Australian Resource for Car Reviews, News, Advice
July 31, 2007 by George Skentzos
If you want a decent impression of what the base model Falcon may look like, look no further than this long wheel base Ford Mondeo which was spied in China recently.
For a comparison, here is the Mondeo (above, obviously) and a spy shot of the up and coming Orion. Note the matching wheels?
Source: MotorAuthority via SoulImage.cn
Print it: 
2009 Opel Insignia Fastback spied
Now that the Opel Insignia has been unveiled to the world, the previously unseen Fastback edition has been caught testing
Holden doesn’t like the Ford Mondeo
Holden are still a little bitter about the negative publicity the Holden Epica has caused, so to attract some attention
2010 MINI Crossman spied
Now that its name has been officially unveiled, the new MINI Crossman is nearing its production debut with a creatively
Spied: 2011 Jaguar XJ mule
Jaguar is obviously suffering no ill-effect following the Tata takeover, with yet another test mule - this time of the
2010 Audi A7 spied during high-speed testing
These images are our best proof yet that Audi is working on its Mercedes CLS-killer, likely to carry the A7
paul,
isnt the IS350 RWD? so how does that help the FWD argument?
with the RWD FWD thing, paul have you ever driven some go carts? if you have you would realise the benifit of RWD when conering and how much you can control the car with some rear wheel throttle.
i still want to know how you conclude the FWD is more efficient. fair enough to say it works in theory but the falcon V aurion proves it is no more efficient. ok so the aurion has 10kw more, weighs less and has the most efficient drive system (meaning you lose less at the wheels)
so please forgive me for questioning why the aurion doesnt absolutly smash the falcon in time trials and nor does it return better fuel figures.
also with the I6, the list of engines is from world wide available engines so get over it. also if the aurion is a derivative of one that is on the list it means it is also not on the list
also i deal with engineers quite a bit, and i can tell you they have no commonsence as they never get to implicate their text book oriented designs them selves. they rely too much on formulas.
give me practical knowledge over text book knowledge any day. i continually find faults and impossibilities with the work of such designers and engineers.
also a mechanic and engineer learn in totally different ways. as i highlighted the mechanic learns practically and the engineer learns through text books.
and also a lot of text books used to train are a fair bit out of date, but only the practically trained would pick up on it whereas the textbook trained are told to take it as gospel cause they dont know or learn any better
Haha hilarious Andrew M… Is it that you don’t understand what us engineers are doing? There is a massive difference in the way designers and engineers think. An engineer will take the designers’ far out idea, and work it into something that is possible. The mechanics only know how an engine works because somewhere along the line the engineers have shared their knowledge.
Paul…
you simply talk CRAP to suport any debate you want. The truth can be pointed out and you would still debate it until the cows come home!
1.I’m using the proof we have with Toyota making and producing a FWD aurion that is no more efficient in the real world as the bigger, heavier RWD fal/commo.
Hence my assumption that Toyota couldn’t make a RWD platform that would exceed the falc/commo packages!
Yes just an assumption…
2.As you being just the messenger!? my god, you duck and weave don’t you…Tom Gorman was talking about more profitable/higher volume products, it was then speculated by the auto web site and then YOU used it to support an irrelevent argument about falc/commo dieing off…in future back up what you say if your going to use stupid points to support an irrelevant argument. YOU used it for the intended purpose of putting down the falc/commo, it backfired, deal with it.
3.My god…i’m speechless by what you come out with, i answered why the inline barra engine would never be on WARDS list, and now you continue to spit bullshit back becasue i answered why the engine wouldn’t be on such a list! stop tugging yrself!
I asnwered it! get over it! once more…
For a unique, one market engine it keeps up with a Lexus engine!!! lol who would have thought!? and still uses a better transmission
4. No, FWD is can be packaged more efficiently, thats it, both can be tuned differently, as i have said again, again and again! Go back to what i originally said about RWD luxury cars and MX5s, RX8, 350Z etc!
Toyota simply can’t tune a chassis to handle, be it RWD or FWD, they never exceed any class leader when it comes to handling dynamics…
BMW uses the same strut design as Toyota for instance…yet toyota can’t tune it the same, why??
I’m going in circles…i simply asnwer yr weak arguments and you come back and throw something else to divert the attention…
Toyota has been critisized by plenty of motoring jornos about thier crappy dynamics and electronics that cut in too early and aburtly…
I’ say this AGAIN, a vehicle that outhandles another vehicle is safer fundamentally, hence the more subtle and later cut in of electronics that should only cut in when required! like in an emergency…hence why those devices were developed in the first instance!
How is this not common sense, why do you have twist the truth around so much?
Not because Toyota Buyers are old farts that don’t drive fast!? this would have to be the biggest load *hit i have heard in a long time…
Take a look at one of WHEELS handling tests, that might finally open your eyes up…
Adam – lets see how much you duck and weave with my comments clown… you say Toyota can not make a decent RWD platform but how WRONG you are.
The IS250/350 alone is renouned and highly regarded for it’s dynamics and personally i haven’t read a single review that has said otherwise. The new GS series is renouned for it’s respectable handling and just quietly i would love to drive either the 4.3 V8 or hybrid version. The SC certainly hasn’t been overly criticised (except for it’s dull looks) while i advice you to take some time and read reviews about the all new LS460 and LS600hl and how much it’s driver involvement has progressed for such a big, heavy car.
I also reserve absolutely no-doubt what-so-ever that the IS-F and LF-A will slaughter any HSV/FPV any day of the week and that most certainly goes for the dyamics of the flatforms.
And lets take a wee trip down memory lane… the MR2 (especially the Turbo) was a great little pocket rocket while the Celica GT4 (AWD) was highly regarded. And, i certainly won’t forget one of my most favoutite Toyota’s of all time – the V8 Soarer… now that was a damn good car and when it was worked it really drove hard. Somehow clown, individuals like yourself seem to forget about all of these examples and i beg the question… WHY !!
And answer this for me will if you dare… if Holden and Ford RWD are so finely tuned then feel free to explain to the rset of us why they incorporate ALL THE ELECTRONIC AIDS as the FWD platforms do. Yes, i certainly appreciate RWD vehicles but they certainly have thier warts aswell which can often include HAPPY REAR ENDS of which can be fatal especially with novice drivers. I personally find them more challenging in the wet and certainly on contaminated surfaces that have been affected by oil, gravel or soil. And, they certainly do not correct themselves as quickly when exiting bends.
And here is something else for you chew on – eXplain why the Ford Focus IS THE ONLY FWD vehicle in the Australian Rally Championships when all the others are AWD… ??
the biggest CLOWNS of all are often Holden and Ford freaks who find it extremely challenging to accept that other manufactuers are doing so much better then old, outdated, arrogant philsophies that GM and Ford still persist with. Infact, thier corporate behaviour really stinks and thier continuing mass loss of fortunes can not possibly prove it more correctly.
I suppose you have heard about Ford’s latest 3.5 million world-wide recall on potentially fatal Cruise Controls that don’t disengage when they are supposed to or the fact that ‘03 model Falcons and beyond require thier brake lines to be inspected because of chaving.
And here is something that would certainly make my eyes open and that is the very fact that HSV vehicles are renouned for premature brake fade. Remember ‘MOTORS’ January edition of the TOP 20 performance car shootout – well HSV dropped out at a very pathetic 18th BECAUSE IT SUFFERED PREMATURE BRAKE FADE AFTER JUST ONE PATHETIC LAP amoung other issues.
I’Ll finish with the fact that if you think the Falcon drivetrain is more superior then that of the Aurions then you are dead wrong. The L6 may be more torquey but one of it’s REAL LIFE COMPLAINTS IS IT’S THIRST and that is not mentioning the often troublesome quality related issues that is far to common then most of it’s direct competitors. The ZF box is a extremely competant unit but that IS NOT A FORD BOX.
The Aurion engine is highly regarded for it’s Refinement, Smoothness and the fact that it doesn’t howl & growl when it worked hard. The Alloytech in the Crapodore is the most ruff/gruff, vocal and unbalanced engine mated to an absolute dog of a tranny (4 speed) fitted to any Australian Manufactuered vehicle. That is REAL LIFE… !!
Bring it on clown …
Dingo,
If you actually read the post, adam has been referring specifically to toyota, NOT LEXUS… so you really showed him wrong by naming all those lexuses!! Especially mentioning that the “IS-F and LF-A will slaughter any HSV/FPV any day of the week” – did you think the fact that they will cost at least double the price may influence this??? I’m beginning to think you might be the clown Dingo.
Also, “The ZF box is a extremely competant unit but that IS NOT A FORD BOX.”
Please name one car that has a gearbox made by that Motor Company. As I understand it, nearly all cars (decent ones anyway) recieve their gearboxes from specialist companies (such as ZF) and tweak them to their requirements…
Also, you seem to have forgotten that other companies also have recalls (NO WAY!! That has to be just a ford problem!! LOL). Toyota recently recalled all 2002-2006 Camrys, and to fix steering problems in the Prius.
ooops sorry jbot,
i didnt mean to upset you there. you are obviously a mechanical engineer? i was talking more about a structual engineer who doesnt engineer the whole design but only pretty much engineers a part of it and expects you to get it to work/fit, and doesnt think the whole thing through. they also heavily rely on text books, and cut and paste a lot of things that are of no relevance or are an out dated process. i suppose i did get a bit stereotypical there.
Dingo,
gee mate settle down, a bit of unfair critism there dont you think?
1. ford and holden have to include electronic aids because people like yourself and reviewers absolutely bag the hell out of them if they dont have them. so because toyotas need them people think that the RWD cars are just skimping on them. so to avoid the bad critisism they just throw them on knowing ESC as such will be of no great benefit. and yes it was not too long ago that you were commenting on the fact that “Gee ford dont even have ESC”.
also any drive setup would be a handfull for a novice driver on contaminated or wet roads if they dont drive appropriately.
2. focus in rally…..
what does that prove? that it still does alright? well that is comparing to AWD not FWD so i still dont know where that one is heading.
3.the I6……
mate i havent heard of too many thirst related complaints on the falcon. for one they get the same economy out of a 4.0L as toyota get out of a 3.5L on paper.
and real world figures put the falcon at better then test figures show. i dont know where you get that perception from but people who say it is a bit more thirsty are not comparing it to other large cars but rather to a suzuki swift for e.g.
also many reviews have the I6 as renowned for how well balanced the I6 is. also i love the growl of the I6. a growl isnt a bad thing like you say. it means it is giving its heart to get you going. people put exhausts on to get a growl sound so i dont see how it is a bad noise
mate ive heard of (and actually seen) commodores that give better real world figures than a 4cyl camry. i know someone that had a VT then a VX and then a camry sportivo and they couldnt get the same economy out of the toyota as they did in the VT especially on long runs. now dont go picking on the quality of the VT as a comeback here cause it is nothing about that.
but on quality they had more back to dealer visits/recalls on the sportivo they bought new than they did on their VT they bought 2nd hand. im not trying to have a go at toyota here im just trying to tell you that toyotas are not as invincible as you go on that they are.
ANDREW – I am just about to prove how much of a clown you really are because what you have heard is nothing more then just utter CRAP and i’ll tell you why.
In case you didn’t already know, i was employed by Shacks Holden (Rockingham & Fremantle – Western Australia) for nearly 4 years during the VT era and i know exactly what the VT ‘averaged’ per tank on the highway (70/75) tank and that is anywhere between 600-650km’s.
Now… i own two differant generation 4 potter Camry’s with the first one being a ‘94 (csi) 2.2 widebody that i have had sense near new (now 235 000km on the odo) and the other a ‘03 2.4 Sportivo (68 000km).
With an average highway cruising speed of 100 – 110km/hr, my family onboard(2 adults/1 child, holiday luggage and usually the A/C engaged because i live in Queensland (Gladstone)- both of my 4 cyl Camry’s consistantly and constantly return an average of 800km per tank (70lts each)on the highway and that is without any bullsh*t or exaggeration what-so-ever.
For these very reasons alone, i now know that you have just passed nothing but a load of total crap. However, to make you feel a little better – the 3.0 V6 Camry could only manage to match but not better the efficancy of it’s two larger capacity 6 cyl Commodores and Falcon’s with an average highway distance of 600 – 650km’s aswell.
This now brings me to the Aurion. I will confidantly suggest that more bloggers then not on this site that have used the terminolgy ‘IN THE REAL WORLD’ and suggested that a Commodore and Falcon could match the Aurion for efficancy is just another load of ‘BULL’ because the odds are, they probably have never been exposed to the Aurion over extended distances to even pass founded comments and that goes for me aswell.
What i will go by though is what has been printed and first that is the ADR claim but that most certainly is not in stone.
But…refer to ‘WHEELS’ January 2007 edition pages 52-53 that tested the 4 local LARGE cars over a mixed 800km route. The Falcon returned an average of 13.0L/100km, Commodore 12.5L/100km and the Aurion 11.6L/100km. The article then reads that calculated at $1.30 per litre which ironically in the current price of GO-Juice here in Central Queensland then that equates to a differance of $10 per tank.
And, as i mentioned earlier and i will say it again – one of the most common compliants (by my experiance) of the Falcon with exception to the quality related issues is it’s thirst especially when around town of which most average families tend to culminate most of thier distances.
One of the sole reasons i visit sites like this is because clowns like yourself have a tenacy to write so much way-ward crap that i find it neceassry to correct and on this matter consider yourself CORRECTED.
Dingo, just because you dissagree with Andrew doesn’t make him wrong. His opinion is just as credible as yours.
Dingo…
How many times do i have point out the obvious with you?
1. yes Lexus is RWD, they converted all there FWD to RWD to compete with BMW and MERC and they still can’t outclass these makes, they simply don’t make the best handling chassis FWD or RWD, not in this current age, maybe they produced some one offs 20 years ago, get with the times! it’s 2007!
I’m not saying FWD is not good…twit, i’m saying it comes down to how a manufacturer tunes what they have as a fundamental base!
2. Does Lexus compete with Ford and Holden?????? i didn’t think they did???? and i’m the clown???
Where is toyotas RWD family class of car!?
Let me repeat myself, AGIAN…
electronic aids cut in when they are absolutely needed! a good dynamically tuned chassis, wheather it’s FWD, AWD or RWD won’t need the stability controls to cut in early…
Toyota likes to averagely tune their chassi dynamics and make the electronics cut in way too early!
simple, fact get over it dingo…
Dingo,
get over yourself.
so why does your life experiences rate over mine?
ok big question….
have you ever owned a falcon or commodore and ran it on the exact same run repeatdly? if you say no you havent learnt from as much of a broard experience as myself and your comments would be rendered BIASED
how do you know that a falcon will only return 600k’s out of a tank? did you read that in wheels? yep the very same magazine that you continuously discredit when anyone else pulls info from it. you mean you still buy it though?
i too am in queensland and my brother inlaw used to live in gladstone. i will see what he got out of his VY commy on runs down to brizzy. so you are saying 600-650k’s? i bet ill surprise you.
do you have any practicle knowledge of fuel consumption of any other cars apart from toyotas?
mate i have a pretty broard and unbiased “actually have seen” back ground in fuel economy in different makes. You?
what im saying is you WILL get 800k’s out of a falcon or commy to at least match what the camry’s are getting as you say.
ill tell you for a fact that my dads EF falcon (350,000k) does return 750k’s a tank (68L i think) and that is heavy footed with a bit of city cycle.
i can get 700k’s out of my falcon ON GAS on a highway run. yep on gas too.
and the eg i gave you with the VT was correct. how can you discredit something you dont know better about
the comparison was made on a run from brizzy to coffs harbour when they had the VT auto and then when they had the camry sportivo 4cyl manual. they reported the camry returned actually a little worse. FACT
ok so you admit the 3.0L camry isnt any better than the falcon or commy “in real world” then how do you figure the 3.5L Aurion wil be better?
Adam –
1. I have not stated on one single occassion that Toyota or Lexus engineer the best handling platforms whether FWD or RWD. All of the examples i listed (of which i forgot to mention the Supra) are renouned for thier driving dynamics regardless wether they are the best in thier particular market or not. Ford or GM most certainly do not engineer the best handling vehicles either but rather this is still dominated by such marques as BMW, Mercedez Benz, Audi and better still – exotics like Ferrari, Lamabo’s etc.
Regardless, Lexus with the ‘IS’ series has been able to come very close to that of BMW of which is an achievement not to be couched at by any means while the Supra and Soaer were fantastic vehicles in there time. Infact, Lexus has been so competitive with the IS250/350 with regards to it’s driver involvement that BMW has had to ‘wake up and take note’.
… explain how that is not credable !!
2. Ford and Holden not compared against Lexus – fundamentally you are correct on the matter but as i so rightfully indicated earlier… Holden is the company so desperately trying to elevate it’s stance and compare the new VE range against marque brands and if that’s how they intend to pass themselves then that’s exactly how they will be judged upon and one would have to be stupid to expect people not to. They are Holdens claims… not mine or yours or most others – Holdens (and of coarse those dimwits who so stupidly believe it)
3. If Toyota or any other manufactuer chooses to engineer and calibrate Electronic Stability devices conservativly then please explain how that is ‘adverse’ especially when considering we live in a society that has placed so much emphasis on automotive manufactuers to deliver us safer cars. These vehciles we are talking about are predominately family hacks and will be utilised accordingly. To me, calibrating them any other way in hope to gain extra sales is not only irresponsible but stupid.
I would much prefer to be in a vehicle were it’s passive aids engage sooner then later especially when the safety of my wife and 3 year old child is added to the equation. As far as i’m concerned, Toyota has shown responsible behaviour towards the vehicles they have choosen to engineer for everyday purposes and the fact that they now have GM and Ford in a hizzy-fit not only indicates that is has been a very successful corporate approach but an extremely lucrative one at that.
Adam –
1. I took a little time out of my day yesterday and spoke to the 3 people that i know who own VX/VY/VZ Commodores because i don’t know anyone with a VE. The first i spoke to are my parents neighbours (Mick) and he currently has a VX. Infact, i have know Mick since i was a kid and he has never had anything but Commodores and stated 650km is about the limit for him.
Secondly, i rang my brother-inlaw’s parents who also have a VX and stated he averages ‘give or take’ about the same while the third person was actually my boss (last night at work) who has a VZ on salary sacrifice/lease. Co-incidently, his name is also Mick and he admitted that the very best he has achieved to date(and he was happy with it) was 670km’s.
Now, i just rang Anderson’s Auto City this morning here in Gladstone who are the local Holden Dealership and they agreed that 650km’s pretty much sounds about right – those words said. Now… i originally stated (based on the VT) 600-650km’s but after my liitle research frenzy it came in at 650km on average which means my 2 4cyl Camry’s are bettering the Commodores by about 150km’s which corresponds to that of my experiances and those recently published as i mentioned earlier.
With regards to your father’s EF Falcon – what an absolute load of croak and i’ll tell you why. A close Navy buddy of mine a few years ago had a very nice maroon ‘96 EF Futura and travelled from Perth to Melbourne on posting and then about 2 years later from Melbourne back to Perth (also on posting) and claimed he only ever achieved just over 600km’s per tank. Now, that is travelling across the Nullobour which would have to be Australia’s straightest, unchallenging roads of all and his car was fitted with Cruise Control. You claim 750km per tank by the same model car and made referance that your ‘ole man has a heavy foot. How remarkably differant the two results differ.
I’ll finish with referance to the Aurion. The old 3.0 V6 used in the Camry was one of Toyota’s aging designes (despite the fact that it was very refined and smooth)that exhibited no variable timing of any sort while mated to an aged 4 speed tranny. The Aurion however utilises one of Toyota’s newest designed engines of which exhibits variable timing both the inlet and exhaust while mated to a very late generation 6 speed box. Another word’s – completely differant gneration drivetrains.
Dingo…
The point is a price of a vehicle is apart of the total value/package you get…
The reality is that the money holden asks for in the caprice is great value, wheather you like it or not!
back in 2003 wheels tested a BA fairmont 4.0 against the BMW 5 6cyl and MERC E class 6cyl…
The Ford was obviously not a better package overall, but the BMW and MERC were not, i repeat were not…worth $40,000 extra, the point is if you spent that extra money on the fairmont it would be a better car than either the BM or MERC, ok? understand the relevance of purchase price vers the total vehicle package yet?
When Holden advertises the caprice to Mercs and BMWs models its saying for HALF THE PRICE the caprice is COMPETITIVE as an overall package, which it is…!
Also Ford or Europe and now here in AUS are gaining a repuation for producing vehicles that has some of the best handling dynamics in their classes! and matcing Toyotas quality, in Europe toyota isn’t as well regarded as it is here or in the US…and if you deny this, you certainly have your head jamed far up Toyotas butt hole. Start reseaching some info about the auto industry overall…
Ford in America is producing some of the saftest passnenger cars on the market! as well as the reliability aspect is catching Toyotas…
The reality is the Aurion/camry STILL CANNOT out handle the bigger heavier RWD commo or falc!! in any trim or model…
Explain that one??
Toyota worldwide does not offer any sort of affordable, RWD platform, V8 models…
They offer FWD vehicles that are reliable and safe, devoid of any emotion or enjoyable driving aspects…
As i have said a million times if Toyota can add handling and styling into its mix…I’d buy one!
Now, as for handling dynamics and stability controls systems…
If a vehicles dynamics are tuned well to begin with, the limit at which you would have to reach in order to trigger the ESC device would never be reached!
It’s been mentioned countless times in vehicle reviews that a system that reacts too abruptly or cuts in too early can actually catch drivers off guard…
These devices cut in when required in an emergency, not the other way around, they shouldnt be used to make up for sloppy fundamental vehicle dynamics, simple!
spin this which ever way you like…the fact remains…
My opologizes to Adam in referance to my last statement – that should been attentioned to Andrew (or both)
Dingo,
HAVE YOU EVER OWNED A FALCON? (yes or no)
HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN A FALCON ON THE SAME ROUTE AS YOUR CAMRY (yes or no)
ok so you want to discredit my 02 mod falcon on gas getting 700k’s a tank now too. i think the official figures for it were 585k’s per tank.
heres one for you….
so the “official” falcon fuel figures put it at 685L out of a tank and that includes a mix/average of city cycle thrown in. so tell me how you figure the falcon wont better that consumption when put solely on a hwy cycle.
mate and i think the quality difference is way too over rated and definately not to the tune to what you say it is. i have never had problems with my falcons like you have had none with your toyotas so does that mean ford build the best too? NO
even if i blew the motor in my falcon tomorrow (as if that would happen) i would still buy another falcon the next day.
why? because they have been good to me like toyotas have been good to you, and i also believe the quality isnt that much better elsewhere. and on top of that the falcon offers a vehicle to me that holden nor toyota can deliver. and on top again they deliver the feel of comfort, and a vehicle that just generally appeals to me and feels right.
oh yeah and never trust what dealerships tell you they get it out of a hand book dont forget
I’d take this LWB Mondeo in a heartbeat, if given a choice between it and Falcon!
Thanks Tony. I just read this blog start to finish and by the time I got to this point I’d completely forgotten what the topic was. Started to think it was RWD vs FWD or Toyota vs Ford/Holden.
LWB Mondeo does look good to me. I prefer RWD tho (have owned both) so will stick with Falcon. If Orion is as good as I think it will be, I’ll be getting one (FPV `phoon)
the mondeo and falcon are two completely diff.cars
their lines are similar like most cars these days.
both will have their place in the ford s/room.
but for me the falcons the go
When I saw the Mondeo sedan we have here, I thought they were this one. Now that I’ve come back, I can see it’s not the same, this is longer.