Hyundai Genesis wins Canadian Car of the Year
February 12, 2009 by Matt Brogan
The 2009 Hyundai Genesis was today named Canadian Car of the Year by the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) – the first time a Korean manufacturer has won the prestigious award.
The Genesis was first named Best New Luxury Vehicle (under $50,000 CAD) and defeated several other well-known luxury brands to win its category and become eligible for the overall Car of the Year award. In rigorous testing, the Genesis surpassed competitors such as the Audi A3, Acura TL (Honda Accord) and Infiniti G37X when areas such as engine refinement, ride comfort, exterior styling, visibility, roominess and comfort were evaluated.
Hyundai’s Genesis has received many accolades since its arrival in the marketplace. Among its accomplishments, the Genesis has also been recognised as North American Car of the Year, and its all-new 4.6 litre Tau V8 engine was named one of “Ward’s 10 Best Engines” for 2009, marking the first time a Hyundai engine has appeared on the prestigious Ward’s list.
Tags: Hyundai Genesis
The silent achiever for so long,see activity does create results and they just keep getting better for Hyundai!
Nice job !
The Canadian market i am told has the most similar to Australia. The Kia Rondo became the number one seller for Kia in Canada not long after its release. Could we assume the same might happen if Hyundai release the Genesis here?
The Salesman,
Just as well they don’t import the G6E Turbo into Canada.
Line them up together and that’ll be the measure of the Korean.
Let me see, my first and only Korean, (since sold) the current model Hyundai Sante Fe 2.2 crdi. Where would you like me to start
The alarming oil consumption, the appalling handling and steering, the very lathargic open road performance…very very ordinary it was.
Anyone who thinks this Genesis is up with an S Class Merc or a Lexus LS460 is absolutly dreaming, its not even remotely in the same league, even a G6ET would show it up in so many ways.
All previous attempts by Hyundai to build a luxury car have been flops with absolutly appalling re-sale, history will repeat, IMO.
Buck
Did you do a test drive in the Santa Fe before you bought it? You wouldn’t pick up the oil consumption of course but did you not notice the steering and handling were appalling?
Buck,
It appears the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada dissagre with you. Maybe you should drop them a line and tell them they are wrong
Dadd,
I made the mistake of just evaluating it in average conditions around the city.
Its open road performance is very lathargic and when pushed hard its handling is just appalling, high centre of gravity excessive body roll, steering loads up and understeers very badly. Brakes were below average, the auto gearbox seemed to struggle with the vehicles own weight.
I really have my doubts how long the auto would last if you towed anything meaningful with it, I only used it to tow the jetski which has an all up weight on trailer of 450kg and it seemed to struggle with that.
You can’t have rubbish like that parked next to a Typhoon in your garage, the performance is as if they came from a different planet, let alone a different country.
The Sante Fe seemed like a good idea at the time but only lasted 11 months before complete contempt set in. I doubt I’ll ever own another Hyundai.
The Salesman,
Clearly this award is based on new cars released into Canada in the last twelve months.
If a top of the line Lexus or Mercedes-benz had met that new entrant criteria or indeed if the G6ET had either, the Genesis would have been Excedus, which is precisely what I predict will happen to re-sale values.
Hyundai have consistently shown an inability to build a true luxury vehicle, you don’t really imagine the same type of engineers have suddenly managed to re-invent the wheel do you ?
Perhaps the fact you sell them has something to do with your natural enthusiasm, higher potential commissions down the track creating natural bias ?
Buck,
I don’t believe it is possible to re create the wheel, but it is not hard to copy. Hyundai should have your full support, who else can give you German quality, Japanese technology and all at a Korean price?
I don’t sell cars on this site. Its just a name Buck (not your real name I am sure) I do not benefit financially in any way.
“Acura TL (Honda Accord)”
The Acura TL isn’t a Honda Accord. The Honda Accord is simply the Honda Accord in America and Canada. The Acura TL sits between the TSX and RL (Euro and Legend, respectively). There is no equivalent for Honda.
Buck – did you get one of the early crdis’?
I think the Genesis like the Sclass, Lexus and 7 series belongs to the luxo barge category where the parameters for evaluation are somewhat different than for the average punter.
Hyundai do not hide they copy other’s design and engineering and like the Japanese did through the 70s,80s and 90s evolve and improve.
i have the Santa Fe CRDI in Elite guise and again considering the evaluation parameters as a family 7 seater with some offroad capability (unsealed & some beach work) it has been excellent. The only failing I have is the rebound calibration of the front suspension in certain conditions.
Oil consumption in diesels can be surprising – high mileage Golf tdis’ will use a litre every 10000km That does not mean one condemns the whole package.
The Genesis has its place but Hyundai Australia obviously feel it doesn’t fit in Oz yet because of dated perceptions of the brand. (I never thought I would end up owning one!)
The Salesman,
I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I think the Sante Fe falls well below the quality of the Germans and for that matter the best of the Japaneese.
John from Perth,
Yes it was an early example, oil consumption was about half a litre every 3,000km’s, which I think is a concern, but it was the other concerns i’ve noted above that put me off it.
I know there’s quite a price difference but really, vehicles like the Lexus RX350, or the new Volvo XC60 or Audi Q5 are vastly better than a Sante Fe, IMO, so please salesman don’t try and kid us Hyundai offer German quality at affordable prices…I’m not buying it… what you get in my experience is a very average soft roader at an average price, (after all they’re certainly no bargain).
Haha, Hyundai has a looooong way to go before it is directly compared to the premium brands (merc, BMW, Lexus, Audi etc), if at all. Yes, it is obvious they have improved in the last decade, but they went from rubbish to plain average at the moment. I think some people are dreaming and getting well ahead of themselves.
Long way to go hey………..seems they have already won this award and as the story says,it won against Audi !
This isnt just Salesmans opinion it is a fact if you read the story.
Japs only copied the Germans quality so what do you think the Koreans are going to do?
Next time your local Motor Show comes to town do your self a favor and visit the Hyundai stand .I did last year with Golfy and was VERY surprised at the finish of the i130 ,I would have one !
Mercedes-Benz S Class or Hyundai Genesis ?
Audi Q5 or Hyundai Sante Fe ?
Lets get real here, for 99.9% of the population if money was not a consideration these questions would be absolutly no brainers.
What’s that old saying your mother taught you…oh yes, “you get what you pay for” and “there’s no such thing as a free lunch”
If we all backed companies that merely copy each other, as is suggested above, we’d all be driving Model T Ford’s, LOL.
Companies that invest really serious money into R & D and invent things are the ones that really deserve our support.
Mercedes-benz for example has invented an absolute host of new technology into their S Class’s over the years, from crumple zones, to antilock brakes, dynamic stability control and many other things we take for granted.
Hyundai Genesis looks like a cheap rip-off of a Mecedes-benz S Class or Lexus LS460.
You can have the genuine article, the “real Mckoy” or the cheap and fake Korean copy, its really as simple as that.
Seems its all about Badge snobbery then nothing to do with what car is better.
So wonder what you thought when Lexus launched its self against the Germans 20 years ago Buck ?
Right, I wouldn’t always trust what the awards say, didn’t the VN commodore and EA falcon win Wheels COTY awards back in the day?
Most likely the Hyundai scored big on the value for money stakes, which obviously isn’t surprising given the Nissan and Honda competiton. As far as prestige and badge goes, as that’s what you are also paying for with any of the premium brands like Merc, Hyundai’s got none.
And I agree with Buck, I’d rather have the original than the copied imitation…
Oh, and not hard surpassing Audi A3, for a car of different segment that the genesis is meant to be. A3 = Audi’s version of econobox. Genesis is full luxury from Hyundai. Of course the genesis will be better equipped.
You know, it actually helps if you read the fine detail and use logic.
“So wonder what you thought when Lexus launched its self against the Germans 20 years ago Buck ?”
They set their goals much higher than Hyundai did (ie. Merc S Class, BMW 7), and surpassed the competition. Here, hyundai is running against a Honda and a Nissan… oh, and econobox Audi. Can’t say they’re putting much effort into it.
Note to self ” Dan doesnt like Mazdas or Hyundai’s!”
Dan where does it say Hyundai are after the luxury market?
Just like your rant against the Mazda MPS yesterday and not liking FWD I think we all understand you dont think Hyundai are going to be market leaders.
Quote “And I agree with Buck, I’d rather have the original than the copied imitation…”
hahaha I fell off my chair when I read that piece of irony!
Seriously old lady, buy some glasses and learn to READ!
1. Quoting the article: “The Genesis was first named Best New Luxury Vehicle” Oh snap!
2. I lost count of how many times I posted on CA that Hyundai are doing a good job in improving the quality of their cars, however they are no where near excellence, yet. I don’t hate Hyundai, I even said I liked their coupe! So I have no idea what you are on about.
It would be nice if your replies were actually valid for a change, because so far it seems like you are constantly either mis-reading my posts, or reading what you want to read, and not what’s actually written.
Had to make comment as Spam word was >>> Hyundai<<<<<<
Dan, really?? At what point does a BMW or Mercedes Benz become a luxury car over an executive vehicle?? Admitedly in Australia they are considered that way, but everywhere else they are executives. Luxury belongs to RR, Bentley & Maybach.
Hyundai have only been doing what Toyota has been doing since the 60’s, reverse engineering the leaders in the segment and trying to take out any rough edges. LS400 was an exercise in reverse engineering that fell shy of the mark, as has IS (in all guizes) RX & LX, and Toyota’s T150 /sorry Tundra. THese were all good first attempts but all still need time to knock off the best in class. This is exactly the same as the Genesis.
BTW Dan you did get one thing right, Hyundai didn’t set their sights for the Germans. They only have one target, and that one has a bullseye shaped like a T in a circle
Quote “They set their goals much higher than Hyundai did (ie. Merc S Class, BMW 7), and surpassed the competition. Here, hyundai is running against a Honda and a Nissan… oh, and econobox Audi. Can’t say they’re putting much effort into it.
So I should have qualified Luxury better JUST FOR YOU. Not chasing the top end end Luxury market.Oh and whats wrong with Honda ,the Infiniti G37X,the same car they put up against the BMW 335I and Audis A5,yeah I guess this is much of a Nissan as Lexus is Toyota .
Ive reported you for the name calling…..very mature.
Name calling? You’re much older than me (in your 50s I gathered), and I would have thought you are a lady, or am I mistaken?
I don’t think Toyota is reverse engineering anything these days, not for the lest few decades at least. In fact they have introduced technology which others have copied since on a massive scale. Toyota was one of the first, if not the first to introduce satnav in their vehicles in late 80s. Not to mention a reversing camera in 1991.
Sorry for letting facts get in the way of a good story my dear toyo bashers, but facts are facts. :)
50s hey………….hahahahaha ! What would make you think that?
Seems your scraping the bottom of the barrel if there the only facts that innovative Toyota can drag up,gadgets!
You wrote somewhere on here you’ve been working on your falcon for 30 years or so. I assumed you’d do it from mid 20s onwards for ease of calculation, or is it too young? 60? Meh, what’s the difference.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel? Ok then… I think you have run out of arguments to say. Other than the engine itself really, everything in cars is gadgets anyway. I guess you’ve never really had a solid argument, as you make a generalised wild claim, but never go into actual details as to what they actually ripped off. You never are specific, hence you’ve never been able to back your claim. I’ve noticed that. Hence your opinions don’t mean much to me. Good for a laugh though…
You assumed wrong then didnt you .Have owned the car since I was 19 years old . Yes it was my daily driver for a few months but got garaged when I bought my first BMW months latter. Not close to my 50s sorry!
Lats go back to the beginning ,”The 2009 Hyundai Genesis was today named Canadian Car of the Year by the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada”
Im glad you think Im funny,sorry Im chatting to Jeff Ash at the moment on FB bout you,back later !
LOL! Not funny, sad rather… lots of facepalm moments.
I’m flattered I make such an impact on you though, for you to be discussing me with others, but who’s Jeff Ash? I feel like I should repay the favour and speak with a Joe Bloggs about you as well. And maybe John Smith would be interested too. But I got better things to do, so forgive me my dear.
And back on topic, congratulations hyundai!!!
Oh dear look at the storm I brewed up.
Look, lets agree the Hyundai Genesis is a reasonable attempt to copy other luxury cars, Okay. There, everyone happy now ? We can all sleep better this weekend.
Next Hyundai will want to be copying the FPV F6. Good luck, I like to see them try that would be a good laugh.
Be careful Buck, or next time Bavaria will come out with her usual wild claims about Hyundai being better than a Ferrari lol!
I thought you were a drifter Dan ? C-RED ring any bells ? Thats ok he doesn’t know you either………..
I doubt Hyundai will want to copy the F-6,they are after a large market not a small specialised section. Besides good luck trying to copy Ford Australia’s awesome I-6.
LOL! I know C-red. I’ve never shopped there though, I have my own places to shop and tune my car at. Sorry for disappointing you. I honestly do not care for some ‘Jeff Ash’ fellow… he may be your hero, but to me he’s another Joe Bloggs.
Just for the info Dan, Toyota are still reverse engineering vehicles and componentry. That’s fact.
What is also Fact though, is “So is EVERYBODY else”!! Make no mistake, is goes on everywhere in every industry and only a fool wouldn’t do it.
Righto… so what is your point Frontman??
You havent disappointed me Dan just enforced what I suspected babe!
Buck somethings cant be copied,like Fords fantastic inline 6!
Not much just responding to your comment as C&P’d to remind you what you said :-)
["I don’t think Toyota is reverse engineering anything these days, not for the lest few decades at least. In fact they have introduced technology which others have copied since on a massive scale. Toyota was one of the first, if not the first to introduce satnav in their vehicles in late 80s. Not to mention a reversing camera in 1991.
Sorry for letting facts get in the way of a good story my dear toyo bashers, but facts are facts. :) "]
“Buck somethings cant be copied,like Fords fantastic inline 6! ”
Correction, something are not worth being copied, like Fords pathetic inline 6. :) The XD to AU inline 6 was a pinnacle of engineering lol!
“You havent disappointed me Dan just enforced what I suspected babe!”
No point suspecting anything. They don’t have a monopoly you know… I could have told you I don’t go to C-red in the very beginning if you bothered to ask babe!
Right Frontman, so you are reinforcing my point then, thank you very much. So Toyota invents something, and others copy it. Thank you for clarifying that point mate, I think we’re now on the same page. Communication was a bit rusty there lol!
Never said it was the pinnacle of engineering Dan,it is one of the worlds best I-6s though .Does the word NIZPRO mean anything to you!
I wasnt after info on where you shopped Dan.
Best I6 in terms of what? I had an old XF Falcon as my first bomb, it was bloody awesome at creating artwork out of oil stains on my garage floor lol!
I can think of dozens of much better I6 engines out there. I’m amazed at your comment, almost to a point where I’m thinking you’re actually taking the piss out of poor old Falcon 4 litre lol!
Having said that, the new 4 litre is heaps better than the old one, but dad still swears at it having to clean up the oil stains off his driveway, even though the car is only 12 months old! I can still think of better I6 engines out there though.
So… Jeff Whatsisname never heard of me, yet you got some info out of him about me? I’m honestly puzzled…
Actually check your info on the reverse camera because IIRC it was first shown on a Mercedes concept vehicle in the seventies. But yes Hyundai has reversed engineered a Camry V6. They called it a Granduer. Now what is it exactly that Toyota designed?? Their reverse camera came from Panasonic didn’t it?? Thats owned by Toyota but it’s not actually Toyota, even further removed than Lexus me thinks….. :-)
I’m not talking concepts mate! Production cars. If you’re gonna talk concepts, next we’ll argue who made the first inter-gallactic ’spaceship’ Startrek-spec haha.
And your ‘panasonic’ argument is flawed. 100% of manufacturers source a great portion of parts and materials from outsiders. My argument still stands. Toyota was the first to introduce these things into production vehicles. Fantasy and concepts you can leave to the loser’s club…
Ill store that argument for the next Ford I6 article Dan,cause I dont want to go further into why its so good in case I lose you!
Quote: “Haha, Hyundai has a looooong way to go before it is directly compared to the premium brands (Merc, BMW, Audi etc)”
Since when has Hyundai ever made an announcement that they are targetting the more establishe prestigious luxury brands? They don;t have anything that is the same size or offers the same performance as an M5 or an SLK and therefore shouldn’t be compared to them..
They are aiming at the entry level-mid level market and when you look at thir range; they offer considerable value for money partiocularly when compared to some of the more well known rivals.. the fact their share of the market has steadily increased over the last coule of months whilst their rivals have decreased confirms this.
Wheelnut, one of the members of your ‘camp’ reckons they’re beating Audi (a premium brand), you yourself reckon they don’t. Make up your mind on where you stand already :)
Bavaria, I’m looking forward to it :)
Whether or not certain people think that a relatively basic car is a rival to or is aiming at a car with more luxury; features or performance etc doesn’t really matter..
what matters is what car the car manufacturer in question is aiming their car at or which car they claim it to be a rival to..
when the car is unveiled for the first time the CEO of the car company makes a statement which outlines which demographic the car will be aimed at as well as which cars that are curently available on the market they expect it to go up against in terms of performance size and price etc.
That way when it turns out that the car wasn’t as good as what the car manufacturer said it would be can its critics make comments about how bad the car is etc because they have the official media release as a reference – Toyota’s statement as to how good the Aurion would be is a good example
And as far as I am aware Hyundai haven’t made such outrageous claims.
BTW Dan – By winning the Canadian Car of The Year Award not only did the Genesis beat the Audi A3 but it beat every other new car from every other manufacturer that was release in Canada over the previous 12 months.
It’s like when the VE Commodore won the Wheels car of the year a couple of years ago it also beat other cars from AUdi BMW and even Lexus
I believe that was the point that BM was trying to make..
I know what you mean, The point I was trying to make is that all the COTY awards don’t always get it right as it turns out down the line, like with the VN commo and EA falcon…
One thing I personally have an issue with when it comes to a COTY award is the fact that, one car wins above all, even though they are all in different segments and made for different purposes. But then they pick the overall winner, which in my opinion is just bullcrap!
Then again there’s others that do split it up between categories. This appears to be the case with this canadian coty, as it specifies the Hyundai is the best new luxury vehicle under 50K in 08. I see you mentioned how coty awards include cars that were released in the year in question. Now think about this further. Luxury cars under 50K released in 2008 year. That automatically excludes the big prestige guys BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc. The 3 series was released in 05. The C class was in 07. The IS was in 05. Audi’s A4 was released in 08 though, so that got owned, however maybe it was in a differnt category, above 50K perhaps, who knows. Other models from these brands also were released at different times. What I’m trying to say is, with competition like Honda and Nissan in the contest, it wasn’t much of a challenge for this car to win.
But… win is a win, so congrats lol!
LOL Dan, yes it was obviously a lean year for new luxury cars under $50K in Canada, but the biggest joke of all is you can’t really build a true world class luxury car for under $50K, its just not possible, so the award is something of an oxymoron right from the outset.
Just check out the price of real world class luxury cars, Mercedes-benz S Class, Lexus LS460 to name just two.
Perhaps the Canadian award needs to be retitled, the best attempt to fake real luxury at under $50K ?…now that’s what I call stirring the pot, LOL.
Dan read the article again – it says:
The Genesis was first named Best New Luxury Vehicle (under $50,000 CAD) and defeated several other well-known luxury brands to win its category and become eligible for the overall Car of the Year award.
Which means that teh Genesis initially won the best car in its class [Luxury Cars under $50K] which then meant it was through to the “final round” wherw it would compete agianst the best car from other classes including Luxury Cars over $50K and eventually be named the best Car Of The Year overall.
The thing is that these days the lines between the classes are somewhat blurred as different people evaluate cars differently and base their decisions on different criteria etc..
So even though someone may initially be looking at a $50k+ Luxury car such as a Lexus they could end up buying a sub $50K Luxury car such as the Genesis.. or they may initially be after a Coupe but end up with a Sedan a Ute or a Crossover Vehicle.
The thing is regardless of price performance or body style cars are essentially designed as a form of transport and all of them are out there trying to appear as the best value for mney inorder to win your custom
You lost me Wheelnut. If I’m after a ute, I buy a ute, and not a convertible. If I’m after a 4WD, I don’t buy a luxury sedan. If I’m after a sports car, I don’t buy an econobox. Blending all these categories is senseless. If you believe all cars should be looked at as items that get you from a to b, you’re very well mistaken.
That may be so Dan; However; there are the odd occassions where someone goes out to buy a Toyota Corolla for example and comes back with an AWD EVO Lancer or an SS Ute.
Because whilst [on paper at least] the Corolla may have appeared to be the best car for them.. when they were at the dealerships they may have found a car which ended up being: more suitable to their needs; more within their price range; better features better safety better performance or better value for money etc.. a car which they never would have considered before taking it for a test drive.
It’s the same when you go out with the intention to buy an LG Television and come back with a BOSE Lifestyle system.
LOL @ odd occasions. Now how odd are they? One in a million? Those are three different cars in different segements, for totaly different buyers again. A potential corrolla buyer with a budget of 20K isn’t even going to consider spending 65K on an evo. Or an SS ute. At a point you decide that you need a car, you know what your needs are roughly, and that automatically falls within a segment. Sure there may be a blur between two segments such as an econobox and a small softroader for example. But here you are giving examples of two extreme segments which I find very unlikely to be considered and compared to side by side. If you were buying a corolla segment car, you will care for economy and won’t care for performance. And vice versa for the evo and SS. Different cars, differnt budgets, differnt purposes, different characteristics. COmpare apples with apples mate. Corrolla type car does certain things better than the evo or the SS, and vice versa the evo or SS does other things beter than the corolla. So which one is better?? None is better, because opinions will differ depending on your needs and what you value in the car most. How you can go about ocmparing them all on an equal base is beyond ridiculous.
Wheelnut,
You ae not exactlly into the workings of retail are you??
starting with a corolla and walking out with an SS ute is a little different to running to the shop for milk and also grabbing a mars bar in the impulse rack at the checkout
Also you are gonna look pretty silly after getting home with your Bose speakers with out a TV to plug them into
Yeah, the 50K difference between corolla and evo is just loose change lol! Or might as well grab both haha.
And by te way, from my experience Bose speakers are way too over-rated haha. Ask any audiophile what they think of their products…
Quote: [Dan]: “A potential corrolla buyer with a budget of 20K isn’t even going to consider spending 65K on an evo.”
I didn’t mention what budget theperson who was planning to buy the Corolla had to spend.. all I said was that s/he may have thought that the Corolla was the car for him/her; or the car that s.he wanted – based on nothing more than it’s reputation for reliability.. but after taking it and other cars for a test drive may have found a car that s/he didn’t even consider before..
S/he may have seen the Evo [for example] taken it for a test drive fallen in love and as its a purchase thet they don’t make that often [8-10 years] they may have decided to “bugger the budget” and spoil themselves.. so its not as weird as you might think,
Some people are known to really loose themselves when buying a new home car or entertaimnment equipment etc. Instead of buying a cheese burger decide to order one with the lot. That is my point
Quote Dan: And by te way, from my experience Bose speakers are way too over-rated haha. Ask any audiophile what they think of their products…
So what youre saying is that Bose are the Audio Ewuivalent of Toyota/Lexus.. Gimme a Break!
If that’s the case then why are a number of car companies fitting recognised premium brand sound sytems such as BOSE as standard equipment to a number of their cars? – that is both those who make prestigous luxury cars as wellas those who make econo-boxes.
People know how good Bose products are and are now after Home Theatre Quality Sound in their cars which the Radio-Shack stuff can’t provide.
LOL! Don’t get me started on Bose. Reason why they put Bose systems in their cars is to make them sound fancy to the usual car buyer with no friggin idea, just a selling point. Ask any true audiophile out there what their opinion is on Bose, and how cheap quality materials they use to build their speakers and your eyes will open up to the reality that nowadays the only thing that Bose has got going for itself is its name and past reputation. They were awesome back in the day. Now they’re nothing more than overpriced heap of crap. You can actually build a Bose speaker out of 10 cent materials from Audio Shack, it’s been done before. Seriously, go around all audiophile forums out there and check out what people’s opinions are on them. I nearly bought one of those lifestyle systems for my house purely for the name. Luckily I went to a store which had it set up already. The sound quality was nowhere near good enough to justify the 8K price tag. Decided to go with something else instead. And I’ve heard those Bose car systems in various cars (Mazda, Audi), and mate, I wasn’t impressed at all.
And back on topic, I simply don’t agree with your comment about people choosing between a 20K car and an 80K car like they do between a cheeseburger and one with the lot. I don’t even feel like arguing on that point, it’s just so absolutely retarded. The point is, there is no logic in comparing a 20K car to an 80K car, if you still believe it makes sense to, then you got rocks in your head mate. Different cars, different segments, no comparison. Period.