Karma to the rescue – CarAdvice comments
July 1, 2009 by Paul Maric
While a great portion of CarAdvice readers enjoy trouble free reading, there are always a few who spoil it for everyone.
After surveying readers and gauging their opinions of Australia’s leading automotive website, we realised a great deal of you are getting annoyed at the comment wars started by some contributors.
Currently only 0.018% of our readers ever comment! Most scared away by negative comments.
We have been working on several systems that aim to curb troublesome, childish comments and we have implemented the system we believe works best for readers and commentors.
Behind the scenes, staff are now able to edit and delete comments with far greater ease. In addition to the new comment modification system, commentors will be able to edit their posted comments up to three minutes after posting, or until the next comment appears.
The best feature of all though is ‘comment karma’. The YouTube style system takes a democratic vote on poster’s comments. If enough negative votes are collected (9 more than positive votes), the poster’s comment will automatically be buried and made invisible to readers.
We believe the the new system will encourage posting within our comments code of conduct and will curb insolence.
Of course, we will still work to remove comments which are offensive and fall outside of our comments code of conduct. The new system will simply bridge the gap we currently face with some commentors.
If you feel a comment is inappropriate, simply give it the thumbs down, if you feel it’s constructive and deserves to stay, give it the thumbs up.
Happy commenting! If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.
Print it: 
So this is this why I haven`t seen them commenting as much, they probably have been but everyone is giving them negative votes and they are being silenced. Good, though I have seen one of them on another site.
anything to help get rid of the stupid *****PRIMO!***** in posts
Good move CA. It’s about time these clowns were put in their place for destroying what is otherwise a fine website.
Bravo!
Oh dear, One of my posts was used as an example of a troublesome, childish commenter. A comment that I thought was a fair observation. (Other than my typo, “Jad” that was meant to be Jag)
This leads me to my point: In regards to this new automated system of deleting comments. If others disagree with your comment it will be deleted even though it is not offensive or deliberately trying to cause an argument.
I am not saying that people who intend to be offensive and deliberately try to cause an argument, shouldn’t have their comments deleted. Because they should, because this ruins things for everyone else.
I am just saying, that this could be detrimental to the site. If you don’t agree with the consensus of the larger group, you post is thus deemed to be unacceptable and is deleted. The freedom to your own opinion is therefore taken away.
I agree.
Most votes are not related to the content of a post but the Name at the top, and those with access to multiple IP addresses are abusing the system.
Yet if multiple people share a common IP address, such as an internet gateway server, they only get 1 vote.
Bavarian Missile™ ^^^^ says “We need moderators on this site watching it constantly not a vote system,its a band-aide for a problem Ive been watching on this site for over 2 years.”
I agree, BM said what I was trying to say just much more eloquently.
I partially agree about their name leading to people automatically giving them negative votes. But I think their biased opinions and their dismissal of peoples opinions against their beloved brand of car almost certainly led to the dislike of them and their comments.
The dynamic IP thing is definite drawback Knowing, however I think the positives far outweigh it. ^_^
Each comment that gets “hidden” will be reviewed by our Staff daily. So no legitimate comments will go missing.
The comments will also be moderated much heavier now.
The thumbs up and down system is simply to inform us of any inappropriate comment and hide it until we can review it.
I thought that the thumbs up/down was a way of agreeing or disagreeing with a comment NOT a way of reporting spam?
Just because i disagree with someones comment it doesnt mean that i want it deleted of the site..
Oh well, you’re the boss!
haha i don’t care if my comment get’s reported as spam. spend a week at yahoo answers and you’ll get use to it
Slashdot (www.slashdot.org) is one of my favourite sites and seems to have the best comment/moderation system I have seen anywhere. Comments can be mod’ed by members as Insightful, Informative, Funny, Troll, etc. And for general viewing you typically see in full only the higher rated comments. Other comments are headers only, but can be expanded.
Any member can post a comment, but you only get mod points (and the ability to rate someone else’s comment) after you acquire mod-points. This comes by posting good comments of your own.
I’m a regular reader of CarAdvice (several times a day) but I seldom post as I can be frustrated by the sea of dumb comments and/or personal wars that follow some articles. And I have to admit, I’ve been both guilty and a victim of this.
On the other hand, even with its occasional flame wars or dumb comments CA is one of the best car sites anywhere and many of the comments following *are* insightful, informative and/or funny.
I think a voting/moderation system is a good idea but the current system hasn’t really helped.
I’ll look forward seeing how this progresses.
Cheers
I have noticed that people have (what I can only assume) been using the system as an agree / disagree system. I too thought that was the basis of it, thank you for allerting me to the difference.
I had noticed some people had been given thumbs down for simply asking a question, so one has to be aware that there are some who pick names rather than commnets to be voted out.
I appluade the idea behind the system, and am aware of the troubles trying to keep it civil because not everyone can play nicely. I will accept the failings until such times as someone can come up with a better mouse trap. THis is the only non brand specific site I go to these days and would like to keep it that way.
Kudos to you guys for trying to raise the standard of comments, however there’s a fine line to be tread here. Who deems what is appropriate or inappropriate and measuring by what standards? The examples you gave above did not strike me as inappropriate at all; granted they’re not overly informative, but neither are they inflammatory or insulting. Perhaps you should clarify whether those are examples of what you are trying to stamp out.
“Currently only 0.018% of our readers ever comment! Most scared away by negative comments.”
Do you mean negative towards other posters or negative in general? If a comment merely needs to be “negative” in any way to be targeted by the censors, then your percentage of commenting readers will drop much lower than 0.018% as participants run from the thought police.
Better to teach with the carrot than with the stick. Maybe think of more ways to reward informative, insightful, or gracious posts than to punish undesirable ones.
My $0.02
I agree with one of Frontman’s points. A few days ago, I pondered whimsically whether Vauxhall still has its Guildsman concept that Matchbox made a model of. I got a thumbs down. Like, whoa there!!!! Was that for letting my inner child out? Was it the mention of the challenging colour pink?
Otherwise, if it encourages people to think before they write, that’s good in itself.
You can use the Thumbs up and Down to agree or disagree with comments based on what they say (not because they break the conduct) – however by simple law of logic, if a comment is informative, the agreement disagreement will even out, and no more than 10 people will disagree compared to those who have agreed.
We are currently testing the new system. If large numbers of legitimate comments begin to get covered we will review the system.
Agree with BM that a lot of thumbs downs are being directed at the person posting, not the actual post.
You only have to look at some of the insulting posts that may only get a couple of thumbs down, whereas a completely legitimate comment from a couple of regular posters get many thumbs down, plus an insulting post directly after it.
I can’t help thinking that most of these problems could be stamped out by having “Registered users” and “Guests”.
C’mon CA where is the REGISTRATION option that we have been asking for for years??
Alborz, I think we all agree with the concept, and look forward to it’s refinement.
Well, something needed to be done, and I think so far, so good. Agree that a lot of Thumbs Down ratings will be based on personalities rather than comments, but every system will have some down-side. Kudos for being innovative and let’s see if it works. I have already noticed a downturn in the silly slanging matches, which is cool.
I have often been caught up in silly slanging matches myself – admittedly, some of my own doing, but sometimes you can cop an absolute bollocking just for posting a personal opinion that someone doesn’t agree with. The biggest problem is when you dare to comment that you’re not a particular fan of a certain car, then someone who owns, or worse still, has just bought that car, sees your comment. Woo hoo, stand back and watch the fur fly – they take it so personally.
I still shake my head at the amount of time some people spend on here involved in silly, petty brand wars. I’ve seen some arguments go on all night, and into the next day, arguing the same stuff again and again. I just can’t believe that people would choose to sit behind a PC all day and night arguing over the merits of one make of car compared to another. Each to their own I guess, but what are they gaining? Most of the time they have never met, or are likely to meet the person they are arguing with, it just doesn’t make sense.
Knowing – There are a lot of drawbacks with the “registered” system that discourages casual readers to ever comment. Usually the ones with the most insight. However if this system doesn’t work as expected, we will investigate that option.
its a good step in the right direction to clean up the site from the flaming, language, holden/ford battles, toyota haters or differing opinions to writers…… ;)
Im sure CA is hoping it will present a cleaner faced site for prospective advertisers in their aim to commercialse the site, which is good in that we should get more conent :)
still a great site though
Alborz, what a registration system does is protect registered users from others posting under their name.
But I do agree that it needs to be optional – you shouldn’t HAVE to register, but you should be able to choose to protect yourself from the likes of the mongrel formally known as (shhh) d-i-n-g-o.
Making the registration optional does not, in any way dicourage the casual poster.
And BTW, I find it a little offensive that you think that regular posters opinions are somehow less informed or insightfull.
But I don’t see how giving a “registered user” tag to those that want it, so that they can protect a unique identity from being plagerised, would have any negative impact on the casual/once off poster.
There are sites out there that have registered and unregistered users.
I applaud efforts at trying to stop silly snide comments.
Most issues only start when the comments stray from the article itself.
I think most of us do try to keep to the topic and not deliberately needle other readers/posters.
let’s give the new system a go – however the negative side of this system can impinge on free speech, so care needs to be exercised.
WHAT! CarAdvice…forshame!
You have taken the fun out of the comments section… now it will be like a discussion with a bucket of paint.. WHITE paint.
Mr & Mrs Prude-Bland will be happy with this outcome however.
DesignEng, yes that is the next option along our path to have a working comment system.
Articles should have the thumbs up and thumbs down feature. Then articles with an excessive number of thumbs downs can be hidden
It’s good to see this attempt to tone down some of the more aggressive and pointless comments that get posted here.
I’m sure some people would have been put off posting comments because they were afraid of being ridiculed or abused simply for holding a certain opinion.
This isn’t just a CA problem – look at any site where you can comment, look at a topic with a lot of comments and almost inevitably the comments tail off into heated arguments that are often way off topic.
i believe its a good system. power to the people.
Thanks Alborz
I guese we’ll just have to make do until then.
“Currently only 0.018% of our readers ever comment!”.
Alborz, I’m curious to know how that figure was calculated.
There are some articles I will check back on several times as more comments are added. Does each page reload by me count as a view?
Also where I work has several thousand employees, so there is a potentially large, unknown number of people who access CA via the one IP address of the gateway here. Are you able to count them individually? Do other staff here commenting make it look like I’m posting under several different names?
Anyway, for what it’s worth, I think a registration system is a good idea, with registered users and anonymous users being able to post comments, but only registered users able to vote comments up or down.
A “Report” button would also be handy. That way a comment that is spam, offensive or really really dumb can be flagged so a site admin can delete it and/or remind the poster about the Code of Conduct.
Interesting. But, If people are not commenting in good faith, I guess no system will stop them.
Look at BM’s comment made in ‘Mini Cooper D welcomes new Toyota Prius’ article, and you will know what i mean…
ChineseDriver, I believe that the post was made in “good faith”. However it is clear that many votes are not. Thanks for confirming how YOU vote (for the person not the comment).
Well the system is working ,notice my comment no longer has the voting system ! Last time I looked it was 27 against to 19 for .
It was a test, Driver, to show that a name change makes a difference in votes.
In case you dont know what it was about ,I went on as Gudgeon Pin and so far have 9 thumbs up and 1 thumb down ,then I went on as Bavarian Missile to say just that and got the thumbs down .
The test showed we were right, in that people are voting people down not comments . Then again if your post is on topic and has substance and not offensive all the thumbs down in the world wont get it deleted. :)
One problem I see with the 9 negative votes threshold before your comment is hidden is the ratio of the votes.
If you get 9 negative and no positive then yeah sure (maybe?) hide the comment. But if the votes get to 99 negative and 90 positive then there are a lots of people who agree with the comment.
Perhaps a better system would be if 66% of all votes are negative and a minimum level of voting had occurred (say 24), then action is taken to hide the post…
The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of posts being hidden simply because people disagree or dislike the poster.
There have been plenty of opinions posted I disagree with, but they have generated follow up comments that I did agree with or found interesting.
CarAdvice would be a much less interesting website without passionate people defending what they believe.
Negative votes based on who made them is I guess thats what happens when people lose respect for someone based on their previous moronic posts.
I quite like the voting system but believe it is too open to corruption. The problem is that one could theoretically open an internet explorer window, a firefox window and a google chrome window, thereby tripling their positive/negative voting ability. Then it they have computers at both work and home, they can do it all again.
Democracy falls apart without the proper controls.
Bavarian Missile®™,
I know, I think you are right. I admit I tend to give a negative vote when I see your name. But, are you sure you are not doing the same thing to other people?
The same thing is happening to me more or less.
Or are you saying, for other people who are getting negative votes, they deserve it. But if you get a negative votes, its must be people are voting you down because your name??????
I think it’s just a human nature, they don’t like you, so they give you negative vote, but who can you blame really? It was yourself who established this character ‘Bavarian Missile’, isn’t it?
Quote ” Negative votes based on who made them is I guess thats what happens when people lose respect for someone based on their previous moronic posts”
Or it could be they are male and dont like being beaten on automotive knowledge by a female :P
Charles,
Yes that’s what exactly what I wanted to say.
Well I doubt its based on anyones gender, I know it makes no difference when I vote and to be honest I wouldn`t know who is a guy on here and who is a girl and I don`t care. My votes cast are based on whether I think its a worthwhile contribution to the topic.
I used to post on news group aus.cars years ago. I gave up after the flame wars outweighed the useful information from some very informative people.
When I found this site I was impressed with the journalism but also to maturity of the posters. Latley some posters have made it less mature.
To the sites authors: Good luck with this proactive step implementing the above scheme. I think some people forget that its YOUR site resulting from YOUR hard work and research. You are to be congratulated in your efforts to defend it’s reputation.
If this works, good. If not then there’s always another option.
Just out of interest Charles how would you rate this comment?
charles Says:
June 4th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Gee imagine if they banned Chinese crap where will you Holden boys get your beloved Commodores from lo
I understand your thoughts now ,as you have just said
quote ”
Negative votes based on who made them is I guess thats what happens when people lose respect for someone based on their previous moronic posts.”
Couldnt agree more :)
Good stuff Car Advice. I think you guys are on the right track with these changes.
Well where would they get the crap from? I think they are crap and thats my opinion.
I like the casual comments because some articles on CA are just advertorials and the commenter’s usually flush it out and add real life experiences. It is not uncommon for me to read the comments first and see if the article is worth reading. I would hate to see these comments removed just because they disagree with the article.
I frankly you guys have to many staff and to much spare time at C/A…..
Get out and test more cars and products that will keep you busy, we will look after the joint while your gone!!
Rubbish posts should be deleted as per your C.O.C and any that are marked down should be modified and reposted, as long as it meets the C.O.C. it should stay, 9 neg votes is not a reason to remove it as long as its in the C.O.C mantra.
BUT like all the others, i believe the mark down is because of WHO is posting it and not actually WHAT is being said.
I am so GLAD all you guys love me!
I still want a test between Falcon and Commodore gloveboxs!
Cheers
F-0