Victoria Police Fuel Speed Camera Debate

By Alborz Fallah | September 17th, 2007

The Sunday Age reports Victoria Police will go all the way to the Supreme Court to prosecute speeding motorists that have been let off by the magistrates court.

Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby confirmed that police would take every single successful driver’s appeal to the Supreme Court, as long as it was not backed up by technical evidence.

In other words if you can prove to the judge, on your own and without expert evidence, that you were not speeding, Victoria police will see you in the Supreme Court. A move which will leave many motorists scared of challenging their speeding tickets.

Mr Ashby also reinstated that Speed Cameras are all about road safety and not revenue raising, despite the Victorian government making in excess of $200 million per year from Traffic Camera Office tickets alone.

Millions of motorists have now been caught speeding Australia wide, but with the rising road toll, we have to ask, if Victoria police wants expert advise to beat a speeding ticket, we want solid, independent expert advise that speed cameras save lives in Australia!

We are waiting…

MrIncredible

Are they serious?
Speed cameras are for road safety? Give me a break, Victoria Police are a joke, infact, the entire Aus police force have lost so much respect from motorists since speed cameras came about,

Wake up Australia, speed cameras do not save livs,
and kudos to you guys for having the guts to say it how it is.
http://www.caradvice.com.au Matt

The absolute hypocrisy surrounding the speed camera debate is just ludicrous. The ‘speed kills’ mentality is just a front for revenue raising. Even an accident within speed limits can, depending on the situation, still kill.

It’s high time driver training from a high school level is bought in to focus, instead of allowing Mum & Dad the entirety of the burden that is teaching a learner driver.
mistertwo

Victoria Police are taking a very arrogant stance over this. As with any area of the law you should be able to defend yourself. The Police rely on drivers just accepting the ticket rather than questioning it, such as: was the speed detection equipment cetified as accurate etc.

I find the Australian Police’s attitude to speed very draconian – such as if you are going 6km over the limit you are more likely to have an accident than if you were doing the limit. It’s all about driver training. There are more vehicles on the road in the UK, speed limits are higher, the Police are more lenient (average speed on a UK motorway is 136kph despite the speed limit being 112kph) and the UK has less accidents per head of population than Australia.

Nearly every set of traffic lights I see here has smashed glass all over it where some d*ck head went through on red. Shows how good driver training is.
http://www.caradvice.com.au Matt

Probably went through the red cos they were too busy watching the speedo
John Kirkham

I wouldn’t read much into this. It’s actually very difficult for them to lodge appeals the way the are saying – it’s a volume issue. Vic Police would be accused of clogging up the law courts.

It’s PR to scare people. Many people are having a lot of success with the Aussie Speeding Fines site & it’s .pdf.

They’re just trying to counter this stuff.
RPITUP

In effect they are ensuring that no Victorian will ever contest a speeding fine. The cost will be lower to cop the points and pay the fine than to prove your innocence. So much for “Innocent until proven guilty”
I wonder if the Victorian Police need to prove beyond resonable doubt that the speed detection equipment was set up in accordance to the manufacturers instructions before a fine can be issued?
If this was the case, I dont think we would be seeing so many erroneous speed infringements on Today Tonight.
Andrew

I found this interest comment from Ford when they were complaining about a NZ speeding ad.
——
Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the car buyer’s Dog and Lemon Guide, said the ad was inaccurate and misleading.

“Statistically, fatal speeding accidents tend to involve young working class males driving a Japanese import,” he said.

“Middle-aged men driving new Ford Falcons have comparatively few fatal accidents.”

——————–

It would be interesting to see those stats.
Grumps

As a former NSW Highway Patrol officer I can state that the majority of HWP officers (including myself) that I worked with believed that speed cameras contributed nothing to road safety and were installed based on unreliable figures to simply raise money and make the government look good.
David

do the crime do the time
http://nil VT Man

If the speed camera is there to save lives how can changeing the speed limit on the Pacific Highway when the road doesen’t alter help? Oh wait can’t let people using cruise control slip by can we!
Scott

You people don’t seem to understand that speedlimits are the law, and if you go over them you are breaking the law and (as with all criminal acts) should be fined.
Daniel

You’re correct Scott, but the argument you make cannot be extended to all acts of law. 10 years ago, 105kph in a 100 zone was not illegal. I cannot recall a time in history when the taking of a human life is not a crime, or rape, or theft or whatever the bottom-dwellers of society do for kicks/greed/lust/otherwise. The setting of speed tollerances and the creating of thresholds to establish a law are not in the spirit of what law making is about. The law is designed to protect everybody, you can’t tell me my 105kph on a 100kph freeway is protecting anybody but government coffers that increasingly rely on speed camera revenue to balance mis-managed budgets and fiscal incompetence. Speeding is defined by law as 3kph (or 5kph, or +- 10%, or whatever archaic state you live in). I argue the very system of imposing blanket limits on speed to be inherently flawed, with governments and the public in no position to be making calls on what highway speed limits should be. A system needs to be in place to ensure people who cannot safely control a vehicle are not allowed on roads. Licensing requirements should be increased and include tests on emergency control of a vehicle and road-craft. Speed limits should be increased for those capable of a higher level of vehicle control (due to the car they buy or level of assessed skill) and higher penalties are imposed on people who break these laws. I’m fed up with Australia having the most lazy, careless and dangerous drivers, and a culture of extremes where wowsers control our speed limits and lives behind the wheel, and those cowboys who don’t know any better but to fry their tyres and risk the lives of road users, instead of taking their childish games to areas suitable for their caveman-like behaviour.

There is no evidence to support speed cameras save lives, there is evidence to support driving training and better regulation on our roads of bad driving practises (not just dangerous speeding). There is evidence to support technology (such as ESP) can save unsafe drivers from themselves. We live in a motoring darkage in this country, something needs to be done.
Brett

As a lawyer, I have found a rather large gap in the law which makes it almost impossible for the police to successfully prosecute a traffic camera infringement. However, the way fines are “priced” makes it uneconomical for motorists to seek legal advice in respect of infringements. It’s just a question of how much they value their demerit points.

ohsotorque_

I would rather pay the cost of the fine to a lawyer than to give it to smug cops and inadequate politicians.

http://nill wayne

about FN time COPS / put the pressure on
http://www.caradvice.com.au Brian

What a joke this country is to speeding you have one of the lowest speedlimits in the world have roads that you can SAFELY drive faster on. The only problem and I mean the only problem is eduction there are kids driving cars V6 V8′s with no idea of speed and breaking distance all most are capeable of doing is putting rubber tread on the road with thier burnouts. Driving in the outside lane with nothing inside of them (O I forgot have to turn right in 10K so will get in that lane now). In the police in the UK we had a word called common sense not here in Australia it is all about money and a controlled society, with the police swaggering about chewing gum and trying to look good no respect for the job or uniform they wear. No not a whinging POM but driven all over the world and by far the worst poice force and drivers are here
h0t fuzz

Those vic fuzz can go shove their fat cameras right up their fat donut filled arses. All they do everyday is pull random motorists over for speeding. Last week i saw some guy get pulled over for speeding in a 40 zone rofl – there was no one infront or behind him for like 50 metres. Stupid cops should go catch some real criminals and stop abusing their powers and act like bullies.
oh btw half the cops in vic are all corrupt so that might explain why they never go after real crims
Toby

People seem fixed on the idea that kids are the only bad drivers out there. I’m commuting regularly between Melbourne and Geelong, but have lived in the UK for a few months previously. The discipline on freeways here is in comparison abysmal. People speed in the UK up to 160Kmh regularly, yet I have only really felt unsafe here, where I’m surrounded by morons who think they’re the next Fangio.
No one sticks to the left,
people follow ridiculously closely,
no one knows what undertaking is or why you SHOULDN’T do it,
people cut each other off – purely for the heck of it,
change lanes without indicating PRIOR – rather during.

I think maybe some of this is to do with the fact that our road toll is still embarrassing compared to other countries with more lax speed limits and enforcement. It’s time people demanded a more realistic plan from the government than beating the same old tattered drum of accusing speeding motorists. It’s a risk… one amongst many and taking up far too much of the public consciousness.
h0tfuzz

Vic police are a bunch of sissies who can’t catch the real dangerous crooks and only chase after innocent defenseless motorists. I wonder why John Howard took away our guns?? hmmm perhaps so we won’t shoot back at those damn cameras
Thompson

The Aussie Speeding Fines book has a lot to say about these issues.
The free chapters of the ebook can be downloaded from http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2409589_yi78l/AussieSpeedingFineseBook.pdf
It should help empower you to take some action against these money making cameras.
Ping

Speeding fines are considered revenue in the deliberations of the Commonwealth Grants Commission; which is the federal government body that is tasked with divvying-up the Goods and Services Tax and other federal grants to the states and territories.

This is a quote from an opening paragraph from one of their reports:

“The Law and Order Fees and Fines category comprised the net collections from fines and forfeitures, and from fees and charges collected by the courts, including those which were primarily revenue‑raising rather than cost‑recovery measures. It included traffic fines imposed by the police but excluded other licence fees collected by the courts which were classified to the Other Taxes category.”

Note the words “primarily revenue‑raising”…..The full document can be found at (cut and paste into browser address bar):

http://www.cgc.gov.au/state_finances_inquiries/2007_update_report2/working_papers/html/volume_4/04_u2007_law_and_order_fees_and_fines/fixer_uppers_in_new_normal_dot_heading_2

Further, the Commonwealth Grants Commission calculates revenue from fines for each jurisdiction then calculates the average for each jurisdiction and the average for all jurisdictions. Those jurisdictions that are below average on fine revenue lose the money from their Commonwealth Grants; the expectation is that those states and territories are then encouraged to increase revenue from fines.

As a resident of the NT, we’ve had an explosion in the number of traffic light and speed cameras being installed. This is no coincidence; the NT has one of the lowest fine per capita ratios and must therefore increase the amount of money it extracts from it’s citizens or lose it in Commonwealth grants.
Fraser

the only reason undertaking happens is because slow moving traffic hogs the right lanes. If I’m passing you in a left lane, YOU SHOULD BE THERE!