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Holden responds to industry collapse speculation

By George Skentzos |

A spokesperson from Holden has issued a passionate response to recent comments made by Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the car buyers’ Dog & Lemon Guide, in regards to speculation that the Australian car industry is poised to collapse.

This genuinely sincere statement is far more profound than we have come to expect from a media release, which is why we have decided to reproduce it here verbatim.

STATEMENT IN RESPONSE TO AUTO INDUSTRY SPECULATION

What gives one person the right to call ‘time’ on an entire industry with more than 60,000 jobs at stake? What data is he basing his views on when happily sounding the death knell for Australian car makers and employees?

We’ve never had a request from this individual to speak with our executives, to discuss our company business plans or review the business case for our new fuel efficient 4 cylinder small car.

This is shameless self-promotion at the expense of our industry, our organisation and our employees.

For the record, Holden has had the best selling car in the country for 13 consecutive years and we’re not going anywhere. We’re in there fighting in a pretty tough global environment and we won’t be discouraged by bystanders.

Background

Automotive manufacturing is the largest manufacturing sector in Australia. It supports about 64,000 families and puts $5 billion in wages back into the economy each year. Holden contributed $500 million in wages last year and invested $420 million in research and development.

Holden recently announced that it will produce a second car line based on General Motors’ global Delta small car platform. GM’s own viability plan highlighted that the introduction of the second car line puts Holden in a long term viable position.

We believe that the Australian Government’s recently announced $6.2 billion industry support package will be a driver for innovation at Holden and other Australian manufacturers across the next decade.

Holden and the Australian automotive industry have a lot to be proud of. It’s worth fighting for.

END OF RELEASE


 
  • http://bent Millatime

    This media release, or more accurately shameless self promotion, can be as profound and genuinely sincere as it likes. It makes not one bit of difference. Fact is the decision to fold or not is simply not Holdens to make.

  • Autogyro

    Nobody asked me if I wanted to fund Holden out of my taxpaying money for their ‘innovations’ which they seem inept to be able to achieve on their own accord.

    “Holden and the Australian automotive industry have a lot to be proud of.”

    Such as? Is it their cunning ability to persuade the government to impose ludicrous import tariffs on overseas competitors? Or is it the masterful budgeting which, although requiring a massive injection of funds just to survive, leaves Holden in prime position to endure the downturn?

  • William

    Nicely said Autogyro.

    To be fair other local players have been just as bad.

    For patriotic and other reasons many countries support car firms. However, unending import tariffs, a stream of taxpayer subsidies and other such measures leave us all considerably worse off in the long run.

  • Confused

    Passionate but misleading statement.
    That guy may not be quite an expert, and neither was his prediction his original discovery. Everyone knows that car industries, not only Holden, will struggle to survive.

  • JasonP

    Australia has quite low import tariffs on cars these days, especially compared to Japan for example.

    Nobody asked me if I wanted my Gov’t to give $35million to Toyota, to simply import the hybrid drivetrain for the Camry, & bolt it in.
    How does that support the car industry here?
    They aren’t sourcing the parts here, just importing everything.

    They should have been offering this model all along, rather than just the PreArse.

  • Local Guy

    Holden will be the one to go down, hopefully

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Lovely piece of PR puffery, but it doesn’t change a thing about the basic economic impossibility of continuing to make cars in Australia. Shifting the costs onto the taxpayer is not the answer.

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Masynee

    It’s nice to see a bit of a passion from a corporation. It’s very rare. I like the fire Reuss is displaying.

    You may not like the govt’s p[lan, but that’s not Holden’s fault. It’s their job to stay in business. They’re definitely trying hard.

    Why not be proud of our local car industry? The FG Falcon is th best large car in the world for the money, and on a gloabl scale it was developed from a pittance.

    Good one Holden. Now back up your PR statement with a much needed revamp of your car range.

  • Tek

    If Holden is serious are they considering electric cars?

    http://www.betterplace.com/press-room/videos-detail/australia-press-qa/

  • Supply & Demand

    I wonder how much of this newly found passion went into the decision to destroy the Holden image with cheap Korean imports.

  • Brett

    No facts; just emotional play and spin. Typical Holden; no substance, yet again.

  • eh179driver

    I love you guys. You are all a bunch of wannabe journo’s. I just hope that if the car industry here fails, every single one of you fools losses your jobs and houses and stays on the long term unemplyment list like the other 60’000 car industry employees that you are so keen to see on the scrap heap. Autogyro, are you such a moron that you think your taxes won’t increase if the car industry goes? Think about you idiot, YOUR TAXES HAVE TO PAY FOR THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS? You might not like Fords, Holdens or Toyotas but if they go then where do all the jobs, training, engineers go! You all make me sick!

  • Pious

    Pretty lukewarm, really. I thought it was outrageous that the article promoted the fellow as an “expert” which was grossly misleading, but GMH have not responded to the specific reasons alleging why the company must fail long term. The absence of that response, and the heavy reliance in the statement on the $6B grant really only goes to support the proposition that there is a major problem. Very poorly done, IMO. It has just poured petrol onto the fire.

  • lazybones

    Personally I think Mr Wilson is stepping the mark, but Holdens rebuttal strikes me as very baseless and more emotional than anything. They haven’t answered any his main comments of:-

    “He said Holden will be the first to go” & “Australia’s car factories are losing money on every vehicle they make”

    June will be an interesting month for Holden.

  • Future Man

    June will been Interesting month for the WHOLE WORLD,hold on to your hats.

  • The Realist

    *** Holden and Australians are doing it tougher! ***

    Perhaps the Holden rep could explain why our wages are so high whilst productivity is low. Would the tax from $5 Billion in wages cover all the tax payer handouts…?

    There have been quite a few articles written about the state of our automotive industry which have never provoked responses from Holden… Seems the recent comments must have touched a raw nerve… is the writing on the wall?

  • Lukaas

    Losing Holden is a huge loss, because the entire manufacturing plant(s) will go, the finance/marketing sector goes… the engineers/r&d staff cannot go to GM, since GM is going bankrupt too.

    The only way Holden survives, when GM folds, will be if they are sold… sold to a local company.. if not local, maybe an international company that for some reason WANTS the plant here. The engineers/r&d staff (some or most of them) will have to relocate wherever the new owners need them to be.

    If sold to another automotive company, which is unlikely since most are struggling and no one wants 26 Billion USD debt… then 75% of the staff (primarily manufacturing plant, sales/marketing will go). Engineering/ R&D staff are skilled and highly qualified enough to be employ to study cost cut on future design(s) and/or technical support.

    But the other BIG loss will be the suppliers, in particular first tier suppliers that only have 1 or 2 manufacturers they supply for. Thousands of jobs gone just like that.

    Someone stated that “tax payers” are paying to keep these companies afloat… through Government support.

    But losing 90% of the automotive industry will collapse the economy and will take a decade or 2 to recover… thats 60,000+ unemployed, with a few hundred thousands of other individuals affected. Workforce will be full of experienced staff which will then be hired (some) to the expense of younger workers…

    Who will hire graduates? Who will hire 1-2 year experienced workers if there are 5+ years staff out there with families to support… its a HR and moral dilemma…

    the economy is highly supported by these “young” 20-35 year old market… currently most are not affected by the recession as bad as family people, but if they feel threathened or lose their jobs or optimism…. Australia’s economy is doomed for a very long time…. say goodbye to the things you take for granted everyday…

    Bottomline, the government KNOWS what they have to do to prevent Australia to collapse… its sad to see some here just say doom and gloom… which is easy… because to them it makes sense… but the government/manufacturing sector is fighting “logic” to save the Australian economy so your children won’t have to suffer…

  • http://skyline The Salesman is an expert to…..NOW.

    Who could have predicted the massive consumer shift from six cylinder cars? Why would Holden or Ford think about producing a four when they couldn’t make enough Commodores and Falcons to supply demand? You would be very foolish to think the local manufactures would completely cease to exist in Australia. In one form or another they will continue to produce. The market will recover. And all the doom Sayers will have egg on their face. I guarantee it.

  • Tim

    Just keeping sending us those Daewoo’s Holden…I’m sure you will survive then!

  • Local Guy

    GM has lost some $US80 billion ($A109.69 billion) over the last four years. But the company has been brought to the brink only in the last few months as the US recession has driven US car sales to 25-year lows.

    They were losing money way way before the shit hit the fan………….couldnt they see this?

  • Dlr1

    I would like to congratulate Holden on publicly replying to the “expert” Matthew Clive-Wilson. Public perception and consumer confidence are probably two of the most important factors in the marketing of any high priced (automotive) purchase. Holden clearly dont want to die a death that Mitsubishi Australia faced. The writing was on the wall for several years that the 380 wasn’t meeting sales targets and its days were numbered, as such sales slowed to a trickle, despite it being a better car than it was perceived to be. Spruiking that Holden or Ford (with their indigenous products) are heading to the wall could have the same effect.

  • Lukaas

    And to add to Local Guy,

    Its basically GM/Ford’s executive not budging when they saw the change.

    Maybe they had other agendas or alterior motives, maybe shares with companies that supplierd V6/V8, large car parts… who knows.

    Also, Toyota has never posted a loss until earlier this year and are forecasted for the next year also, before that they were setting records sales for 4-5 years in a row, globally. And they have adapted well to the change of market, for instance, only making V6 cars for upmarket (eg Aurion etc).
    Most of their high sellers are 4 cylinders… and hybrid (first world wide).

    They would have to be losing billions for several years in a row to consider closing plants…. currently it seems just like all other manufacturers they are in “profit-saving” mode… if not “loss-minimization” mode.

  • Sean

    Things will get worse before they get any better.

    But whether you be a realist, a cynic or a hopeless optimist, the prospect of Australia’s car industry collapsing is frightening. We’re not talking just Holden – if that Matthew-Wilson bloke is right then we’re talking massive impact and restructuring of our economy if Holden, Ford, Toyota and their suppliers stop, even to lie idle until a cashed-up buyer comes along to what could be a Rick Hart style car-park sale.

    So Holden PR spat out a retort. If they hadn’t bothered, then there’d be accusations that they don’t care. Holden, Ford and Toyota are in no-win situations as the media, think-tank groups and self-aggrandising speculators put their five-cents out there to continue fanning the flames of the GFC.

    I proudly support Holden for making comment. They’re fighting to stay afloat, the same way that Ford is. Neither company is sitting waiting for the world to cave in on them – they’re making changes and responding to the situation. Both companies have been caught out with big cars and both are working to make them viable vehicle lines. You think Ford is happy to see the FG and the Territory wallowing?

    So the Govt is pouring $$ in to help – and bollocks to those who say “they weren’t asked where their taxes should go”! Perhaps they’ll be the same people who will go out with KRudd’s non-tax-payer-authorised stimulus chequeand buy a set-top box or new flat-screen TV.

    We read CA because we’re passionate about cars and the industry. If you feel it is doomed and don’t want to support the Australian automotive industry and all it encompasses, then please don’t denigrate those who want to.

    And that includes Holden.

  • Sam

    “For the record, Holden has had the best selling car in the country for 13 consecutive years and we’re not going anywhere.” They sound like famous last words to me. No mention of the fact that 13 years ago they sold twice as many Commodores as they did last year or that month by month this year, they have been outgunned by Corolla, HiLux and Mazda 3 (or was that last year??)……For the record, I think they are as stuffed as Miss Piggy with GM desperately trying to dodgy bankruptcy. Holden may well survive but who knows who the new owners might be? In these uncertain times, any opinion is valid. Its still a country with freedom of speech right?

  • http://bent Millatime

    For years and years and years GM would vigorously tug on the heart strings of Australians, saying it was actually Australia’s own blah blah blah. For all those years the song should’ve gone like this;
    Baseball, donuts, rattle snakes and Holden cars..
    And for the last 5 years or so like this;
    Tae kwon Do, fried lice, wild dogs and Holden cars…
    Or more accurately this;
    Korean imports, too many lies, Holden died decades ago..

    The sooner GM closes it’s Australian operations the better. Realistically, let the Government spend it’s assistance money on the 2 strongest manufacturers here and give them a glimmer of hope.

    It’s the triage principal, devote time and resources to those that can be saved, not those about to draw their last breath and expire.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Good to see Holden have replied now all we need is Ford and Toyotas response,the so called EXPERT predicted all 3 would go remember ……..so why are you jumping on Holdens response, Wilson is an idiot for making such remarks .

    Australia needs competition people,and all you Ford fans cheering the doors to be closed on Holden need to wake up ,without Holden being there as competition for years Ford wouldnt have move forward anywhere as fast as they have You certainly wouldnt have FPV and Toyota wouldnt have had a go at trying to enter the Performance market with TRD.So think about what will or may happen to Ford in Australia if Holden go ,and grow up !

    Oh and as a Ford fan myself I would hate to see Ford pull the pin on the V8 in the future let alone FPV !Think about that!

  • http://bent Millatime

    BM – You are right, it’s competition that improves the breed, and if GM pack up and leave, there will still be competition! Ford will always cater for the performance market, they always have. Ceck out the latest Focus RS, Phwooaarrrrr!!

    Was it Bob Dylan that sang “..these times they are a-changing..” way back in the 60′s? Whoever it was, these times they are still a changing, and V8′s might disappear too, but performance cars won’t! ;-)

  • Frontman

    I was going to go into a rhetoric about how plain short sighted and tunnel visioned some people here are about the gleee the recieve with the prospect of the Australian Auto industry going down, but figured it would just be a waste of time. Well with the attitude of a lot of the bloggers here, Paul Keating may well get his wish and Aust will become a banana republic. I wish all you who are so much against Australian all the best in the future, because what you are aiming for is pretty dismal. We rode the sheeps back until it broke or we got under cut, then we went with wheat until that got husky or Russia learnt how to grow it. Now as you hope the last bastion of real manufacturing left in the country to die, we are already seeing the multinational owned minning corporation starting to shut down and pull out so there goes all of our export income. Just wher do you think you and your children are going to get a job?? Maybe we could always model ourselves on Argentina.

  • the fact

    Why would Holden or Ford think about producing a four when they couldn’t make enough Commodores and Falcons to supply demand?by the sale man….
    you are a joke…right?just a few year back…commodores and falcons were selling around 9000 and 7000 a month respectively….then 2 dinosaurs sales declined like a rock and now 3500 and 1900 a month.even in the boom economic time smart Aussies stayed away from these 2 dinosaurs.holden tried with 4 cylinder vectra and failed that one too.innovation fund?korean desinged 4 cylinder to be built here?sorry…its all too late and just not gonna happen.

  • the fact

    you cannot survive without world class quality products and able to export to the world.with only poor quality fleet cars…you will not survive.end of story.

  • http://bent Millatime

    That’s a bit dramatic isn’t it frontman? The mining companies are not shutting down. And using the car industry’s figures, it only represents just over 1% of the workforce.

    Why do we need manufacturing? Defence? Our meagre defence forces would be overrun before our factories could be converted to a war time footing. It’s our alliances we depend on. Job’s? Why prop up industries that are only a burden on the tax payer? Most western countries cannot compete with Asian labour rates, so why fight a battle you cannot win?

    If all of this industry assistance funding went into developing new and productive industries, that put something back into the community rather than being a drain on it, Australia would be a far stronger and wealthy country with higher standards of living for everyone.

    Now to put that into perspective, about 100 years ago the closing of the whaling industry was said to be the end of the world as we knew it, was it?

    It’ll take time to develop new industries, now’s the perfect time to start.

  • Autogyro

    The way the Australian auto industry has operated has bred a notion of inefficiency and complacency. At what point does the marginal cost to each Australian, having to pay additional taxes ad nauseum or foot excessive amounts for imported brands, outweigh the temporary loss of jobs for its employees?

    How long should we have to wait to see some true innovation from the Australian car industry, that our vehicles will stand up to international scrutiny and carve its own niche and stand proud? Are we to continue funding this contemptuous business model built upon the foundations of overpaid executives, slow to react and out of touch with the consumer, for the next 20+ years as Holden and Ford make a slow recovery from their fiduciary coma?

    Does anyone seriously expect Holden to turn into a small hybrid/electric vehicle producer? The minute their cash flow hits the black, is when they’ll release their next HSV.

    I’m not a Holden fan, I’m not a Ford fan (honestly I probably Holdens more than Fords), and I’m not a Toyota fan. I’m a fan of ingenuity, innovation and technological improvement. The aim is not for the Australian car industry to collapse. But the notion that Holden can change its ways, based upon a single heated press release, predicated on the need for additional government handouts just to get started, is not something I take to lightly.

  • eveready

    Why do we need manufacturing?

    UK is a great example, completely gutting its manufacturing industry – it is now essentially a single sector economy that is expected to be the hardest hit by the recession of all OECD countries.

  • Supply & Demand

    I feel I might be guilty of being overly little harsh on Holden. I just read the annual sales results for the Barina and Epica/Vectra for the last ten years and it appears those vehicles are selling just as well if not better than their predecessors that only offered relatively tiny margins. As for the VE, I’m still left wondering why so much was invested in a car designed to compete in the fastest declining market segment made up of only a handful of manufacturers. Commodore sales have been steadily declining since peaking at 88,000 in 2002 so what on earth made Holden think they were on to a winner?

  • http://bent Millatime

    Eveready;

    If you are going to quote me..

    “Why do we need manufacturing?”

    ..in order not to look like an idiot..

    “If all of this industry assistance funding went into developing new and productive industries..”

    ..you should not distort what I am saying..

    “It’ll take time to develop new industries, now’s the perfect time to start.”

  • Alex

    Well they’re gonna look a bit foolish in two months when GM goes bankrupt. Holden better go with them too. We don’t need cars like that anymore and we don’t need a boring little sedan with semi good quality but hey, it’s fuel efficient so I guess that’s OK. Holden, the rest of the competiton is also fuel efficient and many offer diesels. Would you buy a Holden insead of an i30 diesel?
    They need to face it. They’re too far behind to come up now and does anybody even want them too?
    Money would be better spent on finding jobs for the people who are gonna lose them. 60,000 jobs. You can’t just keep them all going building cars that nobody needs or wants just because of jobs. It’s not that simple.
    It’s time to face it. The lion is not so mighty anymore.

  • max

    What gives one person the right to call ‘time’ on an entire industry with more than 60,000 jobs at stake? What data is he basing his views on when happily sounding the death knell for Australian car makers and employees? – Holden

    Actually, I thought the biggest worry was Holden actually responding to Clive’s comments by way of this media release.
    His views have been well known for years now, and they respond to one individual? PANIC baby.

    We’ve never had a request from this individual to speak with our executives, to discuss our company business plans or review the business case for our new fuel efficient 4 cylinder small car. – Holden

    A new fuel efficient 4 cylinder…wow, breathtaking stuff there. If they cant make money building big cars in OZ, no hope with small cars, tried before and failed.

    Holden recently announced that it will produce a second car line based on General Motors’ global Delta small car platform. GM’s own viability plan highlighted that the introduction of the second car line puts Holden in a long term viable position. – Holden

    GM’s viability has inspired congress to send them to C11 in forty odd days, I guess they didn’t think much of it either. BTW, that same plan clearly indicated that Holden is only viable with taxpayer funding, notice that wasn’t mentioned in Holden’s media release. But, hey, whats the truth got to do with it.

  • Minnow

    Why does everyone dish out the local manufacturers for claiming government assistance? Every-other manufacturer has tax incentives, import tariffs and investment subsidies in their domestic market.

    - In Japan, there is a subsidy for hybrids, Japan fiercely kept ALL foreign manufacturers out of Japan.
    - Japan has a $106 Billion investment plan for manufacturing
    -Thailand and Japan have a free trade agreement while Thailand has a 80% tariff on imported vehicles.
    -Russia has just increased its tariffs on imported vehicles
    -Korea has an import tariff of 8% on new cars
    the EU has a 10% import tariff on new cars
    -Vietnam has import tariffs of 80%

    Seeing a trend here? All the East Asian countries from where Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota are manufactured have enormous government support. They have teamed up together through ASEAN to have free trade between each member country so develop something similar to the European Union. They have hug protectionism in their domestic market from players outside their region. All while their workers suffer in substandard conditions. They are paid much less than australians, have much lower living standards and obviously dont have the benefits that australian workers receive from the manufacturers. They have higher populations so labour is cheaper. So of course from that point of view Australia is uncompetitive but considering our import tariff of 10% is inline with other countries and their governments are throwing massive support behind their industries why shouldnt Australia?

    If you people think australia is uncompetitive simply because the government is supporting the industry open your eyes a bit and see what the rest of the world is doing. What Ford and Holden are doing is perfectly reasonable considering Honda, Mazda is doing in Thailand. Using government assistance to take advantage of the cheap labour. Same as BMW, Mercedes setting up manufacturing plants in China.

    Without our manufacturing industry, where else are engineers, draftsmen, designers, going to find work in the south eastern part of Australia? Also include the flow on jobs manufacturing creates in other industries such as accounting, marketing and other services. All our services jobs extends from the manufacturing industry, if we lose it you will lose your job to buy your next imported car.

  • Glenn

    Like i suggested yesterday to all those losers on this site that take delight in wishing the industry to die and in particular Holden why dont you take your view points and publicly display say as the employees are clocking on or off at thier respective plants. The likes of MILLATIME and the rest of you disgust me you bunch of pricks.

  • http://bent Millatime

    Here’s a quick example of what I’m talking about.

    10 or so years ago Australia was a world leader in solar technology, which makes perfect sense given our climate. Then government investment dried up (influence from the coal barons, or the money going into propping up the car industry?) and the industry stalled to the point we are now so far behind the rest of the world it’s disgraceful.

    If ever this country had an opportunity to develop a new industry with massive potential for growth and jobs that ticks all the boxes…

    I’ll just make that point once more; we were a world leader..

  • Dlr1

    Exactly what is wrong with supporting a manuacturing industry in australia? Manufacturing=value adding. It creates economic activity,wealth and skills that will not be replaced by importing replacements… whether the product is automotive, textile, whitegoods or any other consumption item. if you let the industry die where do you employ the 60,000 affected workers? They can’t all become coal miners, farmers or bankers.

  • Glenn

    Millatime
    You make no point whatsoever let me ask you what cutting edge industry to work in and what sort of vehicle do you drive assuming that you actually do have a licence, give us all an insight into what drives you to want to see probably 100,000 plus jobs evaporate then watch the Australian economy collapse you idiot.

  • RoFlmaTiC

    BM said: “Australia needs competition people”

    Ironic, given that competition is exactly what is killing Holden right now.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Your right RoFlmaTiC to a point,I guess there are and have been other other factors that have equally contributed to our local makers having tuff times.

  • http://bent Millatime

    Glenn – The Australian economy won’t collapse for many many reasons. So much hysteria…

    GFM’s Chief Executive in Australia, Mark Reuss, told The Courier Mail this month that he had no plans to seek a government bailout. That’s because he knows the shutters are about to be pulled down for good.

  • Frontman

    Millatime, ask the guys at the Bauxite and Aluminium plants run by Rio, Ask the people who gave up normal jobs to go to WA for minning work as to the viability of minning.
    The advanced technology in Solar Power that you speak of did not fail due to lack of funding, nor moneys going to the motor industry. It failed because it was MUCH cheaper to build the volcaic cells in asia. Korea and Taiwan have some of the most advanced production lines and lowest wages for mas producing that type of equipment. Ad to that the far lower enviromental impact concerns.
    Manufacturing industry has a maasive roll on effect in the general comunity, everthing from uniforms to contract cleaners to waste disposal all ride on the back of manufacturing.
    Why the Australian Automotive industry? Simply because our engineers are capable of doing the seemingly impossible with relatively no financial budget when compared to the rest of the world. Fords I6 is a case in point, as was Holdens Family four engine. Neither owe their creator anything anymore but both were (and I know the knockers won’t accept this but it is true) of an equal standard to the majority of engines used in the world today. Without the local car industry ROH Arrowcrest would fold, as would King springs and Geely would take DSI to China etc etc.

    Alex Why would I buy a Commodore over an i30 for my family car??? Answer Cut and paste and have a read!
    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/14/iihs-finds-sub-compacts-fair-poorly-again
    (Sorry Moderators but it’s the best reason)

    To those who keep refering to Fleet hacks, please have a look at the mass market of the cars you hold in high esteem in Europe. 3 series A4 and C class, as well as Passat, Mondeo, Accord, Laguna are all predominately fleet vehicles. The largest purchasers of Corollas, Prius and Camry’s around the world are fleet buyers? So what are you talking about? In this day of over supply all manufacturers are trying to break into the fleet market.

  • Gavin

    The one lesson we should learn from the GFC is that humankind dramatically overestimate their ability to predict the future. When dealing with events that have so many variables, speculation is useless.

    Stop trying to play Nostradamus, if you want a Prius instead of a V8, go buy one, then shut up. Vice-versa. That is the extent of your obligation, moreover, influence on the car industry.

  • topdog

    Just build the commondores in thailand or china just like all other car makers ,We can still develop and design them here then just build them over seas,Make no dif as all the rest of the holdens and most of the parts for commondore come from over seas so whats the dif

  • Frenchie

    GM have confirmed that the 2010 G8 (V6) will have the 6 speed auto with the 3.6l SIDI engine. So I can’t see Holden going anywhere in the short term.

  • http://bent Millatime

    Ooops, typo, GFM’s should be GM’s!

  • the fact

    one more joke from front man.
    commodore and falcon purely based on fleet market.80% of them went to fleets at rock bottom prices.do not just put your face down into the sand and said i don’t see anything.is it so hard to accept the true?the best one will survive but dinosaur days are numbered.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    “”The Fact”" when are you back at school dude ?

    Where on earth are you coming up with theses percentages quotes ?

    You know your own opinions aren’t Fact dont you ,we all do!

  • Mr Brooksy

    Regardless of what Holden/Toyota/Ford say, I would hate to be the idiot that wrote the drivel about Australia’s Car makers going belly up. Even if this guy is right, to be the one that 60,000 employees can focus their anger on must do allot for his ego if it all ends badly.

    I did think that too many people are almost looking forward to the day that Australia’s Car industry dies. Sure they haven’t adjusted to the demands as quickly as others, but for crying out loud people. We are talking about people’s jobs and livelihoods. Some of the responses really underline the ignorance and insensitivity that we as a nation are showing. No wonder I have such a big job dealing with youth in Australia who only give a damn about themselves, and to hell with anyone else.

    I hope that the measures put in place by Holden/Toyota/Ford can bring them back into profitability as soon as possible. And that those whose futures are being smeared all over our news headlines get the last laugh.

  • eh179driver

    Time to unload again. To DLR1, The Salesman, Lukass, Sean, BM, Millatime, Front Man, Minnow, Glenn, you guys are great. I have been fighting this battle for weeks now. I hope and prey Holden don’t go under (or Ford or Toyota OZ). My father worked for Holden for 40 years. My entire working career has been in the auto industry both for the manufacturers and in component supply. The 60 odd thousand employees that Holden refers to is a bit light on, its closer to 100’000 if yiu start at the mine sites and end at the dealerships. It is one of the largest exporters (second only to mining) we have. It earns billions of dollars for the Tax Man in all sorts of ways. Where will those tax dollars come from? Think about your current tax rate then imagine what will happen when we blow a several hundred billion dollar hole in it. It is a massive employer and trainer in all sorts of trades. If you look at what happened to Dandenong when Holden and Toyota closed the assembly plant (22% unemployment anyone) and imagine that replicated in Broadmedows, Altona and Elizabeth.
    A lot of fools have critisied the Commodore on this blog. Have any of them driven one? They call the Commodore and Falcon dinasours. Why? I drive a VE Sportswagon. The only part that is a bit short on tech is the auto. Other than that its right up to date. 1800kgs, large 5 seater car, averages 10.8 to 11 l/100ks around Melbourne and 8.0/100 on a good run. To me thats all very impressive. To me if Holden goes Ford and Toyota will follow suit because the component supply industry will collapse as will the local toolmaking industry. Then there is no going back. We build world class cars (proven by our great export success with Commodore and Camry/Aurion plus Holden 4 cyl and V6 engines). The cars stack up well with any import that has the same features, engine size, physical dimensions. The quality is spot on.
    One last point I will make is that it is pretty well acknowledged by importers that if the local industry goes, import prices will increase as the domestic industry keeps prices down.

  • http://deleted Alex

    Sorry Frontman, I should have been more clear. I meant why would you buy the car that Holden seem to be gambling their future on (the small car that they are making) over an i30 or a Focus or something like that. The Commodore is completely pointless. Why wouldn’t you just buy a nice Mondeo? It’s not as if the Commodore has good engines, quality or dynamics and it’s not fun to drive so why wouldn’t you buy something more economical, as if not more powerful, better quality, just as spacious. There’s no point to anything Holden do or are doing. I wouldn’t have said that three years ago but the times have changed.

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Masynee

    I’m amazed at the vindictiveness of so many posters against our own products. Why such hostility?

    Do you really want to see all our resouces, all our R&D experts lost? Should all our expertise go overseas to benefit other manufacturers?

    Do you really think all we should do In Australia is dig the ground so other can add value to it overseas and then sell it back to us?

    Why not get behind our country mates and hope they deliver the right products to take us all forward.

  • the fact

    don’t blame us….not our decisions to produce these dinosaurs….you ask yourself…would you buy one of those dinosaurs for $39000 in manual before on road cost?.sorry for the people going to lose their jobs.even $600 billion government handout won’t enough to save these dinosaurs.

  • the fact

    Why not get behind our country mates and hope they deliver the right products to take us all forward by masynee.
    the right products from Korea?all crap daewoos already rebadged as holdens and selling to innocent Aussie.

  • Andrew M

    I also applaud Holden for this response.
    This response was great to see regardless of whether or not his (the lemon guy) predictions will ring true.

    This is no different to a nurse coming out and saying a patient has no hope whilst in intensive care.
    In that situation what would give any hospital staff member any right to come out and be so pesamistic about the future outcome???

    Holden labels the stunt as…….
    “A shameless self-promotion at the expense of our industry, our organisation and our employees.”

    And thats what I and others were banging on about when the statement was released.

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Masynee

    posted by The Fact

    “don’t blame us….not our decisions to produce these dinosaurs….you ask yourself…would you buy one of those dinosaurs for $39000 in manual before on road cost?.sorry for the people going to lose their jobs.even $600 billion government handout won’t enough to save these dinosaurs.”

    Take the FG Falcon as an example of a dinosaur. Please tell me what is out of date about it and how it is inferior to anything else in its price range.

    I assume you’re talking about a base model for $39000? – in which case your figures are WAY off.

    Posted by The Fact:

    “the right products from Korea?all crap daewoos already rebadged as holdens and selling to innocent Aussie.”

    What I actually said was, “Why not get behind our country mates and hope they deliver the right products to take us all forward.”

    Clearly that is not a Daewoo product and I have been very vocal about my opposition to rebadged Daewoos. I am talking about competent vehicles with serious Australian design influence. I will wait for the upcoming delta based Holden to be released before I judge it. And there is no reason to believe that the next generation Focus developed by Ford will not be a very good car as the current model is.

    What I am opposed to is the hybrid Camry – which is simply an imported drivetrain slotted into a Camry chassis. I don’t see why the govt decided to gift Toyota money for this as it required no Australian design and no investment into furthering technology.

    But I don’t bundle every business case as one and right off the whole Australian car industry.

  • the fact

    just go to latest review of falcon….asking $50000 with 4 speed auto?hard to find a car with 4 speed auto and asking for $50000.go to ford website and check rrp .upcoming delta?not going to happen.still dreaming?

  • the fact

    by the way…remember 4 cyclinder vectra?tried and failed.not again.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    TODAYS RUMOR MILL…

    astra is being deleted from the holden range,something about the aussie dollar being too weak to make it worthwhile.apparently there are some good deals on bodykits now…

    cruze,and,wait for it wheelnut…insignia also to be made in adelaide.watch this space…

  • Golfschwein

    Holden are still coy about whether the Cruze is to be built in Adelaide, or the Astra. Yesterday, Bret insisted Reuss is on record saying it’s the Cruze, but I don’t recall seeing anything of that. I might be wrong. The website says zilch. Could it be why you say the Astra’s for the chop, Jekyl and Hyde?

    Might Holden be planning a version of one or the other with some Ozzie style input, like they did the Camira? Does anyone know?

  • Cupid Stunt

    Evening Golfie.

    Read a brief test about the Cruze and not a classy car apparently, certainly not in the ethos of the Insignia. He said trying to keep on topic!!

  • Wheelnut

    Mmmm really J&H – The Astra could be dropped from Holdens line up the and the insignia could be built in Adelaide..?

    I’d say the reason is because of the Aussie dollar and Holden believes that ATM it’s too expensive to import cars from Europe.

    Which is why [according to the Rumour mill] Holden are apparently thinking more seriously about buillding cars for “Expensive” Europe here instead of a car that is also being built in “Cheap as” China and Korea

    IMHO building the Insignia here makes much more sense not only because its a much more flexible versatile and practical car [with is FWD/AWD/RWD options] with alot more international appeal and popularity mainly because its an Opel and not a Daewoo design

    Having said that – Holden could build more than the 2 types/model of cars car at Elizabeth… they have more than enough room not to mention one of the most modern flexible and productive facilities in GM

  • Andrew M

    Perhaps they have already sold opel hence withdrawl of astra????
    (just thinking outside the box)

    Ive always thought it was only a matter of time anyway.
    GM have invested so much into the new daewoo facility and have made no secrets that it will be the new global small car division.
    The reason im not surprised it that whay would they invest so much into a new facility and not utilise to the max???

    I dont want to turn this into a slagging on Daewoo fest (thats a different topic)
    but good or poor quality arguments aside, if you thought they were gonna keep opels forever, you just cant read between the lines
    Thats part why they are in trouble, too many double ups going on everywhere

  • Wheelnut

    Andrew M says; Perhaps they have already sold opel hence withdrawl of astra???? (just thinking outside the box)

    That’s a possibility.. Maybe Holden could be gearing up to build the New Commodore; the Insignia [instead of the cruze] and the Astra..

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    Im still not sold on the insignia.

    I dont think its the sort of volume seller that they need like the cruze/astra type will be.

  • Frenchie

    Holdens at Elizabeth will not be building the Cruze or the Astra. It will be something completely different. Whether the Astra is still sold here I’m not sure about that.

  • Wheelnut

    The Insignia would be a better option as Holden could build and export them to help meet demand for it in Europe – instead of relying on one factory; creating a waiting list..
    The other reason is because Holden could transfer the AWD system over to the next generation Commodore; which Holden has indicated could be available in AWD

  • Nate

    It seems the argument goes: Support the aussie auto industry with your tax dollars because it employs fair dinkum aussie cobber true-blue battlers. Even those on the inside are in agreement that Holden, Ford and Toyota (Adelaide) are the biggest work for the dole programs Australia has going. That hardly qualifies it as an ‘industry’. I’d rather the employees work for the dole officially, and have to find work with businesses that run net operating profits.

  • Sean

    Golfie
    It was Mike Simcoe who said the Australian Cruze would be near identical to the rest-of-world version.

    As I mentioned previously, Cruze hatch has been designed here and will be built here. Maybe this is the “different” car we are all speculating about. Maybe it will remain a uniquely Australian product for export across the world; remember that Delta is flexible enough to carry beam and/or independent rear ends and will underpin the Volt, Astra, Cruze, Zafira and Orlando vehicles.

    And this is one big reason why Holden is here to stay. Commodore will remain in the line-up for some years to come, especially with its revised engines and transmissions. Delta – and its derivatives – is being geared up to replace the Commodore as the biggest selling Holden model, NOT the only car Holden will build.

    I for one will remain a champion of Holden and the Australian car building industry. Long may it live.

  • Andrew M

    wheelnut,
    as long as they are standing opel workers, the insignia wont be built here and exported to europe.

  • Wheelnut

    Okay then Andrew.. that means that there is no real point in Ford Australia building the Focus either; given that it’s already being built in Europe.. doesn’t it?

    I’d say one of the reasons Ford is building the Focus here is because ATM its fairly expensive to import cars from Europe. Not only that but The Ozi Focus could possibly be exported to help meet demand back in Europe.
    Which is the same reason why I beleive that Holden should build the Insignia here instead of the Cruze which can be imported from Korea or China for less.

  • Maneesh

    Korea is a RICH COUNTRY. Its labour rates are the same as UK. But they still make Plasma TVs, Ships, Cars, Computer chips etc in Korea. And its population is only 50 million.

    In Japan, the lenses in Panasonic cameras are actually made by a small family in a backyard factory, which they deliver by van to the main Panasonic factory.

    Rudd has to seriously invest in TRAINING and Research, to bring our workforce up to scrach, so we can start making stuff like rich countries do with good wages!

  • the fact

    Holden VE Commodore Omega auto

    Road Test

    RRP: $38,290
    Price as tested: $39,140 (includes: Metallic Paint $500, Full size spare wheel and tyre $350)
    Crash rating: five-star (ANCAP)
    Fuel: 91 RON ULP
    Claimed fuel economy (L/100km): 10.6
    CO2 emissions (g/km): 252
    Also consider: Ford Falcon XT (more here), Toyota Aurion AT-X (more here)

    Overall rating: 2.5/5.0
    Engine/Drivetrain/Chassis: 2.0/5.0
    Price, Packaging and Practicality: 2.5/5.0
    Safety: 3.0/5.0
    Behind the wheel: 2.5/5.0
    X-factor: 2.5/5.0
    About our ratings

    Here’s a very solid car with appealing levels of roominess, practicality, a fantastic chassis and attractive looks — but it’s let down by the engine and transmission.

    It’s amazing that a car with a DOHC V6 can be as noisy from below 5000rpm in this day and age. Nor is it a pleasant engine note, droning like a taxi from low speeds and sounding muscular-but-strained at higher revs. As one of the staffers here at the Carsales Network recalled, this is the engine that forms the basis of much more likeable powerplants in Alfa Romeos and Saabs.

    Holden has recently turned down the power on this engine, reducing the output from 180 to 175kW, in order to reduce the car’s fuel consumption. This particular car on test was the petrol/auto variant, which doesn’t gain as much in terms of improved economy as the dual-fuel Omega. For the week in our hands — and admittedly with very little opportunity for open-road driving — the car averaged a poor 14.1L/100km.

    Overall, the Commodore doesn’t feel subjectively slower than with the earlier engine tune. It’s quite quick, although it doesn’t feel as effortless from low speeds as Ford’s FG Falcon XT.

    A major factor in the Omega’s lack of ease in the driving can be traced back to the four-speed automatic transmission. For lack of ratios — and wrong ratios — plus slow response and clunkiness, this is not one of our favourites.

    The ratios are too high for reasonable straight line performance, a compromise forced on Holden by the lack of at least a fifth ratio. There’s very little in the way of engine braking available and the box will drop into fourth at low speeds on a light throttle, inducing some unpleasant vibration from the engine at a speed barely above 1000rpm.

    It’s also slow to change down manually, but admittedly, hardly any typical owner will ever attempt to do so

    The Omega did muster enough verve to spin a drive wheel on a damp section of road after a light downpour — and the wheelspin didn’t ease up as the speed rose, either. That, however, is probably more a reflection of the tyres’ general lack of grip.

    Fitted with standard 16-inch alloy wheels, the Omega didn’t really benefit from the original equipment Bridgestone Turanza ER300 225/60 R16 tyres. They rode well, which is a plus in a car like this, but they were not supremely silent on country roads and they definitely need more ‘cartilage’ in the sidewalls. Even during gentle cornering the tyres could be felt and heard kneeling over.

    During a downhill dash into a corner with the brakes applied, the otherwise unflappable steering became a little ‘squiffy’, possibly as a consequence of the stability control intervening to check understeer — and we’re inclined to blame the tyres for that.

    Yet, for our criticisms above, the basic sales rep special Omega retains some appeal. When cruising, it’s a relatively quiet car, with just a bit of wind rustle and some low-level rumble from the drivetrain. The tyres are very quiet on freeways, but noisier on coarse bitumen.

    Country reps will appreciate the performance of the headlamps on high beam, but curse the dipped coverage as less than satisfactory. By best guess, they barely illuminate 50m in front of the car and as soon as another car approaches, the driver’s night vision is badly compromised. It’s not as if the lights are set too low, they just plain lack power.

    Handling is very close to neutral and without the stability control’s input there’s little doubt the Omega would let go at the rear, throttle-off — though perhaps not quite as readily as the Falcon, with its simpler cross-blade IRS system. With some throttle applied, the multi-link IRS provides strong roadholding, despite feeling tuned softer than the MacPherson struts at the front.

    It’s the suspension’s very softness in the springs and damping that contribute to what feels like a little float in the rear at higher speeds.

    The Omega’s turn-in is responsive and steering feel is also impressive. Ultimately, the ride and handling are not as finely balanced as in the Falcon XT, but it’s still a very effective car in the twisties — especially for the money!

    It’s more throttle-sensitive than the Falcon too. There seems to be a bit more push exiting a corner under power than we recall for the Ford. Once again, chances are that the Commodore’s basic handling and steering traits are degraded by the tyres.

    We’ve covered the Commodore’s packaging in some detail previously, but we’ll reiterate some points that might have been lost in the mists of time.

    The Commodore is allocated to the Large Car segment in VFACTS and it meets the definition superbly. Legroom is as big as all outdoors and as for headroom, it’s remarkable for a vehicle with a standard roofline.

    In the rear seat, there’s plenty of leg and knee-room for adults. Even with the front seats set as far back as they’ll go (and they don’t need to be that far back for the accommodation of basketballers) there’s still adequate kneeroom in the back for adults and there’s also room under the front seats for rear-seat occupants to place their feet. Only taller adults may find the headlining in the rear is just a bit close to the bonce.

    One of our readers recently observed, with some chagrin, that the VE Commodore’s boot won’t accommodate a boxed 51cm TV. Well, no it won’t — but Holden would probably point out that’s what the Sportwagon’s for… We’ll play the politician and ask the Lion to deliver a split-fold rear seat for the sedan at update time.

    Tellies aside, the boot is not a bad thing as it is… A little shallow, as a consequence of drivetrain components under the floor, but it extends forward a fair way and it’s ‘boxy’ enough with relatively little intrusion from the sides.

    As we’ve often said about VE Commodores in the past, the A-pillars are too thick. Objectively, they’re not way too thick — but enough to detract from the field of vision and affect safety. Driving at night, the offside (right) A-pillar was wide enough to conceal an on-coming car through a right-hand bend until it was within about 150m.

    Another ‘known’ about the VE Commodore is the handbrake, with which we’re gradually coming to grips. In the VE’s latest incarnation, it seems to have come in for some tweaking. No longer does it seem quite as cheap and rattly. It’s still not ergonomically intuitive, but we can see owners quickly getting used to it as it requires less effort to operate these days.

    It’s just struck the reviewer from driving the Commodore that the exterior mirrors fitted are really rather small. They’re delicate and dainty — they basically do the job and are probably aerodynamic to boot — but you’re left wondering whether you’re seeing the full picture to the diagonal rear, although we didn’t experience any problems with blind spots while the Commodore was in our possession.

    There are a couple of points specific to the base-grade Omega: The seats are a little more Euro-flavour than in the Falcon. They’re comfortable enough and hold the occupant quite well, but in the test car the driver’s seat didn’t seem located properly and the reviewer felt like he was sitting slightly at odds with the direction of the seat.

    The steering wheel is a large tiller, but provides a very clear view of instruments. It’s not an especially wonderful thing in a tactile sense, but for an inexpensive large family sedan, that can be forgiven.

    We liked the auto headlights, but felt the lack of an MP3-compatible audio system in the car. Think of a metaphor to describe the transmission selector in the Omega and that would be ‘curate’s egg’. It’s slow, stodgy and long — but it’s in perfect harmony with the transmission itself. The reviewer did eventually adjust to the lever though.

    If there’s one thing that really impresses about the Commodore, it’s the tight-as-a-drum body construction. Combine that with its very safe dynamics (now a five-star car, according to ANCAP), its spaciousness and its value for money, and you have a very strong package — in spite of the mechanicals.

    As mentioned at the beginning of this review, the Omega is a car that is flawed because of its lacklustre engine and transmission combination. There are superseded diesel engines that feel more refined than the Alloytec V6 and surely it’s past time for Holden to upgrade to the five-speed automatic transmission option available in the SV6?almost $40,000 with 4 speed auto?truly dinosaur.how anyone spent $1 billion and produced the crap like this.every tax payers must seek the answers from the dinosaur.

  • Frenchie

    Get a life Fact!

  • eh179driver

    The fact says the VE is a dinasour but yet because of a total lack of imagination (probably caused by a very small brain)he copies and pastes a Carsales roadtest onto the Caradvice blog site despite there being more than one VE 6 cyl roadtest being available on the Caradvice site anyway. All the Carsales report tells us is the the VE is a nice smooth well put together car! The Fact! Well The Fact is, your an idiot!

  • Miniskip

    The Fact claims that the price of an entry level Commodore is up near $40K – which suggests that he doesn’t watch much TV.. Because if he did he would see that you can now get a VE Commodore “International” for $33K [sedan] and $35K [Wagon] with a list of extra features including leather interior.
    Then there’s a VE SV6 Ute for $34K. Not only that but m local Holden dealer is selling VE SS Utes for approx $36K [auto or manual].

    Either that or he simply thinks that the Prices that are listed in the back of Wheels or Motor are fixed – that is what the dealers must sell the cars for which means no bargaining or negotiating…. if that is the case he obviously has never bought a new car before.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    So what’s the response from Holden now GM has dropped the Pontiac????????

  • Wheelnut

    I wouldn’t be surprised if GM-Holden continue to export the VE but instead of wearing Pontiac G8 badges – they stick Chevrolet Impala badges on it.

    Not only because it uses a Chevy engine but because the Zeta platform is a more modern more flexible platform which will improve the Impalas performance and handling.. and the ute could also be sold as an El Camino.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Thanks Wheelnut. I hope Holden stay or top the their PR. They need to keep showing strength.