Ford Attacks Holden over Korean cars
14 Aug, 2007
67 Comments 
Holden has so far escaped media outrage over importing cheap Korean cars, with the company’s small, medium and SUV vehicles directly sourced from GM Daewoo in Korea, Holden has managed to maintain their “Holden means a lot to Australia” image.
Being arch rivals, Ford Australia isn’t all too happy about this, having stayed true to their promise of well built and safe cars, Ford has refused to go down the Korean path. Ford Australia president Tom Gorman recently spoke out against Holden over the company’s Korean sourced vehicles.
“In a year that they have a whole new product and a bunch of Daewoos to push, their share is down by almost a full percentage point,” Mr Gorman said.
Currently Holden imports four Korean sourced vehicles, the Holden Barina, Captiva, Epica and Viva. Ford Australia currently only imports European sourced vehicles, a strategy that Holden’s ex-CEO Denny Mooney reversed for Holden in his early days on the job.
“…their (Holden) market share is still down significantly and a lot of that is off the back of their small-car portfolio not doing as well as you would have thought and frankly some of their other products.” Mr Gorman said.
Will the new Holden CEO Chris Gubbey change Holden’s strategy and revert back to European built Opels? Or has his previous occupation as Executive Vice President of Shanghai General Motors only warmed him up to Chinese cars?
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August 14th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Holden doesn’t use “Holden means a lot to Australia” anymore. New pitch relates to the slogan “Go”, which sounds rather stupid IMO.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
If Ford are smart with their marketing they will capitalise on this. If consumers are smart enough to listen to the smart marketing, that is.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Thats correct Myke, but they are still very smart in the way they advertise their cars, The Holden Captiva commercial uses “aussie built engine” as part of the marketing, whilst this is true, it does seem like an attempt at pushing the “Australian made” agenda onto a Korean car!
As for consumers being smart enough, I think Ford have been dismal with their advertising and capitalising and punishing Holden for their Korean cars.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Yes, I would agree with Ford. I’m sick of Daewoo cars. Ok, Korea builds some solid cars these days, but that’s with Hyundai/Kia. There’s a reason why Daewoo is behind both of these brands in its own country.
Furthermore, Holden are selling these cars on the badge only. The Daewoo Kalos sold terribly. Then Holden went and took the car, slapped a Holden badge on it, and that’s about all it did, and the car sells several times better.
Meanwhile, the price went up along with the new badge, as I remember you could get one close to $10,000 when Daewoo was running out stock before it stopped selling cars.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
That’s true alborz, but a lot of companies do the same thing. Ford make it appear asthough the Focus is European built. However it is only engineered in Europe.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Yes myke ford build their focus in South Africa and from 2011 in Aus, which i bet will be 10 times safer than any korean built Sh it. In five years time Holdens “GO” wont be “GO” ing any more if the Aus ppl catch on to their korean ways
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
“Holden means a lot to Australia” = HOLDEN’S SPOUTED COMMENT BEING FOOTBALLS MEATPIES KANGAROOS AND HOLDEN CARS…. Global diversified Daewoo Dished Out Crap with the magic wand of Mark Simcoe and Co flying the flag. Rememeber it is Holden who used this PR slogan about Australia and not Ford; and correct me if Iam wrong they never have spouted it before either!!! Maybe Holden is a Slowly Folding????
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
I cant beleive that there hasnt been an outcry, or an attempt to get the new Barina off our roads.
now, in these years of safe affordable cars, holden plunks this 2 out of 5 star crash rated tin can, onto the markets.
how many responsible adults ahev gone and helped their daughters get one, thinking that they are safer in these, than grandmas hand me down laser or astra??
Something needs to be said and said OUT LOUD!
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Ford is trying to appeal to the rascist anti Asian sentiment that used to exist in Australia
Fact is, people who think that way are dying out.. and so are people who buy LTDs and Fairlanes. Ford is desperate.
The Focus is made in South Africa. Ford exploits cheap labour in South Africa.
Ford South Africa looses 30% of its workforce to AIDS every year… assembly line workers at Ford in South Africa get paid much much less than their counterparts in Korea.
Who has the moral high ground now huh?
I guess it just depends how you spin it.
and Roberto, Its Mike Simcoe, not Mark Simcoe
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Mate Volkswagen,BMW,MERCEDES all use South Africa too.Doesn’t that show quality required not exploitation? So what does a Korean get paid over a South African. Whats Aids got to do with it?
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
I think the quality of the Daewoos will lift substantially over the next few years al la hyundai and holden is anticipating this, before long they will most probably have a near european car at a more affordable (and profitable) price.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Max, what are you smoking? Is someone racist because they prefer an Italian or German car?
Vote:There’s generally a strong link between the maturity of a given country’s car manufacturers, the technology they use and the quality of the cars they produce. They you need to consider that anything European designed has been regulated to death, so that the car is cleaner, safer, etc… Something that even 100% home grown efforts have difficulty achieving. Stick to the topic at hand because it’s hard to even follow the tangent you’ve gone with.
- DBP
August 14th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Death, if I could understand your attempt at English I would reply.
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I believe this is an old article. Don’t know why it’s re-appeared…
Vote:August 14th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
I’m a bit sick of the beating Ford has been getting from the media lately. Most of which is just the worst bits of what is a BIG plan by Ford. If people actually put all the “bad things” Ford has done in the past month into perspective, they wouldn’t look so bad…
Holden seem to duck and swerve around allot of this…
-Korean imports
-Billion dollar blunder
-$146 Million Loss
-3rd shift gone
It’s about time Holden got some shit for this… and I hope to see more of it.
I think it would have been smarter for Holden/GM to badge these cars as GM or some other global name… As much as I hate to say it, the name Holden is Australian, but Holden them self seem hell bent on destroying that…
soon we will see VB made imported from china, kangaroo’s that are just face painted monkeys and meat pies made from cat meat…
Daniel.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Epica has a plain-ugly rear, headlights that have well been pirated from a certain midsizer from Munich, and anemic V6 engines. Barina only gets 2 of 5 stars in safety and its 1.6 is no match to a Yaris 1.5.
Maybe Holden can bring in the likes of the Chevy Cobalt for the compact and Pontiac G6 for the medium car segment, which is way cooler than their Korean offerings.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 7:07 am
Well said Dan… spot on!!!
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 8:17 am
Holden used the excuse that cheaper daewoo sourced cars would bring bigger market share, profits and make Holden more competitive in AUS.
I’m yet to see the fruitsof this plan?
Market share has dropped over the past year and thats with a healthy dose of new ‘imports’ as well as the bread and butter VE in the mix, whixh should bring extra showroom traffic, therefore flow on sales to rest of Holdens range.
profits are no longer, granted that the VE developement costs play into this, as Ford AUs will lose money once the orion is released.
Holden is still being flogged by Toyota AUS for total market leadership, while it’s barely 3000 units ahead of Ford per month, while Ford itself will have a slew of fresh products over the next 10 months, the bread and butter orion included.
Yes Holden will be waiting for the new, better next gen daewoo products to arrive…but in the meantime Holdens brand reputation takes a dive and so far there is no massive benefit for Holden to sell such vehicles.
Holden what are you doing? Ford could overtake Holden as a more desirable western based auto maker, instead of being euqal as Holden and ford have traditionaly been.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 9:42 am
I have one word for Ford: Festiva.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Peter, let me give you a reality check!!! Holden in its PR blurb over and over and over and over on TV stated “HOLDEN MEANS A LOT TO AUSTRALIA” (this was recently to), whereas Ford have not stated that. Holden would of been smarter to do what it is under GM to lessen the impact of this fact. Peter you seem to have memory loss and eaten bread is soon forgotten… so do not forget this fact!
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Let me give you a reality check: I’m not a Holden fan. I think their despicable importation of crap, comparitively unsafe cars is a crime, especially when you look at how well the Corsa has been received in Europe.
My point, if you’d bothered to have a teeny think before assuming I was defending Holden, is that Ford has no right criticising Holden for a similar practice of theirs in the past. They imported the Festiva because it was cheap and cheerful but was in fact a rattly death trap and a cheap cast-off at that. Like the current Barina.
Gorman is attacking the practice of importing cheap rubbish to boost market share which is exactly what Ford did with the Festiva. I don’t have memory loss, I have a very good memory, thanks very much. :-)
I don’t take any notice of high-handed ‘Holden means a lot to Australia’ crap in the same way I won’t take that crap from Ford or from the current incumbent of guilt-trip advertising, Qantas. Marketing and reality are seldom bedfellows, I think we agree on that.
I also think you’ll find that just because Ford don’t say it in their advertising doesn’t mean they don’t attempt to trade on the goodwill generated by their local presence, which is outstanding in the sense that it employs a lot of people to make a lot of cars.
Let he who has no sin cast the first stone, etc. They’re both as bad as each other, although at least the Festiva was just one car rather than three ranges of Holden’s current line-up.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Peter, thanks for your response. I understand your point; but the fact is Holden spouted on about “HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA” and not Ford once irrespective whether Ford gets the Festiva. Holden even sells cars with a low safety rating (unsafe cars) to the public downunder from Korea… “HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA”. The only deal it is great for is Holden, as building cars out of Australia at lower overheads from spare parts bins means maximum $$$ back to Holden. My point is it is PR LIES by Holden. Actually it is 4 models they have for Aussie market; Barina, Captiva, Epica and Viva with more to come!
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Oh, did you have to remind me of the Viva? :-) I have to sleep at night!
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Regardless of whether you prefer Ford or Holden, based on my experience managing fleets with both brands, the reliability and residual value of both is equally average.
All brands are blurring the lines between where a vehicle is designed and built so savvy consumers need to decide whether they can continue to “trust” any brand.
There are a myriad of examples; some Volvos today are based on Fords, so is their safety as dramatic an improvement over other brands anymore? Does it matter that your Mercedes is made in South Africa, or it it more important that the engineering behind it can be trusted to save your life?
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Peter…
The point is does Ford sell the festiva anylonger, how long ago did they sell them and how many korean models did they sell…it certianly wasn’t most of Fords small car range.
The barina, viva and epica are nowhere near class leaders…they are average, yet some of them cost similar cash to better rivals…
Vote:I don’t see the big advantage of selling them so far.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
ADAM… spot on with your first throw of the dart. Dam well Bullseye!
MATTHEW… But it is the insight and knowledge of the car company that uses its wisdom to check that the car they source from whatever country meets there criteria and specifications. With Holden and Daewoo, not only that but they send over troops to co-run or manage it with Mike Simcoe and the first 4 models they have are mediocre or totally lacking in safety. Seems to me that all Holden are worried about there is maximum $ returned on production whilst ruling out inclusions for the sake of cost cutting. Well spoken at Holden “HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA” – a true Aussie icon playing on the worldstage in some foreign land to deliver cheaper cars to us! May Aussies have memories like an elephant and not forget this demise!!!
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Hey max power…i’m Asian…I buy Ford because I know that their European engineered cars are far superior to Daewoo filth.
I buy Ford euro enginereed cars because i know they’re made for driving, not just profits. Euro Engineered Fords are made for dynamics, safety, resale, looks, practicallity and respectability.
Ford made a mistake importing that Festiva from Korea before, but now they’ve taken notice and will soon bring more euro quality into the Aussie built and engineered Orion Falcon and updated Territory’s.
holden sells cheap koreans to make a quick buck to fund their billion dollar blunder…how many recalls were made on the vz commodore? hmmm…seems the korean influence is making its way into the aussie made commodore…
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Roberto…thank you.
John…
Vote:Well said and you prove the point that many average punters can still tell the difference.
I work in the auto industry and many average joes know the current small car range from Holden are average cheap performers.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
This is all about market share. Holden was hoping to get on the El Cheapo imports from Korea (Daewoo) which seem to have a lower saftey requirement than Australia or Europe. The strengh of a car will lie in its chassie design. What stands out with the Daewoo design is they have sub-standard chassies.
You know when Australia was first discovered the whites would give beads to the indigenous inhabitants. You know something shiney (looks good must be good). Of course it didn’t take long for the indigenous people to relise they had been had.
Maybe Holden looks upon the car buying public as the first explorers look upon the indigenous natives. LOOKS GOOD MUST BE GOOD.
Note as long as the chassie has been designed to meet high saftey standards then it doesn’t matter if it’s made be Daewoo in Korea of Ford in South Africa.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
TONY M… I understand your point, still simply a weak excuse as Daewoo taken over by GM with Aussie direct input with Mike Simcoe and other prominent people from Downunder that can upgrade or seek better chassis’s, my point is Holden is all out to sea with the spinnaker down and wind blowing bobbing standing still which means banking on maximum $ minimum change as they think “Why upgrade inclusions on cars when they will buy it” = NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
This equals a possible recipe for disaster with short term fix focussed on profits ahead of the bleeding obvious as this ‘Yes Minister’ mob think “WHY HAVE CHANGE, STEADY AS SHE GOES”
Holden folding in the ‘Land of the Rising Sun’???
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
John raises some great points which is not lost on the astute buyer
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
In order for Holden to survive they need to import small cars, and the cheapest way to do that is with cars built in Korea. The cars built there are so cheap that Holden can get a decent profit margin, and thus ensuring their survival as an Australian company (don’t discount the effect they have on the local economy, the amount of money and jobs they provide is quite significant)
So Korean production is all in all a more business savvy alternative to a european sourced car, or south african for that matter, if they can retain the brand image an value they currently posses. We shouldn’t be worried about the cars coming from Korea, some of the objections i am hearing are just plain racist, we should be concerned about the fact that these cars aren’t designed or engineered anywhere near Australia.
Holden, not GM, has a majority stake in Daewoo. So why don’t we have any input into the design or engineering of these cars? Holden should be producing high quality small cars in south Korea. Not only should there be good build quality, but good design, for some reason Holden is the only part of GM that does more than half a decent job in terms of design and engineeering. The fact that the VE commodore won an award for design is incredible for a member in the GM empire, where bean counters seem to rain on the designers parade.
Would it really be hard at all for Holden to design an Australian Astra? or an Australian Barina? or even designing and building the Torana that we saw a few years back? All of these cars would have ‘Aussie built engines’ and would have local design and engineering, except with the added benifit of producing them in Korea, using an economy of scale and low wages to provide not only people in Australia, but in korea and the US (the Pontiac- Holden defacto marrige?), with quality, well built, well engineered, well designed cars. I stress this last point possibly the hardest because if a car doesn’t drive fantastic, they can get away with it for a model year or two, if a car doesn’t look “Holden” it defames the brand value.
And with no brand value, we will see the death of Holden.
‘As the room came back into focus he saw the crystal ball slip out of his hand and roll across the room, to his a small weedy boy named Thomas Gorman…”
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
What i consider to be the biggest joke of all is that Holden promotes itself to be Australian but in reality it is as Australian or non-Australian as the other 3 local manufacters because inline with it’s competitors, Holden is 100% FOREIGN OWNED and has been for now in-excess of 50 years.
Holden promotes that the Commodore is Australian but in reality (with exception to the latest generation… VE) they have been nothing more then just remodelled/Australianised Opel designs that predominately have been powered by American drivetrains with the exception of only a few – Nissan L6 and the 5.0 V8 to name two. Explain… how that is more Australian then say the Falcon, Camry or the Magna/380 ??
Secondly, if they manufactuer vehicles for Australian conditions then explain why they haven’t been able (to date) to introduce a 4×4/workhorse that is as rugged, capable and durable compared to examples from Toyota or Nissan. As far as i’m concerned, REAL AUSTRALIA is the remote, unforgiving environment that our farmers, agricultalist, Heavy Industries and Mining Companies work endlessly and tirelessly of which supports the very backbone of our economy/culture yet do Holden vehicles dominate the landscape of these environments… NO THEY DO NOT but rather by companies like Toyota and Nissan.
Go and have a drink at the Birdsville Pub and what vehicle will you predomiately find… nOT A BLOODY HOLDEN THAT’S FOR SURE.
What about one of the most ionic historic undertakings in Australian history… the Snowy Mountain Scheme – where was Holden then ?? … i’ll tell ‘ya – no were to been seen – that’s for sure. Infact, Holden doesn’t even promote our very own national sport (AFL).
Apart from all of those non-australian involvements, history has proven for generations that there vehicles have predominately been of less then aceptable quality and often somewhat troublesome and now they are trying to flogg off Daewoo crap with examples rated with the poorest safety rating of all.
Yeah… Holden is real Australian… NOT !! They just like to PRETEND they are.
Vote:August 15th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Sounds like Tom Gorman as a bit of the sour grapes syndrome ’cause he can’t match Holden on price with his small cars.
Vote:Yes Holden might be down slightly in percent for the year, BUT, they are actually up in volume YTD, can’t say the same for Ford which is WAAAAY down on both for the year !!!!!!!!
Mitsubishi and Mazda are now closer to Ford in sales than Ford is to Holden, which is a worry.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Tom Gorman is the supposed one with Sour Grapes?
I don’t think so.
It is about time that someone made a stand against Holden. And I personally couldn’t think of anyone better then Tom Gorman to do it.
And as it is previously mentioned, Holden is only just infront of Ford in sales per month… As it has been for a long time now, Toyota is the leader in sales.
Oh, Ford USA own Mazda by the way, so if the sales for Mazda over here in AUS are high, then Ford AUS would be getting something out of it.
Even if what you had just stated “Sour Grapes” was true, it wouldn’t be much of an argument! Firstly one would expect Holden’s sales to be skyrocketing ahead of Ford in 2007. Being the whole VE Commodore/Epica… etc release late last year. But funly enough, Holden aren’t nearly as far in sales as what they would like.
And what Holden supporters and buyers need to realise preferably sooner then later, is that Holden has become spoilt rich kid; They don’t care what happens to other people as long as they get what they want.
This could be life threatening to some people. If you compared the safety features of any new Holden to any new Ford, there would be a massive difference and it would be in Ford’s favour.
Drive safely? Don’t buy a Holden then!
Vote:August 16th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Also, Ford is yet to renew 3/4 of its current vehicle range and yet market share is flat and profit/loss is not too bad…so Ford can only get better, correct?
Holden has renewed 3/4 of it’s range and has seen an increase of 2000 vehicles in one year! profits are no better, but its’ range has slipped for as an overall package, not better, while the competition have improved and moved on.
So what is the issue here then peoples?
Vote:August 16th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
i reckon the funniest thing is the fact that holden sells them on their badge. hey only 2yrs ago the actual daewoo company had to fold in australia because people figured out that the cars werent any good.
Vote:yet enter holden and put a little silver lion badge on it and well i swear the people they sell it to dont know it is a daewoo.
and funnier still is that when they were sold here as daewoos they were atleast $3,000 cheaper!!!!
August 16th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Andrew. M said
August 16 2007 @ 5:05 pm
…”yet enter Holden and put a little silver lion badge on it and well i swear the people they sell it to dont know it is a Daewoo.”
My friend recently told me that she bought a Holden Barina… I asked her what year it was and when she told me it was 07’, I told her that it was a just a re-badged Deawoo. She was not pleased at all. I feel sorry for her as she thought she was getting a quality product.
My brother is a mechanic who has worked with a few Karlos’s, he said they would have to be the worst thing he has ever worked on. While removing the tail light assembly which is a matter of two screws and a push to the inside of the hatch with your palm (which is common practice across most hatchback designed like this), his hand went straight through the lenses of the light assembly…
He said he feels sorry for the poor blokes at Holden dealerships who will have to service this crap.
Did anyone catch the storey on ACA/Today Tonight about the woman handing out lemons outside a Holden dealership? I didn’t get to see it but I was told about it… was this a Holdenwoo or Opelden Barina?
Holden say Mondeo won’t sell too well… well at least Ford have the dignity to sell a High quality product to Australians, If Holden meant so much to Australia and not just the share holders, maybe they would do the same…
Mondeo is a sexy car… give falcon that interior and were talkin :)
Dan.
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 7:58 am
It maybe true that Holden is selling these vehicles becuase it has a Holden badge on it but in time when these vehicles begin to age without any grace, then the true dignity of these vehicles will be relised and Holden will have to ’stand’ and suffer the consequences that they so-rightly should.
There are far superior porducts that can be purchased at either Ford, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and Mitsubishi then these dogged ‘Daewoo’ products from Holden.
What i appreciate about the more reputable Japanese brands is that they remain consistant with their range and don’t vary in quality/reliability between models of thier products. For example – no matter what vehicle you purchase at a Toyota dealership it will be a Toyota manufactuered car but at Holden then who knows… is it locally built, an Opel, Isuzu, Daewoo… what !! Infact, Holden has been so inconsistant over the years that they even utilised Vauxhalls, Suzuki’s, Toyota’s or even Nissan or Isuzu engines… basically, Holden is all over the place.
Infact, Holden doesn’t even have any REAL firm stability or corporate direction at all and this behaviour wil continue to dog Holden as-long as they remain so.
As far as i’m concerned, the Ford range is far superior to that of Holdens and certainly more stabile. I believe the ‘Orion’ Falcon will be fantastic car, while Mondeo will probably prove to be a very competant competitor against the established MEDIUM market unlike the Epica which is an absloute awful/spineless attempt from Holden. The Fiesta and Focus are great litlle cars with dignity about themselves while the Ranger and Territory would trump that ugly Rodeo and Captiva anyday of the week. My support is behind Ford to trump Holden in the years to follow.
HOLDEN IS A DOG OF A COMPANY AND IT BEATS ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE BUY THEM.
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 9:36 am
It doesn’t matter when Ford sold the Festiva, the fact is they did it, so chucking rocks at Holden when you were the pioneer of the Korean-crap practice is cheap and nasty behaviour.
The current Ford range is far better than the Holden offerings when it comes to the Viva/Barina/Fiesta comparison. It’s interesting to note that Holden brings in the rubbish when it can’t be bothered competing properly with Ford. I can’t believe they think that the Epica is going to do well against Mondeo – as in they have already waved the white flag.
The Territory gave Holden a fright and the Captiva was the next best thing (let’s forget the Adventra or whatever that Holden wagon thing was). Barina/Viva are not aimed at Fiesta/Focus, they’re aimed at Hyundai/Kia alternatives.
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Do any of you know anything about the subject your ranting about or do you all just hate HOLDEN ?
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Oh come on lets just have an opinion here and not feel hurt that your other half (HOLDEN) is spoken about?
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
THREE CHEERS FOR PETER!!! Right on
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Geepers, DINGO you are spot on too! DINGO HOWLS IT OUT FOR WHAT IT IS!
Vote:August 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
DINGO… gee yours is a top read and fairly factual.
Agree about that weird change Holden have now in there Rodeo range (the front headlights are too bizarre and angled up too much that ruined what was there with previous model the year before that makes it look shocking). Maybe Holden might on-ship Mike Simcoe and Co to other areas again like Vauxhall or Isuzu and change the worse designs that have crept in (not to mention useless designs and lack of safety features offered on the Daewoo-GM bed affair that is being dished up to us Downunder)! HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA???
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 3:35 am
I should say it’s more of “AUSTRALIA MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO HOLDEN.” By claiming they’re a legitimate company run downunder, people actually responded. What if they admitted the true nationalities of their cars? Would Aussies still buy them. Maybe Ford should start putting ‘Proudly Australian Made’ stickers in their Falcons and Territories then challenge Holden to do the same. Or maybe they’ll put ‘Made in Australia from imported ingredients?’
It’s been pointed out that they’ve been basing Commodores from Europe, with dated US pushrod technology bar the new 3.6 in the V6 VE, which is also by the way made Stateside, thereby deeming the new Commodore not fully Australian yet again.
To add insult to injury, they bring Korean lemons here. It’s a pity some people bought new Barinas without knowing where they really came from. They’re worse than Hyundais and Kias.
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Al Juraj… OK, my point is it would be different if when Daewoo was purchased by GM, that GM took over and then dragged Australian management over there under the GM umbrella, but Holden managing it on GM’s advice (CORRECT ME IF IAM WRONG). My concern here is that in the medium to long term it might work only if design and manufacture is decided totally without the beancounters interferring, but what annoys me it is at the expense of DOWNUNDER JOBS! “HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA” is an absolute joke and Holden might go in the quicksand as the market is changing with petrol prices forcing customers into a different market (i.e. Large car sales down lots and small to medium car growth is up and this is where the players are repositioning themselves with the new spunky hot Mondeo coming and the likes of the ex-Daewoo rubbish coming out). At the moment you can see with the ex-Daewoo cars that Holden have Commodorised the grille, lights have been improved both front and especially the back, but under the front headlights is still the same and until Holden go MUCH FURTHER WITH THE DESIGN & MANUFACTURE I feel this will come back and bite Holden as short term thinking! When I have spoken directly to people who own these cars… hmm not good comments!
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 11:42 am
ROBERTO… some of your comments seem quite sensible, but all of you should try to get some real facts about the automotive business and business in general before you post. I have spent 17 years in the motor industry,both in sales and marketing, 14 years with Vauxhall/Opel in the U.K. and the rest with Ford, Nissan and Mitsubishi in AUS, while i admit this dosent make me an expert it has given me a good insight into various motor companies and the way they work. G.M. have given Holden the responsibilty of overseeing the product design, development and engineering of future vehicles. this wont happen in 5 minuets, but will take millions of dollars and 5 or 6 years. Remember, Daewoo was bankrupt 4 or 5 years ago and this is reflected in the lack of current product development, think back to the Hyundai and Kia range of vehicles 6 or 7 years ago?
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
ROJEAN 1… Yours is a funny answer! Recalibrating suspension settings to be miles more compliant with conditions Downunder, changing front air intake at bottom of front bumper bars to be more trendy (current Barina, Viva are still typical pre-Daewoo days and look ugly, cheap, not much thought went into like Mr Bean designed it), not cost cutting on safety and inclusions does NOT take 5-6yrs to upgrade. After all Holden when it took over via GM did retool the front bonnet, grille, front light assembly, rear lights and the whole back of the car. This is an easy short term fix and NOT a case of throwing huge $$$ at it, rather the beancounters decided to offer a halfbaked change with extreme minimum outlay and fool the public. The jingle for Holden should be “HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO TAKE SHORTCUTS ON OURS CARS KOREA”
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
CARADVICE.COM.AU is a DOG of a wanna be website I dont know why people read it!
HMM – i bet my post will be deleted again..
I wonder why a post with “HOLDEN IS A DOG OF A COMPANY AND IT BEATS ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE BUY THEM.” didnt get deleted??
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Then why the hell are you posting on it Max Power if you hate the website so much?
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
ROJEAN 1 – Being a salesman does not make you totally knowledgeable. Nice wisdom, but I have a second business with salesmen, they are just a mouthpiece who say anything in a suit (I would not like to be one)!
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
MAX POWER… http://www.caradvice.com.au is great! It is easy to get trod on and be judged hard or whatever… Ease up on the testosterone and don’t be hard. Everyone’s on it like you say… UMMM whay as it is great mate! I like stirring people up to get more participation as everyone (mainly men) are a solid armchair critic and variety is the spice of life. Either join in and roll with it and laugh or GET OFF!
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
MAX POWER… There, there… come on you know you cannot resist this unreal CARADVICE.COM.AU website, it is great and I have had hassles!!!!! Hang in there cobber, there are pearler bonza stories that are just tops, she’ll be apples after you have a chuckle at some of the stuff dished out and the dialogue is intriging, funny and most times informative (if you dissect that persons support for a particular brand)!
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
ROBERTO- Thanks for your reply,but i was more than just a salesman for G.M. it gave me a great living and sent me around the world, also i was not just a mouthpiece in a suit, nore am i an apologist for G.M. or Holden. Cards on the table, yes i am a fan of G.M. but not to the extent that i dont recognize that other motor companies make great cars or that G.M. make some bad ones. Im am first to admit that i am not totally knowledable about the motor industry just that i had an insight into it!! I do however like to deal in facts before i post, which is more than can be said about some of the listings so here i go!!!
Vote:HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA… yes this is true, over 7,000 people directly employed by them ( not me, i work for a state government agency ),over 20,000 indirecty in South Australia alone, billions of export dollars earned for Australia each year, comunity programs supported by Holden in S.A. and Victoria worth hundreds of thousands each year. Like it or not Holden is an iconic Australian company, always has been, always will be.
Some of the post harp on and on about Holden importing vehicles from other companies, Vauhhall/Opel, or Daewoo or Isuzu and putting the Lion and Stone emblem on the grill to make them Holdens.This is not a new idea,all motor companines do it. Way back in the 1920s when the G.M. company was founded the decision was made to keep the individual divisions names,Chevorlet,Buick,Cadillac etc,this is why we have Vauxhall in the U.K. and Opel in Europe selling the same cars,its known as LOCAL MARKET ACCEPTANCE,Vauxhall has the stronger name in the U.K. as Opel has the stronger name in Europe. Back in the mid 1980s a study was carried out to test the proposal of a world wide corperate name ( G.M.C. i think )and had this proposal gone ahead it would have included Holden.The proposal was dropped because although local test groups knew Vauxhall, Opel, Holden are American owned the local name was prefered.Ford took a differant approach and renamed the local motor companies it purchased as did Toyota.Its interesting to remember that these postings started because of a comment made be Ford AUS president Tom Gorman, and the decision by Holden to import cars from Daewoo in Korea. Well Mr Gorman must have been out of the Ford corperate e-mail listing,or have a very short memory.4 or 5 years ago Ford spent a lot of money carrying out due dilligence on the purchase of the then bankrupt Daewoo motor Co only to pull out of the purchase at the last minuet when they discovered they were almost bankrupt themselfs. Had this purchse gone ahead then the Kalos, Lacetti,Epica and Captiva would be wearing the blue oval on their grills and Mr Gorman would be telling everybody how great these cars are and how can Holden make any money from the european imports they have??? but then again, this is the very same Tom Gorman that made huge criticisms to anyone who cared enough to listen when Holden launched the new VE Commodore with a space saver spare wheel as standard only to announce that the 2007 update Ford Falcon would also have a space saver spare due to market acceptance ( obviously nobody took any notice of poor old Tom in the first place).
Aparently Daewoo now have market leadership in the Korean market and also export more cars ( badged as Chevorlets, Buicks and Holdens ) than the other Korean manufactures, so while this is no excuse for bad cars they must be doing something right!!! not to bad for a company that almost went under just 4 or 5 years ago.
In my currant posistion i drive approx 30 to 40,000 kms around AUS a year and, while i see a lot of strange things on the side of the road, some things i do not see are dozens of Barina or Viva or Epica drivers dead next to or inside their cars after driving over a pothole at 30 kph. Nor do i see truck loads of Holden,s on the back of recovery trucks on their way back to dealers for repairs or customers in Holden dealerships with guns to their heads being forced to buy Barinas, Vivas, Epicas or Captiva,s. Holden has never tried to hide the fact these vehicles are made in Korea, nor as the local Australian motoring press or any of the various Australian motoring web sites. If i can find this information so can anyone else who cares to look.
And finally, as an ex Vauxhall/Opel man, i would love to see more of the european Corsa, Meriva, Zafira and Vectra models being sold as Holdens but it would appeare that they cost to much to be competitive in the Australian market, but remember this, the next generation of Kalos, Lacetti ( Viva )and Epica will be designed on the same platforms as the next generation Corsa, Astra and Vectra.
August 18th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
ROJEAN 1… Wow you bew me away with your talk of Holden being a iconic Australian brand, hmmm… You prepared a huge writeup, I come across public serpents, ummm are you one???
Vote:August 18th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
ROBERTO,…Thanks very much for your reply,this is the first time i have ever posted anywhere and yes i am a public servant ( never been called serpent before but plenty of other names HA HA HA ). Like i said, i like to deal in facts not B/S, all the best.
Vote:August 19th, 2007 at 7:16 am
ROJEAN 1… I also deal it facts and not BS as Iam a blue collar real worker.
1. Daewoo / Holdens badged as Chevrolets (for a public hardworking serpent you cannot spell) and Buicks puts a further spin on it. HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO ITSELF WITH BED PARTNERS CHEVROLET, BUICK, GM, OPEL, VAUXHALL, DAEWOO AND RELIES ON BEANCOUNTERS TO KEEP SAFETY OUT OF CARS FROM DAEWOO LAND… THIS MEANS A LITTLE DEAL FOR BANG FOR YOUR BUCKS FOR AUSTRALIA AND ROB SOME JOBS OUT OF AUSTRALIA… A TRUE BACKFLIP OF AN ICONIC AUSTRALIAN BRAND! PS: Remember Mr Hardworker, this is at the expense of Aussie jobs to some fair extent, and being a pontificating extremely Humphfrey of YES MINISTER you would know this is not good in the overall wellbeing of local jobs downunder. Holden gloat on this car manufacturing downunder with such status and fan fare that it has turned its back on it now as moving elsewhere. What has Ford done… no fanfare and hoopla on ads
2. Holden cannot produce an LPG only motor inhouse such as Ford. They have to send vehicle out of factory to get duel fuel (they still offer company full warranty of course).
3. Holden as so backwards in there rehashing European cars that the Opel still has the Z on steering wheel yet the Holden emblem on bonnet
4. Holden spent a massive amount (claimed over $1 billion on Kombidore) yet there motor is inferior to Falcon motor on smoothness and worse fuel economy
5. Holden does NOT even rate in the TOP 10 of motor vehicles for net worth (or whatever was up on car advice website) – with the likes of Hyundai above it HOLDEN NEVER EVEN MADE IT IN THE TOP 10
6. Take the Kombidore out of the range and HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA
7. Kombidore overkill from the likes of the Adventra, Avalanche, CV6, CV8 in the 4 wheel drive modes… they come and go with such quick time it is a joke.
8. You have to remember that the world does not centre around you and your words… and yes Iam a supporter of privitising public servants as I come across many overpaid and underperforming pontificating claimed hardworking people and I would not employ them to wrap fish and chips in Pauline Hanson’s fish and chip shop at Ipswich! I know people in your game and meetings they go to and long winded over work they do, I say and so do others… PERFORMANCE REVIEWS AND ANALYSIS!
So do not come bleating to me like you are above me or act like your Numero Uno!
Vote:August 19th, 2007 at 7:25 am
ROJEAN 1…
HOLDEN BEDPARTNERS ALSO SUZUKI, TOYOTA, ISUZU. Iam not disputing that Ford not same with Mazda, Jaguar and others, but it does not do as many backflips as Holden. I just loved the cars what came and went quick like Lexcen, Cruise, etc. Yes it took the history and smartness of Opel and Vauxhall to assist strongly with Holden.
What other Holden cars are produced Downunder????? Hmmm do not have to type too much on the keyboard for that one know do I? Yet it was the brains of Holden that came up with HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA and this is recent and not some 3+ years ago. So what did you do in the car industry, hope it was not write true ads like that one?????
Vote:August 19th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
ROBERTO…Good on you, my collar is blue too, so you can work out the job, excuse my spelling. you are obviously a passionate fan of Ford, im with Holden, so we can agree to disagree on that. As for my job with Vauxhall/Opel i did everything from parts delivery to demonstration/test driver at the Millbrook proving grounds ( used on TOP GEAR on S.B.S )and finished as a area field manager in fleet sales, hard work, long hours but i loved every minuet. Met a lot of good people as well, every bit as passionate about the cars they loved as you and me!!!did,nt think i was bleating though, just giving a reply, and if you new me you would know i never act as if im above anyone
Vote:August 19th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
ROJEAN, your OKAY mate!!! Cool your did test driving at the Millbrook proving grounds. I do like the look of the Commodore nevertheless. Tailights are tad bizarre, few issues with the drive & finish and motor uneconomical as. Ford you must admit slashed there wrists when some braindead designed the AU in 1998 and have bleed deep ever since as they rehashed the design too minimally and they should of put a bomb under it straightaway and redone it! Dare say they will be less obsolete as petrol prices bit hard on the public.
ROJEAN all I was doing was encouraging you to put your views up, do say more about your time in the industry. You must admit the saving grace for Holden has been Opel and Vauxhall. Did you know the VRX has no emblems inside to state HSV and no changes to inside as Holden thinks “OH SHE’LL DO”. A few badges stuck on car before it goes to car dealers for sale to the public. Oh and the obligatory sticker on the back window to cover up the slackness an HSV symbol above the words “I just want one”. As for the steering wheel, no they do not change that either as still have Opel thunderbolt symbol. The noise associated with HSV is a deep knarly exhaust resonance… not in this baby as fair bit reserved! As for problems with it its steering is only good and not exceptional and fancy NOT having a rear wheel drive… 177kw to front wheels equals torque steer issues. Holden should be more concerned about the detail. You think they would offer a sporty dialset in instrument cluster like found in Clubsport, etc… no detail again and even have sticker viewable in cluster that states “OPEL PERFORMANCE CENTRE”. Holden shaming its past by putting a HSV logo to this is a recipe for disaster as whilst a nice vehicle has sort of been not changed as Holden / HSV not concerned to change detail to continue the theme of how it does HSV cars! Derryn Hinch would say “SHAME, SHAME, SHAME” This happens regularly in industry and most do it!
Vote:August 19th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
ROBERTO…Thanks again for the reply,and spot on with the comments re Astra VXR, seems cheap not to replace the steering wheel center with the HSV logo or dialset,but,and i,m only guessing here, i think HSV are only importing some thing like 150 to 200 of these cars ( for now ) and i think that the steering wheel/dialset is model specific and not the same as the standard Holden Astra. As the steering wheel contains electrics for the SRS air bag etc it could have been a cost driven, or as you say just slacknees!!! your correct, happens regularly in the motor industry. I still have friends who work for Vauxhall in the U.K. and they tell me the next gen Astra has been designed to take 4×4/AWD so should be some car.Buy the way, last post from me for now, away with work for some time and then back to the U.K. for a long holiday. all the best and keep up the passion!!!
Vote:September 12th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
According to news briefs in recent issues of car magazines; the Chris Gubbey is looking at importing Opels instead of Daewoos because he says they’re better quality with similar features to their rivals [which also come from Europe]. better value and
theyre safer.
This means they would most likely sell more which would improve profits as well as restore Holdens image – which was ruined by his predecessor Denny Mooney who initiated the Daewoo plan
Mooney said it would cut costs and increase their profit margin. It hasn’t infact dealers have had to reduce prices of Barinas Vivas etc inorder to move stock thereby reducing/wiping out their profit.
Vote:Which is why I am glad to see Denny Mooney “Go”
September 12th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
I hope your right wheelnut, because I heard Holden was going to continue to sell Daewoos because they were profitable.
Vote:September 24th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Holden is just wasting their time again, if people r a fan of GM Holden good luck to them, but quality is the first thing that comes to my mind, holden lack so much of this ingredient they keep putting lion badge’s on Korean car’s scratching heads why everything about them falls apart, I mean if you are going to buy a Epica for instance you might as well buy a Hyundai or Kia, ouch, HOLDEN should keep the Epica behind closed doors before the doors come off. LOL…………… as for Ford Mondeo, most of us know now quality come’s before a cheap Holden and the Mondeo has truckloads it thats why Mondeo was in the latest James Bond Movie….
Vote:October 13th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
QUOTE = Dingo “It maybe true that Holden is selling these vehicles becuase it has a Holden badge on it but in time when these vehicles begin to age without any grace, then the true dignity of these vehicles will be relised and Holden will have to ’stand’ and suffer the consequences that they so-rightly should.
There are far superior porducts that can be purchased at either Ford, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and Mitsubishi then these dogged ‘Daewoo’ products from Holden.
What i appreciate about the more reputable Japanese brands is that they remain consistant with their range and don’t vary in quality/reliability between models of thier products. For example – no matter what vehicle you purchase at a Toyota dealership it will be a Toyota manufactuered car but at Holden then who knows… is it locally built, an Opel, Isuzu, Daewoo… what !! Infact, Holden has been so inconsistant over the years that they even utilised Vauxhalls, Suzuki’s, Toyota’s or even Nissan or Isuzu engines… basically, Holden is all over the place.
Infact, Holden doesn’t even have any REAL firm stability or corporate direction at all and this behaviour wil continue to dog Holden as-long as they remain so.
As far as i’m concerned, the Ford range is far superior to that of Holdens and certainly more stabile. I believe the ‘Orion’ Falcon will be fantastic car, while Mondeo will probably prove to be a very competant competitor against the established MEDIUM market unlike the Epica which is an absloute awful/spineless attempt from Holden. The Fiesta and Focus are great litlle cars with dignity about themselves while the Ranger and Territory would trump that ugly Rodeo and Captiva anyday of the week. My support is behind Ford to trump Holden in the years to follow.
HOLDEN IS A DOG OF A COMPANY AND IT BEATS ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE BUY THEM.”
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QUOTE = Peter “The current Ford range is far better than the Holden offerings when it comes to the Viva/Barina/Fiesta comparison. It’s interesting to note that Holden brings in the rubbish when it can’t be bothered competing properly with Ford. I can’t believe they think that the Epica is going to do well against Mondeo – as in they have already waved the white flag.
The Territory gave Holden a fright and the Captiva was the next best thing (let’s forget the Adventra or whatever that Holden wagon thing was). Barina/Viva are not aimed at Fiesta/Focus, they’re aimed at Hyundai/Kia alternatives.”
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I know some of this is over a month old, but I’m relatively new here. Some of this stuff is GOLD!!!!!
Vote:October 13th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
To clarify my position, VE is good stuff, maybe expected it to be 5 steps above BF instead of 1 step based on the billion dollars. Definitely better V8’s but crappy 6’s. Shame the small Oz market can’t justify upgrading the trusty I6 to EuroIV standards, because it is still the best cheap 6 around.
However, sourcing crappy, gutless, unsafe Daewoos is a quick-profit cop out. I’m sure they will improve in a few years, but then they have to overcome the damage already done. Hyundai and Kia have improved, but it took a long time. Holden’s small car reputation (when they were Opel) may suffer for years to come.
Friday 12th October Border Mail newspaper. A Wodonga woman killed in single car accident. Read a few more paragraphs, she was in a Viva.
Ford and Holden (and all others) makes mistakes and people love digging up the past. One that gave me a giggle tho was Holden bagging BA for being heavier, then here comes VE which has gained a lot of weight. Reason why the Alloytec V6 (which was reasonable in VZ form) suffers so badly in power/economy.
Vote: