Push to extend double-demerit point program
March 11, 2009 by Matt Brogan
Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) Ken Lay has proposed re-introducing the double-demerit point program in Victoria next Christmas, claiming it has worked wonders in reducing the road toll in other states.
The statistics behind this move however indicate a possible 63,000 drivers in Victoria with 10 or more demerit points are at risk of losing their licences.
More than 31,000 drivers are on 12-plus demerit points and face immediate suspension with another 9950 are on 11 points, while more than 21,000 have racked up 10.
The figures do not include almost 10,000 suspended drivers who will have carry-over demerit points when they get their licences back.
Drivers who exceed 12 points are given an option of handing over their licence for three months. Those who decide to chance it risk losing their licence for six months for any indiscretions in the following 12 months.
More than 2300 P-platers are on 12 or more points with almost 7000 learners having demerit points.
Mr Lay said double penalty points could help cut the road toll.
“We need to find something that bites,” Mr Lay said. “It’s difficult to say that because it works in New South Wales and Western Australia it will work in Victoria. If we believe it can, we will be going to the government to have this talk.”
A spokesman for Roads Minister Tim Pallas said the State Government was committed to reviewing fines and penalties, but it had not yet considered re-introducing the double-demerit point program.
A final decision will be made within a fortnight.
Source: Herald-Sun
Print it: 
The fact so many people have lost so many points shows indifference to speeding and traffic infringements. It’s high time people learn driving is a privilege, not a right. Perhaps more people need to lose their licences in order to take driving seriously. 12 points is more than enough to compensate for the odd, inattentive drive we are all occasionally guilty of.
Some people should never be licensed. I don’t want to share the road with such recalcitrant individuals.
I understand your sentiment Simon, but heavy enforcement in Australia and around the world has shown it does not reduce the road death toll. Here we have another government who runs away from the obvious fact that better driver training, compulsary retraining and safer roads works much more effectively than draconian laws and penalisation.
I would remind you that AU had a plan called the ‘roads to 2010′ to halve the road toll through the above measures and building better roads. This has been an utter failure and has been swept under the carpet. Proof that double demerits do nothing. A different approach is needed.
Google the Australian Transport Council and see what wonders they have in store for us.
I find it amussing that you have one state talking about doubling the demerit points whilst i’s neighbour is talking about reducing them????
The Demerit point system has flaws Simon, in the fact that there are so many Speed Camera’s that are tuned to click at unreasonable speeds. By that I mean, if you are in a ine of traffic on a ‘perfect’ conditions day on say the Hume Highway, everyone is travelling safely apart and obeying all the laws except they drift to 110km/h (instead of the 100km/h posted) on a double demerit holiday, then some of theose may lose their licence. However the same fixed speed camera doesn’t penalize the fool driving at 100km/h in a torrential downpour when visibilty is reduced to 50 meters and there are flash floods across the road.
When the states start putting more Hi-Vis Patrol cars on the road rather than revenue collectors then you will truly see a genuine reduction in road toll and speedsters, phone talkers, dangerous drivers etc. as all traffic behves itself when in the company of a police car, even Divy vans.
Daytona,
I agree with you.
I’ll never understnd why any State Gov’t refuses to insist on better driver training.
Exactly how would better driver training be a bad thing?
They reckon it makes young drivers over-confident, but if they are going to speed & hoon anyway, at least they’d have some chance of not dying…..
Yes, yes, they shouldn’t speed & hoon, but they do. Even with double demerit points, speed cameras, etc, etc
JasonP, Quite simply, better driver training is not compulsary due to the cost to each state government. It would be a billion dollar investment across the country but if it saves one life, then it is worth it.
It is cheaper to create ‘tough new laws’ like car crushing than it is to implement a costly training course. It is cheaper to build speed camera’s than retraining. It cheaper to rely on car manufacturers to make safer cars, this one factor has saved more lives than any double demerit period has in history.
We dont need another cheap fix.
All good points Daytona, Frontman and JasonP. BUT! Frontman if you go over the speed limit and get a fine, it’s your fault. Period. If someone loses their licence because of this then they have obviously lost points for some infringement already.
I’m no saint, I’ve had fines and lost points but have no one to blame but myself.
The point system is built around the fact people make mistakes, otherwise first breach of road rules and you’d lose your licence. It is also built around the idea that repeat offenders are dangerous. It may not be a perfect system but it’s not a perfect world. If there was no points system, and just a fine, the rich would be encouraged to be reckless. If you have too many points it encourages apathy towards the road rules.
Always remember you and your family share the roads with everyone else. You don’t want anyone dangerous sharing it with you.
Frontman said:
“When the states start putting more Hi-Vis Patrol cars on the road rather than revenue collectors then you will truly see a genuine reduction in road toll and speedsters”
Well said.
Simon,
I am not suggesting the removal of the points system, i tend to agree with you. But how do we make everyone safer? By doubling the penalty? Why dont we have double demerits all the time then if it makes things so much safer. This is funny logic that countries like the UK are moving away from.
I might remind you that if 2 of your passengers fail to buckle up on a 2*Dem weekend in NSW, that is loss of licence. I would lose my job.
The other issue is CORRECT enforcement when the penalty is automated. I seem to remember a datson 120y caught doing an impossible 160km/h in Victoria. If you are going to have a demerit system, you need to have systems that are 100 percent ACCURATE and fair. This is not the case in Australia and we all know of stories of unfair bookings.
When enforcement and penalties moves to revenue raising Simon (350 million BUDGETED in NSW 08/09), you tend to lose sight of the saftey aspects and the relevence goes out the window.
lol you have to be so naive to think they have peoples best interests (safety) in mind when doing these demerit point things.
Its all there to make money.
You would think they make enough money of all the taxes we pay in the first place?
If you want better and safer drivers, punishing them is only half the story. TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING. Perfect practice, makes perfect. And the government are very keen to ignore the fact that driver training, should be compulsory.
Old people should be tested at a certain age to see if they are fit to drive too.
They need to stop singling out young people and P platers, because they arnt the only ones on the road that make mistakes or act stupid at the wheel.
The Government just goes after easy targets. its sad.
Couldn’t agree more with the comments above. To get a motorbike licence in Victoria, I think it is compulsory to do rider training of some sort. To get a car licence you just need to do certain amount of hours being taught by someone sle who has no idea.
I would like to see people who sit in the outside lanes of multi lane roads 10 – 20 k’s under the speed limit punished as well. The people who refuse to move out of the outside lane when not overtaking and going well under the speed limit are more of a road hazard than someone going 5k’s over the speed limit.
Well put Daytona & Simon.
Interestingly, I’ve read where NSW are testing GPS monitored speed restrictors, where the car simply cannot exceed the speed limit, & the GPS keeps track of you everywhere.
If that is brought in, then no-one could possibly exceed the speed limit, (unless the Gov’t equipment is faulty), & there would be zero speeding fines.
How would they make up the lost revenue?
And surely, there would be no speed related deaths whatsoever…. :-)
I agree that if you speed & get caught it is your fault. But in traffic engineering it is a well known fact (no I am not an engineer, but have read enough about the subject to realise when a point is common) that general traffic will find a safe speed for any given road.
Simply put general traffic in perfect conditions will tend to drive a road above the posted limit (safely) however the same traffic in inclement conditions will drive slower than the limit.
The problem with double demerits at times such as holidays is that those people who only do highway driving at these times become distracted by the constant need to adjust their speed. For these people, any further distractions / nervousness is only creating higher risk. I realise that this seems far fetched but there is a lot of studies that have gone into this subject. Remember that these are also the people that drive into the CBD for Xmas shopping, only to then try to figure out where they are going to park, chop lanes at the last instance and cut you off. Not genuine speedsters, just commuters who see a car as a way of saving shoe leather.
He looks like a smiling idiot, and probably is.
Hey Lay, how about as an advice to State Government you suggest introding a serious training requirements before licence is issued to drivers. You open your mouth and just speak of penalising people. No wonder there is no progresss in lowering the road toll. 95% of imporve,ment in road toll can be attirbuted to improvements in vehicle design, with airbags, crumple zones, ESP, ABS, better tyres, better suspension etc.
ALL of the suggestions to state pollies come from the cops, and it is in cops interest to pursue the penalties and other cop jobs, while training and road improvements never get the mention, or no serious mention. Cops have blood on their hands too since their approach to safer roads is quite idiotic, and simplistic – slap more speed cameras and she’ll be alrite. I understand that otherwise cops won’t have a job to do, but I’m just being logical. You can’t just have people with a cop agenda suggesting how to make our roads safer.
Hey, everyone saw the stupid wipe-off 5 add on TV, stating that if the dude was going 60 instead of 65 the chick that stepped in front of his car would have been fine. What a load of junk. What happened with swerwing to avoid the stupid broad, or what happened with TV ads actually warning idiots to stop stepping on the road without looking. Makes me sick. Roads are for driving, footpaths for walking, bike tracks for riding. How about there is a serious attempt to stop drunk and lost idiots walking on the road and getting cleaned up by law obiding drivers. How will the double demerit points stop a drunk pedestrain idiot stepping in front of the car that is doing everything as per the book. How will the double demerit point stop a lost idiot not paying any attention from being cleaned up by a car driver that is doing everything as per the book. Stupid approach Lay man, try addressing all issues in for example a pedestrian being runned over type accident, don’t just look at demerit point for the drivers.
We all know that pedestrian deaths are a substantial addition to the road toll numbers in Oz.
Those TV AD’s saying if you do 60 instead of 65 also dont take into account that newer cars have MUCH better braking systems and tyres, that can pull a car to a halt ALOT quicker then your 15 year old commodadore and falcon.
Those stats would be done on the worst car possible.
I know they need to put a standard speed limit on all people and all cars, but they need to also understand that new cars have the ability to come to a stand still very very quickly, and dont take 50M to come to a halt from 60km.
Victoria is a state that fines people to revenue raise and nothing else. Make no mistake about it. This will be yet another disgraceful decision from the labour govt, as someone who is on the roads 12 hours a day i see how bad people are now driving to avoid being booked. The average speed in the right hand lane of a freeway would be about 87 km an hour thanks to these dipshits.
“but heavy enforcement in Australia and around the world has shown it does not reduce the road death toll.”
enuf said
x2
Doesnt help when pedestrian fatalities are included in the road figures. People who are half cut staggering on the road wearing dark clohes getting creamed by drivers is hardly the drivers fault.
Lay is always the first to comment on road deaths calling drivers idiots etc….but seems to be ery silent when there has been police deaths or accidents where the police have been at fault.
No!..no!…no!double demerit points isn’t the answer.What police need to do is to apply to the Victorian Government to give them powers to torture people that loose all their demerit point.
Strip offenders naked,tie them to a chair,place electrical conductors,run painful electrical currents on sensitive parts of their body.
The effort put into finding punitive measures against drivers by the Police(Vic)is quite extraordinary,bordering on obsessive!
The time will come if a cop sees you coughing while driving,it will constituent dangerous driving!
I agree with Captain Mainwaring’s assessment of Ken(needs a)Lay.