When will you buy Australian-made again? | Car Advice

Car Advice

When will you buy Australian-made again?

By Alborz Fallah |

It’s not often I’ll write a piece on the car industry as a whole, frankly I’ve only been around for a few years and I’d much prefer to sit back and learn a lot more before commentating. However given the current situation, I felt the need to write something.

Those of us heavily involved in the car industry view the current situation in two ways, some see it as the beginning of the end of traditional manufacturers whilst others, like myself, see this transition period as the best thing that could happen to the industry.

In any normal manufacturing company, enormous time and energy goes in to research and development, the R&D team along with the marketing team are meant to work out what products, in this case cars, is the market demanding and then begin the long process of designing, manufacturing and then marketing.

For vehicles this is generally done several years in advance, new cars that you see being released today were designed several years ago and it takes a long period of time to go from a concept to a full production ready car.

So then, the likes of GM, Chrysler and Ford all had an excuse given the three-four year delays in concept to production. They can say they didn’t see the market trend coming quickly enough.

Ford Falcon G6E LPG

However, here is where it gets interesting because if any R&D department can honestly say they never thought fuel efficient, smaller cars would be popular, they all need to get fired, although it seems they pretty much all have.

Japanese manufacturers have been setting the trend for smaller cars for decades, so what took the Americans and more importantly what took us so long?

What is Holden going to do given that GM has all but dumped the G8 in North America? Are the Australian sales helped slightly by the shrinking Middle East market enough to sustain the Commodore’s future? Apparently more than $1 billion was spent on the development of the VE Commodore, is there even another billion dollars to spend on the next Commodore?

None of us want to see the Commodore, Falcon or Aurion disappear. These are all Australian made cars and even though they may not live up to our full expectations, we still have that semi unconditional love for them, but just how much longer will that last?

Eventually private fleet managers are going to start realising that the Mazda3 or Toyota Corolla will do just fine and more importantly taxis and government fleets are all slowly going to move away from the big family cars.

So, where now?

Ford Australia will eventually build smaller cars here in Australia and that’s great news. Holden will no doubt do the same in due course. Toyota has somehow managed to convince the federal government to give it millions of dollars to build a local hybrid car it was already going to build anyway, but there is still that lingering question of if the big three can sustain their local production.

General Motors has all but sold Saab and Hummer, two non-performing brands. Holden is lucky to be the backbone of many of GM’s operations so it’s safe for now, however times can change.

The purpose of writing this article isn’t to speculate on the local car manufacturers’ future but it’s  because I want to know what Australians want from their local car makers. Why is that we’ve all ran away and abandoned our own for foreign imports (myself included)?

Are Australian cars that far below the standard that we can no longer even consider our own? I talk to so many new car buyers that would have bought a Commodore or Falcon 10-15 years ago but now don’t even consider it as an option.

Brand values have also changed, driving a new Mazda6 is now more prestigious than driving a new Holden Commodore. This is a shift that has taken place over the past 10 years but if local manufacturers are to survive, it needs to shift back.

As Australians we are generally supporters of the underdog, did Holden and Ford get big enough for us to neglect them?

What will it take for you to consider Australian built cars on par with Japanese and Europeans cars?

Can you see yourself going back to an Aussie built car in the near future? Why or why not?


 
  • Tim

    When they match Japanese and European offerings not only in ride, engineering, styling….but also reliability.

    So not in the next 20 years.

  • Sund00bie

    Pass!

  • Damian

    I don’t understand why consumers continue to tolerate the poor build quality of our local Falcadores. Is it insularity, blind patriotism, ignorance, or a combination of all three?

    I am not disputing the fact that they give some of the big name Euros a run for their money when it comes to dynamics and overall driveability, however, poor build quality; bad after sales service; and a general reluctance to adopt fuel saving technology speaks volumes as to how complacent GM and Ford have become.

    Whether the domestic car industry deserves to survive, should not be dictated by the Australian Government. In a country which seemingly embraces free-trade, we should remove all tariffs on imports and let market forces dictate who gets culled. If Ford and Holden really are “world class” as they so eloquently claim, then they have nothing to worry about.

  • Brett

    I have not owned an Australian built car since the early 1980′s; and I have no intention of buying one in the future. I doubt that I will ever own one again.

    I briefly considered the purchase of an FPV F6 earlier this year; but one visit to the local Ford dealer was sufficient to convince me that it would be a very poor decision. The salesman behaved appallingly, and treated me as if I was a fool. I really wonder whether the local manufacturers realise the extent to which the behaviour of their dealers acts as a barrier to consumption.

    • Steve

      I too have not owned an Aussie car since the 80s having owned a variety of euro and Japanese cars since the (BMW. Subaru. VW). I was however very impressed with the Ford G6ET which I almost bought. However like Brett I was dissapointed by the sales person (high pressure tactics) and there were some small things about the G6ET that bothered me in the test drive. Things like a dash with instruments that refused to fully illuminate A drivers seat that looked as used as a taxi’s though it was a low Kay demo. Hard plastics (though an improvement to Falcons of yore) There were things that I was impressed with of course such as the sheer size and refined ride. But ultimately it was the little things (that the Euros and Japs pay attention to) that made me turn to yet another non Aussie car (VW). I think that GM and Ford still makes (or sources) fundamentally great cars (particularly Commodore and Falcon). They just need more attention to detail. Who knows I may return one day.

  • Jimbo

    Perhaps when they start making diesel Focus’s in Australia.
    Falcadores, no thanks! When it is my hard earned, I will buy what suits my needs, not just blindly buying Australian.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    When was the last time the rest of you owned an Australian made car .

    Ive had numerous over the years,all in the performance sector and still think they offer great bang for your buck.

    Only thing they could improve on is the service.Quality has improved leaps and bounds over the last 10 years and is continually improving.

    So my answer YES!

  • SteveH

    I came very close to buying an FG XR6 turbo late last year but just couldn’t do it due to build quality concerns.

    No one can argue that for the money, you can’t beat the locally made stuff, its just the lingering question marks about how well put together the locally made stuff is.

  • Captain Mainwaring

    This is going to become an extremely lively topic, fuelled by a lot of patriotism and even more blind bigotry.
    The inescapable reality is that there are two main reasons why Australia cannot remain for long as a serious world manufacturer of cars:
    1. The domestic market is far too small.
    2. Australia is not a low-cost manufacturing economy.
    Bloody Hell, the local carmaking industry has only survived as long as it has by producing the kind of big cars which are no longer in favour, propped up by Government subsidies.
    Yes, Holden plans to build the Cruze, and Ford OZ the Focus, but how can this work when their up-against-the-wall parent companies have to compete against less expensive, much better quality competitors like Hyundai i30, Mazda3 etc. who are operating off a lower cost base as well as having far superior R & D?

  • Tim

    BM, no question they have improved and yes they have ‘bang for your buck’ but that doesnt mean anything when they still remain unreliable, undesirable (maybe they are to a selected audience) vehicles. Why would you buy one when you can get a similar package in a better vehicle from Japan/Europe for the same price/lower price or a few grand more.

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au/ alborz

    Thanks guys, keep them coming.

    Interesting comments about the Ford Dealership situation.

    What car did you end up buying Brett?

  • Tomas79

    Ignoring the poor build quality, the local manufacturers just don’t have anything i would be interested in. I’m just not interested in a large sedan. And especially a low thrills one at that.

    Captain Mainwaring Say:”The domestic market is far too small”
    Well make a world class car, for the world market!!
    lets be honest, australia isn’t that unique from rest of the world!!

    Captain Mainwaring Say:” Australia is not a low-cost manufacturing economy”
    But neither are most 1st world manufacturers around the world!!

  • Wheelnut

    Tim says: When they match Japanese and European offerings not only in ride, engineering, styling….but also reliability.

    Sure they mightn’t be as “reliable” as some of the imports [in the short-term] however they do last longer because they are mre suitable for Australias unique conditions etc and are cheaper and easier to repair and maintain than the imports.

    Damian: Show me a Country where their Automotive industry isn’t protected or financially suported by the Federal Gummint – they all are because the gummint knows how important they are to their economy and what the impact would be if those 1000′s of jobs were to disappear.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Iam on Thomas’s side a tad….the quality is tad less with Aussie cars and if they want to compete then they have to lift up the quality and manufacturing a fair bit.

    Take my other halfs new Falcon….glovebox fell apart with way inconsistent gaps around glovebox lid to dash, seat trim on floor on drivers side very poorly joined to rest of plastic trim, and trim on C pillar passenger side very poorly executed. Then hinges on doors that joined onto prone to rust as trapping water as poor panel joining were water ponds. Then we go under bonnet and rust developing around radiator. Overall the car is a quantum leap, still short on were it should be and quality a tad low in my opinion. Trivial yes – but the issues are poor manufacture and not real good!

  • Wheelnut

    Brett – you think Ford Holden customer service is bad;
    They’re not the only ones.. Let megive you an example of what happende with my brother in law at a more prestigous dealership

    When my Brother in law was looking at buying a new car we visited the BMW/Mini dealer in Parramatta.. we stood in the showroom for at least 5 minutes without anyone coming to greet or help us.
    It wasn’t until my Brother in law called the dealer on his mobile and said “excuse me but I’m interested in buying a Mini Cooper S.”
    The person on the other end of the phone asked “where are you?”…. my brother in law replied “at the other end of your showroom” the salesmna spotted him – my brother in law then waved and walked out

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    And the shortcuts with boot and protruding hinges…a car this price should have boot underside lining to finish it off as afterall this is a 33K car. Whilst at it ditch the steel wheels and throw on some alloys! Car otherwise is a great step up….still too old Falcon and bonnet is too flat and long and not curvy and round and thereby makes one think it will grow old quick (as in car grows old on you quick)…wont age well!

  • Shak

    Spam word DIESEL. The one thing that will save our industry. I have owned aussie cars for the past 20 years all Commodores. and not one has had any issue. I mean not a single issue. People will always have issues with their cars because it depends on how they drive. Our industry has to survive. if you dont want aussie, dont buy it beacuse someone else will buy them.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Wheelnut……..thats symptonmatic with most businesses at times. You probably just were there at a bad time as happens from time to time with businesses. More to point most have slack service to assist customers and even more slack knowledge of what they actually are selling and what they know of product.

  • Jake

    We have purchased a Camry V6 sportivo back in 04… the car was so poorly build that is not funny…bumpers didn’t match the body..electric window switch fell inside the door…mismatched trim and plastics inside the cabin…when I have complained to the dealer they response was “they all like that” So no thanks I will never buy another Australian build car ..thank you

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    lets put another spin on this.why buy an IMPORTED car?most of the good ones are so pricey those on middle income or less will never be able to afford them(merc,bmw etc).most are far to small for big/tall people,then there’s the korean/thai builds they EVERYONE seems to talk down,and that leaves jap built,and some of them are really tinny,and noisy as well.as for aussie built,well as least the warrenty dept is well trained.i think a flash house is much better than a flash car,and hey,it generally goes up in value…

  • demonaz

    @ JEKYL & HYDE

    What the hell are you on about?

  • Matt

    Wating on my XR6 Turbo

  • jeremey

    my mum will allways buy australian falcons and when i get my first car it will allways be australian made and owned allways ford my mum and dad ahve owned more then 15 falcons amd my brother is buying a falcon this year

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    demonaz,

    the article is “will you buy aussie again”.some allready did…

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Tim what in a large car that does a quarter mile under 13.5 and 0-100 under 5.5 sec can I get from Japan or Europe for 60k new !

    Remain unreliable and undesirable is that a fact my dear or just your own opinion!

  • Wheelnut

    Maybe NM but you would think that being early on a Saturday Morning – which is when we were there.. that would be a car dealers busiest time and that there would be salesmen patrollng the dealership and the yard on the lookout for potential customers.

  • Left Lane Lover

    Wheelnut,your brother in law sounds as though he is as big an idiot as you seem to be.

  • Tomas79

    Bavarian Missile,
    There is more to owning a car, then just stupid quarter miles!!

    Bavarian Missile;”Remain unreliable and undesirable is that a fact my dear or just your own opinion!”

    Well it is a common opinion held by most!!!
    And I’m jet to find a survey/study that proves otherwise!!

  • Robj

    As a long time Aussie car owner (Kingswoods/Torana/Monaro/Bluebird/Pintara TRX & Magnas) I can say all of these cars suited my needs at the time and gave me great ownership experiances. Last year was time to upgrade. I considered Commodore SV6/Mitsubishi 380 GT/Nissan Skyline and I ended up with Subaru Liberty. What a superb car. I’d like to buy Aussie next time if there is an option to do so? Not sure there will be?

    Regards,

    Rob

  • outlook

    they have to lift the game and improve the quality.even koreans are better than locals
    (miles ahead).Australia’s most breakdown cars title by RACV,NRMA is not helping either.

  • Left Lane Lover

    Robj,
    Nice chioce indeed,I can’t see you going back to an Ozzy car after your new found driving experience.Enjoy your Suuubi.

  • I6orNothing

    I probably will take the plunge again. I own a BA XR6 Turbo (5yrs now) and funnily enough it is still hanging together. All these negative comments on so called inferior build quality just don’t wash with me. I’ve had company camry’s and the like, and they rattle around just as much as any other car after a few kay’s so peddling the line that the ‘Jap’ cars as so far superior is just crap.

    The XR6 still runs fine, haven’t had too many major issues with it. For mine it’s not the product but the dealer networks that need some attention. I’ve shopped around a few dealerships as from my experience there are large costs every service but I don’t always see the value for the spend. I have also tried independent servicing (via Ultra-Tune) but they also are left wanting..but that’s another story.

    Anyway…short answer…yes!

  • http://integra dreamer

    Never ,learnt the hard way in the past , now spoilt by japan/euro .

  • ChineseDriver

    Holden Cruze, Viva, Epica and Captiva are all great aussie cars, lets all buy more of those to support local industry.

  • pugphile

    My first and last encounter with an Oz built car was an XD fairmont…totally forgettable. Lousy build quality etc. My last ‘local’ was a ford telstra with 2.5 v6. A fantastic vehicle for my requirement of long-ish freeway trips with ok fuel economy but the service at the dealerships was what put me off ‘local’ cars altogether. My limited experience so far has been very good with mazda, toyota, subaru and even peugeot. I have not yet heard the phrase ‘that’s what they all do…’ from these guys yet…

  • outlook

    If Australians were cared about the quality then ford or holden won’t be here today.they survived because of fleet buyers(80%) and some diehard fans never cared or concerned about the build quality.however the time has changed.

    • Darrell

      Yep ,
      allways had second hand fords , most always rusrtd out.
      A taxi guy i new got 350K out of an XD falcon before a new engine + gear box.
      Fleet stuff kept ( keeps) the market going

  • outlook

    The bottom line is to be survived you must built world’s class quality cars and able to export it to the world.do you really think any car maker would survived by selling around 3000(local made) units a month locally?

  • nobody

    If I were in the market for a muscle car and didn’t have a care in the world (that if money is no obstacle), I’d definitely buy Aussie.

    For now I’m not. And I don’t buy cars based on whether it’s true blue or not. Just whatever suits my needs and tastes and right now I don’t need a large family sedan. Don’t need a medium car either or a Ford SUV.

    Fiesta Zetec looks tempting but that isn’t built here :(

  • http://chrisduran.eu/ Chris

    I think that peoples awareness and concern for the environment as well as rising and unstable fuel prices are making Australians start to look for different feature sets when buying a new or used car. I know that what I look for in a car now is a lot different to what it was only a couple of years ago. And the situation is only likely to become more volatile.

    I know that the Australian car industry does have its offerings in the small car dept and I can’t speak on much authority on how they fair against other companies’ offerings in the same class, but perhaps the iconic Commodore and Falcon will slowly become a thing of the past. Which is okay in its own right, times change.

    I personally would take a bit of convincing to buy an Australian car, but that is more due to my personal experience with Australian models compared to the Japanese models I have owned.

  • Talib

    For me, I’ve never purchased an Australian made vehicle. And unless they build something desirable I probably never will.

    The other thing is, there isn’t much choice when it comes to buying an Australian made car… that is, all the Aussie manufacturers offer are family sedans/wagons; and of course the Territory (nothing desirable there!).

    I think they really need to broaden what’s on offer, the market place has obviously evolved, and not all Australian’s are looking for a family sedan these days.

    So what do I want? I want something engaging to drive, with good performance figures. Safety features, and fuel economy would also be a big influence on my choice… then of course the styling and quality; something with the Q-car factor.

  • Danman2

    Good question AF..

    This is probably too complex a question for this format (more a 4000 word thesis) but the problems are (in my opinion, read that again… In my opinion) more socio-economic than product driven. As stated earlier.. the Falcon is good to go. You could retail the FG Falcon in the US and Euroland and it would meet it’s sales targets, i’m sure.(I’m using the FG as an example here because the Commodore is what? 67% ‘foreign made’?and you stated Aussie car). So therefore the ‘problem’ is one of perception and marketing (one leads the other). Both are very poorly done by Ford and Holden.(where’s the bloody diesel Territory? GTHO? 2 v6′s for Commodore? 4 speed auto? WTF) Maybe it’s because potential customers parents either had a Ford or a Holden during their formative years and who wants what they had? The social expectation is to do better than they did in the seventies and eighties.A Mazda 6 or Honda Euro is social shorthand that you have achieved that status. Dont blame me, I didn’t make these rules.. Maybe it’s the really badly driven ‘wing and wheels’ EL,VT,VL’s that keep cutting you off in traffic therefore creating a negative stereotype? Maybe ‘Brands’ have a natural lifespan like people and just die out after 80 or so years.. they (FoMoCo and GM) were made by people so they have to have human characteristics…

    Personally. After flogging 1000′s of various cars and makes in my former life as a Car Salesman (Booooo!)for the last 3 years of that career I would only sell Asian manafactured vehicles… quality concerns were one less thing to think about. It was just the little things, they really seem to try harder. Some countries just do things better than others ( I loved the M3 I had but visit a German resturaunt? Nein!)and Australia needs to accept that while it has many,many,many talents mass producing automobiles is going to be referenced in the past tense shorlty..

  • F6

    Bloody oath I will definatley buy another great Ford ute. My AU XR6 ute has done 300,000 hard working k\’s and has never let me down. My borther has an FG ute and it is fantastic, no probs after 53,000k we both will buy another Aussie made Ford.

  • DGS

    Holden and Ford making four cylinder front wheel drives just like everyone else on the planet is not going to be a winning formular in the long run, especially if they are at premium price.

    both Ford and Holden have decades experiance in refining their rear wheel drive cars. The market is heading towards 4 cylinder petrols and diesels and to retain relevence both Ford and holden should offer the same. I would recomend both companies look into the prospect of a corolla sized 4 cyl rear wheel drive at a competitive price to a corolla, this would be an offering different from all other manufacturers’ small cars except BMW.

    Australians seem to have a soft spot for rear wheel drive cars, capitalise on it.

  • DGS

    Oh, and if holden make a 4 cyl petrol / diesel rear wheel drive corolla sized car, make sure the engeneers accidently leave enough room under the bonnet for a V6 for the future “sports” model.

    A good name maybe something like…… Torana????

  • nemo

    Chris and Talib are on the money. I’m 25 and what is putting me off purchasing a 6L V8 is the fear of being an environmental terrorist. Sure it’s fun to drive, meets my performance criteria, but 18L/100km is ridiculous.

    I bought a Golf GTI because, at the time, I couldn’t fit an XR6 Turbo sedan into my apartments parking space! I’m glad I didn’t as my friend has had his ute back to Ford at every service for diffs, exhaust brackets, auto programming, etc. I here the VE is better in this department. Aussie cars in the 80′s seemed to match or better the Japs, yet now we can barely match the Koreans.

    There is no “that’s a clever idea” to be found in any local cars, that “surprise and delight” factor; the build quality is not world standard; the sales staff are rubbish (but that is probably reflected in their salary) and I’d prefer to pay for 98RON fuel and use less so I sleep easier at night.

  • Top Gear

    Having worked in a Toyota dealership for 3 years I wouldnt be bragging about superior Japanese quality. In fact I was quite surprised after hearing so much about the high quality and reliability of Toyota’s. Electrical problems, cracked cyl heads and blocks, high oil consumption, suspension noises ……………and many tow truck pick ups of broken down Toyotas.

    Support our local industries you so called Aussies. I am taking delivery of an FG G6E Turbo in a few weeks and I cant wait. There is no other car that can match its mix of style comfort handling performance economy great looks ergonomics for such a good price, why dont you Jap lovers go drive one and see for yourself how good the FG is.

  • nemo

    A “torana” would suit me too!

  • Hjalle

    In 06 we moved to AU and had to buy a car, we bought a Holden Adventra and we have found it great (we even extended the lease) but at the start of the year the lease was going to run out so we had to go look at cars, we went to Holden and looked at their Sportswagen Calais V and the interior was just so low on quality in my opinion. For the same money you could go down to your Volvo dealer and buy a XC70 wich has a great a looking and feeling interior. We didnt even bother to look at the Falcon Estate because it is so old. So in my opinion AU needs to improve on their interioir quality and update their cars.

  • AussieCars

    I will for my work ute. Nothing in the world compares to the commodore/falcon as a drivers ute. My VZ Sandman is a great drive, looks great and Im always getting people come up to me asking if its a ute. Plus from all my Utes I have owned I have never had a major issue. The biggest problem I ever had is the bluetooth on the VZ would not sync with my nokia and I had to get the software upgrade for the bluetooth system in the car. Had to wait around a month.

    As for my family car its another story, Mazda6 is on the cards at this stage….Still a year off before the Magna(nice build but crap to drive) needs replacing.

    Thing that I hate about the Mazda6 is its so damn expensive with all the options we want…. 46,000+ delivery can get you alot more car/smiles from the local offerings. But I like the Mazda 6 and the misses loves it.

    The utes my drivers car, family car I play nice in =)

  • Danman2

    Top Gear….

    What do you want me to do? Buy an inferior product so someone i have never met(or will ever meet) in Victoria or SA can keep his job? No one does that.Maybe buying a Chinese car would be patriotic because they buy all the iron ore from Australia so i would be supporting the Aussie miners… OK thats extreme but see how far that logic can go…

    The FG6E turbo is great,sure, but one ‘outta the park’ hit does not a brand make. Keep the k’s low because it will be classic in thirty years.. the next GTHO? LOL.

    Also don’t use Toyota as being representitive of Japan. As a whole they still lead the game.

  • Elitist

    LOL just read this post…

    Where do I start?

    When you want to show you’ve made it you drive German/Italian….
    When you want a reliable great all day car you buy japanese.

    I don’t know where redneck cars like Fords and Holdens fit?

  • omgwot

    As long as I can buy an Aussie made RWD I will continue to buy them. If they were no longer made I would look at the AWD offerings from Subaru. Quite simply I don’t like driving a FWD

  • Danman2

    Aussie cars…

    Get the Mazda 6. You will remember the quality long after you forget the price. Such an awesome poster child of a car for everything the Japanese do right. As for the price, see a broker, they will save you big time.. in fact see two. Get the middle model? (they all really drive the same and the ‘options’ is where the dealer makes the margin).

    Plus happy wife equals happy life!!

  • Dazed

    There are some terrible missinformed oppinions in this forum

    Fact is, Commodore is still the Top Selling car in Australia every month – that means no other car meets the needs of Australians as much as the Commodore does.

    In the past few months, the car market in Australia has fallen by 30% or more and yet Commodore & Falcon sales have fallen by only just under 5%.

    That actually means people are turning away from small cars, SUVs and other imported cars.. and returning to Commodores and Falcons.

    There is a lot of made-up hype in the automotive media to fill blogs and websites..

  • Dazed

    .. Danman2 .. I assume you are referring to the previous generation Mazda – went to see the new generation Mazda 6.. boy that car is heavily hit by cost-cutting.. materials and switch feel have dropped significantly.

  • Danman2

    Dazed.. re-read your first sentence again, please.

    Mazda 3 was top selling car in Australia 3 times this year so far.. if memory serves. ‘Drill down’ and it’s probably the real Aussie car. (your local council will never have the sp23 on it’s fleet).
    Whats more remarkable is those big numbers for the 3 were achieved with run-out then a new (no discounts)one.

    “Fact is, Mcdonalds is still the Top Selling resturant in Australia every month – that means no other resturant meets the needs of Australians as much as Mcdonalds does”.

    Put like that, the argument doesn’t sound so good, does it?

  • Tony

    FWD large sedans are shit so forget about Aurions.

    FWD 4 cyl. large sedans are even worse. Forget about Camrys.

    What I don’t like it the insistence of Ford and Holden to upsize.

    Avg. family is still 2.2 kids right? I personally think Falcodores swinging towards 1.8 tons and more (in the case of the sportwagon and HSV/FPVs) is the wrong way of going about this.

    If you’re gonna do that you may as well get a 2 ton diesel SUV 7 seater and have some practicality.

    IMO the big three need to move to 1,5 ton cars with direct injection motors, perhaps turbo, perhaps AFM, perhaps LPG, perhaps turbo diesel with 6 spd transmissions.

    TC, DSC, 5 star ncap should all be standard.

    With the world moving towards three levels of small car (eg. Hyundai i10, i20, i30) you’d think the least they’d think about downsizing their best selling cars.

    Where did that 2004 Torana concept go?

  • Steven

    I think one of the problems lies in the lack of innovation in Aussie cars.

    We are a clever bunch when we put our minds to it.

    How about a decent performance Cruze with some innovation such as a slightly jacked up ride? BMW are capitalising on this niche with the X3 and X6 so why not innovate for Aussie buyers?

  • Daniel

    Build Quality – Honestly sit inside and cast your eye over the misaligned mismatched dashboard and interior trim, you can’t tell me it was put together someone blessed with sight.

    NEXT

    Surprised no one has mentioned this one RESALE VALUE!!

    Jesus every 3 minutes the price of Commodores or Falcons drop, It happened to us when we bought our Territory! Then just try and trade one of the bastards in in 3 years time it’s worth 40% of what you paid for it!

    NEXT REASON

    Features/Value – Holden “Australia”, Ford “Australia”, I would like to introduce you to R&D get acquainted VERY quickly you have a lot of stuff to catch up on. Honestly, Xenon lights people, rain sensing wipers, dipping passenger wing Mirror when reversing, front and rear parking sensors, heated seats, LCD screen for radio, duel climate control, DIRECT FUEL INJECTION (too far?). These are things a 65k car should have, if VW can do it….

    Why the hell can’t we lead the way? Honestly it\’s not that hard.

    FYI a few months ago I had to buy 2 new cars for the parents.

    I ended up choosing a

    Volkswagen R36
    and a
    Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart

    They are thrilled with both!

    No Australian car even made it onto the radar!

  • gazinwales

    I for one will definately be buying Australian.

    I am in the UK and moving back Australia after 7 years away.
    I never drove when I had previously lived in Sydney.

    I have have had 5 cars whilst living here;
    Escort 1.8TD – not bad
    Astra Estate 1.7 DTI – good on fuel
    CRV 2.2 CDTI – Brilliant to drive lacking power
    Vectra 2.2 petrol – absolute junk, changed it after a month
    Mondeo estate 2.2 TDCI – great drive, very nippy

    I am looking at buying a Xr8 Falcon UTE, couldn’t afford a big engine car here, fuel is double the price in AUS.

  • Technofreak

    Will never buy OZ made cars, sorry. Just don’t like the bogan image…

  • Pious

    I might if I wanted a ute. I find the interiors of Oz cars (even the expensive ones) tacky and gauche, with poor quality materials, and generally just an unpleasant place to be. A few years ago I looked at getting an XR6 Turbo against an s60R, but by the time you added the options in (decent steering wheel, wheels, leather, stereo, etc) it wasnt much cheaper than the R which was IMO a far nicer car. I also like to get something not everyone else has, but if it wasnt for that, and if I was on a budget of less than $60K, and if I had to buy new (I’d rather spend that on good second hand Euro), I’d probably go Oz.

  • average joe

    My father was burnt by an early model Holden Camira in the 80′s and treated like radioactive dirt by Holden.

    It’s a long way to come back from there and until build quality and warranties stack up to or surpass japanese (or even korean) made cars, then personally they won’t get a look in.

    What Holden/Ford don’t realise is that they have managed to position themselves where a lot of startup asian car manufacturers were a decade or two ago – where people don’t trust them or their quality. Various asian manufacturers have focused on quality and provided very long warranties to try and overcome this with reasonable success. Will be interesting to see what Holden/Ford attempt.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    What Aussies want is:
    1. Lighter cars (this does not mean smaller size)
    2. Lower fuel consumption
    3. More aerodynamic
    4. Choices other then gas guzzlers (i.e. diesel, LPG, smaller supercharged and turbo options that pump out power and have genuinely great fuel economy)
    5. People want to see value and not options so more included as standard
    6. 6speed autos and significantly better gearboxes and not just rubbish bolted on cause accountant states to cut corners
    7. More safety items included (ESP)

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    8. Better seats as most have no side support as truly cheap and rubbish foam installed with little bolster
    9. Hybrids or electric cars
    10.Smaller turbo charged diesels (like i30)

  • Pious

    Add in a very long warranty – that seems to be the seller for a lot of people buying the Kia type of car.

  • http://skyline The Salesman says Culture “is” the problem

    Bret,
    I think you hit the nail on the head. Sales and Service. I don’t think it’s the product at all. The local manufactures and dealers just don’t have the sales systems in place. They believe they deserve your business and therefore don’t think they need to work for it. I have been appalled at just how far backward the locals are in Sales and Service. And their seems to be no changing their minds, the mentality seems to be “beat the same drum” and if that doesn’t work than “beat it harder and faster”. This is a very 1980’s way of doing things that simply does not fit in with today’s modern world. Japanese and Germany dealers sing of a different sheet and it shows in the numbers. I worked as a sales manager for two major Japanese brands that had me sign a confidentiality agreement on my appointment stating that I would never disclose their sales systems. They need to get the old dinosaurs out of the management chair and bring in some new blood before things are going to get better.

  • Shane

    I have always owned Aussie cars and will continue to do so. Where I see the biggest change is the level of finish and the quality of the products. When I first started driving 7 years ago there was always (and still is) the cheap Falcodore, middle range, performance and luxury. Of course each step up meant additional features to the car i.e cruise control, power windows etc. Then the new Mazdas, Toyotas and Hondas started appearing with most luxury options as standard. Ford and Holden did not really budge unless either one included something new. The base model Falcon and Commodore have only recently got standard cruise, power windows etc and I don’t know why it took so long to do so. The new model Japanese cars continue smash the Falcon and Commodore for features at a lower price, so its understandable that people are buying the imports. As noted in the article it is more luxurious to ride in most new Japanese cars than a Falcon or Commodore and they are cheaper to buy. Imagine if the G6E and Calais were the base model cars at the base model prices how well they would sell.

  • ScottT

    I dont think its just holden and ford dealers that are the problem its all of them. Especially the mutli-brand francises. Just terrible service all round. Dealers may be giving a away some cheap cars atm, but they are certainly recooping it with expensive servicing, spare parts and charging people for warrantable items, buyer beware.

  • AussieCars

    @Naughtyius Maximus

    Good list but I disagree with 3 items.

    5. The locals dont seem to give any less kit than the overseas competition. And there a hell of alot cheaper to option up.

    7. Locals arent lacking in this area either. Many have actually said the ESP in the VE Commodore is one of the best out there. Falcon and commodore both have 5 star rating.
    Most safety features (including ESP) are standard across the range

    8. Its usually the daewoo built offerings from Holden with the seat issue. In all my utes I have had great seats

  • http://www.formalcars.com.au/index UrbanGTB

    I will buy an Australian car when they build a medium size car, RWD with 200kw+. No one wants a big arse commodore or falcon anymore, as previously mentioned where did the 2004 Torana Concept go? They should have made that and maybe Holden would have been in a better position right now.

    Imagine a small block V8 in a medium size car like the old days, that’s what people want right now but the Aussie manufacturers are too late.

  • Motorhead

    Brand perception & image rather then product is Ford & Holden’s main stumbling block rather then actual product. Too many people have outdated, simplistic views on them that don’t match the reality.

  • HAL

    Good topic for discussion, but you were never going to get a straight asnwer. Just a quick scan of the comments shows that it really does depend on exactly what purpose your car will be serving. For example, I probably wouldn’t go for a Ford or Holden in terms of their big 6′s – like SteveH I was seriously considering an FG XR6 turbo, but just couldn’t get to the stage where I felt comfortable with spending near $50K on a car that really felt like a taxi inside, no sunroof even as an option, and the rough, almost ‘jumpy’ idling of the demo car. No thanks.

    But then when I was looking for a work ute some time ago, I got a new VS Series III ute, stock standard except for the wheeels. Absolutely loved every minute of owning that car – wasn’t the best quality wise, but that’s not what I bought it for. So that’s my point.

    What would I like to see from Holden/Ford? Fuel efficiency, quality and variety I guess. The argument that others have mentioned of, “Hey, at least you get some grunt and good bang for your buck” doesn’t really mean squat to the average car buyer. Most consumers aren’t looking for a car that they can get a good quarter mile time for every now and then. When you think about what 80% of people need from their cars 95% of the time – it’s a pleasant, fuel-efficient, reasonably high quality driving experience in a daily-driver scenario. Pretty simple really, and one that I get everyday from my Mazda 6. I am in the 20% who would like some more grunt every now and then, but for 95% of my driving time, the 6 is just fine and something I have been happy to live with.

  • Goodfa

    I have owned Commodores all my life and will be replacing my current one in about 4 months.

    For the first time in my life I may not get another Commodore due to quality issues.

    I will get a VF SV6 with 3.6 DI if Holden can give me some comfort that they are finally on top of there quality issues(a 5 year warranty should help) otherwise there will be Japanese made car in my garage for the first time.

    For starters Holden have to admit there is a quality issue and fix it as they always seem to say there is no issue with quality.How are they going to fix the problem if they do not think there is a problem in the first place.

  • charles
  • Toxic_Horse

    Give me 4 cylinder RWD !
    a nice coupe shape please.

  • http://caradvice CraigMM

    My current car is a VY2 acclaim which I bought used.After 2 years nothing has gone wrong. Having owned an Ea ford previously, the commodore was obviously a revelation. But I drive this car around waiting for something to go wrong, because it is Aussie built. With all the faults that can occur with Holdens and Fords, I can’t help thinking this way.
    My wifes 8 yr old Jap built Pulsar (bought new),has been faultless. My feeling is with this car that it will never wear out.
    Most of my cars have been japanese, and I’ve never regretted owning Japanese

  • Andrew

    ChineseDriver, none of the cars you listed are Australian built cars, infact, they’re all Korean!

    Pugphile, the Ford Telstar V6 is not an Australian produced car. It was a badge-engineered and mechanically identical GE Mazda 626 produced by Mazda in Japan. Variants of the Ford Laser/Meteor were produced in Australia.

  • Hagar

    I am a proud Australian. When it comes to spending money on something that is high cost and not a house I would like to buy Australian. But I still need to see & drive other cars to compare against. Having had Falcons as company cars I know they are ok. But for far less money I can get something far better. So I just bought an Imprezza R. Much safer with more air bags and AWD good build quality and reasonable economy & performance for only $25k. Maybe ozi car builders will go the way of ozi TV builders. Leave car making to people who can do it better jap/Korean and lets support other ozi companies that are world class (primary rural producers/IT/Mining/Engineering etc)

  • Roadie

    I had the pleasure of driving a rental FG XR6 last Xmas and was very impressed with the ride, roadholding, highway fuel consumption and performance.

    While I wouldn’t have considered one 5-10 years ago (preferring Mercedes C-Class) I would now. BUT, not until Ford have a direct injection LPG model. Fuel prices will rise again and big sixes are just too thirsty around town.

    My main point though is that Ford (and Holden) could be doing so much better if they put together some decent marketing for LPG (surely they can get the Federal Govt to do some of their own too). LPG is a fantastic alternative for Australia but has a lousy image.

  • Nick

    I am in the market right now to buy a car. I went to a ford dealer and in 10 mins decided to leave as the sales guy was a total D!!K. I than ended up buying a Lexus GS430 the same weekend. The reason. I was treated like a king and the sales guy talked sense …… Manufacturers have to take ownership of this and get rid of these mindless creatures.

  • Andrew

    Put simply, we just purchased a new car, the choice was going to be a Mazda 3, untill we found out that its was going to be 40k on the road, we went the holden dealer, and bought an SS which is put together much better then the 3, the leather seats dont have zippers running up the back of them. the commodore has softer feel materials used through out the interior and unlike the mazda which is only soft upfront, and also the commodore looks like a car inside.

    And now onto the dealers the mazda dealer was telling me how his product is superior to anything holden has, and holden will no loinger service australia as the along with GM have been bankrupt. they also were not interested in do a deal.

    The holden dealer was the best cars salesman we have ever been to, he couldn’t have helped us anymore if some held a gun to his head… and he knocked nearlly 7K of the price.

  • insomniac

    I agree with Toxic_Horse. RWD, Medium 4/5cyl forced induction – and something with a little more shape than a shoe box. Where are all the coupes gone? There has to be more to chose from than FWD econo-shopping cart or tank.

  • Damian

    “Falcon and commodore both have 5 star rating.”

    The Commodore has a 4 star rating.

  • Road Warrior

    It’s been said, but one of the biggest issues is the way dealers and servicing treat customers. Holden and Ford have this “talk to the hand, bitch” type mindset with regards to warranty claims and this sort of attitude is remembered by customers long after they have parted ways with their car. Hence they don’t go back to Holden/Ford again and buy Japanese because most Japanese marques have a different management mindset.

    The build quality that all the nitpickers get so uptight about wouldnt be so big an issue if the dealer network (and henceforth, the parent company) took warranty claims and quality seriously. They treat customers like they are liars.

  • Danman2

    Andrew… did you ever wonder why he knocked 7k off the price?? The next two months will knock another 7k off it quicker..
    No way is an SS commodore better built than an SP23 luxury.I wasn’t going to reply but could not that fly.. An Sp23 doesn’t cost 1000 bucks a year to rego. Hiroshima (where the SP23 was built) is one of the best factories in Japan. Mazda will be here in ten years time, let alone one, unlike Holden.(oh and those zips, if you had asked, enable you to remove them to get them cleaned during a service. very handy with kids)The stereo in the Mazda was designed hand in hand with Bose… that attention to detail is a bit sad, yes but thats what makes the Mazda one of the best ‘Australian’ cars there is.. This isn’t my opinion, I dont drive one now, but the market says it is.

    But hey, you met a nice salesperson, so what I say isn’t important I guess.

  • Frontman

    What I am seeing here in these comments is a large amount of ignorance. Sorry to offend all but if you honnestly believe the build quality to be better in the imported cars then it is a sorry state that you live in. In my job I get to see all types of warranty claims from all manufacturers and rest assured that whilst sure 20 years ago the Australian cars had more trim complaints than the imports it is not that way now. Sure bring on the JD Power surveys, even the “leaked AC Neilsens one that came out after FOrd and GM dumped them as contractural QS survey providers. If the imports are so much better than the Australian product then why is it harder to find reasonable examples that are 5, 10 & 15 years old and not showing undue signs of wear and tear.
    Look I know that the large majority of you will just say I’m wrong and don’t know what I’m talking about but seriously get out from behind your screen, go down to the local westfields walk around and look at the carpark. Compare equal aged cars and the state they are in, the poorly built unreliable Asutralian product is standing up pretty damn good especially when take into account the driving habits of new Citroen Peugeot drivers compared to the guy who gets a company Falcamrydore.
    As to why you feel this way it purely lack of national belief, nothing really substantial to base those beliefs on just hearsay (predominately from the marketing groups of the other manufacturers)

  • AussieForever

    I drive an Australian-made Holden. I concentrate of enjoying life rather than if someone thinks I’m a bogan for what I drive.
    It’s done 600,000km and goes like the day I bought it, 22 years ago. Never seen a Holden dealer since.
    Who cares if a button breaks on the dash. How hard did you press it?

  • Goodenough

    We have recently gone the other way. My wife and I have previously both mostly driven Japanese (Mitsubishi, Nissan, Suzuki) with one Korean (Hyundai) thrown in the mix, however due to recent business and lifestyle changes we have both changed to Ford (My wife a Territory and myself an E-Gas Falcon) I was hesitant, as I have always thought that the Japanese manufaturers made better, longer lasting cars with better resale value (The Hyundai was also excellent and I would buy another) but after a lot of research and many questions these were the only cars that fitted in with eveything we needed at this point in time. I do not belive the build quality is as good but so far no problems with either of the vehicles and I’m extremely happy with the space in both of them and the economy of the Falcon. The E-Gas Falcon fitted what we needed for space, comfort and economy and the Territory TS with seven seats is easy to use and live with on a daily basis and excellent for towing our van. It would be a shame for cars like these to be discontinued because there are people out there who need the space and power offered by these type of cars at a reasonable price, however I do beleive that the build quality certainly needs improvement along with economy (Apart from E-Gas) and emissions.

  • Talib

    Hi Frontman,

    I really, really, really do disagree with you. My friend has a mk1 BA Falcon, apart from the clear coat peeling off the roof/bonnet/boot, the front bumper has also fallen off; apparently the lower part is held in with some little ‘lugs’ that just work themselves free over time.

    The interior isn’t fairing to well either; the plastic around the bottom of the seats has come apart, the glove box doesn’t shut, and the hood lining is starting to drop.

    This isn’t a family car either, but rather a Falcon owned since new by a single female; so I think it’s fair to say she hasn’t been thrashing the thing.

  • Danman2

    Hmmm, frontman… That statement stands out.

    “Look I know that the large majority of you will just say I’m wrong and don’t know what I’m talking”

    Oh no, we can say worse than that.Trust me. ‘Westfields’ car park? Your blinding me with science. LOL. Which one?

    Re-read your first sentence again, please.

  • Frontman

    As for the surveys, when actually doing the phone around on for a Korean manufacturer I found a lot of the warranty complaints (that would have upset me no end) were brushed off by the customer as being you get what you pay for. THings like door trim cloths seperating and falling away, seat trims splitting, AC evaporator drains clogging and flooding foot wells weren’t seen as a problem by the customer, even when a certain manufacturer had V6 engines being rebuilt / replaced in it’s people mover it was acceptable yet oil consupmtion on a gen3 was worth crucifiction. Crikey I have even met people with huge oil consumption issues on V8 diesel landcruisers who are happy to accept that “the problem is being looked at” yet if a light bulb blows on a Falcomodore then all mary hell breaks out. these are actual real life situations that I have seen not something I have read and as such I put more belief in them.

  • Tony

    a 2003 BA Falcon should not have those issues.

    Any 6 yr old car used in the avg. Australian urban environment should not have those kinds of wear problems.

    eg. everyone has friends with Japanese cars from the 1990s. Do you see those kinds of issues on them?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Talib……..sounds like your friend doesnt maintain her car.

    This also has big bearing on ANY model ,if not maintained and looked after correctly of course it will look worse for wear.

    Oh and what is being female got to do with anything……They tend to be the worst when it comes to looking after their cars . Look at all that pink fluffy stuff they have all over their cars and hanging from all knobs and handles. Most women have no idea how to respect a car properly.

    Ive been in many a BA Taxi and none of those seem to have the paint falling off them and the roof lining falling down.

  • Brett

    Alborz,

    Passat R36 Wagon.

  • Danman2

    Agree Frontman but Kia carnival v6 was a small player in the scheme of things (hundreds sold per month) while the 5.7 Gen 3 debacle (thousands sold per month, remember vt was king of the hill) was because Holden made some very silly claims at the time (98?) and really shot themselves in the foot. Also Ford got wind of it and talked it up big time because the VT was thrashing them in sales.. My god ten years seems like forever ago.

    Both Domestic and imports have made huge advances since then. Thank god.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Tony yes I do ,and thats my point,they dont look after them.

    Recently saw a 98 Crusier with paint falling off that and bits falling of it,does that mean all Crusers are crap……no just the owners dont maintain them

    Ive had Aussie Muscle Cars for 25 years and some of those cars are 35 years old ,the roof lining still original and intact, interior like new,why cause they are looked after ! Even though I had my car painted back in 1993 it wasnt cause it needed it,actually the guys at the body shop looked at me and said “why do you want it repainted”

  • Howie-R31

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    June 10th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    “Only thing they could improve on is the service.Quality has improved leaps and bounds over the last 10 years and is continually improving.”

    Quality? I used to Have a VL commodore for a few years. It was a twenty year old car. In NA form I never had one single issue with it whatsoever. Yet I work at a Ford dealership, and everytime we have even VE’s in here, there seem to be things that need fixing/replacing etc (and no the Falcons aren’t much/any better).

    So in relation to build quailty, I disagree with you.

  • Howie-R31

    Oh and yes I put down then build quailty to the fact it had a NIssan engine :p

  • Tony

    Bavarian Missile, I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘looking after’ cars at all

    i myself have driven locally made toyotas and mitsubishis inc. older company cars out of lease

    given minimal care (ie. occasional washing and vaccuum) they last 10-15 yrs with no cosmetic blemishes outside of carpark dents… certainly no paint peel

    i honestly cannot say the same thing about falcodores of a similar age

  • RockNRolla

    Unfortunately Oz only builds large cars with high fuel consumptions:

    Falcon, Aurion, Camry – 9.9lt/100km and Commodore – 10.6lt/100km (Not to mention V6T and V8 engines)

    I don’t think I can afford big car these days.

    Can you see yourself going back to an Aussie built car in the near future? Why or why not?

    Yes maybe – when they have locally made Camry Hybrid, 4cyl Commodore, Ford Focus or Holden Cruze.

    I’m in the new car market at the moment and looking at 8.2lt/100km Mazda3 Maxx Sport, 6.5lt/100km Golf 118TSI or waiting for 3.9lt/100km upcoming Prius.

  • Frontman

    The Salesman says Culture “is” the problem Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 8:26 am
    So you are going to tell me that the process set down by your DP for your franchise are different than those for his other franchises??

    It’s a funny thing that the majority fo sales staff working at these franchises that treat people so much better have all spent time at and would happily go back to the franchises you all hate. Also that most of those better franchises are run by the same people that run the bad dealerships. The biggest difference is that the Lexus Salesman selling the GS had just made $800 > $1,000 com and was spoken to wuth dignity and politeness whereas the Falcamryodore sales person was looking at $50 >$75 com and was spoken to as if everything he said was a lie. Hey people these aren’t made up stories theese are facts garnered from playing with cars and customers for over 20 years. But hey those of you who have bought mybe 10 cars in that same period may well know better than I. (for the record I am no longer contracted to any 1 car manufacturer, instead I do work for several imports and Australain)

  • Frontman

    Tony true a 6 year old car shopuldn’t have those issues, and I have caught countless Taxis with way more than the average 6 year old cars abuse given to them without any of those issues. If they were an issue and unreliable why is it that whilst Toyota has tried several times with several different vehicles (Avalon Camry Prius) the largest percentage of Taxis in Aust are Falcons? Price? No Avalon was a Sub 20k Taxi Pack when BA2 BF was over $28,000.

  • Tony

    specious argument frontman

    by your reckoning commodores are inferior because they aren’t used as taxis

    one of my friends runs business taking care of taxis – his premises is full of white BAs

    if you have a team taking care of your fleet all those problems are swept under the carpet are they not?

  • Golfschwein

    To answer the question directly, I would consider a VF Commodore Sportswagon with SV6 appearance, Morpheous metallic paint job and a 2.8 to 3.0 litre VM Motori turbodiesel under the bonnet, mated to a six speed auto.

    It might also pay me to put aside my memory of a brand new VS Commodore company car that was the least reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned or driven. Maybe I should also put aside my suspicions of VE Commodores’ electronics reliability.

    Hmmm…

    Ya know what? Australian makers should learn to take the long term view. Holden’s gone very quiet about turbo diesel Commodores, and was probably influenced by diesel’s wacky pricing from 6 months ago and beyond. Now, I can typically buy the oily stuff for 3 cents a litre cheaper than standard unleaded, so I’m feeling super, super-smug when I fill the Golf up nowadays.

  • Frontman

    Tony, nice retort but falls short on the simple cost effectiveness facts. The larger majority of taxi licences are owned by single entities (ie 1 or 2 licences max) and they work on the fact that time off the road is time without money. If Falcons were as bad as you and others are making out and that the other brands were tath much better, then would not you, as a smart opperator use brand x instead? Or is it, as I am saying, that the others are not better than the local product and due to little things like running costs and spares pricing then the Locals are the choice?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Tony fleet cars are maintained !!!!!!!!!!

    It makes a world of difference to car that is left outside in the weather 24 /7 and no mechanical work done when required.Take the advice from someone that comes from a workshop background and saw first hand what was done to the Government fleet vehicles,more than you think to keep them in good order!

    I see a lot of E30 and E36 BMWs that are falling to bits from the mid 80s and 90s and I see some that are in excellent condition even for high ks. Why cause some are maintained others arent touched except when they breakdown.

    Mate its all the same paint in most cases,all two pac and applied the same way .

  • Scotty C

    I’ve owned a couple of Commodores over the years and think they look great but unforunately the build quality is not there. Why can’t we build to Euro/ Jap standards? In my office there is a VE Calais, 2 VE SV6′s and a VE Caprice and the things are literally falling apart. The Calais has had the carpet replaced because it had pulled away, the door trim came away and the centre console has also done same, the Caprice has had the same problems and has a knock in the front suspension with only 23000km on it. These guys only buy Holdens but will they continue? My Golf GTI has 42000km and is as tight today as when it was new. So the answer to your Q is I would love to buy one but not while the resale value and quality are so bad. My next car will definately be Euro or Japanese.

  • http://caradvice onepoppa

    The problem for many buyers is that the local products are not what they now want, and I don’t blame them. Who needs a large Falcodore which cannot easily accomodate its passengers in any sort of roomy environment – and before you all get up in arms think about how hard it is for rear seat passengers to get in and out through door openings which, at foot level, are nothing short of laughable. I have recently bought a Merc B type – no, not new at a stupid price – and getting in and out is just so easy. Add a diesel engine offering torque rather than power and amazing economy – and a quality finish and one has what the local manufacturers just don’t offer.

    Europeans buy lots of similar vehicles – Renault Scenic, Opel Zafira, Ford C-Max and S-Max, Volkswagen Touran, Mazda 5. Here most of these cars are not even imported.

    So many contributors to this blog seem unable to get over being besotted by 4 litre plus, heavyweights that are cramped beyond belief and will shortly be the dinosaurs of the automotive world – nothing which exceeds 200gm/km will even be produced within an amazingly short period elsewhere in the world – let alone the 300+ gm/km monsters being made here.

    I too owned a V8 Commodore – but that was 30 years ago. The game has changed.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Yeah and Scott there are Toyota and other Jap people out there with similar problems,sorry but you need to explore the possibility that Jap and Euro cars also have quality issues .

    Why recently there was a woman on this site complaining about her 2008 Accord throwing a leg out of bed and wanted to know if any one else had had engine problems with their Accords.Another blog on the 200 series Landcruisers complaining loudly on a myriad of problems with their 80k purchases .

    Ive had Holdens Fords,Mercedes,BMWs,Honda,Toyotas and Porsche over the years and none have been perfect :) I buy what I enjoy driving and what suits that need best .

  • eh179driver

    Gotta laugh at all the comments about size and weight. I drive a VE Sportswagon. Yes it weighs 1800kg. But so do just about all of the mid sized SUV’s on the road. Yes it is a large car. I bought it BECAUSE it was built in Australia. Yes the resale is a bit on the average side (56%at 4 years), but it was also a LOT cheaper than any imported cars or SUV’s with the same size and options. The closest imports to the size were kluger, Passat, Sante Fe and all were thousands more expensive. My Sportswagon averages 11.2/100 around Melbourne. None of the others come close with the exception of the Passat. But it needs Premium unleaded. Then there is the service costs. The VE is so cheap to service, plus spares are ALWAYS in stock. Get onto some of the forums and you will here people waiting for parts for imported cars for weeks if not months. As for reliability, we run 42 cars in our fleet. Most are localy built Fords, Holden and Toyotas with a couple of BMW’s, Nissans, 2 Mercedes, a KIA and a Proton ute. My own Aurion was a horror storey. But the worst for reliability has been the KIA and the Mercedes. After 25’000km’s, the Sportswagon has been an absolute dream.
    Would I by another one? Absolutely! You guys need to get onto some of the quality forums and just read for your selves some of the owner reviews and problems with some of these so called “top quality cars” mention above. It will be an eye opener.

  • BrisVegas

    Yes I would, if the vehicle suited my needs. I’ve owned Japanese, European and Australian and had varying issues with all of them. If the Australian car industry is to survive, it must carve out a niche as the “best of breed” for some particular vehicle.

    I think Europe has nailed the hot hatch and midsize market. Asia does small and cheap very well. The Germans do bahn-stormers for executives. Australia has built a gem of a vehicle in the Territory, ie. a flexible, safe and dynamic family hauler. As distinct from the very “truck-like” alternatives out there. They just need to bring the drivetrain up to date with DI LPG and modern diesel and that could be our niche. Holden should look at the Sportwagon and figure a way to make that into a 7-seat Territory rival. (The Captiva is rubbish, so it doesn’t count).

  • Golfschwein

    ScottyC, your Golf will feel the same at 70,000 kms. Mine does. One of the things I remember about the VS Commodore was that it felt fantastic in the first 2 or 3 weeks, then became noticeably looser in the body after that, and very quickly. I can’t say and don’t know whether people experience that now in other cars.

  • nobody

    BM: Agreed that all cars have their problems. All are made by imperfect people after all. Personal care and maintenance of the car is important too, just like with our health. Can’t expect to live long if we smoke 10 packs of cigs everyday. But in general Japanese cars are more reliable, I’m not saying everytime with each model but just overall. There’s no dispute and is one of the main reasons average joes tend to buy them.

    They make a decent sized car, that’s decent at what it does and is in general mostly cheaper to service and repair than bigger aussie offerings. They’re just easier to live with in day to day life.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    eh179driver my brother has had a VE SSV Ute for over 12 months,no problems gets great fuel economy on his trip from Kalgoorlie to Perth even sitting on 120 hes getting 9.8/100 ,no way could he go back to some 4 cylinder buzz box for the trip he says and feels a hell of a lot safer passing triples than in the past. Back one gear not two !

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Nobody…..the average joe buys them because of marketing.Look at Macdonalds more people buy them than Hungry Jacks but who makes a better burger,HJs !

    People tent to buy what is marketed at them well and we all know one manufacturer is the Macdonalds at doing that ;)

    Most people have NOOOOOOOOO idea about cars when they buy them.

  • Frontman

    Danman2 Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
    Agree Frontman but Kia carnival v6 was a small player in the scheme of things (hundreds sold per month) while the 5.7 Gen 3 debacle (thousands sold per month, remember vt was king of the hill)

    But Danman2, wouldn’t you complain just as loud if you were the owner of the Korean with a failed motor? The point I was getting at (and this was a conversation with over 15 owners of these vehicles making sure they were happy) was that they were quite happy to accept this because it was a Korean car and therefor a lesser expectation. So if you expect less then the survey you reply to will always be a better score than the person who wants the world for nothing.

    As to the Golf’s, love them would buy one tomorrow if they suited my needs, buyt c’mon guys 70,000km??? Really?? we used to think Austins were dead at 100,000 MILES (you know 160k km ;p) why on earth would you not expect a new vehicle to give you ten times the service of an early 60′s Austin????

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    hahaha make that tend,morning Golfy……nice drop of rain we’re getting . Hows the paint on the Golf and do you keep it polished he he he ?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    I think Golfy was referring to how tight the Golf still feels after 70ks Frontman………….

  • Golfschwein

    Frontman, I was simply saying it still feels tight in the body, whereas other new cars I’ve experienced have not been so lucky. You’re right, otherwise. We should expect much higher mileages from our modern cars with little or no trouble.

  • Terry

    I have two dealers I keep an eye on. One in Newcastle and one in Armidale. When they are both replaced I will know the manufacturer is serious about customer service. They are my barometer.

    Basically the build quality of Aussie cars is still not good enough and the dealer networks for Ford and Holden are appalling. I simply wont spend anymore money having dodgy dealers and cars foisted on me.

    I like the big cars, the performance for the money is fantastic, but the ownership experience always ends up terrible. Shame because if it wasn’t for that a new FG Falcon would be in my driveway today.

  • Frontman is on his high horse :-)

    Yeah I know Golfy and I don’t normally have a shot at your comments, but seriously the milage thing these days is a laugh (VWAG is still the best mass producer out there) and under standard maintenance you will see that car do 10 times that amount. But the other Euro’s and the larger majority of the Japanese (read all) have taken a major leaf out of GM’s book on building in Obsolesence into their product. IT’s called job security.

  • nobody

    Marketing is important, as well as perception. I understand why you would say most people have no idea, but I think for new car buyers a good amount of people would spend quite abit of time doing their research on what suits their needs.

    And right now Aussie built cars aren’t that high on the list unfortunately. Maccas are popular also coz they’re cheap and are convenient as in they have alot of places set up. Most people are doing jobs they believe are safe too but given the economic climate can’t be blamed.

    They surely also don’t want to spend extra on fuel, or “perceived” trouble with their car in the future too. People don’t want to go through that in the best of times so definitely not now either.

    Personally I’ve never heard of any of my immediate friends complain about their Holdens screwing up, however have heard alot of issues from workmates and outside. I’ve never heard the same amount of trouble about people and their japanese counterparts, in general that is. So it’s not just motoring journals and annual surveys. I’ve never owned an aussie car so I can’t speak from personal experience like you. I’ve heard alot of horror stories from people about Merc’s too, maybe on par with Holdens but they tend to keep their Merc’s…

    But fortunately for the folks who can afford it, there’s never been a better chance to pick up an aussie muscle car for a smashing price!

  • Frontman is on his high horse :-)

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
    I think Golfy was referring to how tight the Golf still feels after 70ks Frontman………….

    Way too many jokes for this site BM (.):-)(.) please don’t leave yourself open like that :-)

  • AW

    Never again will I buy an Australian Made car. After having owned Holdens for the past 10 years, and having many problems, I won’t be buying another Commodore or Falcon. Now I drive Subaru’s and Honda’s and having no problems whatsoever.

  • Richard

    When I got my licence a few decades ago now, my first cars were local – XW Fairmont 302, HQ Premier 308. Then juice hit 50c a litre shock horror. Since then I’ve been away from Oz made in the likes of a Nissan Pulsar SSS, 200SX, WRX & even indulged myself recently with a ’99 M3.
    But now I’m back in an Aus built car – and the one that convinced me to return is the FG XR6 turbo. What I sold the 10 year old BM pretty much paid for the brand new XR6 given all the discounting right now.
    Sure, it’s not of the same build quality and it’s a big sedan but I am so bloody impressed by the massive performance available when needed with no downside when you want just practical commuting. You get what you pay for and this car is awesome value for money. I’ll be hanging onto it for years.
    And by the way, just did a 500k trip and averaged 9.2l/100k crusing at 110. At 100 it drops into the 8′s. The WRX would never do any better than 10 with an engine half the size.

  • Flying High

    Aussie car I would like.
    – Size of an Astra/Lancer/Impreza
    – 5L crammed in
    – AWD
    – Sub 60K
    – Associated inclusions and overall quality of a car in that price range.

    hmmm… sort of sounds like a Torana

    Is that asking too much? please?

  • Flying High

    P.S. Wheelnut. You Brother-in-law – I like him already.

  • Frontman is on his high horse :-)

    The problem is, Nobody, that the major part of research “most” buyers do is asking a friend who talks as if he knows cars. Or reading publications such as their local motoring Authority magazine. As we know for every different person you ask you will get a different answer when it comes to cars. (Like when Wheels (sorry Alborz)tested the Daewoo Leganza and said the engine was noise and underwhelming, yet they waxed lyrically about the Vectra’s engine! Same motor made in Fishermans bend same computer everything the saem except the badge.) They are guided by people who have had little or no experience in the vehicle they are bagging, most of their anecdotes come from people they have spoken to who’s mate new a fella who one saw……….

    As for the economy, if people were really after economy (as judged by hip pocket) Ford would be doing more than 25% E-Gas vehicles. You are right on perception, because Falcon has a Four litre therefor the 2.5l Liberty must be cheaper in real life driving. (unfortunately not true my parents liberty burns the same amount of Fossile as my company XR driving the same distance)

    As to hearing stories of mishaps and unreliability, why is there more for Falcodore then the others?? Proportianately there isn’t, it’s just that there are more of them out there and more people have driven them than the others. As someone said earlier, you can go to any number of sites and get complaints on any vehicle.

  • Westy

    Alborz,

    Yes definitely be looking at Australian made. Have owned many models of Falcon and Territory over the years. All have been excellent. They are mechanical things so if you own something mechanical I think it is fair to expect odd issues every now and again if you use them a lot, that’s just common sense not bad build quality. Conditions/roads/driver habits change so unless it is a perfect world unfortunately odd issues will arise. I have always had pretty good service from Aussie dealers. If I have had a problem I have simply gone to another dealer where they have respect for me and the others lose business. Seems a lot of people here are blinded by the simply marketing ploy of magazines and big mouths without actually getting their bums in an Aussie car and actually experience what they are like. We ain’t living in the 70′s and I thought a lot more people here would actually be more informed on how good the Australian made products are. If they are expecting 0 issues in relation to build quality or service or whatever tell me the address of that Utopia and I will be there. Otherwise just get real.

    My next car will (fingers crossed) be a FPV GT or GT-P and I can’t wait !!

  • SteveH

    I know the talk here has been how bad the Holden / Ford dealer network is at customer service, but my worst experiences by far have been with three seperate Honda dealerships.

    First one quoted me a trade in price of only 2/3rds of what I had been offered elsewhere and tried to tell me other dealerships were selling the next model up for the same price. Second completely ignored my 8 and a half month pregnant wife and I for 10 minutes as we stood in the dealership looking at the car. Final dealer missed the delivery date by over a month and neglected to tell me that my original salesperson had left and didn’t bother to give me a new contact.

    What all of the above ramble is supposed to show is that poor customer service is not only at the local dealers, but over quite a broad range of makes. Some of my better experiences have been at Ford dealers.

  • Supply & Demand

    I’ll go back when they offer a fuel efficient small-medium sized sedan or hatch with sporty styling. I’ll go back when the brand I buy doesn’t whore itself off to governments and fleets for ridiculas resale destroying discounts. I’ll go back when the parent companies don’t waste money fighting environmental initiatives in court because they’re product planners were too backward or blind to identify obvious trends. I’ll go back when the brand I buy doesn’t replace modern high-quality cars with heaps of gutless plastic which are then pitched with the line “still goes like a Holden should”. Alborz, your an itelligent guy so i think you’ll probably already have noticed this, but the car industry is alot like the airline industry. Private companies can’t win because their competing with companies that wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for government support. A complete mokery of the free market economy.

  • The Realist

    “What will it take for you to consider Australian built cars on par with Japanese and Europeans cars?”

    Fortunately I can afford higher end cars, and the Germans (BMW, MB, Audi) are the only brands I consider in my price range (up to $300K). They provide everything I desire in a car, apart from maybe a very high level of customisation. I do also like the new LS460 from Lexus. Perhaps a second hand Aston Martin may make the cut. In this company a cheap and nasty W427 for $155K+ just doesn’t make the grade.

    Unfortunately HSV and FPV can never remain isolated from their image as being the bogan’s halo car. Which is fine as CUB’s are their core market. But if they want to attract buyers like me and my colleagues they need to offer more than “bang for your buck”. Image, shallow as it may seem, does carry weight in social circles, and especially in the workplace. And I won’t discuss the spectacular quality of women an M3 or M6 attracts…

    If HSV or FPV can provide a true M5 competitor in every facet, including brand image, performance, handling, quality, service, and features I might consider an Aussie built car. But why would I even consider a HSV or FPV when on my meagre income I can still afford an M5? All of my colleagues are in the same boat…

    “Can you see yourself going back to an Aussie built car in the near future? Why or why not?”

    I’ve never purchased an Australian built car – always Japanese or German. For the last decade it’s always been German as my financial situation has gradually improved. When all I could afford was sub $50K cars, monstrosities like VN commodores and EA falcons just didn’t cut it.

    Like I’ve said repeatedly on this site – unless you’re obese or want “bang for your buck” there is no reason to purchase a falcodore. Most Australians couldn’t care less about performance and handling – they want a car that goes from A to B. Witness the large sales of these types of cars. I also don’t knock the people that drive these – if all you want is a vehicle for transport, why would you want to purchase a RWD performance car for $45K+? Additionally there are fantastic second hand German and Japanese cars on the market these days. Frankly there is little justification for purchasing Australian made for the majority of Aussie car buyers.

  • Yianni

    The only have themselves to blame for falling sales.

    Firstly who in their right mind would spend 40G on a base Falcon/Commodore? It’s over 40G onroad for a base model according to their website. The price is simply too high. The Falcon/Commodore needs a starting price of around 30G to be competitive with the imports.

    The second major problem is Holden come out with the Cruze and price is too high once again for what it is. It had to be priced under 20G to be competitive. In the price range that it’s in now I would rather pick the Civic, 3, Corolla, Impreza before the Korean built Cruze.

    If Ford do the same with the locally built Focus next year then I don’t see it being successful either. It needs to be priced right since its locally built.

    As you can see from my post it all comes down to price.

    If their large cars were 30G and their small cars were under 20G they would be selling heaps more right now.

    Holden needs to pull their head out and build cars in Australia. I don’t consider Holden Australian anymore since the majority of their cars are imports.

    The same can be said for Ford really. Most of their cars come straight from Europe.

    Local to me means being built my Aussies in Australia!

  • John

    It’ll be a while before I consider Australian made again – they just don’t make the sorts of cars I want, or with the sort of quality the Japanese are famous for.

    I used to drive Falcons and Commodores (my preference was always for the Commodore, in case you’re wondering) but that all stopped with the VT in 1997. I thought it was just too large. And the VE Commodore – it’s huge! Who asked Holden to make the Commodore that big? The VN to VS by comparison was just the right size, for me at least. And it was more economical – and better to drive too (compare the visibility – you can hide a truck in the blind spot of the VE’s A-pillars).

    Then there’s the niggling little problems you seem to get with Aussie cars. I don’t think I had a single Commodore in which I didn’t have to fix the rear main oil seal – a problem that haunted the Commodore from the 1988 VN right up to the last of the VYs in 2004.

    Seems like the VE has its own share of problems too. Well, I’m too old to put up with that crap any more, not when I can buy other cars that are sorted out before they hit the market.

  • Tony

    the bad resale is a double edged sword

    only a complete moron would buy a $33,990 VE Omega International (whatever the hell it this month) with the award winning 4 spd 4LE60 automatic or similar for a base XT Falcon

    but by the same token I think the XR6T and XR8 and the SS Commodores represent screaming value 3 yrs down the track – just be advised of preventative maintenance on high performance cars

    one thing about the Cruze and Focus… they should be recognised on their own merits but i fear many many people say “i had bad experiences with ford and holden in the past so i’ll give them a miss”

    i see people go on about EA Falcons and JB Camiras… it’s been 20 years folks.. build a bridge

  • Mr. Suzuki

    *The realist , not everyone can afford $300k cars or thousands of dollars in service that comes with these european cars.* Clearly you are out of their target market.
    Alot of people here need to understand the difference between cost and value.

  • Phill

    Aussie cars have poor build Quality = Myth,wonder how many people are just jumping on the anti american sentiment bandwagon thats prevalent in the world lately???

  • G6ETURBO

    small cars sell more cause more people can afford a $15k or
    $25k car then 45k a $60k car or even a 100k car. I find hard to beleive that some1 buys a corrolla or mazda 3 cause they worried about the fuel bill if they buy an xr6 or honda accord v6. may be out of 100 new car buyers, 50 can afford sub 30k car, 30 buyers can afford between 30k & 60k and hte rest can afford over 60k price tag.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    John not saying the VN was a good car cause it wasnt,but the first of the wide bodied Camrys were crap too ,every manufacturer has their bad cars. Talking of A pillars a recent ride in a Camry showed me their A pillar also is huge. God forbid you have to move in your seat to see properly.

    Perhaps you should read up on recalls on cars around the world recently,heres a lovely website for you to start at.

    http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/auto-blogs-news-and-more

    Happy Reading ;)

    Maybe you can tell us a car thats “sorted out” before it comes into production for the first time?

  • davie

    I grew up in EH and HZ Holdens and wish the Australian Industry the best, have been in a BF Falcon and driven a VE Commodore many times. For a family with three kids they are just that little bit bigger and comfy.

    Having said that, Would I buy an Aussie built car? No.

    If I was handing over my hard earned after-tax dollars, I would buy a Japanese car.

    The Japanese have a relentless drive for quality honed in them in the post-war years by W. Edwards Deming (I highly recommend you look Dr Deming up on the internet). This is decades in the making and quality is now ingrained in their culture, psyche and contributes to their sense of pride.

    This learning and pride is a long term view their culture has which dates back to at least the Meiji era (1800′s).

    Aussies simply do not have this, we are an adversarial culture, we think we know best. In comparison to the Japanese, we measure our pride and self-worth by how hard we can screw over our bosses/workers/clients/customers/salespeople.

    We do things for our own self-gratification

    Several comments in this thread point to poor pre or post sales service, poor quality cars. This are all symptoms of this attitude of ours.

    Its our very same Australian attitude that causes stereotypical frustrating service and perceived arrogance from the usual companies such as Quantas and Telstra. All “Australian” and all trying to screw the customer as much as the rules will allow.

  • eh179driver

    The Realist Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm, Like I’ve said repeatedly on this site – unless you’re obese or want “bang for your buck” there is no reason to purchase a falcodore. Image, shallow as it may seem, does carry weight in social circles, and especially in the workplace. And I won’t discuss the spectacular quality of women an M3 or M6 attracts…

    Realist, I have thought it before but you just confirmed it with your recent post. You are a total wanker! If woman are attracted to you becuase you drive an M3 or M6, then they are just cheap slappers and are perfectly suited to you. Enjoy!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    mmmmmmmmm davie,a very in depth text book way of looking at things I guess but the Japanese are no different to another race when it comes to profit in a Company. They will cut corners in order to make a dollar nothing to with pride,saving face …..yes! Which is why there are so many recalls at the worlds number one manufacturer.

    Ive dealt with Koreans Chinese and Japs in manufacturing,they all tell you what you want to hear to get your business in the door and will screw you over as soon as you take your eye of the ball,they can not be trusted. They dont see it as dishonesty though thats the sad thing,just business.

    You will still be getting screwed by the Japs my dear and they will be smiling about it behind your back .

  • Alec

    Family business just bought a Black G6E about 3 hours ago!
    We could not get a better value car for the money!
    We did the rounds of all types of dealers and here are some points to consider if you think euro cars are better value:

    Mercedes C220cdi Classic $60k+ on roads – comes with vinyl (sorry Human made leather in MB speak) & cloth seats and a corolla spec interior!

    Audi A4 2.0cdi $62K driveaway – nice – at least it had leather

    BMW 3 series – for the price, forget it honestly

    Honda Accord Euro Luxury $49,990 driveaway – was good value but hey its still a 4 cylinder powering a car that is only 80kgs lighter than a G6E

    Anyone who thinks the aussie cars aren’t well specced needs to wake up.

    What this article has really shown is that most people have opinions based on cars they owned 20 years ago. Call it poor marketing or whatever, but the aussie cars are right up there.

    We have owned Ford’s, Holden’s, Peugeots, Nissans, Suzuki’s, Mitsubishi’s over last decade and reliability has been the same across all makes.

    I do agree however that diesel engine options and a small rear drive Sedan/hatch/wagon would be very desirable if locally made

  • davie

    Following on from my earlier comments, Ford (US) heard of W. Edwards Deming in the late 70′s and hired him to help with their quality.

    Arguably Ford has not “Got it” like the Japanese do, however I believe there has been at least some impact in the last 20 years. It may have contributed in a small way to them staying out of bankruptcy?

    FYI, Heres a fascinating bit of Aussie attitude; read up on the the history of the VN commodore development from the mid 80′s… When Holden found the EFI 3800 V6 to replace the Nissan EFI 3L. They actually spent a small amount of time and money testing a carbie version to offer in the low-series executive.

    Yes, thats right. Deliberatley spending developement time and money on an engine which came free with EFI out-of-the-box, just so they would have a boggo carbie model which customers would be ashamed of and spend money to avoid.

    This was at the same time that 90% of japanese cars were already standardised on Multi Point EFI and emission rules were tightening up quickly.

    why? why? why? why?

  • Alec

    And if we talk as depreciation in percentages….

    Once the euros were optioned to the G6E spec, we worked out the %loss made (after 3 years) on the purchase price of a similarly specced C220cdi (about 80k in avantegarde trim) would almost cover the purchase price we paid for the G6E!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Davie……………why did Toyota take a handout from the Government to build a Hybrid car when they were already making one? why why why ????????????

  • davie

    Hi bavarian missle,

    I agree that business is business and you do have a point.

    however, what I mean is that if you look at Demings rules, he discusses how integrating quality into products actually can reduce your costs and increase your profits in the long run.

    Imagine that!! – invest money in quality systems and your national culture as core part of your business and make a bigger profit in the long run.

    VS

    Do a dodgy cheap job, paper over the cracks until the customer buys the car to make a profit, then cast them adrift…

    Either way, sure, you will still get your first sale… but I doubt you will get your customers return business using option 2. Just ask GM or Chrysler in the USA… ;)

    I honestly believe Aussies would like to support their national manufacturers but they are tired of handing over hard earned money and being treated like a fool. It may have worked in an era of blind patriotism but in the information age other competitive options abound everywhere.

    Maybe thats why I have a soft spot for the BF G6E Turbo. I actually think that Ford is really trying hard. Probably because they have a gun to their head…

  • Gibbo

    Yes my next purchase will be Australian, it will be a ute and it will have a great big V8 under the hood, I would like it to have a manual gear box but the auto’s tow more, and Ford’s ZF sh*%s on Holdens slush box, there fore I can see my next car being a XR8 ute. Unfortunately the purchase will have to wait a couple of years (male under 25, insurance costs an arm and a leg.) For all you out there knocking the Aussie cars, I currently drive a VY II “poverty pack” ute, Ive never had a problem with it and Ive gotta say for a “poverty pack” ute its pretty good, heaps more equipment than the Japs, more comfortable, more power, may not be as practicle but Im not after a hard core work horse, just a vehicle that performs well, is fun to drive, that I can throw stuff in the back of and will tow the ski boat.

  • Andrew M

    What a weird topic to write about.
    Seems to me its meant to be noting more than a ratings winner.

    Jap cars seem to have just as many problems.
    Pull a feeler guage out on any car and you will find misalignments.
    Its seems that Ford and Holden are the only ones ever put under the Microscope.

    For out right value and driving experience, you cant beat the aussie makes.
    What would people rather……
    something better built, or something that is good to drive???
    Ford has really stepped up their game with their new editions to the stable. Sure you will find something if you look hard enough, but you will on every car.
    It just seems be more acceptable for the japs to have a problem than an Aussie make.

    Even if you do blow a few minor problems out of proportion, the Aussies quality of vehicles is certainly not at the point where its unacceptable

    And also dont forget that Toyota builds cars in Australia too. Ive seen my fair share of problems with the ones I have had direct experiences with.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Davie I think you need to take the blinkers off,our cars arent as bad as you make them out to be.

    GM was at the top of the food chain before Toyota took over they didnt get there by fooling their customers for decades and selling them a car once. Their down fall was not moving with the times fast enough coming from bad management discussions.

    Ford are where they are for BETTER DISCUSSIONS EARLY ON.

  • Supply & Demand

    I talk to people all the time about the cars they’re interested in test driving when the lease expires on theIR Territory, Falcon or Commodore and the answer always seems to be something from Mazda, Volkswagen or Hyundai and yet when the sales person from Ford arrived last year to pitch the new Falcon all he wanted to talk about was how good the car was compared to the Holden Commodore (talk about a false benchmark). I think its time aussie car makers worked out who and what their really battling with. The current generation of decision makers clearly have no idea.

  • insomniac

    At risk of getting flamed here, i do think the overall quality of the current falcons and commodores \”seems\” much tighter… and had they been released at a time when fuel was 70c/L i think most of us would at least consider buying either. I think the biggest issue is the market has moved in leaps and bounds, and people want smaller, more fuel efficient cars. full stop.
    I think Holden making yet another, conservative fwd small car to add to the masses wont save them. Just look at companies like ford and mazda, who are at least trying to make some waves with their newer designs. These days its not enough to release \”a car\”. There needs to be a reason to want to buy a car over another, and a lot of times it comes down to, yes, a simple matter of what the car looks like. What it makes you feel. Put aside the performance and build quality, I think one reason that mazda has done so well is simply a matter of design. The Ipod generation values looks above a lot of other things – eg coloured notebooks? and above all else economy.
    Of course most people (most males) still value the complete package… we want our performance too… and unfortunately for Holden, other brands just offer more of the attributes we want.

  • Andrew M

    Supply & Demand,
    I tend to agree with what you say.

    Ford and Holden are stuck in the days where they are only competing amongst themselves.

    Im not saying that a Ford or Holden cant satisfy a Mazda or VW buyer, Im pretty much saying they need to start thinking about the way they market their products.

    Ford in particular has very very very poor marketing and sales staff.
    They do have some great products, no doubt there, so whay arent they selling them as well as they should????
    The only link left to question is their marketing and sales.

    All the dealings Ive had with Ford sales staff have left me banging my head with a cant wait to get out of here attitude.
    When I bought my FG, they didnt sell it to me, I sold it to me by doing my own research.
    They couldnt even answer my simple questions, and at times gave me incorrect answers.
    I even taught the sales guys something.
    Its not just the one bad dealership either because I ended up buying from the one I didnt test drive at because they were so “Durrr”.
    The second dealership wasnt really any better, and they kept telling me they were the biggest and best in QLD!!!!!

    Servicing side of things…….
    Ive actually found their service centres very well organised and helpfull

  • Andrew M

    insomniac,
    Im hearing ya, but,
    Fuel cost savings in smaller cars are quite false, then you have to consider what you are sacrificing to live under the falseness

  • Mitch

    I worked in the car rental industry for ten years and I can confidently say that in my experience the local products were certainly no less reliable than any of the Japanese/Euro/Korean cars.

    My company car was whatever was sitting available in the yard at the end of the day so I spent alot of time in numerous makes and models, I always felt most comfortable when i was behind the wheel of a Falcon BF or FG, they never put a foot wrong.
    The Audi\’s were always into the dealers with flatspot problems with accelaration and the fuel flap covers were always breaking, I found in my opinion that the Audis A3, A4 and A6\’s were all rather horrid things to drive considering the premium you pay to own one, but yes the interiors and build are excellent.

    The worst cars for breakdowns were the Renaults, the Subarus were a pain for tyre wear and for loooong waits on parts. The Hyundais are solid honest performers but not the most exciting to drive.

    Its not my intention to bag any of these cars out as they all have their good and bad points, The Falcadores may not have the greatest build quality in all areas but its certainly not as bad as some people would like to think, for those who want a larger rear wheel drive thats safe, tough, longlived, affordable to purchase and maintain then you cant go wrong.

    I have since purchased a used VZ exec and I have had no problems to speak of and I would quite likely purchase another falcodunnydoor when the time comes, a smaller rear wheeler with a Torana badge and a V6 would be nice.

  • davie

    Andrew M,

    I agree strongly regarding your comment about how Ford and Holden are stuck competing against each other. Commodores/falcons/Camrys are really competing against everything from corollas, 4wd’s and BMW’s in the same price brakets.

    A few years ago Mitsubishi was considering wether to compete in V8 supercars, Holden and Ford made a big noise about keeping other manufacturers out. Yet no more than a week ago, the v8 supercars spokesmen went on the record saying how the sport might be interested with having other manufacturers compete?

    With GM (US) in trouble and ford reducing factory support, Maybe it suddenly dawned on V8SC what a one-make or no-make race series might be like?

  • Andrew M

    Davie,
    Mitsu was indeed very interested, but talks broke down not because of the rejection of them from the sport, but rather from the break down of Mitsubishi Australia itself

    V8SC have been on the record for 2 years now in welcoming who ever would like to post a submission to enter to do so.
    Chrysler and Toyota have been approached numerous times.

    Toyota wanted in on terms that would favour them heavily, so V8SC laughed at them to the point where they never bothered officially submitting a proposal.

    Chrysler lacks the funds, and enough is said as to why they havent gone ahead

    Mitsu, as discussed before broke down as a company.

    The V8SC spokesperson has been out taliking it up a long time ago, not just the last week.

  • Andrew M

    Might I also add that along with Ford putting lots of effort in to bettering quality,
    They are also trying to shift their image and attract new types of buyers.

    The name plate arrangements that came into effect at the start of FG are proof of this.
    They certainly set out to curb the buyers thoughts on their products, but its simply let down by their marketing, which is meant to promote consumer awareness

  • mcl334

    Holden & Ford still think putting there big V8′s around & around a track, will still sell bucketloads to Joe Avg.
    sorry boys but the golden days of 70′s & 80′s are long gone.
    Joe Avg’s family’s are buying Mazda 3/6 types and Softroaders
    buy the bucket!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    mmmmmmmmmm I dont think you’ve got that quiet right with the V8SC Davie .Off to pick up Wheelnut ,back soon.

  • Frontman is on his high horse :-)

    Question for all those who keep saying Aussies want smaller cars that are cheaper to run,
    If this is so, why is it that the 6, Mondeo, Accord, Accord Euro, and Epica are all similar in size to the previous itinerations of Falcon and Commodore? Add to that the New 3 is similar in size to the previous 6, the Focus sedan is larger than the original Mondeo and Corolla is bigger than the SV21 Camry??
    Australians DON’T want smaller cars, smaller cars are the same size as the larger cars. hence the traditional large car market is being sliced up by the “smaller” cars because the size has shifted. Same as womens Fashion, previously a size 8 was a very petite female, not so these days.

  • Frontman is on his high horse :-)

    AndrewM is correct in the change of thinking at Ford, who wants to be number one in sales if you aren’t making money? Sell less cars, but make more money per car seems to make sense these days. Works for companies like Subaru Australia and such.

  • Andrew M

    BM,
    I dont think you have it “QUITE” right…..

  • Dave

    I think I’m like a lot of people here – I’ll buy Australian, when there is an Australian built that fits what I want. Commodore and Falcon just aren’t it. I like Flying High’s general suggestion. I think the falcodores are about 4.9m – Way too big. Build me a hatch or sedan that’s:

    About 4.5-4.6m long – (Ford could probably use the focus or mondeo base and GM could use the astra/cruze or the insignia platform)

    FWD base and diesel models, 4WD Diesel & Performance models

    Range of engines – 4 cyl base (say 120-135kW), turbo diesel (say 115-140 kW) and turbo petrol (Ford has that T5 focus engine in 166 & 244kW and GM has the 2.8 HF V6 in 191 & 240kW)

    5 speed manual or optional 5 speed auto on the cheaper models with
    6 speed manual or optional 6 speed twin clutch semi auto on the higher models

    Style it nicely and give it a good interior with 7 airbags, 5 star ANCAP, EBD, ESP, ETC

    Start the base model at say $24k, bring the diesels in at the $31k mark, hit the first performance model at $40k and have the HSV/FPV halo model come in at about $58k

    That’d do me nicely – probably all the way through my life. It’s big enough to carry 4 adults or 2 Adults and 3 kids, plenty of stuff, get the right configuration and towing will be no problems and I can get an affordable sporty model for now.

  • Andrew M

    Dave,
    I was reading your post, and along the way saying to myself, “that sounds alright”.
    Then I got to your Purchase price part where you said 24K, and I started laughing…….

    Also neither of those engines are going to better the consumption of a falcon or commodore especially when you will be talking a near identical kerb weight to the “big boys”

  • charles

    LOCAL carmakers are the biggest losers in a national survey of how happy buyers are with new vehicles.
    Holden took the wooden spoon for the second year in a row and, with a large drop in owner satisfaction, is now adrift at the foot of the table, The Australian reports.
    Ford came second-bottom again but Toyota had the biggest fall since last year’s survey, plummeting 12 points on the ratings scale to lie below the industry average.
    The survey, by the JD Power group, samples thousands of buyers with new cars up to three years old.
    A detailed questionnaire asks owners to rate their vehicles for appeal, quality and reliability, running costs and dealer service to come up with a points score out of 1000.
    JD Power managing director Brian Fine said: “On vehicle appeal, Toyota and Holden were the biggest drops in the top 10 compared with last year. They were both down on cost of ownership while Toyota also lost on dealership service.”
    Toyota has been hardest hit by the downturn among the three local makers. Sales of its Melbourne-built Camry and Aurion were down 37 per cent this year and demand for its imported models was down 27per cent.
    “Toyota is constantly striving to improve vehicle quality, reliability, appeal, ownership costs and customer service,” Toyota spokesman Mike Breen said.
    “We have studied the 2008 and 2009 results and found Toyota remains in the top three. The difference is just 1.5 per cent in a 1000-point scale.”
    Holden said quality and customer satisfaction were always high priorities, and cast doubt on the survey’s effectiveness.
    “We measure our effectiveness using a number of different industry surveys and tools,” Holden spokesman Scott Whiffin said. “Annual surveys like the JD Power offer only a snapshot in time.”
    Of the six Japanese brands in the top 10, only Mazda and Honda improved on last year to confirm their top spots. Honda dealers outscored all their rivals while both Mazda and Honda did well on cost of ownership.
    The strongest performer was Hyundai, whose better quality and service pushed it up the chart to fourth, overtaking Nissan, Mitsubishi and Subaru on the way.
    Nissan scored poorly across the survey, dropping nine points, while Ford and Mitsubishi can blame poor reliability for their falls.
    “On vehicle quality – things that have gone wrong – the biggest drops were Mitsubishi and Ford,” Mr Fine explained.

  • Andrew M

    And to answer the articles question, yes i will keep buying australian made.

    Ive never really had any dramas with any, and nothing that has competed with my string of Falcon utes is anywhere near as great to drive.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    I know Andrew I realised that just now………running out the door in a rush…..

  • Talib

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) are you actually a woman? If so, perhaps you should rephrase your remaks; you’re coming off as a bit of a mysoginist.

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Talib……..sounds like your friend doesnt maintain her car.

    Oh and what is being female got to do with anything……They tend to be the worst when it comes to looking after their cars. Look at all that pink fluffy stuff they have all over their cars and hanging from all knobs and handles. Most women have no idea how to respect a car properly.

    Um if being female has nothing to do with it, then why do you go on to say that women don’t look after their cars as well as men?

    I think she takes fairly good care of her car. Always garaged, serviced in accordance with Ford, and by a Ford dealership. What more would you like her to do?

    My Mum also takes pretty good care of her cars, no pink fluffy crap hanging from the rear-view mirror, and no certainly no silicon breasts imitating balls behind the wheel.

  • Andrew M

    Perhaps you shold have cut down on the “m’s” at the start then and focused more on the rest……

    Looks like typical Aussies also have poor quality of posts……
    ha ha ha ha ha ha

  • Wheelnut

    Davie – if you care to read the rules and regulations in regards to V8 Supercars you will find that any major car manufacturer is welcom to be involved in the competition; provided they meet certain criteria which is [basically]: that the car be based on an Australian built RWD Family sized seadn and powered by a PUSHROD V8 capable of producing 620-700BHP

    Now before you accuse AVESCO of being restrictive in so much that the car has to be Australian made – All forms of motorsport have criteria which is just as restrictive if not more so However; I don’t hear anyone complaining about them – in particular F1

  • Andrew M

    Oh man,
    now Ive made a fool of myself with a mistake of my own……..

  • Wheelnut

    Mitsubishi were very interested in entering the V8s so much so that they went as far as making a one off RWD Magna prototype using a Mopar Hemi V8 I saw it once at teh National Motor Museum at Birdwood in Adelaide.

    Tom Phillips who was Mitsubishis CEO at the time used it to try and convince the boys from Tokyo why he wanted the 380 to become a RWD car.. because he saw it as a perfect opportunuity to improve the Cars and the Companies image.

    Something that Toyota should have thougfht about when introducing the “Goal Post Shifting” Aurion

  • the fact

    peanut…stay away from TOYOTA….they have nothing to do with your craps.

  • figjam

    yip ya another hijacked site from nutwheel! you wouldn’t know a good australian car if one drove over you, oh sorry a toyota already has! oh what a feeling!

  • Wheelnut

    Why The hell can’t we metion Toyota? Becausre I’m not sure if you know this – but Toyota have a factory in Altona in Melbourne which correct me if I am wrong is one of the Capital cities in Australia.

    This means that just like Holden in Elizabeth which is in Adelaide and Ford in Broadmeadows [which is also in Melbourne] – Toyota is also considered to be an Australian Manufacturer.. and is therefore a relevant part of the discussion.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Talib………..yes Im female no silicon (.)(.) though sorry,not needed!

    I said “most” women dont look after their cars and I still mean “most” women dont look after their cars . What you persevere as looking after a car and what I do are probably different too. Men in general do a better job !!

    I would like to know what Ford have said to her over the paint issue peeling seeing shes had it since new,Im guessing its the clear your talking about? How many ks has it done ? Where is the roof lining coming down and what have Ford done about that? Let me guess it all happened after it ran out of warranty too ? Mate sorry I think your having a lend here!

    hahaha Andrew,always happens………….now teacher pass the whip you need to be punished.

  • figjam

    Just keep buying australian made whether it be holden, ford or toyota we need a local car industry the quality just get’s better with every new model,and we do alright way better than anything the USA can make!

  • Wheelnut

    Hijacking? The Aurion is Australian made and is therefore relvant to the discussion

    Anyway I was merely stating that given that they already had the FWD Camry; when they were thinking about building the Aurion.. they could have considered making it RWD and offering it wih a V8

    I mean they could have used the platfrom and the engine from the IS-F couldn’t they? That way they could have made a real perfomance sedan; a real rival to the SS and XR8 instead of making the dud that was the TRD – Thats all

  • Andrew M

    GULP!!!!!!!

  • Andrew

    Danman2:

    Holden uses both Bluapunkt and Bose, and if its leather why not just wipe them over? And yes the build quality in our new VE Commodore is better then the Mazda, which had no soft touch plastic used in the interior in the rear, and also it had a random port for the sat nave that looks like a fuse box. And you could also see paint inside , where trim should be covering . NOT TO MENTION THE FACT IT WAS GOING TO BE 40K TO PUT ON THE ROAD AND COST $1573 A YEAR TO INSURE WHEN THE COMMODORE WAS $1100, not to mention cheaper servicing, and it wouldnt matter if eith company wnet broke they would have to honor thier warranties.

    Also not to mention the fact that the commodore is safer, and the Mazda sales man told us it doesnt matter about the ANCAP ratting its the metels used to build it. he had no idea what he was on about aye.

  • Quick

    Could be when I decide to buy my next car, could be never, because there is simply no way in the world I would buy a car based on the fact that it is Aussie made.

    For some odd reason, I see it more logical buying a car on its merits rather than the company building it.

    And as far as issues with reliability go, Fords and Holdens aren’t as bad as made out, you simply hear about them a lot more because that there is a much large volume of cars being sold, and being Australian made, they’re scrutinised a lot more in the media.

  • Chad

    I`m going to speak purely out of experience here, owned many a Falcon in fact for a long time I wouldn`t contemplate anything else and to be honest my EB2`s were pretty good cars except for the rust. But then after working hard for many a year I was fortunate enough [well I thought] to be in a position to buy a brand new BA xr6 turbo ute in blue print with leather, sports bar, even ordered it with a matching rear bar for carrying goods. Now where do I begin, well i guess the paint, it had an entire section down both sides,the bonnet and the roof missing colour, well to be more exact lacking coverage, now Ford knew about this problem but I will get to that shortly. So after 2 resprays [ because thats what they do under warranty as Ford claim "we don`t replace cars"] they were unable to replicate the colour and factory finish, oh and this was a Ford paint shop too. So I asked for it to be replaced and after weeks of being a massive pain in the bottom and threats of going to the media and many a phone call to Ford and meetings with Ford representatives, they said yes and mentioned they were having problems with blueprint and acid rush. But there was a catch they would replace it if I purchased another Ford so after reluctantly saying yes I stupidly paid more to get a Turbo sedan. Now here is indication of how long all this took I purchased my ute in May 2003 and took delivery of the BA MK2 in November 2004 so not only did I lose a small amount of money but alot of work as the ute was a work vehicle. Now to the sedan finally the paint was good but I did choose red this time. But unfortunately the car wasn`t good the rear tail light didn`t fit properly and it wasn`t the tail light and how do I know because the bumper didn`t either, it was the panel but I wasn`t prepared to go through anymore arguing I accepted it. So where to next, oh how about the rattles, the road noise, the driveline vibrations and generally bad fit and finish. Now we aren`t talking about low end Falcons here, one was $44000 the other $56000. Now what about my 06 RTV LPG Ute to date it hasn`t broken down and the quality isn`t any worse than the others [ well what quality] but to be honest if it wasn`t cheap to run and wasn`t a tax dodge I wouldn`t still have it. So I will never own an Australian built car they have no quality, the service right from customer relations to the dealers is so pathetic and this isn`t just Ford I have friends with a Commodore that have just as many issues, Holden are just lucky they are the blind faithful and even after having the dash out 3 times for heater issues, carpets and seating replaced they would probably still buy one tomorrow, but for me I will never, ever own another Aussie built piece of crap ever again and I`m pretty sure I deserve never to have to, don`t you?

  • reality bite

    you are right ..Chad.years after years of lemons the people have enough of them.5 years ago dinosaurs were selling 9000 and 7000 units a month and now down to 3400 and 2800 units a month and 80% of them to fleets.can they survive by selling around 3200 units(local made)a month?

  • Wheelnut

    Chad says: “…. . Now where do I begin, well i guess the paint, it had an entire section down both sides,the bonnet and the roof missing colour, well to be more exact lacking coverage”

    So why the hell did you sign off on it and accept delivery of it.. that is drive it away from the showroom?

    Chad also says: “….But there was a catch they would replace it if I purchased another Ford so after reluctantly saying yes I stupidly paid more to get a Turbo sedan.

    Haven’t you heard of the Departmetn of Fair Trading or the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission? They are the ones who help determine the laws and regulations etc as to how companies must act in regrds to situations such as this..

  • Left Lane Lover

    Can someone fill me in on this one.When I drive alongside a falcon,at certain angles to the sun I see curved paintwork,if that makes any sense.I assume that a robot sprays in a downward(top to bottom)arc.It looks terrible,I think its the metallic finish that shows this arc the most,does anyone know what I am on about,and has there been any issues with this ?
    Look forward to some replys on this.
    LLL

  • Left Lane Lover

    Wheelnutter,stuff me your’e an agro tit aren’t you.I would hate to be on the road near you,you freak.

  • Skybreak

    I’ve had 3 Australian built cars – a ’75 Torana, a ’89 Corrola and a ’01 SS Commordore. All three were great cars that never let me down even once and were a pleasure to own.

    I between I’ve owned a Jap built Bluebird and a Vitara – both were mechanical nightmares.

    Would a buy Australian built again? Right now none of them suit my needs, but otherwise Absolutely Yes.

  • the fact

    we only need the lemon law to clean up the rubbish.

  • davie

    Wheelnut,

    I’m not sure I understand…

    Chad appears to be a long standing owner and supporter of Aussie built vechicles who then got a Dud car with a known fault (The Bad blueprint paint issue is all over the news at the moment). He was good enough to stay with Ford and got an even worse lemon.

    This was his hard earned cash that he presumably worked bloody hard for over many years. He was looking forward to pickin up his dream machine and had an emotional involvement. He deserved a good reward and is deservedly burnt and angry.

    Yet somehow his situation is all his fault?????? Because he should have gone to fair trading????

    He naturally assumed that he would get a fair go because it was Aussie built. Aussies are happy to give fair go… aren’t they?…

    To think about it, put yourself in Chad’s position and don’t fail this time.

  • Chad

    Hey Wheelnut, have you ever dealt with the Dept of Fair trading in relation to a vehicle replacement? you know what they were reluctant do anything as Fords warranty clearly states it would be fixed under warranty and the reason I ended up getting it replaced was due to their advice, So don`t jump to your own conclusions and you know what i took delivery of the car on an overcast day so as far as not picking up the faults it was a few days later in clearer weather when washing it that they were discovered. But you know what why should a brand new car have these problems so before you start having a go at someone get your facts str8.

  • Wheelnut

    Whilst you may think that the ‘Lemon Law” is a good idea and will help clean up this rubbish

    I suggest you visit http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/auto-blogs-news-and-more

    and have a look at the increase in the number of recalls car companies have issued as a result of it.. and notice how many of them involve Toyotas..
    in the last week Toyota have issued recalls on the Corolla the Scion and the Tundra Pick Up..

    Because along with the Lemon laws in the USA there are a number of far more stringent standards n regards to virtually every component and feature of the car etc

    Maybe that could be why an article in the Washington Post said that Toyota is the most recalled make of car in the world.

  • Chad

    Thanks davie, he is obviously to arrogant to understand, as my father says you can`t educate a effing idiot.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Davie as I said at the beginning of this thread the only thing I thought the locals could pickup on is the service,that is, how they handle these type of cases included.

    Nothing like going to the top of the Ford food chain if you REALLY want action {direct line to the second in charge}…………..even after the warranty ran out on the BAGT we had Ford warranted it after some discussion,so yes Davie/Chad Aussie car companies do give you a fair go!

    Has it been listed on Fordforums cause they would be the first to know of it………..point me to the thread please!

    http://fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=2

  • Wheelnut

    Chad: “so before you start having a go at someone get your facts str8.”

    Qui Pro Quo – Chad…. Qui Pro Quo!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Ive just asked a mate from the FPV Club about your so called problem Davie,sorry Chad .Ill get back to you when I get news .

  • Chad

    Oh BM do they? oh yes you would be so familiar with my case wouldn`t you why in the hell would I post on a w@nker forum like ford forums, like it is where you all have to go to whinge about your problems. Gee I should of called you to go see the 2nd in charge for me, all i could manage to speak to was the NSW representative, if you were a guy you really would be a w@nker. Just because I speak out about my problems you and wheelnut start attacking me on how I handled my situation and you know what? IT WASN`T MY FAULT at the end of the day.

  • Chad

    What so when you own a FORD you must join the FPV club. hey well guess what I didn`t and thank god I never did if they are all like you

  • Chad

    BM, what state are you in? Well I`m in NSW, Newcastle in fact.

  • Chad

    Lets remember I never asked for a DUD FORD or to be exact 2, so before you diehards bag someone out, how the hell would you feel if it was your hard earned money, yeah im guessing as angry as me. I`m damn sure I have earn`t the right to say what ever I want about Fords

  • SteveH

    So Chad comes on here and mentions problems he has had with an Australian built car and it is all his fault? Then Toyota’s recalls overseas somehow managed to be brought into a story they have nothing to do with. Build a bridge Wheelnut, for Gods sake.

  • jp

    Being a supporter of ford and genuine enthusiast of their products (GT’s) it really pains me that our dealers here in Tas can’t get their act together (and from comments dealers in general). It has gotten to the stagte now where I dont want to recommend what i know is good product (be it aus or imported) because I know the sales staff apparently have no clue on customer service.

    Simple sales 101 (for example) – know your product and your opposition. Have myself and a number of other people told a dealer the specs of their own cars and corrected them on opposition when purchasing last three vehicles. The sheer lack of interest, willingness to deal, lack of knowledge and follow up has lost them more sales than they have gained with only genuine supporters willing to purchase their product than deal with them – in our case we bought from a mainland yard and shipped over here at a cheaper price with a simple phone call and some signed papers and all this was done before local guy even provided us with a quote. I also get sick of having to walk into a yard and convince staff that I am serious about purchasing before I get interest, I know these guys see a lot of tyre kickers, but it doesn;t take long to suss a genuine buyer from a phoney with a short conversation

  • Falcon Crazy

    The Build quality of my two new AU’s (a sedan and Ute) were great – no dramas. the AU Sedan is still kicking on well.

    My RTV was built well, no rust, no warranty issues and now has 214,000km on the clock and has driven me around Oz and over many rogh tracks..it is so reliable, comfortable and well suited to Australia, I’ve kept it and bought a new FG XR6 ute.

    The FG is sesnational. I do 140km a day and find it to be a quiet, well refined ride coupled to a bullet proof, smooth and torquey I6 which pulls like a freight train yet is yet to return any worse than 10L/100km.

    in fact, in 23,000km, the overall average is 9.4L/100Km. The finish of the paint, panels and trim is perfect and has not skipped a beat and nor do i expect it to.

    Would I buy Australian again – why not; In over 350,000km in new Falcons since 2001, yet to let me down.

  • The Realist

    I predict this will be a record setting thread for CARDAVICE.

    Mr. Suzuki Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
    “*The realist , not everyone can afford $300k cars or thousands of dollars in service that comes with these european cars.* Clearly you are out of their target market.
    Alot of people here need to understand the difference between cost and value.”

    But my comments about the irrelevance of Aussie cars for most of the Australian population are true.

    eh179driver Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
    “Realist, I have thought it before but you just confirmed it with your recent post. You are a total wanker! If woman are attracted to you becuase you drive an M3 or M6, then they are just cheap slappers and are perfectly suited to you. Enjoy!”

    I did enjoy mate. While you were battling a mortgage and driving a falcodore I was enjoying the company of beautiful women, in fact a few stunners. Unfortunately I’m married now.

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
    “Ive dealt with Koreans Chinese and Japs in manufacturing,they all tell you what you want to hear to get your business in the door and will screw you over as soon as you take your eye of the ball,they can not be trusted. They dont see it as dishonesty though thats the sad thing,just business.”

    How is that different to any Australian company trying to win business? You’re starting to sound like Pauline Hanson with your rant. Should we really fear the yellow skinned race BM?

    More importantly BM you could explain why we have amongst the highest wages in the OECD but the lowest productivity? Give it another twenty years and we’ll be outshone by other rising Asian countries. If you take minerals exports out of the equation for GDP our economy would be in a spot of bother to put it mildly. Our so called world class manufacturing does very little. And does even less now than it did 10 years ago.

    Alec Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
    “Anyone who thinks the aussie cars aren’t well specced needs to wake up.”

    Hilarious, another patriot who has no idea what luxury features are in cars of today. Does the G6ET even have satellite navigation? You can get it on a Mazda 3!! What about full electrical power adjustment for the passenger’s seat? I could go on and on!

    Andrew M Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
    “Its seems that Ford and Holden are the only ones ever put under the Microscope.”

    That’s because all falcodores between 1980 to 2000, including atrocities like Wheels COTY VN Commie, left a sour taste in private buyers mouths. Perceptions linger. The Aussie cars these days are better built, but if you’ve been treated like a fool again and again at a Holden or Ford dealership, why would you go back?

    “What would people rather…… something better built, or something that is good to drive???”

    Most Aussies couldn’t care less about “driving experience”, and therefore better built would be higher on their list of desirable qualities.

    “Even if you do blow a few minor problems out of proportion, the Aussies quality of vehicles is certainly not at the point where its unacceptable”

    It is if you don’t want “bang for your buck” and the competition is better built and has better customer service.

  • Golfschwein

    Good morning Bavarian Missile.

    I’ve never seen any problems with Blueprint or Citric Acid, and you know I’m a Colours Guy with an eye for finish.

    Having an eye for finish is what allowed me to notice a brand new Thai built Honda Accord the other day, painted in a metallic gold/bronze colour. It caught the sunlight on the wrong angle and revealed the vertical banding of the factory’s paint gun down its entire length from front to back. I’ve seen that on quite a few cars. Metallic grey BA/BF Fords, maybe? Don’t quote me.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Sorry Chad it was me reading it at 6.30 this morning,I miss read it ! I re-read your next post and still cant understand why you would go back to Ford even with the “good deal ” You still seem to be complaining about this. I wonder what you will buy next and if it will meet your expectations.

    Ive been a busy girl this morning for you,just emailed my mate in Tassie about the colour dramas you had and to see if it is an actual problem Ford had with them,Ill let you know what he says,my other mate from the FPV Club is working away but back Monday so will get an answer then but in the mean time I have an answer from someone inside Ford I know real well and tells me Ford have never had a problem with Blueprint Citric Acid or Acid Rush ,its not as Davie says “all over the news”ANYWHERE!

    We have another guy on this site AndrewM thats in the building trade and had several Ford utes and currently an FG ,he seems happy with his. You really do have bad luck is all I can say.

    Let us know when you find something you are happy with and I bet I can find someone equally as unhappy with that make as you have been with Ford.

    Morning Golfy a little chilly this morning…………..and yes you do like your colours so Im sure at one time or another you would have spotted defects like I would have.I would have thought they would paint side to side not up and down though . Wheelnuts mate works in the body shop at Holden I might ask him why would you see that paint affect you mentioned.

    Dont know about you but I ask the car to be taken out in direct light when I have to sign off on a deal to check for those type of problems,I wouldnt take it if it had any problem till it was rectified or another provided.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Morning Realist……….Quote”Should we really fear the yellow skinned race BM?”

    No not fear Realist just dont trust them ,thats from my experience in dealing with them . Dealing with an Australian Factory there laws set down that must be adhered to .
    Dealing with Asian factories you have nothing ! Time and time again we have moved tooling from factory to factory in our business because we have been shafted from what seemed a trust worthy factory at the time but instead of looking at the long term picture they simply want the quick buck. They take short cuts and hope you dont find out.

    Did we forget to take our happy pills this morning dear ?

    Now I must get some work done.

  • Left Lane Lover

    Gees its gettin hot in here !
    I mentioned the sprayjobs on the metallic falcons here,the “banding” as another called it.Can somebody else with eyes tell me if this has been an issue for ford………….please.Thanks.

  • Dave

    Andrew M – Sorry if I wasn’t clear. $24k was for the base model.
    You don’t think GM or Ford could locally build a 4.6m sedan which is 4 cyl, FWD, 5 speed manual and 5 star ANCAP for that?

    Mitsubishi already builds and imports the lancer, Subaru builds and imports the impreza (with 4wd), Mazda builds and imports the 3, Holden brings in the Astra (yes I know the economics of the imported astra are not great but with the aussie dollar back above US81c it isn’t as bad as 6 months ago).
    They already have the platforms, most of the engines, drive trains, etc. It would require relatively little development work I’d think.

    Perhaps the 2.0L engines that they do currently have are not ultra fuel efficient, but you’d expect them to be better than the 3.6L+ engines. The engines I suggested we just ones I knew they already have (therefore not much development expense). The 4 cyl petrol should be good for something like 7-8L/100km. The diesel at something like 5.5-6L/100km and the turbo petrol’s about 10L/100km

    I’m not sure why you’d expect this car to be as heavy as “the big boys”. The Falcodores weigh in at about 1,700kg. The above smaller sedans weigh in around the 1,300kg mark. I’d estimate that the full performance model would be something like 1,600kg which would be significantly lighter than the 1,825kg for a big V8

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Your right I do have an eye for detail Chad ,been involved with show cars for decades and no Im not telling stories. If you knew me a little longer on this site you would know I have a pretty good knowledge of cars and contacts.

    See the Cobra in this picture ,and where do you think it came from ? I can even give you its number !

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/7367/fpv-cobra-gt-302-engine/

    Now calm down a little ,I never said you couldnt have a bad word against Ford but Im trying to get to the bottom of this so called issue with the colours you mentioned,simple as that! I dont think there is one and thats the point Im trying to make!

    Seems the point you wanted to make at the beginning has been released by you . Quote ” but hey with abit luck shortly we won`t even have to have a choice when it comes to Falcons and Commodores they will be GONE. ”

    We thankyou for your sad sad story!

  • Car Advice Reader

    Chad the funny thing is Bavarian Missile drives an old BMW, while Wheelnut a WRX!! So obviously they they too prefer JAP/EURO imports over the local stuff!!

  • insomniac

    “Andrew M Says:
    June 11th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    insomniac,
    Im hearing ya, but,
    Fuel cost savings in smaller cars are quite false, then you have to consider what you are sacrificing to live under the falseness”

    This is not falseness at all. My wife’s 2L mazda 3 has great economy – 8-10L/100. We don’t sacrifice anything, it can carry 4 normal adults in comfort, or 2 adults and 3 kids. Has heaps of boot space, in fact we also take dogs in the hatch area. How often do you actually get close to filling the boot of a family car? and while we are on it how many families that use a 3Tonne 4×4 to ferry their kids to and from school actually use it off road?
    Yes a 3.8L commodore is slightly slightly faster but the interior space and safety differences are negligible. with real world fuel consumption around 14-15L/100 (or well above 20L for most 4x4s) in the city, ill take the mazda any day. AND we still haven’t hit the issue of insurance yet.
    The problem is that other manufacturers are able to squeeze more power out of their 4cyl turbos and v6 engines with better fuel economy than gm could in most of their v8s.
    I personally drive a tracked 2L turbo jap import and it absolutely mops the floor with any falcadore in the power stakes, for the same fuel figures. Not to mention the build quality for aus cars of the same era… and i doubt any falcadore would stand up to the abuse this car has seen.

  • Golfschwein

    Hi Bavarian Missile. Yes, the bandings are vertical and roughly 90mm wide, indicating a spray gun goes from side to side. I wonder if it stops momentarily or pulses paint every 90mm?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Car Advice Reader Says:
    June 12th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    Chad the funny thing is Bavarian Missile drives an old BMW, while Wheelnut a WRX!! So obviously they they too prefer JAP/EURO imports over the local stuff!!

    hahaha now what are you doing out of the sandpit .We all know your fav is the Tonka Truck you’ve been playing with the last half an hour. Back to playing we are trying to have an adult conversation.

    Chad I can go over most models including BMWs and pick fault with their paint,stop trying to recover! Ford dont have a problem with their paint you do! Yet somehow you keep buying them………….weird!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Golfy is it seen more in some colours ?

    Darker colours show more faults anyway . I hate the heavy orange peel cars have these days,on BMWs it can be real bad!

    I know a few painters but not at the Ford factory ,a hand gun gives a different finish to a machine!

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Golfy Ive emailed a friend at Geelong to find out how they are painted ,and asked about the banding as you put it.

  • SteveH

    BM, I visit the FordForums web site as well and found issues people were having with the Shockwave colour.

    http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11230143&highlight=paint+problem

    Seems like at least some people are having this problem.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Yep I know about that Steve I was told this morning,its a shocker as he put it.But no problems as he said with Blueprint Acid Rush ect…………..

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    An interesting read Steve thanks for that.They’re a very informative bunch over there.

    Seems from this post its a problem with the paint itself!At 8k a pop to repaint not good for Dupont.

    “”I saw the paintshop manager at Peter Warren today. He said Dupont are covering the WHOLE cost, and Ford pay nothing.”"

  • Golfschwein

    Metallic greys seem bad for it. I’ve only seen it on a handful of cars, including that Accord last week, which was gold-ish.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Chad,why become abusive ?

    Ive never said Ford dont have quality issues,Ive experienced them first hand ,it comes down to how you deal with a problem that gets you results. If you went off at Ford like you have just me no wonder they weren’t interested in listening to your problems.

    Just because I dont give my real name doesnt mean Im hiding ,most people on Forums dont call themselves by their real names. It protects your identity from the weirdos out there.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Still trying to find out Golfy…………so its in dark metallic’s only ? Ill have to have a closer look over the weekend to see what your talking about. They do use water based paint now so maybe that’s thinner and shows the paint lines more….not sure just guessing.Hand painters are used for the touch ups after the robots ,maybe they sometimes sweep back over and the paint has a build up.

  • Sigmund Freud

    Why so much hostility agression and frustration Chad? Could it be that you are p!ssed off at your parents for calling you Chad?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Chad seems that this old mum has ruffled your feathers so you turn to insults in retaliation. Why, cause you cant come back with constructive posts .

    Thats ok Chad, have the last word if it makes you feel better about yourself,Im lady enough to give you that my dear ;)

  • Mumble Duck

    Yes I can. Because I do! :-)

  • Jason

    Buying local would be my first choice everytime. Ford first and if they didn’t exist then a Holden. Buying local keeps more jobs in the country and would be in Australia’s long term interest. I’m from a European country but would never consider a European car. I’m Australian now and I intend to be loyal to my new country.

  • The Realist

    Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
    June 12th, 2009 at 11:17 am
    “No not fear Realist just dont trust them ,thats from my experience in dealing with them . Dealing with an Australian Factory there laws set down that must be adhered to
    Dealing with Asian factories you have nothing ! Time and time again we have moved tooling from factory to factory in our business because we have been shafted from what seemed a trust worthy factory at the time but instead of looking at the long term picture they simply want the quick buck. They take short cuts and hope you dont find out.”

    You need to spend money to make money. And also look at building relationships – the Pauline Hanson perspective won’t help you. There are plenty of dubious companies in Australia too.

    Let’s take China as an example – I’d agree most of their manufacturing is not up to Australian standards, whether they be from a safety or quality perspective.

    Since 2005 however more and more manufacturing and industrial facilities have been implementing processes and procedures to mimic Australian companies – much of this has come from Australian expatriate assistance and organisations like Rio Tinto and BHPB. Couple these improvements with productivity and cost effectiveness and you have a potent combination. RT and BHPB spent significant resources to have expat management, HSE, QA/QC and logistics departments.

    A multitude of fabrication shops in China for example can now match or exceed Australian fabrication shops in every facet. Unless Australia closes its economy we can never compete.

  • Mumble Duck

    What country are you from Jason?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Quote “You need to spend money to make money. And also look at building relationships – the Pauline Hanson perspective won’t help you. There are plenty of dubious companies in Australia too.”"

    Babe I know that, the money has been spent over and over and over and lost. At one point a trip was being made every two weeks to build re-pore and trust with these factory managers and owners.It makes no difference ,Ive spoken to people around the world at trade events and they experience the same problems. Look at Mattel for instance and their lead problem,their factory had a high quality control system but as soon as you turn and head for the airport they are doing what they want to make that extra dollar and will blame someone else should a problem occur. They wine and dine you and you talk families and kids and THINK you have a great trust and understanding with them and bamm they have f*cked up again!

    Quote “A multitude of fabrication shops in China for example can now match or exceed Australian fabrication shops in every facet.”

    Well point me in their direction please………..The problem with China it has no consistency. Take for instance the fabric thats made in China for Audi,yep its good quality,but in batches ! I know the guy that used to be Audis buyer and he would give them a sample at the factory and then a totaly differnet colour would come back,he used to pull his hair out in frustration just like the smaller Companies also trying to do buisness there.

    Yes they can make good stuff,but constantly ?

    Quote”Unless Australia closes its economy we can never compete.”

    We will never compete with $10 a day ,their workers are housed, clothed and feed at the factories then go home to their villages on the Holidays. Thats how things work over there.

  • Nobody

    BM I happen to have worked with companies that deal with textiles and such with regards to manufacturing in China. While as you have pointed out not all are great, but the proven ones that deliver are excellent. Their technologies are way ahead of any aussie company and quality too.

    If they kept on screwing companies over, they wouldn’t go back year after year to do business. I’m not bashing the aussie textile industry, only that it’s not as big or as important as it was in it’s heyday so naturally it cannot compete on a global scale.

    I’m not sure about the situation you mentioned with the audi stuff, whether he visited the factory in person to inspect the samples or just send in a color code. As a rule of thumb, it’s important to inspect things in person. Not just in China but any factory whether here, Europe or elsewhere.

  • The Realist

    “Yes they can make good stuff,but constantly ?”

    That’s why you need to have an expatriate business unit set up so you have someone consistently monitoring production quality…

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Quote Realist” That’s why you need to have an expatriate business unit set up so you have someone consistently monitoring production quality… ”

    Companies like Mattel you mean ? Didnt work for them either.

    We employed a quality control company to over see our work and the factory at times wouldn’t answer or return their calls or let them through the factory gates,we have tried everything !!!!!!!!!

    As Ive said before big Companies like Olympus and Buddy_L also produce their and have similar problems too :(

  • nobody

    A QC company to oversee the work? Was there ever a representative from your company or similar ever sent there to check out the factory and inspect the samples? It’s always important to meet with people who run the factory firsthand, get them to show you how their factories work and what they make. You can also get their direct contact too, makes things easier.

    Going through a third party is always annoying as who knows if they’re working with the factory themselves to screw you over or not? This is the same deal with anything that involves business.

    All the aussie companies I’ve worked with have done this. They actually visit the factories themselves, establish a relationship if they feel it’s to their standards and personally inspect samples.

    Sure there are dodgy factories and companies have been screwed here and there, that’s the same with anywhere. If all factories there were as bad as wanting to screw people over they wouldn’t have any business at all.

  • Roddy

    Honestly, what’s the point of this article?

    Ask a bunch of troglodytes who hate anything with wheels built or designed in Australia when they will buy anything Australian made? Good one…

    I guess it gives the Holden haters a chance to crap on about Daewoos one more time, and gives the Ford haters a chance to crap on about quality issues. And all the rest just wank off crapping on about how Oz cars are inferior to BMW’s etc.

    This site now has a new low point, as if that were possible…

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Nobody yes there was if you read earlier ,it was fly in fly out! Have you dealt with the Chinese yourself,manufactured there yourself ?

    Been in the industry for 10 years and know plenty of other Companies also having the same dramas with them!

    Gee is this becoming Business advice now !

  • http://daimler blitzkrieg

    i buy the daily telegraph every friday to read the motoring section called ask smithy,and i kid you not that every week there’s a letter of complaint or concern written about the quality or construction of the BA or BF falcon and territory.these are still relatively new cars and it highlights the concerns that people have about aussie build quality.

  • Confused

    Bavarian Missile – ah I thought (.)(.) were the eyes!

    I haven’t owned Australian built car but I have seen enough. I will steer away from them as one of my frens said the build quality of XR or commodore is like Indian made cars. Rust ate up his commodore within 4 years.

  • Confused

    Nice to know The Realist that you are so rich that you won’t look at anything lesser than German. But the point here was if you think Aussie made cars could be as good as the imports with the same category (not BMW or Rolls Royce).

    My answer is also a no – but that’s not because I afford BMW. That’s because Aussie made cars are crappy.

  • Wheelnut

    Confused says: I haven’t owned Australian built car but I have seen enough. I will steer away from them as one of my frens said the build quality of XR or commodore is like Indian made cars. Rust ate up his commodore within 4 years.

    Thar wasn’t because of Holdens build quality it was more likely because your friend didn’t maintain his car properly.

    All cars are supseptible to rust; it’s how well the owner looks after the car which determines how long it lasts.

  • matt

    Couldnt find who mentioned the roof lining and the clear coat wearing off up there, but our old BA did that…. But only when its gearbox gave out at 220 thou and i left it parked out in the weather for 2 months without using it, During the middle of summer.

  • Mumble Duck

    Wheelnut, your last coment is totally correct. It is the owners fault. I wonder if the owner thinks the car would be bulletproof to?! I mean come on!!!! Lol.

  • Schmak

    First time poster, long time lurker.

    I will never buy another Aussie car after my Holden. It was purchased used through the Holden Certified crap that they advertise. Everything seemed good, but things went bad real quick. The paint went from red to pink within a few months – to the point of getting a respray done. That cost money because Holden couldn’t verify if I had caused it or not. Then some panels weren’t done because ‘they are fine’. Lo and behold those panels are pink. The Holden dealerships have been nothing but pricks to deal with.
    But I will gladly go back to Japanese cars. I had a Lancer that was 4-5 years out of warrantee and Mistubishi gladly replaced the entire roof due to a manufacturing issue that caused rust to appear due to the glue used. Subaru replaced a self-harming gearbox in my WRX.
    Why Australia can’t get it right is beyond belief. I’m tempted to try Euro next time …

  • The Realist

    Confused Says:
    June 14th, 2009 at 4:09 am
    “Nice to know The Realist that you are so rich that you won’t look at anything lesser than German.”

    You don’t need to be rich to afford German – great second hand BMW’s can be had for $50-$60K these days!

  • HAL

    Question to Realist &/or BM:

    I’ve seen both of you write comments many times that there are good 2nd hand europeans to be had for $50-60K. In your experience, if I was looking for a M3 or 335i 2nd hand, what is the maximum age and km’s you would consider to be the limit that you’d seriously consider?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Hal I dont think its an age thing really. Its all about finding a car thats been well looked after ,the less ks the better obviously .

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    I looked seriously over 6 months and found some dogs of cars that had mainly been thrashed or SMG .Private sale is better cause the yards normally have 10k in it for themselves min.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    The previous owner of mine also used it as a weekender /monthly like me so had kept the ks down on it. Looking back I wished Id bought an M3R but few and far between. I paid around 6ks more cause of the low ks and cause its an individual.

    Bottom line try finding a car with less than 100,000 ks ,private sale,checked out at a BMW specialist before you buy it,full service history if you can ,checked for accidents .

    What are you looking at ?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    I bought mine 4.5 years ago with 50 ks on it.It had good province , 2 previous owners the first from WA {which was weird} the last having had it for 4 years he was the president of the BMW Club of NSW and didnt use it as an every day car like me. I paid $66,000 around 6 grand more than the average for her but knew I was getting a good car,plus its an individual model 1 of 4 in Australia.

    Bottom line try finding a car with less than 100,000 ks ,private sale,checked out at a BMW specialist before you buy it,full service history if you can ,checked for accidents .

    What are you looking at ?

  • HAL

    Thanks BM – not looking seriously just yet. But my current car is getting to the point of replacement and the new car options in my price range just aren’t inspiring me. I’d love a new 335 (who wouldn’t!!), but I have to be realistic and a good condition, low k’s 2nd hand 335 or M3 is what I’ll be after (price range $60-70K.

    Will be looking more seriously in the next month or 2, I may run the options by you when the time comes :-)

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    No problem Hal, more than happy to help.

  • nobody

    BM: Yep rather not turn this into BizAdvice as well, but yes have dealt with Chinese manufacturers, mainly in textiles. Never had much issues as you have experienced but I guess everyone’s circumstances are different. Just like people’s experiences with car reliability issues with different badges.

  • The Realist

    HAL Says:
    June 15th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
    “I’ve seen both of you write comments many times that there are good 2nd hand europeans to be had for $50-60K. In your experience, if I was looking for a M3 or 335i 2nd hand, what is the maximum age and km’s you would consider to be the limit that you’d seriously consider?”

    I’d purchase an E92 335i over an E46 M3 (sorry BM!!). Check carsales.com for some great 2007 335i’s for $75K to $80K. Ignore the pricing from those deluded individuals who think the market is the same as last year!!

  • HAL

    Nice one, thanks Realist. I could deal with a 2007, so will search around for a good one for the right price.

    Cheers.

  • Byron

    Australian caras still offer so much v.s japanese etc…

    Agree, Holden is lacking in quality. Cwait for VF. Interior likely up for a makeover which hopefully includes better quality inside. Just wait & see. They’ll bounce back especially with their engines they have installed.

    Ford. Idk how they have survived with FG. Bringing out a car that looks basically the same as the old isn’t right. It seems they couldn’t be bothered to spend $$$. Interior is better than VE, i reckon but exterior, nope sorry.Engines, a V6 yeah.

    Toyota. Who cares. Sick of em. Always on top again & again as top selling brand. There cars are just (F)ugly. Don’t know how they sell. Desperate i think.

    Hopefully things pick up soon :)

  • http://www.homecert-direct.com gas safety london

    Wheelnut, your last coment is totally correct. It is the owners fault. I wonder if the owner thinks the car would be bulletproof to?! I mean come on!!!! Lol.

  • charles

    I agree Realist there are very good buys around for 2nd hand Euros with good km`s, I`m very happy buying 2nd hand Euro`s.

  • Station Wagon

    I’ve had too many bad Experiences with European cars,I’ll never buy one again.Ever.Give me Jap or Aussie.

  • Neo Utopia

    Wow, sooooo many comments, I didn’t get to read them all. Well this is my short comment:

    I will buy Australian made when there is a small to medium sized car which is very fuel efficient (diesel/hybrid), fun to drive, comfortable, very safe, reliable, ergonomic and above all is uniquely Australian in appearance, in a good way that is.

    May be too much to ask for?

  • Matt

    One thing we’re missing here is the image issue….
    Assume you have 80k to spend on a new car: while you could get a HSV, FPV, Statesmam etc, it doesnt have the same “prestige factor” that a Lexus, BMW or Mercedes has.
    To many people, especially trendy city buyers with exposure to international brands, the Holden or Ford has a kind of “bogan image”.

  • Mark

    Have just purchased a XR6Turbo. My local Ford dealership in the Northern Beaches was hopeless, had to go out west to get service. Have had a Falcon for 12 years since coming over from the UK, land of the small economical car. All I can say to those Aussies still with the idea that anything that comes from abroad is better – Total Cost of Ownership. An Australian built car is cheaper to insure and service. Parts are readily available and cheap. Yes they use a little more fuel but they are big, comfy, easy to drive and fast. In the long term I truly believe it will cost less to own a Falcon then say a Mazda 6. When family and friends from the UK and Italy experience what I drive compared to their little boxes, all are in agreement that the Falcon and Commodores are the business. I paid $52K for a fully spec’d XR6T on the road, about 24K pounds. Look in http://www.whatcar.co.uk to see what that gets you in Blighty.

  • lewis

    i have a cruze and a viva and yet i still cannot find a place to buy my body parts new to do it up after the hail damage so yes its and issue cheap aussie made with a price of no supply parts

    • Aussie V8 lover

      The cruze and viva were Korean made, not Aussie.

  • leith

    i have a g6 falcon a its a awsome car to drive especially on long trips. the main reason i bought it was because of my size, im 6’7″ and basically dont fit into most japanese cars. for me the mix of comfort,space, economy and price makes local products more or less the best option.