Daimler & BMW discuss cross ownership
March 9, 2009 by Alborz Fallah
Rivals Daimler and BMW are in talks to begin a joint-ownership structure to increase cooperation between the two German manufacturers, a report in the German magazine Der Spiegel said yesterday.
The report indicates that each company would take a seven per cent stake in the other, however BMW’s major shareholder, the Quandt family (who own 46 per cent of BMW), strongly oppose cross-ownership.
The Quandts are afraid that Daimler will ultimately attempt to take over BMW, similar to events that took place in 1998 when Daimler-Benz took majority control of Chrysler despite initially entering the joint-ownership on a “merger of equals” understanding.
Of course given the strict German laws, it would be interesting to see if the German government would allow even such a small cross-ownership, let alone a take over.
The first part of the plan includes cooperation for joint purchasing of components which could potentially save the two companies billions of euros in the future.
Talks of closer ties and mutually beneficial cooperation between the traditional-rivals comes amid a steep decline in luxury car sales.
Print it: 
I’m with the Quandts – BMW don’t need “help”
NO NO NO
i would rather see both go broke than this
That would be a sad day if these 2 “merged”.
Long as it’s only component sharing, and not designs or panels…eeew. Imagine Mercedes-Benz losing their elegant, classic lines to become a Barvarian Fashion Statement.
If it means saving these two marques, then do it.. I’d perfer a little under-the-skin component sharing than losing these great German luxury / sport cars, but I don’t think it’ll come to that.
I would like to see both of them operate as separate identities but sharing the cost of some components and maybe even the prospect of new developments together a positive one if it means keeping them both alive.
Is this suggested venture a result of the current financial
situation (hate the word crisis)or an attempt to gain some economies of scale in relation to development costs etc?
The last thing Merc needs is to be ‘bangled’ as well. Keep them seperate I say. What stops them from buying the same components now? Do a one big bulk order and get a bulk discount, or whatever it is they’re after.
Realcars BMW and Merc have been in talks for years .Here is some info I have been reading on the talks.
“”Germany’s two biggest luxury automakers are not merging operations. Instead, Daimler AG and Bayerische Motoren Werke (BMW) have reached an agreement where the two companies will begin sharing some components in a bid to collectively reduce their costs.
Specifically, the automakers will take advantage of their respective economies of scale and use their collective might to purchase car parts in greater numbers and for less cost per part. Parts including brake components, certain cabin materials, and possibly the sharing of safety components could be included in this deal.
BMW Engines, Gearboxes To Mercedes?
BMW has even discussed selling engines and gearboxes to Mercedes which would be a highly unusual agreement, given that these two components are often what distinguishes the German models the most. However, the current economic climate around the world is pretty dismal, making such a deal advantageous to all sides. The only concern would be consumers – how would they view two similar models which aren’t all that different under the hood?
One engine being considered by BMW to supply to Mercedes is its new V12 powerplant which it plans to unveil in 2009 for use in the 7-series and in a new ‘baby’ Rolls-Royce sedan. Based on an extended version of BMW’s new turbocharged 4.0L V8, the new engine might be useful for Mercedes in both the S-class as well as in the Maybach (Mercedes’ ultra-luxury brand). No transmissions have been identified with this agreement, but the possibility of one or more gearboxes being shared is strong.
Who Else Has BMW Been In Talks With?
BMW has hinted that Mercedes isn’t the only automaker interested in company technology. Aston Martin has expressed interest in hammering out a deal with the German automaker and one American manufacturer has expressed interest in BMW diesel technology. Likely, that company is General Motors who is looking to expand the Cadillac CTS line up to include at least one diesel powerplant that is ready for the US market.
Besides BMW and Mercedes, other automakers are cutting deals in a bid to save money. Most notably are Nissan and Chrysler, Ford and General Motors, a number of Japanese brands with each other, and Chrysler and Volkswagen. Whether these arrangements will diminish the independence of any automaker remains to be seen, but the savings that can be realized may be something too good for any of them to pass up.”" This was reported back in Oct 2008 .
Dan if you knew anything about BMW you would know Bangle has left……
Dont start another argument!
what… i reckon it’d be cool if they worked together to make a kick ass car.
That makes snese then.
“Dan if you knew anything about BMW you would know Bangle has left……”
I know Bangle has left, good riddance too. Regardless if he left or not, I still wouldn’t like merc bangled. It’s not an argument, but a statement. You don’t like it, don’t argue against it pumpkin.
Would you really buy a BMW knowing the technology is the same with a Merc badge? Yes times are tough and sharing technology is a cost effective way to reduce expense but i agree with the Quandt family. How much would it cost to buy 7% of BMW and Daimler? Is it like a straight swap?
My Jackaroo has an Auto Transmission the same as was used in BMWs some years ago.
Don’t believe it – look it up. GM 4L30-E 4 speed
There’s far more sharing of components than most people know.
How can Merc be Bangled if hes left……………???????*shakes head*
I dont think it will happen Salesman they have been talking about it for years………….Merc have been ahead with new safety developments for years I think and seems most car manufactures adopt them later so why not join teams to form new technology together and pass it on to the consumer sooner in both cars.Makes no sense both companies spending money on development for the same thing,such as hybrids…………..Then again we dont want them becoming the same car underneath the shell and Badge now do we……….
Merc will be the winner with the BMW engines ;)
I can see the benefits,but it’s still a little hard to stomach and I don’t want to see the “same car underneath the shell and badge”.
I wouldn’t want to see Honda “merging” with toyota!Not that would happen because their hatred of one another is deep-rooted in their history.
You are right Reckless1.
I suppose the idea of this type of co-ownership is to ensure that both parties remain committed to what was agreed to at the outset?
I mean if both parties agree to co purchase 100,000 gearboxes to the same specification from the same supplier in a single order or contract then either party are less likely to forfiet or renig on such arrangements if each company has a vested financial interest in the other.
BM, how can Mercedes benefit from BMW gearboxes? It was my understanding that BMW is already outsourcing these from ZF and other places, no?
As far as them benefitting from BMW engines, as a generalization I think Mercs are heavier cars, so moving to BMW engines wouldn’t be such a good idea as BMW engines rev better and are generally tuned for horsepower over torque. I’ll take a torquier engine in a fatter car thanks :)
Im very interested in your V12 comment though, as Mercedes currently has a DOHC 6.0 naturally aspirated 12 banger they are supplying to Pagani which in the R version is cranking out 750 horse (naturally lacking typical in emissions control). Surely detuning this would be more than suitable, not to mention introducing it to consumer models would dramatically bring manufacturing costs down…..
Either way the future is looking interesting and I don’t exactly have a crystal ball so we’ll just have to wait and see.
Devil I never said Merc would benefit from BMWs gearboxes . I know BM out source them,
I think BMWs new twin turboed engines have plenty of torque Devil……… So I think Merc would have no problem with them . Sure you wouldnt either ;)
As long as each keeps their masterpiece engines to themselves this could work.
More specifically, BMW’s: 3L I6 TT (petrol & diesel, yummy), 4L V8, 4L V8 TT, 5L V10 and Merc’s: 6.2L V8, 6L V12 TT (Thank you Merc for your viciously oversized engines =D)
I’d hate to see either of these companies lose any of these engines to the op.
“How can Merc be Bangled if hes left”
I know, hence here’s hoping they will ‘un-bangle’ all new models that’ll come out in the future, or they won’t see a cent from me. Having said that, merc could actually help BMW and make them actually look good again.
So true Dan,
BMW designs have been a bit too conservative lately, and frankly quiet boring also, lacking a bit of imagination! Recently The 7 series has even taken a few design queues from the Lexus LS. Daimler should also bring a little bit more of technologically innovation to the badge!!
hahaha Dan you sure your an accountant not a lawyer ,you are masterful at twisting things when trying to make your previous statements make sence. Merc wont have anything to do with BMWs style anyway .
Both, sort of. Master of tax law is one of my qualifications :)
Hopefully they won’t be sharing any design clues, although BMW could really use some from merc. My position on this hasn’t changed, and it still makes sense. If merc helps bmw in the looks department, then that’s good. If the other way arund, bad. Either way, BMW needs to do something about it, it’s ugly at the moment.
Quote “BMW marketing does an equally good job sucking people into buying their ugly bangled cars bavaria, it seems like they both went to the same marketing school, haha. ”
So why Dan did you buy one of his creations………who do you think designed the E46 ? BMW dont make white goods ,sorry! Bangle started in 1992 for BMW……….
Dan you cant honestly say that the A or B class Mrecs are Attractive.. Then of course there’s the Maybach
In terms of Design Mercs don’t age as gracefully as most BMWs [look at equivalent model cars from 5-10 years ago]
Chris Bangle designed the new models. E46 was simply a progression of the classic bmw looks from the past. He then restyled (ruined) it completely, and in my opinion mucked it up big time. Regardless if it’s ‘whitegoods’ or ‘bangled’ look, I wouldn’t buy either, so there!
WHeelnut, I never said all mercs are good looking, but they are better looking than bmw’s for sure! BMW’s age indeed. The current model is already aged out of the factory. Just look at the interior and the dash, sitting in there feels like you’re bck in the 80s haha.
BM, sorry they weren’t so much your thoughts as quotes. My bad.
But while BMW’s TT’s ARE torquey, they don’t seem to have the outputs they should considering the superiority of not only German engineering but BMW engine design. 400 nm from a twin turbo 6 (albeit delivered on a torque curve flat enough to serve a banquet on) is mediocre at best, GM’s 3.6 naturally aspirated V6 gets 370 nm and locally Fords’ 4.0 does 390 (without direct injection). Audi squeezed 450nm from their 2.5 I5 turbo.
600 nm from the TT 4.4 I think is a far better extraction on BMW’s behalf.
While it is a considerable of torque, Benz’s slightly older 5.5 V8 has a considerable 530 nm and 280 kw, the even older 5.4 Supercharged was tuned for between high 700’s and 830 nm, then you have the epic V12TT with between 900-1000 (electronically limited) newtons. The new 250CDi 2.1TT diesel is also delivers an epic 500 nm and the 320CDi is also due for a retune soon apparently and will see an increase on it’s 510 nm.
I dunno, I loves my torque. Its easier than wringing engines to the redline and works out more economical in that sense as well.
I suppose it really is one of the points that polarise BMW and Mercedes, and why it is interesting that these features are point of interest.
Wheelnut – you should have skipped A and B classes and gone straight for the R class, thats one car that just shouldn’t have seen the light of day. Plus, the B class really isn’t that bad. Sure its got a bit of an awkward nose and CL inspired shoulders, but its certainly more proportioned than the A class.
Sure 5-10 year old Mercs look pretty average but go back one more model and the Mercs are stunning classic cars, much better than comparative BMW’s. Everyone gets their era and at the moment, the E92 is the only decent looking car BMW has (new 7 series is growing on me). 1 series is design garbage, new Z4 is dismally wide, flat and awkward, 6 series seems to have down syndrome and the worst of all the bangle-butts. And the 5 series has eyelashes like Amy Winehouse. Whereas Mercedes have the handsome C class, gorgeous flowing CLK, sculpted CL and powerful SL. S, E and SLK don’t really do if for me.
Nuff said.