Although, Toyota have made a big mistake with a high powered front wheel drive. It’s all fun and games until the front end locks up then what are you going to do? At least in a rear wheel drive you can correct it very easily, once the front end locks up as im sure it will with such a heavy car (quad-cam, family size) you are going to slide directly into what is in front of you.

And believe me, i’m talking from experience, front wheel drives are clapped out shit-boxes no matter how good the engine is.

ESP and VSC…

thats the difference that stops the FWD vs RWD argument… these systems keep the car on the road, in the direction you want to travel…

that argument is flawed, ancient and now redundant…

Drive an Aurion, flog it, and you will see. ;)

And in regards to Aurion challengine Commodore and Falcon… well, aaah, have a look at the stats… In QLD Aurion just outsold Falcon for the last 3 months, and in creasing that lead. Not “close” to Commodore yet, but getting there… Far and above Toyota’s targets for this stage in the release. ;)

Word.

The vast majority of cars on the road are slower than the TRD and hence the TRD was the logical choice.

Personally i can’t wait to see the aurions in car chases, understearing in corners and having those being chased get away in a crappy RWD.

A good option for Toyota though for the Australian Touring Cars so that they conform with the current regulations would be to team with Lexus Auatralia and run a GS series that is sold here in Australia with a 4.3 V8 (GS430) and… is RWD.

Considering some people are fighting back at the Aurion just goes to show that the car is stirring concern amoung Holden/Ford punters and that is good to see.

The normal Aurion? I wouldnt say aggressively but Ive pushed it in a test drive.

QUOTE = The potential aggressive driving the Aurion will cop will show the lack of front end grip. It’s physics! The wheels steering the car are also driving the car, therefore it will let go earlier than a RWD.

I find it hard to believe you are commenting without bias… you still dont understand the dynamics of a FWD either. You dont floor it throughout a corner… if driven properly, you will have no problems with a FWD when cornering. And grip, word it correctly, a FWD has a higher traction threshold, the problem is a seperation of duties between steering and power. But as I said you drive it as a FWD should be driven its not an issue and around a track just as fast.

Didn’t think so.

Wheels did report it and you say they are biased?! Well lets wait and see if they give it the thumbs up, would you think they are bias then?

Didn’t think so.

The potential aggressive driving the Aurion will cop will show the lack of front end grip. It’s physics! The wheels steering the car are also driving the car, therefore it will let go earlier than a RWD.

Before you accuse me of bias, my previous cars have been a Laser, Corolla, Barina, Pulsar SSS, Focus Zetec and now an XR6 Turbo.
So yes I have owned/driven FWD cars before.

Have a good day.

one important note on V8 supercars is it is a V8 highly controlled spec category. i dont know if production car racing really exists any more aswell.

yes you had your nissans that had a good run for a bit put didnt the tightening of the eligability criteria prove that people wanted to see V8’s running around? i think the success of V8’s wouldnt be as great as it is now if they hadnt done so.
remember ford ran sierra’s to try and compete with the other nimble cars out there (well they didnt TRY to compete with them they actually smashed tham)
if nissans etc kept racing ford would just run something like the sierra again and we would be watching “V6 turbo supercars” every 3 weeks or so.

and my opinion on toyota entering the competition is short answer NO.
you see ford and holden have put up a lot of money to keep this category going and their patriotism of the sport and theirs alone have seen the sport become the 3rd most popular sport in OZ and also the only sport to have international governments forking out big $$ to get them on their turf.
anyone wanting to get in on that success,to me,would be seen as a “johnny come lately”

nothing is stopping them building up their own category of racing

Indeed we are living on different planets… I live on one where we read properly! I said “take a RWD and a FWD car with the same engine around a track and they will get around it in similar times”. As if Id say AWD. Fact is RWD and FWD are both floored, your powering one set of wheels.

QUOTE = Hey, Toyota are the ones that held the Aurion up as an equal against Falcon and Commodore, that was there call. Believe me the person that buy’s this car is just as likely to steer it into a pole (the torque steer will probably assist with that) LOL.

Good on Toyota, I think it will give an XR6T a good run for its money, only 4kw off (but FWD loses less through drivetrain) and I think 50Nm off (word is that it will have 400Nm). As for torque steer, well the cops obviously didn’t think it was an issue… so dream on. Cant wait for some reviews on this vehicle, then I will get each and every post about torque steer…. Name and shame lol

QUOTE = I am willing to wait and see the forthcoming performance figures and track tests to see if they can back up the hype, I’ll reserve my judgement till then.

Well its not really a track car is it… not being advertised as one. HSVs on the other hand are marketed as a car that is capable around a track, yet we see as Dingo has highlighted they are a disgrace.

QUOTE = i didnt know much about the brakes on the XR8’s though what model was that? even so i dont think it would be a need to deter from anything

Don’t know, I believe it was the current model or one before that… highway patrol cops were unhappy with its performance in terms of braking compared to the HSV.

QUOTE = I find it funny that nearly everyone is
knocking the fact that the Toyota is FWD. The thing is, you can have a FWD car go just as well as a RWD car, you just need a severe adjustment in driving technique. The fact that it under steers or patters around a corner is because your right foot is too fat and heavy on the throttle.I know that there are cars out there that are FWD that will out handle and out steer a WRX (I assume that’s the benchmark for handling and steering – I’ve never driven one, just out run them on the track in a car 3 times its age) and drive to only two of the wheels at the front).

AMEN. I honestly doubt a lot of people here, especially those in the RWD camp…. Have ever driven a FWD, let alone pushed it hard. Ive driven both hard and as Steve highlights, if you use the same driving techniques as you do in a RWD then don’t be surprised if you plow into a corner. It’s a different set up, you drive it differently. In a RWD you can approach a corner and power slide throughout… with a FWD you enter the corner faster and power out of it, you power to early and then you will understeer badly. At the end of the day they are both equal around a tack, as RWD are better around slower corners while FWD are better around faster corners… so it cancels itself out. On the street, FWD is superior as due to a higher traction threshold it means better grip in the wet etc, understeer is safer to control for most drivers and they are much more predictable. Here is the article I mentioned in a previous post, you will NOT find any other conclusive answer to this FWD vs RWD debate:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/test1.htm

QUOTE = The Aurion has not faired well in recent tests in the handling department, so I can see this as being only short lived.

Faaark me where is your evidence? Not just one biased report from say Wheels, but some decent evidence to back such a claim up? Im not going to bother finding all the reviews I have previously, but your statement is a total lie… there are many reviews stating that the Aurion is hardly an embarrassment in this department. In fact in one review by Drive they said it had decent handling (Commodore was best) and knocked the Falcon as they believed under uneven (ie real world) surfaces it got nervous.

QUOTE = I thought there was only so much grunt you could put through a drive shaft of a front wheel drive car ,surly they wont measure up to rear /4 wheel drive cars?

Refer to above. AWD yeah its not going to measure up…. But RWD no. YOUR POWERING ONE SET OF WHEELS… and in the case of a front engine RWD you have fark all weight over them. Correction should be it might not be as enjoyable to driver as a RWD… but then either is a AWD really as most have a tendency to understeer rather then oversteer.

Formula 1 however will prove to be an extremely tough task but observe the teams that are competitive – they have all been engineering performance cars for thier entire exsistance while ferrari has been racing F1 everysince day dot. Renault evetually found GLORY but it took them twenty years while Honda has certainly endured it’s ‘ups’ and ‘downs’.

People frowned upon Lexus when they first evolved but have a look at them today – one of the world’s greatest. Toyota will find it hard going entering new performance arena’s but i have absolute confidance they will pave way for success and considering thier global strentgh with out such recognition, i’m sure companies like GM and Ford will sweat it out when the greater respect and recognition of it all comes to light.

I for one will be throwing all my support behind Toyota because if it is any company that can succeed it is them and somehow people like yourself probably recognise that aswell. People have doubted and under-estimated Toyota for years yet have a look at thier shear success and profit reaking today. One of the resaons i have respect for them because they challenge the abnormal and somehow usually make success of it – unlike GM or Ford, the big ‘T’ is not reluctant to travel against the grain !!

Looks tough ……………..but!

All this tree hugging stuff, do we really need it to save the planet?

V8s will always be there for enthusiast ,forever!

Haven’t these same guys just been given on trial a Lotus ?No cost to the tax payer,…………………..what about those ?

Matthew I thought you had gone ? Never mind another post is fine by me.

I thought there was only so much grunt you could put through a drive shaft of a front wheel drive car ,surly they wont measure up to rear /4 wheel drive cars?

Don’t get me wrong Toyotas are great cars,but not up to V8 supercars ,surely ??????????????

Not all of us resented the GTR Nissan back then it had earned it’s respect with many holden and Ford fans as one of the greats as it still is.

Perhaps we whinged, bitched, whined and carryed on because they awarded the win to a crashed car. That’s history.

Toyota hasn’t managed to win in NASCAR or F1 yet which proves you need more than deep pockets, so don’t assume it will come easily.

Personally I would love to see Toyota in the V8 supercar championship, it would give TRD some benificial racing credentials for the Aurion even if it doesn’t come with a V8, it hasn’t stopped NASCAR.

Perhaps the new BMW M3 and Merc AMG would be more appropraite Comparo for the Lexus.

Personally I’d go for the M3.