Mark Skaife, Australian V8 Supercar driver and Holden Ambassador, has come under fire from Victorian Premier John Brumby after presenting a proposal to make Australia’s roads safer by employing a more European approach to speed and driver training – a view long held by CarAdvice.
In his proposal, Skaife highlights the fundamental flaws of Australia’s current road system including the desperate need for improved young driver training and increasing the number of safer cars on our roads.
Unfortunately with the demonization of speeding engrained in the minds of Australian motorists and politicians, Skaife’s suggestion to bump the national speed limit up to 140km/h has become the sole focus of the proposal with Premier Brumby saying that it would have a “catastrophic impact” by sending the death toll soaring.
“We have no plans to change the speed limit,” Premier John Brumby said. “You will never lower your road toll if you have a top speed limit of 140km/h — indeed, if you drive at that speed in Victoria you will lose your licence. It is a hoon driving offence.”
Following years of road safety campaigns convincing the Australian public that “every kay over is a killer”, the proposal is struggling to gain momentum in parliament with Deputy Commissioner (Traffic) Ken Lay backing Premier Brumby in rejecting the plan.
This has left Skaife noticeably frustrated with the majority of his opposition misinterpreting the core initiatives of his proposal to improve the standard of safety on our roads.
“He’s missed some of the critical pillars of what I was saying — improved driver training, better roads and maintenance and encouraging people to drive safer cars,” Mark Skaife said.
“Don’t just focus on the one thing that is controversial, focus on the other items that are critical to road safety, the things we have to do to make a difference and then comment on whether the 140 limit is appropriate,” he said.
Skaife has cited the German approach to road safety as the benchmark for which Australia’s current system should be judged, pointing out that despite having no speed limits on parts of its freeway network Germany still remains at the forefront of road safety.
He also emphasised that the lack of driver training coupled with the fact that younger motorists are less likely to be able to afford newer, safer vehicles is the main reason why P-platers are still so well represented in Australia’s road toll.
Despite boasting the statistics to back the common-sense initiatives he proposes, Skaife’s words have fallen on deaf ears with the majority adhering to the ‘speed kills’ mantra and immediately condemning his suggestions.
In contrast, the government has formulated its own campaign to stem the road toll in the form of the new Hoon laws which continue to punish and condemn offenders after the fact rather than instigating a proactive solution to save lives.
Source: Herald Sun
Brumby is useless and has no idea.
Australia ia a backwater, and will remain backwater. Every state is run by idiots, cops are toeing the official system line since they get paid and they don’t want to lose jobs, so called experts are all on government payrolls – and all along TAC is making profit, and speed cameras are putting 4mil into the state budget,and young are dying since they don’t even have basic skills to drive. Without demonising speed Victoria and most other states would be bankrupt. Good on Skaife and Webber and many others stating the obvious, unfortunately neither labor or liberals don’t care – democracy, there is no democracy in Australia, just another big prison.
It’s a shame that Ted Ballieu will also be useless with no idea if he’s premier as well.
Mark Skaife, run for the Liberal party PLEASE!!!!!
labor=liberal……its all the same gang. Vote for the independents if they are smart and not tied into party toeing line type business.
Mark,you didnt mention a rise in revenue.Of course their not going to listen to you.Unfortunately its all about the money.They even budget for it now,just look at the recently released state budget.They included fine revenue.
Mark your wasting your time.
Skaife couldn’t be more correct.
Anybody who has spent time driving in Germany would understand his proposal entirely, but sadly, Brumby and his band of blindly loyal followers will never put progressive thinking and rock solid measures (that will save countless lives) before speed cameras and the bags of gold they deliver to the state governments of Australia, day in, and day out.
Let’s just hope those with influence get behind Mark Skaife and put an end to draconian laws and flawed policy that cost the lives of our precious young year after year.
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It may seem one sided but the fact is this is an opinion CarAdvice shares and is passionate about.
His proposal has been watered down to the 140km/h speed limit argument and as such has taken a battering in the media and it is about time he got some support.
I refuse to sit back merely as the messenger on this issue, this is a culture which will save countless lives and I for one and more than happy to back Skaife 100 per cent.
I don’t think the government was ever going to embrace something that was going to require them to invest more into driver training and cut one of their major sources of revenue. Saving lives is always going to be second to fiscal policy
George, do you consider yourself a journalist? If so, you might want to think again as this is hardly objective reporting. Leave the opinion pieces to the Editors Column.
Gotta love Skaifey. Good on him for trying at least.
The reason they won’t do it, is because of the cost of resurfacing the roads and training young drivers. It is much easier for the government to claim that death on the roads is caused mostly by speed. Thereore allowing them to receive more and more revenue from speed cameras.
Just look at statistics. Germany versus Australia. Dead per 100,000 in Germany is just a little bit lower than here but there is no speed limit and tis is not just in Germany many European countries speed limit is 130km/h but in built-up areas is only 50km/h.
There are 3 variables in this case study, be buggered if you think speed is the controlling factor
Everyone needs to understand – Australia is HUGE. Victoria is almost in size to Germany, and population is 8% of German population.Driving for 5hrs to get to your destination, falling asleep and running of the roads – no wonder we need higher speeds on highways and freeways.Brumby/Bracks/Lay and the rest of scumbags need to understand – we are huge, we need to drive faster to get to our destinations, and they also need to know that without much, much, much better driver training and better cars this state will fall apart.Just look at the congestion even on city roads with these idiotic 40kmh zones(that haven’t changed anything when it comes to raod tolls – just another political knee jerk reaction, justifying their jobs),80 on westgate and the tunnel – this is crazy – no wonder it takes people 1hr+ to get home.Traffic is just clogged up by idiotic laws, low speed limits, and idiots that can’t drive.
Didnt like him as a racer, but you really have to agree with all the points skaifey is making here. Having driven in europe and the states i can safely say driver culture in Australia is the worst out of the developed world.
I agree with the culture problem there, sorry for ranting off my person life, but i was at my girlfriends house the other week and her grandmother was persistent in telling me “there is no need to ever do above 90kmh”, she also said “i usually look at the speed limit and deduct 10kmh, im a safe driver”.
Obviously, i bit my lip, but these type of people are the ones that form moving road blocks on our road, and are by far the most dangerous. Unfortunately, with the reckless kids doing burnouts everywere, the import racers, and the rest of the population who are just hopeless at driving, have no idea how to control a car and are plain scared of automobiles, the chance of the culture changing to a safe controlled activity is slim.
Why “bit your lip” – you should have told her to go to hell, and get herself off the roads, before she frustrates others into an accident. These so called safe people are the biggest problem. Would love to see that gran driving from Mlb to Adelaide – lets see who would be more relaxed at the end of the trip – me at 140-160kmh or she driving at 90(genuine maybe 80-82 if speedo says 90). Crazy.Get these people off the roads.
Well, i didn’t really want to start a fight at the table, and i figured my opinion would be lost on the likes of her, she was decisively ‘anti car’.
Im not actually sure who said this, i think it was Jeremy Clarkson, but it was something along the lines of “Bad drivers hate cars, why would you like something you’re not good at?”. Thats a very bad paraphrase but the point stands.
The people on this site, who care, want to make informed decisions about the car they buy are the ones who are most likely to be talented drivers on the road. I persist, i am a good driver, and i follow the draconian speed limits because a rather stupid trip to 140kmh in a double demerit period has left me with no choice but to count every point left.
Sadly, i think the people doing 90 and essentially being moving road blocks are causing more danger to the general public than my 140 at 3am on a 6 lane highway ever did…
I agree totally. My step-mother the other day told me that if the speed limit (on the Hume Hwy, for example) is 110km/h, then she sits just under that in the right lane to teach those behind her no to speed. Unbelievable!!! I told her she is an absolute danger on the road and the big sign that says “Keep left unless overtaking” is also there for safety.
If she’s so anti car maybe she should get back on the horse that was the primary mode of transportation in her day. At least it’ll be more at her pace ;-)
I agree 100%. Also, I just love old, retired people with 168 free hours a week preaching like that. Morons doing 10 – 20 k over the limit are far more of a danger than the young hoon 15 k over the limit.
To me, the main issues are “culture”, and the roads. Not so important is the car. If you’re a ‘actual’ good driver, the car is not as important as you will not face such situations in the first place.
On the note of the parents – they don’t know how to drive properly in the first place! – Go figure!
Skaifey is driving a Falcon in that clip – perhaps a stab at his former Holden paymasters?
You can’t expect much from a moron like John Brumby; the “Premier” who decided to fund Tiger Wood’s little expedition to Victoria with $3 million of taxpayers money. Brumby is no different to d*ckheads like Harold Scruby (another brown-noser who loves appealing to the lowest common denominator with the “speed kills” rhetoric).
Skaife was driving a Falcon in that clip because it was one of the “safety cars” that are currently being trialled. These cars know what the speed limit is via GPS etc and will not let you speed. ie if you drift over a 60km/h limit to say 65, it will bring the speed back to 60 without your input. It was in the full story that was on “Sunday Night”.
To me, cars like this are dangerous. No one will be able to overtake a B-double etc who are just under the limit on the highway as there would not be a patch of road long enough to take the risk of spending so long on the wrong side of the road.
Not surprising, i dont disagree with what skaife says, but the government has put decades and hundreds of millions of advertising into their speed kills propaganda, to switch from that would be like calling themselves wrong.
Also, with the quality of the cars on the Australian roads, im not sure i agree with a 140kmh speed limit, that might be ok with highly trained german drivers on their brilliant expressways, but Australian roads are subpar, the drivers are even worse and the cars could even be further problematic.
The last thing i want is a 1982 Ford laser doing 140kmh in front of me.
LOLOLOLOL, that was gold haha, and yes I can vouch for the fact 82 lasers at 140 just arent cool.
Stoney!
There’s nothing biased about it at all.
If you want bias, just listen to the state government rhetoric “speed kills” that is on permanent repeat mode year after year, with not a single mention that properly built roads and properly trained drivers will save more lives than unrealistic speed limits and draconian traffic laws, which exist purely to expedite the speed camera windfall.
Also not sure why you would bother taking the time out to comment on such a non serious site as this.
Who is this in reply to Anthony?
Well done Mark Skarfe and CA.
Hopefully we can show the public the government isn’t really committed to road safety but more intent on baffling us with bullshit to make more cash.
I totally agree with Skaife’s mantra, and it was one of the most sensible stories I have seen this year. Unfortunately However there is another big difference between Aus and Germany. The Germans don’t have ‘hoon’ culture that is so big in Australia. Why? I think that the culture around V8 supercars has a lot to do with it. I grew up with Group A racing and love F1. But V8 racing with the Ford/Holden rivalry seems to facilitate this hoon culture. It doesn’t help that there is so much Alcohol advertising mixed in. Germans have DTM racing but not the ‘hoon’ culture that goes with it. This is something that would be very hard to change but if Skaife is serious then this needs to be part of the overall plan. Clean up motorsport in Australia.
They are not called “hoons” in Europe – they are just normal people that love to drive and ride their machiens the way they are suppose to be driven. Your average Porsche or Renault Sport driver would be called hoon here, while they just get along and do their thing in Europe.Doing 150kmh is no big deal there, here its a hoon offence.People do burnouts here since they are frustrated – its not surprising, with these kind of nazi laws even the most normal car lover gets frustrated.
Way to generalise, VR.
Thumbs down.
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Maybe it’s a combination of all 3, in order of priority
1) Better training
2) Safer cars
3) More appropriate speed limit
The better training combats all of those issues (as in high speed accidents, and just “normal occurring accidents”), however the safer cars combat the “normal occurring accident”. Sure a 5 star yaris vs a vt commodore won’t make much difference at 160km/h. But a t-bone at 40km/h, side airbags etc. may result in the 5 star yaris being safer than the commodore.
Andrew, you just made an amazing point everyone overlooks
A 5 star small car is not the same as a 5 star larger car, they are class dependant for their safety rating. Therefor a brand new Honda Jazz may actually be less safe then the VT Commodore (the VT was a HUGE step up on the VS in the video)
Also its accident avoiding prevention.
Heres a question i find interesitng. The Subaru WRX, a car that holds road and stops quicker than practically any other mainstream car. If everyone drove a brand new WRX sensibly, not hooned in it, how much safer would the roads be.
Andrew that is completely incorrect. A P-plater would be far safer in a five-star “buzz box” than a VT Commodore. It is exactly that mentality which has made it so difficult to introduce effective legislation to improve the safety of our roads.
Have a look at this video clip and tell me which car you would rather be in.
youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY
The problem is a VT isn’t an old banger, they are 3 star cars, VY’s 4 star cars.
Those are both appalling safety ratings, especially since they were both tested using the previous ANCAP ratings method.
Here is another video for your consideration. I can’t stress enough how much safer a new, modern car is regardless of size compared to an older Commodore.
youtube.com/watch?v=YbEa3C2vL7U
Lets say we live a normal country, where logic wins, just for a minute. Lets say Hume is turned into a 140kmh zone, trucks are baned from right-fast lane, and if you drive in good, dry conditons at anything less than 130kmh you get a $500 fine and lose 4 points.If you see people behind you, you move to the left – simple. I can tell you the system would clean up very quickly – so you wouldn’t get people driving 80 in a 100. Personaly – I have never seen a person drive less than 95 in a 110 zone at Hume – those slow poople would mix just great with the trucks(100 speed limited). System can be made to work – its not like Hume is not designed for at least 140km/h – its desinged for 180km/h by the way, and other suburban freeways are all designed for 130kmh – so kill me if I know how the law justification can be made to fine people for doing 120kmh, for example,completely safe, since roads are designed for those speeds.
Andrew M. This mindset is totally wrong. The point is a 5 star Fiesta would miss the pole that the VT commodore has hit. Why? because it is light so it is easier to control, has proper abs so that it can stop before hitting the pole, has stability control so that it does not loose control to start with, and doesn’t have the power of a VT to be doing the kinds of speeds that are likely to cause death. The answer IS safer cars.
I sold my VZ commodore (2005) and got a Renault Laguna (2002) no difference in price and dame Klms. The commodore has two from airbags, no stability or traction control. The Renault is 5 star NCAP with full front,side,curtain airbags, ESP, Traction control etc.. You can buy these second hand for under 10K. I wanted my family to be safe and the commodore just doesn’t cut it.
Hahaha that’s classic! You can have all the driver aids, 27 airbags and a 7 and a half star safety with 3 chef’s hats you want but at the end of the you can’t defeat the laws of physics. Safety doesn’t start with how your car rates, it’s how YOU rate as a driver. I’d be more worried about the driver who thinks they’re invincible because of their 5 star ANCRAP rating than the guy in the VP commodore who knows both his and his vehicles limits.
Spot on Radbloke driving is an attitude thing,good attitude,good driver bad attitude bad driver its that simple.driver education in schools may help develope a good attitude for future roadusers.Raising the speed limit is no good because of our poor roads and not enough funds to maintain them,Germany is around the size of NSW yet has 81 000 000 population so funds to build and maintain High maintenance roads would be much more attainable.As for the current scare campains,try to find someone or anyone who thought about those ads while driving and made a consience decision to drive better.I dout you’ll find anyone.Spend the money on education.
The thought’s right VR, but geez don’t European cars cost a bomb to keep on the road. I love my Saab, but the mechanic’s charges. OUCH!!
Spot on for no passengers for P Plater idea.
How many times a car full with a P driver at the wheel?
Skaife is spot on.
Around 95% of fatalities happen below posted speed limits, yet we want to concentrate resources on the 5%… what about the 95%? Yes, this means better roads, better driver training, etc… we must broaden our focus beyond the myopic speed and alcohol mantra if we want to save lives. This is hard and takes real leadership. Brumby and his government are just hopeless, they can’t plan for sufficient infrastructure and housing for a growing population let alone make meaningful change to road trauma. He is happy to be seen to be doing something, that is over governing and over regulating us and ripping more money off motorists through fines.
Nick K, I’m not being a jerk, but where did you get that statistic from? I’m interested. Would make a good case against the current ‘speed kills’ mindset.
Skaifey as minister for roads and transport!!!
If I owned a base model commodore and a HSV GTS, I would be happier for my daughter to be driving the GTS. Why? Because it has more grip, better handling and better brakes. Yes the potentioal is their for her to go faster with the engine, but it will also be harder for her to loose control because the car has better ACTIVE safety. Having good passive safety is all well and good, but its better to actually avoid the accident in the first place! Better handling, good tyres with good grip and better brakes are the answer here.
Germany has a road fatality rate lower than Australia. Why haven’t Australian authorities emulated German policies? Because high quality roads cost money, driver training costs money and a safe vehicle costs more than an old banged up commodore. We could spend the money, alter our approach to road safety and ultimately have safer roads – but this would mean that government(s) A) spend more money on road safety and B) miss out on hundreds of millions of dollars from road ‘safety’ cameras.
In south australia 38% of driver deaths are alcohol related this year to date , dont blame speed for all accidents .
We need to vary speed limits to rid us of this boredom of driving continuosly at 110k or as in vic 100k , people doze off and loose concerntration , mix it up 90k here 140k here 120k here , where roads are good , and there are good roads .
Alcohol is the biggest problem , hit them hard with bigger penalties , and stop blaming competent fast drivers
You drive too fast and people will rip it to you…
Drive too slow and they also rip into you..
Such is the narrow minded little world of sensational marketing that is used to manipulate us all.
I love Skaife for trying here but Australia will not work with the same Euro type rules and regs. Because it’s really a cultural thing that is at the root of the different. Some comments here have touched on this in relation to the V8 Supercar mentality.
You can see this European concept/idea fail in other areas of life here in Australia. It’s just too different and doesn’t work here due to many factors.
Nice sentiment but fundamentally flawed…
I guess we can all live in hope though ;)
Frankly, I think the problem here is that the country has degenerated into a pack of “forelock tuggers” completely under the thumb of an incompetent government. Let me state what should be obvious. None of us got to vote for this!! The “authorities” just did it. And it is more than just a police matter. This stuff is lifestyle altering. Longer and more congested commutes, morwe time on the road due to idiotically low limits. And the sad fact that, with the right car, even given the much lower standard roads in that day, you could get from Melbourne to Sydney faster in 1970, than you can today. Very sad.
Our all knowing pollies will never fund driver education or say that speeding doesn’t kill. They have been building up this stupid mantra for years and not a single one of them wants to admit they are wrong. Also this sort of stuff costs money, and we are told everyday that our state has none, even though state revenue from speeding fines is going to rocket to $570 million next year. the simple fact is Australia is to bureaucratic to ever be truly democratic. And because of this, the young people on our roads will keep dieing at an exponential rate.
Try $1,400 million – from speed fines. Nice little stash – its all about money, they don’t care about speed limits – they fly in a heli or have a driver drive them around while they sip champagne in the back – no wonder they don’t understand how boring it is to drive 100kmh.The other day I had a lady leaned on her door dozing of at 100, the other guy was pointing at the birds, the couple was in animated argument, other guy was fiddlign with his stereo – all at 100kmh on the freeway.People, 100 is too slow, 140kmh will keep people on their game. I’ve got no doubt that 90% of driving population would handle Hume or Eastlink at 140km/h – no doubt, and granmas doing 80 never venture to Freeways anyway.
The pollies shouldn’t have to fund driver ed. If you want to get a licence pay for the privilege and the training.
A simple example is this. Back in the 80′s F1 cars where crashing all the time. Every race had multiple accidents.
So far this season there has been hardly any crashes, and the only crashes there have been is when drivers are dualing with each other and run into each other, drivers aren’t just “loosing it” all on their own and blowing into the wall.
Is it because todays generation of F1 drivers are better then those in the 80′s? I think the linkes of Senna, Prost, Mansall etc would dissagree with that. It’s the cars, they have more grip and better brakes then the F1 cars of the 80′s, therefore its easier to drive the cars without loosing control over them.
It’s an extreem example, but the basic principal applies to road cars. It’s a lot easier to loose the rear of a VL commodore going round a roundabout in the wet compared to a brand new VE commodore.
Then you have tyres, peoples obsession with being tightwads when it comes to putting tyres on their car, go with whatever is the cheapest, forgetting that tyres are the only thing keeping your car on the road! Tyres has the ability to extend your breaking zone by meters, meters can be the difference between hitting the back of a truck at 5km/h and 25km/h which can be the difference between no injuries and being pretty damn sore!
Can’t you just use the shoulder (if big enough) as a ‘breaking’ zone when your car breaks down? Don’t some freeways also have break down zones? There is even a phone on some highways so you can call the “auto club” to come out and try to fix whatever broke. TVFPIC. ;-)
You are totally correct. The best brakes in the world mean nothing if you have cheap, dodgy tyres on your car, especially if your tyres are incorrectly inflated. You can also add worn suspension to that list of items that can increase your braking zone by a considerable margin.
Speed is not the cause of the road tolls. While raising speed limit does not decrease road tolls but it is the drivers who lack in training. The would-be drivers need to be better educated and have tougher criteria in getting driver licence. Our roads need to be upgraded too, this does effect any cars, regardless of how good the car handling is.
Couldn’t agree with Skaife more. However, I must point out that while better roads is an issue, I can see why we don’t have the best roads in the world, our country is huge and so is the cost of maintaining the roads, Europian countries are tiny compared to Australia so they can afford to have better roads.
Driver training is deffinately the biggest issue regading the road safety by far.
Our GDP is pretty high as a percentage compared to Germany(1.03 trillion versus 3.64) and population is 25% of Germany – so maybe we can have better roads, but then we’d spend less on politician super, and 100,000′s useless public servants and others that maintain the status quo.
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The Govt is never going to do this. It would involve them spending the money raised by car registration and traffic offences on building better and safer roads. For the amount of money motorists in Australia are charged our roads are disgraceful. Travel 35 mins west of Brisbane and there are irt roads everywhere.
If Govts were serious about redcing the death toll, they would improve the quality of our roads and they would make obtaining a drivers licence harder with better quality instruction. To me, driving a car is more dangerous than flying a non-commercial aircraft. More things can go wrong and happen driving than flying, yet is 10 times easier to get a drivers licence.
irt roads should read dirt roads.
They (governments) have lowered the speed limit in suburban streets to 50 even 40 kph and the road toll has increased. Increased road toll not because of speed limits but driver education and attitudes.
25% of drivers killed on roads are not wearing a seatbelt.
25% of driver killed on roads are under the influence of drugs and/or alchol.
Sure speed probably attributed to their death but maybe better education and attitudes would lower the road toll.
More than 40% of drivers killed are drunk – then those morons stack, drive way too fast for the conditions, lsoe control, swerve into trees, kill themselves and everyone says its a tragedy. You know what, as long as they wipe off themselves(and any other idiotic mates of their dumb enough to jump in a car with a drunk) the country will be better off.
I am sick to death of this backward country and the stale and uneducated morons who not only run this country, but who also support these clearly retarded views.
I personally cannot wait until the day these generations of useless politicians die out and some real change can occur.
Until then Australia is still going to be a country that no one takes seriously.
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Obviously you didn’t see the full story that explains that… :-)
After so many years of misleading campaigns by Governments and associated ‘so called’ authorities, it would be a fresh change to see a politician with the balls to stand up and say the ‘Speed Kills’ style policy is just not working. Even putting some of Skaife’s ideas into practice would be a start in the right direction. Unforunately, the people in charge don’t seem to drive enough themselves, and rely on statistics that could be seen as slightly skewed for a particular purpose. Why not look at alternative studies carried out overseas for a broader picture? Perhaps it contradicts with current policies. We wouldn’t want that now, would we?. Back Skaifey for a long journey to a better future.
Skaife has hit the bullseye . Brumby doesn’t want to agree because that would inevitably cost the state more and reduce income from speed cameras ( which don’t do much other than raise money . After going through a speed camera at the next corner you could kill someone . A letter months later ain’t gonna do much ). Aussie roads are shocking and are far more dangerous than doing 5kph over or some 17 year old spinning one wheel of a corrolla in the woolies car park.
What a great logical approach to fix our road toll issues, instead of just blaming speed in every accident that occurs. Yes speed is a factor in a lot of accidents that happen but it is not the key factor in most occasions, lack of skill, under maintained car, someone just not looking where they going and cutting other drivers off are just few of the major reasons why the road toll is so high. All teenagers should have to go through Dangerous driving courses, do theory classes on road Etiquette and rules, take classes from a driving instructor in all conditions and forced to drive 6cyc cars that are no older than 5 years
Fact: Speed cameras don’t save lives. Victorian road tolls increased this year compared to last year even the Traffic Camera boss ran out of words to defend his claim. And the number of cameras are increasing as you read this.
Fact: Motoring mindlessness and irresponsibility cause deaths on the streets more than any other. The lack of proactive driving and poor skills can make your dream of getting behind the wheel a nightmare where you may never wake up again. Conversely, excellent mental awareness keeps you concentrated on the road, and this involves driving at a speed that you can control.
Fact: Northern Territory road tolls increased when a speed limit was put in place in 2007. They have spoiled the Aussiebahn along with more human lives.
Fact: Money speaks. Wherever there’s cash, people will capitalise on it. They’re not content with hefty taxes and squeeze every hard-earned dollar they can from a motorist.
Fact: Demerit points ruin your driving confidence. You’re angry to get your licence tainted, and some others could even lose their jobs. You must have self-assurance to drive safely, and such things, along with fines, aren’t helping at all.
As a paramedic on the front line I have seen my fair share off accidents. But I got to agree with mark Skaife on this one. The current approach of trying to lower the road toll is not working…something is just not quite right with it. All I say to Mr Brumby what’s the difference between myself driving at 140km/h to an emergency and the everyday motorist? I have no special training expect for my younger day when I was a so called hoon.
This is typical of our politicians. They cannot come up with any real workable plans for themselves, yet they are not willing to listen to anyone elses plan.
The continual focus on speed, and speed alone, is killing people on the roads.
I spend a lot of time on the road for my job. The police are conspicuous in their absence. Apart from the long weekends you just do not see them anymore.
Problem is our Government wants to catch people speeding, not deter them… that’s what speed cameras do.
Car Advice… here’s a suggestion. What are the German road stats? We hear a lot about Germany and their speed limits on autobahns, but what are the stats?
How about doing a story on this?
That is definitely something we will have to look in to.
In the mean time, here are two articles by Alborz and Anthony respectively, both expressing an almost identical opinion to Skaife.
caradvice.com.au/30280/german-vs-australian-car-culture/
caradvice.com.au/60110/fast-is-safe-in-germany/
I’m not informed enough to comment on increasing the speed limit as an option, but one thing that does make complete sense to me is giving P platers greater access to newer, safer cars. Inexperience + unsafe cars = tragedy. It’s really quite simple, young drivers are a lot more likely to have an accident – I had two before I was 20 and I wasn’t even reckless. I was lucky enough to have a car with ABS and airbags as a young driver, but I know my younger sister drives a car without any ABS or airbags, everytime she tells me she’s going on a road trip somewhere I cringe.
You must be a pretty average driver , it seems your little sister is a better driver than you haha
Ha, it would appear that way. First time was my fault, second time I was rear-ended by a drunk driver. Neither had to do with speed… which makes me think, not one person I know who has been involved in a bad accident had speed as the contributing factor. It was either inattention, fatigue or bad judgment.
How do speed camera’s save lives? I can see how laser guns can but speed camera’s? No. Say someone is going 120+ in a 60 zone and they go past a speed camera, how does this speed camera deal with this potentially dangerous situation? It takes a picture of the numberplate, sends it too the mainframe and posts out the fine etc. and because of the speed may be a loss of license involved. This however happens in the future. At the time of the offence the individual is still speeding along in a built up area endangering everyone. The speed camera has done buckleys in road safety at all IMO. A laser gun meanwhile would have removed the danger immediately, but laser guns cannot raise revenue like speed cameras because they can only take one fine at a time and have too be used by police officers and not manned by civilians like our speed cameras.
Now on the issue of this blog. I could not agree more with Skaife’s comments. Some roads here in South Australia, mainly the south eastern freeway etc. could easily and safely have a 140+ speed limit on it. There are alot of roads though with the current 110 limit which should be either closed or reduced in speed due too the cracked and broken road edges and not being wide enough too allow two mini’s too safely pass each other let alone road trains. The governments approach too road safety in this country is completely revenue biased. A new road leading into Adelaide now has a fixed camera there. I would like too see the governments statistics that urged them too put a camera there, meanwhile we have a ridiculous roundabout at the ole Victoria Park racecourse that is an exercise in russian roulette and has been this way for many years yet our government has done bugger all too address this issue because there is no money too be made there. I have not paid a fine in many years because I do not speed, even though I have owned some powerful cars, but even I see how ridiculous some speed limits in this state are. The government has alot of issues that go towards improving road safety yet they cannot be bothered. Better roads, driver training, better maintained vehicles, smarter use of speed limits etc. can all improve road safety. Again though all these things cost the government money and don’t make them money. Much better too set a one speed limit approach and just plonk a speed camera there and watch the money roll in and beat their drums that they are making great progress in road safety than actually do something meaningful but drain their coffers!
I partly agree with this. As skaife said in his report, we need to train drivers better. I know that when i was learning all i was focused on was passing the test, i think i really learnt ‘how to drive’ a month or two after having my licence and driving by myself.
But increasing the speed limit doesnt seem like a good idea given that a great number of people don’t seem to be able to drive competantly at 100kmh. The only way to lift the speed limit on major roads would be to re-test every single driver to give them adequate training, not just the new drivers coming through.
But one thing is for sure, we really need to change the driving culture in Australia….
People are forgetting that P Platers SHOULD NOT be taught by their parents. Just like in Germany, you need to attend proper driver schools and they are the only people that teach you.
People who are trained driving instructors should be the only people teaching young drivers. Full Stop
Then the government should have incentives for young motorists to afford modern, safe, environmentally friendly cars, and to ditch the old commodore and old falcon. As they are complete and utter shite cars.
We need to change this perseption that “its your fist car, it needs to be cheap, as you will have an accident!”
That attitude is just stupid! young drivers should have proper training to reduce the likely hood of an accident, and they should be given the opportunitly to afford safer cars with government incentives.
Then the government needs to take a long hard look at the quality of our roads and the speed limits on them.
I am all for doing speeds higher then 100KM/H once you leave built up area’s, as it makes getting to your destination quicker, therefore less likely to get fatigue.
But look, all of this is things that SHOULD be done. Unfortunatly we have goverments who are run by people who have no idea how cars work, are are too stubborn to change.
Someone really needs to stand up and ask, we have been running these speed kills ads for ages now, and the road toll is increasing. So its not working! simple! look to other countries and improve on their ideas.
umm,Speed should not be the issue because it isn’t necessarily speed that kills,it’s people who can’t drive according to the road conditions,140kph on a two lane road on a Tuesday afternoon with torrential rain is never going to be safe even in a brand new,state of the art Mercedes,and it’s even less safe in a 1983 Falcon under the same conditions but on a dead straight stretch of freeway with little traffic at 8.30an on a warm,sunny morning it probably would be safe.
There are some shocking drivers in the area where I live,people who try and pass on a bend or on the crest of a hill,people who are in such a hurry that they have to pass even when the traffic is flowing at 110kph,I see it all the time,the probelm is the licensing system which still relies on testing whether someone can park between two cars,I mean how often do you have to do that these days with so many off street car parks,and anyway if you can’t parallel park you shouldn’t be driving anyway,it’s much more important to test how a person reacts when confronted with torrential rain and poor driving conditions than if thwy can get their Commodore between two cars when they go shopping on the last day before Christmas!
Count me as another vote for Skaifey. 100% agree with him. But don’t think his views will ever be embraced by corrupt politicians who will never give up the hundreds of millions of dollars that they pull in from speeding fines.
even though i agree with skaife, he has missed the point, its not about the road toll, its about revenue, we all know it.
putting p platers into more modern cars is one thing, but its better to have realistic drive simulators like pilots have to test in, train the driver better, reduce the amount of crashes. getting your license is so easy, and removed from real world driving. plus at a P platers price range they will be all in Hyundai getz and they really are terrible at speed. they need to be taught better
Mark Skaife should be congratulated for highlighting our blatant transport management gaps and incompetence. Speed is not and never has been the enemy: on the contrary, increasing speed alongside safety should be the main purpose of an integrated public transport systems and management. There’s something profoundly sinister about witch-hunting speed. Good, honest and decent cops and public servants didn’t sign up to perpetuate roadside radar ambushes, waste taxpayers’ money on blackmailing speed cams or brutally mass murder our youngest Citizens. Furthermore, each day, in large Australian cities, millions of hours (the equivalent of several human lives and one or more 9/11′s every year) are lost in traffic congestion: this is organized crime at its worst that should be swiftly banned from modern politics and prosecuted with the full force of the Law.
Easy licensing system –> Larger bad driver pool
Bad drivers = “Bad” behaviour on the roads
“Bad” behaviour = $$
Govt = Profit
As usual Skaife is right on the money. Who would know more about motoring a highly successful driver or a politician?
Mr Brumby has a vested interest in this matter and in my opinion puts his budgets foremost.
As a daily commuter I see the issues Mark refers to first hand. The only way to mange these situation is go all out for yourself which can endanger others. Self preservation is a strong initiative. There’s very little consideration shared on the roads.
Perhaps Mr Brumby will change his opinions if or when he is unfortunate enough to loose a loved on in the road toll.
But then again, Brumby would blame any loved one’s death on speed.
I wonder if anyone has any statistics as to how many fatalities occur on our freeways and motorways vs suburban streets. I think that there would be more deaths caused by excessive speeds on side streets than our larger multilane throughfares. The majority of the people killed on motorways and freeways are caused due to fatigue rather than speed.
The limit shouldn’t be 140 on every highway. The speed limit should change with the quality of the road and how windy it is. Long Dead straigh roads should be 140 because sitting on 100/110 is so monotonous that it’s hard to concentrate. Especially at night. If you were doing 140 your probably much more alert. That said I don’t want to imagine a mid 80s bluebird doing 140 . Nasty
Dispite Skafe’s proposal being well a researched plan that would have a major impact on our road toal, Brumby was never going to accept it as it would jepordise his revenue stream.
As of the last “Road Safety Enforcement Technology Upgrade” the Victorian government makes in excess of 500 million dollors a year from trafic enfringement revenue. Any money they spend on more cameras will pay for itself and increace their revenue furthur. Keeping on doing what they were doing is not going to significantly reduce the road toal but it’s going to make money, something thr Victorian Government’s been termanaly short on since shortly after Steve Bracks got in.
Skafe’s plan would make a big difference but it would require billions of dollars of investment and will take time to produce a significant reduction in deaths. Furthurmore to get drivers into newer safer cars they’d have to significantly reduce stamp duty on new cars, possibly even tip in some subsedies themselvs. Not to mention employ thousands of sophisticated inteligent and highly educated people, who don’t come cheap, to educate and train learner drivers.
You can see why Brumby has got stuck into Skafe ofer that tiny footnote about 140 k’s being a reasonable national speed limit (140 k’s is reasonable by the way).
Sure, financial realities must be factored into any plan (somebody’s got to pay for everything at the end of the day), and a phased implementation is reasonable to accomodate these realities. However sticking to the conventional more financially viable yet inherently flawed aproach is going to cost lives. It would appear that our premier considders them an acceptable loss. That’s all well and good for him, but not so much for the famalies and friends of the dead and injured.
“demonization of speeding engrained in the minds of Australian motorists and politicians”
George I am more cynical about politicians as the revenue comes in handy. As regards motorists have you seen the opinion polls associated with articles on this topic? The 2 I saw ranged from 73% to 75+% in favour of Skaife’s proposal. Our money continually gets spent to bs us into believing but the speed kills message is so transparent that few actually do get it engrained.
Governments will never accept Skaife’s proposal for just one simple reason – revenue. Their sole focus is on revenue and ways to raise it. Better educated drivers with better cars and better roads means less revenue in fines for the Government.
Mark Skaife is right on. Proper driver training will achieve more with the road toll than cameras.
Training facilities will create jobs.
If young drivers know how to control their cars and know what is and isn’t capable, they won’t experiment to find out that they don’t have the control that they thought. Hoon drivers will always be around,but if they have more skills to begin with, all drivers will be better off.
When Skaife can tell us something we don’t know then he should open his mouth!
We don’t live in Germany and we drive older cars on average with a tiny tax base so these factors are unlikely to change anytime soon.
It’s all about driving for the conditions and none of our roads are up to the task except for the odd couple of klms of motorway with bottlenecks at either end.
Tailgating is another issue which I think you will find causes many accidents.
If you haven’t got the patience to tolerate the current speed limits then you shouldn’t be driving.
Perhaps this mining super tax can be used to improve infrastructure such as roads otherwise there will be little to show in fifty years time.
We won’t be able to return to agriculture as a main stay at the rate China is buying our prime farming land.LOL.
Hi, Im a 20 yr old guy who got his license a year ago. Since then, i crashed 2 cars. In first case, my mom’s 2003 Astra, I braked hard during a corner while it was a little wet. The car violently oversteered, and I would have gone off the hill road if it werent for the crash barrier (i cant believe how strong these are). Second case was when I bought my own car, a ’99 Hyundai. My front left tire burst, violently sending me towards a row of parked cars. I managed to make it turn the other way, but i spun and had to brake to a stop going backwards. Left huge black lines on the road.
I just wanted to say, that nobody thought it was a good idea to teach me when I got my license (which was piss easy btw) how to control a car, or how to check a worn tire.
So i said to myself, I either learn myself or its just a matter of time till my luck runs out and i die and i got a whole life ahead of me you know? so i first read up on car control on the internet, like traction circle, load transfer and how to drive smoothly, then i went to practice on hill roads late at night (1-3AM usually, when theres no cop car patrols and absolutely nobody else on the road either) where i practiced braking hard and driving smoothly, and then i learned other stuff too like left foot braking.
So i decided to put it to the test, and went on my hyundai in a set of new sumitomo summer tires during pouring rain on that same mountain road at 2 in the morning doing 100 trough 60 recommended bends. Not a single twitch from the car, so stable and in control, a far cry from the many situations of lift off oversteer I was in half a year ago.
I cant belive how much i didnt knew just a couple of months ago and the immense risk i was in back then. i dont know what to think of this, but ill just say one thing: i failed my first drivers test……. at parallel parking. priorities pls?
Go and get yourself in to motorsport events – do track days, do advanced driving course. Having fun in the hills is ok, but you can only learn how to drive on the closed roads and tracks – and if you overstep the mark there’s always a kitty litter, not a 4ft wide gumtree.
with the government the way it is this will never happen… we need a new government…take a look at the liberal democratic party for example…they have the right idea on what the government is doin wrong but bein independent arent big enuf to do anything…