2009 Holden Calais Review & Road Test | Car Advice

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2009 Holden Calais Review & Road Test

HOLDEN CALAIS

Pros: Power, Smooth drivetrain, world-leading ride, space

Cons: Cheap, dated looking interior, not as frugal as one might think, satellite-navigation

By Karl Peskett |
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Price: $19,800 to $32,520

Our Rating:  

2009 Holden Calais V8 AFM Review & Road Test

09calaisafm-f3qusunlow

Has the luxo-Commodore moved with the times?

Model Tested:

  • 2009 Holden Calais V8 AFM, automatic – $52,290

Options:

  • Onyx Leather Inserts – $3000
  • Sunroof - $1990
  • Full Size Alloy Wheel Spare – $350
  • Satellite Navigation – $1990

CarAdvice Rating: rating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gif

- by Karl Peskett

A few years ago the moniker “Calais” used to have an air of sophistication about it. You can just imagine the conversation around the barbecue on the weekend.

“What do you drive?”
“A Calais.”
“Oh, nice.”

And the approving nod came with it. However once the VE rolled around, the name was somewhat diluted, because it’s what the Berlina used to be.

09calaisafm-sideview

So, is it still worth aspiring to? Is it the true luxury Commodore? That depends on whether you call a colour screen and leather seats luxurious. It is comfortable at least; more on that later. Mechanically, though, there are a few revisions with this Calais.

Four, five, six, depending on your specification, that’s how many gears are shoved into your VE Commodore’s automatic gearbox. You start out with the Omega at four, and at the top end, the Calais V8, which we’re testing here, receives six.

09calaisafm-r3qulow

It’s amazing the difference that a couple of years of refining has done to GM’s six-speed auto. When I first tested it, in a Caprice, it was clunky, hesitant, and flared all at the same time.

Now it’s smooth, adaptive, and apart from the occasional thunk on a part throttle downshift, it’s almost at ZF level. and that’s saying something.

However, it’s the new engine that we’ll concentrate on for a while.

09calaisafm-enginebay2

Holden’s Active Fuel Management (AFM) 6.0-litre V8 was fitted to our test car, and it’s fair to say we would have liked to see some sort of Texas Tea Totaller. To its credit, Holden doesn’t claim to halve the fuel consumption, or anything quite that bold, however a cynic would claim that instances in which the engine could have switched to four-cylinder mode didn’t see any change at all.

09calaisafm-enginebay

If it detected the slightest incline (just a degree or two), or literally millimetre movements of the throttle, it would switch back to eight-cylinder mode. The positive effect of this, of course, is that it’s smooth. Most drivers will barely detect the change, however the keen observers will notice a (very) slight vibration when changing over.

It means the V8 is always willing to get up and go, something any country cruiser will be thankful for, especially when overtaking, but it also means the litres-per-hundred figure isn’t quite what you’d expect.

09calaisafm-centrestack

In our week, we managed 13.8L/100km, and considering the wide variety of driving we encountered, it’s not a bad figure for a 6.0-litre V8 that was opened up once in a while. It’s still a far cry from the ADR tested 12.9 claimed by Holden.

09calaisafm-f3quzoom

In the real world, we’re realising that Holden’s AFM feature is a good thing on paper, but in practise, there’s still some work to do. Thankfully, the 260kW still puts a smile on your dial, even though its down 10kW from the outgoing model.

The exhaust note strikes an excellent compromise between a hairy-chested, throaty V8 bellow, and a quiet background hum, depending on throttle position. That’s not all there is to like about the Calais, either.

09calaisafm-f3qu2zoom

Really, the ride is about as good as you’ll get from any car these days. The FE1.5 suspension is near perfect in its body control, bump absorption and handling balance.

Small imperfections which normally would have the wheels stuttering in just about any Euro car, are simply soaked up and dismissed.

09calaisafm-calaisbadge

You would expect as much, with a billion dollar budget, and development right here in Australian conditions, but it still amazes me that our Aussie companies can get the ride and handling so right, and yet other worldwide marques can miss the mark in the suspension department.

Roadholding is excellent, although it does roll a little more than the sports-based variants, mainly due to the softer suspension tune, and the taller profile tyres. Turn-in is fine, but this is more a cruiser than out-and-out bruiser.

09calaisafm-f3qu1

The steering is also superb, with not too much weight, but genuine feel, and good feedback from full lock, especially when the tyres are loaded up. Couple that with good braking, and you’ve got the makings of a pearler of a car for our conditions.

But it’s not that simple.

09calaisafm-dashboard

The Calais suffers from being stifled by the VE’s inherent problems. The A-pillars will completely obstruct a motorcyclist when entering a roundabout, the bootlid is so high a reversing camera is needed, and the interior plastics are starting to look dated.

09calaisafm-intdrivers

The satellite navigation is also one of the most antiquated systems on the market. The DVD based system also suffers when going over speed bumps, such is its sensitivity. The interior is nowhere near the quality expected of something worth more than $50,000.

09calaisafm-rearseats

Sure, the space is brilliant, and the seating comfort is very good, but the leather quality is second-rate, as is the build. For example, the we opened the glovebox to inspect the owners manual, and once it was shut, it never opened again. The lock dislodged, preventing the pull-handle from working. The test car had less than 5000km on the odometer, just imagine it at 100,000km.

09calaisafm-sideviewzoom

The Calais V8 AFM isn’t a bad car, depending on your expectations. If you’re expecting world beating fuel usage, and Euro quality, then it’s best to look elsewhere. On the other hand, if you want space, pace, comfort and the best ride for under $100,000, you probably can’t go past it.

I wonder how the barbecue conversation would go these days.

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How does it Drive: rating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gifrating_half.GIF
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How does it Go: rating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gifrating11.gif

Specifications:

  • Engine: 6.0-litre V8 OHV AFM
  • Power: 260kW @ 5700rpm
  • Torque: 517Nm @ 4400rpm
  • Induction: Fuel injection, naturally aspirated
  • Transmission: Six-speed automatic
  • Differential/Driven Wheels: Open centre/Rear
  • Brakes: Ventilated discs front and rear – twin piston front, single piston rear
  • Top Speed: Not supplied
  • 0-100km/h: 6.0 seconds
  • 0-400m: Not tested
  • CO2 Emissions: 308g/km
  • Fuel Consumption: 12.9-litres/100km
  • Fuel Tank Capacity: 73 litres
  • Fuel Type: 91-98 RON petrol
  • ANCAP Rating: Four stars
  • Airbags: Six
  • Safety: ABS, BA, EBD, ESC
  • Spare Wheel: Full-size available
  • Tow Capacity: up to 2100kgs
  • Turning Circle: 11.4m
  • Warranty: Three years/100,000kms
  • Weight: 1790kgs
  • Wheels: 17 x7-inch alloy wheels. 225/55 R17 97V tyres

 

Reader reviews of the HOLDEN CALAIS

<

By: Jackson Emmett

Rating:  

Now 5 years old, the original VE Calais is extremely good value if not without some unexpected wear and tear. Read more

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Showrooms > Holden > Calais

2009 Holden Calais Review & Road Test
Holden
Calais

JL309I
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/karl-22.jpg

2009 Holden Calais Review & Road Test

3.5 stars
  • Deano

    It seems to me that each Calais model since the first has been less special, and had less to differentiate and command the premium.

    I find the criticisms regarding the interior to be the most surprising, I would have thought they might do something to address the obvious shortcomings in this area.

    Surely there’s currently far better choices in the price bracket, though the space, comfort and handling for our local road conditions is always very nice.

  • Frosty

    For a car that is still basically just on 3 years old it is stil one of the best handling cars in Australia and the best for its price. Stil proud of the VE’s. With a update to VF rumoured to be just around the corner you will see some cosmetic upgrades and the change to direct injection for the V6 and the 4 speed being retired this year if what I have heard is correct I can well and truelly see the Commodore getting even better and retaining its number one selling car in Australia ranking. One thing with the Calais tested was that on AFM and all other Commodores is that the Omega, SS, SSV, SV6, Berlina and both Calais models is that the badges are now located on the left side of the rear not on the right as in these Calais pictures. In the AFM models AFM is on the right hand sise as is LPG on the Omega and Berlina. But all models have their name on the left side now where the Commodore name used to be but is no longer there.

  • HAL

    Sheesh, what do you have to spend nowadays to get a car that is pleasing from every consideration point? It seems every car has some plusses, but just as many minuses. Even for a locally made $50K+ car! Boring as hell interior, nothing special about it at all. Once upon a time the reason Aussies were prepared to pay a premium for the top of the range Commodores and Falcons was because they offered basically everything the European marques seemed to for way less $$$ and a lot more power. Now it seems we have to pay a premium for the privilege of owning what is basically a premium Commodore, with an average exterior design, poor visibility, average interior quality with a glovebox that doesn’t even work? Unbelievable.

    I’ve had a Mazda 6 Luxury Sports for nearly 3 years now – even though it’s the superceded model it still looks great, interior is faultless and way better than some new cars today, it handles superbly, and not a single quality problem in the time I’ve had it. It seems the least you should be able to expect for parting with that much cash.

  • Simon

    More than ever a car for wealthy bogans.

  • Dan

    It’s a pity that Australian cars still haven’t caught up to the quality build of overseas brands. How hard is it to make a decent working glovebox? And you’re paying over 50K for this so called ‘luxury’ car?? Give me a break!

  • Golfschwein

    I would love to consider a VF Sportwagon when the VFs arrive. With a diesel or smaller displacement (3.2 litre, as in Captiva?) direct injection and 6 speed autos, I’d live around the thick A pillar.

    But I don’t think I can live around their reputation for niggly build quality and electronics. It’d make me me hope I “get a good one” and no buyer should have to consider that in this day and age.

  • Dan

    Problem is, there is too many die hard blind followers of Holden, and Holden knows this. Hence they don’t really have to try hard at improving their quality at all, since they will still sell. Shame really…

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au Karl Peskett

    Frosty, I took those photos, and can assure you that the car on test is the car in the photos.

    The badge was on the right on this particular AFM model.

  • Goodfa

    I think it is time for Holden to fast track the VF!

    If the interior gets a freshen up and more economical Direct Injected motors are added then I think the Commodore will be on more peoples shopping list.

    As it stands now the Commodore is trailing its competitors as an overall package.

    Come on Holden bring on VF!

  • Leafspring

    Good honest review & seems like the update is long overdue(and that’s hoping that the updates are significant when they do occur). I think the G6ET is a better proposition, given better performance, seamless transmission and economy figures. Aesthetics is subjective – personally I prefer the G6ET. Historically, resale may be a concern with both cars – particularly the Ford if wanting to change sooner than later. As for the faulty glovebox in the test vehicle – so what! A fair number of vehicles return to their dealers for some form of faulty workmanship. Warranty should fix it in a jiffy.

    Dan Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
    “Problem is, there is too many die hard blind followers of Holden, and Holden knows this. Hence they don’t really have to try hard at improving their quality at all, since they will still sell. Shame really…”

    Do you seriously and honestly believe that Dan?

  • Dan

    Leafspring – “Do you seriously and honestly believe that Dan?”

    Well, given that I have met and know plenty of people like that, yes. It’s usually the sort that won’t acknowledge anything other than a Holden. You know the type :)

    Having said that, it’s not a bad car by any means. Quite well equipped with a bit of poke. But there are people who look for more refinement in their car, and that’s where this one fails.

  • Adam

    Nice review.

    The Calais is certainly a pretty good car in V8 guise.

    I think the interior is fine, the ergonomics and layout of everything is just perfect, which I don’t think is the case in the current Falcon.

    All things considered, I’d probably lean towards the G6ET in this price bracket.

    One thing is for sure, the local products in this segment still offer tremendous bang for your buck. However the badge snobs will label you a ‘bogan’ for even considering one.

    Ignorance and Insecurity there :)

  • Dan

    Leafspring – “As for the faulty glovebox in the test vehicle – so what! A fair number of vehicles return to their dealers for some form of faulty workmanship. Warranty should fix it in a jiffy.”

    If it’s not the glovebox, it would be something else. This only proves the general level of build quality of this car. Why should you be wasting your time, taking your car for pesky warranty fixes numerous times? Personally, I’d find that annoying. Believe it or not, there are cars which don’t need to be taken to the dealer to constantly fix up annoying issues like that. Which brings me to my first post…

  • Buck

    The obvious competitor to the Calais is the multi award winning G6ET which has received almost universal praise and is a vastly better car than the Calais.

    The reason, and the only reason for that matter, that the Holden continues to outsell the superior Ford prduct is through massive fleet discounting. But for how long considering GM is all but broke ?

    Go the FG Falcon, a significantly superior vehicle.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    hey dan,

    and those cars couldn’t be toyota’s either could they.no smokin seat belts here…

  • Dan

    Yaris does not equal all of toyota does it?

  • Mal

    I find it amusing that there was a problem with the glovebox! A few years back I was catering at a VE launch track day for journos, dealers and the like. I remember listening to a briefing where everybody was asked not to touch the gloveboxes in the vehicles as Holden were having problems with them. All this time later and they still haven’t fixed it?

  • FRUGAL-ONE

    This vehicle is simply to expensive, together with a *stupid* name……Why does a Aussie car need a French town name?

    Poor quality [no excuse], poor resale, no outstanding features or technology.

    Not special enough for the coin, and the base line models are so well equipped these days its becoming pointless [Just ask Fairlane/LTD].

    Lots of superior cars for around that price point, XC60 comes to mind.

    Cheers

    F-0

  • Devil666

    I’m with Adam, I have no idea where the interior design criticisms are coming from. Its logical and efficient and ergonomic, unlike the Ford layout which bulges and has too many tiny thin buttons and has cheaper feeling plastics anyway. The climate control on the VE V spec range is faultless and heavily based on an Audi design and the audio system is faultless with simple layout rotary controls. The textured dash and soft touch plastic upper centre stack area deserve no criticism, but below the divider, the plastics are hard and ill textured, and are really the only part of the interior that bring the car down. How can you look past the suede opening door pockets?

    Buck,
    “Really, the ride is about as good as you’ll get from any car these days. The FE1.5 suspension is near perfect in its body control, bump absorption and handling balance.”
    “The steering is also superb, with not too much weight, but genuine feel, and good feedback from full lock, especially when the tyres are loaded up. Couple that with good braking, and you’ve got the makings of a pearler of a car for our conditions.”

    Does that sound like the making of a vastly inferior car?

    Design of the glovebox could have been better. 30,000kms later and still no problems *touch wood* but you can feel the locking mechanism and hinges aren’t quite as solid as they should be, considering the size of the glovebox.

    As for electrical issues and build quality, nothing has broken yet. CD player froze once, but that restarted itself fine. My older Benz had many more issues with it’s COMAND. But the hinge on the rear DVD player isn’t as tight as it was, resulting in the screen flopping back and forward a bit.

    The only real issue I’ve had with the V spec is that the key seems to not have the range to open the car that it used to. That is probably just a failing battery. So much fun to drive!

  • crouchy

    For me the proof comes from my boss who has always been and always will be a die hard holden fan. Every work car hes had has been a holden. Vy avalanche, vz ssv, ve berlina.

    After trying to convince himself that the VE was still a great competitor to the fg, he finally gave up and recently purchase a silver G6E.

    A month down the track he still cant beleive how far fords have come along and how much he prefers the fg to his VE Berlina.

    Alarm bells surely must ring when your die-hard fans are jumping ship….

  • Mick

    Buck, one important thing your forgetting with the FG Falcon is that it is less than a year old where the VE is 3. I would hope that the FG is better, also don’t forget the VE won all the same awards that the FG has recently won as well.

  • Dan

    Alarm bells haven’t stopped ringing for years Crouchy. They’re only getting louder and louder :)

    Mal, that’s a cracker! How embarassing for Holden! And they still have this issue. Typical!

    Sooner or later, the public will see it for what it is, and Holden will have no option but to improve greatly, otherwise it will be a case of bye bye Holden… While Ford has made some steps in improving their quality, Holden has been standing still, relying on the die hard customer base to drive sales. That won’t last… Their car’s aren’t even wanted overseas, even though they’ve been trying hard to break into the international markets, with minimum success.

  • Goodfa

    They are also still having flat battery issues with the VE.To still have this problem nearly three years down the track is unforgiveable.
    Issues like flat batteries should be sorted ASAP.
    I personally know of three people who will not buy another Commodore because of this issue.(not because they had a flat battery in a new car but because they found out it was an issue since VE was released and there cars were 2008 models with the same problem)

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Quote “Curious Says: {From the Kia thread Dans bagging…}
    March 16th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    I used to know this guy (ex-coworker now living in Queensland) who had this Hyundai Accent for more than 9 years. He said it’d never broken down on him and he’d easily buy another Hyundai i.e. great value and reliability.

    I also know a guy who bought his Toyota Camry brand new only to have:

    - The front right and rear left shockbreakers replaced coz they were squeaking (imagine the embarassment of driving a brand new car that squeaks on bumps)
    - Left headlight refitted due to gaps and moisture buildup
    - Right tail light seal replaced (water got in)
    - Driver’s side door panel taken apart to fix a loose door clip that was rattling
    - Rear bumper readjusted (sagging)

    All above before it had 500km on the odo.

    Then he told me he had to take it back in some time later since the steering wheel was squeaking when turned –> the steering column had to be replaced, twice.

    Name one thing that’s the same between Toyota Camry and Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon (this also includes Mitsubishi Magna)?

    They’re all AUSTRALIAN builds”"

    Now before you start another s*it fight on here Dan remember those in Glasshouses should throw stones,you dont really want me bringing up all the Toyota recalls and problems that they are having with 200 series Landcruisers do you ?

    Dan we all get it, you dont like Holden,Ford,Kia,Huyndai,BMWs,Mazdas……….blah blah blah.we all know you do support and heavily endorse TOYOTA…………..

    You sound like a broken record DUDE!

  • Frosty

    Sorry Karl, I never stated these photos were not of a AFM Calais, I was just stating that there were changes made to advertise to the public that these were AFM V8′s. They have also done the samewith the LPG model Commodores. In the place of where the Calaid badge is located on your test car the AFM badge has been put and the Calais like all the other model Commodores Omega etc are now located on the left side. I have photos of the AFM and LPG Commodores including shots of the badges. I do know its only a minor detail and that your car was a media test pre production model but some people like to be noticed as having the latest tech (Like I am with Phones LOL) and having it is sort of a show off factor if someone comes up to them and says hey you got the AFM V8 whats it like? type question. Its a ego thing. Not meant to undermine you just stating something the photos didn’t show.

  • HAL

    ^ BM, why do let Dan get to you so much? He has stated many times that he actually doesn’t have any preference for Toyotas, he just enjoys baiting those who blindly support other makes. Yes, what he says gets repetitive, and ok, slightly annoying, but if it really annoys you, then just don’t bite.

  • Leafspring

    Dan Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
    ….there are cars which don’t need to be taken to the dealer to constantly fix up annoying issues like that. Which brings me to my first post…

    Agreed! But from my experience there will always be some people who don’t forthrightly or honestly tell others about their warranty claims. Reasons may be fear, that they may not have made the right choice in the purchase of a car to those who are ignorant or simply don’t care. I’m sure that if you think long and hard Dan, you’ll be able to reflect on a number of warranty claims that you may have made in the past….? By the way, keep ‘stirring the pot’ – after all, we share parallels in the pursuit and passion of the ultimate QUALITY set of wheels. :)

  • Alec

    To everyone who thinks reliability problems only occur on australian made cars here is my experience.
    We have had an even mix of Australian, japanese, European and some american cars over the last 15 years.

    When it comes to reliability there was not a stand out car. They were all of the same level.

    European cars problems included:
    -leaking roof and door seals
    -electrical problems
    -pre delivery inspect failed to pick up auto oil half empty
    -interior trims coming loose
    -airbag sensors
    -uneven tyre wear

    Japanese Cars problems included:
    -electrical problems
    -transmission problems
    -faulty wagon rear door latches causing interior lights to turn on
    -endless rattles
    -interior trims coming loose
    -poor longegevity of exterior rubbers in australian sun
    -uneven tyre wear
    -stereos/cd players that only last the warranty period
    -exhaust leaks

    Australian cars problems included:
    -electrical problems
    -moisture in headlights
    -door locks
    -exhaust leaks
    -interior trims coming loose
    -paint contamination
    -brake disc warping
    -uneven tyre wear

    American car problems included:
    -Interior trims coming loose
    -electrical problems
    -handbrake failure
    -endless rattles

    Basically same issues across all vehicles.

    Australian reliability was worse 15-20 years ago no doubt what so ever, however it is now at a competitive level.

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Hey HAL ,Ive not bitten all weekend and his taunts at me directly this morning regarding what I drive wasnt replied to just reported to Alborz via email.

    My last comment was simply to say the worlds richest car manufacturer has more than it share of recalls and problems so why bag Holden ?

    Watch him launch over to the latest Hyundai thread and kick that too pieces!

    Thankyou mmmmmwwwwhhhhaaa, Alec that what my point exactly!

  • Dan

    Bavaria said – “Dan we all get it, you dont like Holden,Ford,Kia,Huyndai,BMWs,Mazdas……….blah blah blah.we all know you do support and heavily endorse TOYOTA…………..”

    Funny, since I have owned Fords and BMWs. Not to mention that I bought my little sister a Mazda. Would I buy something I don’t like? I don’t wear blinkers like you do bavaria, I’m sorry.

    And I’m not after any fights, merely stating the obvious. You don’t like to hear facts and truth, don’t read my comments, simple :)

    Leafspring, I’ll be honest with you, I have had warranty claims on pretty much all my cars in the past, other than my IS250 which I’ve had for over a year now, for which I am VERY impressed (or perhaps lucky, who knows). The issues with others were all minor though, anything from electric seats not working in the beamer, to odometer cluster stuffing up in the Fairmont etc etc.

  • http://pirelli topdog

    Yeh just another commondore test with all the same problems and a bad interior.Havernt thay got any other cars to test, instead of the same old car all the time

  • .

    GM made car? No thanks..

  • Dan

    Bavaria – “You sound like a broken record DUDE!”

    I’ll make sure I tell you this next time there’s another toyota story, in which no doubt usual toyota bashing will follow.

  • .

    Do you guys know that among the GM’s sister companies such as Holden Opel etc, GM Daewoo has produced most reliable cars? In fact, GM Daewoo made cars have induced a lot fewer warranty claims than GM Holden made cars.. That is GM Holden is worse than GM Daewoo in terms of qulaity…What a shock!!

  • Karl Peskett

    Frosty, no worries.

    Thanks for your comments.

  • Dan

    Dot, did you know that Daewoo many years, was selling old Opel designs badged as Daewoo? There you go :)

  • Tomas79

    Dan, thats what Holden does with Daewoos these days!!

    As for the Calais, no wonder GM Holden is in the state it is. Compared to Hyundai Equus this is a joke.

    Bavarian Missile Says: “his taunts at me directly this morning regarding what I drive wasnt replied to just reported to Alborz via email.”

    The truth must hurt so bad, you have to bother Alborz with it??

  • Frosty

    My pleasure Karl, I do reviews of mobile phones and am also open to comments if and we all do miss something occassionally because of so much more important stuff to relay through. What I do is a hobby though as I am no expert at gramer but I am at mobile phones having tested over 200. But anyway take care and I look forward to reading your next review.

    This review was excellent reading and I agree with all you say about the VE. For a 3 year old design though it would be foolish to think its the best car out there but for its age thats a good review about it. Lets look forward to seeing a VF with some of those annoying complaints rectified.

  • Andrew M

    When i tested the VE range I also noticed the glove box issue, and i think ive stated it on here before.

    I actually sat in the drivers seat and basiclly opened and shut everything. i reached across and open the glove box and then tried to shut it. i had to reach across with 2 hands to close it because the door was that flimsy. i think thats where the whole problem is stemming from.

    if the door was a little more rigid, once you close it both sides would close evenly and the latch would line up better meaning it would most likely not jamb as it did in this instance.
    Thats my take on it.

    Oh and who was it that preached that the VE ergonomics are far better than the FG’s???
    Get off the grass, I beg to differ.
    I actually tested for ergonomics in the VE’s and then back to back straight into the FG’s.
    The functionallity in the FG’s is far easier to navigate and reach.
    I can rest my wrist on the gear stick and press every single button on the command console in the FG, and the menu in the command console itself is a breeze to navigate.

    Thats my rant on that over,

    QUOTE………….
    “On the other hand, if you want space, pace, comfort and the best ride for under $100,000, you probably can’t go past it.”

    I totally agree with that.
    To the person that disagreed with that, could you please name this massive list of euros with more space, comfort and power than this for 70K

    sure the build quality is a little dodge, but it doesnt take away the good traits that it does have

  • Andrew M

    OH,
    and if you think the visibility out of the VE sedan is bad, go and drive a VE ute

  • Phil C.

    Ford already has a much better “active fuel management” engine. It’s called a turbo!

    The FG G6ET has much power, much more torque across a broader rev range, uses significantly less fuel all whilst being faster and more refined!

    The VE Calais is a good car, but it’s ‘Calais lite’.

    The FG range is simply better.

  • Andrew M

    Karl,
    just in reading you comments on how “touchy” the AFM is, would it be fair to reccommend an override button for it?

    Also, when its on 4cyls, does it seem to rev higher???

  • Chucky

    If Holden can improve the build quality of their cars I think they will be onto a winner, because they have got the basics right. My dad had a WM Caprice which was a very nice car, but the build quality wasn’t up to scratch. The glovebox door was flimsy and didn’t latch on properly, and the car doors sounded very tinny when you close them. I would still recommend it, but you can somewhat understand why a Caprice is only 1/3rd the price of a 7 Series or S-Class.

    He now drives a new Murano, and while the interior doesn’t look as nice, the build quality is miles ahead of the Caprice.

  • Shak

    Hey you can’t really bag Holden for things like quality and fit and finish. The german marques have had close to 200 years of experience and healthy cash flow. they also have many alliances with so many car companies(VW group). Its all GM’s fault, they cant offer Holden any good gearboxes or even access to good quality material suppliers. maybe if holden were bought by some good company they could then maybe develop some good in house tech. Lets hope for yhe sake of the mostproud Aussie manufacturer that they can fix their quality problems. Although i am a red blooded man the new FG falcon is a superb car that has actually trumped the commodore in a few key areas ( namely ergonomics). Keep on going Holden.

  • Alex

    I don’t usually agree with Dan, but he is 100% right when he writes that there are too many blind supporters of Holden. How could you debate that? That’s why people buy Commodores instead of the Falcon which, according to basically every motoring journalist, has well and truly won the battle and why people buy Epicas instead of 6s and Mondeos. And why people buy Barinas at all.
    I’d like to see what would happen to their sales if it was suddenly very well known to all Australians that not only are 80% of all Holdens not built in Australia, but that they are rebadged Daewoos. I bet about 70% of all Barina, Epica and Captiva buyers don’t know about the Daewoo thing and that about 80% don’t know about the safety problems in the Barina.

  • trackdaze

    I’ve Passengered in a Calais V6 for a bit and the tupperware dash and the gravelly engine note were enough to put me off. Steering cant be assessed from the passenger seat. We haven’t yet understeered into a light pole or sign so that’s one up on every early model VT I see running around.

    as for afm v8′s “fool” economy?

    Seems the AFM is more marketing toss rather than any real benefit to fuel economy. The V6 accord is no better either in besting benchmark v6′s. Great in principle-poor in practice. Just how long does the calais motor spend as a 3litre 4cyl and how much fuel does it use? Does it save any fuel at idle?

    Bring back the economy gauge I reckon, this time with $ per minute graduations.

  • Bret

    Alex, I was talking to an ex GMH employee a few weeks ago and he had no idea about the Daewoo rebadging. And this blue-collar turned Engineer isn’t dumb either, it’s just the blind loyalty thing. Many companies depend on it and cultivate it, but it works especially well for Holden & Toyota.

  • Wopenka

    G6E need i say more?

  • http://integra holstein hore ).( ).(

    HAHAAAHAH its all so funny , blind brand allegiance.

    I can remember a dude in the pub in the 90s believing that the holden apollo was built by holden ,and not toyota for GMH , and that no way was a lexan built for toyota by holden .

    So true you can fool some of the peoples all the time , cause dad had one it must be good .

    Funny holden and toyota the great enemies , may be they should go back to brand sharing , and fool some more idiots

  • Tom

    People always complain about build quality in reviews, maybe i have just been lucky, but my Holdens have always held together well

    sure after 10 years a few uneven scenes is noticible in the interior panels and stuff like that, but they are hardly about to fall appart.

  • Tom

    i spoke to a person the other day with a viva and they had no idea it was a daewoo. I bet thats a common trait too.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan Says:Problem is, there is too many die hard blind followers of Holden, and Holden knows this. Hence they don’t really have to try hard at improving their quality at all, since they will still sell. Shame really…

    Same applies to Toyota Dan particularly when you consider tyhe increase in Recalls the big T have had over the past couple of years

    Funny thing is that it appears to be that when Toyota recalls 1.4 million cars for a problem with the seatbelt its an isolated incident.
    However when a VE Calais [which is most likely a "media car"] has a minor problem such as a faulty glove box door its a problem that effects every single Holden made – since 1948

    Mind you that is according to the all knowing all seeing authority figure on this site who knows everything about anything with his holier than thou attuitude oblivious to all in his Lexus

  • Andrew M

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha,
    I agree with Dan totally on the blind loyalty thing,
    but this time round Dan, Wheelnut has got you.

    He is tottaly right to point out your reasoning that
    QUOTE……….
    “Funny thing is that it appears to be that when Toyota recalls 1.4 million cars for a problem with the seatbelt its an isolated incident.
    However when a VE Calais [which is most likely a "media car"] has a minor problem such as a faulty glove box door its a problem that effects every single Holden made – since 1948″

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
    And im not being biased about it because i slam wheelnut for many things when i believe he isnt correct aswell ha ha ha ha

  • Dan

    Hahaha, way to go about diverting attention away from the failure that is your beloved Holden Wheelnut! Seriously, do you believe that Holden doesn’t do recalls? Way more than Toyota hahaha. You know things aren’t all that well with a company, when stuff keeps on going wrong which affects everyone in an annoying kind of way (as well as safety for recalls that Holden does), but the small things are too small to justify a mass recall, yet a pain in the butt having to go every month to the dealer to get stupid stuff like a glovebox fixed. From a numbers point of view, you fail to realise Wheelnut, that you should classify it based on how many recalls, not how many cars were recalled. Otherwise companys like Proton, which sell 1000 cars a year, if they were to do a recall, or even 20 recalls, it would be comparatively a small number, which wouldn’t mean a thing when compared to other brands, yet woudl be ridiculously stupid to have a recall on a car so many times. As far as the yaris recall goes, the number is so huge simply to the fact that it is such a bestseller, there are just so many cars out there that were purchased by the discerning public, over say, a Barina haha. Your argument is a FAIL wheelnut.

    Now let’s get back on topic. Perhaps we can discover how many more annoying breaksdowns you can find in the VE haha.. Seriously, if I paid 50K for that car, and just drove out of the dealership with dumb faults in it, I’d demand a refund, or at least a partial cash back. Of course blind holden fans by now probably assume a glovebox is meant to stay broken! :)

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    goodfa,

    ve since may08(my09)has no battery drama’s at all.if your mates didn’t get the upgrades,get them to stop leaving the keys in the ignition,or stop the lights staying on,or whatever.build a bridge.

    tomas79,

    i’ve just talked to hyundai australia,and your equus is coming,time to trade the camry in.or you could have 2 jokes with decent grills on them…

    to all the glove box guys,you’ll be happy to know that from ve (my9.5) holden has solved your problems.have they improved the design?no.have they replaced the switch?no.have they put in a equus glovebox?no.what have they done?well they’ve simply removed the centre partition,so now everyone can jam more sh#t in them…

    lastly.and most importantly.afm is free.if it was say a $1000 option,no one would take it.if you can get say 80 further k’s highway cycle,and still overtake b-doubles like there standing still,then why not…

  • Tomas79

    Jekyl & Hyde,
    What are you on about? Don’t have a camry!!

  • http://integra holstein hore ).( ).(

    Dan the man your so spot on regarding VE breakdowns , ask a sales rep .

    I have many reps calling on me , lets talk about the VE mate .

    Where do we start , air con , alternators , the list goes on .

    Ask the rep what do you think of it mate , well it is a bit annoying when the air con fails on a hot day and the dealer says ” turn off the engine , wait 3 mins and restart , it should come back on soon .

  • the fact

    both holden and ford won’t be here today if australians cared about the quality.what you can get from them is low tech and poor quality vehiles at higher prices.any wonder every 10 cars they sold only 2 went to private buyers.pls also don’t forget the japanese average model life circle is 5 years compared with that two every 10 years or so,then you get series 2,3,4..so on.that the way they made money with no innovation.holden used very old push rod engine for almost 20 years and got away with it.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    sorry tomas,

    thought you bought it off dan.my mistake.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    holstein hore,

    your also living in my08 days.move on.nobody’s addressed a REAL BIG current issue yet.can’t wait for it to surface…

  • Dan

    Bought what off me Jekyl? You make no sense whatsoever.

    Holstein, that’s so ridiculous. See, stuff like this should be recalled, yet they sweep it under the carpet and attempt to deal with it on an individual basis, hoping media won’t get hold of this. Otherwise they’d be having 10 recalls a month!

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    it was dan,it was.and the sat nav and dvd drains,and everything else.yawn,it there anything else…

  • Wheelnut

    You are unbelieveable Dan…
    Because when Toyota recalls 1.4 million cars due to a problem with seatbelts you say its an isolated incident.

    However; when a journalist makes note of a issue with the glove box door on what is most likely a “media car”.. you make it sound as if its a problem which has affected every Holden ever made [since 1948] and could cause more accidents or fatalities than a faulty seatbelt.

    You say it shows that Holdens build quality or reliability hasn’t improved yet given the increase in the number of recalls of Toyotas over recent years – theirs ain’t that good either…. and is gradually getting worse.

  • Dan

    Yes it was, just Yarises. The only reason the number was so huge was because it is such as best seller. Like I said, if Proton did a recall on their cars, it would be like a 1000, and you would think it is nothing. If it did 20 recalls, 20,000 cars still don’t match up to the larger yaris single recall number. Yet imagine if you were the owner, going through 20 recalls on your vehicle, by the end of it, you would think it is rubbish wouldn’t you?

    Besides, why are you bringing toyota into it? It’s off topic. Let Holden’s lack of quality and incompetence shine here in its full glory lol! Last time I checked, they had way more recalls too.

  • Glenn

    To the car advice expert journos all other publications and revwiers are very complimentary in their review of AFM except for you. It seems to me that you are out of step and have no idea whay you are writing about as evidenced by the many b grade reviews i have seen you do. If you want to be a genuine reviewer of all things automotive then you need to be a informed amd are not based on your average age.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    dan,

    don’t forget your piston slapping camry’s,clutch and diff blowing hilux’s and landcruiser ute’s as well.glass houses and stones ah

  • Wheelnut

    Aahh no Toyota have had more recalls Dan – you’re forgetting Toytas are sold in more countries than Holden Remember?

    Not only that but a number of the cars that are experiencing these problems or being recalled are marketed by Toyota as the best there is – the Landcruiser for example

    So given that Toyotas reputation is founded on reliability and superior build quality the increase in recalls its not looking good.

  • Will

    Paint it yellow and give it gas conversion.

    Falcodores, a cancer on the potential of our engineers.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan I know Holden do have recalls I admit that because unlike you I am able to admit that Holden do have and have had their problems that they have made mistakes..

    I for one couldn’t understand why they stopped importing Opels in Favour of Daewoos.

    Nor can understand why they’re making a replica of the Cruze instead of building a RWD Insifnia [Torana] given that the Cruze is made in other countries where its cheaper to import cars from like Korea.. and the Insignia is a more flexible platform etc. Having said that I am glad that Holden are diversifying their operations just like Ford is – it helps stabilise/secure their future.

    However; surely its the number of cars affected by the recalls not the actual number of recalls that is more relevant? Because the greater the number of cars affected the greater the possiblilty the fault could cause a potentially fatal accident.

  • Cupid Stunt

    Oooh the bunfight at Port Elizabeth’s started.

    As for the Calias – Ain’t bad but ain’t good either. It does look a little staid against newer models. Considering the VE is only 3yrs old it hasn’t worn too well. Needs a workover, but given that GM has no money I cannot see it happening soon. A mild make over won’t work it needs something special. A diesel might work!!

  • Frenchie

    Bret:
    I know engineers and engineers at Holdens. They are very intelligent people, but very few have any common sense, and alot have their hands tied by a finance department.

  • Tim

    F**k’s sake (Im sorry for the language) but ANOTHER Toyota thread???!!! WHY?

    Back on topic: LOL Holden, back in your whole. Yuck.

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au Karl Peskett

    Andrew M, re: AFM’s touchiness:

    No, no override needed. It would thump big time if loaded up and then sprung back onto 8 cylinders, which would make it a very uncomfortable drive experience.

    No, it doesn’t rev higher, as it’s still revolving the same amount of mass, therefore the revolutions per minute (of the crankshaft) are the same.

    A note for other commenters, too – keep in mind the code of conduct. Keep it on topic please.

  • Goodfa

    Jekyl & Hyde,

    One was in fact a June 2008 build and he did not leave keys in the ignition.It was just parked with nothing turned on and when he went to start it it was dead.
    So unless this was a one off it appears they did not fix the battery issue in May 08 as you claim.

    Even it was fixed it May08 that means it has taken from July 2006 until May 2008 to fix an issue that coud leave the car stranded.(I say it again this is unforgiveable)

  • Mr Brooksy

    Car Advice,

    Great write up! I love the fact you guys say it how it is. I have always been impressed by your honesty and unbiased opinions. Even when I disagree!

    The Calais used to be exactly what you said, something Aussies aspired too, nowdays its just another rung in the Commodore range. A pretty good range mind you, but nothing special. Nice to hear that their 6 speed auto has caught up to the competition. But my question here is (and I’ve asked it since the VX to VY series change)… What has happened to their interior designers? Have they hit their head and not come out of a coma? Its hiddious! I sat in one at its launch, and shuddered at the shear ugly surroundings. Ugly and horrible plastics etc, and that Handbrake! Surely the VF will have a completely new interior?

    Anyways, keep up the great work. Im glad their are guys who dont pander to any brand like Wheels do to Holden etc.

    Mr Brooksy

  • B-Man

    Glenn,
    That is simply not true. I have read at least 3 different reviews regarding the AFM system in the commodore that have been less than shining. Most report lack of power compared to previous model (as they are now down 10kw), barely noticeable decrease in fuel consumption compared to previous model and some find when running in 4cyl mode that it has noticeble vibration. Time to start reading other stuff than Wheels.

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    goodfa,

    ve was 10/06 start.all the my08 and my8.5′s had a rework done by computer of fix the alt probs.my09 saw the end of the drama’s,and a battery saver mode was introduced.now i’m not sticking up 4 holden re flat battery’s,it should not of happened,by did you realise that if the battery has not got 12v in it when the keys turned,it simply won’t start.so a light left on,a key left in,a boot left open,will eventually cause a problem.in the new ones,if you get in the car,and the battery saver warning comes on,you best go for a little drive…

  • UncleCracker

    I have had a VE Calais since 2006. And f**k me dead the glove box works ?. Next Question from the petty minded ???.

    My previous car was a BA Ghia. Nice car to look at and drive. But after my 4th trip back with brake issues i had had it up to my hair. Twice back for steering vibrations, Nothing a good flush could help. I knocking from the rear end ford themselves couldn’t fix. A strange missing in the motor had it running on 4 cylinder and amazingly fixed itself ?. By 2006 i was looking around. And the Calais Won me over. Issues. Software update. Before this i had bugs of warnings of esp off and engine light errors. No flat battery. My centre screen tft died on me. Replaced factory warranty.

    In 2008 i took a Aurion SX6 for a test drive. The dash moved towards me 5cm in testing. The dealer told me it has never happen before. I didn’t stick around for a repeat.

  • The Realist

    So this is the car in V8 guise Wheels said they’d take over a BMW 550i even if money was no object? No wonder serious car buyers have no respect for the magazine.

    Who in their right minds would buy this repmobile for $50K+?? Look at all the other alternatives, both new and used, in this price range. At least it looks nicer than the FG Falcon, with the 20″ wheels anyway.

    BTW, there was no mention of the big T until two of the three stooges started posting (Wheelnut, Bavarian Missile) – where’s your pal Realcars? You guys must have a serious chip on your shoulder about Toyota ay?

    The posters above might keep harping on about BMW, Merc and Lexus breakdowns, but their service is exemplary – when my colleague’s 540i had an electrical issue, they provided him with a 550i, a business centre to use at the dealership, and free airport transfers. I get the feeling Holden dealerships don’t have business centres…

  • Dan

    The Realist said – “BTW, there was no mention of the big T until two of the three stooges started posting (Wheelnut, Bavarian Missile) – where’s your pal Realcars? You guys must have a serious chip on your shoulder about Toyota ay?”

    Yep, the usual suspects…

  • Wheelnut

    Sorry to tell you this Realist but a number of the Major Holden Dealerships do have “business centres” and other facilities for customers to use whilst their car is being serviced etc.. and some like Suttons City in Sydney and Metro Holden in Adelaide also offer a [Airport] Shuttle service..

    Not only that but even selected Bridgestone Tyre outlets have them – So they’re not totally exclusive to the more “prestigious” brands

  • Wheelnut

    If I had $50K to spend on a Locally Built car I would most likely opt for either a new FPV F6 ute or a Maloo.. something that offers a bit more performance and excitement

  • Dan

    One prestigous brand offers more than just an airport shuttle. Drive your car to the airport, they pick it up from you there and then, drive it back for storage. On return, you get it back fully detailed, just step back in your car, when you step out of the plane. Easy! All you gotta tell them is the flight number you’re on and the time, and someone will be there waiting for you.

  • Bret

    Dan, obviusly a good service, but you’d be blind stupid to think that you, and everyone else, haven’t already paid for that service in the initial purchase price, whether you are in the 5% that use it or not.
    If they were being up-front with these sort of in-built costs, most would choose to opt out, catch a cab or limo service and save many thousands of dollars.

  • Dan

    So does the shuttle Bret, so does the shuttle :P

  • Wheelnut

    I don’t think its added into the purchase price because not everyone chooses to get their new car serviced at the dealership.

    Its more likely added on to the service/repair bill – under labour: [with how many hours one of their employees spent waiting for you at the airport not to mention stuck in traffic jams]

    Sure they may detail your car but what’s not to say they use some inferior quality product or that they even change the water.. and your car was the last in line

  • Bret

    Dan, no argument there, I just prefer to pay for what I use, not get charged up front for something I may never use or get any value out of.
    Clearly Lexus and other premiums like to charge up front, then drip feed back to those that use the service. Overall I think that you’ll find that it’s a big fat black entry on the ledger books.
    It’s a bit like free public transport to get to the footy -they add a levy to every ticket, but only make it practical for less than half of the people to use it.

  • Dan

    Wheelnut – “Sure they may detail your car but what’s not to say they use some inferior quality product or that they even change the water.. and your car was the last in line”

    Surely Holden wouldn’t be that cheap? It doesn’t cost much to change the water in the bucket…

  • Dan

    No Bret. They charge 30 bucks for the airport service, so not in the price of the car for the very reason you mentioned. The service pick up and drop off, and the loan cars on the other hand are free (with full tank of petrol), so they obviously have it hidden somewhere in the cost of the car, obviously. End of the day, I love it, as me and my missus doesn’t have to waste her time, driving a second car with me etc. just to get a car serviced. I’m happy to pay for such service

  • Bret

    Dan, no worries, I am happy to pay the cost for the convenience, provided I have the choice. What annoys me is when it’s hidden in the mix and you are charged whether you use the service or not, and are not given the choice.

  • Dan

    Bret, you have a choice. You either buy the car. Or you don’t. Simple. Given that lots of customers come back and actually love this service, that is a popular choice indeed.

  • Wheelnut

    Dan It doesn’t only happen at Holden Dealers – at those Yuppie Car Wash Cafes you see [particularly in sydney] where they wash your car for $5 and charge you $10 for the “Coffee”.. I have seen them wash 4-5 cars before changing the water

    My uncle went to one and ended up with scratches and swirls over his new Luxury Euro…. luckily Meguiar’s had a product which could remove them – If you want a job doen properly do it yourself

    The car wash etc is merely a gimmick to make you think that youre getting something extra at no extra

  • Dan

    Agreed! I never use automatic car washes. You’ll be lucky if they don’t ruin your painwork. Even one of those DIY car washes, I’ve seen people wash brake dust off their wheels with the brush, and you then wash your car with it. No thanks!

  • Wheelnut

    Dan whilst I wouldn’t use one of those Auto Car Washes either

    There are a number of people that don’t have the space to wash their cars at home which is why you see so many of those DIY Car Wash centres around

    Some of which have new high tech “soft brush” or “jet stream” car washes with filtered water etc similar to those that a number of car manufaturers have at their factories to wash the cars at the end of the line; which are alot better than the ones at the local petrol station/roadhouse

    So if you don’t enough to have the space to wash youe car at home I suggest look for one of them.

  • Dan

    Yeah, space can be a problem for some. To be honest, I never had that problem so haven’t really looked at those safer carwashes in detail. Just saying, best to be careful and check it first, before you put your car in there :)

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    the reason you see so many DIY car washes around is because people are starting to use tham as some sort of hang out place.
    I know people who have plenty of space to wash a car and still want to go to “car lovers”.
    surely everyone has a driveway, right??? thats all the space you need. Even unit complexes have a dedicated car wash bays.

    Agreed though, i would never use one.

    as for service, when i got my first service done before xmas, they actually washed it for me free of charge. nothing was built in either because it was a free service.

    and previously over the years when i wanted a service loaner i got one free of charge, but they did ask that in return you top the fuel back to the original level

  • Duck

    I don’t see how the commodore’s interior is that bad. Quality wise. Sure I’ll admit it’s no way near perfect! But the quality of materials are better to most japanese cars! Nearly bloody everything is plastic. Like the bloody Mitsubishi Triton for example! The Commodore’s iinterior is still liveable and comfortable. Though as I know and others will know that is the start of nearly every cycle of a commodore the first model has always the average feel about it. Like the start of VN. Very hard dash for example and then to the VS the dash material has changed and it is alot softer and nicer. And that goes with the same as VT-VZ. So hopefully the same as the VE onwards.

  • Dan

    Duck, you can’t compare a work hack’s interior to a passenger car. I reckon Honda has much better interior than a commodore!

  • JEKYL & HYDE

    duck,yes you can,and yes your right as well.the tritons interior door trims make the commodores look like a lexus.but be careful,i fear the c.a. boys LOVE their tritons.

  • The Realist

    Wheelnut Says:
    March 18th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
    “If I had $50K to spend on a Locally Built car I would most likely opt for either a new FPV F6 ute or a Maloo.. something that offers a bit more performance and excitement”

    And what do you do with this performance and excitement on Aussie roads?

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Realist the same you and I do with M cars…………drive them one would think ;)

  • Duck

    Well they get (Holden) get used to the design of the car.

    And about the glovebox thing everybodys talking about, I’ll agree. Both my VN Commodore and VT Commodore Wagons glovebox’s hinge thing has snapped resulting to a broken glovebox. But I don’t care. It still goes back in and ‘clicks’ in. But hey they have both done heaps of kilometres with minimal ‘mechanical’ problems so I’m happy.

  • Duck

    It’s a very common thing with Commodores. The glovebox. But……..meh!

  • Zorro

    The VE is allready outdated, and only slightly better than the terrible Aurion.

  • Duck

    I’d have a VE Commodore over an Aurion anyday! Toyota’s large family cars have always been crap. Look at the Avalon!

  • Dan

    So have the Dynnydoors Duck, look at the VN!

  • Duck

    ^That’s one model though. Not all of them. My old VN is still reliable.

  • Dan

    ^Not, not just one. VB, VK, VP, VR, VS, V whatever. Not to mention Camira, as well as the recent Daewoo additions, Epica, Viva and so on.

    I reckon the Aurion looks heaps better than VE. If it was only RWD, and not FWD, I might even want to own it…

  • Simon

    Duck have you driven an Aurion?

  • Wheelnut

    Dan you say that we spam the Toyota threads with un justified ill-informed unsubstantiated comments.. comments that you say are based on nothing more than personal opinion

    Yet have you read half of the sh!t that you have left on the other Non-Toyota topics on this site lately?

    You are definitely the king of double standards

  • Duck

    Yes I have driven an aurion but with a slightly different exterior! ;)

  • Simon

    So are you suggesting a Kluger? I’m not sure I get you. Was that a yes or no?

  • Duck

    What else! A Camary of course!

  • The Realist

    Duck Says:
    March 20th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
    “I’d have a VE Commodore over an Aurion anyday! Toyota’s large family cars have always been crap. Look at the Avalon!”

    Yeah, the transmission and engine in the Omega is a class above the Aurion’s isn’t it…

  • http://greatcarcity.org/ framunse

    When you tell them that the V8 should only cost an extra $2000, they have every right to say “We can’t sell you the car you want.” Truth is, there are plenty of V8 Calais’ on the road.

  • John

    I’ve had a Calais V for 2 years now, and the only complaint I have is with the SAT Nav, and the noisy engine.
    In a word it is horrible.
    Needs to be touchscreen, and mounted higher up, so can follow it without neglecting the road.
    Engine is fine but noisy and makes a harsh sound rather than a smooth sophisticated one.
    I would buy another.
    PS What happems to Holden if GM goes belly up?
    Will the move of the GMH design team to Detroit mean a less Australianised Commodore”

  • Devil’s Advocate

    Shak Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    “Hey you can’t really bag Holden for things like quality and fit and finish. The german marques have had close to 200 years of experience and healthy cash flow. they also have many alliances with so many car companies(VW group).”

    200 years experience, what the??? Better get your facts straight. A big one is that cars haven’t been around for 200 years so how is that a reason/excuse?? Not to mention, Holden has been involved in the car industry longer than a Euro like BMW (as an example from my 5 minute web search). BMW didn’t start making cars until 1928 however Holden were trimming cars as far back as 1910, 6 years before BMW was even founded! As a company, James Alexander Holden opened his leather and saddlery business in 1856, 25 years BEFORE even Mercedes Benz came into existance. For further information Audi was founded in 1899 and VW not until 1938. So as a company, Holden have MORE experience than BMW, Mercedes Benz and VW/Audi, the very Euros you were referring to. I think you will need to find another reason/excuse. Plus I will not even get started on the alliances in the GM empire that Holden has/had access to… To quote a famous movie “you want the truth, you can’t handle the truth”. Blinkers can do that to some people!! ;-) TIC

  • Devil’s Advocate

    I forgot to mention, the only ‘alliance’ that is bigger than GM is Toyota. So in all honesty, Holden has a bigger manufacturer base to draw from than all of the euros. All the more reason why it should be better than it is.

  • Dan

    Well said Devil’s Advocate!

  • Wheelnut

    Devils Advocate I think you’ll fing that builing a Saddle let alone a Cobb & Co Coach is a little different to building a Modern Motor Car…

    I mean going by your “Logic” – if you can build a Dog Kennel then you obviously build a building similar to the Petronas Towers

  • Devil’s Advocate

    Ok, I will put it in a more logical way for you. I will add if you read my response correctly and thought about it without emotion you should have picked it up. Here it goes anyway.

    One of the main issues people are commenting on is interior fit and finish correct? Well, Holden have been finishing/trimming CAR interiors since 1910. That is still longer than many car companies have been in existance. You would think that a company that has been making CAR interiors for 99 years would have it fairly well sorted by now wouldn’t you? Even if you can forgive them for the occasional poor quality of the plastics due to a limited budget etc, it still doesn’t excuse the poor fit with un-even gaps etc that still seems to afflict the VE.

    On a serious note thank you Wheelnut for being on my side however WRT Shak’s comment. Your response demonstrates you agree that any pre-car experience that the “200 year old european car companies” have doesn’t mean squat. :-)

  • Bavarian Missile (.)(.)

    Devil you may not accept Holdens fit and finish as being good, thats your opinion but my opinion is its a whole heap better than its parent company GM.

    Not bad considering its coming out of such a small populated Country dont you think ?

    I have always believed the Euros set the level of quality decades ago but those like GM and Ford dont choose to compare or sell their cars against them all.

    Remember not all of the Euro manufacturers make good quality cars just as all the Japs dont also thats got nothing to do with the age of the companies either,its all about the market each targets.

    After all that Im going to say Fords quality is a little better here in Australia and better again in those made for Europe. Doesnt mean Holdens is crap though!

    My personal opinion ok……….

  • Wheelnut

    Yes but back then the interiors etc were all handcrafted from wood then covered in handstittche leather etc and the bodies/panels were all handmade etc in the one location

    Whereas with the majority of Today’s cars the Dash is made by one external supplier; the door inserts by another; the centre console by another; and the seats by another; as are the door panels the gearbox the engine the diff the suspension the brakes etc

    In relation to the interior most of the components are plastic which cut formed and made by plastic ijetction vacuum sealed moulding machines.

    Plastic which reacts to temperature they expand and contract etc which can have an impact on their shape size etc Therefore; you would expect to find a few gaps etc where parts don’t fit together perfectly.. Afterall we’re talking about a Holden Commodore/Statesman not an Aston Martin.

  • Devil’s Advocate

    I agree, the Commodore interior fit and finish is better than many from the US, however IMHO it is still not up to the standard of many cheaper products from GM Europe. Don’t get me wrong, I think that the Local products are some of the best value for money big cars in the world that are as rugged as they come. However they are not the “world beaters” in quality etc that many beat them up to be. It is good to be passionate, but people shouldn’t let emotion get in the way of reality. Sure, cars like the Commodore are some of the most rigid cars around with some really innovative design features, but it is some of the attention to detail where they fall behind. The local 4 are VERY good cars for such a small populous, but they are not the epitomy of automotive perfection that many blindly think they are.

    Also Wheelnut, I am NOT expecting them to be an Aston Martin(show me where I mentioned that expectation), or even a BMW (which have gone downhill BIG time of late with their interior plasic quality). There goes the defensive reaction again! TIC. However I would expect them to be at least the equal of cars of similar price/class, or at least equal to cars almost half it’s price (VW Polo springs to mind, or even a Ford Fiesta). Even though the interior is bland and not my cup of tea, the Toyota Aurion interior fit is clearly better than the Commodore. Even Ford is showing Holden the way to fit an interior. It may not be a better design, but it fits together a lot neater. You can’t get any more fair than comparing an Australian made car to another Australian made car. They are even similar in price and in the same class. If Ford and Toyota can improve the fit of their interiors to suit our tough conditions, why can’t Holden?? They have the capability, they have proven it with some of the fantastic engineering work done on their own with the chassis/body of the Commodore. IMHO their popularity have made them arrogant/lazy and seem to rely on their reputation rather than trying to make the best car in the world at it’s price point, which they clearly have the potential to do. Attention to detail doesn’t cost a lot, and if other companies can do it on equal or cheaper cars, why can’t Holden? Being a small local manufacturer (that is part of the second largest car empire with a HUGE experience base to draw off) is no excuse….

  • ben

    Why buy one of these when u can have a G6E Turbo? It got a higher rating in a leading nz car mag then the new XF Jaguar. N its abit off topic, but I cant help myself lol, Ive heard a VZ Calai with a sports exhaust on it, N it litraly sounds like an old EH Holden with a hotdog on it, so horrible. It was a V6 tho, that may explain it. But the G6E Turbo is a much smater buy

  • franz chong

    Why but one of these when u can have a Mercedes C200 Kompressor or an Audi A4 2.0 Litre in much the same price bracket and get the extra five or more grand back when you sell it years down the track.
    I mean who CAN REALLY afford to run a V6 or V8 these days?

  • Daniel

    I own a Holden Calais, very nice car, Interior Looks good however the quality of interior assembly is terrible. My Calais has travelled 100,000 km’s and it has a range of different rattles in the rear door trim which drives me insaine. I have driven a range of different Toyota vehicles (Standard Aurion, Camry & Kluger). Now, there interior’s may not have everything a Calais or G6 has but the qality is so much better, It feels very solid, Quiet too.

    When you consider the amount of money you part with when you buy a Calais or G6 and then compare that to the amount of money you would spend on a base Aurion it doesnt make sence. The base Aurion is so much cheaper yet the interior quality is better. hmmm……… Holden, Ford, Does this make sence to you?

    Oh, By the way. Im not saying that Holden is better than Ford or Ford is better than Holden. On that subject I think Ford and Holden are the same.

    This is just my opinion.

    • Mav

      Daniel – couldnt agree more. I bought a base AT-x because it was $1000s cheaper than the base of Ford or Holden.

      It handles good – unless u throw it reallllllllllly hard into a corner – but lets be honest how often do you do that in a new car? Holden and Ford may in some respect do it better but with a harsher ride.

      Is rear wheel drive better – sure is. Is it worth $5000 – no! Only people that want to do silly things like burnouts and go sideways really demand it.

      On another point, the VE Omega is plain bad value. It has a old crap VT 4 speed auto with updated electronics to cover its bad shift quality and age. It has a 175KW engine which was a cheap of Holdne pushing people int the higher priced modes. It guzzles fuel like an Irishman drinking beer and is over 2 seconds slower than falcon or Aurion 0-100. Only a die hard dedicated Holdne nut would buy a base Omega. It may handle better than an Aurion but he Aurion will be 1km away before you ever realise that – in real life. In perspective – you need to by minimum SV6 and thats big biscuits.

      I bought an Aurion for safety as neither Ford nor Holden (even with the $5000 premium on price) offer side and curtain airbags as standard – there an additional $ option. Aurion – std.

      All cars have their faults, but no-one can honestly say the base falcon or base holden is $5000 (or more) better than the Aurion.

      • Shak

        A base Omega is 36k and the AT-x is 35 so where did you find this invisible $5000. Fair enough it is a bit slower but you get the bags as standard and i dont think the Aurion has a 5 star rating. Im not Toyota bashing, just pointing out the flaws in your Holden bashing.

  • lolita

    i agree, Aurion would be about 500-1000m away from a base omega 3.6L including the new 3.0L piece of crap, for sure, i have seen these things in action it mashes a stupid V6 commodore with ease, its really a shame, but at the same time a base 3.8L piece of crap push-rod tends to be a little quicker than base omega…..

    on the other hand …. aurion would have no chance with a falcon xt , whether its a BA or a BF or an FG, once Aurion hits 120km/h…. a Falcon will start to pull away , once a Falcon arrives at 200km/h , aurion is physically 100m behind a falcon, and has no chance to close the gap.

    these are the facts , where TORQUE plays the big part at pushing and turning those gears of a falcon.

    this is quite strange.

    at the end of the day, a falcon may have 5 , 10 or 15kw less …. but in essence the engine is a TORQUE monster ….. plus all that torque is produced in a low rpm range, hence the reason for a 3.23 diff ratio and lower gearing….

    a 6 speed ZF does not improve much, makes a car feel more alert, but in reality its only 0.5 of a 100th of 1 second faster than a 4 speeder….

    and in a 20km/h roll start a stock ba xt 2002 can beat a brand new FG XT 5 or 6 speed model to 100, to 120, to 160 and onwards.

    they are simply the same cars, with identical DNA, just different skin and sheet metal for the FG.

    the FG would have to make 220-230kW of power and more torque than 391Nm or regular fuel in order to actually PULL AWAY from a stock BA XT, or even AUII AUIII.

    we are talking calculations that required 440Nm at least, to 220kW of power to pull away from its brother BA XT, BF XT and all 4.0L N/A models in between.

    on the other hand a BA XT 4.0L has more power across the folliwing RPM range, from 600-5000rpm it has more power than FG XT 4.0.

    it has more torque from 600 to 2800rpm than FG XT, and more torque between 3500-5000rpm than FG XT.

    FG XT only pokes 391Nm at 3250rpm beating XT by 11Nm, but after than BA takes over.

    but once BA XT gets over approx 5500rpm, the BG XT takes over and that is where it shines, but in reality only gives you 1-3 or sometimes 5% better performance, so its not worth it, who pushes their car past 6000rpm every day?

    so a cheap BA XT 4.0L 2002-2005 is a way to go;)

    • Golfschwein

      Wow, you obviously know a lot about gearing.

      • Shak

        This person seems to have to many prohibited substances in their system to even know what car they are posting about. Lolita dont ever post on here again becasue your just plain worng.

  • sarah

    it depends how you see lolita, she probably loves her BFII Fairmont Ghia 5.4L 6 speed ZF that she can not take that torque out of her mind that starts at idle and goes strongly trough 3500-4000rpm range beating every V8 GM has ever produced for drive-ability, plus when in 6 speed ZF configuration a BFII Fairmont Ghia 5.4L 3V is indeed a better car to drive than any product of GM holden so far. Even supercharged 6.2L V8s would die in shame when it comes for part throttle response of an average 3V 5.4L discontinued V8 engine, that thing just keeps on hauling when you drive it on the torque curve and the 6 speed ZF couple with 2.53:1 final drive does a great job and it feels like a car with an 8L V8 rather than 5.4L, no wonder why people are amazed with lolitas BFII Ghia when they sit in the front passenger seat, the car feels solid, hard yet refined and too smooth for a car that you can buy now for $25000 yet has equal feel and refinement as a $400000 vehicle.
    In this case this Calais shown here is a beautiful car, but BFII Fairmont Ghia 5.4 indeed feels stronger from idle or around 600rpm to 3800-4000rpm.

    After 4000rpm it sill moves, but the 6.0L L76 aka L98 will simply pull away and beat the performance of BFII 5.4L 3V by at least 25-30%.

    But as far as anything below 4000rpm is concerned, the BFII Fairmont Ghia 5.4L 3V is a car to buy and for you to enjoy cruising, long trips in.

    The speed limits are 40, 50, 60, 80 up to 110km/h, all you need is part throttle in this 5.4L car configured with 6 speed ZF and you\’ll see how those conservative 230kW feel like 320kW in a boosted XR6 Turbo and how its 500Nm at 3500rpm feel like 700Nm+. Even my G6E Turbo feels kind of thin and weak, but is quicker than BFII Ghia, but does not provide that instant burst of power and torque that 5.4L 3V 230kW/500Nm V8 can deliver with 6 speed ZF.

    sarah r

  • franz chong

    don’t buy one of these.Now I know why the Chinese and Asians in this sector buy Mercedes/BMW and AUDI or the cheaper Honda/Mazda and Subaru offerings and that is better resale values and quality.They also know when it comes till to sell the cars will be worth more.Just out of interest I saw a 2003/04 C180 for twenty four grand which means in six years that would have lost about 40 something grand in depreciation in that time.How much would a Calais from the same era be worth now.

  • lolita

    the other day i looked at a 2008 6.0l calais for $24000

    there was a nice ba fairmont 5.4 for $10500

    i picked up a fairmont for a mate, its just about 100% on driveability and comfort with a $24000 VE 6.0 that is technically a pretty good package more like a $250,000 car in a $45000-50000 vehicle.

    but i still picked up a fairmont for ten grand