Car Advice

Corporate Structures – Who Owns Your Brand?

By John Cadogan |

In Australia, the top 10 car companies all spend upwards of $10 million annually trying to convince consumers that their brand is superior / more desirable than the competition. Yet on paper, many cars in competing categories are very similar. Beneath the skin, some notional competitors are almost identical.

Elsewhere in the corporate structure, car companies are trying to make their cars more similar – not less so. There’s an ongoing marketing challenge. Obvious reason, economics: one of the niftiest ways of improving the bottom line is to use parts from another, existing, car (or cars) in the next one (or ones). It saves them having to design, prototype, test, certify and produce new parts, obviously.

Take this one step further: why not produce the one engine designed to do the job (even with a few minor tweaks) across a range of cars? Makes sense. You can do it with technology, too. Everything you’ve already learned about crash safety or direct injection, or hi-tech manufacturing processes can be incorporated more easily in your next design than if you had to develop it all from scratch.

Ford_Fiesta_GGC_028

Then there are economies of scale – the more you produce, the cheaper each individual unit gets. Simple.

Final step: buy another car company and use, say, the engines from one across both, the crash technology from the other, run just one proving ground…

This is fundamentally why car companies own other car companies. Take Ford’s ownership of Volvo, which kicked off back in 1999. Did you ever wonder how it suddenly (this is a relative term) became a walk in the park for the Falcon to achieve a five-star safety rating?

It’s incest, automotive-style. And everyone’s doing it.

2010-mazda-3-istop-file-101

Until recently, Ford also owned 33.4 per cent of Mazda. (Today it owns only 13 per cent, thanks very much to the GFC.) The companies co-developed technology and then shared it. Park a Mazda3 next to a Volvo C30 and check them out closely. The reason they’re so similar isn’t a coincidence – they’re built on similar underpinnings and they share some fundamental engineering. This co-development arrangement appears to be on the rocks, however, in the aftermath of Ford’s lesser ownership position.

volvo_c30_electric_drivee_images_main

Volkswagen: The conglomerate has stated it will be the world’s largest automaker by 2018. (You have to admire that German confidence.) The company owns the following brands: Volkswagen (obviously) plus Audi, Skoda, Bentley, Lamborghini and … soon … Porsche. (The latter after an epic David V Goliath battle that would have gone the other way had Porsche been able to stump up the cash to exercise the options that would have given it control over Volkswagen.)

There’s a reason the Audi R8 has a 5.2-litre V10 with 386kW and 530Nm. It’s called the Lamborghini Gallardo… And behind the scenes, you’ve got Skoda manufacturing transmissions for Volkswagen, etc.

Volkswagen also just bought a 20 per cent stake in Suzuki for $US2.5 billion … as you do..

Fiat_500_Abarth_695_Tributo_Ferrari_01a

Mention ‘Fiat’ to your average punter in the street, and they think of the 500 – often the old one. The reality is quite different – Fiat is a massive, sprawling entity with an enviable garage and a history of dicing with bankruptcy. It owns Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and truck manufacturer Iveco. Thanks to the recent bail out of Chryser, Fiat also owns Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram – and the cross-pollination there is only just about to kick off (though rumours of the next-gen Viper sporting a Ferrari V12 in the manner of R8/Gallardo have been quashed).

General Motors, the world’s former number one vehicle manufacturer, amassed a stable of brands so heavy and ultimately unstable that they literally drowned the company, which declared itself bankrupt in 2009. Holden, obviously, is a GM brand. It’s joined by Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick and GMC. Saab is still hanging around GM’s post-bankruptcy neck like that pesky albatross (Spyker might buy it; bad luck for the Dutch if that sale goes ahead). But retired, RIP, are Saturn and Pontiac – the latter very bad news for Holden, which did a tidy export line in left-hand-drive Commodores dressed up as Pontiac G8s. And Hummer? It’s Chinese now – owned by a four-year-old manufacturer of cement mixer trucks and tow trucks with just 4300 employees, called the Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. Hummer should fit into the company’s product range nicely.

Bob Lutz: Pontiac G8 "too good to waste"

Daimler owns Mercedes-Benz, Maybach, smart, and the Freightliner and Sterling truck businesses. Renault and Nissan are joined at the hip.

Indian industro-conglomerate, Tata, progenitor of the world’s cheapest car, the two-cylinder Nano, also owns Land Rover and Jaguar – a fact often overlooked in Jaguar’s and Land Rover’s marketing communications. Fact is, Tata picked Jag and Land Rover up for a song ($1.7 billion Aussie dollars) when it bought both brands from Ford in 2008. Ford paid $US2.5 billion for Jaguar in 1989 and $US2.75 billion for Land Rover  (which it bought from BMW) in 2000. Despite the apparent discount, ongoing Brit-brand operational issues have placed Tata under immense financial pressure.

Hyundai owns Kia, which explains, for example, why the powertrains of the Santa Fe R 2.2 and the Sorento are so apparently … identical.

SantaFe-DrivingshotF3qu

Toyota owns Lexus (which explains why the Camry is so quiet and refined – couldn’t have a rough-around-edges platform under the Lexus GS). It also owns Daihatsu and truck maker Hino … as well as a 16.5 per cent stake in a company called Fuji Heavy Industries, which owns another brand you may have heard of – Subaru.

China, is just coming to the auto-incest party. In addition to the Hummer scenario above, Geely Automotive acquired Albury-based DSI (Drivetrain Systems International) when Aussie company, which is one of the world’s few remaining bespoke and independent auto trans manufacturers, foundered financially earlier this year. Geely also looks like being the frontrunner to purchase Volvo from Ford.

Volvo is the last remaining brand in Ford’s Premier Automotive Group quartet. (Jag and Land Rover went to Tata as noted, and Aston Martin went to  a consortium of two major investment houses based in Kuwait. The consortiums are led by David Richards of Prodrive fame and Dr Bez is the CEO of the company.)

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The reason Geely wants Volvo? Simple – Geely has six factories in China with a combined production capacity of about 300,000 units annually. What it really needs is the technology to underpin a rapid improvement in its product. It’s a lot cheaper – not to mention faster – to buy a company with all that technology in-house than it is to develop it in some new laboratory just outside Shanghai.

Volvo is both knee-deep in revolutionary technology, and an absolute bargain right now. In fact, Ford paid $US6.5 billion for Volvo back in 1999 (when the Premier Automotive Group still seemed like a good idea). Geely looks like buying it for ‘just’ a smidge over $US2 billion.

Incestuous global business, isn’t it?


 
  • Technofreak

    Musical chairs! :) great read, thanks for the update on where everyone is sitting at the moment…it’s getting hard to keep up at the moment….the music is getting too fast :D

  • Matthew

    The underlying question is whether the alleged “premium” brands suffer as a result of this? Key example is Volvo. Prior to Ford buying it, you knew you were buying an immensely safe vehicle before safety was trendy. Once Ford bought it and you knew the platforms were shared, the question is: is a Volvo as innovative and leading edge in safety now as it once was? And that question will be even more relevant once Volvo is owned by China Inc. Bottom line is I cannot trust Volvo any more.

    • DGS

      Proton owns Lotus. This does not mean the next Lotus Espirt will be a modified Rickshaw. Lotus still build hard core sports cars that seem to break the laws of physics when corners present themselves. Proton have let Lotus carry on, and if anything have added aditional funds for R&D and new models.

      In return Protons now days look pretty good and handle very well with design and refinement from Lotus. Such a pity they didn’t get Lotus to design them an engine to match. (if lotus is resposable for that 1.6, what happened? is there a trick to turn it into a performer?)

      The Chinese will be thinking along simular lines with Volvo. Volvo will keep being Volvo, and Geely will be a cheaper Volvo with differant badge.

    • mmmmmmm

      I agree that volvo is no longer a safety innovator and while still very safe cars, it is only on par with the mainstream now.
      Renault and Mercedes (of course) seem to be the leaders in safety today.

      • Shak

        Not really, i still belive Volvo are safer all round. Just because MB have been able to release more safety tech lately doesnt make them innovators. Volvo’s are still safer all round.

        • mmmmmmm

          sorry but i can’t agree with you.
          When you look past the stars and read the details of the crash testing volvos are on par with the euro fords and mazdas.
          new renaults and mercedes lift the safety standards in their classes.
          The new golf mark VI is also as safe or safer than any volvo.

          • Andrew M

            I think its more that everyone else has caught up.

            Volvo were always regarded as the pioneers in safety in a time where no one gave a stuff about safety or fuel economy.

            Now we are in today, all the other manufacturers had to jump on a safety rocket because it is such a hot topic.

            How much safer can Volvo get??

            I mean sure you can pick and pull the actual scoring and split hairs etc, but the basic safety levels are at a point where Volvo has been for quite some time.

            Everyone has really zero’d in on safety menaing Volvo is having to work harder. Dont confuse it as them having dropped off

          • mmmmmmm

            good points Andrew
            and I look forward to when volvo looses it ford constriction and step forward into an innovator role again and better deserve the prestige tag they seek

          • Andrew M

            Ford didnt restrict Volvo.
            If anything the Chinese will be the true restrictors to Volvo if the typical Chinese way seeps through them

            I suppose you are one who also thinks that Ford restricts Mazda???

          • mmmmmmm

            you suppose wrong

  • RD

    Woah! I knew there was a lot of co-owned and shared tech within the industry bit didn’t know it went this far! Not always a bad thing I guess.

    Great read thank guys!

  • YoLex

    Camry is based on Lexus ES (FWD) not GS (RWD)

  • Motorhead

    VW don’t own Rolls Royce automotive BMW do although it was a rather messy split & both thought they owned it at one stage, they do own Seat tho which you left of the list which are still sold in Europe.

    • Toyota Guru

      +1 Rolls is definitely a subsidiary of BMW. CA also forgot to mention Bugatti is owned by VW too. Scion is worth a mention for Toyota too, considering Toyota Australia are talking about bringing Scion cars here.

      • Safety First

        Again Scion is only a marketing move, not an idividual marque (not saying good or bad but read my explanation below why it is a different kettle of fish ;-) )

        • Mitch

          Cant see any explaination. What is the difference between a marketing exercise and marquee?

          • Safety First

            Marketing is where you grap one of your own products, tart it up a little and sell it at a premium or at a specific sector in an effort to increase your core market penetration… IE Toyota is open about LExus being it’s Premium brand and Scion is to gather the younger (none traditional) buyers…
            A Marque in context to the story, is an established (generally stand alone, at least at some stage) Brand that was Acquired by another brand…

        • Lee

          Scion is as much it’s own brand as Lexus is.

    • http://caradvice.com.au V DUBBED

      Motorhead your right bmw owns 100% of Rolls Royce , and they did leave out Seat, Bugatti,Scania, Man and zastava, 10 all up plus soon suzuki 11

    • http://www.caradvice.com.au/ John Cadogan

      Thanks guys for pointing that out. I got brain fade. You’re right – BMW definitely owns Rolls Royce. Thanks once again for keeping me on my toes. John Cadogan. (PS, I changed the story to reflect your corrections so everyone who reads it subsequently won’t get a bum steer.)

  • Andy

    Of the many recent Chinese buys, I reckon the Volvo one is the most logical and sound from a busines p.o.v. Geely’s quickly becoming the new Hyundai and Volvo’s techs and engineers can only push that development faster. But lets hope Geely doesnt forget Volvo.

  • Safety First

    Hmmm common knowledge to those who are really interested in the whole industry, not just cars. As for the question Matthew put forward, Volvo is still at the forefront of safety engineering, the difference now is that Ford’s products are up there as well.. The benefit for Volvo was they went from Stodgy designs that felt truck like to drive to being very very desirable (look at the thread on the S60 release). Same with Mazda and Ford, Mazda was down for the count when Ford bought into it and has fared very well over the last decade, well enough for it to almost go it alone again.

    Where these relationships fail is when someone like GM buys comapnies like Saab and Suzuki, takes the good bits and fails to give anything in return. GM took floor pans, Safety, Turbo and FWD expertise from Saab and left them without the funds to develope new products for almost a decade. Same with Suzuki, GM sold Suzuki’s as Holdens and Chevs and GEO’s throughout the late eighties and nineties, but even in (IIRC) 92 when Holden decided that the Swift (later Cino) was too old and out dated for it’s ise and switched to the European Corsa, GM left Suzuki playing with the same car for another 8 years. For these relationships to work they have to go both ways.

    Picking the story to pieces a bit though ;-)
    Toyota and Lexus are the same company. Sure they have different names but they don’t follow the line of the story in that Toyota didn’t buy an already existing company it simply started marketing some of it’s wares in a different manner. Unlike the others where they purchased established marques…
    You also forgot to mention that VWAG are also the proud owners of Seat, and they definately don’t own Rolls… Hence the seperation of Rolls and Bentley shapes and platforms. What about Renault owning Nissan??
    Also the other pieces such as Ford designing motors for Citroen & Peugeot? Citroen / Peugeot / Fiat sharing commercial vehicles? Holden / Ford Au / Toytota Au all making bits and pieces for each others Australian lines? GM US and Ford US co-designing six speed Auto Transmissions? Toyota Building Pontiacs and other GM products?
    If you delve right into the business it is alomost incredible to believe that they are all in opposition to each other such is the nature of back scratching, or (as the Author put it) incest that is the Automotive indstry

  • Baddass

    A very entertaining read John, but some of the info was a little obvious. Still, I can’t remember the last few companies owned by VW. The said they currently own nine, an they will own twelve in a couple of years, but I can only think of eight (Volkwagen, Skoda, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, Scania and Porsche.) Can some one help me out?

    • Revhed

      ..Seat

    • http://caradvice.com.au V DUBBED

      Yeah MAN trucks ,Zastava and seat and soon suzuki.

      • Myke

        Wasn’t Zastava bought out by Fiat?

  • Joseph

    Citroen also owns Peugot and dosen’t GM own part of Suzuki?

    • T

      No it’s the other way round. Citroën was bought by Peugeot SA (Société Anonyme) in the mid 70′s forming PSA Peugeot Citroën

    • Myke

      GM sold off their share in Suzuki, around the time they sold their shares in Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru), Isuzu and Fiat.

      • Frenchie

        Hey John, can you explain what the difference SAIC joint ventures do?
        I mean there is the SAIC Volkswagen Automotive, Shanghai General Motors Corporation, and SAIC-GM-Wuling Automotive.
        I know they make/import different vehicles but does SAIC share ideas between the three joint ventures?

  • Valet Dabess

    i thought toyota doesn’t own lexus. well that’s what people on here have been saying

    • Brad

      “Lexus is the luxury vehicle division of Japanese automaker Toyota Motor Corporation” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus

    • Shak

      It technically doesnt because it created the marque to give its vehicles a luxury flair. Its now become the “Luxury Arm” of ToMoCo

  • Paul

    Is Honda the only car company remaining that is not owned and has not bought anyone out?

    • Fasthonda

      It seems like it is.The only joint venture that I know of was the one with British Rover.
      They have had some association with Lotus over the years.It’s a shame they are not
      using the Honda engines in their Elise range of cars instead of the toyota ones.
      Honda has a philosophy that has proven difficult for other companies to follow;may explain the lack of takeovers and joint ventureships.
      Love or hate Honda,you can’t deny it has survived and thrived on it’s own.

      • Trump

        Thought honda currently supplied ariel with the atom engine. Small scale enough

      • Tim

        Along kinda with Subaru if you don’t count Fuji Heavy Industries and that Toyota thing. Impressive for such a small manufacturer.

        • Myke

          How is does that make Subaru independent? That is like saying Holden are independent if you don’t count General Motors. Subaru is a division of FHI, which GM had a stake in and now Toyota own shares in the company.

      • Captain Nemo

        Fasthonda
        I think Honda also shared cars with Isuzu in the mid 90s before the had the CRV they sold a rebadged Frontera & Trooper. I’m not 100% sure but i think the Frontera was called Passport and in return Isuzu sold Civics when they stopped making their own passenger cars.

  • joseph

    I’ve heard that most of the Jap utes are made in the same industrial complex in Thailand.

  • Shak

    I think Paul is correct. Honda is the only global player not to be owned by another company an has done pretty darn well on its own. Its VTEC tech and innovative interiors are known all over the world.

    • Matthew

      I concur that Honda has done well independently. So has the inventor of the motor car, the oldest car company in the world, Mercedes-Benz (Daimler), who is also independent. An incredible product range, from three cylinder turbo smart to bi-turbo V12s and everything in between (count the engine range next time you visit a Mercedes dealer). Plus trucks and buses.

      I understand Daimler bought Chrysler for a few years but that is no longer the case.

      • Shak

        As you stated, Daimler is an independent who owns Mercedes Benz not the other way round.

        • Matthew

          There is no differentiation between Daimler and Mercedes-Benz, they are not seperate entities but inexorably linked since 1886 when Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz invented the motor vehicle. It is not as if Daimler bought Mercedes-Benz.

          • Tinman

            Matthew, Daimler AG is the parent company under which MB is owned.

  • Sexythang

    i hope honda continues and i think they will do a fine job.

    lexus is toyota.

  • Underling

    Who owns Citroen?

    • MK

      Peugoet

      • Baddass

        Citroen and Peugeot are part of a small group called PSA, and neither owns the other.

  • AAA

    Tell us something we don’t know.

    A Falcon got from 3 star to 5 star because of Ford’s ownership of Volvo? Please…

  • RoFlmaTiC

    GM may own holden but the article should mention that Obama owns GM :p

    • Dennis

      You mean the American tax payers own GM. :)

    • Underling

      And the wall street bankers own him.

      • Lee

        They own whoever is in the Whitehouse, regardless of political party.

        • JEKYL & HYDE

          yes,and michael moore’s latest doco is worth a look.the u.s.a. is now at 12 trillion dollars of debt.”the rich keep getting richer,the poorer get the picture”…

    • LessQQ

      and China owns Congress

      who owns China?

  • Wheelnut

    Whoever owns Volvo: can you please build that cool looking mini-coupe pictured above – it looks a lot better than the C30; I’d have one

    • s5driver

      that’s just the face-lifted C30.

      • Wheelnut

        I thought so…. well that’s what the C-30 should have looked like

        • Safety First

          Actually that is the Hybrid / plug in C30 concept… Not an actual face lift (yet)

          • Gary

            Appart for th elogos it is essentially the same looking car as the facelift

            Just go to Volvo.co.uk to see what it will look like

  • Direct Injection

    GM Holden……the Obama car company……what a joke!! They keep telling us how Holden is Aussie…….NOTHING could be further from the truth!! The GM Commodore is mostly made of American parts and they are now fully owned by the Great Obama and his men……OUCH !!!!!

    • Shak

      Mate very few parts on the Commodore are American. And as for Holden “now” being American owned, i think your a bit behind the times, Holden have been american owned for almost fifty years. Holden is Aussie, just like Mercedes is German or Mazda is Japanese.

      • Golfschwein

        Quite agree, Shak. Holden is an Australian make.

        • Anthony Y

          “Holden” is a brand name to which General Motors has owned rights since about 1931. Holden’s Motor Body Builders Ltd (HMBB) was a company established by Edward Holden, among others, in South Australia in 1919. In the 1920s HMBB assembled motor bodies for each of General Motors and the Ford Motor Co. (until the latter commissioned its own plant in Geelong, Victoria). Edward Holden was the son of Henry Holden and the grandson of James Holden the latter of whom emigrated from England to South Australia in 1852. Soon after his arrival in South Australia, James Holden became the proprietor of a saddlery in Adelaide. Over time, that business grew and was expanded to encompass coach-work, upholstery and motor body building. Today’s GM Holden Ltd is as Australian as, well, Vegemite (which is owned by the American corporate giant Kraft Foods Inc). In the end, it is as simple as distinguishing between heritage or history of a brand, on one hand, and the ownership of it, on the other. If you take the view that despite Chinese ownership of the MG brand, new MG cars are British, or that despite Indian ownership of the Jaguar brand, new Jaguars are British then you may well say that despite 80 years of American ownership of the Holden brand, new Holden cars are Australian. To those who will say that the determinant of motoring nationality is the place of manufacture of a motor car, many FIAT cars must therefore be Polish, many Hondas must be Thai, some Mercedes-Benz cars are Egyptian and some BMW cars South African.

      • Tinman

        GM bought out Holden during the Great Depression.Circa 1931.
        The first Australian GMH in 1948 was Australian funded and designed for Australia at a time when most roads outside the cities were graded dirt.
        You can call the old Holdens crude and utalitarian, but they did the job they had to do admirably. A car by the people for the people.
        It took FoMoCo another 17 years to get the durability right, by which stage the roads had improved marginally.Bitumen was still a luxury.
        In terms of Holden having few American parts, well, that has varied from model to model because we don’t have a market large enough to justify total R&D as well as total manufacture. The Commodore will have componentry sourced from wherever it’s most cost efficient.
        If you took out the American content, you’d have to cut holes in the floor and do a Fred Flintstone, because you would be missing at least an engine and transmission.Both are built up of mostly American components.
        The Falcon has had the most Australian content for quite a while, with its engine produced locally from scratch, as well as Borg Warner/BTR transmission.
        This will change as Ford reduces costs and/or improves efficiency.
        At the end of the day, both cars are uniquely Australian, with the Falcon more refined and technologically advanced. The Falcon is in its 50th year.
        Please, before anybody starts beating their chest with blinding patriotism,both GMH and FoMoCo have given us a car industry and supported that industry(sometimes with Government/Our help), long after the rest of them packed up and went home.

        • Ad

          Tinman, Ford have only used nominal quantities of Borg Warner/BTR transmissions since the release of the FG Falcon, which uses a French 5 speed transmission (not sure of the brand) as standard and a German ZF 6 speed auto as an option. Aussie 4 speed restricted to utes, Territorys, Egas, wagons (?).

          Holden V8 engines are US (or Mexican) sourced, but the V6′s, although mostly US (Cadillac) designed, are assembled in Port Melbourne, Victoria, Australia and have significant design input from Holden (The Australian engines have totaly different tune to the US, with different and torque).

          Currently, when taking everything into consideration, I think you’ll find the local content of both the Commodore and Falcon are approx. equal, slightly higher in Falcon, but both quite low (about 30-50%).

          For another example, Holden use Aust. Bridgestone tyres on most models (for now), but Ford use Chinese Dunlop’s.

          Other than that, ageee.

  • Lee

    I’m surprised no one has given Vauxhall and Opel a mention, other GM brands.

  • Neo Utopia

    Many have predicted that the east will do allmost all the manufacturing of cars and other stuff for the western world, believe me I hope this is not so for a more equitable global autoscape. So as brands like Jaguar and Land/Range Rover are still made in England, unless those brands want to grow in other countries they will just survive in their home country only with foreign ownership.

  • Direct Injection

    Shak……how wrong you are. Where do the V8 engines and transmissions and electonics for these come from? America. You are behind the times mate……..I said GM Holden are now fully owned by the Obama government, they are not owned by GM at all. You better cath up on the news.lol They were bailed out by Obama to the tune of nearly 100 BILLION Dollars…….what a waste of taxpayers money.

    • David T

      And where do the V6 engines, sheetmetal stampings, plastic mouldings, seats, fittings and virtually every other component come from? Of course there’s some foreign content, but you’re a fool if you think the Commodore is anything but an Australian vehicle.

      Oh, and nobody’s disputing that Holden is a wholly-owned subsidiary of GM. As Shak pointed out, that’s been the case for well over half a century. Get with the times pal.

      • Shak

        Thank you for re instating my point. If Direct Injection could read he would know that. As i said a couple of components such as the V8 and gearboxes do come from foreign manufacturers, but MAJORITY of the components come from right here in good ‘ol OZ.

    • Golfschwein

      No, I’m afraid you’re very wrong there. Your argument on componentry falls apart at the outset. Almost every manufacturer uses stuff in their cars from different countries, such as Ford Australia’s 6 speed autos coming from France nyuk.

      The US Treasury has a 60% shareholding in GM. So what? Does make the Commodore American? Nope. Does it make Holden American? Plainly not. They’re an Australian car company. Are Rolls Royces German? No. Holden Calibras and Porsche Boxters used to be made in Finland. Crumbs! They must be Finnish, in your book.

      (finnished! nyuk nyuk! Geddit?) Golfschwein’s mad sense of humour schtreiks again, ja?

      • SteveH

        I thought the 5 speed autos in the Falcon’s were made in France while the 6 speed autos are the ZF model from Germany?

      • Tinman

        I get it! A Ford that is manufactured in Australia is Australian.
        A Porsche that is manufactured in Finland is German.
        Seems perfectly logical to me.

  • Shak

    Can someone please clarify something for me: Who owns Alfa Romeo and Volvo? and BTW who now owns Aston Martin?

    • Brad

      Alfa’s owned by Fiat and Volvo is owned by Ford. In 2007 Aston Martin “was purchased for £479 million (US$848 million) by a joint venture company, co-owned by Investment Dar and Adeem Investment of Kuwait and English businessman John Sinders. Ford retained a US$77 million stake in Aston Martin, valuing the company at US$925 million.”

      Thanks again Wikipedia =)

      • Shak

        I thought that Prodrive owned Aston Martin and that Geely now had possession of Volvo.

        • Brad

          Prodrive was involved in the buyout. They don’t solely own it though. As for Geely owning Volvo, looks like Ford still own it for the time being and Geely will take over sometime in 2010.

  • Direct Injection

    GM Commodore has very low percentage of locally made components, that is a cold hard fact. 60% share holding? wrong wrong wrong. The US Gov bailed out GM so they are only still going because of that so in reality the Gov OWNS them and now they have about 100 billion to pay back. Wont leave alot of money for future product development. So in reality Holden is owned by the American Gov because they are owned by GM which is wholly owned and in debt to the American Gov……..simple and plain. Oh and by the way…the V6 engine is not made here..it is assembled here from imported parts…..and it still isnt as good as it should be. GM spent all that money on the technology and came up with that? A 3 litre DI engine that is less economical in real world conditions that the great I6 4 LITRE…….WHAT A JOKE !!!!

    • Golfschwein

      No, I’m afraid you’re misinformed. It really is a 60% shareholding. The 3 litre V6 stacks up against all comers, in terms of power, torque and economy. Look it up yourself. The only fuel figure that matters on a comparitive basis is the official combined cycle. Otherwise, who’s pushing the pedal how hard, and where?

      • Shak

        Correct again Golfy, the 3.0 DI was not made out of nowhere, holden has been making it for a while now for other GM applications around the world. If you want to go on real world figures Direct Injection then i can acheive a better fuel figure than the falcon in my SS-V because i can drive it with a feather foot, but then again i can acheive worse results in my accord because i mash the pedal every time. The ADR81 cycle is what people look at when buying the car, simple fact.

        • Safety First

          Yeah but the only problem with this motor is that in all applications that have been tested, both here and in the states, the loss in power and drivability is not worth the supposed economy when compared to a similar engine. In fact the engine often put up against the 3.0 when it was released returned better or equal “Real Life” Fuel consumption. That engine btw was the 3.6Di engine. Check out it’s reports by Car & Driver etc in the yank offerings.

          • Bent 8 Brigade

            I haven’t read a single article anywhere complaining about lack of power or ‘drivability’ with the 3.0…quite the opposite.
            The ADR figure is not ‘supposed’ economy, it’s a verified figure by a government test, is it not”?

          • Safety First

            Bent 8 Brigade says:
            January 5, 2010 at 12:04 pm

            A I never said it was bad, in stand alone it quite nice but, as I said the slightly more expensive version gives better drivability and similar (if not better as in some models) economy……

          • Shak

            Yeah but you have to compare it in equivalent cars, such a large RWD sedans not some FWD mid sized cars. if you can compare it to vehicle of similar weights and dimensions then that is reasonable, but some midsizer that wieghs 1500kg’s is always going to be more fuel efficient with the same engine.

          • Safety First

            Shak says:
            January 5, 2010 at 1:13 pm
            The comparisons I’m talking about are using the SAME car but with the two engine options, same as we have here.. If had my computer at work I’d supply the link.

      • LessQQ

        I think you need to flip some business books Golfsweener.

        60% shares is majority shareholder and has CONTROLLING interests.

        CONTROLLING interests = decision to steer the company in any direction it wishes to & power to force GM to run business how they see fit.

        But then again, I shouldn’t dig you for being an employee your whole life.

        • Golfschwein

          I am actually self-employed, LessIQ. But you’ll never know what in. I retain the power, see? 60% is 60%. 100% is 100%. Source: Let’s Enjoy Mathematics!

    • Robin Graves

      Would any of you Commodore lovers actually buy a 3.0lt over a 3.6lt? I cant see why anyone would choose a smaller engine in a large car for very little benefit. I think it’s more of a marketing exercise “look at us we are addressing economy in large cars” Imagine the resale on a 3.0lt commodore, even the bogans wouldn’t want one second hand.

      • Golfschwein

        It’s not such a new concept, Robin, even in an Australian context. No Japanese or European family car has ever been routinely equipped with a 4 litre engine and Holden has a long history of 2.85, 3.0 (that’s a 186 in metric, by the way) and 3.3 litre sixes with a fraction of the SIDI 3.0′s power and torque. Over the years, we’ve had size, weight and bracket creep that’s fostered larger engines and now is as good a time as any to get over it.

        I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a SIDI in a Commodore International Sportwagon (heh heh, it’s that or a Falcon wagon with its AU door panels) if circumstances dictated that I needed to. Every write-up to date indicates that it’s a sweet engine that revs sonorously and goes hard. Does it truly matter that it doesn’t have as much torque as Ford’s 4 litre? With three quarters the capacity, why feign disappointment?

        • Shak

          Quiet right Golfy. i would happily drive away in a new International SIDI, or if i could at the moment go the whole hog and get the Caprice in V6, and yes with a little arm twisting you could get the Caprice in V6. The commdore engine is now world class, although the ‘box does let the side down a little. One thing that puzzles me is why Holden dont offer ZF boxes as options, even at $3000 people would option them.

          • Robin Graves

            But would you actively choose the 3.0 over the 3.6 – and why? The real world fuel use would be close, and the 3.6 has room to spare if you need to overtake etc. I dont see the point? They are both SIDI – I’m talking about the difference between 3.0 and 3.6

        • Robin Graves

          Thats why in the ’70s Valiant was king of the Aussie sixes. Have you ever had a look at the ports on a red motor? Compare them to a Valiant, Ford or Nissan six of the time – museum pieces.

          • Golfschwein

            It’s all about need and choice, Robin. My 1.9 tdi Golf doesn’t go as well as a 2 litre version, but it still has too much torque for a sleepy line of Perth drivers pootling at 53.65 km/h. And so on. MB and BMW have offered sixes of around 3 litre capacity since time began. If you want more, you can have more. You can make the choice. It’s a beautiful system.

        • Tinman

          Apparently, Commodore’s lower torque output did matter when a fuel consumption comparison against the Falcon was carried out around Mt Panorama for a thousand kilometers.
          I know it wasn’t to strict ADR guidelines because it had a hill and corners.
          The Commodore with its smaller engine was thirstier.

          • Golfschwein

            They couldn’t have made it more unscientific if they tried. The only test that matters is the official combined cycle. For direct comparisons’ sake, it’s all we have and it’s all we ever will have.

            Does anyone have a better idea?

          • Andrew M

            Yes Golfie,
            My idea is we all dont get our selves wound up about a particular cars fuel economy (ADR or real world) and concentrate on driving enjoyment.

          • Golfschwein

            Amen, Andrew M!

          • Robin Graves

            But thats the whole idea of the pointless 3.0lt option – fuel economy – or lack thereof. No-one is getting wound up, and you are right – its about the enjoyment, of not having to wring a harsh engine’s neck to get it to move up a hill with some people on board and the aircon going. I cant see who would go out of their way to option the 3.0lt to save 0.5lt/100km and have less power in reserve when you need it – and make the shocking resale value of a Commodore even worse. Why would somebody do that?

          • Golfschwein

            Robin, the 3 litre does 9.3l/100kms. Forget real world. Forget a posse of cars driving around Bathurst with no traffic lights until they drop.

            The official combined cycle is all…..we…….have. And the 3 litre car’s torque, power and economy mix trump every other engine within 500 cubic centimetres either side of 3 litres, except BMW’s.

            Oh, and whilst everyone’s fixated on ‘real world’…how many would bother emulating their car’s factory nought to 100 time. That’s probably difficult also, particularly with manuals.

  • Tinman

    I always thought that, they who write the cheques are the owners. As long as the cheques don’t bounce.

    • LessQQ

      they are.

      eg. GM has the power to sell off Holden at their discretion and Holden can’t do a thing about it.

  • David T

    If you could turn your armchair expertise into an actual job, you\’d surely be a millionaire by now.

  • Tinman

    Here’s another one from the armchair,
    Holden used to build motor vehicle bodies for Ford.

    • Muse

      And any other manufacturer who paid.
      My Dad’s 1934 Plymouth has a Holden body. They did a poor job too, constructing much of the frame out of wood – which made the car about 500 pounds heavier than the American all-steel versions.

      However this is prior to Holden making their own car.

      • Safety First

        Funny, lots of vehicles in those days were made out of wooden frames… they were actually better built than the early steel ones because the craftsmen they had were better skilled with wood than steel…

      • Tinman

        It’s a classic example of what the Australian Government calls,”Skills Shortage”

  • David T

    Sorry Tinman, I was talking to Direct Injection :p

    That’s an interesting factoid though.

  • Tinman

    I’ve always wondered.If Ford built the chassis/driveline and Holden built the body and trim, who’s badge should go on it.

    • Safety First

      Toyota’s :-P

      • Tinman

        Don’t laugh, you’re very close!

        • Safety First

          As I said above, they are quite inbred in Australia… not quite to that extent but there is a lot of cross polination going on….

          • Tinman

            Extreme patriotism breeds extreme ignorance and extreme contempt.
            Just look at Germany 70 odd years ago.

  • Tinman

    Early Toyotas used a copy of a Chevy 6 driveline/chassis and grafted a Chrysler looking body to it.
    The Japanese government then virtually closed the doors to all imports to help its baby grow,
    To this day they must still wet themselves laughing when they here those iconic words,”Level Playing Field”.
    Well bend over Japan, because here comes China.

  • Frenchie

    Will Chinese manufacturers become as clever as their Japanese counterparts or will they always be a manufacturer that can copy someone else design and/or produce it cheaply.

    • LessQQ

      I’m sure once they’ve reached the tip of the automotive industry and there’s nothing left to copy, they’ll spend their buttloads of $$$ and do the R&D themselves.

      Same as the Japs, who were the former #1 at copying others, and America before that.

      Likewise, India will probably be on the heels of China (maybe).

  • Tinman

    They will do what the Japanese and Koreans have done, but at a faster rate and much greater scale. The Chinese are already buying up companies for their R&D work.
    It’s interesting that at a time when the world is screamimg for environmental salvation, none of them have come up with an answer yet.
    I guess they’ll do what they have always done, wait for the Europeans to come up with the answer and then copy it.

  • ohreally

    I always wondered how GM last so long.

    Selling the same cars( with different badges/grilles/rims) as different brands proved it was a business model that couldn’t go on forever.

    I guess that was 1 of many why their share price fell from 300 to a dollar share!

    Check out their website and compare an optioned GM SUV with a Cadilac SUV.
    Why pay so much extra? many bought into the mirage

  • HyundaiSmoke

    The Big 8 (Toyota, VW, GM, Hyundai/KIA, Citroen/PSA, Ford, Renualt/Nissan, FIAT/Chrysler) control 90% of global production. The smaller Niche makes cant survive unless they are very very very very very very very very good Like BMW and Benz, the ones who are even just very Good like Honda and Mazda arent going to be able to make it with Big 8 Pressure. Look at Suzuki and Mitsu with their PSA and VW alliances.

    Holden was smart to get with GM early, very Early.

    In 5 years most if not all of the independent makes will be swallowed up by the big 8. Lotus/Proton can be a global force to reckon with but they have got to get Proton into the US market or buy Mazda. Mazda could be a good brand for Proton.

    In 10 years the big 8 will become the big 11 with TATA, Lotus/Proton, and Geely in the mix.

    In 20 years youll see some original big 8 mergers, watch.

    • LessQQ

      Wrong.

      Chinese/Indian car manufacturers produce a significant number (more than global 10%) of automobiles every year for their domestic market.

      If you’re talking about “global production” I believe India and China are part of our globe.

    • LessQQ

      Wrong again.

      Geely is nowhere near one of the largest Chinese car manufacturers in China, it’s only the most known outside of China because of its recent acquisition of ‘Volvo’.

      In 20 years time, it will be Chinese car manufacturers running the auto industry.

      Auto manufacturing is directly tied to a country’s standing in global GDP. Only the top GDP nations have large auto manufacturing capabilities. With China’s meteoric economic rise, the global atmosphere is in for huge shakeups.

  • http://www.halsed.com Darryl

    Great article – these things are so often overlooked.