GM Holden boss: ‘inevitable’ job losses ‘keep me awake’ | Car Advice

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GM Holden boss: ‘inevitable’ job losses ‘keep me awake’

By David Twomey |

The current economic climate, across the world and in Australia, would “inevitably” lead to job losses in the Australian car industry, something that “kept him awake at night”, the managing director of GM Holden, Mark Reuss, has told a conference in Melbourne.

Mr Reuss, speaking to the National Fleet Conference, said “at Holden, we’re looking at every piece of our business and how it fits into the Holden of tomorrow.”

He said that in the short term that meant making tough decisions in the coming weeks and months and that inevitably that environment would result in job losses across the industry.

Mr Reuss said; “That’s incredibly difficult for everyone involved and it’s a situation we’re treating with the utmost care and respect.

“Job losses, whether they’re voluntary or involuntary redundancies are personal tragedies for those affected and as a managing director it’s a situation that keeps you awake at night.”

2008 Australian International Motor Show

In the clearest signs to date of what the future holds, not just for GM Holden, Mr Reuss said; “I wish we could carry the entire workforce through this period, but unfortunately these decisions will be necessary for our industry to overcome difficult times and be successful in the future.”

GM Holden - Elizabeth, S.A.

“We’re operating in a climate where local car sales are dropping on average by 20 per cent a month, while in Europe and the US the markets have been down by as much as 50 per cent. By any measure these are extraordinary numbers.”

On a positive note Mr Reuss said the future was about reinvention.

“We can get through this, and we can emerge stronger than we have been before, but to do that we have to take a realistic view of the world.

Holden WM Manufacturing - Body Shop, Elizabeth S.A.

“We need to approach these challenging times to structure the industry in a way that is sustainable.”

He also praised the Australian workforce saying; “In the 12 months that I’ve been here, I’ve come to understand and appreciate just what makes this country great and the importance of local industry.”

“When times are tough, it’s easy for many people to forget the things that have made this industry what it is. The talent and capability in Australia is enormous.”

Mr Reuss added that companies that make the most realistic market assessments and structure themselves accordingly have a great chance of success when industry growth resumes.

GM Holden's small car conceptual design

He said that the key to success would be innovation and an eye for using less foreign oil, either by increasing efficiency or replacing it altogether with Australian energy alternatives.

That meant developing more alternative fuel and fuel saving technologies than any other time in our history, adding that there were many solutions to that challenge, not one easy fix.

He added that this meant improving the efficiency of the internal combustion engine, while at the same time developing other fuel strategies such as hybrid and electric power.

Holden VE Omega Sportwagon 2008

Mr Reuss also praised the Federal Government’s New Car Plan and the support given by governments in Victoria and South Australia and added that this recognised the fact that the automotive industry in Australia played an important role, supporting 64,000 families through $5 billion in annual wages.

Acknowledging his audience, which he said represented about 60 per cent of sales, he said it was important that the government had offered business a tax incentive that allowed 30 per cent deductibility for any new cars purchased for business use before June 30.


 
  • JEKYL & HYDE

    sound’s like cruze can’t come soon enough…

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    K Rudd needs to get in front of this crisis before it can advance further. Take note from the Europeans and implement the scrappage program now. Before more Australians loose jobs.

  • Geni

    The problem with the scrapping program is that it’ll cause a big glut of purchases now, at the cost of future purchases, meaning all you are doing is delaying the hurt a further 5 years. Sure, we might not be in a recession then, but it’ll still disrupt the normal upgrade cycle that is the basis for steady demand.

    Plus it’ll cost the government a stack of money it doesn’t have at the moment.

  • G6ETURBO

    What ever incentives Rudd gives, should be conditioned to buying australian made cars only.

  • Richo

    at least he understands the full impact of job losses on people so hopefully will fight a bit harder then some other company CEO’s around who don’t really care about that, but listen the economy is in bad shape, we are seeing this all around the world, even strong car companies like Toyota who are commonly accepted as the strongest in the world is struggling with this and has lost jobs, i guess it was only inevitable that Holden will suffer too particularly given the state of GM globally

  • CapnCrunch

    When he says they can get back to “being successful in the future” I assume he actually meant to say “continue relying on government handouts to support our otherwise non-sustainable business model”??

  • Richo

    CapnCrunch – harsh considering Holden has been making the most popular car in Australia for the last decade and only a few years ago was nearly matching and in some cases matching Toyota for the most sales in total

  • Richo

    *in some cases beating is what i meant

  • Dan

    Richo, the fact that they’re selling heaps of cars is not that comforting if they are losing money, and cannot survive on their own. I wish I could go into business with an unsustainable business model, and get the taxpayers to cover my losses.

  • John

    So what would be the MAIN reason Holden is loosing so much or not making enough money? Fair enough “economic crisis” blah blah blah, or is it no one is buy there cars?

  • Bret

    John (& Dan)
    Holden’s manufacturing and retail operations ARE profitable, Just like Ford’s are. However R&D costs hurt the bottom line badly. Toyota Aus doesn’t have the same issue as minimal R&D for products sold locally is done locally.

  • FEAD_hearts_HVAC

    John, I think you may want to pull your head out of the ground and open your eyes to what has been going on in the past 12-18 months. People are not buying cars mainly BECAUSE of the economic/global financial crisis. It is not because people simply don’t “like” a Holden and go off to purchase a Toyota because they “like” them more.

    Before the U.S went into recession, when everything was upbeat and the economy was hunky dory consumers where buying big SUVs and 4WD from Ford, GM etc. During the past year or so we have had this “economic crisis” and the first things consumers stop buying are household goods such as fridges etc and cars. For a period high fuel prices were a deciding factor but as it stands now, oil prices are relatively low compared to the highs of last year, yet we continue to hear news of car companies laying off workers and reporting huge sales declines.

    So yea, maybe small chance all this doom and gloom in the auto industry is down to the financial crisis?

  • Dan

    Bret – “Holden’s manufacturing and retail operations ARE profitable, Just like Ford’s are. However R&D costs hurt the bottom line badly. Toyota Aus doesn’t have the same issue as minimal R&D for products sold locally is done locally. ”

    Agreed. Most of the other manufacturer’s R&D is done offshore, and is used in many more markets. The problem with our local boys is that we sell a product only destined for our local market. Had they been able to sell their commodore in significant enough volumes overseas, they would have recovered their R&D costs much easier.

    However stating that their operation is profitable, and that R&D cost is the cause of their losses is kind of misleading, becasue R&D costs should be considered as part of the operation. How else are you going to create the car in the first place, if you have not developed it? Their sales should cover the actual direct cost of physically producing the car, but also the indirect cost of R&D and design of the car. They’re obviously not doing it, even despite the generous tax break for R&D that Holden receives every year.

  • Bret

    Dan,
    Each new model produces an R&D spike, which gives losses in certain years and profits in others.
    If you add up GMH’s balance sheets over the past they ARE profitable.

  • Dan

    This really depends on the accounting standards and treatment. R&D costs rarely ever hit the bottom line straight away. They are rather capitalised and amortised over a period of time, usually equally throughout the life of the product being sold. Hence R&D has no effect on the ‘spike’ of profits/losses in itself.

  • Phil C.

    Scrappage program would be good for Australia as long as it was limited to the purchase of new Australian made cars.

    Why give a tax break to help increase the current account deficit?

    My previous car, an old 1992 2L Pulsar (last of the Australian models) used as much fuel as a new Falcon averages (10.2L/100km) and I would’ve seriously considered upgrading to a new XR6.

    Makes me wonder if I could buy the old dunger Subie (currently for sale next door) for chips, sell my XR6 privately and get a new FG for only $15-20k changeover…

  • realcars

    Obviously in an economic downturn sales are going to fall and all car companies are going to take that much longer to recoup the development costs over the model run due to the lower volumes.

    GMH is not the only company caught short by the current economic down turn.

    As to the comment that people are buying Toyotas in preference to Holdens well Holden must be doing something
    right with Commodore the largest selling single model.

    Lets hope Holden continues as we need a Manufacturing Industry in Australia despite what some may think.

  • Andrew M

    As G6ETurbo mentions any incentive should be conditioned to buying aussie made cars.

    Couldnt believe it when it was announced that the 30% tax cut for businesses applied to buying any vehicle.

    Im sure the japanese government wouldnt give incentives to buying aussie vehicles

  • realcars

    More detail on the tax cut to business Andrew M?

  • Dan

    I posted in the other article that the govt has announced what they called the ‘Investment Allowance’ back in december, where essentially you obtain further depreciation on any depreciable assets you purchase before certain time. Plenty of it on the treasury and ATO site.

  • Andrew M

    Realcars, this is a link to the story run on CA, but yes, as Dan says you will find it in depth at the ATO site

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/21870/car-industry-looks-to-interest-rate-cuts-for-relief/

  • Frenchie

    Maybe Holdens are waiting for domestic sales to pickup from this incentive scheme before they announce layoffs.

    Something has to give with under 4000 cars (commodores,statesmen and caprices) sold last month, the Holden plant produces up to 12000 vehicles per month.
    Half of these are for export (Middle East and North America). The export market has dried up leaving Holdens with large overheads.

    With 11 working days in March the Elizabeth plant will produce aprroximately 6500 vehicles. Assumming March sales (domestic) are as good February, and Middle East picks up alittle there will be a small surplus of vehicles.

    But having the double amount of work force producing half the amount of cars is not sustainable, and I think a shift (1500 jobs) will go in May/June.

  • Cupid Stunt

    Just announced today Toyota’s manufacturing bases in the UK have agreed with the Unions to pass on a 10% wages cut to employees in return for 2 extra days of per month.
    “Oh What a Feeling” knowing the boss is probably keeping his salary the same plus getting a bonus!

  • CB

    G6ETURBO Says:
    March 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
    “What ever incentives Rudd gives, should be conditioned to buying australian made cars only.”

    And what about the thousands of workers employed by companies and affiliates of the Hondas, Audis, BMWs, etc. And did you consider the need for imported 4WDs in the country, those buyer’s need incentives too – I don’t count Ford Territories because they don’t do the job in the bush.

    Dan Says:
    March 11th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
    “Richo, the fact that they’re selling heaps of cars is not that comforting if they are losing money, and cannot survive on their own. I wish I could go into business with an unsustainable business model, and get the taxpayers to cover my losses.”

    Agreed. If I preented Holden’s business model in my MBA I’d be laughed out of university.

    Bret Says:
    March 11th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
    “John (& Dan)
    Holden’s manufacturing and retail operations ARE profitable, Just like Ford’s are. However R&D costs hurt the bottom line badly. Toyota Aus doesn’t have the same issue as minimal R&D for products sold locally is done locally.”

    Your definition of profit obviously differs to that quoted in Accounting 101. I thought Holden lost money last year. And the year before that.

    There are numerous companies in Australia (e.g. certain software developers) that run profitably with proportionally significantly more expediture on R&D and have to compete on the global scale without tax payer assistance. There is no excuse for Holden.

  • Bret

    CB, don’t try to look smart because it aint workin.
    Holdens P/L over the last decade comes out very much an overall profit. Just ’cause your’e just out of pre-school doesn’t mean you can’t look at the longer term picture.

  • Dan

    I agree with CB. Good points.

  • HAL

    ^ but Bret, that doesn’t make sense? I can’t see how you can say that Holden’s business model is sustainable, simply because the bottom line of the P&L over a period of a decade is in the positive? Companies operate on a financial year basis, not on a financial decade. So if Holden made enormous profits in 2001, sizeable enough to absorb losses for the next 7 years, then that is OK?

    I think CB comments made sense (although he could have made his point to you a little more politely).

  • Andrew M

    HAL,
    Bret has painted a true picture.

    This differs from traditional retail in such a way as they develop the product themselves.

    Its not buying beans for $1 and selling them for $2.

    everytime a manufacturer creates a new vehicle or even updates one, the costs to implement such changes is quite expensive.
    Perhaps business cycles isnt covered in business 101 and thats why CB cant see it as a reasonable cause.

    So if you are to only look at one years books, would you buy a business based on that????
    If I was going to buy an established business i would look at at least 5 years worth of figures. I would take the figures and highlight the areas where i saw a spike in profit or loss and want to find out what the trigger was.

    If i could see a refurbishment was done this year and hence put them into a loss, would i shrug my shoulders and instantly walk away???

    CB,
    wouldnt you agree that the stimulus should be aimed at where it will benefit the most???
    Hence aussie made vehicles.

    How many jobs are attached to a Commodore versus a Honda???

  • Bret

    Hal, Holden/Ford Aus have operate on finance cycles way in excess of a single financial year. Because basically we operate with a single model development cycles are directly reflected in the P/L. Many companies will operate at a loss for the years that they bring new or updated products to market.
    BTW I don’t believe that longer term, the business case for totally unique regional models stacks up any more.

  • Dan

    Andrew M. Accoutning standards dictate that product development costs, like R&D and design should be capitalised and then slowly expensed over time, usually life of the product. Yes, those costs may be expensive, but they don’t all hit the P&L in the first year. They usually affect the P&L smoothly over a period of time.

    Granted, you look at the last few years of profits when buying a business. THe point is though, and you have brushed on it, if they made good profits many years ago, but have been steadily losing money for the last few years, then there is a problem isn’t there. Product development costs don’t actually affect it one bit (unless they all of a sudden discontinue a model early and write the cost off).

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    but the thing is though , I dont believe they do write it off over the life of the product in the auto world.

    fair enough for eg I have to write my car off equally for a number of years (well its not really equally as the first couple of years take a large blow of it), but im pretty sure concessions exist where these guys can do it a little quicker.

    I suppose they could adopt the system toyota uses in transferring profits to another countrys books where they pay less tax…
    that would go a long way
    (and dont fire up, just a light dig)

  • Dan

    “but im pretty sure concessions exist where these guys can do it a little quicker”

    We’re talking about accounting standards, not tax treatment. You’ll find accounts and tax treatment often differ to a large extent, even where one can show profit, and one loss.

    “I suppose they could adopt the system toyota uses in transferring profits to another countrys books where they pay less tax…”

    As long as it does not breach transfer pricing rules, and everyting is at arms length, then there is no problem. Also, you’ll find same thing happens with Holden. It’s part of a US company called GM remember? V8 engines come from there. Both Toyota and Holden do the same in that regard :)

  • CB

    Bret Says:
    March 12th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
    “CB, don’t try to look smart because it aint workin.
    Holdens P/L over the last decade comes out very much an overall profit. Just ’cause your’e just out of pre-school doesn’t mean you can’t look at the longer term picture.”

    I didn’t expect to get a constructive response – thanks for proving me right.

    Perhaps you could provide the profit-loss figures for the last five years so we can judge…?

    Andrew M Says:
    March 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    “CB,
    wouldnt you agree that the stimulus should be aimed at where it will benefit the most???
    Hence aussie made vehicles.
    How many jobs are attached to a Commodore versus a Honda???”

    Fair point, thought I think you’ll find the numbers of Aussies working directly or indirectly for the importers is significant.

    Compare Holden + Ford + Toyota VS the rest – the numbers would be closer than you think.

    Plus the business that’s been making the money for Australia over the past eight years has been resources – and what do they predominantly use? Imported vehicles. If you’re going to provide an incentive you need to provide it to the companies making you the most money in difficult circumstances.

    Bret Says:
    March 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
    “Hal, Holden/Ford Aus have operate on finance cycles way in excess of a single financial year. Because basically we operate with a single model development cycles are directly reflected in the P/L. Many companies will operate at a loss for the years that they bring new or updated products to market.”

    There are car makers that have been turning profit even when developing new products – so like I said it’s no excuse.

    Andrew M Says:
    March 12th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    “I suppose they could adopt the system toyota uses in transferring profits to another countrys books where they pay less tax…
    that would go a long way
    (and dont fire up, just a light dig)”

    I agree – however if Holden has been doing this and the books are still negative, then they’ve got a serious problem!

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    We are talking about the whole kit and kaboodle.
    As a whole it can be explained as to why a cycle over years displays profits and losses and doesnt always mean they are heading for the wreckers.

    CB……..

    “Fair point, thought I think you’ll find the numbers of Aussies working directly or indirectly for the importers is significant.”

    Perhaps you can show employment numbers so we can judge

    and just to note again the toyota shifting profits was just a light dig at when they got caught out doing it in an illegal fashion

  • Frenchie

    CB
    CA have got the profit/loss for last 5 years.

    Read this:

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/3250/

    Holden loss only 6 million for 2007. Mostly due to restucturing cost (77.5 million). The company made a pre-tax profit of 27.5 million dollars.

  • Dan

    LOL! You’ll find most if not all global companies breach transfer pricing rules to an extent. Problem is that it is often difficult to prove it, if you make the structure complicated enough. That was an interesting topic I did in my masters of tax law :)

  • Bret

    CB Says:
    March 12th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    CB Thanks for providing nothing in your responce. Obviosly you can’t understand and we’ll need to hold you hand.

    In just ONE source Car Advice says:
    “All is not bad however, the profit/loss life cycle is a common occurrence when a new Falcon or Commodore is introduced.

    2006 – $146 million loss
    2005 – $144 million loss
    2004 – $300.8 million profit
    2003 – $285.6 million profit
    2002 – 256.5 million profit”
    There are plenty of other sources that show the P/L cycles aligned with major model releases for the 2 Australian Designers/Manufacturers.

    CB: “There are car makers that have been turning profit even when developing new products – so like I said it’s no excuse.”

    Where else do they run a single locally developed car at contiual profits?
    Perhaps YOU could provide the evidence so we can judge…?

    I’m sorry but your personal bias doesn’t change the reality.

  • Andrew M

    Dan, well perhaps toyota didnt have that good of brains looking after the coin if they got caught ha ha ha ha

    once again though, it was just a light dig, no need to get defensive on it

    Once again I am 100% with what Bret is saying in relation to the obvious recurring P and L cycle being blamed on development

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    I also got told when i did my business course that the best accountants dont work for the tax office.

    Read into that what you like ha ha ha ha ha

  • Dan

    LOL! Fully agree with you there Andrew!! :) Govt job, it’s easy mate! haha.

    Having said that, the top ones there do get snapped up from private enterprise. I know of a few ex PwC and KPMG staff who went off to work for the ATO. Having said that, majority there are clueless ;p

  • Dan

    “There are plenty of other sources that show the P/L cycles aligned with major model releases for the 2 Australian Designers/Manufacturers”

    That’s not to say it’s becasue of development costs. When new models are released, sales spike, so there’s more profit. Towards the end of the model’s life, sales drop, so there’s less profit or even loss. Development costs have got nothing to do with it. I’ll repeat myself again, they are capitalised and steadily written off over the lifetime of the model. Geez.

  • Andrew M

    Dan,
    as i said earlier, these sort of companies dont write of the development costs like you and i would a car, but even if they did the first couple of years would noticbly take a heavier showing anyway.

    And also your theory isnt totally correct because development for the new model occurs before the model comes out (obviously). not only are sales slower at the end of the models life, but that also times with the full force of the next models development costs

  • CB

    Bret Says:
    March 13th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
    “Where else do they run a single locally developed car at contiual profits?
    I’m sorry but your personal bias doesn’t change the reality.”

    What about 2007? And 2008? If they were loss making years that makes abysmal reading.

    I don’t have exact handout figures only what’s quoted in major websites and newspapers, but the figures quoted are frequently over one billion dollars – so the returns above are ridiculously poor.

  • Andrew M

    CB,
    you either deliberatly diverted from brets question or didnt comprehend what he was asking

  • Dan

    Andrew M said – “And also your theory isnt totally correct because development for the new model occurs before the model comes out (obviously). not only are sales slower at the end of the models life, but that also times with the full force of the next models development costs”

    Andrew, you didn’t comprehend what I was saying. It is not a ‘theory’. Accounitng standards in manufacturing industry (or any ohter industry for that matter) are clear. ANy development costs for a product not yet released, are CAPITALISED. That means they do not affect profit and loss figures when they are initially paid. Once product is released ot the market, it is written off usually equally over a period of time. If there’s any spike due to development costs, it would be for the previous model, if there’s any costs left over in the balance sheet for a discontinued product. Nothing to do with new development costs. What is so difficult to understand?

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says; “I wish I could go into business with an unsustainable business model, and get the taxpayers to cover my losses.”

    Dan; the difference is that Holden employs close to 2000 workers at the factory in Elizabeth and the Head Office Design Studio and Engine Company in Port Melbourne.

    If Holden went under it wouldn’t just mean the loss of at Holden but 1;000′s more jobs in non related industries such as finance; housing; construction; transport; retail; hospitality & tourism etc

    Whereas if you went into business made onsecutive “losses” an a-sole trader such as yourself wouldn’t have as great an impact on the economy if you were to close.

  • The Realist

    Andrew M Says:
    March 15th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
    “CB,
    you either deliberatly diverted from brets question or didnt comprehend what he was asking”

    Which question was that? The one about the “single locally developed car at contiual profits?” What continual profits? All I can see is four years of losses. And before that a few years of profits, but that’s pretty poor considering the billions in handouts.

    It seems Holden is one of the only manufacturers on the planet foolish enough to spend so much money developing a car for such a small market.

    People like Bret and yourself have no idea of how to run a business – the continual moaning about workers losing their jobs etc is hyberbole that covers up the fact that the business model is poor, and the return on tax payer investment will never good.

  • CB

    The Realist Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 9:32 am
    “It seems Holden is one of the only manufacturers on the planet foolish enough to spend so much money developing a car for such a small market.”

    They do export, though every US venture has been poor. Wheelnut will say exports have been a huge success – so I’d question why there’s been four years of losses?

    “People like Bret and yourself have no idea of how to run a business – the continual moaning about workers losing their jobs etc is hyberbole that covers up the fact that the business model is poor, and the return on tax payer investment will never good.”

    Bret and Wheelnut are avid Holden lovers, which means they believe Holden’s business model is better than Microsoft’s.

    And Andrew M – well, what can I say, this guy drives a fluro coloured FG Falcon and couldn’t answer why the G6E Turbo was so cheaply appointed compared to cars costing $20K less!

  • Dan

    Yeah you’re right Wheelnut. Hence my business plan would be to employ thousands of employees also for my sole trader business, where I know I would lose money, and ask the govt to prop me up so that those thousands don’t lose their jobs. I think we’re onto some brilliant taxpayer con here guys! :)

    The amount of money govt gives them, might as well pay these employees unemployment benefits…

  • Tomas79

    You’re right Dan.
    I too will hire up 2000 Bums, and get the government to give me a billion dollar contribution , otherwise i will have to let them all go!!

  • Tomas79

    With all these taxpayer funding of foreign owned companies, the government should write in a claus as part of the the assistance package! Stating that from now on, any australian taxpayer should be able to get a brand new commodore, for a round 10K!!

  • Dan

    Tomas, you can easily get a 1-2 year old Commodore for that much now anyway, thanks to their shocking depreciation. But yes, brand new is better than a falling apart 2 year old… ;)

  • Tomas79

    Hehehe So True Dan,
    Unfortunately at the moment the aussie taxpayer pays for it, and only yanks get the g8 with a huge discount!!
    And regardless of what wheelnut says about yanks raving about the G8, sales figures prove, they just aren’t interested!!
    And if a miracle was to happen, and holden was to actually make a profit, only the U.S owner GM would benefit it!!

    I say, let Holden fall!! It is the only viable thing to do in the long run!!
    I’m sure most of the workforce will find jobs at toyota and ford, as they expand to cater for rise in demand for fleets (as caused the demise of commodore)!!

  • Dan

    That’s a fair point. If Holden was to call it quits. All the commodores sales, would be replaced by more falcons, aurions and so on. So effectively ford and toyota would have to work overtime to fill in the gap, perhaps employing the sacked holden workers (and toyota teaching them about quality as at the same time). Any third party suppliers (given that they are all shared among the three) while they would obviously lose the revenue from Holden, would be compensated by Ford’s and Toyota’s business anyway. So all in all, it wouldn’t be the biggest tragedy if Holden was to fail actually. And given the taxpayer assistance they are getting already, pay that to Centelink instead and you will cover the remaming left over unemployed workforce. And Bob’s your uncle! :-)

  • Bret

    CB, actually I hate Holden and GM in general. It’s just that I hate the B/S that some idiots want to pass of as facts more! But do I want holden to close, no way because it will be the end of Australian auto manufacturing, and I have plenty of friends who work there.

  • Tomas79

    Yeah Dan, so true!!
    Too bad most of the people loudly voicing their opinion on here never studied economic fundamentals in High School, let alone uni!!

    Dan Says: “and toyota teaching them about quality as at the same time”

    Hehehehe, I’m sure the ex-holden employees will gladly take to using Toyota’s sheet metal stamping technology, a step up from Holden’s method of head butting sheet metal into form!! :-)