Long Wheel Base Mondeo Spied
July 31, 2007 by George Skentzos
If you want a decent impression of what the base model Falcon may look like, look no further than this long wheel base Ford Mondeo which was spied in China recently.
For a comparison, here is the Mondeo (above, obviously) and a spy shot of the up and coming Orion. Note the matching wheels?
Source: MotorAuthority via SoulImage.cn
Tags: Ford Mondeo
It looks very good. I hope the Falcon looks like this
Anyone have a clue what a long wheelbase Mondeo is, as apposed to the ‘normal ‘length Mondeo?
A China special?
Its hard to tell really but from what I see of the Mondeo it looks like crap and if the Falcon looks like that, Id be disappointed! I remember seeing the computer generated pics and it looked decent, same with the FPV computer generated pics… hopefully it doesnt share heaps in common with it (side on at least)
Paul, i reckon it looks alright quite aston martin’ish actually.
onething for sure it looks better than any of its competitors it will face.
Haha well its hard to tell with that shot… the areas I fault are the foglights that area of white looks huge and the tail lights from what I can see. More pics wouldve been nice.
Just give me the Mondeo LWB thanks. Don’t even want to look at the new Falcon.
Well Paul, if it’s not a white Camry, then it’s nothing :P
YES Iam a Ford fan and it annoys me at the crap models they have and it went pear shaped with crappy designs since the AU was released in 1998. About dam well time that Ford has a decent car in the stable to sell. Classic lines and yes agree it does look Aston Martinish! Go FORD!
Aston Martinish?
ROFL
Are you guys on drugs? Seriously?
It is the new Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne taxi.
It will look like a slightly modified version of what is running around right now… don’t expect any great revelations… it is an Australian Ford Falcon.
Think bread and butter average Joe general transport slightly tarted up to look ‘flash’.
A rational sense of perspective please….
….ROFL…. Aston Martin…. LOL….
Aston Martin! LOL, you guys need to have your eyes checked. This LWB Mondeo is ugly.
[quote by Myke]Well Paul, if it’s not a white Camry, then it’s nothing]
Totally agree. For a style leader i certainly wouldn’t be choosing Toyota.
Paul…search the net for new mondeo pics, there’s plenty out to view.
I’m no so sure that the current camry is a better looker than the new mondeo, quite a stretch that one!
The LWB Mondeo does look good, but its roof line looks more swept than the current disguised Falcon. But it does give me the feeling that the Mondeo would eventually replace the Falcon. Lets hope it joins the Focus as a locally mode model.
Mondeo is FWD so I don’t think it will ever replace the RWD Falcon.
And why when we are aready getting the Mondeo as a mid-sizer.
“Mondeo is FWD so I don’t think it will ever replace the RWD Falcon.”
Don’t be so sure, with half the large aussie sedans being FWD now. Its clear this argument will mean nothing if the Orion/Falcon doesn’t sell. Maybe if we’re lucky we’ll see an AWD Mondeo to entice us :)
Downsizing is the current market trend, with fuel constantly moving up, more and more buys will look to smaller cars. Its unfortunate, but the demise of the I6 engine is a serious wake-up call.
The Falcon/Territory platform is still one of the top sellers in this country.
There is a huge market and loyal base for the Aussie designed rear driver so I don’t think your right in suggesting a solid product like falcon could be dropped for a car that in the past failed to sell well here.
Look at the news from Ford regarding the future development of the shared Mustang and Falcon platforms and the new V6 in it’s desiel and alternative fuel variants – Falcons future looks bright.
Adam the current camry looks decent mate, you cant fault it on that… its just got a crappy engine (in terms of performance).
As for Falcon being dropped, I wouldnt be so confident Blue Blood, not within the next 10 years obviously because the inline will be around for a coupla more then the V6, so they ahve short term plans. But beyond that I think it will come under threat, I read an article about the Territory and the Falcon in which Fords Australias boss prity much said that their models which aernt selling as well as others are going to come into trouble, especially with the fuel issue and he didnt rule out the Falcon when asked if it was that.
Paul…
I’m not surprised you think the camry looks better. But in my opinion and i’m sure many others too, the camry is not a better looking car, at least you can buy a sedan, hatch and wagon, unlike camry…
not to mention turbo, 4cyl petrol and diesel.
I’ll go out on a limb here and also say the mondeo would have a more rigid body than camry too, oh and it will also have far better handling dynamics than camry…
As for falcon being dropped, if the market shifts away from large RWD 6 cyl cars, Ford is ready for the shift.
And as i have pointed out to you numerous times, the current falcon 6 speed drinks no more fuel than aurion and if you believe official fuel ratings the 4 cyl camry is not much, if at all better. would that mean that Aurion and the like face a similar fate as commodore and falcon?
I could only see the Camry as a decent car in Aurion form. I don’t like the Camry’s fugly front grill and lights combo. Camry and Aurion both share the stupid looking jagged cornered bootlid aswell.
Unfortunately Blue Blood, Tom Gorman doesn’t appear to share you enthusiasm. I was watching him on skynews business just last month, and he didn’t want to speculate on the future of the Falcon passed its next release.
“the current falcon 6 speed drinks no more fuel than aurion”.
I don’t have the ADR figures for the Falcon 6 speed to hand. But I doubt it would be better than the Aurions 9.9lt/100. If you have the figures please post.
lazy bones,
official fuel figures for falcon………
10.2L yep only .3L more (not worth mentioning)
The I6 going means nothing. it is the most powerfull 6cyl in my mind. it actually polutes less than the V6 competition and gives same fuel consumption all when sporting an extra .5L displacement and i think 100kgs
camry better looking?????? turn it up!!!!!
the first front on shots of this certainly do show a bit of aston martin. this profile shows a similar roof line too i think. i dont mean the DB9 aston that is at the top of page but other mods. mondeo seems to share the typical oval shape grill of aston
Lazybones, if I didn’t know better I’d think you want the Oz Ford to fail with the Falcon and it’s restructuring – have some faith in Aussie engenuity.
Tom Gorman is a CEO not a sales man.
“Lazybones, if I didn’t know better I’d think you want the Oz Ford to fail with the Falcon and it’s restructuring”
Far from it mate i’m just too much of a realist, I have good friends who work for Ford. So my concern is for their jobs not the car. You should be glad to know Ford may well be on my next car shopping list :)
“Tom Gorman is a CEO not a sales man.”
And who do you think the sales people report to?
“The I6 going means nothing”
Tell that to the 600 people who just lost their jobs, and the 1000’s who love that engine.
QUOTE = The I6 going means nothing. it is the most powerfull 6cyl in my mind.
200kw Aurion vs 190kw Falcon…. in terms of POWER. Maybe tunnel vision?
QUOTE = I’m not surprised you think the camry looks better.
Ummm to you Adam and Andrew.M… please did I say look better? I said you cant fault it on its looks, its decent in Sportivo guise, you deny this then I maddas well go talk to the wall, it would be more contructive.
QUOTE = it actually polutes less than the V6 competition and gives same fuel consumption all when sporting an extra .5L displacement and i think 100kgs
Haha ’sporting’ ummm they aernt things to brag about being heavier and larger… yet having less power. And you mentioned in another article that the Falcon has better emissions, I let it slide, but no you are wrong the Aurion gets 233g/km compared to Falcon 255g/km. Now I know you mentioned it back their based on engine size, but unlike torque you cant just relate this to engine size, there are other factors such as power output… more power generally more emissions. On this basis the Aurion is better. An example of how I can manipulate stats…at the end of the day its better 233 vs 255.
QUOTE = Unfortunately Blue Blood, Tom Gorman doesn’t appear to share you enthusiasm. I was watching him on skynews business just last month, and he didn’t want to speculate on the future of the Falcon passed its next release.
Exactly. I read an article at carsguide somehwere and he prity much said this summarised “We are happy with how models such as the Focus are going, market is swinging to them… we are going to have to reconsider larger models in the near future which aernt doing well with sales… Im not going to comment on which ones (When asked directly about Falcon and Territory)”.
Paul,
well get your facts right on the emmissions level first.
the falcon is 243g/km not 255
yes it is also related to diplacement. why do small cars emmitt less? cause they have smaller motors.
Paul,
i think you have tunnel vision in terms of power. dont believe the “power” figure alone. they put that one out there for the simple people to get excited about.
i clearly said power in terms of even when it is under load. so put 3 people in the back of a aurion and 3 in the back of a falcon and see which one notices it more. or even take the caravan away in the aurion and then the falcon and then we will see if you think the aurion is more “powerfull”
oh yeah and lazybones, dont be so lazy.
go and read that no one is getting fired and ford has actually created more positions than they are losing. and you betcha those people will get first go at the new ones
Awaiting your reply Andrew.M…. lets see what you spin up this time.
Hey Im going to even do a pre-emtive strike, Im guessing your going to go on about how you just mentioned which one notices it more, well again I have something against that. Now the Falcon has more torque then the Aurion, we all know that. But what else does it have? More weight. Now torque is pulling power, the more of it, the less you would notice additional weight. So lets see the amount of torque to the weight of the actual car:
Falcon = 1735 / 380 = 4.57Nm per Kg
Aurion = 1630 / 336 = 4.85Nm per kg
So based on this, again its no suprise the Aurion does the 100 under load at the same time. Now again I can tell what youd say after this, that the Aurion doesnt reach its peak torque as low as the Falcon, in facts it reaches it at something like 4400RPM. To this you have to realise that they mention PEAK torque, Ive seen the Aurions torque curve a while back and although peak is at 4400RPM it has something like 90% from just as low as the Falcon coupled with more power.
“go and read that no one is getting fired and ford has actually created more positions than they are losing”
Sounds good Andy, care to provide some links for us all to read? since that does contradict what was posted on caradvice.com.au. Alborz take note :)
“so put 3 people in the back of a aurion and 3 in the back of a falcon and see which one notices it more”
You have evidence to back up this claim, or is this pure speculation?
No reply paul?
The reality is the way Aurion and falcon work in the REAL wolrd suggests there is no overwhelming benefit to owning the aurion over falcon.
They appear to be lineball in positives and negatives, so the spin that you Paul and Toyota puts out, would appear not that true at all.
Me, myself would prefer the falcon, why? it’s better handling, bigger, still has more outright power and has a better auto trans mission.
The aurion is more refined, quieter, but this could change very much come Ford new 08 falcon.
Lazy bones…
Ford will be employing more people come 2011, then letting people go once the engine plant shuts down.
Sorry if this not clear to you considering the media releases that have been available to read.
They will hire 600 people for focus and then you have the extra employment for suppliers also.
Also, the falcon and commodore are bigger width wise than the Aurion, thats fact, you don’t believe that? look the specs up on Toyotas and Fords websites, i’m tired of having to provide proof to people who don’t know this information.
Paul, I had a go at you last time about the whole Prius vs Hummer thing, but you just made a fool of yourself again:
“Falcon = 1735 / 380 = 4.57Nm per Kg
Aurion = 1630 / 336 = 4.85Nm per kg”
Hilarious.. what you’ve worked out is kg/Nm not the other way, so you just showed the Falcon has more torque/kg (just under 1%, so pretty close I admit).
HOWEVER, add 500kg to the weights of each the cars (might be towing a trailer), and redo your calculations:
Falcon = 2235 / 380 = 5.88kg per Nm
Aurion = 2130 / 336 = 6.34kg per Nm
That’s an 8% difference, and demonstrates why a falcon is a much better under load than an Aurion. The Aurion is much more easily affected by an increase in load when compared to a Falcon. BTW I’m looking forward to you digging yourself out of this one!
Paul…
Want to have a good read of this article?
http://carsguide.news.com.au/
It appears your WRONG Paul…surprise…
Now if/when commodore/falcon become irelevant, aurion will be in the same boat…
Paul, I’m still waiting for that reply!! I’m guessing you’ve finally realised how stupid you were to comment on something you didn’t know anything about (AGAIN).
JBOT – The Falcon L6 engine is easily the best towing engine in any Australian manufactered vehicle so no arguement here from me.
However, the Falcon and Commodore are also the worst quality locally manufactuered vehicles and quality, reliability and dependability is a strength of Toyota’s that has consistantly and constantly trumped that of Holden and Ford for generations.
The Aurion to me is a very refined, smooth, quiet, quality car that is powerful yet frugal that also has respectable road manners and not doubt enough towing capability for most light – medium loads.
Yes the Falcon is a GREAT TOWER but those customers that tow heavy loads on a regular basis usually opt for a 4×4 instead of a passenger vehicle.
Remember that leaked Australian Quality Survey about 2/3 months ago… or have you conveniantly forgotten about that – well the Falcon was rated DEAD LAST with the Commodore a very close SECOND LAST while the Camry (what the Aurion is based on) was rated way up the list at second position behind the Maxima. Lets not also forget that the Aurion also bettered the new much overhyped VE in the latest round of NCAP testing so these strenghths WILL appeal to a market.
The biggest complaint of the Falcon is not it’s handling nor torquey engine but the fact that it’s quality and reliability is very poor compared to ALL of it’s competitors something that the Aurion TRUMPS the Falcon on. Being a Toyota – i reserve little doubt that the Aurion will prove to be an extremely RELIABLE, DEPENDABLE AND DURABALE family hack well suited for those who opt to purchase it.
If i was in the market for a large car, then it would defantly be the Aurion because of it’s values.
QUOTE = Paul, I had a go at you last time about the whole Prius vs Hummer thing, but you just made a fool of yourself again
I made a fool of myself ‘again’? Lets recap on the Prius vs Hummer argument again, for starters I agreed with you and was the one who eventually found a link conclusively proving mine and your point…. And then secondly I was the one who at the conclusion had people stating; “I would also like to thank you for your professional discussion Paul” while your attitude was far from professional, much like your last comment here which I will address further down. Go have another look if your memory is fading:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/37.....nds-prius/
QUOTE = HOWEVER, add 500kg to the weights of each the cars (might be towing a trailer), and redo your calculations:
Falcon = 2235 / 380 = 5.88kg per Nm
Aurion = 2130 / 336 = 6.34kg per Nm
That’s an 8% difference, and demonstrates why a falcon is a much better under load than an Aurion. The Aurion is much more easily affected by an increase in load when compared to a Falcon. BTW I’m looking forward to you digging yourself out of this one!
Now Im not sure if its selective quoting or whether you legitimately missed my previous link on this subject:
“Our testing showed that the Aurion was as quick as the XR6 with six-speed auto, matching the 9.5 seconds in our 0 to 100kmh test”
http://www.drive.com.au/Editor…..isonID=737
Now Im sure your wandering why the acceleration is so slow, because they used a real world example. If my memory serves me correctly, it was 4 adults in the car at th time and a full tank of petrol. So even if they are small men your talking about a total of 280kg (70×4) extra and 70kg or so of fuel which has had no effect at all on acceleration.
QUOTE = Paul…
Want to have a good read of this article?
http://carsguide.news.com.au/
It appears your WRONG Paul…surprise…
Please how am I wrong? Because I stated what has been reported… Fords boss was fueling speculation. Ever heard of the saying… don’t shoot the messenger? ;). Your own article posted reaffirms that I was hardly talking hot air
“Speculation grew when Ford Australia president Tom Gorman announced during a press conference, the decision to build Focus in Australia from 2011 giving the company the opportunity to “walk away from” less profitable segments.”
QUOTE = Paul, I’m still waiting for that reply!! I’m guessing you’ve finally realised how stupid you were to comment on something you didn’t know anything about (AGAIN).
You give yourself to much credit, I have been busy. Firstly I provided you previously and now for the second time with a conclusive example of the lack of difference between the Falcon and Aurion when it comes to flat out acceleration (Ease of towing I would say the Falcon has the Aurion… but as has been stated a million times if your towing your avg trailer or boat the Aurion can do it, maybe not so effortlessly, but its more then competent). Secondly you say “again” as I just stated in the Prius case I was the one who linked everyone to the answer where I was right in that the study was false in suggesting the Prius was worse then the Hummer environmentally.
Dingo, I don’t remember even saying that I thought the Falcon was the better car. Just wanted to point out that Paul was wrong in relation to towing…
Yes Jbot well Im waiting your reply still… you’ve hardly proved I was wrong in regards to towing. I wont deny the Falcon can tow alittle more and even with slightly more ease… but the whole issue is this idea that the Aurion would struggle, which given comparisons with the Falcon which is arguably the benchmark this is false. The Aurions 336Nm is more then enough to tow a boat or a trailer… the same applications as any Falcon owner would employ their vehicle for.
“Yes Jbot well Im waiting your reply still…”
???? This was your first reply to what I’ve said on this post!!
Also, when towing my boat (approx 750kg) there is certainly a noticable difference in the ease with which the Falcon tows when compared to a SV6 Commodore (which has similar torque to the Aurion).
Finally, the Aurion WOULD STRUGGLE under the loads the Falcon can tow (hence the 2300kg (falcon) to 1600kg (aurion) braked towing capacity). The Aurion would cope fine towing low loads or loading up the boot, however its fuel economy would be more affected than that of the falcon (this is one reason why a lot of people find the aurion fuel economy to be similar to the falcons in real world conditions).
Paul,
1. for your information i got the co2 figures from red book the same place you supposively got yours and its also interesting that from red book even though you keep calling it 380nm its actually 383nm so dont critisize my facts when it appears you are the one in the wrong….check it out…..and this is from your source…..
http://www.redbookasiapacific......y=TOYO06KM
2. you have not gotten me on torque. i still maintain you dont know about torque. how do you say the aurion is just as adequate to tow a caravan or boat or whatever? HOW DO YOU KNOW? ok then how come toyota admits the aurion can tow 700kgs less than the falcon?
#1.HAVE YOU EVER TOWED ANYTHING (YES OR NO)
#2.HAVE YOU EVER TOWED AT LEAST 3/4 TON (YES OR NO)
if you answer no to either of those questions then not another word about torque from you. you see you derive your comments from text books assuming they are right without ever experiencing it in the real world
3. i couldnt be bothered navigating around so could you please point out where it says they test cars with people in the back (not doubting you just curious) any way all this proves is that the extra 10kw that toyota (and yourself) sprook about doesnt look like its there
4.oh yeah i love your pre-emtive strike too. did you forget you were in the kamakizie squad? hey i wouldnt rub it in but the way that you always go “in your face” with that sort of stuff must have embarrased yourself? hey?
lazy bones,
do you really want me to post links to the articles? Really? really really?
well ill find them but it might embarass you so just say the word and i shall share them with you.
maybe you should stop reading headlines and read the full body of the articles and other related articles and not just the “breaking news” ones. how about you go back to the first breaking news article and see how many people complained the article as a load of rubbish (your mate alborz will back me up there) and then ask me for some guidence to the “truth articles”
hey that ought to get rid of that stupid smiley face you posted at me.
Dingo, just a couple of notes, of course the falcon and commy would be the worst of the locals because they are the only locals (apart from mitsu and the newer mod toyotas)
the aurion isnt tested yet and the previous camrys quality wasnt that great either and i can tell you that first hand as there was 2 of those in the family with 1 being the sportivo variant the other the altise. also the toyotas always used to be a hell of a lot dearer to fix dont know if they still are though to be fair. (like hondas too)
also i wouldnt say most people that tow use a 4×4 either. i do see a lot of fairmonts and falcon utes towing.
i have a falcon ute and tow about a ton behind me every single day. my mate has a brand spanker toyota hilux 4×4TDI for the same application and i can say mine tows just a bit better than his when it comes to hills. needless to say the 2.4L hilux he had before that needed lower than 1st gear to get up hills.
jbot – show me were i said the Aurion is a better car.
Also… in the REAL WORLD – one of the most often complaints directed at the Falcon is it’s heavy fuel consumption. I very close mate of mine and his wife are die hard Ford loyalists but just recently sold thier Falcon because it drank like a moose. Regardless, the Aurion will often be a more frugal vehicle to own.
I posted above at August 5 2007 @ 4:54 pm. I have no doubt the Aurion would have to work harder, it does have less torque, its peak is higher and yes its rated lower… but as the links I have showed demonstrate under the conditions most if not all people would encounter (small trailers, medium sized boats) the Aurion can still handle them. I know this because my family has had many boats… ages back we use to tow a 700kg or so fibreglass boat with a crappy Pintara which has a wopping 160Nm and more recently we have towed a 800kg tiny with a 95 Falcon which yes is a step up however looking at its specs only has 20Nm or so more then the Aurion and 40kw less! But seriously quoting maximum loads you dont think the Falcon would struggle big time lugging around 2300kg!!! And that kinda of weight is caravan territory, in which case youd be crazy not to use a Diesel not to mention 4WD. The point, for practical purposes… not a massive difference between the Aurion and Falcon in terms of what they can tow comfortably.
How many times does it have to be said??
The aurion drinks as much as a falcon in the real world…
Paul did you get a chance to read the link i posted above which contradicted what you said??
Paul when are also going to learn you don’t just look at power and torque figures, you look at how/when the power/torque is produced…
I’m dying to see Toyota produce a RWD car equivalent to a falcon or commodore, just to see if Toyota could REALLY match them…i have a feeling they would produce a less efficient class contender, maybe thats why they don’t?
QUOTE = Paul did you get a chance to read the link i posted above which contradicted what you said??
Yes I posted a reply, for some reason people cant see it… here is what I said in regarsd to your article:
“Please how am I wrong? Because I stated what has been reported… Fords boss was fueling speculation. Ever heard of the saying… don’t shoot the messenger? Your own article posted reaffirms that I was hardly talking hot air
“Speculation grew when Ford Australia president Tom Gorman announced during a press conference, the decision to build Focus in Australia from 2011 giving the company the opportunity to “walk away from” less profitable segments.””
QUOTE = Paul when are also going to learn you don’t just look at power and torque figures, you look at how/when the power/torque is produced…
Yes I know mate… your giving me a headache!!! Way above I posted a link about a practical test, loaded Falcon vs loaded Aurion (4 adults and a full fuel trank… so your talking about at the very least 300kg or so of extra weight)…. both acclerate in the same times. So the Aurion really must struggle…
QUOTE = I’m dying to see Toyota produce a RWD car equivalent to a falcon or commodore, just to see if Toyota could REALLY match them…i have a feeling they would produce a less efficient class contender, maybe thats why they don’t?
And you base this on what? The Aurion has a derivative of a top 10 engine of the year. Lexus have a RWD platform that can hardly be faulted. Somehow I think they would be far better, you cant really do any worse then the VE Commodore and the Falcon isnt all that great.
Paul…jeez you can spin, you studying journalism?
Yes, speculation…you used this speculation to support your argument that Falcon/commodore are on there last legs…you took one article and used it as an example to support your irelevant argument. like i have done in kind reply…
You know this.
here we go again…Lexus…wake up! and i’m giving u a headache??
Lexus is a jag, BMW etc competitor…god that yet?? NOT a falcon/commodore.
Also, Lexus still can’t make a Lexus RWd platform outhandle it’s primary compeition!
Now, let me say this once more…falcon/commodore RWD platform is the best handling/value for money platform that you can get anywhere in the world.
Without the use of a world adapted platform…
As for Lexus based eingine in aurion…yeah your right…pity it can’t outdo Ford outdated inline 6 engine or trans mission, how i remind you lexus uses an inferior auto compared to the ZF unit…so either you can build Toyota models up by relating them to lexus or you can dumb lexus down by relating them to toyotas…which is it?
Hahahah Aurion/Lexus engine is inferior to the I6. Was the Falcons I6 voted Wards Top 10 engines? NO. So stop YOUR speculating. As for the transmission, the 6 speed found in the Aurion and Lexus is quite good, sure the ZF is slightly better but you can hardly fault it.
As for relating to Lexus, my point was if you werent so thick to look beyond it, is that Toyota is smarter… RWD is inferior to FWD for normal applications. As Im sure your aware now it is a less efficient platform. That is why they have differentiated your affordable Aurion in FWD to your sportier Lexus with RWD (which consumers demand because of its performance orientated perceptions). And really I dont know why I get lured into this, who gives a flying fark about your assumptions if the Aurion is RWD, fact is in FWD its a class leader taking out the large car of the year award by NRMA & Co.
Oh you dodged using the speculation article…how about you start using some facts and real world info, instead speculation.
umm no Paul the aurion engine can’t outdo the inline 6 engine completely…Wards awards use engines on sale worldwide! hence you would never find the inlin 6 in Wards…
No need to speculate…the real world use proves it.
Oh, the ZF is better, but not much…so it’s not as good? correct? my god Ford using a world class auto!?
whats going on! it should be Toyota right? WRONG! they use asin autos, cheaper.
RWD is NOT inferior to FWD in Aussie conditions, do you think Toyota AUS would use a RWD platform if they could? u betcha!
RWD can be tuned for finer handling dynamics than FWD.
lexus uses RWD as they have to compete with, what for it…BMW, MERC, NOT ford and holden…gasp.
They tried FWD and failed.
performance orientated perceptions!? my god…i’ve heard it all.
Even Infiniti, a division of Nissan uses RWD, like mazda RX8 etc, why Paul? or an MX5…are they just sports orientated through perception?? do tell old wise one…
an award by NRMA? thats NSW right? not national twit!
and co? who exactly?
ever wonder why the elctronic nanies are set so low for trigger in Toyotas? becasue there basic vehicle dynamics suck! a bigger heavier ford territory can outhandle safely a kluger…
when Toyota can make either a RWD or FWD car handle, which ties in with safety, let me know and i’ll be the first to buy the best car from the best manufacturer in the world…
when you stop replying i take it u have the answers your after.
paul,
you are just a “text book know all” i think you need to live a bit before you can offer your heartfelt assumptions. if you cant google it or wiki it you are stuffed.
did you check out that link i gave you to find that even when we pull the facts from the same source you are still wrong? anyway red book isnt gospel. they are a GUIDE and do no testing of their own. so even if i did get my facts from ford they would hold a little more weight. i can actually point out a factual error in redbook if you like.
you say it all when you say the aurions V6 is a derivitive, meaning not actually on the list.
adam said my next bit when he said the list comes from world wide available engines. australia is never considered in those sort of things.
dont start on the I6 again either, or if you do could you please start with a list of black and white advantages that the Aurion V6 has over the falcon I6……
ok paul if the FWD is so much more efficient how come we are not seeing it?
oh yeah could you point out where it says they test 0-100 times with 4 adults in the car (not having a go im just curious)
My PC is down and Im not in an ideal location to type up a length reply, for now all Im going to say there are a million things which I intend to pick up on from your posts. As a teaser, Adam mate you talk about speculation yet your the one who is saying a RWD Aurion would be inferior to a Falcon, speculation? Honestly only one word comes to mind, idiot. As for Andrew, yes I do rely on other materials, tell me how does an engineer learn his job? Or a mechanic? This may come as a suprise but educated people learn from other sources. And to both of you mentioning real world, obviously you’ve neglected the link I posted in regards to Torque, there is a real world… no difference. Meanwhile all I hear form you guys is anything but realworld or researched facts…”Its better cos I say it is”. Very credible.
Adam…
I provided what Fords Boss said, he created speculation, I was just the messenger.
As for Wards, fact is the inline hasnt come in the top 10… if it was such a great unit it would be considered for world wide production. It isnt.
FWD argument, no, FWD is more efficient and above all understeer is regarded as easier to handle then oversteer for your average driver.
As for electronics, no they are set lower because their market isnt reckless drivers. The IS350 on the other hand and no doubt those performance orientated Lexus’ coming to Aus soon have a stability control system called ‘Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management’, essentially it gives the driver more ability and is regarded by some as one of the best systems going around.
As for safety and all, yes and when Ford and Holden offer the refinment, quality and reliability of Toyota I will consider them. Im thinking this is going to take a long time however.
Andrew…
As I said generally you gain knowledge by reading.
Stop thinking fuel efficiency. FWD is more efficient… you have less in the drivetrain. So the power from the engine gets to the wheels via less. You think this isnt as efficient? Hopefully you have some common sense.
I have nothing to hide… it was under the Fords review:
“In Drive’s acceleration test (unlike enthusiast magazines, which try to extract the best figures possible from a car, we like to find the real world, worst-case scenario) with four people on board and up a slight hill, the XR6 went from a standstill to 100kmh in 9.5 seconds, a full second quicker than the Commodore SV6.”
So yeah it was also up an inline, so more load…. yet same acceleration as the Aurion. Still saying the Falcon vs Aurion has a “huge” difference under load?
paul,
isnt the IS350 RWD? so how does that help the FWD argument?
with the RWD FWD thing, paul have you ever driven some go carts? if you have you would realise the benifit of RWD when conering and how much you can control the car with some rear wheel throttle.
i still want to know how you conclude the FWD is more efficient. fair enough to say it works in theory but the falcon V aurion proves it is no more efficient. ok so the aurion has 10kw more, weighs less and has the most efficient drive system (meaning you lose less at the wheels)
so please forgive me for questioning why the aurion doesnt absolutly smash the falcon in time trials and nor does it return better fuel figures.
also with the I6, the list of engines is from world wide available engines so get over it. also if the aurion is a derivative of one that is on the list it means it is also not on the list
also i deal with engineers quite a bit, and i can tell you they have no commonsence as they never get to implicate their text book oriented designs them selves. they rely too much on formulas.
give me practical knowledge over text book knowledge any day. i continually find faults and impossibilities with the work of such designers and engineers.
also a mechanic and engineer learn in totally different ways. as i highlighted the mechanic learns practically and the engineer learns through text books.
and also a lot of text books used to train are a fair bit out of date, but only the practically trained would pick up on it whereas the textbook trained are told to take it as gospel cause they dont know or learn any better
Haha hilarious Andrew M… Is it that you don’t understand what us engineers are doing? There is a massive difference in the way designers and engineers think. An engineer will take the designers’ far out idea, and work it into something that is possible. The mechanics only know how an engine works because somewhere along the line the engineers have shared their knowledge.
Paul…
you simply talk CRAP to suport any debate you want. The truth can be pointed out and you would still debate it until the cows come home!
1.I’m using the proof we have with Toyota making and producing a FWD aurion that is no more efficient in the real world as the bigger, heavier RWD fal/commo.
Hence my assumption that Toyota couldn’t make a RWD platform that would exceed the falc/commo packages!
Yes just an assumption…
2.As you being just the messenger!? my god, you duck and weave don’t you…Tom Gorman was talking about more profitable/higher volume products, it was then speculated by the auto web site and then YOU used it to support an irrelevent argument about falc/commo dieing off…in future back up what you say if your going to use stupid points to support an irrelevant argument. YOU used it for the intended purpose of putting down the falc/commo, it backfired, deal with it.
3.My god…i’m speechless by what you come out with, i answered why the inline barra engine would never be on WARDS list, and now you continue to spit bullshit back becasue i answered why the engine wouldn’t be on such a list! stop tugging yrself!
I asnwered it! get over it! once more…
For a unique, one market engine it keeps up with a Lexus engine!!! lol who would have thought!? and still uses a better transmission
4. No, FWD is can be packaged more efficiently, thats it, both can be tuned differently, as i have said again, again and again! Go back to what i originally said about RWD luxury cars and MX5s, RX8, 350Z etc!
Toyota simply can’t tune a chassis to handle, be it RWD or FWD, they never exceed any class leader when it comes to handling dynamics…
BMW uses the same strut design as Toyota for instance…yet toyota can’t tune it the same, why??
I’m going in circles…i simply asnwer yr weak arguments and you come back and throw something else to divert the attention…
Toyota has been critisized by plenty of motoring jornos about thier crappy dynamics and electronics that cut in too early and aburtly…
I’ say this AGAIN, a vehicle that outhandles another vehicle is safer fundamentally, hence the more subtle and later cut in of electronics that should only cut in when required! like in an emergency…hence why those devices were developed in the first instance!
How is this not common sense, why do you have twist the truth around so much?
Not because Toyota Buyers are old farts that don’t drive fast!? this would have to be the biggest load *hit i have heard in a long time…
Take a look at one of WHEELS handling tests, that might finally open your eyes up…
Adam – lets see how much you duck and weave with my comments clown… you say Toyota can not make a decent RWD platform but how WRONG you are.
The IS250/350 alone is renouned and highly regarded for it’s dynamics and personally i haven’t read a single review that has said otherwise. The new GS series is renouned for it’s respectable handling and just quietly i would love to drive either the 4.3 V8 or hybrid version. The SC certainly hasn’t been overly criticised (except for it’s dull looks) while i advice you to take some time and read reviews about the all new LS460 and LS600hl and how much it’s driver involvement has progressed for such a big, heavy car.
I also reserve absolutely no-doubt what-so-ever that the IS-F and LF-A will slaughter any HSV/FPV any day of the week and that most certainly goes for the dyamics of the flatforms.
And lets take a wee trip down memory lane… the MR2 (especially the Turbo) was a great little pocket rocket while the Celica GT4 (AWD) was highly regarded. And, i certainly won’t forget one of my most favoutite Toyota’s of all time – the V8 Soarer… now that was a damn good car and when it was worked it really drove hard. Somehow clown, individuals like yourself seem to forget about all of these examples and i beg the question… WHY !!
And answer this for me will if you dare… if Holden and Ford RWD are so finely tuned then feel free to explain to the rset of us why they incorporate ALL THE ELECTRONIC AIDS as the FWD platforms do. Yes, i certainly appreciate RWD vehicles but they certainly have thier warts aswell which can often include HAPPY REAR ENDS of which can be fatal especially with novice drivers. I personally find them more challenging in the wet and certainly on contaminated surfaces that have been affected by oil, gravel or soil. And, they certainly do not correct themselves as quickly when exiting bends.
And here is something else for you chew on – eXplain why the Ford Focus IS THE ONLY FWD vehicle in the Australian Rally Championships when all the others are AWD… ??
the biggest CLOWNS of all are often Holden and Ford freaks who find it extremely challenging to accept that other manufactuers are doing so much better then old, outdated, arrogant philsophies that GM and Ford still persist with. Infact, thier corporate behaviour really stinks and thier continuing mass loss of fortunes can not possibly prove it more correctly.
I suppose you have heard about Ford’s latest 3.5 million world-wide recall on potentially fatal Cruise Controls that don’t disengage when they are supposed to or the fact that ‘03 model Falcons and beyond require thier brake lines to be inspected because of chaving.
And here is something that would certainly make my eyes open and that is the very fact that HSV vehicles are renouned for premature brake fade. Remember ‘MOTORS’ January edition of the TOP 20 performance car shootout – well HSV dropped out at a very pathetic 18th BECAUSE IT SUFFERED PREMATURE BRAKE FADE AFTER JUST ONE PATHETIC LAP amoung other issues.
I’Ll finish with the fact that if you think the Falcon drivetrain is more superior then that of the Aurions then you are dead wrong. The L6 may be more torquey but one of it’s REAL LIFE COMPLAINTS IS IT’S THIRST and that is not mentioning the often troublesome quality related issues that is far to common then most of it’s direct competitors. The ZF box is a extremely competant unit but that IS NOT A FORD BOX.
The Aurion engine is highly regarded for it’s Refinement, Smoothness and the fact that it doesn’t howl & growl when it worked hard. The Alloytech in the Crapodore is the most ruff/gruff, vocal and unbalanced engine mated to an absolute dog of a tranny (4 speed) fitted to any Australian Manufactuered vehicle. That is REAL LIFE… !!
Bring it on clown …
Dingo,
If you actually read the post, adam has been referring specifically to toyota, NOT LEXUS… so you really showed him wrong by naming all those lexuses!! Especially mentioning that the “IS-F and LF-A will slaughter any HSV/FPV any day of the week” – did you think the fact that they will cost at least double the price may influence this??? I’m beginning to think you might be the clown Dingo.
Also, “The ZF box is a extremely competant unit but that IS NOT A FORD BOX.”
Please name one car that has a gearbox made by that Motor Company. As I understand it, nearly all cars (decent ones anyway) recieve their gearboxes from specialist companies (such as ZF) and tweak them to their requirements…
Also, you seem to have forgotten that other companies also have recalls (NO WAY!! That has to be just a ford problem!! LOL). Toyota recently recalled all 2002-2006 Camrys, and to fix steering problems in the Prius.
ooops sorry jbot,
i didnt mean to upset you there. you are obviously a mechanical engineer? i was talking more about a structual engineer who doesnt engineer the whole design but only pretty much engineers a part of it and expects you to get it to work/fit, and doesnt think the whole thing through. they also heavily rely on text books, and cut and paste a lot of things that are of no relevance or are an out dated process. i suppose i did get a bit stereotypical there.
Dingo,
gee mate settle down, a bit of unfair critism there dont you think?
1. ford and holden have to include electronic aids because people like yourself and reviewers absolutely bag the hell out of them if they dont have them. so because toyotas need them people think that the RWD cars are just skimping on them. so to avoid the bad critisism they just throw them on knowing ESC as such will be of no great benefit. and yes it was not too long ago that you were commenting on the fact that “Gee ford dont even have ESC”.
also any drive setup would be a handfull for a novice driver on contaminated or wet roads if they dont drive appropriately.
2. focus in rally…..
what does that prove? that it still does alright? well that is comparing to AWD not FWD so i still dont know where that one is heading.
3.the I6……
mate i havent heard of too many thirst related complaints on the falcon. for one they get the same economy out of a 4.0L as toyota get out of a 3.5L on paper.
and real world figures put the falcon at better then test figures show. i dont know where you get that perception from but people who say it is a bit more thirsty are not comparing it to other large cars but rather to a suzuki swift for e.g.
also many reviews have the I6 as renowned for how well balanced the I6 is. also i love the growl of the I6. a growl isnt a bad thing like you say. it means it is giving its heart to get you going. people put exhausts on to get a growl sound so i dont see how it is a bad noise
mate ive heard of (and actually seen) commodores that give better real world figures than a 4cyl camry. i know someone that had a VT then a VX and then a camry sportivo and they couldnt get the same economy out of the toyota as they did in the VT especially on long runs. now dont go picking on the quality of the VT as a comeback here cause it is nothing about that.
but on quality they had more back to dealer visits/recalls on the sportivo they bought new than they did on their VT they bought 2nd hand. im not trying to have a go at toyota here im just trying to tell you that toyotas are not as invincible as you go on that they are.
ANDREW – I am just about to prove how much of a clown you really are because what you have heard is nothing more then just utter CRAP and i’ll tell you why.
In case you didn’t already know, i was employed by Shacks Holden (Rockingham & Fremantle – Western Australia) for nearly 4 years during the VT era and i know exactly what the VT ‘averaged’ per tank on the highway (70/75) tank and that is anywhere between 600-650km’s.
Now… i own two differant generation 4 potter Camry’s with the first one being a ‘94 (csi) 2.2 widebody that i have had sense near new (now 235 000km on the odo) and the other a ‘03 2.4 Sportivo (68 000km).
With an average highway cruising speed of 100 – 110km/hr, my family onboard(2 adults/1 child, holiday luggage and usually the A/C engaged because i live in Queensland (Gladstone)- both of my 4 cyl Camry’s consistantly and constantly return an average of 800km per tank (70lts each)on the highway and that is without any bullsh*t or exaggeration what-so-ever.
For these very reasons alone, i now know that you have just passed nothing but a load of total crap. However, to make you feel a little better – the 3.0 V6 Camry could only manage to match but not better the efficancy of it’s two larger capacity 6 cyl Commodores and Falcon’s with an average highway distance of 600 – 650km’s aswell.
This now brings me to the Aurion. I will confidantly suggest that more bloggers then not on this site that have used the terminolgy ‘IN THE REAL WORLD’ and suggested that a Commodore and Falcon could match the Aurion for efficancy is just another load of ‘BULL’ because the odds are, they probably have never been exposed to the Aurion over extended distances to even pass founded comments and that goes for me aswell.
What i will go by though is what has been printed and first that is the ADR claim but that most certainly is not in stone.
But…refer to ‘WHEELS’ January 2007 edition pages 52-53 that tested the 4 local LARGE cars over a mixed 800km route. The Falcon returned an average of 13.0L/100km, Commodore 12.5L/100km and the Aurion 11.6L/100km. The article then reads that calculated at $1.30 per litre which ironically in the current price of GO-Juice here in Central Queensland then that equates to a differance of $10 per tank.
And, as i mentioned earlier and i will say it again – one of the most common compliants (by my experiance) of the Falcon with exception to the quality related issues is it’s thirst especially when around town of which most average families tend to culminate most of thier distances.
One of the sole reasons i visit sites like this is because clowns like yourself have a tenacy to write so much way-ward crap that i find it neceassry to correct and on this matter consider yourself CORRECTED.
Dingo, just because you dissagree with Andrew doesn’t make him wrong. His opinion is just as credible as yours.
Dingo…
How many times do i have point out the obvious with you?
1. yes Lexus is RWD, they converted all there FWD to RWD to compete with BMW and MERC and they still can’t outclass these makes, they simply don’t make the best handling chassis FWD or RWD, not in this current age, maybe they produced some one offs 20 years ago, get with the times! it’s 2007!
I’m not saying FWD is not good…twit, i’m saying it comes down to how a manufacturer tunes what they have as a fundamental base!
2. Does Lexus compete with Ford and Holden?????? i didn’t think they did???? and i’m the clown???
Where is toyotas RWD family class of car!?
Let me repeat myself, AGIAN…
electronic aids cut in when they are absolutely needed! a good dynamically tuned chassis, wheather it’s FWD, AWD or RWD won’t need the stability controls to cut in early…
Toyota likes to averagely tune their chassi dynamics and make the electronics cut in way too early!
simple, fact get over it dingo…
Dingo,
get over yourself.
so why does your life experiences rate over mine?
ok big question….
have you ever owned a falcon or commodore and ran it on the exact same run repeatdly? if you say no you havent learnt from as much of a broard experience as myself and your comments would be rendered BIASED
how do you know that a falcon will only return 600k’s out of a tank? did you read that in wheels? yep the very same magazine that you continuously discredit when anyone else pulls info from it. you mean you still buy it though?
i too am in queensland and my brother inlaw used to live in gladstone. i will see what he got out of his VY commy on runs down to brizzy. so you are saying 600-650k’s? i bet ill surprise you.
do you have any practicle knowledge of fuel consumption of any other cars apart from toyotas?
mate i have a pretty broard and unbiased “actually have seen” back ground in fuel economy in different makes. You?
what im saying is you WILL get 800k’s out of a falcon or commy to at least match what the camry’s are getting as you say.
ill tell you for a fact that my dads EF falcon (350,000k) does return 750k’s a tank (68L i think) and that is heavy footed with a bit of city cycle.
i can get 700k’s out of my falcon ON GAS on a highway run. yep on gas too.
and the eg i gave you with the VT was correct. how can you discredit something you dont know better about
the comparison was made on a run from brizzy to coffs harbour when they had the VT auto and then when they had the camry sportivo 4cyl manual. they reported the camry returned actually a little worse. FACT
ok so you admit the 3.0L camry isnt any better than the falcon or commy “in real world” then how do you figure the 3.5L Aurion wil be better?
Adam –
1. I have not stated on one single occassion that Toyota or Lexus engineer the best handling platforms whether FWD or RWD. All of the examples i listed (of which i forgot to mention the Supra) are renouned for thier driving dynamics regardless wether they are the best in thier particular market or not. Ford or GM most certainly do not engineer the best handling vehicles either but rather this is still dominated by such marques as BMW, Mercedez Benz, Audi and better still – exotics like Ferrari, Lamabo’s etc.
Regardless, Lexus with the ‘IS’ series has been able to come very close to that of BMW of which is an achievement not to be couched at by any means while the Supra and Soaer were fantastic vehicles in there time. Infact, Lexus has been so competitive with the IS250/350 with regards to it’s driver involvement that BMW has had to ‘wake up and take note’.
… explain how that is not credable !!
2. Ford and Holden not compared against Lexus – fundamentally you are correct on the matter but as i so rightfully indicated earlier… Holden is the company so desperately trying to elevate it’s stance and compare the new VE range against marque brands and if that’s how they intend to pass themselves then that’s exactly how they will be judged upon and one would have to be stupid to expect people not to. They are Holdens claims… not mine or yours or most others – Holdens (and of coarse those dimwits who so stupidly believe it)
3. If Toyota or any other manufactuer chooses to engineer and calibrate Electronic Stability devices conservativly then please explain how that is ‘adverse’ especially when considering we live in a society that has placed so much emphasis on automotive manufactuers to deliver us safer cars. These vehciles we are talking about are predominately family hacks and will be utilised accordingly. To me, calibrating them any other way in hope to gain extra sales is not only irresponsible but stupid.
I would much prefer to be in a vehicle were it’s passive aids engage sooner then later especially when the safety of my wife and 3 year old child is added to the equation. As far as i’m concerned, Toyota has shown responsible behaviour towards the vehicles they have choosen to engineer for everyday purposes and the fact that they now have GM and Ford in a hizzy-fit not only indicates that is has been a very successful corporate approach but an extremely lucrative one at that.
Adam –
1. I took a little time out of my day yesterday and spoke to the 3 people that i know who own VX/VY/VZ Commodores because i don’t know anyone with a VE. The first i spoke to are my parents neighbours (Mick) and he currently has a VX. Infact, i have know Mick since i was a kid and he has never had anything but Commodores and stated 650km is about the limit for him.
Secondly, i rang my brother-inlaw’s parents who also have a VX and stated he averages ‘give or take’ about the same while the third person was actually my boss (last night at work) who has a VZ on salary sacrifice/lease. Co-incidently, his name is also Mick and he admitted that the very best he has achieved to date(and he was happy with it) was 670km’s.
Now, i just rang Anderson’s Auto City this morning here in Gladstone who are the local Holden Dealership and they agreed that 650km’s pretty much sounds about right – those words said. Now… i originally stated (based on the VT) 600-650km’s but after my liitle research frenzy it came in at 650km on average which means my 2 4cyl Camry’s are bettering the Commodores by about 150km’s which corresponds to that of my experiances and those recently published as i mentioned earlier.
With regards to your father’s EF Falcon – what an absolute load of croak and i’ll tell you why. A close Navy buddy of mine a few years ago had a very nice maroon ‘96 EF Futura and travelled from Perth to Melbourne on posting and then about 2 years later from Melbourne back to Perth (also on posting) and claimed he only ever achieved just over 600km’s per tank. Now, that is travelling across the Nullobour which would have to be Australia’s straightest, unchallenging roads of all and his car was fitted with Cruise Control. You claim 750km per tank by the same model car and made referance that your ‘ole man has a heavy foot. How remarkably differant the two results differ.
I’ll finish with referance to the Aurion. The old 3.0 V6 used in the Camry was one of Toyota’s aging designes (despite the fact that it was very refined and smooth)that exhibited no variable timing of any sort while mated to an aged 4 speed tranny. The Aurion however utilises one of Toyota’s newest designed engines of which exhibits variable timing both the inlet and exhaust while mated to a very late generation 6 speed box. Another word’s – completely differant gneration drivetrains.
Dingo…
The point is a price of a vehicle is apart of the total value/package you get…
The reality is that the money holden asks for in the caprice is great value, wheather you like it or not!
back in 2003 wheels tested a BA fairmont 4.0 against the BMW 5 6cyl and MERC E class 6cyl…
The Ford was obviously not a better package overall, but the BMW and MERC were not, i repeat were not…worth $40,000 extra, the point is if you spent that extra money on the fairmont it would be a better car than either the BM or MERC, ok? understand the relevance of purchase price vers the total vehicle package yet?
When Holden advertises the caprice to Mercs and BMWs models its saying for HALF THE PRICE the caprice is COMPETITIVE as an overall package, which it is…!
Also Ford or Europe and now here in AUS are gaining a repuation for producing vehicles that has some of the best handling dynamics in their classes! and matcing Toyotas quality, in Europe toyota isn’t as well regarded as it is here or in the US…and if you deny this, you certainly have your head jamed far up Toyotas butt hole. Start reseaching some info about the auto industry overall…
Ford in America is producing some of the saftest passnenger cars on the market! as well as the reliability aspect is catching Toyotas…
The reality is the Aurion/camry STILL CANNOT out handle the bigger heavier RWD commo or falc!! in any trim or model…
Explain that one??
Toyota worldwide does not offer any sort of affordable, RWD platform, V8 models…
They offer FWD vehicles that are reliable and safe, devoid of any emotion or enjoyable driving aspects…
As i have said a million times if Toyota can add handling and styling into its mix…I’d buy one!
Now, as for handling dynamics and stability controls systems…
If a vehicles dynamics are tuned well to begin with, the limit at which you would have to reach in order to trigger the ESC device would never be reached!
It’s been mentioned countless times in vehicle reviews that a system that reacts too abruptly or cuts in too early can actually catch drivers off guard…
These devices cut in when required in an emergency, not the other way around, they shouldnt be used to make up for sloppy fundamental vehicle dynamics, simple!
spin this which ever way you like…the fact remains…
My opologizes to Adam in referance to my last statement – that should been attentioned to Andrew (or both)
Dingo,
HAVE YOU EVER OWNED A FALCON? (yes or no)
HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN A FALCON ON THE SAME ROUTE AS YOUR CAMRY (yes or no)
ok so you want to discredit my 02 mod falcon on gas getting 700k’s a tank now too. i think the official figures for it were 585k’s per tank.
heres one for you….
so the “official” falcon fuel figures put it at 685L out of a tank and that includes a mix/average of city cycle thrown in. so tell me how you figure the falcon wont better that consumption when put solely on a hwy cycle.
mate and i think the quality difference is way too over rated and definately not to the tune to what you say it is. i have never had problems with my falcons like you have had none with your toyotas so does that mean ford build the best too? NO
even if i blew the motor in my falcon tomorrow (as if that would happen) i would still buy another falcon the next day.
why? because they have been good to me like toyotas have been good to you, and i also believe the quality isnt that much better elsewhere. and on top of that the falcon offers a vehicle to me that holden nor toyota can deliver. and on top again they deliver the feel of comfort, and a vehicle that just generally appeals to me and feels right.
oh yeah and never trust what dealerships tell you they get it out of a hand book dont forget
I’d take this LWB Mondeo in a heartbeat, if given a choice between it and Falcon!
Thanks Tony. I just read this blog start to finish and by the time I got to this point I’d completely forgotten what the topic was. Started to think it was RWD vs FWD or Toyota vs Ford/Holden.
LWB Mondeo does look good to me. I prefer RWD tho (have owned both) so will stick with Falcon. If Orion is as good as I think it will be, I’ll be getting one (FPV `phoon)
the mondeo and falcon are two completely diff.cars
their lines are similar like most cars these days.
both will have their place in the ford s/room.
but for me the falcons the go
When I saw the Mondeo sedan we have here, I thought they were this one. Now that I’ve come back, I can see it’s not the same, this is longer.