Click to see the latest on the 2008 Ford Falcon.
Sporting a set of woolen mitts and beanie, our elusive spy photographer braved the frosty conditions to bring you the latest pictures that the blue oval don’t want anyone to see.
First up, Ford has been extensively testing the use of ‘space-saver’ tyres. The following photo shows a space-saver tyre fitted to a vehicle. Our spy photographer tells us that the vehicle seen in the picture – along with crash-helmet clad driver – were performing continuous evasive and high-speed swerving maneuvers, most probably testing the strength and capacity of the space-saver tyre. This suggests that Ford is likely to follow in Holden’s footsteps and also offer this tyre on the new Falcon.
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Second on the agenda is the FPV range of vehicles. Spotted below is either the GT or GT-P. One thing’s for certain, the bulge is here to stay. The cover on the right hand side of the lights is labeled with “remove for night driving,” possibly indicating a Xenon headlight treatment to the upper models in the range. Also written on the front and rear wheel arches is “160mm,” possibly indicating a protrusion of 16cm for the wheel arches.
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Our spy photographer said that the vehicle photographed had an extremely meaty and mean note. It was also running a quick-shifting automatic gearbox, indicating that the ZF will remain on the cards.
Also noted was that the GT featured cross-drilled and slotted Brembo brakes, possibly opening the doors to a higher-capacity braking system.
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Next on the agenda is Ford’s XR8. Sources confirm that the XR8 nameplate will stay and the following photos also confirm that the bonnet bulge will stay.
According to sources, the Fairmont, XR6, XR8, Futura names will remain in the Orion lineup.
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The spy photographer then managed to spot a Futura model doing the rounds near one of Ford’s facilities in Victoria. The images show that Ford’s new Orion will probably carry over the same rear suspension setup as the BF Falcon.
Although a large portion of the interior was covered up, the photos indicate the Futura model spotted will receive woodgrain highlights on the doors. Also evident is a new handle for the door release, along with revised switchgear for the window operation.
A remodeled steering wheel is also on the cards as per the images, along with a new gear selector. A triangular shaped repeated on the side will replace the oval shaped repeater used on the BF. It’s still unclear if Ford will use repeaters on the wing mirrors. Every model spotted so far has had its wing mirrors covered up and the GT or GT-P photographer earlier in this post also has a small portion taped up.
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Padding is visible in the bottom right of the next photo, indicating that the bumper bar is a somewhat fake layout.
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Indicator repeater
The development of the new Falcon seems well in advance. It won’t be long before more and more vehicles are seen on the streets.
Remember, if you have any spy photos of Ford’s new Falcon – or any other vehicle for that matter – contact CarAdvice, if the photos are decent, we’re willing to pay cash (more than the major magazines). High-resolution copies of the images attached are available. Please contact CarAdvice to request copies.
Guys, these are great spy shots, congrats to the phptographer, I hope they’re planning more!!!
look closely at the front, the headlight thru the disguse.
BF headlights with the ugly kick down bit, are obviously very similar to this…
:(
yuck!
Yep, congrats to our photographer. He is a genius! These are the best shots yet!
Finally some edge-of-seat photos! They are the best yet! The GT is definitely a GT, look at the grille! The front of the car is extremely visible in the GT pics! Bring on the 320kw V8! :)
Well done!!! Being a female first thing I noticed was the bulge still in the bonnet! Not sure about the interior ,too early for us to know. Remember when the BA GT came out at the motor shows,windows were blacked out as there was no GT interiors fitted still at that stage! The GT version must be on it around the corner as look how low its sitting over the tyres! Also it has a tow bar !! Yippy lets hope they have put a cut out in the bumper for it this time.
WHACK!!………… There goes the ugly stick again!
Great shots as usual. Strange that the GT/GTP mule doesn’t have a spoiler. I wonder if this is just to keep the spoiler design under wraps or that they just aren’t coming with one.
I would imagine if they put the pram handle on the back it would be a give away,BUT one would think its part of the handling package so how are they testing it with out it?
it could be the force 8
Will they keep the Force 8 ? I thought it was a way of ditching BF GT parts?
The spoiler would be used in the wind tunnel. They should be keeping Force 8. Wait and see. Oh Holden watch out.
just hope that they make the gt’s and the other fpv cars lighter
Great. Looks better everytime I look at it. I still don’t know about the back though.
i gotta say im a fan of the bootlip over the full spoiler, give it a little more subtlety.
I think the wing will still be there ,but later!
im sure it will, still prefer the lip though
So much for all the dribble of the orion being a ‘fresh ‘ design compared with VE, looks like a reconstituted AU once again…ugly stickX2
What do ya mean “so much for all the dribble of the orion bring a ‘fresh’ design compared to the VE”, it is a fresh design. If you mean its not totally different as in with Gull wing doors and hatchback styling, then what do you expect from a 4 door sedan.
That space saver tyre, maybe thats for the LPG falcons. I’m not sure correct me if i’m wrong some, lpg falcons have space savers as standard and some dealers put full sizers in their place? Funny they use a BFmkII which hints that they are afraid the tyre might pop and send the car crashing, meaning ford dont trust that tyre to be driving a expensive test car. Hmmm. Thats promising. Or the BF Falcon wagon weighs more so they test the heavier car on that tyre, which might suggest the new falcon is lighter?
Why oh why the LOOONNG front overhang that makes the car look like a front driver? What is up with that? Short front overhangs are in, but someone forgot to tell Ford.
In no particular order can I suggest,
a. it’s not a particular long front overhang when you have to package an INLINE 6 cylinder which a definite strength, rather than a V6. Besides the detail visible in the GT (?) photos show some nice design in the front headlights which are reminiscent of the Mondeo lights … I like it.
b. Everyone gets emotional on space saver tyres and I would prefer a full size spare myself, but making them available as an option for customers who dont worry about such stuff gives plenty of advantages in packaging and luggage space. I’d bet that Ford wont make it standard … just as an option. Currently, the only standard space saver in BF Falcon is on LPG Sedans, but a full size spare is available as a factory build option.
c. the reason I’d suggest that the GT doesn’t have a spoiler is that they would likely put camouflage over it and it would be impossible to see rearward.
c. Looking at the pictures I’m really liking what I’m seeing on the front styling of the car on the GT car. When you compare the firewall forward on the Orion to the BF Wagon … the front box looks far more muscular and dare I say it, has a bit of VT Commodore curve in it without the flared guards. The headlights are a strong feature and very contemporary. I think they will give the car a very powerful presence looking front on.
e. with the camo over the roofline its hard to know for sure whether they have fixed the problems getting into the vehicle (bumping heads) but the roofline looks a lot squarer which gives hope.
f. One thing I do hope that Ford addresses is the passive and active safety package. Stability control standard to complement ABS, EBD and traction control already there. Dual front and side curtain airbags as a minimum standard on ALL models with side (seat fitted) airbags also preferred. No more of this nonsense from Ford (and GM) about the lower models having to pay extra for side, curtain airbags or DSC … it’s ridiculous and ignoring the competitors (including medium size cars) who are making them all standard.
g. If they can get an obvious uplift in build and fitment quality (particularly the interior) then they will be on a good thing!
Its all very exciting though … can’t wait for the car to arrive. The Commode had to spend a billion bucks to catch up in so many areas to Falcon (IRS, driving dynamics, steering). 10% to 20% improvement in certain areas and it will continue to exceed the Commode for driving experience (other than high power V8) … I dont reckon will waste money chasing something they cant beat … better to stick with their comparitive advantage in the 6 cylinder engines and blow the SS models away by turbo power …
well is that some kind of air induction at the front of the bonnet bulge on the gt model?? i hope so. maybe even an intercooler?? we all know what that means
LOL at you people and the ugly stick. Get over yourselves and remove your colective penises from your Holdens exhaust pipe…
The car hasn’t even been released and you are out in force. Lets just wait and see whether the VE will still be as good once Orion is out.
I have to agree with you Axe.
90% of the front and rear is a good decoy, the car is still 10 months away from release.
Look at the defined vertical crease under the cover on the rear end of the 6th photo for instance.
The Ford Falcon is unfairly criticised more than any other manufacturer in the market, and why, it is an Aussie icon and deserves it’s place without the predictable scepticism.
I for one will be trading my BA in on an Orion, the smooth ride and that beautiful Aussie six alone should sell it, not the superficial rapping.
GO the xr8 i wonder what mags they designed this time as these mags i see look like the xr5 maybe have biger ones for xr in that same concept.
Blue Blood…
Well said! exactly what i was thinking…the reality is the BA falocn was a better car than the VY. having said that, the VE is not a major leap above the BF11, so Ford is in a very good position to become class leader with orion. i also think the car is looking quite attractive..i bet orion will look more unique than the VE which is very plain in many styling aspects…even the short front overhang looks weird on some angles in the omega and berlina spec models.
Barney Rubble said
June 16 2007 @ 12:58 am
So much for all the dribble of the orion being a ‘fresh ‘ design compared with VE, looks like a reconstituted AU once again…ugly stickX2
[/quote]
haha, the VE front looks a pug nosed BA falcon! and
the ugly stick is waiting above the VE…
New ford will be good i seen the u.s. pic its been confirmed. ha lick my stick now holden.
Talk about drible…
rumors are they want it released by the end of the year.
I hope they have it right by then!!
i really like the gt modle but im thinking its the force 8 because it doesnt make sence why they would leave the spoiler out. plus these are the best pics ive seen so far
its a gt u can see it in the forth picture on the grill.
Plus the bonnet buldge looks bigger
then wers the spoiler BOB
in the boot, it fell off
:P
yea thats what i thought but i wasn’t shore lol
Holden fans are wankers……….It has taken Holden 60 years to finally design a car !!!!!! and let me say the VE is a nice car but NOT worth a billion bucks, it really shows that all previous Commodores where a piece of crap to spend that much money and get a car that is maybe a bit better than a five year old Falcon is a laugh !!! I hope the new falcon is a success……….
Holden is already losing big bucks on there billion dollar baby
How about both Ford and Holden are shyte. TOYOTA Aurion most powerful family 6, most fuel efficient, best looking, best value for money, best safety rating, sold internationally.
paul i think that would change when the new falcon comes out again…. it always have the best 6 on the market, most power, most torque!!!
Hey Paul,
your right!! I don’t know why I haven’t see it before. A Toyota Aurion that’s it!!
But hold on…
Where’s the performance version?
even the TRD whatever has been watered down because anything FWD with over 200kw suffers torque steer.
Most powerful family six?
not in torque figues or in suspension and brakes – ever see an Aurion towing anything bigger than a box trailer.
Most fuel efficient?
Well it is a smaller car. And don’t let anyone tell you differently.
Best Looking?
Looks are subjective but side on it looks awfully like a Camry. I wonder why.
But if you like driving something with as much street cred of a fridge so be it.
Best value for money?
up to $50 grand for a rebadged Camry. I don’t think so.
You got me on the safety rating and international sales but I think the Orion will change that.
At the end of the day Paul if you want an over priced Camry, by all means get one, it’s your choice.
However if you want an Australian car designed by Australians for Australia, with the history, legend and sub culture that comes with the brand I suppose the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore will have to do for us laymen.
QUOTE = Where’s the performance version?
even the TRD whatever has been watered down because anything FWD with over 200kw suffers torque steer.
Well I heard torque steer torque steer torque steer about the Aurion with 200kw on front wheels… Im sure they will work something out to get that power down effectively just like that with the Aurion! And watered down? They dont want ridiculous hype, but latest news is it will be 240kw and 400Nm… thats only slightly off the XR6T which is half a litre more in displacement, with the trump car for the TRD Aurion being that it weighs a good 150kg+ less with the same power!
QUOTE = Most powerful family six?
not in torque figues or in suspension and brakes – ever see an Aurion towing anything bigger than a box trailer.
Ive towed 700kg+ boats with a V6 Camry in the past… sure Falcon and Co are better options with higher low down torque, but the Aurion still has reasonable levels of torque… remember it is lighter as well. Brakes… I dont know where that came from, they all have similar braking power. Suspension its agued isnt the best on the Aurion, but it still handles just as well as the competition!
QUOTE = Most fuel efficient?
Well it is a smaller car. And don’t let anyone tell you differently.
Smaller yet feels still quite large inside…. class leading fuel efficiency, 9.9L per 100km, worth losing 2cm of cabin space!
QUOTE = Best Looking?
Looks are subjective but side on it looks awfully like a Camry. I wonder why.
But if you like driving something with as much street cred of a fridge so be it.
Looks are subjective but the VE is dog ugly and the current Falcon is outdated (awaiting new Falcon). Side on? Not really, it could do with some bigger and more stylish rims, the stock ones dont do it any justice.
QUOTE = Best value for money?
up to $50 grand for a rebadged Camry. I don’t think so.
Up to lol nice to point that out… how about $35k for like 6 air bags, BA, EBD, ESP, Air conditioning (wouldnt ususally mention this but Omega doesnt have it!), 200kw engine, 9.9L per 100km fuel efficency, $100 or so service for the first year or two (cant quite remember), class leading reliablity… and about a dozen other features I cant remember. Base model wise the Aurion IS the best value for money, dont deny that! As you go up the range, the gap shortens between the compeition, for example the SV6 is starting to be comparable to the SX6… but still Toyota offers other features the others dont; quality, reliability etc.
QUOTE = At the end of the day Paul if you want an over priced Camry, by all means get one, it’s your choice.
Ive just highlighted that this ‘overpriced camry’ makes your VE and Falcon look like highway robbery! It shares the central frame with the camry (which isnt a bad thing, cheaper parts duh), the rest including the interior of that central part is unique. And guess what… an Aussie helped design the whole thing! What is overpriced is asking $35k for the VE Omega… no A/C, a pre-historic 4 speed transmission, the least powerful engine at 180kw, 2 airbags (correct me if Im wrong)…etc
QUOTE = However if you want an Australian car designed by Australians for Australia, with the history, legend and sub culture that comes with the brand I suppose the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore will have to do for us laymen.
As said, an Aussie helped designed the Aurion… the history I get is bad on the Commodore and not great on the Falcon. The VE is that well built for Aussie conditions it doesnt come with Air Conditioning!
Dont get me wrong, Im eagerly awaiting the new Falcon… I use to be a Ford fan and out of the two ‘locals’ (if you could call GM and Ford locals)… its the better option for mine, even the current Falcon I rate over the VE!
Toyota Aurion, hahahhahaha
Pretty good if you driving white goods.
Most pwerful 6 in it’s class YES
Shame it’s good 5/8 of fuck all of torque and you have to rev the crap out of it to get it moving at any rate.
It is well equiped though.
Aurion was voted last out the Commy, Falcon, Magna and Aurion in a recent test by a car magazine.
Look out billion dollar flop the Falcon is coming
Paul- TRD is not going up against the XR6 turbo… why you ask??? its because it not a base car,,,a standard model its a specail like a GT, GTS…or who i think as a special car that is a 6… the typhoon the only car in its class in australia, a specialised 6 cylinder proformace vehicle… so lets get real…. 240Kw supercharged aurion VS the 270kw turbo charge typhoon…who will win…lol!!! and when you think about it the XR6 turbo in say a year will be a bout 260-270kw when the aurion comes out!!! lol!! and the Typhoon will be packing a punch with about 300Kw.. so bring it on TRD aurion!! lol that fingure of 240kw will look so little and crapy with a year!!! lol!!
Sorry i meant the new orion XR6 Turbo will have about 260-270Kw… so i think it will be close between the TRD aurion and the XR6 turbo till the new falco comes out and bye bye to the TRD
QUOTE = Sorry i meant the new orion XR6 Turbo will have about 260-270Kw… so i think it will be close between the TRD aurion and the XR6 turbo till the new falco comes out and bye bye to the TRD
We will have to wait an see… but eitherway its my understanding that the TRD Aurion isnt all about hair raising speed, its being placed against the Liberty GT etc… combination of performance, driveability and luxury.
Ha! so true about the Toyota John Holmes. I have had a drive of V6 Camrys in the past and you do have to rev the crap out of them to get a decent amount of power. Whats the point of better fuel economy when you cant get yourself out of trouble when need be. Toyota’s will always have the boringness factor. I have owned Falcons, Fairmonts in the past and since went to a Mazda which I am about to get rid of because nothing gives you the power and ride of a locally built Ford. Glad that Ford is finally taking the fight to Holden, and I am sure that you have every driver with half a brain in Australia behind you!
^
Depends which V6 Camry you have owned. I have owned a number, different engine have different characteristics, V6 Camrys with the 3VZ-FE engine have 90% torque at 2000RPM while the 1MZFE (the more recent engine) needs to be revved harder. But this is a completely new engine, its 3.5L as opposed to 3L, it has nearly 50kw more then outgoing V6 Camry, same story with torque. Read the reviews and take the Aurion for a spin… you can rest assure to get peak performance you will have to rev it, but under normal driving it has no issues and returns great fuel efficiency.
Paul,
There is no doubt the Aurion is a stong package and the falcon is long overdue for a face lift.
I to have owned a Toyota and it , as all makes had it’s strengths and weakness but when I wanted a bigger car the Camry fell short.
I live in the NT and tow a 1500kg ski boat 120km to a dam with five people on board at 130kph very, very comfortably in my BA Falcon.
My BA is not “Shyte” it’s never broken down in 4 years the engine is still strong and quiet, the 4 speed is still smooth and refined and with the sports pac body kit, suspension and 17in alloys it is still a handsome car.
It’ll be hard to part with when the time comes (yes it will be an Orion).
It is a shame though and a reality that most parts on an Aussie car are imported. I fear even the beloved ford inline 6 days are numbers with rumors that Fords new V6 will replace it eventually. But I just feel I’ve done the right thing supporting the Australian car industry when buying one, as arguably one does when buying a Camry or Omega.
And that, in the end can be what it comes down to for alot of people, not extras or styling or power but how a car makes you feel when you get in it and drive.
It’s refreshing to have an arguement on a Blog Paul without getting too personal – well done!!
I’ve gotta say, the Falcon GT is looking HOT! Thats what I’m talking about! It’s aggressive, styling looks fantastic, the bulge is back! I think the bulge has become an ‘item’ now with the Falcon V8s (XR8 & FPV’s), sort of the same like the shaker was to the XY GT because the reason for the bulge was to fit the V8s in. Since Fairlane, LTD is no more, I think FPV will be able to splurge on the Force 8 some more, getting back to the luxury/sports market hopefuly. Keep up the good work and good on ya caradvice.com, more recognition should be given to these jokers on their site!! SP
I really like the force 8 it’s sporty and luxury does anyone no if ford will get rid of it in the orion modle?
I really hope they dont
paul i still cant figure you out,
you go on about saving fuel then you hit out in wanting great power. want to save fuel buy the gas model falcon, yes ford are still the only one to offer a decent “green” option that actually has power. and anyway the falcon economy isnt too far behind the aurion anyway and i think the new falcon should at least match it.
i have had the power/torque debate with you before so could you please stop calling the aurion the most powerfull.
also ford also runs what is possibly the best 6sp in the world so dont get too excited about your toyotas gearbox being the “ducks nuts”
and all of this aside dont forget the falcon is essencially 5 years old and come the release of the new one and all of toyotas hard work in trying to come out of the shaddows might be undone
QUOTE = you go on about saving fuel then you hit out in wanting great power. want to save fuel buy the gas model falcon, yes ford are still the only one to offer a decent “green” option that actually has power. and anyway the falcon economy isnt too far behind the aurion anyway and i think the new falcon should at least match it.
Ok I cant figure you out! The aim of an efficient engine is to get max power with minimal fuel.. so your first sentence here amuses me. As for the gas model, well I dont know about the Falcon but I worked out with the gas Omega that it would take some 5 years to recoup the extra cost of a gas powered cared (I think it was $4k+ more for the gas Omega). So its not worth it especially when you lose power with gas.
QUOTE = i have had the power/torque debate with you before so could you please stop calling the aurion the most powerfull.
Lol its a fact is it not? ITS THE MOST POWERFUL. Im not saying it has the most torque.. it has 200kw of POWER, the Falcon has 190kw of POWER and the Commodore at its peak has 195 kw of POWER. And Ive fowarded my arguments in relation to torque, the Aurion certainly isnt lacking in this department which is evidenced by taking it for a drive or if your lazy reading the many non-biased reviews (ie anything but Wheels or other mags associated with Holden).
QUOTE = also ford also runs what is possibly the best 6sp in the world so dont get too excited about your toyotas gearbox being the “ducks nuts”
Yes I am aware, its one of its strong points… a reason why I previously said I like the Falcons!!! But the Aurion trans is also very good… you cant have a poke at the Aurion in that respect, only the VE Commodore which offers a 4 speed. Sad part about that is they have the tranny for it, the SV6 has a I think a 5 speed… they are just screwing over the Aussie public or more so fleets who dont care about pay $35k for that crap.
QUOTE = and all of this aside dont forget the falcon is essencially 5 years old and come the release of the new one and all of toyotas hard work in trying to come out of the shaddows might be undone
I have acknowledged that as well! The way I see it, and Im not being biased here, CURRENTLY the Aurion is the market leader (not in sales Im talking for what they offer)… the Falcon is second, then the VE and last is the 380 (if we were talking base models only… the 380 would be ahead of the VE)… I believe this is the order even what the Large Car awards had them in. Once the Falcon comes out things will no doubt change and they will take the lead, they have had time to benchmark against the competition afterall and they offer a larger range of vehcles then Toyota.
Funny how Ford are copying Holden in a number of ways, in particular with the flaired guards. In regarding Holdens 4 speed auto, that is going very soon if you properly read all car news reports instead of only those with a car you like. Um and you think the VE will always run at a loss. The 1 billion spent on designing the VE will be covered by a years supply of Commodore’s being exported to the U.S.A not even including the other current and future export markets. The VE rules as sales figures have proven for over 10 years straight and you must think all those people and also the fleets would pick a vehicle if it was substandard. The Foulcan won’t change that. Remember AU(awfully ugly, BA (Bloody awful) and BF (Bloody F%$ked) Compared to VE (very, exciting, very enticing, very excellent ) or many others.
Oh and I forgot to mention the cylinder displacement on demand is coming inside 12 months as well as turbo diesel V6. You will find even more improvements in the VE series 2 due out close to orion foulcans release. Whatever Ford will throw you can guarantee the Commodore will trump it and the auriyawn. Check mate.
In reply to John.
Mate…Holden didn’t invent flared wheel arches!
If anything, they copied them off BMW in a try-hard attempt to make the Omega look like an M3!
I love the clever antonyms…how cute.
does anyone know what this model falcon will be called? i remeber all the mags labelling the BA the ‘AV’ falcon before it came out, anyone got any idea
Yeah flared arches… and ummm the Falcon ones looks reasonable, the Holden ones are a disgrace.
Now for the rest…
QUOTE = In regarding Holdens 4 speed auto, that is going very soon if you properly read all car news reports instead of only those with a car you like
I have read around… havent heard anything. And if they do, it doesnt change anything… Holden have been screwing people over trying to earn every cent they can on a budget with a 4 speed tranny when they have a 5 speed, with a 180kw engine when they have a 195kw engine, when they have air conditioning but they make it an option, when they have stability control but dont make it standard, when they have 6 airbags but dont make it standard… list goes on. Why didnt they have all these in the first place? Because they were taking the Aussie public for a ride while the Japs give it from the start! Gotta ask yourself… whos side are they really on!?
QUOTE = The VE rules as sales figures have proven for over 10 years straight and you must think all those people and also the fleets would pick a vehicle if it was substandard
No fleets mean everything. The reason why their private sales are so low, even when considering people do wait for the fleet cars to buy as they are cheaper…. has alot to do with your prviate buyers actually having to put their hands down their OWN wallets and use money they worked hard to EARN. Given this, you look for the best car without caring if its image is ‘Australian’ or not. Thats why Toyota and Co get alot of private purchases while those private buyers who want Falcons etc wait till they are cheaper because given their lack of value for money it wouldnt be wise for them to buy new! And on fleets, they often give employees only two choices… Falcon or Commodore. That has a major effect as to why these two models have around 80% fleet sales. They often dont offer Toyotas etc because they want an ‘Aussie’ image…. yet for example the Aurion is by far better then the disgraceful Omega, which as a result isnt shown when it comes to sales (although combined Camry and Aurion sales are doing very well).
QUOTE = Whatever Ford will throw you can guarantee the Commodore will trump it and the auriyawn. Check mate.
Omega : 0-100km/h in 9seconds
—————————–
Aurion : 0-100km/h in 7.4seconds
‘Check Mate’… not to mention Ive owned V6 Camrys from last century that were quicker then this new Omega. POS.
This driving machine looks like the new Ford Mondo!
At least the new Falcon will come with standard air-conditioning…unlike the Commodore Omega! What a bloody joke.
Must agree that VE wheelarches are terrible, huge. Look like they were designed by grade 4s… “Aw, Sick! They’re so big mate!” The Orions seem much, much more subtle thank God.
On topic,
thanks for more great pics. Orion Falcon is will be on my buying list. The Ford inline six is already a wonderful motor to drive on country roads, and smooth on city visits. Economical, too! (8L/100km country)
I have driven the new Toyota Camry and other Tojos quite extensively, and Paul is right to suggest they are good. However, for me the Ford is hard to top for where and how I like to drive… can’t explain it, every Ford we have owned has been loved, and every Falcon I have sold I have missed. No other brand, except my old LandCruiser, has imbued such loyalty.
See you at the dealer’s in late 07/early 08!
Il stick with the xr8 toyota are a quick perkly lil car very popular o.s.
But the have some quick perky fords too like a mini ba lookin thing rs edition.
Forget about it…
i dont wanna start a riot here but i dunno something just doesnt sit right with the aurion being in the same class as falcon and commodore. it may be my overpowering sence of australian pride and my distaste to anything from toyota, or maybe its the fact its FWD. i dont know ive never like toyota, i never plan to own one, and althought im sure im gonna cop a beating for it i dont have any eveidence to suggest why, its just a gut feeling.
HOWEVER… everyone has their own opinion and labelling a car something that is either wrong or distasteful i feel is rather stupid. if you have a gut feeing follow it… even if it is for toyota.
It’s seems they’re doomed if they do and they’re doomed if they don’t.
Before every release car enthusiasts say they want to see ‘revolutionary’, ‘cutting edge’, or’fresh’ design from the latest Comm or Falc and then if either company comes up with anything bar a A6/5series/E-class(usually the 5year old or mid cycle car from these brands) mash up they start screaming ‘ugly stick’.
BA looked like a six year old Audi and VE is derivative of BA. Australian designed cars are never going to be either ‘revolutionary’ or ‘cutting edge’ as Ford and Holden seem to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the Australian consumer wants vanilla and conservative with perhaps a few go fast bits tacked on for the sports models.
Anyone who looks at Falcons or Commodores and can’t see how comprehensively derivative they are of truly ground breaking design houses like those of BMW and Merc has their head in the sand and is probably the kind of person who wears the Australian flag to sporting events (even those where Australian’s aren’t competing).
Let me clarify what I meant by VE being derivative of BA I only mean this in hte sense that VE resembles BA not that VE studied BA and took styling cues from it.
I needed to vent a little. The new Falcon looks good, but none the less somewhat derivative, this is always going to be the case and is not necessarily a fault all the major brands look to other designers for inspiration and direction and look at ‘trends’. This studying of trends is vital. I think that the front lights are reminiscent of the Honda Accord Euro(no bad thing). The rear lights which can be seen in other photos more clearly(not the ones avalable here) look fairly original with a dip mirring the one found in hte headlights. This is bound to be met with cries of ‘ugly stick’ as it is seemingly original.
I’d like to see Falcon’s and Commodores take some huge risks with design of course huge risks rarely pay off but they can eg Chrysler 300C.
One problem that plagues falcon’s of the past in particular is that they lack a ‘face’ that evolves. The progressive change from VN to VP to VR VT etc shows an evolving face whereas falcon seems to be constantly searching for a ‘look’. The aesthetic transition from XF to EA was fairly smooth but ED to EF was more of a jump and then EL to AU, what a shock. Companies need to telegraph design cues to the consumer so they do not come as a shock.
BF to Orion looks set for a fairly smooth transition and maybe Falcon has found a face they can call their own again (like they did in the XY to XA change over of the 70s).
so where is the new orion?
Their pics of the ba/bf
Julian,
in a way you are spot on. the designers are too scared to make any radical changes to their cars appearences. ford tried it (with the AU) and nearly got shot by the public. it was cause of the shock factor you talked about because people did not immediately recognise/relate to it. thats why the AU11 had new panels to try square it up a bit. but on the other hand it could be said as the series that the XR6 took off a fair bit. people didnt mind that cause they wanted something that was a bit more distinguished from the base falcon.
I dont know how anyone can make decisions on looks at this point either. there are a few things you can make assumptions on but thats it. yes im predicting a more recognisable transition this time. for one i think they were just testing headlight changes with the BF11 to gradually work in the “slant” that this new one seems to have
Aston, ford suck, troy JUST TO MENTION A FEW OF THE JELOUS PEOPLE WASTING THERE TIME LYING, YOU GUYS ARE EITHER BI-EST OR JELOUS THAT YOU SUPPORT THE OTHER CODE’S WHO CANT COMPETE IN LOOKS WITH THE FALCON, WORST CASE SCENARIO EVEN IF IT LOOKED LIKE BA, THE BA WAS A SEXY CAR ANYWAY
the xy to xa was the the biggest change ford did..
Where the hell do all the Holden rejects get off saying that the VE is an original model!? Sorry guys but looking at the VE it kinda looks a lot like a BA Falcon! I’m sure that Holden had the original design planted away in their “brains” somewhere…
Holden are a weak excuse of a car! They aren’t even Australian any more! At least Ford Australia are capable of making their own engines and don’t have to import them in from the USA like Holden do.
Even if the Orion is a failure (i doubt) then it doesn’t really matter because Ford have a 6 cyl car that can kick every single V8, V6, and 4cyl that Holden GM have ever created! So stick that right up your dodgey looking Holden SV6 Commodore Tailpipe…
Judging by the photos… the Falcon (or at least the lower models) still doesnt have LED rear brake lights and I doubt it will have projector headlamps. Finer details still something to be desired.
Forget about it.
Holden and it’s supporters are one-eyed 20th century bogans and thats a fact, have you seen the people that drive new and used Holdens? they bloody wear ugg boots to the shops, what derelict bogans, get some style and substance…
Orion is literally going to $hit all over the Holden’s billion dollar bungle. Whoever said the VE looked ‘european’ – you have to be joking, to my best knowledge all the latest euros have curves! not f**king obese wheel arches and rectangular parts everywhere…
VE? typical fat American lard (why do you think GM want them so much?)
Orion? car for modern Australia.
So far i love what i c the ve commodore looks like a space ship the front is 2 high and chunky the new falcon looks like it has a sleek design ITS HOT
Damn straight! Holden have tried to combine a 2003 Falcon with a TS Astra, not a good mix.
And Paul, pull your finger out of your arse.
Ford have had projector headlamps since 1993! Just look at the XR6 or XR8 in the ED, EF, EL, AU 1-3 series! Last time I checked, they have projector head lamps… And who really cares about LED Tail lights! Whoa! Don’t wanna miss out on them!
And another thing, Toyota have ever only made one good model car, and that would be the Supra.
Its hot forget about it.
i like the new ve holden and i like fords but i havent seen the ford orion so i cant really campare it to the holden. Those picturs look like the bf the only difrence i see is the door handles and the front bumper the rest looks like the bf not that thats bad i love the bf falcon its very nice i love the gt and the xr modles there really hot. looking forwed to seeing the orion uncuverd.
ye your write it does look like the bf with difernt doors and a diferent bumper. does any one els thinks so as well.
The doors have a nice curv at the bottom and will be good once uncovered.forget about it…
IT alot different forget about it..
What a warmed over piece of shiit.
Hello, it’s AU all over again !!!
Gavin,
The DNA of the XA is distinctly Ford and the obvious evolution of the XY. Though there are notable and significant differences such as a proliferation of curves over more squarish panels on the XY the XA still maintained many cues from it’s predecesor such as the headlight arrangement and the hip line on the rear doors.
The first car in a new generation always carries many of the trademarks of the previous incarnation. The BF to orion looks set to carry on with this tradition.
It is to Ford’s detriment when they do not telegraph cues from one generation to the next eg the massive leap from EL to AU there was a jump from ED to EF.
This new Falcon looks pretty good so far. Here’s hoping they improve the build quality which is a major concern to consumers considering a private purchase and an area which has been notoriously poor on falcon’s past.
Ford sux,
how is this the AU all over again?
Geez there alot of one-eyed biased Holden Supporters here who just want to say, its ugly, its AU again. Usually this happens when they’re scared that it is a better car than their precious rebadged Opel’s.
Anyway from what i can see the Orion is looking very tough especially the FPV and XR’s. I really want to see drive train specs though. Safe to say ZF auto and inline 6 are staying but what is happening with the V8′s, will the Boss remain or is it a new engine, hopefully an Alloy block instead of cast iron to save weight I know ford have been testing that.
Ok for all those VE lovers, have a chat to AVIS car rentals, ask them how many problems they’ve had with VE’s, or NRMA and ask them how many calls they’ve had on them. The SS is the only good looking VE out there. The other models look out of proportion with 16″ steelies underneath those massive wheel arches, and the bum sticks up way too high.
And Ford aren’t copying Holden with the wheel arches, big wheel arches have been around for a long time. But if anyone is copying someone, its Holden copying the Ford Focus with those wheelarches.
Oh and the reason why there is no wing on the GT, is cos its mostly cosmetic at road speeds so is not needed on the test vehicles.
y the hell are there holden fans on this site are use scared fords better then holden
this car looks so tough the ve is going to look week compared to it.
yea i agrea with you BOB
paul,
I admit i looked to see if tails were led too. (just out of interest)
but i reckon ford has prob the 2nd best thing to led’s at the moment. their design at the moment (on all territory’s and from BF mk1 on) at a quick glance look like led’s. the light is scattered from inside the taillight using reflectors rather than the typical coloured diffuser cover. thus making a very clear light, and no or little interference from the sun
^
Yeah thats abit of a trend with the non-LEDs looking like that. But still I find it disappointing, it doesnt have quite the same appeal and its comes down to one thing… cost cutting. But Im not gonna crucify the Falcon over that, particularly when you have the E with a 4 speed tranny going about as a ‘new car’ in the year 2007.
* E = VE of course.
Fingers crossed the FPVs have the LEDs just like they have the Xenons now.
The main improvement I’d really like to see is a smaller steering wheel. The BF MKII Falcon is great in every feature apart from the massively huge steering wheel…
But even if they don’t do that, the Car is still gonna look hot as. :P
Long 1990′s nose and ancient dash to axle signify the fact that this is a reskin of the current platform…..
Even if the the styling is half decent, it will be impossible to hide the old proportions…
VE will have it all over this car styling and proportion wise, for years to come I’m afraid…
^
Are you for real? IMO the VE was a step back from the outgoing model in terms of styling, I honestly think the VE looks fugly, especially in base forms where its crappy features like a fat arse and large wheel arches are exentuated.
We all know that Ford is way better than Holden. We all know that only hooligans drive Holdens. We all know that Ford has always been and will always be the best car on the road. We all know that the only way Holden can win on the track is to run the Ford off the road.
The Falcon is better finished inside than the Commode. The Falcon looks sleeker on the road than Commode. By the way, commode is another word for toilet. Appropriate, don’t you think.
I have great faith in the design teams at Ford. I will also admit that someone dropped the ball when they released the AU, but they have more than made up for that with release of the BA.
I, for one, can’t wait for the Orion to hit the road. I will be trading in my XR8 for a new Orion. The only decision I have to make is…..XR8 or FPV.
of course youd say that, youre an aurion nut
Yes chopper thats why I am saying I rate the Falcon over the Commodore… Im a nut for logic. Something alot of people dont have around here, the Aurion is a damn fine car. The VE was a billion dollar blunder. The Falcon for mine has in recent history been the superior of the two in most aspects, I cant see this changing especially when considering that the current Falcon already has it over the VE, they aernt going to get worse just better.
i think theres more bias than logic in your reasoning
There appears to be a lot of padding under the front and back black-outs. At a guess I’d say the front and back is very rounded which I believe will soften the extent of overhangon the Orion. I do hope that Ford has included a turbo diesel in their engine lineup.
We seem to have a classic BMW-Mercedes comparison ala Commodore-Falcon. Have a look at the styling comparisons.
One thing that does stand out with the new VE Commodore is that it’s quite high. When you look out your rear vision mirror the VE looks like a 4X4, high with flared guards.
Post of mine must have been deleted or didnt come up… there is logic in most of my stuff chopper, Aurion is a quality car. Im eagerly awaiting the Falcon as I think it will be a true contender, the current Falcon is decent but being older lacks in some areas, such as airbags and stability control. The new one will be updated and provide better value then the Commodore which relies solely on fleets who couldnt care less about the car as long as its ‘aussie’ buying their crap.
When is fpv going to improve there engine kws,290 is so out of date,ive heard whispers the 08 gt,s will be 320kws,can someone confirm that for me,then il put my order in.
we wont know the offical figures until the release date of the new GT
Tony m
why would we want a turbo diesel falcon?
and can anyone please tell me what is sooo good about diesel? i dont understand it. yeah they are a bit more economical, but 9 times out of 10 diesel costs more at the bouser. also you lose power aswell (i know you gain torque but it doesnt make up for it). and above all that, doesnt diesel release more pollutants?
i cannot understand why car makers would invest time and money in to developing diesel engines for their vehicles.
the dj falcon produces 320 with a mild cam change
Yeah I too think why the huge amount of love for diesel when it doesnt do anygood for the environment (thats if is not biodiesle).
Falcon dont need a diesel engine, they already have LPG going for them. If people want diesel, than drop it in the teritory.
As for the pirce of diesel being expencive, here in SA is quiet cheap. ($1.20-$1.26 , while ULP $1.21-$1.40)
well i agrea with andrew about why making a ford turbo diesel. well what i say is if they bring out a turbo diesel they should drop the lpg. or they should make a lpj turbo that would be cool.
they are making a hydrogen turbo xr6. the got some funding from the gocernment and they are working on it
I agree with Paul on this, the VE Commodore has been released just under a year and has already outdated itself.
The newer Falcon Orion will be the outstanding competitor for the Aurion. Although Toyota has been named the world’s most reliable and most economical car brand. Ford is still going to put a large fight against them. And with the Falcon Orion they just might be able to out do them… Stranger things have happened.
As for Holden, the Orion is going to mop the floor with them. Sorry Holden rejects, but it’s true.
it looks like shit
azza your a dickhead aurion sucks balls like u hsv maloo worlds fastest ute what u got nuthin
Azza I wouldnt go so far as to say the Falcon is going to help Ford on itself… but they are in with a great chance with the Focus (esp the new Focus whenever that comes out), soon to be Mondeo (again a true competitor UNLIKE the Daewoo Epica to the Camry) and the Falcon. It would seem that Ford and Toyota are going from strength to strength while Holden is doing the oppositie, with a total of 5 Daewoos (Epica, Viva, Daewoo, Captiva, Barina) having had the unfortunate task of wearing the Lion badge. Currently all isnt extremely bad at Holden because fleets are holden them up and so are the taxes on imports, but if these variables change then they are up shyte creek without a paddle because what they offer to prviate buyers is sub-standard.
QUOTE = azza your a dickhead aurion sucks balls like u hsv maloo worlds fastest ute what u got nuthin
Hahaha worlds fastest because no-one in their right mind gives a flying f*ck about utes… they aernt performance cars, they would have to have one of the worst weight distributions going around… not to mention no weight where it matters – over the drive wheels. Good for shoving tools in the back though.
holden might have the fastest ute but fords still beter thats for shore
But they don’t have the fastest ute…
They don’t have the fastest or best looking anything. Sorry but the way I see it, Holden started going downhill from the VT model and on.
Hey i want xr8 290kw or 320kw gt game over hsv.
Forget about it xr8 is 290kw this time.
^
Can you just ‘forget about’ the oncoming bus next time you cross the road.
So if thats true that the XR8 and FPV V8 Series are going up to 290kw and 320kw would that mean that the F6 Typhoon and Tornado will go up to 300kw?
Or will they go higher due to APS’ arrival in scene and making the F6 Engine up to 309kw in the Phase 2 Typhoon and Phase 3 Tornado in 2006?
Geeez mate you have some issues, split personality. Do you hear voices inside your head? You aernt that guy who has pics of Naomi Robsons head stuck to bikini models all over your bedroom wall are you… thought you got locked up lol
Paul you are right…. I do have a split personality, my medication has worn off so I get like this. I dont wanna ask for more though because see Im in jail and Im someones bitch, if I move Im going to get punished again… although I actually enjoy it.
Ohhhh k Tony, I thought so… hope you get better soon.
Bloody hell, I realise it’s very camouflaged but YUCK! I was really hoping they’d pull out something attractive this time. I want to see massively flaring wheel arches, short fat bonnets and super high windowsills. Someone take a freakin cue from Commodore. I hope they prove me wrong on launch day.
yes yes james’ i wish they could make a car just the way i wanted it aswell
have been looking on the internet and have found some interesting news. The 6.2 Ltr V8 is still under developement and can be made for strong displacement all the way up to 7.0 Ltrs. The power output for the 6.2Ltr is around 317kws and torque is 576Nm. The engine layout thatwe will see is a DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder. The engine block is deep skirt with cross bolted mains. The Bore diameter is 102mm centerline and a 95mm stroke. There will also be a 5.8Ltr/355in2 DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder V8 with the same bore size but a shorter (89mm) stroke. There are also rumors of a Twin Turbo variant going under developement with all V8 engines with direct fuel injection. If they come over here with in the next 3 to 5 years, expect them to have varible cam timing. Intake valve size is 2.10″ and 1.62″ exhaust. They will most likely be All Alloy!!! We asked for a real ford V8 and now it looks like we may just get what we asked for. Go the Blue oval. P.S, I think they have mistake the XR^ Turbo for thr F6 Typhoon and the new orion falcon looks the works, exspecially the GT.
Come on GT-HO
go ford
christine said holdens are dumb
it just looks like a large focus to me
I am concerned with the space saver tire possibility. I drive a taxi on night shift and while it may be perfectly safe to run that tyre from point of puncture to the tyre dealer for repair and refit I wouldn’t want to work a shift on one driving anything up to 500km.
Hopefully they remain an option and the full sized spare is still available while not revisiting the complete joke that was the AU with the spare in the middle of the boot effectively making the boot useless.
Ok, firstly, any Falcon designed in Australia, is a step above the Opel inspired Bomb-a-dore… tell me when did Holden actually make their OWN engine, I beleive it was the black motor in the VK.
The VE looks like a cross between an Audi, a 380 and BMW… a billion dollars to copy someone elses design doesn’t make much sense to me. The only thing ‘Australian’ about the Commodore is the Lion Badge (even that is probably designed overseas)
Orion should kick the VE out of the race… although we do live in a country that kept John Howard in power for so many terms.
The new falcon looks like an el falcon and the ba/f series falcon put together. Looks extremely good. With more powerful engines across the range (From Ben Before about the new V8 engines) and the new front end suspension set-up which is better then the current falcon and commodore and a more refined Control Blade IRS which is the best rear end set-up in Australia, not if the world. Add T/C, ABS, ESP and all the other goods and every car the is made in Australia and some in the world instintly look second grade. Then you have better interior, better build quility, more room, more equipement, more power and torque, class leading engine and better fuel economy. The BF is alredy a great car which is only marginly worse then the new VE, and the Falcon (BF) is 5 years old, once the new falcon comes out, the VE Holden range and the Toyota Aurion range (also HSV and TRD) will once agin, be second best to the all AUSTRALIAN Falcon. Go FORD, FPV and Lowndsey with the win a Hidden Valley.
hey does anyone know if the territory gets an upgrade? also is the falcon wagon going to live on?
yes i can guaranty you the terittory will et an update
well do you know how extensive it will be?
does the wagon get the chop?
Yeah the falcon wagon will continue and will have leaf sprung rear suspension. Which is good, because it doesn’t get wierd retarded looking camber like on the holden wagons. Which is why coroners use falcon wagons to carry dead bodies. The wagon will be more biased to load carrying (eg the Coroner market) with a boot which will be bigger than the territory (with coroner usage in mind), rather than trying to be sporty which is not the aim of a coroner.
Take a look on http://www.wheelsmag.com.au they have a video of the Orion Falcon dust testing. Of course return to this wonderful site after you have viewed the video :)
ugliest falcon yet. Ford has gotta do better than this or they will go bankrupt. this looks like another ugly AU falcon. Geezuz guys what has this Australian icon come to? Holden is gonna sh*t all over this one. Guaranteed.
I’ve always thought fords are absolute rubbish, This simply proves my theory.
how on earth can you tell ford is rubish you havent eaven seen it uncoverd yet and u dont know what fetures its got do how is it rubish
i think i can explain the lack of a spoiler on the gt maybe its not a gt at all maybe its the force 8 because it had the same bodykit to the gt just no spoiler case closed
Gwiz,
in a way you are right, the holden will shit all of its dodgy parts over the falcon. I mean all of holdens parts are just falling to pieces at the moment and any thing near them will be shat on as they let go.
Gwiz, your a moron. Ford have always been the ones on top it’s just that people have always seen Holden as the Australian built car. If you went out there and asked someone who knows very little about cars; “Where is the Ford Falcon produced?” The chances are they would answer USA. That is why people have always like Holden more. Where as facts have it, the Falcon is more Australian then what Holden has ever been. In fact Holden haven’t been made in Australia since the mid 80′s.
On another note, Ford have always had the better engines. And if anyone uses the point that Holden win more in the V8′s I will smack them upside the face! The V8 Supercars do not have stock built engines!!!
Daewoo………..ooooppss ……i mean Holden …….have already dropped the price of the VE. They wont make any money exporting the things as the exchange rate is so close. Anyway the Monaro was a failure over there ………….. Oh………the reason Holden are almost a complete Daewoo company is that they can only afford to put a badge on Daewoos as they wasted 1 billion dollars on bringing the Commodore almost up to date with the Falcon……and they still have a inferior driveline !!!!!
Man paul and the rest of you can suck my fat one, this is about ford and their new Falcon, you can fuck off to some other place and talk about you little shity toyotas.
Now i agree with those of you who say that the VE was brought up to just above the standard of the BA/F, but you hear about all of these car reports on the VE vs. BA/F, but you can not say that the VE is better cause the BA/F is a 5 year old car. i just cant wait till the new Falcon comes out then we can do some real test.
another thing that gets me is just because V8 supercars are doing well in the holden pits doesnt mean that holden is better in everything, each V8 supercar is worth about $400,000, now im sure if i had that sort of money to spend on my ford, it would be faster than any holden every made!
Cars are looking great and cant wait till they are released!
look out holden ford is rising again.
AH ,I wont take you up on your offer Boondy!
But I do agree with you on the V8 Supercars.
Plus when the BA first came out against the Red Army it won for 3 years running. Now the BF is having big problems with aerodynamics against the slipperier VE. However,with Craig winning the last race imagine how he will go with a NEW CAR!! Keep him away from Crash Bandicoot though. God I hate they CHEAT !
does any one know if the ford orion will be direct ingection because i have herd thats how they are going to get it up to 200kw. does any one know if this is true or not
You guys sound like a bunch of kids coming up with some crazy invention. What if this, what if that. Don’t you guys understand the game? Holden would be stupid to crush ford within a couple of years. They need Ford as Ford needs Holden. They will make slow releases giving them a slight competitive edge over Ford. It’s about sales and profit margins. I am a Holden boy but even I hope that ford doesn’t completely die. Ps don’t kid yourselves, Ford wants these pics released so expect more.
Toyota should focus on making squad car for the cops. Think about it, it wouldn’t need to be quick because anyone who is into cars wouldn’t notice it until it was too late.
OMG, thats the most disgusting thing ever. i suggest he ppl who think this piece of american crap is any kinda of good looking, i suggest u go buy the latest edition of MOTOR magazine the july 2007 edition, has a picture of the falcon without the bras. no way ford is gonna be anything compared to the VE, VE has clearly showed its compition in v8supercars, 14 out of the 17 races won. this is gonna be worse the then AU, its happening all over again just like the commodore VT era, holden smashed ford with their new VT while ford struggled with theyre piece of thing they called the AU, fords been playing catch up ever since…. they just dropped the ball. the new ford falcon looks like a toyota camry or something, a jaguar gone wrong, no1s gonna get used to that thing, i dont even wanna think wat the v8supercar will look like. GO THE BILLION DOLLAR BABY!
pubes_msr16
you are a dickhead!!!
the New VE is competeing with a 5 year old car!!! and the road version of the VE is only better the the 5 year old falcon in some departments!!!
The VE sixes are as good as the BA/BF saying that the Holden(chev) V8s are better then fords…at the Moment.The typhoon which is a 4 year old car is only 0.1 sec slower then the New holden GTS… so look at that they spend a Billion to be faster by 0.1…which is nothing!!! lol!!! what a waste!! the new falcon will be awesome!!!
so our 270Kw typhoon is as fast as your new VE GTS, what will the new 300Kw typhoon be like??? or the 320kw GT??? lol!!!!
correction for above comment: the Ve sixes are not as good as the Ba/BF sixes!
pubes_msr16
you are a dickhead!!!
Second that.
Mate who won 3 out of the last V8 SUPERCARS CHAMPION SHIPS ??
AHHH that would be Ford !! Marcos Ambros ,Marcos Ambros,and Russell Ingall. Craig would have won last year if CRASH BANDICOOT hadn’t of pushed him off the track .
pubes_msr16,
yes have proven you dont know s**t about cars or even V8 supercars. so here is a quick lesson…..
V8 Supercars…..
ford has won the last 4 championships (yes if you count the one they stole) All holden care about is winning V8 supercars. it is soo important them. they think if they win jokers like you will see it as them offering a good product. I know its true cause you just told us holden wins all the time (which is not true) in V8′s so they are good. both ford and holden both run the same set ups for parity reasons. THE HOLDENS RUN FORD SUSPENSION AND FORD BRAKES AND FORD DIFFS just to name a few. also aerodynamics has nothing to do with it either, they both have to achieve the same aero qualities in the body kits they run.
Cars……….
for 1 the Au was a heap better car than the VT/VX as for as vehicle properties are concearned. and if you want to count sales you can pull up the sales records on the AU falcon ute that will show the falcon ute shat on holden for sales. as for the BA/BF well you are really showcasing your lack of knowledge there. BF is 5 years old and it still beats holdens 1billion$ baby in 90% of areas. If you want me to list the areas just ask. and over that 5 years it has had nowhere near the recalls holden gets with in 6 months of their new one.
i would love you to reply to all the feedback you are getting on your comments too. i know you wont cause all the other ill informed holden fans always spit out stupid one liners like you and then go back into your hole.
YOU ARE THE REASON STEREOTYPES GO ROUND ABOUT HOLDEN FANS
everybody uses v6′s excluding bmw porsche and suabaru
and please dont count ur 4.0 inline as a compartative to bmw. oh, holden is releasing the 385kw 620nm v8 gts so dont rely on the gt and 320kw
I took my boat out fishing the other day, and was waiting to use the ramp. I had to wait while a 4WD towed a Toyota Aurion off the ramp because the front wheel drive could not get traction on the ramp !!!!! Only a 14 ft boat as well !!!!! i would hate to tow a caravan with an Aurion !!!!! Front wheel drive large car with weight on the back = NO FRONT WHEEL Control !!!! I bet the Aurion isnt as economical when as a Falcon when towing a boat or van as it has to be worked really hard to pull the weight…….
that ‘youridiots’ person is a fukin nob!!! i dont think that holden is bringing out a 385kw V8, if u read the post above there is a guy making a very valid point and thanks for pointing it out, holden needs ford and ford needs holden. holden isnt going to go ll out and bring out a massive holden engine and neither is ford going to bring out massive.
they are just going to beat each other buy 5 or 10 kw at a time
but ford looks promising, should be good!!!
My daughters friend went to a Daewoo …….sorry……Hoden Dealer to inquire about a Kalos……..sorry……..Barina…….he told her it was a Holden !!!!!! Worse still he told her that it was made in Australia and was one of the safest small cars around !!!!!! Product knowledge……….NOT !!!!!!!!!!!
cheers mate
If you want more cubes……….stroke it !!!!!!GM are you good at that ???? HAHAHA
Holden is influenced by GM so much its barely an original australian made car, they get there ideas from GM and then scab the rest off other cars like the flacon and the BMW, which by the way holden went way to far witht he flares, they are tto big just looks stupid!
i think you’ll find a very large portion of the commodore is australian-exclusive, to the point where holden has been delegated future rear drive architecture for the GM corp. And the appearnce of the car is subjective. This is just mindless rambling from both ford and holden fans, their both fine choices in my opinion, whatever floats your boat.
the new holden looks like 2 or 3 european/japanese cars thrown together!! i just hope the ford boys learn from there mistakes
when will all of the car manafacturers start to use the alternative fuel methods & tecnologies available to them instead of living from the vanity of the average person “keeping up with the jones,s
youridiots HSV are only makeing 100-150 of the 7.0L
So I see certain people have a low regard for diesel. It appears that it is less polluting than petrol, it’s the same price as petrol, it gives better consumption figures than petrol, it’s cheaper to make than petrol, it gives figures of torque for 2 litre engines that holden claims for its current V6 and based on our work fleet, which use 4X4 diesels its running costs are less. So why would you put a 3 litre turbo diesel in a car like the new Orion which has one of the worlds best 6 speed automatics. I mean with the current turbo Falcon and Territory you have already got the plumbing in place and of course why would you offer a car that could be sold in Europe where diesels are now more popular than petrol. And for all the petrol heads out there next time you watch Le Man have a look at whats winning and blow your minds out with the power and especially torque figures Audi is getting. You know this is the 21st century and the next engine package is going to be the hybrid diesel/electric.
The Yanky Ford fans are begging to get our Falcon turbo and V8 over there and I personally would love to see it.
As for “Youridiots” knocking the only REAL Aussie designed and built engine that exists today. My 2003 XT BA’s engine is still quieter, smoother, more powerful and refined than an 07 Omega V6 – You Holden guy’s got short changed from the Billion Dollar Baby.
I thought this was a discussion about the new Ford Falcon not a Holden V Ford sh*t slanging match
Your right of course Peter.
All this teasing from Ford is making us twitchy.
It is really hard to judge how it will look but I hope the XR lights will be unique to the model as they have done in the past.
Also the Turbo needs to look more aggressive and individual than the stock XR6.
The thing that cracks me up about the Holden fanatics out there, is that they all love “Holden’s Invention” the wheel arches. I was under the impression that the Ford Focus had them well before the Commodore?
I personally don’t like them.
Oh and for which ever person it was that said about Holden bringing out a GTS with 385kw or whatever it was (exaggeration). If they did bring that car out, Ford will still have it beaten. They’ll just take a leaf out of Holden’s book and import an engine or a whole car for that matter out of the USA. Thats right, Ford USA have just recently released the Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. 375kw of raw power, powered by a Supercharger. GM will be set back for a couple of years with the GT500 and the F6 Typhoon. And if I’m correct that now puts Ford with the Fastest running 6cyl and 8cyl engines on the planet.
why do i bother, your all a bunch of tossers who probably drive grey imports dressed up or run down wrxs painted lime green with louder pop off valves than exhausts and who (fact) never ever would be able to afford new commodores or falcons when they are released. luckily for u they both have atrocious resale value so u might just get lucky. mind u, u all sound as though u dropped out of school at 15. dole or apprenticeships. please choose
QUOTE = Oh and for which ever person it was that said about Holden bringing out a GTS with 385kw or whatever it was (exaggeration). If they did bring that car out, Ford will still have it beaten. They’ll just take a leaf out of Holden’s book and import an engine or a whole car for that matter out of the USA. Thats right, Ford USA have just recently released the Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. 375kw of raw power, powered by a Supercharger. GM will be set back for a couple of years with the GT500 and the F6 Typhoon. And if I’m correct that now puts Ford with the Fastest running 6cyl and 8cyl engines on the planet.
How about we just concede they both make shitty V8s. Lexus… 300kw out of a 5L V8.
john mentiond befor if any one knows if the ford orion will be direct ingection
thats pritty interesting does anyone know if it will be
Muz,
you are right on alternate fuels. i think the first manufacturer to produce a vehicle on something other than unleaded, will leave the other manufacturers back peddling. and i dont mean hybrids, i mean something with some actual power.
hopefully it will be ford leading the way with its new gas line up. they are renaming it (G6E) which suggests they have put some time into it and are going to market it aswell.
hopefully they produce a turbo gas motor. it would be a good investment for them. it would more than likely produce more power than the current turbo motor too.
ford need to do something like that to make people really stand up and notice
Andrew M, a friend of mine told me that LPG works extremely well in high compression motors. It appears that in Europe they are currently playing around with turbo diesel engines with LPG injection with fantastic power and torque figures.
As for some of the rubbish I have read regarding power and torque figures of the 7 litre Holden etc. Get real, the name of the game is power to weight and how you put it to the ground. And just in case some of you don’t get it, unless you have a bottomless pit of money, the next figure is litres per 100km.
Paul stop talking about toyotas, my step dad has two lexus’s a LX470 and an ES300, and might i tell you the 4.7L V8 was gutless and don’t even get me started on the ES 3L!!! the 470 had to have a whole new exhaust system put on because the old one was so shit there was almost no gas coming out then in one big blow it looked like the injecters were fucked. the Exhaust manifold was so shit, looked like nice 2 3\4 inch pipe but on the inside was no more than 1 inch.
And i laugh because the new toyota landcruiser cost $40,000 cheaper and only came ut 2 years later, lexus just brings out the toyota models earlier and charges $40,000 extra with a few more bits of fruit on it.
The ES300 was $80,000, it has got a better sound system and electric seats which is about it other wise it is a rebadged camry which is worth about 40 grand, so leexus can suck my nob, i’d buy a falcon anyday over a lexus!
Are you for real Boondy? The LX470 isnt a performance car, its a friggin 4×4 mate which weighs 2 and a half tonnes… lets see Lexus’ performance credentials in regards to V8s – 5L V8, 300kw, 440Nm, lighter then your heavier V8s, high revving, list goes on. Obviously its way more expensive but please spare me your Lexus/Toyota (in particular of their V8s) bashing based on a people movers performance because its quite ridiculous.
QUOTE = Ford have had projector headlamps since 1993! Just look at the XR6 or XR8 in the ED, EF, EL, AU 1-3 series! Last time I checked, they have projector head lamps… And who really cares about LED Tail lights! Whoa! Don’t wanna miss out on them!
And another thing, Toyota have ever only made one good model car, and that would be the Supra.
Do you even know what projectors are? Obviously not, no Ford has had them to my knowledge, certainly not since 1993 LOL!
As for LEDs, well I think the higher spec Falcons will have them, it would be wise on Fords part… but you cant say who cares, your forking out good money for these vehciles not for them to do some cost cutting on you. Also its fact tha LEDs improve the reaction time of people behind you, so its also good for safety.
And lastly your seeing ‘good’ in terms of performance, Id say the Camrys since the 80s (which features DOHCs… took Ford I think around 8 years later to get OHCs going and Holden till the turn of this century!) and have been known to last trouble free in excess of 300,000kms are a good car. Same with Corollas.
Anyway I dont mean to convert this into a Toyota v Ford discussion!
Paul
What! My parents own a ’94 XR6 ED. Don’t try to tell people that they don’t have projectors! They do! Ford have been making them since the XR series came into effect. So that clearly says that you are the one that doesn’t know what projectors are.
Tell me, what V8′s have Toyota produced that aren’t in a 4WD? Toyota should just stick with going against Nissan, at least then Toyota might actually win something… But then again, with the 350Z, even Nissan is too good for Toyota.
As for saying the bullcrap about Lexus with their “amazing” V8 ability, they aren’t all that good…
Lexus are just the same as Audi, BMW and Mercedes. If you own one, it’s just another way to say: “Hey look at me! I’m rich!” They have no power compared to Ford or Holden. Oh and maybe you should check out this site http://www.fordvehicles.com/mustang click on models then click on the Shelby GT500 model and it will say it has 500hp (373kw) of power with a supercharger and intercooled.
That is what real power is all about. Not any crappy front wheel drive Toyota.
Can’t wait till March. Spoke to my Ford dealer and he told me that’s when the new one is being released.
Going to order my new XR8 or FPV (haven’t decided yet) as soon as it comes out.
i want to see more pics
Paul,
i join the list of people that dont get hung up on LED’s. as im sure i said earlier for my money the great reflector design tail lights already in the falcon and territory have just as good a clarity as led’s, and with out looking closely you would say that they are.
and guys could someone enlighten me on what projector headlights are cause now im getting a bit thrown off
Hi,
If Ford refuses to option a diesel across the range, then it will be curtains much to all our regret.
I know they read these posts, so FORD place your trust in your loyal fan base and we will back you as long as you are innovative, and LISTEN to your CUSTOMERS because at the moment, who does not read the market correctly will pay the ultimate price.
Thanks
Ford can i have a boss v8 territory for christmas.
sorry but i still dont get the diesel thing. whats with it? i dont see recognisable savings nor big environmental +’s
nissan water pumps are a fucking menace to society and all rb 30′s can go to hell
Bring On The VE GTR 427 HSV…..
385Kw
Bye Bye Ford…
have you fords lovers forgotten that commodore has been no1 selling car for last 10 years and will again this year. it is ford playing catch up with holden and wont catch up with this car
Good pics
ill wait to see it better before
i make judgeents, but um “ford
crap” all holden did with the ve is
basically build a billion dollar look
a like of all the models, eg.
the tail lights mitisbushi 380,
the head lights ba-bf falcon,
and the flared guards well, while
the ve is a pretty good looking car and i
like the looks (i think its probably helps because it looks like a ba)i don’t think that the final product was that good after all, considring the price they spent on it.
QUOTE = What! My parents own a ‘94 XR6 ED. Don’t try to tell people that they don’t have projectors! They do! Ford have been making them since the XR series came into effect. So that clearly says that you are the one that doesn’t know what projectors are.
No I know what projectors are, Im quite suprised to discover that yes Falcons back then actually had them (albeit along with a dog ugly headlight design).
QUOTE = Lexus are just the same as Audi, BMW and Mercedes. If you own one, it’s just another way to say: “Hey look at me! I’m rich!” They have no power compared to Ford or Holden. Oh and maybe you should check out this site http://www.fordvehicles.com/mustang click on models then click on the Shelby GT500 model and it will say it has 500hp (373kw) of power with a supercharger and intercooled.
That is what real power is all about. Not any crappy front wheel drive Toyota.
Firstly please have a look what you just read, the likes of BMW, Mercedes and Audi have nothing on Ford and Holden? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease you have to be kidding. As for your example, the Lexus V8 produces 300kw and 450Nm from a NATURALLY ASPIRATED 5L V8 (so no supercharger like your example and 400Ml less dissplacement).
QUOTE = i join the list of people that dont get hung up on LED’s. as im sure i said earlier for my money the great reflector design tail lights already in the falcon and territory have just as good a clarity as led’s, and with out looking closely you would say that they are.
Each unto their own… all I know is that if I had the option of paying $35k for a car with LEDs or $35k with a car without them… Id choose the car with LEDs. Imo its these finer details that the base model at least Falcon and even Holden lose out on.
QUOTE = and guys could someone enlighten me on what projector headlights are cause now im getting a bit thrown off
Its hard to describe really… just look at a pic of the Aurion for eg and you see a round object in the headlight assembly, its a projector, focuses the light abit better.
youse are all fuckwits and you can go to hell
Drive a fucking ford or fucking walk
ve’s are a peice of shit and jap crap can go fuck themselfs if its jap or its front wheel drive it can burn in hell GET A DIFF or get a life
buy a rear wheel drive or walk on hot coles
that is falcon: the only australian made vehicle on the market so fuck you and have a nice day
hey ford crap you do know the ve commodore is the biggest fuck up in general motors history
it is mostly made from korean parts so you can call it a daewoo
sorry the koreans allready call it a daewoo
home brand is one australias top sellers
does it mean it is quality or cheap shit that you use and thow away HOLDEN IS A THOW AWAY PIECE OF SHIT AND ALWAYS WILL BE so when you say its a top selller think about the quality and who can afford it
Ok then Paul. An FPV Boss V8 Produces 290kw power and 530Nm Torque. There is no Supercharger and no Turbocharger in sight. The same goes for HSV’s LS series engines, as much as I’m gonna hate myself for this; 309kw power and 550Nm Torque. And once again no Supercharger or Turbocharger. I understand that Superchargers give more power to a car, but i can not imagine that it would give anymore then say 80kw of power to an engine. The engine would have to be immensely powerful already to have a surge of 373kw.
And the really funny thing about HSV’s “ever-so-powerful engine” is that it is only just slightly more powerful than Fords 4-5 y/o Aussie built engine, which is also 0.6L smaller.
Holden might be the number 1 seller in the country, but I could almost guarantee everyone that they aren’t going to well overseas.
Speaking of overseas, I heard that Ford Australia was going international next year. And they were releasing the BF model Falcon in the USA. Just a rumor though.
A reminder TOP GEAR returns tonight . New Series !!
7.30 tonight SBS .
Ford America is buliding a new family of petrol fueled twin-turbo engines with four-cylinder, V6 and V8 powerplants. Known as “twin-force”, the technology will debut in the upcoming Lincoln MKS flagship sedan due in 2008 and will eventually filter across most of Ford’s lineup.Who knows if the new falcon will get the these new motors.In addition to the turbos, Ford will also be adding direct injection tech, which will increase output and improve fuel-economy further.Ford will also be introducing V8 engines with cylinder deactivation, similar to GM’s displacement.To read the whole story go to http://www.motorauthority.com/.....l-engines/
‘Cman’ do you know what your talking about…
You suggest FWD’s dont have a diff : WRONG (You obviously have little knowledge about cars)
You say that the Falcon is the only Australian made Car : WRONG (380, Aurion, VE…)
QUOTE = Ok then Paul. An FPV Boss V8 Produces 290kw power and 530Nm Torque. There is no Supercharger and no Turbocharger in sight. The same goes for HSV’s LS series engines, as much as I’m gonna hate myself for this; 309kw power and 550Nm Torque. And once again no Supercharger or Turbocharger.
The Boss V8 produces 10kw less with more dissplacement… the HSV engine produces 9kw more with a whole litres more dissplacement. Furthermore, the HSV engines at least would have to be one of the most unreliable V8s in the world. I think we also have to consider durability here, I could get 300kw out of a Camry if I wanted to… but it would last 1 week. The Lexus with its refinement will produce plenty of power much more smoothly then these local brands (the HSVs V8 makes the car shake at idle as the engine tries to rip itself off its mounts!) and will do so for many trouble free years!
paul the VE is assembled here, but more than half of it is bult overseas.
even the glass comes from china!!!
^
Lol yeah I know alot of parts for all of them aernt exactly Australian, but its still made in Australia… with made for me meaning assembled. This is open to interpretation of course. And I doubt the Falcon is 100% made of Australian componentry, so this leads me to believe ‘Cman’ uses the same interpretation of ‘made’ as I mentioned.
It’s not anymore actually.
The Falcon since the the BF range has been importing its seats from the USA… There is probably more, but i don’t think anyone cares, considering the engine of the Falcon is made and assembled here in Australia. It is probably the same story with the Aurion as well. So much for what I can about the Commodore though… LS engine… pfft!
Arthur,
weel dont get too far ahead of yourself with your wish list on a 427 385kw. i think holden has to make a V8 first before you can expect a 427.
Ford crap,
yeah you are just another one of those simple people that holden blinds into thinking that they are good. sales doesnt mean they are a good car. one main reason holden sells more numbers is because they have a high turnover of models, meaning holden makes you feel inferior sooner cause your car is out of date so quickly, and people like you will get the ego thing going and have to run out and have the new one with different headlights. the 5 year old falcon is 90% better than holdens brand new 1 billion$ investment so ford would have to sell their new car without seats and bumpers for holden to be a better car (seriously).
Andrew M its unfair to accuse Holden of that. All of them do it some just do it better. Post WW2 the vast majority of manufacturers have done the same thing. It’s simply good marketing and a by-product of consumerism. At least Holden have mastered the art of creating an organic flow between models. This is one reason they are destroying ford in terms of sales and popularity.
I think Holdens success of the Commodore has alot to do with blind loyalty. You just have to look at their sales, which are mostly to fleets, now those people getting these vehicles would have a choice between the Commodore, Falcon and even sometimes the Aurion… why on earth would you then go for the crappy Omega!? Its the only explanation, people have loyalty and that over-shadows the crappiness of the car they are getting.
I also think the Commodores days are slowly coming to an end, the Aurion is eating away at sales they cant afford to lose given the lack of success of their other brands such as their Daewoo line up and the new Falcon Im thinking will blow them out of the water (the current model is still selling without many airbags and DSC… so expect a surge in sales when all these features become available at a competitive price!)
ford have all the paper filled out to use the ford us gt engine. that produces 410kw. if hsv would use the corvette engine fpv would use the amercian gt engine blow hsv out of the water, but i would like to see that because ford australia would go for the fastest four door car title AGAIN. i would love to see that on top gear
Bob, I’m with you mate, the USA Ford GT quad cam 410kw is the way to go & heaps better than anything Holden have. Holdens R8 6 Litre pushrod jilopy is antiquated. I would just like to see the new fORD XR8 with more flared gaurds and compacted up a little in length.
This is funny….
My older brother (the sad sap) is an avid Holden Fag… I mean man, we were having the ‘great engine debate’ the other day, and He tried telling me that the new V6 is Australian made….. what a fool.
It seem that Holden fans believe that if their company changes the literage from 3.8 to 3.6 and changes the name from ‘EcoTec’ to ‘AlloyTec’, that constitutes a completely new engine…. what a sorry but of people these are…. I mean how far can one bury their head in the sand?
Holden can’t design and can’t build, although they can sell, which further displays how sad this country is.
If I was stupid enough to be waving the red flag, I’d be very very concerned about the next 100% AUSTRALIAN Falcon.
^
Yeah I think alot of misinformed people think the VE Commodore has a new engine as well as a result of Holdens advertising making it look like it was all new… yet the most crucial component, the engine was from the previous model.
To Bob and Rod, guys dream on… there is no way they will be bringing out engines like that for FPV or HSV, that would completely destroy the differentiation between your $60k FPV and $1?? Ford GT, not to mention these gas guzzling V8s days are slowly coming to an end, more reason why such a risk in bringing out more powerful engines wouldnt be worth it.
Martin, what are you saying it is unfair to accuse holden of in relation to all manufacturers doing aswell? sorry didnt get that bit.
was there something wrong with saying holden doesnt make a V8 or the part where i said they had a high turnover of models in comparison??????
Bob,
out of interest what size is the V8 you are talking about is it the supercharged one?
Paul, i dont think V8 days are coming to an end. sales are actually up there. but what i would love to see is ford refine and boost, well if they have to supercharge their own boss motor that would be better than jumping in the same boat as holden and import a motor. they should build some recognition with their own aussie V8 and people will start to notice and become loyal to it (thats if they do a good job of it)
mikey and paul,
yes holden can sell you cant deny that, they could sell ice to eskimos
Im a ford fan but gyse in case you dont know holden’s aloytech and ford’s bara engines arnt made in australia there made in america. Sory to say it but you holden fans stop saying its biult in australia when its not. its a rebaged gm motor if you dont believe me do some reaserch on it befor you say its made in australia.
^
Well maybe you should look further into Ford’s Barra engine. It is made here in Australia, as is the Boss 260 and 290 and the F6 Turbo engine as well. All engines that have something to do with the Fairlane, Fairmont and the Falcon are made here in Aust.
Ford USA is yet to play a part with the creations of Ford Australia.
So much for what can be said for Holden though.
Woah…210+++ comments WTF!!! This Milly guy, complete tosser, both FOrd and Holden make their 6 cylinder engines locally, and import their V8′s from what I know. Clealr has know I dear what it (milly) is on about.
I get the vibe that you people think that the Ford V8 is locally made, I am unaware whther that is true, and could not care less. The bottom line is, the Ford V8 is smaller (in displacement), can produce more power (kw and torque, more economical, and is also a hell of a lot moderner and advanced. Holden use an ancient OHV/Pushrod POS! FOrd use a tipically advanced and smaller QUAD CAM well engineered engine, with a much better transmission and will have an even better chassis, gearbox, and more power on the ORION you fools!
All of you Holden and Ford nuts seem to throw Kw and Nm numbers around as if they are the “bees-knees”. For crying out loud, it’s power to weight that counts. Holden and Ford have the same problem, they are heavy cars and need high output engines. Ford has tried to off set it by using a 6 speed close ratio auto gearbox.
If Ford can reduce the weight of the new Orion by some 200 kilos, what out Holden. And just imagine if Holden reduced the size of it 3.6 V6 to 3 litres and used the technology that Audi used in its new Golf with a 1.4 litre Supercharged/Turbo engine.
When I read some of these articles I’m trying to figure out if they are fare “dinkum” or “baiting”. It’s as if mine is bigger then yours and all that rubbish.
I believe from what I have seen that the new Ford Orion will be very different from the VE Commodore which is good for the Australian market and hopefully for the world market. Australia makes some of the best cars in the world; whether Ford or Holden.
Just to answer for Damo, the Ford V8′s are very much made here in Australia.
Just thought I’d clarify that!
Great Pics!
andrew
yes it is supercharged. its just the ford aust engine with a huge supercharger on it.
i thought that the 5.4L was assembled here but the parts are from us. because the 5.4L is an amercian engine
No unique to Australia. Parts sourced from around the world. USA doen’t make much anymore.
The Rods come from Germany I think.
Here is something to read.
Ford buffs know that this name was first used on a special engine fitted to the 1969 Mustang – the Boss 302. This revered engine shares many uncanny similarities with its modern-day heir. The Boss 290 delivers 290 kilowatts at 5,500 rpm, the same iconic power figure in kilowatts the original Boss 302 had in horsepower along with the first XW Falcon GT 351 on its 1969 release. But the 520 Newton metre torque figure launches the Boss 290 into a class all its own.
To fit the Boss 290 without compromising ground clearance or stifling airflow, a special power bulge bonnet was factory-designed and tooled, creating an unmistakable level of authority on the street.
The Boss 290 Block
The block is cast-iron which makes it exceptionally rigid. It is three times stronger than aluminium for extra durability and refinement under high horsepower and torque loads. Cast-iron is more stable over a wider range of temperatures and there is less movement at critical sealing points for superior resistance to oil and coolant leaks. Ultimately, it’s what is used for V8 Supercar engines.
The engine has an under-square bore and stroke ratio that delivers the flexibility, fast response and strong pulling power from low engine speeds expected from a high-performance V8. A forged steel crankshaft maintains strength and refinement under high power and torque loads. Each crankshaft undergoes a special balancing process at Ford Performance Vehicles prior to assembly to match the special Boss 290 piston and conrod combination for exceptional refinement and reduced stress on components at all engine speeds.
Locally-sourced high-performance tri-metal main and big-end bearings are specified for extra durability under higher engine speeds and peak power and torque loads. Each main bearing cap is precisely located by two cross-bolts, two vertical bolts and two vertical locating dowels for superior location over six bolts. That means superior durability and refinement under high performance loads.
Each conrod is re-engineered to match the stronger pistons and floating gudgeons. The conrod big-ends are separated by a controlled cracking process before main bearing insertion. When reconnected, this creates a multi-ridged join unique to each conrod that is exceptionally strong and virtually invisible.
Locally-supplied high-performance pistons with domed tops lift the compression ratio to 10.5:1 on 96 RON PULP for improved engine response, efficiency and fuel economy under light throttle loads.
The Boss 290 Heads
Twin overhead camshafts per bank with four valves per cylinder to produce a deep-breathing, high-performance engine for exciting and consistent power and torque delivery right up to the red line. The heads are cast in aluminium alloy to minimise weight and to reach the optimum operating temperature faster. They feature an improved Cobra R design with a straighter, better-breathing inlet port.
The camshafts are hollow for reduced weight, less inertia – and faster response. Sealed, high-quality timing chains are lubricated by the engine’s oil supply for long life. This means a major reduction in maintenance costs compared to timing belt replacement and eliminates the potential of engine damage through a missed belt change. For critical engine joins, special high-tensile bolts are stretched under torque for maximum strength and extra resistance to loosening.
The Boss 290 Intake
The inlet manifold is manufactured in Australia with tuned length trumpets to match the straighter inlet port of the latest head design for strong torque at lower engine speeds, accessible power at everyday speeds and deep breathing at high engine speeds.
A 75 mm throttle body with drive-by-wire linkage eliminates the noise and vibration path that a mechanical linkage generates as it enters the cabin. The Boss cast-alloy plenum cover is made in Australia to meet the engine’s specific deep breathing requirements without compromise. The Boss bonnet pressing was tooled to accommodate this design. The Boss shares the dual ram air-intake system.
The Boss 290 Build Process
The Boss 290 engine is meticulously assembled by hand at Ford Performance Vehicles on the only V8 production line in Australia, a $1.5 million investment that has already paid dividends.
By building our own engines, rather than importing a fully-assembled engine developed overseas, Ford Performance Vehicles retains ultimate control over the development of engines to answer the unique needs of Australian performance car enthusiasts.
To deliver the solid muscle at low engine speeds that Aussies expect in a high-performance V8 while maintaining the free-revving, deep-breathing feel of a thoroughbred sports engine, Ford Performance Vehicles has developed a unique engine that has no equivalent in all the Ford world.
On this high-tech carousel, manned by technicians who previously honed their skills hand-building the previous Windsor V8s, each Boss 290 engine is carefully assembled from bare blocks and heads.
A pristine environment, our assembly line has more in common with a surgery than a factory. Indeed, to see our technicians huddled over an engine is truly reminiscent of an operating theatre. The latest computer-controlled dual-nut runners are used for the critical fastening and torquing of the heads, conrods and main-bearing caps. Far more sensitive than manual tightening, they are programmed to react instantly to faults in materials and parts, sending an instant alert to their operator.
As a result, the line has enabled Ford performance Vehicles to adopt the latest world-class practices for our industry; not only in quality control but occupational health and safety too.
The end result is that the Boss 290 is one of the most powerful yet cost-effective V8 engines built anywhere in the world.
hey did you guys see this about the possible re release of the cobra name plate to coincide with bathurst?
http://carsguide.news.com.au/s.....m=CG_email
Bob,
if you say the 410kw is the ford aust engine then why do you say its from the US GT? they dont export the Aust V8 yet.
to every one… the ford V8 IS MADE IN AUSTRALIA and it is the only V8 that is. just because it has the same displacement as a V8 they have in the US doesnt mean it is the same.
they designed the V8 here.
the reason it is an odd size is because the boss motor is made of like a 351 block and a 302 head to make it lighter.
i suppose thats the short of what missile was trying to put forward aswell
People should know that the for GT sold for more than $250k.
And puting the GT engine will hike up the price alot.
Who would buy a falcon for $250k. Oh and lets not forget the 4MPG!
check this out.The Barra engines are a family of I6 and V8s assembled by Ford Australia since 2002. The V8s are built in the USA by the Ford Motor Company and are shipped un-assembled to Australia, for assembly at the FPV Factory
more info here
http://www.answers.com/topic/ford-barra-engine
^
Lol yeah the point I made previously, its not going to happen… people pay big bucks for all that power (and the chasis etc) they are not going to put it in a $60k FPV and they certainly wont even bother putting it in a $100k FPV (because it wont sell).
And Andrew.M, Im talking long term… sure they are up now because they are offering more features, more power and cheaper prices (namely the SS). But they will be going down as soon as people realise that yet they offer value for money in short term but long term put a massive hole in their wallet for fuel… in a recent test the SS got 11.4L on the highway!!! More then the locals 6s, city driving got 17L. Now in an age where people are starting to reconsider 6s youd think the V8s are going to start to decline.
I think the local manufacturers should start implementing the use of cylinder shutdown systems, I think I once read something about Holden “CONSIDERING” the use of it, but that usually means maybe in the next decade! LOL, but I think it would be seriously good to see Mitsu or Toyota, or even Ford to offer it on the V6′s, that would definetly drive a few sales IMO.
Hey Andrew thanks for that re- Cobra. However ,I was told its going to be 50 only White & Blue stripped GTs ,released for Bathurst this years to celebrate 30 years after the 1 + 2 win for the Coupes and they shall have 220 Kws.
I got in contact with a friend of mine yesterday who drive a VW Passat turbo diesel. It’s his company car. City Highway driving he is averaging 5.1 litres per 100km. I had a drive in it and it really goes, especially when you over take. I read recently that Ford will not, I stress, will not be added diesels to the new Orion. A pity, I thought it might have helped in its competion within the Australian and European market. I have just read the latest peice on the new Mondeo and guess what, the turbu diesel is a much better car that the turbo 5 cylinder petrol with 165kw.
andrew
what i meant was they export it to us(aust) unassembled like dave said its on the fpv site there was a video of them making it not sure if its still there.
Yep the USA do send SOME components to Australia, some components are ex Australia ,Germany ,ect.The Cams are from CROW CAMS here in Australia ,as the manifold.
i just want to say that i heard the f6 is gonna have 300 kw and the xr6 tubo is gonna have 270 and the xr8 is gonna have 290 or 300 kw and theres ment to be a v10 geting produced
thats the biggest load of crap i have herd all day who told u that.
i dont know the name of the guy who told me that but i think he was a black rapper (50cent)
now seriously,
Paul i still dont think V8′s will die off and certainly not soon. people who buy V8′s dont buy them with fuel savings in mind. they buy them for the unmistakable sound and power. people buy V8′s cause they are a V8.
Missile,
did you make a typo when you said the cobra will be 220kw? i think so. i heard it to be 320kw
Tony M or someone…
could you please explain the diesel thing to me. i dont get it. yeah better fuel economy and thats about it. isnt that stuff worse on the environment too? so why would they invest money in developing something that runs on a fuel that will eventually become obsolete.
For my money its gas (LPG) all the way at the moment. these systems at the moment give little if any power difference, will halve your fuel bill and is a shite load better for the environment. and above all LPG has more potential than even unleaded.
Dave,
I dont think that the statement you pulled up on the boss motor is very correct. the motor does not come to Aust as the article suggests (in the form of a “kit” like a model, to say). sure they may source a couple of parts from US but a lot of parts do come from right here. also i believed it was designed here too, correct me if I am wrong though.
yep, sorry was 320 . Heard the same ,I think more collectable than the last 40 th edition .They sold fast and now there are 198 of 200 left of those .
holden is so much better that cobra engine it will never reach 320kw u dumbshits ass rapping mother fuckers
hsv worlds fastest ute hahahahah see holdens new engine 385kw hahahah u suck balls
to bad ford arent as good on v8 supercars u suck balls winning 1,2,3
What A load of Junk a pig with lip stick
but look closly at the lights in this pic they look light they are positioned there
fhttp://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/orion_caradvice_25_820.jpg
holden rules,
so what are you saying ford are better at making cars than competing in V8 supercars? (when compared to holden)
QUOTE = Paul i still dont think V8’s will die off and certainly not soon. people who buy V8’s dont buy them with fuel savings in mind. they buy them for the unmistakable sound and power. people buy V8’s cause they are a V8.
Yeah Im aware of that argument, but fuel prices are going to hit a point where its doing to deter alot of people because having a petrol guzzling V8 is going to put them into the gutter! Im sure some already are abit put off by it.
Paul, well for starters it hasnt detered people yet as i told you before that sales were actually up. and i guess we will have to let time show where they are at in say 5yrs. bring on an LPG V8. that would be interesting. (gee i must be starting to sound like an LPG ambassador now he he)
Lol yes LPG is the solution to all the worlds problems! But as I said, sales are up as a result of various factors which manufacterers have exploited to boost sales (such as offering more features). And sales are up all over the board in every sector! But yes time will tell!
Andrew M, the problem with our fuel, both petrol and diesel is the level of sulphur in it. In Europe that level has been reduced dramatically, unfortunately not yet in Australia (our governments are too busy collecting taxes to notice the rubbish going into the air). But I do believe that diesel is cleaner than petrol.
The trouble with the gas argument is that the car uses more gas than either petrol of diesel so on the bases of fuel efficience, it’s not that economical. But I believe, if we were to use a high compression motor like a diesel it is more efficient. Note what I said before, governments collect taxes on the bases consumption; the more you use the more they collect.
hey paul look under the bonnet of the 380 and the aurion what does it say ill tell you MADE IN JAPAN
so they are not an australian made car are they
and paul fwds dont have a “diff” they have a transaxle and cv’s
Andrew M I was talking about turnover.
I don’t understand all this talk about how ford should do all these remarkable things to blow Holden away. This isn’t the movies and the falcon isn’t realistically likely to come from the brink of obliteration to destroy the competition. As the falcon gasps for air submerged in an increasingly competitive market Holden continues to perform on the world stage.
As for all this $#!T about Ausie engineering, Holden have done more for Australian design and engineering in recent years than Ford Australia could even dream of.
As a Holden fan this is in some ways blasphemes but I hope that the falcon does become competitive again. Holden vs Toyota just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Martin and other die hard Holden “supporters”.
Get real, do you really think Holden is so strong that it can’t take a dive in the sales race. When the Commodore was first introduced in the late 70′s the motor journos were say how it was the car of the future, it was the bees-knees in design etc etc. Trouble was it had an engine that drank petrol and people liked big cars. Ford brings out the XD Falcon, it’s a big car and it used less petrol. End result was Holden lost its place at the top of the tree.
Who buys big cars, try leasing firm. Where do you buy big cars cheap, try the auctions where a Falson or Commodore of 2 years with 40,000km sells for $20-25,000. Nearly a 30 to 40% drop in value (go to Fowles) if you doubt. Who buys fuel efficient cars, Mr and Mrs average, not petrol heads who seem to Kilowatts is a measure of their prowes. And just in case you think I’m wrong, you will note that Corollas, Mazdas, Astras, Focus etc are selling for 5% to 10% under their new car value.
It’s time to stop smoking the tea leaves and wake up to yourself. Both Holden and Ford are on a knife edge (read on what is happening in America regarding GM and Ford and the Billions of dollars they are losing) and the cars they build and design need to meet a very small market base.
As for the “drop kick” who tries to compare Holden and Fords in the V8 supercar series, hey mate, this is a Silhouette class of racing, the only difference the Falcon and the Commodore have is body and motor everything else is generally the same. Get real.
Tony M,
you can have economy and economics. the economics for diesel still dont stack up though. gas would (as a rule) cut your fuel bill in half. you will find that the milage out of a gas car would be the same as a diesel, that is because the gas tank is bigger (to the tune of about 20L). where gas makes up for it is the much lower price. and if gas were to be developed further (such as direct injection etc) im sure that consumption would come down too.
and for taxes…. yes i realise it is a fixed excise “based on consumption” but at the moment gas has no taxes applied to it (apart from gst of course). and in 7-8 years when it does feel the full effect of tax that excise will still only be half of that, that is applied to diesel and unleaded meaning that gas consumption could be double that of say unleaded and you would be still only paying the same amount tax.
as for pollution what you say about the sulphur levels in europe being lower makes sence, since i know they have much tougher emissions standards than us, and yes it is probably only a matter of time before we follow, but for now and even when sulphur levels are reduced gas will still be healthier for the environment.
what i was originally saying is that i dont know why ford would want to spend money on developing a diesel motor for their falcon when they have for e.g. the gas setup working for them at the moment (to keep the greens happy) and they are developing the hydrogen motor as maybe a long term solution. and yes i think eventually diesel motor will phase out once suitable replacements are here. therefore any money spent on development of diesel wouldnt have enough time to pay itself off
Martin,
im still not getting it…… how were you talking about turnover. this is your QUOTE………………from Andrew M
“sales doesnt mean they are a good car. one main reason holden sells more numbers is because they have a high turnover of models,”
Quote…….. responce from Martin
Martin said
July 3 2007 @ 8:46 am
“Andrew M its unfair to accuse Holden of that. All of them do it some just do it better. Post WW2 the vast majority of manufacturers have done the same thing. It’s simply good marketing and a by-product of consumerism. At least Holden have mastered the art of creating an organic flow between models. This is one reason they are destroying ford in terms of sales and popularity.”
and now in responce to your latest comments….
what are you saying the falcon isnt competitive? lets not forget that when ford released the Ba falcon for a while ford were beating holden in a lot of monthly sales reports it the gong at the end of the year that people remember though i suppose. anyway that aside sales IS NOT A DIRECT REPRESENTATION OF A GOOD /COMPETITIVE CAR. the current falcon has it over the commodore in 90% of areas right now. yes im talking about the 5year old falcon! and dont forget the falcon was still winning the awards 4yrs after its release….not a competitive car??? go figure.
and what exactlly have holden done over the years for aussie engineering????? anyone??????
well they have imported all their motors over the last few years so rule that one out.. and the chassis too so there goes that idea. and the mcpherson strut suspension… yeah thats great engineering there (not)
Paul you have just proven my point that people who buy V8′s dont buy them with economy in mind, by saying they are reeled in by the features. what you are saying is V8′s are good value and there is more benefits in buying a V8 to worry about consumption
can any one get the link that daniel posted to work?
Andrew M
If we were to assume that diesel engines will have a short life as an alternative to petrol engines, then yes why would you develop a diesel in Australia. But we currently have a 2.7 litre twin turbo diesel that is cuppiled to the 6 speed auto we use in Australia in the Ford parts bin, so why wouldn’t you put that combination as an option in the new Orion. As I said recently, I don’t believe Ford will put a diesel in the new Orion. If they ever add a diesel it will be via a directive from the States, who control the purse strings.
Andrew M
When I said turnover I mean between models. I know that’s not the correct use of the term but you used it in that context when you said “because they have a high turnover of models, meaning Holden makes you feel inferior sooner cause your car is out of date so quickly”.
Engineering achievements include the co-development of the Monaro and the creation of GM’s RWD platform. It’s a good thing for Ausie engineers and designers to get global recognition. Ford Australia doesn’t get any more international than NZ and Tasmania ;o)
And I know it wasn’t directed at me but I thought I’d just add for the record that I don’t regard the V8 supercars as representative of the commodore/falcon quality or engineering standards. It’s just a bit of fun.
+ The Efigy has won the latest North American Concept of the year award
what have they done to further australian automotive nothing. they use everything from other people creating a platform and a 2 cars thats nothing. they have made no car parts to further the industry. fords front suspension in the territory has was a benefit to the industry
Martin,
i still havent heard any of these marvellous engineering achievements for the auusie automotive industry. well yes they just built a chassis WELL DONE HOLDEN YOUR FIRST ONE. and as far as your wording goes as…. “over the years” i suppose we can rule out the VE as that has only just landed and what you said indicates your impression of holdens committment to engineering was from their previous models so can you name some great achievements they have had apart from their new chassis….nope, that would be about it. and i wouldnt think you would mention the VE anyhow because when you do , along with it stands out the mountain of recalls.
when you compare ford to holden here shows what ford has brought to aussie automotive FIRST AS STANDARD….
driver airbag
passenger airbag
remote locking
remote boot release
power windows
wheel mounted radio/ cruise control
all of these are just simple/basic things these days that are expected on even a $15K car
and not to mention the suspension on the fords that has shat over the holdens for years.
NOTE: this is all pre-BA, not to mention what it alone brought along
oh and not to mention the territory either.
as for exporting… what does that count for? all that means is GM are in that much trouble they have to start taking back from who it has leant to for years. and actually setting up ma product to export shows the company has less interests in the local area that supported it in the first place..AUSTRALIA.
and to follow up on the turn over of models thing do you not agree that holden turns its models over quicker than its competitors?
oh and what did The Efigy cost again??
Nuff’n screams bogan more than me in my Black V8 crank’n slayer. And the best bogan V8′s are Fords. You’ll find more angry, bearded mulleted dudes in Fords anyday. I don’t think an Aurion pulls off the bogan look to well for me. I’ll keep me Ford. Cheers and Beers. Hahaha
Logan the Bogan, while I would have to agtree with you the the Ford V8 would be the ideal car for bogans due to its awesome exhaust note, I would have to say that Holden ute drivers EASILY are the most boganish!
I would actually go so far as to say with quite a degree of surety that Holden ute owners have the highest number of bogans per owner of any other car or category anywhere!!
:)
me names bruice
QUOTE = hey paul look under the bonnet of the 380 and the aurion what does it say ill tell you MADE IN JAPAN
so they are not an australian made car are they
What is your point? I havent said it was and I couldnt care less, I want whats best for me… 200kw engine with a 6 speed transmission vs a 4 speed transmission with 180kw… oh but its ‘Australian’ (People have said that they dont even make their engines here either!).
QUOTE = and paul fwds dont have a “diff” they have a transaxle and cv’s
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? The term ‘transaxle’ is used to describe the assembly which contains the transmission, drive axle and the DIFFERENTIAL into one unit. FWD cars have a differential, the original comment and yours show a lack of mechanical knowledge (Which I dont have that extensively myself!)
QUOTE = Paul you have just proven my point that people who buy V8’s dont buy them with economy in mind, by saying they are reeled in by the features. what you are saying is V8’s are good value and there is more benefits in buying a V8 to worry about consumption
No thats not the interpretation I would make… they are providing more features because its a cost vs benefit thing, peopel consider the cost (ie fuel costs) over benefits (such as power and now features). By offering more features they are hoping people will see more benefits which in their mind outweigh the costs associated with such a car.
I was really hoping that the new Falcon would borrow its styling heavily off the Mustang. But this does not appear to be the case from what we can see.
Does anyone else like the retro look?
They could have also done a retro XY or XA looking car.
hey people…. i love to hear about the GTSR 7 litre V8 as a ford fan…you ask why would a ford fan like hearing this… well if they are going to put the top GM engine in a Commodore, ford should put there top engine in the Falcon… anyone for the 410Kw 5.4 litre supercharged V8 anyone??? the Ford GT40 engine, or even the 400kw V8 from the 2007 GT500KR??? LoL at holden…. i have heard the thing will only do 4.7 to 0-100km…what that?? the new typhoon should be around that mark anyway!!! lol!!! with the 300kw turbo 6!!! lol!!! or will we have to wait till 2011 the 40th annievsry of the GTHO pharse III… for the big engine… i cant wait for when ford finishes devoloping the 5.8 and the 6.2 litre V8s!!! then i say Bring it on Holden/GM!!!
It’s not how much grunt a cars got but how it uses it. So when I read articles about kilowatts and engine capacity all it tells me is guy (a) says he’s is bigger than guys (b) etc. If you don’t understand then look at the latest supercharged Lotus, 200kw with about 600 kilograms of weight doing 4 seconds to 100 kph.
What does this have to do with the new Orion, simple, if Ford can take off around 100 to 150 kilos of weight from the new Orion then it will be like having an extra 50 kw of power. This means greater acceleration, better fuel economy and of course more desirability as a lease car.
Oh yer, for all the people who have been bagging the overhang of the new Orion, do you remember the VL Commodore, great car on the race track. You see that overhang becomes part of the aero package.
Paul,
this is what i said……
“what you are saying is V8’s are good value and there is more benefits in buying a V8 to worry about consumption”
you said my thought was incorrect and stated this
“By offering more features they are hoping people will see more benefits which in their mind outweigh the costs associated with such a car.”
now come on you cant honestly say what you have said is pretty much the same thing as what i have been saying.
LETS PUT THIS OUT THERE FOR A VOTE…… who believes the above sentences mean the same thing?
VE?… Wheels car of the year that got given to them last year. So stop milking that! No one cares!
The BA Falcon won 3 large car awards in a row including wheels car of the year, but you didn’t see Ford bragging about it every second of every day! Holden are a bunch of know-nothing morons.
They cannot produce their own model, they have to steal it off of other car models. And somehow they still made it look terrible!
Ford are the supreme against Holden. Nothing will change. Understand you biased sack of crap?
Holden have and always will have it over the falcon any day
holdenrules you fucking cheater just like hsv toll team
Hey all you Holden die hards, I just read that the new Corolla has for the 4th time this year out sold the new VE Commodore. Gee guys you better go out and buy some more Commodores because Mr and Mrs Average prefer smaller cars, you know the ones that use less petrol and sort of have a high resale at the end of their lease.
The XR6 Turbo also won the “Best Sports Car Under $57000″ category.
Great photos, looking forward to seeing the new Falcon on the road. Just one question, what the hell are “Wing” mirrors?
Mr Holden (retard)…
Holden have never had it better over Ford… unless you include Fleet sales.
But that means nothing in performance and looks.
The only reason Holden haven’t collapsed is because all the stooges like you out there are too loyal to betray a car company that is “truly made in Australia”.
You are a fool, and the same goes for anyone else out there that thinks Holden really outdoes Ford.
hey you holden fans,
i dont mind you guys visiting this site as long as you can put up a good fight for holden. at the moment you are just doing silly little name calling “holden is better than ford”…. WHAT THE??? do you care to elaborate?
you are obviously simple one eyed people (your names suggest that).
PLEASE TELL US ALL HOW HOLDEN IS BETTER THAN FORD
WHAT?? YOU GOT NUTHIN
okay guys i just want to lay down some simple rules…
until now Holden haven’t changed there look for about 20 years or so… and the new VE isnt anything special at that…
people who think that the BA/BF was ugly…. you must be jealous or something cause your ugly scum holden looks shit next to the falcon…
the xr series looks so fucken tough with the bonnet bulge on the 8′s and it seems holden realised that so they brought out the “sornkels” on their monaro…
hahaha looks like they went lookin at and XA to get that idea.. fucken wanks…
Underneath ford rapes holden to the grave..
we put double wish bone suspension on our rides so fucken holden do…
back in the day with the 5ltr they copied our blueprint…
they run bmw trannies…
chev engines…
in the v8 series they use our diffs…
it seems as time goes on they are becomin’ less of a commodore the only thing orginal is the badge and they can have that shit…
the ve just looks like some fucken excuse of a TONKA truck…
and not long ago they shut down their biggest production line in melbourne and 1000′s of jobs were lost casue they bulit another factory in mexico to save some coin…
“HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA” BAHAHAHAHAH don’t make me laugh
You tell’em Jacob!
azza is a dickhead whos the one that exports way more more cars than ford. 50% of of holdens that r made goes over seas and what is the car that heaps of manufactures have.for example vauxhal they have the neally all our cars they have they even have the new hsv clubsport, vxr.A another manafacture pontiac they know have the new ss,and they also had the monaro.chevolet has the monaro to,opel has the captiva,all the astra range and buick is getting the new ss as well and another brand which i forgot has the rodeo so what australian fords do u see overseas.
also all the holdens in the magazines eg wheels,motor they have a way better star rating than the shity fords i wavent seen a ford that has better yet
ps bob is gay
HAHAHA 50% of Holdens made go overseas. For starters their biggest seller the Commodore sells 80% to Australian fleets, now considering this car would have the biggest impact already Im doubting 50% made go overseas. But on top of this many of their vehicles aernt even made in Australia so their COMING from overseas not going their. You really a tosser Holdenrules. Id like to hear one explanation from you tohugh, why is Holden the only half reputable manufactuer who is now resorting to Korean trash? (Captiva, Epica, Viva, Barina… and others). Holden are a joke.
holden rules,
i see why you like holdens… because you dont know anything about them. THE ONLY AUSSIE MADE HOLDEN IS THE COMMODORE RANGE.(some people will beg to differ but we gotta give em something)
the rodeo comes from isuzu (yes import) and the “all new captiva range” is also an import
WOW!!! holden exports one platform
as for fords exports you might want to count the territory which other countries are shouting for and the new falcon range which is heading over aswell.
one thing is when ford imports/exports they dont try to hide/rebadge what they are bringing in or sending out.
when the falcon gets exported it will still be known world wide as a ford falcon. and when a focus or explorer for eg comes here, it is still a ford focus and ford explorer respectively.
when holden imports for eg they get a daewoo (that closed up in OZ because people realised they were crap) and sell it as a holden.
i didnt know that chev gets the monaro i thought they were badged pontiac instead (but i may be wrong)
but any way it must be cheap for them to send their cars over there cause they would just leave out the parts that come from overseas anyway (50%). especially those weighty V8′s
and i agree with paul, i dont know where you get your 50% are exported figures……please tell
I’m not biased towards either Holden or Ford, but it’s obvious as hell to anyone reading these comments that “holdenrules” is just a misinformed little twat who spouts verbal diarrohea!!
Almost NOTHING of what he has said to date is true!
holdenrules is comparing the ve which is a new platform to the old ba/bf platform hes going to get a shock when the new falcon comes out.
check out this article from the Adelaide Advertiser. mmm…
http://www.news.com.au/adelaid.....10,00.html
When the AU came out it was described as one of the worlds best large car platforms. As yet the new VE platform has not been given any rating. You will note that the Falcon range has for over 10 years had fold down back seats. The reason the new Commodore does not have fold down back seats is because to do so would reduce the strength of their platform; Ford doesn’t have that problem. Platforms/chassis designs usually last atleast 20 to 30 years so the current Ford platform could last atleast another 10 to 15 years.
As I understand the changes to the Ford platform is to accomodate left and right hand drive.
I have just seen the Car section of the Herald Sun which has design pictures of the new Ford Orion. Looks pretty stunning and I believe will give the new Commodore a run for its money.
But like I have said before the small car segment is starting to grow and the big car segment is getting smaller. Ford has already reduces its production run (I believe they might start building the Ford Focus in Australia) but Holden has not. What am I saying, if the market changes to small cars Ford has already addressed its production run but Holden has not.
I do believe the new Commodore could have a similar fate to the Mitsubishi 380, good car but only bought by Mr and Mrs average not lease companies. I understand that Holden has had a 2% drop in sales since the new VE was released.
Prity sure its still selling well with fleets, that wont be a huge issue I think… but overall I think they are shooting themselves in the foot relying heavily on the large car market while cheapening any image they had of their smaller cars (2 star Barina, Viva, Vectra replaced for Epica and Astra being dropped?). Not the best strategy imo considering that market is only going to get bigger.
pretty sure holden should of realsed the whole range on new shit its been a year and there was no wagon, and no ute…. wtf is that
don’t think if it was a billion dollar baby they would of brought everything out at once instead of just the sedan fleet?
I hate it already. It looks like the wheelbase from a Focus was used and a Falcon body chucked on top. the rear overhang is terrible.
I am no Holden or Ford fan, but personally i think the Commodore looks more refined and less “rushed” i loved the BA and BF Falcon, They were a great design but i think this is reliving the AU all over again.
I don’t think any falcon will ever look as good as the EF Falcon.
this car is going to dominate the car market if it has other engines like a disel or some over form of fuel efficiencey. even if they dont it still will be the best car made in australia it will do what the ba did to the vy but better
But they already got the lpg they dont need disel
people think that disels are better at the moment because of all the european cars with it and audi winning la mans twice with a disel
http://carsguide.news.com.au/s.....40,00.html
have a look at this wholey fuck i’m gonna start saving they look so nice
quote=ford is gay fullstop ve wheels care of the year what u got nuthin
Boy I tell you we have had a lot more wheels COTY in recent years than holden has had. if all of you holden fans really want to defend holden then bring the real facts not personal attacks and not pointless exersises in typing that say thing like “ford are gay”……get a life retards
. NOW every ford fan here has to agree with me…….I want to see pics of the new falcon with the v8 supercar body kit on it
Bob said.
Diesels are the way for Ford. We have the new Focus with a turbo diesel (100kw with 320Nm torque, do you know these are the same power/torque figures of the trusty XF Falcon), there will be the new Mondeo latter this year and I hope Ford will have a turbo diesel in the new Orion range.
What people forget about LPG is that it uses 2 to 3 litres per 100km more than petrol, so in actual fact it does cost more in the long run. I have a friend of mine who until 3 months ago swore that LPG was the bees-knees. He has just started to have some problems with his LPG which is starting to cost big time. THe LPG conversion was done some 6 years ago.
ford is quality and holden is crap
there more picture on this site
http://www.caradvice.com.au/38.....-pictures/
I’m starting to think I should check this site more often! Thats the funniest yet stupidest slur of crap I have yet endured from anyone on here!
holdenrules, what kind of dip shit are you?
Chevrolet don’t have the Monaro! They don’t need it!
And what Australian made Fords have I seen overseas?
Well how about the successful named Falcon that got exported from here in Australia to the UK and the USA in the 1960′s?
The Falcon was a huge success! But Ford in the other parts of the world went with their own designs instead of Australia’s. Ie. The Mondeo, Sierra and the Mustang. All these (par the Mondeo) were around the same time as the Falcon, but they’d just rather their own design.
Which is why I believe that the Falcon and Territory will work overseas. Being that we are going to be receiving shipments of Mondeos and Mustangs in the near Future.
Oh yeah, how stupid are you again?
You’re comparing overseas sales between two companies, one that owns other overseas companies (Ford) and one that is owned by overseas companies (Holden)…
Just give up, you are an embarrassment to yourself, General Motors and this internet site.
Anyone checkout the latest Motor Magazine?
They have an article in it on Dyno tests done on the following cars diffence being on claimed and actual flywheel KWs.{ Sorry in advance if I do any typo’s}
Claimed Flywheel Test RWK
GTS 307 kw 302.4 245.2
R8 307 kw 299.0 243.9
SS 270 kw 291.9 236.2
SS-V 270 kw 285.3 232.0
Force 8 290 kw 282.4 229.3
FPV Force 6 270 kw 275.4 229.2
XR6T 245 245 kw 236.2 195.1
Interesting stats ? % difference KW difference
GTS -1.5 -4.6 kw
R8 -2.6 -8.0 kw
SS +8.1 +21.9 kw
SS-V +5.7 +15.3 kw
FPV Force 8 -2.6 -7.6 kw
FPV Force 6 +2.0 +5.4 kw
XR6T -3.6 -8.8 kw
Good Story Motor !!
Oh crap, I spaced it all out when I typed it.
Sorry if its hard to read now but its basicaly.The figures in order are.
Claimed,fly wheel test,rear wheel KWs.
The second section is % difference and KWs difference.
thers an artical saying that the orion will drop there inline six and change it to a v6
I can tell you the new falcon is a lot BF II with the territory steering rack. The sixes get a 5 sp auto plus better economy. The XR8 gets the 290kw engine and the GT gets around 320kw.
Oh yeah and the V6 will be in by 2010
why V6? why V6? why V6? they dont need it
hey missile thats a pretty good post u put there see the holden comes out on top again
p.s bob is gay eat it
Ford Australia are considering replacing their current in-line six-cylinder with an imported V6 mainly to ensure compliance with the Euro IV emissions laws being introduced on the 1st July 2010.
More Bloody emissions levels, I mean its getting out of control all this tree hugging. Ford in the US are going to be making their seats out of SOY!!!!! Yep because most cars in the world have about 15 kilos of petrolium based foam in it.
Quote “Soy is a very green, renewable resource,” says Debbie Mielewsk, technical leader for Ford’s Materials Research & Advanced Engineering Department. “Using soy-based foam gives us the opportunity to conserve natural resources and reduce our environmental footprint.”
Most automotive manufacturers today use 100 percent petroleum-based polyol foam. Each vehicle produced today contains an average of 30 pounds of petroleum-based foam. The total annual worldwide market for the foam is 9 billion pounds. Milewski says auto manufacturers research and development of renewable, more environmentally friendly materials to produce the foam, could have a significant environmental impact.
Ok when can I get one of those Cadbury cars that I can eat when I am hungry ????
hey guys, I love youse all (not homosexually. holdenrules is my friend at school and we are constantly arguing because im a diehard ford fand and he is… well you get the idea. anyways what u are currnetly experiencing is just a tatse compared with what I have to put up with. Like u guys when he starts pewing shit, and I get him with the facts he then spouts off saying “oh who won v8s last year” or “whos in the lead in v8s this year”. it shits me right off. only when I tyold him how the BA was the most successful v8 supercar and since NASCAR is considered a higher level of motorsport compared to v8s thats why marcos is still finding his feet and WHY he is better than the HSV/HRT drivers. he then goes on about how holden is exported to america and then I tell him ford has been in america for 100+ years
ok thats it for me i will be back, thanks to everyone for the defense of the mighty blue oval and as always GO FORD!
Hahaha,Holden Rules don’t get to excited on the stats,there’s a lot of variables involved that can change those results.Owners of other Fords have got more when they have put their cars on the Dyno ,I cant tell you private results from Holden owners as there normally too busy polishing that 307 KW badge on the back of their car ,or is that 299 or 302 KWs.Lol
Either way if they were right it just shows Holden are bigger liars.
Its similar I guess to the 1/4 mile times that are indicated in the Wheels & Motors on the cars, there not right either. Who gets a 14.3 out of a stock FPV GT ? Wheels !!!!!!!! Funny how Motor get 13.9 and owners that have had them for a while get more again.
missile you are dead right,
i meanthere are a lot of variables when they do testing and also a lot of conflicting out comes. firstly on the KW debate, i read some time ago that there is 2 different scales for measuring kw or hp and they differ to the tune of what the stats you showed us.
1-2 kw doesnt make or break a car.like wise with 1/4 mile times and fuel consumption.
you wont notice anything under 10kw of difference in a car especially when we are talking over 300kw.
with 1/4 mile times temperature and track surface have a big impact on that so dont brag if yours has .5 a sec better, and if a shit driver is behind the wheel dont even mention 2 secs
fuel consumption,
well i dont know how in the hell anyone measures this. i have owned fords and know of other ford owners that get 100k’s more outta a tank then what the specs say too. and then there are classic examples of cars like the captiva that get 100k’s LESS outta a tank. so to sum up that one dont be swayed by 1L a 100k’s either
ive heard of gt’s doing 315kw on a dyno seems like a lot more power then a 290kw fords says.
no bob it was never 315kw not stock anyway
Garth Tander is a cheat,just like his tool mate Crash Bandicoot. The whole OF HRT and the Tool Team should have been disqualified last year for blocking Craig and then pushing him off the track. Holden should hang their head in shame. They didn’t deserve to win the championship on cheating,but I guess thats the only way you guys can win.
to Tony M. what you say about LPG i strongly disagree. LGP use more so need to fell up more often. head and injectors fuck up every 100,000ks. more maintenance eg gas tank, hose check up before getting rego. it also lose 20% to 30% of you power. we don’t want that to happen if we want to beat the shit out of holden lololo. by the way i drive a LS1 250 HSV and it goes ok but everything is started to full apart now what a waste of money. go the FALCON
Tony M,
give me LPG over diesel especially in a falcon.
gee i hope you are not a maths teacher cause i dont see how you figure LPG costs more in the long run.
yes you are right LPG does use a few more Litres per 100k’s (thats why they give you a bigger fuel tank too) but dont forget its a bit under half the price. so therefore LPG motors could consume double the amount of a petrol motor and you would break even on fuel costs and saving the environment would still be a bonus. when you go through the maths properly, LPG in comparison will save you half on your fuel bill.
as for reliability i can assure you the conversion is nowhere as good as a dedicated gas model, especially if it was an older conversion. you see a lot of old conversions are pretty rough to say the least. i have seen them pretty much bust a hole in the inlet manifold, stick a hose in and silicone it up. plus you have the task of tuning the car to 2 different fuel qualities.
and to further the ask for gas is the fact the new falcon will be injected gas so therefore better economy and power.
ford needs to turbo a gas falcon to get people excited about it. a lot of people are scared of gas i think. and i admit i was too until i purchaced a dedicated gas falcon ute. i use mine for towing aswell and it tows/picksup than my mate who uses a 2007 turbo diesel hilux 4×4.
yes i suppose there is a bit more servicing with it like they pressure test the tank every 10 years,the fill limiting valve needs to be checked as part of scheduled servicing, but i dont know what you mean by hoses. i mean petrol cars should have their fuel hoses checked too.
oh yeah and if i remember toyota and holden both had recalls on their fuel tanks due to splitting. a gas tank has less chance of splitting/cracking
Pushrod said: I’m not sure what you are trying to say because it sounds as if you agree with me regarding LPG.
I was looking at another Ford sight this morning where they showed the new Ford V6. It looks like a great motor.
If we are to compete on the world stage then we need to look at using a world class motor. I believe that Australia makes some of the best chassis in the world and I believe we need to look at using more overseas components.
What I believe Ford need to do is start to produce (put together) small to medium cars like to Focus. This I hope will save the 600 jobs that might be lost if we stop making the 4 litre Ford engine.
Tony M
the I6 motor made right here is a world class motor too.
dont forget people reducing the engine capacity wont always reduce fuel consumption either. holden have proven it. infact they get worse consumption from the 3.6L than what they got from the 3.8L
also the ford V6 in question has a fair bit less torque which suggests that consumption would be worse aswell especially under load
andrew is a dick like cock sucking slow ass craige lowdes
Looks like the 12 year olds are back!!!!!!!!!!!
what 12 year olds are back
Andrew M: Yes the Ford inline 6 is a great motor but what we need to remember is we are part of a global market. It’s not an issue of how great our motor is because in the end it will be Ford USA who decides what we will and will not use.
I hate to say this but I believe that our future Australian cars will be “bitsa” cars.
You know every one is jumping up for joy because our dollar is so high, well remember what happens to the price of our exports (especially our cars/components).
It’s clear to me that the new Orion with have to be part of the gobal market and I would not be surprised if our chassis (both Orion and Commodore)will be exported to the States for use on their cars.
As for those people who seem to have a problem with certain parts of theirs and other anatomy, grow up if possible. All you do is display a lack of class and knowledge. And at a guess I would suggest you measure things by size not by use.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
this cracks me up reading all these ford vs. holden comments, come-on people we all know ford is better than holden any day
You know what really cracks me up is the number of people that live in a dream world of Holden verses Ford and Ford verses Holden.
Wake up to yourselves, the world is changing, big cars are being put out to pasture all over the world. Unless Holden and Ford in Australia can reduce fuel consumption in their Falcons and Commodore, all I can say is “Buy Buy Jack” no more making cars in Australia.
I don’t mean to be synical but really guys, some of you Holden guys especially, need to get a life. Reading who is the number one driver in V8 Super cars. Hey who cares, what these guys earn a week you guys earn a year. And think carefully about what I said because it just might mean you work in a dead end job maybe at Holden counting the nuts and bolts (that now come from China) that go on the Commodore.
If you want reality, I can see the Ford Orion being the last Ford made in Australia with the new Mondeo being its replacement (check on the dimension differences between the Falcon and Mondeo).
And if I were a Holden supporter, take note of the number of cars that come from Asia with the Holden badge on them. Oh yeh, in the early 70′s there was a car called the Rambler Hornet, it had flared guards.
12 months later it died a slow death, why, flared guards on day to day cars go out of fashion so quick.
i remember reading in a wheels mag that they had inside info and that the i6 will power the orion and it will meet euro 4 emmissions for when they come into place in 2010. the emission laws that are in place now stopped holden from making some of their v8 models like the crewman v8 avalaunche or some stupid name like that and a few others.
well maybe not i get paid 9 and a half million a year
You must be related to this former Formula 1 driver I think.
Tony M,
well i sorta agree with you in the fact that if they dont do something about the large cars that segment will slowly die. thats why some one like ford should knuckle down and produce an awesome LPG motor for example. large cars wont die if they do something about the fuel costs.
i think ford are improving their gas range as they have put a more catchy name to it now …G6E. that to me means they are going to have something pretty good and really worth spruking about. (well lets hope so)
the ultimate way to go with it is to put some gas turbo models out there to show people you can get the same power out of gas when it is done properly.
also i think they will adress the fuel type first before they kill them off as they are developing a hydrogen turbo falcon at the moment. it may be a bit off production yet but lets hope its not too late by then. you see even if the hydrogen is their long term solution, i think putting a bit of $$ in to gas is the immediate solution.
as for Garth T,
well how am i meant to be insulted by someone who cant even spell???
Missile: I totally agree with u about the way holden won the championship last year. What we could of had was a race reminiscant of the great peter brock/dick johnson race at lakeside in 1981 which as the same situation and the eventual outcome left fans of both sides happy with the results. But no other holden drivers had to block lowndes and the brothers gay had to run him off the track in order to win. FUCKIN BULLSHIT
i curently have a falcon bf xt and i whent and test drove the holden omega, ill tell you the ford is a much much quiter car when your driving. You cant hear the tyers, and the suspention has a softer feel
which makes the ride cumfertable
in my apinion the falcon is 5 years old but its just as good as the new holden iff not better, im Quit seprized about holden spending one billion dollers when the 5 year old falcon is just as good
I have just read that Ford will be closing their engine making plant. I feel for those who might lose their jobs directly and indirectly. When you see what Ford USA has been doing over the last 12 months in rationalising their organisation (similarly so has GM)you realise that it had to have an impact in Australia.
The Ford Orion appears to be the last car that Ford makes with their straight six. But a car is more than its engine. I still believe the dynamics of the current and future Fords is vastly superior than the current Commodore. It is clear from the reports out in the car industry that the Falcon is more tailored to Australian conditions than the Commodore.
We do need both the Falcon (Orion) and the Commodore in Australia as our population is increasing. But I do believe that we should be more Europe orientated than American in our car design and dynamics.
Andrew M: I still believe Ford will have to taylor the new V6 to accomodate LPG as I believe this fuel source is a widely accepted alterantive to petrol in Australia but a also believe that there will be a major shit to diesel. I have read an article in one of the car magazines that suggest in the next Commodore update, Holden will be using a turbo diesel engine as well as their current 3.6 litre petrol.
does anybody know the power figures of the v6 ford engine and what kind of fuel consumption.
The 3.5 litre Duratec engine has 198kw and 339 Nm of torque. I’m led to believe that we might get a 3.8 litre which I can’t find any power or torque figures for. One thing that must be remembered is that the engine is all aluminium which will make it very light.
I also read that it was regarded as one of the top 10 engines in the world.
if this engine was to be released in 2010 its going to need more power and torque then the last of the i6 which is going to be like +200kw and more torque maybe 390nm or more.
i dont think a 3.5L is inuff the new holdens are 3.6L and there really slugish it feels like thers no torque
but i guess iff they want real good fuel aconamy thats what you would have to do
the 4l i6 gets 10.2l per 100km and the holden only gets 10.7l per 100km. and dont forget the ford has more power and more torque
yea it wont have more torque if it becomes a v6 3.5L
This new falcon is very stylish and more apealing then the boring VE commedore.
and also there is no point of changing the 4.0 litre inline 6 cylinder engine when it is jst as powerful than a V6 and it has more torque. who cares if it old technology it works
Look all you wankers. The Ford Boss 5.4 is a better engine than the Holden 6 Litre. Who cares where the engines are made, the fact remains the 5.4 is more technology advanced. It has slightly less KW than the 6 liter but the 5.4 has more torque so is arguably the more powerful engine. It is a smaller engine with roughly equivilent HP as the Holden 6 litre. I think Holden R8 is a good looker, which, is where Ford will need to match or better in 2008. But if you are in the market for a powerful car then you need to look at the mechanics of the vehicle as well as the looks. This is where the Ford comes into its own. The Ford is extremly suffisticated in engine,transmision,computerised handling, particularly when cornering. It is streets ahead of the commadore. If the 2008 has the right body it will be a hands down winner. I am looking to sell my 2006 BMW 5 for the 2008 Ford Package. I have done my research.
Guys on the Ford Forum have just posted the next wheels cover,with the pics that we all got last week of the Phoon and GT, 320kw !!!!!!!!!! So stuff that in your pipe Holden and smoke it . Always behind !!
garth tander rules go holden queensland raceway
Garth WHO!!!!!!! Cheat Tool Team !!!!!!
The issue regarding the inline 4.0 litre in comparison to the V6 3.5 litre (I still believe Ford will use the 3.8 litre) is the smaller motor is made of aluminium which heats up quicker and therefore creates less polusion.
What I don’t understand is why they don’t cut 2 cylinders off the 4.0 litre motor which should bring it down to about 2.6 litres and make it into a turbo diesel engine. All the hardware to don this is at Geelong, and guess what, it would be made for export.
There is another engine that might by put out to pasture and that is the 5.4 V8, why, try iron block. But fortunately Ford has the all aluminium 4.4 V8.
Put a supercharger on it and I believe we are talking about 400kw.
Looking at that bonnet buldge im thinking theres air vents under that cover…maybe the buldge acts as a bonnet scoop as well.
The back of the GT is sitting very low (look at the wheel arch), but the driver could be accelerating.
I think there will be a wing on the back, im predicting a slight backward gradient (look how far the back bumper sticks out from the top of the boot).
Correct me if im wrong but is that plastic on the bottom of the doors there to stay?? Their is definetley more on this car then the BA/BF. i suppose it does give it a bit of character (door handles are different also).
It looks like ford have done a bit of work on the brakes, The caliper in the front of the GT has been moved to the back of the discs.
The last thing i noticed (the only thing im not to sure about) is that curve at the back of the back door extending above the roof line. But overall i think this car may out class the VE… i can however be sure that the sixes will be in a class of their own. im looking forward to turning one into a race car
The Orion Falcon looks set to be a triumph for Ford Australia. It carries design cues from BFII and other car styling and engine/transmission from BF that will easily be competitive until the 2010 V6 comes into play. If the is the new ”AU” Imagine how good our future mid – life facelift ”BA” will be by 2012… The styling wont polorise like AU, wont be as unreliable as the EA was, and not a glass house like the XD. I’m a New Zealander, where the term ‘Orion’ was used as a sub modal for a telstar between 1992 – 1997. I still believe the EA was the most stunning new aero dynamic modal of all new generations.
Hey Andrew you back from the V8s yet ?????
Have a look at the link I have posted above,if you read some of what they have found on the car thats new you will see the new Orion has indicators on the mirrors as I said previously.
Great race today,LOTS of biff and barge.
I think the ea was far more reliable then the el au ba and bf ( with my experiance anyway)…i really do hope they look at improving the quality of the falcons in this model…but if this car is as successfull as the BA was, or more, then we have ourselves a great car. i still remember lokking at the AU when it first arrived and i was worried but not when i look at this. And as for the v6 in 2010, we dont need it, i love the inline sixes, its where our advantage lies
Oh yeah, whats with the holden guys just saying HOLDEN RULES, FORD SUCKS bla bla bla. its clear you dont know shit about cars, and just because you drive a $700 rusty holden thats about 30 years old with 70kw doesnt make you holden fan of the year…you dont see mark cromie on here making a complete dick of himself
Holden Rules: You need help.
I know plenty of people who are real Holden supporters and believe me they’re nothing like you. Again I say you need help.
Yeah the Falcon in-line six is iconic to Ford but so far have been unsussessful at tweaking it to meet new emission standards that must be met by 2010. Reluctantly, a US V6 comes in and has been approved, a world class engine by any standards but a V6 (sigh)
I didnt say their arent real holden supporters, but the people i mentioned dont know shit…comprehension mate
I dont think thats the new falcon, looks more like 1996 toyota camry to me. very very pedestrian
its confirmed
the orion FPV
GT=320kW
F6=300kW
GTHO?
AS a previous owner of 19 high performance ford vehicles and currently a new GTP that I was forced to spend a rediculous amount of money with trial and error to get it to stop and handle,I have been modifying ford vehicles for race and road for around 35 years and I have to say in truth my wifes VE SSV 6.0L commodore has it all over my vehicle ,looks,brakeing, handleing, engeneering,tighter to drive and build/finish quality are high above any FORD I have owned and for $18,000 less I will be buying the new fpv orion when they come out but I trully believe ford will have to do something trully amazing to be up there with Holden.Holden always seems to be one step ahead of ford. I think the top boy at ford should start listening to the people who buy their vehicles,because I’m getting sick of second best, every one is talking about the new typhoon in my opinion yeh.. its going to get up and go,…. but with that much h/p coming out of such an old design engine I cant see it lasting to 100,000klm with out a big $ rebuild but good luck to anyone who buys one.
I’m a bigger ford fan than you can imagine but I give credit where its due.holden have put together a truly remarkable world leading car,and anyone that rubbishes it should take one for a drive for a day to see what we are missing out on.
regards. Paul
Paul GTP said: you might be right regarding the high performance end of the Australian made cars. But you measure a car by the bottom end of the market and I believe the current Ford Falcon is a better car that the VE Commodore. What I seem to notice is the Falcons just keep on comming while the Commodores have high maintanence costs over time.
The interesting point you made about how a high performance FPV turbo Falcon might need an engine rebuilt at 100,000km should also be considered when you have the current Commodore weight increase of 100 plus kg and how it’s 3.6 litre engine is struggling to handle the heavier car. I suspect the Commodore might need an engine rebuilt a lot sooner.
paul GTP said: on reference to the F6 “but with that much h/p coming out of such an old design engine I cant see it lasting to 100,000klm”. I also have been turning falcons into race cars for years and we get alot of power out of these i6s. on a race track these cars are open throttle most of the time…and il tell you what these engines rarely break…and thats on the race track. The typhoons generate this power effortlessly, the torgue is huge (its away at 2000 revs, unlike the V8s that dont come in until about 4000) and if you own a typhoon, your not going to have your foot on the floor for much longer then 10s at any one time (if you have then your going bloody fast), these engines will go for ever…its the car that will break first.
who comfirmed these figures i thought i was still speculation and wheels insiders. though i do believe the gt and f6 will have 320 and 300 wheels reckons the typhoon will have 575nm of torque from 2000 rpm but they say it will be only able to do 0- 100kmh in low 5s but hsv claim gts can do 0-100 in 4.9. that car does have more power but not as much torque and from that low. plus it should be lighter car
Bavarian: in relation to the Kelly Lowndes “incident” last year you’re about 6-8 months too late.
If you watch the replay several times you will see that Lowndes was on the inside line to turn 2 which was a left hander and both Kelly boys were on the outside therefore; had to go the long way round.
However; the next turn was a right hander which meant that the Kelly boys were now on the inside line and Lowndes was on the outside.
If lowndes had used his head he would have realised that the corner after that was a left hander and that he would probably be on the inside line again.
But no he tried to force his way inbetween the Kelly boys [into a space that wasn't even big enough for a mini]. Todd kelly hit the brakes early then Rick brakes a little bit later than most.. which closed the gap even further. Lowndes kept coming accross and contact was made.
Later during the subsequent replays Neil Crompton said that Lowndes should have backed off. as at the point of contact Kelly was on the racing line and therefore had right of way.
Yet Lowndes persistent whinging and complaining resulted in Kelly getting a drive through
as did Skaif and Tander for blocking when in fact they were racing for position. It’s as if Lowndes is a protected species.
Kelly is a handbag . Beleive what you want they were blocking Craig and the officials new it in the end by giving Kelly the drive through. They Cheated !!!!!!!!!!
It will go down as one of the most undeserving championship wins in V8 Supercars history as far as the Ford fans are concerned.
If you Ford [Lowndes] Fans were upset by the “racing incident” at PI last year I ‘ve got some even worse news for you
Both HSVDT and HRT are looking at cross entering all 4 drivers; from each team that is Skaife; Tander; Kelly; Kelly; [and the Co Drivers]; into all 4 cars for the upcoming endurance races. This means that should 3 of their cars fail to finish they can switch all 8 drivers over into the remaining car.
The word is AVESCO won’t/can’t stop them.
Apparently Holden has found a loophole under FIA rules which allows them to do so..
Because Sanddown and Bathurst are open to drivers from overseas it is run under international rules.
It’s not so much cheating as using the rules to your advantage.
But Karma got them last year when Skafie cooked the clutch on the line at Bathurst,hahahaha Tander looked real dirty,I bet he’s hoping Skafie isnt going to be his team mate AGAIN!
They did a similar thing last year hope Karma catches them again,I know I will be out with my VOODOO Skaife doll sticking pins in him again. Worked last year ! I am a Enforcer fan anyway,bring back GOD/ Ambrose for Russells team mate and look out Murphy if that happens.LOL…….
PAH! Rick Kelly in my point of view, as well as many others, has become one of the biggest cheaters of the new millenium!
That championship belonged to Craig Lowndes!
If Kelly had of won it fairly then I’m sure that all the Ford supporters would have bowed down respectively. Which is something all you Holden supporters don’t know about… Regardless of how many more times Ford has won the V8′s, Holden is still the better? How does that work?
Spot on Azza, no one has respect for Kelly ,he has always seemed to have punted drivers off the track,remember Bright in wall at about 150 klm at Indy a few years ago c/o of Crash Bandicott ? Then Bright was Holden too,Kelly is a tool not TOll!!!!!!!!! He is such a girl,he sounds like he’s crying when he gets upset ,maybe his gonads havent dropped yet,his voice sounds like it! HAHAHAHA
The reason he cooked the clutch was due to the incompetents in race control. The 10 second board was displayed whilst there were still a couple of drivers getting ready at the rear of the grid. As a result instead of being 10 seconds it was closer to 20 seconds [or more] as they have done on several other occassions. That’s what’s so good about the way they start Indy/Champ Car races – a rolling start.
Ambrose won’t be available for the Enduros.. which will probably mean less safety car interventions.
The incident with Murphy was another example of a Ford Driver throwing the championship away.
Watch previous Races at Mt Panorama and you’ll see coming out of CAT Corner the majority of drivers go wide into BP cutting; [on the RHS of the road]. They drift through the apex onto the RHS of the track then switch over to the LHS on the approch to Reid Park and then through McPhillamy Park. A wide entry into a corner means a narrower and quicker exit.
This is usually done in single file as there’s not alot of room up there.
Therefore; Murphy was on the normal racing line and Ambrose should have slotted in behind him. Ambrose as so incenced by the Balaklava incident he took risks he tried a passing manouvre that wasn’t on he made contact and ended both drivers chances
If he remembered to wear his Balaklava he wouldn’t have been in that position.
As for Russell; there are rumours he could be switching Back to Holden.
At the moment SBR have no sponsors for either car next year as Caltex has pulled out and the deal with Jeldwen ends at the end of this season.
wow WHEELNUT is very defensive of his holden counterparts…your an amateur round the racing scene i take it…typical holden finding an excuse for their every failure, of course it cant be the fact that ford are better can it?? you cant blame race control for a burnt clutch, its racing, and no one else was left sitting on the line sniffing burnt aspestos…and race controls gave kelly a slap on the wrist penalty because he cheated, not because lowndes pushed for a penalty…its fine he won the championship, because look at the respect he lost doing it. lowndes is a much better racer then kelly even though he was robbed of the win
wheel nut, yes it is sooo simple watching replays isnt it you big pro!!!
1. lowndes didnt force a gap and the contact was made by rick kelly first. hhmmmmm i guess you forgot the most important part there, that is who actually made the contact. ok so you dont want to talk about tander slowing lowndes to help out rick either? funny that. especially when at the start the officials announced that anyone coming between or helping either one of the contenders would be dealt with.
2. lowndes whinging didnt earn rick a penalty, it gets issued by the stewards and if you are a real fan of V8′s you would realise the stewards wont even consider evidence in the form of an admission of guilt!! and also act too soon some times. a good example is, well i forget who it was now but it was on one of larry perkins cars. it was struggling to get out of corners big time and someone came through a blind corner and punted him off big time yet even after perkins team rushed to the stewards and said it was their car that was at fault the stewards still issued a penalty.
3. bathurst….
well like hell someone is going to slot in behind someone who they are in front of. it doesnt matter who had the typical line!!!! gee you know your stuff in that you say “wide line in and hit the apex to get a quick exit speed” WELL DONE!!!
big thing is that doesnt apply when you are competing with someone. ever heard of a defensive line or longer under brakes and sacrificing exit speed?? now if murphy was smart he would have realised he was being passed and tried the under over move.
4. skaife and the clutch…..
well how long did the others wait? 5 secs compared to skaifes 20 secs? pffft what a silly statement cause everyone suffers the same conditions.
5. 4 driver HRT thing…
well another fine example of holdens win at all cost attitude. and you think that is sportsman like to do that??
if that is true what a ridiculous rule. ok then whats stopping every ford driver signing on to every ford race car??
all holden cares about is winning V8′s to keep its fans happy so they will buy their cars.
I am not accusing Kelly or Lowndes for their actions at Phillip Island. it was just an unfortunate racing incident.
I agree Kelly did make the initial contact. Race Control reviewed the footage deemed that a pass had been made and issued a drive through which is all they could have done under the rules.
However; sometimes when a pass is being made or, has been made there isn’t always enough time or space on the road/track for the pass to be completed safely.. contact is made which results in an accident.
When an accident occurs both drivers involved must have made some sort of mistake which somehow contributed to it. [usually speed or distance]
I have been a Flaggie for 10 years over that time I have gotten to know most of the drivers including Lowndes and Kelly from chats with them in the pits after the fans have gone home. Therefore; I can honestly say neither driver would want to win a race/championship if it meant they had to deliberately take another driver out.. its not in their nature.
and I respect them both
If Kelly is such a cheat and so reckless then why hasn’t he been involved in more incidents this year trying to defend his title?
It wasn’t deliberate it was a racing incident which was dealt with accordingly. Deal with it
I believe the reason Ford drivers can’t be cross entered into other is that FPR SBR JBR and 888 are managed/run by seperate entities whereas HRT and HSVDT are managed/run by TWR Australia which effectively makes them [as many fans have suspected] one team.
A bit like Caltex Havoline Racing and Jeldwen Racing on a slightly bigger scale
Afterall; with the competition so close at the moment all teams/drivers are out looking for that special something to give them even the slightest advantage over their rivals.
I don’t like the rule either..cross-entering shouldn’t be allowed However; you can’t tell me that the Ford teams wouldn’t take advantage of the rule if they were in the same position.
Don’t blame Holden blame the FIA it’s their rules.
wheelnut,
what im getting at is the long and drawn out process at the start of the year that nearly had HSV and HRT kicked out for the year. they have now proven they are owned by separate entities (just to keep people happy but we know really what is going on).
if they did merge it would just prove guilt on their behalf yet again.
they nearly got fried over the last driver/team swap thing and also the involvment of tom walkinshaw so i doubt they would be game to do it again.
if they co-enter drivers on other cars again it is admission that they are owned by the same person.
also jeldwen and caltex is totally different. SBR holds a 2 car licence and declare both cars fairly under the one banner. they just have different sponsors on each of the cars. same with FPR.
they can declare they run 2 cars but not 4 or 6. if they run 4 or 6 they are cheating….simple.
they brought these restrictions in to deal with the “TWR empire” that consisted of effictivly a 6 car team and also saw a holden dominence for a few years.
both fans and teams saw that it gave those teams an unfair advantage so they had to deal with it
hrt wasnt cleared all together they were fined a few thousand dollars for what they did
Lets see “holden design new model cost $5,000,000 ” What if we weld a Mitsubishi 380 rear end onto a Ford BA front end then we will add a V6 make it rear wheel drive. HEY PRESTO we have a new model get real tossers
Andrew M you watch the racing over the weekend ?
What was the go with Tander having a go at Skaife ? Seems to be some tension in the Holden camp ! Did you hear Tander say “Skafie ran out of talent” when he spun in front of Tander on a qualifying lap . When Skaife was told what Tander said Skaife got all defensive {as usual}? Maybe Tander is making it clear he wont be driving with Skaife this year,he needs the points I imagine if he has Crash Bandicoot in his sights.
A Ford can still win this Championship clearly especially if it rains a heap more.What is the go with the HRT,TOLL Cars in the rain ?
Cannot understand if Russell heads back to Holden however ? So says the rumor, Ross and Rusty to sit down this week so I hope the news is good for my man!!
yeah the hsv/toll teams have a pretty funny relationship????
did you catch the press conferences on bigpond? i usually like to catch tham for a laugh. hey the funniest one i have seen is rick kelly studdering in the conference after he won the championship last year. ….funny as!!
yeah i am so sick of the way the hsv and toll teams are so up tight and dont relax infront of the media.
as for the result its good to see a holden other than one of the “holden pumps shit loads of money into teams” win for once.
i am a massive ford fan but my respect for holden lays as far as perkins racing. now he is a nice/decent and ethical bloke. im saying that to prove im not a biased ford follower. pity the other holden teams breed such ignorance into their drivers.
and thats pretty much why lowndes left them.
i didnt mind tander when he was with GRM but now he says some of the pigheadest things
I am fond of Jason Richards,seems too nice a bloke to be with Murphy. What is it with Murphy I would hate to be his sponsor the bloke is so negative and blames everyone else when its not going his way,Murph take responsibility for your own actions please and stop throwing a tandy when things aren’t going your way.Unbelievable how he just pulls the plug mid race when he sees no point in racing unless he gets points and finishes in the top 15,maybe he would sort the car out he’s complaining about so loudly if he spent more time in it.
wat a rip of of the ve holden commodor for you still suck
Remember you heard it here!
I’m reading lots about GM’s and other tragedies on this Ford Forum. Enjoy your successes Holden drivers as it will all be history. GM is on the way down, My understanding is that GM have backed Holden in Australia for all these years as a means to inhibiting the asian car manufacturers from making full use of Oz as a testing ground prior to sending cars into the more competetive markets of North America and Europe. Now that the yanks are greening up and want smaller environmentally cheaper to run cars, GM is suffering. Watch who is the first recipient of cost cuts. The tiny Australian Holden Branded GM will have to justify itself properly once and for all. Give it a couple more years and we shall all see if holden can truly go it alone.
Long live globalisation!
dont know about the new modle but i hope the v8 valves dosnt burn out like the BA you would of thought ford would of fixed the problem in the BF modle $$$$$$$$$$
owww and the back looks way too high now like all the modles of holdens are i wonder how do people see out the back to park it?
I can’t believe some of the drivel written above, it makes me remember why I stopped visiting fordforums. I have picked out three particularly poor contributions that I plan to respond to specifically.
But first I just want to give my opinion on the new Falcon – noting I don’t drive a Commodore or Falcon, but have owned Commodore’s previously and probably lean to the red side. In disguised pre-production form it is hard to tell definitively how good it will look, but the front seems to look nice and aggresive and hopefully it will look a lot less bland than the BA-BF. I am sure it will be a good car, there is no reason why it won’t be, if you take the current well regarded platform and make some improvements how could it not be good. Only downside I can see, as mentioned by XR6_T, the Orion looks like old fashioned with a short wheelbase long overhang stance compared to the VE. Personally I reckon the VE looks great, the seemingly controversial flares look tough as, though with the big wheel arches it doesn’t start to look balanced until it has 19 inch wheels on it, the 16s on Omegas really look bad. Also I can’t believe they kept the old crappy 4 speed box, I hope Holden is making good use of whatever money that decision is making for them. It has deserved the awards it has won, but it will be interesting to see how the Orion changes things.
Now to the rebuttal of some of the shite written above. First Andrew. M, you don’t know what the hell you are on about. Yes Holden has been building one model range in Australia for a while now, so has Ford Aus. Though I guess the Territory makes it one and a half, it shares a lot with Falcon but is different enough to nearly count as another model.
Holden has had a successful export program in recent years, which is probably the only reason it could rustle up the bucks to develop the VE, while Ford Australia has been routinely shafted by its masters in Detroit. Holden exports a shitload, Toyota Australia exports even more and Ford Australia exports nothing, your claim about the rest of the world wanting the Territory may be true but currently they don’t do jack, a couple of cars to New Zealand doesn’t even begin to count.
The rest of your post just follows that usual Ford crap that claims some dubious superiority due to the differing business models used by GM and Ford. GM uses many different brand names in different markets and Fords doesn’t, it uses ‘Ford’ mainly with a couple of others in the US, and retains Mazda, Jaguar etc. Does this make any difference to the cars we drive, no it does not. Whether a car is badged ‘Daewoo’, ‘Holden’, ‘Chevrolet’ or ‘Opel’ is irrelevant, it is a GM product in exactly the same way that a ‘Ford’ sold in Europe or Australia or wherever is the same. Even the average primay schooler can understand this.
It would not be cheap to partially export cars and fit motors etc overseas, of course any cars built in Australia are complete with all mechanicals before export, even those imported components. Had to laugh at the weighty V8 comment, everyone knows the GM LS motors are very light, far far lighter than the boss motors and most other V8s currently available.
I don’t know the current percentage of Holden’s exported, I suspect it is certainly not 50% but it is quite significant and when the G8s come on stream it will be much more.
Jacob you are worse than Andrew M, far worse. Their, it is spelt their, not there. Anyway, I don’t know what the hell you are talking about, Holden hasn’t changed it’s look in 20 years and Ford has??? Have you seen an AU?? Does it have any resemblance to models before or after?? Some people would suggest some similar themes over time would be a virtue not a reason for criticism. I am not sure that this even worth mentioning on either side but probably there is more consistency in styling over the last 20 years for Holden than Ford, you can sort of see the progression from VN to VT to VE, but gee it is barely worth bringing up.
I don’t think the BA/BF is ugly it is just a bit bland and boring, probably understandable after the AU debacle. Holden has probably been a touch more adventurous styling wise since then, but only marginally.
Yeah, the bonnet bulge looks tough I guess but if the motor fitted in the car in the first place you wouldn’t need it. The ‘sornkels’ (sic) had much more to do with the preferences of the US market I believe than the XR8 or XA, 18,000 GTOs versus 3,000 Monaros gives you a clue.
Ford rapes Holden to the grave, very clever objective commentary I can’t argue with that one.
No Commodore has double wishbone suspension, VEs have a strut with lower wishbone front and multi link rear. Pretty similar to many other cars, nothing to do with Ford.
Back in the day with the 5ltr??? Is that meant to be comedy or what, I can’t even begin to critique that. Holden was importing V8s from the US and decided to develop a new one here, how is that even relevant. What should they have built a V16 2 litre just to be different, that was the configuration of motor that made the most sense to make, so what. Should I argue that because Holden developed a four door sedan in Australia for 1948 any subsequent Ford design is a rip off???
BMW trannies??? Ha ha ha, it is a GM Powertrain product built in Europe that BMW decided to buy for its cars. Must be ok then hey, surely BMW wouldn’t buy a second rate part. And before any smart arse replies now BMW buy the ZF 6 speeder instead of the GM 5 speed box.
Chev engines??? Ha ha ha ha, Chev doesn’t make engines, Chevrolet is nothing more than a badge, it is a GM Powertrain motor used across many different GM Divisions. Not sure exactly how Ford organises itself worldwide, but potentially it also has a division that develops motors for all different markets, though the debacle with the Ford Australia six cylinder engine suggests otherwise.
In the V8 series they use our diffs, ha ha ha ha ha, there is not one single atom of metal in the diff produced by Ford Australia. They are built by specialst manufacturers for the series. The design?? What as soon as anyone makes a simple bevel gear diff with a 9 inch diameter they need to acknowledge Ford, dreaming.
Less of a Commodore?? More of a what?? The VE is 100% designed and engineered in Australia as a Commodore and as the Zeta component set for other GM large rear drive products. Is the fact that Ford Australia is ignored by the rest of the Ford empire and has to develop a product that does not share one nut and bolt with anything other product in any other market a good thing?? Maybe you should ask the people of Geelong if they agree with you.
Tonka truck??? I’m not sure how to respond to that, other than to say, I bet Toyota wished that people compared their products to tonka trucks, instead of refrigerators.
Shut down their biggest production line in Melbourne?? What they have done is built a new factory in Melbourne to assemble V6 motors for the world. Perhaps you should again ask the people of Geelong their view on the world wide manufacturing strategy of Ford.
There are 3 and maybe 4 organisations that create cars to any meaningful degree in Australia. Holden means as much if not more to Australia than any of the others. If Holden completely shut up shop in Australia tomorrow, then the other 3 would follow suit within months.
Finally Azza. No Chevrolet hasn’t had the Monaro until now, it was sold in the US as a Pontiac. But Holden is currently developing a sporty 2 door version of the VE to be sold in the US as the Chevrolet Camaro. Is any other Australian manufacturer involved in such a significant project?
The best example of Australian made Fords exported is the 60s??? Pretty weak to say the least. Ford Australia’s problem has mainly been a reluctance of its masters to allow it to export its product from Australia like GM in the US has allowed Holden. This is not a reflection on the relative merits of the products developed in Australia or the engineering abilities of either organisation, just that ‘head office’ has been more receptive to Holden than Ford Australia. The significance of this is highlighted below. But I have to say, the fact that other countries would rather sell their own cars rather than Australia’s is an argument for why ‘Falcons and Territorys will work overseas’??? Dude get your hand off your schlong, who’s stupid now??
Your last comment betrays a) your bias b) your complete lack of IQ. Ford Australia and Holden are exactly the same organisationally wise – wholly owned subsidiaries of their US parents, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation respectively. As I mentioned above, don’t be fooled by the fact the two different companies have a different view when it comes to how they market their product across the world. Ford Motor Company uses the ‘Ford’ nameplate to sell the majority of its product no matter where it is sold, whereas General Motors uses a different brand name in most different markets. The fact that this is enough to fool you into thinking the way that products are developed and sold is not a credit to you.
HENRY… you are right about Holden. SLATEMAN… you Holden lovers are so ridiculuous at times that you all line up as you all shaft the exhaust pipes on the cars you ogle over thinking they are gods gift to the motoring world. You state Holden has not really changed the model look over 20 or so years and that the VE is 100% designed and engineered in Australia as a Commodore and as the Zeta component set for other GM large rear drive products. Gee mate, get your facts crystal dam clear cobber, Holden Commodore clearly initiated from Opel and Holden just tweaked it to suit (subtle). HENRY is right about what will happen to Holden as you are already seeing a change of where people work by going to other countries, etc. HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA IS A BLOODY JOKE OF A RECENT AD AS IT ONLY BUILDS 1 MODEL IN AUSTRALIA. FORD WILL BUILD FOCUS / FALCON / TERRITORY AND YOU HAVE THE STUPID NERVE TO SAY FORD SUCKS… you obviously support cars mainly to be built offshore and if you lot had any backbone and balls you would scream / complain / voice loudly the disgust that Holden (which you zombies love to spout is an Australian icon) only build 1 local car. Holden equals glitz, crap and hoopla with big ticket people backing up and showing up on ads (Greg Norman, that Comedian, etc) who hoodwink all you dills by not overly building cars Downunder. Holden sells well because facts are they have to offer company incentives to compete with Aurion and other great packaged cars that have sweet $$$ on its head courtesy of exchange rates and management biting the bullet like Kia and Hyundai by offering major huge deals everyday virtually of the year. Good on FORD for having the ability to get management to keep it real by offering to build 3 cars locally and yes it hurts about where they source motors – at least the will build 3 locally made vehicles to Holdens 1. Mate you people need to be taken out the back and Reg Reegan off the Footy Show (aka Mathew Johns) give you some drunk uppercuts because at times you lot go on punchdrunk with gibberish I know it all crap! Whilst the TRD will not impact HRT, the Aurion / Camry, and new Falcon will.
Oops typo……..whilst the TRD will not impact HRT, the Aurion / Camry, and new Falcon will impact the Commodore.
Did you even read anything I wrote?? I will type in words of one syllable for you. What I said was :the VE is a newly developed component set, and the styling of Commodores over the last 20 years is probably marginally more consistent than Falcons (an arguable point that I said was hardly worth mentioning).
Good luck to Ford Australia if they build 3 different cars in Australia, I never once denigrated Ford Australia in my posts. As I said though, Territory shares tonnes of parts and engineering with Falcon so barely counts as a whole new model. Also where will the engineering be done on the Focus, where will motors be built etc. It will have plenty of input outside Australia. It is not a Ford Australia product, which seems to interest so many around here when they attack Holden – it is no different to if GM decided to assemble a Viva or Barina or whatever in Australia. Have to say though if people get spooked even more by petrol prices this could be a masterstroke by Ford Australia.
Finally, what are the stats on number of cars produced in Australia, how much capital is invested by each manufacturer, how many people are employed? The answer is I don’t know off the top of my head by pretty easy to find out (suspect you will find it is pretty even or probably Holden marginally ahead). Frankly I don’t care but you are basically saying that Ford Australia will produce 3 types of cars in Australia and Holden 1, therefore Ford Australia is great and Holden is rubbish and I just don’t buy it.
Your’s just seemed to be typical of posts on here, short on facts long on anti Holden bias without actually understanding what you were talking about.
Commodore is the generic tweaked Opel built Downunder and you try to state it is 100% designed and engineered Downunder. Ummmm interesting spiel on your evolution theory….with Opel ORIGINS OR DNA. Then like the illinformed person you are you expect people to listen to your sopabox and forget the same ORIGINS OR DNA! Now you are very funny!
SLATEMAN…how dare you accept Holden build only 1 vehicle downunder whilst from under your nose Holden is realigning itself right out from here bit by bit. Read Henry’s post as true heaps!
VE owes nothing to Opel, 100% Australian designed and engineered. VB to VZ had varying amounts of Opel input, from heaps (VB) to only residual (VZ). Pretty simple really, even for you.
Unless you haven’t noticed, the whole concept of manufacturing cars in Australia is hanging by a thread (all manufacturers). Other than the foray into Vectras in the 90s Holden has only built one model line (in many variants) for what 15-20 years? Henry’s post adds nothing new, both Holden and Ford Australia only exist by the grace of their masters in Detroit. Every cent for the development of Orion, Territory, BA etc came from going cap in hand to Dearborn and bending over, so what. Holden and GM and have to date made a much better fist of globalisation than Ford has (in the context of Australia). Holden import generic V8s and transmissions to put in Commodores, export V6s for Daewoo and Saab and export whole cars in pretty big numbers for many other GM brands. Ford Australia’s current products don’t share a nut or bolt with any other platform and aren’t exported anywhere.
With the billions GM has invested in recent years (way above that of Ford) on the engine plant in Melbourne and at Elizabeth they will be around for a few years yet. However you are definitely right that the long term future of Australian developed vehicles is highly doubtful.
Slateman,
well i dont know where to start. ill be honest i found it hard to follow what you were having a go at me about (try quoting something)
well you can get your facts on job losses in geelong for a starter. is there being any lost? really? STOP READING THE HEADLINES.
with exports what does it count for in australia? ford is following the same export preparation of their vehicles now too. the one main reason i see holden started exporting first is the fact that GM was in trouble a lot earlier than ford.
with new models coming to OZ…
ford AUS will have a part in designing the focus and also the ranger which is also rumoured to come here aswell (not just assembling)
oh yeah with the 2 door camero development it backs up what i said earlier…GM is in more trouble than ford. ford is still ticking along very well with the mustang so why do they need to put their hands up looking for someone else to have a go at it.
sorry thats about all i could make of what you were saying as your responces must have been to something that was typed a while ago. feel free to start a new argument though cause you are entitled to your say if you dont agree. but, yeah was a bit hard to follow you
slateman
andrew m probably knows more about whats going on in the automotive industry then any other person on this forum.
and your full of shit you just seem to read the headlines in the tabloid paper.
you are just like all other holden supporters jealous of how much better ford is
YOU WANKER
slateman, i dont know where you get your info from but ford australia is almost completely independent from ford usa, unlike holden who ship their already usa made cars back to the states and badge them as pontiacs. I Think that ford australia really need to hype up the advertising, i dont know about oz but in nz theres not alot of advertising for ford and the advertising that there is, is not great. The BA/BF ate the Vy/Vz and is still highly competive with this “new” commodore that cost a billion bucks, just wait for the new falcon, then the playing fields will be miles apart. i heard somewhere that holden were in court because the VE looks so similar to the Ba/BF, am i right? I love the new falcon, cant wait to see the real thing!!
Go the mighty blue oval
what is it with holden people trying to tell everyone that their ugly outpowered cars are better?
Slateman, I’d say something to you, but everyother normal person who has their normal and unbias opinions which are facts, has beaten me to it… So to me, you’re just a waste of time. Your just another blowjob reject that is so high on your own fumes that supports Holden with no reason.
To Steve (23/8/2007)! You moron!
Ford are allowed to have their new model look similar to their previous model… And I don’t think that it is coincidence that the VE Commodore looks like the BA/BF Falcon. So all in all, the VE is a wannabee remake of the BA/BF Falcon. And funly enough, Holden still made it look ugly!
Andrew M – sorry it was a post from a while back where you didn’t seem to get the fact that GM uses different nameplates for the same car in different markets – as a deliberate strategy not to hide anything. Think you missed a word in the sentence but I presume you were trying to say that there will be no job losses in Geelong. Is this true, haven’t heard either way, better look out for the headline. Good work if you can close down a factory and not lose any jobs.
Don’t agree with the slant you are putting on the development and export programs, as I have tried to get across Holden has been more involved in GM activities world wide than Ford Australia has been allowed to. This has given them the opportunity to do some things for the Yanks. Neither GM nor Ford in the US make large cars that are as good as a Commodore or Falcon. Ford has not yet taken advantage of this but GM has – though in a pretty small scale US market wise.
Bob – maybe read what people write next time and not just pick up a snippet from your Ford buddies. Your response was the sort of thing that made me write on this forum in the first place – light on in terms of thought and heavy on emotion and bias.
Point out one thing that I said that is factually incorrect or even where I said anything negative about Ford.
Azza – I can’t even imagine how anyone who has responded to me has even been vaguely unbiased. Point out even one thing that I have said that has no basis in reality or is written in a biased way, ie:
- VE is an Australian designed car not an Opel
- Holden has been allowed by its masters to export more than Ford Australia
- Holden and Ford Australia have esentially the same business structure
- Ford use the same badge for the majority of its cars, GM uses many different brands
- BF is a good car, Orion should be better
I can’t see how this is so difficult for you blokes.
Last post before I get rsi from typing so much. Mason, in a round about way you are picking up on the same points I made – in a product development sense Holden has been better integrated into the world wide GM empire than Ford Australia. As I have said though, in an organisational sense it is just the same, a wholly owned subsidiary that can’t breathe or spend one dollar without approval from Detroit.
I lied, one more post. Presuming that it is aimed at me, Mason when did I ever say Holdens were better?
SLATEMAN… you Holden wankers love standing in queue and taking your turn to …. shaft the exhaust pipes on Holden Commodores (boy with the utes even in base model form you can really plug away well). VZ Commodore has GENERIC OPEL GENES MATE SIMPLE REALITY and its people like you who have selective memory or rearranging reality to suit to make you guys seem smarter then a Professor.
SLATEMAN… have you got RSI at the wrist???
I couldn’t resist coming back to read some more. I was going to add a comment about masturbation in my last post but I thought Roberto you would feel clever if you got to do it.
I said that previous Commodores had Opel content in them, why are you trying to say I didn’t?
SLATEMAN… as you suggested you had RSI and the m….ion word you know real well how to spell, my advice is you better increase the resolution on your computer mate as you will go blind.
You gloated that VZ is designed and engineered Downunder… all Iam stating is its origin mate unlike you spouting how proudly it is made and where forgetting where it was created. Aussie brains pillaging info and technology is where it came from cobber so cut the gloating.
Slateman,
from memory the only thing i really said about the re badging thing was the fact that when daewoo was sold as daewoos people learnt not to touch them and hence daewoo Australia had to fold. yet they bring them back to OZ, slap a silver lion on them, whack another $5K on them and sell them upon the “holden image”. and i reckon 80% of people go “really?” when you tell them they are daewoos.
you cant tell me there is anything untruthfull about that. i have never bagged opels being re-badged as astras or vectras because at least they are a better car and they are not really breaking morals like the daewoos are (so to speak). so yes fair comment they arent hiding anything with the opels/vauxhalls but you cant say they are not with the daewoos because the market theory i have just spoken about just proves it.
were you sarcastic with the job loss comment or you giving credit where credit is due? yes its not bad when you read the FULL ford future stratogey. if you read properly you will find they plan to re-deploy staf in to their existing other arms of ford AUS and couple that with the 300 (i think it was)extra jobs that will be created due to the focus coming down under and the diesel line up coming here and also with the talk of the new ranger coming here to be designed here aswell etc etc etc. just curious did you hear about any of the extra jobs ford is creating or just the BOLD headlines that suggest that ford is simply firing people left, right and centre.
ok you dont agree with my slant on holden exporting then ok ill put it a different way…..
why would ford US need ford AUS to design a replacement for the 2 door mustang when what they already have (in the mustang) kills the market anyway.
next you have the camero that is being killed by the mustang so what do they do?? yep let someone else have a go at creating the new camero to see if they cant better the sales and resurect it (enter holden AUS)
oh and the falcon platform is set to be the basis for the new mustang aswell (well just the chassis not the full thing like the camero prob will be)
SLATEMAN… before you got into the twin exhaust pipes and got yourself in a lather with the Commodore ute with your back door bum chums, look at your earlier comment at September 3 2007 @ 1:59 pm. You said VE was 100% designed and engineered Downunder? DNA suggests otherwise. For the record I do like the Commodore over the Falcon, even though it has shortcommings so do not even go there suggesting Iam biased!
G’day boys+gals I was wondering what all of you reckon of the main design of the new ford GT’s. Being a holden lover (and also a first year apprentice in a Ford workshop), I really must admit there is not much different from the new 08 fords to the VE range….On the fords they have the same mag wheels as some of the VE’s and not to mension the same kind of sqashed in front and even the almost same style of fluting on the bonnet sidepanels. Now all I ask of is the opinions of all out there, why is there no distinghushing features on the new model fords compared to the VE’s. To me the cars look the same and that is an absolute crime. I mean please wheres the new age looks of the car gone, when the VE’s first came out it was like wow, look at that, thats a nice looking car. Now that ford has surfaced with a new model range for 08, I hate to admit it, but it’s like the car design is a copy, however a vague one, of the VE’s.
Roberto, it really isn’t that hard – VZ has Opel content and is not purely a ‘Holden’ design, VE is brand new car that shares nothing with VB-VZ Commodores or any other car.
Andrew we are getting somewhere slowly, though I think you are running too hard on the headline gag, it was pretty marginal to begin with.
I was half being sarcastic about the job loss comment and half serious. It is true I have not researched extensively Fords personnel plans but the last I heard was that they were attempting to redeploy those staff but there didn’t appear to be any guarantees.
I think people take the whole re-badging thing too far, I can’t see how matters what they are called elsewhere. Would it change things if Daewoos were never sold here under that brand? There is nothing sinister about it anyway, GM always had some links with Daewoo, the company went broke so GM bought them out. They are now just another GM product that happens to be built in Korea. It is not a secret to people who know anything about cars, and those that don’t know probably couldn’t care. These are all just GM products that are sold here under the one brand to simplify marketing.
I’ll give you a reason why it could be a good idea for Ford Aus to design the new Mustang. Developing cars costs shedloads of money, anything you can do to cut development costs helps the companies bottom line. Why have different parts of the same empire independently developing a similar thing. Why give Ford Aus a billion dollars to develop a new large car platform, then spend another billion developing a parallel platform in the US. If one group can develop the platform for a billion and you spend half a billion on working up the different variants you need you are half a billion in front.
This is not news to you, it has been going on big time for years. You would be well aware that a Ford Focus, Mazda 3, Volvo S40 and Land Rover Freelander all share the same underpinnings. Now where was that basic platform developed?? No idea, but it doesn’t matter in the slightest where it was. People just need to get away from the ‘not invented here’ mindset.
Had to laugh as I get down to the bottom to read that the Falcon platform was to be the basis for the Mustang, I think that somehow that doesn’t help your argument (in fact it kills it). I remember hearing somewhere that this had been talked about but didn’t know it was actually happening. Would have to be a good move, every review of the current Mustang I have seen is pretty ordinary, having some proper suspension under it will improve it no end.
I think I have gone over my daily word limit so it might be time to retire for the night.
Got burned when i purchased a new BA FALCON XR6 IN APRLI 2003.never,never a ford again..so much trouble with the car..wobbly front brakes,handbrake was a pain to keep adjusted(and expensive)water leak,oil leak,and to top it off throttle body needed to be replaced at my cost of $600 with only 57000kms on the clock.now drive a mazda6..brilliant..assembled in japan,,they know quality..so who cares about the new falcon..
Sounds like a lot of very embarressed and jelous ford fans trying to compare their shitbox falcons to to the ever so outstanding and totaly brilliant holden commodore, the only ones that listen to the ford crap comments are other looser ford drivers,no use putting crap on holden drivers we know how embarress you all are to drive fords I would be to but I’m not that stupid.
J.b.
i dont need to hear your rubbish. ill take the facts thanks
Them’s the facts!
Jb ..There not facts just your opinion !
yep ill informed and misguided one at that
What happened to peoples’opinions about the new Ford Orion. What got people saying how great Commodores are and how crappy Fords are but nothing about how the new Orion looks. And of course the people who have had a Ford Falcon that was a dud. Hey there are duds in all car brands. What you need to press is how bad the after sales servisce is at the dealerships from all brands.
Oh yeh, for the guys that recon the chances that Ford will take about 200kgs off the new Orion, I was pleased to read that a subsedury of Ford, namely Mazda has just released the new “2″ with a weight saving of 100kgs. Not bad for a 1100kg car. Since the Ford is currently 1800kgs they might get close to 150kgs in weight saving. It’s time fore some people to move out of their comfort zone and look at what really is going on in the world of car design today. Stop bagging what you don’t understand and try to see if it’s based on fact and not you perception.
An inside into the more base model Orion.
http://www.cgiautomotive.com/2.....con-orion/
Bavarian Missile said: Great site.
missile,
was it only the XR6 on that site?
yep,good site though. Has the ugliest thing BMW has ever thought or made on it! A people mover……yuk!
Wow, the fact alone that you knobs will expel so much effort into arguing over such trivial shit, and then call each other bogans is a joke.
Call me crazy, and knowing the type of people on this site you will, but i like the shape of the ve, and personally think the ford looks ridiculous. That’s the funny thing about perception, people perceive things differently. And guess what, i own a BA. Shock horror.
I’ve got some advice, why don’t all you boy/girl racer wannabes crawl back under that ignorant rock you slithered out from, you’re making all australian ford and holden lovers look like fucken idiots.
Kind Regards,
Fuck You.
FANTASTIC LOOKING CAR,
COMPARED TO THE NEW HOLDEN
ESPECIALLY THE REAR
WATCH OUT HOLDEN
ive seen it actually driving with the black stuff on it on the free way and it looks way better in real life but i wouldnt say the ute looks so good the sedans looked better
ive seen it actually driving with the black stuff on it on the free way and it looks way better in real life but i wouldnt say the ute looks so good the sedans looked better but the ba was the best
Slateman you are full of bee’s wax including being one big numb nut, your comment’s lack substance and facts give up while you can breath…….
Thereisa CGI of what they think of what the XT
(or whatever they call the base Falcon next year)
http://www.cgiautomotive.com/g.....Falcon.htm
with the orion falcon getting new engines in 2010 have they confirmed any v8 yet, i ask this because motor mag says that the jaguar engine is what they will get but wheels says its the the new boss engines(hurricane). with these new engine they will more then likely drop the weight of the car. we could have a ford falcon gt with 320kw that only weights 1600kg or there abouts. or a typhoon with 309 kw with the twin force technology that would be nice
would be nice to see that but the current V8 has just been upped to 302kw and 540nm of tourque in the new Cobra.
would want more than that.
Why does the next BF Falcon XR have no power increase? The current SS has 270kw when the XR8 still has 260kw
Why does the Cobra only have 302kw, the current HSV has 307kw
Clinton said a long time ago…
“FANTASTIC LOOKING CAR,
COMPARED TO THE NEW HOLDEN
ESPECIALLY THE REAR
WATCH OUT HOLDEN”
Too right!!!!
Even though it has bras on, it still shows a hot looking car!! Can’t wait until I see it topless! TAKE YOUR BRA OFF, FALCON ’08, WHOO!!!!
on my way to work, i saw a bloody holden VY with a XR8 bonnet. go figure? it just shows that holden went wrong somewhere with it styling!
Check out the link……..whats under the covers?
http://www.fordforums.com.au/s.....t=11199574
Ford is Ford…they’re the best anyways…though i am very happy with my 5.4Litre BA XT MkII, it has 288.3kW at the rear wheels…and i am happy with 11.5s 400m….i have over 700Nm at just 1800rpm….ahhahaah thats what the Dyno says … some 872Nm at just 3000rpm, wa hahahah and 839Nm at 6200rpm wa hahahahahahahahahhah FORD is more Australian than Holden which is just a badge … and has nothing to do with Australia nor is an Australian brand or ever designed here … its just an Opel;) at the end of the day…GM piece of shit!
NONE OF THESE CARS WERE DESIGNED IN AUSTRALIA!!! READ BELOW YOU RETARDS:
CAMIRA , EPICA , BARINA , RODEO , GEMINI , COMMODORE , VECTRA , ASTRA , ZAFIRA , CRUISE, MONARO , CAPTIVA, FRONTERA, SUBURBAN……………….
NONE OF THESE CARS WERE DESIGNED IN AUSTRALIA NOR ANY OF THEIR ENGINES ARE AUSTRALIAN AT ALL!!!!! GET IT??? AS FAR AS THE REST OF THE WORLD IS CONCERNED HOLDEN DOESNT EVEN EXIST!!!
THEY ARE JUST A BADGE , NOT A BRAND , NOT AUSTRALIAN AT ALL … HOLDEN = HOLES , OIL LEAKS , DENTS AND ENGINE NOISE!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
FORD IS FORD …. EVERYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD FORD RULES!!!
40 years of GT Falcons no wonder ford still lead in high performance Falcons.
Horrible
Old
Lemonaide
Dents
Eagles
Nuts
Holden’s
Sh*tty
Vomit
If you want to buy a Holden, i’ve got news for you… Holden Owners Loves dicks every “F***ing” night!!!!
Beat that “co*kheads”! :P LOL
My
Interier
Twisted
Spoof
Up
Beatroots
Idiots
Sex
Haters
Internet
Brett C, say something relevant, or I’m sure you will shortly be banned. All your comments are the same as above – pointless and abusive.
Oh you holden and ford fans are prehistoric. I don’t drive either,but have driven both. Ford is good nice ride and good all around handling, interior and exterior a bit dated,the Orion is a go nowhere for Ford it’s a BA. Commodore VE 6 sounds like a motor mower and drives like a truck and rides like a billy-cart. So Toyota sold more cars than Ford and Holden last month, why? Toyota must be the ugliest cars in OZ apart from BMW.
I am an idiot i really hate my self. im a cockhead
on the 4th and 5th pics the gt looks like it has a shaker on it, i wonder if they will put one on for the superoo if they do make it
Hey Andrew the only thing a superoo decal will go will be a HO so Rod Barret has said! It cant have a shaker and work anyway!
The 4 pics of the ones that have “GT” on the grill are fakes.
And even the bonnet is a fake, because it looks like the package of it’s air filter eliment glued on and the same bonnet of the old fuel-injected Mercs.
Look at the bonnet on the 6-8 pics, they look like the real deal.
HAHA Holdens are fucking shit and dont try to prove me wrong that holdens are better coz they certainly are NOT at all… :) MERRY CHRISTMAS
i think this looks alot more tougher than the gts hsv, and the new falcons should sell with ease.
cheers
I needed a good laugh after the last few days and this did it.
Thanks to one of the guys on the Ford Forums!Dumbrell has been confirmed to go too Toll..this is what he said!
“”Can every one put Dumb & P.rick together? What does it read? /end sarcasm”" hahahahaha…that was good!
__________________
So now they are speculating the following…..for SBR
Steve Owen
David Besnard
Will Davison
Luke Youlden
Shane Van Gisbergen
God please not Besnard or Owen……both are useless in a V8 Supercar!!!!!!My money would be on Shane or Luke !!Seeing Luke has been driving with Russell for a while now!! Shane hes good for 18 !!Will hes staying at DJR I would think ha Andrew!!!!!
as far a i know Will is confirmed for DJR so i dont know how that speculation has risen.
Besnard, Youlden and vangisbergen have been my tipped contenders.
Besnard may have grown up a bit now too so dont write him off just yet. when besnard started with SBR they had him in the development series and no one could catch him. its partly due to him having had a good car at the time i suppose but he would usually run off the track at least once in every race and still catch every one again and win.
he also is very very good mates with courtney. he was actually courtneys mentor when they were going through the ranks.
Youlden has well and truely proven himself in a SBR car as being more than capable many times.
Vangisbergen drives an SBR prepared car already so its almost like he would know the script.
Agreed….hey so did you think the picture of the A9X I sent you looked better than yellow and black?? Come on it is stealth like Wheelnut says!!
Hey, stay away from the “Volkswagen to beat Toyota with quality & beauty” post if you don’t want to see Toyota Paulie again.
maybe the new survey for the site should be the chorus from the “angels” song, about paul
“are we ever going to see your face again” A = NO
he should be in the rants and raves section where people could complain about his comments
I remember the words they never said in the song…….is that what your talking about??
That Paul is so cunning I can’t even respond to his stupid posts in a cunning way, like I did today with goog.
yep thats it BM…
you know the words every one sings obviously.
OOOOKKKKKKKK…….They still sing those words !
I guess he will get it then!
Seen the new Falcon today driving along Horseshoebend Road, Torquay at about 1030am. There where two cars following it and one in front of it. Its a great way to get everybodys attention as it did for me. Great camoflauge they use on it but the FORD badges stood out. I bet they be takin it on the Great Ocean road to give it a good run.
JBOT SAID…”Brett C, say something relevant, or I’m sure you will shortly be banned. All your comments are the same as above – pointless and abusive.”
You seem to have a boring life, twit. Only telling others to go.
__________
JBOT IS THE NEW TOYOTA PAUL!
Me, grow up. That is all.
For gods sake Jbot, you are the on who should grow up…
__________
JBOT IS THE NEW TOYOTA PAUL!
Ok mate. Recap the abuse you’ve thrown my way in the last few hours. I just pointed out when you were wrong, and now you’ve gone on acting like a 10 yr old.
Don’t you think “the New Toyota Paul” would have to like Toyota? I don’t have a problem with the majority of people on here, I just have a low idiot tolerance, and there has been a few of them in the past.
^Then why do you even bother?
Without offence you made cunning attcks on me. If you have a low idiot tolerance, just don’t bother.
See my post on Land Rover LRX post. I don’t plan on responding to any more of your petty remarks.
Come guys…….tis the season to be merry….tralalalala.
Yes BM that’s over now and time to think about X-MAS!
Seen the new falcon again today and still it looks better than the VE commodore even with all the camflauge on it. Holden should have spent the billion dollars on camoflauging the VE cause that is one ugly car. Holden VE commodore sales are falling fast for a car thats been out for a short time. Big mistake by holden and a waste of money as Ford always makes the smart moves with there new cars. The 4 litre is king of aussie muscle cars.
We all know how good the Ford typhoon is and how holden doesnt even have a match for it. Wait till they bring the next GTHO out. That is gonna bring back memories like the XYGTHO did. Ford falcon will be the worlds faster 4 door sedan again soon. Holden is doomed as always. Bring it on Ford cause Ford is the only aussie car company that can do it.
I hope its a lighter gtho all hsv has on it is the weight i hope ford have an answer for hsv.
What about bret c,s coments to paul? did you ban him?
Well, im not supporting the Jap whale murderers anymore, they can piss off. Those japs are weird shits as well.
If i’m financially sound when the orion v8 models arrive, i would like to upgrade from the BA XT.
Hey BK,
You sound like a complete retard that knows nothing! Ford has lost millions over dollars because of the ageing falcon. And the Commodore sales are rising you idiot!”ford always makes smart moves” BK says. Well i say……..what a load of crap!OK whats your answer for ford lossing millons of dollars this year idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!And ahhhhhhhhh holdens V8s are faster!!
P.S. BK, wait till the camouflage come off the falcon, then you will be scared and shocked to see how stupid it is!!!! And if ford will spend half a billion dollars on the new orion, holden has spent 1 billlion dollars, so fords way has been to just to copy a few design parts of holden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Stupid Scams!!!
duck you sound like a bigger goose than BK…..
It might be a smart move for ford to delay production…. then they might not have the same problem holden had with all the early recalls!!
Who cares if holden V8s are faster, you can only do 100, and the ford v8′s sound better and lets face it its 75% of the reason most people buy V8′s!
i think it will be a stunner, new falcon should be very european!
And i think if you look ford has been a innovator of a lot of things, holden have actually immitated ford!!!
Duck,
maybe ford did report a loss last year but holden reported an even bigger one.
you a few cards short so im not even going to try and explain basic business principles “101″. if you knew that you would know profits and losses are reflective of development costs.
Ford actually did holden a favour by not releasing a new car to coincide with the release of the VE. remember who took all the gongs when ford and holden both released new cars in the same month of 2002? and ford was still getting them 3yrs after the fact
hey BM,
maybe i should rename myself elephant, ha ha ha
you will get it
Duck, there are cycles of profit and loss in the car industry. If you look back you’d find Holden were posting big losses while they were spending money on the development of the VE. Back to profit once the VE was completed.
Similarly, Ford lost money while developing BA, and after it’s release, they were making large profits again.
Right now Ford is spending on Orion, and making very little money off BF sales to offset that, because most people will want to wait for the new model (I am in that boat).
We’ve all had the debates, yes Holden has a bit better V8 at the moment, Ford has a better 6.
All manufacturers copy to some degree. VE headlights look like BF headlights they put through the wash and shrunk a bit. Many Euros have been into flared gaurds for years. Territory had pull style door handles before VE, etc, etc… The copying debate is pointles IMO.
If there were no copying at all, there would be thousands of unique cars with seriously whacky designs, and that isn’t possible. As long as a car isn’t a mirror image .ie. direct knock off like the Chinese seem to be doing lately, the copying argument is pointless.
And you contradict yourself. If Falcon copies Commodore, as you say, then why would it be crap?
Have you seen the Orion uncamoflaged?? I’d pay you to see pictures. Until then, I’m reserving judgement. It looks good from what I can see so far.
I don’t agree with BK’s assertions either, maybe he’s trying to get a rise out of you.
Haha Andrew.M. The elephant and the goldfish ;-)
ha ha ha Watto
i beat you to saying the profit and loss stuff
Yeah, I was too busy typing a novel, lol.
yeah you would have started that one last night by the look of it
I don’t understand your comment here duck. Ford don’t need to spend 1 billion because the current Falcon floorpan is good enough…How will it of copyed Holden? It’s based on a Mondeo…No comment back from you.
BK: you say that VE sales are falling..?
If they were falling then how has Holden been able to maintain its position at the top of the sales charts over the last year?
I mean if VE sales were falling surely by now Holden would have been overtaken by Mazda and Ford as sales of the Mazda 6 and Focus continued to increase month after month.
Because sales the other cars in the Holden range have either plateaued/stabilised [Astra] or fallen [Barina]
The fact that Holden is still up there must mean that the VE sales have also increased month after month either by the same amount as the those behind it; if not more.
You also say that Ford always make samrt moves with their cars. However; Holden have ever had as much trouble selling Commodores as Ford did with the AU [excl FPV].
Toyn,
There is one thing all i know holden imitated ford is there headlights and thats all i know all of. So can you tell me others? Even though the new falcon may look european so does the commodore!
I mentioned the headlights, but not specifically to say VE copied BA. My point was to say a little copying (or similarity) is inevitable, there are only so many new ideas each generation. If someone comes up with a new idea like, say airbags, the rest have no choice but to follow suit.
I’m really not worried about VE headlights looking so similar to BA/BF because it is a nice design and the rest of the car is so different that I can still pick which is which from 100m down the road.
QUOTE BK = “We all know how good the Ford typhoon is and how holden doesnt even have a match for it. Wait till they bring the next GTHO out. That is gonna bring back memories like the XYGTHO did. Ford falcon will be the worlds faster 4 door sedan again soon. Holden is doomed as always. Bring it on Ford cause Ford is the only aussie car company that can do it.”
It is unlikely Ford OZ will claim that title any time soon (or Holden for that matter, unless they stick in a 12 litre Chev). You would have to beat BMW, Merc-Benz, Audi, all the Euro’s big guns. They cost more but unless our local muscle cars are willing to double their price we won’t touch them.
Wheelnut, I’ll go out on a limb and say that I don’t think many of us agree with BK’s statement.
BOB Says:
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:38 am
with the orion falcon getting new engines in 2010 have they confirmed any v8 yet, i ask this because motor mag says that the jaguar engine is what they will get but wheels says its the the new boss engines(hurricane). with these new engine they will more then likely drop the weight of the car. we could have a ford falcon gt with 320kw that only weights 1600kg or there abouts. or a typhoon with 309 kw with the twin force technology that would be nice.
I hope you’re right Bob. A lighter car will be an added bonus to a car which I anticipate is going to be formidable. Would be good if Ford could follow Mazda’s initiative in this respect.
Did someone say the new Falcon will be based on the same platform as the Mondeo? If this is so, the Falcon is going to be a beautiful drive. The Mondeo is unrivalled in its class, mainly because its chassis is so sweet. Ford are industry leaders in chassis dynamics which is why Focus, Mondeo, S Max and their subsidiaries – Landrover, Jaguar and Mazda2 are rated as the best in their respective categories.
The only worry for me is their chassis guru, Richard Parry Jones is retiring from the company this week. Can Ford continue to produce such fine handling cars in his absence?
George, it’s a test mule, just because it has no spoiler won’t mean it will never have one.
Ford GT, So you think the Orion will have a Mondeo platform? That means the GT will be a crappy FWD!! And there is no way the I6 will fit in as an East-West engine. So the I6 is allready dead in 2008.
We don’t want that do we?
….It won’t happen.
Not long now people till new falcon arrives. Its a winner like with all new falcons. Its gonna be better than all the rest.
ey Duck,
Holden have made a huge loss on there VE comodore and even 2007 isnt looking so good and even beyond that. Its all because people want smaller fuel efficient cars like Toyotas. Dont forget that Holden and Ford put together dont even come close to sales of Toyota. So duck wats yu answer to holden lossin out again. And ford will continue on makin faster 6 cylinders than yu imported slow v8s
ey wheelnut,
Ford do make better cars than holdens. Even the BF is a much better car than the VE in a lot of areas. And I know that when the new falcon comes out it will be miles ahead better than a commydore. Stick to your alloytec engine I prefer a 6 speed auto and 190 Barra anytime.
it may not be a gt or gt-p because there is no wing it could be a force 8….
ey watto_cobra.
Ford wouldnt have a problem in building a car that can beat all the others. Ford only make cars that are desired by people not worrying about setting world records anymore. Ford have done it before and can easily do it again. Records are meant to be brocken and Ford will not have a problem in doing it again. Holden only have a record in car recalls hahahaha
BK,
both ford and holden make cars that are just as efficient as toyotas.
aarrrrrrhhhhhh what is it with peoples perceptions about toyotas being more efficient than anyone else?
Did BK mention efficiency???
Or anyone for that matter?
JBOT…good point, dare say it will be improved but still not at Aurion / Camry levels!
mitch, it’s a test mule for testing the V8 in a Falcon, it’s not any exact model. The rear wing is un needed and/or was still under development at that time.
Crap. I stated on the ZR6 Sportivo blog that I’ve just started accurately measuring the fuel economy of my AU.
You know, that blog where TP said I attacked MASH ???
Well, I finally filled up after 790kms. 7.8L/100kms.
That was driving economically about 40/60 city/country. I was leisurely accelerating, using the 4.0L I6′s huge torque to get up to speed, and not holding anyone else up (unless it’s a boy racer, haha). Also getting off the throttle early and using half the braking effort/distance (which helps the rotors last longer).
This next tank of juice I’ll be switching back to my normal driving style .ie. heavy-footed. I’ll bet I get NO WORSE than 10L/100kms. What is the Aurions official ADR figures? 9.9L/100kms if I remember correctly (how convenient). I now LAUGH when someone suggests a Falcon is thirsty and an Aurion is not.
Watto, I have no idea how you get your consumption so low. I’ve got an AUIII and BF Mk2 in the family, and both average about 16L/100km, which admittedly is mostly city/suburb driving. I don’t believe you are doing 40% city driving and getting 7.8L/100km, when I get about 7-7.5 on a highway driving for economy (const. speed, etc).
Jbot,
well actually yes BK did mention efficiency. didnt you see it?
I also dont know how you get 16L/100 out of friends cars. i smash that on LPG
16L/100??? Geez, I’m never come near that.
But perhaps I should’ve labelled it “large town” rather than “city”. Albury isn’t a huge place :-)
But that’s no joke what I got. As I said, I was driving carefully for economy, just to see what I’d get compared to how I normally drive, which is what my next tank will measure.
Now, in 7 years I know I’ve never gotten less than 580kms on a full tank and have never put more than 60L into my car, which is why I said I’m sure I’ll get no worse than 10L/100kms (point something) even with my heavy right foot. Again, approximately 40/60 large-town/country driving.
I didn’t realise you had two Falcons in the family Jbot.
Hey Andrew.M, I got a figure for my old EB on gas. 17.3L/100kms. As I said, she is pretty tired. On LPG prices at the moment, my AU is almost on par for cents/km.
Mine spend most of their time in stop-start rush hour traffic, so its at the worse possible end of the spectrum. They are good on the highway though. The BF Mk2 hasnt got that many kms on it, so it will prob improve on those figures. it was a 2005 bought new last year with about 12k off the rrp. best way to buy a car!
Jbot,
anything idling in traffic will chew the juice large or small.
i get 16L/100k out of my falcon when im towing a tonne and on the route that doesnt go over 60kmh plus it has a few inclines.
with out the trailer im looking more like 10L/100k
yep buying with last years plate is a great way to save a few $$$$. IMO the only way to buy them for personel use
Watto,
when the AU becomes the daily driver why not throw a good gas system on her??????
oh yeah mine is also a dedicated model too so it would be tuned to run a bit better than a conversion.
I was pretty sure yours was either an E-gas or a dedicated gas model Andrew.M. XR8 ute isn’t it? Which means aftermarket dedicated gas. Dual-fuel is not too good.
When I get my new ‘phoon, I may consider putting the AU on gas, if prices are seasonal and don’t constantly go up.
Jbot, yep stop/start rush hour would hurt, of course, but I rarely experience such bad traffic (or I’d go postal). I avoid Melbourne and Sydney at all costs.
I’ve gone as far as to make a spreadsheet to keep records and calculate my fuel figures (litres/100kms and cents/litre based on the current price).
I’m doing this because I’m sick of people saying Falcons are thirsty, and I want my own real world proof. In your situation Jbot, I could understand someone getting a smaller car, great for stop/start. In mine, the Falcon with it’s highway legs and torque for towing, suit me perfectly.
What figures do you get in your falcon mate?
^7.8L/100kms
Yeah, 7.8 driving easy, but I normally drive heavy-footed, so until I have accurate results I’m thnking 10L/100kms normal driving.
Remember the Falcon has allways had good fuel consumption for a 6-cylinder car.
The first Falcon in 1960(XK), Ford claimed it did 30mpg – Great figures for a 6 cylinder at that time.
The OHV X-Flow is the engine that killed the Holden red motors in the 80s, fuel consumption was one of the reasons.
Look at that!!! I got the 500th comment!
Hopefully the Orion Falcon will have even better figures due to the high fuel prices.
Yeh Watto, thats why I do drive a smaller car haha. Dad needs the Falcon for towing his 4.8m boat, the other is the old tow vehicle which stayed in the family.
Yep Jbot, different horses for different courses. If I rarely ventured outside a city, I’d consider a small diesel hatchback, say Focus or I30. I like my big car for what I want tho ;-)
Oz, I’d like to see the Orion have DI, more power and even better economy, but it’s highly doubtful since it’s going in 2010 :-( Maybe it’ll have DI e-gas? I’m hoping but kinda doubtful too tho.
Watto,
DI-gas may very well be on the selling list.
the reason i havent upgraded yet is im hanging for it.
if i went back to petrol the prices would kill me and if i got the current BF dedicated it means only a 4sp auto :(
if they put the manual box or the ZF6 i would prob be more keen.
also just knowing a much better gas system sits around the corner i just cant help myself but wait.
my current is actually a dedicated model. its the XLS not the XR8. The XLS is pretty much the poor mans XR6. it has the XR suspension and interior etc. the only thing it misses out on is the XR lights. if the rain ever stops up here i must give it a bath and post a pic on the forum
Andrew M, It had stoped raining in BNE, but more is on it’s way!
The XLS is more like the Futura ute, It looks good with the chrome on it though.
If the forum gets going again, lol. I was starting to enjoy it. BM was going nuts on there. I think she had 35 posts before I had 2, lol.
Hmm, who was it with an XR8 ute then??? Been up since 4:30am because I had to go into work today. Bit fuzzy.
I’m hoping there WILL be DI gas, and even more, that it’ll be in XR6T and ‘phoon. High hopes, I know ;-)
OZ,
you are on drugs mate ha ha ha ha
XLS is more the sports side than the futura side. it is definately the poor mans XR (or the smart mans due to the lower price tag)
and where’s this “chrome”
yeah the rain will come again.
got friends over in redlands and was there for new years actually.
so i know you r getting plenty of rain over there too
Im averaging 12.9L/100kms in my 2003 BA XR6 5 speed manual.
What kind of driving BK? City/country? Bitta both?
Andrew M, I mean the chrome strips on BA XLS ute on the tail gate, etc.
BK, if that’s a five speed, wonder what the six speed auto’s fue; figures be?
People what are you talking about???
This car will be worthless in 5 years.. Just look at any German manufactured cars from models from 1980 – 1995 Bmw, Audi, golf, or any another is looks much better than this latest ford or commodore. Even in next 15 years BMW 1995 will looks much better than 2019 Ford/Holden.
People in Germany giving away same cars, as in Australia selling for $5000
Australia is rich country with no own cars. Even Czechoslovakia has SKODA.
RGHS
OZ,
you mean just the XLS letters that are on the tail gate? yes they are chrome
Bitta both
3 Questions
1. If European cars are so good tell me why Aussie built sedans i.e The F6 Typhoon are achieving better 400m and acceleration times than the Ferrari’s and Mercedes’ fastest cars from little over 8 years ago. An F6 Typhoon hoses down the ‘Great” Ferrari 348ts with 5.3 second to 100km/h where the 348ts can only manage a 6.4 to 100 km/h. The F6 also thrashes the Italian ‘supercar’ down the 400m. If you say that the new Falcon will get hosed down by the Ferrari’s of today all I’ve got to say is GT-HO
2. The new Falcon is expected to come in Diesel, LPG and Petrol models. The LPG is expected to have and average consumption of just over 13 litres per 100km. The Diesel (if introduced) will have 7.9 litres per 100km. The petrol I6 will have a rough consumption of 9.8 litres per 100km. Post 2010 the F6 Typhoon is expected to have a 324kw Twin-Turbocharged V6 Duratec 35. The V6 is expected to meet Euro IV compliance. With higher and shorter dimensions the Falcon should meet City Driver requirements
3. How can these Ford bashers say that there are any better alternatives at the moment than the current BFII Falcon and future Orion Falcon. Lets look at the alternatives.
-Holden VE Commodore
- 3 recalls including a recall of every V6 powered Commodore because of “Fuel Line Complications” they only found the problem because a few ‘spontaneously combusted’.
- The styling cues of the VE are much like the BA – BF i.e The Headlights, Body Shape and Grille.
- The GTS has only 5 kw more power than the current Falcon GT
– Toyota MY07 Aurion
- It’s a rebadged Camry
- $45000 will buy you a luxury but very slow and unreliable 6 Cylinder Camry
- Only a mother could love that car
- The TRD Aurion is a Terd at $56990 (It’s a slow wannabe XR6 Turbo)
(Please don’t tell me you’re dumb enough to buy a Subaru or another Ricer)
Before you question my sources have cross checked and compared them.
PS: Duck and you other Red Lion Beachballs have no idea what you are talking about. Published sales are nowhere near the real deal. I’ve worked at atleast 5 car companies. They all exaggerate their sales. Talk about something when you get your facts right. Don’t forget how many people would trade in their VE’s because of the countless recalls looming around the corner.
GTHO
No Ford badges are chrome they are all just heavy metals finished to resemble chrome
Very true 460kw Falcon GT, GM Daewoo Holden Red Lion lovers hate facts, the thing that effects them the most is branded performance underdogs, but Holden don’t want to see sales drop so the company will fool the public with advertising, showing Holden brand as been more Australian than Ford, that is one of the major problem’s with attitudes within our car industry, if you holden people think your VE is top notch, come to me after the 4th recall and bring some facts and some thoughts while you drive or drove out of that Holden mechanic shop contemplating the bad purchase you unfortunately made………..
WTF Andrew M? LOL!
Yes the XLS bage is in chrome, but there is a chrome strip on the tail gate.
460kw,
does the GTS really have 5kw more than the GT? I ask because from what i have read the 302kw for the GT was achieved on regular unleaded whilst the GTS was on premium.
has anyone seen the GT dyno’d with premium in her? from my calcs with premium the GT should put out more than 307KW.
but either way i ask the question if it was 5kw in either direction would you really notice it when you are talking over 300kw anyway?
Greg,
the VE has had 4 recalls.
also as you illude to about sales fudging,
i remember quite a while ago when toyota and holden were neck and neck battling for the lead both sides were actually Pre-registering vehicles and letting them sit in the yard because apparently that counts for a sale on the chalk board.
have you ever wondered why holden has so many sales/promos starting with “Free Rego”. hell rego without CTP is only worth 300 bucks!!!! yet they can call it a sale before the consumer enters the yard.
toyota and holden have been known to play that game
Andrew M, you did see the post I did didn’t you? :)
Anybody gonna lay down bets of when holden will have there next recall. I reckon April will be there next recall again.
Haha, there’s no GT there! where’s the big rear wing?
you can hardly see anything with those bloody covers on, and if it looks anything like the mondeo, it will looks freckin Sweet! and for those who think it look ugly or a reconstructed AU “yet again” your full of shit, there was no reconstucted AU, the BA-BF looks shitloads different.
I bet when Ford release the new model, it will be one of the best looking rides around, and 50 cent, will now want a Falcon!
Oz trust me there are no such think as chrome badges from ford. Not even the Cobra badges were metal.
Sorry 460kw Falcon GT…….I just walked downstairs and checked! They are metal!!!!!!!Straight out of the Mustang parts bin ……but there metal!
I thought most badges were plastic with a chrome finish on top.
460kw Falcon GT, When did I say anything about the chrome bages? I mean the plastic strips with chrome finish on top.
Watto…..your right though most are………
Like on the old KA Laser, the chrome on the old Ford bages have faded and showing it’s just plastic :(
yep OZ……..LIKE THOSE!
You don’t seem to be spending time on the Forum!
Talk about chrome fading off the plastic…… The Camira I had (I know, I know, HAD remember…) the chrome had worn off the plastic headlight reflectors.
Even after puttin 90/120W globes in, you’d be better off with a pair of candles on the front.
hahaha……you just reminded me of something……
I remember driving down from the goldfields with my brother….yep he had a VL…..EXECUTIVE….!!!!!
On the way to catch a plane for the Summernats…….
lights were that bad……..I had the mag light out the window…….TRUE!!!!!HAHAHA…..still think its funny…….not at the time!
Don’t forget the Number plate covers when they fade, it becomes illigal.
I know BMw, I had a look and there is alot of interesting stuff on the forum and I forget to say something. I’ll get to it.
Yep, good old days. One time I visited friends and stayed longer than I meant to, after dark.
Problem was I was wearing my prescription sunglasses and forgot my regular glasses. Add that to the Camira’s WOEFUL headlights, I’m lucky I made it home alive, hahaha.
The best Falcon ever will be the ORION after the good old E series Falcon and Barra;)…………10X better than Holden! at least its home engineered and Australian!
Holden cars are just a RE-BADGE …. they are all derrived from BUICK , CHEV , OPEL and VAUXHALL , while the Ford Falcon as we know it is actually designed in Broadmeadows factory and Geelong!……………..i have the proof that a stock EB Falcon 4Litre auto is on par with performance with TRD Aurion yes , 148kW or rearwheel driven power vs 241kW of front wheel drive!…….the EB to BFII 4Litre simply leads by 2 to 5 car lenghts!
Hahahaha yeah its in par… IDIOT…. my 10 year old V6 Camry is superior to your POS EB, forget the regular Aurion…. forget the TRD.
And by the way …. Ford and Holden “Chev” … dont make shitty V8s …. as you all know they are DE-TUNED in the factory ,…. say that stock BOSS260 actually makes 320-330kW “thats the NATURE of an engine” , but its been limited via its FIRMWARE/ECU and intake mainfold/outtake, its been superfine tuned to 260kW/500Nm , same goes for the BOSS290 and for 302. If we think of it this way…
A typical Barra220/230 and Boss engines have 2704cc per engine bank , thats say 130kW per 2704cc ……… but in fact each one of these massive engine banks each with 4 cylinders in fact makes at least 150kW per bank resulting in something like 300-320 kilowatts! … close to 700Nm in all theories!
So if you see a stock Barra220 XT dont be surprised … those things actually generate 280-300kW out of a stock 5.4 3V , and on the other side that engine was specifically designed for TORQUE , so if some Lexus is only a 5Litre and it makes 300+ kW …. so what? it will never ever have the same ammount of torque as the 3V Barra220 and Boss260 …… wake up the Boss 260 makes 452Nm at just 1500rpm !!! and the Barra220 makes 411Nm at just 1000rpm , thats way more than the 6Litre GEN4 makes at 1000rpm … thats just to prove to you that its naturally designed to reve lower and produce more at low RPM………………. and we all know we are not kids … that for example the:
TRD Aurion , regardless of a supercharged can still be eaten by a stock VN SS with only 165kW/388Nm
and that:
a stock say Falcon EF Taxi on GAS can still beat it.
and that even an older now 2.2Litre Astra manual 2002 model or later can eat it too;)
So ……. come on people , just try to look at the engine size in CCs and CU … work out the POWER per CC and then think about it … whats better , a naturally aspirated 300kW engine or a forced induction “supercharged” 3.5 which is forcing its size to compesate for displacement and act as if its a 4.5Litre or 4.8Litre by increasing the air pressure in the cylinder.
Lets face the fact.
the bigger the enigne , the less power and torque it makes , the MORE RELIABL it is!
By all laws of physics , the typical say GLi EL 4Litre should make 250-280kW and 500Nm , or the Winsdor 165kW in EL should make 300kW……
but they were de-tuned heavily! for LONG LIFE and reliability!
for every day user , from below the middle class to the richest dude!
So think about it …
should you get a say 2nd hand XR8 Falcon 5 speed manual 260kW/500Nm 5.4 DOHC for $19000 somewhere made in 2003.
Or a brand new TRD or SS Commodore …
i mean its a waste of cash for those two … get the Falcon … the 2003 XR8 with 5 speed still has the young spirit in it … so really … just think about the engine technology used in BOSS and think about the SIZE/POWER…
the smaller the more power = the better , but LESS RELIABLE!!
so cheers!
The 10 year old Camry is not superior…. its a small 3Litre … which doesnt even make the 1.3 of the stock EAII to BFII torque or power at 5000rpm of its RPM.
At the end of the day … the stock EAII 3.9 beats a stock AURION that makes 200kW or 208kW on premium vortex 98 … i’ve dragged dozens of V6 Camries … and they had no chance … they were all beaten of the lights in the 1st gear which tends to lead towards 95km/h in all E series Falcons….. … your CAMRIY hasnt got the VVTI or VCT like all BAs so dont say that its more superior to the Falcon … and by the way stop being abusive you have no character.
You have no education , therefore you are using force here as your defence… you have no character ;)
And by the way ……………. regardless of our all 4Litre engines being tuned to run on RON91………. regardless of the computer software/firmware or bios how ever you want to call it/ECU etc etc….
if you use RON98 on Falcons such as EAII, EB,EBII,ED,EF,EFII,EL,AU,AUII,AUIII.BA,BAII,BF,BFII … all these stock 4Litres make the power and torque figures on RON91 “the weakest” poorest fuel! …….
Even if you run the on 98 … you wont get much more … but … still the FUEL is FUEL and OCTANE is an OCTANE … therefore software/ECU can not stop it from combusting … so technically a stock EL GLi or BA MkII 4Litres would make 170-175kW and 200-205kW easy! … and speaking of torque … the GLi EL would touch 400Nm , while the BA MkII would make close to 410Nm ..
thats when you run a stock 4Litre OHC and DOHC on RON98 premium fuel.
No Joke…………., if they were TUNED to run on RON98 , then the power/torque figures would be much higher. by at least 5%-10%…….
at the end of the day … have a think………….
its a 4Litre engine we are talking about , FOUR LITRES!!! there is so much UNTAPPED power in those cylinders!
;) so much untapped power;)
Seriously;)
Oh what a shock hes over here to making Toyota waves.
Hey BF11……..you not going to win with this guy……..even just trying to make a valid point gets ignored…..Been arguing with Toyota extremists all morning on the TRD Hilux blog.
Dont worry theres more of us that side with you than with him….
Bavarian Missile LOL …. man … what can you do … how can they compare a stock Camry made in 1995-1997 with only 3Litre mere 141kW and not even 300Nm to go agains the big 4Litre…
even an old EA GL with carby can beat the 3.0Litre Camry or Avalong or MAGNA up to 3.5Litres any day wahahahaha
I have the proof and its the FACT … not an opinion … i am not being objective here … people wake up!
any STOCK FACTORY Ford Falcon from EAII , from EAII with 3.9Litres 139kW/339Nm MPFI , to EB and EBII with 148kW/348Nm 4Litre MPFI , to EF to AUIII with 157kW/357Nm from BA 182kW/380Nm and BF 190kW/383Nm……….
any one of those 3.9Litre EFI to 4.0Litre EFI OHC and DOHC Falcons can beat , and i mean beat any STOCK Holden/Toyota/Mitsubish production car.
i have the proof.
say for example
EAII,EB,EBII,ED,EF,EFII,EL,AU,AUII,AUIII,BA,BAII,BF,BFII 4Litre Falcons can beat the following cars.
All and every single Holden 4 cylinder I6 and V8 build from the 1957 to 1980.
Every single 4 cylinder car , from Gemini , Barina to Camira, from the VB commodore to the VL Commodore.
The Stock 3.9L and 4L Falcons win in every way.
from the VN to VS , regardless of being a V6 or a stock 5Litre V8 up to 165kW.
from VT to VZ and VE.
any stock 3.9Litre SIX CYLINDER Falcon and a 4Litre Falcon can beat any V6 or SIX or V8 Commodore ever build.
Apart from the 215kW 5Litre and 5.7 , and specifically VYII with 235kW….
for some stranger reason the GENIII is weak … and a stock 4Litre Falcon can keep up with it due to its poor low end torque and short reve till the red line.
So any newsich E series Falcon from 1989 to 2008 can eat completelly eat alive any V6 Toyota , Mitsubishi or a Holden.
How about this?
a stock EF with over 500000ks on the clock on GAS to beat the brand new VE SV6 by 2 car lenghts on the take off at the traffic lights?
i mean come on wake up!
why?????
its 157kW of de-tuned 4Litre vs 195kW of not so restricted Aloytec ….
come on wake up people!!!
seriously.
there is no car that a six INLINE 6 Falcon as STOCK cant beat.
i am surprised that a stock Barra182 which you can buy for $9999 now can beat a 220/225kW GENIII 5.7Litre VT and VX SS Commodores.
i mean why?????
I know why.
But i will be ignored as usual here;)
because people have no arguments to back up againts me … lack of knowledge i know;)
at the end of the day … there is no better car to drive in our beautiful land! but a Ford Falcon I6.
yes! any Ford Falcon from 1989 to 2008 , they are simply the best Falcons ever!
;) torque/power but TORQUE 1st;) ….
FORD RULES!
But seriously….
if the stock BF/BFII XT makes massive 383Nm at just 2500rpm … i mean lets be real … what does teh TRD Aurion make … at 2500rpm with its so called Supercharger which i also believe is restricted;)
say it makes not even 300Nm … ahaha …
just get the XT Falcon BA-BF and give it a VORTEX Supercharger…
you’ll get the true power the FOrd is suppose to make … the 340-350kW … and over 600Nm from a 4Litre easy …. and thats again RESTRICTED for quality/driveability.
;)
ahahaha … i mean really … the is NO BETTER CAR than FALCON
i am so so happy! to see the new ORION on its way … and thats why i am buying one! when it comes out!
BFII I have to agree with you the Falcon I6 engines are masterpieces in their own realm of performance. I own two cars one of them being an EF with 163kw stock trim. Now you have apoint on the torque and power basis but I must say that is not the only reason. Once upon a time Falcons weighed a measely 1600 kg what really makes me mad is the way lightness and agility must be sacrificed in the upmarket GT and F6 models. I love the Blue Oval don’t get me wrong but if the new designers knew anything about us real Ford fans they would know we are waiting for the return of 1600kg Falcons. If the GT weighed 1600kg it would have a power to weight ratio of 188.75kw/tonne. That is enough to manage 13.2 400m times and 4.9 second to 100km/h. Keep the roomy Futura, XT, Fairmont, Fairlane etc. but lighten the barge ass performance models. One more thing, Ford Australia must be crazy, they haven’t released a Falcon based coupe’ since the Cobra.
Can I ask where the lighter versions of the performance Falcons have gone. I mean only 12 years ago it was 1600 kg GT\\\’s instead of 1850kg \\\’GT\\\’. The Falcon is not a 4×4 so please tell me why it looks like one based on statistics. One more thing why are there no coupe\\\’ hardtop falcons anymore. What happened to the real Falcon Grand Tourer. The GT badge should mean something not be a name if it wears the badge make it a Grand Tourer. A GT should be on a level between Sports Car and Supercar. It should be on a tier between the Porsche 911 and the Lamborghini Gallardo. Don\\\’t say it\\\’s impossible 200kgs lighter and 7kw more its an Audi R8. A 1600 kg Orion GT woulb be world class. Faster than a new GT-R and a power to weight ratio of 200kw/tonne, thats R8 minus .2 seconds down the quarter mile. With the right aerodynamics kit maybe faster.
Is that TP Toyota guy 5 foot tall with no pubic hair or just stupid.
ok people you guys need to calm down… the I6 is a great engine… i my self own a 2004 XR6… great Engine…. yes you will beat things off the line because of the torque the engine has and how early it has it…..
But Base XR6 vs TRD Aurion…. me sorry to say the Aurion will win…. the extra power of the thing will run down the Stock inline…. yes the inline will get off the line quick and go but the extra power will run in down….
VE SV6 vs BFII XR6…. would be close… i dont think it would a flogging either way till the orion arrives….
Again the main issue with the Falcon is wieght…. its all about power to wiegh my friend….
for example my mates 2003 WRX 2.0litre turbo 4… has less power and less torque…. yes i do just get him of the line but after 50metre he has ran me down and us starting to pull away…. this is stock for a WRX…..
yes againest Some V8s yes again you will bet them off the mark…. as a V8 builds up to speed…. and the extra power will run down the Stock I6….
again the I6 is agreat engine but you need to be realistic with ya claims….
Aurion…. good engine bad choice on drivetrain(FWD) we get at this stage 190Kw out of a 4litre I6 and they get 200Kw out of a 3.5 litre V6….. and the thing is they dont need as much torque as not as muck wieght…. if RWD it would of been a great car but its FWD,,, so yea…
I have argued a long time with some BA XT owners…
the stock EL GLi with 157kW and restricted engine to a COMPUTER TORQUE CONTROL … beats a stock I6 XT BA by almost one full second for 0-100km/h times and up to 1 second anywhere in between
because the stock EL is basically almost 200kg lighter…. when working it all out … the I6 DOHC is more economical and technically 3-5% more fuel effecient…yet they all have the same block , pistons , piston rings the crank and flywheel and if a 4speed auto … the 4 speed auto in EAII to BA MkII is basically the same.
ANOTHER THING…………………
The camrys 200kW on 3.5Litre …. i mean people what are you on about!
we are talking about the FACTORY specs here.
we know that the stock BA-BF engines produce 220-230kW as stock!
besides the fact , they are 4LITRE 3984cc just like all 4Litre blocks in the past!
;)
the Camry 3.5 produces 208kW the most out of its 3.5Litre engine , and will never be able to reach that magical number of 350Nm of torque or more
at the end of the day … the more torque the better.
the power is only the reaction time of the engine , in a given ammount of time , on a NON incline surface , the more power the faster the car.
but … once we are talking weight and hills and angled climbs …
torque plays its part
and when it comes to TALL gearing … the torque plays its part too.
take one car for example.
the Ford Falcon BFII Fairmont Ghia Barra230.
it has 230kW@5350rpm , 500Nm of torque from 2750-3500rpm
that car in the 6th gear cruises at almost 130km/h at only 1500rpm in 6th.
Clearly showing that TORQUE is what KEEPS the momentum and the inertia of the vehicle trough the gears/wheels.
the force that acts up on the gears in the gearbox is much greater than that force that is acting in the TRD Aurion or stock CAMRY
therefore
the stock I6 Falcon will always be a stroger car than any V6 out there .
at the end of the day the stock Ba182 is a better car than every singe SIX out there.
its all about the torque … in the name of God the stock 182kW Barra makes 360Nm at just 1500rpm … get your facts straight people.
Its the best SIX cylinder engine on earth … they do 1000000kms … very reliable.
AND YOU ALL KNOW.
___________________
all Fords 4Litre engines are de-tuned and fine tuned….
to figures we all know like ….. 182kW at 5250rpm.
or 380Nm at 3250rpm … or 383 at just 2500rpm ….
but really …. the 4LITRE DOHC makes 220-230kW at 5500-6000rpm … or 400-420Nm at 3500-4000rpm
totally de-tune … fine tuned by factory for reliability and long life.
The camry is only 10kW more powerful , but its 40-50Nm shorter on torque.
The Falcons weight is not really an issue.
It gains momentum and speed , forced by torque which pushes the gear ratios really hard.
therefore the body of BA/BF travells with more energy …
therefore … the BA and BF AUTOMATIC Falcons will beat the Aurion of the lights …
and lead by 2 car lenghts at least …
once 100-120km/h is reached … the Falcon will lead towards the 180-200km/h territory making it impossible for Aurion to overtake and beat.
the Falcon BA/BF would lead by at least 10-15 car lenghts .
This is the fact.
I know that for the fact.
There was no car that could beat me of the line apart from some manual i dont know freaking SS with 270kW or 307kW GTS…
but so far … no commodore or toyota would ever beat the cars i owned such as ED , EF , EL , AUII and BA ….
its just not happening.
I agree with the BFII, all these stock family sedans have detuned engines in them, gettin the powerchip is a good proof that the actual BA motor makes more than 200KW and over 400NM torque.
GOOD POINT BFII whats ur name man?
cya
Ford rules by the way!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAh…. this has to be the best poster yet!
Mate you must be alittle bit slow in the brain, ALL passenger vehciles are detuned from the factory to get fuel efficiency. The Aurion engines could very well get 220kw, but then it wouldnt be the most efficient car in its class then. Indeed the direct injection variant of the Aurions engine… with good fuel efficiency… gets 230kw and 400Nm… meanwhile your chipped Falcon would get 15L plus per 100km, spew out black smoke as it runs rich and lasts 50,000km and breaks down. You sound completely naieve, you think your EA can beat an Aurion ffs, the Aurion is half a second quicker then the current Falcon to 100 which has alittle more troque and WAAAAAAAAAAAY more power (granted it weighs more, but this is easily offset by all that extra power and torque)!!!!!!! I posted a link to a video of a race between Aurion v Falcon v Commodore v 380, the Aurion smoked them all. In fact here it is, not some claims by you but facts:
http
://aurionv6.com.au/toyota/aurion/#aurionV6/features/acceleration
(I seperate http because if I didnt the post would ‘await moderation’, jus copy and paste it all)
A recent test had the Aurion at 100 in 6.9 seconds compared to the Falcon at 7.5seconds (not suprising, more powerful… less weight… more power to wheels with FWD set up). These are the facts.
The TRD is also no slouch, its been said from a rolling start it can keep up with the V8s, granted it wont beat them 0-100km/h (but hey, we are talking in the SS’s case nearly double the capacity… superchargers usually only add in capacity terms a L).
To complete you then mention reliabilty… sorry but 55% of Falcons need to go back the dealership within 6months, another FACT… with one of hte major causes being engine related. On top of this there is no real evidence that Falcons are reliable, Toyotas and in particular the Camry on the other hand…. WORLD RENOUNDED FOR RELIABILITY.
In conclusion… your arguments are total fluff. You say the Falcon weight is not an issue it on top of all other things highlights your lack of knowledge. That extra torque the Falcon has is offset by its weight, nearly 200kg heavier then Aurion (alot of extra weight)… torque is pulling power afterall, the Falcon has to pull more, so its torque advantage isnt so much an advantage over a lighter car is it!
btw with that video click on features and find the white dot over engine, click for the video. Daylight between Aurion and others!
Grrrrrrrrrrrr the post is awaiting moderation!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAh…. this has to be the best poster yet!
Mate you must be alittle bit slow in the brain, ALL passenger vehciles are detuned from the factory to get fuel efficiency. The Aurion engines could very well get 220kw, but then it wouldnt be the most efficient car in its class then. Indeed the direct injection variant of the Aurions engine… with good fuel efficiency… gets 230kw and 400Nm… meanwhile your chipped Falcon would get 15L plus per 100km, spew out black smoke as it runs rich and lasts 50,000km and breaks down. You sound completely naieve, you think your EA can beat an Aurion ffs, the Aurion is half a second quicker then the current Falcon to 100 which has alittle more troque and WAAAAAAAAAAAY more power (granted it weighs more, but this is easily offset by all that extra power and torque)!!!!!!! I posted a link to a video of a race between Aurion v Falcon v Commodore v 380, the Aurion smoked them all. In fact here it is, not some claims by you but facts:
[LINK IS HERE, WILL SHOW UP WHEN OTHER POST PASSES MODERATION…. it shows the Aurion winning comfortably over quarter mile against all large car competitors
(I seperate http because if I didnt the post would ‘await moderation’, jus copy and paste it all)
A recent test had the Aurion at 100 in 6.9 seconds compared to the Falcon at 7.5seconds (not suprising, more powerful… less weight… more power to wheels with FWD set up). These are the facts.
The TRD is also no slouch, its been said from a rolling start it can keep up with the V8s, granted it wont beat them 0-100km/h (but hey, we are talking in the SS’s case nearly double the capacity… superchargers usually only add in capacity terms a L).
To complete you then mention reliabilty… sorry but 55% of Falcons need to go back the dealership within 6months, another FACT… with one of hte major causes being engine related. On top of this there is no real evidence that Falcons are reliable, Toyotas and in particular the Camry on the other hand…. WORLD RENOUNDED FOR RELIABILITY.
In conclusion… your arguments are total fluff. You say the Falcon weight is not an issue it on top of all other things highlights your lack of knowledge. That extra torque the Falcon has is offset by its weight, nearly 200kg heavier then Aurion (alot of extra weight)… torque is pulling power afterall, the Falcon has to pull more, so its torque advantage isnt so much an advantage over a lighter car is it!
I don’t know where TP gets his sources I mean with 200kw the Aurion actually somehowa does beat the BFII on power. The BFII only has 190kw factory. By the way I would like to see the proof that the Aurion is not using an imported Asian engine. All the commercials say Aussie V6 but I don’t think so. I mean Holden doesn’t make any of their engines any more but at least they don’t say they are Aussie. But hey why argue with Toyota loving dickheads I mean none of them have skuls thin enough to think. Stop talking if you can’t get your facts straight you sensitive little dicked bastard. Besides the Aurion was always going to win that comparo drag. Please try that again when the new Falcon comes out. If you actually knew your facts you would know that it is in the first six months that 60% of ALL new cars sold go back for services. Like I’ve said before come to me when you get your facts straight. BFII also has some good FACT based theories. An object no matter what it is will continue to climb in speed until it reaches terminal velocity UNLESS it is limited in the case of some cars. An unlimited BA182 engine can easily reach 270km/h while the 5.4 DOHC V8 unlimited can blow out the top speed of a Murcielago unlimited at 340km/h. See BFII knows what he is talking about not like TP. By the way does that stand for toilet paper or TOTAL POOF?
LMAO!…..
i am talking FACTORY CARS here.
i know that AURION makes 10kW more than BFII XT …
but it lacks torque …
TORQUE is derrived from POWER and RPM.
the stock 4Litre DOHC or the engines from EF-EL AU-AUIII can do 1000000km …
thats why TAXIES are all FORD FALCON.
Cheap , reliable , powerful , deliver more down torque and upper torque. They last for ever.
Take a typical buick Commodore 3.8L or a 3.6 , service it … and change the oil/oil filter.
take it for a 1000km drive … check the oil levels and see that it burnt almost half a litre of oil.
Take a typical FALCON INLINE SIX froM EAII to BFII , and drive it for 20000 , and it wont even burn 10ml of oil.
At the end of the day … if the Ford Falcon OHC and DOHC engines can do 1000000 when serviced every 5000-10000km … and the V6 Camry engine can do a max of 500000 and buick 3.8 and ecotec and aloytec only 350000-400000 then you can safely increase power on the 4Litre engine.
the 4Litre is basically a big , large de-tuned engine which when de-tuned brings even more economy and reliability.
If the power is increased … it wont blow up after 500000 you idiot …
you are getting cocky and aggressive here , you have no character and all you can do is argue.
but you dont know what you are talking about.
How long do Toyota Camrys last in TAXI use? 120000-150000ks?
yea???
and a Falcon??? 550000-800000ks yea??
A commodore??? 200000 and then thrown away.
WAKE UP LOSER;)
check your facts … buy a Ford Falcon … they are a better car than a frontwheel drive Camry/Aurion.
They are no match.
190kW , but 383Nm of torque vs 339 of weak shit torque starting at 4500rpm … while the BA still makes close to 370Nm at 4500rpm .
You idiot.
Ford Falcons INLINE SIX is the most RELIABLE and the LONGEST LASTING engine in the world , after the Rolls Royce 6.75Litre V8 which can do close to 1500000kms.
Ford Falcon as stock XT BA or BA MkII \”same shit\” or BF or BFII can beat a TRD Camry.
what are you talking about.
rear wheel drive vs fornt wheel drive.
Give a Falcon a Mild cam , K&N, programmed ECU , extracors … get the power to 250-260kW , torue to 500Nm …
and it will use less fuel … because the engine would breathe and suck in more air burning it more effecienty.
You idiot.
CANT YOU SEE THAT OUR FALCONS ENGINE IS TOTALLY MUTED AND DE-TUNED , SHUT DOWN.
from its pure NATURE and arthictectual nature to actually make 220-230kW stock from the 3984cc it has.
dont you get it?
the V6 engines will never have the torque of an INLINE engine.
My name is Alex , anyway……
All i know is that … you can not compare a naturally large car , a family size car with tall gearing , with a lot of torque \”NATURALLY\” … fine tuned , smooth , comfortable.
You can not compare it with a TRY to be a large car , a front wheel driven car … that has all sorts of problems putting the power to the ground.
A small 3.5Litre V6 … which is FORCED … not technologically but with a SUPERCHARGED to compesate its poor quality.
Its like trying to say that the IBANEZ BTB1205 is better than a Sadowsky Precision P/J/.
The Ibanez BTB1205 is made in japan , its exotic and boutique , it relys on high tech pre-amp and pickups and bridge.
While the sadowsky has better more resonant and sensitive woods , it sings when yous peak in to it , it has passive \”orgainc traditional pickups\” its sweet and thunderous.
And it doenst rely on complex pre-amps and EQ like Ibanez.
So get your anologies straight idiot and examples.
At the end of the day if the Falcon BA is 200kg heavier … its all in its advanced IRS , its all in its tough floor pan , in its chasis.
At the end of the day … the BA SIX or a stock Barra220kW or Boss260 or Boss290 are the TRUE Australian made cars.
Designed here and created here by our people down under.
And even the Barra220 code named \”TRITON\” in use , used after it was 1st used in BA , in Ford F-150 trucks and Supercharged Lighting which is also de-tuned from 350kW to 278kW and 800Nm to 610Nm.
The Barra220 and Boss260/290/302 were specifically RE-CREATED for Australian FALCON BA Applications.
Therefore they are 100% AUSSIE! and speaking of the INLINE SIX , its even more AUSSIE!
at the end of the day we are gona lose our INLINE SIX because its so good , so sweet , so smooth and reliable.
Those engines dont break , therefore not many spare parts are sold.
So it will be removed and discontinued.
Not because of polution , but because its too good.
When the Duratec from a cyclone comes in to the ORION in early 2010 , that will be the death of a SIX CYLINDER FALCON…
but will be held strong with TWIN TURBO Typhoon \”ONLY\”
at 350kW/650Nm \” i heard \”
but………… the only FALCON ORION thats gona exist for me then will be the V8 version …
and i will be getting the very last BOSS model which will make 310kW/600Nm in late 2009.
CHEERS.
the stock ba182 can reach 275-280kmh if enabled
all fords sixes can do similar figure but at around 245-250kmh
even the old el gt 97 falcon with only 200kw from its gt40 head yet i hear many are talkin about detuning so i heard that the el gt 97 makes 240+ kw yet detuned by factory.
they say it can do only 235kmh , but in fact i owned one and i sold it in 2002 , it was able to clock the clock 250kmh easy and it was an auto.
hello people wake up and be easier on each other.
i owned a BA 2002 XT , i bought it in late 2002 december.
in 2006 i supercharged it non-intercooled. , it made 320KW, 689Nm “as it said on the dyno” at 4600rpm
STOCK no internals changed.The car had 185000ks when i supercharged , and i am quite happy that it lasted well in to 280000k mark.
no mechanical issues at all , and even the old 4 speed auto is holding up , no noises or sounds.
but i think i feel sad that i’ve sold the car , twenty five grand , but yea that was a sweet 4.5s flat auto BA supercharged!, the exhaust was a little damaged due to a lot of hot exhaust gasses generated due to more power output …but…………. it was all sweet.
i loved that car! and i am sure gona do the same on the ORION …
supercharge it , keep it stock so no one sees whats unde the bonnet and then lets see whos tryin to smoke me off the lights
HEY DUDE! I AGREE WITH YOU , YES YOU SAM! AND ANDREM!!!! AND THE 460KW GT FALCON!
MAN MUST BE CAPA SUPERCHARGED???????
??
LOL
CYA AROUND G2G
HERE IS A LOGICAL EXPLANATION IF THE BA/BF or ORION were gona be supercharged.
4Litre DOHC orion will have 200kW/385-400Nm of torque for sure.
the current 4Litre DOHC are 182/190kW “same engines” different ECU tune-up.
If you were to work out the power per CC on the TRD Aurion.
read this: 241kW/3500CC … “round figures” = 0.068watts per CC of the engione. yes 0.068watts per each and one of its 3500CC
now … as we have the POWER per CC from AURION TRD …
lets multiply that 0.068watts with say a round number of “4000CC” from an inline six engine from Ford.
you will get 0.068Watts x D for displacement = 275kW “round figures”
yes 275kW of power which is around 380Hp.
when it comes to torque … 400Nm/3500 = 0.11Nm per CC.
so 0.11 x 4000CC from Ford = 457Nm of torque on the 4Litre DOHC.
See??????
the Falcon would get more per CC … and its not even WORKED its STOCK + de-tuned to only 190kW at the moment.
But it makes more … as i said before the stock N/A engine from BA / BF make 220-230kW stock …
but i am talking if it was to be fine tuned with the same Supercharged pressure as AURION … it would be 275kW/460Nm … due to 4000CC
but we could yield out more because lets face it its an INLINE engine
the engine is not on an angle like 60 degrees or 75. its straight … using the full 9.89ms/ms of gravity x the mass of the piston …
therefore as the pistons go up and down in the cylider … the MASS/Acceleration of the earth and mass of the piston ADD to the torque/FORCE that acts up on the each and one CON ROD on to a CRANK SHAFT.
so technically all “V” engines do suffer from torque , but do have power.
Yet the INLINE engines that are STRAIGHT with no angles or leaning at 5 degrees or 15 or 60 in V form/configuration. Tend to have more torque.
So … the 4Litre Falcons DOHC engine has a lot of potential.
Yet it comes out the Factory as 190kW/383Nm ….
yes 383Nm … something they couldnt cover … yet the number still came out BIG … regardless of their DE-TUNING.
according to my calculations … the AURION is also de-tuned.
but as i said before NOT MUCH AT ALL…. the real loser here is FORD , because its 4LITRE is de-tuned.
Yet is a very powerful motor.
UNTAPPED ENGINE.
with at least 250kW to offer with extractors/ECU reprogramming , K&N air filter.
But when it comes to TORQUE … we are talking about getting over 500Nm , yes from a stock N/A 4Litre DOHC.
Its the fact … thats the ENGINES mechanical nature , thats its architectural ability.
But as i said … its been RESTRICTED!!!!! AND RUINED!!!
But it still outruns the Aurion/TRD Aurions.
Easy;)
I have driven an MkII XR6 2005 , manual ,and it did 260km/h as much as it was written on the speedo.
I was in the 6th gear , at little over 5500rpm , it had no problems getting to an easy 220km/h.
While all V8 Commodores and older 5Litre models including LS1 220-225kW Versions tend to hit the wall at either 110km/h and 200km/h
the Stock SIX Falcon since 1989-2008 … just keeps on going! … till it hits 240-250km/h for “EAII to AUIII” 4litre models.
get it.???
how many VPs and VNs and VS/VRs/VTs to VE V6es tried to drag me?
they would either be 3 cars behind me of half a car next to me … till 110km/h … till they hit the wall …
and what about the FALCON?
it still goes and moves close to 140 , 150 , 160km/h …. disappearing infront of the Commodore by 20-30 car lenghts.
Get it people.
Wake up.
Speaking of a 3Litre Camry cars , even 2.4Litre ones and 3.5Litre ones.
They simply have no chance.
And Magnas??? na … forget about them they are useless even the 380 is slower than the previous 3.5Litre 155kW version.
;) wa hahahahahaaha
regarding the inline 6 hitting 260km/h… so i take it has been chipped or something????
as the Stock XR6/XT engine Cut out at 200km/h…. stock
again you got to look at it this way…. ford XR6 190Kw… aurion 200kw…. the aurion more power… and less wieght no need for the Extra torque…
so dont go on that the engine is de tuned and sh*t… yes every engine can put out more then they are released with but they are usally released with that power for a reason….mainly reliabilty…..
Hey BFII just a quick question…. how old are ya?? and what Car do you Own/Drive????
all this going on about supercharging and tuning your 6s to go faster and beating this and that…. instead of doing all of this and just go buy a better car…. insd of driving around a turned I6…. why not drive around in a GT or Typhoon or something??? i think its usually cheaper and easier in the long run to just buy a new and better car.
Chopstar87 you dont know what you are talking about.
The XR6 i owned was not CHIPPED you uneducated person.
The car allready has a 32 processor installed with its FIRWARE on it ,…. it wasnt CHIPPED you dumb idiot!
thats a laick way of saying it! …. its been re-programmed … not to increase the Power/torque , but to eliminate the speed limit of 200km/h.
DUH!!!!!! … its just a small variable in the software that can be DISABLED for FULL speed and terminal velocity.
AND NOT POWER.
To increase power you need to re-programm everything , throttle responce , everything!
Why by a Typhoon F6 which also is de-tuned for $50000 , if you can get a BA XT Falcon , for $11999 and invest $5000-6000 in to the engine by SUPERCHARGING it …. SUPERCHARGING is better technology than TURBOCHARGING … in fact there is ZERO % LAG and power is there in no time.
At the end of the day … 200kg lighter or heavier means nothing.
We are talking about the things on the WHEELS and they are cars.
We all know that POWER is derrived from TORQUE you idiots ,
Power = Nm x rotational speed “RPM” x 2Pie / max engine RPM
you idiot!
what are you on about
10kW more on Aurion is only 13Hp … thirteen horse power
but less TORQUE
you dont get it.
dont you?
Stock 200kW Aurion is 1590kg-1630kg you idiot! + its front wheel drive vs a stock BA/BX XT of only 1620kg for the Base model.
Meaning that the AURION TRD weighs more than a FALCON…
even the stock 200kW weak shit that makes that power at 6200rpm which is just too high…. is 1590kg
10kW more means nothing …. it takes 2 seconds for AURION to reach that power under hard acceleration in that TIME the BA has allready beaten it by 5 car lenghts.
what are you on about
1620kg stock XT vs 1590kg front wheel drive shit.
idiot!
that 30kg more + frontwheel drive + 50Nm less torque.
you obviously have no idea about propulsion and traction or friction.
cars that PUSH perform better , better than cars that PULL
that are the front wheel driven vehicles you idiot!
a 120kW VP Commodore or EA Falcon GL can keep up with almost any front wheel driven car that has as much as 2x the power.
You obviously KNOW nothing about TORQUE and the twist/squeeze effect up on the GEARs and their RATIOs.
you have no clue about momentun , inertia , acceleration , you have no knowledge in basic physics to simply acknowledge that the stock now cheapo BA XT made in Septermber 2002 can beat a brand new $50000 Aurion TRD you idiot!
where is your character?
what are you on about you idiot.
you are dumn!
what are you blabling on about??????? dude wake up , yes you Chopstar87
idiot!
shame!
Educate yourself before you come here and comment;)
I had some trouble with my wireless keyboard. Therefore some spelling errors were maide.
cheers
_________________________________________________________
AT THE END OF THE DAY … THE FALCON BA182 and BA190 make 320Nm at just 1000rpm!!!!
yes 360Nm at just 1500rpm … no need to work hard , no need for a reve! like those shitty little front wheel driven try hard cars;) AHAHAHHA
_______________________________________________________
Its a shame that a stock 2.2Litre Astra SRi keeps up with a 3.5Litre TRD Aurion with only 336Nm at 4500rpm
while the stock BA makes 370Nm at 5000rpm , even at FIVE GRAND!!!!
even a stock EL GLi makes 350Nm at 2000rpm, AND 357 at 3000rpm WA HAHAHAHAAHAH
and totally destroys the stock crappy 200kW torqueless heavy try hard stock Aurion wa hahahahaha
__________________________________________________________
At the end of the day we are Australian we should support our technology!
i heard the orion xr8 is gona be at 280kw & 540nm and the gt is gona be at 310kw and 570nm thats for the 5.4 boss
bye
sorry correction
gt will be at 320kw and 580nm
sorry
mad!
I thought it was gona be just 310kW/570Nm.
i also heard that ORION is gona get the TERRITORY front suspension system accross the range!
I cant wait! to buy one! with Territory front suspension sytem! i heard its gona be much stronger than previous suspension on BA/BF
Alex.
580nm sounds more promising than what I herd before, something like 320kw & 550nm which really is a joke as it wouldn’t even be better than the current HSV nor the current F6.
So the GT V8 needs atleast 570nm & F6 Turbo 600nm.
HSV will use a 325+KW 6.2L after the VE or in the VE series2, so FPV need to stay more than 1 step ahead with engines with more power than HSV can get their hands on. The 6.2L HSV will use is expected to have atleast 575nm so that’s why the GT needs to be like that @ 570-580nm and F6 even better.
BFII….
you need to calm down champ…..
you are just seeing all from one angle thats all… yours…
Aurion is 1590Kg
BFII XT Auto 1694Kg
Aurion would have better power to wieght…..(100Kg) which is a lot when you think of it…. then you need to take in to your thoughts how may of people(wieght) in each car… so a car with one person Vs car with say 5 adults in it… and cars about the same power and of course the empty one would win!!! Power to wieght….
also they have been timed (both stock)
0-100km/h
Aurion 7.4sec
BFII 7.5sec
maybe the people you race think you are a try hard and just let you go…lol…
so the limit has been taken off… so it has been modified….
With regarding the F6/GT comment
Its better in the long as the vehicle is nicer for one…. but mainly the vehicle its self is build and set up to handle the extra power… Suspenion / steering etc….
what the point having a 350Kw car if the car cant handle it properly????
and a 1989 (stock) ford will not beat a Aurion… why… its called age… the engine would have lost some of its power/Torque over time…. and its called techonolgy…. as the 2007 XR6 has 190Kw when the 1997 i think GT had 180Kw….and the techonolgy will so help get the power/Torque to the ground better and quicker
Cars just dont get slower…. you idoit….
even Proforamce Fords mag stated after they finished doing up a Xr6 turbo…. its would of been better to start with a FPV as they built to handle the extra power….
so if you really want to do it properly start with a FPV….
again… you didnt answer my other question… what do you drive/own… and how old are you???
dude the stock BA or BF or BFII XT are 1630kg … the Fairmont/Fairmont Ghia are 1785kg … you are a liar.
dude … if you divide the power by the mass you get the ammount of WATTS per KG.
Formula one car makes 0.746watts per 1kg … while the Ford Falcon BA for example 182/1630kg with a full fuel tank.
makes 0.110 watts … thats not even 1/3 of a horse power per 1kg
but what you dont know dude and what you have no idea about is that
there is MORE torque.
you dont get it …
a car that makes 200kW@6200rpm
336Nm@4500rpm
will never beat a car that makes
182kW@5250rpm
380Nm@3250rpm
or the BF/BFII with 190kW@5250rpm
383Nm@2500rpm
dude … i am claming down , you cant see my face or hear my voice in fact i dont give a screw.
i am being impartial here dude.
if the stock 200kW Aurion was better than Ford i propably wouldnt even comment here
you can not compete agains the rearhweel drive car.
i told you before , the Ford Falcon 4Litre engines have always been de-tuned.
always.
just because Aurion makes 13Hp more … that gets lost trough its complex and poor transmission.
there is so much latency between the engine that makes power at high reves than the engine that makes power at low reves.
you probably dont know that the Camry 200kW makes just 260Nm at 1500rpm and not even 50kW of power.
the power/torque curve are pathetic on a 3.5Litre Aurion/Camry crap.
you dont get it.
on the traffic lights any Falcon EAII to BFII will kill it …
and then you are gona tell me your crap oh yea but its got 10kW more
where are those kW?
its like when you drag a stock XT BA Barra220 agains the GT Boss290 …
and they ask them selves how come the Barra220 is beating me by 2 car lenghts of the mark???
its because Barra220 has more power and torque than Bossw260 and 290 way till 150km/h ….
afterwards the Boss260/290 slowly overtake the car but it takes time … so therefore shut up.
In more specicif case here …
the Falcon will alwyas be quicker and more altert , more responive than Aurion no matter what.
it has more balls down below + in the high range.
you can not compare the rise burner against the big six.
at the end of the day its a 4LITRE engine vs a 3.5Litre engine
even the Honda with 217kW V8 can not compete agains local 4Litre Taxi EF/EL Falcons
they simply smoke it.
i’ve seen a 2004 BA on GAS 156kW smoke a 225kW GENIII SS … so what???
dude wake up!
;)
10kW is jack crap!
10kW
ahahahaha 10/0.746 … no way thats just 13.4Hp … lost and disappeared away in to its front wheel drive system.
there is so much energy lost in the front wheel drive driven cars.
you can not compete against the different class.
its shame that you’re all so low … and narrow minded to think that when you pull a heavy object is better than to push.
by all laws of motion , when you push you yield more.
and your point is power to weight ratio , i mean thats just pathetic.
if the BA XT was 2000kg and 182kW or 190kW … then i would shut up and say nothing.
idiot!
;) and the only reason why the EL GLi is quicker than stock BA/BF XT is because its a very similar car … its ligher , but REAR WHEEL DRIVE , similar torque delivery … therefore
the EL is always gone ba by 1 car ahead of XT BA or BF …
even an old AUI is ahead of BA by 1 car lenght or half a car lenght …
you just dont get it … man go do your research
the other day i was selling the G220 2004 model…
its a heavy car close to 1900kg … and there was some dude in his crappy little 1999 V6 Camry … he was smoked before he even tried to smoke me.
;) …..
dude wake up!
speaking of the 350kW BA “supercharged”
it handles well … they handle like Mereces Benz …. its all another marketing propaganda to ruin Fords reputation.
Out of 20 cars tested in Sahara and Australian desert .. the only car that passed the full test was the Inline 4litre and the 3V Barra220 … others failed including the Holdens Aloytec and GEN4 6Litre which didnt like the hot weather.
i told you before … the BA/BF stock are more than enough to handle that ammount of power/torque.
the cars have been factory de-tuned as i told you …
some idiots out there for example would never believe me that the stock OHC engines from EB to AUIII actually make 210-220kW…..
but infact their ARCHITECTURE is at 220kW … fine tuned to 145 , 148 and 157 kW…
and then we have the XR6 versions which are nothing but a marketing lie … same engine different ECU firmware … seriously.
man …
350kW is nothing when tuned well … for smooth power delivery accross each and every power/torque point on the RPM vs TIME graph = POWER vs Time , Torque vs Time graph.
the best car you can ever own is the Stock 4litre supercharged.
350kW/680Nm.
And speaking of the 6.2Litre LS2 , its tempting … its sweet and its nice.
But still its a pushrod technology its really old and lacks vibe of the new era
they go for the displacement , Ford is still at 5.4Litres thats 800cc less than Chev V8 …
but it has DOHC , Cams , its more advanced and at the end of the day it makes more and its got the better sound.
by the way the 97 GT EL DID NOT HAVE 180kW
it had 200kW@4700rpm , 420Nm at 3700rpm …
it was also de-tuned from 240kW/500Nm
i suggest to you to check your facts before you make any comments on the car speficications … E series FALCON is in my small finger i know all about it.
it has nothing to do with Technology “really”
its just the way the manufacturers are slowly increasing the power and torque so it attracts more customers so that the market place doesnt die.
i got the car wieght from both wheels and motor mags….. god its fun to stir u up…lol
i am guess you are thinking i am toyota fan aren’t ya???
so why do they come back with basically the same 0-100km then Champ??? what do u race to 60 and stop or something…as the aurion is catching ya???
dude … you have to learn one thing in life and that is when a new product comes out every company pays money to promote their cars.
the facts are facts and lies and other peoples opinions are their problem
you need to realise and acknowledge one fact that fact is that for example a stock BA/BF can reach 100km/h in just a 1st gear.
but its more effecient to shift at 4500rpm in to 2nd to gain more responce where the torque is BEST to get to 100km/h
from what i know is that
a stock XT is quicker than XR6 and Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia or Fairlane…
because its lighter … but the 0-100km/h times are similar
the XT 4Litre is not more than 1/16th of a second quicker than the heavier Fairmont Ghia 4Litre.
the stock BA 4 speed does 6.8 to 7 seconds flat 0-100km/h
i have driven about 20-30 different BA Falcons , but most were the same , just different colours.
I drove the very 1st one , Mk II , BF with 4 speed and with 6 speed ZF
and they all act very very similar.
some cars that had over 150000ks were a little slower … some havent had their oil changed….
some were newer … and they seemed to be more responsive….
but at the end of the day the STOCK BA/BF XT 4Litre does no more than 7 seconds 0-100km/h
and down hil at the slight hill they do 4 seconds 0-100km/h LMAO LMAO!!!!
now … lets be real.
the stock XT is quicker than that Manual version , of either 5 or 6 speed manual.
its all got to do with persons ability to shit gears and engade the clutch
so there is some latency which can work out to 1 second from 1st to say 3rd gear.
so the Auto is a better solution.
i have drived the 200kW or “204kW” camry as they claim …
and i wasnt surprised … it drove like an old VL Commodore but was much quieter and smoother.
thats all.
it did just under 9 seconds under a full throttle foot to fhe floor reving its ass out 1st , 2nd … full on … to reach 100km/h.
its much slower than Falcon ….
Falcon BA/BF are just more responsive , quicker , more alert … fresher … they have the FORCE / TORQUE under their belt…
they just feel more alive than Aurion/Camry … this is the pure fact.
Aurion 200kW/336Nm can not outrun or overtake or beat the stock 4Litre 182kW/190kW 380/383Nm Falcon 3984cc DOHC VCT DVCT engines.
i got the car weight from the USER MANUAL book from BA and other specs you can also get on the Encyclopedia online.
dude … i dont care seriously.
its the freedom of speech , we live in 2008 , as long as you dont touch , threaten or hurt … and as long as you dont mean it say what ever you want
peace!
it just wotn happen.
Ive briefly looked over the recent posts… mate are alittle slow? Apart from power figures which you’ve repeated a gazzillion times you have provided no facts. The Aurion is faster then a Falcon, this is a fact, in fact a recent Drive test which used various measurements had it at 6.9seconds to 100 compared to Falcon at 7.4seconds. Lol and I just read your claimin its just under 9 seconds, mate a 15 year old manual V6 Camry does the 100 in 8seconds…GET REAL… you obviously havent driven the Aurion. But you say your impartial, I dont think even the most loyal Ford supporters who frequent this place would agree with you on that one! Hell Chopster can see your clueless and somehow cant get your head around the fact that the Aurion has less weight which means it doesnt need the same amount of torque as the Falcon to be on par… so the extra power with a FWD set up(more power to wheels due to efficiency) means faster acceleration!! Simple as that. You also go on about this reliability thing, with the Taxi example, you are aware Taxis kms aernt the worst? Most wear occurs on start up, your private car with predominantly short distances over 200,000kms has alot harder life then a Taxi which drives the same distances with long trips with the engine running. While your Falcon taxi gets 500,000kms many Camrys have gotten that far in private use! These are just examples, trying to claim the Falcon is more reliably then a Toyota is just ridiculous, you go to any other country in the world and youd be laughed off… Toyota have an intenrationally reputation of reliabilty.
P.S Can you create a more coherent post instead of spaces everywhere and repeating of this rpm and power rubbish. Also, provide some evidence for once, I provided a link (once moderation passes you will see), I doubt you will find any evidence suggesting and Aurion does the 100 in 9 seconds FFS!!!!
Its all a marketing lie and a load of crap , the more you pay them the more good crap they say about some car.
Do you think that the average person out there or a grandpa would ever read about other attributes?
you dont get it dude you are quite slow ;)
you see dude…. they have never mentioned the torque of Aurion and at what HIGH RPM its produced….
such attributed dont matter?? yea ahahah sure they dont
when you learn the meaning of TORQUE vs POWER vs RPM … then talk to me.
The Falcon blows and plays with the 200kW AURION … it simply plays with it like cat with the mouse.
PT you are a person whos dying from complexity issues, you like to target others when you’re in danger and you like to argue because you are weak and slow ;) narrow minded and character lacking.
The fact is …. Torque is what moves you , the power is just the ability of something to get from point A to point B as fast as it can in a given ammount of time.
Ford Falcon BA/BFs are faster than Aurion 200kW.
The 6 speed automatic 336Nm 200kW Aurion does just under 9 seconds under a full throttle or in some cases just over 9 seconds.
Its front wheel drive , its quite heavy for a front wheel driven type of a vehicle and it just doesnt feel quick and its not quick.
Once you learn your physics and study some Kinematics then come and talk to me.
The Falcon has the torqe advantate , and if we are talking about the 4 speed AUTO BA , even better , it has less gears to go trough , they are tall and wide , helped out by torque.
The Ba from 2002 to 2005 4 speed 4Litre simply eats the Aurion alive.
And the BF / BFII 6 speed ZFespecially , because the BF is 1/8th of a second faster than BA 4 speed in a straight line.
The front wheel drive cars are no match for a rearwheel driven cars.
I know that for the fact.
I owned a 3.5Litre magna manual 2002 model , it was 163kW and every single boxy old Falcon would beat me and i could never ever actually overtake them or pass them.
Stop being abusive you little person;) show your face and your character in a more positive way.
Ford all the way!
Paul says………
“Toyota have an internationally reputation of reliability.”
Yeah….thats depleting……..oh and I spell checked you sentence for you too
and what does the automatic 15 year old camry do 0-100 , say 11 seconds??? yea …
i tried it on a few of them … even the crappy 3Litre 5 speed does 9 seconds when reved really hard , no matter how perfectly you get the reving and shif patern you wont make it quicker and beat the 9s 0-100.
dude wake up.
i have driven three Aurions , and i have driven one TRD.
i dont like them
by the way , the front wheel drive system on all such cars of such nature is always sensitive … when cornering under throttle , they dont put 100% on the wheels … they lose anywhere between 30-50% of power…
once the wheels are straightened then you get 100%
front wheel drive cars will always have understeer and oversteer problems.
they are not as effecient as rear-wheel driven DRIVESHAFTED cars.
you can say what ever you want.
those numbers are just there to win the sales , its all a lie , manipulative propaganda.
stop reading magazines , they are well paid in order to promote new crap.
i dont approve it!
its all a fake.
and for these spaces i make here , thats because of characterless low lives like you who never read what i write so i can make you throw your eye at my blog comments..
because what i am saying is the fact;)
how about an old S Pack EAII Falcon with only 339Nm of torque and 139kW??? ahahaah 5 speed manual???
it eats the Aurion and TRD Arurururorororroro AHAHAAHAH
;)
and if you try to give them a roll start … the Ford would simply disappear in the Horizon !!!
Ford all the way;)
i am a happy owner of a BFII Fairmont Ghia seduce Red 5.4Litre 3V 6 speed made in 2006;) the best car ever;)
Might I add some more…
You provide some calcs about displacement, mate here is an example of what you tried:
TRD : 241/3.5 = 59kw per L
Falcon : 190/4 = 48kw per L
XR8 : 260/5.4 = 48kw per L
So yes your calcs are highly accurate that a Falcon is superior to a TRD. You have to face the facts, yes the Falcon has an alrite engine… but it does not match the Aurion for power, SIMPLE AS THAT. The Orion will be interesting, expecting more power, but what about fuel efficiency! And as I already alluded to in your engine ‘war’ a direct injection variant of the Aurions engine gets 230kw and 400Nm (yes 400Nm down low)… no dodgy ecu running rich… no dodgy bacyard job exhaust system… and all that power and torque RELIABLY delivered. Also to finish as I already said with your torque crap, the Falcon has 50Nm more which isnt that much when you consider its essentially 150kg heavier (drive with a packed car of people, you feel the weight…150kg is alot)… the Aurion is lighter, gets more power to wheels AND unlike your little ‘oh 330Nm at 4500RPM actually gets 90% down at 2000RPM (in Falcon defence same story, 100% is at 4500RPM but your to stupid to look beyond and realise heaps is down low… in fact the TRD you also make reference to gets the Aurions peak torque at like 2000RPM!!!)
ahahahaah try this dude 400Nm from TRD / 3.5L = 114Nm per litre
try XR6 Turbo BFII 480/4 = 120Nm dude!!! wake up!!! + its made at just under 2000rpm , like 1900rpm well in to 4500rpm dude!!!!!
dude but it wont get that peak torque at 2000rpm dude , its like 85% of the peak torque of 4500rpm
still the Ford has much more torque.
and again i will repeat myself you rise burner that every I6 engine is de-tuned!
i am not talking about ammount of kW per Litre.
its obvious you idiot the TRD is supercharged you idiot.
Try to work out the XR6T BFII , but again thats underpowered its 245kW on 4Litre
but take a look at the torque idiot.
The torque is derrived from Power.
therefore dude …. the Falcon is always gona be a more aletrt and more waken up type of an engine than TRD and stock Aurion.
You dont understand.
stock 4Litre makes 360Nm at just 1500rpm dude!!!!!!
idiot wake up!!!
you ignorant little boy;)
where is your attitude? dude! wake up!
there is no way that the TRD will ever make close to 300Nm at 1500rpm
dude!! Fords engine has more torque accross the whole reve range than TRD dude!!!
wake up
its 230kW “factory stock” de-tuned to 182kW/190kW dude!
its 450Nm NON SUPERCHARGED just N/A de-tuned to 380/383
AND WHY ARE THEY DE-TUNED?
because of reliability … it increased the engine life even more
+ to make the room for other models which are also de-tuned.
ALL I HEAR FROM YOU IS POWER
idiot!
THE FALCON IS STRONGER
IT HAS THE TORQUE…. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF DUDE!
TRY GO AGAINS THE XRT6 … then we’ll see the torque!!
dude!! dude idiot wake up!!!
DUDE TORQUE IS WHAT DRIVES YOU
AURION 200KW IS 1 TO 1.5 FULL SECONDS SLOWER THAN ANY 4LITRE FALCON AND UP TO 3 SECONDS SLOWER THAN XR6T
Dude you are also CRAZY yes you PC idiot.
the stock XR8 5.4Litre is Naturally aspirated and it makes 465Nm at just 1500rpm
and 480Nm at 2000rpm dude!!! wake up! …. its torque curve is very sweet and almost flat … till it hits 4250rpm … and then at even 6250rpm it has over 420Nm
dude!!!!
wake up!!!
how much power does the TRD Aurion make at 1500 and 2000rpm??
45kW? 75kW?
ahaha Falcon makes 73kW at just 1500rpm dude!!!! and 150kW at just 2000rpm dude! … at 2500rpm it makes over 200kW dude!!!! wake up dude!!!!
hello dude!!!!;)
what are you on about!!
the stock Barra220 3V and Boss260 way to 302 Cobra make from 411Nm to 420Nm at just 1000rpm …
try putting an TRD engine agains the stock 4Litre on idle.
let the clutch go and the 4Litre will overpower the 3.5Litre TRD and shut it down.
ahahaa
and what are you trying to say idiot! kW per Litre
i just exmpalied that before in a similar contecst!
damn dude!
and again
its front wheel drive.
you just havent got enough arguments go go agains me dude!
the fact is the fact and i will repeat myself a million times
a freaking AUII beats TRD Aurion ahahahahaaha
i have to agree with the BFII i think that he knows his stuff, Falcon wins!
I AGREE TOO WITH THE MR BFII or is he a she? ANYWAY WE ALL AGREE WITH THE MR BFII!
Ha ha … i knew it! …. i am a winner Ford Falcon BA 4.0Litre Barra182 and Barra190 are trully the best SIX cylinder powered cars on earth.
Best family cars , very comfortable , economical , responsive, sweet to drive , reliable, good quality , cheap to run , and are Australian designed,created,engineered!
Ford all the way , thank you Brendan, FPV … thanks people!
Ford rules!
i just heard that it might also be 285kw & 550nm for a stock orion series 1 2008-2009 XR8 falcon, the 6litre dohc will come out in early 2010 might last till 2012 will make 410kw non supercharged as far as torque goes i have not heard anything about the torque figures
the jaguar 5litre is reserved for late 2012 towards 2015 will make close to 400kw
BFII Wins hands down, Ford has won more awards and gained more respect than just about any car on earth, more sales mean nothing compared to enjoyment of driving or heritage Ford has accumulated since Henry invented the car…
doesnt the TRD do 6.1 to 100km/h… the same as a XR8????
i like this BFII… he is the Toyota Paul of the ford group…. you say a couple of things an he writes a book…. so funny and easy to fire up…lol!!!
just letting ya all know i am not a Toyotafan .. i am a ford fan…. i like to stir people up….its funny…lol
the whole major problem is that this great engine dies in 2010….. then Ford will be using a V6 as well.
i would always my self go the XR models over the XT or base model as the interior is just so plain in the base models…. and i find myself the XR6 handles better when giving it some….
but saying this i will be upgrading to a FPV very soon from my XR6… when someone will insure me at a half decent price…. been a 20yr old male trying insure BF Typhoon is pretty fun…. so i have to stick with My XR for a little longer :(
yes the I6 is a good engine but the best in the world… i love my ford and the I6 but i like to be realistic too… for example I6 if BMW what are they, a 3litre in line 6 that puts out 225Kw?? something like that any way…. to be too honest i dont know much about the E series falcons… so i cant argue with ya on that one…. me more in to the V8 side of things big power and Torque…. but also a fan of the Typhoon…. only turbo i like….
BFII you just need to know that there is better engines out there in the big bad world….
me if could the engine i wanted… me i would have one super snake engine please…. all 522Kw S/C 5.4litre V8…
Lol sounds like you guys have escaped from the local mental assylum, if being incoherent results in a good argument… then he wins hands down. Lets have a short summary of some highlights of the arguments:
* An Aurion does 100 in 9 seconds (News to every review which has it at is slowest 7.4seconds… at its fastest, 6.9seconds)
* A EA Falcon beats an Aurion to 100 (This is quite funny)
* A 165kw Commodore can beat a 240kw TRD Aurion (75kw means nothing… cos it aint torque… forgetting a V8 weighs a good 200kg+ heavier then a 6)
* Weight doesnt effect acceleration (Obviously dont have any friends so wouldnt know what its like to drive a full car of people)
* Torque has nothing to do with pulling power (Same as above)
* The inline 6 is the 2nd best engine in the world (despite never being considered in Wards engine of the year awards…. the Aurions direct injection variant was in the top 10 in 2007)
* Falcon has the most reliable engine in the world (go ask someone in another country what a Falcon is and they wouldnt know… ask what a Camry is, they will know what brand and chances are they will know them for their reliabilty… forgetting the recent survey which showed 55% of Falcons need to return to dealership within 5 months after sale, predominantly for engine problems)
*Mentions a Falcon has 6Nm per L more torque (Ummm thats not a good thing, thats PER LITRE… thats not much more torque, especially when you consider the WEIGHT difference.
*Compares a V8s torque to a TRD (Well of course a V8 will have more torque… but again we neglect the big picture, 200kg+ more weight that needs to be pulled!)
* Most recent an AU beats a TRD (Au had what 150 or 160kw?… nuff said)
Chopsta DONT compare me to BF…. this guy is a complete nutt, he hasnt provided anything coherent yet. I provide support for my opinions, he has just been talking fluff… pulling figures like the Aurions 100 in 9 seconds our of his ar*e.
TP , you dont know what you are talking about man.
chill out!
Just read what Chopsta said.
But i also have to agree with BFII.
The 3Litre BMW yes it does make 225kW but at 7000rpm, so it needs to work more + its a smaller engine, so its strained and forced.
While the 4L Falcon is literally sleeping doing no work at all and yet still blowing the Aurion for torque and power.
cya
Again TP dude , the AU had 157kW as BFII told ya before , check your facts before comming here.
And he was right , the 4Litre OHC makes over 200kW thats NATURALLY. as he said.
and what he says its a fact.
Just to add more to this.If the BMW is only 3Litre thats 500cc per cylinder , and if it makes 225kW , thats at 7000-7500rpm, which is too high, it needs to be reved hard.
while the BA or BF make it at 5000rpm not much less power, yet as BFII said , they make 220-230kW at 5500rpm and 450Nm which is the fact.
But they are restricted by the factory.
I know that my wives VT Ecotec beats a 200kW Aurion and its only 147kW when using premium and when runnin it on regular its only 130kW like the previous VR.
TP the BFII guy is winning , he has more proof than you do, you cant measure a frontwheel drive car with a rearwheel drive car.
It will always win no matter what.
I think you’re a complete retard TP, you’re a complete clown, crazy and you need a psychological treatment. Go educate yourself before speaking up here.
good riddance
And the fact is the typical grandpa style white Aurion V6 with plastic wheel covers does just over 9s 0-100km/h.
and the TRD does just over 7 seconds. O.5 seconds slower than stock XT naturally aspirated 4.0Litre DOHC Ford Falcon Inline Six engine.
adios amigos
And one more you stupid TP idiot.
clown boo at you…
if you occupy the Aurion with 5 fully grown people add a trailer to it, everything in that little car will go slow. Just like in Suzuki Vitaras 2.0 and 2.7Litre V6s.
Put 5 fully grown people in a falcon , a full boot of baggage and a trailer , the Falcon will beat all and ever single production six in Australia.
You can not match the torque of the Aussie 4Litre.
At the end of the day Ford has patented drive by wire technology in late 2001 and 1stly applied in BA Falcon.
Get your facts straight , i’ve smoked a few Aurions in my old 3 speed automatic VL Turbo which also has a defective turbocharger.
TP = toilet paper … idiot!
previously by GREG
“BFII Wins hands down, Ford has won more awards and gained more respect than just about any car on earth, more sales mean nothing compared to enjoyment of driving or heritage Ford has accumulated since Henry invented the car…”
I agree with you man! Henry Ford rocks, over 80% of worlds cars were Ford before 1960.
its amazing that just ONE single brand dominated more than 3/4 of the world in CARS!
by the way all of you who think you’re holden or other brand supporers can simply shut up and accept the fact that we were all FORD people at 1st.
MAN I LOVE THESE BLOGS.
Yes the 302kW on the GT Cobra is achieved on regular 91 octane fuel. Run it on 98 premium and you get close to 320kW regardless of tuning and engine management/ ignition timing.
while the GTS has 307kW on 98 octanes , and if you use 91 by an accident , it will only make 280kWish and not 307kW
torque suffers too from 550Nm to 500Nm … massive 50Nm drop.
wa hahahahaahahaha i am so happy Holden is losing , but at least beating the Toyota.
RIP Toyota Coroalla/Celica still my favorite cars “seriously” including the Hybrid Prius.
stupid idiot … ahaha more kW per litre.
thats good … shows how a smaller engine can be more effecient than a bigger one. But at one price and thats at high RPM … and nothing at low.
but by all laws of engineering it wont last as a lazy big engine.
if Ford wanted they could have made the 4litre to make 80KW per cylinder thats 480kW easy and they could have tuned it to reve higher …….. say 480kW@7000rpm/760Nm@5000rpm
i see you fags are arguing way too much over something that has nothing to do with life
in october 2007 i went to calder park and i’ve beaten a aurion zr6 model in my old vl 122kw v8
i did 16.0s 0-400m and he did 16.9s 0-400m , 2nd time he tried against the basic stock eb xr8 falcon 1993 v8 and the eb did 15.7s vs his 2nd run of 17.2s.
the third run he had against the 1997 el xr6 auto stock, el did 15.5 seconds vs his 3rd time of 16.8s
aurion has lost it every and each time. where did its claimed useless 200kw go to
the 4th run he had was against the vx ss , the vx ss did 14.9s vs his worst time ever of 17.5s
people lets face the reality its a wrong car for wrong application as mr BFII said its a frontwheel drive its useless
lmao at you PT you are a complete loser, go seek some medical help!
I AGREE WITH MR JOE,STEVE,BFII,JASON.C,BRENDAN AND OTHER FORD PEOPLE OUT THERE!
FALCON IS A QUICKER CAR AS MR BFII SAID “ITS MORE ALETRT AND MORE RESPONSIVE DUE TO ITS INLINE SIX NATURE AND LOADS OF TORQUE DELIVERED AT ANYTIME”
HANDS UP FOR A 4LITRE FALCON!
All I am hearing is ‘it will beat Aurion… Ive beat Aurion… seen Aurion beaten’. YOU PEOPLE ARE TALKING OUT OF YOUR AR*SES.
You say the Aurion does the 100 in 9 seconds… anyone with half a brain knows this is a complete lie
You say a 20 year old Commodore with 150kw can beat a 200kw Aurion… anyone with half a brain knows this is a lie
And from the recent spate of posts its suggested a packed Aurion wouldnt be able to hand a load of people compared to a Falcon… another lie because a Drive test (go google it, sv6 v xr6 v zr6) fully packed and with a full tank of fuel did the 100 in the same time as the Falcon!!!
Complete and utter lies. I wouldnt continue this thing but I cringe at the thought that some people might actually come here and take whats being said as facts… Aurion in 9 seconds ffs, no credibility exists, so I find it hard to believe these little race stories where a 120kw car granted with torque… but with 1800kg of weight… smashes an Aurion which is newer (no lost power), 80kw more and enough torque for its weight.
Might I add I got a laugh from someone who said the Falcon has the best engine in the world… how old are you guys? 10? 12? The Aurion as Ive said is closer to a decent engine, with its direct injection variant… with many components in common… being in the top 10 of wards engine of the year awards 2007!! Not only for the power it makes… a lawnmower can get power… but blending that with efficiency, a whole new kettle of fish the locals cant master! Aurion… 200kw… 330Nm… at 9.9L per 100km, nearly in 4cylinder territory! I dont believe any Falcon engine has ever made it in wards engine of the year awards…. doubt they are even considered or known for that matter!
The reason why the Falcon engine is never in the ward’s is because it’s not used around the world. As you said TP, “doubt they are even considered or known for that matter!” But if the design was shared or exported around the world, maybe it would be in the ward’s awards.
Pising myself laughing here at these “I think I know the answer to the new”2008 orion. Wait till the car comes out and then do all the talkin. Even then some of you all wont know shit about the new car.
TP,
dont forget 10.2L100k from the falcon is right on the aurions doorstep.
thats 2.55L per L of displacement from the falcon, and
thats 2.83L per L of displacement from the aurion
so its not correct to say the locals cant get economy
ford have an even larger car than the aurion with fuel consumption “in 4 cyl territory”
PT i am sick of you.
Why do you think the 4litre engine is not out there?
well why should it be around the world?
and why should it be even used in american Ford Crown Victoria.
yes the 4Litre Inline six is superior to a typical 3V 4.6Litre found in Crown Victoria
but if they were installing the Falcon engine in Crown Victoria in USA
then their economy would suffer and their factories could close and people could lose their jobs.
and making the inline Six in USA would take months to assemble and train people and program machines + test engines and possibly do more work to calibrate them 100% with the guise and chasis of Crown Victoria which somewhat is very similar to the EF/EL chasis “volume wise”
At the end of the day if we had our 4litre de-tuned and polished “which is allready done anyways”
in this case if it was only de-tuned to its full mechanical power of 230KW and 450Nm , then it would obviously beat the engine from TVR and BMW and Mercedes Benz.
By the way we are talking 4Litres here , long stroke , specifically grown and arthitecturally grown for TORQUE.
according to some peoples estimates it makes 230kW@5500rpm and 450Nm @4000rpm
but is fine tuned , muted , limited and polished , shined up to make only 182-190kW and just 380-383Nm.
and the new Orion will be 200kW if not even more than 200kW
further enabling the engine reserve.
At the end of the day we are talking a naturally aspirated SIX that actually makes 450Nm , but as i said its de-tuned to make the way for other models… and for the GEARBOX reliability to decrease wear and tear and cut the costs.
if you think that the XR6 Turbo BA makes only 450Nm and 240Kw … those cars when full IN NATURAL mode make over 300kW and over 600Nm.
but as i said its all marketing and “slow” incremental increasing in power to make new way for new models and new profit.
at the end of the day i have the real proof.
get a stock XT , give it a powerchip gold and if will make 206kW and 410Nm with out any mechanical or exhaust or air intake mods.
this is my proof that this engine is a torque maker!
at the end of the day the stock “now considered OLD” BA 182kW beats the camry and aurion and worst of all it beats the TRD version too.
and the BA190 makes it even better with a little more torque down below , different yet very similar tuneup and 8kW or 11Hp more.
PT , go away , we dont want to listen to your propaganda.
the car that makes 330Nm at very high 4700rpm and just 200kW at 6200rpm will never be able to arm wrestle with a car that makes 383Nm at 2500rpm and yet has 375Nm at 5000rpm “the flat and perfect torque curve” as the 4Litre motor.
you will never be able to fully acknowledge the INLINE SIX technology
oh i cant wait for the 300kW/575Nm Typhoon F6 , allready saving for deposit!!! will trade my BFII Fairmont Ghia V8 for it! cant wait!
:)ahaha and i am 36 years of age…. making a goose out of this dude called TP;)
dude i am a God for you;)
YO THERE, I AM FEELIN SORRY FOR THE TP GUY
LOOKS LIKE WE’RE BEATING HIM FOR FACTS
THE AURION IS A SMALL FLY PUMPED UP AND POLISHED TO BE SOMETHING IT WILL NEVER BE AND THATS TO BE A BIG CAR
AND A FALCON IS A BIG BEAR STRONG AND POWERFUL , YET TRAINED TO BE GENTLE AND SWEET, BUT WHEN MADE ANGRY THAT GENTLE BEAR CAN BECOME A BIG MONSTER YET VERY EFFECIENT ON FUEL BECAUSE THE STRONGER THE MONSTER THE LESS WORK IT NEEDS TO DO THEREFORE THE LESS HE NEEDS TO EAT IN THIS CASE USE LESS FUEL
SO DONT STIR THE BIG MONSTER SIX , HES A GENTLE BEAR, BECAUSE A BEAR CAN KILL A FLY WITH A SMALL FART HE’D MAKE DURING HIS NIGHT OUT CRUISING DOWNTOWN.
Joe
Here is the proof. What they meant by “IN STANDARD” form is STOCK factory specification of 190/383 “de-tuned”.
“Your Ford Falcon BF 4.0 ecu is difficult to modify and specialist equipment is required, this means that the upgrade can only be performed if the vehicle is taken to our office in Melbourne.
In standard form, the Falcon BF 4.0 produces 190 kW and 383 Nm.
Powerchip has a range of chips to suit your car, which can increase it’s power to between 199 kW and 203 kW, and it’s torque to between 398 Nm and 405 Nm.
The price of the Powerchip is AUD $490.00.”
and we are talking here a stock 4LITRE NATURALLY ASPIRATED ENGINE that makes 405Nm thats 5Nm more than a supercharged AURION.
but…
i have to be very honest , AURION TRD is de-tuned too … from perhaps more than 400Nm … yet again , i am saying that a stock BA/BF make this with no supercharging.
Just give your BA/BF a sweet CAPA VORTECH supercharger $5000
and you’ll get 305kW NON-INTERCOOLED or 350kW Intercooled…… easy … and close to 700Nm or more.
with no engine internals touched or moded.
Give it a LIVEWIRE flash tuner … and it’ll make things even more interesting;)
hello
wow i am blown away with all these comments cant keep up with it all
i personally own a 2003 BA Fairmont mercury silver, its a barra220 4 speed auto and so far there was no car on the road in the past 5 years that has ever beaten me apart from the typhoon F6 but seriously not by much at all , not even 25m-30m
currently i am working on the engine mods, air intake, 4 in to one extractors , ecu , i am expecting 250rwkw vs 170rwkw standard.
Frank
BF11,
the other reason the I6 is heavily resteicted is so it doesnt embarras their V8 range.
especially so with the XR6T it is common knowledge they restricted that so it didnt blow away even their own V8 boss motor (even though it still does)
many performance shops specialise in Ba and up falcon motors with success because it is so damn easy to get more power out of them. and the best bit is you dont have to cut off that arm and leg to fund the upgrade
BF11,
the other reason the I6 is heavily resteicted is so it doesnt embaress their V8 range.
especially so with the XR6T it is common knowledge they restricted that so it didnt blow away even their own V8 boss motor (even though it still does)
many performance shops specialise in Ba and up falcon motors with success because it is so damn easy to get more power out of them. and the best bit is you dont have to cut off that arm and leg to fund the upgrade
I know a lot about the new ORION , i just wont say much , its my principle. Though i only know about the stock base model.
I cant wait till it comes out!
Tp is Toyota Paul mr toyota fan or maybe you are a new guy any way the Aurion looks good but is too slow and keep dreaming you would beat a Falcon the Ford Falcon X6 Turbo would beat your TDR Aurion 3500 S, 3500 SL and Sportivo ZR6.
One more thing the Ford Falcon X6 TURBO is a MK II is not new while your Aurion come out last year I think but who cares when is just a Camry super charged crap.
that TP dudes probally doesnt want to talk no more , he thinks that we’re all crazy according to his opinion.
we know that a stock Falcon with only 182kW from the factory as a final product can beat the 241kW TRD
and speaking of the XR6 series ONE in late 2002 to late 2004 for the MkII … of course they beat the Aurion.
man of course.
and again……… supercharging is better than turbocharging.
but since the XR6T has a good engine , a turbo is a big PLUS for it … so its even quicker , stronger and faster.
at the end of the day BA XR6T , BA MkII XR6T and BF/BFII 480Nm 245kW version of XR6T ….. are awsome cars.
REAR WHEEL DRIVE VS FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.
in order for a front wheel drive to win it would take more than 200 and 241kW and more than miserable 330Nm and only 400Nm ……..
Ford wins!
ps: as i said an old VN Commodore with a stock 5Litre V8 165kW/385Nm beats a 241kW/400Nm TRD , i’ve seen in on Calder park
15.8s vs 16.6 seconds. And this is not a joke i am dead serious! Followed by the stock EB XR6 15.3s vs 16.5s.
Followed by the stock ex TAXI EL 96 , 15.8s vs 16.7s.
get real people!!!
get real!
You seen the front cover of the Wheels……New Orion XR8
I’ve started a post on the Forum if you want a look!
Is The feb 2008 issue already out? :D
Yep…………Wheels on the 290kw XR8 look unreal!
5-Speed auto sounds good but the picture isn’t much different to what we know already.
will the new Orion get a good impartial hearing from the magazines though? or will it be the normal holden bias, lets bash the new ford story again??
Sad to say this, but likely to happen. Wheels and all the media menton: “big six”, “high fuel prices”, “commodore way ahead in sales” & “Jobs sacked” – All bad debates = people staying away from Ford if they shopping for a new car.
Hope i’m proven wrong in the near future.
The Falcon 4Litre is a more responsive engine therefore it needs less fuel to produce the desired torque to move the car.
;) the holden has better sales by not much , only because majority of the population is brainwashed in to thinking that its an Aussie car , in fact not.
Falcon is;)
Well they have said they will give it equal amount of coverage as the VE got Cobra045………lets see if its positive!
OZ.
you are proven wrong.
how can you compare a say VZ Commodore V6 with a Falcon.
they are two different worlds.
A commodore with an inferior torqueless engine that barely makes 280Nm at 1750rpm …
and a Ford BA/BF which makes 360Nm to 370Nm at just 1500rpm
a car which DOES NOT need to much of a throttle tap to move.
there are some things that you dont know OZ.
you can not compare the oil burner vs the effecient TORQUE factory of a 4Litre Falcon.
at the end of the day there are more Falcons than crappadores still runnin in this country.
they are more reliable , longer lasting …
engines last for ever vs any V6 which never make 300000s
i have proven you wrong.
its all CALLED TV propagana and marketing lie.
why arent they flying their HOLDEN BLIMP no more around Essendon?
because they failed , in their lies and crap …
VE VE VE what ever!
the car was initially designed in UK/USA in 2002/2003 … and then marketed as a billion dollar baby
where there is no such thing in the 1st place.
just a lie.
and i dont support their evolution theory either.
how can you expect an old ute to become a new one? with out doing any work on it and re-creating it building it from scratch
i mean thats a load of crap … eg: locking up a car in a garage , opening it up after 50 years and expecting it to EVLOVE by itself in to a new model.
is just not logical.
load of crap.
the stock SV6 VE Commodore is beaten in every way by a stock old warn out EAII Falcon.
and when it comes to better E series Falcons AUs and BAs … they eat them crappadores.
For economy , comfort , torque , acceleration , towing , quality , reliability , long life etc etc.
dont you get it dude?
Ford Falcon is always gona be a better car
and ps: the new Orion GT some say 290kW/530Nm … but its not the same engine as from BA/BF GT …
so you can expect the BA GT 290kW to beat the Orion XR8 290kW due to the differences in crank/con rods , piston rings and pistons…heads and intake mainfold.
because the Orion XR8 is just a BOSS260 with new FIRMWARE enabling it to 290kW;)
Thanx BA!
I just heard the new I6 4Litre ORION will have a base line 205kW and 395Nm engine.
thats what i call a STRONG CAR!
The VE launch was covered live on MSN, so the same with Orion?
….Sure hope so ;)
Thanks again BA, I was knew I’d get proven wrong, BUT NOT SO SOON!
BA.. not sure if your assumption on the new Orion GT. Gor a start it is going to have more kW than the current BF engine (302kW) and also slightly more torque. Discussion at dealers (even though not confirmed yet) is circa 320kW and an increase in torque of between 10 and 20 Nm, depending how these increases effect emmissions. However they have confirmed it will not be a 302, however it will be higher than 302.. How much higher is the question I suppose. Being an owner of a 302kW Boss engine I cant wait to see how the next generation Boss comes out.
The Boss260 engine will be 100% the same as in Orion XR8 but with a different 32bit ECU program. To further more enable its power.
Speaking of the typical BOSS290 , it is actually different to a BOSS302 cobra … different cam profile , and the rest is 100% the same apart from the ECU program.
The Cobra 302 makes 302kW@6500rpm , 540Nm@4500rpm.
But in theory the BOSS290 is stronger in the lower RPM range.
Still it puffs out after about 5700-6000rpm … so the Cobra BOSS302 is an extension to higher performer.
;)
The Boss290 will be used in ORION , it will be the same engine mechanically as the 1st one in 2003 on BA.
it will not be the same engine with the cam profile of a Cobra 302.
It will still be making peak power at 5500rpm and 4500rpm for torque.
so it will look like 320kW@550rpm and 550Nm@4500rpm
and will NOT be the BOSS302 “CAM SHAFT” in it.
its still the good old platform , furthermore tweaked and FREED UP to make more or in otherwords FREED UP to make what its suppose to make;)
while the Cobra 302 CAM “design” will probably be offered in who knows ” a better higher reving model”
but i doubdt it.
All i know is that if we start using the V6 instead of I6 for 2010 , it will disappoint me persoally.
And if we drop the BOSS engine and acquire Jagura “another Ford designed engine”
then i’ll cry too ;) because in all laws of physics , the bigger the cylinders the more power can be achieved;)
Anyways … all this is really a complex issue.
I will not talk about it anymore . I am the BFII guy. Just changed my name to BA because this blog site wouldnt let me post any more comments under “BFII”
cheers.
all the best and ps: the stock Barra220 keeps up with the 307kW HSV and 302kW Cobra … and ps: Barra220 puts the VE SS 270kW in to the shame by keeping up with it.
And ps: Barra220 3v , yes that old 3v Triton “3V head” keeps up with the XR8 Boss260 , sometimes making its owners wonder … shit i just got beaten by the SR Falcon or by G220;)
take care guys.
I suggest you learn some simple physics rules/laws , do your research and think carefully.
;) Ford all the way;) … and ps: Barra220/230 have more power and torque accross all gears whether 4 speed or 6 speed auto up to 150km/h than BOSS260/290/302.
;)
once the Barra puffs out after 150km/h under full acceleration , the Boss260-302 slowly overtake it … but not by much …
you’ll ususally find that old Barra220 in your rear view mirror not to many car lenghts behind you
so today i’ll go for a drive and enjoy the ride in my old 2003 BA SR 5.4Litre SOHC V8 5 speed manual Falcon;)
0-100km/h 6.1 and at times 6.3s , 0-400m 14.3s & 14.1s depending on my shifting “STOCK” 5 speed manual thats for my SR 220kW/472Nm ;)
adios!
thanks for that.. you learn something every day.. I agree with you about the 290 v 302.. My BF GT is a relatively quiet engine and was smooth up through the rev range.. however the 302 is different. it sounds the same up to about 3000rpm.. after that all hell breaks loose and the engine changes tone completely and the power then hits like a turbo.. its bloody great!!
BA, I dissagree with the Boss 320 having only 550nm of torque because that would mean it won’t be faster than the current HSV.
BTW, are they all your E-mail addresses BA? :?: LOL
Oz
my sources have suggested between 10 and 20 more Nm than the 302.. so that puts it in the 550 to 560 range.. I agree would be a little disapointing!!
560nm is more likley to happen, but still comparing it to HSV… :|
you dont get it.
If a car makes 540Nm or 550Nm …
there is no real different between it.
Its all about at WHAT “RPM” the power occurs.
If the HSV GTS makes 550Nm at 4500rpm , and Ford makes 540Nm at 4500rpm.
The Fords BOSS engine architecture which was derrived from American Mustang Cobra SVT 5.4Litre has a better LOW end torque and a good high end torque curve.
so even the stock BA GT with only 290kW and 520Nm is on PAR with 307kW 550Nm HSV
the only real difference and advantage the HSV has is that it has magnetic suspension and a few other new tech features that play no part in straight line acceleration.
I’ve seen 2003 GT Falcons lose by only half a car lenght on the street.
Its all how you drive it , its not about the power and torque
thats in real world.
If the stock BA 182k2 keeps up and plays with 225kW GENIII VX SS Commodore.
then it really has to be up to the driver , yet not really in this case since the 4Litre engine is a lot more alive than GENIII V8 which tends to be slow and quite underpowered and mute for its size.
ANYHOW….
whether 550Nm or 560 , it would really need to be 600+ Nm in order to actually get some extra thump.
Cars that are similar in power say 140kW vs 150kW … with 290Nm vs 300Nm …
its all pretty much same crap.
but if the car has say 147kW 304Nm and another car 157kW and 357Nm … then the 357Nm will beat it for sure.
i used the example VT vs AU , AU being the 157kW/357Nm car.
so even if XR8 gets 550Nm and 290kW it will beat the HSV.
But it will all basically be on paper.
290/520 is plenty anyways.. its how you drive it.
I personally can pretty much eat anyone on the road with just a 2.2Litre Manual Astra in my hands;)
its how you drive it … not really about the power or torque.
I had a G220 2004 model MkII , 4 speed auto , quite heavy 1850kg+ …
and i used to beat and overtake and muck around with 285kW HSV VYII and VZ 297kW cars.
they had no chance to overtake me or “SEEM TO BE STRONG” enough to actually do anything.
so … what you really need is 75%+ more power and 100% more torque to see a major difference.
10kW+ or 10kW – …. means crap.
seriously.
Its all in the torque and also in the fac that unless there is a major power increase eg: Typhoon at 270kW to 330kW … then there is no real difference;)
at the end of the day you will see many people on the road with old EDs beating new ORIONs and New Commodores and crap like that.
its how you drive it …
because a car with say 148kW and 348Nm is more than enough and thats where its basically AT.
so technically … more power , more torque … bla bla bla
we are talking production cars here.
get the real thing out a 750kW Typhoon , 1300Nm … and lets talk real stuff;)
speaking of the XR8 Orion , even if it gets 550Nm or 560Nm and those 290kW
that car will still be beaten by a stock 290kW/520Nm GT BA/BF
why?
as i said before … there is the major engine mechanical difference… even the flywheel is lighter on GT , the pistons etc etc all the mechanicals…
therefore … i wont really bother;)
So you saying that Ford wouldn’t use the same Engine out of the old BA/BF?
Na………It will be the same engine in the XR8 Orion as the previous GT! So think of it this way throw an edit in your XR8 Orion and as you make your torque lower than the current 302 kw slug you will nail me in a Cobra! Trust me!So they make more torque in the current 302 but higher in the torque curve too……I want more torque at lower revs thanks!
What FPV should have done was drop better Rods and Pistons in it and let the sucker rev to 7500…….I mean they just start to get it on and hit the bloody rev limiter! Oh and change the diff gears……..!!!!!
In the Orion XR8, Same engine as previous GT + Extra torque. Maybe 530nm?
…And I mean an Orion XR8 will beat a 290kw GT on a drag strip.
Nope same amount 520……its the same engine !
Oh well, bedda’ be quicker than the old GT!
Hahahahah BA claims a regular Falcon with 190kw can beat a TRD Aurion with 240kw and according to him, the even more important thing, 400Nm of torque!! Mate you are an absolute joke, the Aurion beats the Falcon in acceleration… forget the TRD, thats a whole new kettle of fish. Fair enough the Turbo may be a touch faster, but then again one has a decent features kit (The Falcon have curtain airbags?) while the other is a poor mans performance car.
hahaha…..poor mans performance car……compared to what,
over priced torque steering TRD!
Curtain air bags….well from the way I’ve seen Aurion drivers drive they bloody need them!
well TP do these “extra features” actually work?
i mean it has been proven that esp doesnt work on the hilux and kluger……..
so are you paying 18K extra for a TRD which only gets the little sticker in the corner of the windscreen but not the actual feature?
oh and welcome to the orion postings by the way. good to see you take an interest in ford upcoming beauty.
so whats your thoughts on the upcoming model
oh TP,
is the XR6T really the poor mans performance car or the smart mans performance car?
i mean the smart man doesnt pay 18K more for a performance vehicle that actually has less performance than the cheaper option
hahahahaha……..welcome to the latest AndrewM….hahahaha
Your a crack up!
I know………more like cheap performance for a smart man than a poor performance man car………..
The XR6T is not a poor mans sport’s car just because the TRD had side curtan airbags and it doesn’t….remember what’s coming out this year.
1. XR6T is 4 years old and still faster than the TRD which has just came out.
2. The XR6T is RWD and RWD is what real sports cars are. FWD is not as safe as RWD not to mention torque steer from FWD.
TP you are an idiot.
I told you before .. that you can not compare the front wheel drive car that has just a little more of power to a rear wheel drive car that has a similar power/torque figures.
AT THE END OF THE DAY THE 190KW BF IS STOCK NON SUPERCHARGED
and it makes 450Nm you idiot!
and as stock and as it is now at 383Nm and 190kW it does beat the TRD
you dude! wake up!!!
;)
ALSO
….. i tend to write too fast … trying to explain it all but i cant. I seem to be trying hard to find new words to shut this TP dude out.
TRD Aurion is a front wheel drive car, its 1600-1700kg , around there.
It has a higher drag coefficient than a Falcon , its a littie taller too;) yet again smaller car overall.
it has 241kW via the same 6 speed gearbox as found in standard 200kW.
it loses too much power trough the complex frontwheel drive system. thats the nature of such mechanisms.
The stock BA 190kW … or even older 182kW are FREED UP CARS
why?
because they are REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE
there is less clutter , less friction and work done in the drivetrain.
The engine is 4Litre;) … it has more internal INERTIA and the CENTRIFICAL force thats acting around the flywheel is greater than on the 241kW Aurion.
so at the end of the day the 241kW AURION does 8 to 9 seconds … depending on the road for 0-100 , and the 200kW does 9 to 10 seconds depending on the road.
while the stock BA182 Station Wagon on Gas 4 speed auto does 7-8 seconds.
the stock BA/BF will do just under 7seconds to high 7s.
depending on how you launch it … excluding the manual.
The BA/BF will beat the both stock and TRD for the roll start acceleration , overtaking under heavy loads and top speed.
The top speed of a stock BA XT 182kW is 267km/h and 190 at 270km/h.
you dont know what you are on about , the Aurion 241kW top speed is 240-245km/h top.
its a front wheel drive car , WAKE UP dude!
if it was 3.7Litre V6 supercharged 241kW/400Nm and FOURWHEEL drive
when i would shut up and say nothing in favor of FORD FALCON.
yet again i’d simly tell you that the Falcon has a NATURALLY ASPIRATED engine.
and TRD forced induction engine “SUPERCHARGED”
And another thing.
The BOSS290 engine costs more to make than a BOSS260
The Boss260 is identical as Barra220/230 as far as the block/pistons/rings/crank goes and a few other mechanicals.
The Barra has a legendary TORQUE factory 3V Head
and the BOSS has 4V head which was designed for midrange/highrange torque , yet still has a good 450Nm+ at just 1500rpm.
The ORION wont have the BOSS290 engine set up.
Trust me on this one.
The Boss290 engine has different internals from Boss260 platform , the same bore and stroke.
but tougher con rods , piston rings , crank shaft.
Its designed to reve a little higher.
Though both Boss260 and 290 can reach a maximum engine velocity of 8500rpm before they explode at 9000rpm.
the perfect tune is 260kW@5250 and 290@5500 … yet they reve to about 6000-6200 or 6500rpm when they are electronically limited cut off range.
The ORION XR8 will have a regular now 5 year old Boss260 platform 100% identical.
It will just have DIFFERENT “PARAMETERS” in the assembley language ‘machine language’ usually programmed via OBDC port “Serial Port” RS232 type of communication … usually in the C or Java IDE/compiler.
so it will only have 30kW more ’30kW that allready exist in the ECU”
and extra 20-30Nm of torque … which will be TAPPED in to via new FIRMWARE/TUNE UP described above.
having the BOSS290 mechanicals in the XR8 wont be possible , it will cost more.
And also … the ORION will have a heaveir front suspension since it will be borrowed from TERRITORY.
;)
What i just said is the fact.
Not an opinion.
;) as i told you before think of it like this
5408cc / 2 = 2704cc per engine bank , each with 4Valves.
thats at leats 150-160kW per 2704ccs …… so the Boss260 should make at least 320kW.
they are there ,… but JUST -DETUNED- restricted to 260.
to make the new way for future models and to be sold as 290kW.
but in fact its the same motor;)
BA………..Im a Rev HEAD FROM YEARS AGO…………20 something……….
So as a avid reader of anything FORD……..or FPV……..and side owner………….I know what can be obtained from them!Especially after market………..
Me ………I have my internal contacts……..This car will amaze ……….In every sense of the word!!!!!AnthonyN will agree!!!!
BA………….whats your PM …………..I need to chat!
Go to the Forum you will find me!
if the new naturally aspirated 4Litre ORION really makes 205kW and 395Nm or more.
i will buy one with in 24 hours from the launch day!
i think i said something similar before…
Alex;)
Interesting. My previous message was taken off.
This is a waste of time.
Goodbye, you cant even express your opinions here , where is the democracy , this is Australia in 2008 , not in 1951.
freedom of speech , wake up!
good riddance , who ever is the administrator of this site…. i am laughing at you.
TP go away , we dont need your fixed ideas.
Samantha
“While both versions of the American V6 out-power Ford Australia’s existing 4.0-litre inline six, it’s the improved torque of the 3.7-litre that will surely make it easier to deliver the kind of performance Falcon and Territory drivers are used to”. Quote from wheels
Eat your heart out BFII. Whats your opinion. Global platforms global engines,all down to economics, nothing to do with performance.
I will grab the latest Wheels mag (CGI Orion XR8 on the front), but where is that quote from Noname/Cupid Stunt? And what torque figures are we talking here? I just find it hard to believe a smaller capacity V6 has equal or more torque than the long-stroke I6 without being force-fed.
BA ARE YOU THICK MATE???? How old are you… even drive yet? All your evidence is based on ‘I saw this race’, you have nothing. TRD does 100 in 8-9seconds wtf!!!!! Your a goose mate, if this was a gee up I woudlnt bother but its sad that I think you actually believe the Aurion does the 100 in 10 seconds… when a V6 Camry of 20 years is in the 9′s with 60kw and 70Nm less!!! And then the TRD does the 100 in 8s… ffs. Somehow in your twisted mind FWD, which mind you has more power actually getting to the wheels, means a 240kw and 400Nm car (beating the Falcon in ALL areas… particular power, by a significant margin) cant beat the 190kw and Falcon. The regular Aurion is a touch faster you idiot, the TRD leaves the regular Falcon for DEAD!!! I provided a link of the Aurion v Falcon over quarter mile, wich you conveniently disregard, putting this drag coefficient BS hasving a major effect to rest, the Aurion wins by car lengths. Next post Im providing links (not in this one cos it will hold back post until moderated)… Id like to see some evidence that the TRD does 100 in 8seconds or Aurion in 10, NOT your ridiculous ‘I saw a race’ claims.
Andrew the XR6T is a poor mans performance car, the TRD has alot of other features to not just curtains. The Tyhpoon on the other hand, different story. What your trying to claim is what Ford tend to disagree with, its why they made the Typhoon, differentiate between buddget performance and true performance.
Toyota Aurion:
Performance for the front-wheel driver is a claimed 0-100km/h in 7.4secs
http://editorial.carsales.com......61246.aspx
ACCELERATION: 0-100km/h 7.42 seconds
http://www.roadtester.com.au/T.....n-397.aspx
With its 1590kg kerb weight, the entry-level Aurion’s 200kW V6 engine propels it from zero to 100km/h in 7.4 seconds
http://www.webwombat.com.au/mo.....rion-1.htm
TRD Aurion:
With a claimed 6.1 second 0-100km/h dash the TRD Aurion is very quick in a straight line – we almost beat a Nissan 350Z to 70km/h from standstill
http://www.webwombat.com.au/mo.....review.htm
Weighing in at 1615-1630kg, the TRD Aurion sprints from rest to 100km/h in a time of 6.1 seconds via its front-wheel drive layout.
http://www.zcars.com.au/toyota-aurion-trd/
An official 0-100km/h acceleration time of 6.09 seconds (1.3 seconds better than the base Aurion AT-X, which claims 7.4 seconds) and a standing 400-metre sprint time of 14.2 seconds puts the trD Aurion in the same performance ballpark as the rear-drive XR6T, XR8 and even FPV’s GT – and hot on the heels of Holden’s 6.0-litre V8-powered SS models.
http://www1.autotrader.com.au/.....3F00225F08
————————————–
Shove that up your pipe and smoke it, I particularly like the 350z comment, a RWD… good for 100 in 5.5… just beat a TRD… but yes the TRD does 100 in 9 seconds…
Im impatient, I have posted links to these in previous post… awaiating moderator review, for now here are the exerts from the links…
Toyota Aurion:
Performance for the front-wheel driver is a claimed 0-100km/h in 7.4secs
ACCELERATION: 0-100km/h 7.42 seconds
With its 1590kg kerb weight, the entry-level Aurion’s 200kW V6 engine propels it from zero to 100km/h in 7.4 seconds
TRD Aurion:
With a claimed 6.1 second 0-100km/h dash the TRD Aurion is very quick in a straight line – we almost beat a Nissan 350Z to 70km/h from standstill
Weighing in at 1615-1630kg, the TRD Aurion sprints from rest to 100km/h in a time of 6.1 seconds via its front-wheel drive layout.
An official 0-100km/h acceleration time of 6.09 seconds (1.3 seconds better than the base Aurion AT-X, which claims 7.4 seconds) and a standing 400-metre sprint time of 14.2 seconds puts the trD Aurion in the same performance ballpark as the rear-drive XR6T, XR8 and even FPV’s GT – and hot on the heels of Holden’s 6.0-litre V8-powered SS models.
TP,
at least you have gotten over this BS that the Aurion does 6.9sec.
The XR6t is aimed for a larger volume of performance buyers. they target those who just want performance meaning they can keep the price lower and move a few more units.
people who want performance usually couldnt give 2 stuffs about curtain airbags
No Andrew I havent… the fact is it was tested by Drive I believe for 6.9seconds based on a satellite test. Not me or you can say thats right or wrong realistically, we havent timed it… and in your and many others here case, havent even driven the Aurion to get even a distinct impression of its acceleration. As for second bit, yes, thats why I say poor mans performance car, Im not saying that because I think the XR6T is crap… Im saying that because its the facts, its rough around the edges so to speak, the Typhoon and TRD are more of a complete package.
yes but when peopl go shopping for a performance car the TRD wont hit the mark. they didnt really concentrate enough on the”performance” aspect.
if the TRD doesnt really have the performance aspect then it isnt really a performance car package.
when they got 6.9 from the aurion did they test the falcon too?
thats the point. when they HAVE been tested together in fair conditions they run the same.
it must have been running with a fair ole tail wind to pick up an extra .52 secs
Yes they did test the Falcon, 7.4 seconds… they tested them all for the car of the year award.
As for TRD how wont it hit the mark, enlighten me? Many a review has complimented its handling attributes… its brakes… its power and refinement… its features -> torque steer is the only issue highlighted, which owners tend to disagree with reviews on, the people that drive these things for more than 1 week!
Getting off topic though aernt we, I WANT BA TO RESPOND TO THIS TRD IN 8SEC AND AURION IN 10SECS CRAP.
TP, this person “BA/BFII” said he was leaving for good, maybe he’ll be back, maybe not.
I want to see you respond to that claim you made on the ZR6 blog, you’ve ignored it at least half a dozen times. Is it really that hard to just admit you were wrong? Are you afraid being wrong sometimes may make everyone doubt your credibility?
Anyone think that the poor old BF mark II XR8 owners are going to feel ripped when the new 290 kw comes out?????
It will be like buying an old GT performance for the same money as an XR8………..you can imagine what that’s going to do to the resale value of the old ones?????
Oh almost forgot to say……..almost cracked the $100 of fuel in the Cobra last night.
$99.28c………..unreal……….I remember that filling a 36 gallon tank in the XY GT cost that……..20 years ago…….that was a lot of money in fuel,hate to fill one now!
Earliest fuel price I remember BM is 42.9c/L
Those were the days ;-)
Re:XR8 – Maybe, but it won’t have Brembos, no-cost-option ZF-6speed, aggressive body kit, or the name plate. I guess those are the sort of things you pay extra for.
Ooops, disregard ^^^^ , I read your question wrong.
TP,
the reviews say it is a handfull when you push it like a performance car should be pushed. also the whole feel of the car when you sit in it is also knocked around a bit from reviewers. sorry but no arguing that the XR6T is prob your best performance buy.
Watto,
mate what the hell are you doing?? get to the back of the line Mate!!!!! TP owes me about 3 apologies before you thank you very much!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha
BM,
i know fuel prices are climbing hey.
get this……
I am now cracking $40 to fill my LPG falcon:o!!!!GRRRRRRRRR
:) ha ha ha ha ha
hahaha………..hey Watto…….your up!
Late morning!!!!
Yep sorry honey just talking about the performance side of things!
hahaha……Andrew,you bragging…..hehehe
$40.00…….didums……
I guess Ill be driving the German ricer…..it at least gets 12.5 litre per 100 ks not 17 like the Cobra!!!!
What ya think about a German Ricer on gas……..???? You ever seen one??
ah just rip the BMW Inline donk right out of that piece of crap and then plonk the 4.0L Inline in its place. (might have to toughen the coils though ha ha ha ha)
you can even have my LPG donk cause i spied the dealership Phoonman works at has a great price on a Lowndes XR6T at the moment :)
dont know much about the euros on gas. from what i gather they are too interested in throwing straight oil (diesel) in them and calling it fuel.
Piece of crap…….hahahaha………..may have to cut the shocker towers out too…..just make it fit!
I would think a suspension upgrade would be needed ……sure it would handle like a dream after too!
So back to the diesel M3 thought you think!Naaaaaaaa might go battery power……..The first plug in M3……hehehe
eeeewwwww plug in M3.
Ill tell ya where you can plug that. and solar panels wont help it there cause apparently there aint no sunshine where you will be plugging it ha ha ha
Yep, Andrew.M, I jumped the line ;-) What price on the Lowndes ute?
How was the get together last night BM?
Watto,
39K and thats with the ZF6 Auto, Leather and the goodies that come with the “Lowndes” pack.
I just came back from the Australia day rally and it’s so hard to believe a Lotus got smashed in it!
Dont start on apologies Andrew… I remember you an Ross trying to get me to apologise to you over something ages back and in the end I proved ya’s wrong, you never said sorry.
As for TRD what reviews? Ive actually sat my ar*e in a fair few cars both testing and at the motor show over 5 years or so… the TRD was VERY comfortable, in fact Ive seens reviews complement its seats mate. Where you get that report, Wheels car mag?
As for ZR6 I cant find it, link me, even if it waits moderation I will get to it when I can… if its over 0-100 in 6.9seconds well sorry, thats what Drive said.
I wasn’t disputing figures. I was talking about how you accused Andrew.M and myself of attacking Mash when it was other people abusing him on the ZR6 Sportivo blog.
Andrew sid…..eeeewwwww plug in M3.
Ill tell ya where you can plug that. and solar panels wont help it there cause apparently there aint no sunshine where you will be plugging it ha ha ha
Geez….thanks MATE…….hehehe
Hey Watto……..last night,yep was good……..it will more than likely become a monthly event in Perth Im hoping….Had a good chat about this week on CA…….and what we thought about the Toyota trio…..that being said we don’t have any problems with any Toyota guys joining us…..we just don’t want car extremist of any denomination…..its all about sharing the good and bad points of your cars and previous experiences. Pity ha don’t live here babe! Something Wheelnut already knows….hehehe
the 3.5Litre and 3.7Litre American V6 still wont have the same ammount of torque as the inline six.
yes it does have an improvied low end torque than most v6 engines out there.
but thats like saying that the holdens 3.6litre has the improved torque…
yea sure , but only over the old 3.8litre engine
so trying to compare the INLINE SIX 4Litre with 3.5 or 3.7Litre V6 is not applicable.
when the stock Barra182 makes 360Nm at just 1500rpm , the nature of the 3.5 and 3.7 V6 will be something like holdens 280-290Nm at reves under 2000rpm.
therefore the Ford Falcon Barra182 and 190 “those types of engines”
have more torque , you can not compare INLINE SIX technology with V6 technology , they are different worlds.
unless its the V8. … again there are 4×2 engine bands so will obviously outpower the v6 or inline six or flat six.
though the nature of inline six will always be the torque winner.
and you TP go screw yourself. i am 36 and my name is alex!
Seriously you are all sick in the head … you have no idea what you are all talking about
and this idiot TP who ever he is i dont care i am sure i am the God for him
Talks so much crap , so many lies so much propaganda and bull crap … Promoting some jap rise burner crap in our country.
how can you compare a shitty frontwheel drive to a rearwheel drive large car that has the tradition behind it that has the outstanding poularity and its all backed up by the fact.
how can you compare the try hard vehicle to the vehicle thats all ready there
how can you talk so much crap , some say 6.1s , some say 6.8
dude i have driven an Aurion TRD and i timed it to do 7.4 seconds and it did not go any faster for 8 times that i have tried it.
the foot was all the way to the floor and i wanted to yield out better results but it did not happen.
dude! yes you fag TP dude yes you;)
the stock 200kW , did just under 10 seconds , i drove it several times three different cars and it did not manage anything lower than 10.
so shut your mouth and go away.
When you learn about mechanics , when you research on torque vs power vs time vs rpm , and when you get to know the basic laws of classical physics then come here to say bull crap.
we dont need your lies.
and who ever thinks that the V6 Duratec is gona beat the Inline six for torque is mad too.
The Ford Cyclone engine “Duratec” will never match the power and torque and reliability of our Australian designed and engineered 4Litre DOHC
it will only be a new engine thats all.
I am sick of the crap of some idiots who think in a very wrong way commenting rubish in this forum.
get your facts straight and read what i am saying , you’ll learn something
FORD ALL THE WAY , FORD AUSTRALIA!
TP, Wheels has Aurion at 7.4, 0 to 100km/hr
na dont think xr8 orion is gona be as quick as ba/bf gt.
i have heard that it wont be the same engine mechanically as ba/bf gts , it will only be a tweak up which can be done by using powerchip gold98 on your current ba/bf xr8.
you will get 290kw and over 530nm.
Samolla
yea my Skoda does that!
listen here dude TP.
thats all marketing.
go drive it yourself , take a digital timer or get the laser one or sat/nav. and check it for yourself.
the stock 200kW does just under 10s .. and in most cases 9 seconds depending how you star off.
also.
the TRD does very high 6s to high 7s , depending again.
it can be more than 7 at times.
also
all those 0-100km/h times are good with one driver in the car , average weight of 85kg.
but once you start putting in people , say 3 or more.
the car slows down dramatically.
go Ford for that sort of application , stuffing people around the long distances and trips , pulling railers and accelerating under heavy loads, moving masses accross our beautiful land.
now some front wheel drive car that can only cause an accident if filled with load and people and a trailer.
getting off the topic?
i know it is… somethings need to be explained
why do you see many commodore accidents and deaths on the road involving trailers behind commodores?
why
because they are weak unless a “VE 270-307KW V8″
and that has never happened so far with any Falcon.
wa hahahahahaa
na dont think xr8 orion is gona be as quick as ba/bf gt.
NAAAAAAAA,I think your wrong there sorry,if it aint broke why fix it? It Took Ford long enough to get the Barra right with the GT…..it has the same torque as the current BF GT………Its the same babe!Remember what it has to go up against with Holden……
BFII………honey your wasting your breath on TP……. god knows we have all tried!
As for the Toyota trio……..
# jbot Says:
January 26th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
TP, Wheels has Aurion at 7.4, 0 to 100km/hr
Who cares……..yawn!!!!!!!!!!
When anything is that slow no one surely is interested in racing any one at the lights…..hahaha…..get real! What ya hoping with a mod you might break into the 6s…..ouuuuuuuu,scary!!!!!
Easy BFII. I wholeheartedly agree dropping the inline6 for a Duratech V6 is a bad thing (unless they coax a lot more torque out of it). I wouldn’t want a V6 like in the VE that you have to rev the ring out of it to get anywhere.
The reason the I6 is going is economy of scale. Australia is a pretty small market compared to yank and euro. Sinking a lot of money into I6 to achieve EuroIV emissions standards doesn’t stack up well with the beancounters when they can just grab a V6 that already meets those standards from the US a la GM Holden.
A real shame because FordOZ says there is still heaps of potential left in it. The last truly Oz designed and built engine.
BM are you kidding… your actually agreeing with this kid, surely you are not that THICK… and your talking about racing when this guy is the one who has talked about races. Your getting dumber by the day Im afraid… mid life crisis?
BF judging by your posting and further to the point, your complete lack of knowledge, I very much doubt you are 36. You are a complete idiot, I have provided evidence for the Aurion and TRD times, your trying to claim 5+ sources of information who have all actually driven the vehicles in question are wrong? Riiiiiight. You also claim you’ve lol driven the TRD and timed it at 7.4 seconds. You are a complete joke. You want confirmation of regular Aurion acceleration go to youtube, there is no somehow lies from indepedent car reviewrs their, simply videos of them sprinting to 100 in 7 seconds. And note, Ive ACTUALLY driven the Aurion, Ive driven in EF Falcons, a distinct differences in acceleration… oh but I forgot you recon the EA can beat a TRD. Idiot.
BM, Funny thing is the base Aurion is faster than the N/A I6 Falcons (0-100km/hr)… And neither TP or I made any mention of racing… If you were serious about a performance car, you wouldv’e gone for the VE HSV over your Cobra, as it will beat you every time in your “races”.
Ouch!
Hey TP the stock 4Litre naturally aspirated 182kW variant of a BA makes 318Nm at just 1000rpm
dude wake up!
what does the stock 200kW Aurion make? 185Nm at 1000rpm ???
go get a life , dont come back here and stop re-posting the blogs in other peoples names so it looks like as if somebody is actually supporting your propaganda.
i know people who have have had a VP Calais V8 5.0 with only 165kW
his wife just got a car from work to use.
its a 200kW Aurion.
and dude now i will make you shut up!
dude!!! yes you crazy TP dude!;)
the stock 165kW V8 wipes the ass with Aurion 200kW;)
where did its 35kW? disappear too???? ahahaha 330Nm vs 385Nm V8
wake up idiot!
;)
the stock 200kW Aurion does the same time as 141kW Avalon in 0-100km/h.
;)
the stock Falcon BA-BF do under 7s 0-100km/h
and all other intermediate accelerations are much quicker than Aurion which is front wheel drive piece of crap;)
try roll start a falcon at 50km/h and Aurion … the Falcon will disappear infront of it by 10 car lenghts …
you idiots!
Put it this way …. what the stock EAII Falcon which is an outdated shit box nowdays , what the stock EAII does at 2000rpm …
the top of the line SV6 VE from holden does at 3500rpm.
;)
ahahaa
and then throw the stock EB ,ED , EF , EL , AU or BA or BF in to the equation and those cars easily eat those crappadoers toyota camrys and aurions and magnas and 380s.
;)
the Falcon 4Litre engine is a very superior engine.
AND ITS ARCHITECTURE AND NATURE is to make LOADS!!! OF TORQUE
T- DXF … get it????
Stroke x Force of the piston and the mass of the piston! + the compression!
you idiots!
thats why they make like 318Nm at just 1000rpm …
thats 50Nm more than the 6Litre HSV 307kW top of the line LS2;)
ahahahahahahaha wahahahahahaahah i am laughing!
and then some fag called TP probably a dealer who has no character , not even here in the virtual world trys to prove something that will never happen.
and that is for the 3.5Litre Toyota to be better than 4Litre I6 Ford.
that will never happen.
as i told you fags… even the Hondas 217kW 3.5kW doesnt match the stock and basic 157kW EF/EL/AU for pulling , towing and acceleration;)
the falcon is simple , rearwheel drive and granted by torque and a very responsive engine!
;)
there is no engine out there as sweet as our 4LITRE DOHC!
get over it !!!
FORD WINS!!!
;)
AND ALSO YOU TP IDIOT;)
I DID NOT SAY “EA” AS EA GL FALCON
THE EA GL FALCON IS NOT INJECTED.
it makes only 120kW/320Nm … still makes more torque at 1500rpm than supercharged TRD Aurion though;)
ahahahahaahahah you fag!
what i meant was the EAII 3.9Litre MPFI Multi Point Fuel Injected 139kW@4500 / 339Nm@3500rpm
;) not the stock EA with carby!
;) you are framing people here with the lack of truth in your facts;)
TP GO HOME!!!
TP GO HOME GO HARD;) YOUR CRAP WE DONT NEED!
If this BFII fella doesn’t get banned, no one should. What a nuisance.
I agree with BFII.
i own 2003 XRT (all stock) no mods.
The car has 129000ks and its 5 speed manual , old one 1st model SHOCKWAVE color.
and its faster than Aurion TRD or what eva you call it.
I went to Calder park last week and i did 14.0s flat and Aurion TRD did 15.8 seconds 400m time that my old VR SS automatic could with ease , TRD also had thicker tyres at the front of his TRD and i heard his was also TUNED.
MY XR6T remained stock , with 3 year old tyres.
And i still bet him.
Anybody here on my side? apart from BFII???????????
Dan = What a nuisance.
We live in Australia , this is an Australian site and therefore we can say what we want. Freedom Of Speech.
end of story.
All of you put together on this forum get your acts back together and speak of the facts.
Falcons baseline SIX is better than a Aurions baseline V6.
End of conversation.
The end.
Fin.
Don’t you two realise that these “races” you have prove nothing?? Put the same drivers in each car at, based on official figures, the STANDARD Aurion will beat the STANDARD Falcon by 0.1s to 100km/hr, and the TRD will be over 1s ahead. End of story.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,Dan that depends on the driver..reaction time……Im guessing as a female Ill nail it anyway………..seems we as launchers…..we are better than blokes!!!!!!!!!!0.1 is nothing…….not in those times…………pathetic
Especially if I have to nail a Toyota these days….G O N E ………………………………..
Agree BM,arguing over 0.1 of a second is nuts.
Glad I have other things to distract & occupy me.
I dont deny the attributes of Fords I6 but what are the fans going to do after 2010?
Try shoe horning it into something else?
They will have only have a V6 to play with.
Read in another site that post ORION nothing is guaranteed.
Crown Victoria imported here? Yuck.
This isnt arguing over 0.1 second David… if you’ve read earlier this BF idiot claims the Aurion does the 100 in 10 seconds and the TRD in 8. Thats just ridiculous, I have been trying to point this out but he is to thick. I have also provided evidence in the forms of links to respected sites, he and his friends have provided… ‘Oh I beat this guy in a race’ evidence. Highly credible.
Paul………….who cares,either way its hardly performance figures!!!!!!
BM, Funny thing is the base Aurion is faster than the N/A I6 Falcons (0-100km/hr)… And neither TP or I made any mention of racing… If you were serious about a performance car, you wouldv’e gone for the VE HSV over your Cobra, as it will beat you every time in your “races”.
ahhhhhhhh,mate we didn’t buy the Cobra for performance.The BA
already did a quarter in 13.1…………what about the fact the Cobra went up in value by $23,000 in two weeks!
You ever driven anything fast??????????
So where is the Dingo?????????
You only have un,and deux [der]where is trois to make-up your Toyota trio………..
i am laughing, been gone from here a month and all the drongos have turned up!
Are we trying to compare the TRD Aurion to a Cobra is this what im hearing?
Hey honey……….guess what my anti spam word was BMWM3
Gee we have missed you!
TRD against FPV…………yep!
No thats not what we are hearing Tonyn.
BM no its not ‘who cares’, your turning into the sites joke recently… you attack other people such as Dingo over tiny issues yet this idiot here who is providing complete misinformation… and its ‘oh who cares’.
Tonyn I will give you the main argument in a paragraph… this BF guy is claiming an Aurion does the 100 in 10seconds and the TRD Aurion in 8seconds… I have been trying to drill some sense into the child
all sounds a bit messy to me!
As far as i know the aurion is quicker off the mark, where the falcon wins is in its long torque curve and RWD dynamics!
QUOTE – TP said:
“Dont start on apologies Andrew… I remember you an Ross trying to get me to apologise to you over something ages back and in the end I proved ya’s wrong, you never said sorry.”
Just to set the record straight Toyota Paul, you never proved anyone wrong but yourself by your own admission when you said that you admitted you don’t have a physics background at all and couldn’t understand what I was (attempting) to explain to you.
Therefore all that was proven was that you were in no position to have a technical debate on a subject you did not understand. It’s like discussing neurosurgery with a child. Everything said to you went straight over your head.
No offence to you if you don’t have the education, but you shouldn’t comment on things you do not understand.
Cheers.
Ross it wasnt the physics crap that I proved you two wrong, tbh I have forgotten exactly, think it might have been related to reliability, but it was about me making a claim about Andrew.M saying a particular thing… which he denied… then I dug out and showed you both up about.
As for the physics thing, its a free country and I can express my opinion… an opionion WHICH I SPPORTED WITH EVIDENCE remember… while your opnion WAS NOT, regardless of whether its right or not. But this concept of actually back your claims up is like trying to explain neurosurgery to a child!!
TP,
mate you never proved me wrong on anything!!!!
i got you on about 3 things!!!!
what do you reckon you proved me wrong on?
i suppose i did apologise to you once but thats because i accused you of “using centrelink computers to post your dribble”.
but afterwards i got you a Kleenex and said sorry didnt I?
at least i have a record of apologising when its due so if you had me on soemthing else i would have acknowledged it by saying sorry
ah thanks TP,
i remember what it is now you think you proved my wrong on,
you claimed i kept saying “ford had a better track record when it came to reliability” yet you were unable to show me those exact words.
and what about when i pipped you for saying toyotas are bulletproof, and when i knocked it back with plenty of examples you claimed that you didnt say that. then i pull up a quote from you showing those EXACT words.
No I found the exact words… please dont make me search for an hour to get it, the argument is in the past. As for bulletproof that was a interpretation thing, you people turned that into me suggesting they NEVER had problem which is ridiciulous, I meant they are better then others, which those stats I provided (55% of Falcons have problems in first months etc) proved
QUOTE – TP said:
“…As for bulletproof that was a interpretation thing, you people turned that into me suggesting they NEVER had problem which is ridiciulous…”
Oh REALLY TP.. so now we are meant to INTERPRET your words other than their ACTUAL meaning??
STOP your constant backpeddling, step up like a man and admit you were wrong!!!
Can I give you the definitions of bulletproof from dictionary online….
1) safe from failure; WITHOUT ERRORS OR SHORTCOMING and BEYOND CRITICISM.
2) WITHOUT FLAWS or loopholes
3) Used of an algorithm or implementation considered extremely robust; lossage-resistant; capable of correctly recovering from any imaginable exception condition.
NOW TELL EVERYONE HERE HOW WE ARE MEANT TO INTEPRET BULLETPROOF OTHER THAN JUST THAT?!!
You are a pathetic. You say you provide evidence?? OTHER DO TOO YO UJUST IGNORE IT!! I provide links to reputable websites, but you simply gloss over anything given to you. I read every little lie you write on here, but only comment on ones where you directly refer to me.
I would love to post back to so much misinformation you spread in these blogs, but plain and simple, I dont have time during the week for little, ill-educated, and verbal diarrohea dribbling twits like yourself.
Ross you are one little , ill-educated, and verbal diarrohea dribbling twits like yourself.
when online you can write with out the capital letter , with out the comma or a full stop , the same goes for email
you can start anywhere and you dont need to check your grammer
especially on the blogs and especially when you’re communicating to ill-educated scum like you wanker;)
ah hahaha
you must be sick to think that a 336Nm car beats the 383Nm car with more balls everywhere at every RPM point.
you are sick in the head;) all of ya who are against the 4Litre BA/BF FALCONS;)
Bulletproof is often used to describe things that rarely have problems, not things that are literally unbreakable.
My V8 5 speed manual Falcon SR beats the Aurion TRD supercharged…..
are you happy now? 400Nm TRD vs 472Nm Falcon SR V8 5.4.
or 400Nm TRD vs 500-510Nm Falcon SR V8 5.4 when on premium!!! ahahahaa
go to hell ;) LMAO!
you beat me to that Bulletproof definition thing Ross.
so TP did you abuse us for you lack of understanding for the english dictionary? we all know exactlly what you were portraying
also YES i would like you to search for the sentence where i stated “ford has a better track record than toyota when it comes to reliability”
if you find those EXACT words i give my word that an apology will be coming your way.
last time all you found was something else that YOU thought meant that. all i have mainly said on the topic is that toyotas arent bulletproof as you make out, and that the difference between quality/reliability isnt as great as you make out
BAMkII, what the heck are you on about?? I am saying that Toyota Paul is talking rubbish.. not yourself?!
Stock OHC 4Litre can do over 1000000km when serviced every 10000km.
thats close to 600000km more than what any production V6 engine out there in the world , from Nissan Maxima to Mitsubishi Magna 3.5/3.8 to Toyota Camry / Avalon 3.0 to 3.5 Aurion can do.
;)
yes OHC/DOHC say EB engine can do 1000000km or more.
There are taxy EFs/ELs and AUs out there with 1.1million ks on them
and all they had to change was just a gear box during the half of its life.
and 1 out of 10 a headgasket and why? because they all run on GAS , therefore the internal combustion chamber temperatures are higher than what you get in petrol driven Falcon.
therefore 1000000ks is great on a GAS driven car.
;)
i owned an ED and it had close to 550000 in 2006.
that was the real car! with extractors and chip 200kW/420Nm.
oh i remember that car!
Okays sorry ROSS.
man … i didnt know it was meant to hit me.
;) TP is claming some 0-100km/h times.
and all i want to explain to that dude who ever he is, is that the 4Litre engine is superior even to the TRD version.
;)
Toyota Aurion is a high quality car as a CAR. “body” “suspension” “braking system” “interior” etc etc …
but i dont like the driveline , engine and the gear-shift secion in the car. Looks ugly.
And here is another clue.
Give that old boxy EB or ED Falcon “mild cams” and stiffer valve springs. It totally changes the engine RPM character.
it reves higher faster … its quicker ,its more responsive.
they should have fitted it in the factory … and it would still do 1000000ks ahahaah
and you get 220-250+kW out of it with out even touching the exhaust and the ECU.
and the torque??? … people say that stock 307kW HSV cant keep up with them ahahaahaha and it wont cost you more than $1000 LMAO!
wahahahahahahaha where is your TRD Aurion now?
Where have you been Ross?
Remember TP, FPV and HSV are well ahead of T(u)RD.
i totally agree with BAMkII!
he/she is totally right!
Sam
Hey BAMK11,
ive got 1K for you to throw a few parts at my falcon to give me 250kw in return ha ha ha ha
when you are not busy of course.
what do you do by the way mate?
i just love your passion
I’ll be second in line Andrew M!
sounds like someone have been drinking from the sewer fountains! i $1000 could give you HSV power out of an EA id be driving one now! sorry mate but did you own a commodore before your ford?
Sign me up too ;-)
Ross, as usual your taking this argument on a tangent, this is about BA and his claims of Aurion doing 100 in 10 seconds and TRD in 8 seconds, shove your nitpicking of previous posts where I embaressed your attacks on me up your a*rse. Mind you, your an idiot, as Dan says its used to describe something with good reliability… do I honestly have to link 1000 sites which mention how something is bulletproof, from computers to cars, all which obviously aernt completley free of problems… but such a phrase being used to describe how they are very reliable.
BA hahahah Im beginning to think your a joke poster, Falcon making it to 1,000,000 kms? Fair enough a Taxi, so will every other Taxi… they have easier lifes then most cars; serviced properly, long trips (most engine wear occurs on start up). Perhaps with 5 rebuilts a regular Falcon MIGHT make it their! If I was a falcon owner Id just be praying that it makes it 5 months without an engine problem, although this is unlikely given the statistic is 55% of Falcons need to return to the dealership within 5 months due to problems, often engine related. Btw Im still waiting for evidence for your claimed times for the Aurion, again I will post quotes of external sites talking about their accleration:
Toyota Aurion:
Performance for the front-wheel driver is a claimed 0-100km/h in 7.4secs
ACCELERATION: 0-100km/h 7.42 seconds
With its 1590kg kerb weight, the entry-level Aurion’s 200kW V6 engine propels it from zero to 100km/h in 7.4 seconds
TRD Aurion:
With a claimed 6.1 second 0-100km/h dash the TRD Aurion is very quick in a straight line – we almost beat a Nissan 350Z to 70km/h from standstill
Weighing in at 1615-1630kg, the TRD Aurion sprints from rest to 100km/h in a time of 6.1 seconds via its front-wheel drive layout.
An official 0-100km/h acceleration time of 6.09 seconds (1.3 seconds better than the base Aurion AT-X, which claims 7.4 seconds) and a standing 400-metre sprint time of 14.2 seconds puts the trD Aurion in the same performance ballpark as the rear-drive XR6T, XR8 and even FPV’s GT – and hot on the heels of Holden’s 6.0-litre V8-powered SS models.
You seem obsessed with this 4L engine, you claim its the best engine in the world despite never having won any international awards… and despite Ford themselves dropping it from the future!!! Time for a reality check, its an alrite engine, but it still has nothing on the Aurions which I will mention for the 1000th time, is a derivative of the same engine which was in Wards top 10 engines of the year for 2007.
TP,
whether or not you actually meant bullet proof or not the point is you continuously called me a liar for quoting you as saying that they were bulletproof.
stop defending the taxis doing a million K’s idea with them getting an easier life. have you seen how taxi drivers drive?
sorry mate but it is a fact that taxi owners prefer them over their V6 counterparts (commy and toyotas) as they do run a million miles.
ive been told by a taxi owner that they use the falcons because they do last longer but beyond that they are cheaper to fix if something did go wrong. and usually all that they may need to replace is a transmission or diff. the actual motors themselves DO run a million k’s
I find it funny that you demand everyone go back to your argument with BFII when you won’t respond to me asking for proof of where Andrew.M or myself attacked MASH.
I told you TP to go away
the front wheel drive car to do 6.1seconds is not possible at 241kW and only 400Nm it wont happen.
If it was 300kW/500-600Nm then YES;)
the OHC Falcon engines , specially from EAII to BFII can do over 1000000ks.
they are slightly cheaper than foreign designed buick/gm V6s and parts are cheaper because 100% profit goes here .
Falcons are better quality than Commodores and Toyotas and Magnas.
thats the fact.
every TAXI driver has a different driving sytle and the 4Litre Falcon taxies “MAJORITY” are 4Litre are always abused
to different driving styles.
Therefore , if that was a V6 or V8 Commodore or Toyota Avalon or Camry or Aurion or Mitsbuishy magna or Kia or Honda
it wouldnt even get close to 500000ks.
Hondas are only good for bikes and 2 stroke and small “very small displacement 4 stroke engines”
A typical Ford Falcon BA 182kW which is 2nd hand now and can be bought for $10000 can propel itself 0-100km/h in under 7 seconds.
;)
brand new Aurion 200kW in real life “not in magazines fulfilled with lies” can do just over 9 seconds.
241kW does either 7 or 8 seconds.
I have driven them.
its pathetic that it does 60km/h at 6500rpm in 1st ahaha
Typical 4 speed Falcon with locally sourced/engineered 4 speed does close to 100kmh at 6000rpm for stock BA.
What are you talking about TP
try thrash and bash your Aurion like they bash the Falcon in taxi and government use.
we’ll see how long it lasts.
and yea … the Honda Legend with 217kW@6200rpm and 351Nm at 5000rpm is easily beaten by a stock EL GLi.
this is no joke.
dude! ;)
the BF with 6 speed ZF eats it.
;)
it doesnt reve at 2700rpm in 6th at 100km/h , it does 1500rpm in 6th at 100km/h
i’d like to see the Aurion do that …
whats the point having all these short/close little gear ratios .
Ford Falcon all the way!
ALSO________________
READ CLOSER.
Sure the Aurion 200kW is okay to drive.
But to move it needs to be thrashed.
;)
By default its smaller and yet very different V6 vs I6 engine works a lot harder vs Ford Falcons I6.
;)
so in otherwords Falcons engine architecture allows it to have low engine component internal velocity therefore less friction.
the falcon can run literally with low levels of oil and it wont stop.
I’d like to see Aurion do that ;) it wouldnt last 10km.
With 4Litre you can travel the whole country 10 times and it wont overheat or make the noise like holden or toyota or mitsubishi do.
;)
Nissan Skyline had a legendary 2.5 to 3.0Litre Inline six.
best engines ever , and the Falcon is one step better its a 4Litre.
The XR6/XR6T cult has allready been created , we love them I6 engines.
they are the best and of the right size!!!
4000cc yea baby!!!!!!! perfect for 800-1500kW power projects!!
;)
Ford all the way! and the stock Aurion does 9 or 10 seconds , depending how a grandpa floors it;) and how he responds;)
and at the end of the day the stock 165kW VP V8 5Litre commodore eats it … the stock ED eats it … ED or EB XR6 kill it and totally put them both in to a shame!
;)
I owned 200kw Aurion , the car was returned in just 4 days after i’ve been disappointed by its overtaking responce, didnt buy it i am keeping my old BA series 2 xr6.
At least it has the real body kit and a much quicker car.
My boyfriend agrees with me too, we might keep the Falcon for 2 more years.
Lauren
98% of Taxi cars do the “STOP AND GO” movements , therefore they are not always driven on long trips where the gearchange and engine tharsing is applied.
Taxi cars are serviced regularly true. I am sure that private Falcons are serviced regularly too.
WHEN AN OHC/DOHC ENGINE IS SERVICED EVERY 5000KS.
1)NEW OIL
2)OIL FILTER
The car will last to over 1000000km “ENGINE” and most parts around the enigne span up to from 500000-800000
WHEN THE FOLLOWING PARTS ARE SERVICED EVERY 10000KS.
1)PETROL FILTER
2)SPARK PLUGS
3)AIR FILTER
It will reach an easy 10000000km.
;)
When everything is serviced at once every 100000km.
The chances of reaching 1000000km are possible too … but it might reach a good 700000-80000km easy.
I’ve seen several Taxies with 750000-900000km and i have personally seen an old 1996 EL GLi with 1.3million KS
and all they replaced was 1 radiator , 1 gear box , 1 alternator, 1 petrol pump , injectors were changed once, 5 batteries , and the regular service and 3 sets of disk brakes in those 1.3million KS
and the car still goes like new;)
and they can be bought cheap at auction for under $1000, $500 sometimes in working order;)
and can still beat a 200kW Aurion ahahaaha
READ THIS FACT:
All 4Litre OHC and DOHC Ford Falcons:
EA/EAII,EB,EBII,ED,EDII,EF,EFII,EL,AU,AUII,AUIII,BA,BA MkII,BF,BFII.
with 250000km + on the clock have not even started to live.
Thats not even the beginning for them.
Speaking of the Barra220/230 and BOSS engines. They’re as good as I6 engine and will reach 1000000km easy due to their quality and benchark vs GENIII and GEN4 LS type engines.
The old Falcons 5Litre Windsdor derrived from Ford Explorer/some mustang models pushrods life ends at close to 500000kms , and its no where near as good as I6 engine.
While for all cars such as eg:
Commodores:
VL,VN,VP,VR,VS,VT,VTII,VY,VYII,VZ,VZII,VE and VEII whether a V6 or a V8.
200000+ ks is the end of their engine life;)accross the board
ps: Gemini can last longer thanks to its Isuzu engine;)
how many 5Litre AUs have i seen being outlasted by the same car but with I6 engine.
;) i’ve seen at least eight;)
AndrewM no Taxis have an easier life, most engine wear occurs at start up as oil makes its way through the engine… and gets to operating temperature where it is most effective. Stop and go doesnt matter, a Taxi which is serviced regularly and drives long trips has a much easier life in terms of engine wear then a prviate car which has short trips to the shops and neglected servicing. I also doubt there are many examples even in light of this that make 1,000,000 kms trouble free. I do know however of examples of Camrys, in countries such as the U.S where they are exposed to harsher environmental conditions, making 600,000kms trouble free under private use. Now belive it or not, but anyone with half a brain would believe it… because Toyota didnt get its reliable reputation for nothing, its because they have lasted, while Ford are certainly not known for their reliability both in Australia and internationally.
BF all I can say is your a goose, you post page long reponses which are complete drivel… you have some idiotic idea that FWD makes a car significantly slower, which is ridiciulous, because as Ive mentioned because there are other issues that need to be considered; engine weight over the drive wheels is a good thing, FWD has less power loss through the drivetrain so more power actually gets to the wheels etc. To think a 200kw car with 330NM does the 100 in 10 seconds is a laugh, even more a laugh is the TRD with 240kw and 400NM you think does the 100 in 8… you are delusional! Despite all the support provided, you still somehow think there is a conspiracy, maybe instead of repeating the power and torque figures for your pos Falcons actually go out and Drive the Aurion (not talk about it), beacuse you obviously havent despite your claims, and then get back to me on its acceleration. Yet another armchair critic on a vehicle they havent driven… but worse, dont even have the slightest knowledge about.
Just read over your last post in more detail, you really are a joke… 250,000kms starting to live? You are lucky to get to 200,000kms trouble free…. 55% have to return to the dealership within 5 mnths (this is an industry FACT which Id link if it wanst for this sites moderation crap). On top of this I have forgotten how many AUs I use to see not long after their release burning oil… and the funniest of all, a week after the BA came out, broken down on the side of the road!!! And then you try to discrebit Toyotas intenrational reputation for reliabiluty. Go to any unbiases source and ask what is more reliable, a Falcon or a Camry… 90% of people overseas wont know what a Falcon is, but lets say they do, somehow they are going to say the Camry by light years… its an INTERNATIONAL car which has talked the talk and walked the walk in terms of reliablilty.
55% wa ha hahah
TP you are a laugh!
its not nice to be telling little lies;)
yea American conditions are harsher??? actually they are not;) its just a little longer and wider country roadwise and street wise thats all.
Its no place for a frontwheel drive car which wont last more than 300000ks.
The beginning for a Falcons engine is 250000+ … thats where the engine starts to live and work and wear out like any other engine.
Not like a typical Camry V6 which wears itsself out at just over 500000 or 60000ks.
;)
TP you are full of lies.
Falcon is imported to Malasya and Indonesia for Police use;)
yes the BA-BF are imported.
And Orion will replace Ford Crown Victoria in North America soon.
And they will get the Fairlane LTD “G8″ for Police cars with the same engine as in my SR V8 5.4Litre SOHC.
go away TP;) you are spitting some fake numbers here
you wont win here.
and 100% people overseas wont know what a commodore or holden is.
Falcon is unique to AUSTRALIA since 1960.
You are talking crap TP go root ur mum;)
by Lauren
I owned 200kw Aurion , the car was returned in just 4 days after i’ve been disappointed by its overtaking responce, didnt buy it i am keeping my old BA series 2 xr6.
At least it has the real body kit and a much quicker car.
My boyfriend agrees with me too, we might keep the Falcon for 2 more years.
Lauren
TP=”…and the funniest of all, a week after the BA came out, broken down on the side of the road!!!”
Interesting, because I’ve also seen VE, VY and yes “Aurion” on the side of the road within a month of release. I commute along the Hume Freeway everyday for work, always seeing broken down cars being attended by RACV/NRMA.
No car is immune, though I must admit I haven’t seen a new hilux. Mind you, that’s only my observations on a daily 1 hour trip on one bit of freeway.
You guys go on about these cars with 500,000kms and 1,000,000kms on them…. who in there right mine own a car with this much Kms on it??? seriously??? who owns a car with this many Kms unless it a classic like a GTHO or old GT or mustang…or something but not a simple falcon….. who really cares how many Kms a taxi does?? i will never own a taxi…and i will never own a car more then 100k – 150k kilometres on the clock…. so who really cares…. BFII i thought you said you were done and you where not going to be on this site again??
TP, remember your TRD broke down when new. so you can’t make fun of any other cars can you?
It’s like a Pot calling the kettle black!
YOUR ALL TORQUE AND NO TRACTION IN HERE.
Chopstar I’m with you. I wouldn’t ever consider buying a car with over 150,000km on the clock. And if I bought a car new, it would definitely be long gone by the time it had racked up even 200,000km. Falcons do have a great engine, but whether they last 400,000km or 1,000,000km is only relevant if you are a cabbie.
Yes BF Im all lies… could have fooled me, the guy who is supporting his claims with external sources is a liar but you, the guy who has provided nothing but heresay, is not… are you for real?
Addressing your last post:
a. Are your kidding or what, the U.S have far harsher environment… here in Australia there aernt great temperature fluctuations, in areas of the U.S where Camrys have made in excess of 500,000kms they are subjected to snow and then hot summers, cold weather in particular is a real test for cars. I was not talking about their roads, what the hell does that have to do with engine wear…
b. You somehow try to claim a FWD configuration is linked to a car not lasting as long… again are you kidding? FWD have less resistance so to speak on the drivetrain, which results in more power to the wheels… you could only say that less resistance means longer engine life. The Camrys going around with 500,000kms prove this fact.
c. A Falcon engine starts to work and wear at 250,000kms? Mate Im sure those people who have had their Falcon crap out on them in the 100s wouldnt agree with you… forgetting your claim is just ridiciulous, wear starts at 1km onwards for all engines.
d. Lol well I dont know if the Falcon is exported their, I will take your word for it… but is that somehow meant to mean something? The Camry is sold all over the world, trying to argue in terms of intertnaional exposure Falcon vs Camry is just a joke.
e. No Ford have indicated they do not intend to export the Orion.
f. IM STILL WAITING FOR SOME EVIDENCE ON THOSE ACCLERATION FIGURES, TRD IN 8 SECONDS AND AURION IN 10 SECONDS TO 100… IM REALLY INTERESTED TO SEE YOU PROVE THAT
TP you have a very weak personality you are unstable and you dont know what you are talking about.
TP you are psychologically challanged;)
Ford Falcon BF 190kW/383Nm is a better car than SV6 VE Commodore and a Toyota Aurion and TRD Aurion , its a better car than Mitsubishi Magna 380 and Honda Legend and a Nissan Maxima.
What ever i wrote is the fact.
You are fulfilled with propaganda from magazines.
I have driven all of those cars and i know what i am talking about.
You are stupid and slow enough not to acknowledge what i am saying.
I am even questioning your stance and i dont believe you actually live in Australia.
TP get your facts straight and go away.
Falcons are bulletproof.
AHAHAHAH
;)
if it can achieve 1000000ks
it will be fault free for at least 500000ks
just a key in the lock and drive off.
no need to spanners and screw drivers which you always need to carry with yourself when stuck with a front wheel drive car.
especially 4 cylinder/5 cylinder smaller cars;)
Ford Falcon is the car to drive in this country.
And your point about Camry being known all around the world is pointless.
We all know that.
And then i wonder why is GM rebadging a commodore to a lumina … and why arent they keeping the name “Holden Commodore” accross the world
ahahaah
see dude its all marketing and propaganda …
Same stands for Camry … RIP Corolla its my favorite car.
But anything greater than Corolla is complete shit.
Thats why if you want a big full sized rearwheel drive with traction and torque;) ahahaah
you drive a Falcon.
and if you want a real mans car … get the Fairlane G8 “sadly now discontinued”
but from various sources on line , the G8 type of a car “shape” at least will be made in USA and Orion will be exported to NORTH AMERICA.
yes exorted to NORTH AMERICA.
go google it , research and then go and root yourself in to the ass for being abusive towards me ahahaa “as if i really care”
LMAO AT YOU TP ….
ROTFLMFAO!!!! YOU’RE A CLOWN!
The wear stars 1st for all engines.
Actually NO.
;)
The wear does not start.
If there was any sort of friction the engine wouldnt be able to continue.
There is lubrication “OIL” … therefore the friction is nearly 100% eliminated.
;) because remember the piston rings are not touching the cylinder wall 100% … there is a micro think layer of oil which seperates it;)
therefore the friction only starts on most engine parts with in 10000km when the oil loses is viscocity and thickness/goodness.
It becomes less effective and the engine starts to wear.
As for the 4Litre OHC and DOHC
they are bullet proof ahahaha “i just took that word”
and they can last a very very long time before any serious wear starts in the combustion chamber , crank shaft , pistons , cams , valves and rearmain seal.
the 4Litre engine is a much much longer lasting engine than any Jap V6 or GM V6 engine , and it also outlasts Audi , Mercedes Benz ,BMW and other luxury high powered cars;)
this is no joke.
Its the engineering fact.
The 4Litre is a work horse.
It never stops.
Never;)
at the end of the day its redundant … you can work on the engine , thus when you work on it you can bump up the power and double it … and get a slight reduction in engine life.
but still beating crappy jap V6es.
;) try think of a 400kW/700Nm 4Litre DOHC DVCT engine;) running 500000kms with out missing a beat;)
I know a dude with Typhoon F6 made in 2004 , 5 speed manual with over 900Nm and 560kW at the flywheel …
he has over 150000ks on it … and he will never sell the car … it goes like new;)
and he races it every 2 weeks at calder park;)
TP .. get your facts straight.
Try to think of a 4Litre with stock Internal components from Factory running 400kW and still lasting 500000km +.
;)
Quote – TP said:
“Ross, as usual your taking this argument on a tangent, this is about BA and his claims of Aurion doing 100 in 10 seconds and TRD in 8 seconds, shove your nitpicking of previous posts where I embaressed your attacks on me up your a*rse.
No Toyata Paul, you as USUAL are trying to worm your way out of something that you f’d up about!!! YOU CLEARLY SAID “TOYOTAS ARE BULLETPROOF”. All I did was give you a defintion (three actually!) of what it says in the dictionary under bulletproof!! Like the little squirming pansy gimp you are, you try and turn this on me by saying I’m going on a tangent??? You’re the one who bloody said:
“As for bulletproof that was a interpretation thing, you people turned that into me suggesting they NEVER had problem…”
I WAS RESPONDING DIRECTLY TO THAT YOU DUMB IDIOT!!
So how about you go and shove that up your ar*e along with your male lovers co*k that has obviously been bludgeoned so far up your ar*e, thats its smashed into your brain and turned you into a bloody retard. :)
And by the way, the only person you embarrass is yourself with you incessant dribble and blind defence of all things Toyota. You really do have your head so freaking far up your ar*e you can’t tell whether it’s day or night!!
Cheers.
BFII you are a joke. I don’t think anyone on here takes you seriously.
how caresthat an engine lasts 500,000km + as i stated is that taxi owners are going to be the only people who care…. BFII you got stop go over and over the same stuff…. yes we have taken on board what you have said… but in the long run for most people they get rid of there cars at 100k and most people dont want a car with 200k… my 04 XR6 is on 65,000 and when it hits 100k its gone…. after this all engine start to play up…. i wouldnt and most people wouldnt own a car over 100-200k unless its a classic….
so you keep going on how this engine last so long and blah blah blah…. but most people dont care a car engine can get to 500,000 because they will not own it when it gets there…. most new car owns will buy a new car every 2-3 years or when a new model come out… and when you go on about EA,EB…. etc… who cares its the past.. and they were like they were a GTHO or anything…who cares…stop living in the past and start living in the future… yes the inline is a great engine… but it will gone in 2010 and that a fact….. then ford will be using V6 aswell, but its up there being one of the best engines as it was in the best engine award as well…. if you want to talk about the past talk about the cobra, GT,GTHO or mustang GT500 or something… not a basic falcon….
you can go on the a el had this much power and eb had this much torque… blah blah blah… they wouldnt any nore because the are OLD and they would of lost the power and torque over time….
you keep saying wake up to people…. i think mate you need to wake up from the past and live in the now!!!
No car is Bollet proof people… every care has it own issues….
and yes i totally agree with ya Jbot….BFII is a joke….
sorry… i am meant Bullet Proof….lol
HA HA Chopstar87! I think we know what you meant and I agree, neather a Toyota nor Ford is bullet proof.
BFmkII: I wouldn’t say an XT Falcon is faster than a TuRD, but an XR6T is.
They did not lose the power and torque over time
that was my point you’re dumb Chopstar87 ;) very dumb;)
the compression ratio is the same on a brand new say EB and the now old EB with over 600000ks on the clock
therefore the car has not lost its power and torque.
duh , thats why i am repeating myself all the time and trying to get it trough your thick heads
i think that i’ve allready justified my repetitions here.
;)
the reason why i am refering to old Falcons is because they are stronger cars better accleleration that any Holdens V6 and this crappy Aurion we are talkig about here
The blogs headline is about XR8 ORION internir , not some freaking AURION the topic originally started by TP.
;)
Ford Falcon “only the Falcon i am talking about has the longest domestic / mass production lasting engine from all other car manufactuters on earth;)
so shut up you all;)
ps: my SR 5.4Litre SOHC 5 speed beats the Aurion TRD and it disappears behind me for at least 5-10 car lenghts on the highway or in small streets/roads.
cheers
The Cyclone “Duratec” V6 wont be a match for Torque against the I6
I6 engine technology is superior to F6 and V6 engine technologies.
The stock BA 182 makes 360Nm at just 1500rpm dude! wake up
it makes 320+ Nm at just 1000rpm.
The Duratec could make say “400Nm” peak … but at 4500rpm …
yet might have over 80% accross the rpm range.
It will never match the driveability of a stock XT/XR6 4Litre engine.
;)
you people have no idea what i am on about , how can i be a joke.
How can you compare a 200kW Aurion that doesnt even make 200Nm at 1500rpm with the I6 4Litre powered car.
you people are nutts!!!!! seriously!!!
;)
the Ford cyclone engine “Duratec” is not technologically advanced , in fact it existed before we invented our DOHC engine head to replace the OHC on the 4Litre block.
Therefore we are goina back wards and the simple Commodore V6 will beat a stock ORION with V6.
I have to admit that.
And even if the 4Litre goes away in 2010 there will still be plenty of parts
the the XR6 Turbo teams and clubs allready exist and support the turbocharged I6 engine.
;)
The Twin Turbo 3.7Litre Aurion Typhoon will only make 542Nm and only 324kW , yet at very high reves.
Meaning that the stock 270/550Nm Typhoon will beat it 0-100km/h …. yet might lose top speed wise by 5 or 10km/h.
and what is 5 or 10km/h???? its NOTHING.
low down , midrange torque counts … thats what matters for stock ROAD cars.
;)
Ford INLINE SIX … “REPEATING AGAIN” is the best Australian created engine ever.
;)
If you want the Orion after 2010 , get the V8 … ;)
and again repeating.
THE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS ARE SLOW;) regardless of their power/technology!
PUSHING IS BETTER THAN PULLING;) get your physics straight.
;) Kinetic energy … dudes wake up!
Good for you BFII. Pity no one believes you about smashing a TRD Aurion. You go enjoy driving your ex-Taxi SR with 1,000,000km on the clock, the rest of us will take something a bit newer thanks.
Kinetic energy??? Whatever mate. Oh and a car with 50kW more but 8Nm less will lose??? Your making less sense than you did in the beginning!!
Can anybody pleadse tell me what article was Brock 05 on last? I forget!
Ha! Jbot i think ur full of sh!t!
lol…..
hey BFII…you ever thought that no one cares what you think???
I6…. better then a F6…. you are the idiot… they are the same engine but tune differently….the F6 just has better and higher quality parts… is it can handle the power and the torque,,, its a better platform to start from then just a Base I6…
every thing ages and slows down…just like ya self…. lol…
i think BFII goes on how good the I6 is and how good the 5.4 litre 3v engine is that all he can afford or something…may be he cant afford a FPV… even thou he like 37 or something….
BFII maybe you should take ur pills and have a nap champ…. lol….
Lauren or is the BFII… some person i would think… just look at earlier comments… this lauren left this message under BFII name… you are getting slow in ur old age…lol
Dude seriously you have no idea what you’re on about.
You dont even understand 50% of how a car operates and you have no idea what the power means in a car and what the torque means in a car.
yet alone to understand those two things in other mechanical things in nature and in technology ranging from a toaster to a jet plane.
Jbot … you make no sense … you’re a laick person , go away.
;)
241kW/400Nm frontwheel drive car can not beat a 190kW/383Nm rear-wheel drive car.
give the BA/BF a powerchip with a different EEPROM tune up enable the power to 210kW/420Nm and it will eat the TRD with ease.
and ps: you’re being miserable by saying that my SR is a ex taxi car.
you idiot , its still brand new , bought new in 2003.
it doesnt even have 1000000ks on it. runs like brand new.
so stop acting as if you’re winning … you have no character loser;)
duh at you!
F6 literally means FLAT 6
V6 literally means V configuration of 6 cylinders in 2 engine banks
I6 litereally means Inline 6 cylinders.
you have no clue Chopstar87
all of you put together here have no idea , your acronyms are poor , you all lack anologies , clearly showing that none of ya are educated.
ill-educated scum;)
LMAO!!!
F6 = F6 , the Tyhoon , only a dumb Chopstar87 would think that.
lack of reading and research i guess… little shit head whos reving up shitty cars …
just because you cant afford the Turbo XR6 you got the stock XR6
didnt you know that stock Future beats it in a straight line;) its 65kg ligher;) no body kit and useless rearspoiler you dumb ass!!!
ahaha you are a laugh sad case!
one thing with RWD and FWD… yes there power is there at the fly wheel…. but there some power lost between the Rear wheels… remeber reading some where that say a SS has 270 at Fly wheel but only had 240-250at the rear wheels so there is power lost there and with FWD there is also power lost to the wheel but not as much is lost….
this is why a Mid engine car is great… one the wieght of the vehicle is more centred…. and the power go straight to the wheels…..
dude the SS has 270kW at the flywheel at the engine.
once it goes trough its 6 speed manual or auto … it loses 40-50kW.
energy is lost but the torque remains at the flywheel and the wheels.
so it has 220kW at the rearwheels and 530Nm of torque.
thats only when you use recommended RON98 petrol.
when you use regular … the power drops down from 270 to about 248kW according to octane vs engine displacement compression ration calculations.
so its 248kW and 492Nm instead of full 270/530 on RON98 Vortex petrol.
The stock BA/BF have 150kW at the rearwheels , but its PUSHING… and NOT PULLING like Aurion.
with only a flash tune i can get the power to 260-270kW at the flywheel and rearwheel power can get to 220kW easy.
with extractors 4 in to 1 , i can get 250rwkw, add the cold air intake nozzle and you get 285rwkw for the stock mechanically unaltered 5.4Litre 3V SOHC.
;) thats 320+ flywheel kw for the SR Falcon ;)
Nice work with the whole pretending to be “Lauren” BFII. Almost had me fooled. And I’m sure 100% of people on here (except you and Lauren of course. lol) would say I make much more sense than yourself…
at the end of the day tha TAXABLE HORSE POWER of a stock EF/EL/AU-AUIII Falcon is 31Hp vs Aurion TRD only 25.
That means if you get an old fashined CAR “horse carraige” and then tie up 31 horses to it.
The Falcon EF to AUIII the 4Litre on the stock 4 speed auto with final drive 3.08 ratio , has 31Hp.
it will pull more than Aurion TRD.
;) i have totally smashed all of you right now!
Falcon wins by 6Hp ;) …
and for the BA/BF … i am not sure , but its probably 32 taxable Hp;)
For the Barra220/230 and Boss260/290/302 , its probably 37 or 38 Taxable Hp;)
as i am only 20 i am not willing to spend my hard earned money on bloodly insurance which would be 3000-4000 a year… thats all…. i am not stupid…. and not poor
Why did i get over an XR6 even thou it more expansive then the base model??? well… one it more comfy in side…looks better in side… looks better out side… drives smoother, yes i have driven both cars…. i just felt poor in the base model when i test drove it… to plain.. i see the XR6 as a better package of a car because i do like driving in a nice comfy enviro then a crapy a base car… as a whole its a better car then the base model… and also it would come down to it… its all about the driver because there is not much differance between cars performance wise
you go on and on about torque and power….. but it not all about that… its also about Aero dymanics, wieght, drive line,etc etc…. for Expamle my mate 2004 WRX… with intake and full exhaust eats a BF XR8 for breakfast… even thou it has only about 190-200Kw and about 400nm but it can beat a 260Kw 500nm v8…. and the thing can hit 255Km….
Jbot get your math straight, when you get your math and your facts straight , then come back here and comment.
Front wheel driven vehicles , from a fork lift to a freaking RC racing toy car…
will never be stronger , faster , stronger at “pulling” or in other words at moving MASS , they will never be stronger than the REARWHEEL DRIVEN VEHICLES
so get over it!!!!!
So the TRD Aurion only has 25Hp? Riiiiiight. Man, you really smashed me with the whole horse carriage thing. I am so embarrased that I could be proved wrong like that.
Idiot.
the insurance is not $4000 a year , unless its full comprehensive with rating 6.
;)
and for your inforamtion the DRAG COFFICIENT of a typical BA is better than Aurion .
and for your information
the stocK XR6 BOSS260 is tuned to be a family car.
stock tune , ignition timing , throttle responce etc etc
give it a powerchip gold 98 or custom tune it … enable it to 320kW/600Nm …
and it will hit 320km/h.
;)
You’re joking right?
dont start mate with insurance mate… why… cause thats what i do for a living champ…
to insure a BRAND NEW XR6 Turbo for a male at the age of 20… the word is BRAND NEW…why.. the insurance is always higher for a new car because if it gets written off the insurance company is up for a whole new car….
I’d like to see a stock Aurion and the TRD.
with a full sized trailer , 5 full sized people in the car, luggage in the boot.
And then we’ll see what car does a better job ;)
Falcon of course;)
try overtaking in a front wheel driven car with the full load … and see how dangerous it is;)
you’re all dumb;) i am accusing you of being naive and dumb;)
hahahaa
okay Chopstar87 “fag”
but … thats not the point … new or second hand.
again you are stupid … it can be just 10 min out of the dealer yard … brand new and then re-sold as second hand.
get a life , where is your logic…
again if you do work in insurance thats your problem.
i wont go in to that.
the logic is … and the argument is.
BRAND NEW meaning bought on the spot in the dealer yard.
the vehicle can be physically BRAND new … but technically RE-SOLD 10 min latter and considered as SECOND HAND
you are all a ripp off! ;) i spit on you all ;) some abuse ay???/
ahahaaha
wtf? wat do u mean hun? BFII? must me the same timing?
xxx
Lauren
yes but if you are the second owner of a vehicle… the vehicle replacment policy on the insurance doesnt apply… D*ck head…. dont start with insurance with me mate because i will kill regarding insurance like the doctor should of done when u were born….
look in your insurance PDS under the vehicle replacement when the vehicle is 2yrs r younger… for the vehicle repalcement for a new car if the vehicle is written off from when it was purchased from dealer and you are the first owner of the vehicle, so if the vehicle is second hand… not covered for vehicle replacement this is why new car policy are more expensive….
No…because when people say that… i will make a XS apply or make you claim go REALLY REALLY slow… lol
Still pretending to be Lauren, BFII… lol
Duck, type ‘Latest 2008 Falcon Orion spy shots’ at the top to find him.
Did I miss read something or does BFmkII think the F6 Typhoon is a flat 6?
…If so you are really dumb. The F6 is an I6.
BFII thinks the FPV F6 has a flat 6 motor – NO, IT’S AN INLINE 6!!!!
WTF? :shock:
How can a base model Falcon beat a TRD? He never said the source.
WTF? :shock:
If the FPV had Flat six, it would be like a SUBARU.
WTF? :shock:
WTF? sorry BFII
wasnt meant towards you dude! it was aimed at Chopstar87
Sorry!!!!!!!!
SHAME ON YOU OZ!!!
WHAT EVER I WROTE IS THE FACT
YOU CAN GO AND TELL THAT TO SOMEONE ELSE!
F6 means FLAT SIX
repeating again
usually used in Subaru and Porsche.
;) F6 is also a name of an I6 powered Ford Typhoon.
I6 engine in the “Typhoon F6″
get it??? stop being rude;) and a liar;) ahahaaha
getting down to your level am i? its good to be abusive;)
i am not naive either all these posts are being monitored and watched;)
ciao
Chopstar87 insurance companies are a ripp off….
they never cover the honest people whom need their help;)
Hey i know that F6 is a I6…. i thought that BFII was saying F6(typhoon F6 not Flat six aka a Boxer engine) engine and I6 was different… idoit… read everything before you comment Oz….
What was Flat 6 got to do with an F6 anyway? Who brought it up?
BFII you stole my name.
I did not write…
“WTF?”
“sorry BFII wasnt meant towards you dude!”
“it was aimed at Chopstar87 Sorry!!!!!!!!”
I can tell it was you because you left a line between each sentance.
OZ i dont know what you are talking about , i told you to get the chill pill idiot;)
and you Chopstar87 you said that i said that the Typhoon had the Flat 6 by misundersanding the F6 acronym because you’re ill-educated ahahaha;)
i am laughing at you
and i tried to explain it all to you.
At the end of the day i’d rather find myself sitting and driving a stock XR6 BF with 6 speed ZF or 6 speed manual rather than in TRD Aurion.
but i allready have something a lot better than XR6 , my SR Falcon V8, sure it doesnt have leather seats or the full body kit , but it has 472Nm vs 383Nm , so the strong potent acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gears mean a lot to me personally;)
;)
I6 engine technology “repeating again” is a lot smoother , better , more torque , more effecienty than naturally unballanced V6 engines … and also unbalanced Flat 6 “F6″ engines;)
;) V8 are balanced since there are 4 cylinders on each side “each engine bank”
V2 , V4 , V8 , V16 are very balanced engines;) …
V6 , V10 , V12 , are unbalanced;)
Calder park 2 days ago.
My SR BA 2003 5 speed manual 5.4Litre SOHC Barra220
220kW@4750rpm
472Nm 3250-4000rpm
0-100km/h in either 6.0 – 6.5s depending on my shifting speed , my worst time ever was just under 7 seconds.
400m run Calder park on the saturday i gained 14.5s flat vs GENIII SS VX Commodore 14.99s.
;)
Ford all the way;)
and repeating again and again
4Litre Falcon XT BA or BF is better than a 3.5Litre Aurion AT-X.
And i would never pay $40000+ for the sportivo zr6 model, its even heavier.
;)
And also.
TRY fitting the 3.5Litre 330Nm/200kW engine to a Fords 4 speed auto with the final drive of either 3.23 or 3.08
and the 3.5Litre powerplant would do 11 or 12 seconds 0-100km./h.
Get the stock BA XT and just change the final diff ratio from 3.23 to 3.91 or 4.11
and you get an easy flat 6 seconds 0-100km/h
but will suffer in high way cruising engine speed of 2500rpm in 4th at 100km/h.
there you go .. its all in the gearing if you say that Aurion is quicker than baseline XT.
ahaha;)
yet again the TORQUE saves the 4litre engine;)
GRANTED BY THE NATURALLY OCCURING TORQUE!
i dont know what you people are on about
you’re clearly beaing beaten word for word by that BF mkII.
i dont support your ideas people either,you make no logical sense,thats as far as i am concerned
what a boring blog anyways
Tony
a ‘flat’ engine such as the boxer engines of the past as per porsche, subaru and VW have nothing to do with the F6. A ‘flat’ engine has cylinders that are horizontal as against the normal vertical. Most notable the old vw’s which have 2 on one side and 2 on the other (similar to a V configuration). Then you have the ‘slant’ configuration such as the old ‘slant 6′ valiant 225 engine
Which brings me to the F6. Any inference that the ‘F’ means Flat is ridiculous.. The Ford engine is of the ‘Inline’ or ‘Straight’ type.
In Wheels mag\’s showroom, there\’s an error, it has the F6 as a Flat 6.
Am I the 800th post?
How did engine configurations get into this topic in the first place?
Oz.,
Yes you are!
Congratulations!
Everybody keep talking crap and take it to 1000 posts!
BF11,
mate i absolutely love your passion, i really do but……
im just curious as to how “this dude you know” has a typhoon with a 5sp manual when they were only released with the 6sp manual?
the ’04 mods didnt even have an auto option, as they were still working on an auto box that would handle the power
This is now the topic with the most comments
1.Ford Falcon Orion Interior And GT Exposed(This one) 804 comments
2.FPV Cobra Falcon Comfirmed – 681 comments
3.New 2008 Ford Falcon Orion Computer Generated Images – 661 comments
Is it Alborz’s dream to have an Article of his site with more than 1000 comments? I sure hope so!
you just keep countin them OZ ha ha ha ha ha ha
Andrew.M
sorry about that.
It was a typo , but also a thought of a very 1st model with a 5speed manual which had clutch problems and synchro problems “people say” …
6 speed gearbox can handle a lot more torque accross each speed from 1 to 6 and has a double synchro from 1st to 3rd i think.
sorry i got it mixed up with the 5 speed , but i think that it could also be the keyboard typo and i also noticed that the Typhoon F6 in GT4 game has a 5 speed transmission.
cheers.
It wasn’t actually a synchro problem with the new 6 speed manual transmission in the Typhoon…
The problem was that there was a $1 clip that was used to retain the intermediate clutch plate that was failing due to a harmonic that is unique to the I6 engine.
The result of the clip failing was clutch drag, thus causing difficult gear selection under some conditions.
Thanks Ross.
I heard dozens of thinks why and why.
But the 1$ clip makes sense… at the end of the day the actual 6 speed manual was not specifically designed for the I6 engine at all … it was literally bolted , just the part of the gear box where the flywheel is “the housing” was designed to it fits on the engine.
its the same gearbox used on VZ Commodore/VE , with different gear rations.
on the outside she looks the same apart from the bit where it joins the engine.
BFII here again … couldnt post a comment….
By the way here is a photo of a SLANT … angled engine which still remains INLINE eg: INLINE 6 or 4.
but its angled…
here is the example of Honda S2000 , some mercedes models have the same thing too , Audi , BMW and of course the old Valiant Inline 6 “SLANT 6″
angled at either 60 – 75 or 80 degrees “i think”
they look like a V8 with the 2nd engine bank missing…
;) i consider them as retarded engines LOL … i stick with V8 … try think of a 7Litre Corvette with 3.5Litres per slant … or per bank;)
hehe .. or the 8.2Litre Corvette ;)
It wasnt a typo… just another example of BF’s lies. Aurion does the 100 in 10 seconds in his world.
BF11
ross has just given you the correct story of the problem with the typhoon clutch upon its release.
i also believe the 6speeder has a aynchro in reverse.
i thought it was a different box to the commy 6sp.
the commy 6sp was pretty much the 5sp with another gear slapped on. i dont think they changed to lower ratios too much but i may stand corrected
TP you are a clown , i have an old keyboard fag;) your arguments are not supported here.
how can you just slap on the word “lie”
when the 200kW Aurion is actually doing 9 and sometimes 10 seconds 0-100km/h. You’re a fake go away.
The typical 6 speed manual transmission found on a VZ and VZII SS Commodores is different to the previous T5 like transmissions from both Ford and Holden.
The 6 speed gearbox found on all MkII Falcon X8s and BFs and Typhoons and GTs is identical to the VZ and VZII and HSV models of commodores also VE Commodores.
its 100% identical.
;) the only difference is BELL like shape that goes on to the engine where the clutch system meets the flywheel.
the gears were changed to a much closer ratios on Ford.
while the VZ to VZII have a taller 5th and 6th gear than Fords MkII XR8 to GT and Typhoon.
;)
The Ford has also changed the diff ratios from 3.23 to 3.46 for MkII and kept that till BF/BFII manual Falcons.
I am happy with LSD and control blade IRS 3.23 ratio on my SR V8 ;) sweet car … though it has the older T5 gearbox.
I see no reasons to upgrade it because the engine is untouched.
And speaking of the Mr TP or who ever that is Total p#of or what?
if you were to vertically put the Aurion 200kW engine in the Falcon and attach it to its 4 speed gearbox
the car would do 12seconds 0-100 due to its poor torque and wouldnt be able to push the 1st gear properly , it would literally stall
TP , get your facts straignt you ill-educated little person;)
bboooooooo liar!
TP go away we know that in real life that any Ford Falcon with an injected I6 engine is a more alter vehicle to drive on the road…
as i mentioned before
try loading up the Aurion with trailer , luggage and 5 full sized people
take it for a trip Sydney – Brisbane and we’ll see who comes 1st a commodore , magna , camry or a Falcon;)
Falcon of course
those 4Litre varitants and the 5Litre/5.4Litre variants can be loaded with stuff , luggage and people
and still do 0-100km/h in 6.5-7 seconds flat pretty much done in the 1st gear ahahaaha;)
Falcon all the way! to the God with it!
;)
and another question to miserable TP …
why arent Ford Crown Victoria cars sold everywhere around the world? and the Camry is?
duh idiot!
why arent the Ford Falcons which are pretty much like Crown Victoria sold around the world?
WHY?
here is why:
Because a Ford Falcon is NATIVE to Australia
Because a Ford Crown Victoria is a NATIVE car to North and South America!
dude get your facts straight
they could have renamed CAMRY to something else , just like they did Toyota Lexen , in fact it was a VN-VS Commodore;)
just like they did to Commodore “renamed it to Lumina” or Omega…
in fact the Commodore was initially designed to be a “LUMINA” and OMEGA back in UK
but renamed here to a Commodore .. to trick the consumer in to buying another GM division product such as a Holden.
;)
the only true Holden for me is Torana and Kingstwood , yet they are Chevrolet too;)
while Ford is Ford everywhere , at least they dont change their name.
And now that Ford owns Volvo , Jaguar and Mazda , we are gona have a bright future.
;) some say the new JAG 5Litre “Ford 5Litre” engine will be standard accross all base models for ORION series II in 2010 and supercharged for GTHO , cant wait.
ps: the Falcon used to be sold in other countries. like Argentina and North America
but it all lasted during the 60s.
and guess what?
since 1960 it actually became largely Australian design … with some mechanicals from USA , during 70s it totally became Australian ;) with no hybrid parts borrowed from anywhere else as far as the I6 250ci was concerned and 3.9 and 4Litre was concerned and even the 302 and 351ci were 100% Aussie.
and for Windsdor 5Litre 302 engine ,it was borrowed from Ford explorer and from some mustangs in late 80s and early 90s.
the engine wasnt very good.
replaced by specifically modified and re-engineered Mustang Cobra 5.4Litre cast iron block to create the BOSS260/290/302 engines
and Barra220/230 3V variant which was 1st to be used here on our FALCON.
since it was a great engine , unbreakable and reliable
there were not many sales in parts for those engines , so the company decided to close the factory in Canada and kill the 5.4Litre Barra / Triton engine used later in Ford F-150 /250 trucks an F-150 Lighting.
;)
the best and the most reliable Ford engine ever created in history of Ford motor company is a Barra 5.4Litre 3V head engine.
;)
they are a work horse;)
whats next TP are you gona claim that the TRD can beat the 1960s and 1970s GT 351ci Falcon ??? you’d be mad!
If you want the car to last you as long as the Rolls Royce with its 6.75Litre V8.
get the Falcon BA-BFXT/SR/FAIRMONT/FAIRMONT GHIA or the SLX UTE
with the 5.4Litre SOHC and you’ll reach 2million ks in it;)
or if you want a massive vehicle , get a 2nd hand 2001-2005 F-150 or F-250 with 5.4Litre Barra “TRITON” engine
;) or the power stroke 7.3Litre diesel and that will last you for 50-60 years.
you wont have to worry about getting another car or wasting a CENT in fixing anything;) for years and years.
;)
BFII Says:
“some say the new JAG 5Litre “Ford 5Litre” engine will be standard accross all base models for ORION series II in 2010 and supercharged for GTHO , cant wait.”
You may need to recheck your sources
I don’t like the idea of a 5.OL V8. What happend to the Hurricane 6.2L where you can shut off 4 cylinders like the modern Hemi V8s?
BFII, I will take back my stupid comments aimed at you, as we share the same passion for cars. But I have to point out Ford have sold Land Rover and Jaguar.
TP, what are you trying to do here? I’m not trying to be mean to you but why don’t you have a look at au. toyotaownersclub.com?
Oz Im going to be mean shove that up your ar*se… this BF idiot is one great reason why I am here, to keep the idiots honesty… if it wasnt for peoeple like myself and Dingo then readers would actually believe the drivel like the Aurion doing 100 in 10 or TRD in 8. How about you attack the real idiot? No, I wouldnt expect that from somoene with their head so far up their ar*se when it comes to Ford.
TP,
well why dont you dress up in a white shirt and tie and buy yourself a bike.
then you could go around knocking on doors handing out pamphlets, disturbing peoples weekend mornings all in the name of “spreading the word”
BFII is now talking 2 million kms for the Falcon! WTF is wrong with you??? Please join the forum and stop spamming these pages with your filth.
I said the 5.4Litre TRITON engine you fag;)
the Barra engine with a 3V engine head with the 5408cc block which is identical to the Boss260 for internals and materials used.
speaking of the 2Million Ks is the 7.3Litre diesel POWERSTROKE truck engine in F-350 trucks dude;)
And speaking of the Jaguar 5Litre engine i made a mistake there … i was probably stuck in time … Jag/Volvo/Mazda … hmm okay now
speaking of a HEMI engine , its no match for the TRITON/BARRA and BOSS engines.
at the end of the day BOSS and BARRA are CAM DRIVEN … SOCH and DOHC … not pushrod crap!
;)
also … i didnt mean FALCON as Falcon … i meant the ENGINE in the car.
the stock XT with 5.4Litre 3V will outlast the 4V 5.4Litre brother.
Because the 5.4L 3V head is different , there are major design differences , 3 large valves with one massive outlet valve … stiffer materials , made for low down torque and reliability.
;) therefore they can do over 1000000ks … and the 7.3Litre power stroke can do 2000000ks in F250 and 350 trucks.
;) this is the fact …
the reason they killed the Barra220/230 was not because it was poluting or poor.
its because none of the spare parts were sold after it was indtroduced in the Falcon
try to imagine all those Fairmont Ghias out there and Fairlanes G220s and G8s with Barra engine in it
NEVER needing any parts to be raplced?
since they were introduced there are cars with that engine from 2003 and still running like new in 2008.
with ZERO parts to be changed or fixed;)
so the Factory was closed because once the Barra/Triton engine was used in the Falcon CHASIS application it lasted for ever.;)
I dont think BF is as dumb as he portrays, I suspect it may be a previous posters re-incarnation… no-one is this thick.
I have seen many Fairlane Ghias and G220s with their oil never changed………… and they are 5 years old now … and they still go like new.
My point is.
the Barra is the longest lasting V8 ever created by Ford Motor Company;)
even the LS2 with 6.2Litres wont be a match in terms of reliability.
and if the Ford ever brings the 6LITRE version of the BOSS engine architecture with 4V , then that would be the 7Litre LS7 eater;)
TP go and run along!
TP i’ve never heard anybodu online in 17 years to be as thick and narrow minded as you;)
TP … i suggest you re-do your high school education or complete a degree in physics and then come to talk to me;)
TP= TOTALLY PISSED
Sorry BF,you’re not dumb,… it slipped out buddy!
But i still admit… Falcon is a better car than Aurion!
BFII – i’m convinced, but are saying there has NEVER been a engine failure of whatever engine you’re commenting on? r.e. post at 9.20pm.
I’ve never had an I6 fail me (in 17 years), but that doesn’t mean it never happens.
Australia is placed on the continent with some interesting and harsh weather, weather which changed all the time, weather hotter and more dangerous than in USA, if you think about the outback and the bush, the roads in our desert that strech for 100s and 1000s of ks.
Ford has re-created the I6 engine , chucked on the CAMS and injection in the 1st 3.9Litre MPFI EAII Falcon 1990 onwards.
Those engines are still running with out missing the beat. And are designed for long trips, designed for acceleration while they are moving.
Designed to never let you down.
What i really meant above is that
All the Ford Falcon BA cars from the SR , Fairmont , Fairlane models , to Fairmont GHIA and Utility vehicles which are fitted with the 5.4Litre engine option the 3Valve SOHC Barra engine.
What i wanted to say is that , there are Falcon BAs out there with that engine , and they have NEVER ever had any mechanical issues whats so ever till this day.
Becuase when the truck engine meets the car which is 1000-3000kg lighter, wonders happen.
They are low reving , high torque engines , with good stroke cycle , smoother power delivery , they are as quiet as a dove , totally user friendly … torque on TAP when ever you need it.
Try imagining yourself in an Aurion TRD or stock one going up the hill … sure it will do it OKAY
but just try imaginaing yourself in the 5.4Litre SOHC up the hill
with your accelerator pressed down by just 1.5cm just as it wason the flat survace
and once the inclane comes , you dont need to press your accelerator pedal down more for more fuel and power.
the V8 just keeps on pulling at 60km/h or more up the hill easy 30-40 degrees incline , and it doest even better than XR8 or GT …. its all in the stroke/bore of the engine finished off with the 3V head vs 4V head designed for revving!
;)
I’ve seen a Fairlane Ghia LTD made in 2003 , the car has over 150000 on it , and the last time the oil was changed was in 2006.
Or the other day this other dude has 7 kids , and his G220 wasnt washed since it was bought new , in the car there is rubish and dust 2cm thick … fast food packaging everywhere , cigarette butts … engine has spider web on it … last time oil changed was 45000km ago … and the gearbox oil? it wasnt changed since 2004.
and the car runs just like new , it flies , it accelerates as if it was my car.
The car still goes, no problems , it flies and accelerates like new.
There is ZERO probems with the 3V 5.4Litre engine in all BAs and BFs.
unless the car was involved in an accident in front end collission “and then” fixed by insurance company with new parts.
;)
but as far as private use goes , government use goes.
There are more Fairlanes than Statemens and Caprices.
;)
Either Barra220 spec or 230spec engines , they are 100% identical.
One extra knock sensor on the Barra230 , though that doesnt really matter.
Its all in the exhaust of the Barra230 vs 220.
because the Barra220 pretty much has the same exhaust as the 4Litre Barra XT.
So but only giving it extractors it gains 50kW or more with out touching the ECU processors firmware and with out even touching the Intake mainfold and the air intake system.
As i said before , its a restricted untapped engine , just like its brother the 4Litre.
;)
and again i am repeating myself … why are people trying to compare a front wheel drive car with similar power to a rearwheel drive car which has loads more torque than that front wheel drive car?
i mean thats just crazy!
add the numbers:
200+330=530 of total value of the Aurion V6
190 + 383 = 573 of total value of the Falcon BF I6
whats the point arguing.
or how about Typhoon F6
550 + 270 = 820
and TRD Aurion 241+400 = 641 plus its a front wheel drive which is the inferior way to give movement to the car “object” by pulling it … its better to push “i am repeating again”
i mean come on;)
ps: my 5.4Litre had ZERO mechanical problems since 2003.
all i had to do was change the front and rear disk brakes in 2007.
and that was the only mechanical thing that wore out.
Everything else is preserved in 2003. The car is like new.
100% like new.
And the clutch is still all thumbs up;)
BFII
New car buyers are mad , just get a 2nd hand V8 powered BA Fairmont Ghia or a Fairlane …
and you’ll see what you get for your money.
The car that will last 10-20 years repair free.
you will forget about ever going to the service as far as the enigne goes.
sure you’ll do normal maintenance , brake pads , oil , oil filter , sparks , petrol filter , air filter.
but as far as the engine and the 4 speed auto go ,,, and the radiator , alternator , fuel and oil/water pumps…. those things do last a very very very long time on the 4Litre and 5.4Litre 3V V8 engine;)
so ……
why waste $30000-35000 on new with ZERO luxury and some new flashy vehicle stability control software???
get the real car that will never break down;) and drive safe , always drive 50 in the 60km/h zone, take care of your eating and your health
and ps: the Fords V8s are more economical than I6 when driven at the speed limit;)
LMAO!
and you’ll be safe for 100 years.
by just installing the K&N filter on the BA/BF XT 4L you can get 11-12kW more out of the engine, and 25-30Nm more.
As BFII once mentioned
“an engine with a restrictive air filter is like a person breathing through a straw”
how does 210kW/400Nm BF XT sound like , perhaps ECU tuned , K&N fitted and extractor fitted BF XT sound like?
240-250kW/450Nm at the flywheel. “PROVEN” on most such set ups wity out altering the engine mechanically totally tapping in to it, all from the N/A engine.
i think the BFII knows what hes on about who ever he/she might be.
Sam.Robinson
BF11,
just another question mate,
what model falcon/fairlane/fairmont do you own? i know you have prob said it but im just confused after you talking about your mates fairlanes aswell.
so what model do you have?
BF you are a class 1 idiot…. Aurion does 0-100 in 10 seconds according to your logic, not even bogans are dumb enough to think that.
BFII can you give us the link of you source about the base model Falcon being faster than the Aurion? ;)
TP,
a lot of what BF11 says is correct though.
although to be fair i dont agree the falcon does the aurion by 2.5secs 0-100
for my money they are the same. its what most if not every test has concluded
Sorry AndrewM alot of what he says isnt correct…. power figures is about the only thing which isnt a sign of any knowledge, what he does do is make some absolutely ridiculous statements… TRD to 100 in 8… Aurion to 100 in 10… Falcons lasting 2 million kms….
TP,
mate the only thing you are really disputing is the 0-100 times.
the rest you know nothing about.
i too have seen and heard of plenty of falcon I6′s hitting the 1 million mark. also it is true that there is lots of potential with in the I6.
i think his comment regarding 2 million K’s is in reference to the F truck motor not the falcon (just for the record)
so as far as the untapped performance in the I6, (which is most of what he has been harping on about) then yes most of that is correct
Ford Ford Ford as usual you talk sh*t AndrewM… I made a summary of ridiculous claims this idiot made way back up top in addition to these 0-100 times. The fact he thinks a 200kw vehicle will do the 100 in 10 seconds compared to a 190kw vehicle in 7 seconds says enough about the person… completely unintellgient. Mind you Im not the only poster who has had a go at him. But I wouldnt expect you to understand this, as usual the cavalry comes in to defend a Ford fairy.
ok so tell me what it is APART from the 0-100 related times.
im not saying i agree with the 10 secs for Aurion either.
DONT YOU READ!!!!!!!!!??????????
most of your problems are with 0-100 times.
i agree that the I6 will do 1 million k’s too so that isnt incorrect
Paul, Ford fairys can talk here because it’s a Ford ARTICLE!!!…Don’t like it then, why do you bother?
TP………….is it necessary to call us that?
Its a car……….who cares at the end of the day! 0-100 pfttttt,unless its in the 5 s no one is impressed!
I can give Toyota credit where credit is due what about you with Ford and LPG…. come on!
…..And watch the vulgar too!!!
Oz……….hes not like Dingo……….that’s left for good!
TP maybe frustrating at times but never vulgar!
I’d have to disagree with you BM, TP has been rude and sworn at me in a few of his posts.
Cheers.
yo BFII here;)
mine is the 2003 SR Falcon 5 speed manual Barra220 V8 5.4Litre. same engine found in G220 , Fairlane Ghia , LTD and Fairmont Ghia 2002 to late 2004 for MkII models, before the BF/BFII spec option that had a differnet exhaust and extra knock sensor.
I have driven Aurion 200kW and it does no less than 9 or 10 seconds , foot to the floor , OFF the traffic lights, holding the food down for more than 10 seconds, the car reached only just about 100km/h , did it a dozen times , doesnt get any quicker.
sorry thats just reality.
while the TRD 241kW is 2 seconds quicker “in real life”
as i mentioned 10x its the frontwheel drive car.
TP you’re a person who has no idea ,you’re brainwashed with magazines , internet lies and propaganda.
i have driven the cars;)
the cars can never match their 0-100km/h times , it all varies to a 100th of a second , or half a second or a full second.
All i know is that the stock Ba182 has better overtaking ability and acceleration than either Aurions;)
I did not say that the Falcon can do 2Million ks…
i mentioned the Powerstroke 7.3Litre diesel engine used in Ford F-350-550 and 650 trucks.
TP stop being rude and illiterate;)
check your facts.
;) who needs sources? i am the source;) and many other people;)
165kW VN Calais 5Litre with 2500000ks on clock beats a 200kW Aurion , its a shame! i wonder where did the 35kW difference go?
energy disappeared and disipated in to the front wheel drive complex mechanism with two shafts and the coupling system to drove front wheels DUH!!!!!
;)
and the untapped power in the I6 … is all the fact;)
the full mechanical potential of either OHC 8Valve EB to ED , EF-EL , AU to AUIII BA to BF DOHC engines is 230-250kW and close to about 460Nm.
thats the full mechanical DESIGN potential power of the stock Base line Barra engine 4Litre 3984 CC 247CI engine;)
if you didnt know;)
but as i said and i will say it again , they are DE-TUNED
FINE TUNED , DE-TUNED to make way for the XR6 Turbo which also is de-tuned , the XR8 which also is de-tuned.
the XR8 BOSS260 alone makes 650Nm and 350kW ;)
but as i told you people , they are RESTRICTED;) MUTED
AS IF THEY ARE BREATHING TROUGH THE STRAW!!! GET IT????
;)
therefore get your facts straight;)
the longest lasting V8 ever created is the TRITON or the 5.4Litre single overhead cam from Ford made and designed in Canada speficically for Australian applications in the Falcon BA.
it was afterwards used in F-150 and F-150 lighting truck which is also de-tuned to 278kW/610Nm to add even longer life … say another 10 years to the engine.
;)
think of it this way … you buy a Falcon once , and you own it for life;)
Its like a Rolls Royce Silver Spur when it comes to mechanical life …
the engine will just go and go … and never stop.
;) excluding the 5Litre and 5.6Litre stroked TickFord windsdor;)
;) i wonder why is my manual SR 5 speed as quick as the XR8 ??? hmm … there must be a lot of marketing propaganda out there????
LMAO!!!
Andrew M thanks man;)
WTF BM?? :mrgreen: “Ford Ford Ford as usual you talk sh*t AndrewM” – that’s not vulgar to you?
You not alone Ross, Paul also called me a “little F*cker”.
Come on BFII, Jackie Thompson only another 147 comments to get to 1000. then you’ve won. Period
I’m not disputing your great knowledge but you don;t half go on. :}
Man your f*cking dumb BF. The Aurion has 10kw more, which due to FWD translates into even more power to the wheels over RWD. The torque figure which you jerk off over is all but negated by the extra weight the Falcon has to pull around. Therefore at the very LEAST the Aurion is as quick as the Falcon, in reality its a touch faster. The fact is you HAVENT driven the Aurion…. you HAVENT driven the TRD… admittably I havent driven the TRD but Im sure everyone here who knows me as a Toyota fan isnt going to dispute Ive driven the Aurion. This aside, your trying to claim there is some conspiracy that magazines are lying about the 100 times, your an absolute joke, fair enough they can be off as the speedos are usually calibrated to underestimate than overestimate speed, but this applies to the Falcon and Aurion.
And to clarify on something, Im not posting to try and ‘beat’ you, your idiotic posts are doing all the work for me when it comes to those who know anything about cars (which you are NOT a part)… I am posting to ensure those with less knowledge dont come here and actually believe your drivel RE the Aurion and TRD.
TP,
mate out of curiosity and going back to what wheelnut brought up about having to do some brake/handbrake motions to unlock power (but later clarrified as for turning off the esp etc),
could this have something to do with it? and dont just dismiss it. think for a second………
when they do official tests i assume they would turn it off (especially if it is toyotas figures).
well perhaps when BF11 has seen or actually tested the aurion, the nannies have naturally still been on meaning initial power has been somewhat restricted???
just think about it…….
I think maybe both of you are right
Andrew.M NO… this guy hasnt driven the Aurion mate, he claimed to have driven the TRD and it did the 100 in 8 seconds… claims the Aurion does it in 10 secds…you believe this? Get real, your talking about 200kw and 330Nm… a V6 Camry with 140kw and 260Nm does the 100 quicker then 10 seconds!!!! Ive ACTUALLY driven it… its 7 seconds. Reviewers have driven it… its 7 seconds. Posters here have driven it…. its 7 seconds. These are all with nannies on. Turn them off and you apprently get to 100 ABIT quicker, as you regulate the amount of power vs loss of traction (naturally nannies are abit more conservative)
Holden comodore is doomed here in aus. There sellin em over in usa as pontiacs. Large car sales are slowly evaporating cause everybody is buying small fuel efficient cars here. Ford falcon will be still badged as a Ford falcon in USA and always use Ford parts on em. No wonder commodre will slowly fade away cause yanks have never heard of a commodore only Pontiacs. HAHAHAHAH to holden . Remember its always the badge on the car that people always look for not wat they think a car really is and where it comes from. GO FORD 2008 ORION doing much better than GM or holden or watever brand of car that is..
TP,
im trying to be reasionable. as i said JUST THINK
as if toyota wouldnt have turned off all the nannies to achieve their 7.4secs.
i actually doubt you have timed the aurion either. have you suddenly remembered that you have now?
i think their might be some merit in that it is/was turned off in time trials whereas BF11′s claims were derived from it still being turned on
No Andrew I havent timed it (FUNNY YOU QUESTION MIND… NOT BF WHO SAID HE TIMED IT MANY TIMES!!! I DOUBT HE HAS EVEN DRIVEN AN AURION YET SOMEHOW TIMING IT MANY TIMES!!).
BF your an idiot, FWD have LESS power loss twat… I will put it in lay terms because you lack any intellgience. The engine is spinning on the same angle as the tyres, therefore there is less resistance in getting that power from the engine to the wheels. A RWD has the engine spinning in the opposition direction to the tyres, when it hits that rear diff, heat, LOSS OF POWER. It is a fact FWD lose less power from engine to wheels… dispute this and much like your 100 times, your disputing logic. I also find your Holden comments good for a laugh, somehow Ford who have been through a couple of bosses, now changing their engine and are running at huge losses… have better chance then Holden? Holden is bringing a Diesel engine to Commodore range, along with their LPG injected engines… Ford have what? Their backyard job LPG which until recently (maybe still?) only got 150kw from a 4L engine and guzzled 15L per 100km.
Andrew should have mentioned I didnt time it but I judge it because you know I have a V6 Camry, 100 in 9 seconds… the Aurion feels ALOT… and I meant ALOT…quicker. Go test drive one Andrew, honestly, will take 20mins away from your day.
Yeah and youd know what the jump on a TRD feels like…. they do 100 in 8 second, youve driven one LOL. Yet another ‘oh i floored this car’ piece of evidence… credibility? Nil.
TP, take a hike back to Toyota forums then….
Yes BF well unlike you I actually have a Degree… a real one… not a cut out from a Kellogs cornflakes box.
No Oz, but you can p*ss off thanks… you contribute NOTHING
Hey BFII, “Watto_Cobra” does 7 litres per 100KM in his AU Falcon. That’s good isn’t it!
TP said…
“No Oz, but you can p*ss off thanks… you contribute NOTHING”
You speak for your self dirt bag.
you never contribute anything good your self it’s like the pot calling the kettle black
Yeah its called highway… a combined figure which they quote as official includes city which kills that nice little figure. Aurions have been said to get 6′s on Hway!
TP(Tomboy Puller) watch you vulgar. Or leave, thanks….
Can’t answer my comment TP?
Im still waiting for evidence of your claims BF on TRD and Aurion accleration. I provided links waaaaaay back up top of the true figures, 6.1secs for TRD 7.4secs for Aurion… you have provided what? ‘i raced this guy’? ‘i saw this race’? ‘ive driven a trd, aurion, ss’? The only gear stick youve been using is the one between your legs.
Sorry BFII :(
#TP Says: 29/01/08 @ 9:42 pm….
“But i still admit…. Falcon is a better car than Aurion!”
#Toyota Paul Says: 28/09/07 @ 12:34 pm….
“And as for hating Ford so much, I think if you look hard enough you will find positive comments made by me about Fords.”
_____________________________________________
What the hell has gottin’ in to you Paul? You claim you made positive comments about Ford, now you hate them.
Don’t respond to this comment with vulgar thanks.
LMAO AT THE TP!!! LMAO!!!
rearwheel drive vs frontwheel drive wake up!
repeating again and again!
wake up world!
or should i write the simple program HELLO WORLD;) in C
#TP Says: 31/01/08 @ 8:00 pm
“Sorry BFII :( ”
______________________________________________________
Now say sorry to me for saying, “No Oz, but you can p*ss off thanks… you contribute NOTHING”…..
Still waiting….
Oz you do contribute nothing…Alborz, why isn’t this BFII/JACKIE THOMPSON idiot banned yet???
To Oz’s comment (January 31st, 2008 at 8:00 pm): If you could read and understand what you wrote you wouldn’t have said it. It doesn’t make sense.
BFII: Falcon doesn’t get 5 to 6L/100km on the highway idiot. It get about 7, which is still great for its size.
you’re all a bunch of unfair people
put your characters back together
what i meant is that the EF to AUIII do between 5 to 7 litres depending on the road surface and inclinne , wind speed and direction , number of people in a car;) etc etc.
get your facts straight fags , you’re all ignorant pieces of rubish!
BFII
its a shame that you dont love the Falcon:( where is your common knowledge people
the best mass production large rearwheel drive family car on earth;)
Jbot i told you … go and screw a goat;)
Jbot,
ah let OZ go mate,
at least he is harmless which is more than you can say about most people on this site.
also you wont get the higher revving lower end geared Aurion getting 6L/100k on the highway either as TP claims. the falcon actually stands a better chance of hitting it. its actually city cycle that favours the aurion. Hway cycle is the falcons domain. due to the low down torque in the falcon they are able to push the gear ratos up the scale a bit further hence it is suited more so to Hwy cycle. stop start, when the falcon is stuck in the lower gears (ie city style) is where it is hurt
Jbot, why are you attacking me? Then you support TP and you say BFII should be banned. You say “Oz you do contribute nothing” but where? I rarely see you make any contribution here so you don’t you just give your self up and stop being a hipocrit?
BTW, your last comment was not contribution so there you go…you are a hipocrit.
what’s a hipocrit? LOL at your spelling. Its hypocrite mate… And I’d say I’ve contributed quite a bit actually. I often answer questions people have, and share anything I know. I just so happen to also have a short fuse when it comes to idiots ranting about something they know nothing about. You won’t see me making any wild claims like this BFII idiot. Whatever I say, I can back up..
#jbot Says: 25/01/08 @ 2:24 pm…
“These ‘personal attacks’ have gone both ways cobra and BM (especially you BM). I don’t think you should be making comments like that.. Bit hypocritical if you ask me.”
________________________________________________________
Jbot, you say everone is “hypocritical” for making attacks on others, yet I know where you attack people your self….Well I know where you have attacked people your self…
Here are some of your personal attacks… enjoy ;) ….
“Idiot Klink. This is a stripped-out car designed for the track, nothing like an Aston.”
“Me, I’d be suprised if you had your licence yet.”
“ME: I’ll be quite happy if CarAdvice do see your comments above, as they may take your advice on yourself. While they are at it, they’d probably find that Orion’08 is the same person.”
“You’re spending a lot of time on here during the school holidays Me. Coincidence?”
“Brett C, say something relevant, or I’m sure you will shortly be banned. All your comments are the same as above – pointless and abusive.”
“I’m definitely not a fan of her drivel either… And there is a lot of us out there.
“insulted me again or do I make a phone call to Alborz and get your b u t t kicked off here too” sounds a lot like “I’m going to tell mummy on you!”. Grow up BM.”
“See my post on Land Rover LRX post. I don’t plan on responding to any more of your petty remarks.”
“Ok mate. Recap the abuse you’ve thrown my way in the last few hours. I just pointed out when you were wrong, and now you’ve gone on acting like a 10 yr old.”
“Me, grow up. That is all.”
And?
Mate, I’m well aware that I do “attack” people from time to time, but I also don’t pretend I’m innocent. So I’m no hypocrite. And from what you’ve shown here, I only mentioned the word once, and it was used correctly in the context of the discussion.
“jbot” you also did this…
“Why do you say that Klink? I’m not in the market for one of these atm, but that doesn’t mean I can’t comment on the post. You often post on Lambo/Rolls Royce, etc posts, when you and I both know you would never be able to afford one… Get over yourself.”
Spelling? You sound like you still knew what it was so I think you are trying some cunning tactics.
And BTW, its no surprise to me that most of the comments you have recalled are about Me, your other alias…
What is your point, or haven’t you got one????
You providing these comments I’ve made shows nothing other than you have WAY too much time on your hands.. You’ve got quotes from at least 6 posts, and some of them are 6 months old!!
You done yet jbot, making 3 posts in a row? So you are now having ago at me? Looks like you can’t cope.
Ok I can’t cope. Mind telling me what I can’t cope with? And I’m pretty sure I was having a go at you from the start…
I think I’ll take your advice Andrew M and just let Oz go. The poor guy can embarrass himself haha.
You ok OZ……..??? Thats what Dingo use to do as well before he got banned for good! Oz…..gee aren’t we missing him !
Yep, you speak for your self, you can’t cope… Ha Ha!
Yes BM I’m ok! ;)
You may not have picked up on it, but the whole ” I can’t cope” thing is called sarcasm…. You may need to look that word up Oz.
Only 92 comments to go for the big K..
Just trying to lighten the load folks
And so I did (on this site)… “A savage bitter form of humor usually intended to hurt or wound”
Yep….NO…NAME…(BM style)LOL! A CarAdvice milestone (a word jbot needs to look up to know what it is).
I saw the fuel economy dispute, I’ve made a point of measuring/recording mine lately, as Jbot knows.
TP, when I got 7.9L/100kms, that was approx 40/60 city/ country driving. The thing is, Albury/Wodonga wouldn’t have the same congestion as the capitals, but it is still a small (twin)city. When I quote 40/60, that is time spent in city vs. on freeway, not a direct ratio of kilometers. But still pretty damn good in my opinion.
If it was all freeway driving, I’m sure I would get under 7. I’ll know next time I head to Canberra or Sydney.
That was accelerating gently using the I6 torque, getting off the throttle early before corners, but not really holding other people up.
Normal driving with a heavy right foot I get 10L/100kms or a bit under, for the same 40/60.
Ah yeah jbot, you said “Oz you do contribute nothing” You have not given me the answer to that.
Or did you just choose to come around and make a cunning re-mark to try and put me down just because you hold a grudge againts me? If that’s so, why do you even come to this site if you can’t be positive to other readers on here…. :?:
Jbot,
mate please dont lower yourself to the level of the late Dingo.
as i said OZ is harmless so how tough are you??
who cares if he spelt something wrong? many people spell things incorrectly on this site. some because it is a genuine mistake and others genuinely arent sure of the correct way. what does it matter?
im sure you dont know the correct spelling to every word….
so to reiterate OZ is harmless so let it be.
I didn’t make the comments just because of his spelling…
Ah yeah jbot, you said “Oz you do contribute nothing” You have not given me the answer to that.
Or did you just choose to come around and make a cunning re-mark to try and put me down just because you hold a grudge againts me? If that’s so, why do you even come to this site if you can’t be positive to other readers on here….
Jbot, do you know what MYOB stands for?
I’m well aware of what it means Oz, and I suggest you forget about the possibility of it happening.. It goes both ways Oz. You keep asking me for an answer to “Oz you do contribute nothing”.. There is nothing to answer! It is called a statement, and I stand by it.
You’ve thrown some insults around too, so don’t go crying when some come back your way.
Good jbot, next time try be more assertive before you make negitive posts like that.
That doesn’t make any sense…
And when did I say I never make insults jbot?
Quote: “That doesn’t make any sense…”
You made an insults to me, don’t try to keep it going and think about what can happen when you do it…
LOL assertive has nothing to do with that..
“You may not have picked up on it, but the whole ” I can’t cope” thing is called sarcasm…. You may need to look that word up Oz.”
So you don’t know what assertive means after you had a go at me by saying I dont know what sarcasm means.
Quote: “LOL assertive has nothing to do with that..”
It took along time for you to respond, so you must of had to duck off to find out what it means.
I replied the minute after you said it idiot.
And I do know what assertive means, it is infact you who is confused (yet again).
JBOT………..Ive just PM you………have a read babe!
No negitive comments exepted thanks!
Where is this message?
jbot, not only have you brought this off topic, you are still trying to put up a fight with me.
There are many meaning to assertive, jbot. It’s can be about thinking ahead.
jbot the message in on your account on the forum.
I have emailed you from the Forum………….I take it you signed up as you…….
Check your email!
Haha I’d love to know what dictionary that came from. And I didn’t bring it off topic, you were never on it!
I wont be answering any more of your posts, because you clearly lack the intellect to understand what I’m saying. So I guess you’ve got your wish, and I’ll leave you now (mind my own business – thats what you meant before right?).
Just replied BM.
To me jbot, it sounds like you finnaly giving your self up but your making the final word to not make your self look bad by being cunning. wow, not!
If it were the dictionary how does that make me lack intellect to understand? bout time you give your self up so we can finnaly get back on topic.
Quote………..John Lennon……….
“Whispers words of wisdom, let it be”
Quote: “Quote………..John Lennon……….”
“Whispers words of wisdom, let it be”
Yep…
Now it’s time for me to finnaly bring this back on topic again….
It says in the article: “According to sources, the Fairmont, XR6, XR8, Futura names will remain in the Orion lineup.”
No XT? How do we know they are going to replace ‘XT’ with ‘Orion’?
They named the DOHC I6 the ‘Barra’ after it was the code-name for the BA Falcon, so that’s a possibility Orion may take the base model.
It would be better with ‘Orion’ than ‘XT’ because when I told others about the ‘XT Falcon’ they thought I was talking about the Falcon after the XR Falcon in the late 60s.
But then again, there have been words about the ‘G6′ & ‘G6-E’, so if not ‘Orion’ maybe ‘G6′.
I read in the Herald-Sun Cars Guide today that they’re dropping most of the usual monikers and mostly using two or three alpha-numeric designations like “G6″ “G6E” etc.
Yep no more TYPHOON………….
OZ…………..JBOT…….is cool babe lets all discuss cars and not insult each other.xxx
Thanks JBOT………I appreciate it honey! xxxooo
“XT Falcon” from the 60s and “Falcon XT” today, hopefully something new and also would attract people to buy it.
Thanks BM, glad we all over and happy now.
Surely FPV will stick with it’s names tho. They’ve just spent 5 or more years establishing names like Typhoon, Tornado, etc, to be instantly recognisable as a hi-po Falcon.
I’m also betting XR will stay.
It says in the article: “According to sources, the Fairmont, XR6, XR8, Futura names will remain in the Orion lineup.” But XT is unknowin.
But would FPV stay the same? I say so, but i’m no Ford insider so anything could happen.
i have to fords an 1998xr8,, which goes ok and a 1969 xt powerplant in that is 429 big block ,
looking round for a xa coupe in new zealand to buy
I think the Crown Victoria is more in the same class as the Fairlane then a Falcon. But if we had a “trans-Pacific” compertition, the Fairlane would win no worries.
The Crown Vic is now currently been made for the fleet sales for now on, but if a Fairlane or Falcon came, there would be no more Crown Vic and Australia will take over USA :D .
It’s good to see you back BFII
I bought my 2003 BA FALCON XR 6 from the factory brand new and I never had any problems with it. Regular servicing, averaging 12.9 litres per 100km and with only 55,ooo on it I can easily get another 150,000 on it before problems start. Buy a Ford everybody cause they last much longer and go faster than all the rest. 2008 Orion I cant wait till its out. Its gonna humiliate all the others.
BF,
how do you know that the US will have the falcon name in a year or 2?
BFII the Falcon won’t be in the US within 2 years because ford confirmed no export plans, but if it ever goes over there, it would be in more than 2 years time.
but if Ford ever come up with export plans in the future, it would be well after 2 years from now.
OZ,
dont forget they could alternatively take the “falcon recipe” and produce it in the states as well as here. if the falcon was to replace their crown, Aus exorts wouldnt keep up anyhow, plus they wouldnt just shut down their plants either as they also have to put consideration to job loss too
Bought Wheels mag… XR8 looks alrite, fog lights are abit overdone but still good.
Also addressing the Kluger attacks which have been around the blogs, ford fairies go to new lows… the wheels test was an absolute joke, 100km/h… on gravel… around a corner. Geeez everyone with a Kluger better get rid of it because it a situation that anyone with half a brain wouldnt get themselves in, might cause the Kluger… and most other vehicles in its class… to roll! (And before peopel say ‘oh its only one to roll’… as Toyota stated and I agree with, there are other variables such as driver error to consider)… forgetting how dumb this particular test, and for that matter, all wheels COTY tests are (I find it very hard to believe the best car on the streets is the ones which are predominantly perofrmance based… as thats what wheels mainly tests, forget real world things like fuel efficency). Lastly on Kluger, it happened to win I think it was Drives car of the year, so much for Wheels… the paragraphs they wrote about it were completely biased given their bad experience… from driver retardness.
TP,
but mate whether or not it was operated outside toyotas recommendations or not the fact still remains that others were tested at the same time and did not fail.
who’s to say the driver didnt take it easier in the Kluger compared to the others? isnt esp meant to correct driver error?
but yes i agree it shouldnt be reason for other kluger owners to rid them selves of their vehicle, that would be silly
The problem I see with this test Andrew.M is its supporting the idea that ESP can get you out of all sh*t. The fact is it cant. Youd have be completely stupid to go 100km/h on a gravel road in a straight line… let alone around a corner, ESP saves lives on the roads where it see’s most use, and thus why most manufacturers calibrate it for the road not loose surfaces (Wheels complained about alot of cars ESP, ABS etc on the gravel… which was fair enough on say the Landcruiser, an offroader, but a Kluger is the kind of car that mostly sees bitumen).
dont take it personally mate,
whether or not it was operated outside toyotas recommendations or not the fact still remains that others were tested at the same time and did not fail.
dont take it so personally
I do agree with TP nanny controls are over rated and are not the be all end all to your safty. please take some responsability including airbags TP…………You know what wheels also need….There own tame racing driver.Anyone know what the drivers of Wheels reaction time is? All cars tested should be by the same driver when against the clock and have a min clicks on them so they are run in enough to get a true indication of times!
I bet Ford will give Wheels yet again something thats done no ks on the Orion and again it will come up crap against the Commodore….sorry Wheelnut,but nothing against the Commodore.You know what I mean lover…………
AndrewM as BM alluded to… each driver, hell even the same driver, in each circumstance… is going to react different, just because it rolls means nothing, especially given the ridiculous testing parameters of 100km/h, on gravel, around a bend. If we really wanted to get into this, they did complement the Kluger in its structural integrity, I recall a Ford explorer in the U.S being named and shamed over its roof collapsing under the lightest of pressure.
Paul …………your right but Andrew is too ,if they were all tested by the same tester I guess!
I guess Toyota should perhaps prove Wheels wrong by doing their own test.Same conditions!
You’re right with the safety but BM. It don’t matter what gear you have on a car if your going to fast your going too fast. ESP won’t slow you down much. The wheels thing wasn’t exactly scientific I guess so you shouldn’t read too much into it. I would imagine Toyota will take this pretty seriously and do their own tests. They would be fools not to.
I know what you mean Babe
To make the wheels test more even Ford should let them use one of the pre-production prototypes which are often very close to a full-on model.. they are “handbuilt ” and usually walked down the line to help train workers on the production line how the car will be built [step by step]when it comes on line
They are then used in the final stage of assessments -steering brakes suspension etc and therefore would have a fair few more Kms on the clock compared to one straight out of the showroom.
You found it Wheelnut……….
No the test wheels did was closer to a real world scenario than what ANCAP could manage in their lab.
The differnece being that the Wheels journo reacted as most drivers would have had the situation arisen which required them to suddenly vere or swerve out their lane inorder to miss an obstacle then return to the original lae after they had passed the obstacle
where as in the lab the dummy would have just kept driving in a straight line and hit the obstacle which if ti were a rock would have probalby caused the car to roll
so the end result was the same I guess
Hahaha wheels test was closer to real world scenario… .Wheelnut no-one in their right mind would hit a bend…. on gravel…. at 100km/h… its nothing like a real world scenario. As I said earlier, the problem with this ridiculous test is its making the assumption that ESP should pull people out of the sh*t in everything… sorry it has its limits, especially when its calibrated for roads not gravel.
Yeah but you may be driving along a gravel road at 80kmh and all of a sudden come upon a corner; bend or even a hairpin and have to change direction
I admit that due to the reduced level of grip there is less chance of the ABS EBD or ESP working as well as it would on a sealed road..
yet the Kluger a crossover vehicle thereby some off road driving would be expected
So even if the inbuilt computerised safety features didn’t work the car itself should be balanced enough via its suspension to handle such a turn on a flat surface relatively well
It seems the others managed to negotiate the bend
Mate who travels at even 80km/h on a gravel road… it doesnt happen if you have any common sense. You drive a car with ESP as you would an Non-ESP… assuming it wont work, on the road where its design and 99% of Klugers will be used, it works well… on the gravel, most companies ESPs have problems because you dont calibrate it for circumstances which dont occur. This is why the offical tests where they lane change then go back to original lane are a more real world application… not 100km/h around a bend on a gravel surface, that is simply asking for trouble… and remember we really dont know if this incident was driver error or not either!
Agreed.. However; these days common sense isn’t all that common.. particularly in the 18-25 age bracket
Who will mostl ikely be the ones to try such a stunt thinking that they can pull it off on Playstation 3 so it should work in the real world as well.
“Who travels at 80km/h on a gravel road” Well, I do.
I live 2kms down a gravel road. My good car I drive at 40-50km/h, but my old work horse I take to 110km/h in 3 places on said road. The only reason for the speed difference between the two is the possibility of being blindsided by a roo.
When I come across a roo (often) in the old work taxi, I brake hard and don’t swerve. I’d rather hit a roo than a tree.
Well Watto then Id say your crazy…. 99.9% of Klugers will not be going 100km/h on a gravel road.
My point is you make a blanket statement that “NO ONE” travels more than 80 on gravel. That is a big joke!!! What do you think they do in the outback?
You haven’t seen my road TP, you don’t know if it’s safe to travel 30 or 160 on it TP. So don’t call me crazy buddy. I’ve driven that same road every day for 12 years, and unless you are a useless driver TP who has never seen dirt, I’d say anyone could do at least 80 safely. The only thing to fear is roo damage, unless you foolishly swerve to miss them and kiss a tree.
I take it all rally drivers are crazy too then? And before you say “oh, but pro drivers in race cars, rollcages, etc” many an aspiring rally driver has started off in an old Datto.
Why on earth won’t you do more than 80 ks Paul…….Live a bit Paul….99% of Klugers I think will cause if they don’t they are going to get passed !
As Watto says you ever driven in the Outback……..most triple road trains do more than 110 on the dirt……….
I use to go rallying in a Ford Anglia………that was fun……..
Watto,
you beat me to it and im surprised you were the first.
TP,
you obviously havent driven outside of the CBD have you??
are you going to travel 20-40kmh on a dirt road that is 10k’s or even longer??
oh and Toyota dont programme ESP for events that shouldnt happen? thats good to know since all events where you get into trouble shouldnt happen. but then whats the point of ESP if its not suppose to correct the things that shouldnt have gone wrong??
the biggest thing on dirt roads is not going through a bend at 80-100kmh but rather an unexpected Roo jumping out at you.
and even if the guy that test drove the Kluger didnt have any clue what so ever, does that mean that ESP will only work if a professional driver is in the seat?
Paul: how off topic do you want this to get? As everyone said, you can drive over 80KM/H on certan dirt roads…end of story.
AndrewM your displaying the typical ignorant behaviour re ESP in your last sentence… ESP WILL NOT PULL YOU OUT OF THE SH*T IN EVERYTHING. Its noted by Wheels that many cars have problems on loose surfaces with ESP, they are calibrated for roads not gravel.
Watto your crazy, fair enough 99% of the time you will be ok but when their is an emergency situation, no nanny is going to save you. Using your logic I cant go 100km/h in every local street around me, I know them well, 99% of time it will be ok… being able to do something and it being safe are two different things.
TP you’re crazy commenting on things you seem to know nothing about. No car I’ve owned has nanny devices.
Have you had much experience with gravel roads personally? You’ve already told Andrew.M you have very little to do with hiluxs.
Again, you haven’t seen my road. Of course you can’t drive fast in the burbs, too many varibles with traffic, intersections, children, bicyclists, etc. I don’t have those things on my road.
BM, yeah I forgot to mention the triple road-trains doing triple digits on dirt/gravel. Mind you they don’t even blink when they hit a roo, lol.
The term Nanny Device comes from the term Nanny State where the government watches and recods everything that goes on.. [Like a Nanny] inorder to take action should someone break one of their supressive laws etc..
So the only real nanny device that could be fitted into a car [by the government] would be a device which would allow the RTA to monitor the telemetry etc of the car and control what it car does – particularly speed which would effectively turn the car into a full size remote control car.. Which would render the driver useless
I know that Quick-Track is a similar system which alerts owners if their pride and joy has been stolen and the car can be shut down via remote control.. However they are fitted by the owner as a form of protection/security just like Datadots.. not by the govt as a form of control
Anyway wasn’t this particular Blog supposed to be about the Orion Falcon..
It seems that Toyota Fans can’t stay focussed on the subject..
I mean on Blogs about Toyota they’d rather talk about Ford/Holden
Yet on Blogs about Ford/Holden they’d rather talk about Toyota
which makes it fairly reasonable to assume that if they were driving on a dirt road they would roll the Kluger.. not because of the car but due to lack of attention and concentration
Got ya Wheelnut. I guess many people call ESP,etc “nannies” on blogs.
ok im out of ways in trying to explain this to you TP, so i will resort to repeating myself……..
Andrew M Says:
February 5th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
dont take it personally mate,
whether or not it was operated outside toyotas recommendations or not the fact still remains that others were tested at the same time and did not fail.
dont take it so personally
Please let the last posts be about the Orion………I would love to reach 1000 and be discussing a Ford than a Toyota…..
Hey Seagull 2 who missed out on the chip……..I got it squawk……!
I prefer Fish anyway
Ah…….but the chips last longer………hahaha
Ford are hanging a lot on this baby, seems strange considering not many want such big cars nowadays. It will no doubt sell but not in great numbers. Best thing they should do rom the minute go is bung the 2.litre twin turbo diesel fom the Jag/LR, only then they’ll sell more.
Approaching the 1000 comments….who’ll get it i wonder
This will be the longest blog in CA……..I think the last word should go to Alborz.
This is not the be all end all though for Ford Oz……
Hows the tongue??? Cupid?
If Alborz wants a reader to get the 1000th milestone, I think it would be for some person by the name of “Bavarian Missile”, :mrgreen: or should I say the person’s real name? Betta not! :oops:
I don’t expect the Orion Falcon to become the new XE Falcon again, but it will hopefully keep the falcon name for awile.
As I said on another page, I saw a Falcon commercial for the first time in a centry!!! It was for the SR. I almost thought Ford forgot they made a sedan called “FALCON”.
Awwwwww shucks OZ……Thankyou. No you best not on the name…….shhhhhhh
AndrewM is the next in line but he will be at work I guess when it touches 1000……..I had only been posting here for a month at that time!
Me still thinks the new XR8 will be great value for money and the F6 will be the new epitome for FPV, till the HO in 2010.hehehe
Oz I was the first ever on the new site to post…….not the forum but the upgraded CA……The 3rd to join the forum under Alborz though……
Ooooh your’e naughty…yours truly the love liquer
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the
Pohmmie
got
it
whoops off topic….
yeh its a great car can’t wait to see its launch. Give the old VE a run for its money won’t it
awwwwwww,you cheated Cupid. Mes naughty…hahaha
Yep you got the 1000 Cupid Stunt/No Name. You win a new Falcon with an optional diesel in it ;-)
^
No you get 2 :D
Holden will be next to close down in aus cause they all gonna be Pontiacs in USA. If u sent em over to the USA as a comoddore nobody over there would know what they are. Holden is finished. Ford are the best and will be the best forever. Remeber when you buy a ford u get ford parts on it. Suffer holden
I Don’t think that Hodlen will be the next to go because of a statement made by the 2IC at Toyotat at the Tokyo Motorshow that they are considering closing the Australian Operations..
I mean there was speculation about Mitsubishi closing until the decision was made.. and now this statement has possibly created speculation over Toyotas Future..
Whereas Ford and Holden have both become the R&D Cantres for Future RWD projects. which kind of gives you an idea where the Australian Operations are in the hierarchy of the 3 remaining local manufacturers.
We will have to wait and see
I’d hate to see any companys diss-continue any Australian models. Now that Mitsubishi’s 380 is going, we need to hope that’s the last closure in a very long time.
BTW Wheelnut, what’s a “Hodlen” & “Toyotat” :mrgreen: LOL!
Andrew this isnt taking it personaly… your missing the points raised, driver error could and imo more than likely is the contributor. You cant say ‘oh no other cars had problems… Kluger did, its the worst’ becaues the tests they do lack one crucial thing, any controls. Its all a marketing stunt in reality, hardly scientific.
Diesel falcon Watto..send it over please.
Can’t really see Holden closing shop, if they are quick and sort the VE problems shove a diesel in, it will sell, no doubts. Perhaps a mild face lift and a relaunch would help after all the Commodor is pure Australia. Oh and so is the Falcon
205KW and 395Newton meters of torque is just way ahead of all the others. I knew Ford will bring out a car that will humiliate all the others. And thats only your base Falcon. Kill em all ford.
Humiliate others? They got 4L and they can only equal the Aurion in power… thats pathetic.
Paul two different engines….
The Ford makes its torque at lower revs and more of it!
You have to ring the neck out of the Aurion at 6,200 to extract 200kws……me I prefer it low down. Up top torque is just good for flybys…….
Oh and I found out that surmising you thought we were doing with Fords new V6 Twin turbo…..well seems that Ford have made one for it so don’t be surprised if that’s what’s coming in 2010.
Haha BF you idiot, you have absolutely no clue about cars… now your trying to claim the 3.5L Aurion is heavily tuned from 170kw to get 200kw? Now on the face of it you could say hmmm maybe he is right… but two facts are completely against you. Firstly as Ive said there is a direct injection variant, which makes 230kw, showing the engine is capable of significant power. Secondly and the MOST obvious thing is the fuel consumption, 9.9L per 100km… if you had half a brain youd realise when you ‘hard tune’ something its good bye fuel efficiency, you wouldnt get 9.9L per 100km if it was a 170kw engine pumping out 200kw.
The fact is, the Falcon makes the same power as the Aurion does on premium unleaded…. which equates to the Aurion having more power… as again anyone with half a brain is aware that RWD lose more power to the wheels then FWD. Torque is the department in the Falcon wins in, which is however offset by its additional weight.
BM go drive an Aurion instead of being an armchair critique and commenting on it. The Aurion has 90% torque down low, is a lighter vehicle and is geared to keep it in the optimum range. As for twin turbo v6 good for them, they already have a XR6T turbo… are are aware that a twin turbo doesnt mean more power because of two turboes, it means more linear delivery of power.
BF11,
mate ease up on the insults mate.
yes i know he can be frustrating but lowering yourself to that standard takes away any credibility with in what you say.
TP,
im seeing your points raised on the rollover thing but you arent seeing mine. it seems like a dead argument where you wont concede so lets not talk about it…….Agreed??
TP you know what else is pathetic about the 3.5L aurion V the 4.0L falcon???
the Aurion uses the same amount of fuel as the half a litre bigger falcon and the aurion uses the “more efficient drive set up” (FWD) as you put it.
TP,
firstly the extra 100kgs the falcon has is more than covered by the extra 50nm with plenty left over.
and secondly the other thing you dont realise is that the torque and power advantage is even greater in low revs in the falcon.
so 90% down low in the aurion??
well whats down low (how many RPM)???
its still not going to beat 100% down low like the falcon has.
ive seen the torque curve on the aurion but i cant remember exactlly what the figures are, ill have to see if i can dig one up.
or maybe you might be better at finding it again than me since you seem to be quite the little web searcher (thats a compliment)
BF11,
mate id didnt realise they let you opt for the 5.4L in the SR series like you have.
i just checked it out though and i found that they did. you must have one of a very few that opted for the V8
Anti spam word is FPV……
Paul said
BM go drive an Aurion instead of being an armchair critique and commenting on it. The Aurion has 90% torque down low, is a lighter vehicle and is geared to keep it in the optimum range. As for twin turbo v6 good for them, they already have a XR6T turbo… are are aware that a twin turbo doesnt mean more power because of two turboes, it means more linear delivery of power.
What I have stated is stats Paul I thought you were into those. Why get up Fords 4.0 litre in-line 6 that’s been a clear winner in its category for years ? Maybe lighter vehicle but your point was against the engine not the weight! So stop changing the subject. Mate I think I have more mechanical knowledge than you…….Oh course I know what a twin turbo means, after all BMW won engine of the year with theirs! If you want to start talking about real engines would love to take you one BMWs against Lexus…..who do you think gets the most kws per litre there mate! You seem to have a picture of me reading Womens Weeklys still and doing my nails!…….Instead its more like Engine masters in Popular Hot Rodding and getting highlights done!
Some of you in here are just full of Torque and no traction. Go ford keep on torquing it up. See yu in a few weeks time at a Ford dealership test driving my new Typhoon and puttin 1 on order to.
Just a quick question. If Toyota is so good why did the ESP fail on the Kluger during COTY testing. According to my sources The ESP failed casing the car to roll repeatedly. Toyota = Quality More like Toyota = Scrap Metal
MIMS is just around the corner boyz and girlz.
Jbot his posts are giving me a headache because he just keeps talking about the same totally incorrect sh*t.
Andrew you say reducing his credibility, prime example of you idiots bias towards supporting a twat… this guy has made so many ridiculous claims its not funny. His credibility was lost on his first post…. the 1000 posts that have followed have only supported this fact
TP,
mate for one dont start abusing me!!!!!!! im not an idiot so pull your tongue in!!!
how can i be supporting him when im telling him not to be abusive towards you???
abusive language does lower ones credibility no matter what is said or whether it is right or wrong. im encouraging him to drop the abuse in search of a civil argument.
as ive said before some of what BF says does hold some truth whether you like to hear it or not. i havent agreed with everything he’s said so im not being a bias idiot supporting a twat.
so how about an apology??
Jbot, sorry, I hadn’t noticed, please use the contact form in the future to inform us.
I am about to delete all his posts and ban him.
Cheers.
According to this nutter, Ford could have made the I6 get 300kW N/A (but they CHOSE to leave it at 190kW)!!! Come on, this is pure BS.
Thanks Alborz. Its so frustrating seeing these sort of posts when people genuinely do look to sites like these when researching for their next car.
6 seconds from 60-100?
You roll dice to come up with those figures?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WVxFT6ppOY
Theres your “6 seconds”
delete one more Alborz and you become the 1000th poster
i hope you didnt rig it ha ha ha
AndrewM…….It just happened after a few posts were deleted.
Originally in was Cupid and then I was 1001!
BM, But that person was cheating!
I know babe…….but he is a funny guy……..
Night babe xxx
Can but try Eh!!
Not long now. Less than 48 hours. Dammit clock, c’mon.
My wife has a Toyota Aurion from work, its a base model white color. I own a 2006 BF XR6 ZF6 speed. And the Falcon feels a lot more alive and i’d say a lot quicker than her car that she’s got from work. Its simply a NO match for a stock BF XR6 auto.
Kev.R
Yes a lack of refinement will FEEL faster… but the facts are facts, people have tested them with equipment designed for it, not “feelings”… and Aurion is faster
Aurion auto is one full second slower in every way at any time than my BF XR6 auto.
BF Falcon that i own is technically a 1998 platform from the AU and BA , and its more comfortable than Aurion that my wife drives.
It accelerates harder , when we had a bit of fun on the saturday i drove Aurion trying to chase the BF that her brother drove.
And i couldnt catch it , he was leading infront of me by 3-5 cars away at all times , on take off at the lights he would jump infront of me by three quarters of a car lenght and then slowly move away from me , while i had my foot to the floor in the Aurion , it didnt manage to get close to the rear end of the Falcon BF. So therefore we called it the day.
We didnt want to muck around speeding on the public roads.
My conclusion is: even my old AUIII station wagon i use for work , and this BF1 XR6 ZF 6 speed that i own are more refined , quieter and smoother than Aurion.
At the end of the day i think that FWD cars can never match similar or larger RWD cars.
At least i can agree with most people here.
Most are complaining about the TRD too…it seems to be 50/50 in the straight line , while on the track an old EB XR6 with 5 speed cuts the corners better and simply drives away from it.
I’d like to see what my stock six BF XR6 would do to it…probably eat it.
So for now i hope i have converted ya to Falcon.
Cant Get Enough of This Ford rules.
Kevin.R
Oh yea and , what am i? i am not a person? … i drive the AURION V6 almost 3 times a week and at 1st i was surprised but then i was like “nah” … it just didnt cut it.
My old Magna 1999 3.5Litre manual was physically quicker than this so called 200kW Aurion.
I am taking it to calder park next saturday i’ll keep ya posted i hope i get beaten by some P plater in his VR Commodore V6.
so long
Kev.R
the otha days we were sittin at 180kmh in me falcon ba xt n we didnt hear a sound much quieta than in me gfs mothas camry altese which seems to struggle at anythin above 160kmh,as if it hits tha wall or somethin??
i am on the Kevs side!
cyas
TO ANSWER THE QUESTION TO Jbot.
an example of a naturally aspirated inline/straight six is a TVR speed 6, its a 3998cc 4Litre I6 and it makes 300kW/420Nm+ … all at higher reves.
the Falcons I6 is a conservative motor that lasts forever, i think that has allready been justified before by some other people on this forum.
PS: Falcon BA or BF are faster than Aurion V6.
Front wheel drive vs Rear wheel drive.
leave the steering to front wheels , dont put drive in to them get it?
RWD all the way.
Sam
okay… i admit it. RWD vehicles tend to be quicker than FWD vehicles… and Aurion is slightly slower
i wont be visiting this forum anymore i’ve lost the game here, trying to prove something i can not explain due to my lack of knowledge in some fields
I’d like to see TP try to tell us all that the 200kW Aurion V6 is faster than an EL GT 1997 5.0L that makes 200kW too.
simply no match thats 200kW at 4700rpm & 420Nm at 3700rpm versus a small and not so refined 3.5L 200kW at 6200rpm & 336Nm at 4700rpm little engine.
i’d like him to complain how its a 5L and it only makes 200kW
i guess he just admited a lack of knowledge not knowin that Ford had to de-tuned the EL GT from 260kW to 200kW due to the gearbox reliability problems with anythin over 200kW would tear it apart
still thats 420Nm that occur at 3700rpm vs only 336Nm that occur at higher 4700rpm , needing to be thrashed to extract whats needed.
^
Yes that really me…
Kevin Robinson we arent stupid, you are BF…. the Aurion is a full second slower then Falcon, riiiiiiiiiiight. So despite all reviews, those who drive it and those who have posted their speedo doing the 100 at various places… we are to believe that the Aurion does the 100 in 8.4 seconds (Slower then the the previous gen V6 Camry with 50kw less). Another joke. How about you try this on for size, NEW FALCON ONLY HAS 195KW… AURION REMAINS MOST POWERFUL AND NO DOUBT FASTEST LARGE CAR 6 CYLINDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
then y does my 5L Senator 1996 beat the aurion and its sista TRD in a drag? mine is only 185kw, dad wont let me mod it, may be when i get older?
some told me that trd makes 240kw y does my 185kw Senator beat it all the time? somebody explain it to me plzzzzz
Cas
185i VS Senator 4 speed auto, stock body kit 124822kms made in 1996 black.
it does 14.7s quarter mile, 0-100 in less than 6.5 from what i saw aurion did 17.5s 400m run and trd 16.2s 400m run
y is that? can somebody tell me , when aurion has 200kw and my car 185?
is it because its a v8?
Cas
CAS its because its has a lot more TORQUE “the turning effect” at the flywheel in to the gearbox.
in simple words it has more PULLING POWER which tends to move the gears a lot more freely than cars with less torque.
so with 400Nm and 185kW REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE vs FRONT WHEEL DRIVE of Aurion or TRD
it tends to beat them both in all cases, its lighter , it has less electronics , no stability control or traction controls.
Its a simple rearwheel drive 1990s technology with ample 185kW and 400Nm and its 5Litre.
So CAS i hope this explains it to you.
I hope you understand that the Aurion V6 is a normal road car with only 336Nm and 200kW on Ron95 petrol , when you run it on Ron91 you get approx 194kW and when you run it on Ron98 you get 204kW.
If you go and research on a new FG Falcon.
It alleady has 391Nm of torque at just 3250rpm thats close to your V8.
And those 391 are on Ron91.
When used on Ron95 you get 409Nm and when used on Ron98 you get 412Nm.
412Nm from a family six Falcon thats 12Nm more than your Senator VS
and 76Nm more than Aurion .
The FG Falcon makes over 205kW on Ron98 Vortex or Shell Optimax petrol.
So it basically looks like 205kW@6000rpm and massive 412Nm@3250rpm
vs Aurion you talked about which only makes
204kW on Ron98 at 6200rpm … 200rpm more than a FG Falcon
and less than 340Nm on Ron98 at very high 4700rpm 1450rpm more than Falcon.
Making it a very poor car when it comes to hard overtaking.
To get to the point.
Senator 5L will always beat the mainstream V6 cars.
Sadly i have some bad news/facts for ya.
a base model BA 182kW tends to be on par with the 185kW/400Nm Senator of yours.
therefore the current NEW FG Falcon has the V8 performance and power/torque characteristics of the older V8s which is good news.
either way
your car still beats Aurion , Magna and various other V6 powered cars including Nissan Maxima and Nissan Skyline V6 non turbo.
To others:
The Ford Falcon FG remains the most powerful and strongers most comfortable and reliable car in Australia.
If you’re looking for the next car make sure you buy FORD.
because FORD started it all.
FORD FALCON FG REMAINS THE STRONGEST FASTEST AND LARGEST FAMILY CAR IN AUSTRALIA.
BUY FORD.
Looks FAR better than the new Holden, I mean Vauxhall, I mean Opel, sorry I mean Chevrolet. Get a Ford up ya.
Holden commodore VE is only a 4 star in world class safety. So what the hell did they spend there billion dollars on. There engines are gutless and trannys dont work properly. New FG is allready rated a 5 star in world class safety. Nowonder Ford is the best aussie made car in the world.
BF you are a sad individual posting under various aliases… all of which claim to have raced a Aurion and TRD (Despite the fact the TRDs are rare as hell… let alone finding one to race and be willing to face something below it, like a rusting Senator, I laugh at tosses in their 10 year old Commodores wanting to race… a TRD own would wet himself!)
If i had any character TP i wouldnt be abusive like you are;)
a rusty 1996 Senator with just 185kW will beat a 241kW Aurion TRD.
its an 8 cylinder , the engine delivers smoother power cyclie , its rearwheel drive , its lighter , it has 400Nm at just 3600rpm vs crappy 336Nm at 4700rpm and mere 400Nm at 4000rpm
think about it TP … TRD only makes 241kW on RON98 petrol
run it on RON91 and you get 10-15% less power and torque.
Run the old pushrod Senator 185i and you get close to 200kW and just over 440Nm of torque “as shown on dynos”
now i’d like to hear you complain and say that the 241kW Aurion can beat a Senator 215i … with a 5.7Litre stroker
that has over 475Nm at 3600rpm vs 400Nm of TRD Aurion at 4000rpm
plus its RWD.
TP you lose.
just admit it … the Aurion is a very similar car to a FG Falcon
but its frontwheel drive , its 500cc smaller engine , its V6 , its not a I6 …. it has less torque.
It will never be a Falcon , its a different class alltogether.
I suggest you really think hard about it.
a stock 130kW VR Commodore RWD “crappy old buick” oil burner the worst engine ever …. can easily overtake a 200kW Aurion on the highway or roll start acceleration.
My suggestion is for you to drop it … and stop pretending that you’re TP when we all know that you’re a systems administrator.
sheme on a person with no character.
so tell me TP why does on the calder park an old EF Fairmont GHIA with a 3.45 LSD beat a 200kW AURION?
i suggest you check the reality dude.
we support none of your lies , your propaganda , your brainwashed opinions and PAID presentations marketing propaganda and crap like that….
like Holden is Australians NO1 choice “WRONG”
like Toyota is Australians NO1 choice “WRONG”
actually the reality is FORD FALCON 1st…….. get it?
Face the reality.
add these numbers
200 + 336 = 536 total
195 + 391 = 586 , that is 50 more , value of 50 extra vs what the Aurion has to offer.
And what ever Aurion offers its at ROM95 petrol you dude;)
run a Falcon FG on RON95 and you get 198kW and 409Nm
add them up and you get 607 vs 536 of what Aurion has to offer.
Run the FG Falcon on RON98 and you get over 205kW and over 410Nm
so dude … the figures speak for them selves.
dont forget that i have allready told you TP that a stock Barra 182 engine was de-tuned from 220-230kW and 440-450Nm
to make a way for stronger “turbocharged” but also de-tuned and restricted models?
it was fine tuned to just 182kW and 380Nm
and then slowly enabled via software ECU re-programming to 190/383 and now with stronger con rods , camps and intake mainfold it has more mechanical potential
therefore its again “DE-TUNED” or fine tuned for just 195kW and 391Nm
but MECHANICALLY it has a lot more than any world V6 or I6 or Boxer six in the world
think about a stocl ED making 220kW and over 440Nm with just extractors and an ECU tune…
think about it…. why does it make 220kW? and over 440Nm?
because its DE-STRICTED … ENABLED with better airflow and K&N filter
can you do those mods on Aurion? i say NO ,,,, they would yield zero result or very little.
at the end of the day lets be real
a Holen Commodre from VZ to VE V6 are better than Aurion.
Magna 380? … na not Magna…
Falcon ??? BA BF FG? …. oh yea of course.
i’d just like you do accept the fact TP.
FALCON IS THE WAY AND THE FUTURE OF OUR CONTINENT!
I completely agree with Sam, or at least with most of his stuff.
I own a 1997 VS SS Commodore White 5 speed 5.0L, i have that car stock since Feb 1997 and its stock.
My wife owns a brand new Aurion SX6 which she acquired as a present from her mother.
My car is only 165kilowatts of power and some 385Newton meters of torque as is “stock” factory SS pushrod 304ci
Her 200kW stands no chance against the VS SS Commodore.
I think some other people in this forum know what they’re on about.
I think the extra 2 cylinders play a big part in a shorter piston cycle , smoother power delivery and obviously more torque than her SX6.
In other words in real life testing conducted by my brother in Aurion and myself in the VS Commodore SS.
I have concluded that the VS SS Commodore is 2 full seconds faster than claimed 200kW Aurion.
anywhere between 40km/h to 80 , or 80 to 140.
The stock VS SS Commodore 165kW simply pulls away from the Aurion.
I have tried it myself and that old car of mine simply pulls away from the AURION.
Yes its an old heap of crap , yes its an old piece of crap, yes its rusty “actually” it has just 43000kms , but as i said it simply pulls away and disappears ahead of Aurion.
Further more to prove here is that i own a XLS Falcon BF Ute from work , its 190kW 4 speed auto , and its quicker than my VS SS Commodore , at least not as aggressive , but quicker in every way and much quieter.
So i say….and again agree with others , GO THE RWD.
;) my estimate is that the Aurion 200 , should be about 250 to be able to get close to the 165kW VS SS Commodore.
Steve
Holden people are so blind that they think that a GT falcon is the same as standard 6 cylinder falcon. Man they are retarted people.
Hairy
Old
Ladies
Drink
Every
Night
Who else here is waiting for power specs on the FG FPV Range.
Who else here is waiting for power specs on the FG FPV Range. TP may I just remind you that if your looking for power the Falcon range has much better value than the Aurion range. I would pay the $30000-$35000 for a new Falcon over the FWD Camry, sorry Aurion. I would pay the $45000 for a new XR6 Turbo which punches out 270kw and 533nm at 4500rpm over $60000-$70000 Camry, oops Aurion TRD which only has 250kw at top pelt and basically a black hole of torque.
TP = Torn to Pieces
GT-HO Phase V in 2010 or 2011 people. Think blueprinted GT-E plus Turbo or Supercharger. The Ford Gods have blessed us. GTS-R is for pussy’s. As is the TRD. Think the GT-HO had 255kw in 1970 let me repeat 255kw in 1970. It took the Commodore how many years to reach 200kw oh yeah 25 years. 25 years. 255kw in 1970 is Ferrari power back then.
BF gee wiz I really thought Sam and Steven were seperate people…. you are a joke
320KW+ NM? It will be more than gts thats for sure,ba bf was just a steping stone to the fg and i cant wait to upgrade again.
Its gonna be 325kw and 560nm. Ford is just takin it easy with there FG falcons. Next generation falcons gonna be al supercharged V8s with 400kw engines in GT and 450kw in GTHO. By then Holden will run out of ideas on how to beat Ford. Told u all Ford killes holden i mean oldhen.
haha … holden is gona run out of ideas for sure.
7.0litre pushrod looks very attractive.
but with the new corvette twin turbo 7.0litre with 700hp and 1000nm of torque i dont know what us Ford people are gona do….??
may be a supercharged mustang cobra 6.0Litre??????? perhaps a twin supercharged?
what i know off is that with in the next 5 years Holden is gona do it by the force by increasing the engine displacement thats all ………
and Ford is gona go by TECHNOLOGY keeping it at 5.0L and 6L
may be 6.4? or even bigger 7.3L?
you never know what modular engine the Ford might come up with.
from what i know ……. its all the same crap … i realised not long ago.
from the looks point of view i’d get Aurion , from the mechanical point i’d get a Falcon FG and from the women point of view i’d get a Holden.
because women are so naive that they think that Ford is shit.
so to score get a Holden , it will trick their stupid minds;)
haahahah
Holden Commodore will not be around much longer cause whos gonna buy em. Price of a barrell of oil be 125 bucks in 2 years time. Falcon will be in USA and wat is the Holden Commodore gonna be a Pontiac. Yanks dont know what a Holden is so thats why they name em Pontiacs. VF will be last holden commodore. 6.2 litre V8 is new Ford engine comin out code named hurricane or something like that. Damm unleaded fuel prices in USA are as cheap as our LPG prices.
Guys its not always about cubes. Um Sam Im a woman and would still have the Ford. They are the epitome of Aussie Muscle remember!
The Mustang Super Snake has 2 engine combs to choose from
600 BHP or 725 {unwarranted}This is out of the same 5.4 boss we use except blown! Im not into the supercharged version I want normally aspirated thanks!
Its all about making their engines more efficient.Look at the Euro guys…..BMW new E92 M3 has a 4.0 litre V8 and puts out 307 kws.
Stroke is too long in the Boss thats the problem ,it makes all its grunt mid range and up. Even if they use the V10 their still going to have the same problem {cause its the same block just 2 cylinders cut off it!} as they have now
unless they put better rods and pistons in it to let it rev more and change the cam shafts so they make their grunt lower down.The heads are meant to be real good and flow fabulously .So I am sure that none of us would complain about spending a couple of extra grand on the car if they can seriously extract more grunt out of it. Stop pussy footing around bloody cost and give us real performance enthusists what we want.
What Ford need to do is listen to the Racers who extract more grunt out of them than they do! You listening Rod Barret…….I don’t want a blown HO
BK what makes you think the new GT will be 325 kws babe?
Bavarian Missile, you actually know what it will be? :D
Seen the new falcon today on Latrobe Terrace at about 1pm today in Geelong with no camoflague on it. Must have been one of those XR vehicles from You Yangs test track from Lara. It was headin towards the Great Ocean road. Looks good from what i seen and im glad i live in Geelong cause i get to see all the new fords before all you guys do. I used to work and Fords proving grounds in geelong and i still got a few mates down there that know a lot about the new falcon. 5 star rating and 325 Kw does sound good.
Took holden 35 years to make 300 kw engines. Now that is funny.
Ford Falcons from EA to BFII to FG have a NATIVE inline six engine that has been specifically designed for their chasis, at least as far as the engine bay goes.
Other cars such as Magna 380 , Commodore , Aurion , Camry have global modular engines used in a few other models of cars.
Speaking of Ford Territory its basically a Falcon BA on different suspension and its like a car therefore the I6 fits well and is reliable that way.
No car out there with NO native engine in it will ever last as long as a car with the NATIVE engine.
PS: how does this sound like???
an old EBII Falcon S pack “technically an GLi EB” beating a 204kW RAV4???
where did its 204kW go??? vs 148kW??? hmm … it must have been a fake 4WD? right??? like a Honda CRV??? right???
its 100% frontwheel drive and then sometimes where traction is needed its a RWD??? haha which never actually gets engaged unless you’re in mud.
a tall car like RAW4 with 200kW FWD at 99% of the time is a bad combination.
It gets hummiliated by a local shit box Falcon EA with 750000ks on the clock.
;) or an old heap of crap VN V8 buick powered commodore with bare 160Hp.
PS:
speaking of a new FG GT.
whether its 325kW or 350kW
you will still be able to beat the driver in the 350kW GT with an old 2003 GT that makes 290kW.
because at the end of the day the FG GT would have to have 400-450kW to be able to GET AWAY from the old 290kW at the flywheel GT BA.
;) get my point?
Or how does this sound like dudes!
A friend of mine bought an old EF Taxi with 830000ks on the clock.
Lucky the car had a brand new gearbox replaced like 3 months before it was being retired.
He got it for $400 at the auction.
we just changed the oil , sparks , cheapest new tyres we could find and two front shockers.
the disk brakes were almost new , probably replaced a few years ago.
we took it to drags and it did 115.8s flat , thats a 4 speed auto , we beaten Astra 2.0 Turbo by 1.5 seconds.
How does that sound like? for a car that came with rego and everything for $400 and just $150 was invested to get it up to scratch.
??? the engine block , head , cylinder head , valves , cam , crank pistons , con rods , even the alternator including the waterpump where all genuine 830000kms
i’d like to see a Toyota do that? or a Holden do that?
its a joke.
Ford really is the best.
its a shame to see an old Ex taxi beat a VE SV6 that was also chipped and with extractors by 0.5 seconds.
yes a $40000 car with extra $5000 of mods beaten by a $400 piece of crap with all stock parts with just 157kW or as we got the reading it was 150kW due to the problems with the 6th cylinder closer to the body of a car “it had bad compression”
?????????????????????? i’d like someone to explain that to me?
lmao i know you can not … why? because i just did … Its Ford its INLINE SIX. Its the best;)
Hahahaha 200kw Rav6 beaten by 150kw EA…. Sam/BF/BA/Steven pull your head out of your ar*se and stop making false claims.
I’ve seen a Lexus IS400 bein beaten by a stock VT Commodore S pack manual.
R.C
There is something you dont acknowledge TP , you dont know enough how the power is put to the ground.
You can not take a 4WD, a car with a high drag coefficient and compare it to a vehicle that is a large family car witha larger engine therefore naturally occuring smoother power and torque delivery.
Therefore a RAW4 which i have driven both the 2.4 and 3.5 hit the wall after 120km/h and take ages to reach 150km/h
in that time a stock EA with carby simply disappears infront of it by anywhere between 1 to 5km
get it/??
you can not compare a JEEP type of a car with a SEDAN.
a sedan which is rearwheel driven with 3.9Litres or 4Litres that are simply in different technology. That is V6 vs I6.
Where the I6 is better;)
And yes … a stock 165kW Commodore 5.0Litre V8 beats a 200kW Aurion any day.
go out on the street and see it for yourself.
try a highway … trya small street and see how an old 304ci beats a crappy rice burner 3.5 with thrashed 200kW.
And if you didnt know there is at least 250kW under the 5Litres of a 5.0L 304ci
de-tuned to 165kW;) just like all Ford cars;)
get it???
an old VL that makes just 122kW is quicker than 200kW Aurion.
I know that its the fact;) therefore TP please dont make false comments;)
There is also something that TP doesnt know about.
And that is “TORQUE”
T = F x S get it dude????
its not all about the power , in this case in crappy Asian cars that need to be revved very hard to extract what they’ve got.
Bring me a Skyline GT-R Twin Turbo 3.5L then we’ll talk about and i’ll shut up;)
and again you can just buy an old BA XR8 for $15000 and invest $5000 in to a Capa Supercharged and get 460kW/700-800Nm easy on stock transmission and beat the $100000 Skyline.
Or get an old 2003 BA XT , invest $5000 and get it to 350kW easy, intercool it to go over 600Nm how about that???
+ it will last you for ever , it wont break down;) like V6 powered toys;)
ps:
Ford F-150 LIGHTING 5.4Litre 3V supercharged beats a 241kW Aurion and its a truck.
it beats a C300 SRT too ;) and the JEEP SRT as well;)
not to mention another few cars that have more power
but less torque;)
610Nm at 3250rom … heavy duty drive train perfect gearing , a truck like vehicle and it beats cars with 30-50kW more + cars…. but whom lack 5-100Nm less torque;)
get it:)
284kW/610Nm beats 320-350kW cars;) with less than 570Nm of torque;) get it??
correction:
50-100Nm not 5-100Nm.
Well said Sam……but that won’t shut him up.
Hey Sam looks like you fighting this Thread and me the other on TP ……hes relentless.
You actually agree with this idiot BM? That a 122kW VL is faster than an Aurion? And “a stock 130kW VR Commodore RWD “crappy old buick” oil burner the worst engine ever …. can easily overtake a 200kW Aurion on the highway or roll start acceleration”
It’s just BFII’s sh*t all over again.
Hey Jbot…no not all of it.
Just the kws torque thing….you can’t confuse the 2.
Its been tested and proven on strips that an Aurion does 0-100 in 6.6-6.9 and the 1/4 mile in 14.5-14.7, Motor mag got 6.8/14.7 They even quoted the XR6T ute a similar time with i think .1 slower in the quart.
If any of the cars above, please mention the 0-100 and quart respectively in your arguments, simply saying “my mates beaten so and so, and when ive tested its blah blah” things get biased too easily. Theres more factors than the engine power/torque to conclude one car is faster than the other.
even the REAR-WHEEL DRIVE 1996 Toyota Supra with just 3.0Litre INLINE SIX with only 165kW and 305Nm beats a 200kW Frontwheel drive Aurion and a 241kW TRD.
its the fact … you can all go and re-educate your selves.
Jbot… what are you on about seriously.
Yes the old 122kW VL 5.0Litre Calais is quicker than a 200kW AURION and 241kW TRD
and even quicker on the race track;)
its REARWHEEL DRIVE;) better control , smoother power delivery and smaller cycle , less internal engine velocity.
At the end of the day the old old old VTII 5.7Litre GENIII eats both of those Aurion cars for breakfast;)
its a shame that a 12 year old Naturally aspirated Supra RWD beats a 241kW TRD;)
its the fact … go check it yourself;)
you can never compare a large slugish and slow frontwheel drive car to a similar RWD car with a lot more torque;)
BUY FORD;) FG FALCON;) even the old BA…. better option would be a 2nd hand Fairmont Ghia 2002-2004 with 5.4L and leather;)
that thing is better than any FWD crap propaganda waste of money;)
TORQUE wins
I’d rather drive a 2003 Fairmont 5.4L V8 than a brand new TRD Aurion with close gears that revves its gutts out on the high way;)
i’d rather get a car for $14950 with a V8 , leather , sun roof , 220kW and 472Nm … thats 72Nm more than TRD … its a V8 it lasts longer … it wont over heat;)
and it will travell Australia 10x over and over;)
get it????????? $14000-15000 you get a 2nd Fairmont Ghia , its a better buy and a better luxury car that simply eats all those little FWD try hards to lunch;)
what is better???
an old “i’d say still NEW”
BA FALCON “FAIRMONT GHIA 2003″ V8 5.4L 220kW@4750rpm/472Nm@3250rpm
leather seats , 11 speaker premium sound , sun roof , LSD , leather ,Sat Nav , 4 speed Aussie auto sports shift, RWD.
For $15000
than a crappy overrated propaganda established slow slugish Aurion TRD?
241kW@6400rpm and just 400Nm at 4000rpm ??? + its FWD??? its just 150kg lighter?? but its FWD? for what? $45000-50000????
i mean you people are crazy if youthink that the FWD is better than RWD;)
I can get a freaking G220 or G8 and get a better package , more reliability and an overall stronger car;)
dude;)
i know people with a G220 whom have not changed the oil since late 2004 and it still goes better than any SIX or V8 on the market dude;)
Lets take the crappy V6 FWD on the road and see what it does in real life;)
leave the magazines and propaganda filled sites alone.
Even an old Cressida 140kW beats a 200kW Aurion FWD , because Cressida is RWD and simply applies the force at the better spot than a FWD
get it trough your heads … ps: Jbot is not a real user , he is a fake.
Dude what factors? the mass? the wind resistance? the power loss?
dude wake up … FWD can never compete against the RWD.
i had my foot all the way to the floor on the 200kW V6 and it couldnt make less than 8 seconds.
Get over it dudes……. over it!!!
a stock XR6T does less than 14.5 , late 13s in real life;) dude!!!!!!!!!!!!
you’re being objective and biased;)
OKAY I AGREE!! WITH YOU SAM!
Dont quote Motors or WHEELS TIMES for 1/4 mile runs,especially with Fords.Ford have a habit of giving no ks press cars so its jernos, I know the difference in what times a BA GT in 2003 that was given a 14.2 from memory depending who you read some more,and an actual run down the quarter 13.5 was what we got STOCK after 5000 ks . Makes you wonder sometimes if they can drive ha!
I told ya dude…….Cressida/Supra all N/A models beat 200kW or stronger FWD cars.
Even the Chev Impala would lose against the stock Falcon BA I6 XT.
get it??????
Magazines ,Media , News papers are all paid by manufacturers to promote their products.
You have to seperate the facts from the truth.
I will say it once more.
Dont read that crap and dont take them for word.
Eg: Holden Commodore Australias 1st chouce = FALSE
EG: Toyota Australias 1st choice? = Na not really.
FORD FALCON LOSES CAR SALES??? = FALSE
every 2nd car is a Ford Falcon ;) get it???? there are more Falcons on the road in Australia than any other brand:)
the 290kW GT does late 13s , Typhoon F6 13.5 or less “100s of people have told me that over the last 6 years.
Propaganda is Propaganda , everybody is gona boast about thier things…. of course.
But take the real life test and see for yourself that Ford Falcon is a much better car to drive with character and the real large car presence on the road.
Nothing beats a big Aussie SIX and the USA Mustang derrived V8 “again both Fords”
Ford rules.
^^^^^^^^Wrong! Not with their V8′s,performance and resale!
^^^^^^^^And i would like to see facts if every 2nd car on the road is a falcon, because i highly dought it!
Why did you come back BFII/Sam/Steven/anymore?? Oh, and we should all take Sam’s results as fact, as he’s a much more reliable and accurate source, and a far better driver than any motoring journalist. The Falcon is getting smashed in sales atm, don’t kid yourself. Yes its a good car, and the FG will be better, but your shitty old taxis cannot beat an Aurion like you say. And if you can only get 8s for 0-100km/h in an Aurion you can’t drive.
“Jbot is not a real user , he is a fake.”
Mind explaning that to me?
And there is no disputing the fact that in sales the Commodore is No.1, Toyota is No.1 overall, and the Falcon is struggling. Duck is also correct in saying that the HSVs are better than the FPVs, but lets hope that changes with the FG!
“OKAY I AGREE!! WITH YOU SAM!”
Whoever used my Name with that reply, thats pathetic, grow up.
When you look at cars theres factors e.g. such as Gearing, powerband, yes powerloss from crank to the hubs.
When your talking about ‘faster’ with ‘these’ level of power (not 250kw +), regardless being FWD/RWD doesnt come to affect yet.
Agree BM, Mags can be quite off with their times, but you also have to wonder how far is it to be considered still reasonable to quote, otherwise they’ll get slapped by the Motor Co, cause its almost on the lines of defamation.
If such a problem exists in Motormag in regards to giving a real qtr/0-100, then you could flow on to other cars they tested that their not at their fastest times…, and for the Aurion’s sake, they seem to disklike the car too!
I think that none of ya know what you’re on about.
I’ve been a mechanic for 24 years and i know for the fact that FWD vehicles are the worst in the category.
re:
If you want the proof.
I actually own a Nissan Maxima V6 3.5 FWD.
I also own a AU1 Falcon 4.0 RWD with 347000km on it. Its falling apart, the solenoids in the auto dont work well and i have no time to fix it. The last oil change was at 310000km.
the AU1 shits all over the Maxima in every way every day. It reaches 150 or 180 any time you want it. Just press it and there it goes. A lot faster than Maxima that also has 20kW or so more power.
please get over the arguments.
There aint such a thing as defamation, the facts need to be seperated from the truth.
Because 2+2=4 and will always be 4. If some fag out there starts his philosophy and imposes his biased view theory on ya, dont listen to him , because he will never be able to make you think that 2+2 = 5.
Just ignore the TV , Radio , Magazines. Check it out for yourself.
get it?
Just because he’s brainwashed “as above people have said” , just because he likes the looks of a car. The interior/exterior.
Doesnt mean that a car is fast or reliable or as tough as a similar brand. Okay smaller 4 cylinder FWD cars might be reliable but larger ones “no way”
Think about it. Which cars do you see very often… Holdens or Fords?
I see more Holdens in my service than Fords.
end of story.
What are ya talking about Jbot?
a stock 220kW Barra XT V8 5.4 keeps up with the 307kW HSV? what is wrong with ya , are you so ignorant and sad???
Didnt i tell ya that the HSV driver will always see that G220 or G8 or SR in the rearview mirror.
The HSV will simply never be able to GET AWAY that easy from a stock underrated 220kW 3V 5.4L.
You people are gone mad.
My cousin owns a 2003 XR8 5 speed. And that thing simply keeps up with a freaking 307kW HSV.
The HSVs 307kW where are they? where did they go? when a 260kW stock XR8 just rides along next to it on the highway at 200km/h+ and the HSV simply cant GET AWAY!!! OR MOVE AWAY FROM IT????????????????
answer that question to me Jbot? , the windows were wide open and we could hear the HSV engine revve really hard along with XR8s engine.
HSV 2007 GTS VE couldnt get away from a XR8 BA Falcon 2003.
why????????????? NO the driver in HSV was trying really hard.
He did win by 1 car lenght on take off. Of course 260kW vs 307kW 500Nm vs 550Nm
but seriously???????????????????????? dude…. Ford technology all the way.
Take a look at the V8 utes… a 5.4L DOHC vs 6.0L pushrod.
and the Utes make at least 10-15% more power and torque.
And the Ford wins 9/10 times???? why????
simply proves that its up to a driver.
;)
at the end of the day ex-Taxi Ba Falcon with 560000ks on the clock is better than a brand new 200kW Aurion.
;)its RWD , it has over 50Nm more torque , the engine is 500cc bigger.
Its more reliable , smoother , quieter , larger;)
It accelerates a lot better , overtakes a lot better than Aurion.
In fact i know people who own Aurions from work , and they are disappointed in “OVERTAKING” other cars.
Being beaten by some P-plater in his VR lowered try hard shit box commodore;)
i guess Jbot is too low up his mind to understand what i am on about;)
wa hahahahahahahahaahahahhaha
So you’re using Rob as a name too now Sam? And saying its purely up to the driver DESTROYS your own argument… Nice work mate.
No comeback?
Quote Sam: “simply proves that its up to a driver”
- worse thing you could have said when you are trying to make people believe your “real world” tests “prove” that Car A is faster than Car B. LOL
Why the hell hasnt this guy been banned… its beyond a joke, the claims he is making are just ridiculous. Joober and Jbot Im beginning to think he is just fishing for responses, no one could be this thick?
BM, its fitting you agree with BF, both thick as two bricks put together.
Can you lay bricks….only way you might get laid
Next new falcon in 2010 is gonna be the BK falcon named after me. I will be world famous then. Im still waiting for the VD Holden now thats gonna be funny. Anybody in here got VD.
did any of you guys actually notice that “sam has claimed he has been hearing certain times from typhoons for 6 years?
the typhoon aint that old sorry. try around 4yrs!!!
ive said it before and ill say it again.
some of what this guys says does hold some truth and the other half seems to be exaggeration
BK,
i was waiting for the “VW” commodore where for the special editions they would put the motor in the boot ha ha ha ha
How am I thick TP ? I would like to know?
Andrew,
Hes like a fanatical preacher, goes on and on,
…Or maybe he is a new form of spambot… ITS the future here!
ps: no it doesnt destroy my argument because i have heavier proof which is that a FWD car doesnt belong to the league of a RWD , therefore its not entirely up to a driver. As i said before i’ve driven an Aurion 200kW and i tried to catch my old AUII Forte which a friend of mine was driving , he was always 2 car lenghts infront of me , i could never NEVER overtake him with FWD and 200kW under the hood , what ever i tried he was always leading by 2-3 car lenghts and on take off by 1 full car lenght and may be 50cm extra??? GET I????? GET OVER IT!
The galable “general” public will always be naive and go for the FRONT WHEEL DRIVE car.
With out knowing anything specific or technical.
We all know that INLINE SIX engines do LESS work than V6 or F6 “FLat six engines” … the internal velocity is lower , there is more torque , no need for long stroke or wider cylinder bores.
The Inline six technology is simply better “NATURALLY”
And to add to all that.
Any person would be crazy to think that a 240kW/400Nm Aurion TRD is faster and better than a say stock 2003-2007 Fairmont Ghia 220kW/472Nm or spec2 230kW/500Nm with ZF 6 speed auto.
I mean , the Falcon is a real car. From EF to AUIII , from BA to BFII , and now FG.
If you want to get a real car , get a Ford Falcon Fairmont Ghia BFII or at least the older BA Fairmont or Ghia model with a V8 , its quieter than I6 ,it has a lot more torque , it uses less fuel when driven with car , and its one full second to 1.5 seconds faster than a 182/190/195kW I6.
And at the end of the day you get a bang for your buck , a much more reliable car with a great engine 5.4Litres.
Some people are mad to think that a car such as a 3.5Litre Aurion and TRD Aurion are better/stronger than a car with a whole 1.95Litres larger engine.
Thats almost 2Litre larger engine.
Thats 5408cc V8 vs a small 3456cc v6 engine. , thats 1952cc more in the Fairmont/Fairmont Ghia /G220/G8/Fairlane , i mean seriously!!!!
I mean wake up people HELLO HELLO HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just think about it … 5.4L and just 220kW ???
That engine is doing NO WORK , it just sits there at 1500rpm at 90km/h in 4th , just sits there at 1700rpm at 100km/h in 4th , pulling a trailer along the way with no performance hit , making close to 500Nm at just 1700rpm.
I mean isnt that better??? + its rear-wheel-drive.
Lets be serious.
I’d rather buy an XR8 Falcon BA 2003-2004 260kW 5.4L DOHC for $19999 rather than spend money on something a lot more inferior and less reliable.
Lets get real here.
220kW at 4750rpm , 230kW at 5350rpm
massive 472Nm from 3250rpm to 4000rpm
massive 500Nm from 2750rpm to 3500rpm
i mean lets get real here;)
Its better to have a larger engine with an average amount of usable power , and a large quantity of “native torque to the engine”
rather than a small V6 which is hard tuned and then fine tuned to make 200kW barely touching 336Nm + at very high RPM???
i mean seriously.
I’ve seen people smoke V6 and I6 Commodores and Falcons and old V8 Commodores up to a GENIII with 285kW with a 220kW Barra 220/230 engine.
This is the fact.
THE FACT , NOT MY OPINION.
END OF DISCUSSION!!!
and ps: a Fairmont Ghia BFII 5.4Litre does just 1500rpm at 120km/h in 6th , the engine is simply sleeping doing no work at all , i’d like to see $500000 cars do that;)
i think NOT.
;)
And who are you TP? i mean go to sleep dude!
who are you to say and ask a question to BM??
i mean why dont you just leave???
Who do you think you are TP?
you’re making fake comments that not a single law of physics actually supports!
Yes Aurion is an attractive car , but for who? for galable “as Sam said” well said ! , for galable public!
i am laughing here!
I see Ron C and Sam spell “gullible” the same way.
ps: What Joober wrote to Andew
“Hes like a fanatical preacher, goes on and on,
…Or maybe he is a new form of spambot… ITS the future here!
”
Anybody who things that the following cars are better than a EF,EL,AU,BA,BF,FG Falcons with a 4.0Litre OHC and DOHC engines are crazy.
Nissan Maxima 3.5 V6
Toyota Aurion 3.5 V6
Mitsubishy Magna 3.8 V6
Holden Commodore 3.6 V6
Chrysler 300 3.5L V6
Dodge Nitro 4.0L V6
I mean you people got to be sick in your mind to think that the cars above are better than any Falcon from EF to BFII to FG.
i mean thats just crazy !!!!!!!!!!!
Joober you have no clue or any idea what you’re on about in your life!
;) dude take a chill pill , contact your local psychologis or my suggestion would be to talk to your psychiatrist and then come back and face the facts and the reality you live in;)
Watto_Cobra dude …. there are a few ways to spell that word.
Dont act as if you’ve collected the knowledge of the whole world
;) Gullible or Galable its the same meaning “stupid and naive people” can be called “Gullible or Galable”
get over it.
Mate, I’m a Ford fan and will be buying an FG. I just don’t see why you need so many different names.
I bet holden where really thinkin of callin the VE commydore VD commodore. I would have pissed myself laughing if they did. All of the production workers at Holden have VD anyway so that makes up for it. WRXsti sounds like another disease by subaru.
BK … that shows the intelligence of Fordson buyers. To quote a journalist, ” Brand specific buyers are like your dog, terribly loyal but not too bright”. I rest my case.
Actually taking another look at the picks they will able to talk about the Falcon Legacy as thats whats its looks like, a cross between a Falcon and a Subaru Legacy. Its a bit gay really but that would suit Ford buyers.
galable is not a word…. although it is probably still the smartest thing Sam/Ron C/BFII/etc has said!
Brian, please don’t lump us all in the same basket.
Brian, ”Brand specific buyers are like your dog, terribly loyal but not too bright” would describe your average Daewoo sourced Holden and Corolla buyer perfectly.
This is a forum on Falcon and it automatically brings up v’s Commodore because thats what its all about. Holdens four cyl lineup has a dubious history at best, the only real Holden is the Commodore and right now they are the top of the tree, have been for years and this new Falcon will be no threat. Its like Ford Oz have lost the spunk to design something that Oz and NZ will love, its way too pastel and already last years design. I’ve seen the launch video and I’m thinking ‘come on Ford, do something’! They need to get real and have the nuts to build a car that will be a show stopper but it may already be too late as this one is so ‘cream and cheese’ its not funny.
Its been said, NZ is a proving ground for cars, you can drop a dud into the States and it will sell as the market is so big it will soak it up but down here we will spit it out and it won’t survive. You need to get it right to sell it here if thats your main market. I think Ford need to do a lot more than they have to impress the buying public that theirs is the car as already lots of people I know are ho hum about it and its not even here yet.
So in closing, my money is on Commodore to retain the top spot even though the press are saying small cars are taking over (funny how Commodore, big car, is still #1 while they say that). I hope the Falcon goes well as it needs to and we need to have it and maybe next time they will pull that show stopper out but in the meantime, down here, Holden is pulling the right strings and will continue to as there is new and even better stuff coming. As for Holdens four cyl lineup, who cares, no ones that passionate about Corolla are they, goes to show you can even sell a weetbix box on wheels.
I don’t mind saying , I did find the comment about the VW Commodore and the engine in the back very funny. For the rest, you’re obviously a bunch of wankers with nothing better to do than write crap here. You should just go and buy a Falcon, you deserve each other.
I love Fords they build the best cars in Australia, Holden on the other hand doesn’t mean very much here, too many rebadged Daewoos, recalls, warranty problems, rust, customer service is crap, look terrible, copied and boring designs, etc etc……..
I HATE HOLDEN AND THIER BOMMODORES !!!!!!!!!!!
I have a Toyota Soarer V8 4.0Litre which i bought imported from Japan in 1999 , its a 1994 model. Just under 200kW , it has 234500ks on ODO now, and its 1-full second faster than my cousins Aurion sx6 V6. I smoke him any day, we tried it , i bet him at the traffic lights each and every time up to 2 car lenghts away ,simply driving away from Aurion. Thats what i call old Toyota RWD technology vs new FWD stuff. 4.0Litre Soarer V8 with over 200000km on clock beats a brand new Aurion SX6 with just 4000km on the clock! , come on lets be real … Aurion is FWD it has just 5kW more than V8 Soarer , and like 50Nm less torque + its FWD , wake up you all!
ps: Holden as many say = HOLES , OIL LEAKS , DENTS , ENGINE NOISE , as many mentioned before THEY ARE SIMPLY NOT AS RELIABLE AS FORDS!
Ford Australia and Ford America with their Crown Victoria and Falcon have created an icon , the most comfortable , smoothest and most reliable vehicles on earth!
ps: i’ve heard dozens say that Holden is not Aussie and has nothing to do with Australia?
ps: Holden Captiva? 20% more fuel effecient than Territory?
yes it is , but its 40% weaker , it has 10-15% less torque , 50% slower responce. Its 5 seconds slower 0-100km/h and it doesnt have the TAXABLE horse power as TERRITORY based on a BA/BF Falcon arthitecture.
So therefore. Ford is Ford.
We dont rebadge our cars;) eg: Daewoo , Chev , Buick , Opel , Vauxhall.
I think its time for ya all to know that none of their cars were designed here anyways.
While a Falcon was;) Laser was , Capri was … and no Capri is not Mazda 323 , its the Ford design in the 1st place.
Astra , Vectra , Commodore , Camira , Barina , Captiva , Epica , Rodeo , Gemini , Viva , Elfin and various concept cars.
They are all sweet , beautiful , nice , quick and cheap/reliable in a way. But none are Australian designed.
Ford Falcon and few other smaller models are;)
End of Story!
ps: Soarer V8 with 230000ks on the clock beats a brand new Aurion V6.
Carl
Holden bring out the VD commodore so we can all laugh
BK , GK , LA LA COMMODORE????
come on dude! what ever they bring out , sure its gona be new , flashy and cool , but i am sure that their V6es are gona be crap unless they TWIN TURBO THEM
;)
at the end of the day the only Commodore attractive to a Ford man like me would be a VEII SS 6.2Litre , but then whats the use???? when i can wait and get a HSV 7.0Litre???
LS7?
you see …. BK , EK , DD , OOPPP , what ever you wanna call it … those names mean nothing.
We know that its not a Commodore , its a Chevrolet Corvette ;)
thats end of the story.
Ford Falcon all the way , ps: a stock BA 182kW ex taxi beats a brand new 195kW SV6 ? so?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
someone told me that a new FG Falcon base line 4.0Litre SIX makes 205kW/420Nm on RON98 petrol? while having the usual 195kW/391Nm on RON91 , 198kW/409Nm on RON95?
take care ya holden dudes , when you can match the Ford Falcon I6 torque then come and laugh;)
ps: run your SV6 195kW on RON91 and you soon get under 190kW and well under 340Nm. It needs premium PULP to run 195kW
ps: XR8 BA/BF 2002-2008 make over 280kW on RON98 and over 530Nm vs VE SS 6.0L that makes 270kW/530Nm on RON98 and a lot less on REGULAR RON91.
Ford wins by default. “in real life as well”
;) end of story.
EB XR6 easily shit all over VE SV6
HSV 7 litre no match for Fords supercharged quadcam 5.4litre. Cant wait for the supercharged Ford 5.8 and 6.2 litre. Its bye bye once again to HSV cause the BOSS is the Boss here. Its time once again for Fords V8s to kill em all and give the current Ford 4 litre a rest after its been eating holden V8s for a long time.
Crown Victoria is the most reliable car in the world? I didn\’t know that!!!!!!
MMM…
Go Jamie Whincup and Ford both by far the best combination, he will win the V8 supercar championship as long as he stays on the race track……..
At least Ford had a better start to this season than last season. Ford will win 2008 V8 Supercars if coldbottom, wincup and lowndes keep at the top.
Ford Couriers and Rangers are ‘built Ford tough’ made by MAZDA. What the @#%*! are you talking about not rebadging stuff.
Fords lose, are # 1 in nothing and are problematic pieces of junk, just take a cruise around a Ford workshop any day of the week.
Hmmm….. All this talk of V8 supercars, Toymotors etc,etc.
Irrelevant. My NL 4l Fairlane is 10 years this year, just gone over 515000ks and as smooth and clean as the day it rolled off the line (yes, I bought it new). Talk of people buying a new car every 2 – 3 years???? Who the f…. can afford that? Smart move for the environment too. If we can’t pollute quick enuf with fossil fuel we’ll wreck the plastic we buy every 2 -3 years and push it into landfill.
If the vehicle is not up to lasting it’s not worth the money paid. At 55 I’ve had 4 cars, one ’68 XT wagon for 10 years, one ’71 XY GS Fairmont, still in my garage, one VB Commodore which got sold after replacing the engine at 6 months because the oil pump failed and seized the engine, in the country as well thanks, and lastly my ’98 NL Fairlane as previously mentioned. Curious thing about the VB is the same thing happened on three cars I know of, one of them being my parents when they bought one after misleading them into buying Holden.
Experience has proven Ford has ALWAYS built a better car an GMH, barr perhaps the AU Models. Lap times…irrelevant, 1/4 miles…irrelevant…..kw output…irrelevant. Don’t talk about cars tricked up to do this or do that. A car is designed as production and thats how it should be evaluated.
2 days a a friend of mine rang me in a bad mood. He is a working mechanic with his own Holden repair business and was cursing coz he couldn’t put a serpentine belt on a BA Falcon and wanted me to help. He said Holdens were easy coz they had a drawing to show how it went. When I got there I lifted the bonnet he had slammed, pointed to the sticker on the hood with the belt path and put the belt on in 2 minutes. Now I don’t like speaking ill of people, but bloody Holden people haven’t a clue.
Now the GMH people can go to town on me, and I’ll just sit back and laugh at you clowns with more money than brains.
One thought:
H_ope
O_ur
L_uck
D_oesn’t
E_nd
N_ow
1111
1111 Thats how many commodore ss sportwagons are going to get a recall
What Ford really need is a 3.3L V6 diesel with 200kw/600Nm hooked up to the ZF 8HP 8 speed auto, with the option of a 4.4L V8 diesel with 260kw/800Nm. The ZF 8HP and 6HP can take up to 850Nm. Those engine sizes and power/torque specs i gave are consistant with 5th generation common rail diesel technology and Ford’s “Lion” diesel development.
Alex whilst its not impossible to get 200kw out of an engine that size but that is in BMW territory. Their 335 diesel at 3.0lit twin turbo produces 295kw. Given that Ford are not exactly leaders in diesel engines (they buy in PSA group engines for Euro cars) its very unlikely. But i do agreed with your point.
325kw and 560Nm of torque for new GT sounds good for me
310kw and 575nm of torque for typhoon sounds even better.
Not far behind a 7 litre Pontiac or is it a daewoo
New falcon GTHO wont have a problem in being Australia fastests production car.
Recently went for a second job interview and got the job,found out company car was a brand new ford orion- said oh well -bummer- i’ll have to think about it then, interviewer said yeah well,I know, we used to all have holdens, but fords are cheaper.why? cause even a sissy girl like me knows that Holdens are the true aussie car and the best, they bought the vauxhall dealerships out and a legend was born in our beaut country, Not just another American pretender trying to swamp our heritage.In my opinion, Fords were just allowed to exist here to keep idiots out of Holdens – of course that is just my opinion and I hope that it doesn’t offend any of you Ford loving idiots who post on this site, but so be it.I’m keepin my commodore and will enjoy it on weekends, an use the new ford for work-see they’re so ugly you can get a free one.
But honestly people, both ford and holden are just big business competing against each other for your hard earned bucks, so that they make obscene profits, when the profit falls- lay off the workers and close the factory.I dont believe that fords are as Dinky di as Holdens are as they were concieved,concepted and built for the conditions in ur country, not america.
F ix F ound
O r O n
R eplace R ubbish
D aily D ump
Suzi,
You are just so wrong it begs the question, are you only fishing for comments?
Holden this year are celebrating 60 yrs.
Ford have been around in Australia since 1904, and have been building cars in this country since 1925, some 83 yrs.
The falcon is far more Australian than Commodre (including VE) has ever been.
The Falcon has been built and designed in australia for over 35 years, the Commodore has been always been a modified Opel platform, until VE, which is based on GM’s new global platform (designed in Australia for GM’s world market, not specifically for Australia).
The rest of your comments are just BIASED OPINION and don’t warrant a reply!
an old 165kW Fairmont V8 5.0L 1995, beats a 200kw Aurion and a 195kW FG Falcon!, weird?
Ford Couriers and Rangers are ‘built Ford tough’ made by MAZDA
What are you on about dude, i have to correct you, and Mazda is owned by Ford, by the way what you just wrote is a lie, its incorrect and fake, Ford Courier and Rangers are FORDS, with variants badged as MAZDA, its like a Commodore and a Lexen , same car literally, but in essence its a GM/HOLDEN piece of crap!
GO FORD!
Cressida 7mge = great NA Inline 6 engine. Beaten a lot of cars with.
source: I OWN ONE!
FORD FALCON 4.0LITER INLINE SIX 6 ALL THE WAY!