Comments on: Toyota and Subaru’s New Sports Car

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:46:03 +0000

yes maybe it is the torque that counts for a lot. but that means a hell of a lot but fair enough. dont forget that when i used torque in an argument to favour the falcon you said it wouldnt count for much.

now you are fishing for answers
power isnt the enemy for fuel consumption. you only have to have a look at the power VS efficiency in the commy to see that means nothing. a lot of the time more power can mean more efficiency.
throw some extractors on a car and you get more power and better efficiency.

yes rev range might be one of the key things too good point.
but now i look at the TRD VS XR6T and see an equal power rating at comparible revs yet TRD wont beat XR6T. that has to be torque for sure there.

ok so would you say the falcon has a much greater torque advantage and that torque counts for a bit?

By: Toyota Paul

Toyota Paul — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:57:52 +0000

Well if you want to continue, I would say the fact that the Aurion can keep up with the Falcon is evidence enough of the efficiency in terms of power from engine to wheels. Yes its lighter… but the Falcon has more then enough torque to make up for this, the Aurion produces its power + torque higher up AND if you go off your RWD camp, its RWD set up helps its traction! Yet it still does the 100 at the same time. Then in terms of fuel efficiency, power is the enemy of fuel efficiency. Yet the Aurion engine produces more power with the same if not a tiny bit less fuel consumption. Happy? Lol Im going to ASSUME not!

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:47:34 +0000

paul dont just assume.
you must agree with me to some extent that there is no real showing of that theory in practical terms

the topic came out when you said that FWD benefits from greater power to wheels and fuel efficiency.

i just got curious as to why in comparible cars it doesnt show

By: Toyota Paul

Toyota Paul — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:40:01 +0000

Mate Im sure there are other variables which provide the reason behind it… all you need to know for this argument is that FWD is more efficient, that is a fact. Anyway I think this is getting off topic.

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:30:52 +0000

paul you havent answered my question.

so what is the big winner? lets break it down

the falcon has 10kw less and another 100kgs or so more. when the falcon is tested with the 6sp box as with the aurion the falcon is marginally quicker (bugger all so lets call it the same for round figures)

so falcon has 100kgs more and 10kw less and also a larger capacity motor yet they run the same times and use the same amount of fuel. yes the falcon has more torque to help out too (but remember you say the falcon doesnt have a big torque difference) {im just having a go with that dont worry}
so i still dont see a remarkable difference. and we must use the official fuel test figures. we cant go saying “but in real world it does better” cause i know in real world the falcon does better too.
i think extra weight and larger capacity motor cancels out the .3L more consumption from the falcon and the extra weight and less power balances the extra torque

so the way i see it is ….well i dont see remarkable efficiency from a FWD aurion

dont tell me the drive train theory as i know it but i want to know why the FWD example i gave doesnt fit that theory

By: Flying High

Flying High — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:00:50 +0000

Toyota produces great looking cars – I can’t see how you would question that. With respect to FWD – having owned 3 Celicas 73, 2000 Auto and 2000 Manual versions – I can assure you in the later models being FWD was their biggest downfall – aside from the fact you had to rev the pistons virtually thru the block to get any performance whatsoever. Now a Suby driver I am happy they will have the engine right – albeit somewhat underpowered by the sepcs here – and body by Toyota is absolutely a positive. Given the fugly new Impreza WRX Suby should get body work designed by Toyota for their entire line up – now that would be an execellent match!! At any rate, Toyota going RWD? Def. a step in the right direction.

By: Toyota Paul

Toyota Paul — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:39:31 +0000

Yeah I was gonna say how stupid that comment was, I would honestly say Toyota has more experience producing performance RWDs then Holden and Ford Australia put together.

Reckless… yes the most common Celicas you will see on the road are FWD. Alborz touched on other variants, but they are nowhere near as common. As for the FWD thing, no, this car has crap all power… as a result you need the configuration which gets more of it to the wheels. There is absoultely no benefit in RWD on streets, your never going to get oversteer and have some fun unless you hit corners at 100km/h. I know this from experience with similar powered vehicles with less road holding capability!
As for this car, Im thinking there HAS to be a turbo variant (or at the very least be tuned to pump out alot more power). As I thought about this more, 108HP even in a car weighing 1 tonne is crap, I know from a friend that a car like a Suzuki Baleno has similar power at similar weight, through FWD (more power to the wheels), its a snail.

By: Reckless1

Reckless1 — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:32:55 +0000

Lighten up Jamison. It’s not your job to defend Toyota against the comments on the forum, most of which should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.

Sounds like you’ve swallowed a bit much of the corporate pie. I sold my soul to a massive International company for 15 years too – then they got too big for their own boots, and my loyalty and unpaid PR was worth jack shit.

One day you might be employed as an engineer for Ford – what will you say then?

By: Jamison

Jamison — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:47:41 +0000

Toyota knows bugger all in terms of RWD? Please do your research. All Lexus vehicles are RWD and are world reknowned, they are designed by Toyota Engineers. I am an Engineer for Toyota and I can personally tell you that the opt for FWD is partly due to it being cheaper to produce. And all of a sudden you’ve forgotten the classic pre-2000 sports car range from Toyota that, Supra, MR2-GT, Soarer, Chaser etc are all RWD vehicles. Do not forget Toyota has become the most profitable every day car manufacturer because of how they make efficient vehicles and manufacturing too. Family and small sedans like the Camry and Corolla are FWD because they produce hundreds of thousands of them around the world, and the FWD configuration allows them to save a couple of dollars here and there, which accumulates to millions a year. People who buy those cars hardly care for FWD. Sports cars and luxury coupes/sedans are a different market, where Toyota can charge a premium price and that justifies the better performance configurations and RWD systems are just one of them.

Its funny that most of the people putting down Toyota has not even looked at the big picture. Toyota doesnt just produce cars in Australia. They produce many more models, far better engineered than any of the American and Australian RWD in Ford and Holden… there is a reason why Toyota is known for reliability and quality… its not just a marketing ploy, I can probably put up various techniques and processes but I rather not since they are confidential.

By: Sexythang

Sexythang — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:38:24 +0000

while fwd would be better for fuel efficiency etc…..toyota has set out to make a successor for the AE86…effectively a cheap RWD. sub 30kaud is more likely though. sub20k is extremely hard even for the biggest motoring company in the world.

im looking forward for the supra replacement which they also stressed upon being ‘affordable’