Fog Light Fury
June 11, 2007 by Paul Maric
I’ve had this boxed up inside me for some time now and it can’t remain any longer, I have to share with everyone my Fog Light Fury.
Most middle of the range cars now come with fog lights, along with a bucket load of DIY maestros who fit their own fog lights, caring little about their alignment and positioning.
During total daylight, without even an ounce of darkness, you are likely to find no less that one in five people driving with their fog lights on – that’s according to my personal day-to-day tally. Unbeknown to the driver, their fog lights are pissing me – and quite a few other road users – right off. Is there any logic whatsoever in using your fog lights during the day, or even during the night when there is absolutely NO fog around? Absolutely not.
Drivers that have mis-aligned fog lights manage to get at me the most, surely if they knew how bloody annoying and dangerous their showboating attempt was, they would realise that there is absolutely no logic in the use of their fog lights. Earlier model Subaru WRXs, along with VT-VZ Commodores must be the worst offenders, every single one of them – with fog lights on – seems to have their fog lights aligned directly at oncoming traffic.
And then there are rear fog lights…Hyundai Excels anyone? Rear fog lights are the bane of all evil and should not – under any circumstances – be operated during conditions where there is no fog! Surely drivers of these offending vehicles wonder what the little red fog light symbol on their dashboard means?! Unbeknown to them, they are irritating the absolute crap out of everyone else. They are subtle enough not to stand out at first, but the second you notice them, your eyes don’t drift away until they’re gone.
My rant does serve a purpose. It is in fact illegal to operate fog lights and rear fog lights during conditions where there is no fog. Unfortunately, Police are always too busy doing other things, opposed to booking serial offenders who think their fog lights somehow impress other drivers.
So next time your finger goes for that fog light switch – STOP. Because you are annoying the crap out of every other motorist on the road.
- Paul Maric
Tags: Fog light
Im on the road as much as anyone else and cant say ive really noticed this problem. Im sure they are out there though.
I agree with everything you just vented.
And I’m not defending people with fog lights in operation when there isn’t any fog, but I’ve met two people in the past that have had fog lights on and had no idea they even had them in the first place.
One person was at a petrol station. I was filling up and they were returning to their car, a fairly new model that had foggies and the lights turned on when they blipped the key-fob to unlock the doors. The driver of the car commented to their mate as they opened the door “geez those lights are bright aye… better to be seen.”
I put the handle back into the bowser and leaned over and said “you know, there’s a switch for those lights, they’re only useful in the fog and they piss drivers in front of you, both oncoming and in the same direction”.
Cheers
Steve
I have never found them to be an issue. During daylight their brightness is drowned out by sunlight, and during night driving it is common knowledge not to look into the head lights of oncoming cars, regardless of whether or not the fog lights are on. By nature they are a low beam which in my opinion does not effect other drivers.
I think when it comes to headlight annoyances, 4WD’s are the culprits. Their high-mounted headlights are a constant annoyance and provide a very real danger to motorists as their beams are projected at eye-level, and unlike fog lights – which may only pose a momentary issue whilst coming toward you, and are not an issue from traffic behind – 4WD lights are a constant issue regardless of which direction they are going. Standards should be introduced to prevent the installation of headlights beyond a certain height as in my opinion they pose a far greater risk than fog lights.
Yes, its the “don’t I look cool front fog lights” I’ve been blinded by many ute drivers who dim their main lights but have the front fogs going.
Some cars are worse than others, but once again lack of public awarness doesn’t help.
I am in NZ and we have the same problem here. A lot of people drive with headlights (dip) or fog lights on for safety on our terrible roads during the day which is understandable (however the traffic Police in their wisdom have now decided to start issuing tickets to people using lights during the day. Another revenue gathering tactic when people are just trying to increase their visibility to avoid getting collected by some inattentive driver).
But it is at night when these turkeys cause the real annoyance even in the built up areas. However lets be honest the foglights you refer to are not real foglights.
I have a VY S fitted with the SS ‘foglights’. These are in fact a driving light as they have a clear lens (not yellow) and they do not direct the light low enough to be classed a fog light. They are also wired incorrectly so that they can be used at all times the lights are on including when main beam is operational.
The ‘foglights’ should automatically extinguish when main beam is selected at the least, and preferably when dip is selected. My brother has a VN SS with factory foglights and they are wired so that the fog lights only operate when park lights are on, or main beam is selected (obviously no traffic coming towards you at that time) – dip will not operate when the foglights are on.
As for the clowns who use the the rear foglights. Obviously they have never followed anyone with them on. They are very distracting and even camouflage the brake lights when they come on.
It’s like hey I have and extra switch and bulbs in my car – Look at me!!!!!
People need to read their owners manual and raod code a bit more often to understand their vehicle and the road rules around light operation.
Good one George,
Everything evil is to be found on 4WD
But you’re OK with Vans, Trucks, and Buses no doubt.
I have been driving for 40 years now, and have NEVER had a problem with 4WD lights, or trucks, or buses.
I do object to fog lights though, especially the dweebs who swap them for 100w spotlights and aim them while affected by drugs and/or alcohol so they can act as aeroplane spotters.
I have no issues at all from fog lights… I dont know where this article is coming from, and I dont even have foglights so Im not biased!
QUOTE = Unbeknown to the driver, their fog lights are pissing me – and quite a few other road users – right off. Is there any logic whatsoever in using your fog lights during the day, or even during the night when there is absolutely NO fog around? Absolutely not.
ACTUALLY I have read in the past that some cars have daytime lights, like they are really dim, and supposedly statistics show it reduces crashes!
Here:
“The effectiveness of daytime lights in reducing accidents has been proven by research in a number of countries, including Canada, the USA, Finland, and Sweden. The systems have been shown to reduce multiple vehicle collisions by as much as 32 per cent. Finland was the first to make their use mandatory in 1972. Sweden followed suit in 1977.” – http://www.drivers.com/article/000000322
and
“50 percent of all accidents at junctions during the day are caused by not seeing other road users in time. As a solution to the problem, experts recommend switching on the low-beam headlights during the day or the use of additional daytime driving lights. When the low-beam headlights are switched on by the light sensor or rain sensor, the daytime driving lights remain on but are dimmed to the brightness of side lights.” – http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/.....ights.html
There are many more articles both for and against, but there is a reason for why people have their lights on (apart from tools who want to look ‘cool’ by having them on).
I do A LOT of driving and I notice people using fog lights during the day. During the day I find it odd to be using headlights at all, except on freeways. I’m in VIC but in WA it is law to drive with headlights on on the freeways at any time. Outside of being odd I have no problem with fog lights on during the day or at night. The misaligned ones are annoying but for the most part I like them, they look good at night. I drive a 380 Platinum and I am guilty of using them all the time. They do help illuminate the road. My problem is with those that are brighter than the actual headlights, they are dazzling but for the most part I like them. Funny just how many people have built up rage against fog lights.
Some of the problem is that they don’t reset themselves. In a BMW etc you have to press the foglight button every time you start the car but in a Hyundai, the button stays active until you turn it off again.
I think we would have less use if you had to press the button every time you started the car !
I think you’re a bit confused.
Aren’t fog lights mostly yellow, The light’s you are talking about are driving lights.
With regard to you being annoyed with them, I’m sorry but driving lights fitted by OEMs are legal and provide better visibility.
I used to own two WRXs in the past and found their standard headlights were not very powerful, therefore I used the driving lights to provide better visibility.
I’m all up for getting cars off the road that have DIY fitted driving lights as they most likely will be misaligned.
Cheers.
I drive a WRX and i have to admit, my fog lights are on permanently :)
i believe that fog lights and normal lights during the day, increase visibility and might reduce my chances of an accident.
in saying that though, the yellow fog lights (e.g. S13 silvias) really shit me off! There is never any fog here in QLD so all fog lights are next to useless really.. but as big vix said, cars with foglights tend to have ordinary head lights.
This is a very confussing subject as each state has different rules on them. Driving lights and Fog lights are different and yes I also thought that Fog lights were yellow but it seems manufactures give them different names ????????????? I understand that driving light come on when you turn your headlights on Fog lights are an extra switch??? Also been told driving lights not illegal to have durring day ? But then RAC here in W.A say they must be contected to high beam so they can be turned off when lights are dipped,And some car manufactures call them this so purchasers can use them. Holdens I have been told call them driving lights in their service books?? No idea don’t know anyone who owns one to get them to check.
This is what RAC SAY ON THEM HERE.
Extra driving lights
You can fit two extra driving lights to the front of the vehicle. They can’t be any higher than 1.4 metres from the ground. They must show a white light only and project a main beam in front of the vehicle.
You may fit one extra driving light in line with the centre of the vehicle.
The additional lights must extinguish when the headlamps are dipped and they must be capable of being extinguished separately.
Fog lights
You may fit two fog lights of equal power to the front of the vehicle at equidistance from the centre line of the vehicle and an equal height from the ground. The centres of the lamps must be not less than 600 millimetres apart.
Or you may fit one fog light in the centre of the vehicle with 2 lamps of a power not exceeding 7 watts, symmetrically fitted to the front of the vehicle, at an equal height from the ground and not less than 1.1 metres apart.
The fog lamp should be capable of showing a white or amber light, the beam must be deflected downwards or both downwards and to the left. The centre of the fog light should be no higher than the centre of any headlamp or alternative lamp (extra driving light) fitted.
The fog light can only be used under abnormal weather conditions (Fog, mist or conditions of restricted visibility) and cannot be used with any other lamp exceeding 7 watts.
If a single fog light is alight then it must be used with two lights not exceeding 7 watts.
Slight over reaction on your behalf, Gerhard Petersen. I believe I did refer to headlights as being the issue with 4WD’s, and was the only flaw I pointed out – a far cry from condemning them as evil.
In case you haven’t noticed in your forty long years of driving, most vans do have low-mounted headlights for the very reason I explained which is why I did not refer to them. Truck and bus drivers can be included, however with such a heavy payload they usually have better sense then to tail gate close enough for them to be a problem.
To be totally honest I don’t care if you have never had a problem – because I have, and thats my opinion.
I am with you Alborz, one would think it’s common sense to have them on . As soon as it rains mine are on and I just plead ignorant if I get pulled over. I don’t think there any brighter than some of head lights now available . If on the open road I have them on all the time and if I get some wanker on my tail I put the rear one on too that makes them back off fast!!!!!! Only if there on my tail though!!!
I personally would love to smash every single light that is used when not called for.
What some fail to realise is that as you get older, bright lights become more of a problem.
So that means that all these retards with their ‘look, I’m a moron’ lights on are actually doing is making it LESS safe for others.
Note to the police, start booking these fucktards will you please.
I’m ready to smashin……
It’s not only retards in Hyundai’s. I see a lot of Subarus and Euro cars with Rear Foglights on and they are totally F##kin useless.
Can’t you retards see the light on your dashboard that screams FOGLIGHT ?
As has been highlighted, statistics suggest having fog lights and the like on during the day can reduce crashes. As for being older and light somehow having an effect, get your hand off it, the light emmitted from fogs etc is drowned out by the sun… if its having that much of an effect on you then you shouldnt be driving as at night the glare must totally blind you!!! Great logic ‘me of course’.
Yep I know mine are on ,because if people are blinded by normal lights at night when their OLD!!!!! they shouldn’t be driving anyway. Once again how does it make it less safe when there on, you can’t see to start with at night??? There obviously not usless if there giving you grief!!! I am keeping mine on for people that cant see in the dark now !!!!!! Funny thing is in the country when its a long weekend and their trying to keep the road toll down they advise you to put your lights on . WHAT THE????????? Last time I got pulled up the Police man for having Fog lights on he said he has a WRX that he also had the FOG lights on in it even though but knows your not meant to have them on ,OK……..
^
Yes good point there are roads that actually have signs saying put your lights on! Here in NSW one such road is ‘Appin Road’, on the outskirts of Sydney it has claimed a few lives over the years… the fact they say put your lights on is further evidence it must reduce the chance of crashing! (Forgetting the stats of course which paint a clear picture!)
Rear foglights are the worst! As for the regular ones, in the 380, the can only be turned on when the parkers or full headlights are on and have to be turned on everytime even if you have used the “follow me home” thing where the headlights stay on for a set time after you get out and lock the car. And they are foglights not driving lights, get a new car brochure and check.
i remember seeing on one of those electronic sign boards (the kind you see on motorways mainly) that foglights must only be used in “adverse weather conditions” or there is a fine of $75. i’m assuming that’s for fog lights only though and not normal driving lights.
Sorry, I can’t see the difference between mis-aligned fog/driving lights and mis-aligned normal headlights – save for the obvious fact headlights are brighter and therefore more likely to result in upsetting other drivers. Why then do police supposedly target (factory fitted) foglights over mis-aligned ‘normal’ lights? Why the distinction?
As far as I’m aware, and others have pointed out, you *should* drive with lights on during the day, particularly in the country. Here in WA we have signs saying “headlights save lives” so I’m a bit lost as to how the police can issue an infringement if you’ve got any sort of front light on?
My 2 cent’s worth.
Yes, daytime running lights (DRL) save lives. They are mandatory in Canada, and certain other Scandinavian countries. But they are lower wattage than the normal low beams. You can see the difference when you turn on the low beam headlights. They actually get brighter going from DRL to low beam headlights. So no problems if certain people want to use their fog or driving lights as a form of DRL.
But nighttime is a different matter.
Personally I am fairly ambivalent regarding front fog or driving lights at night. I don’t use them, but as long as they are low and not too bright, I can tolerate them. But following the logic of certain posters above, if ‘more light is better’ why not run will all guns blazing at night??? Because it dazzles oncoming drivers, that’s why. So more watts is not always better at night.
As for rear fog lights, I think they should be banned in Australia. The new Z4 is particularly nasty with TWIN rear fog lights. They are so bright they actually overpower the rear brake lights. The next time you are doing 120kph in the fog and worried about someone ramming up your backside, feel free to use them. Otherwise they should not be used in urban driving. I drive a Territory which is renown for particularly bright high beams (see George’s post above), so I make it a point of ‘returning the favour’ when I come up behind an ignorant or intentional driver with rear fogs on.
So be warned, if you drive with rear fog lights on (anytime!) be prepared to see high beams in your mirrors or someone get in front of you then turn on their rear fog lights…
What is REALLY frustrating is where people drive with the REAR fog lights on and no front driving or fog lights on! Did they hit the wrong switch? Is it on purpose?
Can I claim being blinded by rear fog lights and not seeing rear brake lights as an excuse for ramming into someone at a stoplight? Similar to having no tail lights, it can actually be the person IN FRONT’s fault…
Smokin’R32 where have you been driving lately and how do you do so and survive with your eyes closed or blinkers on, i too agree this problem is beyond a joke, here in brisbane anyway, and cannot for the life of me work out who they are trying to impress, you cant see your own lights when your driving, who can afford to keep replacing the bulbs (lost count how many cars ive seen driving around with only ONE fog light working) And I too DONT use them as i am aware of the law regarding the use of FOG LIGHTS and annoyed at how distracting they can be especially dawn and dusk. When can we have a set of national road rules to go with our SO called national licenses and why dont we do the short form of driver educational tv advertisments that i used to so often see on tv as a kid, the ones about overtaking correctly & keeping left unless overtaking & seat belts save lives and so on, there were more, just cant remember all of them.Who else remembers those ?, i think they must have some impact until the federal government makes US ALL have at least five yearly written test for the road rules, no pass, no licence till you do.MAybe this would remove some of the dickheadery from our roads and make us all better and more informed road users.
I use my fog lights at night all the time. They throw like out to the side very well. If they are adjusted properly they don’t dazzle other drivers.
I tend to think this is what I call the mobile phone syndrome,remember the amount of whining you used to hear about mobile phone use any where. Now nearly everybody has one it has stopped.MMMMMMM
Yes YOBPOM, that is true, but like log fights mobile phones are also illegal to use whilst driving if you arent using a hands free, i dont know how many car, truck and even b – double drivers i see every day using mobile phones WITHOUT the use of a handsfree, and i see that as quite dangerous. And i agree with some of the comments that fogs lights too are dangerous to the point of dazzling on coming drivers, they are illegal to use in the way you use them if there is no fog, i find mine are the same in providing very good side vision,and are adjusted correctly but i dont use them unless there IS fog or adverse conditions like heavy rain etc, as the point is, it IS illegal and for good reason. The police will not accept “oh sorry i didnt know they were illegal” as an exceuse for not being fined as ignorance is no excuse.
Each of us has their oppinion i guess though.
OK, despite the prejudice rantings above regarding front ‘fog / driving’ lights i can not find anywhere in the australian road rules where it says you can only have them on if its foggy.
I drive a 4WD and actually have my front ‘fog’ lights set to come on when the headlights come on. This helps imensely with ‘near’ lighting due to the height of the headlights.
I have heared a policeman on the radio say its ok but i have also seen an off duty policeman whinge at someone for having them on. So no clarity there.
Personally i couldnt care if pimply WRX hoon has them on, as long as they are adjusted correctly, and yes, on a WRX they do look cool :-)
If theyre not blinding you and you still have an issue.. get over it and move on before you die worrying.
I am afraid fog lights are a sign of the self over community attitude of today. It doesn’t matter how dazzeling, distracting and dangerous they are to anyone else and their families, just so long as they THINK that they and their family are safer. Personally I like to make them even safer when they are behind me, I drop 20 below the speed limit. This generally moves them closer behind thus masking the lights with your boot, plus gives them incentive to overtake and annoy someone else.
Why is the road toll so high ???? Wrong question!!!!! How is the toll so low, given the attitude,expertise and logic of the majority of drivers.
Oh deary – no wonder we have such a high incidence of dopey driver problems when most of the pro-foggers can’t find the rules or don’t know them or don’t want toknow them! And the crappy excuses about whether a fog light is yellow or white – they can be either. Here in WA our road traffic authorities even place advertisements in our daily papers that the use of fog lights is NOT permitted unless it is “foggy” and then they CANNOT be used in combination with ANY other forward facing lights. End of story. Observing this rule is the same as observing the rule to drive on the left. So stop the crap you fogtards and follow the rules or go buy a pushbike. Oh by the way – improper use of foglights craps the hell out of me.
This article and some of the comments make for some good laughs. People … get the f$%k over yourselves. We have people doing 200km an hour in 60 zones, drink driving, people driving unlicenced or unregistered vehicles and you’re moaning about bloody what? FOG LIGHTS!!! They’ve NEVER bothered me. In fact when I see a car with fog lights, I sure as hell know I’m not going to change lanes accidentally right into him/her. I just don’t get some people. FOG LIGHTS!!! FOGLIGHT WHAT??? FURY??? Lord Jesus Christ help me … what next … will you be writing articles about the shape of people’s heads and how they distract you when you’re driving. Alright, this is ridiculous. I can’t even believe I wrote a comment here (LOL) … *eyes rolling*
This is a good article, however ‘fog lights’ and ‘driving lights’ are often mistaken for each other, ‘fog lights’ are coloured, usually orange to cut through the fog because ‘white’ light only makes fog worse.
Clear lenses and globes are called drving lights, and there is no law which states when to use driving lights, so whilst they still need to be positioned correctly, driving with driving lights on is not an offense at all
Mark E I’m with you- I drive a 4WD with xenon and xenon highbeam and driving lights and I’m of the belief that the rear fogger drivers are just keen to light up their backside so I tend to assist- they really are absurd and so unnecessary. Even in dense fog you switch them off once you have a car behind you. By law, in Germany for example, the visibility needs to be 50m or less.
I really find it hard to not react to rear fogs when on a country road behind someone for long so I try not to light up my lights but I’m only human…
Does anyone get annoyed by bi xenon headlights reflection in mirrors from vehicles approaching from behind passing you on your right side? A quote from a website’…the low beam is formed by moving a shutter between the bulb and the lens, thus blocking off a portion of the light…’
Suspect some of these units could be faulty if the shutter movement is incorrect.If so what is the effect or fix?
David, Xenon headlights are self leveling.
Much like halogen projector lights, over time they can become misaligned, all it takes is a screwdriver to fix. You just pop the bonnet open and twist the dial as necessary.
The problem with rear fog lights is that many drivers don’t know that they are on, or they think that extra red light make them safer, wrong, it makes the stop lights less visible. Now the front fog lights, they should never be switched on in good visibility, they illuminate intensly the area close to the vehicle (under the level of fog so the light does not get scattered by the fog), in clear conditions human eye accomodates to this high intensity causing actual reduction in long distance vision as long distance object are still weakly illuminated!!! The only exception to this is in modern cars where the fog lights illuminate also sides of the road, European road codes allow limited usage of fog lights in good weather conditions only when there is a series of consecutive sharp bends (as marked by road signs).
The next point is the day lights, the should have power equivalant 21W bulb, be aimed straight like long beams, and during their operation the side lights at front and rear must be off (the only exception is Poland where the rear lights must be also on, making wiring difficult). They should switch off when the parking,short or long beam is on.
The yellow light bulbs and lights cannot be sold in Europe only “all-weather” nad white bulbs are availbale. And the last thing the “peasent” Xenon conversion kits, they really blind the oncoming traffic, as idiots who install them are not aware that lights need to have different lenses, built-in self levelling, and headlight cleaning. Another forgotten problem are cheap asian replacement headlights which scatter light in all directions. I forgot to mention “tunning”: blue LEDs, smoked lenses, etc…
a fog light can be either amber or white. it’s not the color that makes it a “fog” light, but the beam pattern. a “fog” light has a wide beam pattern that only goes out a short distance from the vehicle, but spreads out wide in front. a “driving” light has a long, narrow beam that is projected way out in front of the vehicle and can be either white or yellow.
many european cars have “yellow” driving lights.
all car manufacturers use “fog” lights in their cars (if equipt) because “driving” lights are deemed “illegal” to use with the vehicles low beams, while the “fog” lights are illegal to be used with the high beams. also, any “fog” light with a bulb wattage greater than 55 watts, is also illegal.
i hope this clears up any confusion about fog and driving lights.
Fog lights/drivers lights don’t worry me that much during the day… heck even if someone had highbeams on during the day I’ll probably not notice, but during the night some cars do give me the sheets.
The problem I get is when these fogwits drive around with them on at night during wet weather… its bad enough with rain reducing visibility but with the extra set of lights bouncing off the reflective wet road coming at me, I’m pretty much driving blindly ahead until the car passes.
Rear fogs piss me off equally day or night. I tend to get pass them as fast as I can then either flash my own rear fogs or slow right down.
Agree 100%…….. you can also add the BA/BF XR series driving lights to the list of poorly aimed and way too bright! BA-BF Falcon and VX-VZ vehicles are among the most common on our roads and the number of them (XR6, XR8, SV6 and SS) with driving lights running non-stop is phenomenal.
As I’ve said elsewhere, the ONLY time they should be operable is when you have your Park lights illuminated or with high beam. It should be illegal for them to be used in conjunction with low beam.
Whether driving or fog lights – irritating lights – are useful as they signal “selfish dimwit” driving attempting to look cool whilst being a fool – as for the rear foglights… competing for stardom en route to an incompetence convention… warning “dickhead ahead” – so really they are very handy .. and VICPOL now have their SS highway patrol cars driving with these irritating lights too .. in the city… pity they don’t have any rear foglights to confirm the above…..
Whoever reckons Fog/Driving lights look COOL, probably has a metal bar through their eyelid or an earring through their lip or drives one of those poofy wrx’s with an exhaust pipe so big it nearly scrapes on the ground…Tossers!
Low beam headlights during the day are OK, as they are normally adjusted and standard wattages, but those fog/driving lights are so damn annoying and all over the shop. I just put my high beams on when they head toward me, if the tool has a problem and gets road raged, I’ll just rip his piece of metal off his face – losers…don’t even bother with any limp wristed tough talk “cool” looking lights maaaan replies, your just a poser.
I had fitted yellow fog lights to my old Datsun once only because I actually used to drive in areas where there was a chance of fog. I was pulled over in Aratula and was told by the police that it was illegal to have the on when not in foggy conditions as I had flicked the switch by accident.
I am in favour of having lights on in daylight as it makes a big difference to safety but not fog lights as they are much too bright.
Hey is an answer to all those numbats that drive around with their fog/road lights on,or missaligned low beams.If they are sitting behind you and its dazzling the crap out of you in your rear vision mirror,aim your external mirror at an angle that reflects back into their eyes and see how long they stay there for (not very long i can assure you).I know because i drive alot at night as a medical courier,and it works very well with xenon lights as well.And here’s an answer to those rear fog light fanatics,there isn’t one becuase they’re stuck in they’re own little world of make beleive.i have tried flashing high beam behind them no cure(done numerous times),pass them tap brake to tell them,put my own rear fog on for a little while .Turn off rear fog,slow down a little so they pass you and they do and guess what?!!! The rear fog light is still F#$&ING on so no hope there i guess.And apart from the do it yourself ,the worst factory set road/fog/driving light or what ever they call them depends on which school you go to.But the worst is G.M.H their cars more so hsv or ss cars,so much for sticking with A.D.R rules as to all head/driving/fog lights must be aimed correctly as not to dazzle on comiming traffic.There thats my two bobs worth see ya!!!!!!
Dazzled by low mounted driving lights (they are driving lights foglights are yellow to reduce dazzle)during the day! Pure crap! Get treatment for chrissake u sad people.
There is strong evidence that driving with lights on during the day. They are low mounted. Even better. Turn them on!
All lights must be properly aligned. No argument there.
Oh and for the gentleman (and any other)who is sensitive to glare. Glare is caused by reflected light. You need polarised driving glasses. They come in both day and night lenses. You will be amazed at the difference they make. I am over 50 and I am familiar with the you’re difficulty.
You have a problem and you should address it. If you don’t you are the one being inconsiderate of others’ safety.
Good visibility = improved safety. Turn on your lights and wear correct eyewear.
PS the mirror trick doesn’t work with the polarized glasses. I won’t even notice you you ar$ehole.
HAHAHA, Well said Geoff………I cant believe this post is STILL going. Does show that having our lights on means you do see us from all the lovely comments so far received. Don’t bother putting your lights on highbeam behind me either as my rear vision mirror dips automatically to I don’t care mode {true,not sure if that’s a mode but it does dip automatically}. I have probably got the rears on as your too bloody close anyway. Pimply Rex drivers ,that was a little harsh there most likely got their front foggy’s on as your doing bloody 80 in the right hand lane on a 100 klm freeway . How do you get front fog lights in your mirror anyway ? Do you drive a billy cart?
I actually like the new headlights/ fog lights that are installed on new cars and think that the Commodore VY SS etc.. have great looking foggies.
If your in WA i look forward to pissing you off with my 80W Xenon Blue fog lights, and my 100W Xenon Blue headlights which i also use during the day time.
I don’t know about you guys, but i have seen the worst drivers in the country over here in WA and i want them to know i’m coming so they don’t hit me!!
If you did all of your research you would find that VT-VZ commodore factory fitted fog lights arent adjustable in any way, they are fixed in the one spot.
If you get pleasure from pissing other people of with your lights then good luck to you til you meet your match. As for all the debate about lights, foglights or driving lights, who cares what they are called. When other cars are heading your way (on-coming traffic) do you really want to dazzle or blind these people as you’re about to (hopefully) pass one another. Rear fog lights, useful for dense fog, or as B Missile says for tailgaters but that’s about it.
http://www.transport.qld.gov.a.....hicles.pdf
CHECK THIS LINK
I always have & always will drive with my ‘fog-lights’ on day & night. I prefer to think of them as ‘driving-lights’ however the handbook states ‘fog-lights’ so I’ll stay with that definition – as I believe that corresponds with NSW RTA definitions anyway (rightly or wrongly). Reason: I don’t trust any other driver on the road, & I especially don’t trust them to see my vehicle. My instinct is that most drivers who drive with their lights on during the day are more aware & alert drivers to their environment anyway. Most urban drivers have no real experience in driving in the country & that is where the real lessons of visibility are learn’t (ask any truckie or sales rep). The main bad wrap re: ‘fog-lights’ is bought ablout by mis-alignment; & this is what law enforcement should focus on. The main culprits of mis-alignment are HSV Commodores & I’m convinced for a number of years HSV spat them out to the dummies who buy such rubbish without correct alignment – I’ve seen too many HSV’s with the problem to think otherwise.
The problem with fog / driving / spot lights (Call them what you will), is that the amount of extra light they produce when compared to standard 55W beams…
For oncoming drivers it takes extra time for the eyes to adjust to this light.
Drivers with them on dont understand the problem, as their eyesight becomes accustomed to the extra light output that they are outputting….
To anyone that will defend the use of these SECONDARY lights to the death… Seriously guys ! They dont look cool, they dont make it safer for you, as the glare can cause temporary blindness to the traffic that you are trying to be SEEN by, they are a nuisence, and I encourage anyone that is peeved by these arrogant and selfish drivers to highbeam them in return…
Show them how cool you think they are with their lights, by showing them that you have a type of annoying secondary lights too…
I’m actually going to do that now… What a great suggestion matti jones. Good job.
..so 2 blind drivers heading toward each other are better than one blind…… fog/ driving lights – if these people have no other joy in their lives than to have their foglights to play with, …. sad for them….. it’s frustrating but unfortunately I can’t reach in and switch their lights off …. and I look at this way (only for my own sanity) I have met some nice ppl who drive with their foglights on, so…
I think fog lights are’nt so much of problems when it comes to some drivers pissing other drivers off..
the one thing that absolutely pisses me off is SUV’s or 4×4’s at night. im sure all sports car drivers would agree that there is nothing worse than driving past a 4×4 with their low beams on.. its like passing a f**king ufo with lights bright enough to blind you for a week.
because they’re so high up and we’re so low is what’s probably causing the problem. not only are they a safety problem and quite intimidating to smaller cars, they still blind the shit out of other drivers. i say they should stick to the bush where they belong and not be used as family cars.
My car has low down mounted driving lights as standard. I turn these on when travelling through fog or low level cloud. As I drive on a lot of country roads in NSW, the law permits one to turn their headlights on even during the day. You really can see the approaching car if they have their headlights on during the day, especially if you are intending to overtake a slower vehicle in front of you.
My car has two switches for the driving/fog lights, one for the front ones and one for the rear mounted ones. I use the rear mounted fog lights when I am driving through foggy areas too. I also turn them on when a vehicle with all front lights blazing in urban areas starts to tailgate me. Once the tailgater has turned off the road or passed me, I turn the fog lights off. Otherwise, the fog lights are rarely used, although my headlights are often used.
Keep left as much as possible, head for the gaps on roundabouts and remember to be courteous as possible with all road users and pedestrians and then we will all have a lovely day.
The law clearly states they are only to be used in inclement weather. This does not limit their use to only foggy situations, however care should be taken when they are used, and drivers should ensure that they are used appropriately. I have used mine along with my headlights during the day on rural and heavily wooded roads. As far as I’m concerned, they are appropriate in that situation. On a well lit city/suburban street however, there is simply no need unless the weather calls for it.
The NSW law states that under low-beam there can only be 2 forward facing lights eluminated unless under adverse weather conditions. So if the weather is fine and your approaching another car and your driving lights are on as well as your headlights then thats illegal.
The only time I have my Foglights on is when its raining, foggy or driving in the country at night. The car im driving is silver so even in light rain its hard to see so i have no problem if someone does the same, but when its fine then that annoys me.
Rear foglights on hyundais should NOT be on unless its Raining, Foggy or they have broken down on the side of the road, no excuses.
Everytime i see a car with its foglights on in clear conditions i will return the favour by flicking on my hi-beams just to let them know they are breaking the law and ofcorse to piss them off aswel.. i am probably breaking the law by doing this but its the only way i can think of to vent my frustration.
Yes I agree with all the comments. If the lights were truely ‘fog’ lights, then they would have a yellow beam. I believe the problem here is the type of light selected by the manufacturers. For best light in foggy conditions, you want to limit the amount of upward light generated by the lights. It seems as though most of the modern lights do not do this very well. Perhaps then, it more a case of the relevnt standards should be reviewed.
I am like most other people, whereby I use these lights on my offending VZ Commodore in inclement conditions such as rain etc. I do howevere like the idea of people using these lights during the day on the open raod. It does help to see the other car particularily if it is a dark color. This is extremely useful when driving into the sun of an afternoon.
As for the HYundai’s with tha rear fog lamp, I wish i had a red spot light mounted on my rear bumper so I could get their attention of how stupid they are. Let me guess, they think they are being safe by having this little inferno shining in your face. These people don’t generally have accidents, but manage to cause quite a few.
Now, where did I put those blood pressure tablets?
Do some of you even think before your type? Fog lights are yellow, yes, because yellow it is a much defined colour and cuts through fog with limited light scatter. They were designed in the 1950’s in Europe. I don’t really know why today’s fog lights are no longer yellow. I own an SV6 that has “fog” lights installed and from now on every car I own will have OEM fog lights installed. I do agree with your comments about the “home job” fog lights that are really dangerous but let me say this. If you have not driven a car with fog lights installed you don’t know what you are missing out on. It’s truly the clearest vision you will ever have. Also for those idiots who flash me with their high beam because I have fog lights I usually flash them back with my HID Xenon’s which are in all my headlights including my fog lights. Most of the time it causes them the either stop flashing their high beams, or it causes them to pull over. Either way I win so I don’t really care.
On another point “front” fog lights are not illegal so some of you need to check your facts. Rear fog lights on the other hand are illegal to use in “non-hazardous” conditions but I must say I have never seen these used before but I can imagine how bright and dangerous they can be.
I am all for fog lights. I have them on my car and it’s not to look good it’s purely for great visibility. In saying that I can assure all of you I don’t use any lights during the day unless its really pouring down, otherwise its pointless and people who do use fog lights during the day look like tossers. But let’s not tell them that just point and laugh like I do.
So, in conclusion, im all for the fogies. And to all you people having a cry about them, grow up, get a life and buy a car with fog lights.
“either way I win..” SV6 – you sure don’t think like a winner to me, but plenty of other things come to mind – but “if you find yourself arguing with an idiot you are probably doing the same things” … so I’ll stop here and leave you to it in your SV6 – enjoy your weekend -
andre, what I actually mean by that is I don’t appreciate people who flash their highs at me when I have done nothing wrong. I am not doing anything wrong by using my fog lights and I always turn them off when I am following someone. It takes a lot to annoy me on the road and I can understand when people “forget” to turn down their lights, but when people are using their highs against me, flashing them on and off i cant help but to return the favour. I didn’t mean to come across as arrogant.
No prob- just was amused at your initial comments as I just don’t think it is about winning cause it is more about surviving- what if you blind a B-double who crosses your path- who wins then- again, I’m not trying to be rude or so but I think games are best played elsewhere. Foglights can be white or yellow and are illegal whether at the front or rear unless conditions are adverse. They are handy though if one headlight is out to still have lights either side. Anyhow- let’s all try and get on- and be safe. Good night
Has any one actually found out if they are illegal or not or are you all guessing.
You can have them on during the day, no problems but at night they are illegal to have on (with your head lights)in a built up area. e.g if your driving down the freeway its fine,if your driving around houses, yes its illegal.
And for all who hate day time uses, bad luck, i drive a black car and prefer to have them on so people see me.(Its obviously working, non of you sooks have hit me yet)
I suppose it depends on where you live. In QLD fog lights are not illegal and you can have them on any time (day or night) in fact I have been stopped for an RBT and the police suggested I turn my fog lights on. The only fog lights that are illegal are rear fog lights which can only be used when there is extreme weather. Call me bored but I researched this :(
My 91 suzuki swift gti which i use as my pizza delivery car has foglights/driving lights fitted from the factory, i use them at night because they increase my viewing angle so it comes in handy when im looking for a house. I did a little test and switched them on and off to see if they’d help me see better in a straight line, but i found that they were useless in that regard. the point i’m trying to make is that if they aren’t increasing my straight line view then how could they be distracting other drivers? (i figure that mine are alligned properly since they are factory fitted)
Hi All
I have driven trucks for 18 years.
Hi beam (driving lights),and fog lights are the worst problems we have to put up with.
I could mention ppl with trailers and caravans that dont adjust their low beam but I won’t. (sorry i just did).
Ok All I really want to say is, When the other person cannot see,Do you really want it to be me, on the corner, at the bend, or over the hill at 100km.
Just love all your reasons to have fog lights on.
p.s. I must say I do love my 4 Rally 4000 :)
thanx
Z
I drive B doubles interstate for the past five years & I’ve found that 95% of car drivers don’t look at tha dashboard except for the fuel gauge.
What I can’t understand is that if those ‘white’ lights are what people call fog lights, then has anyone driving with these turned on actually driven in fog with normal headlights? The light just bounces back and you can’t see a thing in front of you!
The idea of the yellow (amber) colour was to penetrate the fog and show the edges of the road.
Just adding a couple more little notes.Proper fog lights don’t necesarily have to be yellow but the glass is fluted to put the light out at an angle, not straight ahead, so that it does not reflect off the fog and back in your face. So any supposed light (clear glass) that can dazzle oncoming traffic is not really a fog light but a spot light which really should be connected to turn off on low beam by law.
Just want to clear up some facts. Firstly the difference in legislative terms between fog lights and drivinglights are that driving lights are required to switch off when the headlamps are dipped to low beam. The front foglamps are wired so that they come on when the position lights(parkers) are on. There is no National regulatory requirements for the output for front foglamps. Only that they are correctly aligned and do not affect other drivers.
Secondly, as people age, their eyesight is generally affected and one of the first areas to go is the ability to adjust to light. Therefore vehicles with oncoming headlights which are nearly 3 times brighter than vehicles of 15 years ago combined with foglights leaves a pretty big light source which affects the driver far sooner than before. Much like highbeam of vehicles of the 1970’s.
So all you guys that believe that it is O.K, how about thinking of the dangers you are causing. I am ok thanks Jack!!!!!!!
Don’t forget that the fog/driving lights also have their own switch. So it is a deliberate choice to have them turned on.
from what i have researched there is no law regarding the use of fog lights (which do differ from driving lights), with the exception of using couloured ones. this is not allowed except in fog. white lights may be used whenever you like. but there is a law regarding dazzling oncoming drivers. a prick cop can book you using this fuzzy law. you could try to defend it in court, but seeing it is a subjective thing it could be hard.
i have both types of lights on my car, fog lights oem and driving lights after market. i use either or both when the conditions call for it.
One more thing. The idea of fog lights is to show the left edge of the road and some of the area immediately in front of your vehicle…maybe 10metres or so. If the fog is thick enough to need them turned on, then you will be driving very slowly so as to avoid any possible unseen dangers in front of you.
Therefore, in normal conditions where you can drive fast, by the time you see an obstacle highlighted by the fog lights, you have run over it!
Normal headlight beams would have shown the obstacle much sooner than the fog lights! So what is the purpose of having them on under normal conditions if what they show is too late to react to? Waste of battery power if you ask me.
Big Dozer, where do you drive that needs fog lights?
Driving lights in the country at night, I agree with. I used to have a single 100w light that created broad daylight for about 1/2 km.
Ever driven on a road with a lot of pot holes at night? Without my Fog Lights on some roads, I end up seeing the pot holes too late to avoid them, with my Fog Lights on I can usually see them early enough to avoid it.
I don’t know about you, but I would rather use that extra battery power than risk blowing a tyre in a big pothole and spending $300 on a new one.
And yes peoples eye sight start getting bad as they get older, but they also have glasses for that. Saying people are making it dangerous because you have extra lights is stupid, do the street lights blind you too? Why don’t you complain about those too? If lights cause that much trouble for you people, you shouldn’t be on the road to begin with.
I agree with the rant, I have a term for these people Fog Wits !
If you are talking about people driving with them on for no reason during the day. Then yeah, I might agree with you.
If you’re talking about people that use them for increased visability at night… Drive a car with Fog Lights first before calling us “Fog Wits” you narrow minded tool.
And you are obviously very broad-minded Jeff – how slow do you drive that your fog lights aid you so much in realizing pothole ahead – thanks for an outstanding laugh – perhaps you have really poor headlights, or maybe superman reactions. Samir: well said! Personally I think all of this is very amusing.
Jeff:
According to you, fog lights help you see pot holes.
You do know that fog lights simply fill the 1.5m void between the bottom phase of your headlights and the space between the front of your car.
Technically, you would have to miss the pot hole for a full 100m or so through your regular headlights to only catch it in that 1.5m field your fog lights fill.
Good theory Jeff. You should stick to being the main character in the wiggles mate. Leave the driving to the grown ups.
A Wiggles joke, new AND original. /sarcasm
As for my speed, I was driving about 70. 1.5m extra lighting from my Fog Lights? Do you even drive a car with Fog Lights? And yeah my Head Lights aren’t the best, can’t see crap in some places where I need my Fog Lights to assist. Not like I use them ALL the time.
Well that’s fine, keep thinking up of Wiggles jokes. I’m not here to argue, I was just giving my opinion, shows how grown up some people are.
Oh, and I also said SOME roads with potholes. That doesn’t mean I use them on all roads, some roads are, you know, darker than others where high beams aren’t possible because I would be blinding the other people even moreso than my lolFogLights.
It would appear many are confused and discussion is pointless; they are FOG lights and should only be used under those circumstances because that is what they were designed for. If they were for spotting ‘pot holes’ they would have been designed to throw a slightly longer beam and would have been called (wait for it) pot hole lights.
You guys are dumb, don’t even read half the shit people say. No they’re not designed for pot holes, but if it helps aid in seeing them, wouldn’t it be a good idea to turn them on instead of blindly driving over them?
Why don’t you people complain about something that isn’t so stupid, like people that cut you off, don’t indicate when changing lanes, or people who don’t dip their High Beams.
Wait until you are following a late-model Range Rover with its ultra-bright, retina-searing tailights switched on. Even if you drop back a few hundred meters, they are still shocking. (Red light doesn’t make your pupils constrict, as they do when dazzled by oncoming lights). This is almost as dangerous as people in cars that have permanently lit dash-lights forgetting to turn on their headlights at night …
Always wondered why there were people driving around at night without their Headlights on… Never knew they had cars with permanant lit dash-lights. :S
I have had a 2005 XR6 and now own a XR8. The lights are not fog lights, they just throw light out to the sides of the car. Low Beam will throw light a lot further forward and higher.
Whats the difference between motorcycles and cars having their lights on during the day?
Ron – be assured, your XR lamps ARE ADR’ed FRONT FOG LAMPS. See the designation “02B” or just the letter “B” near the E Mark!
If in doubt, arrange a meeting with HWP, ensure you have them on first:-)
Front fog lamps may be WHITE-OPTIC or SELECTIVE YELLOW. 99% of cars on the road today use WHITE OPTIC.
The HELLA handbook tells us a yellow fog lamp can lose up to 15% of its luminous efficiency compared to a white-optic version of same. That said, I don’t care and am happy having white-optic OR selective yellow front fogs -for the conditions allowed, vis-
AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULE 217 has been updated to include a prohibition on the use of FRONT FOG LAMPS, WHITE OR YELLOW, there use is restricted to HAZARDOUS WEATHER CONDITIONS CAUSING REDUCED VISIBILITY.
In EUROPE, the front fog lamp is OPTIONAL, only the REAR fog lamp is mandated for good reason for all vehicles including light trailers. The rear fog lamp you see IS your the primary defence against low visibility crash occurrence in heavy fog, rainfall, dust, bushfire smoke etc, simply becuase your standard taillights are rendered utterly worthless in even moderately bad visibility.
The time will come, rightly, that these will be mandated for new market vehicles, it is negligent that this is not the case already.
EUROPE is moving to MANDATORY DRL’s – Daytime Running Lamps AND where not equipped to a mandatory LOW-BEAM headlights ON requirement.
Under ADR and World Standards (UNECE Regs) FRONT fog lamps are NOT a DRL. Each has differing bulb power and photometric performance.
Australia also needs to update its *required* new market vehicle equipment list vis;
1. Adoption of EN471/AS1906.4/1999 high-visibility safety vests, that in Europe and other places must be worn by the roadside when a car has broken-down, OR at a crash scene by road users.
The other item is to create for passenger cars, vans and 4WD’s (ADR MA/MB/MC) is for UNECE Regulation 27 in Transport as imparted in a new “UN Convention on Road Traffic etc”, this regulation represents photometric and quality performance requirements for a ‘hazard-warning triangle’. Mandatory in EU and China, the device is used per the vest situation above.
ENFORCEMENT: – The use of front fog lamps in NSW in clear weather will land you a mere $75 penalty, expect to see demerit points earning increased for this.
Every nation that subscribes to the UNECE regs also prohibits the use of front fog lamps in the same manner, that needs to be understood.
We cant do anything about the absolute morons who dont know anything about the instrumentation or indicators on their cars, or whether their lights are pointing up to search for overhead aircraft unless we drastically change the standards required to obtain a drivers licence, but thats another topic.
But people who choose to drive with incorrectly aligned or dazzling fog lights or headlights should realise that they are putting lives at risk including their own.
It only takes a split second for an oncoming car especially on a bend to be dazzled by your headlights and plow on straight ahead into you.
Its not only considerate but safe to make sure your lights are always correctly aligned and dipped.
It goes the other way as well though. If you want to reuce dazzle make sure you windows and mirrors are clean.
The driving lights are illegal in NSW unless raining or foggy.
I think alot of people don’t realise they have left them on.
My subaru does not reset them after I turn the head lights and car off so I have accidently had them on a couple of times.
Will be my luck I get the fine for forgetting to turn them off from the last foggy evening….
Alot of the newer Fords seem to love having them on illegally (NSW) as they are the ones that glare alot.
Andrew –
REM “Terminology” is important here. In technical aspect, the term “driving lights” only relates for lamps used to supplement and improve existing HIGH-BEAM performance.
Such, are wired to only operate when the vehicles regular high-beam switch is activated, unlike front fog lamps, which in AUS, are permitted to operate on park, low and high-beam.
I really cannot see what the problem with these “fog-lights’ is. During the day they have absolutely no effect on you, as they are drowned out by the sightly brighter SUN. And at night they are totally drowned out by the main headlight anyway.
I drive a VX Commodore with the fog-lights installed, and they are always turned on, just like my headlights. When my car is turned on, so are my headlights and fog-lights. And I don’t know about other model cars, but my headlights run at 90/100W while my fog-lights are only 55W. So like I said, they are not going to blind you or anything at night.
There are a lot of other big issues regarding lights on cars that I believe are more important:
1. 4WD that have headlights so high that the beam is perfectly focused in my eyes, effectively reducing my visiblility to diddly-sh!t.
2. The idiots who drive without ANY lights on at night. C’mon people haven’t you noticed you can see your dash.
3. People who use their high-beam but don’t turn it off when you get close. (Another related one is people who use high-beam when they are driving around in little housing estates. There are friggin streetlights every 10 metres, why the hell do you need high-beam!!! I am sick of high powered light shining in my bedroom window and waking me up.)
4. People who put the illegal brightness bulbs in their cars. SeriouslyI went to Autobarn the other day for a new set of headlight bulbs. I asked them what the difference between the ultra-bright and normal bulbs were, he said the brighter ones are illgal!! Well then why are you selling them!!!
Anyway that wasmy two cents worth of rant, enjoy.
People – RTFM! Check to see what the wattage on your car’s “driving lights” really is. Quite a lot of them (my car included) are factory fitted with 100 watt globes. That is like driving with your high beam on. Think about it.
The absolute worst lights are the ultra bright ones on 4WDs that are aimed directly at your wing mirrors and thus, straight into your eyes.
Adrian –
* Your headlight wattages quoted, (my headlights run at 90/100W) are above that which your headlights are certified, ‘a defect’.
* Again, front fog lamps are designed for a purpose, not as defacto DRL’s.
1. 4WD headlights have the same photometric and beam characteristics as a low-to-ground Ferrari or Daewoo, perhaps the glare you note is because of people like you, those who raise the headlight wattages from standard:-)
2. Agreed, but also add those who drive in ‘hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility’, here it is an offence to NOT have either your low-beam and/or front fog lights on. (See ARR 215).
3. Agreed.
4. You admit and are guilty of this same offence yourself, second para reference to 90/100watts!! No headlight is complianced at that wattage under any regulatory environment, particularly for low-beam. BUT REMEMBER, whilst ‘high-wattage’ is one item that can put a headlight out of compliance and cause undue glare, it is perfectly legal and often advantageous to install marketed “PLUS 50 (or 30 et al)”, or “Arctic Blue” and “All Weather” bulbs into a headlight, and you will keep that headlight in compliance.
You do however need to look closely at a bulbs steel portion to see an ‘E Mark’, this is an ‘E’ or ‘e’ in a circle with a number next to it, example; (E13). These bulbs are automatically ADR compliant for headlight (and other lamp function) use.
Some glare is caused by people who ‘modify’ headlights by use of HID modifications, manually realigning the lamp parabol etc and so on.
ANNOYED – No compliant factory fitted or key aftermarket supplier ‘front fog lamp’ is supplied with 100 watt bulbs. That doesn’t stop fools from doing so.
BOB – your observations are similar to Adrian, note the 90-100watt reference, folk do that stuff and it is one reason, of many, why ‘glare’ complaints are high. Accept also that when a vehicle is loaded, that use of the rotary headlight leveller, where fitted – should be made to compensate for nose lift, for example when towing et al.
The national prohibition on the use of front fog lamps in clear weather conditions is one answer to help combat complaints of distraction and glare.
COMMODORE SS VX-VY Series: This unit is recognised by state policing authorities as being the source of a high number of complaints, in part owing the high numbers of them registered. The particular ‘fog lamp’ native to these, does NOT bear UNECE world conformity markings, basically meaning the car could not be sold anywhere in the world with them, BUT they got away with it in Australia.
The particular lamps, sourced from South Korea by GMH are discontinued, current SS Commodores are fitted with compliant units once again. HSV version of those year models were NOT affected, they had ‘different’ and E marked compliant fog lamps, though from the same source!
I like to call them wanker lights, because that’s what the people are that use them. If you look up the Queensland Traffic Act – section 71 or 72 (I can’t recall which one)it clearly states that the use of these ligts is intended to assist the driver in hazardous conditions. Driving around the city with them on is just a pose. “look at me, I’ve got a nice car”
“my headlights run at 90/100W” damn, did I really say that, my headlights are 60/55W bulbs, dunno where the hell I pulled that last 90/100W out of!!!
This foglight crap has been driving me crazy for years. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but this is my understanding of how foglights are supposed to be properly used:
The front lights should be mounted as close to the corners of the vehicle and as close to the ground as possible. fog tends to be thinner at ground level, so there is less scattering of the light and reflecting off water droplets.
Fog lights should be used only in severe FOG. They should be used INSTEAD of, not AS WELL AS normal low-beam headlights. There is no scenario where headlights + foglights is appropriate. Neither is there any daylight situation where foglights are appropriate. On that basis, I would say that I’ve never seen an example of foglights being used correctly.
In fact, the only fitting application for foglights is at night in pea-soup sort of fog. Arguably, nobody should even attempt to drive in such conditions, so foglights should not even exist.
Rear foglights which emulate brake lights are almost as big a menace.
There appears to be no standards for these lights, as no two manufacturers implement them the same way. We have Subarus with foglights the size of dinner plates, while others are tiny pinpoints seemingly aimed directly at your eyes. Often the apparent brightness approaches that of high beam headlights
There is widespread assumption that foglights are yellow, so if they are white, they are driving lights. This isn’t true. Studies have shown that yellow foglights have no advantage over white ones.
The offenders in this area can be roughly divided into two groups: Those who left them on by mistake, or who don’t even know they’re on; and the showboaters, saying “Look at me!” including idiots who think it’s a good idea to use foglights as Daytime Running Lights (DRLs). Foglights are emphatically NOT DRLs. They are mounted too low and are far too bright for that purpose.
I enquired at the RTA office last year, while I was doing my rego, as to what is the official attitude to foglights. The person (who just happened to be the manager) told me that foglights are to be used only in fog. When I asked what could be done about people having them on whenever they feel like it, he suggested I might flash my high beams at them to remind them. I found that quite interesting.
The one ‘fog lamp’ that should be mandatory listing in ADR for new market vehicles is in fact the rear fog.
It is a proper, active ‘primary-defence’ action against poor visibility crash occurence that a driver can make. Standard taillight performance is quite frankly rendered worthless in even moderate daytime rain on a freeway, let alone in bushfire smoke, fog, dustorms etc. The rear fog lamp really should have been mandated here in the 1980’s.
Not having a mandatory rear fog lamp requirement has resulted in Australia creating the world-unique allowance of using a vehicles hazard-warning lights when – ‘driving under under hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility’. Created by NSW following a 53 car pile-up in fog in the 1980’s on the F6, and THEN adopted nationally via the Australian Road Rules process back in the late 1990’s, to act as defacto rear fog lamps! (Make no mistake, the rear fog lamp IS brighter).
NSW would have been better advised to make it a state requirement for registration for a new market vehicle to be fitted with a rear fog lamp instead, and it could have then given manufacturers three years lead-in to comply with such requirement. This would then have had the effect of forcing federal action to mandate same.
A similar example that took place; WA went it alone and created a requirement that engine immobilisers had to be fitted, or a vehicle could not be registered in that state! This state action lead to the federal office playing urgent catch-up which resulted in the creation of ADR 82 – Engine Immobilisers.
Back for fog lamps a moment, only one fog-lamp is mandatory vehicle equipment in the world, and that is the rear unit as required by European ‘directive’, front fog lamps on the other hand – are, and always will be ‘optional’, everywhere.
Enforcement is a matter for police and education of the item is mentioned in all state and territory driver manuals. Governing Australian Road Rule is 217.
ITEMS –
ADR13 governs ‘yes or no requirement’, wiring and mounting of lamps generally, including for front and rear fog lamps in relation to passenger cars, van and 4WD categories. (MA, MB, MC).
ADR’s – are ‘Australian Design Rules’ and these apply to new market vehicles. What applies after this stage is the ‘NVS’-National Vehicle Standards. These NVS are basically re-printed ADR with some mild variation.
Australian design Rules are in turn increasingly harmonised with the United Nations Transport Division, the UNECE process.
That all said, existing ADR52 ‘rear fog lamp’, which is UNECE transport Regulation 38, – holds that the rear fog lamp is a ‘mandatory requirement’ for all vehicles including light trailers. Australia hops off this mandatory requirement and saves a few dollars per car domestically, by allowing importers and manufacturers to not fit such a lamp owing Part 8.5.1 of ADR13! (This section of ADR13 is negligent and needs to change).
Our ADR13 is somewhat unique in the world, it effectively allows us to dumb-down and lessen safety and other requirement for this market in relation to lighting items, and to create or make other world-unique requirement.
Heavy vehicle category has a similar rule at ADR19.
Australia is yet to create a ‘warning triangle’ specification and requirement-to-carry for passenger cars, vans, 4WD’s, or for that of a ’safety vest’ yet. Each item now mandatory supply in all vehicles in EU (and now must be used) and even China. These two newish safety items now form part of a newly developing ‘UN Convention on Road Traffic, Road Signs & Signals’ that is to replace existing.
We’ll get it right, some day.
People who leave their fog lights on when there is no fog, generally speaking have a very poor intelligence and have no understanding of the reasons why it is illegal to drive with them on when there is no fog.
In years past when most cars just had simple headlights with highbeam, the hoons of the day installed DRIVING lights on their cars, mostly positioned just between the headlights. These were annoying but at least they did not suffer from the annoying characteristics of the wide beam fog lights.
Driving lights have a fairly narrow beam of light that is designed to project light over a long distance. If properly focussed, they create minimal disturbance to oncoming traffic. They were generally wired in with the high beam of the headlights, so that when the high beam was turned off, so were the Driving lights.
Not so with fog lights. They are separately wired, and have their own independent switch. So dimming or dipping the highbeam does not do anything with the fog lights unless the hoon makes a concious effort to turn them off.
The fog light also has a very wide beam of light, and this is what makes them especially annoying because even though the oncoming car may not be in direct line with the headlights, the fog lights stayed focussed on the oncoming car even when it is passing on the side.
So it is quite obvious that people who drive with fog lights on when there is no fog are clearly braindead, and should have licences cancelled as they are a threat to other peoples safety.
Therefore fog lights are meant to be mounted low on a car so they can illuminate the road under the fog. Stangely enough, there is always a layer of clear air just below the fog. This is the area that fog lights should be operating in.
Hurrah to Keepleft, Mot Adv-NSW for providing some real facts and insight into this discussion.
Too often in these types of forums, posters spout off the first thing that comes to their head without any idea of what they are really talking about.
You also raise some really impotant issues about safety standards – I can’t believe that we are not adopting some of these standards – I hope the press takes notice and champions the cause!
What I can’t stand is
1) people who drive around Sydney with BOTH Xenons and fog fog lights on in perfectly clear weather (be it night or day) or
2) people who drive at night with just their fog lights on! or even better,
3) people who drive around with only one fog light illuminated!
Fog lights/driving lights, whatever you all want to call them they are the same thing.
From in the vehicle turn them on and see what difference they make…None.
They are a non-directional light (meaning they cant be aimed) and therefore can dazzle oncoming road users (and thats a no-no in the road rules).
After driver-training all around the country and asking the question to people if they have ever been booked using them I got the affirmative from 3 people (out of the gazillion that I have asked).
I then ask people if they use them, then why considering their total in-effectiveness and here are the three main responses.
1. “I can’t see without them” – (these lights project no more than about 10 meters forward of the car on the road, which means that you are not scanning the road ahead, but instead looking at the road straight in front of you – very common in most drivers and a scary habit)
2. “They’re standard on my car so they can’t be illegal” – (so are the high-beams, but you dont see me driving around with them on all the time)
3. “I dont want people to think I’m driving the base model” (comes mostly from SS and XR owners)
There is no fog…turn them off!
I think it comes down to this:
Day time good conditions: Low beams or parking lights on if you’re want to be safe. They are correctly postioned so others can see you, but not be bothered by you.
Night time good conditions: Low beams
Poor conditions: regular low beams and fog/driving lights.
Got it everyone???
While I think responding to another persons bad driving is bringing you down to their level, I think if everyone flashed their high beams at these tools driving with their fog/driving lights on would go some way to eliminating the problem..
In my state we have the ‘little weiner’ ad, where you hold up your pinky finger.. that’s my other response to fog lights, road rage, wankers in 4wds.. yes you have little weiners.
Welcome to the new age where even police don’t care if u brake the light laws. This is the age of the light wars get equiped it’s time to fight back.
hey peoples, interesting discussion … ive driven many cars that have them … but generally dont turn them on, due to hearing so many people whinge about them, and the police even warning me during a routine booze bus stop, many years ago … so dutifully accepted.
Ive never really looked into / cared why, just accepted its not meant to be … but did find it a bit odd, they only seem to light a few metres infront of the car, lighting up the additional bit of road between the bottom of the low beams, and the front of your car which is typically a bit blacked out … in which case curiousity got me ;
how does that dazzle oncoming drivers? the lowbeams on most cars throw light a lot further / higher & I would have thought that’d be far more distracting than the little baby ones that just act as a big.
Only time ive ever found them really useful (therefore dont use them much) is out bush at night when finding a campsite (tend to go camping next to lakes etc, and head out on a friday night) … very useful in lighting up more of the immediate ground infront to negotiate rocks, branches, mudholes, etc at low speed. (completely irrelevant to the conversation)
rear fogs i totally understand why theyre dangerous, theyre designed to beam out at eye level (to pierce fog and reach drivers eyes). Ive used rear fogs when driving in cloud up above snow line etc … and i reckon theyve saved my ass before when some dickhead going way too fast bears down on you (probbaly with no chains or winter studs hehe)
and yes that was one hastily written question lacking a grammar skim read, sorry ! :)
i think its because fog lights produce quite an intense tight beam, which when installed properly and pointing towards the ground is fine. But if you hit a bump in the road or you have shit aftermarket fog lights installed then the light shines directly into people’s eyes like when someone highbeams you. Or if you come over a crest in a hill then even properly installed fog lights will blind people coming up the hill, thats happened to me before. If you want to make yourself more visible during the day or at dusk/dawn then just put low beams on, because although the go out a lot further than fog lights (because they are angled at the ground) they are a lot less intense, so aren’t nearly as blinding. Fog lights don’t seem intense, until they are shone directly into your eye’s.
For those of u who think these lights don’t increase the brightness take a light meter and test it, as far as I’m concerned u might as well have your hi beams on. Have some respect for the people u come up behind and oncoming trafic. Use common sense. More pistons in your engine more power more batteries more power. WOW makes sense to me..
My opinion
There’s a reason fog lights mainly were/are yellow. Fog lights are not meant to enable you to see better in the fog, they are an identity light;driving lights enable you to see better in adverse weather conditions. Yellow is the broadest colour in the electromagnetic spectrum and therefore as humans we see it before we see other colours;which is why people working in hazardous locations wear yellow apparel. People will actually see a yellow light through thick fog before they see a white light(try it & find out);therefore alerting a person in the pathway of a carriage with a fog light on it is the purpose of the front fog light.People will see a person wearing a bright yellow shirt on the roadway in the day time easier than they would if the person was wearing a white shirt.Remember trains which had a white light & a yellow light at the front. Or better still, take a look at the advertising poster for the new 2007 commodore VE R8, showing the normal headlight & high beam lights and in the apron below is another set of lights; a low range driving light which has been standard on some models for some time now and a new much smaller yellow light directly beneath the driving light with an arrow pointing to the yellow light with the words saying “now with fog lights”. I think different manufacturers get caught up in all the hype of advertising and name something for convenience and ease rather than it’s true intention.
Personally I am not bothered by the average low range driving lights mounted in the apron and I don’t believe they are eye piercing at all; many head lights on new cars are eye piercing but you try not to look at them.Done correctly low range driving do assist with driving in certain conditions and they would not be there if they didn’t. I was recently pulled over by a RBT one night in the drizzle and told to turn my fog lights off or he would write me up; I politely argued with the officer that I only had low range driving lights and not fog lights and they assisted me in the rain with the extra glare; the 2 officers and myself ended up standing 6 metres ahead of my vehicle where I asked them to point out to me how the lights being low range 55watt driving lights mounted so low to the groung were affecting other drivers. They were lost for words and could not honestly give me an answer except to incorrectly dictate that they were only to be used in inclement weather conditions which means cloudy and stormy. After reminding them of the on and off drizzle of that night I removed from my glovebox the RTA ruling in NSW which states:- A person must not cause or permit any fog light affixed to a motor vehicle on a road to be lighted except in fog, mist or under other atmospheric conditions that restrict visibility. So whose to say what one sees out of one’s eyes or what affects one’s vision. The officers agreed with my point of view and didn’t write me up.It’s too easy to say don’t drive if your affected;who hasn’t had an off day, or not feeling 100%; should you have to throw away your licence or not go about your business because of something so minor. Different people are affected by different things; the glare on a gloomy or cloudy day, the glare on a clear day or the rain and glare on a rainy night. I am photophobic and therefore badly affected by glare and these driving lights don’t bother me in the slightest. I think people whinge because they’ve got nothing better to do and if not this it would be something else. Employ common sense and move on.
Michael Y.In your words (So whose to say what one sees out of one’s eyes or what affects one’s vision.) turn off your apron lights and have some respect for on coming traffic and the people you come up behind. Yes fog lights are yellow. again common sense..
And its still going,this would have to be the most revisited blog out there! The new M3 doesn’t have fog lights so I guess that will make some one happy!
if it is too bright, why look at the lights??? should we ban the sun coz its too bright too look at??? also to all the people who are bitchin bout 4×4’s headlights shining in ur eyes, ur rear vision mirror has a tab on it that dips it allowing u to still see behind u but with the lights. btw whenever i drive around in my 4×4 i have my low beams on, it makes u more visable to drivers especialy when u r driving in shaddows and i have a dark coloured car.
oh why do i have a 4×4 in the city? not as michael stated “…wankers in 4wds.. yes you have little weiners” for ur information i have a rather large weiner. i also have a 4×4 because on weekends i like to go offroad using it for its intened purpose.
Michael Y:-
I see another need to correct terminology here. I now do so from an enforcement point of view, despite your odd experience at a NSW RBT**:-
Front fog lights are either ‘white-optic’ or ’selective yellow’. (Hella advise that a ’selective yellow lamp’, achieved by a yellow colouring of the lens OR parabol, can lose up to 15% of effective luminance when compared to a white-optic version of the same lamp. personally, I survive with either colour happily).
Driving lights/lamps are ‘white-optic’.
* You will recall old FRENCH regulations that had all forward lighting as ‘yellow’, including park, low and high-beam and front fog!! Now superceded for International harmonisation.
EACH FORWARD LAMP ‘TYPE’ HAS DIFFERING BEAM PATERN, WATTAGE, PERMISSIBLE BULB TYPES, WIRING AND MOUNTING REQUIREMENTS under our domestic (ADR & NVS) regulations, and those of the international community under UNECE rules, with which Australia is largely harmonised.
A ‘driving lamp’ is used to supplement a vehicles high-beam performance only, and *must* be wired to only operate when the vehicles headlight switch is turned to high-beam.
You can purchase either ‘Pencil-beam’ or ‘Broad beam types, sometimes sold in the aftermarket as ‘Combo’ kits, – so you’d have a broad-beam lamp mounted on the left, and the pencil-beam mounted on the right, in RHD markets.
Aftermarket fitment (under NVS) of these requires an additional switch, which then allows both a combination of the vehicles regular standard high-beam headlights only, OR BOTH the regular standard high-beams AND the added driving lights. The driving lamps must NOT ever operate on low and park/position regardless.
A “driving lamp” has SPECIFIC CODES MARKED ON THE LENS. (Eg; HR or HR-P) In this way, both Police and Transport Inspectors know fully a lamps ‘complianced function’, in addition to other tell-tale signs such as the lamps ISO switch symbol, its mounting and wiring operation.
A FRONT FOG LAMP bears the CODE “02B” on the lens, regardless if it is a white-optic or selective yellow variety. These have a distinct ‘flat, hand fan-shaped beam pattern’ reaching out typically to 10 metres, up to 50 metres, since one should have dropped speed and in those conditions it is not technically feasible to shoot a beam of light too far out in any case.
Front fog lamps (ADR 51) are NOT DRL’s (ADR76), Daytime Running Lamps. Again, it is quite easy to see what each lamp function is complianced for.
** Your RBT example was not an offence in any case, since in NSW one is permitted to use ones front fog lamps under abnormal atmospheric conditions, meaning rain, fog, snow, bushfire smoke. The same applies in WA. These two jurisdictions do not permit the use of front fog lamps in clear weather conditions.
Your descriptive “average low range driving lights mounted in the apron” is also not an ADR, and is inaccurate in any case in relation to any lamp regulation in the world today.
I wonder then what you’ll do if we mandate DRL’s? Have both them, the front fogs and low-beams on??? I already get dopes modifiying ADR’ed ‘Cornering lamps’ to activate fulltime, another defect.
Regardless, be aware that 2008 will see a modified Australian Road Rule 217 enforced across Australia, this modification to the old rear fog light rule now restricts the use of front fog lamps to “hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility”, and brings Australia in line with the rest of the world team. I expect this to be contracted by each jurisdiction, and imparted into all state and territory driver handbooks, mid to late 2008.
Remember again, ‘codings’ will aid enforcement, re-naming or giving ‘new title’ to a lamp will not get you off.
I know of someone that got a fine for having the lights on… It’s not uncommon.
and they deserve to be fined if they have them on! its one of the most annoying things on the road!
Just about every car has them, so the main question is… WHATS THE POINT?
well that is a good point, i was suprised my TS50 actually has them hooked up via high beam, ao there driving lights, and i think thats what mose manufacturers should be doing!
Ahhhhh.now thats interesting Tonyn. You find them annoying!
I have mine on most of the time………I don’t find them annoying though to look at, not even at night. You know men can drive better at night than women..proven! Not during the day though…..hahaha. Na really women have better perifial vision than men {which is why you can never see anything ,or is that selected blindness so we have to get up and find it for you!} I am surprised at how many Police I get pointing the finger at my lights to switch them off…….I find I get more people flashing their lights at me cause they think I have my headlights on high beam when there not! Headlights in general are pretty bright now compared to Fog lights that I don’t think have changed wattage in the 20 odd years some cars have had them for!
The way I see it’ it is bad weather 24/7 for the apron light runners. So now that we got this off our chests. Where do we put the blame, the drivers or the manufacturer or both? When I see these apron lights on I figure what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. and as far as common sense goes there is very few in my opnion that have it..
TONYN – Your TS50, new or secondhand? To actually see WHAT the lamps complianced function is, look at those codings on the lens, quote them here, you will see near the E-mark either the designation “HR” or “02B”. If the car is secondhand, then it may be the previous owner re-wired what were complianced front fog lamps as driving lamps, a pity really since they have little forward vision.
IF they are ‘fog’, rewired as driving lamp (hence no operation on low-beam and park), you could find replacement lamps bearing driving light code that will really help project light beyond 220metres, rather than a fogs ‘typical’ 10-30 metres. See Narva or Hella.
JOHN – Manufacturers put, to use the generic term ‘fog lights’ on cars they say to help them ’sell’, as some say the lamps look ’sexy’. Note the occasional ad that shows a car in clear weather with the fogs on. A sad but a true ‘developed’ opinion it seems.
Regardless, front fogs are a legal lamp and for the purpose they are designed, generally do a good job, but are an optional luxury. In most lousy weather phenomenon that results in reduced visibility in Australia, a vehicles low beam headlights are generally sufficient.
The primary defence however, again, against vehicle to vehicle impact when driving under lousy weather conditions resulting is attrocious visibility, really is the evil rear fog lamp, and it is this lamp that needs to be a mandatory standardised feature in this market. (Indeed all).
To achieve that for the car, van and 4WD categories (MA, MB, MC) simply means a modification to Australian Design Rule 13, Part 8.5. ADR’s are now Commonwealth ‘parliamentary law’.
We would manadate to do so, in part, since a vehicles standard 12volt 5watt tail-lamps are rendered utterly worthless in even light to moderate rain in daylight hours when driving on a freeway or open-road, let alone in heavy fog, in dust or when driving in bushfire smoke etc and so on.
(NSWFB have a mandatory rear fog lamp requirement for ALL its fire fighting vehicles, and they now appear on new NSW RFS units, I suggest other jurisdictions fire fighting organisations specify same, if only on the basis of Occupational Health & Safety).
Naturally, we can then authorise summary roadside execution of offenders by the highway patrol for those that use rear fog lights – in near clear, and clear conditions.
* Only two vehicles come to mind that have complianced ‘driving lamps’ (HR) mounted in the apron area, these were the Nissan Micra Gti, and a few Ford Explorer. The Micra in EU trim had instead complianced front fogs (02B).
** Two other items we shall see eventually, items that are ‘required equipment’ in ALL Euro market cars, vans
& 4WD, AND that in some Euro jurisdictions must actually be used, these are; the UN Standard hazard-warning triangle (UNECE-R27 in Trans, one per vehicle) and the “EN471″ high-visibility safety vest, see Google. the vests cost $5.95 here in NSW (Hot Dollar, Tuggerah). Each item forms part of the requirement of a new “UN Convention on Road Traffic, Signs & Signals” that will be up for eventual world contract in the years ahead. The triangle, is not the same rubbish used by Aussie truckies.
I agree with this topic to a point.
My wife’s VZ did not come with fog lamps. The models that did, for example; clubsport, are installed with a low wattage globe as factory standard. My new GTS has foglamps but they also brought in this new thing called automatic lights which make the lights come on at dusk and off at dawn. I noticed that their wasnt a switch to turn off the foglamps and even if their was they would come on automatically again next time.
I do find it annoying as I live in rural Queensland there are no light poles on the side of the road so people driving at you with all lights blazing really dont know how much it hurts your eyes. I dont turn away and say “that asshole with his spot lights” because … I am committing the same stunt as he is.
In correction to your claim that it is illegal. This is false. IT is illegal to run your DIY foglamps without fog. If they come factory standard, I am sorry but they are classed as parker lights or headlamps.
Drive with Foggies on (when not appropriate) and be prepared to get flashed – a lot…
My friends and I all will flash you – we won’t get annoyed, but you (or your missus !) might. Everyone on here should do the same…
TURN THEM OFF !!!
My husband and I were just having a discussion about fog lights. Its been extremely foggy here in Germany and I have had to use the fog lights to see. I also suffer from a small degree of night blindness and need all the hlep i can get to see. I try not to drive at night but it doesn’t always work out that way. I don’t use them unless its foggy or snowy though and I hate it when I see people who use them in clear nights. It makes it soooo much harder for me see because it takes a few extra seconds for my eyes to focus back where they need to be. Its a courtesy issue, its to bad that people that can’t understand that.
Hey Gerhard Petersen Thanks mate us people that like our 100watt spotlight’s Makes us a druggy or aloholic hey.
i bet some people take that as a insult soplease don’t dsriminate people that like th 100watt’s.
ive got apsulutly got no problem with the lights
only if they dont dip them thats when you flick on all for switches for a quick second s al i do t for they sure dim there lies defently those country utes.
Switchie:-
AS at January 2008, only WA and NSW have regulations seperate to the Australian Road Rules prohibiting the use of front fog lamps in clear weather conditions.
(MODERN front fog lamps are either ‘Selective Yellow’ or ‘White Optic’ in colour).
THIS will change mid to late 2008- as existing “Australian Road Rule 217″ – rear fog lamps’, has been modified and updated to include the same prohibition of use for front fog lamps. (ARR 217).
In effect, once the jurisdictions gazette the updated rule, it *will* be an offence nationwide to have switched on a vehicles front fog lamps in clear weather conditions. After this time, they may only be used under ‘hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility’.
THE existing NSW and WA rules apply whether or not the lamp is factory fitted, or installed ‘aftermarket’.
AND the same application applies with the ARR update.
ON a 12 volt halogen system, a compliant front fog lamp bears a 55watt bulb. By comparison, your low beam is 60watts, and high-beam 55. (Yes that *is* correct).
* NEVER increase a front fog lamps wattage, you need to REDUCE glare in putrid heavy fog like weather, not increase it!
A vehicles forward ‘parking lamp’, otherwise known as the ’sidelights-position’ lamps, bear 12v/5watt bulbs.
DAYTIME Running Lamps bear 21v/21watt bulbs. Front fog lamps are not DRL’s.
FRONT indicator bulbs are 12v/21watts.
NOW, Holdens “Automatic Headlamp Mode” that switches on during low-light conditions or at nightfall, does not mean that the complianced front fog lamps are then lit.
A factory or aftermarket front fog lamp install *must*, by both Australian Design Rules and the National Vehicle Standards have its own activating switch; on new market vehicles this switch will bear the unique front fog lamp ISO symbol. In Australia, the front fog lamp switch is only active IF the headlight switch itself is also ‘on’ when it is either switched to park, low or high-beam.
A pilot light, on 99% of all vehicles, in relation to front fog lamps will show a GREEN light when the front fog lamps are activated. (Yes, I know that ‘the aussies’ sometimes get it wrong and use yellow for these).
YELLOW, is shown for a ‘rear fog lamp’ that is activated.
COMPLIANCE CODING: Police and Transport Inspectors can use a front fog lamps COMPLIANCE CODING to immediately check what a specific lamp is designed and certified for.
LOOK closely at the subject lamps ‘lens’, near the E Mark, will be the designation “B”, or “02B”. In relation to front fog lamps, the letter B is relevant.
ONE cannot assign a ‘different name’ to a front fog lamp in an attempt to get out of a fine – IF so complianced and marked,- AND you are driving with the lamp ‘on’ in clear weather conditions.
A proper “DRIVING LAMP” will bear near the E mark the designation “R” example “HR”, the letter R signals the lamp is a complianced ‘driving’ lamp, and is only to be used to supplement a vehicles existing high-beam.
The driving lamps will often meet or exceed a vehicles standard high-beam performance, on some cars this easily exceeds 220 metres.
AFTERMARKET driving lamp installs must bear a seperate activating switch, so that you can choose to drive with just the vehicles stadnard high-beams, or with both the high-beams and driving lamps on. The switch, if ‘on’, must only function when the cars headlamp switch is also on high-beam.
FRONT FOG ‘RANGE’:- A compliant front fog lamp will have a forward range of 10 – 35 metres out to 50 metres maximum, they show a wide, hand-fan shaped beam pattern so as to show up the near edges of the road better.
IN severely reduced visibility conditions, it is often safest to switch OFF a cars low-beam and run with just the ‘parking’ lights on AND the front fog lamps. Your speed will be reduced. IF the car has a rear fog lamp, then this should be use at this time.
THIS action has the effect of reducing glare and eye fatigue, it also means your vehicles front indicators stand out more clearly to other traffic as they are not as ‘masked’, as is often the case owing the close placement of a headlamps low-beam to the front indicators.
MODIFICATION to ARR217 brings Australia in line with world practice on the matter of front fog light use. World practice in turn is held in the UN Conventions on Road Traffic, Road Signs & Signals. We have been a contracting party since 1953 (49′ Convention).
FINAL NOTE: – The aforesaid UN Convention on Road Traffic, Road Signs & Signals allows for the use of a vehicles front fog lamps at night (in clear conditions) on ‘twisty mountainous roads’, so as to aid low and high beam in that environment. Australia has not modified the 217 as yet to reflect that, BUT it is an international allowance under our ‘obligations’ to the Convention.
TO legally upgrade your standand halogen low-beam or even high-beams, it is suggested purchasing marketed “PLUS 50″ type bulbs. These are E marked and ADR/NVS compliant. One can add a dedicated driving lamp to a light bar (that surrounds a number plate or on a bull bar) for say rural driving.
I hope keepleft is correct and these lights become illegal (apart from when they are actually useful, ie FOG) in all states.
At the moment only two sad groups of people use them.
WANKERS that need other people to look at them and RETARDS that think it makes them safer. I don’t know which group is more pathetic.
We get the road toll we deserve.
In some States, definately in Queensland, it is illegal to drive with both the headlights and the foglights on at the same time. Unfortunately, the police don’t bother to police it!!
On a recent Saturday night trip to pick up takeaway dinner, a round trip of about 10km, in an outer Brisbane suburb I counted 18 “fogwits”. This is a most annoying trend and I wish the police would start fining people more regularly and put a stop to this “fashion statement”.
Hi Pavle.
You talk a lot of crap. I don’t agree with most of the things you write in the Geelong newspaper. Fog lights look nice and make the car look better. These crappy laws about them are just a waste of time. You like to think you know wot your talking about but you don’t. You only write good things about certain cars so they let you test drive the latest models.
Why the hell would you anyone care about foglights when there a million p platers with turbo cars driving around? Isnt that illegal? Hell yeah. But these are stupid laws which police can not enforce.
As I understand it.
The Front Fog Lights on a vehicle serve two functions:-
1.So the Driver can see the road ahead in adverse foggy/dusty/smoky conditions
2.So oncoming traffic can see the said car coming towards them at a distance that allows for collision avoidance.
Fog lights unlike low beam headlights have a forward upwards shining light component that is designed to shine in oncoming drivers eyes, so as to provide the 2nd requirement. In foggy/dusty/smoky conditions this is fine.
In normal night conditions this is at best annoying for on coming drivers, at worst dangerous. It is particularly so in wet conditions where drivers already have to cope with extra reflected light from regular low beams off the wet road surface.
Any light shining into a fog will reflect back towards the driver making vision difficult. Fog lights usually have less wattage than low beams for this reason, they are also best positioned low on the vehicle to gain some benefit from the “less foggy” layer close to the ground. To help with this low beams should be off when using front fog lights.
The Rear Fog Light serves one purpose only. To allow the following car on a freeway or motorway in fog to see the car ahead sooner than if relying on just the tail lights of the car ahead. The rear fog lamp is a single light much brighter than a regular tail light and of similar brightness to stop/brake lights.
The reasoning of the following driver is:-
If I can see one read light ahead it is a rear fog light.
If I can see two lights ahead they are tail lights.
If I can see three or more lights ahead they are brake lights.
The following driver can react accordingly.
In jurisdictions that have frequent foggy conditions it is policed to ensure all rear lights work properly.
The rear fog light was introduced as a measure to try and avoid the multi car stack ups that have occurred on freeways in Europe and North America.
The usual practice is to have the rear fog light on the same side as the driver, but it can be on either side. However so that the rear light assemblies are symmetrical many European vehicles have the facility on both sides, but only one is ever hooked up.
Again in most jurisdictions Rear Fog Lamps are only to be used on motorways/freeways. They are designed to give following drivers more reaction time in relatively high speed situations.
Rear Fog lamps should not be used in suburban driving situations ever, even in a fog. In the close together traffic situations they give far too much glare to the following driver, they are particularly dangerous in traffic in wet conditions – effectively masking the effect of the brake lights.
I believe it is now illegal in victoria to use fog lights in good weather conditions. Started April 16 this year.
Rule 217
The amendment can be viewed as item 36 in Schedule 4 of the Road Safety (Road Rules) Regulations 1999 at http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au.
Apparently in South Australia its okay for you to drive around with either Fog/Driving Lights on provided that they were fitted to the car at the factory be it standard or as an option.
However; they are less distracting than the more high intensity halogen or xenon headlights you see protentious poseurs in Lexii [plural of Lexus] driving around with them on.
Good on you , give more tossers reason to turn on foggies in clear conditions, as for being more visible , consider this, as a firefighter I regularly drive through heavy traffic with anything up to 16 extremely bright spotlights, beacons and strobes and guess what, they still dont see you, ask any emergency responder, you will get the same response. Whatever you call them, due to their distinctive design they are for the purpose of increasing visibility in adverse conditions and anyone who uses them otherwise is a complete wanker in need of an enlargement FULL STOP
Why are so many people hell bend on breaking the LAW??? Like StarWars??? my ‘beams’ brighter than yours???
People … FOG lights are for during Fog and legaly are only to be operational with parking lights on for a good reason as even your low-beam reduces your gained visability from Foglights during Fog….. I myself get ropeable even here in Bundaberg people just drive with them on and no fog in sight. They rewire them or put higher wattages in them…. IDIOTS
Only because they sit low, does not mean that they dont blind oncomming traffic. The argument about them having the same wattage as lowbeam is really irrelavent because if one cares to check out the prism of the lowbeam glass, one will see that the light is thrown directly infront of the vehicle on the left side of the road…. Fog Lights shine out over both sides and therefore directly into oncoming traffic…. So Bavarian Missile, maybe by reading this you will realize that one day when you insist on driving with them on and blinding someone that than due to that has a frontal collision with you and maybe your Bmer has its Airbag save you and your Insurance Company refuses to pay the damage because it was ALL your fault, you may join the rest of the Aussies that respect the law and show consideration for their fellow roadusers.
By the looks of things most people think Fog lights suck if there is no fog about.
some of you need to find a place that has fog!!
I lived at a place where the fog was so thick even lights of any type where useless, try 4 hours to go about 10km. ment getting out every 5-10 meters and walk out in front of car to make sure you was on the road!!(could not even see the lights when looked back)
It was just as bad in the day time
I drive with my lights on during the day, so much evidence says its safer. But where do low beams point to DOWN!!
Fog lights as people before have pointed out shine from one side of the car to the other and just out there.
they are ment to shine below the fog(usually fog sits a bit off the ground)
Most of the cars with factory fitted fog lights are non adjustable and shine anywhere!!!
FOG LIGHTS ARE FOR WANKERS IN THE CITY AND WHEN THERE IS NO FOG AROUND. OOOOH Look at me I have BIG fog lights.
It used to be V8 engines was the ego thing.
I FLASH THEM TOO
Well there’s a question for you people1!
what about country people who put more lights on their cars to they can see clearer at night. is having 4 spot lights on at night in a main road illegal? if so why?
What everyone is missing is the road rules state that you must dip your lights within a certain distance of oncoming traffic or traffic ahead of you. This includes driving lights. Headlights have a Refractive lens which bends the light to the Left so as not to dazzle oncoming traffic (opposite for Lefthand Drive Vehicles.Driving Lights cast a bright beam straight ahead whether spot or spread which will dazzle other drivers. So come on you Toad Smokers & grow some sense and start being more considerite of fellow road users. To the slack Authorities get of your rear and put a stop to this unsafe practice before some gets hurt from being temporarily blinded.
What everyone is missing is the road rules state that you must dip your lights within a certain distance of oncoming traffic or traffic ahead of you. This includes driving lights. Headlights have a Refractive lens which bends the light to the Left so as not to dazzle oncoming traffic (opposite for Lefthand Drive Vehicles).Driving Lights cast a bright beam straight ahead whether spot or spread which will dazzle other drivers. So come on you Toad Smokers & grow some sense and start being more considerate of fellow road users. To the slack Authorities get of your rear and put a stop to this unsafe practice before someone gets hurt from being temporarily blinded.
After reading some of the replies for the original “fog light fury”. I completely agree with his sentiments. As for the replies of those that see no issues or say it’s OK to drive with them on. That’s why I call them WANKER LIGHTS.
Dusty I think you missed the point.
Sure out in the country to me its all good, but I bet you don’t keep them on when someone is coming towards you?
I had a car with 640watts of light when high beam was on(daylight).
low beams are around 110 watts of light(both lights) but add bloody fog lights and in the city with frigin street lights and clear as a bell weather!!!!!!!!!=WANKER
Well it is now a fact that fog light use without fog is illegal in victoria.
I would assume this would mean if you have an accident while being a fogwit, your insurance won’t cover you. At least I hope so. May be we can bankrupt the wankers off the road.
Some of the idiots on the roads only think of how good it makes them look (NOT), although they are probably still talking on their mobile phones and do not see the motor cyclist in front of them trying to adjust his mirrors because some wanker is sitting up his bum with these stupid fog lights on.
I ride a motorbike and this practice in QLD of driving around with their fog light on is getting out of control.
They upgrade the lights to be clear lens driving lights and stick 100w globes in them then drive around to see how many possoms they can blind. I have had several near accidents because I could not see with these lights blaring at me. When you suggest to the driver they should turn them off, you get a mouthful of obuse.
Even the local police drive around with them on and when I asked the trafic branch cop he informed me that there was nothing wrong with this practice.
Something needs to be put in place Australia wide. Same as Victoria
TO ALL THOSE TOSSERS HAVING A WHINGE ABOUT PPL DRIVING WITH FOG LIGHTS ON. IF THEY ARE ILLEGAL TO HAVE ON IN THE DAY OR NIGHT, WHY DO THE BLOODY CAR MANUFACTURERS PUT THEM ON CARS. THEY CANT CONTROL HOW DRIVERS USE THEM.ITS JUST LIKE THAT STUPID LAW WITH P PLATERS NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE A TURBO CHARGED CAR. SO MANY OF THEM HAVE A TURBO CAR. Y CANT THE COPZ ENFORCE THAT LAW? BECAUSE THERE ARE FAR TO MANY P PLATERS WITH A TURBO. ITS THE SAME WITH FOG LIGHTS. WHAT COP WOULD BE STUFFED TO PULL OVER A CAR WITH FOG LIGHTS ON. THEY WOULD BE DOING THAT ALL BLOODY DAY! THIS COUNTRY IS FULL OF STUPID PPL COMPLAINING ABOUT THE MOST STUPIDEST THINGS IN LIFE LIKE FOG LIGHTS. WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FOG LIGHTS. THERES NOTHING UNSAFE ABOUT LIGHTS. ITS THE SAME WITH POWER. PPL CRY OVA HIGH SPEED CRASHES, MAINLY FOCUSED ON YOUNG DRIVERS. ITS NOT THE KW OUTPUT OF AN ENGINE ITS THE STUPID DECISIONS MADE BY THE STUPID DRIVER WHICH RESULTS IN THEIR CRASH, NOT THE CAR. BUT PPL ARE SO THICK HEADED AND FOLLOW THE STUPID SUPPOSEDLY ROAD LAWS (which are meant to make our roads safer, which they do not) MADE BY OUR CORRUPT AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT.JUST LOOK AT THESE STUPID NEW GREEN P-PLATER LAWS WHICH COME OUT JULY 1. THEY SAY A GREEN P-PLATER MAY ONLY CARRY 1 PASSENGER. WILL THAT MAKE OUT ROADS SAFER? NO!! IT WILL JUST PUT MORE IDIOTIC YOUNG DRIVERS ON THE ROAD AND CAUSE MORE CRASHES AS YOUNG PPL THINK THEY ARE KING DICK ON THE ROAD AND KNOW HOW TO DRIVE. A LOT OP POLICE AGREE WITH THIS, AND BECAUSE ITS A MINORITY OF THEM, THEIR VOICES AREN’T HEARD. THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT CHOOSES TO DO WHAT I CALL, SELECTIVE HEARING. SO SCREW SWITCHING FOG LIGHTS OFF UNTIL CAR MAKERS STOP PUTTING THEM ON CARS.
Finished your rant now. Point made IN BIG CAPITALS. WOOO ANGRY DUDE
EVRO:
Why would manufacturers remove fog lights when they can be legally used when there is – FOG!
Hence the name ‘FOG’ Lights.
The only “TOSSER” in this forum is the idiot who has to yell to get a point across. It is obvious he or she does not drive or ride on the roads in Australia.
To say that these fog lights (driving lights) are ok only goes to show you the mentality of some of the road uses around.
They have no regard for anyone else on the road except themselves and it clearly shows why nothing has been done with attitudes like that.
I hope the person I am refering does not drive because they obviously are a danger to all other motorists on the road.
Arvo, arvo, arvo, you are a “MEGA WANKER”.
ps. my car has a horn and high beam, but I don’t have to have them on 24/7.
oh Evro, why oh why are you wasting your writing skills here, obviously you have the literary skills of a genius mmmmmm i think NASA is calling you. Not sure of other states, but QLD is contemplating adopting the national standard for fog light use that is…rule 217 of the Australian Road Rules specifically
prohibits the use of front fog lights in clear weather conditions. This i am told is due for release early 2009 with a media campaign to raise awareness. At the moment Qld only has the dazzling rule which is difficult to enforce. These changes cant come soon enough, and regardless of what the rocket scientists say, four lights will always be brighter than two, especially with the advent of xenon bulbs, HID and other technology.
Feel sorry for you if you cant lift heavy things
I AM KING..HEAR ME ROAR. TO ALL THOSE TOSSERS HAVING A WHINGE ABOUT PPL DRIVING WITH FOG LIGHTS ON. IF THEY ARE ILLEGAL TO HAVE ON IN THE DAY OR NIGHT, WHY DO THE BLOODY CAR MANUFACTURERS PUT THEM ON CARS. THEY CANT CONTROL HOW DRIVERS USE THEM.ITS JUST LIKE THAT STUPID LAW WITH P PLATERS NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE A TURBO CHARGED CAR. SO MANY OF THEM HAVE A TURBO CAR. Y CANT THE COPZ ENFORCE THAT LAW? BECAUSE THERE ARE FAR TO MANY P PLATERS WITH A TURBO. ITS THE SAME WITH FOG LIGHTS. WHAT COP WOULD BE STUFFED TO PULL OVER A CAR WITH FOG LIGHTS ON. THEY WOULD BE DOING THAT ALL BLOODY DAY! THIS COUNTRY IS FULL OF STUPID PPL COMPLAINING ABOUT THE MOST STUPIDEST THINGS IN LIFE LIKE FOG LIGHTS. WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FOG LIGHTS. THERES NOTHING UNSAFE ABOUT LIGHTS. ITS THE SAME WITH POWER. PPL CRY OVA HIGH SPEED CRASHES, MAINLY FOCUSED ON YOUNG DRIVERS. ITS NOT THE KW OUTPUT OF AN ENGINE ITS THE STUPID DECISIONS MADE BY THE STUPID DRIVER WHICH RESULTS IN THEIR CRASH, NOT THE CAR. BUT PPL ARE SO THICK HEADED AND FOLLOW THE STUPID SUPPOSEDLY ROAD LAWS (which are meant to make our roads safer, which they do not) MADE BY OUR CORRUPT AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT.JUST LOOK AT THESE STUPID NEW GREEN P-PLATER LAWS WHICH COME OUT JULY 1. THEY SAY A GREEN P-PLATER MAY ONLY CARRY 1 PASSENGER. WILL THAT MAKE OUT ROADS SAFER? NO!! IT WILL JUST PUT MORE IDIOTIC YOUNG DRIVERS ON THE ROAD AND CAUSE MORE CRASHES AS YOUNG PPL THINK THEY ARE KING DICK ON THE ROAD AND KNOW HOW TO DRIVE. A LOT OP POLICE AGREE WITH THIS, AND BECAUSE ITS A MINORITY OF THEM, THEIR VOICES AREN’T HEARD. THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT CHOOSES TO DO WHAT I CALL, SELECTIVE HEARING. SO SCREW SWITCHING FOG LIGHTS OFF UNTIL CAR MAKERS STOP PUTTING THEM ON CARS.
Oh look everybody ERVO has learnt how to copy and paste…. He has come out of the stone age.
Thanks Mambosau for the heads up on the introduction in QLD. I will look forward to the day when that becomes law.
If someone has more information on when and how this will be adopted in QLD could you please post it here.
Thanks
And before anyone points out the error.I meant to say EVRO.
It is just idiots like him that increase the road toll in this country.
I agree with those two guys up who say, what’s the point of arguing about Foglights, when there are people who CONTINUOUSLY, fail to give way, speed up to cut you off from changing lanes, fail to indicate, indicate when they don’t need to, when turning right/left are in the MIDDLE of the lane (which by law is technically illegal as it should be as close to the side they are turning to). People who park really close to driveways, traffic lights, intersections (which is also illegal, there are measurements in the law).
How many people here can say they’ve never done these?
Funnily enough, they’re all part of the law as well as common sense and yet are continuously broken…
Rob, I will agree with you about the fact that there are a lot of other road rules that are broken. But I have to say that these fog lights are being turned on buy an ever increasing number of people. Every night I would have at least two dozen of them blinding me on my way home. Some of them in new cars are better than my old driving lights I use to have on my LH.
The sooner some of these wankers get a fine for their trouble the better.
They are almost as bad as push bike rider,,, But that is another matter.
Evro, you are so right
“WHAT COP WOULD BE STUFFED TO PULL OVER A CAR WITH FOG LIGHTS ON. THEY WOULD BE DOING THAT ALL BLOODY DAY!…………THERES NOTHING UNSAFE ABOUT LIGHTS…….ITS NOT THE KW OUTPUT OF AN ENGINE ITS THE STUPID DECISIONS MADE BY THE STUPID DRIVER WHICH RESULTS IN THEIR CRASH, NOT THE CAR.”
I’m not sure i could have explained it better, nobody here is having a cry about that car manufacturers are putting unsafe Lights on cars….we are voicing our discust about those “STUPID DRIVERS” as you sooooo politely have put it, that insist on using a very usefull ‘tool’ at the wrong time in the wrong place…. but i guess you would be someone that’s brainy enough to use a match to check your petrol tank to see how much fuel is left in there……
I’ve been a NSW police officer performing Highway Patrol duties for almost 20 years, and I have watched the amount of fog lights being fitted standard on new vehicles increase exponentially over the last 8 or so years, and their unlawful usage increase at the same rate. I have gotten sick of telling people to turn them off at night (not so much worried about day) when conditions dont allow their use (can only be used in conditions of decreased visibility-fog, mist and heavy rain), but I have been more after other things to take up my time giving out tickets for it. All the warnings and such however of my colleagues and I seem not to have stemmed the tide, and it seems that it is the No. 1 gripe of respondents to a recent NRMA survey, so now I am going to set up by the roadside one night and book every car with them on. It wont take long before I run out of tickets. Am I a bastard? Some might think so, but I have tried the other option and it doesnt work. I dont make any more money out of this and when I give each ticket out, it will be for myself as a road user, and all the other motorists out there who do the right thing and are sick of it.
People dont seem to understand that although some fog lights are little more than a gimmick, many others are extremely powerful, and can have about 2-4 times the power of a low beam headlight. Although the beam of a fog light is not focussed, and generally pointed down and out to the side, if you happen to approach a car with them on when they are misaligned after an accident repair, the car is cresting a rise or hill, or the lights are pointing up due to the car towing or carring a load, the efect can be blinding, and it is fatiguing to the driver being repetitively blinded by each and every passing car.
By all means, the more light the better to see as well as possible, and drive safely, but not with fog lights to the detriment of other road users. Most people are courteous and obey the law when it comes to high beam usage, and they need to do the same with fog lights. I wont even go there with the idiots that drive at night with no headlights but fog lights. Sure we can see them, and get blinded by them, but these idiots cant themselves see adequately when their fog lights only adequately light up less than a car length ahead of them. Thats two tickets for them in that. And all in the name of looking cool. Funnily enough, most of them have a little red or green P on their cars.
Wow this is such a controversial subject. I’m 25 and a SV6 Commodore driver… That means I should be cool and drive around with my driving lights on like ‘cool dude’… I think not.
I can MORE than relate to the reaction of people cursing them If you have them on in the day, with or without your main lights on, you are a complete tool… No other way to describe it. Night time passing on country roads or in built up towns/citys where it is worse with blonde barbies in Yaris’s and Excels adding to the trend with rear fog lights, it’s frigging annoying…Even looking away (as much as you can), they still bork your vision. You don’t look cool, you don’t go faster so GET OVER IT. I have used mine only a handful of times since having my current car (dec.06), becuase it’s not really needed. So wogafied doof doof’s use them in fog or on country roads when no one is around if you have really feel the need to use them and look cool.
Driving with your main lights on in the day on the other hand, I can not see a problem with. They don’t irritate anyone else or cuase problems. I have mine set so they come on when I unlock the car, and stay on whilst driving till the car is locked again. I do about 50,000kms per year, so it’s a safety thing as much as convenience. I honestly can’t understand why people whinge at this tho.
I’m worried that these poor people can’t see, especially people with their rear foglights so I always make sure I add as much lighting as is possible for these poor people, high beam and driving lights and all, sick of these selfish single cells…. if all else fails excellent target practice……. idiots idiots idiots
evro ervo whoever you are… make sure you leave your high beams on, your heater etc whatever else is in the car, turn it all on at anytime….. and use all 50kw or 500kw of your car obviously not using much else as far as your physiology and anatomy is concerned…. very entertaining – total besccheuert….. hope you use your airbag too!
you high beam people to tell them they left their high beams on
nothing wrong with having the same system with fog lights
then one day these drivers using fog lights illegally would realise why now and then oncoming drivers high beam them
same to drivers with incorrect head or fog light alignments
Factory fitted fog lights are No brighter than general head lights. This comes under the manufacturing requirements of motor vehicles and compliance acts.
In addition the angle of the fog lights is for aiming under the fog and not at the eye level of drivers.
It is common people misunderstand the difference between fog lights and driving lights. Also driving lights are only activated with the high beam switch. Fog lights are only activated with parking or general driving lights (if they are factory fitted).
The main issue is aftermarket fitment. This could be regulated by yearly inspection (pink slip).
IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MYTH that fog lights blind drivers any more than GENERAL LOW BEAM lights unless misaligned. They have no higher wattage and the glass is frosted tinted or diffused. Misalignment as an issue is no different for general low beam.
The most unfortunate issue is simple minded people are always looking for some issue to complain about and have no idea of the real facts or Physics on the matter and start making false claims.
Wake up and quantify your research before spinning BS Bloggs!
lighting authority, what rock r u living under and exactly what makes you an authority on the issue. Obviously you haven’t seen the fog lights in use on the latest model mid range falcons, commodores or subarus, I,d suggest you open your eyes next time you’re out at night. As an authority on the issue i would expect you to know that the glass used in these lights is, more often than not, CLEAR. Also, if it is an ABSOLUTE MYTH(tried quantifiably researching but couldnt find any entries on this)that these lights are no brighter than general low beam as you state, why is the queensland government, along with many others, adopting and enacting current national legislation in the near future to prevent these inconsiderate tools from dazzling other drivers. As for physics maybe you should think before you type because last time i checked four lights are brighter, therefore more dazzling than two, regardless of where they are aimed, the size of the bulb and type of lens. It seems you are offended by some of the comments here which possibly suggests you are one of these tools who derive great pleasure from using your wanker lights at all times regardless of the weather and impact to other road users. Simple minds, no idea, quantifying research……….hmmmmmmm. At least the government is acting to protect us from people like yourself…. note to self WAKE UP
Two points.
1. In Victoria at least, use of fog lights without fog is illegal.
2. If you have an accident while using them illegally, your insurance company doesn’t have to pay out. Same as non road worthy car, talking on mobile, or over 0.05% alcohol level.
So if you use them illegally, you are not a wanker, you are a retarded wanker.
4WD’s are more of a pain, because they are lot higher than my VT Commodore Wagon and shine through easily and brightly then lower or 2WD cars.
Lighting authority-You have correctly stated there are rules specifically for fog light design/etc (ADR 50/00) These however really only use measuring tests for aim to reduce dazzle. The ADR also provides for “subjective” assessment for dazzle based on light output in conjunction with aim also. They are more concerned with aim than output and there is NO specific maximum level for power output whether it be lumens,watts, whatever. Under the conditions of ADR 50/00, manufacturers can provide the vehicle and fitting with a standard bulb for testing, and then later in production can and do fit a bulb that provides 5-6 times as much light output and this still meets the ADRs. Information from laboratories used by manufacturers to test ADR compliance is that this ADR is rarely used/compliance is not tested for, and seems to be self regulated.
Currently only the power consumption of rear fog lights is limited (to 27 watts) under RTA design rules, and even then wattage is an outmoded method of measurement as it is concerned with power consumption, not light output.
Not all fog lights are the same. Heres an exercise-When you out and about, look for a Holden Commodore SS, VT model. This model was the first Holden mainstream model to be generally fitted with fog lights. If you se its fog lights on, they are pretty well insignificant. Compare that to a VZ or later SS Commodore and you will definitely see the difference. I have no idea of their wattage and perhaps both might use 55 watt bulbs, but the light output of each is chalk and cheese, and the VZ or later fog light is very hight on the dazzle scale when used in clear conditions.
I have not been back on here for a while abd to return to read some of the total B.S. by a couple of the posters is most disturbing.
For Lighting Authority to state that”Factory fitted fog lights are No brighter than general head lights” goes to show just how stupid he really is. If you have one light and you add another and another and another does it not get brighter? Doh!!! I think you should go back to watching someone with the same brain power “Homer”
Bruce, dipped headlights are not bright, nor in the least bit annoying. Yes, having a lot of these could theoretically get annoying. But I have yet to experience this, even when driving down dual carriageways with hundreds of oncoming cars – all with dipped headlights. By your logic I should probably have suffered permanent blindness.
Decent fog lights appear from the front just like dipped headlights. Unless you’re laying on the road looking up at them, you won’t see any direct light from them. Harmless. Yes, a lot of cars (like the wrx pictured) seem to more so have offroad/rally style lights marked as “fog lights” – these are hazardous and serve no real purpose. Similarly rear foglights.
Hi all,
I have a VY HSV any have been stopped 1 at night and ywice during the day for fog lights, now that said i totally agree with in-appropriate use of fog light during the night when there is no inclement weather, it shits me as well, now during the day i always drive with my headlights on, however i prefer to use my fog lights during the day becasue they have a brighter globe and i wont cry if i blow a globe on them, the law states and i quote: ” only 2 forward facing white light are to be on at any one time, however if they ” cause dazzle” to oncomming traffic day or night then it is illegal.
1 Fog light + low beam = double the light (for you and the poor bastard coming the other way.
2 Don’t mind people using them as day lights.
3 I’m sure a lot have bigger globes or have been reaimed.
4 All car builders should be made to recall vechiles and fit a cutout on fog lights when lights are on.
5 (bright 4wd lights) bet most of them are 100 series cruisers with stacked headlight where low beam is the top light. Tried adjusting mates cruiser because he was being flashed without much success.
As of 16th April 2008 a new law regarding the use of front fog lights was announced. Minister for roads, Tim Pallas, said that using front fog lights in any other conditions apart from hazardous weather conditions was now prohibited.
The new law brings the use of front fog lights under conditions which are not foggy or hazardous they could face fines of about $120.It can be even more of a fine if parker lights are on with fog lights on as well. This apply s to Victoria only at this stage.
Have you considered that some people use fog lights as a less-dazzling (than standard headlights) way of making their vehicles more visible in overcast or low-light conditions (I’m not talking about night time, standard headlights work fine for night time)?
Just because you’re not concerned about how visible you are to other road users, doesn’t mean everyone else is doing this for vanity reason. Jump off your high horse.
John, fog lights are only less dazzling than your normal headlights when they are facing down. As soon as you hit a bump, or cross a hill and they flick up to catch oncoming cars at eye level, they are much brighter than standard headlights. Thats why they shouldn’t be used unless it is foggy, and you have fog to reduce the intensity of the light. You might have good intentions for using them, doesn’t mean its not inconsiderate to other uses however.
John,
The facts are, they are illegal, in victoria at least.
If you have an accident while using them you will be as liable as if you were over .05 or had bald tyres etc. And you have voided your insurance, if you have it. Your choice.
What I don’t get is manufacturers only fit them for the asthetics, ie for the rally race car look.
Why then don’t they fit something that is actually usefull, like daytime running lights?
And does replacing the globes with a low output (eg 20W) make them safer/legal? – I do doubt it, but maybe that’s an idea that should be presented to the authorities.
I drive with my driving lights on all the time, i can actually see where im going then. Last night was the first a cop had ever said anything, altho i switched them back on 50meters up the road
Euro cars with their HID lights are way more annoying then any “driving light” or those wannabe HID’s
driving lights….i was driving at the time i was using them?.
Dear Paul
In regards to your letter above.
A new study has found that if you drive with your lights on during the day, there is a 20% less chance of having a head on accident.
Don’t ask me how that works, but i recently took a Defensive Drivers course and they repeated that a number of times.
I now drive with my lights on ALL the time, day or night.
Tyler
Interesting point Tyler.
Did they explain the difference between low beam, DRL’s (daytime running lights) and fog/driving lights?
MICK wrote:
“Last night was the first a cop had ever said anything, altho i switched them back on 50meters up the road”.
A good reason why ‘no mercy’ should be shown by highway patrol in relation to this offence. That the offence also needs to attract a demerit point or two.
It is clear, late comers do not read other key posts.
TYLER: You are discussing DRL’s which are on a 12volt vehicle 21watt bulbs (akin to a reverse lamp or cornering lamp in power), front fog lamps, white-optic or ’selective yellow’ are 55w and have an utterly different light characteristic designed for specific weather purpose.
Now, IF we are to mandate DRL’s (stuffed why in an environment such as OZ), we should then set about mandating a *genuinely safety focussed* item for new market vehicles, namely; “rear fog lamps” (requires a change at ADR13, Part 8.5.1) – because a cars standard taillights (a mandatory item, duh) are utterly worthless in even moderate rain in daylight when on a freeway or other high speed road, or when caught in torrential rain – day or night, in heavy fog, or if caught in bushfire smoke conditions et al.’
ATM these are, as a sign of sheer ‘dumb’ (and actionable) regulatory negligence; ‘optional fitment’.
THEN we should set about what has been achieved in Europe on two fronts; that is, mandating that all cars, vans and 4WD’s be required to carry a single “hazard-warning triangle” to Euro specification, a specification that is now up for world adoption as “UNECE 27R” in the UN Road Traffic Convention.
We then should adopt the requirement for at least ONE supplied “high-visibility safety vest” in cars, van and 4WD’s categories, again up for world adoption, – for use by the roadside at breakdowns and crash scenes.
A matter of time, the driver manuals of TAS, WA, QLD, NSW, SA, ACT suggest their use, and some such as the NSW RUH and TAS versions even include pics of each item, ‘to plant the seed’.
EN471 vests, GB:-
http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/.....mportance/
French Vest and Triangle requirement now meets other EU requirements (See also Pdf):-
http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/.....iangl.html
We could of course do bugger all. You can buy an EU/UN spec triangle in AUS for as little as $20 (Supplier PRO-KIT, Item No.RG9212), and an EN471 spec vest for $5-7. (Hot dollar shops). Better than been run down by those that simply cannot see or are otherwise distracted.
NB: The only “fog lamp” that is regulated as mandatory anywhere in the world, is the REAR fog lamp, since expert know a cars low-beam is sufficient for much of the weather we experience, and recognises that a rear fog lamp IS the “primary defence” against having someone impact the rear of your car when under crappy visibility.
Some of the people posting on this site are saying there is not a problem with using FOG lights all of the time.
OK if there is not a problem why does this blog exist?
If you need proof that FOG lights dazzle other road users
just take a look at the 2 pictures at the beginning of this blog. Why are the pro FOG light users even reading this blog unless they know there is a problem?
A new law regarding the use of front fog lights was also announced today. April 16 2008. Victoria
Minister for Roads and Ports, Tim Pallas, said that using front fog lights in any other conditions apart from hazardous weather conditions was now prohibited.
“Fog lamps turned on when there is no fog can cause glare, affecting other road users’ ability to see and drive safely,” Mr Pallas said.
“The new law brings the use of front fog lights in line with rules for using rear fog lights, reflecting community expectations and improving road safety.
“If drivers use their fog lights under conditions which are not foggy or hazardous they could face fines of $116.”
Tony,
You are correct, it is illegal.
Last week I saw a learner driver in an RACV driving school car, with the fog lights on, and no fog.
What more can I say.
Steve
For fog lamps to be effective, they are designed to project a wide beam, both to the left and right of the car, for the purpose of picking up the road edges on both the left and right side of the car in white out conditions. This wide beam is what can dazzle oncoming drivers.
Also Modern low beam headlights have an unsymmetrical pattern and have a sharp cut off on the drivers side of the vehicle.
I have to say Tony, I have read this blog while researching “How” it became illegal to drive a vehicle with so called “Fog” lights on. And Wow…. what an adverse set of options. Well to all the anti “foggers” I have absoltely no problems with drivers with their ‘Fog’ lights on (illegal or legal). I have many hours of driving at night and any vehicle (truck, van, car, 4X4, SUV etc)that have their ‘Fog’ light(s)on that’s just fantastic and if the driver wants them on during the day that’s fine also.
Having read many bloggers stating how the ‘Fog’ light(s) has a wider beam then normal headlights and as this may be the truth, it has never bothered me. I have learnt over the years of night driving with on coming of traffic to focus way from the vehicles headlights (and what have you) and to the left verge of the road. This way one can focus on where one is driving rather then being concerned with the on coming vechicles light status.
When driving in day or night one needs the drive defensively and not ‘Offensively’ – that means, to do what you have to do to protect yourself and the person in the on coming vehicle from any form of injury etc. Yes the other driver may be making a mistake but don’t you or me add to that mistake by creating a dangerous situition causing jury to yourself and the other person. Unfortunately I get the impression from many ‘Anti’ Foglighters are bent causing harm, this is where ‘ROAD RAGE’ becomes a real problem. Get a grip on reality and get your rage off the roads and away from other humans, get some help for your disposition.
Now for the confession – I like to drive with my ‘Fog’ lights ON. I have noticed from observing other on coming vehicles (this includes city / town driving) this makes the vehicle very prominent and obvious so I personally consider it to be a plus for safety.
From a legal point of view, if I get sprung by a law officer, I’ll have to wear the fine but I’ll do my best to argue that this law is trivial and is more to do with venue raising for governments more then to do with logical sense (of cause many of you ‘ANTI’ foglighters want see it that way – so be it).
Have a great day and drive safely.
I think all the pathetic excuses for disobeying the law that Nath brings up have been well covered already, but since Nath is incapable of reading the previous posts, it needs to be spelt out again:
1. Whether people like Nath are capable of maintaining their vision while cretons driving in the opposite direction aim spotlights at them is irrelevant, we are not all super human. Misaimed headlights are a hazard to night driving for sure and I wish more was done about it, however, it doesnt justify adding to the problem by putting your wank lights on.
2. Sure having lights on during the day may decrease your chance of having an accident. There is no study to suggest that they have to be fog lights, headlights on low beam will do the job just fine!. We dont need a battery of blinding lights to know you are coming.
Thanks Isaac – To put the record straight buddy I have read and was amused by the above posts and since you just want to be arrogant than I will say, you never read nor understood my post… it’s called readers tunnel vision….
Personally I am doing what I can to undo this ridiculous law as it only appears to be a few uneducated drivers (but very vocal ones unfortunately) who appear have problem with so called fog lights.
Have a nice day all – and I’ll wave to you all in my 4×4 with my fog lights on…… Had to rub that in….
I was out and about last night, Friday 26th June, in the Granville Silverwater Homebush area. I must have seen 8 cars with rear fog lights on. OK maybe the use of front fogs can be justified but rear fogs are not a fashion statement. Funny how annoyed they get when you sit behind them with your high beam on. If you have a car fitted with rear fogs please look for the switch and turn the #&*@*^ things off.
Good on you nath, why do we have this “ridiculous law”?
The same reason we have many other “ridiculuous laws”!
To protect the public from those who are ignorant, stupid and/or have no regard for the safety of others, such as yourself.
Laws are only brought in when it becomes apparent a certain % of the population just dont get it, like wearing seat belts or not using a mobile while driving. Fog lamps 30 years ago were a rare accessory and only purchased by those that drove in alpine areas and understood when thei use was appropriate, there didnt need to be a law written out just like we dont need a law telling people not to drive around in suburbia with snow chains on. Now we have the lamps on all sorts of vehicles and unfortunately there are dimwits that think the lights are there to either make the vehicle look cool or give them better vision on suburban roads, or the braindead reason you give of people “will see me when Im shining my lights in their eyes”.
I have little sympathy for those that get fined/apprehended for using their lamps on the basis they didnt know it was illegal/didnt realise they were on/every one else does it, with driving a vehicle comes responsibilities. In your case, however, I have nothing but contempt, you know its against the law, you’ve been given irrefutable reasons as to why its dangerous, but you have taken it upon yourself to disregard that based on “you dont mind”. Society needs less morons like you.
IMHO Fog lights / Driving lights are no more startling or distracting to other drivers than the Premium High Intensity Discharge [HID] or Xenon style lights that are gradually becoming more and more common on cars these days.
If your car came with them fitted as STANDARD [and not an option or fitted aftermarket] then you should be allowed to use them.
Having said that I don’t see the point in those rearward facing fog lights you see on some Japanese/Korean cars though
Wheelnut says: “If your car came with them fitted as STANDARD [and not an option or fitted aftermarket] then you should be allowed to use them”
Great logic wheelnut, if you read through all the posts that stupidity has already been countered. According to you we should be able to drive with the high beams on at any time too?
Some cars have misaligned or too bright headlights so why worry about fog lamps, ah yes, the two wrongs make a right logic.
Thanks Wheelnut,
I have just seen the light. (pun intended)
I will now make myself “safer” by driving with high beam, emergency flashers and horn all running. That should be ok because these came as STANDARD on my car.
Hey Steve feel free to do so,but I think you will distract drivers a hell of lot more than Foggies do. If you want to stand out that much join the emergency service ,their lights come with pretty red and blue colours :)
As Wheelnut said ,in his opinion ” Fog lights / Driving lights are no more startling or distracting to other drivers than the Premium High Intensity Discharge [HID] or Xenon style lights”
If you think your FOG lights should be on even if it is a crystal clear night try this little experiment.
Get yourself a laser pen and try and light up the road,
not much good, now turn it around and shine it in your eyes.
Painful?
NZ Drivers are dumb. There are 2 kinds: 1. buys a European car and turns the light switch on, gets the headlights working… but hang on – there is something else here, another light symbol that I can turn on (the front fog lights) cool… and hang on mate, another symbol and this time it’s an orange one on my dashboard (the annoyingly bright rear foglight, usually just on one side of vehicle) – cool, look at me I’ve got it worked out – even though I’m not at all sure what I just switched on – hey there are some people flashing their lights at me but NAH, I’m a kiwi in a new Euro car, had to re-mortgage my house to get it and my kids have white bread with marmite for school lunches all year but here I am – the dazzling KING OF THE ROAD. 2. Buys a Japanese car that has everything copied from the European models last year, it’s called Toyota Gina Preceed Fury Explore Bounty Jammo LXT GXY Mark 16 and this time the fog lights are HUGE, they are bigger than the actual headlights and off he goes, down the Gt North Rd, all the lights on he can find + an air freshener.
It’s all just another part of dumb kiwi car obsession even though it totally defies common sense.
FOG LIGHTS FOR FOG CONDITIONS – could it be simpler?
PS. If you drive in continental Europe and you have your foglights switched on during normal weather you are likely to get pulled over by a cop.
Sorry, forgot about you dudes that buy those ugly Aussie petrol guzzling monsters – you are the same as type 2 even though your kids have white bread for lunch because you think that’s health food.
Cheers!
Here in the good ole USA a lot of people drive around with their DRIVING lights on all of the time. These are ultrabright and generally poorly aimed. I guess over here they don’t need to be wired so that they can only run with the high-beams on (as a side note, fog lights must be wired to turn off when the high beams are on in most states, but allowed with normal headlights). During the day it is only idiotic show-offsmanship, at night, in the curvey mountainous country roads it is damn dangerous.
I stumbled upon this thread while researching fog & driving lights, as I want to improve the lighting on my car. The backroads are VERY dark around here. We also get a fair amount of thick fog. I lot of people sell crap around here (even internationally known name-brands make crap), so I wanted some solid info so as to not waste money.
my findings:
As I always thought, fog lights are for use in fog. The cast a low wide “beam” to show the sides fo the road & the area immediately in front of you. For low speed use. Yellow was used 70 years ago due to the science of the day as far as refraction, we know better now. It still might make sense regarding on-coming traffic being able to see you better.
Driving lights are for improved nightime rural driving & should be (everywhere in the civilized world (that does, by default, exclude the US)) linked to the high-beams.
Is driving with lights brighter than the sun the most dangerous thing people do behind the wheel? NO. But it is dangerous & worthy of an internet thread (& regulation).
I see a lot of this going on:
Speeding up in foul weather. The more foul, the faster. They have to prove how fast they can go on ice & snow covered roadways (usually end up passing these people again when their car is stopped by a tree 50′ off the road).
45mph in an active (busy) parking lot – than the same person will do 55mph on the expressway (with a 65mph speed limit) unless its in a construction zone, then its 70mph with a 55 mph speed limit.
Tailgate.
Aggresively tailgate.
Drive like complete maniacs – no need for details.
Speed up to red lights.
Slow down for green lights.
Sorry for my rant, but a lot of Americans don’t know how to drive.
Driving with fog lights on at times of no fog is illegal and offensive. Commodore, Falcon, and Subaru owners please note that you are the worst offenders on the roads, you DO NOT look good, you are only proving just how ignorant and offensive YOU are. Other road users do not like you and the fact that one person has already been bashed to death in this country because of fog lights should tell you something. While I do not condone this, as a professional driver I see it all day, every day. Lets look at changing vehicle standards and have fog lights banned from ALL locally built and imported vehicles including trucks and buses.
It is clear this piece has somewhat deteriated
Shermann said” I have a 150W Hella orange spot mounted on the parcel shelf aimed right at you when you flash your stupid high beam at me”.
Wankers like these are the issue with tis country. I bet you Shermann is driving slow as a dead donkey annoying the crap out ootyher drivers. So when someone flashes him he feels offended? Why becuase it is clear someone is ponting out his inability to drive and causing safety concernes for all road users around him. So Sherman instead of wasting time/money (it is clear you a repeat wanker who can;t drive whihc has been poited out by multiple people flashing you) – sell your light and spend the money on driving lessons – ignoramous!!!
Back to the issue – fog lights during the day when there is low light (such as sun hidden by clouds) fog light especially rear ones can be quite dazzling. Even during rain and other low light condition rear fog lights are also dazzling. As such the law states use fog lights only during fog – which is how it should be.
All I can hope is this is a windup,:Shermann said” I have a 150W Hella orange spot mounted on the parcel shelf aimed right at you when you flash your stupid high beam at me”.
but if its for real I sincerely hope that the practice is detected by law enforcement and vermin like Shermann is removed from the roads before someone gets hurt.
I found this thread so interesting I thought I should comment. I’ve been driving on Australian roads for 10+ years and have never been “dazzled” by front mounted fog lights! Is this really a problem? I see Subaru and Holden drivers running their stock, front, fog lamps as daytime running lights all the time, and I’ve never once had any trouble with them. In fact, I’ve always thought they increased the visibilty of the vehicle and were a superb safety enhancer (increased visibility). Especially given there are so many silver and dark grey cars on the road doing their best to blend in.
Is it so common for other drivers to be dazzled by them? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a set powerful enough to acheive such a result. I know the fog lights on my Gen3 (1999) Outback couldn’t be used as a reading light! Certainly street lights are more dazzling. At any angle my fog lights are the equivilent of dim daytime running lights, at best!
All that said, I can’t agree more about rear fog lamps being a hinderance in Oz. I think the “dazzle” argument is a farse, but they do decrease the effectiveness of the braking light signals, as in many cases it seems like the driver is braking constantly, and when they do actually brake, the contrast of this added brightness (usually only one side) is vastly diminished. There’s nothing worse.
NacaYoda, fog lights don’t dazzle because they are pointed at the ground, which is how they work through fog as its less dense on the ground. However when a car with fog lights on either crests a hill or hits a bump and the fog light flicks up, it can be dazzling, as they are higher intensity than normal headlights.
There seems to be plenty of Police on the road to issue tickets for using a hand held mobile phone or not wearing a seat belt but they are not interested in enforcing the improper use of fog light law. Maybe if the fine was increased to a realistic level plus loss of points we may see some action.
Scherman says:’Thats a shame because when driving, don’t you just hate those tailgaters jerk-offs that sit right up your ass on the freeway at 120 kph, specially in wet water spray, low visibility weather!’
So you travel at 120kph in low visibility, that’s safe and within the speed limit where?
Please, enough about how you are a safe driver etc.
We have your bully and antisemtic comments thrown in as well, as soon as oafish cretons such as yourself are forced off the road and perhaps out of this country(you are a disgrace) the better.
I have submitted a complaint to the site about you, and hopefully this post and all the drivel from Scherman will be removed when i next visit.
At long last people feel the same as I do about these useless bloody lights. I live in the country with fog from around 9pm to nearly noon the next day on occassions. My car has foglights and I didn’t void the warranty I would remove them. Not only are they blinding others, they don’t work in the damn fog anyway! Why manufacturers produce this crap is beyond me. The sooner the police start acting on this illegal practice of using the light without fog around the better. Although I have found that they do light up the sides of the road a bit more while watching out for roos at night, but not enough to make them worth while having, let alone using.
BAN THEM!
What a load. Foglights are nowhwere near as bright as headlights and are facing towards the ground. They blind no one who is driving as they should. if 4 glowing objects excites you that much that you have to stare into them then being blinded is not your problem… idiots. if you have any clue whats going on you will find its not the foglights but the headlights you are affected by.
Totally agree with Matt. I do a lot of night driving and see a lot of cars with foglights on and they don’t annoy me one bit. It’s only a minority of vehicles that have them mis-aligned that could cause some glare (not enough to annoy or be dangerous), but nowhere near as glaring as mis-aligned headlights. FYI, I do not have foglights on my car but would use them if I had them. Foglights are positioned too low and only cast a beam within about 10m of the vehicle, so how can they be blinding? (unless you’re only 1 foot tall and standing directly in front of the vehicle) There seems to be a lot of whingers in this country. It could be due to the “tall poppy syndrome”. The rest of the world does not complain about something as petty as this.
Did you know that fog lights are now illegal in SA now just like many of the other states have been for ages.
many other countries have similar laws.
But I see more people using them??????
Well they tick me off! like rear fog lights!!!!!
I see bucket load of misaligned foggies
I drive most of the time in darkness to and from work for 1.5 hours each way, i have spotties but I dont use foggies.
I often drive in foggy conditions but never need to use foggies.
My previous car had 750w of light on high beam, so I have no issue with high beam activated lights.
Rob, they are illegal in some Australian states so that the authorities can have an excuse to raise revenue. Only mis-informed people like yourself believe that because they’re illegal, they must be dangerous. You see more people using them, most of them probably harmless, yet they tick you off! Why is that? Tall Poppy Syndrome! You claim you see bucket loads of misaligned foggies, probably because you can’t stop staring at them due to your attitude towards them. The fact is most OEM foggies are aligned correctly and cast a beam too low and too short to be dangerous.
Jonothan and Matt, it would pay to do some research on the beams of fog lights, I did spell it out above, but seems you couldnt be bothered reading that far back?
Fog lights project a wide beam of light, to both sides of the car and more importantly in the direction of uncoming traffic. Properly setup low beam headlights have a beam cut off and dont direct significant amounts of light onto the right side of the road. Properly setup foglights will, otherwise they would be quite useless for use in the conditions where fog lights are needed, which for those that care to know are in white out conditions and given the low forward reach of the beam would mean at speeds of less than 40km/h.
20 years ago there wasnt a need for this law. People who drove who went to the trouble of fitting fog lights, fitted them because they needed them in Alpine areas and realised when their use was appropriate and didnt feel the need to drive with them on in suburbia for whatever lame reason.
Unfortunately a law has had to be now introduced due to manufacturers loading up cars with options that are then used by some cretons that dont realise or dont care what they are doing is highly dangerous and not in the interest of others in the community.
Yes, and we have the creton view, if you dont understand the law, it must be there to raise taxes…….
Well said Izaak.
How can the road toll be so low with so many idiots actually believing that their fog lights make either them or anyone else safer.
Only hope I can see is market forces, if enough have insurance claims denied due to running car in illegal mode the fassion will change.
Izaak, Paul and Steve are right, fog lights can be extremely obnoxious, though they vary a lot from model to model. I find the ones on late ’90s – early ’00s Subarus and Ford Explorers to be the most annoying, the ones on European cars are generally the least. I’ve only found them useful in heavy snowfall and in rain on highways, where spray from other cars and trucks is a problem. Though marginally useful, the truth is that they serve mainly as a white-trash fashion statement in the US. There was an effort to require that US vehicles with fog lights be wired so that they could not be “left on” between trips, requiring the driver to manually activate them each time the car was started; this will prevent negligent use of them and might discourage “showboating”, if it ever gets approved. The money spent on fogs would be much better used for cornering lights, which are far more useful, they could even include a manual switch and serve double duty in fog and snow. But cornering lights aren’t seen as shouting “look at me” to the rest of the world the way fog lights do, so they’re relatively rare.
PCL, Australia follows the Global Technical Rules for vehicle construction administered by the UNECE, as “ADR’s”, somewhat different in regards ‘lighting’ as those of the US FMVSS108 and the recommended practice under SAE.
Though our front fog photometrics are pretty much harmonized now.
Use of the front and rear fog lamps in Australia is held at ARR 217 (AUS Road Rules) and that rule is now mostly harmonized with the “UN Convention on Road Traffic, Road Signs & Signals” on the matter.
Related:- Australia does not yet have a mandatory DRL ADR requirement, and that may not happen here, or in the UNECE Regs, therefore such an item may be left ‘optional’. I note more recent NHTSA studies are not so favourable of the item.
In time Australia will;
* Adopt a mandatory ‘rear fog function’ for most categories of new-market vehicles.
* Adopt safety vests for cars, a la EU for breakdowns and crash scenes.
* Adopt the UNECE 27R Spec hazard-warning triangle for cars, vans and 4WD’s.
http://www.nbntv.com.au/index......de-safety/
* Will likely encourage fire extinguishers in certain vehicles.
The each state as usual is to increase enforcement of ‘use’.
Good post Keepleft. The problem with these lights is that once they have been turned on once, they come on every time you turn the headlights on. I wrote to Department of Transport, asking why we did not have an ADR requirement for “default off” wiring, and they also quoted UNECE as their basis for the current law. Peugeot and BMW and maybe others are fitting this to their cars already so that you have to turn these lights on EVERY time you want to use them. Most of the people driving around with their fog lights on think that the warning light is just part of the dashboard decoration.
Interestingly, UNECE also mentions that the emission implications of lighting have to be considered. As fog lights contribute an extra 3g/km to emissions we may see default off wiring become compulsory to reduce emissions. Always good to see a Prius running around with the fog lights on. Obviously Toyota doesn’t care enough about emissions to remove them from the spec.
UNECE 38, the global land transport regulation regarding rear fog lamps, and its inter-relationship with UNECE 48 is always an ongoing work in progress as technical advances are made, and working party discussion takes place. That your all on top of it seems!
So, I do know that in relation to the rear fog lamp function, we will soon see the requirement that the lamp is to extinguish, each-time – the car is switched off! Done,- to prevent the ’stray’ mis-use of the lamp function, in much the manner you highlight.
Another change on the way by updated UNECE 38, is what is best described as ‘automatic’ rear fog lights, here,- using newer LED and ’sensor’ technologies, the worse the visibility; the brighter the regular tail-portion of the lamp will become.
Stop-lamp separation from the rear fog lamp function will remain at 100mm minimum – as a separate function, naturally.
UNECE changes to front fog lamp regulation has been made in relation to newer LED technologies too:- LED front fog lamp compliance codes will bear the letter “F” and a number. Halogen compliance marking continues with the usual age-old letter “B”.
Australia simply updates the ADR version of the UNECE regs as often as it can, so the later EU made cars – do have some of those function-modifications sooner, legally – because we simply adopt it anyhow, albiet slower, and for harmonisation:-)
You might find this Singaporean government FAQ weblink interesting, see ‘penalties’ for mis-using front and rear fog lamps at Question 5, some readers here in Australia can be thankful:-)
http://ask.lta.gov.sg/home/lta.....52#2289838
NSW Government is to seek a compulsory rear fog lamp ADR:-
http://www.boostcruising.com/f.....pic=450922
I posted here some time ago, but still what some dont get for starters is that especially in Fog conditions using foglights while your low or high beam is still on is USELESS. The light from your headlights gets reflected back by the moister droplets that are hanging in the air that is the Fog. Light from foglights work because the are low and their ‘upwards’ going beams are reflected back towards the ground and as Fog usually ‘hovers’ a little distance above the ground , allow to see through the fog in a manner of speaking. This is why on a Mercedes for example when you turn on the fog lights, automatically your headlights revert to parkers. Foglights on during non fog conditions are DANGEROUS as well as Illegal. And rear foglight should not come on as soon as you have the front once on, again on a Mercedes you have to pull the switch a further step to turn it on aswell. Those of you that think and use fog and driving lights as a ‘fashion statement’ I can only hope that for your and others sake you dont cause a fatal accident with your fashion statement and then find out that your insurance company wont pay up because they get informed by the police that you illegally used those lights (just like a drink driver not being covered by their insurance if they have a prang).
Getting off the subject a bit but has anyone reading this blog ever taken a traffic
infringement to court? And how did you get on?
Here is one item from the Singapore website.
Q Why is the use of fog lamps allowed only during adverse weather conditions?
A Under normal weather conditions, be it in the day or at night, there is no need to switch on the fog lamps. This is because the light emitted from vehicle headlamps is sufficient to illuminate the road ahead. Switching on front fog lamps will not further improve forward vision under clear weather conditions. Some drivers have provided feedback that front fog lamps, when switched on indiscriminately, are intimidating and cause added stress to the driver in front. Switching on rear fog lamps unnecessarily may also cause confusion to motorists travelling behind you as the intense red light emitted could be mistaken as the brake light.
Izaak I work in a dealership and deal with parts dept, I know all about their beams and the way they are cut.
They do not blind oncoming drivers. Its that simple. They aim wide and to the ground. Do not go on about misaligned foglights as that is irrelevant to this topic.. misaligned can be headlights, taillights, even mirrors.
Headlights have a harsher effect on your eyes than foggies. I will happily accept that they annoy you, no problem with me – thats yours. But to say they are dangerous and ‘blinding’ – Untrue.
When you stare at a vehicle with foggies on you are being blinded by the headlights! and your own stupidity. NOT the foggies.
The new Fog light laws are ridiculous. I remember people installing Fog lights on their cars back in the Seventies. These lights were yellow. The so-called fog lights on most modern vehicles are really ditch lights. They serve to illuminate the sides of the road to watch out for kangaroos, other wildlife, late night pedestrians, bicycle riders and many other hazards. To say that they affect other drivers, particularly Semi Drivers is wrong. They are a safety feature and should be allowed to be used as such. What about the hazard of Semi’s with more lights on them than a 20 foot Christmas tree. Is there a law against these vehicles and the amount of lights that they are allowed to have. What a joke.
Matt said that FOG lights are not blinding. To him maybe.
If I poked him in the arm with a sharp stick I could say that does not hurt.
The fine in Singapore for improper use of fog lights is $1000, bring it on here I say.
Tony
what a bunch of crap if you think fog lights are bright then bloody hell stop being a bunch of pussys be a man deal with it
Paul Maric wears a skirt and a bra
Paul, I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s become trendy in England to drive around with fog lamps on. The laws in England are very specific about this:
“You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.”
The fact that some people even consider this to be a debatable point speaks volumes both of their ignorance, and their driving experience. Unfortunately as the more experienced of us know, our roads are filling with the testosterone rich, knowledge poor. We need better and continuous public education of road regulations, backed up by a big stick! ;)
James
Sounds like a simple case of Foglight Envy to me. They don’t blind anyone, but if you feel you’re missing out, then go get yourself a set and stop whinging!!