Car Advice

2009 Honda Legend Review & Road Test

HONDA LEGEND

Pros: Space; Comfort; Handling; Innovation; Safety

Cons: In-dash screen position; Fuel Economy; Key

By Matt Brogan |
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Price: $29,160 to $46,320

Our Rating:  

2009 Honda Legend Review & Road Test

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The Honda Legend has rewritten my most revered list

Model Tested:

  • 2009 Honda Legend SH-AWD; 3.7-litre V6; five-speed automatic; sedan – $79,990 (RRP)

CarAdvice Rating: rating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gifrating_half.GIF

- by Rose Harris

There was once a time when I thought Michael Clarke was the only hero of my generation worth the Legend status… and then I spent a week with the Honda Legend and rewrote my most revered list.
I have often felt luxury car makers leave out the family functionality and get carried away with the fancy additions which only cause more stress when children are involved.

But here I stand, eating a large slice of humble pie after enjoying every minute of my week with the Honda Legend.

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Honda has managed to successfully combine extreme style and comfort, opulence and convenience while never compromising on safety and offer a car which has every member of the family in mind, from Grandma through to the baby.

In reviewing the Legend, I was prepared to put the family needs aside, think large disposable income and take it on its luxury merits, but I didn’t need to.

The Honda Legend is designed for family and marital bliss. My children slept the most soundly they ever have on a long trip and with in-built GPS and individual climate control, there was barely a car-related disagreement between my husband and I.

I was constantly surprised with the clever ideas I would find every time I sat in the luxurious armchair of a driver’s seat.

Unfortunately Honda suffers through their badge. There are plenty of buyers in the luxury car market who won’t look past the embossed H on the grille.

Driving the Legend, I would get that raised eyebrow confused response “Honda? I wouldn’t spend that much on a Honda.”  It is a shame Honda suffers from this badge snobbery.

Me? I felt relieved driving a Honda as I didn’t have to carry around that ‘high-class marque’ attitude I so often see in the soccer carpark, yet was still driving a car with class and luxury to rival many others.

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The SH-AWD (Super Handling All Wheel Drive) feels as if the car is anchored to tracks on the road and its sole purpose is to get occupants from A to B safely, no matter what the elements or road conditions may be.

It almost did this too well, to the point that at times I had to remember I was in control of this car and I did still have to steer - it wasn’t quite in auto-pilot.

The SH-AWD system distributes power not only between the front and rear wheels, but also between the left and right wheels.  A multifunctional LCD display below the instrument panel has an option to indicate which wheels are taking the most power as you drive.

Driving however, is up to the pilot, I mean driver.  In full automatic mode with cruise control on, automatic headlights and rain-sensing wipers activated, all that’s left for the driver to concentrate on is where they are going.

But by the same token, the Legend has a five-speed sequential shift as well as steering wheel-mounted paddleshifts which mean fun can be injected into your driving experience whenever you desire.

The 3.7-litre SOHC VTEC V6 engine is the most powerful Honda has ever built. Delivering 226kW at 6,300rpm, an exciting drive experience is ready for the taking.

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And it is fun, I found the paddleshift easy to use and a great way to get the most out of what is hiding under the bonnet. The paddles move with the wheel which means they are always at your fingertips.

With the SH-AWD, I always felt in control of the power and didn’t get that overwhelming feeling that I had bitten off more than I could chew.

I am not an out-and-out revhead, but I have to say that everytime the Legend would roar up to the speed limit and I would then hit the cruise control ‘set’ button, I felt like I was cheating the car out of something.

Now let’s talk interior. The Legend did, of course, have a leather interior. I would usually be cursing the luxuriousness with visions of chocolate-smothered fingers and spilt milk.

But this was somehow different, the leather was so soft and the seats could have passed for massage chairs, legroom has to be seen to be believed and the myriad of buttons to electronically adjust comfort meant that my gripe about leather was a distant thought.

I will say this though, the light grey colour of the interior is easily dirtied, the top of the front armrest and frequently used areas were beginning to look a little grubby by the end of the week.  I’d opt for a darker colour.

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To add to the marital bliss this car promotes, the driver’s seat has a programmable memory for two present positions. No more amputating kneecaps when the taller of the two goes to jump in the car.

Just open the door and press button ’1′ or ’2′ and the seat cleverly moves to your perfect position. I guess the only argument now is who is ’1′ and who is ’2′.

As the gorgeous driver’s seat welcomes your body and keys are inserted into the ignition, the steering wheel futuristically extends to meet you and retracts when the keys are removed to prevent any obstruction.

The instrument panel is clearly laid out and the feeling inside the car is like that of a relaxed loungeroom. This is no coincidence, Honda has installed Active Noise Cancellation which employs a series of microphones and speakers to detect and then cancel out engine noise by transmitting an opposite frequency within the cabin. The ride itself is silky smooth.

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Good thing the engine noise is kept to a minimum as the sound system is simply amazing.  There was not one sign of bass vibration and we had it up as loud as was bearable.  It is almost movie-theatre like and could well be as the system includes a DVD player and ten speakers.

The multifunction dash-mounted screen is also the satellite navigation system.  The guiding voice suits the calm feel of the car and there are a number of trip computer options to cycle through.

However, I couldn’t help but be annoyed by the vertical angle of the screen.  Its straight up and down nature attracted a lot of sun glare and at times I couldn’t see a thing. This is especially important as the screen doubles as a reversing camera.

When glare wasn’t an issue the camera was very effective.  Combined with rear parking sensors, it aided my reversing skills immensely.  Being such a large sedan, I don’t think it could do without these added options as the Legend takes up most of the available space in a standard car park allotment.

The screen functions are all controlled with a centre knob which can be used while driving, so no grubby fingerprints all over the screen.  It did have a bit of a delayed response when zooming in and out of the map.

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The centre armrest has a split-top-lid which opens French-door style to a felt lined compartment.  The entire top compartment also lifts up to reveal a traditional centre bin which is equipped with USB input plug.  The wood grain finish suits the styling and in-dash items such as cigarette lighter and cup holders are discreetly hidden until needed.  The front floors are illuminated with a subtle blue light as are the door handles, so there is no need for one to scramble in the dark.

In the rear, my children thought they had died and gone to heaven.  Child restraint anchors are located on the parcel shelf and are clearly labelled and easily accessed.  Two large rear vents protrude from the back of the centre front armrest to cool or warm back seat passengers in an instant.  The rear seat has a fold down centre armrest with slide-out cupholders and also reveals direct access to the boot.

Despite the many features I have listed, there is one small addition that made me fall completely head over heels for the Legend.  Rear sun blinds.  Each of the rear side windows has a clever sun blind which can be easily pulled up with an inconspicuous tab and hooked into place.  As if it couldn’t get any better, add a rear window visor which can be automatically controlled from the driver’s seat.

The power rear window visor can be put up or down using a button on the front roof, near the sunroof controls.  It also automatically retracts when reverse gear is engaged.  My children looked limo-esque as they reclined in their seats in the perfect temperature without the direct sunlight that is forever the bane of their existence, yet not a daggy window sock or suction cupped visor in sight.

For adult passengers, there are three headrests across the back – with the centre headrest right in the rear line of sight.  However, when a rear centre passenger is not a consideration, the headrest can be flipped down by pushing a button on the sunroof control panel. Also for the adult passenger, each armrest has power window control and an ashtray – even if it would be a crime to smoke in such a beautiful car.

I had many compliments on the exterior of the car.  Its modern look means it could quickly date, but the sharp lines give it a neat and sophisticated yet understated look. The twin-exhaust and elongated appearance all work in the Legend’s head-turning intriguing favour.

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The headlights are another area where Honda has done its very best to make driving purely enjoyable without restriction.  Whichever way the car turns the Active Front Lighting System enables either one of the High Intensity Discharge lights to swivel outwards to light up larger areas of road surface on bends.

Generally when you get to the higher end of the market, fuel economy is usually not so much of a concern. The Legend certainly wasn’t one of the most economical cars I have ever driven.

By my calculations it did exactly what the manufacturer estimates for a combined figure – 11.3 litres per 100km.

One thing that had me surprised was the simple nature of the key itself. It didn’t do justice to the car. Even a fob key would better reflect the nature of the Legend.

I didn’t once find I was running out of space when it came to the amazingly large boot and that was on a few days away with the kids.  One gripe I did have was I had to be mindful of the location of the DVD player so I didn’t accidently hook a bag or a bike handle on it and render it useless.  The positioning of the player could be a little more streamlined.

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The Legend I tested was fitted with a full boot liner, yet another amazing addition to make life so much easier. It was fully wipeable and easily removed for complete cleaning, and add in the floor mats which were like an actual carpet and secured to the floor with studs (meaning no getting caught on them or curling up of edges) and also fully removable, and you have a mother’s dream.

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How does it Go: rating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gif



     

    Reader reviews of the HONDA LEGEND

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    • Aussiecars

      God thats an ugly rear end!
      Besides that it sounds like a great car.

    • Bane

      well im pleased it is a better car than most think. These things depreciate like an eastern block car of old – therefore will be a great buy in 2 years time when it’s lost 60% of its value.

    • adam (aka mada)

      $80,000!?

      Too much choice in the price bracket as low sales suggest.

      have to agree that it would make a much better used vehicle purchase.

    • adam (aka mada)

      5 speed auto is shabby for such a package also.

    • Andrew M

      And people say the falcons and commodores drink too much fuel.
      I’d like to see someone else come close to them for a large vehicle, not even the wizards at Honda can do it

      And as Adam said, only a 5 speed for 80K worth???
      I’d certainly go knocking on BMW’s door for that sort of coin

    • KM

      Personally I would get a Passat CC – wouldnt think twice about it!!

      • Kukuruyuk

        You are such a volkswagen fanboy. You think that every volkswagen is better than any car on the market hence your comments on every reviews out there. You drive a volkswagen yea yea we know.

      • David

        don’t be shy, take that passat and ram it up your rear

    • lazybones

      Agree with Adam & Andrew, 80K buys you a lot of car else where these days. The Fuel enconomy for the power you get isn’t good either, very unlike Honda.

      I’m in the market for a 7 seater, I was choking at the price of the CX9!!

    • Jimbo

      KM, my mind went straight to Passat as well. $20k cheaper for almost the same package.

      Pity it reeks of old man car – My father who is 2 years off retirement loves it…Enough said!

      Nice car though!

    • Jimbo

      Sorry, correction – the Passat is $14K Cheaper.

    • Jimmy

      Yeah i can see a lot of retired managing directors driving this car around the island estates of the Gold Coast.

      I don’t get the styling, but there are definitely some admirable features. However, in saying that, there are about 10 – 15 cars between $790000 and $90000 you’d be better off buying before you bought the Legend.

    • http://CarAdvice Onepoppa

      There are quite a few of these type of cars – good cars, but not at new price.

      Think Citroens, Volvo S80, Peugeot 607 – $80K but all the dealers sell “demos” at $59,990. Also Mercedes B type diesels – At $55K+ drive away it makes your eyes water – but at $34K for a dealer exec driven CDI with under 18K km mine was a steal.

    • Buck

      Totally agree with the above posts.

      Curious styling, very modest torque of only 370nm and you have to rev the guts out of it to get that torque, (typical of Honda), antiquated five speed auto, they were serving more or less the same version of this gearbox up ten years ago, (others have moved on to six, seven and even eight speed boxes), lack of engine choice, (Merc offer a wide range of engines chocies with their new E Class for example) and so on.

      This engine is a bored out version of the 3.5 litre unit they offered up over ten years ago, and it’s quite thirsty for its relativly modest outputs.

      Honda have lost the plot and wasted far too much money on irrelevant activities like investing hundreds of millions of dollars building F1 engines over the years, and where the heck are the benifets ?

      Drive a Flacon G6ET and the performacne, especially 533nm from just 2,000 r.p.m. and 270Kw makes the price and performance of this so called “Legend” look absolutly stupid.

      This is a classic case of people being far, far better off buying the home grown product. Better still buy an FPV F6 and see what REAL power and handling is all about.

    • simon

      “the gorgeous driver’s seat welcomes your body and keys are inserted into the ignition……….”
      I almost got aroused, then I remembered its a thirsty $80K Honda.

    • gearboxdawg

      Its a nice car with the comfort and styling. 11+ Litres per 100 k sounds Honda can do more to bring it down.

      I don’t like the pointy grille.

    • nobody

      Isn’t the bmw 520d the same price?

    • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

      The front looks like an Accord and the back an FG Falcon.

      I think there is too much family resemblance with Accord for them to charge $80k for it. Most people want a bit of exclusivity for that money and being mistaken for an Accord is not what they want.

      That on its own wouldn’t put me off, but I really don’t like the front and there are much more appealing cars for that money (or considerably less) IMO.

    • quiet1

      Problem is for that price no one would buy a Honda….

    • adam (aka mada)

      Exactly.
      Honda priced the euro and US version accords very well, the legend doesn’t play the same value game at all.

      Perhaps a bigger V6, ZF 6 speed auto, diesel and more refined styling would command $80,000 plus.

    • Camski

      Actually from what I gather, the engine (possibly despite it’s fuel consumption) is actually a good one. Only that we don’t have Acura here, you’d be thinking this is a bargain. Think Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus, I know many of you tend to bag Lexus as being overpriced Toyota’s so look at the Legend from a different perspective that it’s possibly the better, more affordable option of the Acura RL.

      I see the German alternative’s mentioned and somehow I can’t disagree, the choice of a Passat CC or 520d is all too appealing however, the 520d especially, comes with absolutely nothing.

      520d = RRP AU$76,400 (inc. LCT), lets add some bits and bobs, 2.6K for Professional Pack, 2.2K for Xenon’s, $940 for adaptive headlights, 2K for metallic paint (!!!!) and three and half grand for a sunroof.

      We’re edging very close to 90,000 hard earned dollars here and because we’d all like an alarm for our shiny new Bimmer, that’s an extra grand coming to a total of $88,640. I dunno about you but at the moment, that’s just screaming badge snobbery if you’re willing to pay $88,000 for a glammed up entry level 5 Series that’s still lacking bit’s you’d get from an equivalent Lexus GS or Honda Legend.

      Still…. that (optionless) 520d is mighty tempting =)

    • Yanzo

      still looks ugly fromt he outside.

    • Damian

      Well said, Camski. However, I highly doubt that anyone in the market for a BMW would even contemplate stepping into a Honda dealership. The Legend is aimed at those who are looking at an Accord, but in reality, have a bit more cash to blow, yet, couldn’t afford a Lexus.

      Personally, I’d save myself $15k and buy a Passat 3.6FSI CC. It’s a cut price CLS350, but with all the fruit, yet, won’t cost an arm and a leg to maintain! DSG is just another added bonus…

    • Nightshifter

      Old school thirsty NA SSSSSSohc v6 making silly low output with an old 5speed auto, not so unique or pretty exterior and interior for a 80k honda???? No Thank you

    • SteveH

      Agree Camski. Comparing this to a 520D screams badge snobbery. The 520D would be pretty basic and it would be substantially more to option it up to the Honda. Also, a Passat CC is only a four seater, which could be a consideration for some people.

      I have seen a black one of these in the flesh and it really is a good looking car that hides its size well. Part of the reson for the high fuel consumption could be put down to it being AWD, as I know a 3 litre Subaru Liberty is pretty thirsty.

      And the reason you would buy one of these over the home grown product? This will still be a solid car with no rattles after three years.

    • nobody

      Wasn’t implying badge snobbery with this and the bimmer. Just that if I were gonna dish out around 80K for a sedan then the 520d is something I’d look at when I compare what’s in the market. I understand that optioning it up to the Legend specs will be overkill on the price. Would definitely get the pro pack and metallic paint, not so sure about the lights and certainly no sunroof. So basically looking around abit more than the Honda.

      As I see it the entry level 5 series is the best one for my needs and many reviews have put it as the pick of the 5 series too. No run flats help alot, it’s not quick but ain’t too bad at 8.6 to 100. What’s more it’s very fuel efficient and resale value will be better too.

      Yes bmw’s are expensive to spec up compared to their japanese rivals, but I’m not too big on gadgets. I’d like a nice driving car. I believe it’s also the reason alot of people here would pick an X5 over a RX350.

    • MB

      Honda Legend is just a bland and boring car seems to remined me of the Lexus ES300 which was about as interesting as an indoor plant. The 1st Oz model with the 2.7 2 door was pretty good in its day but the Legend name could be better used elsewhere.eg newborn NSX

    • Mick

      I think a smart thing for Honda to do could have been to import them as an Acura, introduce the brand to Australia similar to Toyota has with Lexus and it would probably eliminate some of the badge snobbery that people have talked about.

      Friend of the family has one of these things and goes on and on about how good it is. So must have something going for it, but for the money I would have bought something German.

    • SteveH

      My point would be is that for the same price, I would rather buy a top spec Japanese car, than a base spec German car

    • realcars

      Fuel ecomomy sounds ok given the size and weight and also AWD.

      Agree Passat better in most respects.

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      So SteveH………..you like like your gadgets! Take the gadgets away from the German stuff you still have what they are famous for most, quality reliability and being great drivers cars.

      I like Hondas,always have!They make really good cars but not really great cars like the Germans do .

      80k to spend Id be looking at something second hand ,low ks and a couple of years old in the German range ,Im sure I could even find some gadgets for you to play with SteveH ;)

    • realcars

      Colour coded mudflaps. Very impressive. Certainly know their buyer demographic.LOL

      Well bling my Camry!!!

    • o

      on the side profile pic it looks like a camry

    • Ethan

      funny how most people leaving comments here have more sense about this car than the reviewer… i mean, 4.5 stars for this piece of crap? caradvice is starting to seem more like a paid avenue for manufacturers to promote their products rather than a genuine car review website… just read the review, it reads like what the brochure would… nasty…

    • Phil

      Why is it that in Australia when people have money they think German ? I mean if you look at the US market, it’s a totally different story. Here it’s either a conservative market, or maybe we’re just brainwashed into thinking so. In regards to the Legend, you cant compare it with a Passat – The closest European competition I could think of would be a BMW 530i in terms of engine capacity, size and performance. By then, you’d be at least $120k out of your pocket, and with less equipment than the Legend. Quality wise, according to the US quality surveys, BMW is way below Honda/Acura. That’s my 2cents :-)

    • Jimbo

      Ah Phil, both the Legend and Passat CC are V6 luxury sedans, how are they not comparable?

    • Jimbo

      Actually a regular passat v6 is a better comparison.

    • JML

      Phil Says:
      “Why is it that in Australia when people have money they think German ? I mean if you look at the US market…”

      Crikey, since when has the American market been the standard for judgment of vehicles?? Most Americans wouldn’t know a great car if it ran them over. While the Americans are the sole reason Lexus ever made it off the ground, the rest of the world rightly chooses the superior German product if they have the cash to splash.

    • Newbie

      I’m sorry , super all wheel drive? what are they aiming this for ? performance or family?

      as for the typical pommy syndrome suffering people – actually I’m not even going to bother trying.

    • SteveH

      Yes BM, the more gadgets the better as far as I am concerned, especially if I am paying this sort of money for a car.

      Agree with the two year old second hand thing, though not necessarily German. There are some absolute bargains out there second hand for this sort of money at the moment.

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Im a car enthusiast not a gadget enthusiast. Germans are the benchmark for the Japs as we all know, thats why they love throwing all that fluff at them to disguise the fact they aren’t quiet as good.;)

      Interesting thing is that all those gadgets in 10 years time will start to cause you grief and Ill still have a great drivers car :P .

    • The Realist

      Too expensive, would never even consider it.

      Some great second hand German purchases these days for $70K-$80K.

    • SteveH

      I think the Germans look very closely at the stuff coming out of Japan nowadays and may even use some parts of their cars as benchmarks.

      I will happily stick with my gadgets rather than sitting in traffic and continually keep telling myself that it is a great drivers car, it is a great drivers car.

    • Wheelnut

      Steve H: Name one new “innovation” that Toyota Nissan or Honda have either introduced or invented in the last 5 years that is now being used by BMW Merc-Benz and the like [note I said invented NOY stole which automatically rules out the Prius]..

      Something which isn’t a “gadget” – something superfluous; that the car will easily work without but is simply there to look good or to give the owner “bragging” rights

      Something which has helped the development of the modern motor car; something new in terms of engineering performance handling aero-dynamics or safety etc.

      Yes they may have a few Patents but thats easy to do when you tweak somehting slightly and give it a new acronym

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Absolutely Realist that’s what Im trying to get across to SteveH.Plus Sitting in a 2 year old 530i sport such as this for $76,000 is hardly sitting on a wooden box.

      quote ” Dual Airbag Package, Anti-lock Braking, Auto Climate Cont with Dual Temp Zones, Aluminium Trim, 18 Inch Alloy Wheels, Cruise Control, CD with 6 CD Stacker, Central Locking Remote Control, Dynamic Stability Control, Fog Lights, Head Airbags, Engine Immobiliser, Leather Upholstery, Multi Function Steering Wheel, Metallic Paint, Parking Distance Control, Power front seats, Power Mirrors, Power Steering, Power Windows, Radio CD with 10 Speakers, Side Airbags, Sport Seats, Sports Suspension, Trip Computer, Traction Control System

      Now Steve I ask you what does this 530i sports lack in gadgets that would make your wait in traffic less comfortable than in a new 80k Jap car ?

      Quote ” I think the Germans look very closely at the stuff coming out of Japan nowadays and may even use some parts of their cars as benchmarks.”

      As you say “you think” ;)

    • SteveH

      Where did I say innovation? I think when Lexus, there I said it, came onto the market, BMW and Mercedes had to pick up there game a bit to stay ahead. Many things are gadgets in cars. Should we all just get poverty pack cars with no luxuries whatsoever? A car will work without a lot of things we take for granted nowadays, but they are expected in a modern car.

      If you check my previous comments, I did say that a 2 year old buy would be a good idea, just that I personally wouldn’t make a bee line straight for a German car. My boss had a 530D and its a nice car. Great engine, but doesn’t feel overwhelmingly better than my Accord Euro as far as interiors go.

      And yes BM, I do think, its what makes me human.

    • Wheelnut

      In terms of looking at Japan to see what they are doing inorder to stay competitive and to stay ahead of the competition is understandable – if you don’t keep track of the competition you’ve lost

      However; you said “I think the Germans look very closely at the stuff coming out of Japan nowadays and even use some of their cars as benchmarks.”

      Which implied that Toyota and co are the innovators not the imitators when it comes to developing a car.

      BTW: BMW Merc-Benz have been around longer than Lexus Therefore; wouldn’t Lexus be the ones using the Germans as benchmarks [like most other car companies do] and not the other way around? particularly as you tend to use the ones who came before you as a guide as to what you need to do inorder to be as successful as they are – if not more so.

      I doubt if there is an area where because of their experiene etc BMW or Merc-Benz wouldn’t be able to match if not better the efforts from Lexus and co…. that is should they actually come up with something original!

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Quote ” My boss had a 530D and its a nice car. Great engine, but doesn’t feel overwhelmingly better than my Accord Euro as far as interiors go.”

      So you think the interior and gadgets make a car ?

      quote ” And yes BM, I do think, its what makes me human.”

      Personal opinion doesn’t make fact SteveH that was my point.

      We’ve all had this argument before about the Germans being the benchmark for the Japs and interiors and gadgets that they {the Japs}supply compared to the Germans ect,in the end its all personal opinion {unless you count surveys that Toyota people hang their hats for accreditation hahaha} except when it come to the engineering where awards clearly show the Germans still out in front.

      From the posts on here it seems most people think this is too expensive and would prefer German for that sort of money ;) but enjoy your Honda .

    • Station Wagon

      If this is a Honda Legend,does that make the Aurion the Toyota Myth????????

    • SteveH

      Thank you Wheelnut for quoting me incorrectly in your reply. I said the Germans may look at parts of Japanese cars and use them as benchmarks. I agree that when Lexus first came out, they benchmarked the German luxury cars. Of course they would so they would know what they are competing against. If you would like an area where the Lexus can be benchmarked it would be in the interior silence while driving.

      Yes BM, I do judge the interior of car pretty highly, its where I spend my time while I am driving my car. I bought my Euro, but maybe I should have bought a 2 – 3 year 320i and kept repeating to myself how much a better drivers car it is. Also, I never quoted myself as stating fact, just from what I read and hear, so take that as you like. Just the same that everything you are saying is an opinion, I certainly don’t take it as fact

    • Newbie

      I have to ask , do all of you pommy syndrome victims know of the Top Gear Survey?

      I suggest you take a look.. these are people from the UK who have compiled their own experiences towards various cars – simple everyday people like you and me ..

      A detailed look into the surveys (05,06,07,08) show that Honda, Lexus, Toyota are higher in rankings across the board, in terms of reliability, build quality, running costs, experiences at dealerships.

      Quote ” My boss had a 530D and its a nice car. Great engine, but doesn’t feel overwhelmingly better than my Accord Euro as far as interiors go.”

      So you think the interior and gadgets make a car ?

      He’s stating his own opinion in relation to a particular aspect of the car that he preferred. Of course you missed his point where he admits the engine of the boss’s car is great. Now you will go and rave on the point about how much of an enthusiast driver you are, how many cars you’ve owned – we’re not all Bavarian Missiles coming to forums raving on about how much of a great drivers car we own ..

      Seriously BM what the hell are you trying to prove? I come here to read a review and all I ever end up reading is you and your useless dribble of German cars this, german cars that? like can you ever just stfu? :D

    • ChineseDriver

      Newbie,

      Totally agree with you.

      This guy, Bavarian Missile (.)(.), it appears he believes German cars are ‘better engineering’ however has no ideas why they are better. The only support is:

      ‘when it come to the engineering where awards clearly show the Germans still out in front’

      Hyundai and Kia had won a range of awards recently, so it clearly show the Koreans still out in front? LOL

    • http://www.checkwebhosting.com Neutral

      If your after an expensive luxurious saloon, go for the Germans. If your after an affordable yet brilliant car, go for the Japanese.

    • The Realist

      The Australian market is quite unique, and we have a set of predetermined expectations – one of those being that a Honda for $80K is too expensive. At $45K the top spec Accord Euro is right near the top of my shopping list. But $80K is out of the question.

      I’m not knocking the merits of the Legend – I’m sure like the Accord Euro it’s built to a great quality level and has many features. But there is badge cachet, resale, and other facets for consideration. There are numerous cars in the $80K price bracket I wouldn’t consider, not only the Honda, these include Alfas, VW’s, HSV’s and FPV’s.

      A second hand BMW will always be a first choice for me in that price range. Like BM said I’d get a second hand 530i M-Sport, which is a great purchase, and matches the Honda in quality, and exceeds it in handling.

      Perhaps Honda Australia’s strategy should have been to introduce Acura in Oz. It’s working for Lexus, perhaps it could work for Honda, though our market is pretty tight as it is.

    • lazybones

      “This guy, Bavarian Missile (.)(.)” what she is a he???? I hope wheelnut has done some checks on this :)

      Germans are fantastic engineers, they set the benchmark for all to beat or follow. I remember years ago when they first had a car running orange peals long before alternatives where the hot topic. We’re not just talking about cars, they seem to have a passion to engineer anything.

      And as a bonus they make good beer :)

    • MazMagic

      I think I will wait until Mazda brings out a Mazda9 (hopefully not another underpowdered early 1990′s 929)!!!

      Not only will the Honda look obsolete (like it actually does here), it will actually make the Germans really scared (Just look at the Mazda3/6 and even the MX-5 for example)

      The only reason why people buy a Merc, Bimmer, Audi over the Mazda6/Accord Euro is because it is European. So, I don’t see why it can’t happen at this end of the market. Sure, Germans may be leaders in some areas (eg Performace cars such as AMG, M etc), but it is not worth it just for the badge.

      Anyway, that by two bobs worth.

    • Wheelnut

      The Germans are better engineers thasn the Japanese.. For example show me a Japanese car company that can extract approximately 100Hp per litre.. like BMW do with the M3 [420BHp out of the 4.0 Litre V8] – without the use of turbos or superchargers!

      The Germans then design and build the car to have a better power to weight ratio not to mention better balance / weight distribution than the Japanese.

      BTW Lazybones; I have done checks on BM.. several times .. and I can tell you she ain’t no he :-)

    • Newbie
    • SteveH

      Wheelnut, the S2000, which is getting on a bit now, gets 176kw from a 2 litre engine. That would have to be over 100hp per litre normally aspirated wouldn’t it?

    • ChineseDriver

      Wheelnut,

      In 1999, which was 10 years ago, a N/A 2.0L Honda S2000 has 240bhp which is 120bhp per Litre.

      In fact, even a year 2000 N/A 1.8L Toyota Celica has 200bhp, again 100bhp+ per litre.

      In fact, even a year 1994 N/A 2.0L Mitsubishi FTO GPX has 200bhp, again 100bhp per litre.

      In fact, even a year 1998 N/A 2.0L Toyota Altezza has 210bhp, again 100bhp+ per litre.

      By the way, I drive a german car now, and I’ve driven many Japanese cars.

      What I am trying to say is, it is pretty naive to judge German cars are ‘better engineers’ base on how many bhp they ‘extract’ per litre.

      A Merc AMG C63 has only 450bhp from its 6.2 V8, compare with the 410bhp from M3′s 4.0 V8, it must be a ‘worse engineer’? I don’t think so.

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Quote SteveH ” Yes BM, I do judge the interior of car pretty highly, its where I spend my time while I am driving my car. I bought my Euro, but maybe I should have bought a 2 – 3 year 320i and kept repeating to myself how much a better drivers car it is. Also, I never quoted myself as stating fact, just from what I read and hear, so take that as you like. Just the same that everything you are saying is an opinion, I certainly don’t take it as fact

      Thats seems to be the case with your preference SteveH ,who am I to say what you should or shouldn’t have in interiors or gadgets.Im just stating that with or without gadgets the Germans stuff are better drivers cars,Im sure your intelligent enough to know that without me becoming the queen of cut and paste and throwing world acclaimed awards for their engineering accomplishments. As I said Hondas are good cars,whole lot more personality than that other brand that I wont mention ;)

      Newbie/Chinese driver, was I talking to you ! SteveH and I are capable of having an intelligent conversation even though it may not be in agreement with each other, we can see each others points. Im sure he doesnt need rescuing from me .

      You dont like my opinion then dont read it,we’re all entitled to our opinions arent we,or do they have to agree with yours.

      Quote ” Hyundai and Kia had won a range of awards recently, so it clearly show the Koreans still out in front? LOL ”

      I said ENGINEERING AWARDS…………..so stop embarrassing yourself . Do you want me to Google the stats on how many “WORLD ENGINE OF THE YEAR”awards have been won by the Germans or will you think they are my opinions still.

      Now run off and play the both of you cause Ive had a long day already and am not in the mood for arguments with kids !

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      How about some resent stuff Chinese driver,for years its been BMW Ms policy to ensure they create 100hp min for every litre! But Im sure you will disagree with that cause I haven’t provided you with fact,it just my opinion !

    • Wheelnut

      They’re not what you would call current or modern cars though – This article is about a currnet model people have referred to the current model BMWs [or at least 2yo] so give us some current models.. as Technology has changed / improved since then

      I know that the S2000 had over 200Bhp etc – it was an awesome car..

      However; if they had the ability to do it back then – why don’t they do it now. I mean the current Type-Rs are rather mundane compared to the old Type-Rs.
      Where did their love for designing and building perfomnace sports cars like the S2000 go?
      Same applies to Toyota – what happened to the Celica GT-4 or the Supra?
      Or the Mitsubishi 3000GT which was another [10y.o] car with 100Bhp per litre

      Mind you even though they were able to extract 100Bhp per litre back then; the engines were virtually at their limit.. I mean an S200 at full noise sounds as though somethings about to give.. whereas a German sports car like an M3 or AMG sounds more refined and more brutal as though still has more in reserve.. that’s the difference

    • ChineseDriver

      LOL

      “you don’t like my opinion then don’t read it”. – Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Wow Relax Bavarian Missile (.)(.)! Don’t act like a kid, when loses a game he shouts “I am not playing with you !@#$!@#$!!! >=(”

      Also, again what is soooo great deal about 100bhp per litre?? Oh, recently, a sluggish Civic Type R has 100bhp per litre as well, this makes it a ‘better engineer’??

      I think the opinions you made are very naive indeed. Such as: German cars are better engineer because they won ‘engineering awards’; or, German cars are better engineers because BMW has policy to ensure 100bhp pre litre; and so on.

      By the way, you are very welcomed to read my opinion even you don’t like it, haha~

    • ChineseDriver

      Wheelnut,

      “Mind you even though they were able to extract 100Bhp per litre back then; the engines were virtually at their limit.. I mean an S200 at full noise sounds as though somethings about to give.. whereas a German sports car like an M3 or AMG sounds more refined and more brutal as though still has more in reserve.. that’s the difference”

      So, now you are saying they are ‘better engineers’ because they makes better noise?????? Or because they are ‘more in reserve’??????

      ROFL~ very good story.

    • SteveH

      So Wheelnut, we give you examples of cars and you fob them off saying they are not current. What a suprise. BMW have only just started to do it and we are supposed to think how wonderful they are.

      Oh, the 3000GT was twin turbocharged, which rules it out of what you previously asked for.

      BM, I rate interiors highly because I spend a lot of time in traffic, so my cars handling doesn’t really come into it most of the time. If I feel like a Saturday or Sunday morning blast, I’ll take my mototbike out. Also BM as you usually point out, awards are only usually pointed out when they are self-serving. Isn’t that right?

    • ChineseDriver

      Wheelnut,

      Supra, or Celica Gt-four or 3000GT, they are all turbo cars.

      But, it appears you, Mr Wheelnut has NO IDEAS!

      The most funny thing is you consider German cars are ‘better engineers’ because they make ‘better noise’ and ‘got power more in reserve’.

      This is one of the most noob comment I ever seen.

    • Tomas79

      Wheelnut says;
      “The Germans are better engineers thasn the Japanese.”

      Typical Mindset you’d expect to come from Boganville!!

      Mate, this day and age most engineering teams are multinational!!
      For example, I have 2 engineer mates that work at an R&D centre for Daimler (Mercedes Benz) in Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. Guess what, they are French (Although one originates from Moroco, and the other one is from Mali)!
      Same goes for your Holden, R&D team…. I doubt you’d consider most of them as aussies if you ever met them outside, face to face!!

      Same goes for judging engineering ability from the amount of power extracted per size of the engine??? I bet you are one of those guys that goes around looking at car speedos to see “How fast they can go”…

      Mate, that is one factor… Who is to say peak power/engine size is the pinnacle of automobile engineering, and results in the optimum performance for the car?? Let’s not forget engineers don’t get to set their direction of development!!!

    • Wheelnut

      Tomas79 says: Mate, this day and age most engineering teams are multinational!!
      For example, I have 2 engineer mates that work at an R&D centre for Daimler (Mercedes Benz) in Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. Guess what, they are French…. Same goes for your Holden, R&D team…. I doubt you’d consider most of them as aussies if you ever met them outside, face to face!!

      When the majority people on this site talk about cars they tend to talk about them or refer to them according to where the company that build them [that is the badge they wear] is from..
      For example people consider the Hilux to be Japanese even though its built in Thailand – because Toyota is a Japanese company.. if you were a real car enthusiast you would realise and understand this

      I know that not everyone who works for BMW or Merc-Benz is going to be German; in the same way that not everyone who works for Holden is Australian

      And you think that I am a Bogan from Boganville [which by the way is in PNG]

    • Wheelnut

      No I don’t go around looking at cars speedos seeing how fast they can go because power and speed are two completely different things..

      Sure you may have an engine capable of producing 1000BHp yet the vehicle its in may weigh 1000 tonees which means despite having such a powewrful engine it would be lucky to reach 100Km/h.. because of what’s known as the power to weight ratio..

      Then of course it depends on the cars torque curve – that is how the power is deliverd in relation to the rev range be it immediate gradual progressive or constant

      For example Most Japanese sports cars deliver the bulk of their power [screamin their t-ts off] high up in the rev range; whilst Australian cars are down low whilst most German performance cars are more constant

      [again referring to where the car company is from not the people who design or build the car]

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Quote Back Seat Chinese Driver ” By the way, I drive a german car now, and I’ve driven many Japanese cars. ”

      * Falls off seat laughing *Yeah righto you do!

      Quote “Back Seat Chinese Driver” Wow Relax Bavarian Missile (.)(.)! Don’t act like a kid, when loses a game he shouts “I am not playing with you !@#$!@#$!!! >=(”Chinese Driver “”

      What are you on ? Too many prawn crackers last night I think !

      Clearly YOU STILL DONT GET THE POINT. Making one car here and there with 100hp per litre isnt an accomplishment ensuring all your models in a range is !Back to that question ,where has a resent mass Jap manufacturer given us all 100hp per litre with out a hair dryer ?

      Mate you make it sound that BMW are nothing special in engine engineering.Did you forget to goggle to see they have won more awards than any other manufacturer in the world when in comes to making engines .Thats awards not surveys . You want to read who is on that deciding board from around the world then google it!

      quote ” I think the opinions you made are very naive indeed. Such as: German cars are better engineer because they won ‘engineering awards’; or, German cars are better engineers because BMW has policy to ensure 100bhp pre litre; and so on.”

      My “opinions” are based on owning BMWs for 20 odd years and the facts on them ,well thats what they are,you cant accept it not my problem!

      Seems you dont have a problem with others agreeing with me ,or do you wish to argue with Realist and Alex also on this .Im sure with our combined knowledge of BMWs we would be tripling your age :P

      You want to go head to head with me on BMWs dude then Ill go top up my wine, pop some corn and enjoy my night in listening to you ramble on…………….Or you could STFU on stuff you know NOTHING about!

      quote ” This is one of the most noob comment I ever seen”

      hahahaha no that was,perhaps you should finish your English classes before you start calling people names. What the hell is a noob?

      Hey SteveH ,I can see why you need to focus on the interior and having a bike for weekends……cool,but with a family on board I imagine it would look something like driving through many Asian cities, something one could hardly enjoy ;)

      • fwefewfewagwa

        I’d happily smash your face in and cut it to shreds

    • Wheelnut

      Chinese Friver says: The most funny thing is you consider German cars are ‘better engineers’ because they make ‘better noise’ and ‘got power more in reserve’

      First of all: How can a car be an Engineer? it doesn’t have a brain or hands it doesn’t walk or talk.. therefore; it can’t use a computer; or even solve a rubiks cube let alone design and build something.. that is of couse unless its Bumble-Bee from Transformers..

      Secondly: I’m not necessarily saying German cars are better because they sound better.. However buying and owning a car is a very emotional thing – and the way a car sounds as well as the way it looks and the way it feels can have an influence as to whether or not you buy it.. can it not? That is of couse unless you are one of those those who buy a car regardless of all that and buy it just because of the [T-----] badge.

    • SteveH

      Wheelnut, I like the way you can make a huge generalisation about how a country produces engines. Japanese cars tend to be high revving due to the use of things such as variable valve timing and small naturally aspirated engines. Japan used to produce a lot of turbo engined, but then focused more on naturally aspirated engines due to the lag that turbo cars suffered back then.

      If by ‘screamin their t-ts off’, you are referring to Honda engines, then this is true of their sports models. I believe they have been designed as high revving engines as this is the market they are trying to attract. As for torque curves, high revving engines will tend to feel a lot peakier as there is usually a rush of power at the top end. Whether the Germans are the only ones in the world to master a high revving engine along with a progressive torque curve is something that could be debated forever and a day. Also, the ‘feel’ of the engine will be greatly affected by the weight of the car, diff ratio’s, etc.

    • Wheelnut

      its true they were all Turbos but theyy were well engineered engines not to mention iconic sports cars

      My point was why did the Japanese stop focussing on and building peformance cars – At least Nissan had the nerve to stick with the GT-R which is another awesome piece of automotive engineering.. If Nissan can do it why can’t the wiorlds biggest wealthiest most popular and supposedly more reliab;e car company?

    • Wheelnut

      Remember Automotive engineering isnt necessarily just about the engine..

      Engineering is the science/art of designing a number of various components; for a specific/particular purpose then bringing them together in order to create something that “works” be it mechanically physically ergonomically or aesthetically etc its whats known as form and function

      As to which engine is better; like most things depends on personal preference even though the Germans have won more international design and engineering awards than the Japanese

    • ChineseDriver

      Bavarian Missile (.)(.),

      LOL relax BM! It seems you are very angry about my comments, and as a result you wrote a very long essay to express your anger, again very naive.

      Firstly, I do drive a German car, not a super sport car but still could reach 0-100 in around 6 secs, standard. You don’t believe? Or you don’t WANT TO believe? Maybe you could ignore what i said, and keep telling you self “ChineseDriver must drives a Toyota Camry/Corolla! MUST!~” LOL

      Secondly, you said German cars are ‘better engineer’ because they can make 100bhp/litre, and now you are saying “Making one car here and there with 100hp per litre isnt an accomplishment ensuring all your models in a range is”.
      And mate, do you think all german car range got 100bhp per litre or something? Tell me, Yes or NO?

      Thirdly, even you keep shouting about how you know so much about BMW, but you were NEVER able to show ANY substantial knowledge at all, except of making funny comments like ’100bhp per litre’ or ‘won many awards’.

      Lastly, about ‘noob’. I don’t know if you are too old to understand or what, as you said you’ve driven BMW over 20 years… no offence… lol

    • Andrew M

      Gee this is spurring on…….
      couldnt help but pick at a simple spelling mistake

      Quote………BM,

      “What are you on ? Too many prawn crackers last night I think !”

      Should have read………
      “What are you on ? Too many PLAWN CLACKERS last night I think !”

      Get it right you Plick!!!!!

      Sorry, I just love LW4

    • Miniskip

      Doesn’t really matter whether or not the Germans are better at designing buildning and engineering a car than the Japanese – which they are…

      Because according to the Code of Conduct the previous 10-20 comments will [most likely] be deleted as they have nothing to do with the Honda Accord.
      Not to mention that some of them contain personal insults -just because those who write them don’t like or don’t understand what is being said]

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      hahaha thats about right AndrewM .

      Im not wasting anymore time on the clacker till he learns to read and understand what is written .

      Hows the new Mazda going ?

      Andrew your younger than me,what the hell is a noob ? I know what a knob is ;)

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Ahhhhhh, all good Andrew,I asked my 24 year old which sort of gives me the age of one Clacker……..hahaha .I think I got my first BMW when he was born!

      Arrrrrrr the young and silly do like to play little games with the old and knowledgeable !

      If the Clacker doesnt agree that the Germans are better engineered vehicles,why is he proclaiming he drives one and secondly if the Germans aren’t over all, who is ?

      I want facts and proof for this not more of his self proclaimed opinions !

    • Wheelnut

      Chinese Driver – you referred to me as a noob..

      Yet is it my fault that you cannot understand or comprehend what is being said when its written in plain english and presented in a structured format?

      As shown by he fact that you resorted to calling me a noob

      Therefore; doesn’t that make you the noob? Ya nob

    • Forza M

      BM and Andrew M. Is racism all you have got to give? Poor old china is probably crying I think you should both apologise, especially you Andy you car industry professional you.

      hehehe wanker

    • Wheelnut

      SteveH: I dnd’t so much as fob them off perse; I just tried to clarify my comments etc.. surely I am allowed to do that?

      As I said [in my subsequent comments]: whilst the S2000 Supra and 3000-GT were awesome pieces of automotive engineering.. I wanted to know if they could do it then why can’t/don’t they [the Japanese car makers] do it now?

      Given that technology etc has improved since then they should be able to extract even more power without a turbo charger.. particularly on their flagship performance models

    • sick of bogan

      yes….they are….just read it and see how low they can go?Andrew Says:
      April 11th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

      Sick of bogans etc, obvoiusly doesn’t care about Australia, or it’s motoring heritage, he should go back to his country and stick his D!ck into the nearest toyota exhaust pipe!

    • ChineseDriver

      Wheelnut,

      I can fully understand what you said.
      1st, you claimed:

      “The Germans are better engineers thasn the Japanese.. For example show me a Japanese car company that can extract approximately 100Hp per litre.. like BMW do with the M3 [420BHp out of the 4.0 Litre V8] – without the use of turbos or superchargers!”

      Then, I showed you a number of N/A Japanese car which has over 100bhp per litre. And then you said:

      “Mind you even though they were able to extract 100Bhp per litre back then; the engines were virtually at their limit…. whereas a German sports car like an M3 or AMG sounds more refined and more brutal as though still has more in reserve.. that’s the difference” – so now you stopped talking about bhp per litre and talking about engine noise? It appears you’ve given up you 1st argument which german cars are better because the bhp they produce pre litre?

      Do I need to keep going? I am tried of copy and paste really.

      By the way, I shouldn’t call you a noob, sorry man.

    • Andrew M

      BM,
      The Mazda is a great car. I used to get thrown the keys to her last ride, now i gotta fight for them!!

      No Idea what a noob is, i would have just assumed it to be a typo……

      Forza,
      Trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill as usual???
      Sad man.

      Your countless string of insults leads me to ask if you wish to be the pot or the kettle???

      Did you not see the footnote where I mentioned the humour I used was quoted from a movie???

      Also for all you know I could be Asian myself…….

      Oh and when you want to laugh, laugh like a man (none of this he he he he stuff).

    • SteveH

      Andrew, nice of you to chime in with the racist insults and BM to go along with them.

    • Andrew M

      Steve,
      please also read what i noted to Forza on the subject.

      I will ask the racism experts though, is it wrong for an asian to poke fun of an asian for eg??
      Is that considered racist???

      Im sure plenty of aussies have had a go at immitating Kiwi accents, is that also a form of racism???

      Is it also racism when Aussies immitate other Aussies who carry strong Aussie accents???

      The humour I was relating to came direct from a blockbuster comedy movie.
      For one I dont believe its a form of racism, and secondly if you view it as being so, you need to relax and stop being so pedantic and sooky

    • ChineseDriver

      SteveH,

      It’s okay, it demonstrates what type of person they are, lol not a surprise at all for BM to use personal attack to shy away from my questions.

      “Arrrrrrr the young and silly do like to play little games with the old and knowledgeable!”

      Again NO substantial valuable information at all, just heaps of BS self glorification.

      And, just look at how many words Andrew M is writing trying to clean himself. A typical clown lol.

      No wonder, AM and BM, they are friends.

    • Wheelnut

      No – Chinese Driver after you brought up several N/A cars from Japan that could produces 100Bhp per litre – from 10 years ago.. I asked if they could do it back then why don’t they do it now? why has Japan lost the passion to design and build such performance cars

      The S-2000 and the 3000-GT [which I realise is Turbo-charged] were still an awesome piece of automotive engineeering.. So you’d think that given how engine technology etc has improved since then they would be able to extract the same amount if not more powwer out of an engine nand not necessarily need a turbocharger
      The exception being the Nissan GT-R.. which in terms of performance etc is benchmarked against and compared to another German; the Porsche 911 GT3 / Carrera

      The engine noise is a sepperate issue – yet the reason I mentioned engine noise is because it shows how much you have to stick the boot in to a Japanese car to get the the power out of it compared to a German car that is all..

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      How funny is that Chinese driver and Forza again end up supporting each other. I think your right Andrew they are the same person. Personal attacks, us hahaha thats a laugh ,you can call others “noob” and “wanker” and that isnt an insult ?

      Oh and Sick of Bogan, we cant mention the word prawn cracker but you can continually call all those Holden and Ford supporters bogans! yeah pot calling kettle black there matey !

      Quote Forza/Chinese Driver ” Again NO substantial valuable information at all, just heaps of BS self glorification.”

      So what you dont believe me that BMW have won more WORLD ENGINE AWARDs than another manufacturer,you think that BS!

      Ill do the work for you then if you cant google! Try saving face from that!

      Quote ” BMW dominate World Engine of Year Awards (again!)

      BMW has claimed six awards for five engines at this year’s “International Engine of the Year Awards”, including a successive Engine of the Year title for the 225 kW twin-turbo 3,0-litre six cylinder and “Best New Engine of the Year” for the 150 kW twin turbo four-cylinder diesel powerplants.

      The “International Engine of the Year Awards” have been presented for the past 10 years and this year’s recipients were chosen by a jury of 65 motoring journalists from 32 nations, including CAR and Wiel Magazine’s respective technical editors – Jake Venter and Schalk Pienaar. The 2008 awards ceremony was held during the “Engine Expo 2008” in Stuttgart last night and the N54 powerplant, as utilised in BMW’s 135i Coupe, 335i Saloon and Coupé and xDrive35i, defended its overall ranking and repeated last year’s victory in the 2,5 to 3,0-litre engine category.

      The Munich-based manufacturer has now won the overall title six times since 1999. The only other engine to repeat its overall victory – BMW’s 5,0-litre V10 (M5, M5 Touring, M6 Coupé and M6 Convertible) in 2005 and 2006, won the Above 4,0-litre category this year. Furthermore, the M3 Coupé and Saloon’s 309 kW 4,0-litre V8 unit won the 3,0- to 4,0-litre category, the 2,0-litre variable twin turbo four-cylinder diesel unit in the BMW 123d received the “Best New Engine” award (unfortunately, that powerplant isn’t destined for SA in the short-term, BMW SA says) and the Mini Cooper S’ 1,6-litre four pot (with twin-scroll turbocharger and direct petrol injection) repeated last year’s win in the 1,4- to 1,8 litre class”

      Hows that for FACT! Now you want to tell me why you think the Japs are better at engineering or do you want me to keep spruking about their chassis refinement over the Japs too!

      Come on Forza/Chinese driver we’re waiting !

      Back on topic ,shall we reflect what this story is about ! An 80 k Honda that clearly most on here would prefer something German instead .Why do you think that is ? Even the fluff isnt enough to keep their bums in the Honda seat.

    • Wheelnut

      Tomas79 peak powek or engine size might not be the pinnacle of automotive engineering but there are some car enthusiasts out there who believe that they are fairly important – mainly as they can have bragging rights amongst their friends…. and before you say it no; they aren’t necessarily bogans from boganville

      However; if you have a small capacity engine and are able to extract as much if not more power than a larger engine isn’t that an achievement? – and if you can do it without the use of a turbo/supercharger its even more impressive

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Quote ” SteveH Says:
      May 24th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

      Andrew, nice of you to chime in with the racist insults and BM to go along with them. ”

      I agree with AndrewM if you think the term plawn clacker is raciest then you need to relax and stop being so pedantic and sooky.

      This guy continually throws personal insults in his post when he is wrong and wont admit it! Then most of his posts end up getting deleted for that same reason ;)

    • SteveH

      Pedantic and sooky? Give me a break. If you want to read about pedantic, look at Wheelnut’s comments about, show me a Japanese NA engine with more than 100 hp / litre, oh wait no, they are all old engines so that doesn’t matter. The reason I called you guys on the ‘plawn clacker’ comment is that you guys are the first to go running to the moderators if something is said that you don’t like.

      Andrew, I don’t know who you are or what race you are, so how am I supposed to know if you are Australian, Asian, English, etc. I could claim to be anything I want and throw insults around under the provisoof being a certain race / disability, etc

    • Andrew M

      Steve H,
      Thats exactlly right, you dont know!!!!!

      And if in fact you dont know, then you are purely trying to discredit me by making assumptions.

      Do you know what defamation is???

      Eitherway, no matter what race or colour I am, the remarks made were not racist.
      Please tell me how and exactlly where I made a racist remark.

    • sick of bogan

      there you go…..Andrew Says:
      April 11th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

      Sick of bogans etc, obvoiusly doesn’t care about Australia, or it’s motoring heritage, he should go back to his country and stick his D!ck into the nearest toyota exhaust pipe!

    • Another Toyota Recall

      Soooooooooooo ,whats your point SoB ? Do you know what inciting means ?

      Shall I do a search on all the insults and bogan comments you always make on this site ?

      Yeah why not ! Cant quite remember all the aliases you go under but Ill try!

    • Another Toyota Recall

      A taste of your own medicine SOB!

      Quote ” sick of bogan Says:
      April 28th, 2009 at 7:33 pm

      one more blindness bogan with big mouth.dinosaurs=history

      Quote ” sick of bogan Says:
      April 30th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

      Apparently only the japenese brands can sell conservative/boring looking vehicles and get away with it.really?at least they are not selling the cars with 1960’s suspensions and oldest engine block on earth.only dinosaurs can get away with it.you bogans can continues with your meaningless war,but leave alone TOYOTA the world’s largest,richest,trusted and number one auto maker in the world.

      quote ” sick of bogan Says:
      May 2nd, 2009 at 10:50 am

      what is the best selling 4WD in australia?what is the best selling brand in australia?which brand is the world’s largest,richest,respected,trusted auto maker?the best auto makers will survives.however dinosaur days are over.the good news is there will be less bogans and less dinosaurs from next year.only bogans came here and shamelessly talked about how good their dinosaurs are{in fact..they are rubbish.just another taxi…right].well..the times will tell…..OH WHAT A FEELING! ‘”

      Now SOB they were taken from 3 different threads on this site,do you understand why your not taken seriously ,all you do is incite arguments .Is it any wonder people retaliate with an insult when your a broken record on the bogan and dinosaur thing !

      You care to make a comment on the Honda and get back on the subject or keep repeating yourself ?

    • Andrew M

      SOB,
      were you trying to answer my question to Steve H???

      Well Perhaps if you werent so rude, you would have noticed that at the start of each post the posters name appears.

      If you want to pin something on me, then please take care as to check the name of the author

      Ill slow it down….
      The post you referenced wasnt made by me…….

    • SteveH

      Andrew, so you are saying that making fun of someones accent based on their race, is not racist? What is it then?

      Also, you called me sooky earlier. You having a tantrum about me not knowing who you are, claiming defamation, etc is what exactly?

    • Tomas79

      Another article ruined by these bogan muppets!!

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      I thought this was finished ………….

      SteveH says “Andrew, so you are saying that making fun of someones accent based on their race, is not racist? What is it then?”

      Hell thats not being racist SteveH that’s a little light entertainment .Its not aimed at anyone like an insult is!

      Taking the p*ss I think us Australians call it ;)

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Thomas says ” Another article ruined by these bogan muppets!! ”

      See thats an insult SteveH ………

    • http://skyline The Salesman

      I’m not racist. I hate everyone equally. So this is the next Hyundai Sonata? I don’t think their is anything you could put in a V6 sedan to make it worth $80k. Except put a Honda badge on it. I’m sure its a nice ride and has all the wiz bang touch screen stuff. I would like to try out the SHAWD to see for myself if it is any better than an AWD with ESP. But i doubt it. Go buy a used TRD. Half the money and just as much driving punch………

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Salesy says “I’m not racist. I hate everyone equally.”

      hahaha how funny is that,Wheelnut just emailed me the same thought!

      Salesy ” Go buy a used TRD. Half the money and just as much driving punch………”"

      Yeah I think you can still buy a new one from 2007 at half the price of new ! Then its still a Toyota ,I think Honda are above them in style and quality! Maybe a second hand IS-250 if you have to have all that Jap fluff.{ducks for cover SteveH is still about hahaha }

    • Andrew M

      SteveH,
      Racism is a form of discrimination, usually aggressive.

      Immitating a Kiwi or Asian accent is not racism.

      Defamation is accusing someone of something they arent or of something they did not do to a point where their credibility is hurt.

      You and your friends are guilty of defamation, because Racism is is something I am not guilty of.

      You also had no reason to believe i was even immitating an Asian accent in the first place.
      How can you prove I was to start with??

    • Phill

      Honda legend is to expensive,by a G6ET or a v8 calias instead,go the Aussie stuff.

    • Phill

      Im not Racist,I just drive too fast sometimes.This accord is as heavy as a GT,cars are getting too heavy.

    • http://CarAdvice The Salesman

      BM.
      You know what they say about great minds. For 80k i would not buy a Honda or a Toyota (or Lexus). The Honda Ledgend will hardly be a bleep on the sales radar for anyone who could afford to spend $80k. IMO it just has not got a market in OZ. Audi or BMW would be much better prospects.

    • Forza M

      I love this, i am apparently the chinese guy now. You two
      Andrew (i bought a 626) M and Mrs Chocolate Baverian make me cry with laughter you are that gullable

      You two Morans love writing war and peace, i on the other hand just enjoy upsetting you.

      Mrs Baverian FYI a Japanese product has had one engine variant in the top 10 worlds best engines for 14 years running. The Slanties arent that bad after all.

    • Wheelnut

      Forza – a Moran is actually a type of Lounge – you morOn!infact they make lounges.. they’re an Australian owned company and they’re most popular model is the chesterfield which is a rather classy old english style leather lounge.

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Forza/Chinese driver………Quote ” Mrs Baverian FYI a Japanese product has had one engine variant in the top 10 worlds best engines for 14 years running. The Slanties arent that bad after all. “”

      hahaha love it ,you………. trying to educate me in whos won engine awards ? Pffffttt before it was me and my BS on German Engineering thats purely based on “MY” opinions ,I provide you evidence on why they are the masters and you still try and give the Japs a little credit.Sorry ,you lost that one by not admitting the Germans “do” have it over the Japs .

      Oh and go back to school as Ive said before and learn to spell ……Bavarian was in front of you and you still got it wrong! ….you comfy lounge you!hahaha

      Love the ” Slanties” term,now where is SteveH to give you a serve on racism ?

      So I take it you would spend 80k on a Honda here unlike most of us! Just to try and get it back on topic!;)

    • SteveH

      Would love to have a go at the racism aspect BM, but unfortunately my previous post on this subject is ‘awaiting moderation’, so I just can’t be bothered.

    • SteveH

      Also BM, if you are going to have a go at someones spelling, make sure your grammar is correct as well… (Mine is appalling as well, so its a bit like people in glass houses..)

    • ChineseDriver

      Bavarian Missile (.)(.),

      Why do you lost your temper so badly, and unable to make proper judgement, LOL?

      Somehow in your chaos brain, I’ve became Forza M???

      If you consider anyone who disagree with you and gave you a hard time(look at you, struggling at this place from 8.30am in the morning till now which is 10.00pm, LOL very sad) to be ChineseDriver, then there are quite a few ChineseDrivers here in this forum!

      NOW, CONCENTRATE YOUR MIND and take all them down!

    • Forza M

      Wheelnut,
      I stick with what i wrote. They and especially you are Moran’s. I find it very sad that all you can come back with is some spelling mistake.

      PS If you want to give me some grammer lessons make sure you get it write (i spelt it wrong for you) every time dipshit.

      This is an extract from your rubbish above:

      So you’d think that given how engine technology etc has improved since then they would be able to extract the same amount if not more powwer out of an engine nand not necessarily need a turbocharger

      Spelling mistakes, grammer, its all wrong.

      And as for you Mrs Caramel Bavarian, 1- I am not racist I was having a tongue in cheek go at you and Mazda Capella boy about the way you treated the asian guy.

      2: I couldnt give a rats how you spell BMShithouse anyway….

      3 Your beloved brand is turning into the Kia of Germany – Shocking design, quality and resale have a look that 5 series bus thing for example, its hilarious.
      Good night

    • SteveH

      Oh dear

    • Newbie

      i agree, wheelnut can stick it to bm , oh wait he already does that :D

    • Icaramba

      4.5? wow must be a really good car, just a bit overpriced though

    • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

      Arrrrrrrrrrrrr look the Forza/Chinese Driver {the Siamese twins}are back .

      Good to see your back discussing the car.

      Oh well at least you have learnt to spell Bavarian this time! hahahaha

      Quote ” Your beloved brand is turning into the Kia of Germany – Shocking design, quality and resale have a look that 5 series bus thing for example, its hilarious “”

      Fantastic !!!………Kia is one of those brands currently in the world that is bucking the trend of decreasing sales and is powering forward .If you knew anything about cars or what is happening over at Kia you would realise this is one brand that the Japs are real concerned about because they have improved in leaps and bounds in the last few years . So once again you have just embarrassed yourself.

      Newbie/SOB , your comment fits your normal standard,just below your Siamese mate!

    • Wheelnut

      Forskin says: And as for you Mrs Caramel Bavarian, 1- I am not racist I was having a tongue in cheek go at you and Mazda Capella boy about the way you treated the asian guy.

      First of all you should never start a sentence with “And”

      Secondly by referring to Chinese Driver as the “The Asian Guy” you are being just as derogatory and degrading as those whom you accuse of being racist – which means that you are just as much a racist as the rest of us – most people are they just don’t like to admit it.

      • fwefewfewagwa

        I’d happily kick your face in

    • The Realist

      This thread is getting out of hand – and I haven’t even contributed much…! :-D

      Phill Says:
      May 25th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
      “Honda legend is to expensive,by a G6ET or a v8 calias instead,go the Aussie stuff.”

      Problem with the Aussie stuff is it it’s overpriced just like the Honda Legend – a Holden or Ford for $70K+? You can find better quality, interiors, service and features on imported cars $40K less in price. I won’t even mention the ridiculously priced TRD for $60K+!!

      I’ll give HSV some credit – the Senator and Grange are cheaply built but are very good looking cars, and they handle well. But FPV has lost the plot – take away the engines and transmission and you’re left with cars that look like Mt Druitt specials. And they don’t even come with xenons. ;-)

    • what the?

      seriously people, you need to find some past times other than sitting on a car website from 5pm till 10pm, abusing people over their opinions about cars – and for over 5 hours for God’s sake! Good grief, get out there and enjoy life will you – this can not be descirbed as living life to the full, even if it was a Monday night. Get out from behind the computer and go for a jog, or maybe even wash your own car – even that would be healthier than having arguments with people you’ve never even met over a website forum.

    • Buck

      I’ll give HSV some credit – the Senator and Grange are cheaply built but are very good looking cars, and they handle well. But FPV has lost the plot – take away the engines and transmission and you’re left with cars that look like Mt Druitt specials. And they don’t even come with xenons. ;-) The Realist

      What’s abundently clear is that you havn’t driven either a G6ET or an F6.

      I’ve driven both and the current Legend and believe me when I say, the Legend is anything but, OTOH “Legend” is exactly my enduring memory of the F6, its absolutly ballisticand drives brilliantly.

    • Andrew M

      The Realist,
      The word is out on Xenons, and that is that the Falcon doesnt need them as they use well designed headlights in place of simply slapping a better bulb in them.

      Go read the XR8 V SS review to find out that it is concluded that Xenons arent required.

      Ive also read similar comments on the Previous model BF falcon.

      I alsao agree that if you take away the good bits of the FPV’s, then they arent much.
      BUT, you have to take away a lot less for the HSV’s to be worthless.
      Ford uses better Engines, Transmissions, Interiors and suspension. Looks are subjective, but personally I think the FPV’s hold their own very well style wise.
      The VE’s look dated because ford flogged that front end to death from BA (2002) onwards.

      I will agree though that the Senator is a nice looking machine, but as you said it yourself, at least they look good.
      Nothing better than knowing thats all you got going I suppose
      IMO HSV’s and FPV’s are both well styled. It comes down to whats under the skin, and thats where Holden in general gives up the fight

    • Buck

      Well said Andrew M. Quite frankly for all the hype surrounding Xenon’s especially the ones that are adaptive and turn around corners, whilst the turning around corners thing is very very cool, the Xenon’s in my Merc are no more powerful than those in the Typhoon.

      If Xenon’s especially apaptive one’s arn’t standard and you have to tick the option box on any given car, especially Euro’s, I wouldnt recommend them as unless your driving on European Autobahn’s at great speed its hard to see them being of much value.

    • Andrew M

      Buck,
      I suppose its a compliment to the Falcon that all they can pick on is the lack of useless Xenon bulbs

      Its also like the shock horror in the Falcon not having curtain airbags as standard until they tested it and it pantsed the opposition………..

    • Buck

      Andrew M,

      Quite right. There’s an awful lot of badge and “kit” hype in my opinion.

      I’ve been extremly happy with my BF11 Typhoon and after 2 and a half year’s nothings gone wrong with it and it goes like an absolute rocket.

      Back on subject, the Legend’s SH AWD did impress me to some extent, especially the way it vector’s torque to the outside rear wheel to reduce yaw in the corners, (this would be especially useful for old retiring types who have forgotten how to drive), but the so called Legend IMO is a vehicle without real identity, it tries to be a luxury / performance / sports car and suceeds at nothing other than being significantly over-priced and over-rated for what it is.

      Its a Legend, in name only.

    • Phill

      The Realist – the G6E turbo is around $60000,I dont know of an imported car that costs $20000 brand new and has 270kw,a ZF 6 speed gearbox,5 star crash rating and is an effortless highway cruser and a B road blaster.Woopie shit if it don’t have Xenons it don’t need them.

      • Jack

        Yep, its a bloody fast car.
        But crap to drive long distances and will blow the engine at 70000km.
        Turbos – good for hoons and bogans, sunday toys, and diesels, but for a daily driver….turbos are stupid. Watch how your wife/GF drives it then guess how long your turbo will last.

    • Forza M

      BM if you honestly think anyone is worried about Kia then you are dreaming or (and this is more likely) you have no understanding of this industry.

    • Al Juraj

      Max torque at 5000 rpm, the usual Honda peakiness. I don’t even think torque is in their vocabulary at all. They max out the power to make the specs look good on brochures. A turbo would have done this techy 4WD system more justice. 80K is certainly a big ask, and you don’t even get a 6-speed auto.

    • The Realist

      Buck Says:
      May 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am
      “What’s abundently clear is that you havn’t driven either a G6ET or an F6.”

      I’ve driven a G6ET – and it was okay. Drove well, great transmission, very good engine. But it looked cheap, sat inside and knew I was sitting in an Aussie made car because the swutchgear and instrumentation was low rent. And the smell of leather was already almost gone. It was parked next to an Audi A5 – which amplified how behind the times Ford Australia are.

      Andrew M Says:
      May 26th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
      “I suppose its a compliment to the Falcon that all they can pick on is the lack of useless Xenon bulbs”

      There’s plenty more to pick on – but we’ve had that debate before, and I don’t want to embarass you again.

      Phill Says:
      May 26th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
      “The Realist – the G6E turbo is around $60000,I dont know of an imported car that costs $20000 brand new and has 270kw,a ZF 6 speed gearbox,5 star crash rating and is an effortless highway cruser and a B road blaster.Woopie shit if it don’t have Xenons it don’t need them.”

      Sounds like all you want is speed and performance like the typical redneck inhabiting Sydney’s West and South West – most Australians want something a little more. The G6ET FPV POS ABC doesn’t look like a $60K car – it looks like a tarted up Fairmont Ghia.

      On the second hand market for $70K there are some fantastic cars that make the Falcon look overpriced. And for less than $40K there are fantastic cars that may not have the performance of the rep mobile, but exceed it in many other areas.

      Tax payers pump billions into the industry – and Ford sells us nasty rep mobiles for $60K. We should be paying $20K.

    • Paul

      The amount of technology and standard trims that Honda Legend comes with is a bargain for that price! But then again, bargain is hardly what people in this market segment look for… It is like worrying about fuel efficiency while driving an X5, or a supercar. This car is about making a statement… hence the Hybrid Lexus 4WD and its likes :-)

      This car definitely is a victim of brand snobbery, you simply can’t deny that! In Asian market where there is a bigger market for understated luxury, Legend makes a lot of sense.

    • FrugalOne

      LOL silly money…..

      But a GREAT buy 2nd hand.

      Just buy a Premium Euro and be done with it

      Cheers

      F-0

    • Richodownunder

      Having owned, driven and thoroughly enjoyed a 1987 2.5 manual Legend for 20 years and spending only on routine preventative maintenance, I can only say that critics of the Legend have obviously never owned one. We are Honda people through and through — we’ve owned a Civic Hatch, a V6 Accord and a CRV in addition to the Legend. All of them have been ultra reliable and provided us with everything we have wanted…and that includes performance and handling. I circuit raced, rallied, hill climbed, speedway’d, motorkhana’d for more than 30 years and I look for performance as well as comfort and reliability in my daily drive cars. The Legend stood up to a pounding on country dirt roads, towed race cars all over the eastern states, took us camping on some horrific tracks…sorry guys, unless the Legend has gone backwards beyond belief we’ll be buying another one later this year.

    • Shak

      I really feel sorry for Honda as this car deserves to suceed. I took a drive in it when i was buying my new car a couple of months back, and it was superb. Ticked all the boxes. but the price prevented me from going any furhter. We instead opted for a V6 Luxury Accord. Still goes like crazy and is beautiful inside. Not so much the outside.

    • Mythfrances

      Look at all these comments about German and Jap cars.

      If there is someone who have actually owned at least 10 cars of each side, then their comments might be worth reading.

      There is absolutely no point in boasting “Oh i have owned BMW for 20 years. and I hate Honda” or “I have 1 Toyota and 1 Mercedes. I like my Mercedes more.” becuase you have no idea about other brands or 1 car does not stand for all models across a brand’s range.

      So, stop the fight.

    • vikea

      HELLO EVRYONE. I READ ALL YOU COMMENTS.
      I WANT TO SAY THAT GOOD GERMAN CARS ARE S CLASSE, 7-SERIES, A8 S. THATS ABOUT ALL. YOU KNOW THE PRICES. VW ARE NOT CARS THESE ARE DANGEROUSE FOR YOUR LIFE. WHEN A 1 YEAR OLD WITH 30 K ONE IT FAILS AN ENGEENE WHILST YOU ARE DRIVING IT CAN BE THE END.. YOU WANT TO SEE FOR YOUR SELF GO AND BUY A PASSAT…

    • Jimmy

      I read all these comments and now have a mark on my face from repeatedly face-palming throughout the thread.

      In general the comments on the Legend were good – it’s almost certainly a ‘great’ car in every since of the word but no one will buy it at that price due, largely to brand snobbery. Can’t say I blame them either.

      The German car / Japanese car debate further up? Jeeze. They both make some great cars. It’s not like we’re comparing German and American cars.

      Just one I did want to chime in – assessing a car producing country using their performance cars as a metric, doesn’t seem wise to me.

      I understand a company like BMW will produce cars like an M3 as a loss-leader. They know very well that for any money they lose on an M3, they’ll make it back several times over enticing dreamers to their higher-margin cars like the 320i.

      It’s all part of their marketing plan.

      Japanese companies certainly do this as well, but the impression I get is their ‘racing-spec’ cars are considerably more affordable for the average Jo, meaning they’re also a lot less impressive in terms of what you end up with.

      The whole Japanese/German argument seems based around what you value. Generally speaking, Japanese cars give you more bang for your buck and German cars are better engineered.

    • wilson3339

      its funny how on all these forums people argue about falcons and commodores “falcon has this problem” “commodore has this wrong with it” but on this one its “german cars are better in this way” “but jap cars are better in this way”
      it just shows how much better german and jap cars are compared to ours, i mean i love australia and everything here but im a car enthusiest and australia and america just cant build cars. well they can but just not as well.

    • wilson3339

      actualy can i just add that australia can still build way better cars than the US

    • Jack

      Having just read through all the comments, one thing is blatantly obvious – most of you have never seen the car in the flesh (metal) little less actually driven it.

      I have just ordered a new 2011 6 speed model – and as its a company car, I didn’t care that it was overpriced. What I needed was the best in class car that suited my needs.

      Euro cars – brilliant, love them, have owned many inc. Merc, BWM, Porsche, Audi, Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, Alfa…and the list goes on. BUT EACH ONE HAD PROBLEMS THAT GOT WORSE AS THEY GOT OLDER.

      I have driven extensively (as hire cars) Commodores/Calais/Statesman, Falcon/Fairlane/G6ET, Aurion, and Mitsu 380′s – and all are competent cars (the 380 was actually the nicest to drive, I don’t know why they failed) – but I would never actually BUY any of them. They are just tarted up rep-mobiles.

      I needed a reliable car that would start 1st time, every time, that would cover long distances quietly, comfortably and was moderately economical. It had to be able to carry 4 guys, and be up-market enough to be client-friendly. It had to be safe (I like getting home to see my family), and I really wanted AWD. It had to have enough guts to get past road trains quickly and safely, and a great sound system was essential. So what else is out there that fits the bill?

      Audi A6 – beautiful, but specked up to the same level > $50k more.
      BMW 5 series – beautiful, but specked up to the same level > $80k more & no AWD.
      Merc E class – beautiful, but specked up to the same level > $80k more & no AWD.
      4WD’s – RR/Lexus RX/etc, don’t like the top heaviness and roll, and they will never be as quiet or comfortable as a dedicated road car (I will never go off-road). Yes I have had 4WD before.
      Lexus IS350 – nice, but smaller, more expensive to buy and maintain, no AWD, much harsher on the road – yeas I know it’s sportier and quicker, but they weren’t my prime considerations. (and all Lexus drivers seem to be wan$ers – they think they bought the road with their car)

      So the Legend won by default – fitted my needs when nothing else did, was still a dam nice car to drive.

      Would I pay $80k if it was my money – nope. It’s probably worth about $65k.
      Is it the prettiest car out there – nope. But it’s not dogs ar*e ugly either.
      Is it really worth the extra $30k over a V6 Accord – nope, not really.

      But it really is a bloody nice car to drive every day on the road. I know it will start every morning, I won’t be taking it to Mt Panorama although it does corner surprising well for something so heavy, there are not many fun twisty roads in WA that I encounter on a daily basis – and that’s what my Elise is for anyway :)

    • Browne

      Notwithstanding the waffle and whinging about the cost and some apparent concern over a 5 speed gear box, I’m not sure I understood what exactly people consider to be wrong with the Legend. I have one, bought it from new 5 years ago and was happy to spend the $73K. At the time, I didn’t like the Mercedes, Audi or BMW options – having looked at them I considered their base models boring, undersized and when optioned-up they were over-priced.

      The Legend is a particularly good car to drive whether around the city or over long distances at speed. It seats the family with ease (roomer that the equivalent Merc, Audi of BMW), has a high safety rating, has a higher level of comfort and luxury than most cars at it’s price, and on trips travelling around the speed limit it returns 8.5lt to 9lt/100km with bags of power to overtake safely and ofcourse is highly reliable – so what’s the problem here?

      I suspect the above ill-informed commentary is all around misguided punters banging on about badge snobery.

      As with Jack (and his Elise), if I’m looking for a more exicting drive then I’ll take my “500″ out of the garage. Clearly the Merc SL500 is a highly engineered car, with a completely different performance spec, that I bought for a completely different function than that of the Legend. I’m no country of origin or badge snob, I understand why I want the car and it’s certainly not for it’s badge, equally I’m not going to denegrade one motor at the expense of the other, they both do their jobs remarkably well!!

      However, make no mistake, I am able to list a bunch of faults for both motors but probably less for the Legend than for the “500″!

      • Had a BM

        Interesting assessments. I did own a BMW. It was an indescribable heap of junk. Always garaged and under cover at my office. Rusted inside the front doors so badly the hinges almost fell out. Needed a complete gearbox rebuild at 40k. Head rebuild at just over 50k. Complete brake replacement at less than 80k. Paint deteriorated badly. Gutless with the A/C on,…. and it wasn’t a four pot. Trim around the windows fell to pieces, Radio / player never worked.
        Fortunately someone stole it and wrecked it.
        Yes, I would but a Honda in preferenc to a BMW any day. And I did.
        Had a BM