Despite momentary threats from Toyota’s Corolla, the Holden Commodore has remained Australia’s favourite passenger car for the 13th consecutive year after finishing 2008 as Australia’s best-selling car.

2008 saw 51,093 Holden Commodores sold in Australia, continuing Commodore’s unbroken record from 1996 as the country’s leading passenger car range.

Despite the general downturn in the market, GM dealers managed to sell 10,848 new cars in December last year, this included 5413 Commodore and 1629 VE Ute models, the best monthly sales record for both vehicles in 2008.

The increase in sales numbers is partially due to heavy discounting by dealers. We have heard reports buyers around the country getting thousands of dollars off the sticker price. One buyer in Brisbane managed to buy a brand new HSV R8 for under $48,000!

Summing up the year GM Holden sold 130,338 vehicles in Australia commanding a market share of 12.9 per cent. This is in shadow of Toyota’s monumental with 238,983 sales or 23.6 per cent market share. Ford came in third with 104,715 sales or 10.3 per cent.

 Holden Sportwagon

Another model which boosted sales for Holden was the new Sportwagon which went on sale in July. Holden says 8200 were purchased in just five months. Making the Sportwagon more successful than any SUV in the market during the same period.

The Holden Statesmen, no longer challenged by the Fairlane, led the Upper Large category for vehicles under $100,000 with a 38.8 per cent market share. The VE Ute also beat the Ford Falcon Ute.

GM Holden Executive Director of Sales, Marketing and Aftersales, Mr Alan Batey says the figures show that family-sized vehicles continued to be attractive to Australians. Holden believes the Commodore continues to remain as a smart buy.

It just shows that during tough times, people are attracted to products that represent outstanding quality and value for money. Commodore has become a symbol of local design and engineering expertise and Australia’s ability to compete on the world stage. “Holden is committed to a program of ongoing development to ensure Commodore maintains its reputation as a smart buy for Australian motorists.” Mr Batey said.

It’s worth noting that the figures include sales to government and private fleets.

Will the Commodore remain as the best selling car once again in 2009?




  • Sumodog

    Commodore is a good car, but too conventional. No diesel ,average sixes and guzzling eights.It is also too large for congested cities. If i had to pick one Commodore it would be SS-V Sportswagon.

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

    Well done Holden. 13 years straight is no mean feat.

    I expect it won’t be number one in January when fleet sales don’t really kick in. But then most Corollas and Camry’s are sold to fleets as well.

    If they do a good job of the VF and bring on the much needed improvements to drivetrains and interior, then I think it might scrape another number one year.

  • Brett

    “It’s worth noting that the figures include sales to government and private fleets.”

    Any chance CA could publish a list of the highest selling cars not including fleet sales? I’d be keen to find out where private buyers are happy to spend their money when big fleet discounts aren’t part of the equation…

  • Bucket

    I don’t think the title of “Australia’s Favourite Car” should be taken lightly and I definitely think It’s worth mentioning that it takes Business and Fleet purchases into account. Which i’m guessing jacks up Holden’s figures considerably. Once again, its Marketing tripe from the propellor heads at Holden if they think “most purchases” = “Aussies favourite car”…I fail to see the logic in that one.
    This doesn’t necessarily equate to a favourite choice of car by the public but more that Holden are prepared to slash prices more competitively to get a car on the street.
    Obviously, it’s not Australia Best Car either.

    I’d love to see the figures for private purchase in which case I think we’d see much closer figures if not, Holden actually falling behind other Makes Vs. the hallowed Commodore.

  • Duck

    Good work Holden!!!!

    Will the Falcon ever beat the Commodore again in sales, do you think?

  • Golfschwein

    Who cares if a sizeable percentage of sales go to government and fleets? Can any of you honestly explain why it matters?

    It doesn’t! If government and fleets bought 6000 Saab 9-3s a month, it would be the top selling car. They don’t, so it isn’t.

    The Commodore obviously has what it takes to appeal to the largest cross section of buyers in the country. That’s why it’s the top seller. Funny, that.

  • Brett

    Golfschwein, it’s not so much that it really matters, I’d just be interested to see what is the top selling car when people have to shell out their own hard earned. I’m not intending to take anything away from Holden here, just want to see both sides of the story.

  • Technofreak

    This article means nothing…fleet sales should not count imo for what is the best selling car. Especially when many articles like this make it sound like real people bought a Holden.

    In real life the Mazda 3 would have to be close to being the best seller.

    Show us some real stats…

  • Golfschwein

    I admit that a breakdown would make interesting reading, Brett. As for hard-earned, governments and fleets also base their purchasing decisions on what gives them value.

    They’re probably better informed than the majority of Verns and Shirleys who are driven to anything in their price bracket that has their favourite colour, badge or the most comfortable arm rests.

  • Bucket

    Golfschwein,

    It matters because when it comes to Fleet or Business, one person normally makes the purchasing decision.
    If holden can offer the best deal to the fleet buyer and they make the decision to purchase…lets say 200 Commodores into their fleet, where does that put consumer choice in the scheme of things? No where. How on earth can you call it Australia’s favourite care when a potential 200 individual buyers from the private sector are taken out of the loop??

  • Golfschwein

    Technofreak, why???

    It’s like saying the only reason Hawthorne won on the weekend was because Buddy Franklin kicked 6 goals. Well, yer. That’s why they won, see.

    Let’s take his goals out and see how they would have REALLY gone! Nya!

  • Glenn

    To all the naysayers number one is simply number one no matter what it does not matter about fleet sales they all count and I am sure that Toyota would suffer greatly if fleet sales were removed. So shut up and accept the result for what it is. Congrats to Holden and no doubt they would love to have a diverse model range to select from as do Toyota whom can select from a vast array of relevent models from their world portfolio.Holded despite its connection to GM does not have this luxury.

  • Golfschwein

    It’s all theory, theory and more theory, Bucket. The results are the results.

  • Bret

    There are only 3 people that I know personally, who bought a new car last year. Each bought the car for their own personal use, each bought under a salary sacrifice scheme, each one is therefore “fleet”.
    Fleet numbers most certainly do count, after all it is still factory volume.
    Has anyone who questions “fleet” sales wonder who buys all of the used fleet cars – private people. Either there is a massive stockpile of these ex-fleet cars sitting somewhere, or people are buying them. Think it through.

    And BTW the 3 cars? 1 Mazda 3, 1 Commodore, 1 Falcon.

  • Bucket

    I’m not avoiding the fact that Holden have the Top Selling car in Australia. As you said…Facts are Facts.
    What I DO disagree with is the claim to the “Australia’s Favorite Car” title. “Favorite” Infers that its the pick of choice by the consumer. And the most accurate, actual gauge of this would be the Private Sector.

  • Bret

    Bucket,
    You miss the point that those who are probably most likely able to turn over a new car every few years, are those with salary sacrifice or salary package cars. These are all fleet and virtually always chosen by the individual.

  • max

    “fleet sales wonder who buys all of the used fleet cars – private people.”

    Whats the relevance to this statement when compiling new car sales results, I will say it if no one else will, who cares about secondhand cars in this context.

    Yes the VE is the number 1 seller in OZ, and congrats to Holden again. Retail sales I believe it comes in about 7th or so, there was an article on drive and perhaps even here a while ago, think Mazda 3 was the winner btw.

    Had 6 friends reneg their cars last year, 2 went bmw,then lexus, toyota, mazda and honda. Just to add to the meaningless events being discussed, these were not fleet sales either, just to make it more meaningless :)

    Why does it matter golfie, here’s why, 2 words – bottom line. Holden have not made money in the last three years and after the discounting of the last 2 months they wont make any money in 2009 either. Sure they are still amortizing VE dev costs, here’s another fact, they have not made dollar 1 in profit since release of same either.

    That’s why it matters Golfie, you see when a VE Omega with options is priced drive away within cooee of an Epica, all is not well :)

  • Bucket

    Brett,

    Fleet normally have a very limited Choice when it comes to Salary sacrifice. My Dad for example has a VE Omega under Salary Sacrifice…Why? Because he has the choice of that or a Camry…wow…a lot of choice there! Most companies that have a Salary Sacrifice program only have one or two cars available.
    I would agree whole heartedly if Novated Lease is included because people most likely wouldnt pick Holden Commodore or the Falcon due estimated returns being lower than desired.
    In Novated Lease, Japanese/European Cars rule the roost.
    Second Hand Fleet Cars don’t and shouldn’t count. Why? Smart people buy there…the ones that don’t want to cop the loss of $20,000 on a Commodore or Falcon and will let a company absorb that loss for them.

  • Golfschwein

    If fleets and governments favour Commodore, how would this not define “favourite”?

    My Concise Australian Oxford agrees, and I hereby quote; n & a (person or thing) preferred above others (the favourite of; a favourite with or of)

  • max

    Why is it favourite golfie? Is it the product, or the incentive to purchase it :)

  • max

    I mean without doubt its the favourite fleet option :)

  • Milar

    I might have been another in the commodore camp if the sportswagon had a 6 speed auto. That was the straw that broke the sportwagons back when I was researching our new car.

  • Bucket

    Golf,

    My Concise Australian Oxford agrees, and I hereby quote; n & a (person or thing) preferred above others (the favourite of; a favourite with or of)

    …Person = individual. How about we equate each fleet buyer to one commodore? They are after all, the individual and buying on the bottom line as apposed to preference.
    A lot of people would take the Fleet option as a wise financial option (with preference for their favourite car taken out of the equation… and are given the choice of a commodore…or a commodore…
    My Dad for example would love a BMW Lease for his work car but the K’s he does wouldnt justify it so he takes the VE Omega Fleet option)

  • B-Man

    Well said Max.
    Also Bret, I think you will find that the majority of ex fleet cars go to taxi companies, not the private buyers. I can’t remember the last time one of my mates said ‘I’m looking for a bog-stock ex company car with 250000kms on the clock and has taken an absolute beating.’

  • Bret

    Bucket,
    I have never heard of a company that limits vehicle choice under salary sacrifice. A Salary sacrifice is your money, you do with it what you want.
    Most salary sacrifice cars are novated leases, and to suggest that Euro/Jap rules is rubbish. In fact Falcon and Commodore are probaly more popular due to lower through life lease costs.

  • Golfschwein

    It doesn’t really matter why it’s the favourite, Max.

    My Dear Mum hated, I mean HATED, their 1988 Holden Berlina because the cloth trim on the doors used to catch the diamond on her wedding ring. I mean, if she didn’t sit there moving her hand constantly whilst she grasped the door pull, it wouldn’t have been an issue, even if the fuel consumption remained so.

    So, you see, the Verns and Shirleys have a lot to answer for in relation to why they like or dislike a car.

  • Bret

    B-Man, how could you be so far of the mark? Besides the taxi fleet volume is relatively low.

    Have you even been to an auction, do you know the industry at all?

    Most ex-fleet cars are bought by used car dealers who on-sell them to private buyers.

    (And how many company cars rack up 250,000km? What planet are you on?)

  • Bucket

    Brett…

    You’re right, as a salary sacrifice- you can do whatever you want…BUT if your company has a Fleet Agreement with a Manufacturer…Holden in this case (and they will normally stick with one car for Fleet)Then that agreement normally entails a Bulk buy of the one car at a heavily discounted rate, particularly if the company has a high turn over based on a K’s limit of 15,000km for example (like some government organisations)
    Pricing can be even better if it goes back to the Dealership it came from after the K’s hits the limit.
    Novated Leasing on the other hand (where you can buy what you want) is very different to the aforementioned.
    I can tell you right now, if I was novated leasing a car, it would not be a Falcon or Commodore, purely on resale reasoning. Compare a TDI Jetta and a Commodore Omega (similarly priced) of the same vintage for example.

  • B-Man

    Get back to work Bret, those burgers wont flip themselves

  • Wheelnut

    Sumodog – Holden are working on a number of alternative engines including: a diesel 6 cylinder; a turbo diesel; a tein-turbo 6 cylinder engine. which they plan to introduce within the coming years.

    HSV are also looking at an intercooled turbo diesel V8..[possibly from BMW] and a smaller capacity V8 to create a new entry level model

  • Bret

    Bucket, inadvertantly you have backed Golfies “favorite” theory. Based on resale price alone nobody would lease a Commodore, but the fact that many do means that other factors, such as a personal prefference (or chice) are playing a big part here.

    B-Man, don’t make the childish mistake of judging others by your own standards. You were wrong with your statement, admit it and move on, without resorting to pathetic abuse.
    (And anyway, when I do fire up the barbie on the weekend I prefer steak or a good lamb chop.)

  • max

    “Novated Leasing on the other hand (where you can buy what you want) is very different to the aforementioned.”

    Correct, also its not a fleet sale as no discounting is involved (unless you can screw the dealer :))

  • max

    “BUT if your company has a Fleet Agreement with a Manufacturer…Holden in this case (and they will normally stick with one car for Fleet)Then that agreement normally entails a Bulk buy of the one car at a heavily discounted rate, particularly if the company has a high turn over based on a K’s limit of 15,000km for example (like some government organisations)”

    Buckets pretty much right on the money actually Brett, where such arrangements are in place you are limited in what you can actually select. Government fleets can often be a good example of the above, tho they often retain ownership of the vehicle as well.

  • max

    “It doesn’t really matter why it’s the favourite, Max.”

    Golfie. I can’t argue against that logic, I’m with your mom re the barina as well :)

  • Bret

    Max,
    Novated leasing certainly can (and in my experience usually is) a “fleet” sale, with fleet pricing, often purchased through fleet supply companies. I know all of mine have been.

    Govt vehicles are govt vehicles – end of story. It’s very rare for the user of a Govt car to have any choice of the car they use. However those Govt employees who choose to salary sacrifice a car always make their own choice.

  • Wheelnut

    I don’t know why people are so concerned about the % of Holdens Fords or Toyotas sold that are made up of fleet sales..

    I mean it’s like in Rugby League: it doesn’t matter who scores the most tries or gets the most goals….
    What matters is who has the higher score at the end of the game – they are the winner…. get over it!

  • JEYKL & HYDE

    if holden had its best month ever with commodore in december,it will probably have its worst in jan 09.there is no stock,and nothing available now till feb09.everybody except advertising is on holidays.anybody for a 5 star, v8 winning,peoples choice falcon???

  • Scrap Metal

    just shows up the fact that in this country people DO NOT buy the best cars. Lets face it it is so far behind the FG in every area it unbelievable that it is only a couple of years old. it may be the top seller but it means nothing because they dont make any money on it due to the massive price reductions just to keep them selling. Holden sell the worst range of cars of any car company in australia……VE is the worst large car, Epica is crap, barina is crap, captiva is crap, viva is crap…………

  • Bret

    Scrap Metal,
    I wholeheartedly agree with almost every thing you said.

    I’m just not sure that Commodore is worse than the V6 Camry (also known as Aurion). Or is it that a V6 camry is not truly a “large” car?

  • itsme

    Just because your selling heaps of cars dosent mean anything.I mean we all know the ford is much better. And every one always makes fun of toyota how ther cars are crap even though there number 1 car seller in the country.

  • Scrap Metal

    My neighbour just bought his daughter a Barina and he told me he bought it because it was desinged, developed amd made in in Australia by Holden !! How did he know this ? The salesman told him ……lol

  • Scrap Metal

    Funny how after my last post the anti-spam word is Daewoo !!!!!

  • Frosty

    Typical of you B man making abuse of someone just because he proved you to be wrong. I personally believe you would be more qualified to only toss burgers than Bret.

    As has been already stated numbers are numbers regardless of who buys them. Its not as if 1 fleet car equals 2 or more private sales. Its still 1 sale fleet equals 1 sale private. Regarding novatel leases I am yet to see or hear of no options when it comes to a salary sacrifised car. I have not heard of even 1 so as far as I am concerned that does not alter the years sales figures.

  • topdog

    I agree with scap metal.We all know the ford is way better once people start buying them word gets around thay will sell more.As for the commondore well its not to bad just needs new interior new engine and gearbox for a start.But all holden stuff realy is crap or should i say all there dawoes are crap .Even the toyota aurion is so far ahead of the ve in all areas but one, handling being front drive it leaves it behined the ve, but toyota its engine and gear box are waaaaaaay up on the ve its so creamy smooth as is the ford too dont know how the ve gets away with its bad pakage realy

  • Bucket

    Bret,

    I don’t understand how I have backed Golf’s theory.
    On the whole, i dont think Many people Novate Lease Commodores and I can tell you right now, if your company has an agreement with a dealership that you return the cars back after 15000K’s or something similar They will most likely do a better purchase deal than the preset fleet discount that Holden do. Why do they do that? They have a guaranteed steady flow of “Certified Used” Commodores coming back into their stock pool that they can then sell off to the public and recoup whatever loss they made on the initial sell.
    There may be a lot of people in the public driving Omega’s and other 6 cyl. commodores but I would say a majority of them are used, low Km “certified” commodores…Holden’s market for the general public pref. would most likely be Calais and SV6/SV8 which, even though they are going to lose in the resale game still hold better relatively than the Omega. Not many people with half a brain would go and buy and Omega knowing how much it will hurt them on trade/selling privately (both terrible)
    Once again, I would love to see how much of Holden actual sales isnt Bulk Fleet/Gov’t Purchases and I don’t think I would be surprised at the large percentage it would take up. Holden and Holden Dealerships have very aggressive fleet sales models and I’m guessing it revolves around, “the more on the street, the better for business”.

  • Bret

    Bucket,
    Here you do the sums: 70-75% Commodores & Falcons are Fleet.
    But the fleet king is Hilux. Generally running at 80%+ fleet, or if you prefer, less than 1 in 5 Hilux sales are private.
    But you still can’t compare, because you don’t know what percentage of other cars (Mazda 3 for example) are fleet – and yes they DO sell fleet.

    Ah well, perhaps we’ll just stick to overall sales figures because that is all that is generally available.

  • realcars

    Better story than the Toyoita one.LOL.

    I am sure if u could get a potential Toyota buyer to actually test drive a Commodore they would never go back to the Camaurion FWD Lexus.

    Trouble is majority of Toyota buyers know very little about cars.LOL.

  • VZLumina

    I drive Goulburn to Canberra every single day and i reckon i would see about easily 15 VE commodores,(not to mention the crazy amount of VT-VZ) the only fleet one i ever see is a HWY PATROL car sitting in the same spot.

    I have never ever seen a VE Taxi in Canberra or Sydney and i have seen probably 20 FG taxis, and the odd Aurion.

    And nearly most or all of my friends and their parents drive a Commodore or Falcon.

    I also rarely see rental commodores, at Canberra Airport their mostly BF/FG Falcons or 380′s.

    And Holden must be doing something right if the PM Chooses to be driven around in one.

    P.S I’m not saying Holden don’t do fleet, but it just seems to be a lot less then in the past.

    And is it just me or does every second Corolla have ‘No Bird’ ‘Budget’ or ‘Avis’ on the door or windscreen?

  • realcars

    Topdog people that buy Commodore actually drive them and run up the klms whereas your average Camaurion buyer generally only drives to bowls or to A jOhn Laws Tribute and hence the large numnber of low klm used examples.LOL.

    Funny how the FWD Aurion costs 30% less to manufacture and yet Toyota ask the same coin as Holden do for the superior RWD Commodore.

    Perhaps that is the reason Commodore is number one.

  • realcars

    Commodore is a five star rated car.See Ancap!!!!

  • Bret

    Realcars,
    Don’t get too excited just yet. Isn’t it only Omega?
    The more expensive cars will only have the modifications filtered through over the coming months.

  • Frontman

    Just for the record, some 65>70% of the total new vehicle sales in Australia are fleet based. I know of a particular fleet department that is turning over a round 230/month with the mix being 90 Toyota, 70 Ford, 40 Honda & 30 Subaru (on average for 11 months of 2008, didn’t have Honda in January). Total Subaru sales for that dealership /mth is 45 so the theory of fleet making the numbers wrong doesn’t wash.
    Holden still have a fair share of the Avis & Budget rental fleet, Ford still fairly heavy into Hertz, but both were blown away by the pricing of Toyota Aurion. Neither could/ wanted to match it and were happy enough to let it go. Similar story with most Govco fleets. (or at least those that haven’t sworn to the green 4 cyl brigade)

  • realcars

    I believe a mod to the steering column shield and knee airbags will render the entire range five star!!!!

    Who was the guy that said the Commodore couldn’t be five star?

  • VZLumina

    Just the plastic panel under the steering column and a seat belt reminder light for passengers

  • Wheelnut

    So what if 60-70% of Commodore sales are fleet sales…

    I mean running a fleet is an expensive exercise and companies who operate fleets are always looking for ways to improve efficiency and performance and reduce costs

    Therefore; the fact that so many companies and government departments use/prefer Commodores shows you that they obviously believe that the Commodore is more economical to run cheaper to repair and maintain than say an Aurion not to mention more reliable.

    Because the more time a company car spends in a workshop the less money its making as it inhibits their ability to provide a service or make a sale etc.

  • MisterTwo

    I am in fleet management and nearly all of my customers get government discounts which are huge. When fleet managers are looking at new vehicles the price is very important so the Commodores, Falcons, Camrys and Aurions all do well. However when I do Novated Leases most go for Audi, Subaru, Peugeot, VW etc, especially when they have to pay out a residual at the end. Someone mentioned that private buyers buy the former fleet cars, but the prices have to be low which is why resale on Falcadores is so bad. Perfect example, 2004 Berlina/Fairmont cost $42,000.00 New, are now worth less than $12,000.00. My 2004 Accord V6 Cost $40,000.00 new and is now worth around $20,000.00. Because the Berlina/Fairmont would have been sold to fleets at around $30,000.00 the loss is about the same, that is why very few private buyers buy them new.

  • Wheelnut

    You want to talk about fleet sales? one of the biggest fleet providers in the country is Mercedes Benz as almost every state uses Merc-Benz Sprinters as Ambulances..
    almost 90% of Sprinter sales if not more are to the Ambo’s

  • Bucket

    Taken from ANCAP.com.au…….

    The tested model of Holden Commodore was introduced in Australia during 2006. This 5 star ANCAP rating applies to Commodores with several upgrades, including a front passenger seat belt reminder and a redesigned steering column cover. The Omega variant is the first with these upgrades, applicable to vehicles built from October 2008.
    Dual front airbags, side airbags and head-protecting side curtains are standard equipment. Antilock brakes (ABS), electronic brakeforce distribution (EBD) and electronic stability control (ESC) are also standard. Advanced seat belt reminders are fitted to both front seats.
    The front seat belt buckles are mounted on the seats and the upper anchorages are adjustable. These features improve the fit of the seat belt. Pretensioners are fitted to the front seat belts to reduce slack in the event of a crash. A three point seat belt is fitted to the centre rear seat. This provides better protection than a two point (lap) seat belt.

  • broke

    Falcon will beat holden again when GM goes bust ha ha again…. Spam is falcon

  • Bucket

    anti-spam=diesel lol :)

    Thank you for the affirming my suspicions MisterTwo!

  • Golfschwein

    Doesn’t make you right, though, Bucket. The favourite car is the most favoured. Highest number wins.

    Okay, no more lessons from Golfschwein on what defines favourite. It’s not a difficult language.

  • Bucket

    Well we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that one Golf :). I’m not disagreeing with the definition of Favourite just what quantifies as favourite in this case and I’m siding with individual private sales with out fleet included, Whichever company tries to make that claim.

  • Wheelnut

    Bucket – If you’re going to exclude fleet sales from the overall sales figures
    Does that mean that you will also exclude the sale of Commercial vehicles such as 4x4s Vans and Pick Ups as well and only focus on sales of Passenger Vehicles such as Hatches Sedans Wagons and Coupes?

  • Golfschwein

    Hmmm. A whole can of worms to be opened there, Wheelnut. From now on, when I watch the footy, I’m going to subtract goals by Buddy Franklin and all the other players who contribute to artificially high scores and devise my own scores and results to be collated at the end of the season.

  • Radster

    Regardless of the many valid arguments being made by our colleagues, the Commodore is still selling relatively well in both the domestic and overseas markets. Their marketing models, fleet deals and export plans are examples of strategic excellence, but the car itself will need to improve if its going to remain competitive and continue to appeal to a broad range of purchasers. In what ways do you think it needs to improve and when should Holden release a new model?

  • Wheelnut

    Exactly Golfie; I mean could you imagine how bad Toyotas sales figures would be if [going by Buckets "logic" ] they excluded all cars that were white? – just a thought

  • Andrew M

    leg byes, wides and no balls still put points on the board dont they??

  • Falcodore

    Australia’s top selling car = Commodore
    Australia’s best selling car by people spending their own money = Mazda3
    And Bret, Mazda3 does NOT do fleet sales.

  • Forza M

    runs on the board wood duck

  • Bucket

    Err…guys..rewind..

    We are only talking about a family sized car arent we?
    It’s a car that is primarily marketed at private buyers thus shouldn’t they be using the figures that are private sales?

    “GM Holden Executive Director of Sales, Marketing and Aftersales, Mr Alan Batey says the figures show that family-sized vehicles continued to be attractive to Australians. Holden believes the Commodore continues to remain as a smart buy.”

    Somewhere in that statement he failed to mention companies Australians (meaning individuals I would think) and Companies, the biggest buyers no doubt fail to get a mention…and ofcourse, Holden would like to maintain the perception that majority of sales go to the private sector.

    I’m leaving it at that.

  • realcars

    Mistertwo u omitted the fact that thse fleet Falcodores on average have covered far more klms than your 2004 Accord on average as well which also affects resale.Also true if u look at exfleet Camaurions which seem to be turned over more often than Falcodores by fleets i.e less klms.

  • realcars

    Australia’s driving future Holden.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Bucket]: We are only talking about a family sized car arent we?…. It’s a car that is primarily marketed at private buyers thus shouldn’t they be using the figures that are private sales?

    No Bucket we’re talking about a Large [Locally Built] RWD Sedan/Wagon.. because a Mondeo or even a Corolla is also capable of accommodating your average family – of 2 adults and 2 kids… although they mightn’t have as much room features performance or safety etc..Plus the Commodore sales figures also include Utes

    There are a number of cars that are used for a wide range of purposes other than the initial reason for which they were designed or built.. So even though tge Commodore can easily fit 5 passengers and their luggage it can also beused as a commercial vehicle for business needs

  • realcars

    Commodores are a pleasant distraction in an otherwise sea of blandness filled with Toyotas

  • Andrew M

    do we delete Corolla fleet sales that arent sold directly to individual grandmas and teeny boppers as thats the real target audience for them??

    and do we delete private sales of commercial vehicles because private buyers arent “commercial” customers??

    GET OVER IT

    sales are sales.
    those that know the bigger seller doesnt indicate the best vehicle will quickly realise sales counts for nothing whether they are inclusive of fleet sales or not. All it does is give a manufacturer bragging rights.

    Stock sells stock, so thats the reason why manufacturers see it as important to have masses of their product out there, or the headline that says they do

    Golfie is techniclly right.
    It CAN be termed “favourite”
    some have purchased it because they favour its looks,
    some have purchased it because they favour its performance,
    some favour it because they feel it is the most Australian
    and some favour it because of the great fleet pricing deals they get on it.
    Either way its favoured for some reason or another

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    Ill think you will find commodore sales DONT include ute sales.

    Also bad example using the Mondeo, because it sported better safety and features than the commy…….

    And to add further from before…..
    The commodore prob is a smart buy (as Mr batley says) to those that dont want to end up with DVT, as compared to the other sardine cased choices

  • Andrew M

    QUOTE “Realcars”
    ……………..
    “Commodores are a pleasant distraction in an otherwise sea of blandness filled with Toyotas”

    Ill pay that mate…….

  • Glenn

    I have a novated lease my car is a HSV VE R8 which the company pays the leasing firm and i sacrafice the rest……..my choice, my car at the end of lease this in my eyes makes the purchase private. The diatribe that has been going on here all day about fleet v private sale is rubbish, a sale is a sale is a sale i should know i am a sales manager as far as i concerned when our company makes a sale who cares what demographic bought it… it still counts fo market share move on please….by the way we sell earthmoving equipment not cars!

  • Alex

    Well it’s only because it’s Australian isn’t it? It’s not the worst car in the world by any means but there are so many other cars for the same or less money that deserve to be sold in higher numbers than the Commodore. Even the Falcon. If Holden bring the Insignia along with a diesel and a nice automatic for about the same money as a Mondeo and the Commodore still sells better, that will prove that the Commodore is not being bought because it’s a good car, but because it’s a default car. There are so many people that would never go past the lion badge and most of them would never go past the Commodore badge and if they did, it would be to a Statesman and they would probably spend they’re ownership of that car thinking “who needs a Mercedes, this is the best car in the world”. It’s a sad, sad person who thinks a Holden/HSV is the best car in the world and unfortunately, there are many who think that.

  • Gavin

    Guys, no one gives a shit what your anti-spam word is

  • MisterTwo

    Hi Realcars, my figures are based on sales of vehicles with the same overall kilometres. However you are right in a way because of the high number of Falcadores of the same age with over 100,000km on them will push down the values of vehicles with 50,000km. There are fewer Accords out there with high kms which helps the resale, but also the fact that it is a better car and doesn’t have the “image” of the Commodore (read into that what you will but I don’t think it’s a good image, personal opinion only). I can say this as I have driven a number of Commodores in my line of work and always found the Accord to be a much smoother car to drive and has a much higher quality feel.

    There is still an element of “default” in the purchase of Commodores, generally because the family all drive them/grandad always had Kingswoods etc.

  • jackie

    so what if fleet sales are included, someone makes the decision on what to buy! and that someone has to keep a whole other bunch of someones happy! happy drivers = happy workers, besides, how many people shell out their own “hard earned” (lease agreements, ra ra ra) personal loans etc.

  • Bret

    VZLumina Says:
    January 6th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
    Just the plastic panel under the steering column and a seat belt reminder light for passengers.
    AND
    Bucket Says:
    January 6th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
    Taken from ANCAP.com.au……

    Guys, It’s actually still more than all that. Theres other things like new burst proof locks. It’s actually quite an extensive list of detailed engineering modifications, that will be built into every new Commodore built from last Oct. But until the more complex wiring looms of the upper spec cars are modified for the seatbelt reminder only Omega gets the gong.

    Make no mistake, earlier VE’s are NOT structurally capable of achieving 5 stars.

  • Bret

    Falcodore Says:
    January 6th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
    “And Bret, Mazda3 does NOT do fleet sales.”

    UMM, YES THEY DO! Collegue had his delivered last week of November.

    BTW did you know that the December specials on SS utes was actually lower than fleet pricing? Not that you could actually get hold of one very easily. Quote “No sorry don’t have any manual SS utes, how about an SS-V? Only 6 grand more”.

  • max

    Bret is spot on. It cost a fair packet to get the VE over the line in terms of 5 stars, this was not a quick fix, but well done to holden for doing it. Some of you guys think they spent a couple of thousand in the safety upgrade, wrong!

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Alex] “Well it’s only because it’s Australian isn’t it? It’s not the worst car in the world by any means but there are so many other cars for the same or less money that deserve to be sold in higher numbers than the Commodore. Even the Falcon.”

    You’re probably right Alex there are a few ars on the market that you would expect to do better than they do.. be more popular than they are.

    However the copanies who sell them don’t advertise them as much; they don’t compet in some form o motorsport or more importantly they don’t market them properly.

    In relation to marketing they could take a lesson from Toyota who use smoke and mirrors to try and make the unsuspecting public or the uninformed customer that to make them think their products are better than they actually are – do anything to make a sale..

    As one of my mates in Advertising says if you can’t fascinate them with fact baffle em with b-s.. and its obviously working for Toyota particularly when you look at How popular the Corolla is [though most of em are rentals]

  • Frontman

    As I tried to write yesterday (however only the spam word came through). Of the 1 mil new vehicles sold in Australia last year, you will find 65>70% are fleet / company sales. That’s all brands, all types. Wether they call it a fleet discount or not, they all sell to that market. BMW will quite happily discount abatch of 7 series if Sheraton asked for a special price on 10 of them. (but they don’t have fleet sales)
    As someone above said, a sale is a sale.

  • Car-Enthusiast

    Who here has herd of the term, Fringe Benefit, Most large companies like Railcorp & Telstra give their Employees Fringe Benefits, and that means that their employees get to choose a new Car between every 2 to 3 years in a particulary price range. And most of these employees are to choose cars like Mazda 3, Toyota Corrolla, Honda Civic, Holden Astra and cars pretty similar to them.

    Now more that 70% of ute Sales are fleet (For tradies, Builders and Form Workers), do u know y, because all u need to have to purchase a car under fleet is a ABN, and instantly u save a few $$$ Thousand dollars. And those Utes are purchased by the builders, tradies etc Hard earned $$, not by some tax Benefit Telstra gets.

    Also Over 60% of Statesman & Caprice Sales are Fleet, to those Luxury Taxi’s and Chaufered Limousines, and obviously their owners have paid for their cars by their hard earned $$$.

    Fleet sales doesn’t mean that the cars were bought by some large company because that car was popular and therefore they shouldn’t count as sales towards the Car manufacturer, More than Half of Fleet sales are bought by Self Employed Blue Collar Workers, or business owners/ ABN Holders, which entitles them to pretty good discounts

  • Devil’s Advocate

    Quote “Australia’s driving future Holden.” Unquote (Realcars)

    You forgot Ford and Toyota Realcars. They are just as Australian as Holden. You may not like them, but they are just as important to our “local” industry. Then again, you blinkers may be on that tight that they are cutting off circulation to your brain!! ;-)

  • Devil’s Advocate

    On a side note, it is interesting that Australia’s favorite car has the least amount of Australian made content in it, in particular the V8. Not that there is anything wrong with that what so ever. What was that about “Australia’s driving future” Realcars??!!!

  • Andrew M

    Alex,
    it is totally correct for you to point out that the commodore is the highest seller, yet there a a few better options than it.
    same can be said for the other 2 vehicles that round out the top 3……..
    Corolla and Hilux.

    they sell both of them by the buckets, yet both are merely mid pack performers

    Car-Enthusist,
    is it true that the ABN is the deciding factor in whats termed a fleet sale???
    Well if thats true, my latest purchase is classed as a fleet sale. I used my ABN to get a discount, but i still chose the vehicle, and would have gotten the same sort of discount no matter who i bought from

  • Andrew M

    Devil,
    falcon and commodore are the only vehicles designed and manufactured in OZ for aussies.

    the origins make the falcon and commy more australian than the toyota offerings

  • Devil’s Advocate

    Sorry again, I missed one of wheelnut’s last posts!! Yes, Toyota may use smoke and mirrors to sell their cars, but IMHO Holden are just as bad, if not worse. Holden would have to be one of the best marketers of their product in this country. Who else could make people believe that the Barina/Epica/Viva etc that they are about to buy is designed, developed and made in Australia? Don’t laugh, because I have seen people who don’t know much about cars think that they are Australian made cars more often than not.

  • Duck

    Devil’s Advocate Says:
    January 7th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
    Quote “Australia’s driving future Holden.” Unquote (Realcars)

    You forgot Ford and Toyota Realcars. They are just as Australian as Holden. You may not like them, but they are just as important to our “local” industry. Then again, you blinkers may be on that tight that they are cutting off circulation to your brain!! ;-)

    Devil’s Advocate, I think Realcars was reffering to old Holden motto or saying. Remember the stickers on the rear of the older Commodore’s? The VL’s and VN’s for example? It said……….”Holden, Australia’s Driving Future”

    You should know?…………………………………….specially Wheelnut.

  • Devil’s Advocate

    I know that duck. How could someone forget those ads! I just wanted to make sure that people are aware that there is more to the Australian car industry than just Holden as that seemed to be the common thread.
    Although it is hard to keep up with Holden now and their ‘catch cries’. They keep changing them every year or two! I have never seen a car company do that so much/often. It is like they are trying to find an identity but can’t or use whatever sounds good at the time.

  • Duck

    Yeah you’ve got to be open minded when you talk/think/work in or about the Automotive field.

  • Duck

    “I just wanted to make sure that people are aware that there is more to the Australian car industry than just Holden as that seemed to be the common thread.”

    That sentence wouldn’t have been true or very true back in the 50′s and early 60′s though as there were Holden’s everywhere and a few imports but mainly all Holden’s, but today in a Modern era we have now have another “Australian” car brand called ‘Ford Australia’ and if you will ‘Toyota’. But I would not call Toyota “Australian”. As they do not design and make/engineer a car in Australia as much as Holden and Ford does today. And because Toyota was not founded and/or established in Australia. The same as Ford. That’s why people call ‘Holden’ still Australian. Even though it’s n owned by the very troubled indeed ‘GM’ (General Motors) for a while now Holden “WERE” both established and founded in Australia.

  • Bret

    Duck, even though technically Ford are more “Australian” than Holden in an automotive sence.

    Ford Australia (originally an offshoot of Ford of Canada) have been building cars in Australia for quite a bit longer than Holden.

    In fact I’m not actually sure Holden ever built a complete car on their own. Before GM bought them, they really only built bodies for other manufacture’s chassis. GM bought Holden so that they could have a dedicated Australian manufacturer of bodies for their chassis.

  • Wheelnut

    Bret you’re right before Holden were taken over by GM in he 1930s [some 80 years after they were established in Australia by James Alexander Holden] they simply built a range of American/European style car bodies which they fitted to GM chassis/platforms.

    However; in the first couple of years after Ford setting up in Australia [in 1925] they did the same thing as Holden and that is build replicas of other Fords from Europe and America – some of which were shipped to Australia in Complete Knocked Down Kit Form [like Ikea Furniture]

    It wasn’t until 1948 that Holden built what is known as Australias First Car – the FX..
    Whereas [I believe] the First Australian Car Ford Australia built was the Falcon back in 1962.

    Both of which were derived form American cars but with slight modifications etc to make them more suitable to Australia’s unique environment

    But as Duck says Holden is seen to be more Australian than Ford or Toyota because they were established here [from the ground up]

  • Duck

    Bret, Holden have built their own car completely on their own a couple of times now like Wheelnut said.

  • Duck

    Pppssssssttttt………..Wheelnut, could you answer my question at the “What’s your favourite car?” article please?

  • Bret

    Wheelnut & Duck, the fact remains that Ford has been manufacturing cars in Australia for longer then GM Holden.

    And that “Holden” never really made a complete car. The Holden brand never appeared on a complete locally made car until well after GM had taken ownership.

    The fact that an adelaide saddlery “Holdens” was around many years before GM built the first FX doesn’t really make any more Australian in automotive terms than Ford Australia.

    If Ford of Canada had called the Australian arm something else, not linked to the Ford name such as “Fred’s automobiles”, then Fred’s would most likely be considered more Australian than Holden.

    And one other interesting thing, the FX was only as a result of a government grant… somethings never really change.

  • Wheelnut

    brett – According to the book “Holden Heritage” Holden Motor Body Builders started builing Motor Car Bodies in 1917 thats 8 years before Ford arrived in Australia.
    They fitted the bodies to various GM chassis that were imported from the USA.

    It was as a result of Trade Restrictions imposed by the Australian Federal Government after WW1 which stated that 1 complete car can be imported for every 3 chassis. In an incentive to get the Australian Automotive Industry Started and hopefully build “Australias First Car” which Holden eventually did in 1948

    Actually forging pressing and building motor car bodies in Australia is alot more than what ford did for the First couple of years – that being putting cars together that were shipped to Australia in a Crate from Overseas in Completely Knocked Down Kit Form.. or building bodies to go on existing chassis that wee built overseas

  • MisterTwo

    James Alexander Holden was actually English.

  • Escort_Ghia

    wheelnut i dont know haw you can go saying that holden is more australian than ford becouse all they did up untill the ve is use opal chassis they just rebodyed everything austraias favorite car has only been australia since the VE lunched.

  • Bret

    MT,
    But I think you’ll find it was James son Edward who actually registered Holden’s Motor Body Builders in 1919.

    If an earlier post ever gets off “awaiting moderation” it has more detail.

    And BTW the first company that HMBB built bodies for?
    FORD AUSTRALIA!

  • Bret

    Escort,
    Maybe you’re too young to be making that statement.
    There is a whole buch of models FX to WB that have nothing to do with Opel. Holden did have a life before the Dunnydore.

  • Escort_Ghia

    bret to be honest i dont even know why i wrote that or what i was thinking gotta stop having so meany late nights

  • BK

    So every single month for 13 yrs commodore was number 1. I doubt that.

  • Duck

    ^^^^^^^At the end of every year for 13 years not every month BK!

  • Bret

    Duck, get what? Holden’s history?

    Holden never made their own car. The first complete car built to wear the Holden badge was by GM-H.

    And you’re right about the “end of each of the last 13 years”.
    Here’s an intersting, but useless fact: The last 3 Falcons to top the sales xF, eF, bF (month only). What chance the Fg is next?

  • Duck

    The same with ford oz. Bret!

  • Duck

    Yeah, exactly Bret “Month Only”! Who cares!

    The Commodore can retain sales for a longer period of time (every year not always every month!).

  • Duck

    ^^^^^^^^^^^Isn’t that what counts!? :)

  • Bret

    Duck,
    Not sure where you are going with the history bit, but I was just clarifying earlier incorrect claims that Holden ever produced anything pre-GM, and they didn’t. Every “Holden” has always been GM.

    Oh I agree totally on the annual sales being more important than individual months. The Monthly only winner was the BF, the rest were the last of several year blocks of full year sales tops.

    Duck, it’s swings and roundaouts.
    In fact Falcon has probably been the number one seller for more years than Commodore (being some 18yrs older nameplate).
    The Falcon was no 1 from 1980 – 1986 and (I think) 1992-1996. Not sure on the intermediate years, probably 50/50.

  • Wheelnut

    Yes the very first Holden the FX which is known as Australias first car did have a bit of help and influence from GM in America.. However; the very first Faclon ha a bit of influence form Ford USA

    Before that just as Holden built bodies which resembled cars from the USA which they fitted to the extra chassis which were imported as a result of Trade Restrictions imposed by the Federal Government after WW1. Ford Australia assembled cars most of which were imported in CKD form from Overseas.

    my point is that throughout their history both Ford and Holden have hasd some assistance or input from the USA

  • Wheelnut

    MistrTwo: you’re right James Alexander Holden was actually English – yet the Holden COmpany was established in Australia.. which is why its considered to be an Australian car manufacturing company
    In the Same way that Louis Chevrolet [the founder of Chev] was french but he established the Chevrolet COmpany in America.. which is why Chevy is considered to be an American car manufacturing company

    Yes; Holden is now owned by GM. An American Company which in itself doesnt actually manufacture any cars that wear a GM badge but just happens to own a number of car manufacturing companies including Chevrolet and Holden

    However; Speedo and Vegemite along with a number of other iconic Austrlaian products are also Foreign Owned but still referred to as Australian as that’s where they started.

  • Wheelnut

    Another couple of interesting but useless facts:

    The Cadillac Car Company was formed in 1905 from the remnants of the Henry Ford Company when Henry Ford departed [to start Ford]

    Whilst the Cadillac automobile was named after the 17th century French explorer Antoine Laumet de La Mothe, sieur de Cadillac, who founded Detroit in 1701.

    Apparently the first Caddie was based on one of Henry Ford’s designs

  • Bret

    Wheelnut, I’m not disputing any of the history, it’s just that Holden, as an automotive entity is no more Australian than Ford. Holden was 100% US owned when they produced their “first’ car in 1948.

    Up until 1931 they built many different bodies and fitted them to many different makes of chassis (inc. Ford).

    Ford likewise, from 1925, built bodies and fitted them to chassis’ (for the same reason Holden did). To suggest that Ford only assemble CKD kits in australia until 1960 is wrong. Ford Aus had a body design department in the 1920′s.
    Don’t forget that Ford Aus invented the UTE in 1034.

    Both are US owned companies, both have unly ever produced complete vehicles under that US ownership, and both have a history in Australia that all Australians should be proud of, because in the main it has always been Australians doing it all, despite foriegn ownership and, at times, management.

  • Wheelnut

    My Thoughts exactly – bret… it doesn’t really matter who stared building cars in Australia first what matters is that they’re building cars in Australia.
    I believe we not only as Australians but also car enthusiasts should be proud of that and do whatever we can to support them and try to keep them here.
    Because both Ford and Holden build two of the most reliable large RWD family sedans on the road today not to mention the best value for money – if they didn’t they wouldn’t be in business now would they?

    Sure they mightn’t be as technologiaclly advanced as some of the cars from overseas However it all relates to the size of the market and the number of countries that Ford and Holden export to.
    Compared to Europe and the USA Australia is a much smaller market and therefore it takes longer for Holden and Ford to recover the costs of R&D – that goes into a new car which is why the liffe cycle of a car in Oz is on average 5-8 years whereas in Europe its closer to 2-4 years.

  • Duck

    Bret, Ahhhhhhh……..Ford did not exist in 1034. No car companie did!

    I’m pretty sure! :)

    Of course James Alexander Holden was originally British!

    All the first aussies were from england!

  • Duck

    Where do you think we come from? The Pommies!

  • Flying High

    I think there would be a number of native australians who might take exception to that comment Duck…

  • Bret

    Duck, sorry for the typo. I thought most would realise that it should have been 1934 not 1034.

    And no, many Aussies don’t have pommie ancestors. Many 7th & 8th generation Australians ahve ancestors from different countries.

  • Duck

    Bret I could tell it was a typo! ;)

    Most but not all of us have a bit of British backround due to because of the convicts shipped here to Australia from England.

    Sorta like me! Ive got british, some scotish and some german in me! :)

    By the way this is how the ute was invetned! …………..

    “The ute was invented back in the early 1930s by a young Ford Australia designer named Lew Bandt in response to a letter from a local farmer requesting Ford build a vehicle he could use during the week to take his livestock to market, yet was weatherproof and comfortable enough for him to take his wife to church on Sunday. Bandt designed a close-coupled, all-steel two-door body with a bed out back on a 1933 Ford chassis. He called it a coupe-utility. Aussies, never ones for long-winded formality, quickly christened it the ute.”

    Website: http://www.motortrend.com

  • Bret

    Duck, glad you looked it up and found out some facts, wish some others (not on here) would do the same.

    For me there’s no convict blood. That’s the difference between a free-settled state like SA and you convicts in the east.