2008 Ford Falcon Orion Interior and GT Exposed
15 Jun, 2007
1,123 Comments 
Click to see the latest on the 2008 Ford Falcon.
Sporting a set of woolen mitts and beanie, our elusive spy photographer braved the frosty conditions to bring you the latest pictures that the blue oval don’t want anyone to see.
First up, Ford has been extensively testing the use of ’space-saver’ tyres. The following photo shows a space-saver tyre fitted to a vehicle. Our spy photographer tells us that the vehicle seen in the picture – along with crash-helmet clad driver – were performing continuous evasive and high-speed swerving maneuvers, most probably testing the strength and capacity of the space-saver tyre. This suggests that Ford is likely to follow in Holden’s footsteps and also offer this tyre on the new Falcon.
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Second on the agenda is the FPV range of vehicles. Spotted below is either the GT or GT-P. One thing’s for certain, the bulge is here to stay. The cover on the right hand side of the lights is labeled with “remove for night driving,” possibly indicating a Xenon headlight treatment to the upper models in the range. Also written on the front and rear wheel arches is “160mm,” possibly indicating a protrusion of 16cm for the wheel arches.
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Our spy photographer said that the vehicle photographed had an extremely meaty and mean note. It was also running a quick-shifting automatic gearbox, indicating that the ZF will remain on the cards.
Also noted was that the GT featured cross-drilled and slotted Brembo brakes, possibly opening the doors to a higher-capacity braking system.
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Next on the agenda is Ford’s XR8. Sources confirm that the XR8 nameplate will stay and the following photos also confirm that the bonnet bulge will stay.
According to sources, the Fairmont, XR6, XR8, Futura names will remain in the Orion lineup.
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The spy photographer then managed to spot a Futura model doing the rounds near one of Ford’s facilities in Victoria. The images show that Ford’s new Orion will probably carry over the same rear suspension setup as the BF Falcon.
Although a large portion of the interior was covered up, the photos indicate the Futura model spotted will receive woodgrain highlights on the doors. Also evident is a new handle for the door release, along with revised switchgear for the window operation.
A remodeled steering wheel is also on the cards as per the images, along with a new gear selector. A triangular shaped repeated on the side will replace the oval shaped repeater used on the BF. It’s still unclear if Ford will use repeaters on the wing mirrors. Every model spotted so far has had its wing mirrors covered up and the GT or GT-P photographer earlier in this post also has a small portion taped up.
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Padding is visible in the bottom right of the next photo, indicating that the bumper bar is a somewhat fake layout.
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Indicator repeater
The development of the new Falcon seems well in advance. It won’t be long before more and more vehicles are seen on the streets.
Remember, if you have any spy photos of Ford’s new Falcon – or any other vehicle for that matter – contact CarAdvice, if the photos are decent, we’re willing to pay cash (more than the major magazines). High-resolution copies of the images attached are available. Please contact CarAdvice to request copies.
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June 15th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Guys, these are great spy shots, congrats to the phptographer, I hope they’re planning more!!!
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
look closely at the front, the headlight thru the disguse.
BF headlights with the ugly kick down bit, are obviously very similar to this…
:(
yuck!
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Yep, congrats to our photographer. He is a genius! These are the best shots yet!
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Finally some edge-of-seat photos! They are the best yet! The GT is definitely a GT, look at the grille! The front of the car is extremely visible in the GT pics! Bring on the 320kw V8! :)
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Well done!!! Being a female first thing I noticed was the bulge still in the bonnet! Not sure about the interior ,too early for us to know. Remember when the BA GT came out at the motor shows,windows were blacked out as there was no GT interiors fitted still at that stage! The GT version must be on it around the corner as look how low its sitting over the tyres! Also it has a tow bar !! Yippy lets hope they have put a cut out in the bumper for it this time.
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
WHACK!!………… There goes the ugly stick again!
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Great shots as usual. Strange that the GT/GTP mule doesn’t have a spoiler. I wonder if this is just to keep the spoiler design under wraps or that they just aren’t coming with one.
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I would imagine if they put the pram handle on the back it would be a give away,BUT one would think its part of the handling package so how are they testing it with out it?
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
it could be the force 8
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Will they keep the Force 8 ? I thought it was a way of ditching BF GT parts?
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
The spoiler would be used in the wind tunnel. They should be keeping Force 8. Wait and see. Oh Holden watch out.
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
just hope that they make the gt’s and the other fpv cars lighter
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Great. Looks better everytime I look at it. I still don’t know about the back though.
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
i gotta say im a fan of the bootlip over the full spoiler, give it a little more subtlety.
Vote:June 15th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
I think the wing will still be there ,but later!
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 12:02 am
im sure it will, still prefer the lip though
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 12:58 am
So much for all the dribble of the orion being a ‘fresh ‘ design compared with VE, looks like a reconstituted AU once again…ugly stickX2
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 2:51 am
What do ya mean “so much for all the dribble of the orion bring a ‘fresh’ design compared to the VE”, it is a fresh design. If you mean its not totally different as in with Gull wing doors and hatchback styling, then what do you expect from a 4 door sedan.
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 3:01 am
That space saver tyre, maybe thats for the LPG falcons. I’m not sure correct me if i’m wrong some, lpg falcons have space savers as standard and some dealers put full sizers in their place? Funny they use a BFmkII which hints that they are afraid the tyre might pop and send the car crashing, meaning ford dont trust that tyre to be driving a expensive test car. Hmmm. Thats promising. Or the BF Falcon wagon weighs more so they test the heavier car on that tyre, which might suggest the new falcon is lighter?
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 6:01 am
Why oh why the LOOONNG front overhang that makes the car look like a front driver? What is up with that? Short front overhangs are in, but someone forgot to tell Ford.
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 8:27 am
In no particular order can I suggest,
a. it’s not a particular long front overhang when you have to package an INLINE 6 cylinder which a definite strength, rather than a V6. Besides the detail visible in the GT (?) photos show some nice design in the front headlights which are reminiscent of the Mondeo lights … I like it.
b. Everyone gets emotional on space saver tyres and I would prefer a full size spare myself, but making them available as an option for customers who dont worry about such stuff gives plenty of advantages in packaging and luggage space. I’d bet that Ford wont make it standard … just as an option. Currently, the only standard space saver in BF Falcon is on LPG Sedans, but a full size spare is available as a factory build option.
c. the reason I’d suggest that the GT doesn’t have a spoiler is that they would likely put camouflage over it and it would be impossible to see rearward.
c. Looking at the pictures I’m really liking what I’m seeing on the front styling of the car on the GT car. When you compare the firewall forward on the Orion to the BF Wagon … the front box looks far more muscular and dare I say it, has a bit of VT Commodore curve in it without the flared guards. The headlights are a strong feature and very contemporary. I think they will give the car a very powerful presence looking front on.
e. with the camo over the roofline its hard to know for sure whether they have fixed the problems getting into the vehicle (bumping heads) but the roofline looks a lot squarer which gives hope.
f. One thing I do hope that Ford addresses is the passive and active safety package. Stability control standard to complement ABS, EBD and traction control already there. Dual front and side curtain airbags as a minimum standard on ALL models with side (seat fitted) airbags also preferred. No more of this nonsense from Ford (and GM) about the lower models having to pay extra for side, curtain airbags or DSC … it’s ridiculous and ignoring the competitors (including medium size cars) who are making them all standard.
g. If they can get an obvious uplift in build and fitment quality (particularly the interior) then they will be on a good thing!
Its all very exciting though … can’t wait for the car to arrive. The Commode had to spend a billion bucks to catch up in so many areas to Falcon (IRS, driving dynamics, steering). 10% to 20% improvement in certain areas and it will continue to exceed the Commode for driving experience (other than high power V8) … I dont reckon will waste money chasing something they cant beat … better to stick with their comparitive advantage in the 6 cylinder engines and blow the SS models away by turbo power …
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 9:39 am
well is that some kind of air induction at the front of the bonnet bulge on the gt model?? i hope so. maybe even an intercooler?? we all know what that means
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
LOL at you people and the ugly stick. Get over yourselves and remove your colective penises from your Holdens exhaust pipe…
The car hasn’t even been released and you are out in force. Lets just wait and see whether the VE will still be as good once Orion is out.
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
I have to agree with you Axe.
90% of the front and rear is a good decoy, the car is still 10 months away from release.
Look at the defined vertical crease under the cover on the rear end of the 6th photo for instance.
The Ford Falcon is unfairly criticised more than any other manufacturer in the market, and why, it is an Aussie icon and deserves it’s place without the predictable scepticism.
I for one will be trading my BA in on an Orion, the smooth ride and that beautiful Aussie six alone should sell it, not the superficial rapping.
Vote:June 16th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
GO the xr8 i wonder what mags they designed this time as these mags i see look like the xr5 maybe have biger ones for xr in that same concept.
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Blue Blood…
Vote:Well said! exactly what i was thinking…the reality is the BA falocn was a better car than the VY. having said that, the VE is not a major leap above the BF11, so Ford is in a very good position to become class leader with orion. i also think the car is looking quite attractive..i bet orion will look more unique than the VE which is very plain in many styling aspects…even the short front overhang looks weird on some angles in the omega and berlina spec models.
June 17th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Barney Rubble said
June 16 2007 @ 12:58 am
So much for all the dribble of the orion being a ‘fresh ‘ design compared with VE, looks like a reconstituted AU once again…ugly stickX2
[/quote]
haha, the VE front looks a pug nosed BA falcon! and
Vote:the ugly stick is waiting above the VE…
June 17th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
New ford will be good i seen the u.s. pic its been confirmed. ha lick my stick now holden.
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Talk about drible…
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
rumors are they want it released by the end of the year.
I hope they have it right by then!!
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
i really like the gt modle but im thinking its the force 8 because it doesnt make sence why they would leave the spoiler out. plus these are the best pics ive seen so far
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
its a gt u can see it in the forth picture on the grill.
Plus the bonnet buldge looks bigger
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
then wers the spoiler BOB
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
in the boot, it fell off
:P
Vote:June 17th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
yea thats what i thought but i wasn’t shore lol
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Holden fans are wankers……….It has taken Holden 60 years to finally design a car !!!!!! and let me say the VE is a nice car but NOT worth a billion bucks, it really shows that all previous Commodores where a piece of crap to spend that much money and get a car that is maybe a bit better than a five year old Falcon is a laugh !!! I hope the new falcon is a success……….
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Holden is already losing big bucks on there billion dollar baby
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:35 am
How about both Ford and Holden are shyte. TOYOTA Aurion most powerful family 6, most fuel efficient, best looking, best value for money, best safety rating, sold internationally.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
paul i think that would change when the new falcon comes out again…. it always have the best 6 on the market, most power, most torque!!!
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Hey Paul,
your right!! I don’t know why I haven’t see it before. A Toyota Aurion that’s it!!
But hold on…
Where’s the performance version?
even the TRD whatever has been watered down because anything FWD with over 200kw suffers torque steer.
Most powerful family six?
not in torque figues or in suspension and brakes – ever see an Aurion towing anything bigger than a box trailer.
Most fuel efficient?
Well it is a smaller car. And don’t let anyone tell you differently.
Best Looking?
Looks are subjective but side on it looks awfully like a Camry. I wonder why.
But if you like driving something with as much street cred of a fridge so be it.
Best value for money?
up to $50 grand for a rebadged Camry. I don’t think so.
You got me on the safety rating and international sales but I think the Orion will change that.
At the end of the day Paul if you want an over priced Camry, by all means get one, it’s your choice.
However if you want an Australian car designed by Australians for Australia, with the history, legend and sub culture that comes with the brand I suppose the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore will have to do for us laymen.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
QUOTE = Where’s the performance version?
even the TRD whatever has been watered down because anything FWD with over 200kw suffers torque steer.
Well I heard torque steer torque steer torque steer about the Aurion with 200kw on front wheels… Im sure they will work something out to get that power down effectively just like that with the Aurion! And watered down? They dont want ridiculous hype, but latest news is it will be 240kw and 400Nm… thats only slightly off the XR6T which is half a litre more in displacement, with the trump car for the TRD Aurion being that it weighs a good 150kg+ less with the same power!
QUOTE = Most powerful family six?
not in torque figues or in suspension and brakes – ever see an Aurion towing anything bigger than a box trailer.
Ive towed 700kg+ boats with a V6 Camry in the past… sure Falcon and Co are better options with higher low down torque, but the Aurion still has reasonable levels of torque… remember it is lighter as well. Brakes… I dont know where that came from, they all have similar braking power. Suspension its agued isnt the best on the Aurion, but it still handles just as well as the competition!
QUOTE = Most fuel efficient?
Well it is a smaller car. And don’t let anyone tell you differently.
Smaller yet feels still quite large inside…. class leading fuel efficiency, 9.9L per 100km, worth losing 2cm of cabin space!
QUOTE = Best Looking?
Looks are subjective but side on it looks awfully like a Camry. I wonder why.
But if you like driving something with as much street cred of a fridge so be it.
Looks are subjective but the VE is dog ugly and the current Falcon is outdated (awaiting new Falcon). Side on? Not really, it could do with some bigger and more stylish rims, the stock ones dont do it any justice.
QUOTE = Best value for money?
up to $50 grand for a rebadged Camry. I don’t think so.
Up to lol nice to point that out… how about $35k for like 6 air bags, BA, EBD, ESP, Air conditioning (wouldnt ususally mention this but Omega doesnt have it!), 200kw engine, 9.9L per 100km fuel efficency, $100 or so service for the first year or two (cant quite remember), class leading reliablity… and about a dozen other features I cant remember. Base model wise the Aurion IS the best value for money, dont deny that! As you go up the range, the gap shortens between the compeition, for example the SV6 is starting to be comparable to the SX6… but still Toyota offers other features the others dont; quality, reliability etc.
QUOTE = At the end of the day Paul if you want an over priced Camry, by all means get one, it’s your choice.
Ive just highlighted that this ‘overpriced camry’ makes your VE and Falcon look like highway robbery! It shares the central frame with the camry (which isnt a bad thing, cheaper parts duh), the rest including the interior of that central part is unique. And guess what… an Aussie helped design the whole thing! What is overpriced is asking $35k for the VE Omega… no A/C, a pre-historic 4 speed transmission, the least powerful engine at 180kw, 2 airbags (correct me if Im wrong)…etc
QUOTE = However if you want an Australian car designed by Australians for Australia, with the history, legend and sub culture that comes with the brand I suppose the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore will have to do for us laymen.
As said, an Aussie helped designed the Aurion… the history I get is bad on the Commodore and not great on the Falcon. The VE is that well built for Aussie conditions it doesnt come with Air Conditioning!
Dont get me wrong, Im eagerly awaiting the new Falcon… I use to be a Ford fan and out of the two ‘locals’ (if you could call GM and Ford locals)… its the better option for mine, even the current Falcon I rate over the VE!
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Toyota Aurion, hahahhahaha
Pretty good if you driving white goods.
Most pwerful 6 in it’s class YES
Shame it’s good 5/8 of fuck all of torque and you have to rev the crap out of it to get it moving at any rate.
It is well equiped though.
Aurion was voted last out the Commy, Falcon, Magna and Aurion in a recent test by a car magazine.
Look out billion dollar flop the Falcon is coming
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Paul- TRD is not going up against the XR6 turbo… why you ask??? its because it not a base car,,,a standard model its a specail like a GT, GTS…or who i think as a special car that is a 6… the typhoon the only car in its class in australia, a specialised 6 cylinder proformace vehicle… so lets get real…. 240Kw supercharged aurion VS the 270kw turbo charge typhoon…who will win…lol!!! and when you think about it the XR6 turbo in say a year will be a bout 260-270kw when the aurion comes out!!! lol!! and the Typhoon will be packing a punch with about 300Kw.. so bring it on TRD aurion!! lol that fingure of 240kw will look so little and crapy with a year!!! lol!!
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Sorry i meant the new orion XR6 Turbo will have about 260-270Kw… so i think it will be close between the TRD aurion and the XR6 turbo till the new falco comes out and bye bye to the TRD
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
QUOTE = Sorry i meant the new orion XR6 Turbo will have about 260-270Kw… so i think it will be close between the TRD aurion and the XR6 turbo till the new falco comes out and bye bye to the TRD
We will have to wait an see… but eitherway its my understanding that the TRD Aurion isnt all about hair raising speed, its being placed against the Liberty GT etc… combination of performance, driveability and luxury.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Ha! so true about the Toyota John Holmes. I have had a drive of V6 Camrys in the past and you do have to rev the crap out of them to get a decent amount of power. Whats the point of better fuel economy when you cant get yourself out of trouble when need be. Toyota’s will always have the boringness factor. I have owned Falcons, Fairmonts in the past and since went to a Mazda which I am about to get rid of because nothing gives you the power and ride of a locally built Ford. Glad that Ford is finally taking the fight to Holden, and I am sure that you have every driver with half a brain in Australia behind you!
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
^
Depends which V6 Camry you have owned. I have owned a number, different engine have different characteristics, V6 Camrys with the 3VZ-FE engine have 90% torque at 2000RPM while the 1MZFE (the more recent engine) needs to be revved harder. But this is a completely new engine, its 3.5L as opposed to 3L, it has nearly 50kw more then outgoing V6 Camry, same story with torque. Read the reviews and take the Aurion for a spin… you can rest assure to get peak performance you will have to rev it, but under normal driving it has no issues and returns great fuel efficiency.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Paul,
There is no doubt the Aurion is a stong package and the falcon is long overdue for a face lift.
I to have owned a Toyota and it , as all makes had it’s strengths and weakness but when I wanted a bigger car the Camry fell short.
I live in the NT and tow a 1500kg ski boat 120km to a dam with five people on board at 130kph very, very comfortably in my BA Falcon.
My BA is not “Shyte” it’s never broken down in 4 years the engine is still strong and quiet, the 4 speed is still smooth and refined and with the sports pac body kit, suspension and 17in alloys it is still a handsome car.
It’ll be hard to part with when the time comes (yes it will be an Orion).
It is a shame though and a reality that most parts on an Aussie car are imported. I fear even the beloved ford inline 6 days are numbers with rumors that Fords new V6 will replace it eventually. But I just feel I’ve done the right thing supporting the Australian car industry when buying one, as arguably one does when buying a Camry or Omega.
And that, in the end can be what it comes down to for alot of people, not extras or styling or power but how a car makes you feel when you get in it and drive.
It’s refreshing to have an arguement on a Blog Paul without getting too personal – well done!!
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
I’ve gotta say, the Falcon GT is looking HOT! Thats what I’m talking about! It’s aggressive, styling looks fantastic, the bulge is back! I think the bulge has become an ‘item’ now with the Falcon V8s (XR8 & FPV’s), sort of the same like the shaker was to the XY GT because the reason for the bulge was to fit the V8s in. Since Fairlane, LTD is no more, I think FPV will be able to splurge on the Force 8 some more, getting back to the luxury/sports market hopefuly. Keep up the good work and good on ya caradvice.com, more recognition should be given to these jokers on their site!! SP
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
I really like the force 8 it’s sporty and luxury does anyone no if ford will get rid of it in the orion modle?
I really hope they dont
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
paul i still cant figure you out,
you go on about saving fuel then you hit out in wanting great power. want to save fuel buy the gas model falcon, yes ford are still the only one to offer a decent “green” option that actually has power. and anyway the falcon economy isnt too far behind the aurion anyway and i think the new falcon should at least match it.
i have had the power/torque debate with you before so could you please stop calling the aurion the most powerfull.
also ford also runs what is possibly the best 6sp in the world so dont get too excited about your toyotas gearbox being the “ducks nuts”
and all of this aside dont forget the falcon is essencially 5 years old and come the release of the new one and all of toyotas hard work in trying to come out of the shaddows might be undone
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
QUOTE = you go on about saving fuel then you hit out in wanting great power. want to save fuel buy the gas model falcon, yes ford are still the only one to offer a decent “green” option that actually has power. and anyway the falcon economy isnt too far behind the aurion anyway and i think the new falcon should at least match it.
Ok I cant figure you out! The aim of an efficient engine is to get max power with minimal fuel.. so your first sentence here amuses me. As for the gas model, well I dont know about the Falcon but I worked out with the gas Omega that it would take some 5 years to recoup the extra cost of a gas powered cared (I think it was $4k+ more for the gas Omega). So its not worth it especially when you lose power with gas.
QUOTE = i have had the power/torque debate with you before so could you please stop calling the aurion the most powerfull.
Lol its a fact is it not? ITS THE MOST POWERFUL. Im not saying it has the most torque.. it has 200kw of POWER, the Falcon has 190kw of POWER and the Commodore at its peak has 195 kw of POWER. And Ive fowarded my arguments in relation to torque, the Aurion certainly isnt lacking in this department which is evidenced by taking it for a drive or if your lazy reading the many non-biased reviews (ie anything but Wheels or other mags associated with Holden).
QUOTE = also ford also runs what is possibly the best 6sp in the world so dont get too excited about your toyotas gearbox being the “ducks nuts”
Yes I am aware, its one of its strong points… a reason why I previously said I like the Falcons!!! But the Aurion trans is also very good… you cant have a poke at the Aurion in that respect, only the VE Commodore which offers a 4 speed. Sad part about that is they have the tranny for it, the SV6 has a I think a 5 speed… they are just screwing over the Aussie public or more so fleets who dont care about pay $35k for that crap.
QUOTE = and all of this aside dont forget the falcon is essencially 5 years old and come the release of the new one and all of toyotas hard work in trying to come out of the shaddows might be undone
I have acknowledged that as well! The way I see it, and Im not being biased here, CURRENTLY the Aurion is the market leader (not in sales Im talking for what they offer)… the Falcon is second, then the VE and last is the 380 (if we were talking base models only… the 380 would be ahead of the VE)… I believe this is the order even what the Large Car awards had them in. Once the Falcon comes out things will no doubt change and they will take the lead, they have had time to benchmark against the competition afterall and they offer a larger range of vehcles then Toyota.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Funny how Ford are copying Holden in a number of ways, in particular with the flaired guards. In regarding Holdens 4 speed auto, that is going very soon if you properly read all car news reports instead of only those with a car you like. Um and you think the VE will always run at a loss. The 1 billion spent on designing the VE will be covered by a years supply of Commodore’s being exported to the U.S.A not even including the other current and future export markets. The VE rules as sales figures have proven for over 10 years straight and you must think all those people and also the fleets would pick a vehicle if it was substandard. The Foulcan won’t change that. Remember AU(awfully ugly, BA (Bloody awful) and BF (Bloody F%$ked) Compared to VE (very, exciting, very enticing, very excellent ) or many others.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Oh and I forgot to mention the cylinder displacement on demand is coming inside 12 months as well as turbo diesel V6. You will find even more improvements in the VE series 2 due out close to orion foulcans release. Whatever Ford will throw you can guarantee the Commodore will trump it and the auriyawn. Check mate.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
In reply to John.
Mate…Holden didn’t invent flared wheel arches!
If anything, they copied them off BMW in a try-hard attempt to make the Omega look like an M3!
I love the clever antonyms…how cute.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
does anyone know what this model falcon will be called? i remeber all the mags labelling the BA the ‘AV’ falcon before it came out, anyone got any idea
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Yeah flared arches… and ummm the Falcon ones looks reasonable, the Holden ones are a disgrace.
Now for the rest…
QUOTE = In regarding Holdens 4 speed auto, that is going very soon if you properly read all car news reports instead of only those with a car you like
I have read around… havent heard anything. And if they do, it doesnt change anything… Holden have been screwing people over trying to earn every cent they can on a budget with a 4 speed tranny when they have a 5 speed, with a 180kw engine when they have a 195kw engine, when they have air conditioning but they make it an option, when they have stability control but dont make it standard, when they have 6 airbags but dont make it standard… list goes on. Why didnt they have all these in the first place? Because they were taking the Aussie public for a ride while the Japs give it from the start! Gotta ask yourself… whos side are they really on!?
QUOTE = The VE rules as sales figures have proven for over 10 years straight and you must think all those people and also the fleets would pick a vehicle if it was substandard
No fleets mean everything. The reason why their private sales are so low, even when considering people do wait for the fleet cars to buy as they are cheaper…. has alot to do with your prviate buyers actually having to put their hands down their OWN wallets and use money they worked hard to EARN. Given this, you look for the best car without caring if its image is ‘Australian’ or not. Thats why Toyota and Co get alot of private purchases while those private buyers who want Falcons etc wait till they are cheaper because given their lack of value for money it wouldnt be wise for them to buy new! And on fleets, they often give employees only two choices… Falcon or Commodore. That has a major effect as to why these two models have around 80% fleet sales. They often dont offer Toyotas etc because they want an ‘Aussie’ image…. yet for example the Aurion is by far better then the disgraceful Omega, which as a result isnt shown when it comes to sales (although combined Camry and Aurion sales are doing very well).
QUOTE = Whatever Ford will throw you can guarantee the Commodore will trump it and the auriyawn. Check mate.
Omega : 0-100km/h in 9seconds
—————————–
Aurion : 0-100km/h in 7.4seconds
‘Check Mate’… not to mention Ive owned V6 Camrys from last century that were quicker then this new Omega. POS.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
This driving machine looks like the new Ford Mondo!
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
At least the new Falcon will come with standard air-conditioning…unlike the Commodore Omega! What a bloody joke.
Vote:June 18th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Must agree that VE wheelarches are terrible, huge. Look like they were designed by grade 4s… “Aw, Sick! They’re so big mate!” The Orions seem much, much more subtle thank God.
On topic,
thanks for more great pics. Orion Falcon is will be on my buying list. The Ford inline six is already a wonderful motor to drive on country roads, and smooth on city visits. Economical, too! (8L/100km country)
I have driven the new Toyota Camry and other Tojos quite extensively, and Paul is right to suggest they are good. However, for me the Ford is hard to top for where and how I like to drive… can’t explain it, every Ford we have owned has been loved, and every Falcon I have sold I have missed. No other brand, except my old LandCruiser, has imbued such loyalty.
See you at the dealer’s in late 07/early 08!
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Il stick with the xr8 toyota are a quick perkly lil car very popular o.s.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 12:43 am
But the have some quick perky fords too like a mini ba lookin thing rs edition.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Forget about it…
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 2:33 am
i dont wanna start a riot here but i dunno something just doesnt sit right with the aurion being in the same class as falcon and commodore. it may be my overpowering sence of australian pride and my distaste to anything from toyota, or maybe its the fact its FWD. i dont know ive never like toyota, i never plan to own one, and althought im sure im gonna cop a beating for it i dont have any eveidence to suggest why, its just a gut feeling.
HOWEVER… everyone has their own opinion and labelling a car something that is either wrong or distasteful i feel is rather stupid. if you have a gut feeing follow it… even if it is for toyota.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 2:58 am
It’s seems they’re doomed if they do and they’re doomed if they don’t.
Before every release car enthusiasts say they want to see ‘revolutionary’, ‘cutting edge’, or’fresh’ design from the latest Comm or Falc and then if either company comes up with anything bar a A6/5series/E-class(usually the 5year old or mid cycle car from these brands) mash up they start screaming ‘ugly stick’.
BA looked like a six year old Audi and VE is derivative of BA. Australian designed cars are never going to be either ‘revolutionary’ or ‘cutting edge’ as Ford and Holden seem to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the Australian consumer wants vanilla and conservative with perhaps a few go fast bits tacked on for the sports models.
Anyone who looks at Falcons or Commodores and can’t see how comprehensively derivative they are of truly ground breaking design houses like those of BMW and Merc has their head in the sand and is probably the kind of person who wears the Australian flag to sporting events (even those where Australian’s aren’t competing).
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 3:15 am
Let me clarify what I meant by VE being derivative of BA I only mean this in hte sense that VE resembles BA not that VE studied BA and took styling cues from it.
I needed to vent a little. The new Falcon looks good, but none the less somewhat derivative, this is always going to be the case and is not necessarily a fault all the major brands look to other designers for inspiration and direction and look at ‘trends’. This studying of trends is vital. I think that the front lights are reminiscent of the Honda Accord Euro(no bad thing). The rear lights which can be seen in other photos more clearly(not the ones avalable here) look fairly original with a dip mirring the one found in hte headlights. This is bound to be met with cries of ‘ugly stick’ as it is seemingly original.
I’d like to see Falcon’s and Commodores take some huge risks with design of course huge risks rarely pay off but they can eg Chrysler 300C.
One problem that plagues falcon’s of the past in particular is that they lack a ‘face’ that evolves. The progressive change from VN to VP to VR VT etc shows an evolving face whereas falcon seems to be constantly searching for a ‘look’. The aesthetic transition from XF to EA was fairly smooth but ED to EF was more of a jump and then EL to AU, what a shock. Companies need to telegraph design cues to the consumer so they do not come as a shock.
BF to Orion looks set for a fairly smooth transition and maybe Falcon has found a face they can call their own again (like they did in the XY to XA change over of the 70s).
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 6:49 am
so where is the new orion?
Vote:Their pics of the ba/bf
June 19th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Julian,
in a way you are spot on. the designers are too scared to make any radical changes to their cars appearences. ford tried it (with the AU) and nearly got shot by the public. it was cause of the shock factor you talked about because people did not immediately recognise/relate to it. thats why the AU11 had new panels to try square it up a bit. but on the other hand it could be said as the series that the XR6 took off a fair bit. people didnt mind that cause they wanted something that was a bit more distinguished from the base falcon.
I dont know how anyone can make decisions on looks at this point either. there are a few things you can make assumptions on but thats it. yes im predicting a more recognisable transition this time. for one i think they were just testing headlight changes with the BF11 to gradually work in the “slant” that this new one seems to have
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Aston, ford suck, troy JUST TO MENTION A FEW OF THE JELOUS PEOPLE WASTING THERE TIME LYING, YOU GUYS ARE EITHER BI-EST OR JELOUS THAT YOU SUPPORT THE OTHER CODE’S WHO CANT COMPETE IN LOOKS WITH THE FALCON, WORST CASE SCENARIO EVEN IF IT LOOKED LIKE BA, THE BA WAS A SEXY CAR ANYWAY
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
the xy to xa was the the biggest change ford did..
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Where the hell do all the Holden rejects get off saying that the VE is an original model!? Sorry guys but looking at the VE it kinda looks a lot like a BA Falcon! I’m sure that Holden had the original design planted away in their “brains” somewhere…
Vote:Holden are a weak excuse of a car! They aren’t even Australian any more! At least Ford Australia are capable of making their own engines and don’t have to import them in from the USA like Holden do.
Even if the Orion is a failure (i doubt) then it doesn’t really matter because Ford have a 6 cyl car that can kick every single V8, V6, and 4cyl that Holden GM have ever created! So stick that right up your dodgey looking Holden SV6 Commodore Tailpipe…
June 19th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Judging by the photos… the Falcon (or at least the lower models) still doesnt have LED rear brake lights and I doubt it will have projector headlamps. Finer details still something to be desired.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Forget about it.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Holden and it’s supporters are one-eyed 20th century bogans and thats a fact, have you seen the people that drive new and used Holdens? they bloody wear ugg boots to the shops, what derelict bogans, get some style and substance…
Orion is literally going to $hit all over the Holden’s billion dollar bungle. Whoever said the VE looked ‘european’ – you have to be joking, to my best knowledge all the latest euros have curves! not f**king obese wheel arches and rectangular parts everywhere…
VE? typical fat American lard (why do you think GM want them so much?)
Orion? car for modern Australia.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
So far i love what i c the ve commodore looks like a space ship the front is 2 high and chunky the new falcon looks like it has a sleek design ITS HOT
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Damn straight! Holden have tried to combine a 2003 Falcon with a TS Astra, not a good mix.
Vote:And Paul, pull your finger out of your arse.
Ford have had projector headlamps since 1993! Just look at the XR6 or XR8 in the ED, EF, EL, AU 1-3 series! Last time I checked, they have projector head lamps… And who really cares about LED Tail lights! Whoa! Don’t wanna miss out on them!
And another thing, Toyota have ever only made one good model car, and that would be the Supra.
June 19th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Its hot forget about it.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
i like the new ve holden and i like fords but i havent seen the ford orion so i cant really campare it to the holden. Those picturs look like the bf the only difrence i see is the door handles and the front bumper the rest looks like the bf not that thats bad i love the bf falcon its very nice i love the gt and the xr modles there really hot. looking forwed to seeing the orion uncuverd.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
ye your write it does look like the bf with difernt doors and a diferent bumper. does any one els thinks so as well.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
The doors have a nice curv at the bottom and will be good once uncovered.forget about it…
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
IT alot different forget about it..
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
What a warmed over piece of shiit.
Vote:Hello, it’s AU all over again !!!
June 19th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Gavin,
The DNA of the XA is distinctly Ford and the obvious evolution of the XY. Though there are notable and significant differences such as a proliferation of curves over more squarish panels on the XY the XA still maintained many cues from it’s predecesor such as the headlight arrangement and the hip line on the rear doors.
The first car in a new generation always carries many of the trademarks of the previous incarnation. The BF to orion looks set to carry on with this tradition.
It is to Ford’s detriment when they do not telegraph cues from one generation to the next eg the massive leap from EL to AU there was a jump from ED to EF.
This new Falcon looks pretty good so far. Here’s hoping they improve the build quality which is a major concern to consumers considering a private purchase and an area which has been notoriously poor on falcon’s past.
Vote:June 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Ford sux,
Vote:how is this the AU all over again?
June 20th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Geez there alot of one-eyed biased Holden Supporters here who just want to say, its ugly, its AU again. Usually this happens when they’re scared that it is a better car than their precious rebadged Opel’s.
Anyway from what i can see the Orion is looking very tough especially the FPV and XR’s. I really want to see drive train specs though. Safe to say ZF auto and inline 6 are staying but what is happening with the V8’s, will the Boss remain or is it a new engine, hopefully an Alloy block instead of cast iron to save weight I know ford have been testing that.
Ok for all those VE lovers, have a chat to AVIS car rentals, ask them how many problems they’ve had with VE’s, or NRMA and ask them how many calls they’ve had on them. The SS is the only good looking VE out there. The other models look out of proportion with 16″ steelies underneath those massive wheel arches, and the bum sticks up way too high.
And Ford aren’t copying Holden with the wheel arches, big wheel arches have been around for a long time. But if anyone is copying someone, its Holden copying the Ford Focus with those wheelarches.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Oh and the reason why there is no wing on the GT, is cos its mostly cosmetic at road speeds so is not needed on the test vehicles.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
y the hell are there holden fans on this site are use scared fords better then holden
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
this car looks so tough the ve is going to look week compared to it.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
yea i agrea with you BOB
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
paul,
Vote:I admit i looked to see if tails were led too. (just out of interest)
but i reckon ford has prob the 2nd best thing to led’s at the moment. their design at the moment (on all territory’s and from BF mk1 on) at a quick glance look like led’s. the light is scattered from inside the taillight using reflectors rather than the typical coloured diffuser cover. thus making a very clear light, and no or little interference from the sun
June 20th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
^
Yeah thats abit of a trend with the non-LEDs looking like that. But still I find it disappointing, it doesnt have quite the same appeal and its comes down to one thing… cost cutting. But Im not gonna crucify the Falcon over that, particularly when you have the E with a 4 speed tranny going about as a ‘new car’ in the year 2007.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
* E = VE of course.
Fingers crossed the FPVs have the LEDs just like they have the Xenons now.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
The main improvement I’d really like to see is a smaller steering wheel. The BF MKII Falcon is great in every feature apart from the massively huge steering wheel…
Vote:But even if they don’t do that, the Car is still gonna look hot as. :P
June 20th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Long 1990’s nose and ancient dash to axle signify the fact that this is a reskin of the current platform…..
Even if the the styling is half decent, it will be impossible to hide the old proportions…
VE will have it all over this car styling and proportion wise, for years to come I’m afraid…
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
^
Are you for real? IMO the VE was a step back from the outgoing model in terms of styling, I honestly think the VE looks fugly, especially in base forms where its crappy features like a fat arse and large wheel arches are exentuated.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
We all know that Ford is way better than Holden. We all know that only hooligans drive Holdens. We all know that Ford has always been and will always be the best car on the road. We all know that the only way Holden can win on the track is to run the Ford off the road.
The Falcon is better finished inside than the Commode. The Falcon looks sleeker on the road than Commode. By the way, commode is another word for toilet. Appropriate, don’t you think.
I have great faith in the design teams at Ford. I will also admit that someone dropped the ball when they released the AU, but they have more than made up for that with release of the BA.
I, for one, can’t wait for the Orion to hit the road. I will be trading in my XR8 for a new Orion. The only decision I have to make is…..XR8 or FPV.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
of course youd say that, youre an aurion nut
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Yes chopper thats why I am saying I rate the Falcon over the Commodore… Im a nut for logic. Something alot of people dont have around here, the Aurion is a damn fine car. The VE was a billion dollar blunder. The Falcon for mine has in recent history been the superior of the two in most aspects, I cant see this changing especially when considering that the current Falcon already has it over the VE, they aernt going to get worse just better.
Vote:June 20th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
i think theres more bias than logic in your reasoning
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 10:29 am
There appears to be a lot of padding under the front and back black-outs. At a guess I’d say the front and back is very rounded which I believe will soften the extent of overhangon the Orion. I do hope that Ford has included a turbo diesel in their engine lineup.
We seem to have a classic BMW-Mercedes comparison ala Commodore-Falcon. Have a look at the styling comparisons.
One thing that does stand out with the new VE Commodore is that it’s quite high. When you look out your rear vision mirror the VE looks like a 4X4, high with flared guards.
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 11:00 am
Post of mine must have been deleted or didnt come up… there is logic in most of my stuff chopper, Aurion is a quality car. Im eagerly awaiting the Falcon as I think it will be a true contender, the current Falcon is decent but being older lacks in some areas, such as airbags and stability control. The new one will be updated and provide better value then the Commodore which relies solely on fleets who couldnt care less about the car as long as its ‘aussie’ buying their crap.
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 1:33 pm
When is fpv going to improve there engine kws,290 is so out of date,ive heard whispers the 08 gt,s will be 320kws,can someone confirm that for me,then il put my order in.
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pm
we wont know the offical figures until the release date of the new GT
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Tony m
why would we want a turbo diesel falcon?
and can anyone please tell me what is sooo good about diesel? i dont understand it. yeah they are a bit more economical, but 9 times out of 10 diesel costs more at the bouser. also you lose power aswell (i know you gain torque but it doesnt make up for it). and above all that, doesnt diesel release more pollutants?
i cannot understand why car makers would invest time and money in to developing diesel engines for their vehicles.
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 7:53 pm
the dj falcon produces 320 with a mild cam change
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Yeah I too think why the huge amount of love for diesel when it doesnt do anygood for the environment (thats if is not biodiesle).
Falcon dont need a diesel engine, they already have LPG going for them. If people want diesel, than drop it in the teritory.
As for the pirce of diesel being expencive, here in SA is quiet cheap. ($1.20-$1.26 , while ULP $1.21-$1.40)
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 10:05 pm
well i agrea with andrew about why making a ford turbo diesel. well what i say is if they bring out a turbo diesel they should drop the lpg. or they should make a lpj turbo that would be cool.
Vote:June 21st, 2007 at 10:53 pm
they are making a hydrogen turbo xr6. the got some funding from the gocernment and they are working on it
Vote:June 22nd, 2007 at 2:59 pm
I agree with Paul on this, the VE Commodore has been released just under a year and has already outdated itself.
Vote:The newer Falcon Orion will be the outstanding competitor for the Aurion. Although Toyota has been named the world’s most reliable and most economical car brand. Ford is still going to put a large fight against them. And with the Falcon Orion they just might be able to out do them… Stranger things have happened.
As for Holden, the Orion is going to mop the floor with them. Sorry Holden rejects, but it’s true.
June 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm
it looks like shit
Vote:June 22nd, 2007 at 3:22 pm
azza your a dickhead aurion sucks balls like u hsv maloo worlds fastest ute what u got nuthin
Vote:June 22nd, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Azza I wouldnt go so far as to say the Falcon is going to help Ford on itself… but they are in with a great chance with the Focus (esp the new Focus whenever that comes out), soon to be Mondeo (again a true competitor UNLIKE the Daewoo Epica to the Camry) and the Falcon. It would seem that Ford and Toyota are going from strength to strength while Holden is doing the oppositie, with a total of 5 Daewoos (Epica, Viva, Daewoo, Captiva, Barina) having had the unfortunate task of wearing the Lion badge. Currently all isnt extremely bad at Holden because fleets are holden them up and so are the taxes on imports, but if these variables change then they are up shyte creek without a paddle because what they offer to prviate buyers is sub-standard.
Vote:June 22nd, 2007 at 3:31 pm
QUOTE = azza your a dickhead aurion sucks balls like u hsv maloo worlds fastest ute what u got nuthin
Hahaha worlds fastest because no-one in their right mind gives a flying f*ck about utes… they aernt performance cars, they would have to have one of the worst weight distributions going around… not to mention no weight where it matters – over the drive wheels. Good for shoving tools in the back though.
Vote:June 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pm
holden might have the fastest ute but fords still beter thats for shore
Vote:June 22nd, 2007 at 4:57 pm
But they don’t have the fastest ute…
Vote:They don’t have the fastest or best looking anything. Sorry but the way I see it, Holden started going downhill from the VT model and on.
June 23rd, 2007 at 5:18 am
Hey i want xr8 290kw or 320kw gt game over hsv.
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 5:20 am
Forget about it xr8 is 290kw this time.
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 10:30 am
^
Can you just ‘forget about’ the oncoming bus next time you cross the road.
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 6:18 pm
So if thats true that the XR8 and FPV V8 Series are going up to 290kw and 320kw would that mean that the F6 Typhoon and Tornado will go up to 300kw?
Vote:Or will they go higher due to APS’ arrival in scene and making the F6 Engine up to 309kw in the Phase 2 Typhoon and Phase 3 Tornado in 2006?
June 23rd, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Geeez mate you have some issues, split personality. Do you hear voices inside your head? You aernt that guy who has pics of Naomi Robsons head stuck to bikini models all over your bedroom wall are you… thought you got locked up lol
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Paul you are right…. I do have a split personality, my medication has worn off so I get like this. I dont wanna ask for more though because see Im in jail and Im someones bitch, if I move Im going to get punished again… although I actually enjoy it.
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Ohhhh k Tony, I thought so… hope you get better soon.
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Bloody hell, I realise it’s very camouflaged but YUCK! I was really hoping they’d pull out something attractive this time. I want to see massively flaring wheel arches, short fat bonnets and super high windowsills. Someone take a freakin cue from Commodore. I hope they prove me wrong on launch day.
Vote:June 23rd, 2007 at 10:03 pm
yes yes james’ i wish they could make a car just the way i wanted it aswell
Vote:June 24th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
have been looking on the internet and have found some interesting news. The 6.2 Ltr V8 is still under developement and can be made for strong displacement all the way up to 7.0 Ltrs. The power output for the 6.2Ltr is around 317kws and torque is 576Nm. The engine layout thatwe will see is a DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder. The engine block is deep skirt with cross bolted mains. The Bore diameter is 102mm centerline and a 95mm stroke. There will also be a 5.8Ltr/355in2 DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder V8 with the same bore size but a shorter (89mm) stroke. There are also rumors of a Twin Turbo variant going under developement with all V8 engines with direct fuel injection. If they come over here with in the next 3 to 5 years, expect them to have varible cam timing. Intake valve size is 2.10″ and 1.62″ exhaust. They will most likely be All Alloy!!! We asked for a real ford V8 and now it looks like we may just get what we asked for. Go the Blue oval. P.S, I think they have mistake the XR^ Turbo for thr F6 Typhoon and the new orion falcon looks the works, exspecially the GT.
Vote:Come on GT-HO
June 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
go ford
Vote:June 24th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
christine said holdens are dumb
Vote:June 24th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
it just looks like a large focus to me
Vote:June 25th, 2007 at 6:14 am
I am concerned with the space saver tire possibility. I drive a taxi on night shift and while it may be perfectly safe to run that tyre from point of puncture to the tyre dealer for repair and refit I wouldn’t want to work a shift on one driving anything up to 500km.
Hopefully they remain an option and the full sized spare is still available while not revisiting the complete joke that was the AU with the spare in the middle of the boot effectively making the boot useless.
Vote:June 25th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Ok, firstly, any Falcon designed in Australia, is a step above the Opel inspired Bomb-a-dore… tell me when did Holden actually make their OWN engine, I beleive it was the black motor in the VK.
The VE looks like a cross between an Audi, a 380 and BMW… a billion dollars to copy someone elses design doesn’t make much sense to me. The only thing ‘Australian’ about the Commodore is the Lion Badge (even that is probably designed overseas)
Orion should kick the VE out of the race… although we do live in a country that kept John Howard in power for so many terms.
Vote:June 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
The new falcon looks like an el falcon and the ba/f series falcon put together. Looks extremely good. With more powerful engines across the range (From Ben Before about the new V8 engines) and the new front end suspension set-up which is better then the current falcon and commodore and a more refined Control Blade IRS which is the best rear end set-up in Australia, not if the world. Add T/C, ABS, ESP and all the other goods and every car the is made in Australia and some in the world instintly look second grade. Then you have better interior, better build quility, more room, more equipement, more power and torque, class leading engine and better fuel economy. The BF is alredy a great car which is only marginly worse then the new VE, and the Falcon (BF) is 5 years old, once the new falcon comes out, the VE Holden range and the Toyota Aurion range (also HSV and TRD) will once agin, be second best to the all AUSTRALIAN Falcon. Go FORD, FPV and Lowndsey with the win a Hidden Valley.
Vote:June 25th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
hey does anyone know if the territory gets an upgrade? also is the falcon wagon going to live on?
Vote:June 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
yes i can guaranty you the terittory will et an update
Vote:June 25th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
well do you know how extensive it will be?
Vote:does the wagon get the chop?
June 26th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Yeah the falcon wagon will continue and will have leaf sprung rear suspension. Which is good, because it doesn’t get wierd retarded looking camber like on the holden wagons. Which is why coroners use falcon wagons to carry dead bodies. The wagon will be more biased to load carrying (eg the Coroner market) with a boot which will be bigger than the territory (with coroner usage in mind), rather than trying to be sporty which is not the aim of a coroner.
Vote:June 26th, 2007 at 1:17 am
Take a look on http://www.wheelsmag.com.au they have a video of the Orion Falcon dust testing. Of course return to this wonderful site after you have viewed the video :)
Vote:June 26th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
ugliest falcon yet. Ford has gotta do better than this or they will go bankrupt. this looks like another ugly AU falcon. Geezuz guys what has this Australian icon come to? Holden is gonna sh*t all over this one. Guaranteed.
Vote:June 26th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I’ve always thought fords are absolute rubbish, This simply proves my theory.
Vote:June 26th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
how on earth can you tell ford is rubish you havent eaven seen it uncoverd yet and u dont know what fetures its got do how is it rubish
Vote:June 26th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
i think i can explain the lack of a spoiler on the gt maybe its not a gt at all maybe its the force 8 because it had the same bodykit to the gt just no spoiler case closed
Vote:June 26th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Gwiz,
Vote:in a way you are right, the holden will shit all of its dodgy parts over the falcon. I mean all of holdens parts are just falling to pieces at the moment and any thing near them will be shat on as they let go.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Gwiz, your a moron. Ford have always been the ones on top it’s just that people have always seen Holden as the Australian built car. If you went out there and asked someone who knows very little about cars; “Where is the Ford Falcon produced?” The chances are they would answer USA. That is why people have always like Holden more. Where as facts have it, the Falcon is more Australian then what Holden has ever been. In fact Holden haven’t been made in Australia since the mid 80’s.
Vote:On another note, Ford have always had the better engines. And if anyone uses the point that Holden win more in the V8’s I will smack them upside the face! The V8 Supercars do not have stock built engines!!!
June 26th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Daewoo………..ooooppss ……i mean Holden …….have already dropped the price of the VE. They wont make any money exporting the things as the exchange rate is so close. Anyway the Monaro was a failure over there ………….. Oh………the reason Holden are almost a complete Daewoo company is that they can only afford to put a badge on Daewoos as they wasted 1 billion dollars on bringing the Commodore almost up to date with the Falcon……and they still have a inferior driveline !!!!!
Vote:June 27th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Man paul and the rest of you can suck my fat one, this is about ford and their new Falcon, you can fuck off to some other place and talk about you little shity toyotas.
Now i agree with those of you who say that the VE was brought up to just above the standard of the BA/F, but you hear about all of these car reports on the VE vs. BA/F, but you can not say that the VE is better cause the BA/F is a 5 year old car. i just cant wait till the new Falcon comes out then we can do some real test.
another thing that gets me is just because V8 supercars are doing well in the holden pits doesnt mean that holden is better in everything, each V8 supercar is worth about $400,000, now im sure if i had that sort of money to spend on my ford, it would be faster than any holden every made!
Cars are looking great and cant wait till they are released!
look out holden ford is rising again.
Vote:June 27th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
AH ,I wont take you up on your offer Boondy!
But I do agree with you on the V8 Supercars.
Plus when the BA first came out against the Red Army it won for 3 years running. Now the BF is having big problems with aerodynamics against the slipperier VE. However,with Craig winning the last race imagine how he will go with a NEW CAR!! Keep him away from Crash Bandicoot though. God I hate they CHEAT !
Vote:June 27th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
does any one know if the ford orion will be direct ingection because i have herd thats how they are going to get it up to 200kw. does any one know if this is true or not
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 4:33 am
You guys sound like a bunch of kids coming up with some crazy invention. What if this, what if that. Don’t you guys understand the game? Holden would be stupid to crush ford within a couple of years. They need Ford as Ford needs Holden. They will make slow releases giving them a slight competitive edge over Ford. It’s about sales and profit margins. I am a Holden boy but even I hope that ford doesn’t completely die. Ps don’t kid yourselves, Ford wants these pics released so expect more.
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 4:41 am
Toyota should focus on making squad car for the cops. Think about it, it wouldn’t need to be quick because anyone who is into cars wouldn’t notice it until it was too late.
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
OMG, thats the most disgusting thing ever. i suggest he ppl who think this piece of american crap is any kinda of good looking, i suggest u go buy the latest edition of MOTOR magazine the july 2007 edition, has a picture of the falcon without the bras. no way ford is gonna be anything compared to the VE, VE has clearly showed its compition in v8supercars, 14 out of the 17 races won. this is gonna be worse the then AU, its happening all over again just like the commodore VT era, holden smashed ford with their new VT while ford struggled with theyre piece of thing they called the AU, fords been playing catch up ever since…. they just dropped the ball. the new ford falcon looks like a toyota camry or something, a jaguar gone wrong, no1s gonna get used to that thing, i dont even wanna think wat the v8supercar will look like. GO THE BILLION DOLLAR BABY!
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
pubes_msr16
you are a dickhead!!!
the New VE is competeing with a 5 year old car!!! and the road version of the VE is only better the the 5 year old falcon in some departments!!!
The VE sixes are as good as the BA/BF saying that the Holden(chev) V8s are better then fords…at the Moment.The typhoon which is a 4 year old car is only 0.1 sec slower then the New holden GTS… so look at that they spend a Billion to be faster by 0.1…which is nothing!!! lol!!! what a waste!! the new falcon will be awesome!!!
so our 270Kw typhoon is as fast as your new VE GTS, what will the new 300Kw typhoon be like??? or the 320kw GT??? lol!!!!
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
correction for above comment: the Ve sixes are not as good as the Ba/BF sixes!
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
pubes_msr16
you are a dickhead!!!
Second that.
Mate who won 3 out of the last V8 SUPERCARS CHAMPION SHIPS ??
Vote:AHHH that would be Ford !! Marcos Ambros ,Marcos Ambros,and Russell Ingall. Craig would have won last year if CRASH BANDICOOT hadn’t of pushed him off the track .
June 28th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
pubes_msr16,
yes have proven you dont know s**t about cars or even V8 supercars. so here is a quick lesson…..
V8 Supercars…..
ford has won the last 4 championships (yes if you count the one they stole) All holden care about is winning V8 supercars. it is soo important them. they think if they win jokers like you will see it as them offering a good product. I know its true cause you just told us holden wins all the time (which is not true) in V8’s so they are good. both ford and holden both run the same set ups for parity reasons. THE HOLDENS RUN FORD SUSPENSION AND FORD BRAKES AND FORD DIFFS just to name a few. also aerodynamics has nothing to do with it either, they both have to achieve the same aero qualities in the body kits they run.
Cars……….
for 1 the Au was a heap better car than the VT/VX as for as vehicle properties are concearned. and if you want to count sales you can pull up the sales records on the AU falcon ute that will show the falcon ute shat on holden for sales. as for the BA/BF well you are really showcasing your lack of knowledge there. BF is 5 years old and it still beats holdens 1billion$ baby in 90% of areas. If you want me to list the areas just ask. and over that 5 years it has had nowhere near the recalls holden gets with in 6 months of their new one.
i would love you to reply to all the feedback you are getting on your comments too. i know you wont cause all the other ill informed holden fans always spit out stupid one liners like you and then go back into your hole.
YOU ARE THE REASON STEREOTYPES GO ROUND ABOUT HOLDEN FANS
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
everybody uses v6’s excluding bmw porsche and suabaru
Vote:and please dont count ur 4.0 inline as a compartative to bmw. oh, holden is releasing the 385kw 620nm v8 gts so dont rely on the gt and 320kw
June 28th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
I took my boat out fishing the other day, and was waiting to use the ramp. I had to wait while a 4WD towed a Toyota Aurion off the ramp because the front wheel drive could not get traction on the ramp !!!!! Only a 14 ft boat as well !!!!! i would hate to tow a caravan with an Aurion !!!!! Front wheel drive large car with weight on the back = NO FRONT WHEEL Control !!!! I bet the Aurion isnt as economical when as a Falcon when towing a boat or van as it has to be worked really hard to pull the weight…….
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
that ‘youridiots’ person is a fukin nob!!! i dont think that holden is bringing out a 385kw V8, if u read the post above there is a guy making a very valid point and thanks for pointing it out, holden needs ford and ford needs holden. holden isnt going to go ll out and bring out a massive holden engine and neither is ford going to bring out massive.
they are just going to beat each other buy 5 or 10 kw at a time
but ford looks promising, should be good!!!
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
My daughters friend went to a Daewoo …….sorry……Hoden Dealer to inquire about a Kalos……..sorry……..Barina…….he told her it was a Holden !!!!!! Worse still he told her that it was made in Australia and was one of the safest small cars around !!!!!! Product knowledge……….NOT !!!!!!!!!!!
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
cheers mate
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
If you want more cubes……….stroke it !!!!!!GM are you good at that ???? HAHAHA
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Holden is influenced by GM so much its barely an original australian made car, they get there ideas from GM and then scab the rest off other cars like the flacon and the BMW, which by the way holden went way to far witht he flares, they are tto big just looks stupid!
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
i think you’ll find a very large portion of the commodore is australian-exclusive, to the point where holden has been delegated future rear drive architecture for the GM corp. And the appearnce of the car is subjective. This is just mindless rambling from both ford and holden fans, their both fine choices in my opinion, whatever floats your boat.
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
the new holden looks like 2 or 3 european/japanese cars thrown together!! i just hope the ford boys learn from there mistakes
Vote:June 28th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
when will all of the car manafacturers start to use the alternative fuel methods & tecnologies available to them instead of living from the vanity of the average person “keeping up with the jones,s
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 10:33 am
youridiots HSV are only makeing 100-150 of the 7.0L
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 10:37 am
So I see certain people have a low regard for diesel. It appears that it is less polluting than petrol, it’s the same price as petrol, it gives better consumption figures than petrol, it’s cheaper to make than petrol, it gives figures of torque for 2 litre engines that holden claims for its current V6 and based on our work fleet, which use 4X4 diesels its running costs are less. So why would you put a 3 litre turbo diesel in a car like the new Orion which has one of the worlds best 6 speed automatics. I mean with the current turbo Falcon and Territory you have already got the plumbing in place and of course why would you offer a car that could be sold in Europe where diesels are now more popular than petrol. And for all the petrol heads out there next time you watch Le Man have a look at whats winning and blow your minds out with the power and especially torque figures Audi is getting. You know this is the 21st century and the next engine package is going to be the hybrid diesel/electric.
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
The Yanky Ford fans are begging to get our Falcon turbo and V8 over there and I personally would love to see it.
As for “Youridiots” knocking the only REAL Aussie designed and built engine that exists today. My 2003 XT BA’s engine is still quieter, smoother, more powerful and refined than an 07 Omega V6 – You Holden guy’s got short changed from the Billion Dollar Baby.
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
I thought this was a discussion about the new Ford Falcon not a Holden V Ford sh*t slanging match
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Your right of course Peter.
All this teasing from Ford is making us twitchy.
It is really hard to judge how it will look but I hope the XR lights will be unique to the model as they have done in the past.
Also the Turbo needs to look more aggressive and individual than the stock XR6.
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
The thing that cracks me up about the Holden fanatics out there, is that they all love “Holden’s Invention” the wheel arches. I was under the impression that the Ford Focus had them well before the Commodore?
Vote:I personally don’t like them.
Oh and for which ever person it was that said about Holden bringing out a GTS with 385kw or whatever it was (exaggeration). If they did bring that car out, Ford will still have it beaten. They’ll just take a leaf out of Holden’s book and import an engine or a whole car for that matter out of the USA. Thats right, Ford USA have just recently released the Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. 375kw of raw power, powered by a Supercharger. GM will be set back for a couple of years with the GT500 and the F6 Typhoon. And if I’m correct that now puts Ford with the Fastest running 6cyl and 8cyl engines on the planet.
June 29th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
why do i bother, your all a bunch of tossers who probably drive grey imports dressed up or run down wrxs painted lime green with louder pop off valves than exhausts and who (fact) never ever would be able to afford new commodores or falcons when they are released. luckily for u they both have atrocious resale value so u might just get lucky. mind u, u all sound as though u dropped out of school at 15. dole or apprenticeships. please choose
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
QUOTE = Oh and for which ever person it was that said about Holden bringing out a GTS with 385kw or whatever it was (exaggeration). If they did bring that car out, Ford will still have it beaten. They’ll just take a leaf out of Holden’s book and import an engine or a whole car for that matter out of the USA. Thats right, Ford USA have just recently released the Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. 375kw of raw power, powered by a Supercharger. GM will be set back for a couple of years with the GT500 and the F6 Typhoon. And if I’m correct that now puts Ford with the Fastest running 6cyl and 8cyl engines on the planet.
How about we just concede they both make shitty V8s. Lexus… 300kw out of a 5L V8.
Vote:June 29th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
john mentiond befor if any one knows if the ford orion will be direct ingection
thats pritty interesting does anyone know if it will be
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Muz,
you are right on alternate fuels. i think the first manufacturer to produce a vehicle on something other than unleaded, will leave the other manufacturers back peddling. and i dont mean hybrids, i mean something with some actual power.
hopefully it will be ford leading the way with its new gas line up. they are renaming it (G6E) which suggests they have put some time into it and are going to market it aswell.
hopefully they produce a turbo gas motor. it would be a good investment for them. it would more than likely produce more power than the current turbo motor too.
ford need to do something like that to make people really stand up and notice
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Andrew M, a friend of mine told me that LPG works extremely well in high compression motors. It appears that in Europe they are currently playing around with turbo diesel engines with LPG injection with fantastic power and torque figures.
Vote:As for some of the rubbish I have read regarding power and torque figures of the 7 litre Holden etc. Get real, the name of the game is power to weight and how you put it to the ground. And just in case some of you don’t get it, unless you have a bottomless pit of money, the next figure is litres per 100km.
June 30th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Paul stop talking about toyotas, my step dad has two lexus’s a LX470 and an ES300, and might i tell you the 4.7L V8 was gutless and don’t even get me started on the ES 3L!!! the 470 had to have a whole new exhaust system put on because the old one was so shit there was almost no gas coming out then in one big blow it looked like the injecters were fucked. the Exhaust manifold was so shit, looked like nice 2 3\4 inch pipe but on the inside was no more than 1 inch.
And i laugh because the new toyota landcruiser cost $40,000 cheaper and only came ut 2 years later, lexus just brings out the toyota models earlier and charges $40,000 extra with a few more bits of fruit on it.
The ES300 was $80,000, it has got a better sound system and electric seats which is about it other wise it is a rebadged camry which is worth about 40 grand, so leexus can suck my nob, i’d buy a falcon anyday over a lexus!
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Are you for real Boondy? The LX470 isnt a performance car, its a friggin 4×4 mate which weighs 2 and a half tonnes… lets see Lexus’ performance credentials in regards to V8s – 5L V8, 300kw, 440Nm, lighter then your heavier V8s, high revving, list goes on. Obviously its way more expensive but please spare me your Lexus/Toyota (in particular of their V8s) bashing based on a people movers performance because its quite ridiculous.
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
QUOTE = Ford have had projector headlamps since 1993! Just look at the XR6 or XR8 in the ED, EF, EL, AU 1-3 series! Last time I checked, they have projector head lamps… And who really cares about LED Tail lights! Whoa! Don’t wanna miss out on them!
And another thing, Toyota have ever only made one good model car, and that would be the Supra.
Do you even know what projectors are? Obviously not, no Ford has had them to my knowledge, certainly not since 1993 LOL!
As for LEDs, well I think the higher spec Falcons will have them, it would be wise on Fords part… but you cant say who cares, your forking out good money for these vehciles not for them to do some cost cutting on you. Also its fact tha LEDs improve the reaction time of people behind you, so its also good for safety.
And lastly your seeing ‘good’ in terms of performance, Id say the Camrys since the 80s (which features DOHCs… took Ford I think around 8 years later to get OHCs going and Holden till the turn of this century!) and have been known to last trouble free in excess of 300,000kms are a good car. Same with Corollas.
Anyway I dont mean to convert this into a Toyota v Ford discussion!
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Paul
Vote:What! My parents own a ‘94 XR6 ED. Don’t try to tell people that they don’t have projectors! They do! Ford have been making them since the XR series came into effect. So that clearly says that you are the one that doesn’t know what projectors are.
Tell me, what V8’s have Toyota produced that aren’t in a 4WD? Toyota should just stick with going against Nissan, at least then Toyota might actually win something… But then again, with the 350Z, even Nissan is too good for Toyota.
As for saying the bullcrap about Lexus with their “amazing” V8 ability, they aren’t all that good…
Lexus are just the same as Audi, BMW and Mercedes. If you own one, it’s just another way to say: “Hey look at me! I’m rich!” They have no power compared to Ford or Holden. Oh and maybe you should check out this site http://www.fordvehicles.com/mustang click on models then click on the Shelby GT500 model and it will say it has 500hp (373kw) of power with a supercharger and intercooled.
That is what real power is all about. Not any crappy front wheel drive Toyota.
June 30th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Can’t wait till March. Spoke to my Ford dealer and he told me that’s when the new one is being released.
Going to order my new XR8 or FPV (haven’t decided yet) as soon as it comes out.
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
i want to see more pics
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Paul,
i join the list of people that dont get hung up on LED’s. as im sure i said earlier for my money the great reflector design tail lights already in the falcon and territory have just as good a clarity as led’s, and with out looking closely you would say that they are.
and guys could someone enlighten me on what projector headlights are cause now im getting a bit thrown off
Vote:June 30th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Hi,
Vote:If Ford refuses to option a diesel across the range, then it will be curtains much to all our regret.
I know they read these posts, so FORD place your trust in your loyal fan base and we will back you as long as you are innovative, and LISTEN to your CUSTOMERS because at the moment, who does not read the market correctly will pay the ultimate price.
Thanks
June 30th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Ford can i have a boss v8 territory for christmas.
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:52 am
sorry but i still dont get the diesel thing. whats with it? i dont see recognisable savings nor big environmental +’s
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 6:15 pm
nissan water pumps are a fucking menace to society and all rb 30’s can go to hell
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Bring On The VE GTR 427 HSV…..
Vote:385Kw
Bye Bye Ford…
July 1st, 2007 at 7:54 pm
have you fords lovers forgotten that commodore has been no1 selling car for last 10 years and will again this year. it is ford playing catch up with holden and wont catch up with this car
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Good pics
Vote:ill wait to see it better before
i make judgeents, but um “ford
crap” all holden did with the ve is
basically build a billion dollar look
a like of all the models, eg.
the tail lights mitisbushi 380,
the head lights ba-bf falcon,
and the flared guards well, while
the ve is a pretty good looking car and i
like the looks (i think its probably helps because it looks like a ba)i don’t think that the final product was that good after all, considring the price they spent on it.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:25 pm
QUOTE = What! My parents own a ‘94 XR6 ED. Don’t try to tell people that they don’t have projectors! They do! Ford have been making them since the XR series came into effect. So that clearly says that you are the one that doesn’t know what projectors are.
No I know what projectors are, Im quite suprised to discover that yes Falcons back then actually had them (albeit along with a dog ugly headlight design).
QUOTE = Lexus are just the same as Audi, BMW and Mercedes. If you own one, it’s just another way to say: “Hey look at me! I’m rich!” They have no power compared to Ford or Holden. Oh and maybe you should check out this site http://www.fordvehicles.com/mustang click on models then click on the Shelby GT500 model and it will say it has 500hp (373kw) of power with a supercharger and intercooled.
That is what real power is all about. Not any crappy front wheel drive Toyota.
Firstly please have a look what you just read, the likes of BMW, Mercedes and Audi have nothing on Ford and Holden? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease you have to be kidding. As for your example, the Lexus V8 produces 300kw and 450Nm from a NATURALLY ASPIRATED 5L V8 (so no supercharger like your example and 400Ml less dissplacement).
QUOTE = i join the list of people that dont get hung up on LED’s. as im sure i said earlier for my money the great reflector design tail lights already in the falcon and territory have just as good a clarity as led’s, and with out looking closely you would say that they are.
Each unto their own… all I know is that if I had the option of paying $35k for a car with LEDs or $35k with a car without them… Id choose the car with LEDs. Imo its these finer details that the base model at least Falcon and even Holden lose out on.
QUOTE = and guys could someone enlighten me on what projector headlights are cause now im getting a bit thrown off
Its hard to describe really… just look at a pic of the Aurion for eg and you see a round object in the headlight assembly, its a projector, focuses the light abit better.
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 10:34 pm
youse are all fuckwits and you can go to hell
Drive a fucking ford or fucking walk
ve’s are a peice of shit and jap crap can go fuck themselfs if its jap or its front wheel drive it can burn in hell GET A DIFF or get a life
buy a rear wheel drive or walk on hot coles
that is falcon: the only australian made vehicle on the market so fuck you and have a nice day
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 10:48 pm
hey ford crap you do know the ve commodore is the biggest fuck up in general motors history
it is mostly made from korean parts so you can call it a daewoo
sorry the koreans allready call it a daewoo
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 10:52 pm
home brand is one australias top sellers
Vote:does it mean it is quality or cheap shit that you use and thow away HOLDEN IS A THOW AWAY PIECE OF SHIT AND ALWAYS WILL BE so when you say its a top selller think about the quality and who can afford it
July 2nd, 2007 at 11:32 am
Ok then Paul. An FPV Boss V8 Produces 290kw power and 530Nm Torque. There is no Supercharger and no Turbocharger in sight. The same goes for HSV’s LS series engines, as much as I’m gonna hate myself for this; 309kw power and 550Nm Torque. And once again no Supercharger or Turbocharger. I understand that Superchargers give more power to a car, but i can not imagine that it would give anymore then say 80kw of power to an engine. The engine would have to be immensely powerful already to have a surge of 373kw.
And the really funny thing about HSV’s “ever-so-powerful engine” is that it is only just slightly more powerful than Fords 4-5 y/o Aussie built engine, which is also 0.6L smaller.
Vote:Holden might be the number 1 seller in the country, but I could almost guarantee everyone that they aren’t going to well overseas.
Speaking of overseas, I heard that Ford Australia was going international next year. And they were releasing the BF model Falcon in the USA. Just a rumor though.
July 2nd, 2007 at 11:48 am
A reminder TOP GEAR returns tonight . New Series !!
7.30 tonight SBS .
Vote:July 2nd, 2007 at 11:49 am
Ford America is buliding a new family of petrol fueled twin-turbo engines with four-cylinder, V6 and V8 powerplants. Known as “twin-force”, the technology will debut in the upcoming Lincoln MKS flagship sedan due in 2008 and will eventually filter across most of Ford’s lineup.Who knows if the new falcon will get the these new motors.In addition to the turbos, Ford will also be adding direct injection tech, which will increase output and improve fuel-economy further.Ford will also be introducing V8 engines with cylinder deactivation, similar to GM’s displacement.To read the whole story go to http://www.motorauthority.com/.....l-engines/
Vote:July 2nd, 2007 at 3:28 pm
‘Cman’ do you know what your talking about…
You suggest FWD’s dont have a diff : WRONG (You obviously have little knowledge about cars)
You say that the Falcon is the only Australian made Car : WRONG (380, Aurion, VE…)
QUOTE = Ok then Paul. An FPV Boss V8 Produces 290kw power and 530Nm Torque. There is no Supercharger and no Turbocharger in sight. The same goes for HSV’s LS series engines, as much as I’m gonna hate myself for this; 309kw power and 550Nm Torque. And once again no Supercharger or Turbocharger.
The Boss V8 produces 10kw less with more dissplacement… the HSV engine produces 9kw more with a whole litres more dissplacement. Furthermore, the HSV engines at least would have to be one of the most unreliable V8s in the world. I think we also have to consider durability here, I could get 300kw out of a Camry if I wanted to… but it would last 1 week. The Lexus with its refinement will produce plenty of power much more smoothly then these local brands (the HSVs V8 makes the car shake at idle as the engine tries to rip itself off its mounts!) and will do so for many trouble free years!
Vote:July 2nd, 2007 at 3:42 pm
paul the VE is assembled here, but more than half of it is bult overseas.
even the glass comes from china!!!
Vote:July 2nd, 2007 at 7:05 pm
^
Lol yeah I know alot of parts for all of them aernt exactly Australian, but its still made in Australia… with made for me meaning assembled. This is open to interpretation of course. And I doubt the Falcon is 100% made of Australian componentry, so this leads me to believe ‘Cman’ uses the same interpretation of ‘made’ as I mentioned.
Vote:July 2nd, 2007 at 7:14 pm
It’s not anymore actually.
Vote:The Falcon since the the BF range has been importing its seats from the USA… There is probably more, but i don’t think anyone cares, considering the engine of the Falcon is made and assembled here in Australia. It is probably the same story with the Aurion as well. So much for what I can about the Commodore though… LS engine… pfft!
July 2nd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Arthur,
weel dont get too far ahead of yourself with your wish list on a 427 385kw. i think holden has to make a V8 first before you can expect a 427.
Ford crap,
Vote:yeah you are just another one of those simple people that holden blinds into thinking that they are good. sales doesnt mean they are a good car. one main reason holden sells more numbers is because they have a high turnover of models, meaning holden makes you feel inferior sooner cause your car is out of date so quickly, and people like you will get the ego thing going and have to run out and have the new one with different headlights. the 5 year old falcon is 90% better than holdens brand new 1 billion$ investment so ford would have to sell their new car without seats and bumpers for holden to be a better car (seriously).
July 3rd, 2007 at 8:46 am
Andrew M its unfair to accuse Holden of that. All of them do it some just do it better. Post WW2 the vast majority of manufacturers have done the same thing. It’s simply good marketing and a by-product of consumerism. At least Holden have mastered the art of creating an organic flow between models. This is one reason they are destroying ford in terms of sales and popularity.
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 9:59 am
I think Holdens success of the Commodore has alot to do with blind loyalty. You just have to look at their sales, which are mostly to fleets, now those people getting these vehicles would have a choice between the Commodore, Falcon and even sometimes the Aurion… why on earth would you then go for the crappy Omega!? Its the only explanation, people have loyalty and that over-shadows the crappiness of the car they are getting.
I also think the Commodores days are slowly coming to an end, the Aurion is eating away at sales they cant afford to lose given the lack of success of their other brands such as their Daewoo line up and the new Falcon Im thinking will blow them out of the water (the current model is still selling without many airbags and DSC… so expect a surge in sales when all these features become available at a competitive price!)
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 12:49 pm
ford have all the paper filled out to use the ford us gt engine. that produces 410kw. if hsv would use the corvette engine fpv would use the amercian gt engine blow hsv out of the water, but i would like to see that because ford australia would go for the fastest four door car title AGAIN. i would love to see that on top gear
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Bob, I’m with you mate, the USA Ford GT quad cam 410kw is the way to go & heaps better than anything Holden have. Holdens R8 6 Litre pushrod jilopy is antiquated. I would just like to see the new fORD XR8 with more flared gaurds and compacted up a little in length.
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm
This is funny….
My older brother (the sad sap) is an avid Holden Fag… I mean man, we were having the ‘great engine debate’ the other day, and He tried telling me that the new V6 is Australian made….. what a fool.
It seem that Holden fans believe that if their company changes the literage from 3.8 to 3.6 and changes the name from ‘EcoTec’ to ‘AlloyTec’, that constitutes a completely new engine…. what a sorry but of people these are…. I mean how far can one bury their head in the sand?
Holden can’t design and can’t build, although they can sell, which further displays how sad this country is.
If I was stupid enough to be waving the red flag, I’d be very very concerned about the next 100% AUSTRALIAN Falcon.
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 5:51 pm
^
Yeah I think alot of misinformed people think the VE Commodore has a new engine as well as a result of Holdens advertising making it look like it was all new… yet the most crucial component, the engine was from the previous model.
To Bob and Rod, guys dream on… there is no way they will be bringing out engines like that for FPV or HSV, that would completely destroy the differentiation between your $60k FPV and $1?? Ford GT, not to mention these gas guzzling V8s days are slowly coming to an end, more reason why such a risk in bringing out more powerful engines wouldnt be worth it.
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Martin, what are you saying it is unfair to accuse holden of in relation to all manufacturers doing aswell? sorry didnt get that bit.
was there something wrong with saying holden doesnt make a V8 or the part where i said they had a high turnover of models in comparison??????
Bob,
out of interest what size is the V8 you are talking about is it the supercharged one?
Paul, i dont think V8 days are coming to an end. sales are actually up there. but what i would love to see is ford refine and boost, well if they have to supercharge their own boss motor that would be better than jumping in the same boat as holden and import a motor. they should build some recognition with their own aussie V8 and people will start to notice and become loyal to it (thats if they do a good job of it)
mikey and paul,
Vote:yes holden can sell you cant deny that, they could sell ice to eskimos
July 3rd, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Im a ford fan but gyse in case you dont know holden’s aloytech and ford’s bara engines arnt made in australia there made in america. Sory to say it but you holden fans stop saying its biult in australia when its not. its a rebaged gm motor if you dont believe me do some reaserch on it befor you say its made in australia.
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 8:37 pm
^
Well maybe you should look further into Ford’s Barra engine. It is made here in Australia, as is the Boss 260 and 290 and the F6 Turbo engine as well. All engines that have something to do with the Fairlane, Fairmont and the Falcon are made here in Aust.
Vote:Ford USA is yet to play a part with the creations of Ford Australia.
So much for what can be said for Holden though.
July 3rd, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Woah…210+++ comments WTF!!! This Milly guy, complete tosser, both FOrd and Holden make their 6 cylinder engines locally, and import their V8’s from what I know. Clealr has know I dear what it (milly) is on about.
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 10:13 pm
I get the vibe that you people think that the Ford V8 is locally made, I am unaware whther that is true, and could not care less. The bottom line is, the Ford V8 is smaller (in displacement), can produce more power (kw and torque, more economical, and is also a hell of a lot moderner and advanced. Holden use an ancient OHV/Pushrod POS! FOrd use a tipically advanced and smaller QUAD CAM well engineered engine, with a much better transmission and will have an even better chassis, gearbox, and more power on the ORION you fools!
Vote:July 4th, 2007 at 8:48 am
All of you Holden and Ford nuts seem to throw Kw and Nm numbers around as if they are the “bees-knees”. For crying out loud, it’s power to weight that counts. Holden and Ford have the same problem, they are heavy cars and need high output engines. Ford has tried to off set it by using a 6 speed close ratio auto gearbox.
Vote:If Ford can reduce the weight of the new Orion by some 200 kilos, what out Holden. And just imagine if Holden reduced the size of it 3.6 V6 to 3 litres and used the technology that Audi used in its new Golf with a 1.4 litre Supercharged/Turbo engine.
When I read some of these articles I’m trying to figure out if they are fare “dinkum” or “baiting”. It’s as if mine is bigger then yours and all that rubbish.
I believe from what I have seen that the new Ford Orion will be very different from the VE Commodore which is good for the Australian market and hopefully for the world market. Australia makes some of the best cars in the world; whether Ford or Holden.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Just to answer for Damo, the Ford V8’s are very much made here in Australia.
Vote:Just thought I’d clarify that!
July 4th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Great Pics!
Vote:July 4th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
andrew
Vote:yes it is supercharged. its just the ford aust engine with a huge supercharger on it.
July 4th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
i thought that the 5.4L was assembled here but the parts are from us. because the 5.4L is an amercian engine
Vote:July 4th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
No unique to Australia. Parts sourced from around the world. USA doen’t make much anymore.
The Rods come from Germany I think.
Here is something to read.
Ford buffs know that this name was first used on a special engine fitted to the 1969 Mustang – the Boss 302. This revered engine shares many uncanny similarities with its modern-day heir. The Boss 290 delivers 290 kilowatts at 5,500 rpm, the same iconic power figure in kilowatts the original Boss 302 had in horsepower along with the first XW Falcon GT 351 on its 1969 release. But the 520 Newton metre torque figure launches the Boss 290 into a class all its own.
To fit the Boss 290 without compromising ground clearance or stifling airflow, a special power bulge bonnet was factory-designed and tooled, creating an unmistakable level of authority on the street.
The Boss 290 Block
The block is cast-iron which makes it exceptionally rigid. It is three times stronger than aluminium for extra durability and refinement under high horsepower and torque loads. Cast-iron is more stable over a wider range of temperatures and there is less movement at critical sealing points for superior resistance to oil and coolant leaks. Ultimately, it’s what is used for V8 Supercar engines.
The engine has an under-square bore and stroke ratio that delivers the flexibility, fast response and strong pulling power from low engine speeds expected from a high-performance V8. A forged steel crankshaft maintains strength and refinement under high power and torque loads. Each crankshaft undergoes a special balancing process at Ford Performance Vehicles prior to assembly to match the special Boss 290 piston and conrod combination for exceptional refinement and reduced stress on components at all engine speeds.
Locally-sourced high-performance tri-metal main and big-end bearings are specified for extra durability under higher engine speeds and peak power and torque loads. Each main bearing cap is precisely located by two cross-bolts, two vertical bolts and two vertical locating dowels for superior location over six bolts. That means superior durability and refinement under high performance loads.
Each conrod is re-engineered to match the stronger pistons and floating gudgeons. The conrod big-ends are separated by a controlled cracking process before main bearing insertion. When reconnected, this creates a multi-ridged join unique to each conrod that is exceptionally strong and virtually invisible.
Locally-supplied high-performance pistons with domed tops lift the compression ratio to 10.5:1 on 96 RON PULP for improved engine response, efficiency and fuel economy under light throttle loads.
The Boss 290 Heads
Twin overhead camshafts per bank with four valves per cylinder to produce a deep-breathing, high-performance engine for exciting and consistent power and torque delivery right up to the red line. The heads are cast in aluminium alloy to minimise weight and to reach the optimum operating temperature faster. They feature an improved Cobra R design with a straighter, better-breathing inlet port.
The camshafts are hollow for reduced weight, less inertia – and faster response. Sealed, high-quality timing chains are lubricated by the engine’s oil supply for long life. This means a major reduction in maintenance costs compared to timing belt replacement and eliminates the potential of engine damage through a missed belt change. For critical engine joins, special high-tensile bolts are stretched under torque for maximum strength and extra resistance to loosening.
The Boss 290 Intake
The inlet manifold is manufactured in Australia with tuned length trumpets to match the straighter inlet port of the latest head design for strong torque at lower engine speeds, accessible power at everyday speeds and deep breathing at high engine speeds.
A 75 mm throttle body with drive-by-wire linkage eliminates the noise and vibration path that a mechanical linkage generates as it enters the cabin. The Boss cast-alloy plenum cover is made in Australia to meet the engine’s specific deep breathing requirements without compromise. The Boss bonnet pressing was tooled to accommodate this design. The Boss shares the dual ram air-intake system.
The Boss 290 Build Process
The Boss 290 engine is meticulously assembled by hand at Ford Performance Vehicles on the only V8 production line in Australia, a $1.5 million investment that has already paid dividends.
By building our own engines, rather than importing a fully-assembled engine developed overseas, Ford Performance Vehicles retains ultimate control over the development of engines to answer the unique needs of Australian performance car enthusiasts.
To deliver the solid muscle at low engine speeds that Aussies expect in a high-performance V8 while maintaining the free-revving, deep-breathing feel of a thoroughbred sports engine, Ford Performance Vehicles has developed a unique engine that has no equivalent in all the Ford world.
On this high-tech carousel, manned by technicians who previously honed their skills hand-building the previous Windsor V8s, each Boss 290 engine is carefully assembled from bare blocks and heads.
A pristine environment, our assembly line has more in common with a surgery than a factory. Indeed, to see our technicians huddled over an engine is truly reminiscent of an operating theatre. The latest computer-controlled dual-nut runners are used for the critical fastening and torquing of the heads, conrods and main-bearing caps. Far more sensitive than manual tightening, they are programmed to react instantly to faults in materials and parts, sending an instant alert to their operator.
As a result, the line has enabled Ford performance Vehicles to adopt the latest world-class practices for our industry; not only in quality control but occupational health and safety too.
The end result is that the Boss 290 is one of the most powerful yet cost-effective V8 engines built anywhere in the world.
Vote:July 4th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
hey did you guys see this about the possible re release of the cobra name plate to coincide with bathurst?
http://carsguide.news.com.au/s.....m=CG_email
Vote:July 4th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Bob,
if you say the 410kw is the ford aust engine then why do you say its from the US GT? they dont export the Aust V8 yet.
to every one… the ford V8 IS MADE IN AUSTRALIA and it is the only V8 that is. just because it has the same displacement as a V8 they have in the US doesnt mean it is the same.
Vote:they designed the V8 here.
the reason it is an odd size is because the boss motor is made of like a 351 block and a 302 head to make it lighter.
i suppose thats the short of what missile was trying to put forward aswell
July 4th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
People should know that the for GT sold for more than $250k.
And puting the GT engine will hike up the price alot.
Vote:Who would buy a falcon for $250k. Oh and lets not forget the 4MPG!
July 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
check this out.The Barra engines are a family of I6 and V8s assembled by Ford Australia since 2002. The V8s are built in the USA by the Ford Motor Company and are shipped un-assembled to Australia, for assembly at the FPV Factory
more info here
Vote:http://www.answers.com/topic/ford-barra-engine
July 4th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
^
Lol yeah the point I made previously, its not going to happen… people pay big bucks for all that power (and the chasis etc) they are not going to put it in a $60k FPV and they certainly wont even bother putting it in a $100k FPV (because it wont sell).
And Andrew.M, Im talking long term… sure they are up now because they are offering more features, more power and cheaper prices (namely the SS). But they will be going down as soon as people realise that yet they offer value for money in short term but long term put a massive hole in their wallet for fuel… in a recent test the SS got 11.4L on the highway!!! More then the locals 6s, city driving got 17L. Now in an age where people are starting to reconsider 6s youd think the V8s are going to start to decline.
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 12:40 am
I think the local manufacturers should start implementing the use of cylinder shutdown systems, I think I once read something about Holden “CONSIDERING” the use of it, but that usually means maybe in the next decade! LOL, but I think it would be seriously good to see Mitsu or Toyota, or even Ford to offer it on the V6’s, that would definetly drive a few sales IMO.
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 9:01 am
Hey Andrew thanks for that re- Cobra. However ,I was told its going to be 50 only White & Blue stripped GTs ,released for Bathurst this years to celebrate 30 years after the 1 + 2 win for the Coupes and they shall have 220 Kws.
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 10:00 am
I got in contact with a friend of mine yesterday who drive a VW Passat turbo diesel. It’s his company car. City Highway driving he is averaging 5.1 litres per 100km. I had a drive in it and it really goes, especially when you over take. I read recently that Ford will not, I stress, will not be added diesels to the new Orion. A pity, I thought it might have helped in its competion within the Australian and European market. I have just read the latest peice on the new Mondeo and guess what, the turbu diesel is a much better car that the turbo 5 cylinder petrol with 165kw.
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
andrew
Vote:what i meant was they export it to us(aust) unassembled like dave said its on the fpv site there was a video of them making it not sure if its still there.
July 5th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Yep the USA do send SOME components to Australia, some components are ex Australia ,Germany ,ect.The Cams are from CROW CAMS here in Australia ,as the manifold.
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
i just want to say that i heard the f6 is gonna have 300 kw and the xr6 tubo is gonna have 270 and the xr8 is gonna have 290 or 300 kw and theres ment to be a v10 geting produced
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
thats the biggest load of crap i have herd all day who told u that.
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
i dont know the name of the guy who told me that but i think he was a black rapper (50cent)
Vote:July 5th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
now seriously,
Paul i still dont think V8’s will die off and certainly not soon. people who buy V8’s dont buy them with fuel savings in mind. they buy them for the unmistakable sound and power. people buy V8’s cause they are a V8.
Missile,
did you make a typo when you said the cobra will be 220kw? i think so. i heard it to be 320kw
Tony M or someone…
could you please explain the diesel thing to me. i dont get it. yeah better fuel economy and thats about it. isnt that stuff worse on the environment too? so why would they invest money in developing something that runs on a fuel that will eventually become obsolete.
For my money its gas (LPG) all the way at the moment. these systems at the moment give little if any power difference, will halve your fuel bill and is a shite load better for the environment. and above all LPG has more potential than even unleaded.
Dave,
Vote:I dont think that the statement you pulled up on the boss motor is very correct. the motor does not come to Aust as the article suggests (in the form of a “kit” like a model, to say). sure they may source a couple of parts from US but a lot of parts do come from right here. also i believed it was designed here too, correct me if I am wrong though.
July 5th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
yep, sorry was 320 . Heard the same ,I think more collectable than the last 40 th edition .They sold fast and now there are 198 of 200 left of those .
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
holden is so much better that cobra engine it will never reach 320kw u dumbshits ass rapping mother fuckers
Vote:hsv worlds fastest ute hahahahah see holdens new engine 385kw hahahah u suck balls
July 6th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
to bad ford arent as good on v8 supercars u suck balls winning 1,2,3
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
What A load of Junk a pig with lip stick
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
but look closly at the lights in this pic they look light they are positioned there
fhttp://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/orion_caradvice_25_820.jpg
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
holden rules,
Vote:so what are you saying ford are better at making cars than competing in V8 supercars? (when compared to holden)
July 6th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
QUOTE = Paul i still dont think V8’s will die off and certainly not soon. people who buy V8’s dont buy them with fuel savings in mind. they buy them for the unmistakable sound and power. people buy V8’s cause they are a V8.
Yeah Im aware of that argument, but fuel prices are going to hit a point where its doing to deter alot of people because having a petrol guzzling V8 is going to put them into the gutter! Im sure some already are abit put off by it.
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Paul, well for starters it hasnt detered people yet as i told you before that sales were actually up. and i guess we will have to let time show where they are at in say 5yrs. bring on an LPG V8. that would be interesting. (gee i must be starting to sound like an LPG ambassador now he he)
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Lol yes LPG is the solution to all the worlds problems! But as I said, sales are up as a result of various factors which manufacterers have exploited to boost sales (such as offering more features). And sales are up all over the board in every sector! But yes time will tell!
Vote:July 6th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Andrew M, the problem with our fuel, both petrol and diesel is the level of sulphur in it. In Europe that level has been reduced dramatically, unfortunately not yet in Australia (our governments are too busy collecting taxes to notice the rubbish going into the air). But I do believe that diesel is cleaner than petrol.
Vote:The trouble with the gas argument is that the car uses more gas than either petrol of diesel so on the bases of fuel efficience, it’s not that economical. But I believe, if we were to use a high compression motor like a diesel it is more efficient. Note what I said before, governments collect taxes on the bases consumption; the more you use the more they collect.
July 7th, 2007 at 12:38 am
hey paul look under the bonnet of the 380 and the aurion what does it say ill tell you MADE IN JAPAN
so they are not an australian made car are they
Vote:July 7th, 2007 at 12:41 am
and paul fwds dont have a “diff” they have a transaxle and cv’s
Vote:July 7th, 2007 at 5:31 am
Andrew M I was talking about turnover.
I don’t understand all this talk about how ford should do all these remarkable things to blow Holden away. This isn’t the movies and the falcon isn’t realistically likely to come from the brink of obliteration to destroy the competition. As the falcon gasps for air submerged in an increasingly competitive market Holden continues to perform on the world stage.
As for all this $#!T about Ausie engineering, Holden have done more for Australian design and engineering in recent years than Ford Australia could even dream of.
As a Holden fan this is in some ways blasphemes but I hope that the falcon does become competitive again. Holden vs Toyota just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Vote:July 7th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Martin and other die hard Holden “supporters”.
Vote:Get real, do you really think Holden is so strong that it can’t take a dive in the sales race. When the Commodore was first introduced in the late 70’s the motor journos were say how it was the car of the future, it was the bees-knees in design etc etc. Trouble was it had an engine that drank petrol and people liked big cars. Ford brings out the XD Falcon, it’s a big car and it used less petrol. End result was Holden lost its place at the top of the tree.
Who buys big cars, try leasing firm. Where do you buy big cars cheap, try the auctions where a Falson or Commodore of 2 years with 40,000km sells for $20-25,000. Nearly a 30 to 40% drop in value (go to Fowles) if you doubt. Who buys fuel efficient cars, Mr and Mrs average, not petrol heads who seem to Kilowatts is a measure of their prowes. And just in case you think I’m wrong, you will note that Corollas, Mazdas, Astras, Focus etc are selling for 5% to 10% under their new car value.
It’s time to stop smoking the tea leaves and wake up to yourself. Both Holden and Ford are on a knife edge (read on what is happening in America regarding GM and Ford and the Billions of dollars they are losing) and the cars they build and design need to meet a very small market base.
As for the “drop kick” who tries to compare Holden and Fords in the V8 supercar series, hey mate, this is a Silhouette class of racing, the only difference the Falcon and the Commodore have is body and motor everything else is generally the same. Get real.
July 7th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Tony M,
you can have economy and economics. the economics for diesel still dont stack up though. gas would (as a rule) cut your fuel bill in half. you will find that the milage out of a gas car would be the same as a diesel, that is because the gas tank is bigger (to the tune of about 20L). where gas makes up for it is the much lower price. and if gas were to be developed further (such as direct injection etc) im sure that consumption would come down too.
and for taxes…. yes i realise it is a fixed excise “based on consumption” but at the moment gas has no taxes applied to it (apart from gst of course). and in 7-8 years when it does feel the full effect of tax that excise will still only be half of that, that is applied to diesel and unleaded meaning that gas consumption could be double that of say unleaded and you would be still only paying the same amount tax.
as for pollution what you say about the sulphur levels in europe being lower makes sence, since i know they have much tougher emissions standards than us, and yes it is probably only a matter of time before we follow, but for now and even when sulphur levels are reduced gas will still be healthier for the environment.
Vote:what i was originally saying is that i dont know why ford would want to spend money on developing a diesel motor for their falcon when they have for e.g. the gas setup working for them at the moment (to keep the greens happy) and they are developing the hydrogen motor as maybe a long term solution. and yes i think eventually diesel motor will phase out once suitable replacements are here. therefore any money spent on development of diesel wouldnt have enough time to pay itself off
July 7th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Martin,
im still not getting it…… how were you talking about turnover. this is your QUOTE………………from Andrew M
“sales doesnt mean they are a good car. one main reason holden sells more numbers is because they have a high turnover of models,”
Quote…….. responce from Martin
Martin said
July 3 2007 @ 8:46 am
“Andrew M its unfair to accuse Holden of that. All of them do it some just do it better. Post WW2 the vast majority of manufacturers have done the same thing. It’s simply good marketing and a by-product of consumerism. At least Holden have mastered the art of creating an organic flow between models. This is one reason they are destroying ford in terms of sales and popularity.”
and now in responce to your latest comments….
what are you saying the falcon isnt competitive? lets not forget that when ford released the Ba falcon for a while ford were beating holden in a lot of monthly sales reports it the gong at the end of the year that people remember though i suppose. anyway that aside sales IS NOT A DIRECT REPRESENTATION OF A GOOD /COMPETITIVE CAR. the current falcon has it over the commodore in 90% of areas right now. yes im talking about the 5year old falcon! and dont forget the falcon was still winning the awards 4yrs after its release….not a competitive car??? go figure.
and what exactlly have holden done over the years for aussie engineering????? anyone??????
Vote:well they have imported all their motors over the last few years so rule that one out.. and the chassis too so there goes that idea. and the mcpherson strut suspension… yeah thats great engineering there (not)
July 7th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Paul you have just proven my point that people who buy V8’s dont buy them with economy in mind, by saying they are reeled in by the features. what you are saying is V8’s are good value and there is more benefits in buying a V8 to worry about consumption
Vote:July 7th, 2007 at 9:56 am
can any one get the link that daniel posted to work?
Vote:July 7th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Andrew M
Vote:If we were to assume that diesel engines will have a short life as an alternative to petrol engines, then yes why would you develop a diesel in Australia. But we currently have a 2.7 litre twin turbo diesel that is cuppiled to the 6 speed auto we use in Australia in the Ford parts bin, so why wouldn’t you put that combination as an option in the new Orion. As I said recently, I don’t believe Ford will put a diesel in the new Orion. If they ever add a diesel it will be via a directive from the States, who control the purse strings.
July 8th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Andrew M
When I said turnover I mean between models. I know that’s not the correct use of the term but you used it in that context when you said “because they have a high turnover of models, meaning Holden makes you feel inferior sooner cause your car is out of date so quickly”.
Engineering achievements include the co-development of the Monaro and the creation of GM’s RWD platform. It’s a good thing for Ausie engineers and designers to get global recognition. Ford Australia doesn’t get any more international than NZ and Tasmania ;o)
And I know it wasn’t directed at me but I thought I’d just add for the record that I don’t regard the V8 supercars as representative of the commodore/falcon quality or engineering standards. It’s just a bit of fun.
Vote:July 8th, 2007 at 1:08 am
+ The Efigy has won the latest North American Concept of the year award
Vote:July 8th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
what have they done to further australian automotive nothing. they use everything from other people creating a platform and a 2 cars thats nothing. they have made no car parts to further the industry. fords front suspension in the territory has was a benefit to the industry
Vote:July 8th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Martin,
i still havent heard any of these marvellous engineering achievements for the auusie automotive industry. well yes they just built a chassis WELL DONE HOLDEN YOUR FIRST ONE. and as far as your wording goes as…. “over the years” i suppose we can rule out the VE as that has only just landed and what you said indicates your impression of holdens committment to engineering was from their previous models so can you name some great achievements they have had apart from their new chassis….nope, that would be about it. and i wouldnt think you would mention the VE anyhow because when you do , along with it stands out the mountain of recalls.
when you compare ford to holden here shows what ford has brought to aussie automotive FIRST AS STANDARD….
driver airbag
passenger airbag
remote locking
remote boot release
power windows
wheel mounted radio/ cruise control
all of these are just simple/basic things these days that are expected on even a $15K car
and not to mention the suspension on the fords that has shat over the holdens for years.
NOTE: this is all pre-BA, not to mention what it alone brought along
oh and not to mention the territory either.
as for exporting… what does that count for? all that means is GM are in that much trouble they have to start taking back from who it has leant to for years. and actually setting up ma product to export shows the company has less interests in the local area that supported it in the first place..AUSTRALIA.
and to follow up on the turn over of models thing do you not agree that holden turns its models over quicker than its competitors?
oh and what did The Efigy cost again??
Vote:July 9th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Nuff’n screams bogan more than me in my Black V8 crank’n slayer. And the best bogan V8’s are Fords. You’ll find more angry, bearded mulleted dudes in Fords anyday. I don’t think an Aurion pulls off the bogan look to well for me. I’ll keep me Ford. Cheers and Beers. Hahaha
Vote:July 9th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Logan the Bogan, while I would have to agtree with you the the Ford V8 would be the ideal car for bogans due to its awesome exhaust note, I would have to say that Holden ute drivers EASILY are the most boganish!
I would actually go so far as to say with quite a degree of surety that Holden ute owners have the highest number of bogans per owner of any other car or category anywhere!!
:)
Vote:July 9th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
me names bruice
Vote:July 9th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
QUOTE = hey paul look under the bonnet of the 380 and the aurion what does it say ill tell you MADE IN JAPAN
so they are not an australian made car are they
What is your point? I havent said it was and I couldnt care less, I want whats best for me… 200kw engine with a 6 speed transmission vs a 4 speed transmission with 180kw… oh but its ‘Australian’ (People have said that they dont even make their engines here either!).
QUOTE = and paul fwds dont have a “diff” they have a transaxle and cv’s
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? The term ‘transaxle’ is used to describe the assembly which contains the transmission, drive axle and the DIFFERENTIAL into one unit. FWD cars have a differential, the original comment and yours show a lack of mechanical knowledge (Which I dont have that extensively myself!)
QUOTE = Paul you have just proven my point that people who buy V8’s dont buy them with economy in mind, by saying they are reeled in by the features. what you are saying is V8’s are good value and there is more benefits in buying a V8 to worry about consumption
No thats not the interpretation I would make… they are providing more features because its a cost vs benefit thing, peopel consider the cost (ie fuel costs) over benefits (such as power and now features). By offering more features they are hoping people will see more benefits which in their mind outweigh the costs associated with such a car.
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 10:08 am
I was really hoping that the new Falcon would borrow its styling heavily off the Mustang. But this does not appear to be the case from what we can see.
Vote:Does anyone else like the retro look?
They could have also done a retro XY or XA looking car.
July 10th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
hey people…. i love to hear about the GTSR 7 litre V8 as a ford fan…you ask why would a ford fan like hearing this… well if they are going to put the top GM engine in a Commodore, ford should put there top engine in the Falcon… anyone for the 410Kw 5.4 litre supercharged V8 anyone??? the Ford GT40 engine, or even the 400kw V8 from the 2007 GT500KR??? LoL at holden…. i have heard the thing will only do 4.7 to 0-100km…what that?? the new typhoon should be around that mark anyway!!! lol!!! with the 300kw turbo 6!!! lol!!! or will we have to wait till 2011 the 40th annievsry of the GTHO pharse III… for the big engine… i cant wait for when ford finishes devoloping the 5.8 and the 6.2 litre V8s!!! then i say Bring it on Holden/GM!!!
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
It’s not how much grunt a cars got but how it uses it. So when I read articles about kilowatts and engine capacity all it tells me is guy (a) says he’s is bigger than guys (b) etc. If you don’t understand then look at the latest supercharged Lotus, 200kw with about 600 kilograms of weight doing 4 seconds to 100 kph.
Vote:What does this have to do with the new Orion, simple, if Ford can take off around 100 to 150 kilos of weight from the new Orion then it will be like having an extra 50 kw of power. This means greater acceleration, better fuel economy and of course more desirability as a lease car.
Oh yer, for all the people who have been bagging the overhang of the new Orion, do you remember the VL Commodore, great car on the race track. You see that overhang becomes part of the aero package.
July 10th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Paul,
this is what i said……
“what you are saying is V8’s are good value and there is more benefits in buying a V8 to worry about consumption”
you said my thought was incorrect and stated this
“By offering more features they are hoping people will see more benefits which in their mind outweigh the costs associated with such a car.”
now come on you cant honestly say what you have said is pretty much the same thing as what i have been saying.
LETS PUT THIS OUT THERE FOR A VOTE…… who believes the above sentences mean the same thing?
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
VE?… Wheels car of the year that got given to them last year. So stop milking that! No one cares!
Vote:The BA Falcon won 3 large car awards in a row including wheels car of the year, but you didn’t see Ford bragging about it every second of every day! Holden are a bunch of know-nothing morons.
They cannot produce their own model, they have to steal it off of other car models. And somehow they still made it look terrible!
Ford are the supreme against Holden. Nothing will change. Understand you biased sack of crap?
July 11th, 2007 at 7:01 am
Holden have and always will have it over the falcon any day
Vote:July 11th, 2007 at 8:28 am
holdenrules you fucking cheater just like hsv toll team
Vote:July 11th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Hey all you Holden die hards, I just read that the new Corolla has for the 4th time this year out sold the new VE Commodore. Gee guys you better go out and buy some more Commodores because Mr and Mrs Average prefer smaller cars, you know the ones that use less petrol and sort of have a high resale at the end of their lease.
Vote:July 11th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
The XR6 Turbo also won the “Best Sports Car Under $57000″ category.
Vote:July 11th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Great photos, looking forward to seeing the new Falcon on the road. Just one question, what the hell are “Wing” mirrors?
Vote:July 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Mr Holden (retard)…
Vote:Holden have never had it better over Ford… unless you include Fleet sales.
But that means nothing in performance and looks.
The only reason Holden haven’t collapsed is because all the stooges like you out there are too loyal to betray a car company that is “truly made in Australia”.
You are a fool, and the same goes for anyone else out there that thinks Holden really outdoes Ford.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
hey you holden fans,
i dont mind you guys visiting this site as long as you can put up a good fight for holden. at the moment you are just doing silly little name calling “holden is better than ford”…. WHAT THE??? do you care to elaborate?
you are obviously simple one eyed people (your names suggest that).
PLEASE TELL US ALL HOW HOLDEN IS BETTER THAN FORD
WHAT?? YOU GOT NUTHIN
Vote:July 12th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
okay guys i just want to lay down some simple rules…
until now Holden haven’t changed there look for about 20 years or so… and the new VE isnt anything special at that…
people who think that the BA/BF was ugly…. you must be jealous or something cause your ugly scum holden looks shit next to the falcon…
the xr series looks so fucken tough with the bonnet bulge on the 8’s and it seems holden realised that so they brought out the “sornkels” on their monaro…
hahaha looks like they went lookin at and XA to get that idea.. fucken wanks…
Underneath ford rapes holden to the grave..
we put double wish bone suspension on our rides so fucken holden do…
back in the day with the 5ltr they copied our blueprint…
they run bmw trannies…
chev engines…
in the v8 series they use our diffs…
it seems as time goes on they are becomin’ less of a commodore the only thing orginal is the badge and they can have that shit…
the ve just looks like some fucken excuse of a TONKA truck…
and not long ago they shut down their biggest production line in melbourne and 1000’s of jobs were lost casue they bulit another factory in mexico to save some coin…
“HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA” BAHAHAHAHAH don’t make me laugh
Vote:July 12th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
You tell’em Jacob!
Vote:July 12th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
azza is a dickhead whos the one that exports way more more cars than ford. 50% of of holdens that r made goes over seas and what is the car that heaps of manufactures have.for example vauxhal they have the neally all our cars they have they even have the new hsv clubsport, vxr.A another manafacture pontiac they know have the new ss,and they also had the monaro.chevolet has the monaro to,opel has the captiva,all the astra range and buick is getting the new ss as well and another brand which i forgot has the rodeo so what australian fords do u see overseas.
also all the holdens in the magazines eg wheels,motor they have a way better star rating than the shity fords i wavent seen a ford that has better yet
ps bob is gay
Vote:July 12th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
HAHAHA 50% of Holdens made go overseas. For starters their biggest seller the Commodore sells 80% to Australian fleets, now considering this car would have the biggest impact already Im doubting 50% made go overseas. But on top of this many of their vehicles aernt even made in Australia so their COMING from overseas not going their. You really a tosser Holdenrules. Id like to hear one explanation from you tohugh, why is Holden the only half reputable manufactuer who is now resorting to Korean trash? (Captiva, Epica, Viva, Barina… and others). Holden are a joke.
Vote:July 12th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
holden rules,
i see why you like holdens… because you dont know anything about them. THE ONLY AUSSIE MADE HOLDEN IS THE COMMODORE RANGE.(some people will beg to differ but we gotta give em something)
the rodeo comes from isuzu (yes import) and the “all new captiva range” is also an import
WOW!!! holden exports one platform
as for fords exports you might want to count the territory which other countries are shouting for and the new falcon range which is heading over aswell.
one thing is when ford imports/exports they dont try to hide/rebadge what they are bringing in or sending out.
when the falcon gets exported it will still be known world wide as a ford falcon. and when a focus or explorer for eg comes here, it is still a ford focus and ford explorer respectively.
when holden imports for eg they get a daewoo (that closed up in OZ because people realised they were crap) and sell it as a holden.
i didnt know that chev gets the monaro i thought they were badged pontiac instead (but i may be wrong)
but any way it must be cheap for them to send their cars over there cause they would just leave out the parts that come from overseas anyway (50%). especially those weighty V8’s
and i agree with paul, i dont know where you get your 50% are exported figures……please tell
Vote:July 12th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
I’m not biased towards either Holden or Ford, but it’s obvious as hell to anyone reading these comments that “holdenrules” is just a misinformed little twat who spouts verbal diarrohea!!
Almost NOTHING of what he has said to date is true!
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 9:17 am
holdenrules is comparing the ve which is a new platform to the old ba/bf platform hes going to get a shock when the new falcon comes out.
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 10:12 am
check out this article from the Adelaide Advertiser. mmm…
http://www.news.com.au/adelaid.....10,00.html
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 10:17 am
When the AU came out it was described as one of the worlds best large car platforms. As yet the new VE platform has not been given any rating. You will note that the Falcon range has for over 10 years had fold down back seats. The reason the new Commodore does not have fold down back seats is because to do so would reduce the strength of their platform; Ford doesn’t have that problem. Platforms/chassis designs usually last atleast 20 to 30 years so the current Ford platform could last atleast another 10 to 15 years.
Vote:As I understand the changes to the Ford platform is to accomodate left and right hand drive.
I have just seen the Car section of the Herald Sun which has design pictures of the new Ford Orion. Looks pretty stunning and I believe will give the new Commodore a run for its money.
But like I have said before the small car segment is starting to grow and the big car segment is getting smaller. Ford has already reduces its production run (I believe they might start building the Ford Focus in Australia) but Holden has not. What am I saying, if the market changes to small cars Ford has already addressed its production run but Holden has not.
I do believe the new Commodore could have a similar fate to the Mitsubishi 380, good car but only bought by Mr and Mrs average not lease companies. I understand that Holden has had a 2% drop in sales since the new VE was released.
July 13th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Prity sure its still selling well with fleets, that wont be a huge issue I think… but overall I think they are shooting themselves in the foot relying heavily on the large car market while cheapening any image they had of their smaller cars (2 star Barina, Viva, Vectra replaced for Epica and Astra being dropped?). Not the best strategy imo considering that market is only going to get bigger.
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
pretty sure holden should of realsed the whole range on new shit its been a year and there was no wagon, and no ute…. wtf is that
don’t think if it was a billion dollar baby they would of brought everything out at once instead of just the sedan fleet?
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
I hate it already. It looks like the wheelbase from a Focus was used and a Falcon body chucked on top. the rear overhang is terrible.
I am no Holden or Ford fan, but personally i think the Commodore looks more refined and less “rushed” i loved the BA and BF Falcon, They were a great design but i think this is reliving the AU all over again.
I don’t think any falcon will ever look as good as the EF Falcon.
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
this car is going to dominate the car market if it has other engines like a disel or some over form of fuel efficiencey. even if they dont it still will be the best car made in australia it will do what the ba did to the vy but better
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
But they already got the lpg they dont need disel
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
people think that disels are better at the moment because of all the european cars with it and audi winning la mans twice with a disel
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
http://carsguide.news.com.au/s.....40,00.html
have a look at this wholey fuck i’m gonna start saving they look so nice
Vote:July 13th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
quote=ford is gay fullstop ve wheels care of the year what u got nuthin
Boy I tell you we have had a lot more wheels COTY in recent years than holden has had. if all of you holden fans really want to defend holden then bring the real facts not personal attacks and not pointless exersises in typing that say thing like “ford are gay”……get a life retards
Vote:. NOW every ford fan here has to agree with me…….I want to see pics of the new falcon with the v8 supercar body kit on it
July 13th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Bob said.
Diesels are the way for Ford. We have the new Focus with a turbo diesel (100kw with 320Nm torque, do you know these are the same power/torque figures of the trusty XF Falcon), there will be the new Mondeo latter this year and I hope Ford will have a turbo diesel in the new Orion range.
Vote:What people forget about LPG is that it uses 2 to 3 litres per 100km more than petrol, so in actual fact it does cost more in the long run. I have a friend of mine who until 3 months ago swore that LPG was the bees-knees. He has just started to have some problems with his LPG which is starting to cost big time. THe LPG conversion was done some 6 years ago.
July 13th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
ford is quality and holden is crap
Vote:July 14th, 2007 at 11:12 am
there more picture on this site
http://www.caradvice.com.au/38.....-pictures/
Vote:July 14th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
I’m starting to think I should check this site more often! Thats the funniest yet stupidest slur of crap I have yet endured from anyone on here!
Vote:holdenrules, what kind of dip shit are you?
Chevrolet don’t have the Monaro! They don’t need it!
And what Australian made Fords have I seen overseas?
Well how about the successful named Falcon that got exported from here in Australia to the UK and the USA in the 1960’s?
The Falcon was a huge success! But Ford in the other parts of the world went with their own designs instead of Australia’s. Ie. The Mondeo, Sierra and the Mustang. All these (par the Mondeo) were around the same time as the Falcon, but they’d just rather their own design.
Which is why I believe that the Falcon and Territory will work overseas. Being that we are going to be receiving shipments of Mondeos and Mustangs in the near Future.
Oh yeah, how stupid are you again?
You’re comparing overseas sales between two companies, one that owns other overseas companies (Ford) and one that is owned by overseas companies (Holden)…
Just give up, you are an embarrassment to yourself, General Motors and this internet site.
July 14th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Anyone checkout the latest Motor Magazine?
They have an article in it on Dyno tests done on the following cars diffence being on claimed and actual flywheel KWs.{ Sorry in advance if I do any typo’s}
Claimed Flywheel Test RWK
GTS 307 kw 302.4 245.2
R8 307 kw 299.0 243.9
SS 270 kw 291.9 236.2
SS-V 270 kw 285.3 232.0
Force 8 290 kw 282.4 229.3
FPV Force 6 270 kw 275.4 229.2
XR6T 245 245 kw 236.2 195.1
Interesting stats ? % difference KW difference
GTS -1.5 -4.6 kw
R8 -2.6 -8.0 kw
SS +8.1 +21.9 kw
SS-V +5.7 +15.3 kw
FPV Force 8 -2.6 -7.6 kw
FPV Force 6 +2.0 +5.4 kw
XR6T -3.6 -8.8 kw
Good Story Motor !!
Vote:July 14th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Oh crap, I spaced it all out when I typed it.
Sorry if its hard to read now but its basicaly.The figures in order are.
Claimed,fly wheel test,rear wheel KWs.
The second section is % difference and KWs difference.
Vote:July 14th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
thers an artical saying that the orion will drop there inline six and change it to a v6
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 9:58 am
I can tell you the new falcon is a lot BF II with the territory steering rack. The sixes get a 5 sp auto plus better economy. The XR8 gets the 290kw engine and the GT gets around 320kw.
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Oh yeah and the V6 will be in by 2010
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
why V6? why V6? why V6? they dont need it
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
hey missile thats a pretty good post u put there see the holden comes out on top again
Vote:p.s bob is gay eat it
July 15th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Ford Australia are considering replacing their current in-line six-cylinder with an imported V6 mainly to ensure compliance with the Euro IV emissions laws being introduced on the 1st July 2010.
More Bloody emissions levels, I mean its getting out of control all this tree hugging. Ford in the US are going to be making their seats out of SOY!!!!! Yep because most cars in the world have about 15 kilos of petrolium based foam in it.
Quote “Soy is a very green, renewable resource,” says Debbie Mielewsk, technical leader for Ford’s Materials Research & Advanced Engineering Department. “Using soy-based foam gives us the opportunity to conserve natural resources and reduce our environmental footprint.”
Most automotive manufacturers today use 100 percent petroleum-based polyol foam. Each vehicle produced today contains an average of 30 pounds of petroleum-based foam. The total annual worldwide market for the foam is 9 billion pounds. Milewski says auto manufacturers research and development of renewable, more environmentally friendly materials to produce the foam, could have a significant environmental impact.
Ok when can I get one of those Cadbury cars that I can eat when I am hungry ????
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
hey guys, I love youse all (not homosexually. holdenrules is my friend at school and we are constantly arguing because im a diehard ford fand and he is… well you get the idea. anyways what u are currnetly experiencing is just a tatse compared with what I have to put up with. Like u guys when he starts pewing shit, and I get him with the facts he then spouts off saying “oh who won v8s last year” or “whos in the lead in v8s this year”. it shits me right off. only when I tyold him how the BA was the most successful v8 supercar and since NASCAR is considered a higher level of motorsport compared to v8s thats why marcos is still finding his feet and WHY he is better than the HSV/HRT drivers. he then goes on about how holden is exported to america and then I tell him ford has been in america for 100+ years
ok thats it for me i will be back, thanks to everyone for the defense of the mighty blue oval and as always GO FORD!
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Hahaha,Holden Rules don’t get to excited on the stats,there’s a lot of variables involved that can change those results.Owners of other Fords have got more when they have put their cars on the Dyno ,I cant tell you private results from Holden owners as there normally too busy polishing that 307 KW badge on the back of their car ,or is that 299 or 302 KWs.Lol
Either way if they were right it just shows Holden are bigger liars.
Its similar I guess to the 1/4 mile times that are indicated in the Wheels & Motors on the cars, there not right either. Who gets a 14.3 out of a stock FPV GT ? Wheels !!!!!!!! Funny how Motor get 13.9 and owners that have had them for a while get more again.
Vote:July 15th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
missile you are dead right,
i meanthere are a lot of variables when they do testing and also a lot of conflicting out comes. firstly on the KW debate, i read some time ago that there is 2 different scales for measuring kw or hp and they differ to the tune of what the stats you showed us.
1-2 kw doesnt make or break a car.like wise with 1/4 mile times and fuel consumption.
you wont notice anything under 10kw of difference in a car especially when we are talking over 300kw.
with 1/4 mile times temperature and track surface have a big impact on that so dont brag if yours has .5 a sec better, and if a shit driver is behind the wheel dont even mention 2 secs
fuel consumption,
Vote:well i dont know how in the hell anyone measures this. i have owned fords and know of other ford owners that get 100k’s more outta a tank then what the specs say too. and then there are classic examples of cars like the captiva that get 100k’s LESS outta a tank. so to sum up that one dont be swayed by 1L a 100k’s either
July 16th, 2007 at 11:55 am
ive heard of gt’s doing 315kw on a dyno seems like a lot more power then a 290kw fords says.
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
no bob it was never 315kw not stock anyway
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Garth Tander is a cheat,just like his tool mate Crash Bandicoot. The whole OF HRT and the Tool Team should have been disqualified last year for blocking Craig and then pushing him off the track. Holden should hang their head in shame. They didn’t deserve to win the championship on cheating,but I guess thats the only way you guys can win.
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
to Tony M. what you say about LPG i strongly disagree. LGP use more so need to fell up more often. head and injectors fuck up every 100,000ks. more maintenance eg gas tank, hose check up before getting rego. it also lose 20% to 30% of you power. we don’t want that to happen if we want to beat the shit out of holden lololo. by the way i drive a LS1 250 HSV and it goes ok but everything is started to full apart now what a waste of money. go the FALCON
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Tony M,
give me LPG over diesel especially in a falcon.
gee i hope you are not a maths teacher cause i dont see how you figure LPG costs more in the long run.
yes you are right LPG does use a few more Litres per 100k’s (thats why they give you a bigger fuel tank too) but dont forget its a bit under half the price. so therefore LPG motors could consume double the amount of a petrol motor and you would break even on fuel costs and saving the environment would still be a bonus. when you go through the maths properly, LPG in comparison will save you half on your fuel bill.
as for reliability i can assure you the conversion is nowhere as good as a dedicated gas model, especially if it was an older conversion. you see a lot of old conversions are pretty rough to say the least. i have seen them pretty much bust a hole in the inlet manifold, stick a hose in and silicone it up. plus you have the task of tuning the car to 2 different fuel qualities.
and to further the ask for gas is the fact the new falcon will be injected gas so therefore better economy and power.
ford needs to turbo a gas falcon to get people excited about it. a lot of people are scared of gas i think. and i admit i was too until i purchaced a dedicated gas falcon ute. i use mine for towing aswell and it tows/picksup than my mate who uses a 2007 turbo diesel hilux 4×4.
yes i suppose there is a bit more servicing with it like they pressure test the tank every 10 years,the fill limiting valve needs to be checked as part of scheduled servicing, but i dont know what you mean by hoses. i mean petrol cars should have their fuel hoses checked too.
oh yeah and if i remember toyota and holden both had recalls on their fuel tanks due to splitting. a gas tank has less chance of splitting/cracking
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Pushrod said: I’m not sure what you are trying to say because it sounds as if you agree with me regarding LPG.
I was looking at another Ford sight this morning where they showed the new Ford V6. It looks like a great motor.
If we are to compete on the world stage then we need to look at using a world class motor. I believe that Australia makes some of the best chassis in the world and I believe we need to look at using more overseas components.
What I believe Ford need to do is start to produce (put together) small to medium cars like to Focus. This I hope will save the 600 jobs that might be lost if we stop making the 4 litre Ford engine.
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Tony M
the I6 motor made right here is a world class motor too.
dont forget people reducing the engine capacity wont always reduce fuel consumption either. holden have proven it. infact they get worse consumption from the 3.6L than what they got from the 3.8L
also the ford V6 in question has a fair bit less torque which suggests that consumption would be worse aswell especially under load
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
andrew is a dick like cock sucking slow ass craige lowdes
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Looks like the 12 year olds are back!!!!!!!!!!!
Vote:July 16th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
what 12 year olds are back
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 9:26 am
Andrew M: Yes the Ford inline 6 is a great motor but what we need to remember is we are part of a global market. It’s not an issue of how great our motor is because in the end it will be Ford USA who decides what we will and will not use.
Vote:I hate to say this but I believe that our future Australian cars will be “bitsa” cars.
You know every one is jumping up for joy because our dollar is so high, well remember what happens to the price of our exports (especially our cars/components).
It’s clear to me that the new Orion with have to be part of the gobal market and I would not be surprised if our chassis (both Orion and Commodore)will be exported to the States for use on their cars.
As for those people who seem to have a problem with certain parts of theirs and other anatomy, grow up if possible. All you do is display a lack of class and knowledge. And at a guess I would suggest you measure things by size not by use.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:30 am
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 10:44 am
this cracks me up reading all these ford vs. holden comments, come-on people we all know ford is better than holden any day
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
You know what really cracks me up is the number of people that live in a dream world of Holden verses Ford and Ford verses Holden.
Wake up to yourselves, the world is changing, big cars are being put out to pasture all over the world. Unless Holden and Ford in Australia can reduce fuel consumption in their Falcons and Commodore, all I can say is “Buy Buy Jack” no more making cars in Australia.
I don’t mean to be synical but really guys, some of you Holden guys especially, need to get a life. Reading who is the number one driver in V8 Super cars. Hey who cares, what these guys earn a week you guys earn a year. And think carefully about what I said because it just might mean you work in a dead end job maybe at Holden counting the nuts and bolts (that now come from China) that go on the Commodore.
If you want reality, I can see the Ford Orion being the last Ford made in Australia with the new Mondeo being its replacement (check on the dimension differences between the Falcon and Mondeo).
And if I were a Holden supporter, take note of the number of cars that come from Asia with the Holden badge on them. Oh yeh, in the early 70’s there was a car called the Rambler Hornet, it had flared guards.
Vote:12 months later it died a slow death, why, flared guards on day to day cars go out of fashion so quick.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
i remember reading in a wheels mag that they had inside info and that the i6 will power the orion and it will meet euro 4 emmissions for when they come into place in 2010. the emission laws that are in place now stopped holden from making some of their v8 models like the crewman v8 avalaunche or some stupid name like that and a few others.
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
well maybe not i get paid 9 and a half million a year
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
You must be related to this former Formula 1 driver I think.
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Tony M,
well i sorta agree with you in the fact that if they dont do something about the large cars that segment will slowly die. thats why some one like ford should knuckle down and produce an awesome LPG motor for example. large cars wont die if they do something about the fuel costs.
i think ford are improving their gas range as they have put a more catchy name to it now …G6E. that to me means they are going to have something pretty good and really worth spruking about. (well lets hope so)
the ultimate way to go with it is to put some gas turbo models out there to show people you can get the same power out of gas when it is done properly.
also i think they will adress the fuel type first before they kill them off as they are developing a hydrogen turbo falcon at the moment. it may be a bit off production yet but lets hope its not too late by then. you see even if the hydrogen is their long term solution, i think putting a bit of $$ in to gas is the immediate solution.
as for Garth T,
Vote:well how am i meant to be insulted by someone who cant even spell???
July 17th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Missile: I totally agree with u about the way holden won the championship last year. What we could of had was a race reminiscant of the great peter brock/dick johnson race at lakeside in 1981 which as the same situation and the eventual outcome left fans of both sides happy with the results. But no other holden drivers had to block lowndes and the brothers gay had to run him off the track in order to win. FUCKIN BULLSHIT
Vote:July 17th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
i curently have a falcon bf xt and i whent and test drove the holden omega, ill tell you the ford is a much much quiter car when your driving. You cant hear the tyers, and the suspention has a softer feel
which makes the ride cumfertable
in my apinion the falcon is 5 years old but its just as good as the new holden iff not better, im Quit seprized about holden spending one billion dollers when the 5 year old falcon is just as good
Vote:July 18th, 2007 at 9:01 am
I have just read that Ford will be closing their engine making plant. I feel for those who might lose their jobs directly and indirectly. When you see what Ford USA has been doing over the last 12 months in rationalising their organisation (similarly so has GM)you realise that it had to have an impact in Australia.
The Ford Orion appears to be the last car that Ford makes with their straight six. But a car is more than its engine. I still believe the dynamics of the current and future Fords is vastly superior than the current Commodore. It is clear from the reports out in the car industry that the Falcon is more tailored to Australian conditions than the Commodore.
We do need both the Falcon (Orion) and the Commodore in Australia as our population is increasing. But I do believe that we should be more Europe orientated than American in our car design and dynamics.
Andrew M: I still believe Ford will have to taylor the new V6 to accomodate LPG as I believe this fuel source is a widely accepted alterantive to petrol in Australia but a also believe that there will be a major shit to diesel. I have read an article in one of the car magazines that suggest in the next Commodore update, Holden will be using a turbo diesel engine as well as their current 3.6 litre petrol.
Vote:July 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
does anybody know the power figures of the v6 ford engine and what kind of fuel consumption.
Vote:July 18th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
The 3.5 litre Duratec engine has 198kw and 339 Nm of torque. I’m led to believe that we might get a 3.8 litre which I can’t find any power or torque figures for. One thing that must be remembered is that the engine is all aluminium which will make it very light.
I also read that it was regarded as one of the top 10 engines in the world.
Vote:July 19th, 2007 at 10:48 am
if this engine was to be released in 2010 its going to need more power and torque then the last of the i6 which is going to be like +200kw and more torque maybe 390nm or more.
Vote:July 19th, 2007 at 11:36 am
i dont think a 3.5L is inuff the new holdens are 3.6L and there really slugish it feels like thers no torque
but i guess iff they want real good fuel aconamy thats what you would have to do
Vote:July 19th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
the 4l i6 gets 10.2l per 100km and the holden only gets 10.7l per 100km. and dont forget the ford has more power and more torque
Vote:July 19th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
yea it wont have more torque if it becomes a v6 3.5L
Vote:July 20th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
This new falcon is very stylish and more apealing then the boring VE commedore.
and also there is no point of changing the 4.0 litre inline 6 cylinder engine when it is jst as powerful than a V6 and it has more torque. who cares if it old technology it works
Vote:July 20th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Look all you wankers. The Ford Boss 5.4 is a better engine than the Holden 6 Litre. Who cares where the engines are made, the fact remains the 5.4 is more technology advanced. It has slightly less KW than the 6 liter but the 5.4 has more torque so is arguably the more powerful engine. It is a smaller engine with roughly equivilent HP as the Holden 6 litre. I think Holden R8 is a good looker, which, is where Ford will need to match or better in 2008. But if you are in the market for a powerful car then you need to look at the mechanics of the vehicle as well as the looks. This is where the Ford comes into its own. The Ford is extremly suffisticated in engine,transmision,computerised handling, particularly when cornering. It is streets ahead of the commadore. If the 2008 has the right body it will be a hands down winner. I am looking to sell my 2006 BMW 5 for the 2008 Ford Package. I have done my research.
Vote:July 20th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Guys on the Ford Forum have just posted the next wheels cover,with the pics that we all got last week of the Phoon and GT, 320kw !!!!!!!!!! So stuff that in your pipe Holden and smoke it . Always behind !!
Vote:July 20th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
garth tander rules go holden queensland raceway
Vote:July 20th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Garth WHO!!!!!!! Cheat Tool Team !!!!!!
Vote:July 21st, 2007 at 8:28 am
The issue regarding the inline 4.0 litre in comparison to the V6 3.5 litre (I still believe Ford will use the 3.8 litre) is the smaller motor is made of aluminium which heats up quicker and therefore creates less polusion.
What I don’t understand is why they don’t cut 2 cylinders off the 4.0 litre motor which should bring it down to about 2.6 litres and make it into a turbo diesel engine. All the hardware to don this is at Geelong, and guess what, it would be made for export.
There is another engine that might by put out to pasture and that is the 5.4 V8, why, try iron block. But fortunately Ford has the all aluminium 4.4 V8.
Vote:Put a supercharger on it and I believe we are talking about 400kw.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:22 am
Looking at that bonnet buldge im thinking theres air vents under that cover…maybe the buldge acts as a bonnet scoop as well.
The back of the GT is sitting very low (look at the wheel arch), but the driver could be accelerating.
I think there will be a wing on the back, im predicting a slight backward gradient (look how far the back bumper sticks out from the top of the boot).
Correct me if im wrong but is that plastic on the bottom of the doors there to stay?? Their is definetley more on this car then the BA/BF. i suppose it does give it a bit of character (door handles are different also).
It looks like ford have done a bit of work on the brakes, The caliper in the front of the GT has been moved to the back of the discs.
The last thing i noticed (the only thing im not to sure about) is that curve at the back of the back door extending above the roof line. But overall i think this car may out class the VE… i can however be sure that the sixes will be in a class of their own. im looking forward to turning one into a race car
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
The Orion Falcon looks set to be a triumph for Ford Australia. It carries design cues from BFII and other car styling and engine/transmission from BF that will easily be competitive until the 2010 V6 comes into play. If the is the new ”AU” Imagine how good our future mid – life facelift ”BA” will be by 2012… The styling wont polorise like AU, wont be as unreliable as the EA was, and not a glass house like the XD. I’m a New Zealander, where the term ‘Orion’ was used as a sub modal for a telstar between 1992 – 1997. I still believe the EA was the most stunning new aero dynamic modal of all new generations.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Hey Andrew you back from the V8s yet ?????
Have a look at the link I have posted above,if you read some of what they have found on the car thats new you will see the new Orion has indicators on the mirrors as I said previously.
Great race today,LOTS of biff and barge.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 8:19 am
I think the ea was far more reliable then the el au ba and bf ( with my experiance anyway)…i really do hope they look at improving the quality of the falcons in this model…but if this car is as successfull as the BA was, or more, then we have ourselves a great car. i still remember lokking at the AU when it first arrived and i was worried but not when i look at this. And as for the v6 in 2010, we dont need it, i love the inline sixes, its where our advantage lies
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 9:20 am
Oh yeah, whats with the holden guys just saying HOLDEN RULES, FORD SUCKS bla bla bla. its clear you dont know shit about cars, and just because you drive a $700 rusty holden thats about 30 years old with 70kw doesnt make you holden fan of the year…you dont see mark cromie on here making a complete dick of himself
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Holden Rules: You need help.
I know plenty of people who are real Holden supporters and believe me they’re nothing like you. Again I say you need help.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Yeah the Falcon in-line six is iconic to Ford but so far have been unsussessful at tweaking it to meet new emission standards that must be met by 2010. Reluctantly, a US V6 comes in and has been approved, a world class engine by any standards but a V6 (sigh)
Vote:July 24th, 2007 at 11:11 am
I didnt say their arent real holden supporters, but the people i mentioned dont know shit…comprehension mate
Vote:August 2nd, 2007 at 5:09 pm
I dont think thats the new falcon, looks more like 1996 toyota camry to me. very very pedestrian
Vote:August 4th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
its confirmed
Vote:the orion FPV
GT=320kW
F6=300kW
GTHO?
August 4th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
AS a previous owner of 19 high performance ford vehicles and currently a new GTP that I was forced to spend a rediculous amount of money with trial and error to get it to stop and handle,I have been modifying ford vehicles for race and road for around 35 years and I have to say in truth my wifes VE SSV 6.0L commodore has it all over my vehicle ,looks,brakeing, handleing, engeneering,tighter to drive and build/finish quality are high above any FORD I have owned and for $18,000 less I will be buying the new fpv orion when they come out but I trully believe ford will have to do something trully amazing to be up there with Holden.Holden always seems to be one step ahead of ford. I think the top boy at ford should start listening to the people who buy their vehicles,because I’m getting sick of second best, every one is talking about the new typhoon in my opinion yeh.. its going to get up and go,…. but with that much h/p coming out of such an old design engine I cant see it lasting to 100,000klm with out a big $ rebuild but good luck to anyone who buys one.
Vote:I’m a bigger ford fan than you can imagine but I give credit where its due.holden have put together a truly remarkable world leading car,and anyone that rubbishes it should take one for a drive for a day to see what we are missing out on.
regards. Paul
August 5th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Paul GTP said: you might be right regarding the high performance end of the Australian made cars. But you measure a car by the bottom end of the market and I believe the current Ford Falcon is a better car that the VE Commodore. What I seem to notice is the Falcons just keep on comming while the Commodores have high maintanence costs over time.
The interesting point you made about how a high performance FPV turbo Falcon might need an engine rebuilt at 100,000km should also be considered when you have the current Commodore weight increase of 100 plus kg and how it’s 3.6 litre engine is struggling to handle the heavier car. I suspect the Commodore might need an engine rebuilt a lot sooner.
Vote:August 7th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
paul GTP said: on reference to the F6 “but with that much h/p coming out of such an old design engine I cant see it lasting to 100,000klm”. I also have been turning falcons into race cars for years and we get alot of power out of these i6s. on a race track these cars are open throttle most of the time…and il tell you what these engines rarely break…and thats on the race track. The typhoons generate this power effortlessly, the torgue is huge (its away at 2000 revs, unlike the V8s that dont come in until about 4000) and if you own a typhoon, your not going to have your foot on the floor for much longer then 10s at any one time (if you have then your going bloody fast), these engines will go for ever…its the car that will break first.
Vote:August 7th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
who comfirmed these figures i thought i was still speculation and wheels insiders. though i do believe the gt and f6 will have 320 and 300 wheels reckons the typhoon will have 575nm of torque from 2000 rpm but they say it will be only able to do 0- 100kmh in low 5s but hsv claim gts can do 0-100 in 4.9. that car does have more power but not as much torque and from that low. plus it should be lighter car
Vote:August 10th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Bavarian: in relation to the Kelly Lowndes “incident” last year you’re about 6-8 months too late.
If you watch the replay several times you will see that Lowndes was on the inside line to turn 2 which was a left hander and both Kelly boys were on the outside therefore; had to go the long way round.
However; the next turn was a right hander which meant that the Kelly boys were now on the inside line and Lowndes was on the outside.
If lowndes had used his head he would have realised that the corner after that was a left hander and that he would probably be on the inside line again.
But no he tried to force his way inbetween the Kelly boys [into a space that wasn't even big enough for a mini]. Todd kelly hit the brakes early then Rick brakes a little bit later than most.. which closed the gap even further. Lowndes kept coming accross and contact was made.
Later during the subsequent replays Neil Crompton said that Lowndes should have backed off. as at the point of contact Kelly was on the racing line and therefore had right of way.
Vote:Yet Lowndes persistent whinging and complaining resulted in Kelly getting a drive through
as did Skaif and Tander for blocking when in fact they were racing for position. It’s as if Lowndes is a protected species.
August 10th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Kelly is a handbag . Beleive what you want they were blocking Craig and the officials new it in the end by giving Kelly the drive through. They Cheated !!!!!!!!!!
It will go down as one of the most undeserving championship wins in V8 Supercars history as far as the Ford fans are concerned.
Vote:August 10th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
If you Ford [Lowndes] Fans were upset by the “racing incident” at PI last year I ‘ve got some even worse news for you
Both HSVDT and HRT are looking at cross entering all 4 drivers; from each team that is Skaife; Tander; Kelly; Kelly; [and the Co Drivers]; into all 4 cars for the upcoming endurance races. This means that should 3 of their cars fail to finish they can switch all 8 drivers over into the remaining car.
The word is AVESCO won’t/can’t stop them.
Vote:Apparently Holden has found a loophole under FIA rules which allows them to do so..
Because Sanddown and Bathurst are open to drivers from overseas it is run under international rules.
It’s not so much cheating as using the rules to your advantage.
August 10th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
But Karma got them last year when Skafie cooked the clutch on the line at Bathurst,hahahaha Tander looked real dirty,I bet he’s hoping Skafie isnt going to be his team mate AGAIN!
They did a similar thing last year hope Karma catches them again,I know I will be out with my VOODOO Skaife doll sticking pins in him again. Worked last year ! I am a Enforcer fan anyway,bring back GOD/ Ambrose for Russells team mate and look out Murphy if that happens.LOL…….
Vote:August 10th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
PAH! Rick Kelly in my point of view, as well as many others, has become one of the biggest cheaters of the new millenium!
Vote:That championship belonged to Craig Lowndes!
If Kelly had of won it fairly then I’m sure that all the Ford supporters would have bowed down respectively. Which is something all you Holden supporters don’t know about… Regardless of how many more times Ford has won the V8’s, Holden is still the better? How does that work?
August 10th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Spot on Azza, no one has respect for Kelly ,he has always seemed to have punted drivers off the track,remember Bright in wall at about 150 klm at Indy a few years ago c/o of Crash Bandicott ? Then Bright was Holden too,Kelly is a tool not TOll!!!!!!!!! He is such a girl,he sounds like he’s crying when he gets upset ,maybe his gonads havent dropped yet,his voice sounds like it! HAHAHAHA
Vote:August 11th, 2007 at 9:31 am
The reason he cooked the clutch was due to the incompetents in race control. The 10 second board was displayed whilst there were still a couple of drivers getting ready at the rear of the grid. As a result instead of being 10 seconds it was closer to 20 seconds [or more] as they have done on several other occassions. That’s what’s so good about the way they start Indy/Champ Car races – a rolling start.
Ambrose won’t be available for the Enduros.. which will probably mean less safety car interventions.
The incident with Murphy was another example of a Ford Driver throwing the championship away.
Watch previous Races at Mt Panorama and you’ll see coming out of CAT Corner the majority of drivers go wide