Chinese Cars Fail In Europe
July 3, 2007 by Alborz Fallah
When the Koreans invaded the car market, their enthusiasm was welcome, but attention to quality and safety was decades behind the European and Japanese manufacturers. Now its time for the Chinese invasion.
Although still under negotiation for an Australian launch, Chinese cars have made their way to Europe, the most competitive car market there is. Fortunately for us, the Europeans are putting the Chinese cars through their paces.
The Brilliance BS6 has dived head first into the European market, and it has drowned. Germany’s crash testing authority, known as ADAC, recently put the Brilliance BS6 under the hammer for crash testing, the results? Horrifying:
As you can see from the video, the Brilliance didn’t exactly score highly (one star). The ADAC tests are very similar to the European New Car Assessment program (ENCAP), which in turn is near identical to our own, Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP).
The video below shows a more detailed report of how the testing was conducted, and just how much effort was required to get the poor test dummies out after the test.
A few European car dealerships have already scrapped the Brilliance BS6 based on the crash results, we only hope the rest follow!
With the Indian built Mahindra Pikup selling in Australia already, we expect Chinese are only a few years away. History has a tendency to repeat it self, and we believe that Chinese cars will follow the same path as Korean cars (and Japanese cars), initially viewed as unsafe and unreliable, they will eventually either overtake or be on par with their European rivals.
Print it: 
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It’s going to take a long, long while before the Chinese get their act together in terms of safety and QA. If you treat your employees like 10-cent-an-hour monkeys then you will manufacture products that look like they were made by 10-cent-an-hour monkeys.
My company has outsourced a lot of IT to the Chinese recently and having worked with them for the past 12 months, I can tell you that they are no better than the Indians, if not worse. Deadlines are made at the sacrifice of quality and design. Corners are often cut and there’s not much thinking outside of the box going on.
OSienna, the poor crash ratings aren’t a QA issue though – it’s purely a design issue, unless the underlying design is fine, and it’s only the poor construction that results in the rating.
While I agree with what you’ve said about the quality of outsourced work, I think it sells them a bit short on design-innovation. Many Chinese ideas and designs fail to pass the test on the grounds of poor execution by the underpaid workers, rather than poor design.
Thank god I’ll never have to stoop so low as to buy one.
A 50 year old Trabant would be preferable…
well, seriously, a used Excel would be ten times as good.
I love the dramatic flying glass shot at the end of the first video :)
But really you’ve got to wonder if the airbags are of any use when the car seems to just cave in like that.
“Thank god I’ll never have to stoop so low as to buy one.”
Glad to hear it, unfortunately there are many who put price before safety.
Squishy, the Chinese have not been known as design innovators in the past century or so… but they’re remarkably good at imitating and stealing other people’s ideas than anything else. The proliferation of counterfeiting and “copy cat” products in China is proof of that – even in the motoring industry.
It’s not really a slur on the Chinese in any way, more of a criticism of how exploitative globalisation is generally. In the IT industry, the Indians are already starting to get expensive and the big corporations are heading towards the likes of China, the Philippines and Eastern Europe. Where does that leave the Indians once they’ve “served their purpose” and been milked for their cheap labour?
I believe in paying decent money for a decent product – even if it means that I have to save longer for it or buying second-hand. Society today is way too disposable. We don’t need to add throw-away vehicles to the list. Too much of that “must have it now” mentality.
Wow, that’s terrible… You deserve to be shot if you put your family in one of those.
OSienna , your on the ball. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
The US Recently asked China to come to the party over Patent infringements. China agreed to co-operate. But will that really make any difference?. At the end of the day should we be really that surpised they counterfeit so much? We give them most of the worlds manufacturing. Its a bit like saying …
“here’s the design and this is how we propose to make it, now you won’t copy this will you?”
“here’s the design and this is how we propose to make it, now you won’t copy this will you?”
Not only will they copy it but they’ll make an inferior version that will undercut you, tarnish your brand with counterfeits and ruin the market for everyone else by flooding it with cheap and nasty products.
With Holden bringing in so many re-badged turds and claiming that “we” Australians want cheap cars and don’t care about much else, these cars should sell like beer at Oktoberfest.
The crash test video is scary. I value my life enough not to buy one.
A total 180, I saw what remained of a Golf GTI on the back of a flat bed tow-truck on the way to work this morning… It was unrecognisable but the passenger cabin was at least 98% in tact.
They might be built in South Africa, but that’s the car I’d rather have a collision in.
pipsqeek
scarily enough steve, the new head of GM Holden is a former head of GM operations in China!
Wonder when we will see one with a holden badge??
or does it have too high a saftey rating to pass as a holdasian?
Lol I was going to say, next Holden Commodore? Somehow I would not be suprised if we did see a 1 star safety rated vehicle by Holden, their image is getting cheaper and cheaper by the day. Interesting to watch Fifth Gears review of the R8 as well, over their Vauxhell (ie Holden ie General Motors) dont seem to have a great image, yet in Australia they are seen as some great company (Completely thanks to the Commodore… because its a locally built afterall….)
I read resently China had just made their 50,000 BMW {they supply to China market only}since end of 2003. So would be interesting to see if their standards meet BMW’s German ,South African and U.S.A factories standards.
The Chinese can make great products IF you find the right facories and watch the standard of quality thats being produced regularly. China making their own cars ? This I have concerns with. As an experienced manufacturer there for 7 years now we have found they are getting better,BUT still require us to show them exactly what we need or we get CRAP. Remember 10 years ago there were next to no cars in China and now,more than the USA. Its growing alright but not in education of Westerns needs and standards unless shown to them.
These people still only get $10.00 a day to work in facory a lot less than Korea or Japan. Car manufacturers around the world now have their cars made elsewhere .
VW have there cars made Poland,Germany,South Africa,Slovakia.
Chrysler,Austria,Germany,Mexico
Holden,Belgium,Spain,Korea,Thailand.
Ford use,Sth Africa ,Germany,Belgium,Thailand,Taiwan,F250 is made in bloody Brazil,and from Turkey comes the transit van.
Toyota ,Australia,Japan and Hilux is made in Thailand.
Mazda,Japan and Thailand
Honda,Thailand,UK and Japan
Jeep,USA and Austria
Mercedes,Spain,Germany,Sth Africa,USA.
Mitsubishi,Ausralia,Thailand,Japan
Nissan,Thailand,Spain,Japan.
Audi,Germany & Slovakia.
Volvo, Sweden & Belgium.
The Chinese need educating just like the Japs did , I mean we use to look at a label and cringe when it said MADE IN JAPAN!! Now made in Japan is quality.
Reminds me of a story I heard once, not sure of its truth… about Japan creating a town called Usa. So when people saw a product, it said “Made in Usa” Because automatically assumed it was U.S.A. And made their decision to purchase said items.
A sneaky trick that apparently worked.
Steve
Steve Jap’s did heaps of stuff like that ,second world war even more so. They changed names on loads of things just so they keep selling to the rest of the world without them suspecting it came from the enemy.
OSienna: “but they’re remarkably good at imitating and stealing other people’s ideas than anything else”
I make no excuses for those ones, certainly. One hundred percent agree with that.
But that’s a slur against the few people who don’t follow that mould. I know a Chinese builder who does some of our renovations, but his designs (which are great) are let down by the poor quality of workmanship of his workers.
Although, I’m not too fussed about the migration of work overseas. I’m a firm believer in the idea that the market will rule. As long as there’s one company who believes in local call centres, for example, they will be the ones who get the customer support, and therefore more business. Likewise, direct marketing from overseas callers are probably less likely to succeed, and local call centres will be more successful. Pure economics.
Westerners are so scared of the Chinese imports. It is a pathetic set-up which has already been protested by the Chinese automaker!! Just imaging if the Chinese cars flooded in like Koreans and Japs. Billions of dollars will be gone! No country can afford that and wanna see it really happening! But it is just a matter of time! Just watch…
people don’t appreciate the benefits of cheaper imports! have a look at the chair u r sitting on, the monitor u r using now, the clothes u r wearing, the furniture in your study room..maybe u can get from other countries. be prepared to double, triple the price so u can sell ur house to afford that!!
Yes, I agree with you there, binladen. People like me don’t appreciate the “benefits” of cheap and nasty imports. Just walk into your local $2 shop and look at the utter rubbish they pass off as merchantable products. What a total waste of the planet’s resources! And they mostly hail from China and India.
I also don’t appreciate the profusion of highly affordable white goods that struggles to survive beyond the last day of its warranty period. They are designed and constructed to expire as soon as the manufacturer’s liability runs out. Damn, they’re so cheap it’s not even worth repairing. Such futile waste.
The other “benefit” we get from these low-cost, low-value items is that it stifles the local competition. There’s no point in trying to market an Australian made product that may be superior in quality, but obviously dearer in comparison, when retailers flood the marketplace with high-margin cheapies that are guaranteed to bring them repeat customers. “Repeat customers” not because they love the products so much but rather because they throw them away after 12 months and need to replace them.
Like I said before, we live in a disposable society…
Squishy said, July 3 2007 @ 8:19 pm, “I know a Chinese builder who does some of our renovations, but his designs (which are great) are let down by the poor quality of workmanship of his workers.”
I’m tempted to say “it’s more than likely to he stole those designs from someone else”… but I won’t cause I don’t know the guy and it’s unfair. But then again, maybe I just did ;)
OSienna, lol… I won’t comment on that ;)
It’s true that we’re in a disposable society, and we contribute to it just as much as the next person. But I think that only extends as far as cheap, low-term goods, and not long-term goods like motor vehicles.
I personally don’t have too many issues if the Chinese and the Indians copy the vehicle styling and design of the rest of the world, because they’ll either:
a) Have problems reproducing it with the same level of quality, and thus won’t get any sales; or
b) Be wildly successful at reproducing it to a similar level of quality/safety, and introduce themselves as extra competition, and we benefit from the lower prices and increased features.
I mean seriously, the automotive industry is relatively incestuous as it is. There are only a few large players who own 90% of the makes, and designs and ideas are copied all over the place. Styling from here, technology concept from there… the industry is entirely based on following the leader.
Hybrids. Reversing cameras. Stability control as standard. Variable valve timing. On-demand 4WD (though that one wasn’t as good, especially in the RAV4). Light-car hatchback design. Prevalence of SUVs. There’s my take on the matter.
wat a peice of shit..i try not 2 buy small things from china.. u wuld hav 2 b a fukin idiot to buy a car with safety score of 1 star..
Re: Bavarian Missile’s comment about Chinese-built Beemers. A colleague was telling me the other day that owning a chinese-built Beemer in China is not a status symbol at all, whereas owning an overseas-built one means you’re loaded.
You know the scary thing is Chrysler have just signed a major deal with Chery Motor Co in China to export chinese made cars into the U.S. ??? Hmmmm i hope they test them before they leave the wharf LOL….
If you watch the 1st video closely, you’ll notice that even after the air bag has inflated, the driver’s head still hits the dashboard which protrudes into the cabin a good 20-30cm’s.
Imagine what the drivers legs look like. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was death involved in a collision like this in that car. If not, you’d be stuck in a wheel chair for sure.
Frankly, I’d rather be strapped to the wing of a QANTAS flight then in that car.
Cheers
Steve
A lot of car manufacturers treat consumers as idiots. There are no cheap cars in Australia. They are mostly sub-standard product of car manufacturers’ deceiving ploy to be used as comparison car. Those so called options such as safety packs are stripped off to make the inflated price car looked cheaper. Then consumers need to pay “these options” which should be standard in the first place to make these vehicle safter.
It the driver who kills, not the car!! How many people kill themself because of drinking or fatigue. have a look at the programme Traffic Investigatition. None of them got killed because of the car. They are either drunk or very tired! Don’t be jealous when new challenge coming from anther country like China. How pathetic it is for Holden to put their marque on Korean’s Dawoo!! Nothing really made in Australia. That is the real problem! Why cars are imported from Jap are increasing although the labour cost is dearer than Australia?? Let me tell u, the margins are huge..More compititions is a good thing!
binladen:
Although I’d agree with you in regards to how cheap everything is, I’ll also agree with how “Cheap” everything is.
Everything is just about disposable these days. It costs just as much to repair something as it does to replace it. I’ve worked in the mechanical industry and seen it change from “fix then, then replace it if it’s truly broken” to “just stop wasting time and fix it, let the customer pay for the replacement parts”.
This is similar with TV’s, computers, etc. Even cars. More cars are written off now then they ever were in the past.
It’s a throw away society. Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer having my old valve amp and my record player, my car with ABS being my right foot/traction control.
Although I can appreciate modern design, technology and I do like my gadgets. I know where my heart is.
At the end of the day you ultimately want to avoid getting into a situation where you get to see if a cars safety features work or not. But sometimes it can’t be avoided, either because of something silly you are doing while on the road, or someone else being stupid.
We can’t blame a car for someone’s death or loss of mobility, but you’d like to think that there are standards that wouldn’t normally allow a car to be sold like this, if it can’t handle a 40km/h crash.
I wonder what goes through the minds of the people testing the car and saying “yes, that’ll do just fine… no one will ever get into a crash like that, so we’re safe. Lets release the car on the market!”
Steve
Steve: “We can’t blame a car for someone’s death or loss of mobility, but you’d like to think that there are standards that wouldn’t normally allow a car to be sold like this, if it can’t handle a 40km/h crash.”
Agreed. I think the most sobering thought that comes from watching this video is after watching it and the Corolla’s ANCAP test back-to-back…
ANY cars that doesn’t meet a reasonable safety standard for the road should not be allowed to enter ANY market period! I don’t care where they were made. How many car companies can you name that had boldly lie to the public about the safety of their products?
OSienna said
“July 4 2007 @ 9:04 am
Yes, I agree with you there, binladen. People like me don’t appreciate the “benefits” of cheap and nasty imports. Just walk into your local $2 shop and look at the utter rubbish they pass off as merchantable products. What a total waste of the planet’s resources! And they mostly hail from China and India.”
I won’t go bashing Chinese goods as some here clearly intended. There is nothing wrong with Chinese/Indian made products or service. There is nothing wrong with manufacturing inferior products in general. What would stop me from opening up a company in Australia offering an inferior product/service to compete against the product/service offered by the company you work for? Where is the argument here? What is wrong with going after a different target market?
If there is no demand then there would be no reason to supply and the demand obviously came from first world nations.
Secondly, take the Indian call centers for example. You can complain all you want but at the end of the day take a look at who hired them. They were hired by western corporations themselves such as Microsoft, Oracle, etc. What do we do now? Should we boycott these western companies? It is the western companies who exploit these cheap labor market to maximize their profits. Does the company you work for exploit these cheap labor market? If not, they probably wish they have the resource to so they can increase their profitability. If yes, then you should tell the CEO what you think of the way the company is run and see how that works out for you.
Consumers will never be happy no matter where the products is made. Now let’s imagine another scenario of the day where cheap labors are gone where every/any country can produced quality items at the same price. In this case then we can assume we will be paying somewhere around $100 for a standard computer keyboard and mouse combo because they were PROUDLY made with the high manufacturing cost at “HOME”. Will you complain then? I have used many computer parts that were made in China and they are still working for years. Will I pay twice as much for SELECTIVE products such as keyboard, stapler, etc made in your country? NO! It doesn’t make economic sense.
“Selective products” are the key words. Of course, I wouldn’t buy their cars until the quality is up to American safety standard. Then I would consider providing that it makes ECONOMICAL SENSE.
QUOTE = ANY cars that doesn’t meet a reasonable safety standard for the road should not be allowed to enter ANY market period! I don’t care where they were made. How many car companies can you name that had boldly lie to the public about the safety of their products?
Yeah I agree… like the 2 star safety rated Barina, they shoiuld at least impose some form of tax or something on vehicles which are substandard to deter companies from attempting to sell them. Although its sad some companies sell them in the first place, obviously a lack of morals to put their customers lives essentially in danger.
Capt. Kirk said
July 6 2007 @ 2:22 am
> There is nothing wrong with Chinese/Indian made products or service.
There is plenty wrong with goods and services produced in developing nations. Allow me to list just a few examples: the exploitation of cheap labour, poor pollution management, shocking QA practices and Australia’s glaring trade deficit.
> What would stop me from opening up a company in Australia offering an inferior product/service to compete against the product/service offered by the company you work for?
Two words: labour costs.
> It is the western companies who exploit these cheap labor market to maximize their profits.
Yes, that was one of my points exactly.
> Does the company you work for exploit these cheap labor market?
Yes, and to the delight of many company executives who see SHORT-TERM profits translating into a higher share price and therefore more $$ when they cash out their options.
> If yes, then you should tell the CEO what you think of the way the company is run and see how that works out for you.
I do that on a quarterly basis when we fill out our employee surveys. Unfortunately, the company directors’ and shareholders’ interests prevail over ours.
> Consumers will never be happy no matter where the products is made.
How is that true? Consumers are usually quite happy when they pay a reasonable price for a reasonably made product that lasts for as long as its useable lifespan, regardless of its origin. I’m only ranting about the proliferation of “junk” sold at bargain-basement prices that’s made to be thrown away and replaced soon as the warranty expires or the next model is released.
My company used to sell products and services that made me feel proud and privileged to work there. Today, all I see is perpetual cost-cutting, inferior manufacturing and poor quality after-sales support. Sure, prices have plummeted significantly in the past 5 years with all that outsourcing but I can’t help but feel that our customers are being ripped off. And not forgetting that my fellow colleagues in China and India are being screwed and exploited…
Its a double edge sword. China is still a young country in term of their place in the modern world. If you think about it, its only been in the last decade that China as a nation has opened itself up to the modern consumerism way of life (There’s no more true communism left in China just a unspoken yearn for western way of life although unlikely… ). China have several decades worth of catching up to do as of current status. The only way that China can catch up to even that of the Koreans level (considered that the Korean car industry is now a major automotive player- Hyundai rank #5) China have to compete agianst other makers on the world stage. Meaning that they are playing Russian roulette with people’s life.
I have no doubt that China have the people power and funds to invest in their quest for a slice of success but the problem is as I have experienced and learned at Uni is that as a culture they don’t see any problem with copying other people’s design.
Asians seems to take the term flattery is a high form of appreciation so it doesnt make sense for them to invest in independent intellectual exploration. They think that if it work for other people then they want a slice of that. If you been to asia you would’ve noticed that certain area would only sell one certain thing only. This is because once the neighbour see that its successful then they will follow without any consideration to long term success. This miss and hit business theory in itself is destructive in term of creating opportunity for growth.
The “close enough” way of thinking is another hindrence to China’s growth. Although that they are good at ‘visually’ copying stuff, the deeper out of sight engineering and design finesse that inherent in typical established manufacturer is something that the Chinese market have not mastered. I like many people would only buy a car if its safe and reliable, but in their mind skin deep will be enough.
DANIEL comment is pretty true. In Vietnam Honda’s motorcycle that are put together from kits sell and rated poorly then that of true imports. They respect japanese products more then usual.
oh well they have another decades to catch up but until they reach the level that the Japanese now rules I will never ever buy one. That also applies to those Holdoo cheap nasty Barina(2 stars safety) and Viva, Epica crap. I rather invest in a Hyundai which i really rate in its own right.
“> There is nothing wrong with Chinese/Indian made products or service.
There is plenty wrong with goods and services produced in developing nations. Allow me to list just a few examples: the exploitation of cheap labour, poor pollution management, shocking QA practices and Australia’s glaring trade deficit.”
- exploitation of cheap labor? we can omit this because developed nations and corporations welcomed the exploitation of cheap labour and how does this translate into that there is something wrong with the product/service itself?
- poor pollution management: and the developed nation polluted the earth for hundred of years before becoming where we are today. YES, two wrongs doesn’t make a right but we are moving away from YOUR initial point.
- shocking Q.A practice? read last par.
- Australia’s glaring trade deficit? Again, what does this has to do with the quality of the general products/service offered by developing nation? Your argument was bashing cheap Chinese goods or simply goods produced by the developing nation. It wasn’t about the trade deficit. You can vote for a different government if you think it will make a difference for your trade deficit and blame your own government for your trade deficit.
This is really off topic but I will tell you a little secret: YOUR government do have the power to reject certain goods if they want (e.g. all plastic container, toothbrush, etc from China/India/Thailand) but they didn’t and ironically continue to import it while complaining about trade deficit. You know why they didn’t reject the goods? Because, THEY NEED THOSE PRODUCTS AND THERE ARE DEMANDS FOR IT IN YOUR COUNTRY. Why didn’t your government ban these goods and manufacture it themselves? Yes, you got it …. it will be far more expensive wouldn’t it?
So what we have here is guys like you saying to the developing nations SCREW YOU AND YOUR GOODS THAT IS CAUSING US TO LOOSE OUR JOBS BUT WAIT WE STILL NEED THE GOODS SO KEEP THEM COMING. OH WE ALSO DO NOT WANT YOU TO PRODUCE IT AT SUCH A LOW COST THAT WILL SKYROCKET OUR TRADE DEFICIT AND THREATEN OUR JOB SECURITY. WE DON’T LIKE YOU GUYS WORKING FOR CHEAPER AND LONGER BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE US LOOK EXPENSIVELY LAZY THEN EVEN OUR OWN COMPANIES WON’T PAY US $200-$300/DAY FOR THE SAME WORK.
“> What would stop me from opening up a company in Australia offering an inferior product/service to compete against the product/service offered by the company you work for?
Two words: labour costs.”
Three words: missing the point.
So if cost isn’t an issue are you saying then, if it was an Australian company that was offering the same inferior product/service to Australian then it would be ok? What is it to you if someone decided to offer an inferior product/service
It should be ok and my point is exactly that. It is okay because a company may decide to make and inferior product sacrificing quality for cost to attract a different target market.
If making an inferior product is not allowed then we should all be driving Rolls Royces. Screw the Holdens, Fords, Hondas and BMWs. These are inferior products!
I believe that the point of all the negative criticism about poor quality / substandard products is that if you’re going to plunder the earth using mostly irreplaceable, non-renewable, exhaustible and precious natural resources to make something then you might as well make it half-decent. Doesn’t have to be of luxury standard but at least worth the amount of energy and resources put in to manufacture it.
The cost is not just in the dollar terms either. Think about it…
To make a point one Chinese maker actually has achieved 4 Star safety rating see here http://www.chinacarforums.com/......php?t=226
Its the Great Wall vargas and SUV based on old Isuzu Axiom platform ;)
“I believe that the point of all the negative criticism about poor quality / substandard products is that if you’re going to plunder the earth using mostly irreplaceable, non-renewable, exhaustible and precious natural resources to make something then you might as well make it half-decent. Doesn’t have to be of luxury standard but at least worth the amount of energy and resources put in to manufacture it.
The cost is not just in the dollar terms either. Think about it…”
Think about WHAT? So you are saying that now all of the sudden the topic has gone from quality issues to about environmental issues? YOU should think about it.
Think about this – if you are going to be racits…why hide it and use product bashing as a cheap excuse?
Think about this – if it was a Western made car that did poorly in the crash test I will bet every penny I have that you will turn a blind eye to it.
Holden – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCAoeFgiiWE
Neon – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
Montana – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
Then when a Chinese/Korean car did poorly in the crash rating then everyone became a prodcut/safety and environmental expert.
Did you watch the Holden crash test? Did you read the posts?
“Isn’t Daewoo owned by GM, an American (not Korean) company? I don’t know where you get the fact that Hyundai cars are unsafe since all their cars in 07 got a 5 star crash test rating.”
“Yes it is a GM company but GM leaves Daewoo to its own accords. GM doesn’t meddle with Daewoo, it lets it do what it wants (well pretty much).”
Let me translate it for you since you obviously can’t read between the lines. The above goes “hey it wasn’t made in the West so it WAS NOT us!! Oh yeah, we do own the company but heck we have no control of it thus you can’t blame us for NOT paying attention to the product they roll out. While I am at it, let’s take a shot at other Korean cars and Google Hyundai.”
For those of you who don’t know about Hyundai and Kia here in North America that they had come a VERY LONG way to where they are today. Their cars today are known to have good safety crash rating and realiability. I WOULD RECOMMEND A HYUNDAI OR KIA OVER A HOLDEN BADGE ANY TIME AND ANY DAY!
A few typos:
“Think about this – if you are going to be racits…why hide it and use product bashing as a cheap excuse?”
racits = racist
“Then when a Chinese/Korean car did poorly in the crash rating then everyone became a prodcut/safety and environmental expert.”
prodcut = product
Wow, capt kirk, are you trying to show that you’re correcting your own typos even before you make the post? Either that, or you’re making the same argument in multiple forums and lost track of where you made the last rant.
Yes.. I was wondering when the “race card” was going to be played. It’s always a good ploy to call everyone a racist when one’s own position gets difficult to defend. If you read the motoring forums enough, you’ll notice that vehicles from all corners of the planet get bagged like crap for all sorts of reasons. Be it poor design, styling, safety or quality. For example (and these may not be views that I share):
* Australian cars like the Holden Commodore (aka “Bogan-dore”) and Ford Falcon are criticised for having low-tech engines and equipment.
* Japanese cars like the Toyota Camry are viewed as having bland styling and an uninspiring drive because it is “whitegoods on wheels”
* Japanese manufacturers like Subaru making “ugly” and “ricey” looking models like the WRX.
* American-made cars (usually ones not imported here) being monstrously big, ugly and petrol guzzling. Americans themselves even consider American-built cars as having comparatively lower build quality (just like us Aussies).
* And, like cars from China, Mexican-made VWs have atrocious build-quality.
Just because someone thinks that manufacturing and design standards from a certain country is exceptionally poor, it doesn’t mean that they’re hiding behind a racist veil. Don’t cry foul when it’s not justified.
“Wow, capt kirk, are you trying to show that you’re correcting your own typos even before you make the post? Either that, or you’re making the same argument in multiple forums and lost track of where you made the last rant.”
My bad.. looks like my browser didn’t refresh properly. Missed the “racist” rant by Mr Kirk there.
“Wow, capt kirk, are you trying to show that you’re correcting your own typos even before you make the post? Either that, or you’re making the same argument in multiple forums and lost track of where you made the last rant.”
If I am making the same argument in multiple forum then I must be really amazing of being able to align my points to specifically debate yours.
What happened to your rant about the dollar store goods and now out of the sudden we are back in automotive discussion?
Get your logic straight.
i wonder where the western world would be today without the four great inventions of china
* Compass
* Gunpowder
* Papermaking
* Printing
regardless, modern day china and certainly its auto industry is way way way behind the 8 ball, and i hope its not going to try and become a serious market competitor anytime soon. Same with india
the thing about india and china is is that theyre DODGY, and they always will be dodgy and not to the standard of the western world.
thats why i laugh when everyone says that china and india will be the next superpower. how the hell can you be a true superpower when 90% of your nation is still living in the stone age.
“What happened to your rant about the dollar store goods and now out of the sudden we are back in automotive discussion?
Get your logic straight.”
Hey, you’re the one who pulled out the race card. I’m just responding to your unjustified accusations. You should go back and read every word that I’ve written – you’ll find that my rant is neither racist, illogical nor unfounded. Most of the “off topic” blabber has been in direct response to your replies.
I don’t have a problem with a healthy debate and a cordial exchange of opinions. I only ask that people refrain from mud-slinging when they feel that the majority does not share their views.
And I stand by my initial statement about too many sub-standard products coming out of China and other developing nations. We’re already unundated with cheap and nasty consumer goods without adding cars to the list. I have yet to read a counter argument to sway that opinion.
“And I stand by my initial statement about too many sub-standard products coming out of China and other developing nations. We’re already unundated with cheap and nasty consumer goods without adding cars to the list. ”
I rest my case. If you want to complain like little girls about anything else then find the proper forum for it. This forum is strictly for cars.
BTW, I can’t seem to find anything made in Australia. Amazing, in the world’s biggest economy here (the U.S) and we can’t find jack of 1 freakin single thing that you guys make. Even your flag is made in elsewhere. You don’t expect us to fight your battle too do you?
> I rest my case.
How can you “rest your case” when you barely even made one? You lost any standing you had when you started calling everyone who disagreed with you a “racist”. Perhaps you are conceding you are defending a lost cause?
> If you want to complain like little girls about anything else then find the proper forum for it. This forum is strictly for cars.
And then you go on about how you failed to find a single Australian-made product in the US, where our national flag was manufactured and how we’re expecting someone else to fight our wars. The pot calling the kettle black, indeed.
> Amazing, in the world’s biggest economy here (the U.S) and we can’t find jack of 1 freakin single thing that you guys make
You obviously didn’t try. Here’s an example that’s automotive-related, Google for “holden export usa”.
> You don’t expect us to fight your battle too do you?
In fact, I believe our Prime Minister actually does. That’s why he’s in bed with Mr George W Bush.
If you want some more examples of why we can’t trust the Chinese to produce anything decent, have a look at a small sample of recent news articles about the appalling system of safety regulation in the Chinese manufacturing industry:
* Toxic Chinese Toothpaste Removed
Sydney Morning Herald, 30 May 2007
* Seafood rejected by US deemed OK for Aussies
Sydney Morning Herald, 4 July 2007
* Toxic Thomas toys recalled
Sydney Morning Herald, 15 June 2007
* US pet deaths sound alarm
Sydney Morning Herald, 28 April 2007
* Inspectors find dodgy Chinese mobile batteries
Sydney Morning Herald, 6 July 2007
* Push to recall ‘defective’ Chinese tires
Sydney Morning Herald, 27 June 2007
That’s just the tip of the iceberg…
And here’s a nice quote from another article today to sum it all up:
“Sally Greenberg, of the US advocacy group Consumers Union, said China lagged a century behind the US in regulating the food and manufacturing industry.
‘You have this engine of capitalism that’s just producing goods and food and tyres, the gamut of consumer products at breakneck speed, and really there’s no system of regulating the safety of what’s coming out of the country.’”
Chinese products incite US authorities
http://www.smh.com.au/text/art.....44538.html
QUOTE = Think about this – if it was a Western made car that did poorly in the crash test I will bet every penny I have that you will turn a blind eye to it.
Not really…. everyone has ago at the 2 Star safety rated Barina. This has nothing to do with race which is the hard your trying to pull, that chinese car is a disgrace… just look at the crash video and how the strucuture completely gives way, any occupants in that car would have been killed as they meet the engine/dashboard whereas in a reasonable safe car they would come out with a scratch. There is no defending that kind of crap.
hard = card
And yes you might say the Barina gets attacked because its Korean, but no because they are selling it as a Holen here and people have a go at it regardless. The reason why not many western cars are attacked is because they dont perform that disgracefully in the year 2007!
Paul, the Barina is a korean car though,
I think we need to disgrace GM Holden for not achieving a five star safety rating for the 1 billion dollar commodore!
^
I already addressed that ;)
Well didnt someone say its because they didnt want to pay along with Toyota with the Aurion to get the side crash test or something like that… which means it couldnt get 5 star? Im not sure how the crash testing works, but thats what someone said a while back. Eitherway MASSIVE difference between 1 star (car virtually collapses onto itself) and 4 star (strucuture holds). But yeah for 1 Billion makes you wander where that money went, fair enough if they had to design an engine or something for it but half of the car is from the previous model!
Hmm…. At least it the chinese can design cars good. only visually lol