agree…

toyotas biggest winner is staying the same and being conservative.

The more reputable Japanese manufactuers like Toyota, Honda, Mazda Subaru etc have and still engineer quality, refined, reliable, dependable and durable vehicles because it the very DNA of thier corporate behaviour whereas the American duo haven’t given a damn how crap the vehicles they have provided to the market until their sales hence fortunes began to decline heavily and only then did they WAKE UP AND TAKE NOTE with thanks to such brands like Honda and Toyota.

The aame can be said with many Euopean marques who have also relaxed in recent years but Toyta throuh Lexus has also made such recognised brands to SIT UP AND TAKE NOTE. Toyota is argueably the empire that has had more effect on the global automotive industry in recent generations then any other brand stretching from everyday hack transports to CRAFTED MARQUES.

Sadly and even to thier own recogintion, they abandoned the performance market to persue the lucaritive market and to a certain extent has proven to be more finacial beneficial then other approach any other manufactuer has been able to achieve.
However, they now relise that to regain greater recognition they need to re-establish those grounds and that is exactly what they have set out to achieve ranging from less challenging projects like those from TRD to highly competitive ones like the IS-F, LF-A etc not to mention other projects suchs FT-HS AND Supra.

Where-as companies like GM and Ford are putting a foot forward to repair there tattered reputaton associated with the poor quality and reliability issues of thier vehicles Toyota is putting a foot forward to challenge the more exciting performance market and as far as i’m concerned, the luxuries that the American companies once enjoyed is long gone and i’ll bet you they will find the global market far more brutal then it ever was.

As GM AND Ford are taking the challenge to Toyota, Toyota is taking the chaLlenge right to thier very own door step with recent examples like the introduction of the Tundra truck and Nascar racing to name only two combined with their already extremely competitive range, growing populraity of hybrid vehicles and of coarse the renouned respect that Lexus now enjoys. The very and probably the single biggest differance between the brands though is that Toyota has a massive finacial warchest to fight with weheras Ford and GM are still incurringg mass losses of which is not favourable in thier persuit to stabilise.

whats that i hear???????
hey adam you know of ef falcons that go for ever too?
well right on brother i second that!!

i told dingo of an ef in another post that has like 350k’s on it and like you say it also has had nothing wrong with it.
uuummmmmm im trying to think of something to be fair….. ah a couple of batteries yeah ill start with that one.
ah a good transmission service….
ah i think the backlight in the radio display is gone…. i think
ah shock absorbers….

well i think that is bloody excellent for a 12 yr old car with 350,000k’s on it, and even if the camry didnt do a couple of batteries or shocks in that time or even need a transmission service it still wouldnt be enough to get me away from a falcon

summing up ford does make quality and reliable and fuel efficient cars TOO!!!!!

Your right you no nothing of Lincoln, so do not use the American quality statistics in an argument if you know nothing about Lincoln…I do…
The reality is the gap between asian and american autos makers is not as big as you like to make it…in some cases euro makers are worse than the ammerican makers…

As for ruggered offraod vehicles…ok…

I agree %100 that the landcruiser/hilux are some of the most durable work trucks around…thats what they are work trucks imported from japan and made by toyota japan, not Toyota AUS.

What is the top selling vehicle here? the commodore…
for the last hmmm 40 odd years big large 6cyl RWD cars have been the top sellers…
Do you think that the large car class is worth having a competitior in?? i think it is! as Toyota and the rest have been trying to tap into Ford and Holdens large car share for the past 20 years!
Why? because profits exist there…and Ford and Holden make unique vehicles for this class, does anybody else? NO…

So if i were Ford or Holden, i’d let Toyota and the rest has the light/heavy truck segement, profits aren’t as big, lets face it, fleets are biggest buyer, not the private buyers for these types of vehicles.

I will die the day i see any other ‘local’ assembler apart from ford or Holden actually design, engineer and build an exclusive model for AUS, as Ford and Holden have done…i don’t care if its Ford or Holden or not…but they are the only ones to do so…! FACT.

Oh, by the way Ford AUS is actually in the middle of engineering a new ranger/truck platform for the entire Ford world, along with a RWD platform, Holden too with Zeta!

Now i say, if Toyota or any other ‘local’ assembler doing these sorts of programs for their parent companies!?

So open your eyes and look at reality for a change…

As for where you work…Rio Tinto…

Do you drive EVERY make and model, new and used?? EVERYDAY?? for the past 6 YEARS??

Any other assumptions you would like to pass off as fact?

However, you have also not responded with an explanation why Holden or Ford have not been able to offer the Australian community any real reputable rugged off-road vehicles especially considering Holden has a habit of promoting that they manufactuer vehicles for Australian conditions… am i wrong ??

Only knowing Holden in the VT era is exactly were you are WRONG. Ever sense i have left the automotive industry i have always maintained a very strong interest in the automotive arena and the familiarisation of the industry has enabled me maintain a satisfactory understanding of the changing environment. What has helped very much so indeed though is that i am currently employed by Rio Tinto in the mining industry (just west of Biloela)which of coarse employs predominately Toyota vehicles with examples from most other manufactuers.

One thing for sure and that is the humble Hilux and Cruiser remains the most rugged of all with ‘SOME’ mechanics at work starting to question the extended term durability of the new Ford Rangers that were purchased as the interior trims are beginning to lossen already.

I’ve taken a interest in this deveolpment and have noted the solid nature of the Hilux interior to be far more robust then that of the Ranger, Rodeo, Triton but to a lesser degree against the Navara. Now that is from my experiance with Rio Tinto and the environment i work in which to me is the ‘REAL WORLD’ not dressed in a funny suit selling/buying/auction cars and then thinking you know them in the so call ‘REAL WORLD’ that so many clowns like to use.

I said we have FORDS that last well past 200,000 and you make up an answer to my own experience…they are not taxis…your an idiot plain and simple.

You never did answer why Lincoln, which is the same car mechanically as you average run of the mill Ford can match the all mighty Lexus and toyota?? How do they Dingbatt!?

you work in spare parts for 4 years, woopdy doo!

I worked for a vehicle broker company for 4 years, ford and Holden, and now an auction company, with pre-delivery vehicles for the past 2 years…
I have driven EVERY make and model, new and old and i have delt with every used car and new car dealership!

people who have not driven current model cars or don’t drive many makes and models reguarly wouldn’t know what they are talking about, you only know Holden back in the VT era, nothing more or less…

so get over yrself…

you may have auto experiance fella but bear in mind you are also chatting with somehere who also been exposed so your battle will not come much the same as Holdens and Ford’s battle against Toyota. The thing is, i firmly believe that much better vehicles can be purchased elsewhere then from Holden or Ford and for extremely justified reasons.

Here is something else for you to have a ponder of… explain why Toyoya off-road vehicles and workhorses are the most highly regarded and respected of all… it is because of thier ruggedness and tenacy to be a damn lot less troublesome in harsh, rugged, unforgiving, remote conditions. No Holden or Ford has ever even come close to achieving the same reputation Toyota has.

Travel to the lands of REAL AUSTRALIA were the Farmers, Agriculturlist, Miners, Industry Workers and Tradies work tirelessly in unforgiving conditions and what brand dominates the landscape… i’ll give a wee clue – NOT HOLDEN OR FORD THAT’S FOR BLOODY SURE
yet Holden is so pathetic that they advertise they sell vehicles for Australian conditions yet thier reputation is in tatters much the same as Ford.

Now tell the real reason why your fleet cars have travelled so many KM’s… is it because they are Taxi’s that are always warm. Any car that is always warm will always travel a damn lot more milages then a typical family hack. Once again… THE FACT IS, A TYPICAL HOLDEN OR FORD HAS PROVEN BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT THEY ‘WILL BE’ MORE TROUBLESOME THEN A TYPICAL TOYOTA AND THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR MANY GENERATIONS.

Where the hell have youu been… !!

No one and especially myself has said that Toyota quality has improved. THAT HAS NOT BEEN MENTIONED ON 1 SINGLE OCCASSION THAT I CAN THINK OF. However… the fact is Adam is that the quality or refinement of Holden or Ford vehicles DO NOT MATCH that of Toyota and if you like to pretend that they do then you really are the illusional one here and most certainly not myself.

Tell me fella… why do you find it SO HARD to accept that the quality of Toyota vehicles still outclasses that of any Holden or Ford…. ONCE AGAIN (AND I’M GETTING SICK OF MENTIONING THIS) – explain why Holden was rated ‘BELOW AVERAGE’ in everysingle segment. They couldn’t even match ‘PAR’ in anything at all while Ford didn’t fair much better themselves.

Toyota however scored either ‘ABOVE AVERAGE’ or ‘DOMINATE’ in every segment and the FACTS are right here for you to read. Accept it or not i really couldn’t careless but it does not change the fact that TOYOTA ENGINEERING IS OF A HIGHER STANDARD THEN HOLDEN AND FORD AND THAT IS A FACT !!

You know what i reckon… i reckon you haven’t even sighted that leaked Australian Quality Survey … have you!! because no one could possibly be so stupid to pass comment otherwise.

Illusional people are those who simply CAN NOT and WILL NOT accept FACTS AND FIGURES that are colloberated by reputable organisations even by such firms like RAC/NRMA.

And here are some recent examples from ‘MOTOR’ – they published the fact that out of 12 differant variants of the VE that was road tested they were hassled by 12 differant faults including those never ending electrical gremlins were the fan wouldn’t engage no matter how much they played around with the dials but then all of a sudden just burst to life and a bootlid on a Stato that decided to lift by itself while driving along.

Also… remember the Stato that lost a suspension bush as some sort when been road testing for ‘Wheels Car Of The Year’ or the problems they have experianced with FPV Falcons and required towing back to dealerships. And what about ‘MOTORS’ January 2007 edition of the Performnace Car Shootout of 20 cars and the HSV dropped out at a very dismal 18th because it suffered from that common and renouned premature brake fade issue 9amoung other issues). On this occassion it experianced brkae fade after i pathetic, dismal lap… just 1 little tiny lap and no brakes !!

Keep it going Adam because i am really starting to enjoy this especially when Holden and Ford people like to PRETEND AND BELIEVE in wacky ways that they can compare engineering to that of reputatable Japanese companies.

And please explain how Holden and Ford’s reputation not only in Australia but globally become common knowledge and renouned for thier less then desirable quality, reliability and dependability. I suppose you have also been enlighted by Fords latest recall of 3.5 million vehicles associated with the Cruise Control or even the very simple fact that the VE has suffered 3 recalls in less then a full year of being on sale.

Lincoln, its so easy to see who knows cars and brands over who just read little reports, reports who are made for people like you…you don’t even know what Lincoln is!
let me inform you…and this is were your quality argument comes a little undone…

Lincoln is a luxury re-badges Ford sold america and they sell around 150,000units a year, on top of the normal Fords…
so same cars, with different trims and styling but the same mechanically! so how come the scaore is so different???

It’s a rebaged Ford in america…

How many cars have u driven???

me…plenty and all makes and models…

jeez..
when the last generation RAV4 was released, during the wheels testing procedures dscovered the structure of the RAV was not very rigid the door frames were moving in the body frame of the cars themselves…

yes not is all as it appears…

ok…in out fleet EB falcon done 850,000 klm original engine, on its second transmission and diff.
2 ELs falcons, one has done 250,000 no work at all the other 260,000, no work at all.

So what does that prove???? nothing more than what a Toyota can do.

friends of mine owned a 2000 model echo sedan, they simply went to get the windows tinted, when they did they discovered that the tint would scratch off the galss every single time they would wind one of the windows down, why? because Toyota didn’t bother to put soft felt lining along the doors rubbers that contact the window glass! also when they traded up to a mazda 6, the 2.3l 6 was cheaper to service than the echo 1.5l!
Oh yeah what a feeling ‘Toyota’

I understand why Toyota does well, delusional people who still live in the dar ages…and no one markets better than Toyota…

Car 1…

2003 2.4 4cyl Camry Sportivo manual with a 70 ltr tank – just recently drove from Gladstone to Mackay and then to Longreach for a Holiday and acheived 800km’s per tank at either 100 or 110km’s (max speed limits varied)with Cruise engaged (when possible), A/C on, 2 adults 1 child and a full car of holiday luggage… you know hat it’s like with the missus and kids – i take 1 small bag and she takes the whole house. That was using Premium 95 octane.

Car 2…

1994 (gutless/poxy) 2.2 4cyl 4speed auto also with a 70ltr tank and also achieves 800km’s per tank at similar speeds and load but does not have Cruise control.

It is also my understanding that a 3.0 v6 Camry achieves similar milage as a Falcon or Commodore of about 600-650km’s

When i tow – each cars will consume more juice then a truck.

I believe i have used the list to it’s entirity and invite any blogger to persue and read what i have listed above. Bias i may be and accept the ctritism but explain how i am any differant to any Holden or Ford loyalist… i’m not !!

I take it that it is acceptable for a Ford or Holden supporter to be bias but because i support Toyota i’m deemed otherwise. However, it appears (generally) that i have far greater knowledge of Ford or Holden then ‘they’ do of Toyota.

I haven’t had any direct experiance with the EF/EL of which were good cars and certainly looked great in that era but a very close mate of mine (Grant) owned a 6cyl EF (Futura) when i had (and still do as a second car) a poxy 4cyl widebody CSI. The thing is, Grants EF proved over the years to be alot more troublesome then my Camry ever did. They sold it in a couple of years ago because of aging problems and the fact that it was quite thirsty on fuel -tThey purchased a Focus instead.

Before i get into it with recent findings i will (once gain) refer to that god-send leaked Australian Quality Survey. I advice you Adam to re-read it and describe to me how any Ford matched any Toyota… it’s simple, they didn’t. Infact, in some cases Ford and Holden occupied the wooden spoon position of DEAD SET LAST like the Falcon did (Commodore a close second last)in the Large Car sector while the V6 Camry was miles up the list in second place behind the Maxima. Infact, ALL Holden vehicles were rated BELOW AVERAGE in every single segment… that’s right, they couldn’t even scratch AVERAGE in 1 SINGLE thing at all… pathetic.

The most very latest JD Powers reliability findings was only recently published (about 4-5 weeks ago)with Lexus in second postion (behind Porsche as No.1)and Toyota in 7th only bettered by Marque brands except Honda who was the only non-premium brand to be in the top five.

Lincoln however faired very well in 3rd (i think) but that is a low mass produced US only marque not a mass produced brand like Toyota.

Top 5 …

1. Porsche
2. Lexus
3. Lincoln
4. Honda
5. Mercedez Benz

Toyota 7th. – like i said, only better by marques and that can only be expected. No GM brand or mass produced Ford off-shot in the top 10 at all.

Take time and read that TOP RELIABILTY brand listed above… once again Lexus and Toyota make it into the TOP 10 with no mention of Holden (GM) or Ford. Toyota also topped the MOST DEPENDABLE survey also recently published by JD Powers while CNN Money.Com published thier top 47 MOST RELIABLE late last year. Of that top 47 – Toyota and Honda alone fulfilled 32/47 with more of those coming from Toyota then Honda.

The differance between you and me Adan is that i support my comments with FACTS AND FIGURES unlke yourself who has done little more then just cluthched at straws. You want to believe that GM and Ford are matching Toyota but in realilty that have been supported by the most recent findings (not the ‘80/’90 bull shit mentioned by yourself) they are NOT !!

And talking about the best – maybe Toyota really is… have a look at how much respect and recognition Lexus has received in recent times with some absolutely fantastic vehciles that have either just been released or will be in coming months. Infact – it was the LS460 that won the 2007 WORLD CAR OF THE YEAR AWARD … not no GM or Ford that’s for sure. That’s right Lexus (Toyota) currently holds the most honourable automotive award of all in thier very own mittens.