go making more crap ip to answer the sales vers profit argument, you need profit to stay alive.
i agree it’s all a cycle, trouble is Toyota has never had big profits in AUS compared to Holden and Ford.
Toyota does NOT spend more on product development, you made that one up. A recent report showed Ford was one of the biggest spenders, does this prove anything no…results do and when you sell the most you don’t always show the better profit…try another asnwer that that argument bud.
Like i said explain Honda and Mazda who do have better products?
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November 6th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Don’t underestimate the fact ford and GM are doing quite well worldwide, its the US and here they have lost volume.
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November 6th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
We have too wait till feb for our new corolla!
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November 6th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Adam you are a twat! If you look at the profit announcments for the last financial year you will see how oh so wrong you are. Here we go ford as you read above a 40.3 mill loss, Holden a 146.56 mill loss whilst Toyota MADE 184 MILL PROFIT!!!!!!!!! These are the Aust figures. Would you like a side when you eat your words or maybe a icey cold drink to wash them down! LOL. The way they did this was by not wasting 1 bill developing a car for 1 countries market like Holden, while Toyota develop globel cars then make slight styling changes to suit the market. If Holden update their car with new technology each facelift then they would not have had to cough up such a bull crap amount. If that THING costs a bill to develop then they got ripped.
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November 6th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
How is ford effient when their aust plant is running at about half its capacity. The fact that they do not have LHD falcon and no exports is due to fords poor planning in not utilising all excess plant capacity. Only recently have they announced plans to build the focus in OZ to fill some of this capacity, but thats not till 2011.
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November 6th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
I Do Need a Vent
Kluger = hot - If you’re a Fat Arsed Yank
RAV4 = hot - If you live in Noosa and wear Tweed
Corolla = cute as a pin compared to others - Finally a Corolla that is safer then the model it replaced (see last model in saftey V pre Generation)
YARIS = better natural look then over tarted up Mazda 2 - what Drugs are you on can i have some
Camry = bland but great step up from last model - Shite is still Shite no matter how reliable
Aurion = Nice, especially in Sportivo model - where is my Avalon in beige
Aurion TRD = still dont like overdone front air dam / grille - FWD, Torque, Badge, have i missed anything?
Hilux = great - overpriced Tonka truck, bought by people who follow the badge (and mines) (what is with the undersized tyres)
Hiace = What do Holden and Ford have? Nil nearly - Transit you can park a Hiace in the back of one
Landcruiser = What do Holden and Ford have? Nil nearly- well you have me on this one.
Fair cop to Toyota ns well done , but if you have to buy market share and not earn it ( try competing in the rental market a rolla is cheaper than an Elantra)It must be a hollow victory.
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November 6th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Adam is right what every is going on in little old Australia does not represent the rest of the world,remember there are cities in the rest of the World that have a bigger population than the whole of AUSTRALIA. I think for such a small market we make a pretty good home made product!
Have to laugh at Tonys line on hero posters on the wall,yep I guess unless its a riced up Camry there is no way you would bother!My 13 year old has framed posters on his wall of FPV GT,Subaru WRX,BMW Calander,Russell Ingall when he was with Perkins and Victor Bray. I doubt you would class him as a bogan child. He wares his Craig Lowndes tee shirt when he goes to the races but thats it. He likes a range of cars not just one.
Holden and Ford have been making TRUE hero muscle cars with race heritage for 40 years! Thats a lot of poster on the wall in kids bedrooms! I use to pinch out of DADs Motor Manual and Wheels when I was about 11 ,and I am only 35% bogan I took the test!
It seems that even the fussy old poms like our muscle a little leery for them but they sure do think us Colonials can build a much better car than we used too! You only have to read the Sept issue of Top Gear to see that out of a R8 Commodore and Audi A6 and the Chrysler 300c SRT all around the 40,000 pound mark the STIG..prefered the R8 over the others.
Also was the article with the TORNADO being driven by a Top Gear writer…….he also loved the car!
Gee I wish people could be a little more patrotic to there home grown .After all if Holden and Ford die in Australia we are going to be a real bunch of bored FWDers!
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November 6th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Adam as Mark mentioned and I was going to, the more recent results indicate Toyota are doing well in profits and sales… in fact their profits were higher then Fords even when Ford was making a decent profit (now they are making losses…worldwide)!! Beside this point, you are a typical individual who doesnt look past the profit figures… which are easily manipulated. Put it this way its my line of work… you dont take profit figures as the be all and end all, my investment claim was just one example as to an explanation for profit figures for you. Sift through their respective financial statements before making any real claims.
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November 6th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Adam i agree with what you say.
Mark, you have to be silly if you think you can evaluate the visability of a company over 1 year. would you buy a business that has been established for say 20yrs on 1 yrs figures? ford and holdens current year carry a lot of development costs where as toyota has already passed that part of their cycle.
Paul,
profits are a very important thing. we all know toyota isnt a non profit organisation set up to save the world one reliable car at a time.
GM have just improved their production costs by 17% per unit, so i think thats worth a mention.
also its good to see you skipped over the link i provided you?
im not surprised. its what you do with everything you fear you maybe proved wrong about. here is an extract that is very relevant to this argument.
QUOTE……..
“If you’ve merely done a moderate amount of Internet surfing or cracked open
a newspaper lately - just about any newspaper - you’ve undoubtedly seen the
news that Toyota has once again passed Ford in worldwide auto sales and may
pass GM sometime this year.
But what you may not have seen is that Toyota has already passed both Ford
and GM in a different category - automotive recalls.”
so i ask are they reall maintaining their reliability??
and is this reliability a perception??
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November 6th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Too right Bavarian Missile, Ford Falcon GT is an Australian icon, if kids put posters on the wall SO THEY SHOULD! That means they patrotic and any Australian that says they bogans need to wake up and find out what cars are in the country since the 60s.
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November 6th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Paul,
WHAT? profits arent the be all and end all in business??
we are talking about business arent we?
a good old saying is “I’d rather stay home and go broke than go to work and go broke”
im not saying toyota is going broke, im just saying how can you disregard profit when we are talking business. isnt that why we go into business? to turn a good profit.. and dont we always strive to make a better on each year?
I know I do.
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November 6th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
oh and may i ask who was really sticking the boot in implying that ford was ripping us off in relation to DSC when the aurion had it standard before the falcon.
so now the boots on the other foot with the rolla and suddnley DSC doesnt matter?
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November 6th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
What would I know Andrew.M… this is just my line of work! Profits are easily manipulated by companies… they dont always reflect reality.
As for DSC I said its bad the Corolla doesnt have it…. Andrew.M your credibility is going down even further from that quote I already provided about Ford > Toyoyta in reliability.
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November 6th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
ah so you have a job now paul? Accountancy is it? congrats mate!!
well maybe you might come across the books of a builder now and find they earn a hell of a lot more than you realise. (in good fun of course) i know Klink will get a laugh out of it.
so what are you saying about reliability? whats your take on the reports that toyota has had a hell of a lot more recalls than ford and GM?
do you realise the gap is not as you always suggest?
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November 6th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
yes i know profits are not always the right reflection, but i would say each company would try to reflect them in the same way. in terms of running costs and deductions etc they would all run pretty similar setups.
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November 6th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
My take on reliability is they are still reliable… that link I provided showed Ford and Holden were equal last while Toyota was way ahead in terms of owners needing to bring their cars back to dealerships for unscheduled servicing because their car actually HAS s a problem… a recall on the other hand occurs when the company realises there MAY to be a problem with a particular car line up, not that all the owners who have to bring their cars in have the problems, and rectifies the issue. So although a recall doesnt look great and it really it isnt, the fact remains these aside Toyotas are very reliable… and long term (and judging by sales even short term) they will continue to have strong sales as consumers are not fazed by these reliability issues.
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Toyota have been buying market share in recent years. And it has finally paid off!
If anyone cares to notice, most Toyotas are underspecced when looking at equivelent competitors models. How many years was the Camry/Hilux/Kluger undertyred? Camry only just got ESP for the first time.Corolla still doesn’t.
As reliable as they are Toyota have short changed the mislead buying public for years.
Not to mention that a great majority of Camrys and Corollas are government/ fleet or rental sales.
Hardly something to gloat about.
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Kluger = too ‘feminized’ - not a fan of crossovers.
RAV4 = WAY too feminized. 2.4L is underpowered, and 3.5L is overpriced VS competitors. OLD school 4-speed automatic (on 2.4L) and only 2 standard airbags.
Corolla = 1.8L is underpowered compared to previous lighter model. OLD school 4-speed automatic versus Civics 5-speed. No 2.0/2.4L engine option (as per Mazda3/Civic etc)
YARIS = at $15190, its one of the most expensive and least powerful (1.3L) vehicles in its class.
Camry = Only 2 airbags standard?! All competitors have at least 4.
Aurion = Looks nice, but cant hide fact its a V6 Camry. It ain’t no Avalon replacement (see Toyota US for the real Avalon - its a beauty)
Aurion TRD = no comment. Is it even on sale?
Hilux = Somewhat feminized. Small wheels, NO CHROME! A real truck needs chrome. Bonnet scoop on diesel model is silly. 2.7L engine option needs to be offered on more models. Overpriced.
Hiace = What do Holden and Ford have? Hiace standard model is too narrow. Underpowered - needs to borrow 4.0L V6 engine from HiLux.
Landcruiser = What do Holden and Ford have? Actually, GM have the Hummer H3, which is a worthy competitor.
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Paul,
yes i saw the link you provided and it was just a phone poll conducted by the very same people that conduct the election polls. even the “industry experts” in the article were sceptical that it reflected un true results.
so whats your take on MY non opinionated link i provided you that showed toyota administering over 4 times the recalls that ford has.
what about the 3.5 millon affected vechicles where the owners had to lodge a class-action law suit against toyota for the sludge issues? try tell those owners like toyota did, their vehicles werent affected.
sorry im trying to illustrate that there is a much higher perception of reliability in toyotas than there actually exists. and i can find quotes from industry experts that state that too. they claim most people are afraid to step out side the beliefss that toyotas are the most or extremely reliable
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
David Z,
mate im sure if we scrutinised every manufacturers line up of vehicles we could compile a list of un savoury things. especially when we get into the GM daewoos.
but what you pointed out does illustrate what i believe….
Toyotas are heavily overrated!!!!!!!
i think someone said on a while ago “toyota has no class leading vehicles”. it sounds a little odd that the king pin in sales has no class leading vehicles, but if you actually think about it they really dont have any class leading vehicles.
and if you think even further to what name plates are synominous with toyota, you would say landcruiser and hilux, yet they are possibly further from being class leaders than say an Aurion (the new comer)
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Just read a report that Toyotas Australian assembly/manufacturing plant [in Melbourne] is on “thin ice”.. the apparent reason - the strong Aussie dollar.
How can that be when Toyota are selling more cars
than Ford and Holden combined [both here and OS].
I mean if the Aussie dollar is the reason then surely Holden and Ford should be in more trouble as they’re selling less cars..
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
It great for Toyota doing so well in Australia cause there going backwards in a lot of other Countries including their own.
Toyota recalls 470,000 vehicles in Japan
Toyota said on Wednesday it was recalling more than 470,000 vehicles in Japan in its fifth recall this year, highlighting the carmaker’s struggle to deal with quality problems as it expands globally.
The move brings the total number of vehicles
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the carmaker has had to recall in Japan this year to more than 594,000. It comes after Toyota suffered a blow in the US when Consumer Reports, the influential consumer-advice publication, said it was reversing a practice of automatically recommending all new Toyota cars.
Toyota ranked third behind Honda and Subaru in reliability and two Toyota models had “below average” predicted reliability, Consumer Reports said.
“Consumer Reports will no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design,” said the magazine, which is extremely influential with US car buyers.
The latest recall is for various models, including the Crown luxury sedan, made in Japan between September 1999 and October 2004, and the specific problems include fuel pumps, fuel control and steering, according to Reuters.
The damage to Toyota’s reputation for quality follows a difficult period for the group, which is poised this year to overtake General Motors (NYSE: GM - news) as the world’s largest carmaker.
Recalls in Japan and the US, two of its most important markets, have totalled 1.18m this year.
Last year, when Toyota recalled 2.1m vehicles in the US and Japan, it was ordered by the Japanese government to reduce the number of defects in its cars.
In 2005, Toyota was forced to recall as many as 2.29m cars in the US and more than 1.88m vehicles in Japan, leading the carmaker to set up an emergency task force to improve its quality track record, under the direct leadership of its president, Katsuaki Watanabe.
Since then, recall numbers have been on the decline and Toyota has said it has addressed most of the problems.
However, “it seems, they have not addressed their problems 100 per cent”, said Koji Endo, auto analyst at Credit Suisse in Tokyo. “I don’t think Toyota’s quality has declined.” Half of the top 20-30 cars rated by Consumer Reports are still Toyota cars, he said.
The group is adding 600,000 units of capacity in North America, or more than some companies have as their total output and about a quarter of the entire global car market’s annual expansion.
According to the Bloomberge report on Friday
Toyota’s shares fell 4 percent to 6,480 yen at the close of trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. They’ve fallen 19 percent this year.
Along with another drop in sales in the US the past 3 months.
And this reported on the 16.10.07 on TOYOTA news page .
YONKERS, N.Y. — In a stunning blow to Toyota’s sterling reputation for reliability, Consumer Reports on Tuesday said it no longer recommends the V6 version of the best-selling 2007 Toyota Camry or the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the 2007 Toyota Tundra because of below-average reliability.
In the UK they have done a TOP 100 most reliable cars over the last 10 years
Here are the results
The list, compiled by independent mechanical breakdown insurer, Warranty Direct, found that every car in the Top 10, and an amazing 16 out of the Top 20, were Japanese models. The Honda Accord was at number one.
Models were ranked according to the frequency of failure and based on a database of over 55,000 vehicles. Last year, over 7.5m Britons spent £25bn buying a used car - nearly seven times the number of people who bought a new car privately.
Table Showing The Top Ten Most Reliable Used Cars according to Warranty Direct
Pos Model Used car expert commentary
1 Honda Accord A classy package, well put together and feels more special than the average family car. Superb engines and value for money.
2 Subaru Forester Not quite an off roader, much more than an estate with a sporty edge, making it the perfect combination. Great all round buy.
3 Mazda MX-5 Blueprint for the modern roadster with sweet handling and engines to match. Extremely easy to live with.
4 Mitsubishi Carisma Despite the name, not that interesting to look at or drive, but that’s not the point. Here is a no-nonsense hatchback that won’t let you down.
5 Toyota Yaris Superminis don’t come better. Bags of room and perky engines. Probably the best small car buy.
6 Honda Civic Solid build quality and good engines are just part of the appeal, the Civic is one of the most spacious small cars around. Great value.
7 Nissan Almera A dull package, but that’s no reason to dismiss the Almera which is practical and perfect for the smaller family who need a big boot and utter reliability.
8 Honda CR-V Proof that you don’t need an XXXL 4×4. Here is a four-wheel drive estate that is flexible, easy to drive and own.
9 Toyota RAV4 So few four-wheel drives are fun to drive. This car is suitably sporty, but very practical. Expensive used buy but worth it.
10 Nissan Micra The driving school favourite. Tough, fairly roomy, but with its light controls is easy to steer around town.
The highest placed non-Japanese model was the British built Jaguar X-Type in 13th with the mighty German automotive industry first appearing at number 25 with the sporty executive Mercedes-Benz SLK according to Warranty Direct.
Used car expert, James Ruppert says: “QUOTE”
Volvo’s S/V40 was the highest placed Swedish manufacturer in 15th, with the nation’s most popular manufacturer, Ford, delivering its best ranked model, the Ka, in 22nd. Hyundai’s Lantra was the pick of the Koreans and the Citroen Xsara was the best-placed French model at number 26.
“Obviously reliability is not the main reason why someone might choose one model over another, but it is still an important consideration for the majority,” says Duncan McClure Fisher of Warranty Direct.
“However, used car buyers are considerably more cautious. Japanese models may not be the most charismatic but you’re unlikely to spend a great deal of money and time in the garage keeping it on the road.”
Editor notes
Launched in 1997, Warranty Direct was the first direct personal Warranty Company operating in the UK. As a privately owned insurance intermediary, the firm operates within the automotive and household electrical markets. Its Reliability Index is featured in What Car? Magazine.
All Warranty Direct policies are underwritten by Cassidy Davis, a provider of specialist personal lines insurance. Through the unique licences held by Lloyd’s, they are able to offer products in over 60 countries across the world. In addition, Cassidy Davis policyholders benefit from the financial security provided by the Lloyd’s market.
Pos Model
11 Lexus IS 200
12 Mazda 626
13 Jaguar X-Type
14 Toyota Landcruiser
15 Volvo S/V40
16 MINI (BMW)
17 Suzuki Vitara
18 Mazda 323
19 Toyota Carina E
20 Saab 9-5
21 Lexus LS400
22 Ford Ka
23 Rover 45
24 Hyundai Lantra
25 Mercedes SLK
26 Citroen Xsara
27 Ford Cougar
28 Subaru Impreza
29 Skoda Octavia
30 Audi A4
31 Nissan Primera
32 Toyota Avensis
33 Volvo 850
34 Vauxhall Corsa
35 Seat Toledo
36 Volkswagen Golf
37 Daewoo Lanos
38 Fiat Brava
39 Hyundai Coupe
40 Mitsubishi Shogun
41 Rover 25
42 Mercedes CLK
43 Fiat Marea
44 Ford Focus
45 Peugeot 106
46 MG MG TF
47 BMW Z3
48 Hyundai Accent
49 Volkswagen Polo
50 Fiat Punto
51 Vauxhall Zafira
52 Mercedes C-class
53 Volvo S60
54 Toyota MR2
55 Mazda Xedos 6
56 Ford Puma
57 Vauxhall Astra
58 Vauxhall Omega
59 Chrysler Neon
60 Audi A2
61 Ford Fiesta
62 Ford Mondeo
63 Vauxhall Corsa
64 Citroen Saxo
65 BMW 3 Series
66 Vauxhall Vectra
67 Isuzu Trooper
68 Mercedes M-Class
69 Subaru Legacy
70 Rover 400
71 Fiat Ulysse
72 Mercedes E-Class
73 Renault Clio
74 Toyota Celica
75 Peugeot 306
76 Peugeot 406
77 Volvo S70
78 Rover 75
79 Daewoo Matiz
80 Peugeot 206
81 Mazda MX-3
82 Vauxhall Tigra
83 Seat Ibiza
84 Peugeot 106
85 Renault Megane
86 Peugeot 406
87 Saab 9-3
88 Audi A3
89 BMW X5
90 Mercedes S-class
91 Toyota Corolla
92 Seat Alhambra
93 BMW 5-series
94 Daewoo Nubira
95 Alfa Romeo 145
96 Saab 900
97 Mazda MX-6
98 Jaguar S-Type
99 Daewoo Leganza
100 Porsche Boxster
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Now Adam & Andrew M:
1. My post on profit results was relating to Adam’s dumb comment “When Toyota AUS can make more money than Holden and Ford individually, let alone combined (like their sales) then they will be a company to envy”, clearly it’s a fact that on last years results along this is the case.
2. As for the post from Andrew M that “ford and holdens current year carry a lot of development costs where as toyota has already passed that part of their cycle” is not 100% correct, last time I checked both Toyota & Holden released local vehicles in the same year (2006) which is the year the profit (losses in Holden & Ford’s case) above are from. Besides, development costs in a vehicle project are incurred early in the project so the majority of Holden’s $1 billion investment in VE would have been during the 2002-5 period.
3. As for Adam’s statement “Don’t underestimate the fact ford and GM are doing quite well worldwide”, last time I checked, their Global profits for Q2 2007 were Toyota US$5.48B, GM US$0.891B, Ford US$0.75B.
4. Bavarian Missile - I must agree with your statement “Gee I wish people could be a little more patrotic to there home grown”, it’s disappointing that only 17% of sales (and reducing) are locally produced cars, but these days there’s so much choice in the market compared to years ago.
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
There is no doubt that Toyota is incurring a little rough patch with reliability, but you can bet they will be working their butts off to rectify it.
Can I just point out that when comparing product recalls, the number of cars sold should be taken into account. Toyota should be allowed double the number of recalls of either Ford or Holden at least in Australia :-)
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November 6th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
The Axe - Please . . . . Toyota’s underspeced compared to their competitors? Go and do your spec comparison between the Commodore Omega & Aurion AT-X and get back to me. The only thing the Crapodore has going for it is it is RWD.
Check how many speed A/T they have, # of airbags, spare tyre (full or space saver), power, just to name a few.
I think you will find that the Crapodore lacks specification in all of the above areas.
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
ANDREW M…7.42pm Yes LOL
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Thats interesting Wheelnut…….similar to what Andrew has said before, maybe by Ford not choosing to market overseas at the moment isn’t a bad move after all! Holden too would be feeling it!
W.A mining boom has been reportedly to be with us for the next 20 years…….will be interesting to see if that helps us to sustain our dollar.First time last week I have seen the Canadian dollar worth more than the US. America seems to be in recession have been I think since 911,doesn’t seem they have every really recovered .Will be interesting to see what the US market does with GMH products…..it seems more and more Americans are buying those stupid little Toyota Prius’s .The new Volvo……….they are looking for economy!
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
Yeah the Prius. The wedge with lights. Shame Civic not more better motor and economy as miles better looking.
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Geez this place turns to shit when any good news of Toyota is mentioned. Why don’t the fan boys arc up when there’s a major recall, or an accident due to a major engine failure?
I think it’s because they have their tail between their legs and their foot in their mouth. A bit like their favourite marquee…. Except the difference is, they marquee has their design department and safety department heads stuck up the finance department’s arse. Licking it clean and producing boring as batshit, mundane, beige, pants! cars that have zero life and feel to them. They might as well sculpture them out of a block of wood, as it has roughly the same feel.
You want a car that is a hoot to drive and has nearly all the safety features you can fit in a car? Get a Renault Megane.
Steve
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Wheelnut,
the reason may be that toyota depends heavily on exports where as ford and holden dont as much.
ford and holden can obviously survive on local sales (as they have proven) but toyota must not be “geared” to do so.
ford and holden also sell more locally made cars to locals aswell. meaning they are selling more in the same economic climate as the manufacture. (although they dont sell much more local made stuff than toyota)
Mark,
yes thats true holden did start a cycle at the same time but holden had a major development.
how much does toyota actually develop here? i’d say a lot of their development costs wouldnt be incurred within Australia. and you cant say holden isnt selling VE’s to recoup that huge outlay. oh and dont forget the 2006 figures would come from june ‘06. Thats right before the VE was released. whats the june ‘07 figure for holden? thats the better idea as it should have expelled most of the costs by june ‘07
as for ford….. well they definately are out of sync with toyota and holden at the moment. their costs would have been reflected 06, etc and dont be surprised to see reflections of that come june ‘08.
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
no worries Klink i knew i would get a cheap laugh out of you ha ha ha
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Andrew,
may i just point out that toyota has more than double the recalls of ford. it is more than 4 times in fact. that should surely make up for their higher unit out put.
even in one year they recalled more units than they made
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
As Ive said Toyota still get favourably results in reliability surveys… a recall doesnt necessarily mean every car recalled has a problem.
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Mark, you came up with one product only. What about Toyotas number one seller (to rental buyers, the Corolla? What about Hilux? Check the spec sheets of various Toyota products vs the competition, not just Holden.
Yaris is a good example of a great product, but you pay for it.
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November 6th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Well cheapish excluding GST portion.
Trouble is have to deal with some real oxygen wasters and makes it hard - that is why I have a really sharp 29page typed contract over and above HIA Contract. Cairns or North Brissie around Maroochydore is coming! All I will say ANDREW M is Iam at a loss these wallies can actually vote. I have a saying that there are some 20.95million sheep in Australia and some 50,000sheep dogs based on observations in life. Should take up drinking more as limited there as been there done that! Water bed and girl at time was too much - felt like I was on a blow up mattress off Cape Horn where most savage seas are!
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November 6th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Water bed and heaps of booze = disaster. Doubled with girl beside! NEVER AGAIN
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Water beds……..yep that and a hang over together. I think I would prefer to wake up in the gutter,would have to be careful a Prius wouldn’t sneak up on you and run you over! Night
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Wheelnut
toyota corolla and camry/aurion and hilux are global platform cars and are produced in other countries as well. so if the aussie dollar is too strong nobody would buy from toyota australia.
thailand is the culprit.
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
as has been stated previously the reason holden and ford cant compete with toyota is that their model range simply cannot compete with the accross the board completeness of the toyota range. Look at the models holden and ford have no direct competitor for:
Rav 4 (the captiva and territory are more kluger competitors)
Prado
LandCruiser
LandCruiser 70
HiAce (its incredible how many of these toyota sells)
Torago
Avensis
Prius
thats alot of cars and i bet if you added it all up, a hell of alot of sales!
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November 6th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
at the end of the day tho, its all about profits, not sales volumes, and toyota beats holden and ford at that too! lol
but frankly holden and ford will never match toyota for sales and they know that, thats why i think you will see holden and ford concentrating more on profitability in the comming years rather then sales volumes, particularly with their parent companies respective financial troubles!
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:03 am
Its not surprising.
But in all honesty, and this is no BS. This is my perspective a lot of people who are in the automotive engineering field. Not just from Toyota, but ex-Ford, ex-GM, ex-Jaguar, ex-BMW engineers, they all agree that the way Toyota conducts their activities, how much regulations, how much standards, how much reviews each design, change proposals go through… it eliminates a lot of faults and it leads to higher quality of product. Yes it leads to a “boring” product as some of you guys say, but the truth of the matter is, and I can probably write a thesis on this, nah better not, that in the end, you market to your demographics. Most of us here are enthusiast, 2-3 cars, good chance of being sports model… I also admit I bought mine second hand…. I’m in the 25~30 year demographic section, I could of bought a new car, but since I’m in Australia (well not currently), the choices of vehicles that is within my price range is not appealing period. brand new Performance cars sell very little in Oz, and the market isnt big enough either to justify designing a sports car or even importing them here in a mass volume size, hence the high price of the sports cars and hence they only reach their intended market as second hand… in Oz anyways…. how many japanese imports, second hand mind you have made it in our shore lines…?
The fact of the matter is, small cars are on the rise, commerical vehicles are always there, fleet cars are always strong sellers… and thats what Toyota sells the most in oz, and thats what they concentrate on too…. Other countries, specifically Japan, the range of Toyota cars there are ridiculously high… I’m a Nissan fan as much as I am a Toyota fan, Subaru too… but Nissan isnt exactly doing to well financially in Oz… they have a lot of performance vehicles… but guess what they are actually killing some off because they dont make much profit off them… but the second hand market is huge… 180SXs, 200SXs, GTRs, GTSs, 300ZXs, soon 350Zs etc…
Toyota killed off the celica, mr2 for a reason… Supra too unfortunately… its just the market dictates it that way… their market today are 18~25 year olds who drive those NA Supras… one reason I dont even drive my TT out there anymore. The point is… the performance market is saturated with GREAT performing second hand cars….. and lacking a lot of new family/compact sedans… most people I’ll say about 75~80% of people looking for a car, are going to finance it, they will also buy it not for performance alone, heck that bit is probably 5th or 6th in the ranking…. you want a good car to drive everyday (economic), relatively valued (Good… but err.. cheap), has the correct functions (do i need 4WD?… do i need to do fishtails everynow and then?… or do I just want a car that goes?), storage/size (how many kids do I have?, would owning 1 car and it being a 2 seater a good idea?, where do I put my bag/tools?), features/safety (air bags?, crash test results?, it wont blow up would it?, ABS/DSC etc), Insurance and maintanability (if I damage a part how long do I wait?, how much is the monthly fee for insurance?)… and then you look at the performance (wow 300kW Fully Sick!, HAHA as if driving on Australian roads require more than 100kW these days… I woouldnt be surprise if they lower the speed limit to 70 bastards!)…
If you understand what I was getting at.. then its a start on how you will eventually understand why companies.. successful companies.. think!
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Richo,
Toyota is profitable it just siphons the money offshore through inflating the price the local arm pays for its imported cars.
In fact the ATO have wacked it with a 100% mark up on its tax bill this year. & it is still investigating previous years.
Good australian corporate citizen?
So Next time you buy a corolla remember that Toyota is defrauding Australia….go see a doctor too because there are much better cars out there.
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:16 am
well now im a bogan and had time to calm down just a little…. ill respond to you paul!
I still have posters and stuff or cars and racing i have been enthralled in around my house and im 24.
Purely and simply if a hero car didnt matter why would toyota come up with TRD? trust me its not just for s#$ts and giggles i can assure you.
One of the reasons ford and holden have such a loyal and big following in oz is they have created cars that have inspired people, like the GT falcon and GTS monaro! buying a relaible is a huge part of the decision, but if it look dull and boring well its not going to hold up either…..
You dont automaticly become a bogan if you like fords and holdens…. as i have said to you before… ive owned fords, toyotas, mercedes, audi and mitsubishis….. i am a ford supporter.
every report i read lately has toyota slipping in reliability… and if you keep clinging onto it, it would be like us ” ford fairies” clinging onto when the GTHO falcon was the worlds fastest four door in 1971!!!…. and i think you need to read the facts….
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....refer=home
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7055778.stm
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/171020.....japan.html
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.....9010848601
these are all reports of toyota slipping reliability….. maybe you should read them sometime….
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:20 am
Richo you are a classic bogan wanka,where do you think the profits (or in the last couple of years -losses )of Holden aka GM and Ford go .in case you didn’t know they are American owned companies ,the same as Toyota is Japanese OWNED.get your head out of your **se.Dennis.
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:21 am
S
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:22 am
sorry Richo the last post was for Trackdaze.
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:56 am
I draw your attention to the following link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7055778.stm
This link shows quite clearly that firstly Toyota is not the largest carmaker in the world and that has been toppled by GM (General Motors)! Huh who would of thought that, and GM overtook Toyota! For now that is the reality of the situation! No discussions about that as any drivel to challenge that is just that - drivel! Bear in mind the source is reputable being the BBC so it would not be inaccurate 1%.
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November 7th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Further digging up revealed as at Wednesday October 17, 05:35PM on the following link major reliability issues that largely have gone by not really known by the public:
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/171020.....apan.html. Again bear in mind this is reality and reliable reporting!
The thing which I laughed heaps and hard about is that last year the Japanese government had to intervene (actually ORDERED TO) to reduce the number of defects in its cars, when Toyota recalled 2.1m vehicles in the US and Japan alone. Whilst it is being addressed, problems still remain and it took the Japanese Government to intervene which is a JOKE as Government streamlining there approach to produce cars as the road they went down was not straight down the middle, but a maze Toyota got lost on! Fancy that TOYOTA PAUL; who would of thought Government to step in!
Then we go back a wee tad to 2005, Toyota was forced to recall as many as 2.29m cars in the US and more than 1.88m vehicles in Japan (4.17million cars from only two countries gee shock horror), leading the carmaker to set up an emergency task force to improve its quality track record, under the direct leadership of its president, Katsuaki Watanabe. ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS THIS OR REARRANGES TO ACCEPT THAT IS A JOKE WANNABE! Maybe these same negative people who dont deal with reality and go off there gut feeling (which I may add is based a heap on upbringing as a kid) also believe that the world is flat or maybe John Howard is a rock star in a punk rock band in Amsterdam! LOL to the power of 629!
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Jamison Im not sure if Toyota focuses on fleet sales, Holden and Ford sell 80% of the Commodore and Falcon to fleets while Toyota highest selling fleet car is the Corolla at 60%. Granted they offer a greater fleet range, but not knowing the % for Aurion and Camry I dont think theyd be particularly high. On top of this the Corolla is the number 1 selling car among private buyers in Australia (and the world of course) with another model (forgot which one exactly) also in the top 5 of popular private buyers. But I agree they dont cater for the performance market… the cash is in the masses!
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Oh in saying ‘the masses’ thats not really limited to Toyota, every brand WANTS to appeal to the masses… why do you think say Ford offers performance with regular vehicles? They are trying to cover a greater market with their brands. But Toyota seems to do well at really focusing in at the main segment, non-performance based vehicles… where things like reliability are held in high regard over performance.
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Toyota the perfect car for people who don’t care about a cars looks, driving dynamics or street cred that just want the quietest thing top get them to and from lawn bowls or the local RSL
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Toyotas dont look that bad… the latest models in particular as starting to look better then their “sportier” rivals.
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
TOYOTA PAUL…research time and got some great facts multiple sites to shoot you down in flames a tad. I tried uploading it and it was not allowed on and it clearly is facts. I will upload it without mention of links as NOT CLEARLY AS ROSY AS WHAT YOU VIEW FROM YOUR END!
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
TOYOTA PAUL’s entree - research Japanese Government and orders towards Toyota forcing them to lift there act up on reliability as major major problems. And suprise suprise - did you know GM is the largest seller of cars worldwide for 3months leading up til September 2007; ahead of Toyota.
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November 7th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Millions of cars recalled and great reading on bbc, Bloomberg, BBC news. And we are NOT talking minor numbers clearly or blah…blah…blah (gut feelings of Toyota supporters) of many TOYOTA LOVERS oblivious to worldwide effects of this carmaker.
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
ive up loaded some lins awaiting moderation that will put paul to rest a bit too…..
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Go see 380 post, I await a response!
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
I may to be able to respond asap but I will eventually! Funny how this information is meant to ’shoot be down in flames’ yet when I post quite conclusive evidecne for example that I didnt lie about Andrew.M or that Toyota IN AUSTRALIA are reliable, they still aernt accepted!!! None the less I will show a more open view and accept them then the people accusing me of being closed (Tonyn Im mainly referring to you, although NM is sometimes guilty)!!!
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
WRONG = past tense PAUL. TOYOTA PAUL - go to 380 post and comment please?
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
TOYOTA PAUL…I only said shoot you down on flames a tad! Dont overeact as minor comment! I had significant writeup done based on facts and was not put up.
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Jamison,
you made me read all that to tell me how i decide on a car to buy? well thats not how i buy a car anyway.
Paul,
1.
you didnt prove anything… you accused me of saying….”fords have a better track record in terms of reliability than toyota”
Did you find that exact quote? YES OR NO??
you posted something else and tried to tell me thats what i meant.
2. you struggle to grasp any negativity towards toyota. so its not bad to have recalls now is it? gee you love sticking the boot in to holden for their many recalls on the VE but when it is shown toyota still easily lead the recall tally it means nothing?
you are missing the point that your “evidence” is a SURVEY. it is inconclusive and critisized by experts. yeah not every car that is recalled exhibits the problem,butnotvery one was surveyed in the AC Neilson phone poll and not every one that has a problem takes it back either
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
TOYOTA PAUL…can see your side about ANDREW M as well as yours TOYOTA PAUL, but must say that it does not conclude Andrew M meaning that ”Fords have a better track record in terms of reliability than Toyota” as that is not what is undelying foundation of sentence struture or format of his post you refer to!
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Thanks NM,
i know you were following the posts at that time so its good to see that im not the only one that feels Paul is illuding to something that wasnt said.
so out of interest you are in QLD right? what area? where is most of your work?
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
ANDREW M…not in QLD, am in northern NSW. Getting boat refurbished fully and relocating work to either around Buderim or Cairns as better state, better location, better people, better climate, just plain old better! Getting sick of building for people who are possessing one braincell here - sometimes I think they timeshare that one braincell - Ha Ha!
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
when has it ever been said by anyone that ford has a better track record than toyota? no one has ever said that.
The reason i keep coming back it it seems some people cant grasp the fact toyota is not as reliable as it was WORLDWIDE….. you can bag me and andrewm aout all you want but were not trying to discredit toyotas track record on reliability…. i am trying to prove the point that therer not as far in front reliability as they think they are, which quite frankly there not!
Its a bit like mcdonalds healthy choices… just because they say its healthy doesnt mean it is!
And paul maybe they would be accepted if you didnt ram it down all of out throats here, the only reason i wont back down is you wont accept the fact toyota are not as good as they once were…. and the fact i am fired up about the bogan comment!
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
yeah bogans drive toyotas too you must realise. 1 great example is “lowluxs’s”.
thats right tonyn, the only thing being argued is the “reliability” gap or difference isnt as big as percieved and now days even less
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November 7th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Time share a brain cell….very good!
Your absolutely right on the World wide aspect Tonyn,it seems we keep coming back to the Australian reliability issue and making money here but their loosing it else where along with their credability.
Thats ok Tonyn ,I know your not a bogan….I know what you got pizza in last night!!!Lucky bugger……..think of me when your flat stick in the M3 this Saturday! I want to know what that new V8 sounds like at 8 grand in 2nd!!!!!!!!dont let bounce off the rev limiter too long..hehehe
Bogans drive every thing…….I remember seeing a rather large couple getting out of a E46M3 in a not to affluent suburb ,wearing unbranded thongs,stubbies and white tank tops…….going into a second hand shop! Thinking so thats how you can afford the M3 ha…. Nothing against 2nd hand shops by the way! I know Im a snob other half tells me ALL the time!
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Sorry Paul that was go to Mitsubishi 380 post and refer my comments as still to be convinced on your response to my question I put tou you! Iam not holding you accountable - just telling you you contradict yourself there.
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Sorry NM and Andrew.M that link was conclusive, you compared Toyota v Ford and said Ford had everything over Toyota except in Toyota, where you then proceeded to say words to the effect of ‘I give in’, because you HAD been arguing they were better. There was even abit before this quote where you mentioned more. You cannot twist the facts.
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
in reliability*
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Nm as for 380 mate I think its abit of a joke what your doing obviously in defence of Andrew.M, my credbility over these issues at least cant be attacked based on ‘contradictions’ that dont even exist, I said The 380 is uglier then the Lancer and that it would have been better to have it look like the Lancer…which yes Ive expressed isnt perfect (not only rear end but interior) but given its package I can handle these drawbacks. Your going to have to dig up something better.. I have no doubt if you search long enough you will find contradictions, but on this occasion no dice.
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Paul what i gave in on was the reliability subject and trying to tell you that the gap isnt as big as you make out!!! it all started from you saying toyotas are bullet proof, a comment which you deny you made even after i found THE ACTUAL TEXT
how is that survey conclusive? it an opinion poll pretty much. so what was the target audience? how many were surveyed? to be conclusive they would have needed to contact every vehicle owner in OZ. and then interperit whether or not those people were totally honest/ or understood the questions.
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
OK - so you put back of current Lancer on 380, all of a sudden better and you would be interested to by. You then previously say Lancer butt is average, so how do u put on 380 and all of a sudden better??? CONUNDRUM HEAPS THAT ONE PAUL - LOL x398
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
FULL HOUSE on 380 and ROYAL FLUSH with sorry to ANDREW M…. If it was craps table then no hope!
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
One would clearly assume that adding an inferior butt onto back of another car with similar butt would NOT improve its look - somehow threw bending a spoon or using mirrors you deduce opposite. Paul - no attacks on each other! Its small shit yes but that is my point mate.
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November 7th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
OK. Not digging up any shit as just remembered ya views on Lancer. My point is dice, as you added to why you like 380 more “…as given as a package” (???) and yet at 8.52pm on 380 post you only spoke of exterior look! Pinpoint what ya mean as would like to know what ya stand for?
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November 7th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
… typo forget 8.52pm.
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November 7th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Whats going on here? …This again!
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November 7th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Nope not revving him, he cleared it up as expanded on his earlier comment that was on the 380 post!
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November 8th, 2007 at 8:33 am
hehehe…. iwll let you know what the M3 is like…. im sure it will be good, im not a bmw fan, always had benzes and audis… but that m3 impressed me bar the smg!
Yeah it was a good pizza trip! concidering i drove an extra 50klms each way to get it!!! hehehehe….
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November 8th, 2007 at 9:48 am
MARK…
Look back at the last 5 years of profit vers sales for Ford, holden and toyota. Not just one year Mark you ‘twat’.
If we looked at one years worth of profits Toyota wouldn’t exist here…
Worldwide Toyota IS more profitable than GM or Ford, no doubt, never said they weren’t.
Lets look at Australias market shall we as many are gloating about Toyota outselling Ford and Holden combined, for ONE month mind you…
Ford sell only in RHD markets and profits come from that ONLY and has done for how long now? and has to fund it’s own local products, right?
Holden was in the same boat until the VE platform program came along.
Toyota has only just started to turn a profit for the last 2 financial years.
Now take a good hard look at the profits Toyota have made over the last 2 years and losses for the last 5 years and compare that with the profits and loss Ford and Holden has made over the last 5 years…
WQhat do you see.
In the same 5 year period and this is just for last 5 years, not the mention the last 10 years! Toyota has been market leader for 4 of thethose 5 years, shouldn’t toyota be making more than Ford and Holden? and if people want to gloat about toyota out selling Ford and Holden combined for ONE month which is silly to draw a definate conslusion anyhow, they should bloody pull better profits than ford and holden combined also, don’t you think Paul and Mark??
That would be silly i agree!!
paul you claim profits can be manipulated…maybe so, but no so much in the Auto industry, they work on shorther periods of loss vers profit…you can’t compare your industry with the auto industry directly, simple.
Wasn’t it Toyota who has altercations with the Tax department? what was that all about Pual if you know so much about auto company profits and finances??
When i say ford running more efficient…i mean Ford AUS, like Toyota AUS not Ford worldwide or Toyota worldwide, ok…like we are talking about Toyota AUS sales not worldwide sales, ok…?
Now…
Ford DOES run more efficiently than Toyota AUS, thats a simple FACT that paul and mark need to accept.
Toyota AUS sell over 200.000 vehicles a year in AUS, yet pulls how much profit?? then exports 90,000 + camrys also, to make a total of 290,000 units being pumped out of Altona a year…correct?? and they make how much again??
Ford does barley 100,000 units a year and makes how much??
Holden does 150,000 units and makes how much??
Now again please tell me how efficient Toyota AUS is??
Remember take the average over the last 5 years…add 10 years if you like,, the picture stays the same…
Toyota has admitted itself that take away exports and they would be losing money easily…3
wonder why they are winging about freezing import tariffs come 2010 to the current levels…
Imagine if Ford AUS did have an export program!? they would kick toyota butt easily for profit and efficiency!!
Paul you mention how profit is not the most important thing and how figures can be manipulated…ok, maybe you would like to explain that one to Toyota Copr worldwide who are the most cash rich auto company going around!!??
first excuse you use is Toyota AUS spend more money, wrong!
Ford and Holden spend more than Toyota AUS does on local product development, jeez some of you need to get some true and accurate information.
Now you claim profit figures are manipulated and not the first priority in the auto buisness but you would be WRONG agian.
Now explain Honda and Mazda which i see Paul and Mark have left out of the picture…??