The VE is a good car. In all the foreign reviews I’ve read, they’ve unanimously voted it as a good car. Sure they had to cut corners to get a good base car (no air-con in 2007? That’s just plain dumb) but having been in a few, it’s stacks ahead of it’s predecessor. Which isn’t to say toyota make bad cars. I just think that on the whole, their good value but while corolla’s are good and are selling up a storm, they’re consistently outperformed in reviews and yet the sales slaughter continues. I don’t think they deserve it.

However, with respect to the VE, it’s quality is reflected with the awards it’s winning in the middle east (it competed there irrespective of price and beat the GS 300 and the AWD V8 volvo) and the general concensus in most of the media, english and american included. You can’t claim bias there.

Dingo, are you really going to appreciate every engineering nuance incorporated into the lexus? Is it really going to matter on a day to day? How many degrees better does a car HAVE to be? Does holden invest as much or charge as much as lexus? Does it deserved to be respected as a good car irrespective? Is there always going to be hyperbole in any sectors marketing bullshit, I mea a corolla setting a town on fire or picking up chicks in hyundais??? And on the other hand have you taken a Senator, Caprice or Calais for a drive at all? Or would that sort of suck the wind out of your baseless attacks? For that matter, lexus or nothing? are you retarded? Audi RS8? Mercedes E55? Lecus may be good but to rate it as unequivocally better then any german is pretty brave.

The sooner people appreciate a decent car for what it is (by the way I also regard the FPV force 6 and F6 as another 2 of Australia’s great cars) the better. Especially when it’s designed and built here on the budget lexus appropriates to a glovebox. On the topic of the thread good on you holden/hsv. And as long as toyota keeps pumping out unispired fridges or overpriced, cynical V6 camries (it’s nothing more! get over it!) then I won’t respect it. Those TRD aurions are just that. Quick, quiet and comfortable but don’t pretend they could ever be anything more. Particularly (as more people are) if you’re into modifying cars.

Everyone talked the talk about buying the quality opel originates when they were in the market (old barina, astra) but in the end they voted with their money, saved themselves $500 and bought other, inferior cars. holden’s daewoo strategy – which to be honest I think will get the arse soon.

The corolla consistently does poorer then other cars in it’s segment but last I checked focus, astra, mazda 3, golf and so were all better cars. Toyota’s ust done a real job of forming a loyal buyer group that Holden used to have. Particularly the efficiency/quality/resale issue.

I do like the commodore. I own one and it’s a good car. But they should’ve stayed on the quality angle – it would have worked after a while

Every example you listed advertises the car without passing comment against it’s competitors (if my memory serves me correct.

However, Holden’s blunt advertising of the Statesman/Caprice/Grange passes DIRECT COMMENT stating that thier new luxury range is capable of challenging the world’s very best and like i said… no value or price bracket mentioned. Once again – if that’s how Holden so arrogantly wants to promote it’s new vehicles then that’s exactly how they will be judged… i am still waiting for comparisons up against the most expensive and honourable marques money can buy because they will be the World’s very best – LS460 or LS600hl first would be preferable.

With referance to your Opel/Daewoo comment above… it really does go to show how indecisive and unstable Holden really is struggling to find any real form outside of the ‘Large Car Market’. Holden has played ‘swapsies’ for many generations and have never really been able to stabilise its fleet. Besides, no OPEL ever did sell half aswell as any eqivalent Toyota.

You mention the Opel GT – whoppy bloody do… i would like to see Toyota introduce the new 3.5 V6 Blade but admittedly i am probably in La La land with that hopeful.

If you want a car to drive on the roof of a 20 storey building you should buy a Focus, Fiesta or Captiva!
If you want a car that will automatically form around you like a “transformer” you would buy a an Astra!
If you wanted a car do drive around a scalextric set youd buy and Falcon XR8!
If you wanted a car that can also ice skate you should buy a Citroen!
If you want a car that will gradually morph to change its appearance you should buy a BMW 5 series!

Is that Correct?

Under Denny Mooney; Holden decided to import the Daewoos instead of Opels purely based on cost due to the exchange rate. It cost less to import from Korea than Europe.. even though there wasn’t much difference.

However; the Daewoos aren’t selling as well as the Opels did. Therefore; inorder to shift stock dealers are having to slash prices which is reducing their initial savings.

It might cost a little more to import Opels but they would sell twice as fast/many as the Daewoos because of their specifications and better build quality.
Thereby reducing the cost per unit to a figure similar to that of the Daewoos.

I hope the rumours are true as it would not only restore Holdens image but we could possibly get the Opel GT

As Australians we should step back from our bias and look at the big picture.

Argueing about holden rules or toyota rules or ford should be left in the playground kiddies.

also if you toyota guys accuse ford and holden loyalists of being stupid and one eyed you are hypocrites! not having a go, but the toyota sucks directed at you guys is just as bad as the ford/holden sucks you are dishing aswell

You should stop smoking, really.