Supercharged FPV Spy Photos + program delayed

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By Paul Maric | April 21st, 2010

More spy photos of Ford Performance Vehicle’s supercharged FPV products have emerged, amid claims from industry insiders that the project has been delayed beyond its proposed July 1st introduction.

As the July 1st Euro IV emissions deadline looms, Ford will potentially be left with a situation where it has to sell old stock until the new Euro IV compliant 5.0-litre V8 is ready to go into production.

Insiders claim FPV engineers are having a great deal of trouble with the FG’s drivetrain and coping with the extra torque produced by the new line of supercharged V8 engines.

Ford Australia Communications Manager, Sinead McAlary told CarAdvice:

We are moving forward with our plans to launch our exciting new V8 engines later this year. We’ll tell everyone more about the new V8 engines and their vehicles at the appropriate time.

Read into that as you will.

The latest spy photographs suggest wider tyres may be on the cards (bigger flared rear wheel arches can be seen in the photo below), despite earlier rumours that tyre widths would remain unchanged across the range.

The next generation of V8 Falcons is expected to remain generally unchanged with regards to styling. Insiders have suggested that alloy wheels will be shuffled around the range with the GT-P or GT-E receiving the wheels fitted to the recent 5th Anniversary FPV GT.

Ford recently announced plans for its six-cylinder range, but made specific mention of its V8 products being announced later down the track, lending credibility to the claims of production delays:

Falcon XR8 sedan and Ute models are not part of this Euro IV upgrade for the FG Falcon range. Details regarding plans for the iconic XR8 nameplate will be revealed at a later date.

This doesn’t mean a stop to V8 products after the July 1st deadline though. While Ford is unable to produce any more BOSS V8 engines following the July 1st deadline, it is able to sell stock Euro III that was produced prior to July 1st. Ford Australia Communication Manager, Sinead McAlary told CarAdvice:

As for the Euro 4 deadline – that is for vehicles produced from July 1, not sold. Any Euro 3 vehicles built before that date can still be sold afterwards.

Our inside source suggested that power figures may have to be detuned if the drivetrain continues to fail under load. What we can tell you is that the figures Ford had hoped for when it released preliminary information to the Department of Transport in December, 2009 were:

Ford Falcon XR8
- 5.0-litre Supercharged V8 (Coyote)
- 315kW @ 6500rpm
Ford Falcon GT/GT-E/GT-P
- 5.0-litre Supercharged V8 (Coyote)
- 330kW @ 6600rpm
Ford Falcon GT-H
- 5.0-litre Supercharged V8 (Coyote)
- 351kW @ 6850rpm

Finally, the induction ports seen on both sides of the front bumper bar seen on test vehicles to date indicate the fog lights will be banished and LED Daytime Running Lights (DRLs) will be used instead, according to our insider. They will be similar to those currently fitted to the HSV E2 Series.

CarAdvice will bring you more photos and information as they come to hand, so stay tuned!

Mitch

Only 20kw more over the NA engine, hope its got more torque.

Muse

Yeah the new engine will have more torque, but more importantly the blower should facilitate the delivery of said torque over a big, fat curve – that is, peak torque should be available lower in the rev range and continue up close to the limit. This + the 150kg weight saving should see significantly quicker performance.
Nobody

Yeah….Let’s use all those extra Kw’s and Torque on the city roads and get caught by a Unmarked FPV driven by men in blue….lol

Tom22

The 5.0L Coyote v8′s will be introduced in september, this is widely known, as stated by wheels in their currrent issue. Ford will build enough inventory of the current v8 to bridge the gap
Tom22

Also, the xr8 was never going to be supercharged, it will be using the na version. Were did you hear about the drivetrain failure? I for some reason doubt that.

The biggest ally of this new engine isnt the power necessarily but the weight, in naturally aspirated form the 309kw 5.0L engine that the XR8 will use is 120kg lighter than the boss v8, yes, 120kg lighter, despite making significantly more power. Imagine what this will do with the overall weight of the car.

I really hope Ford uses the opertunity to use further weight sheeding devices in the xr8, they really are looking down the nose of easily being able to cut 150kg from its weight. Add more power and torque and the SS really doesnt have a hope.

Benjie

I wouldn’t trust Wheels with anything, they have been proven wrong on many occasions before.

The XR8 will be supercharged. It’s all in the information submitted to the DOT and is publicly viewable. Wheels again is wrong on this occasion.

Radbloke

Very true. Wheels is now nothing more than a tabloid rag with cars in it. All 5.0 Coyote motors fitted to Aussie Ford & the FPV range will have a blower.

Tom22

That would make more sense, and cut down on engine complexity (because the falcon range already has too many engine choices, in 2011 that would mean turbo 4, inline 6, inline 6 turbo, v8, v8 supercharged)

Do you think Ford will axe the “Ford XR8″ and keep the v8 a FPV job only?

Tbh i dont see that being such a bad idea. Im not really sure though because ford only owns 50% of FPV, prodrive owning the rest, if they would sacrafice their profits.

They are almost becoming the new VW with their engine offerings, its quite ridiculous for such a small market.

Al Juraj

But the 2011 Mustang GT has the Coyote NA V8 with 307kw, so I believe the XR8 will share the same engine but not supercharged, which will be allocated instead to higher-end FPVs.
Shak

Ford own 49% with Prodrive owning 51%

Jazrod

I’m really hoping FPV don’t use big ridiculous LED “DRL’s” that look like Christmas-Tree lighting on the front of the vehicle! (Like HSV did…)

Astro

I agree, hate the Christmas lights on any car but it seems to be the fashion at the moment.

Omale

Yes, true, however the problem with day-time running lights isn’t in essence themselves but how they are integrated into the whole design. Compare say an any Audi with the HSV range…

That said, I believe Ford would be better off taking the angel eyes route ala BMW.

ElecEng

I agree. Especially the aftermarket ones. These lights are supposed to turn off when the main beams are on…but the slap on aftermarket don’t. Really annoys me because they are very very bright at night.
Those people that didn’t installed it properly should be fined.

gary

i relation to the DRL has anyone checked if they are legal to be on during daytime hours and night time conditions like the fuss with fog lamps being on cars they were banned in April 2009 according to vic roads and drivers are being fined now.
i remember hearing about a mercedes employee being charged with these lights on .haven’t heard any more. he apparently was going to get an engineer to come and testify to the courts about the improveemnts these type of lights provide. i also hope that these DRL’s on the ford don’t look tacked on like the hsv e2 series rather and after though and cheap looking

JEKYL & HYDE

from what i’ve heard,

drl’s to ok and prefectly legel so long as there not over a certain “candela” (brightness level)limit.my apology’s if the spelling is wrong,or the exact figures.i think the high limit is around the 130 mark,and most drl’s are about 80.the cops who are booking people for running “drl’s” are “pia’s”…

AB

Ford Please DO NOT ditch the XR8.

A naturally aspirated 5.0 XR8 would bring huge interest.
If rumours of greatly decreased weight, better fuel economy and improved performance are correct, this may well be the new hero car of the range!

I personally dont think XR8 buyers will necessarily upgrade to an FPV GS if the XR8 is ditched.

I am 29 and one of the most popular cars in my group of friends is an XR8 Supercab or an SS ute.
For Sheer lifestyle performance vehicles these 2 are unbeatable.
Brad

Surely the easier solution would be to use a different drivetrain? Import/use/build something more suited to the torque of the Coyote rather than spending so much time and effort trying to address a fault (detuning is NOT a solution). Work-arounds will only delay the onset of problems with the car.
David

And yet HSV/Walkinshaw can do a ball-tearing 7.0 litre W427 and an even more brutal, 480kW/802Nm E2 Supercar, with warranty…???

fpgsxr1000

haahaha, who in there right mind would pay $150K for a commodore anyway… I’m sure their limited number has already been pre-sold to bogans who have come into money… Where are they? I haven’t seen one around… If you’re going to spend that kind of money you’d by an R35, no a pushrod v8 dinasour… GAME OVER!!

Dave

Saw a Silver W427 the other week looked great, touggh and subtle at the same time. I would prefer to buy and Aussie classic (Currently – australia’s fastest/ most powerful productiobn car) than a cumputer controlled rice burner with an expensive parts list (did i mention ugly?).

David

Dave, you have to admit the R35 is pretty good. Great, in fact.

Valet Dabess

i live in mackay and i’ve already seen a white one and a lime green one

David

I see my original comment has been voted down. Seems the FoMoCo fans have spat the dummy. Hahaha

Luke

Does anyone else find it amusing that the likes of Porsche, Nissan, BMW, etc. all test at the lush Nurburgring while the ol’ boys at Ford Aus test in dusty paddocks? I guess you have to make the best of what you’ve got!

Family Guy

er, maybe they are being built for Aussie conditions.
adam (aka mada)

Tha falcon has been tested around the famous racing curcuit when FG was being developed…

I still think those rear wheel arches are standard, i have 4 FG XR6′s sitting front of me i can compare with!

Minnow

Your right, theyre exactly the same. It’s just the angle.

My Cars Called T-Rex

id say go home but theres no flights.
smokin’r32

When most European cars struggle to provide a comfortable ride on Australian roads I don’t think its an issue
The Realist

Perhaps the government has mandated that they test in Oz because they don’t want even more Aussie tax payer dollars wasted on this 100% American owned company.

Swagger

Ok you should start a 100% aussie car company too keep the profits here,go, what are you waiting for.

falcon

They might be tested in dusty paddocks, but australians build 2 world quality products on a shoe string budgets and they handle better then some of the eurobox cars that spend months circling aroung the green hell.

The Realist

Shoe string budgets?

Want me to quote the tax payer monies that are poured into automotive manufacturing in Oz?
Fenno

shoe string budget??? The VE cost Holden $1billion to develop…
If that is your idea of a shoestring can you spare me just a mil?

Shak

In international terms of producing a whole paltform to spin off almost 5 derivatives each with its own purpose. I would call that Shoestring.(Just for extra info the Cruze which is a global car cost 4 billion for a wagon hatch and sedan only.)

adam (aka mada)

I don’t see any extra flaring from the rear wheel arches in thease spy pics, they look standard to me…
Dave Soda

Luke, please tell me your not serious with that comment. Why would Ford ‘AUSTRALIA’ take an Australian made and designed car to Europe to trow it around the Nurberg ring when the conditions aren’t suitable to here?

I believe that the Coyote engine program is and always was due for release in September.

Some of you blokes need to get your head out of the sand and have a look around Ford are not going to come to the party with a rushed line up of cars nor are they going to let HSV or Holden have all the fun. Watch this space boys!

Swagger

They just hate Australia.
I6orNothing

Yep, well said. Ford tend to dot the i’s and cross the t’s which is a good thing in the long run. I think that reference to the drive train not coping is just a load of cr@p….particularly given the torque already being mashed through it by the F6 (565Nm with 10% overboost). That could be another benefit for bringing this s/c v8 into the mix…they can finally unleash the I6 turbo instead of keeping it at bay to make the v8 appear as the hero. It’s going to be one hell of a hard choice come upgrade time…..do you go S/C v8 or stick with a turbo that can already turn a sub 5s 0-100s pass. Certainly a test drive will be necessary, perhaps several.

Andrew

If Ford drop the XR8 that is just handing over more of the Large Car Segment to Holden, once again on a silver platter like they just did by canning the Wagon !

Radbloke

What are you talking about? Ford have already said the XR8 is staying.

Andrew

They have dropped it before when they said it was staying.
Shak

Well Ford said the Focus was on track to be produced here, and theres loads of Aussie Focus’s on the road isnt there?

Sandeep

Looking forward to these new engines!!! But they better not just do a re-shuffle of the wheels!!!!
schlong

what all these designers need to do first is get rid of the useless front parklight bulbs and replace them with LEDs,and use them as the DRLs/parklights.
http://www.caradvice.com Macs for me

What is all the carry on about DRL’s, apart from 1 or 2 cars, most look seriously like something from Supercheap. Someone previously mentioned the BMW angel eyes, for mine they have always looked the goods.

With all that weight taken out of the front, these cars will improve dramatically from that factor alone
Ben

So ford has to use a blower and a new motor to get near hsv power out put how said Stijl not as mch as the w427 lol.

Acfsambo

How big an engine did HSV use to get that power? I believe it was a 7L V8, a whole 40% bigger than the 5.0L Coyote. Also, the 5.0 get a lot better fuel economy than the 7L, so less displacement and uses less fuel to get there.
DeJaVu

The ego-built 7.0L 427kw HSV is made at a loss to HSV.
And all for around a 0.3s faster run than a $60k 315kw F6? It’s amazing how much power that HSV has, but the performance at the given numbers proves Holden’s more about satisfying number-related bragging rights rather than delivering all round performance.

Deco

And you’re wrong. It was not a loss. They didn’t sell as many as they hoped, but they sold enough to cover their costs.
David

If we’re talking all-round performance, you have to acknowledge the fact that the W427 has clocked lap times to rival BMW M cars. That’s the truth.

Sund00bie

“FPV engineers are having a great deal of trouble with the FG’s drivetrain and coping with the extra torque”

Maybe they could take something away from this. For example, Getting a Taxi, adding a big engine with lots of grunt and having poor build quality and parts = FAIL!

Costly lesson if you ask me

Tom22

The drivetrain generally refers to the gearbox and diff, which is german built.

Deco

LOL!

True, I believe the current ZF auto is rated for 600NM?? There is a version that is 650NM, but I don’t think the Falcon is currently utilising it.

Heater

Sundoobie says what? Geez…… get a life.

Sund00bie

Sund00bie says, Heater should lay of the Hill Billy heroin. Tsk tsk tsk

Wayne Kerr

This is exciting. I’d love to see the performance comparison between the XR6 turbo and XR8 Supercharged. I have a feeling the new V8 Falcons are going to get their long awaited limelight.

NOTHING beats the rumbling and whining sound of a supercharged V8. NOTHING, and that includes exotic twin turbo V12′s.
Elitist

I just heard a C63 AMG roar past today, and I’m sure that sounded more exciting that this family car with a truck engine that you would drive to Lazy Moe’s on a sunday with your fat arms wife and two tubbed out kids.

Acfsambo

The C63 uses a what, 6.2L V8 that is based back in the 70′s or 80′s, while the coyote is an entire new design.
Normality

ohhh you’re so elite, dreaming of an AMG and a chicken neck botoxed wife with two stick figure anorexic burnt out husks for kids in the back.. congratulations, you’re truly in a league of your own. lol
Underling

Wow Elitists here with his intolerable presence and a fortay for hateing anything thats not from Europe.You should sell the Punto and buy the AMG.Thats right he drives a Punto.

Shak

You people are all assuming that these engines will be great, but as the article states, they are breaking the driveline with only 307Kw. If they cant cope with that little power i cant imagine an XR8 with a blower would be any good. Let Ford fix them up first and then start getting excited. Dont jump to early conclusions and then get mad when Ford dont release the egines the way you wanted.

Deco

It’s the blown engines which are causing drivetrain problems, not the N/A engine.

Shak

oops sorry i should have said 315Kw. But i stand by my point, Ford better solve these problems because these engines are vital to reviving FPV’s V8 line.

The boss

Shak…you like many other here make stupid uneducated comments.

You wioll sadly be eating your words.

Joe

The litteral translation of “Elitist” must be “Wanker” judging by the posts that he or probably she continues to post.

I’d bet that the closest that “Elitist” could ever get to an AMG Mercedes is ripping off the badge from the bootlid or maybe as he said,listening to one go by.

I’ll stick with actually driving the wife and kids around in my Supercharged All Alloy Quad Cam 32v V8 and enjoying the engine note/supercharger whine from inside the car.

The Realist

Wow, I bet you feel proud.

Just make sure your wife and kids don’t make a mess with all the McValue meals in the car.

Underling

Realist,you got a bit of cream on your top lip from the latte and your late for your facial.

Neo

it must have alot of tourqe to break the drive train. think how meny BA-FG XR6T and F6 and Charged GT’s are putting out big numbers with no drive train issues? whats going on.
ECOnetic

must be pulling 600+ nm if they really are having trouble. Thou you think this short of problem would have come up in the design and engineering brief before they started. So late in the game i dont believe this story is true.

I have a person inside ford that says the next lot of falcons will all be all
wheel drive and turbos and they are selling them all over the world.

Do you believe me?
Trust me and my insider.

noj

Oh you too, my insider says the next Falcon will be a Taurus as well.

Shak

Yeah my insider told me the Falcon is going down to a mid sized car and its getting a turbo five. C’mon all these insiders like to stir the pot before a new relase to get people talking. Look at what happened before the release of the camaro and W427. The blogs went crazy.

fasthonda

Is the Coyote the same 5.0L V8 engine used in the current GT Mustang that produces 307kw and 529Nm?

Shak

Yes thats it without a blower.
Matt

Correct. Some people think Ford are deliberately under quoting it too, could have up to 446hp / 334kW apparently (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/25/video-inside-line-dynos-the-2011-ford-mustang-gt-5-0/)

Valet Dabess

flat torque line sounds awesome but 351 kw… idk maybe some people don’t care about fuel efficiency and just love having a huge amount of torque and power under the hood because it’s harder to control so it makes it more fun to drive. it’s like “man my supercharged fpv can beat your hsv any day” “so, i dare you to drift my supercharged hsv, effing insane”
GTHO Lives!

Most everyone is going to be gobsmacked come the release of GTHO. Mr. Barret over at FPV has continually stated, for anyone that cares to listen, that Hoey won’t be released until it can be done with ‘respect and honour’ to the ’71 original formula. It will be in 2011 and will build ‘significantly’ on the platform which will be known as GT-H, to be released in Sept ’10. GTHO will be the last true ‘hurrah’ for the Classic Aussie muscle car. Come 2014 there are plans for the dilution of what we have all come to know and love in big Falcs. The 3 short years from 2011 to 2014 will be the zenith for Ford Aus and FPV. Exciting things are also coming with F6. FPV are taking no chances whatsoever that THEY will be on top when the music stops in 4 years. The two most collectible cars in Ford Australia history to buy and put in a barn will be the 2014 stamped GTHO and F6. HSV crushing changes are at hand thanks to Barret and he’s going out with a bigger bang than anyone thought possible. About bloody time too! save your pennies, come 2014 the true collectors among you will wish you had!

noj

Yeah its the Falcon`s final Hoorah, nothing like saving their best to last. It should give the Falcon a very nice send off.
Bent 8 Brigade

Mind you don’t get wrist cramp

Lynchy

The driveline components that are being demolished are diffs and CVs,this is one area that Holden have a superior product there ZF diffs are lighter and much stronger than Fords Deco supplied units; people are also asuming that the entire range are breaking but the reality is it’s probably only the 351 kw (which is probably closer to 380 kw) version and rather than upgrading and delaying that model there just going to make the changes across the board, people need get past what the badge on these vehicles say, the reality is the power will be considerably more but Ford won’t rock the political boat by having an XR8 with 330 plus kw. Don’t expect to see the new V8 this year more likely early next year. People are correct when they they say there are plenty of after market F6s and Supercharged GTs currently getting around with as much if not more power and torque of these Coyotes and there still running standard drivelines, problem is the average punter will take the risk and 1 in a 100 might break but that’s still to many for Ford. Tyre size will remain the same, except on the potential GT-H.

As far as using old stock in the mean time, ah big problem there, Ford didn’t make a great deal of Boss engines for stock pile as they didn’t want to have a bunch of engines that were going to end up gathering dust, FPV have already finished their V8 production and as far as using said stock pile the engines have to be in cars and complianced prior to 01 Jul 10, they can’t put Euro 3 engines in to any cars after that date and Ford have been scaling back XR8 production for a while to cut down on runout sales, I think you’ll struggle to get a brand new V8 Falcon of any vintage after August.

As for the XR8 it will remain, possibly renamed XR 5.0, FPV will probably have all R & D responsibility but it will still be a Ford badged product, let’s not forget that they’ve been doing this for the engine side of the house since the 5.4s inception, now they’ll also do the appearance and suspension tune, no biggy. Lastly there will definately be no N/A version……..at this stage.

Tom22

Very true words, you are right, these gearbox’s just arnt built for above 600nm, all the hot xr6t end up with heavily rebuild strengthened gearbox’s.

Also, im sure they stand up just fine for the occassional squirt, why wouldn’t they when they rarely actually run the torque through the gearbox, but Ford’s rigerous testing and break in phase is far more brutal than the average performance shops “A OK”

the fact is, a high powered turbo varients gearbox will break, its a matter of when usually, were as Ford have to engineer the car to last 20 years.

The Oracle

According to the ZF website the 6HP auto gearbox is available in torque ratings of 450, 750 and 1000Nm. I’m sure one of them will be strong enough. For the manual, I’m not sure what box is used, but I think it is the Tremec T56, which is rated to a max of 550lbft, about 760Nm. Mind you the Tremec web site is hilarious, it is so out of date. It says the box is currently used on VT Commodores and Monaros and Aston Martin DB7, among others. Who know what the current specs are on their boxes.

I don’t know about Ford using “Deco” diffs. Never heard of them, I thought they used the “DANA” (Ex Ion, ex BTR, ex BW) made in Guildford, Sydney. The heavy duty versions use imported forged gears and housings, rather than the cast and machined teeth gears made here. So I imagine a suitable diff can be locally assembled.

Lynchy

Correct you are Oracle regarding DANA diffs, typo on my behalf, the six speed manuals in question however are now TR6060 which are stronger again than the old T56

The Oracle

No worries mate, thanks for the info. It took me a few minutes to think of the name of DANA and I’ve been through the factory dozens of times as a supplier. I had another look at the Tremec site and I still can’t find anything on the TR6060. However, Wikipedia says that it is a development of the T56 and is rated to 810Nm. You would think that would be robust enough.

Stevo the Devo

Bring back the good old 9″ diff.
Reality Check

Trouble is the ZF HP26 unit used in current FPV’s is only rated to 600nm and its not even listed on ZF’s website as its not their latest technology.

I’m pretty sure Ford / FPV got a “real deal” on a huge shipment of the earlier ZF HP26 model and havn’t used up that supply so will be reluctant to shell out for any of these, (especially the latest new 8 speed unit even though it offers fuel economy savings of up to 11% over the allready very efficient 6 speed unit):-

HP28 6 speed auto rated to 700nm
HP32 6 Speed auto rated to 1000nm
or their new 8 speed auto rated to 750nm

The hardware is there but have FPV got the resources to afford it ?
john

Somebody made a good point earlier that when the S/C V8 is released the turbo six will be allowed to be as good as it can be. Right now there is no question it is being held back too allow the V8 too be power hero even though in the real world the turbo six eats the BOSS for brekkie let alone the F6 version. Herrods take the stock turbo six G6E and get it up too 400kw without even trying. So much more potential is available. I am not a ford fan. I used too own a holden and have now upgraded too a Japanese vehicle, but even I acknowledge the ford turbo six too be the “Bees Knees” and will still rate it over the upcoming Coyote!
PS The F6 was one car I was evaluating before settling on my purchase. I just wanted more refinement rather than stonk in the end!
Byron

The only way FPV can overcome HSV is to go Supercharged. Nice plan Ford. You can be Australias most powerful supercharged car, but if HSV launched a supercharged version then we’d have no competition at all. I mean if they launched normal non-supercharged V8′s then results would be neck & neck really compared to HSV. Remember E3 is coming in September 2010 so don’t rule out HSV one bit. Plus, everyone will still flock to HSV regardless of FPV’s new engines, because E3 too will bring the much needed interior facelift that everyone complains about which stops them from buying one. Nice try Ford but maybe next time hahaha Go HSV!

Qikturbo

I’ll rule out HSV!…..why?,because GMH have never produced an engine superior to that of Ford.You have those pathetic pushrod engines that need to be BIG in cubes to have any decent kw and torque.The new 5.0L V8 from Ford will have 307kw with 529NM(redlines to 7,000rpm) compared to the 6.2L GTS with 325kw and 550 NM.Not really a big difference ..is there?
GMH’s ONLY hope to keep up with Ford,is to supercharge because they certainly can’t match Ford’s NA engines.
spvd02

Interestingly enough, a N/A version of the Coyote in the Ford Mustang accelaerates significantly quicker than the 6.2L Chevy Camaro. Logic would suggest that supercharging would achieve similar gains in both engines. You could then draw the conclusion the Coyote would still be faster, right? If HSV brought out a S/C version of their archaic 6.2L, who says that the S/C Coyote won’t be able to match it?

Lynchy

Acctually Byron HSV is working on a supercharged Clubby don’t expect it for a while, I think they’ve decided it’s more economical for them to go forced induction than to increase capacity again. If your right concerning the release of E3 then that’s a really small turn around time from E2, I think now that the FPVs are going to be delayed HSV will push their date back.

Byron

Never knew there was a supercharged HSV Clubsport in the works??? And yeh the time between E2 & E3 is a short, but i still think they will launch it a month after VF Commodore, so around october period bringing a new interior & possibly some exterior updates & some mechanical changes too. Wait & see

Shak

The VF is not being released this year. Its coming out in 2011, and i think you are right that the E3 will be released a month or so later as HSV have lready patented the names E3, and HDT. However that throws around the question that the next Commodore may ba a series II VE, as the F series HSV would sound weird.

http://wogskip@hotmail.com paul

hope they stick to the fog lamps and not those LED daytime running lights cause they look crap on the new hsv e2. its a muscle car not something on display at a jewellery shop window