Toyota forecasts US$4.95 billion loss
February 7, 2009 by David Twomey
Plunging sales in North America and Europe have prompted Toyota Motor Corporation to offer its gloomiest yet forecast, projecting an annual loss three times greater than earlier suggested.
At the same time it said it was looking to cut $5.5 billion in cost, including from its research and development and marketing budgets .
The world’s largest carmaker now says its first annual operating loss in seven decades will be ¥450 billion (US$4.95 billion) for the financial year that ends March 31.
The deteriorating outlook, included in a third-quarter report, comes just six weeks after Toyota scrapped a forecast for a fiscal year profit and projected a $1.65 billion operating loss.
The carmaker said it expects its global sales to tumble 17.87 per cent to 7.32 million units. That’s against December’s forecast of 7.54 million vehicles and last year’s tally of 8.91 million.
Toyota also will record its first annual net loss since 1950: $3.85 billion. That contrasts with last year’s $18.9 billion net profit.
Toyota’s US sales plunged 15.4 per cent in 2008 compared with 2007, while overall US sales fell 18.0 per cent. Last month, Toyota sales slipped an additional 31.7 per cent, while overall US sales collapsed 37.1 percent.
At the same time, the yen’s rapid surge against a weakening US dollar lopped billions more off company profits.
“As the business expanded, there may be certain issues we didn’t pay enough attention to,” Executive Vice President Mitsuo Kinoshita said, in a rare admission of business error, while announcing results.
The story for Toyota has been similar in Europe where the region recorded an operating loss of US$476.9 million (¥43.4 billion), wiping out a profit of US$373.6 million the year before. European sales shrank 23.7 per cent in the quarter to 235,000 units.
Mr Kinoshita said Toyota will try to reduce fixed costs by 10 per cent, mostly by stalling plans to build a Prius factory in Mississippi and set up car plants in China, India and Brazil.
Toyota also will cut spending on marketing and r&d.
Last month, Japan’s Nikkei newspaper reported that Toyota was considering the elimination of 1000 full-time jobs in North America and Britain.
Said Mr Kinoshita: “Outside of Japan, we intend to make every possible effort to protect the jobs of our employees.”
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This is very grim news for Toyota.
There will be winners and losers with this economic trough, I think Hyundai in particular is going to come out the other end with a big spike in market share.
They don’t seem to be feeling it as much, though this may be because they aren’t as heavily reliant on the US market as the other manufacturers.
An almost $25 Billion turnaround in profits from last year?
Seems we should be talking about the Big 4, not just the US Big 3.
Why halt the building of the Prius factory in the US?
Hasn\’t toyota repeatedly announced that they can\’t build Hybrids fast enough?
It shows that every company gets fat & complacent during the good times, then has to take drastic action to correct their mistakes.
Reduced marketing, R&D, & cancelling new factories, etc
Yes there taking a loss just like evryone else.No one is safe from these times.But unlike GM there not going bunkrupt and need money from tax payers to stay afloat not yet anyway
And the impact on their share price from this annoucement?
The highest price in 3 months… lol wtf?!
Hopefully this will wake them up. It’s not enough to make boring fridges. Yes, quite reliable machines but everything can be reliable if not driven at its limit. As long as a car is made in Japan, I find them pretty good – Japanese-made Mazda, Subaru and Toyota should have pretty similar build qualities.
I bought a TRD Aurion, it’s quite a good car but the obvious fact is it should have been a RWD/AWD rather than a FWD. It’s not enough to pretend to be exciting. You have to build the car ground up to be exciting. The Corolla has so much plastic – it’s lost its appeal to me. RAV4 has become a big, bumbling joke with more grunt than grip. However Kluger is a fantastic car, Prado needs an update and Landcruiser is still the camel of the desert.
Bring back the Supras, Celicas and make all future TRD cars (if they are revived) RWD/AWD. That’s the only way you can keep your relevance with Gen Y.
Hyundai – Kia posted a 3.5% increase in sales from the US alone. The current economic crises seems to benefit the market for them. Kia is about to open their Georgia plant as well.
totota is about the richest car manufacturer anyway, so shouldn worry them to much, unlike ford and gm at the moment, plus toyota has some good but boring product at the moment..
Zorro, here’s an opportunity for you to test your maths skills.
Which number is higher, 39 billion dollars or 3.85 billion?
One was GM’s net loss, one is toyota’s net loss.
Salesman, whilst Hyundai and Kia have grown, don’t forget they are still fledglings at present and Korea itself is just starting to feel the global squeeze, they will be okay but don’t expect them to continue growing at that rate this year. (yes i’ll put a carton of crownies on it)
Osu811 Doesn’t mater how rich you are, if you have a global burn rate such as that without the parasital outgoing of the D3, then you have a huge problem. Do not forget that 150,000 people in one of Toyotas main manufacturing cties have lost their job in the last 6 months.
But the most amussing part of this is how much creative accounting has been going on?? At first they tone down their expected profit, then they call a small loss sack the ceo’s put in a new head and call a large loss!!! Will be interesting to see the full story come out.
RoFlmaTiC Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Try these maths turning round from +18.9bil to -3.95bil without the social costs and exorbanant union fees!!
Agreed Frontman,
No one is immune. Although with the introduction of five new models in Kia alone i think the spotlight will be on Kia allot this year. Plus economical pricing makes them attractive to customers wanting to downsize.
JJT,
A loss is a loss no matter what way you look at it. I agree Toyota has the knowledge, experience and wealth to move more swiftly to “adjust” and re size to fit the market more swiftly than others and keep an operating profit in doing so. This does not make them the be all and end all in the motoring world. It just makes them the smartest.
Honestly how can you NOT laugh at a company that revalues its assets down 40 odd billion from 150 billion to 110 billion.(Whilst liabilities remained at 170 billion).
Sounds to me like a bit of creative accounting as Frontman mentioned preceded that particular write off!
I seem to be getting this vision of Americans riding bicycles by the thousands because soon enough they’re not going to have any cars to drive after ALL the manufacturers go bust. Just imagine, drivebys will never be the same again…
Probably why stainless steel appliances are the same price because Toyota is buying up all the appliance white paint.
Perhaps Car Advice bloggers should pass the virtual hat around?
Wheres Dan, the guy who says hes never bought a toyota but owns a lexus IS250? Does he know the 1st gen IS was badged as a toyota altezza in japan? Guess he was right, the badge doesnt make a difference.
Wait a minute, he was wrong! He has bought a toyota!
Wonder where he is, must be in shock because the Mazda3 outsold his beloved corolla i guess. Oh well. ;)
Cutting development costs? I thought carrying the basic-Camry architecture for all these years saved a heap of cash
Toyota may not be bankrupt yet, but I doubt it shall last long with $18.5 billion left in the bank
Roflmatic: if a football team loses a game by 4 points or 40 points – they still lose don’t they?
Schadenfreude. Look it up.
Whilst GMs loss maybe $39bn.. it has been greater than that over previous years.. so technically speaking even though they are still in the red GM have been showing signs of improvement [thanks due to subsidiaries such as Holden and Opel] as they gradually edge their way closer to break even – whereas Toyota have suddenly plummeted into the red.. its just a matter of perspective I guess
Quote [Neil]: Toyota may not be bankrupt yet, but I doubt it shall last long with $18.5 billion left in the bank
$18.5bn.. Toyotas F1 team will burn all that up in the first couple of rounds this year
hahaha Falcondore………I think he was Dingo babe!
Soooo true Salesman!
Can some one tell me how much their bank balance has gone down in the last 12 months……….
hahah Alex you know why…..Australian like battlers not braggers.Ever dog has its day……..seems Toyota has found theirs this year and there’s more to come.
Alex if by “Schadenfreude” you mean or ara appalled that we are taking delight in the suffering of another [in this case Toyota]
It’s because; in case you haven’t noticed over the last year or so the handful of Toyota fans who contaminate this site have taken delight in GMs and Fords financial problems at every chance they get.. not to mention the possibility of Holden and Ford leaving Australia – not realising that if theat were to happen its most likely that Toyota would also leave.
Therefore; we are merely replying in a similar fashion.. I guess its not as much fun when you’re the victim is it?
Quote [Don't Be Sour Grapes]: I bought a TRD Aurion, it’s quite a good car but the obvious fact is it should have been a RWD/AWD rather than a FWD. It’s not enough to pretend to be exciting. You have to build the car ground up to be exciting.
Its good to hear from someone who bought a TRD and even better to read that it’s not as exciting or as perfect as the handful of Toyo-philes on this site would like us to believe.. Do you still own the TRD?
Wheelnut, what I mean is that what is probably the most trusted car brand in the world is starting to show holes. I am happy that they are not doing well because they sell mass amounts of sub-standard cars and yet people keep going back to them so they think it’s OK and keep doing it.
Wheelnut, even premiership teams lose a few matches in the season. The net loss is only 2.5% of the total equity of Toyota.
Toyota has assets worth 33 trillion yen, and liabilites of 21 trillion. In US dollars, this is equivalent to 130 billion USD equity.
GM has assets of 110 billion, and 170 billion in liabilities. A net deficit of a whopping 60 billion.
In summary, Toyota needs to make 4 billion dollar annual losses for the next 50 years to be as screwed as GM are.
Don’t get breakeven confused with equity either Wheelnut; GM would need to make 60 billion dollars of “profit” for their balance sheet to simply break even. Companies with far better financials than GM file for chapter 11.
Salesman. Whilst Toyota appear smart, they are NOT the fastest in the business at reinventing themselves. Have a look at how long it took them to get into the most lucrative US market (pick-ups). It took 10 years of reverse engineering F trucks to get anyone to take notice, and even then they were too late. I mean realistically (as much as other deny it) Ford or rather Mullaly saw this coming 4 years ago and set about restructuring Ford. Meanwhile Toyota plowed on and are now starting to pay the piper. This is the cost of that poisoned chalice they call Number 1. Hyundai/Kia have Toyota firmly in their sights are are gunning to knock them off. You are right in your apraisel of them as them as they are the true fast movers in the world (even if it does take five years to happen)
RoFlmaTiC
A loss is a loss is a loss – how the once (apparantly) mighty have stumbled, and the story will only get worse for Toyota with the rise of the Koreans, particularly Hyundai and partner Kia.
Would you like cream with your humble pie?
Wow nice cliche?
The koreans annual profits peaked at around 800 million US dollars before they slumped Q4 last year. They are small fry. They might be selling more cars, but they sell mostly small cars which are well known for having lower margins and explains the small profits when compared to annual sales.
As has been shown, simply selling more cars doesn’t necessarily equate to profits (GM). Porsche is a testament to that.
As I said in my first post, Hyundai will come out of the recession with a bigger market share.
However the big winners will be Ford and Toyota (assuming ford lasts) because once the big 4 in america lose Chrysler and GM, Toyota and Ford will be the ones picking up the slack.
I would also like to add that the major reason for the korean brands seemingly being less affected by the world recession is because their currency is rapidly depreciating. Thus if they sell the same number of cars in America for example, this will instantly convert into higher profits for them because of the exchange rate.
On the other hand the Japanese yen has skyrocketed (see: www . x-rates.com/d/USD/JPY/graph120.html for example) and thus the drop of sales in USA is amplified in terms of its impact to profits.
Getting pleasure from their misfortune? Yeah probably.
Once KIa/Hyundai have a decent range of vehicles and prove themselves I think Toyota has reason to be concerned.
Ford and VW will also come along.
Anyway, Toyota have been calling the tune and asking what they want for their vehicles and this domination of the market clearly isn’t good for the consumer. Good to see Koreans taking it up to them. Will take more than five years though.
Ironic really as I remember Toyota first selling the Corolla,Corona and Crown in Australia in the late sixties,early seventies offering more fruit than the locals to win sales.Also remember them being dynamically challenged compared to everything else at the time.Overall the Corona of the late seventies 76 to 79 18r motor?(when your heart says Europe but your head says Japan) was probably the best Toyota ever made in terms of durability and quality and established Toyota in Australia.Early Crowns and Corollas were duds for various reasons.
As for the Landcruiser building the Snowy mountains scheme more hype.Landrover was the true workhose of choice during that period.
Totally agree Wheelnut on the “Schadenfreude” comment.
Wheelnut Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Whilst GMs loss maybe $39bn.. it has been greater than that over previous years.. so technically speaking even though they are still in the red GM have been showing signs of improvement [thanks due to subsidiaries such as Holden and Opel]
Are you serious? You consider GM to be getting their act together as their loss was only 39 Billion dollars? Thats Billion, not million, what a silly comment. Also, I don’t believe Holden has made a profit in the last 3 or 4 years, I think you will find they are actually contributing to the losses not helping. Signs of improvemnt? WTF they are begging the US feds for another 5 billion on top of the 8 or whatever they got 2 months ago, what drugs are you on wheelnut?
Toyot is going to get hit hard, when you make 10 million cars a year and demand drops to possibly 8 million its a bit like the alamo, could be worse than projected yet.
Wheelnut Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Roflmatic: if a football team loses a game by 4 points or 40 points – they still lose don’t they?
Sure except in this case GM is not losing points, its losing taxpayers money, by the time the US is finished prob about 20 odd billion dollar, wheelNUT, you do know that a billion dollars is a whole lot more than a million dollars :)
I understand you guys want to annoy or payback on toyo supporters, fair enough, but GM is a farce and needs to be put down, enough is enough dont you think?
Does toyota spend money on R&D? They dont spend a cent on chassis & suspension & their stability control is Toys’R'us fisher price price knockdown stuff.
Must be buried somewhere in their Marketing budget I guess.
trackdaze Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Does toyota spend money on R&D? They dont spend a cent on chassis & suspension & their stability control is Toys’R’us fisher price price knockdown stuff.
I agree that most of their range is pretty bland, serviceable is a word that comes to mind. As for R&D, how has that helped GM, Ford and chysler?
BTW, I love Fords range, some real quality and great design work there. Chrysler is a basked case, thats R&D dollars well spent, wouldn’t you agree?
As for GM, we have Barina, Viva, Epica in OZ, so I wouldnt say to much, not a lot of R&D dollars there.
As for the Falcon & VE, great cars, espc the omega from a bang for buck view(apart from the drivetrain and motor) but costs less driveaway than most mid size cars, unfort, rwd does not have a business case anymore at either of these companies, so there goes a lot of r&d dollars from an Oz perspective.
“Signs of improvemnt? WTF they are begging the US feds for another 5 billion on top of the 8 or whatever they got 2 months ago..”
I am sorry, that should have been 13.4 billion originally, and now they want another 13 billion, losing track of all these billions :)
Wagoner might as well nuke GM.
Oh what a loss allright.
Is this what eating whalemeat and Tofu to excess does to you mr Executive Vice President Mitsuo Kinoshita?
Toyota has now paved the way to be potentially grassed by Hyundai/ Kia.
Given this tragic news,
Please be advised that Dingo will be on sick leave until further notice.
Toyota has now paved the way to be potentially grassed by Hyundai/ Kia. ray vohnn Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Glad you appreciate that Hyundai is their biggest threat, its certainly not Detroit anymore.
Goodluck to Hyundai.
I didn’t say that GM are getting their act together – what I meant was that as they are gradually reducing the amount of the losses which they have had over the past couple of years [a negative plus a positive equals a "lesser" negative - that is closer to zero] is why they are showing signs of improvement.
Going by their restructuring plans which were outlined in a statement relaeased late last year they intend to continue reducing the losses…. sure it won’t happen overnight but it will happen – eventually.
Sure GM have been given substantial amounts of money from the US Govt but since then they have spent most of it on projects from Holden and Opel – which indicates that not only have they finally realised the experience and expertise thier subsidiaries have to offer..
but also that they could be considering either reducing the scale of their operations or pulling out of the USA completely
Which is a possibility given that one of the conditions for the bailout is for the overpaid factory workers taking a pay-cut [from $40ph to $25ph] which according to the latest reports doesn’t look like happening
Things just keep getting worse for Toyota.
Quote “Moody’s Investor Services has lowered its credit rating for Toyota from the top-level Aaa to Aa1 and given it a “negative” outlook. Toyota had maintained Aaa status since 2003. The automaker, recently crowned as the largest in the world, is currently dealing with what must be the worst crisis that the Japanese company has ever faced since its inception in 1937. In what is decidedly uncharted territory at Toyota, the automaker saw its global sales fall by 4% last year and it is widely expected to post its first-ever loss – a whopping 150 billion yen ($1.65 billion) – over the full year ending in March. The worst bit of news, though, is that there’s no light at the end of the tunnel. Sales figures are not expected to improve in the coming months, which could very well lead to another loss next year according to industry experts”
Roflmatic – we are talking about Profits and Losses not Assets/Liabilities or Equity.
You are obviously a Toyo-phile as [like most of them] you have tried to change the subject.
Even though they are closely related there is a difference as Profits are Financial; Assets are physical and Liabilities can be considered to be virtual [as they can be adjusted etc with a bit of creative accounting]
GM and Chrysler may be in Financial trouble but at least they’re not spending Billions of dollars a year just to get their arses handed to them in [Farcical] Formula One.
Oh BTW Toyota are execting to record a $5bn Loss by march
[a negative plus a positive equals a "lesser" negative - that is closer to zero] is why they are showing signs of improvement.Wheelnut Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Actually it equals a loss of 39 billion dollars in this case, not sure what the hell you are trying to say here, which is probably a good thing for me. You see here’s the thing, people like you are talking about negs and pos and zero, its billions, BILLIONS, get it.
By the way, what do you think GM’s profit is going to be this financial year?
I actually think Toyota will report a loss closer to 8 billion dollars, where does this leave the likes oF GM?
NO, don’t tell me, minus 1 is your answer.
Sure GM have been given substantial amounts of money from the US Govt but since then they have spent most of it on projects from Holden and Opel – which indicates that not only have they finally realised the experience and expertise thier subsidiaries have to offer..Wheelnut Says:
Sorry, you just made that up, its BS, they are servicing debt, paying wages and health costs with it, week to week stuff, they ran out of cash in december, that is, they had no money, understand. RWD future dev has been killed pretty much by both Ford and GM so much for ongoing developement there. BTW,a billion dollars on the VE is chickenfeed in a global sense, dont talk Holden up tooo much mate. Please stop telling porkies.
“so technically speaking even though they are still in the red GM have been showing signs of improvement [thanks due to subsidiaries such as Holden and Opel]” wheenut
I see you ignored my reply to this comment, Holden has not made a profit in 3 or 4 years, the G8 has failed in the USA and rwd is dying, please do explain how Holden has helped GM, seriously, you need to stop BSING.
Axe here is an example to try and explain what i am getting at:
In 2006 a company records a $45bn Loss – that is a Negative
In 2007 they record a $6bn profit – which is a Positive
Therefore even though the overall result is a Negative of
[-$45bn + $6bn =] -$39bn. In 2007 they actually made an improvement didn’t they… I mean even you would be able to see that.. I made it as simple as i could for you.
Axe.Toyota have gone through something like 70 Billion dollars over the last few years and the kitty is dwindling.
Now they are having quality issues {one of their largest recalls ever this year already}and a huge market down turn. Lots of money was spent and now the bills are coming without the revenues to keep up.
So how you going to feel when Toyota put their hand out to the Japanese Government for funding like the rest of the worlds car companies ? I mean they did it to make the Prius didn’t they!
Sure GM have been given substantial amounts of money from the US Govt but since then they have spent most of it on projects from Holden and Opel – which indicates that not only have they finally realised the experience and expertise thier subsidiaries have to offer..Wheelnut Says:
Sorry, you just made that up, its BS, they are servicing debt, paying wages and health costs with it, week to week stuff,
Okay if I did make that bit up [which I didn't] – then it must be some sort of coincidence that immediately after the US Senate gave GM the money that they approved a number of projects both here and in Europe such as Holdens plans to build a small car – which their had been a lot of speculation about in the months leading up to the announcement.
I mean there’s nothing to say they had to spend all the money on servicing debt is there? – the money is also to help GM streamline its operations and plan fro the future.. and by aprroving these projects etc its obvious that Holden and Opel play a major part in their future unlike Pontiac or Hummer
They are stuill trying to come to some sort of agreement with the overpaid UAW factory workers in relation to their wages etc
incase you haven’t noticed this topic is about the Toyota company and their financial problems not GM – so you please try to stay on topic as required by the CA Code of Conduct.
Even though they are closely related there is a difference as Profits are Financial; Assets are physical and Liabilities can be considered to be virtual [as they can be adjusted etc with a bit of creative accounting]- Wheelnut
The net asset situation of a company will reflect its historical profits, ie profits provide working capital and cash reserves, this is what toyota, hyundai and most of the germans have. Historical profits therefore create cash reserves which allow organizations to run operations, and plan for the future without having to borrow 100% to do the same.
Profits are their primary source of funds, in GM’s case however, borrowings are their primary source of funds, oops, my bad, in GM’s case, borrowings are their only source of funds.
GM and chrysler have a negative net asset position, as they have not made profits, they have no cash reserves and have to fund these very losses by way of debt, ie, borrowing.
Stay with me on this, GM will need about 40 billion dollars in governement loans between dec 08 and June 09 because it is broke and making losses, these loans are simply providing working capital to cover operations and debt repayments, ie, GM and Chryler are f#$@3d.
This Gvt assistance is not going to stop, as GM is going to continue making losses, as such GM cannot create cash reserves to continue operations wich is why they are begging for money.
Be scared, Im guessing short term(2-3 years) they are going to need close to 120 billion dollars, and that comes with no guarantee’s of survival.
These are billions people, Chrsler will probably need about
50 billion on top of that. They are both dead, get it.
Quote Axe: see you ignored my reply to this comment, Holden has not made a profit in 3 or 4 years, the G8 has failed in the USA and rwd is dying, please do explain how Holden has helped GM,
They helped GM in the research and development of a number of cars; one of whihc being the New Camaro of which their is a waiting list of 10;000+ people – then there’s the Holden Engine Company which builds engines for a number of car companies all of which helps reduce GMs losses and gradually work their way back to $0+
pffffffffttttttttt GM and Chrysler is old news so back on topic AXE how much do you think Toyota will be the kitty this time next year ?
Wheelnut Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 11:04 am
In 2006 a company records a $45bn Loss – that is a Negative
In 2007 they record a $6bn profit – which is a Positive
Therefore even though the overall result is a Negative of
[-$45bn + $6bn =] -$39bn. In 2007 they actually made an improvement didn’t they… I mean even you would be able to see that.. I made it as simple as i could for you.
Thanks for making it simple, how did they fund that 45 billion dollar loss wheelnut? Debt, they pay interest on the debt and have to make monthly capital repayments to reduce the debt, things are just going from bad to worse as their cashflow requirements due to funding losses is increasing. Here’s the thing tho, they are still making losses, so they need to borrow more..and when they need to borrow more..they inflate the value of their assets..get it.
BM, I can guarantee you that Toyota will take assistance from the Jap Gvt, they have to, we have a trade war about to happen. GM takes prob a 100 billion is USA aid, you think the Jap Gvt is going to leave Toyota out their on there own. Nope. Its gonna get messy.
Best thing to do is kill GM/Chrysler and have a strong Ford, let free enterprise run its course.
“They helped GM in the research and development of a number of cars; one of whihc being the New Camaro of which their is a waiting list of 10;000+ people – then there’s the Holden Engine Company which builds engines for a number of car companies all of which helps reduce GMs losses and gradually work their way back to $0″ wheelnut
I dont care, it does not matter, both holden and GM are losing money, understand.
10000 camaro’s? Listen thats great, but big deal, how about the 15000 g8’s sitting around.
The US market is going to shrink by 5 million cars this year, get it, whats 10000 camaro’s..
BM, again, Toyota will take Jap assistance, as will the other Jap companies, they have to, GM and chysler situation has killed the free market/trade/
Another Toyota blog, and who has the most posts? Holden Spokesman Wheelnut, with his mistress BM not too far behind!
Wheelnut, it’s hilarious how you fight to the living end, yet I hardly see a peep out of you when anything other than GM/GMH or Toyota or Lexus is concerned!
If you applied yourself with such passion in the real world who knows, maybe you might get somewhere in life.
Bavarian Missile (.)(.) Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 11:23 am
“pffffffffttttttttt GM and Chrysler is old news so back on topic AXE how much do you think Toyota will be the kitty this time next year ?”
What do you drive?
Like it or not Axe the US Govt will continue to fund GM Chrysler.. The Australian Govt will continue to fund Holden Ford and Toyo-Oz.. and the Japanese Govt will continue to fund Toyo-kyo because they know its better to spend the money in order to keep 1000s of workers in a job and keep the economy running if not idling; than it is to have 1000s of people out of work and having to pay them even more in weekly social security payments.
“incase you haven’t noticed this topic is about the Toyota company and their financial problems not GM – so you please try to stay on topic as required by the CA Code of Conduct”
In case you hav’nt noticed this is bout the future of our car industy, free enterprise and government intervention, not to mention a trade war, have you reorted me yet, do I now get banned as you can’t sustain an economic arguement?
“I mean there’s nothing to say they had to spend all the money on servicing debt is there? ” wheelnut
IF THEY DON’T SUSTAIN THEIR DEBT, their financiers will foreclose, if they don\t py their wages, their employees will not front up, if they don’t pay their suppliers they will withold delivery…get it..THEY ARE LOCKED IN!
Realist once again all you seem to do is stalk me,Ive reported you again.Mate if you have nothing to comment regarding the thread then dont bother !
What do I drive ? What the hell has that got to do with anything! Not GM or Chrysler thats for sure.
“because they know its better to spend the money in order to keep 1000s of workers in a job and keep the economy running if not idling; than it is to have 1000s of people out of work and having to pay them even more in weekly social security payments.”
Here we are, jobs and social security payments, the last arguement availiable.
Its not an economic arguement, and what will happen will happen(read 380). In Australia 10 – 15 years ago there were around 110000 – 120000 people directly employed within this industry, there are now around about 60000 people, does this tell you somthing. Efficiency, technolgy and in the last 3 – 5 years serious decline in consumer demand for OZ built cars, all of them. The numer of people directly employed in this industry within 10 years will be about 30000 maybe. Thats okay tho, it just represents where we will be at.
The big 3 in the USA can only be the big 2 or 1 even. But they will be strong and have substntially more market share and HOPEFULLY be run properly.
Welfare payments/government assistance to the industry, whats the difference, prefer to see the gvt spend more on infrastruture spending and create real jobs than support a lame duck/
axe Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 10:30 am. Glad you appreciate that Hyundai is their biggest threat, its certainly not Detroit anymore.
With Hyundai/ Kia moving forward when the big three are collapsing and Toyota suffering serious losses, it is evident some serious research and strategies were put in place by Hyundai.
californias answer to the reliant robin,
http://english.aljazeera.net/n.....78702.html
Quote [Real ?]: Wheelnut, it’s hilarious how you fight to the living end, yet I hardly see a peep out of you when anything other than GM/GMH or Toyota or Lexus is concerned!
FYI I do make comments on other articles/topics which have nothing to do with GM-Holden or Toyota/Lexus.
Its just that once one of the handful of Toyota fans on this site make a comment the discussion usially ends up turning into an arguement – about Toyota and their supposed superiority; reliability and value for money etc
Mainly because the Toyota fans apparently don’t kno that much about any other cars except Toyota.. and who do the Toyota fans target in an attempt to try and support their case? GM-Holden
Therefore; virtually every blog on this site becomes a Holden vs Toyota sh!tfight – mainly due to the fact that they Toyota fans don’t understand or refuse to accept what other people are saying or when they finally realise that they are losing they resort to personal attacks and insults
The people who run CA have noticed that anything to do with Toyota or GM-Holden gets the most responses which is why a greater number of articles relate to either Holden or Toyota than any other make inorder to get more hits and maintain their position as Australias most Popular Automotive Blog website
Wheelnut said: “Roflmatic – we are talking about Profits and Losses not Assets/Liabilities or Equity.
You are obviously a Toyo-phile as [like most of them] you have tried to change the subject.”
Name calling now?
I’m glad I don’t have to explain simple accounting concepts to you as Axe seems to have already done so. Cheers Axe.
you have to understand you do not judge a company by the first few bad announcements they make. you still need to consider the underlying strategic and infrastructure strength that they have. the fundamentals of toyota is still as strong as any car company can be and once economy picks up you can be sure thier profits will pick up as well. it will take thier closest competitor VW at least 20-30 years to catch up to where toyota is now. i am no fan of toyota, but ‘how to run a business’ wise i think they are top of the game. as effective as the advertisements of kia/hyundai are now, they are still a long long way behind. GM, chrysler and ford are irrelevant because they arent a business. they are a charity case. centrelink. medicare.
by the way, you delay the prius because not many people are going to have the cash to buy the prius yet until the economy picks up.
Quote Dan…..”Bavaria, get it into your head that the world is not going to come crashing for Toyota over one or two recalls ok. You may keep on dreaming as much as you like, but fact of the matter is, this won’t even make a ripple, no matter how many times you quote the heading of this article here. As someone above said, recalls are part of the business. All manufacturers do recalls every now and then. Keep dreaming all you like, but you;re only setting yourself up for a disappointment.”
Seems there is bad news after bad news weekly for your precious Toyota Dan ………….when you forecasting Toyota start knocking on the Japaneses Governments door for money again ?
Must be time for another recall next week what you think ?
“Toyota also will cut spending on marketing and r&d.”
I can only hope and pray that their advertising on TV becomes severely impacted.
Dingo will be howling mad.
Anyone know a good animal therapist ?
Humble Pie is certainly the flavour of the month for Toyota lovers
Andrew M,
Why a Humble Pie?
Ford and GM would still love to lob of their left one, just to be in the same financial position as Toyota!!
Like most things in life, one’s perception of things pretty much lies from what position in life they have achieved. Toyota was always going to go down eventually because as everyone knows when you are at the top, there are only two way’s to go. Either stay there or fall. GM and Ford on the other hand being in their own version of a toilet can only go up. Although with the help of taxpayers I might add, which without their help would have gone the way of the DODO (along with chrysler). Toyota on the other hand would still continue along without any help in the US.
In this economic climate there was zero chance of toyota continuing along at the current pace, so down the profit gurgler they have gone into losses. Something GM and Ford wrote the book on and alien territory for toyota. GM and Ford on the other hand are at the bottom of the pile and have been for a number of years, so there was only one way for them too go and that is up. You could not get any worse than GM, Ford and Chrysler as far as car companies go IMO!
Dear John, I’d suggest you actually look at the kind of protectionism that Toyota has recieved from it’s government over the pas 40 years, and also the deal sweeteners it has recieved from variuos countries and states around the globe before you make comments on the size of the “HANDOUTS” (why do people not read the facts, as these are only aproved as loans that MUST be paid back within a certain time frame and come with the pre-requisite of having a government member on the board) that “2″ of the D3 got…… Oh and don’t forget that the US tats where Toyota (and others) set up shop had to guarantee that the UAW were not able to force themselves inot those factories.
Wheelnut, yes I still own the TRD. It’s not a bad car by any means, especially since I got a ridiculous deal on it. But it screams out to be a RWD/AWD. Traction control has to be turned off for any decent amount of fun, and if it is a wet day you can forget about spirited driving or else the next car you will be in is a hearse. For a day to day driver, it does the job well, no compromising on space or comfort.
I’ve brought it around Nebo a fair bit too. It’s by far the stickiest FWD I’ve ever driven but it simply cannot compare with a RWD. Lucky it has good brakes or it would have been my bumper that Alborz would’ve seen on Nebo!
I am going to trade it in for an Evo X next year. I only buy cars when I can afford to pay cash.