2007 Toyota Kluger Road Test
September 5, 2007 by Matt Brogan
2007 Toyota Kluger KX-R (2WD) Road Test
With excellent on-road manners, quiet and effortless performance, you’d be hard pressed to find a more suitable and practical family car.
CarAdvice rating: 
Recommended Retail Price: $39,990 (plus ORC)
Options available: Metallic Paint, Park Assist, Sunroof
- by Matt Brogan
It would seem there’s a running theme to my road tests lately, the ever-popular SUV. Now if only I could borrow some kids and a golden retriever I’d be all set. But seriously, how does Toyota’s all-new Kluger shape up?
Completely re-designed and re-engineered from the ground up, this is not some half-hearted attempt at a mid life face-lift. It’s bigger, smarter and more grown up, well suited to a discerning family buyer. Toyota aims the new Kluger squarely at buyers who’d have previously considered a Camry wagon.
Outside, the Kluger’s appearance is absolute. No edgy unfinished lines or horrible try-hard ruggedness – those days are gone. The new Kluger carries itself with poise and understated style; something lacking in many of its out dated rivals.
Standard 17” alloys, discreetly pumped guards, and a high shoulder line give a no nonsense stance that suits the larger dimensions of the vehicle. A large, high set grille with softer, flowing lines and rounded edges lend Kluger a striking and bold presence, without being too vehement.
Jump in the captain’s seat you get the sense that Toyota has tried hard to impress this time. The revised steering column position is spot on and allows you to feel more involved, just like you’re driving a real car, rather than some gawky behemoth. Plastics and fabric is of reasonably good quality, and appearance is durable and sensible rather than exciting.
Seating is practical, comfortable and supportive, and best of all you can buy a grade of vehicle to best suit your needs, similar to Ford’s Territory. Don’t need a seven-seater? Then buy the five. Don’t need an AWD? Buy a 2WD. It’s that simple.
Considering I had the 2WD (front-wheel) base model KX-R five-seater, the list of standard options was quite satisfactory. Electric everything, cruise control, audio controls on the wheel and a very quiet ventilation system (with rear outlet), it leaves the others playing catch up. The single disc stereo is reasonably punchy and the iPod adaptor very welcomed.
There’s even a reverse camera standard across the range, something I believe every high riding car should have fitted. I’m not saying you shouldn’t turn your head to reverse, but being able to see any little ones below window height could potentially be a lifesaver.
Moving up the range you’ll get a six disc CD player, blue tooth compatibility, leather trim, sat nav and even a DVD player, and with eight variants to choose from, there’s a package suited to every different buyer’s budget and need.
It’s as if Toyota has listened to what people want from a wagon, instead of dictating like Mussolini from the balcony. Bravo Toyota.
Driveline is everything we’ve come to expect from Toyota, strong, smooth and surprisingly driveable, no NVH or feedback here. The 3.5-litre V6 (same as Toyota Aurion) pumps out a gutsy 201kW, and with 337Nm on tap, the bulky 1,835kg wagon gets up to speed with vigour. Toyota claims eight seconds to 100 and, for once, this claim is pretty close to the mark.
Torque steer is negligible thanks to the amplitude of electrical assistance (ESP, TC, BA, HAC, DAC (AWD only) & ABS), which also add markedly to the overall safety of the vehicle. Consider also the seven airbags standard (seventh being driver’s knee airbag) and you’re talking class-leading safety.
The five speed auto box (no manual available) isn’t what I call spectacular, but is well sorted enough not to draw any complaints. Manual mode is there, which you may occasionally find use for if towing up to the 2,000kg rating offered, but generally speaking is a waste of time for most drivers in a car like this.
There were a few times when I found the car struggled for grip on hard starts but generally the drive was very good, and the in gear acceleration is incredible. Through varied driving I found a return of 12.5l/ 100km was about the average, just over the claimed 11.
Braking is very strong with excellent pedal feel and feedback. I could repeatedly get the big beast to stop as sure and smoothly as a small hatch back.
The balance of the Kluger isn’t easily upset either, even before the little light tells you the electronic aids have come to your rescue. The chassis is well sorted and carries the front drive dynamics of the vehicle without fuss, in fact through all but the hardest of driving, you wouldn’t know it’s a front wheeler.
Cornering is fluid and even mid corner bumps won’t upset its line. There’s almost no body roll to speak of and although this comes a little at the compromise of a supple ride, once there’s a few bodies and some luggage in the car, things sort themselves out nicely.
Luggage space is huge, and with extra storage in the floor (even a compartment for the cargo blind when not in use), you won’t go wanting for a place to put things. The rear seats fold flat to increase space and can be manipulated independently as required for bulky or long items when you still have bums in seats. Ski trip anyone?
Ranging from just under $40K up to $64,490 for the fully loaded Grande, I doubt too many rivals can offer the same reliability, durability and versatility for the price. It’s not the cheapest car of it’s class but when you consider the whole of life cost a Toyota offers, the value speaks for itself.
Tags: Toyota Kluger, Toyota Reviews
Major huge improvement over old and Toyota are to be congratulated as whole lot looks amazingly very nice and beefy (looks like a bigger car then what it is!!!) Dash and design theme inside is first rate and very well laid out!!! Outside look is excellent and front tad Subaru Forrester there! This vehicle will sell well if priced great!
Limp Wrist Roberto – yeah, it will – just like all other Toyota’s. And, so will the TRD Aurion… sure of it !!
The Forrester is now old hat as are all Subaru’s with such dated styling. Enough refreshing boys, how about some fresh new designs but please…Let Europe handle that department or we’ll end up with more disasters like the WRX and Tribeca.
I’m not mad on the styling of the new Kluger but I agree, its much better than Gen 1, despite the fact that it drove very well and was utterly practical. Yes I’d buy one if I wanted to spend more than an Outlander.
Its an improvement but personally Im not a huge fan of the rear, I saw one in the flesh today and initially I thought it was a Kia or Hyundai before I finally realised it was the new Kluger. It certainly has some power though with that Aurion engine in it, the driver under-took some slow arse and she flew!
SMIRKING DINGO… mate you have the collective IQ of a flea dog man. You just love the TRD as will all Toyotas you love shafting the exhaust pipe. You must be one of the drongos who voted in the minority on the survey whether you would or would not buy one.
is there not any way to ban this particular specimen that is labelled , well above ^^
Toyota have been quiet on the promotional side, if this car had the hype the Ford Territory had(eg wheels car of the year)it would be a hit. it was like everyone new about the territory before it got here.
So many standard features such as 6 airbags including curtain to the 3rd row seat, the reverse camera, cruise control, toyota haven’t mucked around in the spec levels. such a great car yet toyota dont wont the public to know.
that would be nice chaser!
And the game has moved forward…well done.
Only if the styling was a little interesting!
Pity it can’t tow any more than a Commodore, OK more than a Forestor, but not up to a Territory or other, more serious 4WD. Pity, if you would like a Toyota to tow your van or boat, it’s got to be a 4WD “truck”.
Showing it’s lineage I guess, ’cause the last model towed as much as the average 4 cyl FWD.
Yes but how many Territories do you see with a tow bar… let alone towing anything. I can tell you how many I have seen, a big fat 0. This market overall isnt for people looking for a vehicle to tow a huge boat or carvan (its rating is more then enough for small caravans and medium sized boats)… you want something for that, say hello Prado/Landcruiser.
Curiuos – that is curiously simple to answer. If you are a tower then buy a Prado, a Hilux or better still -one of those Landcruiser thingies with the V8 diesel.
I’ve currently got my racing mitts on a Kluger KX-S 2WD rig and have knocked up a couple of hundred clicks in it. Having done 30,000+km in two Territory previously I have to confess I’m mighty, mighty impressed by the new Klugger. I’d really like to try the AWD just for the comparison.
The good far outweigh the bad with the new model. It’s roomy, SERIOUSLY ROOMY actually and superbly featured. Seating functionality is great and the Rear A/C system works brilliantly!!! 5sp transmission is magic, silky smooth shifts that are barely noticeable.
Only a couple of downfalls, steering….. lifeless and way too light! It provides no feel for the road whatsover and is light to the point of being oversensitive. Radio knobs in the KX-S, nigh on impossible to use! Radio is perhaps the biggest afterthought in the whole car. Bluetooth (also part of the radio)….. can someone PLEASE tell me how it works? My phone is connected to it but it just won’t work!!!
Also, with 300km on the clock the vehicle has had several instances where the VSC light has come on and the vehicle has refused to move off the line at a set of lights. 5 instances of this within 48hrs. So don’t think you’re immune to problems just because you’re buying a Toyota!
Overall….. where do I buy one? I want one!
I have been keen on a Prado for sometime (mostly City Driving). After the Kluger came I test drove both the Prado and Kluger and there was not much difference except for higher ride position. Kluger has some Solid Power. The base model comes with some good options which you wont get on a Prado GXL. Also did anyone realise that the clearance on the kluger is 206mm compared to 205mm on Prado! Surely this will be a huge plus when off road? Any comments?
Paul, you need to get out more: Territory is becomeing the tow vehicle of choice for the grey nomad set. Australian 4WD Monthly describes the Territory as “the supreme tow vehicle”, overall bettered only by the Rovers. “Far more livable than a ‘Cruiser for everyday use”.
Shane T, the Hilux is a pathetic tow vehicle as well, lowest capacity (both towing and payload) of all of the twin cab utes. Still it was third in the 2007 Ute of the Year, behind Ford (2nd) @ Mazda(1st), because of it’s off road ability.
Rather a Mazda CX7, its around same coin as the Freddy.
STILL waiting for CA to test the *VAPOURWARE* CX7!!
Kluger is more SUV, CX7 is more sports!
Cheeers
F-0
Curious…agreed.
The comments that you should buy a landcruiser to tow are silly…how much do you have to pay for landcruiser/prado just to tow!?
The reality is territory can tow very well, it’s based on a falcon which is one of the best sedans you can buy for towing.
makes me curious to see why the kluger can’t tow a sustantial amount? it has the power? why can’t it pull more?
Well it can get great reviews but as I said, I havent seen any used for that purpose (And I drive around 500kms a week so I see a fair few)… also I frequent boat ramps! I do see alot however with mummy driving the kids to school… its primary use, as will be the use for the Kluger among all other things.
Paul, like I said you need to get OUT more. A weelky commute round the burbs ain’t gunna do it (and only 500 k’s too). Try having a look at the local caravan park, or the carpark at the trotts. Plenty of large vans and double/tripple horse floats hooked to Territory’s.
And Shane: “Prado, a Hilux or better still -one of those Landcruiser thingies”: Like I said if you want a Toyota and need to tow your only chice is a “truck”.
I am with Paul nothing beats a Cruzer to tow with . Grey nomads may get away with using mid size 4WD to tow their 18 footer but I bet a Cruzer would do it better. A cruzer will tow a fully enclosed 20 ft car trailer with a 1700 kg car in it across Australia with ease ,cause weve done it. Sat on 120 clicks really comfortable across the Nullaboor, passing triple road trains is a scary thing I wouldn’t want to be in any thing smaller. Husband and I took turns obviously driving took us 3 days from Melbourne , the only other thing that would have done a better job would be an F 250 ,but they are a Truck .
Obviously a landcruiser would tow better, the bigger you get the better it should get for towing. The point is, why can’t kluger tow as much as falcon/commodore sedan?
Not all of us who tow should be relegated spending ‘truck’ money just to tow…
I have many people asking me if falcons/commodores/territories have to bars fitted.
It’s no big deal, but it makes me wonder why you can’t…body strength may have something to do with it.
It cant tow as much as it has the same engine as the Aurion, which cant tow as much as its competitors. But its not a disgrace, for your average joe it can take anything they have to throw at it, medium to large boats for example. Anything larger as Bavarian has touched on, who cares if it can technically tow it on its very limits, you would go for a bigger vehicle like the Landcruiser. And as I also mentioned, I havent seen many with tow bars… because the market they are targeting doesnt buy them with towing large caravans in mind, they are Fords only alternative to people movers.
And tbh I think its smart by Toyota, they have looked at their market… why offer some car thats great at towing when they for the MOST PART dont need that. Instead offer an SUV with abit of zip! (The Territory weighs 200kg more with less power and only alittle more torque).
And a side note, isnt the Ford Ranger meant to be the great towing vehicle? They advertised it as that, I think their is method in this madness… if the Territory market had alot of people wanting to tow vehicles it would have made sense to use them in the advert! But these users are a minority! Although I will say on paper the Territory is better then the Ranger, only 100kg more weight but 80kw more and same torque.
im with curious i would have to say i see a lot of territories towing or at very least with a tow bar installed so they can.
missile, dont rule out the patrol as a towing vehicle it offers direct competition to the cruiser.
i think a couple of the reasons the kluger or toyotas in general cant tow as much is…
1. less torque (and yes paul it is actually quite a bit less)
2. it is FWD
curious, i also agree the hilux is a pathetic and hugely over rated tow vehicle. my mate use to tow with 2WD hilux but it was too gutless and he was worried about noises starting to come when he braked. he since upgraded to the “ducks nuts” turbo diesel 4X4 duel cab hilux for about $50K yet my Falcon ute still out tows his.
oh yeah and to add to the argument, sometimes people want a part time tower not a tow 24/7 vehicle. is it worth spending big $ on a cruiser when you might only tow one day a week or if its a caravan more than likely 2 times a year. that is where these vehicles (kluger or territory) are to become the good compromise. thats where people will look for the most comfortable car that can actually tow
Adam said” The comments that you should buy a landcruiser to tow are silly…how much do you have to pay for landcruiser/prado just to tow!?”
You don’t have to buy a New Cruzer the things go forever get a secondhand one . Territory may tow well depending on what and how far your going. A box trailer to the tip in your falcon is one thing but try towing a car trailer with it.
The level of safety for my family is high I personally would prefer a good secondhand 80 or 100 series for towing and long driving and a cheap run around for town.
True Andrew a Patrol is also a real good vehicle but as far as looks go Ill have a Cruzer thanks.
Bavarian Missile, agreed ‘Cruisers are good tow vehicles, but they are still a truck: look like one, steer like one, suck fuel like one, and give the passenger safty of one.
A Discovery is a MUCH better option! Better comfort, economy, safety, looks, dirveability and tows better, according to Aust. 4WD monthly.
You mention safety – that is one of the main reasons people are swapping their landcruisers for Territories, better active and passive safety!!
And if you are talking long distance touring (without heavy towing) there is no comparison for safety, comfort and economy – take a Falcon (over a ‘cruiser).
Ok with all this towing torque, I thought, lets look this up, Below is a link to redbook showing the different specs of the AWD variants of the Kluger v Territory:
http://www.redbookasiapacific......y=TOYO07II
SO Curious are you going to tell me a difference of 300kg braked and 50kg unbraked is that huge enough to make the Kluger useless at towing? Now the only disadvantages of the Kluger are less torque (although still plenty) and produced higher up (although 90% low down)… so its hardly that incapable of towing similar things then the territory. And then here comes the big one as you may well see from that above link, the Kluger aboves MORE features at LESS Price ACROSS the range. In fact in the base models, the Kluger is some $11,000 cheaper and in the AWD it is $10,000 cheaper. Lets not discredit the Kluger to much aye.
Oh yes and Andrew.M you show how hte Kluger is also an option, because I agree these are mostly used rarely for towing not frequently. Again another reason why the Kluger is capable enough, its not like the Territory the sought of vehicle you use to tow a Caravan around Australia, but its capable in its own right.
what im saying is the territory and kluger are an option to driving a big ball of steel on wheels. and to those who also desire the trait of good towing then surely the better towing capabilities of the territory must appear loudly when they are looking for a vehicle to suit their needs.
missile,
yep having to tow 2 tonne (like you did) is a different kettle of fish. sure the territory might do the ocassional car tow across town or to a show or the local track but as you suggested across the nullabor and quite frequently as you suggest is a different story.
but on the nullabor i know someone who used to always tow their caravan (nice van too) across the nullabor every now and then with a fairmont. he reckons it pulled it quite well.
he now has a patrol just to give it a bit more ease. but then he tells me he only does it at 90kmh!!!
oh and i personally reckon the patrol looks better. not much but just a few things i prefer on the patrol. a lot of people that are into 4 wheel driving will actually tell you that the patrol has a bit better off road capabilities too
Your right Andrew across town is a Big difference,especially when your towing a show car. We had a turbo diesel and a long draw bar on the trailer helps keep the trailer strait when towing it at high speeds. We did around 900 klms on both tanks we thought pretty good considering how fast we were going.
Last husband was a professional Abalone diver he would tow the 18 ft shark cat with a petrol cruiser no problem but the 26 ft needed the truck.
Hey Curious I am sure the discovery is a good vehicle my Dad loves them and has had a few. Safety doesn’t just come down how well the vehicle recovers from a crash but also preventing it and that’s what I meant with my statement. You ever towed something that is REAL heavy down hill? It pushes the vehicle and can jack knife real easy ,the longer wheel based vehicle you have the better. I still pick the Cruzer or a Patrol.
Even Mr Clarkson put the worlds best together a Range Rover and Cruiser he thought both pretty similar but for obvious reasons picked pedigree over the Toyota.
RE open road your probably right a Falcon may have better safety features than a Cruzer but it cant seat seat 8 and I do belive the Cruzer is equally as comfy. We travel to see our friends 600 KS away in the BAGT we have now but I still would prefer the Cruzer for long runs,except passing the GT is a little faster on that LOL.
missile,
hey did you see there is something on a current affair tomorrow about a million $ bid on a phase 111. im guessing it is about the phase 11 cause they showed one in the advert and they said it was a ford. by the sounds of it the guy doesnt know whether to sell it or not
Andrew yep saw it, I think its the one for sale in Unique cars. Dimond White XY Phase 3 had it for sale in 2 issues now. I shall be watching though.
Looks better than the previous models box with flared guards look. Old model always reminded me of that dog mobile featured in the movie dumb and dumber. High and narrow stance and disproportionately long snout.
New Kluger looks like a Hyundai Santa Fe which is a good looking vehicle.
For towing, I wouldn’t touch the Aurion or the FWD Kluger. Power or torque isn’t the problem – its the fact that FWD just doesn’t “do the job”.
I have now seen three (x3) Aurion’s on boat ramps who couldn’t get their boat up the ramp because their front wheels were just spinning. The ramp I go to is very busy, and during the peak periods the ramp and causeway is almost always wet because of the traffic.
Its actually quite funny to watch – but lots of people get pissed off because they waste alot of time.
In two of the cases – they had to re-float their boats, re-hitch their trailers on to some others vehicles to get their boats out..(embarrassing …)
For any serious towing, I would go the AWD(4WD) as a minimum.
I still dont understand why Toyota wasted time, money on two separate drive trains to produce separate FWD and AWD models. Who is going to pay $55k for a middle range Toyota 4WD ??? – might as well save a few more dollars and go for something more upmarket.
Why dont they implment an intelligent AWD system where for every-day driving the rear wheels are driven (2WD), and include either an automatic (sensors detect loss of traction) or lock feature to turn all 4 wheels.
The new Kluger looks reasonable, but I wouldn’t call it great or stunning. Have now seen a few on the road, and their not exactly that much larger than the previous model – but at least the wheel base is wider. I have not seen the new model’s interior in the flesh, but from the photo’s above – the inside “looks cheap”.
The new Kluger seems decent, but I recon Toyota has priced this new car out of most people’s budget ! – I see discounts and maybe even some re-pricing in the near future if their going to make any serious indent on Territory sales – so I’d wait.
Kluger still sounds like the noise my grand dad makes when he clears his throat in the morning.
stupid name for a car!
The new kluger certainly looks heaps better than its predecesser, but i still reckon it looks bland and boring. But then again all toyotas are bland and boring. I reckon the Santa Fe looks heaps better. Its more unique in terms of styling and it definitely looks a lot more classier than the kluger.
JamesA, I dont think you know what your talking about…
- You say the Kluger is crap becaause its only FWD, there is a AWD version
- You say they are to overpriced, the Kluger is some $11,000 cheaper in base form then the territory base vehicle, its also $10,000 cheaper in AWD form then the AWD Territory. Hardly overpriced.
Andrew.M, Im sure the towing capabalities of the Territory would appeal to the occasional tower, but as I showed I think this image that Curious portrayed of the Kluger being piss poor at towing is wrong. And he quotes all these 4WD magazines, not that I think it would make it in as a great tower, but being a new car it hasnt had a chance to be thorooghly reviewed either.
Paul, You should learn to read properly. Does the following sentence from my blog mean anything to you…
“For any serious towing, I would go the AWD(4WD) as a minimum.”
“I still dont understand why Toyota wasted time, money on two separate drive trains to produce separate FWD and AWD models. ”
In terms of price, maybe you dont know what your talking about. The Territory AWD Ghia is around $56,990 (start price) – about the equivalent AWD Kluger Grande starts at $64,490. Being a new model, I doubt Toyota dealer are going to do much discounting. With that sought of price, people would rather put a few more thousands in and buy a Lexus SUV.
Next year we also see a Diesel Territory arriving, so all I am saying is that its going to get more competitive in this segment – so I’ll be waiting.
The other thing Toyota can do is change that dumb name (Kluger) to something more suitable. I agree with most people on that. Toyota has lots of money, they should have made Hyundai an offer to buy the “Highlander” name back.
^
No you are wrong. The EQUIVALENT Kluger is $10k cheaper. Yes in terms of top model the Kluger is more then the top model of the Territory, but thats like trying to say the top model of a HSV is more then the top model of a Corolla. I already posted a link, here is another comparing the actual equivalent, territory Ghia and the top of the range Kluger (which has double the features, many of which aernt seen as even an option in the Territory):
http://www.redbookasiapacific......2=FORD07MV
Im also interested how many people can the territory hold? (This is a geunuine question, I dont know). The Kluger can take 7.
And just looking, showing how much of a rip off the Territory is something like the Ghia turbo asks $65k for literally half the features of the Kluger Grande which is $64k. On top of this its performance advantage in acceleration terms at least only amounts to a second faster to 100km/h with 3L per 100km extra fuel consumption.
And in respone to why they bothered for two different drivetrains, its called price, there is a $6k difference… not everyone needs AWD afterall so why won earth would you offer something with a feature people dont need for more $$$!?!
Paul, that’s right its called price, and why the extra price is questionable – its called Marketing.
That’s why Mazda and Ford have the Tribute/Escape which you can get for drive away at less than $38k.
This is a system that is both 2WD and 4WD (albeit in this case the 2WD system only drives the front wheels) – but its still ONE DRIVETRAIN, and thats got to be cheaper than having two seperate drive train systems, which means having two different manufacturing configurations and production runs ..etc..etc.
I doubt the extra cost of the AWD Kluger is attributable to just the drive-train – basically those paying for an AWD are subsiding the cost of TWO production runs for those who buy the 2WD version who, as you say, “dont need” AWD.
O.k, the Tribute/Escape hasn’t got 7 airbags like the Kluger or 201kW of power, but as someone said in a blog a while back which I still laugh at today – I think people will need that many a/bags in the Kluger to stop themselves getting hurt when they fall asleep behind the wheel in one!..as for the power, people who “drag” their SUVs at traffic lights or try to “show-off” their power (like you alluded to earlier) or try to treat them like a plain sedan are just idiots and need to grow up.
Lol they need that many bags becasuse they fall asleep at the wheel… I know what they meant by that, but I agree from another perspective, becasue they will be driving in luxury!!! While your territory which asks more money for way less features will keep you wide awake Im sure, if not only because you’ve got no money left over after paying $65k for the Ghia Turbo which offers a very distinct lack of features. Makes the TRD Aurion look like a bargain in terms of boosted versions of the same model, they ask the same amount extra for it yet you actually get alot more features, unlike the Ghia Turbo.
Oh and I forgot to mention, yet another plus for the Kluger… not only is is significantly cheaper then the territory with way more features, across the range, but is also consumes a whole 1L per 100km less in fuel. I think Toyota are on a good thing here, apart from the 50kg different when towing unbraked lol!
Paul, 1L/100km is irrelevant when you’re spending upwards of $40k on a car. Even if you drive 25000km/yr, its only about $300 difference a year. Depreciation alone accounts for many times that amount.
Also, it still bewilders me as to how someone can be so passionate and protective of Toyota, a company known for its bland cars, and one which hasn’t produced an interesting vehicle for many years. Good on you for defending them, but have you considered that maybe it is possible for another car company to produce a car which is better?
Ahh, the more FEATURES on price comparison arguement – a must for the ” fully certified car nerd” who needs to play with something (apart my himself) while driving.
The problem with “all these features” is that by the time you actually discover (or even use) half these – it’ll be time to change cars again. That is unless you actually spend most of your life in your car and go looking for things detailed in the manual that you didn’t know you had (and payed for).
Most of these “additional” features are about as useful as having Internet access on the front of your Fridge. Oh no, I’ve mentioned a “Whitegood” – something most Toyota’s have an uncanny resemblence to…
Paul, I am sure at party’s you bore people to death with how many features your car has and the fact you save 1 litre per 100km on fuel – good onya !
For the price of a Kluger you can get a Disco 3 driveaway.
The disco 3 is not especially pretty, but it craps all over the Kluger in every department.
jbot…
I defend the Kluger as it should be defended, you have people claiming it cant tow when its rated for only 50kg less unbraked and 300kg less braked or that its more expensive, which are totally incorrecet, so I think there is good reason to right these wrongs. Even if I wasnt a Toyota fan, I would want people who are incorrect to be corrected, afterall people reading this article and its comments might actually take them for more then they are worth and think the Kluger is a POS when in fact it is superior to the Territory is every aspect. As for fuel, it was just making a point… CHEAPER, MORE FEATURES, MORE POWER and MORE FUEL EFFICIENCY then the territory.
JamesA…
Lol mate just admit it, the Kluger isnt all that bad. You wouldnt say no to getting MORE features for LESS money, thats ridiculous even suggest that. Even if you somehow didnt use its for example DVD player or GPS (highly doubt it), at least your getting more for every dollar you spend on that vehicle. And might i mention many of its additional features are practicle, not just crap that you dont need to use like a sunroof or say, a turbo charged tank on wheels (This opens a whole new can of worms when talking about relative useless features, $10k more for a turbo on a car that has the dynamics of a brick).
Reckless…
Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have some form of mental disability. I know you have lots of anti-toyota sentiment, you’ve made lots of stupid comments in the past… but this would have to be up their with your DUMBEST.
Now admittably I dont know a great deal about Landrovers or the Discovery, but it took about 1 minute to confirm what I suspected, that you are talking more shyte.
http://www.redbookasiapacific......y=LAND07DQ
Now explain to me, how exactly does it crap all over the Kluger? The only thing right you have said is yes its the same price, but everything else…
* FEATURES : WAY LESS (Literally half the stuff listed, obviously some of Toyota stuff is crap but the Grande does have ALOT of decent features)
* POWER: WAY LESS (40kw in fact, 100km/g in 2seconds more)
* TOWING : IT IS BETTER (Although I have be doubts, they say max towing 3500kg which is hard to beleve given it has the same torque but less power then the territory and way less power then the Kluger albiet more torque, but not heaps more. I assume its torque is delivered low, but still, 3500kg!?)
* FUEL EFFICIENCY : 4L per 100kmh more, please dont tell me this means nothing as this now translates into a large amount. Also you have to consider thats combined, when it comes to city (what most people drive under), its going to blow out. And again yes it will for every car, but given the Discovery is some 300kg heavier city driving will hurt it badly
* ENGINE : Doesnt even have VVT… no doubt contributing to its signifcantly worse emmissions.
There is more as well but I couldnt be bothered as quite simply, your a goose Reckless.
paul please check your pricing before you embarass your self further.
you can get the territory “base model” for 34,990. so are you saying you can get a kluger for 11K cheaper? that would make it 23,990 for the kluger?????
your example you showed with redbook isnt comparing apples with apples.
you comared the ducks nuts (the ghia) with the “pov pac” kluger
also you cant compare the turbo ghia with anything toyota has. but not bad i suppose that you can get a hairdryer on a territory and still arrive at the same price as the kluger. also you cant compare the ghia with the TRD because the TRD doesnt offer AWD. both hairdryers and AWD are costly additions. they far out weigh the cost of an extra airbag here or there.
so will you get your facts right before calling the territory a rip off
also with towing, and james A gave a perfect example (on the boat ramp) the biggest problem with the kluger (and aurion) is its FWD. when you put weight on the back of a FWD they become a lot more unstable than a RWD because you cane use drive to control the car and they become “skatey”.
mate i wouldnt care if the territory were 2L/100k worse. i doubt many people turn to these cars in an effort to curb their fuel bill. hell a 1L/100k difference in a small car wouldnt sway my purchace either. and i suppose since the territory IS actually cheaper then im sure there is plenty of money left to more than cover that
Hey Andrew M did you get the pics I sent you ?
missile, no how was i meant to recieve them?
Via email ! You check today ? Will send again.
Andrew.M…
1. Pricing wise, thats was my bad I was looking at 2007 but which only showed a limited number of ther models instead of the full range. HOWEVER it still remains, even with the territory slightly cheaer have you seen the features it has? Jack shyte compared to the Kluger. As for comparisons, mate its simple, top of range v top of range, the Kluger absolutely blowes the territory out of the water. Even mid range in terms of features it blows it out of the water… and no doubt it will have all the typical attributes of Toyota; relaibility, refinement and quality. On top of this, its not to slow to 100 doing it in around 8seconds.
2. Lol how is it ‘not bad’ to get a Territory with a turbo and arrive at the same price as the Kluger. Have you see what featues each offer? The top of range Kluger absolutely embaresses the Territory, like not by abit but it has literally double the gizmos… I think its worse then TRD asking $10k on top of other models, abit of a joke really asking nearly $10k over the lower model for very basic additions to the territory turbo.
3. Well the Kluger comes in AWD so I dont see why youd say thats the biggest problem with the Kluger, if people need it for towing, they can outlay the extra $5k or whatever it is for the AWD. And as for the boat ramp example Im highly suspiscious (I personally havent seen one Aurion yet at the ramps or on the road towing anything let alone a boat), Ive been involved in boating abit and we have in the past used RWD and now use FWD. Tbh unless your towing the Titanic there isnt a major difference (in which case anyway you should be opting for AWD and a larger car), any weight advantage of the RWD having it all pulled to the back is negated by the fact that the tyres are 99.9% of the time on a wet surface on the waters edge while with FWD in most cases its drive wheels being up top dont have to contend with the water.
3. I think it would influence some people, not the simple fact alone but the fact that it on top of this its more powerful, it offers shyteloads more features which the territory doesnt even offer as options, it has toyotas quality and reliability, list goes on. Fuel consumption would just be one contributing factor why NOT to buy the territory.
Paul, whatever you recon (things must be quiet at the Toyota dealership this weekend mate).
Look, I dont mind the new Kluger, and believe it or I will consider buying one when I need a new car in 6 months (albeit the AWD version – which means I have to pay more ..guurrr!!!) but I recon Toyota have made a few mistakes AGAIN like:
1. FWD. If your going to make a 2WD version, then it should be RWD, not FWD. This caters for those that do want to still tow heavy loads (ie..RWD Territory) in slippery conditions and not go off-road – who in this case will be forced into buying the AWD version.
2. The AWD comes at too much at a premium. Honestly, people can tolerate maybe $2-3k, but $4.5k ?? – As I mentioned earlier, people who want AWD shouldn’t have to pay more to subsidies the “Toorak Trekkies” out there who only want FWD as they only want to “get around town”.
3. Why not bring out the Hybrid version that the yanks get ? (then again, Toyota see Australia as the “ass-end” of the world anyway …)
4. Trying to justify extra cost because of “features” is bs – and you know that. The Territory has the features PEOPLE NEED – and including more to justify a premium of $5 grand over your competitor is bs.
Also, come trade-in time, you never get one cent back on features – only a laugh/smile from the dealer evaluating your trade-in.
5. On the base model of the KLUGER, Toyota have actually WITHDRAWN FEATURES versus the equivalent CV (outgoing) version of Kluger. The best example is the Air Conditioning type and drive-line. The previous CV model was AWD AND HAD AUTO-CLIMATE CONTROL, while the NEW KLUGER base model (KX-R) only has MANUAL A/C and is 2WD/FWD, BUT IS THE SAME PRICE. Lets face it, these two “features” (in fact I wouln’t call these features these are must haves) – are close to the most important features one can get, yet their gone – nice one Toyota.
All I am saying is that Territory has blown away Kluger AND Prado/Lancruiser sales combined in the last 3 years – and the reasons are above. Toyota should have “closed the issue” on the above – but they haven’t – which means their going to pay for it again.
The outgoing model of the Kluger wasn’t that bad – and in base (CV) configuration still had “more features” than the Territory – so why did it only average 400 per month versus 1500 per month for the Territory ??
I hope your listening Toyota, but then again, a white-good is a white-good no matter what you do to it.
James – i really did have a big yawn when i read your post. Infact, i got that tired i went for a kip before replying to your post.
The comfort that Toyota has the ability to exploit that Ford doesn’t is it’s REPUTATION for engineering solid, steadfast, reliable, dependable and durable vehicles and this has enabled Toyota to outsell Ford by an absolutely arse kicking of 2 cars to 1.
Anyway. FWD, AWD or RWD – i will guarantee you that the new Kluger ‘WILL’ outsell the Territory considering that the Toyota example was only 300 units behind the Terrtiory despite the fact that is was only on sale for 2 weeks of the month against the Territory’s full 4 weeks (a whole month).
Not every vehicle appeals to everybody and no vehicle ever will but one thing for sure, i believe the new Kluger (for all of it’s strengths that for some reason did not detail but instead focussed on the worts instead by haaa… i can highlight alot of worts with the Territory if you want just to tarnish the shine) will soldier on to probably being the most successful SUV currently on sale and somehow you probably recognise this yourself.
Obviously you would buy a Territory yet i would but a Kluger. One of the single bigset issues that you did not discuss was the fact that the old Kluger was only offered in an AWD format whereas the Territory in 2WD or AWD. 50% of the Territory’s sales were 2WD ’s and Toyota aknowledege this so now it offers the same example of which ‘WILL’ appeal to more drivers then before.
And don’t you dare start will the FWD/AWD handling debate because these are SUV’s that we are discussing not sedans. People do not buy then for sport handling reasons but for the purpose they are specifically designed for. And, considering the Territory will become 3.5 v6 in due course, that torque advantage it currently enjoys wil be lost as the Ford’s V6 output is similiar to that of the Toyota’s.
And, before you even start on the fact the Territory will be optioned with a diesel as of next year, Toyota being the most wealthiest and resilient company that it is – will obviously respond in a similar manner if it sees fit to do so. ‘IF’ and i mean ‘IF’ the diesel Territory takes of then the ‘BIG T’ would most likley introduce the 3.0 D4D diesel to it’s range. Eitherway, the chances are, Ford ‘WILL NOT’ beat Toyota.
HILKO…Gee Territory is older car and Kluger is current model. Do you expect newer Kluger model to be inferior to older Territory???
That is the impression people here are trying to place on the Kluger, so his comments are justifed. I thought I heard you say you were a toyota fan Roberto, or was it just the Sportivo? I assume you are indeed a Ford man by your comments… explains why you have a go at the TRD
Class leading safety? Again another one of these Jap SUV cars where you can’t specify a cargo barrier due to curtain airbags – just about every Euro can – but hey this is all irrelevant in a crash test so Toyota, Subaru et al can still get their 5 star ratings, despite the fact that all your golf clubs will club you to death, think think, even the Astra wagon can have curtain airbags and a cargo barrier….. it gives you an indication to the dedication to safety of these brands…. marketing safety is more important than survival or minimising injury it appears, so for now I’ll stick with my Euro wagons for that reason. Has anyone else considered this in their purchasing decision?
Paul – no-one is stopping you in buying a Kluger! Go right ahead and if you’d like to buy one for me too I’ll gladly accept. Nonetheless I’m amazed as to how passionate you are about Toyota! Wow!
Hilko, touched a raw nerve it seems.
went for a kip ??… I hope it tasted good mate ! LOL
300 units behind the Territory already???
.. That’s because Toyota dealers have been registering their new Klugers vehicles for people to start test driving them, dont take me for an idiot.
Just like the Aurion does’nt outsell the Falcon or Commodore, the Kluger wont get close to the Territory.
It probably will for the first new months, but after that it settle back down to its hopefless 300-400 per month – guaranteed.
As for the FWD/AWD – I will discuss it because its VERY IMPORTANT to me and many others who drive SUVs for comfort and towing (you know..pull trailer behind car). As I mentioned above, I have seen THREE FWD Aurions stuck on boat ramps with their front wheels spinning – WHY ? – because the weight of a trailer biases the vehicles weight to the rear wheels – which means the front wheels go up – RESULT = lots of wheel spin at the front and the car going no-where.
..and lots of others laughing ….(including me).
I’m not talking about handling, I’m talking about PRACTICALITY & FUNCTIONALITY for an important application – towing, something we do alot of here in Australia.
The FORD Territory is still considered CLASS LEADING in steering and driveability, and the fact that Toyota copied Ford on the 2WD or 4WD idea AND the rear reversing camera just proves that the Japs are still best at one thing – copying others. No originality or new idea’s – just copy..copy..copy.
..so go have another kip mate. LOL.
JamesA, please do note that the Kluger 4X2 is FWD unlike the RWD Territory 4X2.
True, the Japs keep copying designs, but they definitely build worthier cars than the local makers. It’s more of a case that the pirated is better than the original. The Territory won’t even come close to the 12.5l/100km average for the Kluger. There are also transmission issues in some models of your beloved Ford, something very unlikely in a Toyota. Lastly, resale value will surely freefall in an Aussie-built car unlike the Japs.
It’s alright to be a fan of a certain make, but do not downplay other brands especially if you don’t have enough evidence.
Al Juraj, If you look at my previous posts – I haven’t down-played the Kluger, in fact I even mentioned I’ll be considering one for my next car !
As far as Transmissions are concerned, the 6-speed German sourced auto in the Territory is (again) a class leader – and I recon we will see that unit becoming standard across all the range (not just AWD) in the near future.
I read a review of the new Kluger at another website complaining that the new model already has problems with VSC. In this case the VSC light on the dash was flashing while he was attempting to drive off at a traffic-light and the vehicle going nowhere – so all cars have their known issues – the original Kluger also had a problem with their transmissions requiring flash-software upgrades because of a known “waundering” issue.
No such issue with the Territory’s 6-speed tran, and for what it worth, I recon the transmission is one of the most important components of the drive-train, so if your transmission is no good – chances are your ride wont be either.
As for resale, I believe in keeping my vehicle for around 10 years – and at that age, all cars settle around the same rough base price (for that class of vehicle). If you change every 3-4 years – I agree thats where you will get a bigger lose on the Territory.
Its interesting to see whether the one million expected car sales this year will be broken, and if so can it be sustained in the long term.
JUST FOR THE RECORD, I DONT OWN A TERRITORY – neither do I have any afilliation with Ford – just standing up for what’s recognised as a decent local car – and I recon Ford will have some further tricks up its sleeve to kurb the Kluger threat – and thats why I’ll be waiting.
James, we could sit around and become internet nerds until we get callouses on our backsides discussing who is better and who is not.
At the end of the day, all arguements are settled by the buyers so all we will do is just wait and see who sells the most shall we.
Yaris – outsells Fiesta
Corolla – outsells Focus
Camry/Aurion – outsells Falcon
Kluger – is certain to regain the mantle
Hilux – outsells Ranger
Landcruiser – Ford carn’t supply a worthy competitor.
Just for the argument, when the Aurion was released all you Holden and Ford bogons argued until you were blue in the face that the Aurion is nothing more then just a V6 Camry but how true. Considering the Falcon and Commodore have two engine types (V6 & V8) then so has the Camry/Aurion and between them they comfortably outsell the Falcon.
Besides, why is Ford discontinuing the Fairlane ??
Why is Ford ending production of the L6 – loosing that torque advantage is sure to be a kick in the guts.
Why has Ford Australia retrenched so many Australian workers in recent years ??
Why does Ford Australia keep balancing thier sheets with RED INK ??
Why hasn’t Ford Australia got a competitive export regime ??
And the best of all… the LEAKED Australian Quality Survey, JD Powers analysis of Western Australian Motorings and the very late RAC National survey all concluded the quality of Toyota vehicles to be in the top 3 with Mazda and Honda but Holden and Ford were consistantly ranked BELOW THE BENCHMARK.
These 3 surveys are just the analysis published this year alone of which has remianed unchanged compared to earlier publications.
And, how many vehicles does Toyota sell compared to Ford… mmmm – 2 to 1 plus more would be a good guess all while Toyota now outsells Ford on thier own turf.
Oooch – that would defantly had to hurt.
Like i said, we could argue this until we have callouss but i will make it easy on myself and wait for each months results.
And, your spin theory is a great La La Land story – of all the boating i have done up here in Tropical North Queensland, i have never in my 33 years of life on earth ever witnessed any FWD doing spinnies on the ramp.
And why is it that because Toyota is screwing Holden and Ford to the wall something painfully cronic you bogons find it neccessary to live in La La Land and make up sweet little fantasy stories. I guess it is the only way to feel good about your dwindling brand.
James – and i will add a little more.
Every company in the world wether growing carrots or engineering aircraft copy each others ideas. Everycar manufactuer now copies the original combustion engine or the fact everybody now copies the ‘invented wheel’.
Drive-by-wires is a copied invention from aviations Fly-by-wires and so the list could endlessly continue.
The original founder of on invention doesn’t mean they are best ot it either – Ford founded the V8 but do they make the best example… NO!
JVC invested the VHS cassete but did they make the best VHS machine… NO!
And Don’t you dare say Toyota is copying Ford either becuase incase you didn’t know – Ford America now buys Patent Toyota Hybrid technology just so they can make up some ground in the boominG hybrid race. Toyota also sells Nissan a dated elecTric engine that is mated to the 2.5 4 cyl in the Altima (America) just so Nissan could also enter the hybrid race.
The fact is James – they all copy each other. Toyota ’s KAIZEN business philosophy has proven to be the most efficient of all and now GM and Ford are adopting similar practices to inprove thier own fortunes. Infact, Rio Tinto has opted similar practices aswell.
No better way to say it Hilko! True, the only way to match the best is to copy them. What matters is not who copied whom, but how the parts sum up as a whole. Take for instance the new Lexus LS. It’s very much a 7-Series from the side, but the copycat looks way better.
Hilko , *** YAWN ***
WHO CARES ????
Camry and Aurion combined – yes, you need to do that to make things look good, but lets get real, Toyota’s white-goods (because their BORING TO DRIVE) will never outsell combined Falcon and Commodore sales.
As for technology, Hydrogen will be the future – and the Americans and Germans are well advanced on production versions of these cars. Lets not get into the technology stakes because Europe and the US are well advanced – and just because you have’nt seen it does’nt mean its not there – its the only way of stopping the Japs from stealing it.
Hybrid is only a stop-gap technology, full stop.
I would (and most others) buy a Hydrogen car over a Hybrid any day.
But dont worry, I am sure the Japs will COPY this technology too once its released.
*LOL*
I’ve got better things to do than argue with Toyota employee’s – cya idiots !
I’ve got better things to do than argue with Ford/Holden employee’s – cya idiots !
Paul,(1) you keep sprouting about the Klugers “features”, mate have you even sat in one? The cheap look & feel of the interior (yes even the Grande), the acres of plastic is not a pleasant place to be – what were they thinking, oh that’s right “the blind loyal faithful will buy it regardless, because its got this funny T badge on the front”. This car out Korean’s the Koreans – cheap quality, but with all the bells.
Paul,(2) 300kg diff in towing capacity nothing?? When most caravans are 1800-1900kg you can easily LOAD it and (legally) tow it with a Territory, you simply CAN NOT TOW IT WITH A KLUGER – FACT!!!
Where in your little red book does it say that a vehicles power/torque outputs are a measure of how much it can tow? It’s more of a matter of structural integrity and driveline stength. Remember, a Falcon can tow more than a Kluger!
**Hilko is the big bad wolf who ate Dingo/Shane T.**
“i have never in my 33 years of life on earth ever witnessed any FWD doing spinnies on the ramp” – hell the neighbour can’t even get a half full 6×4 trailer up his driveway with his V6 Camry (unless he reverses it up, effectively making it rwd).
xr6 turbo blows all shity toymoters away
toymoters blows all shity xr6 turbo away
removed
no personal insults,
first and final warning
- editor
Curiuos – like i said earlier, it really is sad indeed when Holden and Ford handbag carrying loyalists need to make up La La Stories in an effort to discredit Toyota. Unfortunately for yourself, most of the general public acknowledge a reputable brand from a not so reputable which is why Toyota outsold Holden by a painful 66 000 units last year and expected to better that with approx 85 000 units this year. And that mentions nothing of the gap between 1st and 3rd.
Feel free to explain your La La Story… my second car is a gutless but humble 2.2 ‘94 Widebody Camry (auto) and hauls a full 6×4 (my trailer) of soil, sand, woodchips etc up any driveway no worries although i am certainly not saying it is the ideal towing vehicle. Sense your neighbour has a V6, your La La Land fantasy just does not compute unless he is trying to haul your broken down Holden/Ford aswell.
Anway, i am not going to get callouses on my bum from talking to bogons so i will see you each month siting the cars sales.
Dingo/hilko,
Sorry to dissapointyou(1) but the V6 Camry just spins its front wheels and damages his nice pattern paved driveway, with nothin more than about 2-300kg of loam in a 6×4. Just ’cause you won’t admit it doesn’t make it a lala story (like you would know anyway).
Sorry to dissapointyou(2) but I ain’t no handbag toten’ loyalist, Liberty and a work car (from a pool).
In all you sales stats you liberaly chuck around, have you ever bothered to actually find out who sells the most passenger vehicles or who sell the most Aust made vehicles? Didn’t think so, the real data ain’t available to people like you. Remember individual stats don’t tell the full story, but you only cite over & over, on various blogs, the one that suits your own individual bias.
Ya’ know, sales per advertising doller, Toyota performs pretty damn poorly!
Curiuos – i know all about sales so don’t go there.
Holden sells the most locally produced vehicles locally followed by a very close month to month game of leap frog between Toyota (Camry/Aurion) and Ford (Falcon/Territory) followed by Mitsubishi.
But, locally sold cars are not maintaing local viability/profitability are they… no they are not !!
Toyota by far has the biggest/healthiest export regime followed by Holden (of course) but Ford Australia or Mitsubishi Australia have a minimal stance in this regard and it is reflected by Ford’s continuing woes in this country.
With refereance to Toyota’s expenditure, unlike Holden and Ford, that is a luxury not only Toyota enjoys but can exploit.
Last year alone Toyota outsold second place rival by a mammonth 66 000 units in such a small market like Australia and are on target of out selling Holden by even a wider gap of approx 85 – 88 000 units this year.
Now that is not just beating local rivals like Holden and Ford but literally burying them alive.
Have a look at history, the more Holden and Ford tribalists have bagged Toyota, the more powerful they became and that forward motion of Toyota’s just keeps getting stronger and stronger by the year aswith thier wealth and fortune.
Toyota’s ultimate aim is to achieve 25% of the local market and although they have concluded that won’t happen this year, consecative years ahead could just aswell prove possible considering Toyota has the financial might and muscle to exploit the market pretty much the way it see’s fit and as they are hovering around the 23% figure(23.7 last month)i believe it is defantly obtainable on thier behalf.
And remember, Toyota local operation it not the one is dire straights with nervous employees and balance books covered in red-ink…. it is Ford.
Tell me this, why would Toyota ever want to do business any other way considering they are currently the world’s most recognised, wealthiest, stable and profitable automotive outfit. They have little to learn from Holden and Ford that’s for sure… Toyota is setting the standard not the billion dollar loss making American firms.
I don’t see Toyota selling Diahatsu – do you !!
I don’t see Toyota selling Lexus – do you !!
I don’t see Toyota selling Hino – do you !!
I don’t see Toyota’s sales declining – do you !!
I don’t see Toyota reporting billion dollar losses – do you !!
NO… i didn’t think you did.
*edited* No personal insults.
Hey Hilko, When people have to resort to personal insults and name calling, their true mentality and level of intelligence comes out.
Myself, you and others are entitled to our opinions – as for mine, their taken from life experience – not by sitting infront of a screen typing away meaningless grot and filth to prove petty small points.
If you cannot stay on the subject (in this case the Kluger) and put forward real plausible idea’s and situations – then go find somewhere else to spend your time – both geographically and online – you need some serious growing up mate.
Hilko, you need to get some facts straight:
* Lexus is owned by Toyota – in fact its their Prestiage brand. So by stating “Do you see Toyota selling Lexus” – um, yes they do !
* The previous Kluger model CV, CVX,Grande – used the same chasis/platform as the Lexus RX330. I believe the new Kluger uses the Aurion/Avalon platform.
* Ford Australia has made profits for 5 out of the last 7 years. The reason they made a $43M loss in 2006 was due to redesign costs associated with the BF and redundancy’s due to efficiency improvements. There are no billion dollar losses here mate.
* Ford Australia employee’s are not nervous about their jobs – in fact they have a great outlook. Their Broadmeadows plant in Melbourne will be building the Ford Focus from 2010/2011, with the option of expanding further to build the new Ford Kuga which will likely be the replacement for the small/compact 4WD Escape- and be a direct competitor to the RAV 4.
By building the Focus locally, Ford intend to bring back what they had in 1981/82 (probably before you were born) with the Ford Laser – a “cult” following for this small car – which started the small car revolution.
Anyone with Business experience knows that companies go through cycles – and just because Ford Aus is at 11% market share today doesn’t mean they wont come back in the future. They are now sourcing their cars from Europe – like the new German sourced Modeo which is a great looking car – targetted straight at the Camry.
The Focus is also doing better and better as each month goes by, and the fact that there is a Diesel version means it will get even more popular.
I dont believe there is a Diesel Corolla ?
James – i to have motoring experiance as i was employed by Shacks Holden in Western Australia for nearly 4 years in Spare Parts so don’t assume others do not have direct motoring experiance aswell.
You told me absolutely nothng new about Lexus. It was infact established by Toyota with the first vehicle sold in 1989 if it wasn’t sold with a Toyota badge begfore hand.
The previous model Kluger and current example as with the RX330 and the Aurion are all based upon the Camry platform and yes – each dog (company) does have thier day and obviously it is Toyota’s turn to bath in the sun.
Considering thier movement forward, new projects about come to fruition and thier shear emense wealth, i do not see that ending anytime soon.
Just like supporters of a football team when they are sitting comfortable on top of the ladder, i too will brag about Toyota’s success just like Ford did and just like Holden did when they celebrated thier success so get used to it and accept that is life.
Get over it.
Jameso – there is a diesel available for the Corolla and is available in Europe but considering the Corolla is comfortably the second biggest selling car on our shores, it is crystal clear Toyota has no urgency to make it available here in Oz.
Don’t get me wrong here but many bloggers have been raving on about bringing more passenger vehicle diesel examples to Australia and those that have to date, have not been selling to well at all. I still haven’t seen a diesel Astra or a diesel Mazda6 despite the fact they are on sale.
Just like they did with introducing the 2WD Kluger, the Toyota marketing dept. will observe changes in the often shifting demand of the market and if they see a case to ulter thier fleet in any form then they will do just that.
Engine variety, resources and wealth is something they have an abundance of all that can be exploited when a case makes itself justified.
Haha, another funny blog to read… :)
Hilko, some nice comments and information… Not going to ask where you work now… ;) Nor will i say where I now work also :D
All the comments on the Kluger make me laugh… I just finished driving a Kluger Grande for the past month… and doing demonstrations on it compared directly to the ford Territory…
Sit in it… in the third row.. in both cars
Lower the third row seat, in both vehicles
Open the back hatch. on both, and look for the safety concerns, weight, ease of finding latches
Look closely at build quality of both vehicles…
Person here has mentioned a lot of specs level informaiton.. very true..
but put that aside… you want performance? 201 kw vs 190kw – 12.3l/100klms vs 11.0L/100klms… more power, less emissions, less fuel… seems straight forward to me.
and another person, yabbering on about towing an 1800kg caravan… errr, Kluger is rated to tow 2000kgs… so go tow your flipping caravan…
the pure unadvertised technology in Kluger craps on Ford again and again and again…
Active front engine mounts that cancel out vibrations
Double sealed doors
Wider opening rear doors, with a huge aperture to get into
Shorter engine bay using transverse engine layout – vs dated in-line 6 Ford.
Kluger and Ford have the SAME interior length! HOWEVER! on the outside Kluger is 7cm shorter… making it easier to park.
Vehicle stability as standard
7 airbags as standard
6 speaker mp3 cd player as standard
Active head restraints as standard
Reversing camera, as standard.
Dunno where a lot of you are grabbing your stats and figures from…
Toyota – Number one automotive producer IN THE WORLD. and not just by a whisker, they are pushing and pushing, and will increase that lead
Toyota – the ONLY automotive company selling in Australia that has sold more than 200,000 vehicles in a calender year… and they have done it for the past 4 years running!!!
Someone mentioned market share?
Toyota’s average market share – over 23.5%… Holden – 18.3%
Ford, 11.5%…
And guess what, I don’t have to make it up… look at http://www.vfacts.com.au or http://www.fcai.com.au
Commodore is still the best selling large 6 cylinder, no one is disputing that… this is about Kluger…
Toyota dominates with Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Hilux, Prado, Landcruiser. Only field not dominiating YET, is Mid SUV.. and Kluger will help them do it. ;)
In regards to vehicular knowledge, who cares… I use facts and what I KNOW to be fact, whether you believe or not, means snot to me… I have worked for two of the mentioned brands in this post and have driven just about every vehicle those companies have to offer…
Holden is a great company, I STILL want to get a V8… but Toyota when it comes to Quality, Durability and Reliability… has no comparison…
Later y’all
Dave
Boy’s please. I know morgasshk & hilko are toyota people but so what if toyota is the number 1 seller; does that mean if everyone lines up on the Westgate Bridge and jumps off you both will as well because everyone is doing it? So the kluger is shorter than the Territory; it has to be to accommodate the average toyota driver who can’t drive. And what do Holden & Ford handbag carrying loyalists have to do with it? We are all different as is evidenced by all the middle aged balding men who drive wide-bodied Camry’s and pull trailers.
Boy’s have a little common sense and except that some of us like to drive a car with a bit of ’street cred’ like a good Australian Holden or Ford – hey they look good and sound good and perform rather well.
Haha GT Man your good for a laugh, wont even glorify your comment with a reply in response to the crap you just dished up.
Fact is, morgasshk has finished this argument… its comprehensive. If your a Toyotaphobe, then build a bridge and deal with it… the Kluger much like the Corolla, does a dam good job at what it was designed for, certainly some backyard job Territory or Korean Barina is going to compare to something created by the biggest car manufacturer, for more then just one country. The R+D going into these vehicles dwarfs anything Ford Aus put into their attempts, and I use that word purposefully, attempts.
ha ha, so tell me this….
do all you toyota loyalists only drive toyotas because they are the number one seller in OZ???
WHO CARES ABOUT THE BUSINESS STRUCTURE BEHIND THE PRODUCT YOU BUY.
people also need to get their sales facts straight if they are going to carry on about them aswell
1. toyota does not outsell holden nor ford in total australian produced vehicles (someone earlier suggested they do)
2. toyota does not dominate in the following classes…
large passenger
suv
light commercial (utes)
3. ford AUS until now has only really cared about Ford AUS produced vehicles. that is changing.
the biggest upcoming threats to toyota is the focus and fiesta. at last ford is caring about more than the falcon. they are really trying to regain market share and also finally they are entering into more classes meaning toyota wont be winning a one man race anymore. im not saying ford will take over the sales crown over night or even at all but they are doing something about it
toyota is maxxed out at the moment. it is going to be a lot harder for them to climb any higher. they already enter in every category (a lot of the time more than once) so they can only keep selling what they have now
ford on the other hand can ultimately improve a hell of a lot in terms of range which evidently is one of their downfalls when it comes to sales
heres one for you toyota nuts
how many more vehicle variants does toyota need to produce in order to hold double the market share than ford??
ill give you a hint it is more than double the variants
I think it is a nice car… however i did go look at one today… in real life it looked exactly like the hyundai santa fe LOL… and the driver seat position doesnt go very far back… and guess what the man told me about on the road price for grande… 72 GRANDE… lol I CAN BUY A PRADO FOR THAT MUCH :|
paul,
the biggest thing that lets aurions and camrys down in the towing department is driveline and vehicle dynamics.
all the torque does is means it is less effort to actually pull what ever it is.
when they tow rate a car it is more so based on how safely it can tow it.
did you know the falcon I6 has more power and torque than a landcruiser and a patrol??
well i bet you wonder how a landcruiser can be rated to a little bit more than the falcon and the patrol can tow over 3T!!!!
easy…. its pure body mass makes it stable under load.
what does this mean…. the camry and aurion due to MAINLY them being FWD are a lot less stable under load that is one reason why people say RWD falcon is a better tower and the other is the ease at which the I6 pulls it.
put the falcon motor in the aurion or kluger and they wouldnt be able to increase the tow rating mainly because of them being FWDs
Since there are so many industry employees on this thread. Can you Toyota boys tell me if it is true that there are only 2 child anchors in the new Kluger? I need three. I have a few family friends that have Territories that have three anchors but if I can’t do this in a Kluger then I have no choice than to go for a Territory.
Also I read this from another site. Can someone suggest a way to get a kluger to accomodate 3 anchored child seats?
Mike
I have 3 young kids. Althought not law yet, we have our children in anchored car seats. The Kluger CANNOT accomodate 3 anchor points due to it’s second row seat configuration. The law is changing regarding the age that kids must be in car seats and the Kluger will not be an option for families with 3 young children. This is a huge oversight by Toyota and to my mind doesn’t make this a great family car at all! I bet your Toyota sales person won’t point out that fact to unsuspecting buyers.
Dave/morgasshk,
You need more than 2000kg tow rating to legally tow a LOADED 1800 – 1900 kg caravan. Kluger just CAN NOT DO IT!!
Paul, “morgasshk finished this argument”??? A few carefully selected facts and opinions by a Toyota marketing man – I prefer to rely on my own experiences, rather than believe advertising crap like that.
The acres of hard ugly plastic in the Kluger is a put off before you even get in. Then you peer out over a rediculously high bonnet line, that resembles a Mack truck, through a windscreen that is too narrow. Try putting the sun visor down, you can’t see further than 15-20 m down the road, whilst the bonnet line hides anything within 5 m of the front. Very UNLIVABLE vehicle. The safety of my family is far too important!
^
The safety of your family is far more important… yet you want a Territory which TOP OF RANGE doesnt have a drivers knee airbag OR 1st row side airbags… BOTH seen in the BASE MODEL Kluger. Are your serious or what buddy?
Paul,
there 2 forms of safety in cars.
1. preventive measures which means it is easier to see out of, sticks to the road and handles better, ABS etc and generally means there is less chance of having a crash.
2. cures.
these measures are for when it is too late. such as airbags, intrusion beams etc etc
now isnt prevention better than cure??
yeah you can throw all the airbags you want in a car but i have never heard of someone dying because the car doesnt have knee airbags.
and besides all that, you are surely paying for that in the extra price that the kluger asks.
oh yeah and how is an airbag meant to prevent your child going through the windscreen because there isnt adequate restraints as Family man pointed out.
if i got the choice (and im sure even yourself) i betya if the airbags were pointed out to be a $5K optional extra bugger all people would take them. the only airbags that i would ever demand is front ones as that is where the fatal accidents come from (mostly)
in summing up is a few extra airbags worth getting excited about when there are concerns with yes the territory has less airbags (but it still has some) yet you would prob be more likely to crash the kluger due to poor visibility and that no child restraints thing doesnt exactlly sound good so id reckon as far as safety goes the territory and kluger would balance out anyway, so what are you getting turned on about?
Paul,
I have had the misfortune to have been involved in a couple of biggies (accidents), fortunately for insurance, none my fault. Neither vehicle had airbags, but I survived because of good basic design applied to the structrual integrity of the passengr area and effective crumple zones. Unfortunately, airbags are too often used (particularly by toyota and some korean brands) as a marketing tool and coverup for poor basic design. (eg Barina has most airbags in class, yet has very poor crash ratings). Don’t be fooled that lots of airbags makes a car safer, it just doesn’t work that way unless you are comparing upper and lower spec models within a range of the same car. In many cases all lots of airbags really do is add to insurance and repair costs!
Anyone got an honest insurance quote comparison? – No BS please.
^
The point is, given the opportunity, you want airbags… and given that the $39k Kluger offers it while the $64k Territory Ghia doesnt, I would be voting for the Kluger, which would ALSO fair well in a crash in terms of design. But yes I dont doubt that manufacturers use it as a tool, the classic example is the Barina with their adverts… an absolute disgrace to be selling that kind of vehicle.
Andrew.M…
Correct, the Kluger has stability, traction and all the other gizzmo’s… fact is, all Klugers have a comprehensive range of airbags, none of the Territorys do. And your remarks in regards to knee airbags, very true, most often then not it wouldnt be life threatening, but what does happen in the leg area is they get amputated because there is absolutely no protection for your lower body parts. Somehow I wouldnt want to become a cripple when you have the Kluger, base model, has such features like Knee airbags which aernt even seen in Luxury cars like BMWs (And again we will go on about design, but as I previously said… you want the best preventive features, with the best preventatitve features coupled with the safety net of airbags).
Last part should read…
And again we will go on about design, but as I previously said… you want the best preventive features, with the best DESIGN coupled with the safety net of airbags).
mate stop comparing a bottom of the range $39K kluger to a top of the range $64K territory just to make the kluger sound good. you should compare the bottom $34K territory to the bottom $39K kluger.
or the top of the range $56K territory to the top of the range $64K kluger
ok so if you get everything in the “pov” model kluger (as you suggest) then what do you get extra in the top of the range?
and really the offers knee airbags and the territory doesnt but who cares. ill keep my $8K in the bank if that is the case.
i know the kluger has stability and other gizmos. the territory has them too aswell as better visibility and handling so to me it evens out.
i agree a bit with curious on the design thing. he is right. some manufacturers design the crumple areas as to deflect away from the pasangers.
e.g. some makers design the motor to drop so that legs etc dont become trapped.
quite a few years ago my uncle had a head on at 100k’s (someone came over into his lane) it was in an old XD falcon. all of his 5 occupants survived, those in the other car both died (needless to say a couple of then had pretty bad injuries)
that was a bit off the track but how do you know that ford doesnt design better crumple areas to negate the need/cost of airbags? wouldnt that be smarter?
as curious said they are also used as a marketing tool
and if toyota need them to obtain a respectable safety rating then thats what they will do. ford still gains a respectable rating with out them, so once again who cares
1. I will continue to compare bottom of range to top of range, becaue Im highlighting the point from it… how can a significantly cheaper and bottom of the range vehicle have features that a top of range costing $16k more doesnt have? Honestly take your Ford glasses off for a second and think about it, as a consumer, not anything else…. it is a rort.
2. In terms of design, yes, well I would say there is more chance the Kluger is better designed that the Territory. Forgetting this what about the side airbags then? There really isnt a crumple zone there, sure the structure can help but considering there is a couple of mills of metre between you and another car, Id want all the airbags on the side that you can get!
Oh and out of interest the previous Kluger and the current Territory both scored 4 star safety raings, they dont test side impact because due to their size they just give them full marks for it rather then waste another car. Id think having side airbags would be a benefit, regardless, the new Kluger with no doubt improved design should score better then the territory (old one was 5 points less out of 37).
Paul, so why don’t you compare a $13000 Barina to the Kluger, similar number of airbags, much less money!!!
Ever stopped to consider that the main reason that Kluger has soooo many airbags (apart from marketing) is that the bloody thing NEEDS them to be reasonably crash worthy?
Why the heck would you say “there is more chance the Kluger is better designed that the Territory”?? Because it is a Toyota? Grow up! I’ll stake my life on Australian engineering over cut-price US anyday. We see it in the defence industry all the time, and believe me the US defense industry has a sh@t load more money and resources than the Aus defence industry, yet we consistantly produce better.
And the side impact pole test not done because of their size – BS. A tree doesn’t know how big the car is. In Aus. the side impact tests are not done mainly because the companies don’t supply the car, at their cost, when they have already done the tests, usually multiple times, themselves.
paul,
if the base kluger has it all then isnt toyota creating the rort by asking a whopping $25K more for the grande?
mate as far as i can see if ford chooses not to supply the extra airbags as standard then isnt it fair game as long as their vehicle is cheaper? (and it is)
get your toyota hat off
ps are you even considering buying a kluger? if not why do you get your knickers soo wound up about features.
open your eyes,
toyotas arent the best value and best built cars getting around. im not saying they are the worst but gee you really know how to overrate a car
hilko i think that u are a bit of a tosser becuase toymoters dont have no real sports cars that could keep up with holden or ford, now i personally hate holdens but i would rather drive a dunney door than drive a shithouse toyota but i h8 v8s thats y i want a sports car with a turbo and thats y i drive fords not a litle juice box so y dont u actually drive a real car not some litle juice box that costs about the same as a whole car that has a turbo and a orsm sound system so there
lol the top of the range territory has a turbo the kluger dosnt so i think that the ford has a faster SUV and a SUV with the better sound system and hay the KIA sorento would run rings around the klugar so there u dumb person so eat that
the commedor isnt a 6 cylinder its a v6 heap of junk
i bogan?
I have seen a couple of these new Klugers on the road now, and their actually not that much larger than the RAV4. In fact, I mis-took a RAV4 as a Kluger today – the side profile is very similiar – so either its a visual design effect OR they are just similiar.
Maybe here’s why:
Kluger Overall Length = 4785mm
RAV 4 Overall Length = 4600mm
Kluger Overall Width = 1910mm
RAV 4 Overall Width = 1855mm (Cruiser)
Kluger Overall Height= 1760mm
RAV 4 Overall Height = 1730mm (Cruiser)
The width and height are virtually the same (visually you cant notice these differences), however the RAV 4 is only 185mm shorter than the Kluger.
I believe Toyota have a V6 version of the RAV4 due out in next couple of months, it’ll be interesting to see how much Toyota canabilise their own market between the RAV4 and Kluger – especially if they price the V6 version of the RAV4 near the base Kluger.
Oh I forgot, the Klugers got 7 airbags and the spare tyre hidden.
Curious…
Firstly, no this is a case of less airbags for more money, not ‘nearly the same’, its LESS for $16k MORE. Next, it has nothing to do with growing up in terms of saing Kluger would be better designed, you have an interntational car vs an Ausralian car. We are all making assumptions here because most have not driven it nor know about its design, but a car which would have had enough R+D to dwarf the territories and has huge sales at stake, would no doubt produce a better design. Thats common sense. And your reference to defence industry, although I agree we have a very capable and technologically advanced army, most of it comes from overseas… and the U.S are the leaders in design in that department, dont know how you could suggest they aernt! Lastly side impact, hey ok I agree it has nothing to do with side impact… so if they did consider it then the Kluger would easily beat the Territory if its so close when not taking into consideration the Klugers airbags!
Andrew.M…
No its not a rort, because UNLIKE the territory it offers ALOT of extra features from base model, its features list including those mentioned by another poster which aernt even mentioned dwarf the territories, as you would expected it costs more, but no there is no rort. As for fair game, yes I agree 100% on the model for $34k or so, but unfortuantely at $56k the same problem are their, crap all features when compared to the competition. If I wanted to be critcal I could say Toyota are doing a service to Australias, only offering the max airbags, not less… to keep its customer safe, while Ford will offer any crap even if it compromises safety to get a sale. In terms of Toyota hat, Im sure many people here dont intend to buy one… so why you getting your knickers tied up? Im defending a decent car from attacks which started by OTHERS. As for best value, Id say they are… obviously they come with a higher price tag these days but they also come with toyota quality and reliability. Meanwhile the Territory Ghia comes with a premium price tag for what…. a Ford badge? That is what we label a rort.
thebigT…
You say no Toyota can keep up with your ford or holden… well the TRD Aurion is about equal to the XR6T to 100 and prity sure equal in the quarter mile. So maybe do abit more research before coming across as a complete bogan. As for your turbo crap, yes and they are asking $65k for it, with a quarter of the features of the Kluger…meanwhile it only does the 100 1second quicker, so you pay essentially $25k more than a bottom of range Kluger which does the 100 in 8.3seconds to get a Turbo Territory cos its fast, yet only does 100 in 7.3seconds? That sounds logical. MInd you the top of range territory doesnt even have that many featurse over the bottom of range Kluger, they really are a rort.
Paul,
Dissecting you comments:
1. Less airbags for more $ – obviously the Toyota needs them to attain crashworthyness. Insurance costs alone would be argument to avoid them.
2. Enormous $ for R&D doesn’t necessarily equate to better design solutions – the people do. Throwing extra dollars won’t always give you a better result. THAT is common sence (if you actually know anything about R&D engineering).
3. Oh, your comments are only assumptions, YOU haven’t driven a Kluger (or Territory). Have you even sat in one??. Do us all a favour, get away from the PC, go and do some first hand research, look carefully at critical areas of the design, drive the cars, and come back and make some INFORMED comment, instead of sprouting Toyota marketing hype BS.
4. The defence example was first hand experience, many many of the ADF’s technologically advanced capabilities are developed here, at a fraction of the cost compared to the US. Heck, much of it is EXported TO the US.
5. You can not make the claim that a Kluger would easily beat a Territory in a side impact collision – you have no knowledge (or it appears, understanding) of the sound engineering principles that apply.
As I said, when you grow up…… and I don’t necessarily mean age, I mean maturity.
Paul, you float some interesting concepts, however people tend to be good at separating the “must haves” versus the “nice to haves”.
I recently read an article on another web site “blamming” lower Ford Focus sales in August 07 on the fact that additional safety features added to the recently upgraded Focus was pushing the price of the car too high, and that people would rather “keep the money in their pockets” than dish out more.
I tend to agree with this view – and it’s been proven more often.
Anyway, have a look at the article which is called “Safety Doesn’t Sell (Sept 2007)” and can be found at: http://editorial.carsales.com......02787.aspx
The majority of people will not pay more for extra features – especially those features that people perceive are “nice to haves”. As the article says, peple would rather “grab the money and run” – as I, and probably most other people would too.
When your average family has a home morgage, council rates, water rates, electricity bills, phone bills, gas bills, house insurance, car insurance, health insurance, car rego, fuel/petrol bills, school fees, tax (income & GST), daily/weekly grocery/shopping bills..etc..etc – believe me – family’s would rather keep the $5-6 grand in their pockets rather than get in-car blue-tooth phone connectvity, 7 airbags, a rear centre fold-down seat, rear A/C, and 1-2 litre saving (per 100km) on fuel bills.
- Lets face it, not eveyone’s on $100k+ per year.
Dissecting yours…
1. No, its crashworthiness as I already stated, in tests without side impact… is 27 vs 33 out of I think its 36 or so, both 4 stars, now that was a significantly older model Kluger vs 2006 Territory. That will change in favour of the KLuger without testing side impact (and its airbags side airbags… knee airbag will help), let alone considering them.
2. Let me put it simple. If I was betting my lifes fortune, it would be on the large company pouring large dollars into an international car. Its a probabililty thing, this is common sense… its like on a different level a corner store trying to compete with Maccas, size always wins!
3. I dont have to drive the car… I can read reviews and listen to what people say. And fyi I have sat in one, so I can comment in that regard. Besides, your logic would render this site useless… because most comments here for example on cars with $100k+ price tags havent driven them or been in them. I have a right to state my INFORMED decision, so deal with it, if you cant handle me proving your BS about the Kluger wrong (like the towing) then build and bridge and move on.
4. Examples? I dont have any defence exp and I will trust you on it… but from what I see; Tanks, Armoured personal carriers, all planes, boats, weapons… I honestly can not think of any in our military that are Australian. I remember there was one rifle developed here that the yanks showed interest in, thats about it.
5. Yes I can… 2 v 1 airbags. Ive already gone over the structural crap, international car v Aussie car… I would put my chips on the car which has had R+D poured into it over the Ford which aernt exactly known for their safety. We are all assuming remmeber, its logical to assume more money, better product.
As I said, Im yet to see a decent argument out of you… I assume you like listening to the sound of your own voice. I was willing to end this after an intelligent poster prity much finished the argument, but you want to continue. I do feel abit of pity, Im beating a dead horse here.
Paul,
Repeating you BS over and over doesn’t make it any more less BS. Your corner deli argument proves mine exactly, I can go to the corner deli, get better product, better service for less money!
The towing issue?? Hang on I am correct, did you miss something? The Kluger can not legally tow an 1800-1900 kg caravan when loaded.
OK…… so you look at Defence and you see “planes, boats, weapons”. I can tell you all have significant local input, both design and manufacture – your lack of knowledge and understanding exceeds even your blind faith in Toyota.
My recommendation to you my friend is to examine things in life more closely and stop believing so much advertising drivel – you are a marketers dream.
Your espoused pity is missplaced, try looking in a mirror
GOODBYE.
I assume bullsh*t in your world means the truth… the Kluger can towe just as much as the territory, the Kluger offers better value, the Kluger offers more features, the Kluger offers more safety, the kluger offers better quality… list goes on.
As for defence, no, give me some examples Im willing to be corrected? Army boots… clothing lol? The major equipment, the things that actually fight the war… aernt Aussie and in many cases are yank.
Paul, to really understand if you like a car, and to make sure it feel’s right for you, you really must test drive it mate. There’s no substitute for getting in and driving one …
In regards to Defence, the Aus Fed Government will never let heavy industrial manufacturers like Holden, Ford to go down the gugler..and do you know why ??
…Because these manufacturers and their production lines can be quickly converted to developing and building defence related harware like tanks, trucks..etc…etc. Ford in Australia was building planes and trucks during WW2, and only went back to civilian manufacture once the war was over.
The same applies to the US, they will never let their local heavy manufacturers go down, then again they are so large that a few plant closures would never go missed.
This is “way off the subject” so enough on this ….
I dont deny driving it is the be all and end all… but most here are armchair commenters. I think its fair more understandable to be an armchair defender (which you can to an extend going off things like its huge features list) then an armchair critique… having a go at things like its ability to tow when no-one let alone some posters here have tested the new engine under such conditions or having a go at its side impact ability when its based on assumptions when the fact is it has more airbags for less money!
Paul
1. i thought towing was over. get this it is the FWD fact that lets the kluger down in this department (and toyotas in general). the FWD set up is less stable under load…SIMPLE
ultimate towing vehicle would be a falcon motor in a patrol.
a patrol can only tow more than a falcon due to its bulk and stability under load because the falcon motor has torque and power over the patrol (and landcruiser). im saying patrol because it is rated at like 1 ton more i think
2. James A great point that is exactlly a point i tried to get through once. (about people not taking extras or seeing the need to pay for them)
3. the top of the range kluger and equivalent territory has a price difference of $8K in favour of the territory so whats the great deal?? you get what you pay for. so if the territory doesnt need them then dont put them in and we will pass the savings on to the consumer….RIGHT??
4. for a guy that lives life by searching the internet and gains knowledge from it i find it quite funny that you havent found this safety article….
http://www.news.com.au/heralds.....gs2007.pdf
even funnier is that you say fords arent known for their safety yet these results put fords at the top in most and easily above toyotas as a whole
it also proves that toyotas DO need extra airbags in order to gain the safety ratings of ford
i think i even found a ‘88 mod ford that was rated safer than an ‘05 mod toyota
what a silly comment from you….. and you say you are well researched?
extra airbags is just marketing hype from toyota
dear paul
if you think that the new superchared aurion will keep up with the xr6t then you got rocks in your head because as of next year the xr6t will be 260kw and the f6 typhoon will be 300kw so i think that the supercharged bucket of shit toymoter will be no match with a car that will run mid 4.5-5 sec 0 to 100km so answer me that bitch
Deadset, that Paul is an absolute dropkick as all he does is Toyota this Toyota that Toyota is the best – talk about one sided. Mate get real with your armchair Toyota crap. A FWD is quicker then RWD being TRD Aurion and Ford XR6T…yeah right you idiot and like last guy said the chasm widens soon when next model out. This deadbeat with the wierd job states that me being a builder (still having major issues classifying builder to a carpenter you idiot) makes $30,000 per annum, obviously so far out of touch with reality as too obssessed with Toyota and University. Paul do karate mate, I do bulk training for discipline, you need to get it as self centred toooooooooooooooooo much.
Paul, last comment:
Kluger 2000kg braked towing capacity
Territory 2300kg braked towing capacity
Both manufacturers official (and legal) maximun rated braked towing. Most modern luxury caravans are in the 1800-1900kg range. When loaded this will top 2000kg, and CAN NOT BE TOWED WITH A KLUGER.
Defence: Paul Aus builds entire ships, complete weapons, and many many many “systems” – but I don’t expect you to understand that. The US uses equipment designed and built in Australia, ………. systems, ….. systems, heck they even use some of our dehydrated ration packs, for remote patrols. Australia is a develpoment partner in the new …. .
Make no mistake, Australia is home to some of the absolute pinnacle of defence research and development.
Sorry, I can not go into further detail without compromise, and edited the above, cause I feel it inappropriate for a forum like this.
hey paul where did you go? i hope the fact that you have gotten in over your head on topics you dont know as much as you think you do about hasnt forced you to run away.
CURIOUS – how many LUXURY caravans do you actually see being towed by SUV’s ??
Me – barely none at all.
LUXURY caravans as you stated are predominately hauled by heavier and more capable vehicles like Landcruisers, Prado’s, Patrols etc and Ford & Holden HAVE GOT NOTHING to compare with these powerful, rugged and luxurious haulers.
The comfort that Toyota enjoys that Holden and Ford does not is that they have a variety of SUV’s/Off-Road vehicles hence the capability of thier range can be stretched much further.
EG – if a RAV is unable, opt for a Kluger or Hilux.
If a Kluger or Hilux is unable, opt for a Prado.
If the Prado is stressed (unlikely), opt for a Landcruiser.
People like yourself like to harp on about towing capabilities but incase you have not noticed, Toyota is the company that has the ulimate hauling package NOT HOLDEN OR FORD.
Agreed!
ANDREW M – Get real will ‘ya as i am about to give you a reality knock on the head.
The ulimate towing vehicle will not be a Falcon engine in the Patrol. Besides, that is just crap because there is no version even available so get back to reality.
The ULTIMATE hauling vehicle would be a Turbo/Intercooled Diesel Landcruiser or the 4.7 V8 petrol version. Better still, the new 4.5 Direct Injected, Turbo/Intercooled V8 diesel 70 series.
After stating that, i will go better yet again.
The new 200 series Cruiser will be on sale from November and it will come with an all new 5.0 V8 Petrol or supposedly an uprated 650NM 4.5 V8 Diesel donk that is currently found in the ‘70 series.
As you can see, it is Toyota that possesses the ULTIMATE towing vehicle not Holden or Ford so get with it.
IM BACK
Curious Im aware of some of the things Aus makes, I believe there was that catamaran troop carrier built here. But some on, the U.S builds alot designs more when it comes to defence!
QUOTE = dear paul
if you think that the new superchared aurion will keep up with the xr6t then you got rocks in your head because as of next year the xr6t will be 260kw and the f6 typhoon will be 300kw so i think that the supercharged bucket of shit toymoter will be no match with a car that will run mid 4.5-5 sec 0 to 100km so answer me that bitch
Lol I will talk about facts here, it can beat the current XR6T. When the new one is out, or how about a concession, when its power figures are finally released… I will say yes the XR6T can smash it. But I will tell you what it will always be match in fact exceed in terms of, quality, refinement and reliability.
And Andrew.M, my point has always been to show the Kluger can towe… sure it cant hawl a caravan, either can a territory with confidence… but its hardly incapable.
Curious – Paul is obviously like me and have had an absolute gut full of Holden and Ford fanatics raving crap about thier cars.
Just observe the recent bullsh*t about the much over hyped VE. They invest a so called 1 billion dollars then rant utter non-sense how it is capable of challenging the world’s very best (what sort of a joke is that). Then there was the performance hype yet the Aurion kills it while we also had to endure such rants about how much a better car it will be in a crash yet NCAP didn’t rate the vehicle very highly at all.
Then the Epica was announced so all the Holden fools jumped on the wagon and said that the days are numbered for the Camry, how the L6 would be such a superior engine then poxy 4 cyls and so the blabba continued. So… what happened !!
What you must learn to accept Curious is that many individuals like Paul and myself have had a an absolute gut full of bullsh*t marketing from companies like Holden and then all the Holden freaks start on with thier ridiculous rants.
Simply put, people like yourself hate the fact that Toyota is giving Holden/Ford and thier often fanatics a big doss of REALITY MEDICINE and it is proving awful to swallow.
This country had to endure generatons of Holden and Ford people sprooking utter crap but gee wiz – when times are tough the fits and rants really prove their sour sportsmanship.
Accept it – the new Kluger is a far superior SUV then the Territory in many ways and it is sure to outsell the Territory. Somehow, people like yourself acknowledge this but hate the thought that Toyota is just about to open up yet another gut buster on Holden and Ford.
Boo Hoo – weep, weep.
Hey Kevin I have to come to Andrews defence here, he admits that for out of town towing yes you need a bigger vehicle Patrol or Cruiser .He suggests only the ultimate package would be a falcon motor in a Patrol in his opinion.
Andrew I think is comparing only a Klugger to a Territory not against a Cruiser.
You will find Andrew a fair and honest contender on this site.
I agree fully though, after having a Cruiser I wouldn’t have ANYTHING else at the moment to tow my pride and joy even if the Patrol can do the same job,I love the look of Cruisers more! The new one as usual is a timeless look that will be around for yet another 8 years I am sure.
Bavarian – i have expressed my opinion on the subject has much as Andrew has enjoyed expressing his own.
My comment on the ultimate hauler is as fair and just as his own wether other you accept it or not.
I have also come to Pauls defence on the matter as the typical Holden/Ford fanatic can often stray with unfounded and often short sighted views.
Andrew is incorrect with his assumption on Toyota safety. Toyota vehicles are been regarded as very competitive were saftey is of concern. Toyota employs just as much and sometimes more safety features within thier vehicles as any other leading outfit not to mention the fact that the Toyota Safety-T-Cell is a globally recognised and respected barrier.
Because of Toyota’s Global Outstanding Assessment (GOA) programme, thier advancement in safety has been thoughly recognised with commendable results.
Infact, Toyota has one of the safest fleet in Australia and most certainly does not offer no 2 star vehicle.
Once again – many comments were passed on how superior occupant protection would be offered by the new VE Commodore but the recent NCAP evaluations proved those assumptions not only to be incorrect but unfounded.
As far as i am concerned, no company is more over hyped in this country then Holden. I personally have nothing against Ford.
Hey Kevin sorry I have to go at the moment my kids are wanting family time with me Ill get back to you shortly.
Andrew – that link was very lame at the least.
I found an example that a ‘98 Toyota offered better protection then a ‘05 Ford or the fact that an ‘86 Toyota offered the same protection as a ‘94 Ford.
That graph offers little to no solid evidance at all as it can be exploited as you and i have have just done so easily.
And for someone taken aim at Paul for spending alot of time on the net, it appears you are doing a damn fine surfing job yourself. Maybe you should adhere to your own advice and get out to the real world for once.
But, i guess that is good the thing about the net – you can be who ever or what ever you want.
That’s fine because everybody here is already in bed(10.49 mytime)and i must go myself. I will be back sometime tomorrow for a wee visit.
Cheers.
See you then its only 9.00 ish here. I think Andrews in QLD plus he starts early .I am sure he shall get back to you tomorrow too Kevin,have a good night!
Hey Kevin I guess we 3 can agree that Ford is the better choice in the H & F battle then! Even if you and Andrew don’t see eye to eye on the saftey issues of both vehicles,I guess its opinions and passions that drive us to these sites anyway in the end. Lets all agree to disagree on this and move on to another subject or post tomorrow! I think its all been said now anyway.
paul i think that u are wron becuase the current xr6 turbo has 245kw and push out 480 nm of torque i think u got the stats wrong u fob
Bavarian – i haven’t agreed on anything. If that is your conclusion then please yourself but i that is not mine.
As far as i am concerned, the New Kluger sets new benchmarks in the meduim SUV market and no doubt the sales will reflect this as earlier as when the stats are released for this month.
Ok that’s fine ,you had said previous you had nothing against Ford so I took it that it was preferable over Holden for you.
Re the Klugger…….that’s between you and Andrew you are each entitled to your opinions ,I really don’t care as I personally think med SUV in any model BMW included are a waist of time! But that’s just my opinion on that subject!
I am just trying to smooth the waters so we can all move on to another post and another opinion,it seems we all end up going around in circles after a while.
I did read the Wheels version of the TRD just now ,I must say for only 50-70 to be made a month from the factory they will be good you would think! Mostly hand built I take it!
Bavarian – my apologise as i misunderstood your comment. I only just worked out what you mean’t by ‘H & F’ so yes you are correct.
I have never disliked Fords and i would purchase one everysingle time over a Holden simply becuase i would never buy a product from GM or any of it’s affiliates.
That said, i would buy a Toyota, Mazda (33.4% Ford), Honda or Subaru before a Ford but haa, that is just me preferance.
No problem Kevin .
Kevin: “how many LUXURY caravans do you actually see being towed by SUV’s?”
Hundreds! How long since you loked at the caravan market, almost anything newer than a few years is luxury, and the Territory is becoming a popular choice as a tow vehicle. Better alround vehicle ….didn’t we do this already? Anyway, a Discovery is a bettet tow vehicle than a Cruiser, according to the experts.
Also, Kevin nice to see you back, but why the name change again – credibility a bit soggy?
—————————-
Paul, “catamaran troop carrier”???? You really have no idea do you? It’s like trying to explain quantum physics to the yr1 class. Who invented the black box flight recorder (and what colour is it)?
Please do some research, try a .gov.au site your TOTAL lack of knowledge and understanding is justmind boggling – I did not think it possible that someone could be sooo niave.
Hahha I know the black box…mate Im getting to the point where Im just going to list every single ship, plane and other weapondry that the U.S have made. But in retrospect why bother, in the FWD argument thats fair enough, but this argument is just f*cking stupid… the U.S make way more. Period. Continue on blabbering on, I will only continue talking about cars.
kevin,
firstly settle down and think about what im trying to say and also what im replying to
with the car safety point i was making was in direct reply to this from Paul…
QUOTE…
“Ford which aernt exactly known for their safety.”
i used this article to display how wrong his comment was. i point out the fact that ford leads 5 classes for safety yet toyota leads none.
so what is wrong with me correcting a misinformed statement from paul??
mate im over towing personally but the fact that i tow about a tonne behind me 6 days a week is why i like to think i know how easily my falcon pulls it.
also what is your real world towing experience? im guessing you have never towed with a hilux otherwise you would realise how overrated the hilux actually is. my falcon ute (on gas) easily out tows my mates 4X4 TDI hilux. and thats not from opinion of doing it in one and then jumping in the other, it is sitting side by side (with the same load on) at the lights and taking off or going up a hill when he is tailing me.
also just quickly have you forgotten the F truck range? you said no ford vehicle can out tow a landcruiser? the F Truck is exactlly what people go for when a landcruiser cant handle it. for example thats what you see goose neck set ups on. you know horse floats and stuff.
i like to think i only exibhit fair comments on here and thanks missile for realising that
kevin you say you are sick of people stuck in the holden/ford way bagging toyota, well i tell you i am sick and tired of you toyota guys taring ford with the same brush as holden!!!
i like you realise holdens arent that much chop and are overated so ill let you in on a secret……
you will not upset me by pointing out holden faults or 2 star rating barina results. what the hell does the overated VE safety got to do with me saying the toyota record appears to be actually better than toyota? the VE safety comment has no place in the argument we were in. for one we were talking about ford safety V toyota safety, and for two i dont like holdens anyway
and finally thanks missile im glad you could see it, at no point did i compare anything but a kluger and territory. i never implied the territory was a better tower than a prado.
stop getting yourself wound up
Andrew.M funny you mention the Hilux in terms of towing, just today on the highway I saw one with its tray fully loaded and towing a small caravan (one of those ones thats folds out). Didnt seem to be struggling! Eitherway I think the point with the Kluger is, you wouldnt wanna be towing anything in eitther it or the territory of any great size (in excess of a tonne).
Phew it seems were are all starting to agree in areas.
I guess every thing will struggle at sometime towing no matter what it is ,given a large enough hill and all of us I am sure cant find a gear low enough to go down to hahaha!
Hey Andrew what’s your thoughts on the TRD challenge that arose today! I am astounded at the amount of criticism Toyota has received over it.
paul to be honest it is impossible to tell if a car struggles to tow just by looking at it and especially on the highway where it is already up to speed.
fact… the falcon will pull a load easier than a hilux. thats all im saying
id reckon you could pull a bit more than a tonne with a territory or kluger too. why do you say a tonne is the limit? have you tried it and felt any more would start to affect it?
Paul,
Why can’t you just admit the fact that the TERRITORY IS A BRILLIANT TOW VEHICLE THAT CAN EASILY TOW TO IT’S LEGAL RATED LIMIT OF 2300KG BRAKED.
No struggling, no safety issues, no legal issues.
The problem here is that you do not actually know WTF you are talking about, but like to sprout off anyway.
I would expect the Kluger to be just as capable to it’s rated limit of 2000kg as well, but I never got to that point because I need more capacity.
Bottom line, a 6yo Falcon can safely and LEGALY tow more than a Kluger.
People who tow caravans ARE looking for real world alternatives to the large 4WD barges, and SUV’s are the direction most are looking – many in this size range meet the challenge, Kluger will fall short for a lot of people.
Personally I hope Toyota are listening – I’ll relook at the next generation Kluger.
Andrew.M… yeah lol I know on the highway isnt a great indication but I assume given the individual driving it had really packed it up good, that it must do alrite. Also I think we need to consider this ’struggling’, torque is pulling power, my understanding is that doesnt neccesarily mean it does it at a brisk pace. For example, if you live in Sydney in particular Wollongong, you see the large trucks going up steep inclines fully loaded… they go like 20km/h, but with their massive amounts of torque, they just keep pulling and pulling (This is just what Ive lead to believe in terms of torque)! As for Kluger and that, yes I know they can take more, but imo around that weight is the amount you can tow with any great confidence, over that and Id think you want something the likes of a Landcruiser. And yes I have and parents have towed boats, around 800kg, with our Falcon… so I have a rough idea of the effects on a Ford engine (And Im not saying its struggled badly, but you really feel the weight dont you!)
Curious… I think you dont know what your talking about. By comments here about towing orignated when someone said the Kluger couldnt tow shyte. The fact Ive been trying to prove is that it can tow a reasonable amount, and that its rated amount is decent… not to mention no tests have been done yet to say otherwise that it cant tow its rated amount! I couldnt give a crap about the Territories towing, my point in regards to that is that BOTH the Territory and Kluger aernt exactly something youd use for a 2 tonne caravan. For a boat, a trailer or I dunno a horse float… yeah youd use it, just like you could use the Kluger. But portraying it as some towing great is BS… even Ford dont agree as they advertise that ute on TV (forgot its name) with its ‘3 tonne towing capacity’.
Paul,
The towing issue was originated by me. I wanted to know what the Klugers capacity was, since at the time it was being kept under tight wraps by Toyota, wasn’t on the web site, even my local dealer couldn’t tell me. Hence the handle of “Curious” came about.
The new Kluger is a step up from the old model, but it still can’t tow what I’ve been towing with a 6yo Falcon!
800kg towed with a Falcon = 100km/h with cruise control on – just way too easy. The Falcon quite easily hauls a 1865kg caravan. On top of that you add 80kg water, 20kg beer, food, the kids bikes and a tonne of clothing (shoot the missus packs well). I’d have to leave the missus and kids home if I had a Kluger……hang on, not a bad idea?
Pity you got yourself totally out of your league on the defence issue, oh and towing, and FWD……
curious,
hmmmm i like your spin on loading the kluger having to leave the missus behind he he
hmmm kluger hey? they should use that line in adverts and they would sell a million he he
paul,
lets get black and white here…..
ok so you got a hilux and a falcon ute sitting right here. ok so both are loaded with say 100kgs (anice round figure)
so which would you say would tow it easier?
one word answer please dont try to manipulate stuff it is a simple question
sorry meant to say 1000kgs
Curious funny that I would say your out of your league… Australia designs more then the U.S in defence lol.
Andrew.M… I dont know mate, Ive never driven a Hilux! All I know is that I saw someone who obviously had faith in their vehicles towing ability.
Hey Paul I guess just because he had faith in the Hilux doesn’t mean he should have ha.
Andrew “leave the missus and kids at home” Frown!!!
I am sure you wouldn’t ! Would you ?
Curious One… if you are doing towing comparo with 6yr old Falcon please compare apples versus apples as two different cars. Who gives a tinkers toss on towing ability, as if you would follow the towing capacity over and over then you obviously like running it into the ground and working its less then 6 or 8 cyclinder motor hard.
This Kluger (sounds like something off Seinfeld – HA HA) is a great car with a real cool interior and will sell well if priced right as package just about spot on! Lightyears ahead of previous weird design! If you want more towing ability, go up in category and motor size.
Andrew M… is that a yes! Me thinks sounds GREAT
its ok missile i was just having some fun with that last joke. i know females joke in good fun about their male counterparts. anyway i dont have kids
paul, its a matter of ease we are talking about. im not saying the hilux cant tow say 1.5T im just saying the falcon would tow it much easier. and if you dont know how the hilux tows then why do you offer your bold opinion.
it is a myth that if you tow you must use a hilux. hilux is one of the most overrated work vehicles you can get. even if you leave falcon ute out of the equation there are at least 2 other “work hacks” i would buy first.
firstly the mazda bravo/BT50 in my opinion offers the best value for your money
Curious/Andrew – pull your head in dumb pricks.
My current occupation is in the resource environment and i’ll tell it to you straight, a 3.0 D4D Hilux or the 4.0 V6 IS INFACT a far more comfortable hauler then any Commodore or Falcon.
Healthy grunt from the donks coincide with a strong, robust chassis supported by the fact that these are predominately engineered as 4×4 vehicles so that ensures that argument everytime.
In my personal life, i own a late model SR5 D4D Turbo Diesel Hilux of which is used to tow a boat or a caravan and i’ll tell you now, a Falcon or Commodore DOES NOT and WILL NOT haul as comfortably as either a Hilux or even the new Kluger. A family sedan will sit arse down but a decent size SUV like the Kluger or a commerical (Hilux) WILL AND DOES remain composed.
For so called men of knowledge (so it appears but any ‘ole clown can be a fool on the net) engine output is not the only giving factor for hauling. Vehicle weight, structure and robustness are the other MUST HAVE ingrediants that both-of-you dimwits have not acknowledged so don’t be so dumb and state a Falcon or Commodore can tow more easlly then a Hilux or even the new Kluger.
I TOW AND I KNOW.
Arguement between the Territory and Kluger is another story. The differance between the two is minimal in the Territories favour but to be brutely honest, i would go for the Kluger everytime simply becuase it is a Toyota. I treat them as a commercial in my professional life and utilise them for leasure in my personal and as far as i am concerned, nothing comes much more reliable and rugged then a Toyota with all-due respect to Nissan.
If a Kluger didn’t satisfy my requirement then the choice is simple, the Prado would be next inline and up the Toyota pecking i will go. What has Ford got, a Territory and a Ranger. Yeah right, my company brought a few Rangers ealier this year and i have few simple words to say about them – the damn things are just simply not a Toyota.
Here is some free advice for the both of you twits, get of the computer and join the REAL WORLD and stop being a couple of fools.
AHHHHHHHHH thats ok , US FEMALES MAKE FUN AT OUR MALES ? NAAAAAAAAAAA ! I wouldn’t know I don’t hang at with the women at do’s their too borring !True !
I have very little in common with them,except at GYM I have no choice but to hang out with the house wives then ! Even then there picking up their little weights and looking concerned at breaking a nail. Me naaa I can leg press 200 kilos something most guys at gym wont do! No I dont have legs like a SUMMO ! HAHA I have just always been strong from Horse riding years ago,……….still riding Horses but now their in multiples.
Ahhh but you do have a missus though! lol
Dont you check your mail ? I sent you something daysss ago!
Andrew, if you prefer a Bravo or BT50 then fulfill your boots. Toyota/Nissan are the choices for strong, rugged, robust and dependable commercials, 4×4’s or hualers.
For as long my name remains Gary Baird, no dimwit or your halfwit brother Curious will ever tell me otherwise. I would love to have you two jokers tag along for a few days and mumble some of that garbage to a few old hands.
I’ll tell you now, they’ll fuc*in laugh at the both of you.
Paul,
Where did I claim that Aus did more defence design that US??? All I pointed out is that we do a heck of a lot, and YOU have no idea. You repeated posts on the subject have only confirmed it 100%. And yes it is my league, 5 days a week.
Colonel Klink,
Sorry not entirly sure what you were geting at with you garbled post. The towing comparo is based aroung towing a 1865kg van (+loading), been doin it with a 6yo Falcon, looking to update and maybe upgrade in size. I seriously evaluated a Kluger, but it didn’t meet the requirement. I have also looked into twin cabs, the kids aren’t real happy with the back seats, but haven’t ruled that out yet.
BTW the weak link with the Falcon is the 4sp auto not the engine. Territory option would have to have 6sp auto if I went that way.
Gary Baird,
Why the personal attack? You sound just like another Toyota lover who frequents here, but keeps changing names???
Don’t go painting me as someone who dislikes Toyotas – obviously you missed the several posts where I stated that I considered a Kluger (& I am still considering Hilux twin cab).
1. I never denied towing capability of Hilux (even though it does have the LOWEST braked towing rating of all of the twin cabs, it still meets my needs).
2. As far as “haul comfortably” I assume you mean actual towing capability. Any family sedan/wagon will be more comfortable for driver & passengers that a Hilux, particulaly the rear seats.
3. A Falcon with a properly installed load transfer hitch will not drags it’s arse end. Only ignorance of a proper setup would suggest otherwise. Those who use a sedan to tow heavy loads without the proper hitch are foolish.
4. Of couse I have acknowledged that weight and structure determine towing capacity, it was that dimwit Paul who was suggesting it was engine output. You failed to mention driveline stength – and that is what I believe to be the Klugers limitation.
Lets set some facts straight:
Falcon/Territory 2300kg, Hilux 2250kg, Commy 2100kg, Kluger 2000kg. All manufacters maximum rated brakes towing capacity AND the legal mamximum.
5. If my rating requirement was under 2000kg I might choose the Kluger, but currently the Kluger just doesn’t cut it. Also the driving position in the Kluger I find a bit odd – bonnet line is rather high, but roofline is low. Sun visor is too low and next to useless, you just cant see dowm the road. Remember I did evaluate a Kluger, and drove it before even the dealer had tow ratings.
5. Not keen on a Prado, getting too big, and for the other 350 days a year I don’t want to drive a “truck”.
6. Ranger/BT50? Not sure there yet. Manual rated to 3000kg, auto 2500kg. Newest engine in class. Rated best 4×4 ute by Aus 4×4 magazine – they claim it has leapfrogged the Hilux.
7. Fool? That would be a one eyed biased twit like you. I have done the research, evaluated and driven the cars AND I have plenty of real world experince.
Hey Toyotas work for you, then good luck. I prefer to look at things in an honest and open fashion and consider all real options. Personally, I can’t get the Toyota dealer to substantiate the $6k plus price difference for a Hilux. Besides that, my last Toyota (V6 camry)was a dog.
Sorry I can’t leave the computer just yet…designing some defence thingy.
QUOTE = Paul,
Where did I claim that Aus did more defence design that US??? All I pointed out is that we do a heck of a lot, and YOU have no idea. You repeated posts on the subject have only confirmed it 100%. And yes it is my league, 5 days a week.
No mate, you know where the argument went to and you continued. Im not gonna look through every post and waste my time, I started to argue that, you argued against it. Simple.
And Gary Baird, well put. Everything you say is true to, like the Falcon thing, when we were towing a 800kg boat we needed stiffer strings put in because ITS NOT DESIGNED TO TOW. But you cant win with people like Curious, he attacks the Kluger for its towing ability when its rated fro only 300kg less braked and much less unbraked… with all other issues (like ‘drivetrain strength’) not known for the Kluger, so they cant be considered at this stage! Just jumping to conclusions.
Paul,
You’ve already lost on the defence thing – I never claimed that Aus does more defence stuff than the US. Don’t be an idiot, the US defence industry has more people involved than half the Aus population.
Clearly, if you needed stiffer springs to tow 800kg with a Falcon, you have no idea on how to setup a tow vehicle, and were probably exceeding towbar downforce rating.
How did you miss the fact that my Falcon happily tows a 1865kg van (plus exra loading), without any suspension mods, just a correctly fitted load transfer hitch and trans cooler. It’s an undeniable fact – LOSER!
Lol Loser… that hurt me. Im just saying it how it is, relatively small boat, the Falcon needed some work done. Its a family car afterall, designed to tow a trailer here and their… not be transformed into a vehcile towing 1800kg. I pity whoever buys your car off you, not just the engine but the chasis would have been put through stresses they werent designed for.
Like you would know how it’s “designed”. Matter of fact I don’t believe that you even fully understand the term “designed” in an engineering sense.
Like I said earlier I can tow 800kg and forget that its even there, 100km/h & cruise control – totlally unrealistic and unbelievable example. Nobody believes your BS pal. Daddy’s Falcon was it? Small dingy was it?
And my Falcon?, great condition “above average” were the dealers words.
Funny we towed 800kg on the highway, it didnt seem extremely happy… the Falcon made some weird noises, only when towing. Maybe it was something minor or even unrelated, but it certainly wasnt a case of forgetting it was their!
As for the rest, I dont have to have a strong grasp of design, its f*ckin common sense mate… something you seem to lack in this case. A family sedan was not designed with towing 1800kg as its primary objective. Something like a Landcruiser, which would have had this kind of towing in mind during design, is far better. Not to mention due to its increased rigidity etc because its an offroad vehcile, more weight etc… it is the safest option for towing large loads.
And the dealer comment… they aernt even mechanics lol. He sees a clean engine and a shiny paint job and thinks its in great condition, but what about underneath the skin. But mate each unto their own, I know I wouldnt wanna be the next owner, but congrats on towing 1800kg in a family car.
Gary Baird,
mate you might want to read what i have posted in the past before you want to come on here and start being the hero.
the last comments i made were in relation the the actual pulling power of the falcon.
earlier i had stated its not all torque, and stability is the main reason why a patrol for e.g. can be rated at over 3 tonne.
also in relation to dragging the arse of a falcon on the ground i am talking about a FALCON UTE!!! yep you know the thing that is in the same class as a 2WD hilux. the falcon ute has leaf springs and is not going to let the rear drop as much as a sedan with coils. if you want to compare a falcon sedan towing then you must compare it to the Aurion ha ha ha
any way curious is dead right. if you are setting up a falcon sedan to do a bit of towing then (if you buy the towbar from ford) it comes with the load levelling kit and oil cooler that curious is talking about.
also if you want a family sedan to tow in the falcon is the best choice. paul if you say daddys falcon struggled then any other sedan would have died.
i stand by what i have said Gary Baird and Paul,
my mate had a 2WD hilux any it really really struggled to to what my falcon ute does and handling wasnt that good under load eitther.
now he has a 4X4 TDI Lux and what i have said is mine still easily out pulls his.
if you want to compare ultimate towing chassis etc you can compare a falcon sedan to a landcruiser. come on be fair and factor in an explorer and the F Truck range when you want to talk landcruiser
Paul,
Clearly you personally have never towed any significant load, let alone one as insignificant as 800kg. To say that it is something that a Falcon would struggle with is just plain ludicrous. I have to constantly remind myself that I am towing something. Passengers totally forget, without looking behind!
All vehicles have many design criteria which have to be met to make the vehicle what it is. To say that a Falcon is not designed to tow 1800kg is just plain B/S.
Your scenario: OK then lets design a car, tack on more and more weight behind it, see when it breaks, allright thats what it can tow.
Real world: OK we want a car that can seat 5/6 in comfort, have good structural crash attributes, carry thier luggage/sports gear, tow a horsefloat, maybe a caravan. What towing limit do you want? 2300kg. OK. What materials/sections do we need to do that? Lets DESIGN the vehicle to meet our criteria. To suggest that a Falcon does not have a reasonable tow rating in mind at the time of design is just plain idiotic. (Paul?).
Obviously that’s way oversimplifying it, but hopefully it’s simple enough for you Paul.
The dealer service dept. had plenty of time to properly evaluate condition of my car, over three years! Anyway, a quick check of a few things is REAL EASY for anyone who actually understands cars. You know, condition of trans fluid is a real indicator Paul, but I guess we are now beyound your limits of understanding and experience.
Curious – this is how insane this topic has become… we now have Andrew trying to compare a family hack sedan to a purposely engineered rugged, heavy offroad vehicle like the Cruiser.
Seriuosly pal… do you honestly think that anyone with an ounce of intelligence would take this discussion to heart.
I was going to participate BUT when i sighted Andrews reponse i realised i was talking to complete wallys.
Instead, i will take the easy road and quote monthly sales instead !!
MY BET – THE NEW KLUGER WILL BE IT !!
Gary,
mate ive told you to read my last posts and you will see i have actually pointed out that the reason for the landcruiser being a better tower IS because of its muce rigid and stable setup.
i have never said the falcon chassis would ever be more stable than a landcruiser chassis under loads
go on read my last half a dozen posts or so
and what are you trying to prove by quoting monthly sales?
gee i think the wally award goes to you mate
ah i see there actually was a typo in my last paragraph of my last post….it should have read….
“if you want to compare ultimate towing chassis etc you CANT compare a falcon sedan to a landcruiser. ”
well i thought it didnt make sence if it was “can” otherwise it would have been a contradiction in the very next sentence.
so whats your point?
PAUL, mate you are a deadset DILL again. Clearly you personally have never towed any significant load, let alone one as insignificant as 800kg. To say that it is something that a Falcon would struggle with is just plain ludicrous. FACT YOU NEED TO RAM HOME HARD INTO YOUR MINDSET – I have a BA Falcon ute and had trailer sailer some 1600kgs and it towed it easy. Checked at Ford Dealership and was told if weight of car is 1700kgs then I could tow 1700kgs reasonably OK. FACT IS IT TOWED IT EASILY, SO YOU OBVIOUSLY LIVE IN A SMALL SIMPLE WORLD TO STATE IT WOULD STRUGGLE AT 800KGS. Sometimes I enjoy reading comments around your postings as you cop a ribbing and do really piss people off!
Mate its really beyond ridiculous how you people cant read properly. I never said it would struggle to tow 800kg, please quote me saying that. I just said that when we towed 800kg, YOU CAN FEEL IT (and in our case it wasnt all smooth sailing, it got the job done, but you didnt just forget it was there like some suggest), to suggest you cant is just plain f*cking ridiculous. Even a truck can feel its load, feeling it and being able to tow something comfortably are two different things. Hell you have a loaded car of people you feel it. That just about sums this argument up for me… playing on words. Petty.
Andrew, you are a pure and simple wally.
To revisit this site and read the sh*t you have typed is entertaining at the very least. I beg the question to myself, how can some morons be so disturbed and not even know it.
‘My mate now has a 4X4 TDI Hilux and my Falcon can tow better’.
F*ck me dead – how dead set thick are you kido.
Are going to tell me that your family sedan with a petrol engine can tower more easily then a larger, heavier, higher, rugged, purposely engineered off-road vehicle with a direct injected Turbo/intercooled Diesel that produces in excess of 400NM of torque.
Wow, sorry pal but i seriuosly under estimated how challenged you must be. I wish you the best of luck in finding help.
200 series Cruiser.
Direct Injected, Twin Turbo Charged/Intercooled, 4.5 V8 Diesel producing 212kw and 650nm of stump pulling torque.
I suppose a Falcon is still a better vehicle to tow with.
F-series are a good pickup but next to useless off-road and the Ranger – what about it !!
Like i said kido, it ain’t no Toyota.
Before you hit back with some grub comment, take a big deep breath and get some oxygen to that challenged thinker of yours.
Wally.
hello!!!!!!!!
i said falcon ute VS hilux
my mates TD hilux has 340nm odd and a piddly 120kw odd
so what if the f trucks are useless off road? so is a trailer if you are towing it.
there are a lot of places no matter what you drive you wont tow anything through anyway.
and get over the image that my falcon is a family sedan with soft springs
also get rid of your unnecessary personal insults as it is people like yourself that ruin this site. i dont insult or swear at others so i expect the same.
GET OVER YOURSELF
i think you are seriously taking me out of context
Simmer down old mate Andrew is the first to admit for heavy towing a Patrol or Cruiser is the better option ,he is simply comparing the Kluger against a Falcon . F- series are the better alterative than a Cruiser again if you have something REAL big to tow but hey what would I know I am only speaking from the experience of owning them!Who would compare an F-Tuck to a Cruiser in the Bush ? Hardly made for the same conditions.
Hahah Gary Baird, quality act.
Gary, Blind loyalty, errors of fact to support an erroneous argument, and abuse, yeah real class act – NOT.
Paul your support for this abusive idiot is stupid.
Falcon: 190kW @ 5250, 383Nm @ 2500
Hilux: 120kW @ 3400, 343Nm @ 3200
And just for interest
Ranger/BT50: 115kW @ 3200, 380Nm @ 1800
Now tell me, based on you simplistic appraoch, which is likely to be able to tow more.
BTW both Navara and Hilux are widely criticised by off road “experts” for not developing enough torque lower down in the rev range.
The same “experts” rate the Discovery as superior the the Land Cruiser for towing AND off road.
Anyone any idea on how the H3 Hummer fares? But it is a US GM product so there’s probably issues there anyway.
I dont know heaps about the Hiluxs like Gary, but I know that the Diesel variant has peak torque from 1400RPM to around 3400RPM. I dont know how much lower you can get…
If Toyota are not going to fit roof rails to the base model KXR then I am not interested. It is after all supposed to be a SUV.
paul dont forget you cant compare rev ranges of a diesel to a petrol.
for starters they idle at about half of that of a petrol and they certainly dont climb with the needle as quickly
Thanks for that curious,
i am here and i have stated that a falcon ute pulls better than a hilux. i will defend it to the death as the figures on paper suggest it and also i have done a real life comparison with the 2.
when i brought up F trucks it was in relation to an uneducated and blinded comment that said ford has nothing to rival the rugged chassis of a landcruiser.
ford actually has something that will easily out tow a landcruiser.
in my opinion you will not be that better off towing with a landcruiser untill you hit around the 1.5T mark. also im my opinion 1.5T on a falcon at 100Kmh on a bumpy road will not throw the falcon around too much. if you are heading over that mark then yes vehicle stability with a more rigid set up should be considered and thats when a cruiser might come in
Buy a Falcon for towing and it may tow as good as a Hilux but that’s it.
Buy a Hilux and you can it use Commercially, For Towing, as an Off-Roader, Family Transporter and all for a similar towing capacity as a restricted family sedan.
Also, when you are traveling in the remote arid landscape of this great wide open nation in the blistering heat and rugged roads, what will be a more convincing performer – a Falcon or a TDI Hilux. Gee, i really wonder.
Sorry Andrew but Gary’s got ‘ya mate, i’m with him.
If i had a decent size boat icould still do some mild country treking to get to my favourite secluded ramp but not possible in the Falcon. Ranger does nothing for me either.
HILUX PLEASE. TDI OR 4.0 V6 WILL BE GREAT THANKS.
Andrew.M well you can compare if your comparing Hilux v Falcon. Thats one reason why I think a Hilux is better, in diesel form and on top of that 4×4, very hard to believe a Falcon can match its towing ability when you have all that torque available down so low and the traction of 4 wheels. But admittably Im not expert, I think the Falcon does well for what it is but at the end of the day, something like a Hilux is purpose built for this kind of work.
Gary, changing names and giving yourself self praise is a bit shallow. After you lose an argument, inventing another name to post a compliment is really lame.
And the argument is still lost. Nobody claimed off-road ability for Falcon. People who want 4WD will buy a 4WD. People who just want a car for everyday use and to tow don’t necessarily need a 4WD.
And the Ranger? Runner up 4WD UTE OF THE YEAR (to i’ts Mazda twin the BT50). Hilux came third.
Dunno Toyota Paul, compared to others in class, the Hilux: “engine lacks low-down grunt” and 3200rpm is rather high for a diesel to develope max torque. The Navara is also critisised for lack of low down torque and it develops a max 403Nm @ 2000rpm!
The stats are Hilux max torque between 1400RPM – 3400RPM. So Im not sure if its lacks torque… but yes given that its be chosen 3rd would suggest it isnt perfect. But then again I dont see heaps of BT50s, certainly see alot of Hiluxs, people have faith in them.
This has turned out to be a classic…
I guess that why we see the stickers:
“Toyota Hilux Rescue Vehicle” on the back of Nissan Patrols and Pathfinders.
LOL
How Top Gear tried to destroy a Hilux.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hzRLG8dA-E
I dont quite get that joke… the equivalent Nissan is the Navara… not to mention I have never seen these stickers you speak of. Fact is the Hilux is held in high esteem commercially, it didnt get a good reputation off the back of marketing… it got it because it gets the job done.
I flicked past this site by mistake looking for a review on a car – and this is some of the funniest stuff i think i have ever read. I have been hooked for the last half hour laughing my ass off. You guys really get into it. I wonder who will get the last word in…
Im bookmarking this page and staying on for the next exciting instalment :)
T Paul,
YES, Hilux max torque 343Nm @ 1400rpm according to Toyota.com.au, the other source is obviously a misprint. Still they do whinge about a lake of low down torque in the Hilux, in the body of the story.
As for Ranger/BT50 they haven’t actualy been on the market that long, but I still see plenty gettin’round. The Ranger in particular seems to be a fav with the local councils.
Sales of Ranger (and Navara) have been hampered by lack of supply, with waiting lists for many models in the range.
paul, do you have selected reading??
i said earlier you can not compare the revrange of a diesel to a petrol. a diesel still would take longer to get to 1400RPM than a falcon to 2000RPM get it? also heve you noticed diesels idle at about half that of a petrol? also i bet no one has ever seen a diesel hit 6000RPM
curious it right. no one ever said the falcon has offroad capabilities.
and bad boy , why cant you use a falcon ute commercially? i am talking about a falcon ute not a 4 door sedan with coil overs. people need to start reading stuff properly before they make silly assumptions
Paul, you say you are no expert then why do you continue to offer your uneducated opinions. once again read what i have said about diesel rev ranges
any one who is into 4WDriving will tell you the nissan is the better performer.
and i still stand by my statement that the falcon ute has more pull than a diesel hilux. has any one else done a side by side comparison like i have? if not then just read the power/torque figures and then think maybe just maybe what i am saying is perhaps right
oh yes paul and the falcon ute is a purpose built vehicle just like the hilux
also if i wanted a basic work hack i would buy the BT50 aswell. much better value.
another mate of mine bought a 2wd hilux at the end of last year and even he said he should have bought the Mazda because it is much better value.
toyota has an image that if you want a work ute you must drive a hilux. it is wrong. there are many other work vehicles that have the same reliability and ability of a hilux and offer much better value.
Hello guys,
I can see this is getting a little off track. to both Ford and Toyota enthusiasts it is a case of the better vehicle is the newer vehicle. normaly always is if there is more than a two year gap in on sale dates. Now i am slightly biased in regards to Ford, as i actually sell them, however i see from both sides as no car is perfect and it is different cars for different people.
In regards to the Territory it came out in 2004 using basically the 2002 Falcon technology, (albeit with a few technological advances), and back then Knee airbags were not in use in any car, plus the fact the Kluger has 6 other airbags versus the Territory’s 4 comes down to design. The Territory’s seats in the front sit further inboard than the Klugers whereby eliminating the useful effectivness of seat mounted side airbags in the designs of 2002-2004 airbag technology. This positioning of the seats gives Territory a buffer from side impacts and they designed the curtain airbags to compensateby increasing size and coverage area.
Also, and i can’t find out what the Kluger has, the Territory is a full size adult seven seater with 5, yes five, baby capsule points in the rear. The ADR rulings to meet this are pretty strict and have stopped many cars making it to our shores because of it wich shows the structual integrity of the basic car. The middle seat in the Kluger’s second row is a little bit too small for any reasonable comfort of an adult although average children shouldn’t find it a problem.
I do congratulate toyota on making ESP standard on all models and this made Ford aware and has included it on all Territory’s from July 1 onwards (even after the price drop). The Kluger also has an impressive first impression when first opening the door but why do they insist on dody looking stereo’s that although acousticly fine are rather crap to look at considering the rest of the interior measures up to a reasonably high level in this segment. I think 19″ alloys are a bit too far on the Grande and KX-S but since since these probably won’t see the dirt they should be fine, although a little pricey to replace.
One major gripe, why design a bonnet that from the inside of the car looks like an elephant sat on it? Stupid or just the american tastes of what they think looks good?
Andrew.M the problem here is I admitted Im not an expert when giving my opinion, YOU DONT. Gary has caught you out on this one. Have you read what you’ve written… a petrol engine where towing is an afterthought is better then a Diesel prity much designed for it. You can read your stats as much as you want and try to interprate them, simple fact, peak torque at 1400RPM. You can say it cant tow as comfortably as your Falon, simple fact, 1000s of commercial examples would tend to disagree. You can say the Falcon tows better, simple fact, the chassis and suspension set up on the Hilux was designed for it. You can continue arguing about this, simple fact, you’ve lost this argument.
TOYOTA PAUL…. can see your point. Ford BA falcon develops quite high torque at low revs. Go through scale on both @ question mate and compare as do not think it is clear cut. The diesel you are querying would need a bigger motor to checkmate the Ford out of the equation me thinks! Let us know mate what you find as yet to be 100% convinced. Ciao
TOYO PAUL…oops crikey typo! Compare both rpms at commencement at 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000rpm as I agree with Andrew as when I had my 6metre trailer sailer and towed it with my BA Falcon LPG ute and other half’s car she owns being a Rodeo Turbo diesel the Falcon shit all over it. Iam on Andrew M’s side, in your favour only thing agree with is that diesel will go day after day tougher, stronger and better longevity then petrol!
typo two – take three – action = she owned!
Toyota Paul,
Number one you need to take off your sightly (sic) biased view of japanese cars and look into the light. The Focus is the safest car on the road in the small car segment. proven in europe and Australia. The XR5 comes with 6 airbags stability control traction control abs with ebd etc etc etc. Built in germany and yes is only front wheel drive however you need to be consistant in your appraisals. you deny the Aurion TRD would have understeer that could result in accidents yet then you tell us that the focus because of its front wheel drive would be useless. not so. Have had many customers compare all brands of cars to the XR5 and unless they are looking for a weekend warrior, aka WRX(modded) VXR,MPS, normally sell them an XR5 due to the great compromise of handling and comfort with enough power to have fun but not get into trouble.
As previously mentioned i am a Ford salesman but am will to admit when one of our cars doesn’t stack up, but am sick and tired of people spouting the Ford doesn’t do saftey thing. Only recently has the Falcon and Territory been knocked of the safest Australian built car list, and remember Ford own VOLVO, The leader in saftey in cars.
sorry everyone, paul got me wound up in the TRD AURION Blog and forgot what one i was typing into.
ROCKET3… dont get upset. Paul has that effect and not getting wound up. He is a uni student and smarter (in his own mind) then the average bear…YEAH
ROCKET3… typo should be dont you get wound up. The more you read of him the bigger the laugh from all. He means well and at times he is a great read!
Lol Klink what are you high on mate, so many errors. As for your other post, I think the Falcon may feel better unload load, thats the power element your feeling.. as I mentioned earlier torque isnt about feeling a surge, its about going all day long. You just have to look at a heavy truck going up a hill, it goes 20km/h, but it will do that all day long.
Rocket I think you need to re-read my posts before you burst a blood vessel. Firstly I made a passing reference in the other thread about Focus safety, it was brief, but fyi the Impreza is the only vehicle range to have a 5 star satety rating. I mainly spoke about the XR6T which as far as I know doesnt have anywhere near the same amount of airbags as the WRX. Anyway the other point I will make is that I never attacked the XR5T because it was FWD, I dont know how you came to this conclusion. Personally Id got the WRX > XR5T simply because its better… AWD so its handling is better, faster in a straight line, more features (XR5T doesnt have cruise control) and more distinctive.
Thanks Colonel,
You are right, some of the stuff i have read is a little laughable i must admit. I don’t mind admiting if a car is good but wrong facts have plagued Ford for years and unfortunatly, or fortunatly, Ford lets people make up their own mind instead of bashing opposition. This has somettimes been to their own detriment and they also don’t convey things properly sometimes.
this was initially my main reason for being here was to clean up misconceptions of all cars and specs but this seems like a lost cause.
Toyota Paul,
Check your Facts,
Ford Focus was the first small car to earn a five star crash rating across the whole range. Granted this was only from the 1st of July on the LT model upgrade but the XR5T has always had a Five star crash rating as no specs have changed on this car since it was released in 2006. Yes i understand cruise is a BIG ommission and as a salesman don’t see why it couldn’t have been done ecept they have a different steering wheel than standard focus models. Not a good reason but at least it has been explained. The older WRX is not a great car but a competent one on the performance specs. havn’t look at the new one yet but from what i have read it should have come right up to if not gone past the focus on quality of materials, as it should. it is three years newer.
Rocket3, yes Iam a Ford supporter and not a know-it-all like some (HINT HINT). You must take it in your stride as some people are so wet between the ears that they should be still wearing nappies. ToyotaPaul do not take serious – at times he means well but one soon learns on this site some are like Naughtyness Maximus off The Life of Brian – the more they talk the funnier it is and they got shot down in flames. Paul is one of them as he breaks away from the pack and shows his character quite well (do not even think it would be a photo finish with him as he would not pip anyone at the post). WE HAVE A PAUL… RELEASE PAUL. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“always look on the bright side of life” i guess
Paul, mate Iam high on reality… and not yoga for beginners with head up bum at times that dont know right from wrong (light from dark). You and your diesel comparo comment…………………………..LOL
Paul if you look at facts I did say diesels will go better long term and as for load the Falcon towed heaps and went fine (yet you state your stupid comment AGAIN). Shame you cant do us all a uni type thesis comparo; but put me down when I put you to the challenge to compare the two. Hmmmm got that ass about!
Lol Klink your a joke… what you type and reality are two different things. Just like your split personality, from a lunatic on this site to some poster TRYING to act like he has wisdom. Purely an act. You try and tell someone a Diesel is outperformed in towing by a petrol engine of equivalent size, youd get laughed out of the room. Just like I laugh at the drivel that comes from you.
Rocket3 fair enough, dont get me wrong I dont mind the XR6T… but personally I prefer the WRX. Its a preference thing, each unto their own.
I meant XR5T in that last post. And Klink mate can you put this all into one post, get back onto your medication to control that split personality of yours.
Paul mate you are a deadset goose.
FACTS ARE YOU HAVE THREE DIFFERENT NAMES AS YOU ARE COMING TO TERMS WITH LIFE, PUBERTY, UNI AND WORKING OUT HOW TO PUT YOUR VIEWS ACROSS WITHOUT ANNOYING EVERYONE. PAUL YOU MOSTLY PISS EVERYBODY OFF AND GET SO MANY MANY CRAPPY COMMENTS BACK WITH YOUR SELF PROCLAIMED MINISTRY OF DUMB VIEWS (sometimes good) AND I NEVER SAID THE PETROL WOULD OUT DO A DIESEL AS YOU BENT THAT FACT, SO DONT SHIT IN YOUR NAPPY AGAIN AND SIT BACK DOWN AS YOU WILL STINK MORE… MAYBE CHANGE YOUR NAME FOR THE FOURTH TIME TO…………………………. PUBERTY PAUL.
You don’t like it so piss off as there will be less people getting annoyed. FACT. FACT FACT.
Hahahah Klink your good for a laugh. My name has changed from Paul…. to Toyota Paul. Man that must be challenging for you! And it wasnt like you ‘Roberto’, because of a late night spasm, but because someone starting using ‘Paul’ and posting under it. I was forced. Regardless yes I did bend a fact, now you know what it feels like… people around here enjoy bending facts!
PAUL… LOL!!! Read reality on my comment (and not what you perceive what I said) at 6.30pm by me as you misquoting me FULLY!
LOL. Paul you pissed me off that night (just like you do with people like ROCKET3) and over it. GOT ME YOU BUGGER!
Mate your going to burst a blood vessel at this rate… typing with CAPS on! Take a few deep breaths, get that medication the doctor perscribed into you… and calm down lol. “FACT. FACT. FACT”
Ok Paul Im going to fess up, I was wrong on the Diesel argument… you were right. Friends?
PAUL. Wont even worry about that as you comment defies commonsense. You mean well but basically are so obtuse in your thinking you do not even rate. Good read and hey who needs hunour when I can hear the coefficient of linear expansion crackling away in your head…. LOL YOU ARE A BARREL OF LAUGHS
Thanks for the offer Klink, but no deal on the friends thing.
On another topic, I think I should be on the Caradvice.com.au payroll. I bring the people in, evidence is ‘Tina Girl’. My comedic value is through the roof… ever since Ive been here posts have gone up significantly. I will have to get into negotiation with the crew.
What yuz onya about?
Klink all Im gonna say is that becuase F1 is RWD its better. Ok, simple as that… this is the kind of argument that gets supported around here. Of course I cant win! Surrounded by Ford and Holden folk who are obviously pro-RWD
You need to work on your ‘Toyota Paul’ impersonations Klink… havent got it quite yet.
Gosh ya betta knot looke in the mirror, sumthing will grow offya forehead and brake the mirror bro! Crackthe mirror hey!
Man oh man ya change ya name and no way Clink wood be friends with fiend like ya! Ya post up on hiz be 1/2 hey!
Aaaah better but its still to much like yourself Klink, incoherent.
What the hell I get off website and come back and now what you going on about me. Paul maybe you should run as PM…
Sure thing good money in that, more then the $30k a builder gets lol
Paul like I said earlier, get the figures on Nm torque of the comparo you state with Hilux v Falcon and it wont be huge difference from 1500rpm upwards! Is that a hard request or you just spew forth on soapbox with your views and go on! Just do it as most would be interested!
Ok is it just me or are the live comments not getting updated?
Mine is saying Rocket 3 was the last and that was ages ago on this post…what the hell is going on?
ARGHHHHHHH,I am seriously frustrasted ,I am off to read my new BMW mag.Try again later!Lisa
Roger that Missile, but of a hit and miss on live comments!
Frustrated…………cant even bloody spell now.
Missile, Toyota Paul is a work of art, mate he is great read sometimes but most times he pisses all off and creates dramas?
HEY Klink Pauls ok, I think everyone is pushing each others buttons now on this post .
Oh I love all the passion you guys have for your cars!. Saw a post earlier asking the question about 3 child anchor points in the Kluger and not sure I could find an answer. Does it have 3 or only 2??? I know about the whole airbag for the knees comment but seriously, my children being in an anchored child restraint is so much more important than and airbag to stop my knee getting bumped! I agree with familyman 100%. I would love a Kluger but if I cannot fit 3 child restraints in the second row of seats I am heading out to buy a Territory.
Hope someone can give me a sensible response
Thanks :-)
OK quicker search, here is a discussion on the topic:
http://members.essentialbaby.c.....&st=10
For those who are lazy, although this isnt official word:
“The second row of the Kluger has two configurations
1) two captains seats(which have two anchor points)
3) three normal car seats (which have three anchor points)”
thanks for putting it back on track mum of 3.
oh yeah and i agree with you
paul im over the towing thing. if you dont believe that a petrol motor with more torque and an absolute bucket load of more power cant out tow a diesel and even after i have done a side by side test than, im never going to convince you
the only thing diesels have going for them is greater fuel efficiency and longevity.
the economoy is equal that of a falcon but blitzes the V6 variant for example.
a diesel hilux uses half the fuel of a V6 hilux that is why people go for the diesel aswell. your typical V6 variant utes (not including the falcon or commy) use twice the fuel. about 400k’s to the tank. so pay more for diesel and you save it on fuel and you can count on it lasting longer
Mum of 3.
The kluger only has two properchild anchorage points. both second row and on the outboard seats. took me ages and many phone calls to different dealers to work this out. The territory actually has five. three in the middle and two in the rear.
Andrew M please let sleeping dogs lie
Thanks for that Rocket3. Looks like I am off to get a Territory!. Might look at the old model Kluger but they are not as wide as the Territory so might have trouble actually fitting 3 child restraints side by side.
Mum of 3
another problem with older Klugers and almost every other soft roader 7 seater at the moment if the back seats are for children only. Effectivly making them 5+2 seaters. Good luck and if you want anymore help let me know.
Umm MUmof3 I wouldnt race off quite yet, I posted a comment which is ‘awaiting moderation’ because it has a link in it. Its not official word but from a forum, many people including dealers are confused it would seem on this issue, but its been stated:
““The second row of the Kluger has two configurations
1) two captains seats(which have two anchor points)
2) three normal car seats (which have three anchor points)”
My other post which still needs to be cleared has a link for further reading. Before righting the Kluger off, given this uncertainty, go to the dealer and see for yourself…. hopefully a competent dealer will be their to show you around the vehicle.
why so much confusion?
what are thew dealers looking under the car for them?
Your question is in fact answered by the same individual that I got the previous quote from:
“Most of the display cars are set up to show off the captains seats, which may be why some people are only counting two anchor points.”
Happy? Quite reasonable, especially with dealers, with a new car they aernt always on the ball. When I test drove the Impreza they new nothing about it!
Thanks for that Toyota Paul. I have just called another dealer who basically had no idea????? I know to most this is only a minor issue but for me it is crucial that all my children are safe and secure. It makes sense that you have an option with the rear seat. It would make even MORE sense if Toyota inform their staff of this fact so that prospective buyers know exactly what their options are. I know of a couple of people who have, it seems, been misinformed and therefore not purchased a Kluger.
Thanks for your help
Hello Mumof3,
I have had my friend who works at Lexus check for me with his toyota colleugues and i the info i was given was wrong.
There are three child anchor points on the back of the middle row of seats. exactly what paul says is true that even most of their staff didn’t even know this as they normally have the middle seat stowed away.
I am sorry for the confusion but all i can say is check to make sure the car suits you in every way.
i.e. rear vision, baby seats fit comfortably in all three positions together(this is a big one, and any respectable Toyota dealership will take the time to help you do this, as if baby seats are not sitting flat on the cushion of the seat they do not provide the protection needed),etc etc
please don’t just buy because the colour is nice or it is the newest thing as this can often lead to dissapointment down the track.
have fun shopping.
p.s. I do work as a salesman in a Ford dealership so i wanted to know this myself. win some, lose some.
to paul and mumof3,
I respect of dealership training from the manufacturer’s it is very poor latley. I will put my own experience forward, the new Focus range and fiesta XR4 were released around the middle of the year, july and june respectivley. Ford did not train us until late August. Dumb? me thinks so. Again they are doing it with the Mondeo. from what i have read on other sites the press launch is 2 weeks away, yet we still don’t know when we are getting them, the types of models (obviously XR5T), let alone driving them.
Unfortunatly we get told less than the public.
at least it is not only ford but toyota and subaru as well
Just in case anyone reads this and makes a decision off it… not the recent study which showed only 40% of AWD Territories are problem free in first months of purchase while 74% of Klugers are problem free. Looks like these great towing territories are lemons.
note*
The study can been seen at Drive
so where does toyota forward your commission Paul?
Mate I wish I got a commission, Id be a rich man. I just think people who may use this as a source of information have a right to know… the Territory apparently has a poor record in the first 5 months, well poor putting it nicely, only 40% of AWDs NOT having problems… thats piss poor. Relating to our arguments, Id say then that the Kluger is a far better tower, simply because its actually on the road more to actually be used by its owners for it!!!
But Paul,
The Kluger legally DOES NOT HAVE THE TOWING CAPACITY of the Territory. You can argue this all you like but Paul, FACTS ARE FACTS.
Toyota also predicts that up to 60% of Klugers sold will be 2WD ie FRONT Wheel Drive – NOT a good towing situation.
Anyway yet to even see a new Kluger on the road, let alone one with a towbar towing anything!
I bought a 2wd 5 seater base model XK-R plus 6 stacker CD and tow bar, and took delivery end September. Have done three 400k round trips to the country now, and quite a bit round town.
For me it is an ideal vehicle. We do have to travel a few km of rough dirt road in the country, but the Kluger handles it with aplomb – just as good as my old disco. The good ground clearance and big wheels handle the dirt far better than our Subaru Outback. I went for the 2WD since I keep the old disco for the heavy 4WD work, since I don’t mind it getting scratched, and it is very good for that purpose.
The Kluger has heaps of room inside. One trip we did with four of us – including two hulking sons in the rear, and all of us were impressed with how roomy and comfortable it is.
I was surprised by the fuel economy I am getting. The fuel ‘puter operates by the tank. I filled it up in the country and when I got home (having cruised at just under 120kph for most of the way) the ‘puter said 8.2 l/100km which doesn’t seem too bad to me.
With the combination of city/highway/country driving, I am so far averaging 10 l/100km. That could be how I drive. I’m now into my 60s and well past my boy-racer years (thankfully)!
Overall, I am very pleased with it. It is very stable on the road, and handles well. The steering hasn’t been an issue for me.
The dealer I bought it from says that it is selling like hot cakes, such that they cannot deliver until the new year now.
Ray,
Thats great to hear. I quite like the new Kluger, but still haven’t seen any, other that dealer demos, on the road here in SA. When I drove it I felt like I was peering down a tunnel, over that bonnet & under the windscreen top. I couldn’t use the sunvisor at all – could not see far enough down the road!
Bottom line though, I could not legally tow my caravan with a Kluger, so have stuck with the Falcon for now.
Will wait till 6 speed Territories become more common on the used scene or the new model next year and reconsider then, also looking at twin cab utes.
Anyway Kluger is out of the equation, without sufficient towing capacity, and I don’t like the ‘Cruiser range of trucks (sorry 4WDs).
I bought a Kluger 3 weeks ago, biggest car I have ever owned. It is very quite, comfortable and easy to drive. The fuel economy is 9l/100km on a trip and 12.4l/100km in the city doing regular 5 to 10km drives in hilly suburbs.
all i continue to hear is how the ford territory is such a fabulous vehicle. i have watched the banter too and fro . i bought a kluger 2months ago , i own a ba ford ute . need i say more .
by the way , Brett u r a tool
Have had a KXR 2WD 7seater for about a month, great car drives well, 3 problems
1. when the cargo barrier is removed there are 2 ugly holes in the side panels infront of the 3rd seat passengers
2. rear seat belt locks
3. cd jams in CD player
and there is no audible low fuel warning.
Camd, don’t know what that personal insult was all about.
How did you miss the point that I like the Kluger (although found the driving position a little strange) BUT I can not legally tow my caravan with a Kluger, it just does not have the legal towing capacity required (but a Falcon does!).
Perhaps you take offence at my opinion that I don’t want to drive a “truck” 4WD (Landcruiser/Patrol etc) 7 days a week?
Picking up new kluger on Friday. will give you my thoughts on it. done lot of reserach before making this decision. In the end, there are so many good cars, all with so many features, most of them not relevant to all. For us, it was resale value and general popularity that was important. you guessed it right, its a lease veichle. so go with Toyota to be safe.
litapajar,
why are you worried about resale value if it is a lease vehicle?
do you mean you are claiming it on your tax?
if so it doesnt matter as you would be goverened by the tax depreciation rate anyway. if it depreciates less than the tax rate then you will be stung by the ATO
To all the towing “expert” out there from a noob on towing.
How heavy is a car trailer with brake weigh? If I want to tow my sport car (weigh 1340kg exactly but I can strip more weigh) for 200km on Hume. Or even to Queensland next year for a National meet. Will Kluger be ok? I ordered a 4WD one.
Taka,
You may be in a bit of trouble, start looking for a towing hire car at a good price now.
Kluger 2000kg braked towing capacity.
Lightest car trailer I found, 12 x 6:
Gross 3000kg, trailer 850kg, payload 2150kg.
Therefore with your car 1340kg + 850kg = 2190kg: exceeding the Kluger capacity. You would need 2300kg braked towing capacity as a minimum, for some margin of safety (although you might get away with a Hilux at 2250kg).
You need to check the trailer coompliance plate for details of exact weights, but I think you need to look into something bigger to tow your combination.
BTW how many times have you seen guys towing their mates broken down car on a car trailer with just a sedan. I can’t see it being anywhere near legal.
I am interested in buying a Kluger Grande AWD. What is the best drive-away price one can expect in Melbourne? I can wait till Feb 08 for a ‘08 plated car.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Andrew M, sorry forgot to mention Novated lease. at the end of the lease, we can either buy the car or sell it and pay the residual. if we sell it for higher than the residual, we can keep the profit, and vice versa. so resale value is important. i will write my thoughts on the new kluger on the weekend.
First impression: the car looks very solid and planted on the road. due to resemblance with new Landcruiser, many perople do turn and look, i am sure its a compliment. Engine is smooth, plenty of power, very quite, and lots of goodies for the KX-R model itself. I am not in a position to compare it with Ford, but if you like this car or Toyota in general, you won’t be let down by the first impressions. more thoughts later.
Never leased a car that at the end of its lease was worth more than the residual, except I guess for the Cobra may well be. They always seem to be worth what the residual payout is.
Ive been leasing cars for 20 years!
I cant believe how big the new RAV 4 is, my trainer has just bought one and and old one was parked behind it, the size difference was huge.
litapajar,
what im saying is if you make a profit on the vehicle when you sell it you will be taxed on the profit.
Missile,
if you turn your vehicles pretty quickly you will never sell it for higher than the residual. thats why (well part of the reason why) they suggest turning them over every 3 yrs. if you keep it for longer the value will exceed the residual.
ive had my current one for 4yrs now and it is worth more as a trade for eg than what the ATO would have determined it to be worth. so if i sell it now for eg i would make around $3K on it if i traded it, meaning will be taxed on that. if i had of sold it when the 3yrs ticked over it would have been pretty much break even.
the longer i let it go the more i will make on it.
i really want to make it to see what the orion offers, if i cant make it i will not be disappointed with a good deal on a BF. (im sure they will be kicking into good deal run out time soon).
on another note why did ford release little details about the orion? it must be hurting their sales as people like myself were about to put the car buying shoes on and get the keys and then they saw there is possibly something a lot better coming out and then put the keys back on the table
A great car except for two minor changes
in the next update.
the 3rd row seat could have been split to allow storage of esky or cases on one side and a child on the other.
Secondly the middle seat in the second row could have been made to line up at the base with the other two captains chairs and be a bit more comfortable for a family with 3 kids if the rear is full of gear for a holiday making 3rd row unusable. otherwise it is very good
Hey I just did a google on the towing capacity of the Kluger and came to this page.30 mins later after reading all your “interesting” comments I have determined that yes it will be ok for towing my horse float (just under the magical 2000kg) BTW I just test drove the Kluger and was staggered at the std features and roominess. We have had a Prado for 10 years and since the family has ’shrunk’ wanted to downsize and I think it is Kluger for me- but I will miss the dual fuel tanks.
I own the previous model Kluger and have been pondering a changeover for the last 4 months. I have just today driven the new 3.6 Subaru Tribeca and the Mazda CX9. In addition I have driven the CX7 and the RAV4 V6. The Kluger 4×4 is equal heaviest with the CX9. 2040 Kilo range. My old Kluger weighed 1800. The Tribeca is 1880 and the RAV4 V6 1670. This is important if you want to replace a family wagon with a 4 wheel drive and not double your fuel bills. The front drive Kluger isn’t a 4×4 and the snow pictures at the top of this article are ridiculous. My 4X4 Kluger slipped so the front drive would have no traction in snow. The Kluger is very big and recent reviewers who have driven the 3.6 Subaru Tribeca and Mazda CX9 are now saying how vague the Kluger steering is. There is nothing new in that. What I wanted to say most here was that the car that really impressed me was the V6 RAV4 – and surprise, surprise, Toyota have withdrawn it from sale? Not a recall but what then? I think it was clear they could not meet demand and the vehicle is nearly the size of my old Kluger and has the new 3.5 motor. So Toyota thought, who will buy a Kluger for Christmas…Answer not me – after driving the RAV4 V6! The Kluger is now at the bottom of my shopping list
I ordered a Kluger end of November. KS-S AWD + front & rear sensor kits + sidesteps = $54K driveaway . My main requirement was to own a seven seater car than did not suck…
I initially test drove the Captiva, Santa Fe, Territory. At this point I was thinking of getting the Diesel Captiva (quoted early 40’s driveaway + ability to get serious discount with Altitude points).
Although I liked the Santa Fe, I could not mentally take the leap with the the Hyundai badge – resale being my main concern. For what I wanted in the territory (leather + 7 seats) it would have cost approx 66K driveaway. Then my neighbour suggested I give the new Kluger a go.
I test drove the 2WD & immediately liked *everything* about the car. Ironically ad I test drove the Kluger, I noticed a Captiva with 5 occupants – looked like they were stuck to the sides and roof & abou to to explode from being so compact. Standouts – space – just lots of it, Motor – quick & effortless, transmission – silky smooth changes & shares transmission with 90K lexus RX350. Safety; it’s got everything and then some (makes a nonsense of the other contenders). Tech – greatest feature is split system climate control & integarted bluetooth standard. At the end of the day easiest decision I have ever made. I even like the name – Kluger. The front looks mean – thought of getting the number plate “Freddy” – but then again no-one would get it ;-)
The new Kluger is the best affordable looking SUV on the market (people use to say that territory was the best seven seater SUV on the market, yeah right!) And is that steering wheel found in aurion and camry, it must be!
The CX-7 is not tough its gutless it has just has the looks!
Kluger was recently awared people mover of the year… so much for the Territory
Kluger a People Mover? – So does that mean Toy-yoda will be dropping the [over-priced] Tarago then?
Thats what I would have thought to Wheelnut? I thought thats the Taragos job!
Territory nothing?
1.The Ford Territory Ghia AWD has been judged as the Best Recreational 4WD in the 2005 Australia’s Best Cars Awards. This makes it a back to back win for Territory following the Territory TX AWD claiming this award in 2004. Importantly, winning successive awards in the same category is a great endorsement by automotive experts of Territory’s superb features and quality.
2.dCOTY 2006: Awards for excellence: Recreational car, Ford Territory
drive.com.au, 29/11/06
“Ford did its homework so thoroughly on the Territory’s interior that Australia’s toughest motoring critics were left literally speechless.”
3.Territory Wins Wheels Car of the Year
3 February, 2005
4.Territory taking out the Carsguide’s Star Car award. Great effort by Ford!2005
TP,
And what was eligible for the segment this year? Listed contenders were the Kluger, Mits Grandis & Honda Odyssey. Kinda degrading actually to have the 2WD Kluger only categorised as a people mover.
I didn’t notice the 4WD Kluger didn’t winning anything??
Kluger!!!!!!
You clowns haven’t got a clueGER do you. What a big chunk of shite!!
I think Big Gay Al drives one of those.
Had the new Kluger a week having got rid of a few kids and downsized from a prado. Having said that the only down size is in the motor. It certainly has more room with standard features that leave its expensive brother for dead.It has a very solid look and feel to it and tows a fully laden horse float with ease. A brilliant vehicle and the new model will certainly give the Territory a shake-up.
mmmmmmm…..maybe not though! Territory seems to stay on its wheels when road tested!